This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:33] Ben Rimalower: Welcome to Ben Rimalower's Broken Records on Broadway World. I'm Ben Rimalower, and I'm here with my lovely co-host Daniel Nolen.

[0:40] Daniel Nolen: Hey y'all.

[0:41] Ben Rimalower: Today's guest is America's sweetheart Cole Escola, here to talk about Judy Garland's at Carnegie Hall. Cole Escola is probably best known for his role on the cult hit Hulu series Difficult People, or his current run as the neighbor lady on At Home with Amy Sedaris.

[0:55] Daniel Nolen: I first fell in love with him on the logo series Jeffrey and Cole Casserole and its YouTube predecessor, VGL Boys.

[1:01] Ben Rimalower: The best.

[1:03] Daniel Nolen: Who could forget Sweatin' Tassantheim? Cole is truly one of the funniest people on Twitter, and his subversive solo shows at Joe's Pub in New York and around the country are propelling him to a bigger level of stardom.

[1:15] Ben Rimalower: Speaking of bigger levels of stardom, Cole is going to chat with us about Judy Garland's at Carnegie Hall. The greatest night in show business history.

[1:23] Daniel Nolen: Everybody lies and says they were there.

[1:25] Ben Rimalower: Everybody except me because I'm too young. What has been your greatest night in show business history?

[1:32] Cole Escola: My greatest night in show business history.

[1:33] Ben Rimalower: Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. What has been your greatest night?

[1:37] Cole Escola: My name is the name. How would Dina Martina say greatest night?

[1:40] Ben Rimalower: Dreatest night.

[1:41] Cole Escola: In showbidnight. What has been your dreatest night in showbidden history?

[1:45] Ben Rimalower: Um, in as an audience.

[1:47] Cole Escola: No, she'd be like, she'll been to her story. Showbidna. Her series. And then she'd do her little I said I said.

[1:54] Ben Rimalower: Said.

[1:55] Cole Escola: Said Pizzazz. Um, well, that, of course, seeing Dina Martina. Every time she'll been to history. Several many times with Ratus Nights. Uh seeing Ellen Green in Little Shop at City Center.

[2:08] Daniel Nolen: Me too as well.

[2:09] Cole Escola: Pretty epic.

[2:10] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[2:11] Cole Escola: Seeing Barbara for the first time. Not that it was great, but it was just the first time I had seen her. So that was pretty thrilling for me.

[2:18] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. How do you think it was for her?

[2:21] Cole Escola: Not that great.

[2:25] Ben Rimalower: Well, you see, the thing about Barclays is in Brooklyn. But it's actually a very long walk from where the dressing rooms are to the stage, and there's no possibility of a golf cart. And it took them quite a long time to put up my private air-conditioned tunnel for my two.

[2:45] Cole Escola: Oh, oh, so my second grade teacher, Mrs. Oh my god, that's funny. Her son was uh in Les Mis on Broadway. And I think he was the Andreas understudy. That's Mrs. Cranford's son. Anyway, so uh Mrs. Cranford's son. Anyway.

[3:02] Daniel Nolen: Benson Mum. Les Mis went on tour and I saw it in Oklahoma City, and then I got to go backstage. And the cast party.

[3:08] Cole Escola: Oh.

[3:09] Daniel Nolen: As a third grader. He was the Andrew Ross understudy in Oklahoma City.

[3:14] Cole Escola: I think he was on Broadway and then he went on the tour. As the understudy.

[3:17] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[3:18] Cole Escola: And so when I saw him, he Where is he now?

[3:20] Daniel Nolen: I don't know.

[3:21] Cole Escola: I don't know. We should see if we can get him to come do a not a full guest. Give him a thought.

[3:23] Daniel Nolen: No, but just you know, maybe like a drive-by.

[3:26] Cole Escola: Right, right. Have we been talking about you for like a really long time? Is it just me?

[3:30] Daniel Nolen: The alert just went off on your phone.

[3:35] Cole Escola: Think about self. Um, did Les Mis get introduced to you, or did you discover it in your own?

[3:46] Daniel Nolen: I like how it's so hard for you to continue this. It's like so much effort.

[3:50] Cole Escola: So did Les Mis get introduced to you.

[3:55] Daniel Nolen: I can see the effort and the energy you're having to put forth to continue this line of questioning.

[4:01] Cole Escola: It's just so hard. We have to talk to the guests and the people in the studio.

[4:06] Daniel Nolen: The studio studio. I mean, when do I have time just for me?

[4:12] Cole Escola: Anyway, but that was a thrilling night for me in Showbiz history. That's one of my thrilling nights in Showbiz history.

[4:18] Daniel Nolen: That was my first graduation show.

[4:19] Cole Escola: I get that. You know, I was recently, well, to be honest, last night at um Broadway by the beach in Cherry Grove, Fire Island. Fabulous Ben Cameron's uh Monday night summer long uh Broadway sessions.

[4:27] Daniel Nolen: Broadway sessions.

[4:33] Cole Escola: Um and uh there was like a group uh at the end of the day. Uh we all got called up on stage, and I I mean it sounds like I'm bragging, but I really had the chance to play any part I wanted in it.

[4:45] Daniel Nolen: Well, no, he was definitely not gonna let me play Valjean.

[4:48] Cole Escola: And you were so gracious.

[4:49] Daniel Nolen: Or he was he was also probably not gonna let me play.

[4:53] Cole Escola: No, definitely not Valjean. But I definitely wanted you for a Ternardier.

[4:56] Daniel Nolen: I definitely had the chance. I don't know the words to Ternardier. I definitely could have had the part of Eponine. I'm not saying anyone would have been happy I did it, but it was mine for the plucking.

[5:06] Cole Escola: It's crazy, no one wanted Eponine, even Paige Davis.

[5:09] Daniel Nolen: Well, Paige was just she said she wanted to be Ternardier to be gracious, and then she felt that she had to stick with that. I respect that.

[5:15] Cole Escola: But Pixie also wanted to. But Eponine was all mine to take, and I and I didn't do it because I felt so like um people, you know, I didn't want to let everybody down because it's the best part in the song. You know, right.

[5:30] Daniel Nolen: And when I say everybody, I mean this chick right here.

[5:33] Cole Escola: Yes.

[5:34] Daniel Nolen: Yes. Because I, you know, I would I feel like I was like, oh, my daughter's up there is about to perform her big number. Those Kaho Shimada queens will come for you.

[5:43] Cole Escola: So yeah, and I was so I was looking so forward to your performance. I was gonna film it and post it to your fan.

[5:50] Daniel Nolen: And he unfollowed me.

[5:52] Cole Escola: And then the song starts. You don't sing at all, you just wave the flag, which I immediately was so proud of you because you're being so gracious to the other performers, and just you know, being ensemble.

[6:03] Daniel Nolen: Well, when they asked me, Ben, what part will you be playing? I definitely at that point could have just hijacked it.

[6:09] Cole Escola: Yeah. And what did I say?

[6:12] Daniel Nolen: I said ensemble.

[6:13] Cole Escola: Oh, right. Which they got. Thank you for thank you for not making me say it.

[6:17] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got a big laugh. Um, I also want to say though, much uh like Patti LuPone, I'm an ensemble actor.

[6:26] Cole Escola: I um studied four years of classical theater. Four years on the road with the acting company. And uh I'm lyric-driven. I wonder if are there any um performers who say they're music driven?

[6:41] Daniel Nolen: Isn't that kind of like Linda Eder?

[6:43] Cole Escola: Isn't that gauge? Maureen McGovern.

[6:45] Daniel Nolen: That's but see, this is the problem that it's gauche. If it was not gauche, more people would admit to it, and then words would have a meaning.

[6:52] Cole Escola: And by the way, sometimes you want music driven, like Linda Eder is not right for everything, but when she's right, whatever she's doing, I'm happy about it.

[7:00] Daniel Nolen: Right, what she's doing. You know, I don't want her to come in and be like, I've been studying this um, you know, Michael John the Q sub tune. Actually, I would really love for Lynn Eder to do, you know, Michael John My Way. Anyone out there in the dark.

