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[0:00] Davon Williams: And then from there, someone approached me and was like, yo, you should um you should start a band. And I was like, why? And they were like, could you work for Disney right now? You don't need the money. You can start a band like all the other performers here, and you could send that money to like occupy Hong Kong. So at the time I was like, that's cool, let's do it. Not realizing I'm like raising money to fight the Chinese government and could end up in Chinese jail.

[0:34] Joe Rosko: Hey, what's going on? Welcome to Built for the Stage Podcast. This is Joe Rosko, founder and host of Built for the Stage, Broadway's number one fitness platform. If you haven't tried out Built for the Stage yet, go to the website BuiltfortheStage.com and you can try out working with your own Broadway fitness coach via a fitness app. We also just dropped our Places Please performance line, sports bras, leggings, shorts, hoodies, yada yada. Check it out. BuiltfortheStage.com. Special thanks to our producing team, Broadway Podcast Network. You can check them out at BPN.fm. I am recording here in Queens, New York in a grungy, amazing gym. You might hear some barbells or music in the background, but just embrace it, love on it.

You know, it's a fitness podcast, right? Kinda. But uh, anyways, let's get on to our guests. As always, we have a very exciting guest for you. Got to meet uh him uh a few weeks back at the When the Lights Are Bright Again book premiere. Hopefully, that book launch is going well. Loved what I saw from it and all the performances that night. You can see this guest perform in just a few weeks. We're gonna be talking about it here. Let's bring him on. Welcome to the pod, Davon Williams.

[1:54] Davon Williams: Ew. Thanks, Joe. Thank you. Thank you. We're I need uh some like sound effects. Maybe I'll put some notes into the editors. Hey, can we get what do you think? Or maybe maybe what I just did suffices. Maybe that's good enough. Well, it's a workout podcast. So maybe like, oh yeah. And maybe like a dumbbell dropping. How about that? Um Davon Williams. Oh yeah. All right. I love it. I love it. Well, welcome to the pod. Um, where are you calling in from, Davon?

[2:31] Davon Williams: I am currently in the old studio for a really obscure show that I launched during the pandemic called The Receipts. Okay. Um, it was a it was a nice little blue wall. Uh, we used to have a red couch. All of that is out because our new office is in Times Square. So the podcast is growing. We're doing great. But um now when I walk into this extra room in my in my apartment, I go, well, what do I do with this now? What should it be now? But yeah, that's where I currently am.

[3:00] Joe Rosko: All right, tell us a little bit about that. That little project you had going on during uh the pandemic that has yielded itself to leaving and going to a spectacular new office. Tell us about it.

[3:11] Davon Williams: I started this really obscure podcast. Um, I was like, oh, you know what? I just want to like talk about racism in theater. And racism in theater led to us breaking news about the SAG-AFTRA AEA quarrels that were happening behind the scenes. It led to us doing breaking news about the whole Cats fiasco uh with the national tour and stuff like that. Karen Olivo, now KO getting involved, Eaton Espinosa, me connecting with Broadway for Racial Justice, us doing a whole town hall for AEA, and then leading to the passing of like the Black Theater Matters bill. So that small thing just when I tell you it was as if I was pulling a string out of a sweater and was like, wait, why does it keep going? Oh no, why is it thicker? Oh no, why is there blood on it? Like it just kept going. And now it's become its own beast and monster.

[4:01] Joe Rosko: If people were wanting to check more out about this, would they go to DavonWilliams.com?

[4:07] Davon Williams: No, you will go to TheReceiptsWithD.com. That's the letter D, TheReceiptsWithD.com. And if someone's like, give me an episode that encompasses everything about this show. You want the final, you want the season two finale. It's called The Cats Out of the Bag. And after that episode, you'll know everything we're about. But everyone listening, I'm gonna put that link in the description of this episode. So after you uh take a listen uh to us here chatting, uh, you can check out that link. So click on that um when we're all done with our interview today.

