This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Ben Rimalower: Broken records. The albums you wouldn't shut up about. Broken records. The music our guests can't live without like Judy, Barbra, Liza, Bent, Betty, Audra, Bernadette. We broadcast this podcast with hopes that someday we might get Patty LaBelle.

[0:32] Ben Rimalower: Welcome to Ben Rimalower's Broken Records on Broadway World, Broadway Podcast Network, and possibly Broadway on Demand. What the hell? I am Ben Rimalower, and that little who-can-say girl was my best boy and yours, Daniel Nolen.

[0:49] Daniel Nolen: Hey y'all. I am so excited to be here with you. As we were just saying, we just took a two-week break from our live stream, which is of course Tuesdays at noon on Broadway World and Broadway Podcast Network, and I've been really missing it. And I even haven't even really talked to you because you've been busy and I've been busy-ish. So this is just so delightful to come back and chat with you about gay shit and be in everyone's earbuds who's listening right now.

[1:19] Ben Rimalower: Yes. Well, I'm excited to connect with you now that you've gone viral on social media.

[1:25] Daniel Nolen: Oh yes, honey. Gone viral. I feel like I was patient zero of the Bernie meme, truly.

[1:32] Ben Rimalower: I know, seriously. Especially the fact that your meme got recycled into that person's—well, for anyone that didn't see it, Daniel did this brilliant Bernie meme of the Sondheim birthday concert red dress ladies with Bernie Sanders sitting there. I mean, it was truly such like just a random, like I wasn't even watching the inauguration, I was like, oh, I can't handle this. So I was just kind of following it on Twitter.

[2:01] Daniel Nolen: It was just in the sweet spot of Didi. It was like such—well, it was the sweet spot of the type of niche content that I and people love. And then also I had only seen like one Bernie meme before that, and it was I think him in Cabaret, someone did him at the Kit Kat Club, and I was like, oh, that's funny. Like, obviously, I love Bernie. I love this picture of him. So, like, what's something I could whip up real fast in Photoshop to contribute? And then, of course, it just like every time I refreshed, I had like, you know, 20 new notifications.

[2:35] Ben Rimalower: And so that, you know, you have those celebrities retweeting you, and not just retweeting you, but being like, this is the best thing I've ever seen.

[2:43] Daniel Nolen: I know. Well, and it was such a—you know, that's all I did all day was just morning to night just lay on the couch and refresh. It was literally, I was like, this is better than like going out and drinking. This is better than sex, like just sitting, laying on my couch, refreshing and getting like just a wave of notifications every two seconds is just divine, just bliss.

[3:05] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Um anyway, so but I was gonna say, your meme got recycled into this guy did a performance of "I'm Still Here" as Bernie Sanders. I shouldn't say this guy, it's actually—I don't know him, but his name is Robert Yacko, and I do know that he played George in Sunday in the Park with George opposite Pamela Myers at Long Beach Night Opera in like 1990-ish.

[3:30] Daniel Nolen: Um, which I didn't see, but he did a not amazing version of Bernie Sanders singing "I'm Still Here," which was neither a great Bernie impression nor great parody lyrics. But he used Daniel's picture as his image.

[3:48] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I'm—you know, I'm so—that made me so happy, even though he didn't credit, whatever.

[3:53] Daniel Nolen: It's your grand meme.

[3:55] Ben Rimalower: It's my grand meme, you know, and I yeah, I mean I have to say it wasn't a great parody and the great Bernie impression, but it made me mad because I was like, oh fuck, why didn't we think of this first? Because that would be a really funny because I actually do kind of a good Bernie voice, but I don't know about singing. But I was like, that would have been a really funny thing to have done. It's like Bernie does a cabaret act or Bernie sings Sandra.

[4:17] Daniel Nolen: Totally. You know, well, I told you I have a drag character in mind, Bernie Anders. And I keep thinking I want to do like makeup tutorials as her. And when I was thinking about how would I do "I'm Still Here" as her, like I wasn't thinking I'd be challenged by singing in the Bernie impression. But now it just occurred to me, I don't know why I'm so convinced I do an amazing Bernie. I've never done it.

[4:44] Ben Rimalower: I think I've heard you do it, I feel like in the world.

[4:47] Daniel Nolen: I think I just sound like that. I think people think I'm doing Bernie Sanders when I'm actually just like being a cranky Jewish person.

[4:54] Ben Rimalower: Right, right. I mean, what you should do is you should do something—you should do like Bernie Sanders does like product reviews or something.

[5:04] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, totally. I don't understand why you can get Mounds, which are dark chocolate with no nuts, and Almond Joys, which are milk chocolate with nuts. What if you like me enjoy milk chocolate but no nuts? Or possibly somebody else? I don't know. I'm sure they exist. They're like dark chocolate and they're like nuts.

[5:25] Ben Rimalower: Oh my god. See, it's already—I love it. It's already brilliant.

[5:27] Daniel Nolen: And your Bernie is so—it's like Bernie, like running a bodega on Bedford Ave. You know, it's like Bernie yelling at like vendors or something.

[5:42] Ben Rimalower: It's not the vendor's fault though. It's really the Mars Corporation.

[5:46] Daniel Nolen: It really is. Don't blame the mom-and-pop small businesses. It's corporate America. It's 1%.

[5:55] Ben Rimalower: What you speak of is such an issue that we need to address because I mean, just last week I went to the corner bodega and got my 12-pack of beer and my Mounds bar. And I was like, oh yeah, you always forget this is dark chocolate.

[6:07] Daniel Nolen: I do not forget. There's also that British, I think it's British candy called Bounty, which never has nuts and it comes both milk chocolate and dark chocolate. But um it's not as—I maybe I'm just a dumb American because it's not like either one of them is like real coconut, you know.

[6:30] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I just love the Mounds because the coconut is just like so—it was like it's just like candied coconut.

[6:38] Daniel Nolen: It's candy. It's like the raisins in Raisin Bran that are like also drenched in sugar.

[6:43] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, literally. Um, love me some Raisin Bran Crunch. I do want to do, speaking of breakfast cereal, a reverse advertisement, if that's such a thing. I would like to take down a product, which is Magic Spoon cereal. And in the podcast world, because I'm such a fan of all the Crooked Media podcasts, especially Pod Save America, has really just been my lifeline.

[7:11] Daniel Nolen: I mean, like, I'm excited we're recording our pod today because I feel like I have just become such a huge podcast devotee for various podcasts, many of them on Crooked Media, but none more so than Pod Save America.

[7:28] Ben Rimalower: And I would do literally anything that John Favreau, John Lovett, and Tommy Vitor, and also Dan Pfeiffer instructed me to do. And they told me, and I know they were paid to do so, that I should try Magic Spoon cereal. And I mean, it's possible, I don't know if you know what it is, but it's like this healthy cereal.

[7:50] Daniel Nolen: I know, yeah.

[7:50] Ben Rimalower: Right. I'm sure it's on lots of pods. Like, so you know, the idea is right that it's like higher in protein and much, much lower in sugar. And like I, and it's somewhat like the flavors are supposed to ape kind of like your favorite sugary commercial cereals, like from your childhood. And like, I feel like maybe for people, which I'm jumping to this conclusion about John Lovett, John Favreau, and Tommy Vitor, unless they're just lying. But like maybe people that like Magic Spoon cereal out there like didn't really grow up around sugar cereals.

[8:24] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[8:26] Ben Rimalower: So in their mind, this conjures something. Or like as an actual sugar cereal, like my mom, like we'd be like, Can I have something healthy? And she'd be like, have Frosted Flakes. Like, that was healthy in my house. And like, I am such a sugar addict, no surprise. And this is not a sugar food. This is like maybe arguably sweet enough in some universe where you consider like Alpha-Bits sweet. But like it is not a very sweet cereal.

[8:56] Daniel Nolen: And like I've already emailed them to say I would like to take advantage—not Tommy and John, but the Johns, but I've emailed Magic Spoon to say I'd like to take advantage of their satisfaction guarantee because I—

[8:56] Ben Rimalower: You went directly to the wizard.

[9:12] Daniel Nolen: Yes, yes. I mean, it didn't have the magic for me.

[9:14] Ben Rimalower: Well, and it's so—the boxes are so small. It's like, what's that? Is it a Woody Allen joke? It's like the food here is horrible. It's such small portions.

[9:21] Daniel Nolen: Well, he says it's an old Groucho Marx joke.

[9:23] Ben Rimalower: Groucho Marx.

[9:24] Daniel Nolen: But um yeah, I'm gonna do it. To John Lovett because his partner is Ronan Farrow, Woody Allen's estranged son.

[9:36] Ben Rimalower: Oh, I didn't know that.

[9:37] Daniel Nolen: I didn't know that.

[9:38] Ben Rimalower: So the best way to really say fuck you to John Lovett is to quote Woody Allen as part of the routine.

[9:44] Daniel Nolen: I didn't know, I mean, I still always forget that Ronan's gay. I mean, out.

[9:49] Ben Rimalower: And I don't forget.

[9:51] Daniel Nolen: I do not forget. But I didn't realize that his partner was also in media. Wow.

[9:57] Ben Rimalower: I mean that just shows you how little I care about—

[9:59] Daniel Nolen: Well, he used to not be because he was just an Obama speechwriter and then gotcha media.

[10:06] Ben Rimalower: I won't complain about the small boxes because I knew what I was getting into when I bought it. But I'm also pissed because you know the thing is I don't think people realize that there's a whole line of Goline cereals by Kashi, which by the way, they should really be paying me because that is really the fast advertisement. Just start out trashing something and then talk about the good product out there that actually like offers you what people like are trying to get from the first product.

[10:35] Daniel Nolen: But like Goline cereal is not—well, some of the versions of Goline actually are pretty crazy sweet. Like all their Goline Crunch is like pretty damn sweet. I enjoy it. My favorite is like the regular Goline cereal. But A, it's healthier than the Magic Spoon cereals because it's not only high in protein and low in sugar, but it's also high in fiber. And it's made from like natural ingredients. So it's like it tastes like honey and nuts and oats and seeds.

[11:09] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, like trail mixing.

[11:11] Daniel Nolen: You know, as opposed to those like Magic Spoon cereals that taste like activate peanut butter.

[11:17] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah. By the way, that's of course my sister's joke that goes back to protein bars from the early aughts, but whatever.

[11:22] Daniel Nolen: That is funny. She—we would we used to like this zone bar called Fudge Graham, and she would always be like, activate Graham.

[11:31] Ben Rimalower: That's funny. Lucy, I love you.

[11:34] Daniel Nolen: Um, although I think she gave up on the pod a long time ago. It's more, it's more time commitment than she's got for us.

[11:40] Ben Rimalower: So did my mom.

[11:41] Daniel Nolen: So talking about our dicks too much, and she was out.

[11:45] Ben Rimalower: Oh, please. If I said that, my mom might join. My mom like did not even know we still do this. My mom has never listened to it.

[11:52] Daniel Nolen: Whatever. Screw you, mama.

[11:54] Ben Rimalower: My mom, my mom was—I know I said this, but my mom listened, loved the first episode with Mary, and as she said, I just love that Mary Tesla.

[12:04] Daniel Nolen: Well, Mary Tesla wishes she would be—she you think she would be doing that play in the basement.

[12:12] Ben Rimalower: Well, it's so—it's I love that we're talking about food. Barbra would be so proud.

[12:16] Daniel Nolen: She really would. My, I mean, that's literally half her concert banter. But um, my secret shame this week and last week, with every Amazon Fresh order I get, I order a whole entire Junior's cheesecake, which they offer on Amazon Fresh, and it takes me about three days to eat the entire thing.

[12:37] Ben Rimalower: Uh, usually I eat it while watching Golden Girls, and that is like, you know, you've stayed with me at Fire Island and we've traveled together. I'm not like a super like sweets person, but cheesecake, especially from Junior's, is my kryptonite. Like I will just eat, take a fork to the whole pie.

[12:57] Daniel Nolen: I'm so happy to hear that. I love like really skinny people that eat like fat people.

[13:03] Ben Rimalower: I mean, it's been my—it was really, really dark this week how I was consuming it. But like when you think that's dark, like when you in your like 22-inch waist are like digging fork first into this like entire Junior's cheesecake.