[7:18] Ben Rimalower: Broken wreck, broken wreck. Well, we just could not be more over the moon excited to have Cole Escola.

[7:29] Daniel Nolen: America's sweetheart with the city.

[7:30] Cole Escola: America's sweetheart.

[7:31] Ben Rimalower: Thank you. You know, people think Doris Day was the girl next door.

[7:36] Daniel Nolen: But she lived across the street.

[7:37] Cole Escola: She lived across the street. Now she doesn't anywhere.

[7:41] Daniel Nolen: No, she's dead.

[7:42] Cole Escola: But um she um she always played career women, actually.

[7:45] Daniel Nolen: Yes, yes.

[7:47] Cole Escola: I wouldn't know.

[7:48] Daniel Nolen: Well.

[7:48] Cole Escola: Um before my time.

[7:50] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[7:51] Cole Escola: Um You love Doris Day movies?

[7:53] Daniel Nolen: Cole likes all things that are old.

[7:54] Cole Escola: You don't?

[7:55] Daniel Nolen: Not until recently. Now that she's dead, I have a soft spot for her.

[7:59] Cole Escola: Okay. But we're not here to no, we're here to talk about your choice, the most basic bitch album possible for this podcast.

[8:06] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[8:07] Cole Escola: Who would have ever thought Judy at Carnegie Hall? I mean, in your defense, everybody else was like, I know everyone's probably gonna say Judy at Carnegie Hall, not Cole.

[8:16] Daniel Nolen: No.

[8:16] Cole Escola: No. You just took the mantle. Also, in my defense, you know, I came up in Napster at times and LimeWire. So I didn't really experience full albums. It had to be a really special album for me to like get the whole album.

[8:31] Daniel Nolen: So um And this is when you got this is like one of the only ones I can think of that I know.

[8:36] Cole Escola: Did you purchase it?

[8:37] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[8:38] Cole Escola: I came out um so I'm gonna go. The same day you go in. It was maybe a few days later, but uh for some reason in my mind I thought if I buy this, people will know I'm gay.

[8:49] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[8:49] Cole Escola: It'll be a good one. So I have to come out.

[8:52] Daniel Nolen: It's so funny, but for real, did you think that?

[8:55] Cole Escola: Yes, no, I really thought like there were two things that I wanted to do. I wanted to rent Queer as Folk. Yeah at Hollywood Video. And then I wanted to buy Judy Garland's at Carnegie Hall. And I thought for some reason out of everything else I did in my life that was pretty gay.

[9:08] Daniel Nolen: I mean I remember going to like video like not video stores, um what do you call it? Record stores.

[9:14] Cole Escola: And um you know I'd be like excuse me where's the vocal section? You know and they'd be like does anyone ever say that you sound like Harvey Fierstein? You know and it would be like so traumatized.

[9:24] Daniel Nolen: But I mean is that the kind of thing you're talking about?

[9:24] Cole Escola: Yeah, yeah I would go to your Sam Goody's or whatever what have you and I would you know I would pretend to be lost in like the album section. Be like in the when you kid rock um where is there more kid rock over what guys and a doll? What we just look inspect what this oh wait no something over you know just pretend I'm not into guys.

[9:50] Daniel Nolen: Yeah don't play with dolls.

[9:51] Cole Escola: It's like going to look at underwear at Target.

[9:53] Daniel Nolen: Right like hoping there's a a picture of Faith Prince I can put on that off to um okay but so what like what was your duty were you already in your weird like T T CM like were you like a fan of Easter Parade before you got Carnegie Hall? Like what was the context?

[10:10] Cole Escola: Um no well uh you know I the same basic bitch backstory I was a I was introduced to Judy via Wizard of Oz but my takeaway from Wizard of Oz was actually Billy Burke.

[10:24] Daniel Nolen: Oh go on you know queering queering even that narrative the basic bitch narrative um but uh so no I wasn't I I think I'd seen Meet Me in St. Louis, but I oh I mean like how did you even know like Judy at Carnegie?

[10:47] Cole Escola: I don't know. I don't know because I feel like I who have like a gay, like Jewish family, I was still getting like the capital like greatest hits collection or something, you know.

[10:47] Daniel Nolen: I don't know.

[10:48] Cole Escola: I don't remember how it was just C Yeah on CD, two disc, you know.

[10:54] Daniel Nolen: And so like did you put it on expecting her to sound like the way she did at MGM?

[11:00] Cole Escola: I didn't have an expectation, really. Um how old were you?

[11:06] Daniel Nolen: Seventeen.

[11:07] Cole Escola: So you knew what an overture was?

[11:09] Daniel Nolen: I did know what an overture was, but that was the first time that it I mean that overture is just can we unpack the overture track one. Let's just get a little bit of a I listened to it walking on walking to the train this morning and I was like, never have I been so excited to be walking up Broadway and I like doing like cardio running on a track because every time the applause for the tune recognition recognition and also when she makes her entrance, the minute long applause at the very end of the overture.

[12:10] Cole Escola: And uh where or when it switches to somewhere over the rainbow, like it changes keys with that, what is that, a trumpet? Where it's like da day slow it down, duh.

[12:26] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[12:28] Cole Escola: Applause, applause. I mean, forget it. Forget about it. So um I I uh would uh go yeah uh I would play it in the bathroom.

[12:37] Daniel Nolen: Mm-hmm.

[12:38] Cole Escola: I don't know why.

[12:39] Ben Rimalower: Well, like on your headphones?

[12:40] Cole Escola: No, on a CD player. I lived with my cousin at the time who worked nights at a hospital. So I w I had the house to myself, I don't know why, or the apartment I should say.

[12:50] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[12:51] Cole Escola: Paint a proper picture. Um but um I just preferred to have like the shower on.

[12:57] Daniel Nolen: Well, were the acoustics better also in the bathroom?

[12:59] Cole Escola: I don't know. Maybe were you conscious of like neighbors hearing it or something?

[13:02] Ben Rimalower: No.

[13:03] Cole Escola: I just like it was I wanted full comfort.

[13:06] Daniel Nolen: You wanted full comfort. Were you in the shower, like no, I was I would lay on the floor, I would run the shower. Like a little spa, you know, like a spa, like a spa experience hot water, just like, you know.

[13:17] Ben Rimalower: What were you wearing?

[13:18] Cole Escola: I mean naked Ben.

[13:21] Ben Rimalower: It's not appropriate then. The point about Judy Garland's.

[13:23] Cole Escola: No, I don't think I was hot and steamy. I mean I don't think I was. I think I was like in my pajamas or whatever, maybe underwear. Um but uh yeah. And would you listen to it start to finish?

[13:34] Cole Escola: The first time I did listen to it start to finish. And what was your reaction? Do you remember that first moment you or that first setting where you heard it where you just like it?

[13:43] Cole Escola: Yeah, I was just like from from the instant like the from the overture. What are things now about the album that you realize you didn't get then?

[13:52] Cole Escola: Well, one thing is like in the CD that I had, uh some of the patter was cut.

[13:58] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[13:59] Cole Escola: Like the story about the reporter in London. For some reason, I don't remember that. Like and Judy Garland's i is not chubby, she's fat. The headline said uh Judy Garland's arrived in London, and she's not chubby, and she's not plump, she's fat.

[14:21] Cole Escola: She uh went on in her article and said, but she's jolly, she's jollier than I've ever seen her. And if you say anything funny to her, she throws her head back and her chins joggle happily.

[14:37] Daniel Nolen: I don't think that's on the one I have.

[14:39] Cole Escola: Well, so I isn't it?

[14:40] Daniel Nolen: Is it hall?

[14:42] Cole Escola: It wasn't on the original something. I probably have like some like scratchy CD that I uploaded to the city. Because this yeah, this is really probably the one that I had. When it was re-released, it was added back.

[14:53] Daniel Nolen: And then there was some.

[14:56] Cole Escola: Yeah, it is it is right on Spotify. Um yeah, yeah. That reporter story. Okay, so sorry, that what you what was missing for you about.

