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[0:01] Ben Rimalower: Broken records. The albums you wouldn't shut up about. Broken records. The music our guests can't live without like Judy, Barbara, Liza, Bette, Daddy, Audra, Bernadette. We broadcast this podcast with hopes that someday we might get Patti LuPone.

[0:38] Daniel Nolen: And I'm here with my lovely co-host, Daniel Nolen.

[0:45] Daniel Nolen: Hey y'all.

[0:54] Ben Rimalower: Um, hey y'all. It's so uh good to be here with uh y'all and uh my uh lovely Daniel.

[1:04] Daniel Nolen: And what?

[1:05] Ben Rimalower: I I don't know.

[1:06] Daniel Nolen: So you say me all, it'd be Daniel.

[1:09] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah. How are you?

[1:11] Daniel Nolen: I'm so glad.

[1:16] Ben Rimalower: Um I'm okay. I'm fine. I'm good. I'm well. I'm well. I'm grateful. Thank y'all.

[1:23] Daniel Nolen: Yes, yeah. You have to, you know, be grateful for the little things these days. Ronnie used to say that uh fine, you sound fine about like um whenever I would be like, I guess we'd be like in rehearsal for something when I was assistant on various shows and that he was directing, and I would I talk shit about a performer in our shows.

[1:45] Ben Rimalower: Now that I'm saying that, I'm like, I feel like I didn't do that, but there must have been some that we had like a running thing about. And like I would like get him like going a little bit, like down the negative road, and then he'd be like, she's great, she sings fine.

[2:00] Daniel Nolen: And I don't know why years later, when I would say that line back to him, thinking it was like a fond memory of the good old days, he would be like, Don't be mean. Don't be mean, don't she sings fine.

[2:12] Ben Rimalower: I I want us to uh I want us to uh somehow incorporate that into our uh daily banter.

[2:19] Daniel Nolen: Oh, yeah, she sings fine. She's great, she sings fine.

[2:23] Ben Rimalower: No, but it was like in one breath. He was like, She's great, she sings fine. Who's someone that you would say just sings fine?

[2:31] Daniel Nolen: Oh, lots of people. Um, I don't know, like uh it's not even an insult. It's like you know, who sings fine is like um Catherine Zeta-Jones, Katie Huffman.

[2:42] Ben Rimalower: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, honestly, frankly, Sutton Foster.

[2:50] Daniel Nolen: I do not dispute that. I mean, to me, this isn't really even what Lonnie meant. I I would say someone sings fine to mean that like they're they're solid. They're just not there's nothing about their voice that I am like hard for.

[3:05] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Yeah. I feel yeah. Unlike some people.

[3:10] Daniel Nolen: Yes. And if any listeners of ours are hard for Sutton, we support that.

[3:17] Ben Rimalower: Do you know who I am like weirdly hard for right now?

[3:20] Daniel Nolen: No, oh, I know, but tell me again.

[3:22] Ben Rimalower: No, you don't know. I haven't told you this.

[3:24] Daniel Nolen: Oh, not Elaine.

[3:25] Ben Rimalower: Well, that too, but that's not weird because I've been talking about it nonstop for like a month.

[3:29] Daniel Nolen: Right, right, all right. I'm like really weirdly into Tyne Daly's singing voice right now.

[3:35] Ben Rimalower: Really?

[3:36] Daniel Nolen: I don't even know if I could pick it out of a lineup. It's so she's like, she's like, half an egg roll, Mr. Girlstone.

[3:46] Ben Rimalower: I love, I love it with a bit of aw. And like uh, like I know there's she has talked and like people have talked about how she like wasn't in good voice on like the Gypsy cast recording and how she like sounded much better like most of the run than she does on the album.

[4:03] Daniel Nolen: But I like love her on the album. Like I feel like just vocally, Tyne Daly might be my favorite Mama Rose.

[4:15] Ben Rimalower: No, no, no. You are drunk. You would not you will not keep that up. You will not say that tomorrow.

[4:21] Daniel Nolen: Okay, let's just check in about this on the regular. This is a new segment. Do we like Tyne Daly's singing voice?

[4:27] Ben Rimalower: No, like I'm sure I'll always like her singing voice, but I want you to check in whether I will still stand behind this statement that vocally alone, vocally speaking, she is my favorite vocal performance as Mama Rose, judging by the vocals.

[4:42] Daniel Nolen: Even more than Patti?

[4:44] Ben Rimalower: Well, here's the deal with Patti is like it's a little unfair to compare Patti's vocal in Gypsy to anything because I feel like I am to Patti's vocal in Gypsy the way Rose is to June's career.

[5:03] Daniel Nolen: Gotcha.

[5:04] Ben Rimalower: Like, do you know what I mean?

[5:06] Daniel Nolen: Yes, it scans. And like, so it's just like very fraught. Like, no matter what gifts Patti gives me in her performance as Mama Rose vocally, I'm always like, oh, but like, we're we didn't we talk about a Nintendo?

[5:28] Daniel Nolen: I'm just like, I'm always gonna be just like nickel and diming her for like random like and you can't even please me. I'm like, no, I wanted you to go up at the end of some people. No, I wanted you to slide down like Bernadette. Like I just I I don't even know what the fuck I want, you know.

[5:45] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Well, that luckily we have so many to choose from. Tyne Daly as Mama Rose. I'm always just like, why the fuck do I even have this? Oh that's why I don't even know if I've ever listened to it all the way through.

[5:59] Daniel Nolen: She's definitely the Rose I know least.

[6:01] Ben Rimalower: I highly recommend it.

[6:03] Daniel Nolen: I'm gonna have to take the journey. I mean, I recently, I mean, I know the of course the Merman and the Patti, and I've heard the Bernadette. But I recently got the Angela one on vinyl, and I really love that one right now.

[6:16] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. I mean, the Angela and Tyne are kind of in a category together in a way, because I feel like Patti and Bernadette and Bette and Betty and Linda Lavin, like any of these like musical theater actresses who basically like grew up, or I don't know, Linda Lavin's older than she looks, like, you know, came of age, like um aware of Gypsy, and like you know, like they all like played like June or Louise, like when they were a kid, you know. Like they've always dreamed about this.

[6:49] Daniel Nolen: So they're like their rose is a little like their like prom dress or like their wedding day. And it's like they're in their own way a little bit, you know. I mean, the same way I would be, you know, they're just like they're like, This is how I'm gonna sing some people. I really want to.

[7:10] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah. Whereas like Tyne Daly's like, oh, you want me to come in here or okay. She's like, she don't know, you know. And like, she's like, she's like, I I thought I saw Gypsy, but it was it was actually Dear World.

[7:24] Daniel Nolen: Right. Right. And like there, you know, and it's kind of like, you know, and Merman was just like, I'm just gonna say whatever the fuck comes out of my mouth, and you people write it down.

[7:32] Ben Rimalower: You know, they were like, Exactly. That's Gypsy. But like, um, I mean, not that she improved, but you know what I mean? Like, it just like I feel like it Merman just kind of like defined it, you know.

[7:42] Daniel Nolen: But like, um, but Aaron.

[7:43] Ben Rimalower: Well, and she was the first, so there was no like nothing to go off of, really.

[7:47] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah. And and and and Angela, I think was very like, well, I'll approach it like a text. You know, yeah, stop with the text, dearie. You know, and like you know, and I mean Patti says she starts with the text too, which is true.

[8:01] Ben Rimalower: Uh but you've got to believe that there's some gay man like in skinny jeans in Patti's head, being like being like, I don't want to interrupt you or anything, but can I just say what Bernadette did here? Okay, I'll wait. I'll wait.

[8:14] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. There is that. That's like the yeah, the devil and the angel on Patti's shoulder. It's like the devil is the gay man in skinny jeans. But like, so is the angel.

[8:16] Ben Rimalower: The angel.

[8:27] Daniel Nolen: Well, speaking of uh yeah, speaking of Bette, who and I told you last night as we watched this together, this was one of the besides Bernadette, this was the only other QuaranStream we've ever watched together in the same room.

[8:42] Ben Rimalower: And you know, we were trying to save most of it for the pod.

[8:47] Daniel Nolen: I was so scared. When we first started watching, and we were like, we were like taking our notes, but we were like talking. I was like, this is a fucking mistake. This is not good.

[8:56] Ben Rimalower: I know, and I and I had to I had to like hold off. And I had such like you know, blue balls the whole time because I was like wanting to like comment on it, and I was like, nope nope, save it, Didi. Save it.

[9:06] Daniel Nolen: I had like a whole philosophy going in my head that I was like, you know, if I say something, then I'm not gonna write it down. And if Daniel thinks it was that funny or special, maybe he'll remember it and bring it up tomorrow. But like this is a lesson in me just like not like cherishing, you know, kill your darlings.

[9:25] Ben Rimalower: Yes. What does that mean?

[9:27] Daniel Nolen: That's like an expression they say kill your darlings that like when you're like writing, or I think it has to do originally with writing, but I guess it can apply to any kind of like art or creativity that like um don't uh don't like cherish, you know, be like, oh, I got this laugh doing this one bit two weeks ago, so I have to every single night slavishly make sure I get that, you know, like just be uh free and you know, serve the text in the moment. I don't know, I don't know if that's like the best definition, but yeah, I gotcha.