[4:41] Joe Rosko: Okay, so coming up real soon, December 19th. I already got my ticket, like I told you before we uh uh we started recording at Don't Tell Mama. Tell us about your concert coming up and uh who we can expect to see or what we can expect to experience, because I'm uh I'm super pumped about this.

[4:59] Davon Williams: Thanks, Joe. Um, I think it's needless to say, I have a very complicated relationship with New York. Uh, didn't know it would be so expensive. Uh, every time I've come to New York, I've had a very incredible memory, and this is the first time I'm living here. So uh 2019, my agent, yeah, early 2019, my agent's like, look, you're leaving Hong Kong. I know you want to go back to LA, but you you have the credits. Let's go for Broadway. And I'm like, oh, I don't, I don't really I don't know how I feel about New York. And he's like, What's the worst that could happen? Spoiler alert, Joe, a global pandemic. That's the worst thing that could possibly happen. So this idea of me being here for two years max and back in my home in LA and all that quickly disintegrated.

Um and I ended up doing this whole again, The Receipts podcast, becoming a delegate for the Actors' Equity Association, advising people through their businesses and all of the stuff and skill sets that I had that I was like, when would I ever use that? All of a sudden came into play. Like it was unreal. It was surreal. Um, so that ends up happening. Um, all of this goes through, and I kind of feel like we're out of the thick of it, but are we ever out of the thick of it? So um I was like, everyone needs to know what I just learned. Like from learning how to produce the the pitfalls, just what New York is to me. I really want to share this, and at least people can walk away going, one, I've learned a lot about this industry, two, I've learned more about like who this person is.

I think this is my coming out party of like, hey y'all, like I'm in New York officially, and now I get to be a full-time artist. And also all of the guests who are here, they're not random. These are all people I met along the way who have shaped the way I'm about to go about this business. So it's it's very much me being like, let me let me share this story of self.

[6:46] Joe Rosko: So well, share a little bit about self and your past self. Where did you um come up with all these experiences? What did you I don't know, study or or yeah, how do you how do you have all these extra tools in your tool belt uh besides just performing?

[7:04] Davon Williams: Oh, well, um, originally when I came out of school, um, I never really thought about being an actor. It was something I was like, oh, this is fun. But when I was six years old, I didn't know how to read. Um, my parents gave me hooked on phonics. That's the beautiful box with the letters on it that was really popular, except people still found a way to bully you for it. But uh nevertheless, I was like, yes, hooked on phonics, I'm in. Um, I did it, it did not work for me. A teaching artist showed up randomly. A teaching artist showed up to our school and changed the game for me as and taught me how to read. I started excelling and all the other things. And I was like, I want to do that for other people.

I I think that's the future. I think that's what theater is. It's a spiritual thing for me now. Uh so I went to school, I did that, graduated out of the University of the Arts. I started um ghostwriting for politicians, which was so random. That was like one of my first big jobs. Some who have gone on to run for president. Um, I ended up doing uh working for young playwrights, the Wilmo, Walnut Street Theater, Arden, all of them as teaching artists. Um, because I was a little bit of a nerd, I found out budgets, so I learned how to get paid what I was owed. Back then it was like 25 per hour. I left in my three-year career making 250 around that a class. So like an hour of 45 minutes because I learned how the budgets work.

And that's when I learned, like, oh wow, I I have a good sense for like theater and business. So after a while in my 20s, I was like, well, if I know that, I know how to make money on top of money. I don't have to work so hard because I wasn't really into like the fame monster and all that. It was like, if I can do this stuff in theater and walk away and still have my life, then I'm winning. I'm doing everything I'm supposed to do. So that's that's what I went for. Um, so when I moved to LA, it was more about getting a little bit more notoriety so I could start pitching my own curriculums at a higher rate, um, and just getting a little bit more, making it a little bit easier to like go through things.

So from there, I ended up doing three national commercials in three months of TV show, um, international stuff. Ended up going to Hong Kong where I started ghostwriting for the um Occupy Hong Kong movement of all of things. And then uh started ghostwriting for the Freddie Gray uh leaders uh when that was unfolding in my hometown of Baltimore.