[15:04] Cole Escola: Oh, you just didn't have that at all. Just didn't have it at all. Which was my favorite part was the patter. Like that was my introduction to Patter. I'm getting goosebumps on the back of my neck thinking about the first time I heard concert.

[15:15] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[15:15] Cole Escola: And and what a first, yeah.

[15:17] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[15:17] Cole Escola: Yeah. What and what like what are your favorite pattern moments on it?

[15:24] Cole Escola: Um I well, I love Besides all of them. What I love about her is that she even her like even then her references were obscure. Like she was like referencing things that like from like 1901. She says these ladies' names, I'm like, who the fuck is that? Like Vivian Delegies.

[15:41] Daniel Nolen: I've never known who that is.

[15:43] Cole Escola: I haven't. Did nobody know then either?

[15:45] Daniel Nolen: Well, I'm assuming because like remember uh her Dick Cabot, I think it was Dick Cabot, or maybe it was Merv Griffin, where she talks about Happy Harry.

[15:45] Cole Escola: Yeah.

[15:45] Daniel Nolen: I think it was Merv Griffin. Where she talks about Happy Harry, who was like this vaudeville performer.

[15:57] Cole Escola: Well, she I think she did she probably feels the story a lot, but that's on the famous um not Dick Cabot, what's his name? The one that she was on three times.

[16:05] Cole Escola: Oh, Jack, that's what it was.

[16:07] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[16:07] Cole Escola: Yes. Three times.

[16:10] Daniel Nolen: Three times.

[16:12] Cole Escola: Each time less.

[16:12] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[16:12] Cole Escola: Yeah.

[16:12] Daniel Nolen: Marlena Dietrich story.

[16:14] Cole Escola: Yeah, but that's the cunty second appearance.

[16:16] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[16:17] Cole Escola: Yeah. That wasn't that cunty.

[16:19] Daniel Nolen: Well, the first one, she's just looks fabulous and beautiful in the black little mini dress, and she's just made a movie or a TV show, and she's got the happy Harry story, but it's all fresh, and she's you could tell they still want to fuck her and everything.

[16:33] Cole Escola: And the second one, she's like very she's like Who's they?

[16:37] Daniel Nolen: Like the men on the show or flirting with her or something?

[16:39] Cole Escola: Yeah, or the audience or him. Like it just feels like she feels fuckable. The second one, she seems like a like that is not appropriate. Campy diva, marginalized by like, you know, society, but still like sharp but angry.

[16:54] Daniel Nolen: Uh-huh.

[16:54] Cole Escola: And then the third one, she looks like she escaped from like the like like mental hospital, and she's like, her eyes are in the wrong sides.

[17:02] Daniel Nolen: Oh my god.

[17:04] Cole Escola: Like her hair is like great, like she hadn't washed it on the way out of the house. Somebody went like their hand lies in the back.

[17:11] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[17:11] Cole Escola: Yeah.

[17:12] Daniel Nolen: Oh.

[17:12] Cole Escola: Um. Sure. So okay, but right, right, yeah. Happy Harry, those vaudeville stories.

[17:18] Daniel Nolen: So the vaudeville stories.

[17:19] Cole Escola: Yeah, yeah. And and you can even tell by the reaction they get. Like, people laugh, but it's like, oh, grandma, tell us more about the old days.

[17:26] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[17:27] Cole Escola: Um, I never Do you think that is a part of what her thing was like that Judy didn't try to be hip?

[17:34] Daniel Nolen: Um or even contemporary, or current rather.

[17:38] Cole Escola: No, I think she was just f witty and funny. She's very and on, you know. Who was it? Was it was Lucy Alball?

[17:44] Daniel Nolen: Lucy Oball, yes.

[17:44] Cole Escola: I'm not funny. Judy Garland's's Judy Garland's's funny.

[17:47] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[17:47] Cole Escola: What somebody recently though was like talking about it and they were like who said this? They were like, I mean, she just sounds drunk or something about about Carnegie Hall.

[17:58] Daniel Nolen: What?

[17:59] Cole Escola: You know, and as a Judy fan, you're like How dare you? I can understand. Baltimore even the the bootleg. Have you heard that one?

[18:06] Daniel Nolen: Is that the one Baltimore from the same tour?

[18:10] Cole Escola: It's the one where she's like getting booed. You know, it's really sad.

[18:15] Daniel Nolen: I haven't heard that.

[18:15] Cole Escola: Yeah. I had that at one time and I think I deleted it.

[18:18] Daniel Nolen: Does she sound like she's a I didn't want to hear that?

[18:20] Cole Escola: What? Because normally when I hear stories like I mean, I've been reading all these like Judy biographies over the last like few months.

[18:26] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[18:26] Cole Escola: And like all the stories in the books about her having like really bad audience reactions from when she was like an hour and a half late or like couldn't sing or wouldn't sing or was argumentative.

[18:38] Daniel Nolen: I don't hear about them treating her that way just because like they're mean.

[18:42] Cole Escola: No, no, no. They weren't they clearly weren't just being mean. It was like she was wasted and it was hard to listen to.

[18:47] Daniel Nolen: Oh yeah, so that was not that to her.

[18:49] Cole Escola: No. Um I don't know how I got that.

[18:52] Daniel Nolen: Well, no, but it's like on this record it's the opposite, because it's like you hear them just like tearing their hair out, like screaming for her.

[18:58] Cole Escola: It's almost a little weird, especially at the end, because she's like, oh, d you know, they're all like wanting like another encore.

[19:03] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[19:04] Cole Escola: Just eating it up. Eating it up. But you can see why somebody would say who didn't know her and like wasn't part of the like, you know, cult, like that she sounded drunk.

[19:14] Daniel Nolen: I mean, she has that partly it's the old style.

[19:18] Cole Escola: That's just the way she sings, like where everything has an R in it.

[19:23] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[19:23] Cole Escola: Well and an N.

[19:24] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[19:25] Cole Escola: And it's all very, you know, well I Yeah. Well, uh what are you?

[19:29] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, you know.

[19:31] Cole Escola: We'll s sing them all.

[19:32] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[19:33] Cole Escola: Yeah, we'll stay. I mean I always took that kind of like as her trick for keeping it sounding like spontaneous.

[19:38] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, sh it does.

[19:39] Cole Escola: I mean, it's very Dean Martin.

[19:41] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[19:41] Cole Escola: Who also was a notorious drunk. I mean the Sinatra at the Sands record, half of the patter are jokes about what a lush Dean Hunt.

[19:51] Daniel Nolen: But wasn't that sort of put on a little bit too? Like wasn't that part of the senior was that he was yeah.

[19:57] Cole Escola: Yeah, but I mean that's a great shtick if you actually are an alcoholic.

[20:02] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[20:03] Cole Escola: Like it works. People think I'm a drunk, but if truth I am.

[20:09] Daniel Nolen: I mean, um wow. Uh okay, so what about songs? Like what what are your yeah, what are your faves?

[20:15] Cole Escola: Um well I love the the piano moments and act two.

[20:20] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[20:21] Cole Escola: Yeah. Those are my favorite.

[20:22] Daniel Nolen: You're nearer.

[20:23] Cole Escola: Yes. You're nearer, a foggy day, a foggy day. Love or all.

[20:26] Daniel Nolen: Love or all, yeah.

[20:27] Cole Escola: Oh.

[20:34] Cole Escola: I believe in doing what I can crying when I must laughing when I choose.

[20:59] Cole Escola: The three, the three.

[21:01] Daniel Nolen: The triumvirate.

[21:02] Cole Escola: And my favorite is of course. Now i if i if you're too bored, uh you could see something and and then everyone applaud you know, she's fishing for Yeah.

[21:12] Daniel Nolen: We have one more.

[21:13] Cole Escola: If if you're not too bored, listen, we can always get the box. I mean, I'm such a cum guzzler. I was always like couldn't even get past the um when you're smiling and uh almost like being in love.

[21:29] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[21:29] Cole Escola: It's just wanted to get back to the book. I I had to like listen to those twenty-five times before I could go past it.

[21:35] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[21:35] Cole Escola: Even though I know there's like San Francisco and Chicago. I just can't s get out of that, like that when she goes back into like the retard of when you're smiling after the little um like special material verse.