[9:59] Ben Rimalower: Um anyway, what was I saying? Well, we still haven't said that what we are QuaranStreaming today is Diva Las Vegas starring Miss Bette Midler, the divine Miss M herself.

[10:17] Daniel Nolen: But I wish it was Tyne Daly.

[10:19] Ben Rimalower: No, I'm just kidding.

[10:19] Daniel Nolen: No, you don't mean that.

[10:21] Ben Rimalower: I do not mean that not at all. So this is I mean, it's so perfect that it's her 1996 concert.

[10:28] Daniel Nolen: Yes, so perfect we're doing it right after First Wives Club because Bette is in peak form physically, vocally, her career is skyrocketing. Her hair, her clothes, her makeup, her Harlettes, her material, her marriage, her relationship with her daughter. It's all her relationship with carbs, everything.

[10:51] Ben Rimalower: Yes, yes, yes. Um, and I'd never seen this before. You know, I had seen, and I told you this last night. I've seen Bette at the Baths a thousand times. I've, you know, Live at Last, I know really well. But this kind of later Bette phase, and not even later, but like really peak Bette.

[11:08] Daniel Nolen: Um I didn't even say peak Bette. Like Peak Bette is like Bette is so multi-peaked. I guess I'm just thinking chronologically, like uh, you know, there's I think of like before this as being she was a little more edgy, like a little more of like a uh, you know, a rocker-ish.

[11:31] Ben Rimalower: And then after this, it's like she came back and did Hello Dolly, you know. I mean the edginess pretty much died after like like 82 or even earlier, really.

[11:41] Daniel Nolen: But you know, yeah. I mean, in this one, you know, her big hit songs are kind of these easy listening adult contemporary hits, like From a Distance.

[11:50] Ben Rimalower: A good reason to call this peak Bette, and maybe the reason that I wanted us to do this as opposed to one of her other concerts, is because you know, in one hand, you kind of want to get her as young as possible because you want to get her as close as possible to that edgy, yeah, you know, rock and roll and like you know, sort of counterculture comedian, whatever that she started as.

[12:10] Daniel Nolen: And you also, with singers generally speaking, you want them younger in the peak of their voice, you know.

[12:17] Ben Rimalower: And but with a diva, you also want them late enough in their career that they have already had all their big hit songs, you know.

[12:25] Daniel Nolen: Like very true, yeah.

[12:26] Ben Rimalower: So they have all of them to sing. Everybody loves Liza with a Z, but she doesn't have New York, New York and Liza with a Z, you know, or the World Goes Round. And so this is Bette she already has From a Distance, and she already has The Wind Beneath My Wings, not to mention the older stuff like The Rose and Do You Wanna Dance and you know, whatever, whatever, whatever.

[12:45] Daniel Nolen: Um I mean, the truth is really Bette didn't have any hit songs after this. And I was trying to think, all of her big films were around this time or before. Like, did she have any other big movies after that?

[12:59] Ben Rimalower: No, I mean that there was a couple of flops. Like Stephen Wives. Yeah, you know, I mean, and and even that was an ensemble thing. I mean, you know, uh, she really um she was certainly at the peak of her career here.

[13:13] Ben Rimalower: And you know, if anybody would like to make an argument that a different concert was her peak as a concert performer, I'm sure that would be a valid argument. But you can certainly make a valid argument for this because I certainly felt last night, and I knew because I this was the Bette Midler's concert that I watched religiously, you know, in college and like was obsessed with. However, I hadn't watched it in, you know, at least 20 years or something. And I went in knowing I was gonna love it, but I loved it even more.

[13:43] Daniel Nolen: I mean, yeah, I really loved it too. And I was so, even though I know Bette pretty well, at least her recordings and her movies, I was so surprised at how just she's such a workhorse, you know, she's so energetic up there. She's running around the stage. I mean, even the banter after some of these big numbers with a lot of choreography, she's out of breath, but somehow she like uses it to just complete the inner the picture and the energy of the moment. And I just was really impressed by her stamina.

[14:22] Ben Rimalower: I realize that I'm glad you said the thing about being out of breath. Um, and it has to do with her stamina too. That um Bette in a way is like the perfect marriage of Barbra and Liza.

[14:34] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[14:36] Ben Rimalower: Because like Barbra to me is someone that's all about being polished.

[14:41] Daniel Nolen: Mm-hmm.

[14:42] Ben Rimalower: And Bette is actually the most polished performer in the world.

[14:46] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, she's very polished.

[14:48] Ben Rimalower: But Bette is smart enough and wise enough, or at least listens to her collaborators in a way that Barbra doesn't, or I don't know what. You know, but Barbra's idea of polished is some stupid tacky dumb idea.

[15:02] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, which she thinks would be the right perfect show is actually moronic.

[15:10] Ben Rimalower: You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Bette knows that the perfect polished show is not one that hides her humanity.

[15:19] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it's one that just makes all the smartest best choices at displaying her humanity.

[15:26] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, you know, yeah. And like Liza, Bette knows all those showbiz secrets, all the ways to max get the furthest distance on the least amount of gas, you know, when the voice isn't gonna be there, how to phrase the line to get through, you know, she knows all those Liza tricks.

[15:45] Daniel Nolen: But the difference is that where Liza basically is like her mom gave her like, you know, $40 to like go out to like the like I don't know, to Disneyland or something and she blew it all like on cotton candy as soon as she got there and then the rest of the day had no money, you know.

[16:06] Ben Rimalower: Bette is somebody that absolutely knew exactly when she was gonna need every single dollar and made it last, you know. Better plan. So, you know, where Bette uses all those kind of like Liza showbiz tricks, she uses them in a more polished way that is just like, you know, it's never well and it's so economical, you know.

[16:25] Daniel Nolen: It's like the uh it's like um you know it's like in vocal performance they say, you know, how you have to learn how to use your breath, you know, and it's not about forcing it, it's not about uh feeling like you're working hard, it's just about the economy and how the economy and how your uh you know the amount of effort and breath you're putting out in in the streamlined fashion, you know, and over time. And Bette seems to really pace herself.

[16:56] Ben Rimalower: And it's, yeah, you know, it's not like Liza, who's you know, in one number, she's doing a sprint, you know, a 20-yard dash and jumping over a hurdle or whatever. It's like uh cross country or something. Bette is running the long race. She's doing the 5k. And um, and like you're saying, the tricks. The whole time I couldn't help but think about all those old Hollywood stars like Marilyn, like Jane Russell, who weren't dancers. You know, someone like Liza is a trained dancer, like an amazing dancer. But Bette, she gets by on these tricks with a lot of you know arm movements and like her funny little Bette walk and um her hand motions. I mean, but it's all so precise and choreographed, but it it's never dull or it never comes off as well. You know because her cheesy all her physical movement, just like her singing, is so authentic to her and so expressive.

[17:48] Daniel Nolen: I mean, yeah, the greatest thing about uh Bette's I mean, I don't know, I'm just so in love with her.

[17:55] Ben Rimalower: I it's so me too. That I mean, that walk is so I just love watching her move, you know, and really love watching her sing. Oh, and the such a pleasure for me about seeing her do a show, a whole show is that she when she gets to all of her songs that are her songs, you know, whether they're her number one, you know, major pop hits like From a Distance and The Rose or whatever, or whether they are just songs she's done on an album that might not, you know, be as famous, but as a fan, I know I know her version. I love watching how she's gonna sing it live because it's economical, but it's also artful.

[18:36] Daniel Nolen: And it's um it's really uh I love watching where she's gonna spend that gas, spend that breath in the song, you know, where where it's gonna, you know, when she sings The Wind Beneath My Wings, you know, I mean, that's a song that I've sung in karaoke. Why have I sung that in karaoke? I'll tell you why. Because like when I started going to karaoke, uh, you know, in San Francisco in the 90s, most places didn't have pages and pages of show tunes like they do nowadays. So songs that I knew all the words to were much more limited because they didn't have all those Broadway tracks. So I had to choose the very few pop songs that I actually knew all the words to. So that included Wind Beneath My Wings, right?

[19:21] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[19:21] Daniel Nolen: But that's a very vocally taxing song to sing. Now, maybe it's a good key for Bette as an alto and it doesn't go to like crazy high notes, you know. And then down the octave, it was like a more comfortable key for me who can't really sing, you know. But like, but still, it has those big vocal lines. And as like the amateur, like idiotic singer that I am, from the very first chorus, I'd be going, I, you know, just like giving it all my all, you know.

[19:51] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[19:51] Daniel Nolen: And um, but you watch Bette, and it's, you know, she it's so I don't want to say careful because that makes it sound like it's not um full of feeling, but it's it's very well considered. And she knows where it's, you know, you know, someone like Liza, you know, or even like a Patti or a Bernadette or whoever, you know, they'll spend their breath in the sense of you obviously can't do that for the entire song. So you've just got to like build the number, which makes it more exciting anyway, to start smaller and gradually get bigger, you know. But with Bette, it's like she'll really make choices where you know, yeah, there they'll just be lines that are mostly breffy, you know, or she'll use a lot of like the background vocals, you know.