[13:20] Daniel Nolen: In your mind, what's dark about it? Are you like, oh no, my cholesterol's gonna be through the roof?

[13:26] Ben Rimalower: I think it's just I was already eating shitty, so I was like eating, oh, I'll eat these, this entire bag of spicy sweet chili Doritos, and then I'm gonna eat this cheesecake for a sweet thing. But I feel so horrible right now. Like I feel like I could die because my body is shutting down because I'm eating such crap.

[13:44] Daniel Nolen: But shutting down.

[13:46] Ben Rimalower: But I'm literally continuing to eat it. I think that that's the shameful dark part is that I can feel that it's like damaging my cells, but I continue on.

[13:57] Daniel Nolen: Um, so anyway, yeah.

[13:59] Ben Rimalower: Well, speaking of damaged cells.

[14:02] Daniel Nolen: Speaking of things that cause damage, Barbra Streisand.

[14:07] Ben Rimalower: Barbra Streisand. I know we debated—so I mean we've been debated which concert we wanted to do, but this was kind of the one we came to because it's one of the only ones that's available, and closest to the one we really wanted to do, which was the '94. And can we start off by saying, fuck you, Barbra Streisand, because of it?

[14:26] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[14:27] Ben Rimalower: Because yeah, who do you think you are? You know, when I am upset that like a Betty Buckley album that like she like paid for herself on like, you know, Sterling Records, like twenty-five years ago, that like I and like under 10,000 homosexuals on earth have ever listened to.

[14:44] Ben Rimalower: And I'm upset that that is not available to like not only, I mean, we say streaming, but it's not like you can buy it either. I mean, it's just not available. Um, you know, I feel like somebody needs to like swoop in and help poor Betty Buckley and her fans, you know. But like Barbara literally is the man, you know.

[15:06] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, Barbara Streisand literally had Steve Jobs on speed dial. I mean, it's like she, if anyone could get her material streaming or for sale, it's her. Like, why is that not a thing? I don't understand. What is her end game?

[15:20] Ben Rimalower: I honestly feel like it's just I mean, this is totally my own guess, but it's I feel like it's some sort of weird like, uh, control thing. Like, remember whenever Gaga's Star is Born came out and Barbara like released her Star is Born on Netflix for like two months and then took it back? Um, and she also released all of those, uh, TV specials for like a week and then she took them off. It's like I don't know, or maybe Netflix only paid for. I don't know how it works, but uh No, you just said it. That's what it is. It's not out there available.

[15:52] Daniel Nolen: I'm so sure that, you know, as part Netflix or who all these various companies, whatever, let's say Netflix is the one, because for example, we know that they have, um, uh what do you call it? Um, well, they pr no no, that doesn't count because they produced that. So okay, let's talk about the one we're watching today.

[16:11] Ben Rimalower: Today we're watching the 2006 concert. Which is by the way, if you're looking for the name of her various concerts and tours, this one was called Streisand. And um, it's the one with Il Divo.

[16:23] Daniel Nolen: Although 2006. I on tour in Europe, it was what they were called the Broadway boys, and it was podcast guest Michael Arden, and Hugh Pinero and Sean McDermott, and a guy named Peter Lockier, I think.

[16:37] Ben Rimalower: Um well, uh because I've been texting with the man that, uh, co-conceived and co-directed, uh this concert and many other Barbara concerts, Richard J. Richard J.

[16:49] Daniel Nolen: Um, but uh so anyway, uh but this uh okay, but so this this is available now and probably not for very long. If you uh via the prime video app, there's a you know, what do they have? Those prime video channels you can pay extra for.

[17:05] Ben Rimalower: Like um, uh what's the Broadway one that I love? Um wait, is it our thing, Broadway on Demand? No, it's something else. Broadway HD.

[17:14] Daniel Nolen: Broadway HD, yeah. So like so um there's a channel there, as there's many weird obscure channels you wouldn't necessarily think of, called, I don't know if it's pronounced Cello or Quello or Kello, but it's spelled Q E L L O.

[17:37] Ben Rimalower: And I think it must be Cello because a lot, it's certainly all music content.

[17:42] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[17:42] Ben Rimalower: And a lot of it is with, you know, not classical, but there's some classical music and there's this. You know, but there's also like Beyoncé and Lady Gaga. Maybe it's it's Q because if it's queer, because I'm just realizing a lot of it is stuff that people like us can enjoy.

[17:59] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, Quello watch it.

[18:01] Ben Rimalower: But I promise you that for their first of all, they obviously are willing to spend money because they have Beyoncé and Gaga and stuff, you know? And I'm sure it's for a limited release. So even if so, if they said to Barbara, look, you know, we have let's say 20,000 subscribers, and uh, you know, so this is what we're willing to pay you for a six-month streaming contract, and this is what we paid Beyoncé, and you're getting the same as her or something.

[18:30] Daniel Nolen: And let's say it's I don't know, just randomly, let's pick a number, 100,000.

[18:34] Ben Rimalower: She said, sure. You know, but like when iTunes says, you know, yeah, we want to release um your, uh, you know, 1994 concert to stream, and it'll be, uh, you know, 1999 to download, and you'll get 30% or 50% or 60%, you know, whatever the percentage is that people get for that.

[18:59] Daniel Nolen: She was like, you know, well, Quello's giving me, uh, you know, a hundred grand up front, you know, it's like yeah, yeah, yeah. Clearly, like there's so there, this is something she could make happen, but it's just why should she bother if it's not more money?

[19:11] Ben Rimalower: She would rather just hold on to it because it'll be worth more if we have to wait longer. But I think her calculation is wrong. Because all those people in this concert audience that we watched, a lot of them already had wrinkly faces in 2006.

[19:28] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah.

[19:29] Ben Rimalower: And they're watching her. And, you know, listen, I don't care if it's 2006 or 2016 or 2036, God willing, we should be alive still. I will still go to our Barbara Streisand concert and be like, oh my God, she's actually doing the as her encore, don't rain on my parade encore from the show, Funny Girl.

[19:52] Daniel Nolen: You know, but that's not what these people are thinking. These people are going, oh, I love when she sings The Way We Were. They played that at my prom.

[20:00] Ben Rimalower: And the number of people who The Way We Were was the theme at their prom is getting smaller every year.

[20:06] Daniel Nolen: You know, yeah, quickly dwindling.

[20:07] Ben Rimalower: And so those are the when those people are all gone, her price tag is gonna go down. And so she should take it now. That's my advice, Barbara. But anyway.

[20:26] Daniel Nolen: She knows how it goes.

[20:27] Ben Rimalower: But it's like, yeah, your value right now is super high because of those people.

[20:32] Daniel Nolen: Um, oh shit, hold on.

[20:34] Ben Rimalower: Okay, we're good. Um, and yeah, exactly what you're saying. I mean, thank God there are, you know, semi-young people like us carrying the torch.

[20:42] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[20:43] Ben Rimalower: But um, yeah, I mean, I then that's and that's a good segue because the thing that I love about, uh, her concerts when they're presented in their, uh, video form is that they really give you a taste of the kind of people who show up at a Barbara concert.

[20:58] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[20:59] Ben Rimalower: Yes. You know, I know I've seen her several times.

[21:02] Daniel Nolen: I've got to be.

[21:03] Ben Rimalower: If you say the kind of people we mean the Clintons Oprah, and then a bunch of middle-aged housewives, and then a bunch of middle-aged housewives, gay men.

[21:13] Daniel Nolen: Um, you know, uh, when we went and tried to see her at Madison Square Garden last year, literally just standing outside the doors refreshing uh StubHub, not able to ever get in.

[21:24] Ben Rimalower: Wait, but uh hold on, hold on, because that's literally the best story ever.

[21:29] Daniel Nolen: It is.

[21:29] Ben Rimalower: I mean, we were like, we're not gonna see Barbara. What happened?

[21:34] Daniel Nolen: We were like, Barbara's at Madison Square Garden. It wasn't sold out, and um we were like, we want to go, but we're not gonna pay over 100 or whatever.

[21:43] Ben Rimalower: Don't just I think it was even less. I think we were like not willing to pay more than 50.

[21:47] Daniel Nolen: I think it started out as that, and then when we got there, and like all the tickets were still like 250, 300. We're like, well, maybe a hundred for like orchestra, whatever.

[21:56] Ben Rimalower: But literally, we went to Madison Square Garden, which by the way is also known as Penn Station. And we like literally were standing there dressed up and you know, ready to see the show.

[22:09] Daniel Nolen: Seeing all of our friends who were going in to see it, hey Molly Crow, hey, Michael Sherlock.

[22:14] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[22:15] Daniel Nolen: Waiting right outside the gates to buy tickets.

[22:19] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I felt like we were, we could have made one of those little intro vids because all the types of people you see. I remember we commented, like, oh my God, we love uh we love seeing groups of lesbians there who love Barbara.

[22:32] Daniel Nolen: You know, they're wearing their giant Lea DeLaria XL Barbara t-shirts.

[22:37] Ben Rimalower: And under an under-discussed group of fans is Barbara's lesbian audience.

[22:43] Daniel Nolen: I mean, there's nothing that brings me more joy. So seeing all those people, of course, I saw like I saw like two men who I've slept with who were there with like their 70-year-old mothers.

[22:53] Ben Rimalower: I was like, oh, that's so sweet. I saw two 70-year-old men who I slept with who were there with their granddaughters.

[23:02] Daniel Nolen: So anyway, even though we didn't see her because we stuck to our guns uh even after the show had started, like we were literally asking the ushers, like, has she has she come on yet? Is it still the overture?

[23:11] Ben Rimalower: We kept refreshing the prices.

[23:14] Daniel Nolen: We were during the overture, so hoping it was gonna work out. The prices never went down.

[23:19] Ben Rimalower: And you know what? We did not, we did not budge.

[23:22] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I was like, We were like, you know what? We've seen Barbara. We saw her pretty recently because when did we just see her most recently?

[23:30] Ben Rimalower: Well, we saw her in her, uh, the music, the memories, the magic. And then we went to that talk she did with Patrick Wilson at the Winter Garden.

[23:40] Daniel Nolen: So those were like four years ago.

[23:42] Ben Rimalower: And and this, by the way, was one year ago, more than a year ago.

[23:45] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, so it had been like three years.

[23:47] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, so we were like, it's not our last chance. We've, you know, we just weren't, and it's a good way to segue too, because I want to say that, you know, I've seen Barbara many times, and and the first time I saw Barbara live was this concert that we're talking about now from 2006, although um I had never watched the video before.

[24:08] Daniel Nolen: But as you know, I um was going into this with a lot of anti-Barbara sentiment.

[24:15] Ben Rimalower: Uh, this is probably clear to anyone listening. But it's complicated, you know.

[24:19] Daniel Nolen: Uh, and and most of my anti-Barbara sentiment has to do with like her supporting Mike Bloomberg in like the presidential primaries.

[24:27] Ben Rimalower: Sure.

[24:27] Daniel Nolen: You know, and the and the sort of bigger picture of Barbara's um, uh sort of, you know, in my mind, insufficiently progressive viewpoint.

[24:37] Ben Rimalower: And yeah, you know, and that's and I don't want to get into like a cancel culture thing about it because it's not that, but it's just like, you know, it's a little bit offensive to me, like the stuff she said about like Michael Jackson's victims, like that at least they get to hang as a star.

[24:49] Daniel Nolen: You know, and I can't, yeah.

[24:51] Ben Rimalower: And by the way, you know, Daniel's like a full on, well, as my dad would say, a Bernie brother, you know.

[24:56] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, um, Daniel's like Daniel's a hard ass Bernie brother, but I am like a like Deborah Messing level basic liberal bitch.

[25:05] Ben Rimalower: So, like if you're not progressive enough for me, then like you're the problem, you know.

[25:10] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[25:11] Ben Rimalower: I mean, yeah, I mean, Barbara, and and hearing her in this concert, I mean, giving her little like unity speeches and talking about the Democrats.

[25:18] Daniel Nolen: I mean, back in the day, it was like Barbara was kind of this, uh, figurehead of of progress for the, uh, for the Democrats when it wasn't as popular to be an outspoken celebrity, but now it's just like that viewpoint hasn't evolved at all.

[25:34] Ben Rimalower: It's just like hardened in stone and and well, and it's especially sad because that's not even so much true of the Democrats anymore.