[21:52] Daniel Nolen: Keep us when we are and now I'm starting to think, you know, because she has ref she makes a joke about well, in the um what would you call that for San Francisco, the uh the end, the verse.

[21:52] Cole Escola: The verse.

[22:24] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[22:25] Cole Escola: Also special material. With the joke about Jeanette McDonald.

[22:28] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, McDonald, yeah.

[22:29] Cole Escola: That's so um even that was like a d a David a dated reference.

[22:33] Daniel Nolen: Right camp.

[22:34] Cole Escola: You know, like is that not the original lyric?

[22:37] Daniel Nolen: No.

[22:37] Cole Escola: No, I don't think that's that's Roger Eden's written for Judy.

[22:40] Daniel Nolen: Oh wow.

[22:40] Cole Escola: And also it's funny that's Janet McDonald. Well, because Jen McDonald sang that song. Because it's it seems like the kind of joke she would tell about Deanna Durbin.

[22:48] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[22:49] Cole Escola: I was just about to think about it. But it's a but Jeanette McDonald is the originator.

[22:52] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[22:52] Cole Escola: But then it must have been like I'm trying to think, like like Madonna now, like making a joke about Kylie Minogue.

[23:02] Daniel Nolen: I don't know, like who.

[23:04] Cole Escola: Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to think time. It would have to be someone that's a 30-year-old reference. A little bit before her time.

[23:09] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[23:11] Cole Escola: But also k simultaneous, but then who hasn't stayed with it? Like I can't think of any examples.

[23:19] Daniel Nolen: I mean, yeah, w as if Madonna made a joke about Cindy Lauper, maybe.

[23:24] Cole Escola: But like I mean, you it doesn't work with Madonna.

[23:24] Daniel Nolen: It doesn't work.

[23:27] Cole Escola: I mean, it's just so now everybody's so bitchy and cunty all the time.

[23:32] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[23:33] Cole Escola: It's it's hard to c to like from Cher making a joke about Edie Gourmet or something.

[23:38] Daniel Nolen: There you go.

[23:39] Cole Escola: You're like, what? Why?

[23:41] Daniel Nolen: Why?

[23:42] Cole Escola: It looked like Edie Gourmet up here. Like Woo, you know.

[23:45] Cole Escola: I mean, I would die if um. So, okay, uh what what about singing were you did you sing along with Judy Carnegie Hall?

[23:55] Daniel Nolen: No.

[23:56] Cole Escola: Did you lip sync along and of course, of course.

[23:58] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[23:59] Cole Escola: Yeah. Yeah. Like hard to sing. You know, it's hard to sing along. It's hard to lip sync to Judy.

[24:04] Daniel Nolen: It's also hard to lip sync to Barbara Cook.

[24:07] Cole Escola: Right. Because their phrasing is so intuitive. It's not really like rhythmic. You know, so it's you can't really stay on top of it.

[24:16] Daniel Nolen: Interesting.

[24:17] Cole Escola: I find. I I guess I'm just so amusical that that anything is hard to look at.

[24:22] Cole Escola: I'm only holding on to what I imagine their thought process is. Because I have zero idea where the song is going up. Um but uh so you never were like singing those songs. You'd like I mean, I remember my first time going to karaoke in San Francisco basically like that being like the prescription for the songs I would look up. And because some of those were standards, they would be in the system, but they wouldn't be that for example when you're smiling would not have the verse in the middle. So no desire to suddenly find out you've been deceived, right? Like which is the best part. The best part. Which is also the fact that demeanor and subpoena is a rhyme is so crazy. It's well it's that old Hollywood.

I mean, all of it it just feels so Judy. I mean, like if a husband on the TV you're too stout, like that was very But I felt like clearly someone I don't I never picked it apart, but it I definitely took it to mean that Sid left or Vincent Minelli or somebody told Judy she was fat and like You did? I think you're reading too much into it. No, I just it all felt very hurt like even the subpoena thing, like I feel like I I mean doing the show with Lou Amherst, all these jokes about her getting arrested. Yeah. And I feel like I feel like it's part of a tradition and I realize it now that like I thought the tradition began with Judy who was not arrested. But it all just felt so I felt like it was her poking fun at her scandal or something.

Well, right, you can hear that moment where she slaps her own stomach and everyone laughs. I did not catch that on my yeah, when she sings like if your husband bluntly tells you you're too stout and then the audience laughs. I had no idea. Oh wow. Can we roll the clip? Yeah, roll the tape. If your husband bluntly tells you you're too stout, don't you pout. Um amazing. Um okay, but not singing along, not even lip syncing. Did you share it with anyone else? Like friends or family? I remember there was this project in um high school in my drama class where we had to um bring something it was basically show and tell. Um like bring something in that was important to us and talk about it. And then we were to switch, like we were to take someone else's thing and retell their story like as then.

So some um this girl named Ashley had to talk about Judy Garland's at Carnegie Hall, actually. She's just like I remember thinking she did really well. Oh how did you how how what was the transition for you from when will I have the courage to buy this CD to like here it is, class, this is my just coming out. Yeah. Like and it was more like now that's out of the way. Like we can admit that I love Judy Garland's at Carnegie Hall. So you weren't embarrassed to be a Judy gay personality that you are. You were just embarrassed to be gay at all. Yes. Yeah. We have tissue. Um and uh and okay, so and then what what did it were you after you got that? Were you like I need Liza at Carnegie Hall or what? Well, then I was like from then on I was like, okay, I love live albums.

Yes. Like I own I don't want to hear any studio recordings. I want live, I want their voice to crack, you know. Uh what I love about Judy at Carnegie Hall is like the belting notes are all there, but like whenever she tries to pull it in a little bit, she cracks somewhere over the room. Yeah, yeah. So then um the next live album I got was from my high school boyfriend, Bernadette Peters at at um Carnegie Hall, Sondheim, etcetera. Oh. And then I was the rest is history. By the way, by the way. The definitive, some people. Yes, I agree. Yeah. Some people can drive and roam. Living life in a living room. That's perfect for some people of 105 Hadley Scott Acheroncast album. It is the definitive Some people.

My favorite some life is Liza Radio City. Yeah, but that's something else. That's something else. It is something else, but that is my favorite. That's only tangentially related to someone. Right, right. Yeah, but it's only 88 bucks. It's not like I'm asking for a second mortgage on this place. What are you getting so crazy? Why are you getting crazy? It's 88 lousy bucks. You what do you mean I ain't getting 88 cents out of you? Well, I'll get it. And I'll get my kids out. My favorite cast album track of some people is Bernadette's Carnegie Hall. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Um, and then I made the mistake of of Liza's back. Oh. That was my first album. That was a hard album. It's a hard place to come.

Yeah, that was my entrance to Liza Minnelli was Liza's back. Wait, before we dive into that moment in time. Um what what was it like for you exploring that Bernadette album coming from? I mean, were you already did you already have a Bernadette context? No, that was I had no contact with Bernadette. You hadn't watched Into the Woods. Nope. Nope. But you'd seen her like in Annie. I don't think that I had seen Annie at that point. I maybe saw like saw her in the Cinderella like, you know, that brandy witnessed you came into this. That's that's great. And but were you like did you were you like a Broadway nerd at well you didn't know Into the Woods. I didn't know anything broadly. So we were just like this bitch is acting like she is some big Broadway cheating and I'm taking it at face value.

Yeah I'm taking it at face value and I um yeah it was because I was so in love with this guy. But you knew she wasn't like a Judy Garland's. Sure. Yeah. I mean Judy's dead I don't know if you've heard but it's a pretty big deal in the community. Well I it's just in just four days it's yeah tell Taylor Swift. Wow Ben Claws are out around I honestly I'm my claws are so dull. I don't want to get you confused. Let's let's let's stick to Judy yeah so well Bernadette. And Bernadette okay so okay and nothing to say about Bernadette though. Well no no no that was that was the other album that I was maybe gonna talk about but then I thought if I'm gonna lean into the you know on the noseness I might as well yeah go for the um for the nose itself.