[20:37] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I mean it's almost I'm trying to think of how to compare it to like a paint, a painting or like a style of painting. It's like Bette is so um uh I don't know, it's it's so nuanced, and there's so many different shades, you know. It's um, I don't know, it's not like uh Liza's like a Jackson Pollock, like splatter painting, you know, that's like uh I don't know, like a Monet or something, I uh uh or something that's more impressionistic. But um, yeah, I mean it's it's truly it's thrilling because you know, someone like Barbra. By the way, if we're talking about the divas as paintings, Liza is 100% a Warhol.

[21:19] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I mean, totally on those.

[21:22] Ben Rimalower: Um so I mean, if we're talking about someone like Barbra, I mean, Barbra's so at one time she had like the greatest voice ever, and so she really kind of depended on that for like these really unnecessary riffs on so much stuff, and um, you know, just trying to use that as like the the moneymaker, you know. But what does is that she really you're you're hanging on every word, you know.

[21:49] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[21:49] Ben Rimalower: And you're really going along with her as she's telling this tale, as she's singing this song. Whereas Barbra, it's I mean, you kind of said it last night, which maybe this is a good, you know, transition, but I loved seeing Bette last night on screen because you could see everything she was doing from her hands to her eyes to her, and you could of course hear her. But like Barbra, you know, I've only ever seen her at Staples Center, Barclays Center, Madison Square. It's you know, from the cheap seats far away. But you really just need to hear the voice, you know. You don't really, it's not about watching every move she makes because most of the time she's just sitting on that stool.

[22:30] Daniel Nolen: Right. Okay, well, let's get into it. So um, I just want to say from the very beginning, I could not be fucking happier with the entrance. I mean, it starts off there's like some kind of a full hour or something like well, first, first the the uh dancers come out and um uh I don't remember what the music was that led into I Look Good.

[22:50] Ben Rimalower: Was it oh because she starts singing Friends, yeah.

[22:52] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, she just sings like a little bit. So she is like flying, like, you know, halfway to the ceiling, hidden, you know, revealed behind this rose, singing a slow ballad, you know, intro of Friends.

[23:03] Ben Rimalower: Mm-hmm.

[23:04] Daniel Nolen: You know, and then it goes, ah bah, chagata, you know, and and she's lowered down, and she comes out, including right there, she gives you the little Bette waddle. She's immediately she gives you a water. It's part Mick Jagger, part like um Shelly Winters. It's like and it's almost like it's a little moonwalky, not in the fact that it moves backward, but it's just like the way she coordinates her legs, uh kind of one goes out and then the other one goes back, and they're kind of like, you know, back and forth. It's like a little bit moonwalkie.

[23:40] Ben Rimalower: It's moonwalking in the sense that like her body seems to glide in in the new location. And then with like the big wig and like the big smile, it's sometimes it's like from the neck up, she's a different person too.

[23:50] Ben Rimalower: It's almost like her legs are just choreography, but she's actually like on a like electronic device that's shifted the position.

[23:57] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, and the whole time I kept thinking it looks like when Bette walks across the stage and moves, it's like from the waist down, she's like a different person.

[24:14] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. Also, I just have to say right from the get go, I don't know if I'm mad at HBO or I'm mad at Bette Midler's. I don't know whose fault it is that this fucking concert that aired on HBO is not available professionally. We have to watch a fucking grainy ass daily motion link, or you can watch it on YouTube with like uh like, you know, some kind of, I don't know if it's Russian or some Cyrillic language, like subtitles. Like, and they're all scratchy and crappy, and you know, I don't what is the problem? Why is this not available for streaming or purchase or download, or what is the issue?

[24:53] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, that is that is very shocking.

[24:55] Daniel Nolen: I anyway, I love I love this opening number, I look good. Um I uh I love this whole I one of the things I realized watching her, and I think it's part of the reason that I love this in some ways more than her edgier 1970s material. Uh especially in terms of the more like stand-up comedy type stuff, as far as like what she's the stuff she says rather than sings, but it informs the singing, because for example, this song is very much in the thing, which is that I think in the 70s, it was a little more like she was like, I'm one of the cool kids on the street, and like I'm uh, you know, and she would refer to herself kind of as like a sexy lady with like big titties that obviously men in the audience want to fuck.

[25:40] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[25:41] Daniel Nolen: And she never was that to me. That was never how I saw her. I always saw her as an old Jewish lady, like my mother or my grandmother or something. So I never could really identify with her that much as like a cool kid, like talking to me, like with the hip commentary. But here it's a little more like it's me, your old friend, or like, you know, as Pixie would say, your cousin Bette Midler's, you know, and she's like, she's like, you've known me for 40 years, and here I am to check in with you because we haven't seen each other in a while. And so all this banter is sort of like, you know, even when she's doing this sort of almost hacky, kind of like very stand-up y material about like it's so 90s because it's so dated about like, you know, I don't know, what is it, like portable phones and like portable phones, the internet, yeah, all that stuff, you know.

[26:32] Daniel Nolen: And it, but it's but I I still enjoy it because it's like she's like, oh, the last time I did a televised concert was 1990, and this is 1996. So so much has changed, we have to catch up on guys, you know.

[26:46] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[26:47] Daniel Nolen: And like I really uh, I really appreciate that. And I and I the opening number just starts in that place. And it's I love this idea of I look good because she does. Because she is somebody that's been characterized somehow in her persona as like, you know, I don't know, fat or maybe not fat, but like not what you know, society deems is what a woman would look like to be attracted or something, you know.

[27:11] Ben Rimalower: And here she just looks so fierce and just so in her body and just so sexy and fluid, and just you know, the tights, the high heels.

[27:22] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, and just you know, I mean, you you how however she looked in the 70s, you know, or even in the 60s, she certainly has never moved any more acrobatically and athletically and just you know, fiercely than she does here. I mean, this is a she's at a maximum physical form, yeah.

[27:39] Ben Rimalower: Absolutely.

[27:45] Daniel Nolen: Um I remember feeling like so depressed about it because like I was like, Patti LuPone will never look or move this great.

[27:58] Ben Rimalower: And I think Patty, by the way, is way more beautiful than Bette Midler's.

[28:02] Daniel Nolen: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[28:03] Ben Rimalower: But like but just Bette's look. I mean, we make fun of the things she wears in the first half because it has this weird tail that hangs down.

[28:11] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it's so bizarre. It's like these, I don't know if it's like black stretchy material or black velvet or something, but it's like these like black, kind of like stretchy, thick black tights, and then in the same fabric, this like short sleeved, kind of like sexy, well fit like top that like drapes over her breasts and then kind of like hangs loosely around her midsection and then cuts off just below her kind of like ass level.

[28:36] Ben Rimalower: Except in the back, it like goes down like with this weird tail.

[28:41] Daniel Nolen: And yeah, it's I mean it's it's it almost looks like a like a tassel that you'd put on like um a curtain or something. I mean, it's like kind of the Carol Burnett gone with the wind uh curtain dress.

[28:52] Ben Rimalower: It's like uh they made it.

[28:53] Daniel Nolen: It's very subtle in this like black fabric or whatever, you know. It's almost it's like it's very much that 90s bullshit, like asymmetrical, like oh, you know, it throws the eye and creates a longer line or something, you know.

[29:07] Ben Rimalower: But it's a little whatever.

[29:08] Daniel Nolen: But most of the time you don't notice it. Most of it, you most of the time you just see her in this like chic form-fitting, flattering, elegant, yeah, but also like you know, and like sometimes like this 90s thing where they try to have it both ways to be sort of chic and elegant, but also a little bit athleisure-ish.

[29:28] Ben Rimalower: Sometimes the 90s idea of that doesn't gel, but this gels beautifully.

[29:34] Daniel Nolen: It's exactly what you want her to be in. Even with like the strappy, like high heeled, like platform sandals.

[29:40] Ben Rimalower: It's just, it's it's everything I want a diva concert, especially a Bette Midler's concert outfit to be.

[29:47] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it's minimal, it's classy, but it's also she can move in it.

[29:51] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, and but it's I really love it, love it, love it. Um is the next song, Miss Otis Regrets?

[29:59] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[30:00] Ben Rimalower: And um, I realized like it's kind of funny because that album was six years old.

[30:06] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[30:07] Ben Rimalower: And it was a successful album.

[30:08] Daniel Nolen: What uh what's it called?

[30:10] Ben Rimalower: Some People's Lives.

[30:11] Daniel Nolen: Some People's Lives. You know, and it's the album that had From a Distance.

[30:15] Ben Rimalower: Um, but uh, but Miss Otis Regrets is not, I don't necessarily think of that as one of her like standards.

[30:22] Daniel Nolen: No, I mean that's just a standard.

[30:25] Ben Rimalower: And she does stuff.

[30:27] Daniel Nolen: There's a couple other tracks, uh tracks, songs she does in this concert that are kind of like that, that are just like songs she happens to have sung on an album, but they're certainly not one of like her signature songs.