[9:23] Davon Williams: And then from there, someone approached me and was like, yo, you should um you should start a band. And I was like, why? And they were like, 'cause you work for Disney right now. You don't need the money. You can start a band like all the other performers here, and you could send that money to like Occupy Hong Kong. So at the time I was like, that's cool, let's do it. Not realizing I'm like raising money to fight the Chinese government and could end up in Chinese jail. And they don't take your booty there. They take like your pride, they take your self-esteem, they break you. So it's it's a worse jail experience. It's not just your anus that's in danger. But like that, that was something I wasn't really thinking about till I was out of it.

But that that birthed Davon and the Spectacle. The idea of I want to start this band and figure out how to use my art to be more about social change as opposed to the greater glory of self, which there's nothing wrong with that. I just think you can get more mileage out of really like engaging your community. And now we're here.

[10:15] Joe Rosko: And now we're here. Thank you. That was oh, I can't I can't wait to that uh uh thing about being thrown into the Chinese jail, uh possibly. I'm gonna probably throw that into our cold lead in because that's gonna grab some people's attention for sure.

[10:32] Davon Williams: Yes, please do. Um, so okay, Davon and the Spectacle. Are you all gonna do do covers, your original stuff? What do we what can we expect from the concert that's coming up that you're performing in?

[10:45] Davon Williams: Now, this first one, no cover, I mean, uh, no originals. I'm not doing originals because my whole thing is like it the whole idea of this is if I had to put a name to it besides Davon and the Spectacle, it is uh Davon and the Spectacle dot dot dot a healing, and it's all about the idea of community. Every song has its place, uh, specifically. Um, for example, you just had Ellery Ward on. Uh Ellery's coming on. We're gonna do some Christmas songs. There's an internal joke there. But uh, we're also gonna be doing, I believe, Diamonds Together by Rihanna. We're gonna be doing uh Rihanna, the new queen of Barbados. Uh we're gonna be doing a salute to her. But there's things that I want people to really walk away with, and there's certain songs.

For example, The Impossible Dream. That's the first time I had ever come to New York. I had hang with my middle school, I wanted to see The Lion King. We ended up seeing Man of La Mancha, which is I have strong thoughts to this day, because I think The Lion King was just the easier choice.

[11:41] Davon Williams: But um, we end up doing um Man of La Mancha, and I'm sitting there completely bothered by the fact that we're sitting through this show and everything looks dirty and they're in some jail, and then out comes this unknown actor. He might be a little bit more relevant today, named Brian Stokes Mitchell, who sings the impossible dream. And I remember just being like, it's as if a wave flew up, crashed into me, pulled me into the water, and left me with an inch in my life. I will never forget how sparked I was and could not recover from that song. I was like, oh my god, this man, this man is singing to me. There is no one else here. So I want to bring people back to that moment because it's something that came back into play during the uh march on Broadway.

That was a huge march that took place um over the pandemic, um, which was in regards to theater. Uh, I think things that were being protested with Scott Rutin, trans rights, this uh rights for uh handy, capable performers. Um, and then the Black Theater Matters Bill, rights within our union and things of the like, all coming together. And I remember we were speaking, and I was like, this is the moment, pull it out. And I pulled out the impossible dream in the middle of my speech, just to be like, do you all get these words? And at that point, thankfully it resonated. So I want to bring back what the behind the scenes moment of that was for me and why that came into play.

[13:10] Joe Rosko: Tell us a little bit about Black HMU United and how this concert is tied in with it.

[13:16] Davon Williams: Never heard of them. No, I'm joking. Uh no, Black Hair and Makeup United is something that's really dear to me because a friend, a friend of mine, a new friend, uh, pandemic friend, uh, Woomy Fawara, uh, launched this, and we actually came up together through the union. Um, during the pandemic, we both ran uh for delegates. We both won. Uh, we ended up running together on not a slate, but just us being like, we're all BIPOC and we need more color, and we don't disagree. Um, we don't agree on anything fully. Vote for us. We don't agree on anything. So that that campaign won. Um, and she was talking about black hair and makeup and everything that was going on, and she was just getting put through the ringer.