[25:41] Daniel Nolen: I mean, even just in the last year, exactly a leftward push.

[25:46] Ben Rimalower: I mean, you know, Joe Biden is espousing things, uh, that people were very worried he would be far to the right of in the primary.

[25:55] Daniel Nolen: And you see, you know, a much stronger progressive voice in the Democratic Party.

[26:00] Ben Rimalower: So, you know, where Barbara was once the voice of the left, you know, that the one of her best live concerts, which unfortunately does not exist on video, is that was it 1970 and 1972?

[26:11] Daniel Nolen: Forum.

[26:12] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, the forum, which was a benefit for, uh, was it George McGovern?

[26:16] Daniel Nolen: Um yeah, I think so.

[26:18] Ben Rimalower: My my United States history is so wonky. Um, which anyway, but um, so anyway, I had a big chip on my shoulder about that about Barbara.

[26:28] Daniel Nolen: Um, but uh, but I should have, but I did, and this was not the concert I wanted to watch because I wanted to do my favorite Barbara concert, which I did not see live, but which really changed my life on video and on the album, which is as Daniel mentioned, the 1994 concert, which is not available to watch, uh, anywhere for love or money, even though it was released for many, many years on not only on DVD, but on two different versions, because there was the one on HBO that I was in love with, which was from the Arrowhead Pond uh tour date.

[27:00] Ben Rimalower: And then there was the, uh, one that had been released more commonly, uh, on DVD and VHS, which was, uh, from the MGM Grand, which was actually her very first concert in, you know, uh, over 25 years.

[27:15] Daniel Nolen: Um, but um, you know, her first concert tour, but you know, the first live performance in like 20 years or I don't know, whatever it was.

[27:22] Ben Rimalower: It was she hadn't been touring. Um and uh, and that performance wasn't as good in my opinion as the one that's on the video from Arrowhead Pond or on the album from Madison Square Garden.

[27:32] Daniel Nolen: But but I did remember how much I loved this particular concert because when I went to see this in 2006, um one of the, uh, I'd never seen Barbara live before.

[27:43] Ben Rimalower: And I think the only other time I had been to Madison Square Garden at that point had been to see Bette Midler in her Divine Miss Millennium Tour.

[27:53] Daniel Nolen: And I was the first time I went to Madison Square Garden was to see Bette in the For the Girls tour.

[27:59] Ben Rimalower: Well, I think you probably saw a much better show.

[28:01] Daniel Nolen: Um, because I really did not like the Divine Miss Millennium Tour, and I didn't entirely blame Bet.

[28:08] Ben Rimalower: I partly blamed the fact that I had really, really, really, really, really bad seats.

[28:12] Daniel Nolen: And um, I felt like it might have been really a thrilling show at, you know, a much smaller cabaret style venue, like I don't know, Radio City Music Hall, you know, but like where there was some intimacy, you know, or a Broadway theater, or I mean, she's never gonna do like the, you know, fucking Cafe Carlyle, but whatever, you know.

[28:31] Ben Rimalower: Like I wanted to have, but seriously, Radio City would have felt so much more intimate than this was.

[28:36] Daniel Nolen: And and I just felt like really like so disconnected from her.

[28:40] Ben Rimalower: And the only time that I felt like her performance kind of was able to transcend that, and like I said, I don't eat I didn't even at the time uh blame her for that.

[28:49] Daniel Nolen: Uh, did you hear my phone ringing just now?

[28:51] Ben Rimalower: No.

[28:52] Daniel Nolen: Oh, good.

[28:53] Ben Rimalower: Um, it's not Bet Midler calling, it's Barbara Streisand saying stop the drink.

[28:56] Daniel Nolen: The only time that I felt Bet's performance had managed to transcend that, and I didn't necessarily blame her, but the only time that it came together for me was when she sang the amazing Stay With Me Baby The Rose, where she just went so balls to the wall that it filled the space.

[29:11] Ben Rimalower: So I went in to see Barbara live in 2006 with incredibly low expectations, and then I found myself completely blown away.

[29:19] Daniel Nolen: And oh, and but I should also say that I think of Bette as a much more dynamic and hardworking live performer than Barbara.

[29:27] Ben Rimalower: So I really didn't think Barbra was gonna make it work. But with Barbra, I realized it's something else. It's like having an audience with the Pope, you know, and literally when I saw her at this show, the Clintons and Oprah and all these celebrities were in the house, and I still didn't have very good seats, but it felt like being in the presence of an amazing, just, and the show was so laser-focused on her stardom, you know. And I even at the time, I don't think I was like close friends yet, but I knew Richard J. Alexander, who co-conceives and co-directs, and I love seeing that because it's only Barbra's ego that means he has to have co-conceived and co-directed credits. So funny to me. By the way, I'm not saying co-conceived and co-directs like he and, you know, Marvin Hamlisch, or like he and the photographer, like, or even like, you know, Donna Karan or like her producer or her manager.

No, co-conceives and co-directs with her. Like, where do you get off as a star doing your own show? Like, of course you're co-conceiving it. It's you that's credited, for God's sake. Anyway, but you know, with Barbra, that's part of her charm. I'm not actually mad about that. I've long ago come to love her for that. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, but watching this now even more than when I saw it live, I appreciate Richard's hand in it. And it's so brilliant. And because first of all, he's Richard is obsessed with stardom, and you know, yeah, and not, and while I think part of the genius of Richard J is that he's obsessed with an old school kind of stardom, and particularly obsessed with an old school kind of Broadway, but such a like current in real-time fame horror.

Like, I don't know that Richard J necessarily like watches the Kardashians, but he definitely like knows a lot about them and he watches a lot of that kind of like crap TV, you know. Richard is just plugged in at all times. I mean, it's almost like a psychosis with him, you know. His finger is definitely tightly on the pulse. And so, and he really so he really appreciates Barbra as a fan and then is able to channel that into creating this show for her. And it's so evident from the very beginning that it starts with the actual Ralph Burns orchestration of the, well, it's expanded though for this huge band. But for the, I assume it's expanded, certainly a big orchestra, but the original Funny Girl overture.

Yeah, which I is such a brilliant choice. It's so brilliant because it also, and I think it speaks to like a thing that's different about this as a turning point in Barbra's career, because it's her first show that he conceived and directed with her. I know that he took over as director on the Millennium show she did, Timeless, but he kind of inherited the show that she had put together and then had to just get it on its feet. But you know, and it's like it's I think prior to this, like when even that '94 concert, which I love so much, Barbra's like, hi, I'm Barbra. I'm a film star and an internationally acclaimed record-breaking recording artist. When I was young, I did work in the theater.

You guys wouldn't know about it. So let me tell you some stories, you know? Whereas Richard J is like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Funny Girl is the basis, it is the foundation of Barbra's stardom. And it's, you know, People is not just one hit on a list that includes The Way We Were and Stony End and like Love Comes from Unexpected Places from Superman. You know, People is the very like spine, the heart of Barbra Streisand, you know. And so starting with the Funny Girl overture establishes that and it's so important. And it's a great piece of music. It is such a great piece of music. It's so exciting that, like, and like in the, like I said earlier, like the intro with all the people you see, like Meg Ryan, Tom Hanks, Rosalind Kind, Bette Midler, Steven Sondheim, like all these people that we know, huge celebrities down to like her family who we know.

It's showing all them coming in and then interviewing, like, you know, the Florida man who's like, I once saw Barbra in the deli, and she had a bit of mustard on her mouth. Then I said, Ma'am, you know, northern women get offended when you call them ma'am. I said, ma'am, I just pointed to my mouth, and she thanked me. You know, it's like just every pops. And then there's like the dad who's like, I'm here with my kids. I just want to show my kids what good quality music is. You know, and then there's always like the lady who's like, I'm dying of cancer next week, and I'm here with the doctor's note. I came to see Barbra. It's like, I, you know, I hope she made it to intermission. Anyway, but it's like that.

She, you know, the thing about Barbra is that she is an international, you know, she's the best-selling female artist of all time, I think, and a huge movie star and course director. And so she has worldwide fame, and there's always people traveling. I mean, I've traveled across the country to see Barbra on her last tour. And so she's not just like, you know, someone else I would travel to see is like Marilyn May. But of course, no one else in the world. She's not, she's not a global movie star, so she doesn't have the same type of appeal, even though she has, you know, arguably just as good of talent. Anyway, so yeah, Barbra has this ability to bring everyone together because she's this huge star.

And so that little intro with the Funny Girl overture is just so thrilling. And then whenever she shoots up through that little elevator track door on the stage, and the spotlight hits her right as it finishes on that note, it's just like that moment really, really made me wish she would have gone on in Hello Dolly on Broadway, even for like two months, three nights a week, whatever, like that would have just been the end all being. There's just no way though. I mean, when you think about our discussion about like iTunes, like if like all Barbra would have to do in order for her 1994 concert to be available, somehow available, all she would have to do is agree to an amount of money to accept an already produced thing to then be work.

To think that she would go, let's not say eight shows a week, or sorry, Barbra and Bette and Bernard, you know, they all did they did seven shows a week as Dolly. Let's not even say seven shows a week. Let's say Barbra could do a five show a week schedule. Let's say she would only have to do it for three weeks. Can you, there's no amount of money that could possibly be enough for her to do that if she won't merely allow that album, that concert.

[36:14] Daniel Nolen: It's so true. I mean, you know, we could talk about this till we're blue in the face, but I mean, I like I recently reread my passion for design, and just like just the attention, if you want to call it that, to detail and just the tight reign she has on everything is very evident. So yeah, like you're saying, if she can't release that, then although I did hear rumors, which were probably just that, that she was in talks to do to close, she was gonna close Dolly and do three performances a week.

[36:49] Ben Rimalower: No, no, no, no. I think what they said was that she gave an ultimatum, it was like a seasoned assist that if Bette Midler didn't close, didn't go down to three performances a week, Barbra was going to close it. I can't remember which girl they wound up with. I think the ultimatum was that if Bette didn't do that, Barbra was gonna remake Beaches.

[37:12] Daniel Nolen: I okay, starting here, starting now. I pure Richard J. I mean, I mean I know that Barbra said when she sang that on, was it Color Me Barbra or My Name is Barbra?

[37:26] Ben Rimalower: Starting here?

[37:27] Daniel Nolen: Oh, I do not know. I think it's from one of the, it's Color Me Barbra, I think. It one of those TV specials, yeah, it must be Color Me Barbra, where at the end there's like a 20-minute, like, you know, sort of concert segment after it's been all this more like studio special sets and everything. And she sings it. Oh no, I'm not even thinking about. I mean, she did do that, and I love that so much. But she also sings it on the concert forum concert album. And she says, um that's right. Right, because she opens with Sing and Make Your Own Kind of Music. And she goes, Sing was my son's favorite song from Sesame Street. Here's my favorite song. Um, and so she said this is her favorite song. Nonetheless, I think that Barbra in 2006, I should have asked Richard J this when I was texting him a million questions. But I was like, I but I should, so I didn't ask him this. But don't you just kind of feel like this was Richard's idea?

[38:25] Ben Rimalower: I do not feel like in 2006, Barbra's thinking about this like obscure off-Broadway ballad that she did in the 60s, you know.

[38:33] Daniel Nolen: Totally, totally. Yeah. And I mean, that's the that's my favorite thing when she does that in all the 2000s concerts that Richard directed. She does the deep cuts, you know, and and really Broadway specific stuff. And that's those are all my those are always my favorite numbers that she does. Well, um, so I mean that, you know, it's a thrilling start because it's the combination of being like something that she can really, um it makes sense coming out of her. You know, there's some stuff that Barbra doing now, you know, and she's acknowledges it when she talks about why she did not really doing Stony End, she feels like she's too old, you know. But Starting Here, Starting Now, or too mature, as she says.

But yeah, too much. Starting Here, Starting Now, I feel like, uh, it you feel like actually I don't know whether it was Richard's idea or Barbra's idea, but even if it was Barb Richard's idea, if my fantasy that it was Richard's idea is true, I still feel like Barbra would have been like, oh, that's a very good song, and would have like listened to it. It feels like it's the vibe that she actually gets off on. Um, and it's start it the way the song builds, like you kind of always forget how big and vocally thrilling it's gonna be. And the way it lands in her voice in this mature state that she's in, at the beginning of the song, it sounds so sort of easy that you you kind of like aren't expecting her to start to be like, no, and it's like, oh shit, bitch.