[30:38] Ben Rimalower: And I realized that's something else I love about Bette, is that like you feel like all her albums, like as an artist, as a singer, when she recorded those albums, she chose those songs because they really meant something to her.

[30:53] Daniel Nolen: And they still do. And whether they became a global game-changing number one pop hit like The Wind Beneath My Wings, or whether they're just an old standard she happened to cover on her album, they're a song that she loves, and that when she's putting together her concert almost a decade later, she might choose that song, as opposed to Barbra, who I feel like is just like in the game trying to make money, and she throws the pasta against the wall.

[31:23] Ben Rimalower: And if the song's not a hit, she divorces herself from it, and you'll never hear it again.

[31:27] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, absolutely.

[31:29] Ben Rimalower: Absolutely.

[31:30] Daniel Nolen: Um or or Patty, who's like, no, we did that song in that show. Now I don't ever want to see it again.

[31:36] Ben Rimalower: Totally.

[31:39] Daniel Nolen: Like, oh, well, if you want me to do like coulda wood or shoulda and Lady with the Torch and Rep, then you'll get all the songs.

[31:45] Ben Rimalower: But like that song, you know, it's like not, it's not so um it, you know, it's more contained within this sort of theatrical uh framework.

[31:56] Daniel Nolen: You know, whereas with that, I feel like it's really like she's she's the concert could draw from any place in her long career.

[32:04] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[32:06] Daniel Nolen: Well, and it's you know, no better example than the next song, which is as she says, Did I sing the ballad yet?

[32:12] Ben Rimalower: Uh Spring Can Really Hang You Up the Most.

[32:13] Daniel Nolen: I mean, but speaking of going back to her old hits, I love that she not only goes back to the old song hits, she goes back to her old punchline hits.

[32:23] Ben Rimalower: I mean, that's from Live at Last, right?

[32:25] Daniel Nolen: Did I she's in the middle of like a long, like funny like banter monologue, and she's like, Did I sing the ballad yet? Was it wonderful? Was it wonderful? And here she says that just like as a throwback to that.

[32:38] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, which I was like, I was like, is she recycling that?

[32:43] Daniel Nolen: Which I love. I think it was supposed to be like a comment on, like, you know, like a joke.

[32:47] Ben Rimalower: But this audience, I mean, it's it's a little bit like misguided because like you're playing like this enormous arena.

[32:54] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[32:55] Ben Rimalower: Like that's that's the kind of bit that works better in an intimate like venue packed with just like mega fans, you know.

[33:01] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[33:02] Ben Rimalower: I mean, obviously, when you're Barbara or Bette or Cher or somebody, like any venue can be packed with mega fans because the whole world are your mega fans.

[33:12] Daniel Nolen: But I think this level of like minutia might have been like an overreach.

[33:17] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, and in Vegas. I mean, it's yeah, it's not like she's doing this in, you know, lower Manhattan.

[33:23] Daniel Nolen: Exactly.

[33:23] Ben Rimalower: Exactly.

[33:24] Daniel Nolen: Um but this this next song, The Ballad, Spring Can Really Hang Up The Most. This I love, love, love this song so much.

[33:33] Ben Rimalower: Bette's was the first version I heard.

[33:34] Daniel Nolen: And truly, this song, I mean, Thighs in Whispers was really my true in with Bette, and that's what really made me a mega fan.

[33:43] Ben Rimalower: But Spring Can Really Hang Up the Most, that was the first uh song I heard of hers that really got me interested on the ground level.

[33:53] Daniel Nolen: And uh the orch, there's a whole orchestration behind it. It's uh again on Some People's Lives.

[33:59] Ben Rimalower: And the way she sings this song is just so beautiful.

[34:03] Daniel Nolen: I mean, her her voice has never sounded better than on this song, and she's so um like I don't know. It's just artful.

[34:12] Ben Rimalower: It's just that she's artful in a way that's but it's it works on both levels.

[34:18] Daniel Nolen: She is interpreting and telling you a story, yes.

[34:22] Ben Rimalower: But she's also, and I say this as a term of respect, she's a song stylist.

[34:28] Daniel Nolen: And let me put it this way she's a musician.

[34:31] Ben Rimalower: So Bette is singing music, and she's using her voice as an instrument to make beautiful music.

[34:39] Daniel Nolen: It's not um, you know, a lot of the singers that we talk about, the Patties and the Barbras and stuff, like part of them is telling the story, and part of them is maybe showing off how great their voice is.

[34:53] Ben Rimalower: But they're not necessarily like painting a picture with their voice in this way, you know.

[34:58] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[34:59] Ben Rimalower: Um and Bette really, and you know, it's I've railed against Barbara comparing her to Bette on that old standard for all we know.

[35:07] Daniel Nolen: Not the Karen Carpenter for all we know, which we love Karen and Shirley Bassey and Carol Burnett and random people doing.

[35:13] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, but the old standard for all we know, which Barbara sang at the concert in '93 and just does a worthless version.

[35:20] Daniel Nolen: Oh, just an artless, heartless, snooze fest take on the song.

[35:27] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[35:27] Daniel Nolen: As opposed to Bette's, which is on is that on the Boys for the Boys, is the opposite.

[35:34] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I didn't even think it was a good song until I heard Bette's version that's just exquisite, you know.

[35:40] Daniel Nolen: And and and it's is it's the kind she's that kind of song is the kind of assignment where she really shows up and does that kind of a performance.

[35:49] Ben Rimalower: And that's exactly what Spring Can Really Hang You Up the Most is.

[35:53] Daniel Nolen: And um it's just it is exquisite.

[35:57] Ben Rimalower: And it's um it's amazing that she does that live.

[36:03] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, and like I said, she just sounds so good.

[36:07] Ben Rimalower: And and also worth mentioning, she doesn't just sit there and and sing it.

[36:11] Daniel Nolen: It's it's a very involved uh staging of it.

[36:16] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, with like lying on her back and like yeah, being filmed from above, and then she steps one foot off the step.

[36:24] Daniel Nolen: Like very few performers could pull that off.

[36:29] Ben Rimalower: Like, I you know, it's not really their brand, but Patty or Bernadette or Liza, or even in some ways Barbara, they could do the comedy bits Bette does.

[36:42] Daniel Nolen: Maybe they wouldn't do Bette's comedy, they'd have to do their comedy, but they could do that kind of stuff.

[36:47] Ben Rimalower: And if they got off their asses and learned theography, I mean, certainly Liza does choreography, they could do the big numbers Bette does, you know.

[36:56] Daniel Nolen: And obviously they all can sit on a chair and you know, and just sing the fucking song, you know.

[37:01] Ben Rimalower: But I don't think any of them could do this.

[37:04] Daniel Nolen: What is this? Their eyes were watching God.

[37:06] Ben Rimalower: I mean, she's lying on her back, like seeming to like pull the the stout, you know, the the petals from a flower.

[37:14] Daniel Nolen: I mean, it's like this very kind of heavy-handed, like poetic.

[37:19] Ben Rimalower: Um, you know, it's a very arty, I mean, she's really putting herself out there, and like, you know, it's a strong choice what they do with this number.

[37:29] Daniel Nolen: And I don't think any of those people could do something this frilly.

[37:34] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[37:35] Daniel Nolen: I mean, and Bette does it and pulls it off 100%.

[37:39] Ben Rimalower: You don't doubt her for a second.

[37:42] Daniel Nolen: Can you imagine Barbara lying down on the stage?

[37:45] Ben Rimalower: I mean, the sad thing is I well, not lying on the stage. I can imagine Barbara making these kind of Laura Ashley choices.

[37:52] Daniel Nolen: But if Barbara did something this Laura Ashley, it would be so offensively bad that even Barbara would probably think better on it, you know.

[38:01] Ben Rimalower: But Bette really gets away with it.

[38:03] Daniel Nolen: I mean, it's just lovely and interesting and different, and it really goes well with the artful way that she sings the song.

[38:11] Ben Rimalower: Yes, absolutely.

[38:13] Daniel Nolen: Um, and then next she sings Bed of Roses, which is another kind, yeah, I guess another ballad.

[38:20] Ben Rimalower: And then by the way, I mean that too.

[38:22] Daniel Nolen: It's like it it's that's another one.

[38:25] Ben Rimalower: It's the same with the song that preceded it, and they go with um Spring Can Hang You Up the Most, and they go well together in a sense.

[38:31] Daniel Nolen: They both kind of have the same mood.

[38:34] Ben Rimalower: And both of them, and especially Bed of Roses, because that's more of a quote unquote pop song, and it's from her album Bed of Roses.

[38:42] Daniel Nolen: I mean, it's sort of 90s pop, you know, 90s alternative pop.

[38:47] Ben Rimalower: So it's not really in the vein of like From a Distance or whatever, you know.

[38:52] Daniel Nolen: But it's um, but it's so that like singer-songwriter-y kind of alternative pop, it's almost hard to imagine out of context that that song would fit so well into a Bette Midler's show.

[39:06] Ben Rimalower: I mean, don't forget, this is the same concert where a few minutes later she's gonna be dressed as a mermaid on an electric wheelchair making dick jokes, you know.

[39:13] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah.