I mean I love that Bernadette album so much I mean you know I'll say publicly on record that that's my favorite some people a song from a musical that Patty Lupone won a Tony for I my favorite version is Bernadette's on that album. So I'm not being shady but uh no and I I love that album so much um I mean all the badly sung tracks they saved for disc two. Oh my gosh. No, no, no, no. I really love that album. But but did you did you notice then like the the the there's like the coiness to some of the the pattern in a way that Judy so was like light years uh beyond, you know. You know, the uh for me it was like a character. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It w it's just like uh the the dumb coinness, like the the the jokes that aren't even jokes, like although we both have religious names, huge laughter from the audience.

That's not a joke. Yeah, like that's not funny at all. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, it's a joke in that it's because she hasn't said Madonna, so it's that winking reveal. Yeah, but it's not a joke. I mean, I saw her in concert in Cerritos in I want to say 1992. Uh-huh. So pretty proud. It's like four years. But even if you see her now, it's the same. No, I know, but this but this was before that. Okay. But I just I knew that joke as something she does, you know, Cerritos Auto Square slash performing arts center. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That you know, we drove a hundred miles out of L. Yeah. But I um Vivian Delacieza jokes do not land in the But I love I I loved it. I love how she knows she knows what works for her.

You know? Um, and then uh okay, so by the that was several years later, Liza's back. I mean, at the least very least I know because I know when it came out was already 2003. So right. Well, I was this was like very young. I came out in 2004, I think. So you weren't even fresh on Liza's back. No, no, no, no. No. Uh, but I remember Liza promoting Liza's back on Rosie O'Donnell. Or no, I think she did Minelli on Minelli. Yeah, promotion that's right. Rosie was over already. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So why did you buy Liza's back? Because I thought I was like, I love my thing is live concert recording. I mean Liza has more of those than she's like. I know, I know, but I saw like, you know, I probably grabbed the first one or the most like appealing one.

I th I thought I read Liza's back, oh, a comeback album. This will be even better. And now, of course, I do love it and I appreciate it. But at the time, I thought, like, why is this person allowed on stage? Allowed to sing. I mean, it's so funny to imagine you in that position because like I feel like so I have so much baggage with Liza. Like how could I I can't imagine what it is to listen to Liza's back with no other information and just be like going in cold, yeah. Yeah. I can't imagine that. Well did you know you knew she was Judy Garbo? Yeah, the only that was the only information I had, and so to me it was like, oh, this this lady is like riding her mother's coattails and has no talent.

Oh wow. But then my boyfriend bought me um Judy and Liza Live at the Laugh and Plady. Oh, what a mess. Our friend Ken calls it Judy and Liza Live. Live at the Lincoln Play. I think he stole that joke from my aunt Arlene. Oh my god. Um, he's calling. We have have him on the line. Uh but then I was like, okay, I get it. Even though then she can't sing, she hasn't quite found her voice. She's like, Yes, she has all the muscle and none of the brain. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Um is that the is that's is that the one that Liza talks about on Larry King? Yeah. Yeah. Her mom in the wings. Yeah. Watching her. Yeah, baby. Yeah, baby. Yeah, baby. Yeah. Yeah. Woo. Yeah. So how does this all like become part of like the Cole Escola like machine?

Like I mean, you were all at this you knew you wanted to be an actor for what? No, I didn't know I wanted to be an actor until until this afternoon. This afternoon. I decided. Congratulations. Um no, not until way later for a reasons that have nothing to do with Judy Eliza. And did more, I guess in a roundabout way they did it come back. I mean, eventually you started doing solo performance and singing and stuff. So did did these things like come back into that? Um what in that my favorite things to do are like uh inspired by concert pattern and um and interviews. Concert pattern and interviews. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, stories about people that no one cares about and you know, long-winded dropping references.

Reference and I mean one of the things I've seen you do that is well, one of the many things I've seen you do that's so funny, but that's it seems so directly in this lineage is that um I forgot her name now, but that's Maven Crawford. Right, right, right. Cabaret legend, right? Yeah. Yeah. Who keeps introducing a song and never gets to the song. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny.

[36:30] Cole Escola: Um, that's my favorite thing. Or like my Instagram stories where I tell like, you know, that are like ten parts. Like old Hollywood. Yeah, yeah, part one of six thousand part seventeen of you know. I mean, those always remind me of like more like Ann Miller interviewed.

[36:47] Ben Rimalower: Oh, absolutely. Um, which she does a great one about Judy too.

[36:51] Cole Escola: Oh, that's a weird one where she's talking about like she insists that the ghost of Judy Garland's was on stage with her babies.

[36:59] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. No. Come on.

[37:03] Cole Escola: I was dancing, I never danced so hard in my life, and one of my earrings flew off of my ear, and I glue them on my earrings. I know how to put earrings. The drag queen. And I went to pick it up, and I saw it was written on a back of a piece of scenery. The initials J U D. I went backstage. I said, Mickey, that wasn't me tonight. That was Judy. He says, and I know. Judy. Because he knew how to deal with Ann Miller.

[37:29] Ben Rimalower: The answer is yes. The answer is yes. Like anytime she does it. I would listen to you do an Anne Miller impression all day long.

[37:34] Cole Escola: Absolutely. But I just want Anne Miller to know that if anyone starts a story with I have a Judy Garland's story, I'm so excited. And then when the So her ghost was with me on stage is the one way to kill my Yeah.

[37:47] Ben Rimalower: It's not even a good show. Although Mickey Rooney, I suppose, you know, sure has some kind of connection.

[37:53] Cole Escola: Um, you have said to me before, um, that you that I'm gay. That you're gay, but that you don't like to sing just as yourself.

[38:03] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[38:04] Cole Escola: Um, and yet I know that these kinds of albums are such an important thing to you. So what is that? Do you just respect so much what they're doing that you don't know you're you don't feel you can do that, or what is that about?

[38:19] Cole Escola: I don't know, I just don't like singing.

[38:22] Ben Rimalower: But you like singing as a character.

[38:24] Cole Escola: Sometimes. I mean, even Maven Crawford doesn't really sing. Uh you know, it's very barbarous. Yeah. I don't like to sing. I don't like to sing. I I I don't I don't get it.

[38:35] Ben Rimalower: Um when you say you don't like singing, you mean like the pressure of like having to do that as part of like a performance.

[38:43] Cole Escola: I guess it feels like um there's no it it always feels like a cage. Like you have to sing those notes. You have to sing that rhythm. Like yeah, there's there's room for interpretation and I guess some people like those um like to figure out like an emotional uh like motivation for within those constraints. Within those constraints, but I don't care about that.

[39:13] Ben Rimalower: But you like to hear other people do it.

[39:15] Cole Escola: Yeah, sure. Love it. Yeah. Marilyn May, sure. Sign me up. Hello. But you don't watch them thinking they're in this cage.

[39:23] Ben Rimalower: No, not unless they're bad, you know.

[39:25] Cole Escola: Right. At it. Which a lot of people are.

[39:27] Ben Rimalower: A lot of people are. That's for damn.

[39:28] Cole Escola: And you just watch them just like disappear and they're dead behind the eyes and they just sound pretty, but it's not interesting.

[39:34] Ben Rimalower: Right. Right, yeah.

[39:36] Cole Escola: Or they're not feeling it, you know.

[39:38] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Or some people um don't sound pretty and aren't interesting.

[39:42] Cole Escola: Yeah. There's so much talk about all the pretty sounding boring people. I don't think we talk enough about the others.

[39:48] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Um so do you I mean, is that do you have like an inkling to like keep trying that or you're just like too old now that you just don't I just don't I don't care.

[39:59] Cole Escola: I don't think so. Yeah. Um I like uh my favorite thing is when people ruin a song. That's fun for me to do.

[40:05] Ben Rimalower: Like what would that be like?

[40:08] Cole Escola: Just like the way Liza does.

[40:14] Ben Rimalower: Totally disrespectful to like something wonderful.

[40:17] Cole Escola: Yeah. Like just adding words and like pauses. Or some people.