[40:02] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah. And in 2000, I mean, uh, the first time I saw her was in Brooklyn in 2012, and then I saw the this most well, second to last the music, the memories, the magic.

[40:13] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[40:13] Ben Rimalower: And um, you know, now the voice is not quite there. And but here in 2006, it was still pretty much there. I mean, you can every now and then kind of hear the beginnings of the end. Yes, but but only in like a horse quality, not in any limit on the range.

[40:30] Daniel Nolen: Right, right.

[40:31] Ben Rimalower: And it's still very, you know, that classic Barbra brassy, uh belt. And and uh it's funny, I would never uh use the word brassy. Um, that's the wrong word. I was trying to think of it's not brassy, it's bright, maybe, or or uh it's just you know, it's that inimitable Barbra thing, Linda Eder comes the closest to it.

[40:54] Daniel Nolen: I'm so glad you said Linda Eder, because I was thinking about it a lot. Part of the problem with Barbra is um that it the way, like Linda Eder, she has such an effortless grasp on this like big belt, on this big belting sound. But it's the pro it's it it's like it only is convincing in a when the intention is very passionate. Like it doesn't make sense if you're trying to be casual. And it's like I'm trying to think, what was the song she was singing where this was like really bugging me?

[41:35] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I mean, so much of what she does when she does this bugs me. Like whenever she does that um for all we know at in the from the 90s. For all we know is like into the equivalent of that in this show, which was um this may be my shining hour. As soon as she started, I was thinking about you and me doing the pod, and I was like, I was like, good luck, Barbra.

[41:59] Daniel Nolen: I mean, yeah, this but but something like Starting Here, Starting Out, The Way We Were, The These numbers that she does that have that kind of build and it makes sense with the emotion of the song. It's like then when it finally gets to the end, she can do those big stress and riffy moments, and it makes sense and it sounds appropriate. You know, she's not like for all we know, we may never meet again. You know, it's like girl, it's not all for that.

[42:29] Ben Rimalower: I mean, the thing is like Barbra's voice has no chill, and like Barbra's personality is pretty much 99% chill.

[42:38] Daniel Nolen: Right, right, right.

[42:40] Ben Rimalower: I mean, yeah, and and then when I like when she uses kind of the um like I feel like in this concert especially, I noticed it for the first time. She she did, she made some like funny uh kind of acting choices where she spoke, spoke saying a few things, or it's like you know, I don't like in The Way We Were. I love it when in The Way We Were she's like, um uh would we sure, but oh would we know. I mean I like I like it when she does that. She can do whatever she wants, you know. But like, but I was thinking during The Way We Were, like, like would this song be uh like I mean it's a good song, but like I feel like there's a lot of like 70s movie, like syrupy like pop themes that are probably as good as The Way We Were.

Like I mean, this isn't 70s, like Valley of the Dolls or uh Well, but okay, but that's got I mean, this is kind of a little bit like um has cred because it's Marvin Hamlisch, and and maybe Valley of the Dolls has some cred because it's Burt Bacharach. But like, I don't know, I'm thinking about like movies that I don't really know, like Love Story and shit like that. You know, like I feel like all those movies had themes and they were sung by like random.

[43:58] Ben Rimalower: I mean, it's because we were oh, like we were talking on the live stream about Dion Warwick and like how like she's not necessarily like that much of like that emotionally or expressive in her in her singing.

[44:11] Daniel Nolen: Um and um, you know, in a way that's kind of true about Barbra too, you know, like it's you know, certainly like when Barbra sings "The Way We Were," she is not telling a story. Like, I don't care how many times she like breaks down like the melody or the rhythm to be like ah, but what you know, but she's she she's 100% thinking about like oh, the stage is a little bit wider than it was when we were in North Florida. And uh I'm thinking that I sh uh when I go down the steps, I'm gonna go on the right side instead, you know. Or, you know, not I mean, I'm sure that stuff's all rehearsed anyway, but like, but you know, you I just feel like you know, she's doing her like J-O-B, like, and it's not about like the story of the song, you know, and it's the sound of her voice that A is really beautiful, and you know, and and or you know, and can be very thrilling. And because this song means so much to so many people, it it takes this back, you know.

[45:10] Ben Rimalower: Yes, exactly.

[45:11] Daniel Nolen: And that's that's what I I felt that so much in these first moments of the show, especially the first half where she kind of gives you all the hits.

[45:19] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[45:19] Daniel Nolen: And that's how I felt, you know, this this last one that we saw, she opened with "The Way We Were." And it was like, oh bitch, here we go, you know. And and this is a song, this is a movie I love. This is a song not only we grew up knowing, but our parents grew up knowing. Uh and so it does kind of just create this intimate community experience, even though you're in like this, you know, basketball arena, yeah watching her. Uh and yeah, so it's just it's it's like you're saying, it's the audience with the pope type of thing. It's magic because it it creates this energy in the room, people who just eat it up, and um, but you know, this huge start in this thing, but then she's still which this is I die for this. I love it whenever she's like, Oh, hi, Anita, and like waves at people from the stage, like, oh, you look so pretty. Like, literally, she could have been, she could be doing this, like, you know, at Joe's pub or something.

[46:14] Ben Rimalower: I know, I thought the Q&A was absolutely brilliant.

[46:17] Daniel Nolen: Me too. And how the Q&A, I was like, I mean, she was literally calling out people who were waving from the audience. It was like, I was like, surely these are like, you know, uh uh what's the word? Some of them were joke setups. I mean, like playing the hookers was so good. She says, um, oh, uh, you know, Maj from Toledo says, uh, you played uh a hookah in um "Nuts" and uh "The Owl and the Pussycat." Uh, would you ever consider playing one again? And she goes, Well, I don't know, how much are you offering?

[46:55] Ben Rimalower: Yes, and even the ones where it was like um, you know, so and so row row 47, seat 15. You know, that one lady was like, I have a coton du tuye. Like, can we can she and Sammy make babies? And Barbra's like, Well, Sammy's a girl, you know, blah, blah, blah. So I don't think it's quite going to work, darling. But like she literally says, but nice try.

[47:17] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, but nice try. It's like she's actually pretty effortlessly funny.

[47:21] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[47:22] Daniel Nolen: Which knowing her habits of just having everything on the teleprompter and everything rehearsed within an inch of its life, she actually is, I found in this concert she was very gracious and grounded and off the cuff. Well, uh one of the things I think that has changed about her in these last 20 years is that she seems to get much more and more well, less and less uptight, you know, and to seems to be able to have more of a warmth and like uh sort of like a realness, you know, that that she I love that '94 concert so much because she's 50 years old or you know, 52 or whatever she is, and she still is 100% at the peak of her powers as a singer, you know, her formidable powers as a singer.

[48:15] Ben Rimalower: I mean, you can hate Barbra, you can think she's cheesy, you can think she's tacky, you can think she's lame, you can not like any of her music, you can find her personality offensive, her politics, whatever, you know. And there's plenty of reasons, good ones even to feel a lot of that, you know. But undeniably, like the instrument that she was there was one moment when she was singing um later in this this concert, one of my favorites was uh "What Are You Doing the Rest of Your Life?"

[48:41] Daniel Nolen: Oh, me too.

[48:43] Ben Rimalower: And I was just so astounded by the flawlessness of Barbra's vocal technique.

[48:48] Daniel Nolen: Like, yes, and you know, I and I understand that she has no training, but whether you have training or not, it clearly the way that she utilizes her throat and her lungs and her mouth and all that to put together to make music is exquisite. There's a there's a lyric um through all of my life, and um through all of my life, and the way the arrangement goes, it's like through all of my life, and it's like the wish like through my and the way that she opens that vowel on the through, yeah, is so artful.

[49:28] Ben Rimalower: And it's it's not and artful is not even the right word. I mean, it's true she has she has musicality, think about it. But it's but it's artful in the way that because she at no anybody else singing that, or most other people singing that would have to nav, and I'm not doing it justice because it's in a different place in my voice and I'm in the wrong key or whatever anyway, you know. Um but most women, if they were to sing that part, they would have to sort of uh have a very tight like ooh vowel in, you know, and you know, Barbra's arrangement calls for her to change that into a more open vowel, and and you know, that's why you often hear people being like, you know, or like thrill, you know, or throughout you know it's like and uh I'm looking at you, Louan.

[50:16] Daniel Nolen: But um, well, I you know, one of the things I always that with Patty and Gypsy that it's like, you know, when she opened the show, uh well, first of all, she was sick during previews, and so she had to do um uh nothing's gonna stop us till we're through. And then you know, and then she got her voice back. And when she opened the show in the beginning of the run, she was like, till we're through, you know, and then later in the run when she was like more over it, it was like till we're through. Yeah, honey, throw that ball. I mean, you're literally playing an Ethel Merman role, so I guess it's okay, but like, yeah, it's not what I wanted. You know, it's like Barbra, it's just like she knows how to have it both ways, and it's perfection. You know, anyway.

[51:01] Ben Rimalower: Totally.

[51:02] Daniel Nolen: But um she's so uns, you know, she has no training, but she has such a natural musicality. And that's something voice teachers always tell me. They're like, you, you know, any voice can be trained, but musicality cannot be taught. Like that's something you either have or you don't have. It's just what makes it that much more offensive when her choices are ugly.

[51:21] Ben Rimalower: Ugly, exactly.

[51:23] Daniel Nolen: Um, I mean, and like you said earlier, I mean, I am Barbra's my number one, hands down, but I still I still do find her uh lame, offensive, and cheesy, but that's how much the voice moves me, is that she is my number one, and and I, you know, cry I I mean last night when she sang "Funny Girl," uh last night and you watched it.

[51:46] Ben Rimalower: When I watched it.

[51:47] Daniel Nolen: Um I mean what do you mean she did that this morning? Um uh I mean I love that song so much, but just thinking about her doing it in the film and just hearing hearing the versions she does on the a movie soundtrack made me brought me to tears just thinking of that arrangement because it's so beautiful and her voice is it just you know takes you there.

[52:13] Ben Rimalower: So, you know, it's funny because I I have uh I've watched the first hour of "Funny Girl" probably 50 times.

[52:21] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, but I probably only watched the end of the movie like once.

[52:25] Ben Rimalower: Um I mean the first half is is where it's at. I mean, the only good great thing about the second half is the final number of "My Man."

[52:32] Daniel Nolen: Sure.

[52:32] Ben Rimalower: And like also is incredible.

[52:34] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[52:34] Ben Rimalower: Well, I just want to say one more thing about "Funny Girl" before we go to "My Man," which is that uh that song just worked for me. "Funny Girl," the song "Funny Girl," which was written for the movie and it's not in the show. And uh all through my years of CD collecting, I only had the Broadway cast album, not the film soundtrack.

[52:53] Daniel Nolen: So I really don't know that song, but of course it's a fucking Julie Stein song written for "Funny Girl," you know, and um for Barbra. So to sort of get to experience her doing that um in a way for me for kind of almost the first time, it was really special. And uh also I I did confirm with Richard that this was her first live performance of that song. It's not something she had ever done.

[53:17] Ben Rimalower: Uh right.

[53:18] Daniel Nolen: No, when she says that, she's like, she's like, I haven't, I haven't sung it since the film.

[53:24] Ben Rimalower: Um I love it so much, and and it's so heartbreaking. And and I love just the camera, it really gets close in on her face in all these kind of uh like this and an unusual way, all these kind of slower uh ballads. Uh she really just those blue eyes of hers and and the way she uh I guess acts the song.

[53:44] Ben Rimalower: Well, and in the and then in the second act, her gold eyeshadow was giving me life, mom.

[53:49] Daniel Nolen: Yes, honey. Yes.

[53:51] Ben Rimalower: Um okay, wait.

[53:53] Daniel Nolen: So "My Man."

[53:55] Ben Rimalower: Well, first of all, I want to talk about "Come Rain or Come Shine" really quick.

[53:58] Daniel Nolen: Oh, good.

[53:59] Ben Rimalower: I have not skip them for time's sake, but but I but but I want to hear what you have to say about it.

[54:04] Daniel Nolen: Well, I just want to say, first of all, I'm glad that uh uh we had some wet representation in the show.