[39:14] Ben Rimalower: But Bette Midler is so able to encompass all those things together.

[39:19] Daniel Nolen: And this is absolutely exquisite.

[39:21] Ben Rimalower: I mean, it's it's it makes me appreciate the song in a way that I wouldn't have, even though I love it on the album Bed of Roses, but I wouldn't have thought that a live performance would be so captivating.

[39:31] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[39:32] Daniel Nolen: And it's also a really, really impressive vocal. It's one thing for her to do that on the album, but there was, I think I pointed it out to you while we were watching it. There was a line where she was like in chest voice, and then she goes up into this mixed voice, or even like really, uh, almost like a pure head voice, and then goes back down into the chest register without any breath, and finishes the end of the line in chest with flourish.

[40:02] Ben Rimalower: And it's just such vocal, authoritative confidence, like confidence. Think about, for example, Patti LuPone has a better, stronger voice than Bette Midler's. But if you had to take Patti LuPone's lungs and diaphragm and Bette Midler's's lungs and diaphragm, and you had to choose one of them to last you for like an hour scuba diving, you would probably choose Patti's, right? And yet, even Patti, who can blow the roof off the place by exploding into an enormous, crazy loud belt note in a straight-toned chest voice on a very high note that goes bigger and louder and longer than you would have expected. And when you would have thought it would be over, then it releases the vibrato. And even then the vibrato sort of cascades longer than the orchestra is even playing, and you can't believe she did it for that long.

There's still a little sense with Patti of doing it that somehow gravity is involved. Kind of the way like an amazing acrobat does a flip. You can't believe they did a quadruple flip, but they're still sort of in a way they're racing against the clock of gravity. You know what I'm saying? Whereas with Bette, there's something about this that is so artfully planned that it's like she seems to just be completely in the driver's seat in this way. There's gravity is not factoring in. It's like she's just painting one stroke after the other. It doesn't have the tension of the thing that Patti LuPone does, which give, you know, so it's I'm not shitting on Patti, obviously, but I'm just saying there's something that's so it's so without tension.

It's just like she sings to the end of that line in this way that is just so calm. And it just enables her to just do something that a lot of them couldn't do. And yet, singers that do that kind of calm, artful singing tend to be more boring and don't have Bette's theatrical prowess.

[42:11] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah. It's a nice balance. I mean, she's truly an artist. You know, she's not just one of those performers who's like a vessel, you know, or like a voice.

[42:20] Ben Rimalower: Exactly. Um, so then we go into this, which I have never heard this before, and I was loving it so much. She talks about, um, movies in The First Wives Club, which you know was a big, big hit. Um, box office success.

[42:34] Daniel Nolen: I know, and all the stuff about the testosterone kings being toast by Sunday, naming names of, I mean, it's funny because she says the people that were stars of box office Bruce Willis, Steven Seagal. But like, but I just it really, I mean, I love that her production company was called All Girl Productions. And The First Wives Club is this Bette Midler's, Goldie Hawn, Diane Keaton. I mean, we were talking about when we quarantined it, how we were taking it from the patriarchy and proclaiming the actual like classic that it truly is. And you know, and I love that Bette is leaning into that and embracing that in this moment that you know they were not supposed to do better than those big testosterone movies that they opened against, but they grossed a hundred million. And you know, I love that it's this like, um, uh, power for women and gay men moment.

[43:26] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, exactly. Um, so she sings "Everything's Coming Up Grosses," obviously a parody of uh "Everything's Coming Up Roses," and um going into of course "You Don't Own Me," thrilling the signature songs. "Everything's Coming Up Grosses," I have to say, is maybe the best. I mean, I was like squealing with delight. I mean, so good. I'm in a hit, a big fucking hit. Baby. You know, "Everything's Coming Up Grosses" for me, so fuck you. It's so incredible.

[43:59] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. It's amazing. I just love her just like savoring that.

[44:03] Ben Rimalower: And yes. And then "You Don't Know Me." And that, by the way, "You Don't Own Me." Oh, I meant I didn't do my homework. I meant to compare it to how she does it on the For the Girls album. Because I couldn't remember that was on there. I couldn't remember how that was on that album. But it's anyway, but it's a great version of "You Don't Own Me." And it made me really mad that this was not an album, also.

[44:27] Daniel Nolen: Uh, you mean this concert?

[44:28] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, this should have been a live concert, huh?

[44:30] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it really should have been. Um, you know, I just it's so also interesting thinking about not only is Bette, you know, legendary, she started out as a live performer, you know, with kind of the comedian uh stand-up chops, and she's also a best-selling recording artist, but she's also a movie star. And it's like those three threads she kind of weaves together to create this braid of, you know, I like that showbiz fabulousness throughout the night. And whether, you know, some of her fans like us are a fan of all three of those elements, but some are just fans from movies, some are just fans of her uh music work. So, you know, there's something for everyone, but the way she weaves it all together and uses each of those elements of her uh self and her identity and um persona as a star and a singer and an artist, um, and creates a show like you're saying that's so artful, but so high energy and entertaining is just really uh extraordinary and you know, I mean that is just so unique because she um she was born and became a star in a time when we no longer had the kind of entertainment where somebody could just be like a singer and a star and do these big shows and be huge, you know.

[45:52] Ben Rimalower: And like the old school sort of, you know, in the era of rock and roll, you had to be a musician and you had to be a songwriter. And uh, you know, Barbra became famous so young that she kind of got in under the wire.

[46:08] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. Um, that's a good point. And you know, Bette was able to be enough of a rock and roll singer and enough of a counter-culture figure that she in a way got in under the wire too, even though it was, you know, 10 years later or whatever. And then she was able to become a movie star, not the, you know, Barbra was a movie star in the 60s and 70s as a romantic leading lady. Bette Midler became a movie star as an above the title uh character actress in the 80s and 90s, you know. And like so it's such a weird patchwork that made her career and the fact that she's able to have these live shows that utilize all those things and sell out in Vegas or Madison Square Garden or wherever, you know. I mean, it's the thing that eluded Liza, you know.

Like, uh, Liza in a way sort of started off on like the Barbra track, but she didn't get in as well. And then, you know, uh, you know, not as successfully uh or you know, it ended, and she wasn't able to translate it into the pop hits that Barbra had, or the 80s and 90s comedies that Bette had. And so, you know, even at Liza's peak, she was playing Radio City, not Madison Square Garden. And, you know, that's a difference of what, like 15,000 seats.

[47:39] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah. Um, and it's also worth mentioning, Bette is, you know, in this uh concert, I'm sure on HBO it was, I mean, it was on HBO, obviously, so it was mature content. Uh, but you know, she drops the F bomb a lot. Um, she makes jokes about sex and her tits and all this kind of off-color humor. But then, you know, she's also known, like I knew her, of course, as a kid. The first time I was ever I ever knew who Bette was was because of Hocus Pocus, which is Disney. And uh when I saw her at Madison Square Garden, uh it was the For the Girls tour. She did this whole Hocus Pocus bit with like the costume and the house, and I mean, and I mean, she has such a range of not only appeal, but like what she can get away with.

You know, it's like she's a she's done Disney movies, but yet she's also a raunchy, like back in the day, like this kind of sexed up, like uh, you know, foul-mouthed comedian. I don't, I don't know. It's not like people who are like, well, we're not gonna go see her because she's too dirty, or she, I mean, that is someone that's like a household name as well as you know, kind of this edgy uh kind of groundbreaker from back in the day.

[48:53] Daniel Nolen: Well, and she jokes about it, how like now she's gotta be respectable, you know. Um, but I mean, you know, that was the change. I mean, when she went, when she made The Rose and then, you know, started doing all those movies in the 80s and stuff, yeah, you know, uh, you know, I mean, Beaches was a more family-esque film in a way than she had she did change her um her uh limits a little bit, you know. I mean, also she was older, you know, and she was a mom and whatever, and it was the 80s, you know. But um, although I have to say, I there she did a bunch of material on this about sort of like making fun of like political correctness. And her 90s take on that I enjoyed. Whereas now I have no patience for that when people do that, including her. Um, I thought that was interesting to notice.

[49:49] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, it was like the "Oh I Worry" monologue.

[49:52] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah.

[49:53] Ben Rimalower: Oh, I worry, and then she would go off on something. Um, and okay, so then she sings "The Rose." And I have to say that if you had asked me from my memory or just my expectations going to watch this for the first time in 20 years, whether "The Rose" was something I was excited to watch her do, I would have said absolutely not. And I could not have been more just staggeringly moved by it. I thought it was so gorgeous and expressive and moving. And I realized like Bette is one of the few people that I can really enjoy an inspirational ballad from. Like when Bette, I guess it goes it's it's along the same lines of like enjoying the Laura Ashley, like their eyes were watching God choreography for spring can really hang you up the most. Like, I will just give Bette a long leash. And maybe it's because she's foul-mouthed and edgy. So she's kind of earned the right to be sappy too, in a way.

[50:53] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I mean, it's it's like, you know, it's a balance. It's like you're you're kind of ready for this now because she's given you these high-energy uh performances, and then she kind of goes to this moment of okay, it's a little, maybe it's a little sappy, but it's quiet. But it's not just a balance because other people could balance it and then they wouldn't get away with it. It's there's something about her, what's special to her is that she can actually really fill both of those spaces in an authentic way.