And I invited her on to help me with the black theater matters bill. She helped me with section four of it, which was all about technology um and helping with digital cards and things of the like. And woof, that became a thing of its own. So uh from there, I checked in with Womie, and I was like, Whoomie, how's it going? She was like, Not well, not well. Uh, there is a black hair and makeup crisis. Uh, black women specifically are being left behind. Um, we made a video about it, just how common it is for someone to be like, hey, I went to do a show and my body was not safe. Uh, even myself. Um, I like to think of my hairline as the just do it logo for Nike, thanks to a couple of mishaps that have taken place.

So, my whole thing was like, this isn't it's being treated as if as if this is a systemic issue, and it's not. It can be solved like that. It you could literally take me and Woomie out of it. Someone with the money, specifically a producer who has benefited off of black shows, can come in, drop the money. We could start this registry, which allows us to vet anyone that wants to work on black hair and make sure that they're qualified, and this issue is gone like that. It is gone in a snap, it is a Thanos snap. It is a Thanos snap needed for our industry for anyone that isn't just like what is a Thanos? Um, Thanos is a incredible super villain who is incredibly complex from the Marvel universe, who believed that in solving a lot of the world's problems, he would the universe problems, he would have to make half the universe disappear so that resources are there. Um, that is not what I'm saying. I'm just saying the quickness in which he accomplished that is the same quickness in which we could solve this issue.

[15:39] Joe Rosko: Well, hopefully the Avengers don't come back to try to undo, you know, the problem that you solved, like uh happened to you.

[15:46] Davon Williams: Well, I'm actually spoiling it for a lot. Don't really are. If you haven't seen the movie yet, just forget you ever heard me say that. Never mind. Well, let's speak on that a little bit more. Like, what's the obvious that people don't know and should? And what are some of the less obvious things that people don't know and should? You know, uh I'd I'd love to hear more about either experience that you've had or just where we can go in the future to make this, you know, issue conclude.

[16:20] Davon Williams: Um, so yeah, so Thanos, that's that's what you want me to talk more about, right? That's that's what you're asking about. You want me to expand on this ideal? No joking. With the hair and makeup. Come on. Okay, just just double checking. Come on, we're navigating through this virtual screen here. Take it easy on me now. Take it easy on me. Wait until your uh your performance for us to be in person to to yank my chain, all right?

[16:47] Joe Rosko: Oh, I will do it from the stage, I promise you, Joe.

[16:51] Davon Williams: Well, I'm behind I don't want to get I don't want to get caught out in the whole of the show. Um yeah, but okay, so a good issue of this. Um I remember we were having an interview with one woman and she talked about how she had hair down to her um oh how do I make this fun? She had hair, like don't you know those um Adam and Eve uh pictures where like Eve is having her like breast covered by hair and stuff like that? That's how you would describe it. And and to have hair of that length for a black woman is not easy. Like again, uh uh black hair rises to the sun, it does not fall. So to get all of that and to get that kind of length and to compete against that kind of shrink is shrinkage is a feat.

And a lot of people, a lot of people have things about themselves that they're like, this is how I identify. For me, there's no getting around it. I am dark, dark, I am midnight dark. This is something I identify with because it's just something that's always played a factor. So for her, her hair was such an important thing to her. And she talks about how, like to this day, she did a show, it was being fried under the light. They were frying her hair, they wouldn't put in product to protect it. They were you, they just burned all of her hair up to the point where she had to shave it. Not only did she shave it, but she said, you know what? This is my last production. This is it. Like literally, that hair killed that destruction of her hair killed her joy for this art form.

