This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Ben Rimalower: Broken records.

[0:03] Daniel Nolen: The albums you wouldn't shut up about.

[0:06] Ben Rimalower: Broken records.

[0:07] Daniel Nolen: The music our guests can't live without like Judy.

[0:10] Ben Rimalower: Barbara.

[0:11] Daniel Nolen: Liza.

[0:12] Ben Rimalower: Bent.

[0:12] Daniel Nolen: Batty.

[0:12] Ben Rimalower: Audra, Bernadette.

[0:14] Daniel Nolen: We broadcast this podcast with hopes that someday we might get Patti LuPone.

[0:25] Ben Rimalower: Broken wreck, broken wreck, broken wreck, broken wreck, broken wreck.

[0:32] Ben Rimalower: Welcome to Ben Rimalower's Broken Records on Broadway World Broadway Podcast Network and Broadway on Demand. I am your host, Ben Rimalower, here with the loveliest of lovelies, Daniel Nolen.

[0:48] Daniel Nolen: Thank you. Hey y'all. We are so excited to be celebrating not just Gypsy and all the mama roses of the world, but our 50th anniversary of Broken Records.

[1:01] Ben Rimalower: Happy 50th, Daniel.

[1:03] Daniel Nolen: What is that? Golden?

[1:05] Ben Rimalower: Sure. Our Goldstone anniversary.

[1:08] Daniel Nolen: Yes. Good, good way, good way. Good way to get in. Um, I just wanted to check in with you and see how you're coming along on your tincture journey.

[1:19] Daniel Nolen: Oh, my tincture journey. Well, I have to say, almost too well, because the other night I took the sleep one and I put a few drops of it into the warm water and drank it before bed, like the instructions say to.

[1:36] Ben Rimalower: Yep, I take that build sleep, that build Dr. Anna Gold number seven. I take that every night now. I sleep like a baby. I sound like a baby, but I also took it in addition to my usual cup of chamomile tea and melatonin.

[1:51] Daniel Nolen: Never mix, never worry.

[1:53] Ben Rimalower: So, yeah, I woke up the next day fully not aware of where I was, what century it was, or what my name was. And that's truly how I want to sleep every night. So it's been really good. I highly recommend the build sleep. I'm just wondering where all my usual pee is going. I am sleeping so well. I just get through the entire night every night.

[2:18] Daniel Nolen: And I’ll tell you one thing, I do not miss going to the bathroom at five in the morning every day.

[2:25] Ben Rimalower: And um, I the first night that I was on it, first couple nights, I would wake up having to pee so badly.

[2:33] Daniel Nolen: Uh-huh.

[2:33] Ben Rimalower: But now I don't. I mean, I do pee in the morning, but like a normal person, not like somebody who's in an emergency situation.

[2:43] Daniel Nolen: Well, yeah, it's like I guess when your body is in like a lighter sleep, you are more aware of like, oh, my bladder tells me I need to pee, so I'm gonna wake up. When you're in deep sleep, you know, it doesn't even matter.

[2:54] Ben Rimalower: That's interesting. Well, it also might be that I have definitely—and the bottle that is going the fastest, no question. I've been hitting up the balance, that's number 11.

[3:04] Daniel Nolen: Oh, yes, I didn't get that one, but I need to get that one.

[3:07] Ben Rimalower: It is a good one. It improves mood and calm. And um, I just, you know, I mean, I'm really turning into the Ayurvedic homeopathic version of my old addict self.

[3:22] Daniel Nolen: Oh my god, that should be your character, like your sketch comedy character.

[3:27] Ben Rimalower: Because you know, I love to take my CBD drops.

[3:30] Daniel Nolen: Oh, yeah.

[3:31] Ben Rimalower: And um, I don't know if they really give me like marijuana level anxiety because.

[3:36] Daniel Nolen: I can hear it clinking right now.

[3:39] Ben Rimalower: I can hear the clink of the drop of it. It's not.

[3:43] Daniel Nolen: But um, like I really can.