[40:22] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, or like some people, like the pat like the patter that she adds and some of it, like told me eighty lousy bucks. You spent more than that down at the tracks. I seen you. Yeah. I'm not asking for a second mortgage.

[40:34] Cole Escola: Yeah. I mean that that's but that's that whole thing of like improvising, you know, that people think like I mean it's like a film actor thing. I feel like partly where Liza learned it was like, you know, and then she took it.

[40:45] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, to keep it real, yeah, yeah.

[40:47] Cole Escola: But I love it when people do that, and I I have fun doing that. But it's not, you know, I can't have a career on Broadway if I'm doing that.

[40:57] Ben Rimalower: But I mean you could certainly do more songs like in your shows where you do that.

[41:01] Cole Escola: Sure. Sure, but a whole uh, you know, whole 90 minutes and I mean what's that Dolores Gray thing where she's she sings Rose's turn and she and they have a truthful quarrel. That's what she said.

[41:11] Ben Rimalower: And and she says, she says, Mama.

[41:12] Cole Escola: Yeah. I mean, I really want I would love for you to do like capsule versions of musicals like Well, I did have an idea.

[41:16] Ben Rimalower: Well, never mind. Save it.

[41:16] Cole Escola: No, tell us.

[41:16] Cole Escola: I did have an idea to do a show, a cabaret show of um uh of songs that were cut from musicals or songs from musicals that never made it. But the songs of course don't exist. Like they would be original.

[41:35] Ben Rimalower: Oh, that's funny.

[41:39] Cole Escola: I like that, right? Like when Jackie Hoffman does her song from the Adams Family. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that, like trunk songs, you know. There's like fake but fake tongue songs. Yeah. And do it as like a wannabe cabaret star character.

[41:53] Ben Rimalower: That sounds amazing. I love that.

[41:54] Cole Escola: Yeah. So you know, listening to the Bernard. I'm working with Lisa Lambert on that as we speak.

[41:59] Ben Rimalower: Brilliant.

[42:00] Cole Escola: Yeah. Uh did you after you listen to Bernadette and Judy, like the live albums, did you then go and listen to like Into the Woods and No, I was only interested in live concerts then.

[42:11] Ben Rimalower: Interesting.

[42:11] Cole Escola: Again, patter. I just love that.

[42:15] Ben Rimalower: Mm-hmm.

[42:16] Cole Escola: I mean, it's funny. For me, those albums, I think it was a lot like listening to a musical. Because I mean, I used to like have my headphones, like I would get in bed and put on like a CD that I would listen to until I fell asleep. Or if I didn't fall asleep, then I'd listen to another one. Especially when I started like smoking weed in college and stuff. I was like really wanted to like take the journey, you know. And so I loved Judy at Carnegie Hall or Bernadette or Barbara Cook or Liza Carnegie Hall. Right. Because I would put them on and I was like sh fast in my seatbelt, like it was gonna have that experience, you know. And and the same thing could be listening to not every cast album, but shows like a Vita or Falsettos or whatever, or Le Miz, you know, where you get to take the story with you.

[43:02] Ben Rimalower: Um but that those didn't overlap for you.

[43:05] Cole Escola: No. No. No.

[43:07] Ben Rimalower: So then when you moved to New York, did you s immediately start going a lot to see a lot of live cabaret shows or concerts?

[43:13] Cole Escola: No. No. I didn't really start listening to things until I was friends with Ben. Um, and that was just Patty Lapone.

[43:18] Ben Rimalower: That was just Patty Lapone.

[43:22] Cole Escola: But then, you know, you know, you meet some of Ben's other friends and introduced to um Dorothy Louden, etcetera.

[43:29] Ben Rimalower: Sure. Sure.

[43:30] Cole Escola: Um But you do like to go I mean, you mentioned Marilyn May, I know you see that kind of stuff a lot.

[43:35] Cole Escola: Absolutely. I saw Bernadette and Hello Dolly three times.

[43:38] Ben Rimalower: Right. You know?

[43:39] Cole Escola: Okay. Well, I also saw Adonna and Betty and Same and Seen Betty.

[43:44] Ben Rimalower: So Bethesda.

[43:47] Cole Escola: Are you really? I'm trying to decide if I should see Betty one more time.

[43:52] Ben Rimalower: Let's let's discuss later.

[43:55] Cole Escola: Off my I'll go with I'll I'll wait, but she's doing it in Dallas. But I'm definitely gonna go see Carolee.

[44:00] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[44:01] Cole Escola: Um and I did love seeing them all. Um my first Broadway show was Kiss Me Kate.

[44:07] Ben Rimalower: With Marin.

[44:08] Cole Escola: Was Marin's final performance of Kiss Me Kate? So I was uh like 13. She comes out on stage, gets a standing ovation, of course, because it's her final performance, and I was just like, first of all, I went to see the show because uh like it was part of the trip. It was like a school trip, and so I was furious that we weren't seeing Beauty and the Beast. I'd never heard of Kiss Me Kate, right? Didn't know what Cole Board was. Except those name was Cole. Yeah, and I was like, that's annoying. And then you know, we were sitting like front row balcony, I had like my arms crossed. I was uh you know, the overture started. I was like, I don't care about these dumb old songs. Right. Then she makes that entrance in like the hat and sunglasses like a star entrance, gets a standing ovation. She looks fabulous. I'm like, okay. I'm sold. I'm sold.

[44:55] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. And then she was incredible.

[44:57] Cole Escola: Yeah. In I mean, my seeing having seen Kelly now, my fondness for my memory of Marin has grown.

[45:05] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[45:06] Cole Escola: Um it is a hard part.

[45:09] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[45:10] Cole Escola: Um we were talking about this on another yeah.

[45:13] Ben Rimalower: What's that?

[45:13] Cole Escola: It's so hard to find an interesting soprano.

[45:16] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, well, it's funny because they didn't used to, I feel like they would have um like Ken Mannerbaum talked about Patricia Morris in the original having like a trick belt voice. And I never really knew entirely what he meant, but um, but I feel like I mean you wouldn't have thought of it as like a Kelly O'Hara soprano part.

[45:34] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[45:34] Cole Escola: I mean, even Marin is more of a meteor. She was just so funny. She was so funny. And I um, you know, you're not uh used to uh I I shouldn't say it's hard to find a fun sorry, sorry. Um an interesting, what did I say? A funny one? A good soprano.

[45:51] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[45:51] Cole Escola: Um no, you said you said it's hard to be interesting as a spray.

[45:54] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[45:55] Cole Escola: Cause the roles are so boring.

[45:56] Ben Rimalower: But that's such a genuine.

[45:58] Cole Escola: Yeah, they're so ingenuity. But that character is so I I felt like it's never cast, even at the time, I mean, I love Marin Macy, but um, but I remember being frustrated. I mean, you know, partly because I wanted it to be Patty and they had talked about her for it.

[46:12] Ben Rimalower: Well, did you see Carolie do it?

[46:14] Cole Escola: Yeah, it was very similar to Marin. I mean, she is a belt, a true beltress. But it my problem with Maren wasn't really the the voice. Um it was um, and I believe she sang it lower than the original keys, Maren. Um, which are not that crazy high anyway. I mean, I don't um like I don't think like so in love goes above like an F or something, maybe even less than that. Um, but like it's like sorry.

[46:47] Ben Rimalower: No, but it's like but I I wanted it to be somebody, you know, I thought of it more as like uh um not Kathleen Turner, but like you know Oh, right, right, taming of the shoe.

[46:57] Cole Escola: You were thinking of that.

[46:58] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, exactly.

[46:59] Cole Escola: Yeah, sure. You know, and I and I think um I mean it's the same thing with like on the 20th century, I guess in a way that like it's this like haughty diva personality, but with these like soprano vocal demands that those are not really to me, she pulled it off, but I was thirteen, what did I know?

[47:13] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I know. Well, look, now having seen this production, I I feel that way so much. You know, um, but whatever. I mean, I don't blame this production on on Kelly, but I don't excuse her either.

[47:25] Cole Escola: Wow. Alright, moving on. So do you listen to Judy Carnegie Hall still often?