She walked away, she no longer does it. Um, another example would be myself. I, if the wind blows, I get acne. And I always thought, do not put makeup on my face, I will break out. Please don't do this. It wasn't until I had my first black wig installer who said, Oh, have you ever thought about this makeup? And gave me the brand. Um, I used it, and I was like, oh my God, no breakouts. This was such an easy issue. And for uh, what is it? I've been playing around in this in this business for like a decade on and off. And like, it's crazy to think that my entire concept of what life would have to be about in the world of theater, was that oh, if I do makeup, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be such a problem.

So let me do this, let me get let me buy all these products, let me do it myself. Let me have all these additional stresses on top of trying to find this character, on top of figuring out what the environments are, doing research, because most of the time you don't get really a you don't get someone that does the research for you in a regional theater, you just don't always get a dramaturg. So all this stuff, and let me do you know what? Forget the makeup. I'm just gonna look dry and sweaty on stage, and it's just it's so many things that I had to do only to later learn from a specialist offhand that oh, life isn't over for you. They just they just didn't know how to treat your skin. They didn't know what they were doing.

Oh, you mean to tell me there's professionals in this business who don't know what they're doing, which was a concept to me, because I've been taught if someone went through school or someone did this and they call themselves a specialist, then they specialize in the thing they're doing.

[19:47] Joe Rosko: So yeah, I can attest to that as a trainer, you know, looking around the gym sometimes, uh, looking at other trainers. It's uh I usually go to the analogy of a pizza shop, you know. You go to one pizza shop and the pizza could be garbage. It doesn't mean that pizza's garbage, it just means that that particular pizza shop is garbage. And and you know, it's the same with like doctors. There are good doctors and there are not so good doctors. And from your stories and you know, obvious other stories that I've heard just in other vicinities of the business, there are more qualified and less qualified people that are out there, and hopefully we can figure this out to kind of filter through the ones that should actually be standing at the top with uh these responsibilities on their shoulders.

[20:37] Davon Williams: Listen, I know you gotta get out of here in just a in just a bit, but uh if you can leave some advice for our listeners that maybe want to produce their own work or want to just manage their career in a way that is fair and just and leading to uh places of positive fruition, what kind of advice could you give to someone out there listening right now?

[21:01] Davon Williams: I would say question everything, don't be afraid to really get into the weeds. For example, Joe, where do you see my more diversity? In the shows you're booked in, or uh at the CrossFit Gym in which you work.

[21:13] Joe Rosko: Um in Queens, the gym in which I work.

[21:17] Davon Williams: Yeah. Period. That was not a surprise. So one thing I would say is wherever you see a hole or you see a problem, there's always an opportunity. Don't always think that everything is lost. So some of us would hear Joe's answer and go, of course, theater sucks. And what I hear is theater has yet to evolve to the point to where it needs to be. And that lets me know that there's work that needs to be done. Don't be afraid to go into the fire. And I will say that as someone who just spent two years going through the theater fire. And I have my bruises, I have my wounds, and I'm coming out limping to let you know it's okay. And this idea of being blackballed, this idea of not getting opportunity and all that, it's a myth. It's a myth. Like, and that's a lot of what this show is about. The idea of hey, did you know that this is an option for you? Did you know that you can do this? Because you can love it.

[22:11] Joe Rosko: All right, thank you so much. Everyone, Davon Williams. Make sure you go uh check out his website, DavonWilliams.com and check him out. Davon and The Spectacle with a slew of guests, uh amazing performers on tap. Can't wait for that. Uh Sunday, December 19th. Don't tell mama. Uh, doors open at 9 p.m. I'll put the link in the description of this episode as well. Davon, thank you so much. It was a pleasure.

[22:37] Davon Williams: No, always thank you so much, Joe. I appreciate it. Seriously, I do.

[22:42] Joe Rosko: All right, everyone. I'll be there at the show. So please stop uh stop by, give a listen, say hi to me, and make sure you cheer real loud for Davon and all of his friends that'll be up there giving us the goods. Everyone, this is Joe Rosko on Built for the Stage. We will see you on the next one later.