[51:23] Ben Rimalower: And it made me wish that Bette had played the Witch in Into the Woods. Because I mean, she would probably should have been it in the movie. She probably would have some like cheesy mugging moments that would be annoying. Um, although she would be pretty hilarious in like the rap and stuff. But when Bette would sing "Children Will Listen," I would not be like, ah, a third inspirational ballad in a row. I would be like so excited to hear her do it.

[51:51] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I would love to hear her sing that song anyway.

[52:24] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I'm with you.

[52:26] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, she still should. Yeah, I love that. And there's some there's a part of "The Rose" that always gets me. It's it's uh if it's like a dissonant chord or like a minor, I don't know how to just how to the right word for it, but it's on when she sings taken, it's like da-da-da, won't be taken. And there's some sort of suspension or chord change or something that happens there that is just so beautiful. And that part always, always gets me, a little pang to my soul.

[52:26] Ben Rimalower: Um, okay, so then we she does her first costume change, I believe. And she well, she kind, I mean, it's kind of she just puts on this little uh um kind of empire-waisted dress over her existing costume.

[52:38] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, and then a short, a short moo.

[52:38] Ben Rimalower: A short moo, a shumu.

[52:43] Daniel Nolen: And then uh she talks about Gypsy and burlesque, uh which she describes as vaudeville with an X rating, and well, then she does that number Pretty Legs and Great Big Knockers, yes, which goes on for a very long time with a lot of burlesque business uh interspersed.

[53:01] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, and it goes on way too long.

[53:02] Daniel Nolen: And she does well Bernie and Louie.

[53:05] Ben Rimalower: It's it I for me.

[53:07] Daniel Nolen: This section was too like I I think that like this didn't work for me.

[53:12] Ben Rimalower: It was the first time I was like disengaged because it felt like it was literally she's just like, Well, we gotta entertain them, so let's think of stuff we can do.

[53:22] Daniel Nolen: You know, and I need higher stakes. I need to feel like you're actually there's something important that you want to convey to me, even if it's just comedy or something, but it has to feel more like it comes from a personal place of investment, and this just feels like it's just shtick for shtick's sake.

[53:46] Ben Rimalower: It's very shticky, however, I and I was feeling so disengaged and so bored and because it was going on so long, but then she ends with that blind man joke, which was so funny that I kind of forgave it a bit.

[53:59] Daniel Nolen: But yeah, um then she sings the I I just wrote down the Doctor song by Mark Shaman, which I cannot remember what that is.

[54:07] Ben Rimalower: Oh, it's like a doctor, a doctor, she's a daughter's marrying a doctor.

[54:11] Daniel Nolen: Yes, she did it recently on some like a COVID thing, and so and so did Mark Shaman, actually. It's a great song.

[54:16] Ben Rimalower: It was actually easier to appreciate on YouTube than this concert where it's sort of sandwiched in and it's just like goes by really fast.

[54:23] Daniel Nolen: Um, but it's a very, very funny Mark Shaman song. Um, but it's that's just kind of part of like the bigger, like pretty legs and great big knockers like medley section, isn't it?

[54:33] Ben Rimalower: Yes, yes.

[54:35] Daniel Nolen: Because then she does the dance with the girls with the pasties on their tits.

[54:41] Ben Rimalower: And then and it's very I I was reminded in that moment of Liza at Radio City, where she has all those ladies up on stage with her, and she's like frazzled trying to organize them.

[54:50] Daniel Nolen: I'll give this to Liza. Liza's thing with the ladies, however cheesy the conceit may have been, it was at least a conceit that gave it context.

[55:02] Ben Rimalower: The story was that Liza was doing a live concert, and these girls were interrupting it and they wanted to be in the show, and then they won her over and she let them be in the show.

[55:12] Daniel Nolen: And Liza committed to that 100,000 percent, and I was completely invested in that moment.

[55:20] Ben Rimalower: And this just felt like showbiz bullshit.

[55:25] Daniel Nolen: I I really I I think I like that comparison because I think the Liza thing worked much better for me.

[55:31] Ben Rimalower: Yes, yes, you're right. Uh and then Act One Closer, which I was so surprised that this was like the closer of Act One, Rose's turn.

[55:41] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[55:41] Ben Rimalower: And I loved it. I mean, like uh I like I said to you last night, I have not seen Bette's Gypsy, which I can't believe. So that's next on my list.

[55:49] Daniel Nolen: Or we could even corn stream that. But although, as I said, there are several gypsies we could corn stream.

[55:55] Ben Rimalower: True that. So uh you know it's so funny. I'm pretty sure I have to go back and check the receipts, but I'm thinking, did Barbra close act one with Rose's turn when she was at uh Back to Brooklyn at Bacley's?

[56:12] Daniel Nolen: Maybe, but didn't Barbra do like a bullshit, like not really Rose's turn. It was like a medley, I think.

[56:17] Ben Rimalower: But fucking Barbra. Oh my god, now I'm gonna have to go back and look.

[56:20] Daniel Nolen: I maybe a lot of people have said they would love to see me sing Rose's turn.

[56:26] Ben Rimalower: So we're gonna do 45 seconds of it.

[56:29] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I'm going to sing it all right. Um, okay, so Act Two opens with uh one of my favorite favorite Bette songs, Drinkin' Again.

[56:42] Ben Rimalower: And it's a complete, there's a complete tiny little set happening. There's uh a bar that she's sitting at and a sign behind her that says karaoke tonight.

[56:54] Daniel Nolen: And then uh she's wearing some sort of like uh wool coat that's like buttoned up to her chin, which I immediately clocked. I was like, there's some sort of um costume change or reveal that's gonna happen.

[57:09] Ben Rimalower: And sure enough, drinking again, and then she sings MacArthur Park, is that right?

[57:14] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, well, it's like a you know it's a thrill. It's like a mashup medley, yeah.

[57:18] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Uh and then because and she had a really funny line in that where she's like, she's like, because it took so long to make it.

[57:26] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[57:27] Ben Rimalower: And sure enough, uh she she uh whips it out, and by it I mean her mermaid tail, and we go into the Dolores Delago section.

[57:37] Daniel Nolen: Also long.

[57:39] Ben Rimalower: Also very long. Although, funny enough, at the end of it, she does New York, New York.

[57:46] Daniel Nolen: Um I forgot that. And I was like, is this the I mean, should as a joke, you know, it's Dolores with the girls. I mean, it's not like she's stealing Liza's number or anything.

[57:55] Ben Rimalower: Right. But um, but I was like, is this actually the only Kander and Ebb she's ever sung, other than like people's fantasies of her doing the movie of Chicago?

[58:03] Daniel Nolen: That's a good question. I mean, off the top of my head, I can't think of any others.

[58:07] Ben Rimalower: Meanies. But yeah, the I mean, I will say, I I did enjoy watching her jump around and move around the stage within the constraints of the mermaid tail.

[58:19] Daniel Nolen: Totally. Because it was pretty impressive. I mean, that can't be easy to keep your balance.

[58:25] Ben Rimalower: Um, but I do think, you know, I mean, that kind of bit with the mermaid tail was one thing, and then when you put the mermaid in the wheelchair, that's another thing. So I don't know, it was kind of too many bits for me.

[58:35] Daniel Nolen: And then, yeah, the wheelchair choreography at the end, it it did kind of drag on. But within the Dolores section, we get some great songs.

[58:43] Ben Rimalower: Oogie Boogie Bugle Boy, Boogie Boogie Boogie Boogie Bugle Boy.

[58:48] Daniel Nolen: Oogie Boogie is uh Nightmare Before Christmas, uh, which is on the album Divine Miss M.

[58:54] Ben Rimalower: Divine Miss M. And then one of her hits, weirdly enough.

[58:57] Daniel Nolen: Weirdly enough. And then we get Well, I don't know if it's a hit, but it's one of her signatures.

[59:01] Ben Rimalower: And then we it ends with kind of like a stunt. Like she is being held up by the girls, and then they kind of flip her over in the air.

[59:10] Daniel Nolen: It's again pretty impressive.

[59:12] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. And then she does a weird bridge over troubled water where she's the girls are lined up and she's laying across their back.

[59:19] Daniel Nolen: Oh, this is the whole joke of like with the girls. I mean, that was that was like MacArthur Park.

[59:24] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Greatest Love of All, is that the last one she sings in that book?

[59:29] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I mean, you know, it was all like those I I gave her license to drive.

[59:33] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and another thing about her career that's so interesting is because all this shtick and all the characters that she's developed and and used over the years. I I don't know if inside jokes the word, but it's like if you're a Bette fan, you get it.

[59:51] Daniel Nolen: And that's a way you're like, oh yeah, she's doing Dolores now, or oh yes, now she's doing like the Sof and Ernie bit, you know, and that's like a touchstone.

[59:58] Ben Rimalower: It's like um, I don't know, a little special moment she has with the audience because she's like bringing it back, and yeah, it's these things that she's developed over the years that's not just based in her hit films that everyone's seen, you know.