[47:27] Ben Rimalower: Not really.

[47:27] Cole Escola: No?

[47:27] Ben Rimalower: No.

[47:27] Cole Escola: Do you listen to Judy?

[47:34] Ben Rimalower: Um, I haven't in a long time. I'm more interested in like finding new people that I like. You know.

[47:40] Cole Escola: Like my Barbara Cook phase, my Barbara Streisand phase. I used to hate her.

[47:44] Ben Rimalower: You to hate Barbara Streisand?

[47:46] Cole Escola: Yeah, yeah, until a few years ago.

[47:47] Ben Rimalower: You'll hate her again.

[47:48] Cole Escola: I do, I do, I do. I I yeah, yeah. Barbara Streisand. I go in and out.

[47:51] Ben Rimalower: Oh, yeah. Tell us.

[47:53] Cole Escola: Tell us about your Barbara Cook phase. Um, that was when I got sober.

[47:58] Cole Escola: And um it was uh the song was Ship in a Bottle from the London made me. They put me together with patience and loving and pieces of string caught on a creepy ocean and never to feel the waves watch me and hear the wind sing, and I'm wait for the heart of a little boy to call break the bottle and help me be free.

[48:54] Cole Escola: How can I know if I'm floating or sinking? If I don't take my chances on the wind under the sea. Because I, or actually the song that made me love her was "Stars." The Genesis from the PDS conference.

[49:19] Daniel Nolen: Yes, yes, yes. That's on YouTube.

[49:20] Cole Escola: And she recorded it on her as of today album, which is hard to find.

[49:24] Daniel Nolen: Is it?

[49:25] Cole Escola: Yeah, it's not anywhere. Um, but yeah, I used, uh, like I said, I don't really like sopranos. Um, usually their songs are pretty like just sweet and pretty, but not emotional.

[49:40] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[49:41] Cole Escola: You know. But I, was it you that I was like, when she sings in head voice, it sounds like chest voice or something like that?

[49:48] Daniel Nolen: Well, we talked about she makes her voice as exciting as chest voice.

[49:51] Cole Escola: Yeah. I mean she has that really thick mixed sound. I mean it's l so does Marin anyway. I don't know. I mean it's not a mix, it's just, it's just like effortless. Luscious, you know.

[50:02] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah.

[50:02] Cole Escola: Her voice has that lusciousness. It's got a juicy, thick middle part.

[50:06] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[50:07] Cole Escola: You know, I mean, in addition to whatever impressive high notes she had, like, there's a middle section. This is what you said was that her middle section sounds like some people's high belt.

[50:17] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[50:18] Cole Escola: You know, and if you think of her in the same universe as a Kara Lee or a Marin, it makes sense that there's a place in a Patti LuPone voice or a Judy Kuhn voice. I mean, it starts to be, you know, down the spectrum. There's like a lot of overlap.

[50:33] Daniel Nolen: Get out the chart sound. Pull down the slide, the slides. I know you a chance. Um, so did you know about, you said you listened to her a lot when you were getting sober. Did you know about her own Barbara's sobriety?

[50:44] Cole Escola: Not until, um, like I think I found that out pretty quick. You know, read the interviews. And then you know, sorry at a meeting.

[50:53] Daniel Nolen: Sorry to meet you. Did you ever see a meeting? Did you ever see her live?

[51:02] Cole Escola: Yeah, I saw her at, um, um, Feinstein's. Did we see her there together?

[51:06] Daniel Nolen: No, I went, uh, with someone else.

[51:10] Cole Escola: Speaking, it's funny, I was so wasted when I saw her at Feinstein's that it's like a way. I mean, I saw her live a couple of times, but at Feinstein's I was so, when I was really in like such a deep of fandom. Oh, I wasn't even close to my bottom yet, but I was wasted.

[51:26] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, and it's just, and I remember making a bad impression on Betty Buckley there.

[51:30] Cole Escola: Oh shit.

[51:31] Daniel Nolen: Because she was there, she was a big fan.

[51:33] Cole Escola: Of you or Barbara?

[51:35] Daniel Nolen: Oh, no, that was when Betty was at a release fandom of me. I, uh, she called me a little shit.

[51:39] Cole Escola: Okay.

[51:40] Daniel Nolen: Oh, what a good moment.

[51:41] Cole Escola: Yeah, I was honored that she remembered.

[51:43] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. It's a good, uh, blurb. She didn't say who. It's a good blurb for your, uh, memoir.

[51:47] Cole Escola: Thank you. Um, I felt that way when we saw Liza at the P Liza's at the palace. I was so wasted.

[51:55] Daniel Nolen: But with Liza, I think that served the experience.

[51:57] Cole Escola: Yeah, I know, but I would like to remember it. All I remember is Jubilee time.

[52:01] Daniel Nolen: Julie, Julie.

[52:03] Cole Escola: Because it was like so, it was so upsetting.

[52:07] Daniel Nolen: Okay, let's talk about that.

[52:08] Cole Escola: Not upsetting, but I loved that show. I mean, and I, and I was wasted and on God knows what those nights, but I remember it very well, and I remember going with you.

[52:15] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[52:15] Cole Escola: Um, but I loved that show, all those Kay Thompson songs with the Smothers Brothers or whatever the hell that was that she did with, with Jim Cruise and everybody.

[52:25] Daniel Nolen: I hated those numbers.

[52:26] Cole Escola: Oh, really?

[52:27] Daniel Nolen: And I hate them to this day.

[52:29] Cole Escola: And I, I love a violin.

[52:31] Daniel Nolen: I hate those songs. Why do I hate those? Is that my defect?

[52:35] Cole Escola: Yes.

[52:36] Daniel Nolen: That's yours. Did normal people think those are as good as my own best friend and the world goes round in the Liza concert?

[52:43] Cole Escola: No.

[52:43] Daniel Nolen: No, but Jubilee Time and I Love a Violin. And I think there's one called Clap Y'all Hands.

[52:49] Cole Escola: Yeah.

[52:49] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. Is that real?

[52:50] Cole Escola: Yeah. That's very rhythmic. And in I don't really hate them when Kay Thompson does them. Because to me, the elegance of seeing this like bony, like tall sophisticated.

[53:04] Daniel Nolen: You're a massaging. Say it.

[53:07] Cole Escola: I yes. But, um, I, you know, I, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't I, yeah, yeah.

[53:14] Daniel Nolen: So, but you love, you love those Liza numbers.

[53:16] Cole Escola: I don't remember them. I just heard them since then.

[53:19] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, sure, sure. I, but I want to get to the bottom of how you feel about those numbers.

[53:23] Cole Escola: I just think it's funny to hear Liza say.

[53:26] Daniel Nolen: No, me too. I'll sit around for hours doing that.

[53:29] Cole Escola: But I don't enjoy watching her do it.

[53:31] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. I don't think I've sat down and watched that concert.

[53:35] Cole Escola: Whereas I have watched the rest of that concert.

[53:38] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. I'm not gonna. Alright, guys, calm down. Okay. So Cole, what, um, what other, you know, you said you're still looking for new people. What people have you discovered recently?

[53:46] Cole Escola: Live albums or such?

[53:49] Daniel Nolen: Or live performance.

[53:51] Cole Escola: Yeah, exactly. I don't know. Nobody.

[53:55] Daniel Nolen: Well, Marilyn May, you said you love it.

[53:56] Cole Escola: Oh yeah, I love it. What other young kids besides Marilyn May? You've been discovering.

[54:00] Cole Escola: Um, I'll say it. I have Molly Pope.

[54:04] Daniel Nolen: Oh, sure, sure.

[54:05] Cole Escola: Like people that are alive, yeah. But I'm, I'm more interested in finding people that are dead that I didn't know of.

[54:11] Daniel Nolen: Right, right.

[54:12] Cole Escola: When they were looking at my Spotify right now. See if there's anything. Nope. Oh, Vera Lynn.

[54:21] Daniel Nolen: I mean, I know there's Stafford.

[54:24] Cole Escola: Joe Stafford. Wait, she's, um, uh, my favorite song. Um, You Belong to Me.