[54:10] Ben Rimalower: Um that's when she's uh changes her outfit.

[54:14] Daniel Nolen: I mean that really, I you know you like that album.

[54:17] Ben Rimalower: God.

[54:18] Daniel Nolen: What?

[54:20] Ben Rimalower: You were insinuating that I made a dirty joke.

[54:23] Daniel Nolen: Oh, no, no, no, no.

[54:25] Ben Rimalower: Uh but you know, I hope the listeners are with me. Otherwise, that was a bad discourse.

[54:30] Daniel Nolen: Was it was it a joke about being wet?

[54:32] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, you said um the album wet, and I said, I said, I know, I know you like some wet, and then you I thought you laughed, but maybe you just clean cleared your throat.

[54:42] Daniel Nolen: Oh.

[54:43] Ben Rimalower: Uh but I didn't mean that. I meant I know you like that album, is what I'm saying.

[54:47] Daniel Nolen: I do, I do.

[54:49] Ben Rimalower: My what's one of my favorite songs? It's like the last one.

[54:51] Daniel Nolen: It's um no, that's "Superman."

[54:55] Ben Rimalower: What's the last one in "Wet" I love?

[54:56] Daniel Nolen: Um, "After the Rain."

[55:03] Ben Rimalower: So pretty.

[55:03] Daniel Nolen: But I love that uh that she does "Come Rain or Come Shine." Also, I'm wondering if that was a Richard choice.

[55:09] Ben Rimalower: Because it's uh sure. There's no way she remembered that.

[55:12] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I was like, I don't, I cannot imagine her pulling this song from "Wet."

[55:15] Ben Rimalower: But that's when she changes outfits to my favorite outfit of the night, which is very Liza Manelli. It's the black.

[55:20] Daniel Nolen: I said it's it's like if Lululemon did a drag race challenge where you can only use things found in Liza's closet.

[55:29] Ben Rimalower: Yes, totally. Because the first half, I hated the outfit she started with because it was it looked like a, you know, you got it from like a New Jersey shopping mall. It was like rhinestones and all that jazz. I don't need that. And then the second one, I like the little Egyptian gold number more uh more than the first one, but this uh Liza pantsuit is really was really giving me life.

[55:50] Daniel Nolen: So she comes on singing a famous Judy song in Liza's outfit.

[55:54] Ben Rimalower: Um, and I loved it.

[55:56] Daniel Nolen: Okay, continue.

[55:57] Ben Rimalower: Um I mean, uh yeah, okay.

[56:01] Daniel Nolen: I mean, I need to listen to "Wet" some more because it's always been a Barbra album that I pretty much ignored, except for obviously um "No More Tears." Um and um obviously it has that album belongs in my life in the same way that lots of the uh sort of bet thighs and whispers kind of tracks do, you know.

[56:21] Ben Rimalower: Um but I I have never gotten into Barbra's version of "Come Rain or Come Shine," but what I wanted to talk about about that, which I was gonna skip, but now we're talking about it, was I, you know, it's funny, I I feel like I don't get that song in general. I mean, I love the Judy version, but the Judy version is like so not about the song.

[56:39] Daniel Nolen: Right, right.

[56:39] Ben Rimalower: I mean it's about it's about something else. But it is. It talks about like a drug, and the drug is called Dexadrine. Um it's amazing. But like, but I, you know, like it's never my favorite song. I mean, I guess I really like Patty's version, but it's like, but it but the pad, but no Patty performance is actually about the song, so that doesn't count either.

[57:00] Daniel Nolen: Hello.

[57:00] Ben Rimalower: So I I it's like I I to me it's a little bit like, okay, you're warmed up. Good job.

[57:06] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[57:07] Ben Rimalower: Uh I mean, it's not my favorite song either, but I uh I was glad it was included. And then she does "Music That Makes Me Dance," which I was a little blue-balled because I wanted the entire song and she only did a little bit of it. But then she goes into "My Man," which I mean, is this the greatest belt song ever written? Like this song is actually I think like the voice for this.

[57:28] Daniel Nolen: I think it's like the apex, the the what's the right word, the nucleus, the germination of like Barbra's actual genius.

[57:37] Ben Rimalower: Because she takes this like Fanny Brice song that she is able to give all the Fanny Brice ness in the world. Like, I don't I mean, I, you know, I I don't think anyone who likes the old school, like Zigfeld follies kind of thing would find anything lacking in Barbra's ability to deliver that.

[57:57] Daniel Nolen: I mean, it's almost like the whit like Whitney doing Dolly's "I Will Always Love You." You know, it's like she takes it to a whole different strata.

[58:01] Ben Rimalower: And then it goes to a whole other stratosphere. Because I'm where Barbra, it's it's a great analogy, Daniel, because I mean, Barbra fully lets it have everything it was supposed to have originally. And then when she kicks it up into high gear, it it becomes modern in this way. And it gives her the chance to do what she does better than anybody, you know. And I mean, it I don't think you can find any Barbra fan anywhere who wouldn't count this on their list of their top 10 or even top five or a fewer favorite Barbra tracks, you know? And and I remember this from Madison Square Garden Live so well because I was having this great experience watching her be this presence in this room and be so regal and stately and ethereal, and I was very captivated.

[58:53] Ben Rimalower: And then this song came in and I had legitimate goosebumps, you know.

[58:56] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I mean, when she hits that note, it's like, honey, the money note is there and it's here to stay.

[59:01] Ben Rimalower: Yep, yep.

[59:02] Daniel Nolen: Um, you gotta, you know, a little taste of that in uh Starting Here, Starting Now. But here she gives it to you without there's you just it's just it's everything you could want.

[59:12] Ben Rimalower: Well, and it's just the way it's written, it's like, you know, um ba-ba-buh ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. Oh my man, I love it.

[59:21] Daniel Nolen: And then at the end, it's like just sustained belt note after belt.

[59:25] Ben Rimalower: Oh, open vowel, more. It's it's just so satisfying. And and and I mean, listen, I have done this song probably more than any other at like straight Williamsburg karaoke bars when I first moved here.

[59:40] Daniel Nolen: And I guarantee you know the Williamsburg karaoke bar is definitely a contradiction in terms.

[59:46] Ben Rimalower: Like, well, no, like trash bar or like alligator lounge, like those kind of like weird hipster bars, but like definitely not gay bars. But I would always do this song, and like no I, you know, maybe a couple people knew uh the what it was from or whatever, but there is something about this song that just singing it in karaoke, it gives you life because it's just it feels pleasing to sing it because of the way it sits in your voice.

[1:00:09] Daniel Nolen: Well, it's also a great song because it it is a story song, but it's not like one of those like modern like Jason Robert Brown story songs that's like you have to like follow it, you know. This song like takes you. Everybody knows, you know, it's literally called My Man, you already know what it's about, you know?

[1:00:23] Ben Rimalower: Totally and the lyrics are so just like cold and wet.

[1:00:26] Daniel Nolen: I feel you.

[1:00:28] Ben Rimalower: Told and wet, tired, you'll bet. And I love I love uh also because like you were saying earlier with the Richard J. Funny Girl side of things, this moment is arguably what won her the Oscar.

[1:00:42] Daniel Nolen: You know, the moment that the acting she does in this moment at the end of the film where she, you know, they wanted her pre-record it, she said no, I'm gonna do it live, at least this intro bit. She cries.

[1:00:52] Ben Rimalower: Uh it's it's beautiful, and then the film ends, and it's uh da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Uh, and and and that's something you know, we've all cried too watching that moment. And and that's a very important uh moment in her film work as well.

[1:01:09] Daniel Nolen: Speaking of that, I think I can officially say that my favorite version of the song People is every time the orchestra plays it and she doesn't sing it.

[1:01:22] Ben Rimalower: You know, like she's like, thank you, you've been a wonderful audience. Done.

[1:01:27] Daniel Nolen: I literally not only get hard, I will like impregnate the nearest hole immediately when I hear like that is my kink, you know.

[1:01:42] Ben Rimalower: And yeah, and the only thing better than that playing and her not singing is that playing while she's finishing singing a different song.

[1:01:51] Daniel Nolen: Like we're gonna be like, like, forever, that is everything.

[1:02:01] Ben Rimalower: It's like the Judy, it's like it's like the barber version of the Judy, like totally, totally.

[1:02:11] Daniel Nolen: I mean, Barbara, you know, but it's funny because when I hear Barbara with that have that moment with people, or um, or Judy had that moment with Over the Rainbow, you know, or to take it down to a more human level, Patty have that moment with Don't Cry for Me, or God help me, Luann have that moment with Money Can't Buy You Claw.

[1:02:35] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, thank you. Um, but like it's uh, you know, I I always I think well, it's about the singers, you know, iconic hit, right?

[1:02:45] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:02:45] Ben Rimalower: And and um, but it's funny because there's this Barbara Cook concert moment that I love so much in that way, even though it's absolutely not that. In her um uh concerts in the late 80s and in the early mid 90s and stuff for a while. She used to sing this song um called uh in between Goodbyes that was written for her.

[1:03:11] Daniel Nolen: Um God, now I can't remember for sure, but I think the music is by Wally Harper, who was her um musical director and arranger, and the lyrics were by um David Zippel, uh, who wrote City of Angels and uh a bunch of other things, including um a lot of special material for Barbara Cook.

[1:03:30] Ben Rimalower: But this song was not a song she was known for. I mean, she uh the only recording she made of it was at the end of the 10 year period when she was singing it, you know. It's not like something that was I mean, but even you know, obviously Barbara Cook is a lot more niche than Barbara Streisand, but like even in the Barbara Cook niche, this is not one of her like go to's, you know.

[1:03:52] Daniel Nolen: Um but uh but she would sing, it's called In Between Goodbyes. So, like many songs about goodbye, and this was written for her for that purpose. It's a great way to, you know, a sort of sentiment to leave the audience with at the end of the evening.

[1:04:07] Ben Rimalower: And so uh she's singing this song, and the way she would do it is it was she would sing the song, and it the way the song is actually written to be is she's like it it's sort of the same thing, keeps getting repeated and like modulating a little bit. In between goodbyes, I know exactly what you're gonna say.

[1:04:29] Daniel Nolen: She gets to this point where she stopped singing it and it modulates again right after the last word was out of her mouth, and in a very big, brassy way, higher and bigger and more with more orchestra behind it than it had been, you know, two seconds earlier when she was singing it.

[1:04:49] Ben Rimalower: And as that's still playing, you don't know if she's gonna sing more or what's happening, because she just the she hasn't walked off stage or anything.

[1:04:58] Daniel Nolen: And she goes, Thank you so much. It's so wonderful to be back in London. I do want to come back. I hope you'll have me back while the orchestra is like going nuts with this brassy.

[1:05:08] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, and it's like, yes, and it's the most exciting thing in the world. And it's not like they're playing vanilla ice cream or like something from the music man or whatever, you know. Like it's literally like you just heard it for the first time.

[1:05:21] Daniel Nolen: So I I don't know what my deal is, but I love it.

[1:05:25] Ben Rimalower: No, those moments, I I I feel you. Those moments are so uh goosebump inducing and and just thrilling. Uh, and and one more thing about people is it's a hard song to sing. I mean, I've never really liked any other person's version of this song.

[1:05:41] Daniel Nolen: Uh obviously Barbara was the first to sing it. I mean, from what I I remember reading somewhere that she wanted it cut from the show because she didn't like it at first.

[1:05:49] Ben Rimalower: And you know, Julia Stein was like, you can sing people or you won't be singing this show at all. But um, obviously it ended up working well for her.

[1:05:57] Daniel Nolen: But she she's the only person I enjoy hearing it here. I she's the only person I enjoy singing it. I this is a hard song for anyone else to sing, and it's not one that I love listening to, although I do love the song and her version of it.

[1:06:09] Ben Rimalower: Um I will say the only version I've ever heard uh that I like besides Barbara is um Julia Murney from that Actor's Fun Funny Girl concert.

[1:06:21] Daniel Nolen: Oh yeah, hers is good, hers is good.

[1:06:22] Ben Rimalower: It's funny because like it's Funny Girl is like got so many great songs in it. And in that version of Funny Girl, that was an actor's fun benefit that Seth Rudetsky put together on Broadway with all these different stars. It was uh Caroline Carmelo and Adina Manzel and Whoopi Goldberg, you knew Earth and Kristen Shannon with and Sentin Foster, et cetera, etc. Lilius White, um, you know, they eat they each took one scene with the with one song in it, you know.