[1:00:09] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[1:00:10] Ben Rimalower: So you kind of have to have a full Bette history to fully appreciate.

[1:00:14] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. Okay, then she does ukulele lady, which that's on Bathhouse Betty.

[1:00:19] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. And when did that come out?

[1:00:21] Daniel Nolen: When did that album come out?

[1:00:22] Ben Rimalower: Like 98.

[1:00:23] Daniel Nolen: So that's after this.

[1:00:24] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. So she was just, you know, kind of testing material.

[1:00:27] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I love that song though. And I I love anytime she does anything Hawaiian, but I love that song and I love that album.

[1:00:32] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, me. I love that album too. That's a great summer album.

[1:00:36] Daniel Nolen: I mean, that I mean, Thiz and Whispers obviously is my uh uh higher power. But Bathhouse Betty is one I listen to a lot when I'm walking around the streets in the summertime.

[1:00:45] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:00:46] Daniel Nolen: And then we get another new dress and we get from a distance.

[1:00:51] Ben Rimalower: Inspirational power ballad.

[1:00:53] Daniel Nolen: The belt was in peak form.

[1:00:57] Ben Rimalower: Truly. I mean, that's I've always loved Bette's singing voice. But I think maybe because I know I've listened so much to her early recordings and Bette at the Baths, where she's just so like balls to the wall, kind of screaming, and that part of me always kind of thought she knows how to use it, but it's not necessarily like uh a beautiful trained voice.

[1:01:20] Daniel Nolen: But throughout this whole concert, sh it's there's never, she's never flat. She's never um she's a better musician than most Broadway belters, you know.

[1:01:31] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I mean, it's I mean, it's and two hours of singing, she never once falters. I mean, it's it's not at all very impressive.

[1:01:38] Daniel Nolen: I mean, it's funny because I actually knew her more from the sort of like warm, syrupy 80s pop ballads than I did from I I I had to then discover on my own the raunchy campy rock and roll Bette Midler's. Um, so I mean I really thought of like this kind of voice and style first, you know.

[1:02:03] Ben Rimalower: Um, but it but it is just impressive to just see her do it live, you know, because it is so warm and and expressive and beautiful all at the same time.

[1:02:11] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, and you know it's live. It's not, you know, you it's nothing to do with the production, you know, studio editing.

[1:02:17] Ben Rimalower: I was wondering like, do you think Bette believes in God?

[1:02:20] Daniel Nolen: I think so. I mean, I think if you asked her, she would say yeah.

[1:02:23] Ben Rimalower: I mean, in like a very kind of new age-y from a distance way.

[1:02:27] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I hope it's like that and not just some like rote, like I'm Jewish. You know, like I said, I have a lot of religious family members, Christian family members, and you know, this song could kind of have a Christian bend to it.

[1:02:40] Ben Rimalower: Oh, for sure. I mean, there's no question Bette I I was I when I said Jewish, I meant in terms of her personal beliefs. If there's one thing I there's one thing I know Bette would be smart enough to do is if she's recording an inspirational quasi-religious spiritual ballad, she would make sure it applies to the largest section of the population.

[1:02:59] Daniel Nolen: Absolutely. But like I know, you know, certain of my family members who love this song were like, well, but it's still it's not really theologically sound because God's looking at us from a distance, like he's actually in our hearts, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1:03:12] Ben Rimalower: So I mean, if you if you're thinking about it from that perspective, I know a lot of um hardcore religious folk who would not, you know, that's a agree with it.

[1:03:20] Daniel Nolen: I mean, that would probably be any religion. I mean, the anyone that puts that kind of like a literal like test to the song, I mean, it's not a you know, um, theological song.

[1:03:31] Ben Rimalower: I mean, you know, it Right, exactly. I mean, it's like Barbra's uh second Christmas album, which I don't really love, but she has that song called One God. And I remember like in the in the liner notes, she was like, This is something I believe in, the idea of oneness and unity, you know, so it's very um broad and watered down.

[1:03:51] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. Um speaking of from a distance, do you think Barbra, whenever Bette had such a hit with this, she was like, um, you know, I think I'll have um Alan and Marilyn Bergman write me a song called From a From a Distance, and it'll be about my relationship with the audience.

[1:04:06] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Can't get far enough away.

[1:04:09] Daniel Nolen: You know, that's how she wants you to see her.

[1:04:11] Ben Rimalower: Faux show. Okay, so Bette gives us the inspirational power ballad, and then she she gives us a little I don't know if you call it dessert, but for me it was because she sings Do You Wanna Dance?

[1:04:23] Daniel Nolen: Which I fucking love this song, and um did not disappoint.

[1:04:29] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, totally. I mean, you mentioned earlier her breathiness. I mean, this is one of the songs that Do You Wan It Exactly, you know, and the way she styles that is so divine.

[1:04:40] Daniel Nolen: So it's the divine Miss M. Then to comfort you, which was an interesting choice.

[1:04:46] Ben Rimalower: From Thought of Roses.

[1:04:47] Daniel Nolen: That of Roses, which I love that song.

[1:04:49] Ben Rimalower: Me too. But again, it's that very um kind of cheesy 90s alt-rock alt-pop uh feel.

[1:04:59] Daniel Nolen: And uh I always love to listen to this song uh when I've been drinking and I'm laying in bed trying to go to sleep for some reason.

[1:05:06] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I I guess I have to agree with what you say. I I just love that album so much, and it brings me such happy like nostalgia, so I was just happy to hear it.

[1:05:16] Daniel Nolen: Um but I guess there are actually are other songs on that album I would have rather had her do live.

[1:05:21] Ben Rimalower: What year was that album?

[1:05:24] Daniel Nolen: 96 or 97.

[1:05:26] Ben Rimalower: So it was between uh some people's lives and 95, 95.

[1:05:32] Daniel Nolen: Okay, so but it yeah, so between some people's lives and Bathhouse Betty, is that right?

[1:05:37] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[1:05:38] Daniel Nolen: Then she sings Stay With Me Baby.

[1:05:42] Ben Rimalower: Yes, she does, which again just commits and goes in, and it's like she's, you know, in her 20s again. I mean, it's really, really incredible. I mean, you know, I like I said before, to be a star in the rock and roll era, you really needed to be a songwriter and a musician. I mean, uh, you know, an instrumentalist almost. I mean, there was very, you know, it when you think of like a, um, you know, I don't know, Joan Jett or Stevie Nicks or Tina Turner, even well, she's a little more like from the R&B roots, but you know, it you know, Bette isn't what those people were. But when Bette sings a rock and roll song, nothing that she does could be done any better.

[1:06:34] Daniel Nolen: Yes, yes. Like absolutely. Maybe she didn't, she isn't who you had to be to be a rock star, but the way she performs rock and roll is of the quality of the greatest rock and roll stars.

[1:06:49] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and that's the reason, by the way, that over the years she had collaborations with Bob Dylan and Mick Jagger and, um, you know, um, fuck, uh, Randy Newman and, and, and I mean everybody. Like, um, did she make Jagger fuck? Am I making that up? Maybe, I don't know. I don't know why I feel like I've heard that. Anyway, maybe not. I mean, I feel like Mick Jagger fucked everybody, but I didn't think that Bette did, except maybe in the 70s for a little while. But, uh, I just love her singing of this. And I told you this last night that when I saw Bette, um, the one time I've ever seen Bette was at Madison Square Garden in 1999. It was the Divine Miss Millennium Tour. And I, it was just a couple years after this, and I had been so obsessed with this video, and I went to that with really high expectations, and I had really bad seats, and I felt really disengaged from pretty much the whole show.

And then right near the end, and I felt like I couldn't connect with her, you know, so far away. Um, but right near the end, exactly. She sang "From a Distance." Um, but right, right near the end, she sang "Stay With Me, Baby." And it was as if she was sitting on my lap. I mean, it was so, you know, transfixing. And seeing it in close up in this video, no less so. I mean, it's, you know, so, so powerful and thrilling, and it, you know, it's just, it's everything you would want it to be.

[1:08:24] Daniel Nolen: Okay, then we get I guess the closing number, "Wind Beneath My Wings."

[1:08:28] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. It's funny, I was thinking in terms of that song, especially. Like, I wonder how much of the way I feel about Bette compared to the way I feel about Barbra, um, is influenced by the fact that Barbra never had a pop hit when I was old enough to know or care. So to me, Barbra's somebody who had pop hits in the old days and had been a Broadway star and now was sort of like easy listening. And like I liked her old work and I liked her new stuff as a little bit of like a camp curiosity.

[1:09:03] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:09:03] Ben Rimalower: And I still liked her like as a diva, you know. But like, but it seemed to me that basically Barbra's like creative fertile period was long gone before I came around, you know.

[1:09:13] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:09:14] Ben Rimalower: Whereas Bette, I mean, you know, I grew up with Bette as a movie star. And then when I was 12, "Beaches" came out, and before I even saw "Beaches" or knew about "Beaches," every single radio station was playing "The Wind Beneath My Wings" all the time. Like that was an inescapable number one crazy dominating the world pop hit, like later on, like "I Will Always Love You," you know.