[54:29] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[54:29] Cole Escola: Yeah. Oh.

[54:31] Daniel Nolen: W so what's special about Joe Stafford?

[54:34] Cole Escola: Nothing. Like I don't think I would tell her voice from a lot of those people.

[54:39] Daniel Nolen: No, no, no. She was just like a pretty, you know, radio band singer.

[54:42] Cole Escola: Right. There's a lot of those good, there's a lot of good ones like that that are that I'm just not discovering any voice to Spotify.

[54:48] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[54:49] Cole Escola: Yeah. So what, what are you, what's your attraction to someone like that?

[54:52] Cole Escola: Oh, I just get, I listen to it as if like I remember the songs from during the war. You know, I like to listen to them and like, oh those were, oh when the men came home so happy to see them.

[55:08] Daniel Nolen: I mean, um, well, we should play the game.

[55:11] Cole Escola: What?

[55:11] Daniel Nolen: Uh, okay, yeah, let's play the game. Um, so we have a game we play, um, that's I think I've already told you about this game. It's based on Mary Fuck Kill.

[55:19] Cole Escola: Okay.

[55:19] Daniel Nolen: Dolly concert kill. Okay, what? So we give you three performers. Uh-huh. And you tell us who you want to see as I on Broadway. Uh-huh. Who you want to see in a peak career concert. Okay. And you, yeah, yeah. And then who you want to kill.

[55:24] Cole Escola: Who you want to kill.

[55:35] Daniel Nolen: So, um obvious, I mean, should we, we have I have to do Judy.

[55:38] Cole Escola: We have to do Judy.

[55:38] Daniel Nolen: And then I think Liza.

[55:40] Cole Escola: Liza and Barbara Cook.

[55:48] Cole Escola: Um Vera Lynch.

[55:50] Daniel Nolen: Okay.

[55:51] Cole Escola: No.

[55:51] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. Barbara Cook as Dolly.

[56:00] Cole Escola: So w and what age, what what year would you want to see Barbara Cook as Dolly?

[56:04] Cole Escola: Um, whatever the London concert was ninety one. Okay. Anywhere between, um, any of her, any time during her concert years. Starting from Barbara Cook at Carnegie Hall to when she stopped performing.

[56:18] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[56:18] Cole Escola: Yeah. Um But you prefer pre 2002.

[56:23] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I guess I would prefer, I would prefer, uh, here, I'll amend that. Anytime from Barbara Cook at Carnegie Hall to when Wally Harper died.

[56:32] Cole Escola: Gotcha. Yeah. Um Judy in concert.

[56:38] Daniel Nolen: Kill Liza.

[56:39] Cole Escola: Kill Liza.

[56:39] Daniel Nolen: Right, unfortunately. Here's why. I almost said Judy as Dolly because how fucking cool would that be to see Judy Garland's as Dolly Levi. But I would rather see Judy Garland's in a peak concert to see Garland performing.

[56:54] Cole Escola: Right.

[56:55] Daniel Nolen: You know?

[56:55] Cole Escola: Right. I've seen Liza. And I just, and I think Barbara Cook would r is is a better actress than she got credit for.

[57:04] Daniel Nolen: Mm-hmm.

[57:04] Cole Escola: So yeah. And do we all agree for the Judy concert it would just be Carnegie Hall?

[57:11] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, or Palladium.

[57:12] Cole Escola: Or not Palladium, Palace.

[57:14] Daniel Nolen: Judy Palace.

[57:15] Cole Escola: Um wait, w what do you mean?

[57:20] Daniel Nolen: Because she did it so many times.

[57:22] Cole Escola: Whichever one was after Valley of the Dolls. Like 67. Fucked up, like Lorna left sings Palace.

[57:29] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[57:33] Cole Escola: Yeah. Yeah. Like Judy like at the palace cause she needs the money. Her comeback dress, I called it.

[57:39] Daniel Nolen: That's a different palace dress.

[57:41] Cole Escola: Is it?

[57:41] Daniel Nolen: Yes, that's from the fifties.

[57:43] Cole Escola: Well. I don't know my Judy Palace then.

[57:46] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. That'll be the next, uh, that'll be the next, uh, Flossy Verd in Judy Palace.

[57:46] Cole Escola: Judy Palace.

[57:51] Daniel Nolen: Sound time Prince. Did you like Fossey Verden?

[57:55] Cole Escola: I haven't watched. I haven't heard now that they're all out, I'm gonna watch.

[57:57] Daniel Nolen: You guys need to watch it. You know.

[58:00] Cole Escola: I know.

[58:01] Daniel Nolen: So good. If no for no other reason to see, well, Michelle Williams is still great, but I'm obsessed with Andy McDowell's daughter as Ann as Anne Ranking.

[58:10] Cole Escola: Oh and who plays Liza?

[58:12] Daniel Nolen: It's not important.

[58:14] Cole Escola: It is to her.

[58:15] Daniel Nolen: No, but it's, it's like Laura Osnes is Shirley MacLaine and that girl is Liza, and somebody else plays another big, those people like are just cameos. Uh-huh. Like Anne Ranking is like a character.

[58:26] Cole Escola: Who plays Jessica Lang?

[58:31] Daniel Nolen: I don't know, no.

[58:35] Cole Escola: Okay. Cole, do you have anything you'd like to plug?

[58:38] Cole Escola: No.

[58:38] Daniel Nolen: No? Social media?

[58:40] Cole Escola: No.

[58:40] Daniel Nolen: No? I mean. Do you have anything you would like us to warn our listeners away from?

[58:46] Cole Escola: Um, anything on Broadway now.

[58:49] Daniel Nolen: I'm Kid O. I've never seen, I haven't seen anything on Broadway right now.

[58:53] Cole Escola: Nothing at all.

[58:55] Daniel Nolen: Have you seen Oklahoma?

[58:56] Cole Escola: Oh yeah, I saw that at St. Anne's.

[58:58] Daniel Nolen: Uh huh. Did you like early on?

[59:00] Cole Escola: You know, my seats were so terrible that I, I, it ruined the experience for me. But I still came away from it being like, wow, Ali Stroker.

[59:08] Daniel Nolen: Right, right.

[59:09] Cole Escola: Wow. And thank God for Mary Testa.

[59:12] Daniel Nolen: And thank God. The only one that I could hear. What's the dream role you'd like to see Mary Testa in?

[59:17] Cole Escola: Ooh. Oh god. Hmm.

[59:21] Daniel Nolen: Vera.

[59:28] Cole Escola: Mmm.

[59:29] Daniel Nolen: In Maine.

[59:30] Cole Escola: Well, then that begs the question. Who is Maine?

[59:33] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, right. Tune in next week when we're going to be.

[59:36] Cole Escola: Tune in next week when we dive deep.

[59:38] Daniel Nolen: Who's Mae?

[59:39] Cole Escola: Martha Plimpton? I don't know.

[59:41] Daniel Nolen: Hmm. We'll s we'll see.

[59:42] Cole Escola: Yeah.

[59:43] Daniel Nolen: Time will tell.

[59:44] Cole Escola: It will, hopefully.

[59:47] Daniel Nolen: Alright. Thank you.

[59:48] Cole Escola: Thanks for having me.

[59:52] Daniel Nolen: Bye.

[59:52] Cole Escola: Bye.

[59:55] Daniel Nolen: Thanks for listening to Ben Rimalower's Broken Records on Broadway World. For more episodes, visit Broadway World, iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever podcasts do be. Come back next week for Oscar Grammy and Tony winning songwriter Steven Schwartz coming in to chat about Judy Collins' Wildflowers. Other upcoming guests include Tony Award winner Santino Fontana, downtown goddess Bridget Everett, and playwright slash songwriter Michael R. Jackson. This episode was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City and was edited by me, Daniel Nolen. Special thanks to Emmy winning composer and lyricist Lance Horn for the broken records theme song. Follow us both, Ben Rimalower and Daniel Nolen on all y'all's socials. That's Ben Rimalower. B E N R I M A L O W E R. And that's Nolan with an E, not Nolan with an A. Because Nolan with an A is an ass.