[1:06:50] Daniel Nolen: And if I were one of them getting that put while that show is being put together, the last fucking thing on earth I would have wanted to do was people.

[1:06:58] Ben Rimalower: Because if you sing any other song in Funny Girl, even the songs that are hits, like even like Don't Rain on My Parade, you know, it's a Barbara hit in a sense, but it's not like a pop hit. You know, it's people is really in the category of like the way we were and Evergreen.

[1:07:15] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I mean, there's a single on the album People, yeah.

[1:07:19] Ben Rimalower: So it's like, and it's and the and also, as we you were just saying, it's in a way, it's not that it's a very hard song to sing, and it's kind of not that great of a song, you know, like I, you know, uh what the one you just mentioned that she that was replaced by My Man in the movie, the song Um The Music That Makes Me Dance, is one of the great Broadway ballads, you know.

[1:07:42] Daniel Nolen: 11 o'clock now right now.

[1:07:43] Ben Rimalower: And you can't find a diva in the sort of Broadway, like old school pop um nexus who hasn't covered that song, whether it's Judy or Liza or Marilyn May or Linda Edder or Edie Gourmet, or like literally everybody has sung that song, you know, because it's a great song. And when people, when you hear that song, partly because it wasn't in the movie, you know, you don't think like how do they hold up to Barbara? You know, you just hear a person sing the story of that song and make the music.

[1:08:12] Daniel Nolen: Whereas people, you're only ever comparing them to Barbara.

[1:08:14] Ben Rimalower: So it was really impressive that Julia Murney was, you know, arguably the highlight of that whole Funny Girl concert. But certainly she did kill it.

[1:08:20] Daniel Nolen: Certainly one of them. And anyway, but uh, but this is a very good version of people because of two things that I really love about it. One, which is Pure Richard J. She starts with the Broadway intro.

[1:08:30] Ben Rimalower: We travel single O. Which A is like wonderful and old school and fun and all that. But also it saves us having to hear her work the word people into a sentence.

[1:08:43] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, we're all just mmm, people. So that is just like a blessing.

[1:08:48] Ben Rimalower: And then I don't care what I say or what you say or what anybody says, she can vote for Mike Bloomberg all she wants. When she goes, I get so happy.

[1:09:01] Daniel Nolen: Wait, what what?

[1:09:02] Ben Rimalower: At the end. That she doesn't go, oh, and the world.

[1:09:09] Daniel Nolen: Oh my god, that's my life.

[1:09:11] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, and she does the movie thing from the movie where she's uh people who need people. She does that little riff, which is just delicious.

[1:09:20] Daniel Nolen: I can't, I I would really love it if someone would do a breakdown on YouTube, preferably where they have all the clips of like all the different ways she navigated people.

[1:09:31] Ben Rimalower: Because like that. We should it really like you kind of have to do your own thing to make sense of that melody at the end. Like, or let's put it a different way, Barbara did her own thing, and so therefore nobody actually knows how it's supposed to go.

[1:09:49] Daniel Nolen: Exactly.

[1:09:49] Ben Rimalower: I mean, my other my my truly favorite version of the song is the single version, which she doesn't do that on. She just goes, People who need people, and she just kind of lets it fly, which is so beautiful.

[1:10:03] Daniel Nolen: But um, when I hear her do that now, when I hear her do it that way now, it's not as thrilling.

[1:10:09] Ben Rimalower: So I actually now prefer her doing the people. Um, and then yeah, at the end, in the whee.

[1:10:18] Daniel Nolen: So good.

[1:10:19] Ben Rimalower: So then that's okay. Then that's the last song of Act One, correct?

[1:10:23] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[1:10:24] Ben Rimalower: Okay, so of course, you know, I lived for her weird little intermission walk and then the dog and all that.

[1:10:30] Daniel Nolen: That dressing room.

[1:10:31] Ben Rimalower: That dressing room, which is just smoking mirrors. I mean I mean like the burgundy chairs she had like flown in from Laura Ashley. Clearly, Barbara's tour.

[1:10:40] Daniel Nolen: I mean, I'm sure a lot of stars are like good for her, but it's cool that you get to see like clearly there's just like a bunch of like curtains and curtain racks and things that are done so that it feels the same to her wherever she is.

[1:10:51] Ben Rimalower: Totally, yeah.

[1:10:53] Daniel Nolen: As as uh Sharon McKnight said to me in Province Town at one time. I think it's just a room and some curtains.

[1:11:00] Ben Rimalower: Uh okay, so opening act two, the my least favorite part of the night where she sings music.

[1:11:07] Daniel Nolen: I I literally realized it was music of the night, and I was like, I wrote down uh if you're gonna sing music of the night, I have a couple questions for you. Number one, are you currently, as I'm watching you in real time playing Phantom in the show Phantom of the Opera?

[1:11:23] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[1:11:24] Daniel Nolen: If the answer to that question is no, my next question would be are you Michael Crawford? If the answer to that question is no, then my answer to you is don't sing it.

[1:11:34] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah, how dare you.

[1:11:36] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, so that one just and I don't like, I don't like it when she does little like group numbers with the guest stars. Like, no, no, no, no, no, thank you.

[1:11:45] Ben Rimalower: I thought I felt that way until a little bit later in this show, but I I certainly was with you at this point.

[1:11:51] Daniel Nolen: Um I love I love when she um this okay, now this starts my favorite section of the show.

[1:11:57] Ben Rimalower: 100.

[1:11:58] Daniel Nolen: I love it, first of all, just uh Mama Rose when she's like playing Jason's music, and she's like, isn't it pretty? Just so funny.

[1:12:07] Ben Rimalower: I love so hard.

[1:12:08] Daniel Nolen: I did crack up when she's like, as many of you know, my pride and joy is my beautiful son Jason. And I was like, I I do not know that, but come on.

[1:12:16] Ben Rimalower: I literally did not know what she was gonna say.

[1:12:18] Daniel Nolen: Like my pride, I literally thought she'd be like, My pride and joy, my beautiful uh Laura, my beautiful girl Sammy, who's laying in the dressing room in the back.

[1:12:26] Ben Rimalower: 100% that is what I mean. I was like, okay, all right, I'll I'll allow it.

[1:12:31] Daniel Nolen: So she starts that, and she's like, give gave this song to me for my birthday, blah blah blah. As many of you know, my pride and joy is my beautiful son.

[1:12:38] Ben Rimalower: Oh, one second. Can you scroll to the next page of the telephone, please?

[1:12:43] Daniel Nolen: Jason.

[1:12:44] Ben Rimalower: I couldn't see what it said.

[1:12:47] Daniel Nolen: That's so funny. Um, it's like he has a chamber orchestra on his throat. He's just so gifted.

[1:12:53] Ben Rimalower: Um, anyway, I uh but he looked good he looked good. Like the the little clip they showed of him before the show, I was like, okay, like who knows? Maybe he's uh he and one of those Ildevo boys are are hooking up.

[1:13:06] Daniel Nolen: Anyway. If not then, then certainly with one of those Americans on the Broadway tour.

[1:13:11] Ben Rimalower: On the European tour. Um, so then starts my favorite section of the show, it's which is where she does like the the balladdy Broadway numbers.

[1:13:22] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:13:23] Daniel Nolen: And um, "Children Will Listen," arguably my least favorite of Sondheim's big songs. I don't really like that song. But when Barbra does it, I kind of like it because she already tends to be a little preachy, and so this song kind of allows her to do that in like a tasteful way.

[1:13:39] Ben Rimalower: But you've got to be carefully taught was really too far in like. You've got to be carefully taught. I mean, children were listening. It's funny because I continue to feel ever since Bernadette was forced to sing that untenable arrangement in the original production that like it's not it that song is like waiting for somebody to like grab it and really make it their own. And the only person that ever did was really in my mind Betty Buckley, who didn't get to keep it because it depended on a lot of factors like the Harlem Boys choir and it being a medley with a different song for it to have that, you know, there's no way for her to excerpt that and recreate that. Um but I actually think that when Barbra did it in the more recent tour, the one that we saw anyway, in 2016, uh, I think I remember thinking, oh, now it's really working for me.

But here in 2006, it was still not really there for me. It's a little too like she's sitting in that chair, I kind of don't buy it. And it like it's like if you're there really like if this is so important that we listen to you and like take this message about like how to like raise our children so they like grow up okay, then I need you to like stand up and mean it a little more, you know.

[1:14:56] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talking about raising her kid. I that was a little unbelievable.

[1:15:01] Ben Rimalower: It was unbelievable though. Also, I and this is not just Barbra's fault, but it's re and you know I love me some Stephen Sondheim. But if the person that is crafting the message about being a parent is Sondheim and Barbra. Somebody, well, and and Barbra, so somebody else needed because they say, How do you uh how do you chat uh something saying to your child? Only whatever you put in its head.

[1:15:34] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it's I I I am I was like, what? And you know, now maybe because I'm living in like the 2021 woke world where we now accept without any question that um trans people can have the they pronounce so we've changed that rule in English because we needed something, because obviously you're not gonna call trans individuals it, you know.

[1:15:59] Ben Rimalower: Right. So, but in this era, and this is not even 2006. I mean, Sondheim wrote these lyrics for Barbra in 1993. Um it uh, you know, there was no sense of what a trans pronoun was, certainly not like that. Um, so maybe correct English was your child is an unspecified gender. Correct English is it. But I really I mean, people get mad when you refer to a pet as it. There's no way that a parent would say, you know, and maybe you could argue well in character as the witch, it makes sense, but ain't no part of Barbra that's like, let me play, you know, it's not like Patty being like the show is ragtime, the role is mother.

[1:16:43] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, that's not what's happening. The show is ragtime, the role is Maren's part. I mean, but what you're saying is so true. As I was watching this, I was like, why didn't they just say they there? Only whatever you put in their head, like that wouldn't have even seen I mean, maybe it's technically grammatically incorrect, but that wouldn't have stuck out to me, you know.

[1:17:03] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Um it's terrible. Because it's saying, How do you say to a child? But I don't know whatever you put in their head, it's like that seems fine to me. If you're Ruthie Henschel, the other person that has sung this arrangement, and you are like have just swallowed a bottle of pills and like are about to be hospitalized for like loving your children too much. Like I don't even know if she has kids, but like, you know, if you're Ruthie Henschel, uh, you don't have to worry about the lyric making you seem unfeeling. You're very feeling, I know.

[1:17:35] Daniel Nolen: Right, right, right. But like if you're Barbra, you gotta be careful.

[1:17:39] Ben Rimalower: You have to be careful. I um uh so she thinks that, and then the next song is one of is probably maybe I don't know if it's my favorite, but it's one of my favorite.

[1:17:49] Daniel Nolen: One of 100%. Unusual way.

[1:17:53] Ben Rimalower: Holy shit. I love it so much. Um it's in that sweet spot for this is the best place for Barbra to be, the best vibe. Because it's um it's it's pop, but it's highbrow pop. So it's like because you know, Mori, it's from Nine, written by Maury Yeston, a composer with sort of classical uh background, you know. I mean, he's written song cycles for Pavarotti and stuff, you know. He's not like a Broadway hack. He's somebody with like a classical music weight to him, you know.

[1:18:29] Daniel Nolen: Same like the next song that I love so much, she sings um, What Are You Doing the Rest of Your Life? And um, that also, you know, it's Michel Legrand, you know. It's like where it when Barbra's in in that um highbrow classical, uh, highbrow pop, that is the place where the um obviously her voice is uh too modern and like of like 20th century pop to be like a serious classical instrument, even though I enjoy um classical Barbra very much.

[1:19:03] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, me too as well. You know, but that but that's not that was never gonna be her genre, you know. But her voice is so um, it's such a serious piece of instrument, if that's the right way to phrase it, that um it's so big that it needs things that allow for that classical heft because it sounds cheesy when you have all that voice on sort of smaller music because she doesn't really know how to like be a casual singer, you know? And so it the right the perfect sort of marriage for that is when it's this sort of highbrow classical, and it made me it made me really want her to sing um, and it's interesting because a lot of modern musical theater in the last 20 years, there's was that whole people, the Adam Gettles and the Michael John LaCusas, who all sort of had a classical music sort of pedigree.