[1:09:41] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:09:42] Ben Rimalower: It like it took over that summer or whatever that was, you know. Um, and then "From a Distance" was a really big hit too, you know. And that was a couple years later. So I think it's like, it's like one thing for you to know for a fact Barbra had a pop career. But it's different to know something than to live through it in terms of that, you know. And, um, and, um, I was just thinking that when she was singing "Wind Beneath My Wings," it's like when Barbra sings "Evergreen," I might as well be watching her sing. I might as well be watching Patti sing or something, you know. You know, or not even don't, you know, that's a bad example because of Patti. You know, but like I might as well be watching Liz Callaway sing "The Story Goes On." You know, it's like this is like a really beautiful song that she sings better than anybody else, that she originated in something she did in the past.

[1:10:38] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:10:39] Ben Rimalower: You know, as opposed to like, oh, this song was my moment when I was 12, and not just my moment because I'm weird and gay, but like my moment, like the whole world was like living this song, you know.

[1:10:51] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah, that's a really interesting point.

[1:10:54] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I mean, because there are songs that I, I mean, I for me, those songs in my adolescence or whatever, were, I mean, Celine Dion's "My Heart Will Go On." I mean, that's a song that totally I remember have such vivid memories of being at the skating rink on some sort of class field trip, yeah. And that song came on, and I lost my fucking mind because it was this, it was just this pop culture moment, and I love the movie "Titanic," and you know, I'm not that into Celine now, but I mean she was at that time like, oh my god, Celine Dion was like a diva, and she was someone who, uh, you know, that had this hit song, and I as a young third grader, or however whatever age I was was a part of that, you know.

[1:11:41] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, okay. So then the encore, I guess, is "Glory of Love."

[1:11:47] Ben Rimalower: Also from "Beaches."

[1:11:48] Daniel Nolen: Also from "Beaches."

[1:11:50] Ben Rimalower: I haven't seen that in so long. I need to give it a rewatch. I love that movie.

[1:11:54] Daniel Nolen: Was that a musical as well?

[1:11:56] Ben Rimalower: They did a musical adaptation. Uh, yes, but I don't attempt to, I think that was misguided.

[1:12:03] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:12:03] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I don't know. I say that, but I have no idea. But, um, but "The First Wives Club" to me feels like something that demands to be made a musical. Whereas "Beaches," I'm like, oh, they're looking for projects.

[1:12:16] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:12:17] Ben Rimalower: And maybe it's a good idea. I mean, I actually, I was about to say I never read the book, but weirdly, I actually did read the book.

[1:12:21] Daniel Nolen: Oh, I didn't even know there was a book.

[1:12:23] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Oh, "The First Wives Club" was a book too, actually.

[1:12:26] Daniel Nolen: Right, right, right.

[1:12:28] Ben Rimalower: You know what it is? Because "Beaches" already is a musical. That's why I'm annoyed by them making a musical out of "Beaches."

[1:12:34] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I guess that's true.

[1:12:36] Ben Rimalower: I mean, what does a musical mean? It doesn't have diegetic songs, you know. But like she's got like, "I Want My Career on Broadway," but I also want to keep this marriage. You know, it's not like a musical, but like there's all these songs that are performed in the movie by Bette Midler's that are part of what we love about it and what made us remember it, you know? "Right Under the Boardwalk," "Glory of Love." Um, "Industry Charity," "Auto Titsling." I mean, it was on an "I Still Got My Health," uh, uh, "Baby Mine." I mean, it's really a lot of music, you know.

[1:13:15] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:13:16] Ben Rimalower: Um, and, uh, you know, it's a different situation with "The First Wives Club," which just screams to be a musicalized, but it's not a musical. I mean, yeah, they kind of sing that one song, but barely, you know.

[1:13:29] Daniel Nolen: Barely, yeah.

[1:13:30] Ben Rimalower: One other thing I noticed about Bette that I love, Bette, you know, Bette really knows how to receive the love from the audience, and she really takes it in, and you can tell it means something to her, maybe not quite so in such a, I don't know. When Liza receives the love from the audience, and it's, I mean, she's a little overwhelmed by it, I feel. And it can get to a point where she's like, you know, okay, like I'm, you know, let's continue. Bette is, uh, as when I saw Bette at Madison Square Garden, I remember her being like, please keep applauding. I'm a bottomless pit, you know, like I'll take it all. And I feel like Bette really kind of, as even as the concert goes on and progresses, it's like she feeds off that applause and the love from the audience. Whereas someone like Barbra, I feel like the applause means nothing to her, you know. She just literally wants it to be over.

[1:14:26] Daniel Nolen: Well, I mean, it's also like, you know, Bette has been in show business in the sense of the business. I mean, you know, for all of Bette's, uh, glamorous triumphs like this, Bette has had, um, you know, she played gigs that weren't sold out over the years. I mean, you know, Bette's been constantly touring in concert on and off for the last 40 years. And that's been how she's made her living, and there's been ups and downs. And she, you know, whereas I think Barbra is sort of like, you know, she was a kid, she was struggling, she was fighting, all of a sudden she exploded like a supernova. And like, you know, for the most part, everywhere she's ever appeared since then has been like a global event, completely sold out. People mortgaged their houses and drop dead to get there. You know, so it's a little bit like, uh, okay, like it's almost like she could take it for granted, you know.

[1:15:23] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:15:24] Ben Rimalower: Um, it's weird to compare it with Liza because it's like I think with Liza, there's just so much else going on in terms of like her like mental and physical like well-being and like emotional state. And the audience, and I'm not saying Bette or Barbra aren't crazy or fucked up or whatever, you know, maybe they are. But with Liza, it's such a part of what she does on stage, and the audience is so plugged into like Liza's like fragility, but also like triumph over fragility. And so, like, you know, every Liza performance is like you watch somebody perform open heart surgery, and the patient lived. You know, like to put a better spin on it, like a baby being born, you know. But like it's just everyone's gone through something together in a Liza show. And that's not what happens with Bette or Barbra, you know.

[1:16:18] Daniel Nolen: No, no, no, not at all.

[1:16:20] Ben Rimalower: Anyway, but yeah, I'm so glad we watched that. I, you know, my love for Bette has grown even more. And especially this time of year, like I've always said, Bette is so summer for me. She's Fire Island, she's, you know, pounding the streets of New York, walking around, be bopping to her tunes on my Spotify.

[1:16:41] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:16:42] Ben Rimalower: So, um, anyway, listeners, you can find it on YouTube or where do we watch it?

[1:16:48] Daniel Nolen: Daily Motion.

[1:16:49] Ben Rimalower: Daily Motion. Which by the way, there is a Daily Motion app on Apple TV and probably other, uh, devices like Roku or whatever. So that made it easier to watch that version because that version was a little better than YouTube. Because I know sometimes if you try to do Daily Motion on your phone or your device or whatever, and then you want to like mirror it to your TV, it's just like yet another Wi-Fi connection to fuck you up. But you can actually do Daily Motion directly on the TV. And I, you know, at first I was like, oh, this isn't crystal clear, but it didn't really distract me or bother me at all.

[1:17:27] Daniel Nolen: It bugged me.

[1:17:28] Ben Rimalower: I'm really angry.

[1:17:30] Daniel Nolen: I am so angry.

[1:17:32] Ben Rimalower: I actually, I wanna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say this now, but I'm gonna tweet it too to hopefully promote this fucking episode. I'm gonna say, I can forgive Bette Midler's for supporting Mike Bloomberg, but I cannot forgive her for not making "Diva Las Vegas" streamable.

[1:17:47] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah.

[1:17:48] Ben Rimalower: Or an album.

[1:17:50] Daniel Nolen: Well, that's it, that's another conversation.

[1:17:53] Ben Rimalower: One battle at a time.

[1:17:57] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:17:58] Ben Rimalower: Um, all right. Well, thank you, listeners. Thank you, Benjela.

[1:18:02] Daniel Nolen: Thank you, Daniel.

[1:18:04] Ben Rimalower: And, um, yeah, we'll see y'all soon.

[1:18:07] Daniel Nolen: Bye.

[1:18:09] Ben Rimalower: Thanks for listening to Ben Rimalower's Broken Records on Broadway World.

[1:18:13] Daniel Nolen: For more episodes, visit Broadway World, iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever podcasts do be.

[1:18:19] Ben Rimalower: And be sure to check out our new twice-weekly live stream video chat.

[1:18:23] Daniel Nolen: Tuesday, Thursday, April, August.

[1:18:25] Daniel Nolen: This episode was edited by me, Daniel Nolen.

[1:18:28] Ben Rimalower: Thanks to Emmy-winning composer and lyricist Lance Horn for the Broken Records theme song.

[1:18:32] Daniel Nolen: Follow us both, Ben Rimalower and Daniel Nolen on all y'all's socials.

[1:18:36] Ben Rimalower: That's Ben Rimalower, B-E-N R-I-M, A-L-O-W-E-R.

[1:18:42] Daniel Nolen: And that's Nolen with an E, not Nolen with an A.

[1:18:45] Ben Rimalower: Because Nolen with an A is an A.