And so it made me really want Barbra to sing for something from Light in the Piazza. But then I thought, but you know, I just pushed the I you know, I'm not the biggest fan. I know y'all love Light in the Piazza. To me, that stuff is like slightly Philip Glass-ish. It's like not quite sort of melodically simple enough to really like have like the Broadway quality that I want. Like I don't end to the dissonance. Like, you know, I I don't get off on what Victoria Clark is singing, and it's not my favorite Kelly O'Hara performance, you know. But I was like, oh, you know what he should she should really sing though, is um Scott Dividing Day.

[1:20:33] Daniel Nolen: Oh yeah.

[1:20:35] Ben Rimalower: And I mean it's up from from Grey Gardens and from uh War Paint. And then Scott Frankel was in this audience giving her a standing ovation for really or Have I Stayed Too Long at the Fair? Which is just so gay and so exactly the kind of music that we're talking about. By the way, I want to give Richard J full credit for Barbra singing um Unusual Way, and for Barbra singing Have I Stayed Too Long at the Fair, and for Barbra singing What Are You Doing the Rest of Your Life.

[1:21:04] Daniel Nolen: Totally.

[1:21:05] Ben Rimalower: Totally. All those are my favorites. Now that you said that about Barbra, I mean, I'm like, if they ever make a movie of Light in the Piazza, like, even though again she's way too old for it, like I want Barbra to be um the Margaret part. Um something else about speaking of the of Margaret Johnson, I think a lot of these songs like Unusual Way, and I remember the last show I saw with her, she sang my favorite, Losing My Mind.

[1:21:30] Daniel Nolen: Me too, which is so crazy, but I really did feel that way. But I think you know, the thing those have in common, and something she's really good at is uh playing kind of the lover, the scorned lover roles, or kind of the other woman roles. It's like all of her film roles are like that, you know, Funny Girl, The Way We Were, uh, she kind of plays uh you know, the ugly duckling or or the girl who gets the guy in the end, but she doesn't think she will, and Unusual Way and Losing My Mind, and some of these other songs, I think allow her to kind of go to that place character-wise and kind of be that uh you know woman scorned is the phrase that comes to mind. But like whenever she's acting Unusual Way and Losing My Mind, um I'm like, I can feel it, and I'm it's convincing to me. Because she knows what it's like to be that person.

[1:22:24] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:22:24] Daniel Nolen: And also, and and I think that um even if she's not acting in the song, it naturally suits the sort of impassioned aesthetic of her singing voice.

[1:22:37] Ben Rimalower: Yes, for sure. Um like her voice kind of sounds like that even when she doesn't want it to. So a song where that's exactly what it should sound like, it's perfect. And but Unusual Way and um Losing My Mind are great examples too, because they're songs that are um they're very vocally taxing. And on Broadway, they're most often sung by sopranos. And as great as they may sound, it doesn't have that pop accessibility and conversational quality. But when you have Barbra singing it whose voice is pure pop, it's it's in a way, I mean, it's it's in a way it's sad to say, because I to some extent I respect the artists like Barbra Cook, you know, um, that I've heard sing those songs more than I respect Barbra in that way, you know. However, those particular songs, Barbra, the quality that Barbra just naturally brings to it kind of makes it the best version of that song.

[1:23:41] Daniel Nolen: Yes, totally. Um she has to get in, of course, her little like I love the truth section. Um dispelling false rumors, all that, which just makes me laugh.

[1:23:53] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:23:54] Daniel Nolen: But um, and then okay, so then Stoney End, she kind of sings a bit of which I couldn't tell if that was if that was uh random or not, like if that was planned or not, the Stony End bit.

[1:24:05] Ben Rimalower: Um it was planned. I mean, I would think that that's one of those things that is like they can guarantee in an audience of 10,000 people, there's gonna be a few QA's asking for Stony End.

[1:24:15] Daniel Nolen: Right, right. Uh then she talks about the Democrats, of course, and then she sings Happy Days Are Here Again, which I have to be honest, don't love this song by itself. You know, if it's the duet version, great. But I don't just love hearing this song sung straight through.

[1:24:30] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I mean, in a way, it's like my thing with Children Will Listen, where when you've heard a song so brilliantly combined with a different song, yeah, it's like you kind of just don't want it by itself. Always seen as a little naked. But you know, this is the one that uh in some tour dates, or at least in New York, she did it with like a guy wearing a George Bush mask, and he did the the Judy Garland thing.

[1:24:55] Daniel Nolen: Oh my god.

[1:24:55] Ben Rimalower: And um they did like a whole routine, and uh somebody got do you not remember this? Somebody got offended.

[1:25:02] Daniel Nolen: No, I knew this that she was like disrespecting the president.

[1:25:06] Ben Rimalower: And so she said, why don't you shut the fuck up?

[1:25:09] Daniel Nolen: Oh, of course, of course, of course. I always I always I've heard the don't you uh why why don't you shut the fuck up? But I always forget that that's where where it is in context.

[1:25:18] Ben Rimalower: Speaking of memes, that was like the first meme.

[1:25:21] Daniel Nolen: It was me meme me mo Rose. Me, me and St. Louis. Nope. Me, me and St. Louis.

[1:25:27] Ben Rimalower: Um I the thing I that drives me crazy about Barbra in concert, I don't like how she talks back to the audience. I don't like how she allows that. You know, I mean I think you be Barbra and I'll be the audience, okay?

[1:25:44] Daniel Nolen: I love you.

[1:25:45] Ben Rimalower: Anyway, oh, thank you so much.

[1:25:47] Daniel Nolen: Um else is like, I love you too.

[1:25:52] Ben Rimalower: Liza's like, leave your phone number at the station.

[1:25:56] Daniel Nolen: I'm lonely sometimes.

[1:25:57] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, Les, thank you. Thank you for caring. Barbra's literally like, oh, isn't that nice?

[1:26:02] Daniel Nolen: Literally.

[1:26:03] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I'm I'm coming over to you next. It's like she's like, by the way, I'm coming over to you next means like all I'm thinking about during this song is the fact that in 14 minutes I have to walk down those three steps and across the page eight feet. And trust me, I'm more stressed out about it than you can imagine.

[1:26:20] Daniel Nolen: Literally, yeah.

[1:26:26] Ben Rimalower: Literally, like half the time she's getting applause, she looks annoyed. Um, and then and then the end of intermission, she won walk into her dressing room, she's like, oh, I forgot how long it is to this dress, how far it is to this dressing room. Um anyway, so then, yeah, that annoys me how she just always replies to them. But it's like that's so Barbra. It's like she hears fucking everything. Like someone could whisper to their friend, like, oh, she sounds great, and she'd be like, Oh, what was that, darling? Oh, thank you. It's like she can't not say anything, you know, it's just like not in her personality to like let something go by ignored.

[1:26:59] Daniel Nolen: But what's funny is that it only happens during the songs because during the patter, she's paying attention and reading it off the teleprompter, and there's nothing spontaneous going on. But during the songs, she's bored and hears whatever they say.

[1:27:14] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I do when she when she uh talks to the audience, or you know, when she's singing What Are You Doing the Rest of Your Life, she uh points to those people in the audience, she's like, Oh, like like you two. I mean, I love when she does that because it's so like old school cabaret, like she could literally be doing this at the duplex, uh, as opposed to like this giant arena. So I like when she does that because it makes it a little more, it makes her seem a little more human and friendly.

[1:27:38] Daniel Nolen: I mean, it just goes back to the number one rule, which is always have good seats.

[1:27:38] Ben Rimalower: Always have good seats. Uh so then she sings, Have I Stayed Too Long at the Fair? Brilliant, brilliant. Then comes the fucking Unity speech. Um, then Cock Eyed Optimist, which I really did like this arrangement. You know, it's this is not a favorite song of mine, but whatever arrangement it was, it worked for her and it made it more exciting.

[1:28:02] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I I love this song, and I liked this arrangement a lot, like where it got to. But I think like typical Barbra, the arrangement was like a little too much, and in a way, like I thought it kind of kneecapped her.

[1:28:16] Ben Rimalower: Because like there's like the transition, you know, she starts out like um uh how does it start? Um when the sky is a bright canary.

[1:28:27] Daniel Nolen: But she's like, but you know, on Broadway or whatever, that you know, Sutton Foster sings it, it's like you know, it just you know, but Barbra's like, when the sky is a bright canary, yellow.

[1:28:42] Ben Rimalower: And like, so then when it gets to the part where it needs to like tur take a turn and go into the rhythm of like, I hear the human race has fallen. Instead, there's like this boom papa lead-in.

[1:28:56] Daniel Nolen: So she has to wait. And then when she comes in, she has to then race to like catch up with the energy of this arrangement that's already like bigger than she is.

[1:29:04] Ben Rimalower: And she doesn't get there until halfway to the end, you know. And then she does, and it's like a big exciting ending. But it's like if the arrangement just kind of respected the fact that the song is already going there, I think like the energy that would have been more, I don't know what I'm talking about. I felt like it just was like, it wasn't Barbra's fault. That arrangement kind of like made her like actually less compelling.

[1:29:25] Daniel Nolen: I hear what you're saying. I mean, though I will the the theater songs I want Barbra to sing, I don't ever want her to sing Rogers and Hammerstein. I only ever want her to sing like a standard type song from like the olden days, or like a Sondheim one that she can sink her teeth into.

[1:29:40] Ben Rimalower: Well, apparently she only knows South Pacific, so you don't have to worry about it.

[1:29:44] Daniel Nolen: It's very true. Um, speaking of, so next is another song that I would be, you know, I don't need to ever hear again, which is Somewhere.

[1:29:52] Ben Rimalower: It's just never really done it for you.

[1:29:54] Daniel Nolen: Especially the way she does it.

[1:29:55] Ben Rimalower: See, I feel the opposite. Like, I, to me, Somewhere is in several sweet spots of Barbra's. Like, it in a way, it's like um that thing of like the like losing my mind and Michel Legrand, and um uh what was the other one we were talking about? The sort of with the classical heft to um, oh like with unusual way, where it's like this, because it's Leonard Bernstein. It's like, you know, it's Broadway, so therefore it's pop, but it's also has that sort of highbrow Leonard Bernstein thing, you know?

[1:30:32] Daniel Nolen: And and and it's the song that is sung by Sopranos on Broadway. And when you get Barbra singing it, it gets to be like this like real belt. And unlike Barbra trying to be like cool and pop in like her 80s albums, like Barbra is a contemporary of Leonard Bernstein. I mean, she's actually younger than him, but you know, but like therefore he's not too hip for her. So Barbra actually can like take that song, you know.

[1:30:57] Ben Rimalower: And I don't necessarily need the like space age, like crazy sounds of the arrangement that she had, like on the Broadway album. But like when she sings it in concert, you know, and kind of like my man, too. Like it gets to go into that, like just like you know, almost like Chaka Khan, kind of like just like Barbra, like thrilling, like disco belt place, you know, um that just makes it like such an anthem for me in a way that it isn't when some girls like some we know, and like and it really um, and where I mean, god, I don't want Il Divo in this show, you know.

[1:31:34] Daniel Nolen: Like, I just don't and however, in Somewhere, I love having them there because they actually save Barbra the trouble instead of her being like somewhere, somewhere, somewhere, somewhere, somewhere, there's all like she just everything I do is either Liza or Fiddler on the Roof.

[1:31:55] Ben Rimalower: Um Liza in Fiddler, it's my career. But uh, but you know, she just gets to go somewhere, and then they go, Somewhere, somewhere, somewhere, you know, like soprano alto, tenor bass parts.

[1:32:09] Daniel Nolen: Right, right. They hit it on, and it I just and I thought it was really thrilling them filling in in between her vocal lines and just that much bigger and that much more. I was really, I thought that was the highlight of the whole thrilling concert.

[1:32:24] Ben Rimalower: Well, I'm glad you thought so. I mean, obviously, many people love it because that's how she closes out basically every show.

[1:32:30] Daniel Nolen: Um, I just I don't I've never really liked that song, and especially the way she does it, it's just so like heavy-handed.

[1:32:38] Ben Rimalower: Well, I definitely tune out, like when Barbra's singing that song to me, it could have it. The lyrics might as well be happy birthday.

[1:32:45] Daniel Nolen: Oh, I have definitely not like, yeah, Barbra gives me hope for what the world could be.

[1:32:51] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I cannot know that. But the something else she does that really annoys me is when she does like she just kind of goes into like summarizing the plots of all her movies. And I mean I don't like it when she does it with Yentl. I don't like it when she does it with Funny Girl. I and then if I don't like that, I certainly don't need her to summarize the plot of West Side Story for me or Romeo and Juliet.

[1:33:12] Daniel Nolen: That is something that I didn't know. So West Side Story is about this cleaning lady.

[1:33:20] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I'm just like, we don't need you to tell us about the Capulets, the Montagues, the I can't remember her name, so let's call her Maria.

[1:33:28] Daniel Nolen: Let's call Maria. Um, yeah, I'm just I I don't I don't need that from her. So anyway, she does that. Uh then of course, I guess for the encore, she does Don't Rain on My Parade.

[1:33:41] Ben Rimalower: I do not like all the lyric changes she the special material does.

[1:33:44] Daniel Nolen: No, it's not special material. It's the encore version in the sh not the encore, you know, it's the finale of the show.

[1:33:50] Ben Rimalower: Oh, okay. So it's not a good one.

[1:33:52] Daniel Nolen: Well, kid, that's life in the theater. It's so great. It's the it's the end of the show, and it's a perfect bookend because she starts with the overture.

[1:33:59] Ben Rimalower: I guess I know the movie one more. I don't think they do it in the movie. But um I wish she would just do the regular version. You know, I wish she would just do the regular uh song, Don't Rain on My Parade.

[1:34:11] Daniel Nolen: I mean to me the great thing about Don't Rain on My Parade is that like it kind of doesn't matter which version you do. It doesn't even matter if instead of doing Don't Rain on My Parade, you all you instead choose to do I'm the Greatest Star because they all have the exact same bridge climax.

[1:34:28] Ben Rimalower: Like it's like it's not like anyone has like less in its like bag of tricks. Like they all get, you know.

[1:34:36] Daniel Nolen: Um Yeah. I mean, I actually do love uh I'm the Greatest Star more than Don't Rain on My Parade. But anyway, that's for another time.

[1:34:43] Ben Rimalower: Well, I'm the Greatest Star then has other things that Don't Rain on My Parade doesn't have.

[1:34:49] Daniel Nolen: Sure.

[1:34:49] Ben Rimalower: But like, but it but there's but it doesn't lack anything that Don't Rain on My Parade does have.

[1:34:55] Daniel Nolen: Yes, totally.

[1:34:56] Ben Rimalower: So then she brings Sammy on stage, which I mean this moment of this of the show is just so funny to me. Like she brings the dog on, and then he's like, uh, she wants to like run away. And when the dog starts running, Barbra on the mic is like, Renata.

[1:35:10] Daniel Nolen: I was so excited about that. Renata's literally just like posted up at the stage door or at the at the door to the stage, just like intercepting the dog.

[1:35:20] Ben Rimalower: I was sad that Sammy left though because I was really interested to watch Sammy, and I really have a question about dogs and like dog psychology. Like the dog knows the dog is in an enormous space, right?

[1:35:35] Daniel Nolen: And the dog knows that there are like thousands of people very close.

[1:35:40] Ben Rimalower: Yes. But does the dog know that's any different than just being like in Times Square, like Madison Square Garden, uh, you know, uh Penn Station? Does the dog know that like they are in like the focus of attention or something?

[1:35:53] Daniel Nolen: Or like does the dog can the dog not tell that? I mean, I do not know.

[1:35:59] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I feel like the dog knew something was going on because he was like deer in the headlights, and you know, I feel like if it would have just been like a crowded thing, like, you know, he could I mean that's kind of what he did was kind of run away. But I I I do feel like Sammy, you know, knew something was going on because Barbra wasn't acting normal to her.

[1:36:18] Daniel Nolen: You know, she wasn't acting like she does backstage when she gets on her feet and like kisses her and or sorry, gets on her hands and knees and kisses her and and rolls around with her and hugs her. She was literally like clutching her while she's singing on the mic with these bright lights.

[1:36:31] Ben Rimalower: I mean, Sammy had to know something was off.

[1:36:33] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[1:36:34] Ben Rimalower: Oh, also Barbra had Sammy in a very uncomfortable position.

[1:36:39] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I know. I was like, poor Sammy's having to like she's standing on her back legs and then having to like prop herself up. Like, why didn't Barbra just put Sammy on Barbra's lap?

[1:36:49] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. I mean, I was really wondering like, do you th do you think she does that every night? And if she does, do you think Sammy ever like took a shit on the stage?

[1:36:59] Daniel Nolen: You know, Barbra would not have allowed that.

[1:37:02] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, that's a really good question. We will ask Richard J, who by the way offered to call in, but I was like, not so sure.

[1:37:09] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, we really need we really just needed space to like live our truth today.

[1:37:13] Ben Rimalower: Yes, we did. Um anyway, so the yeah, I died with that where she's like Renata, of course, of course she travels with her.

[1:37:20] Daniel Nolen: And then, of course, the um the final song, Smile, which don't always love to hear it, but I loved this moment.

[1:37:30] Ben Rimalower: I I liked when she sang it. I was over it.

[1:37:35] Daniel Nolen: I mean, me, like bar like that, I hate that album.

[1:37:39] Ben Rimalower: And like it's which album is this one?

[1:37:42] Daniel Nolen: Like, movie, was it the movie partners?

[1:37:45] Ben Rimalower: No, it's before that. It's it's it's early. All the I don't know, all these fucking like easy listening like inspirational music she's been doing for the last 20 years, like really turns.

[1:37:56] Daniel Nolen: And I love this song. I love when people sing this song. Of course, the number one version I love is Judy's because Judy's really has balls.

[1:38:04] Ben Rimalower: Ugh.

[1:38:05] Daniel Nolen: But like, but it I don't even need it to have balls. I just love when people sing this beautiful ballad. But Barbra's really puts me to sleep.

[1:38:13] Ben Rimalower: I I mean, this was I was watching this, it was like 10 p.m. So maybe I was ready for that. To me, this only works if I feel I can be comforted by the words coming from the person singing.

[1:38:25] Daniel Nolen: Oh yeah, Barbra's certainly not gonna provide that.

[1:38:27] Ben Rimalower: No.

[1:38:28] Daniel Nolen: Um like I would literally rather anyone else sing this song to me.

[1:38:33] Ben Rimalower: Like Jackie Hoffman could sing it to me, and I do. Even if like Donald Trump sang it, I feel like not that he would like love me and want me to smile, but like he might want me to like shut up and smile, you know.

[1:38:44] Daniel Nolen: Like, like at least it would be kind of a note.

[1:38:47] Ben Rimalower: It's literally from the movie Gaslight, so there you go.

[1:38:50] Daniel Nolen: It would literally be gaslighting me.

[1:38:52] Ben Rimalower: Is it really?

[1:38:53] Daniel Nolen: Isn't it? Am I making that up?

[1:38:55] Ben Rimalower: I don't, that's not a musical.

[1:38:56] Daniel Nolen: No, it's not a musical, but it's it's from a Charlie Chaplin film.

[1:39:00] Ben Rimalower: Oh, that's not Gaslight then. That's um something else.

[1:39:04] Daniel Nolen: He didn't direct Gaslight.

[1:39:06] Ben Rimalower: Oh, he did.

[1:39:07] Daniel Nolen: That's Angela's first movie, right?

[1:39:10] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:39:11] Daniel Nolen: Hold on. I didn't know I'm gonna be I'm getting our intern on this right now. Um Gaslight movie.

[1:39:17] Ben Rimalower: Oh no, Smile's not from that.

[1:39:18] Daniel Nolen: I can now I'm remembering. I was like, I don't I cannot this is from a movie with the title like Modern Living or something.

[1:39:24] Ben Rimalower: Oh, okay.

[1:39:24] Daniel Nolen: But oh modern modern times.

[1:39:26] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, right, exactly.

[1:39:28] Daniel Nolen: Uh I was like, gas is like a suspense movie. I don't yeah, modern times is a Charlie Chaplin movie.

[1:39:33] Ben Rimalower: Did Char but Charlie Chaplin did not direct Gaslight?

[1:39:36] Daniel Nolen: Um Gaslight was directed by I'm really hoping you say yes, so I don't feel like a total.

[1:39:44] Ben Rimalower: No, George Cukor.

[1:39:45] Daniel Nolen: Just absolutely directed the women famously.

[1:39:49] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[1:39:49] Daniel Nolen: Full circle though, Char uh Barbra obviously starred with Sydney Chaplin, Charlie Chaplin's offspring in Funny Girl on Broadway.

[1:39:58] Ben Rimalower: And Sidney Chaplin's.

[1:40:02] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[1:40:04] Ben Rimalower: There's some connection. Now I can't remember what the relationship is, but Saul Chaplin, who wrote the additional song I Have Confidence for the movie of the Sound of Music. But I don't, I think he might not have actually been related.

[1:40:21] Daniel Nolen: Now I can't remember. Such a good song.

[1:40:24] Ben Rimalower: I was actually thinking about that song recently because I was uh I was watching Rebecca Luker clips, and I was watching a club of her singing I Have Confidence, and I was like, oh, they must have added this for the revival because it wasn't in the original show, right?

[1:40:42] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[1:40:42] Ben Rimalower: I love that. I love that song. Actually, that's on my YouTube playlist, Ben's Best of Becca.

[1:40:47] Daniel Nolen: That should, you should put that in your show, that song.

[1:40:49] Ben Rimalower: I know it would be a good song for me, right?

[1:40:51] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:40:53] Ben Rimalower: Um I know we're at the end because my next note is Yay Mary Wicks.

[1:40:53] Daniel Nolen: Yay, Mary Wicks.

[1:41:01] Ben Rimalower: I have one email draft that is for all my um QuaranStreams notes. So we've gotten to the end of Barbra, and that was.

[1:41:09] Daniel Nolen: I was like, I was like, Mary Wicks wasn't in the audience, was she?

[1:41:13] Ben Rimalower: I know she was in White Christmas. She was way dead by then.

[1:41:15] Daniel Nolen: That could be a plug for our last episode on trimming White Christmas.

[1:41:19] Ben Rimalower: Everybody should listen.

[1:41:21] Daniel Nolen: Everyone should listen. I uh it literally got way more downloads after Christmas than before.

[1:41:26] Ben Rimalower: I mean, of course, we released it on the 24th. But um it's you know, it's the it can be listened to year-round.

[1:41:33] Daniel Nolen: It's cold enough right now to be Christmas. I'll say anyway.

[1:41:37] Ben Rimalower: Anyway, um, I'm glad we finally did Barbra. I mean, like I said, it's complicated. Uh, I love her, but we we hate some of her choices, we hate some of her politics, but uh the greatest star, truly.

[1:41:50] Daniel Nolen: Truly.

[1:41:51] Ben Rimalower: Once in a generation talent.

[1:41:53] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[1:41:53] Ben Rimalower: Okay, we'll sign off, and then we'll do our other things.

[1:41:56] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[1:41:56] Ben Rimalower: Uh everyone can.

[1:41:58] Daniel Nolen: Some people have to tinkle.

[1:42:00] Ben Rimalower: Certain me as well. Uh, tune in everyone to our return to uh the internet this uh this Tuesday at 12 noon Eastern time.

[1:42:12] Daniel Nolen: And we'll I'm sure we'll be talking more about Barbra then.

[1:42:15] Ben Rimalower: Bye!

[1:42:16] Daniel Nolen: Peace.

[1:42:23] Daniel Nolen: For more episodes, visit Broadway World, iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever podcasts do be.

[1:42:29] Daniel Nolen: This episode was edited by me, Daniel Nolen.

[1:42:31] Daniel Nolen: Thanks to Emmy-winning composer and lyricist Lance Horn for the broken records theme song.

[1:42:36] Ben Rimalower: Follow us both, Ben Rimalower and Daniel Nolen on all y'all's socials.

[1:42:40] Ben Rimalower: That's Ben Rimalower, B-E-N R I M A L O W E R.

[1:42:46] Daniel Nolen: And that's Nolen with an E, not Nolen with an A.

[1:42:49] Ben Rimalower: Because Nolen with an A is an A.