[3:46] Ben Rimalower: Or maybe it's your straw or something. I can hear something on glass.

[3:49] Daniel Nolen: I'm not doing anything on glass, I swear.

[3:53] Ben Rimalower: I wouldn't mind, it's just the crack pipe.

[3:55] Daniel Nolen: It's just the crack pipe.

[3:56] Ben Rimalower: Um, but that's plastic. Um, but uh so oh, so I take my—I the experts say that the CBD does not have THC, and it should not be giving me any of that kind of mental high of pot. It just relaxes me, but it’s so that I can like, you know, just kind of like chill out, feel good in my body, muscle tension.

[4:19] Daniel Nolen: But sometimes it does give me a little bit of that like stoned paranoid anxiety.

[4:26] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, it gave me that when I took it, you know, and um, you know, not paranoid like I'm gonna get arrested because CBD—well, pot is legal in New York now too, but I mean CBD is certainly legal, but just like I just get a little like anxious, but no more. I take the bow, it's like CBD has replaced my pot, and the balance tincture from Dr. Anna Gold has replaced my booze.

[4:50] Daniel Nolen: So instead of having my like frosty Sauvignon Blanc, I just have a few drops of the balance tincture in the warm water, and I just like melt into the couch. I just could not be happier.

[5:01] Ben Rimalower: That sounds divine. I mean, that makes so much sense because I whenever I took all that CBD with you on the beach, and I felt so stoned and paranoid on the beach, I just started chugging beers, and then I felt better, you know.

[5:18] Daniel Nolen: But if only I would have had her.

[5:19] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, if only I would have had some balanced tincture by Dr. Anna Gold. Well, she's—I hope that everyone listening, especially people that are having sleep issues, because that is really a game changer. Um, they should all go to Dr. Anna Gold. She's an old friend of mine who is—um, I said she's a witch. I mean, I don't think that's officially true, but she's certainly a good witch as far as I'm concerned.

[5:41] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it's a compliment.

[5:42] Ben Rimalower: Um, she's a doctor of East Asian medicine, specializing in women's health pain management. So, of course, as women in pain, you and I would respond so well to her teaching.

[5:52] Daniel Nolen: Yes, honey, I am a woman in pain.

[5:55] Ben Rimalower: That's my sound. But she combines the Eastern and the Western diagnostic methods, and I think that's maybe why these are working for me in a way that other things just have not, you know. Um, and also now it's been a couple weeks. I mean, I kept waiting in the beginning because I've had a lot of things—like I know you love to take Benadryl to sleep. But I'm trying to wean myself off, so this has helped for sure.

[6:18] Daniel Nolen: But I mean, for me, Benadryl works for like three days and then not anymore, you know.

[6:23] Ben Rimalower: It stopped working as well for me.

[6:23] Daniel Nolen: Me too.

[6:26] Ben Rimalower: But I'm two weeks in on this, and I am a sleep machine. My mom said that I haven't slept this well since I was 18 months old.

[6:34] Daniel Nolen: So yeah, well, I think it's interesting that it's called build sleep, because I actually forgot it a couple of nights and I still slept the same.

[6:44] Ben Rimalower: I think it like, I mean, according to what the website claims, I feel like it actually is like training my body. Like the way you would train like an infant. Like, no, sweetie, now is the time for sleeping. Don't wake up.

[6:58] Daniel Nolen: Yes, yes.

[7:00] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, and you know, she says to take a little bit after dinner and then take some again before you go to bed. So it's like, it's like the COVID vaccine, you know, it's like teaching your molecules to like, you know, respond before the next one.

[7:14] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, like build back better.

[7:15] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Um, um, I'm glad that we are both so well rested because I know that today's pod is going to be a city. I have made for myself like a little craft services station. I just have like a line of beverages. I have some Coca-Cola, I have some water, I have some polar seltzer water, I have some kombucha, my new favorite watermelon kombucha.

[7:43] Daniel Nolen: Um, and then I have a whole fridge full of other shit that I might have to raid. But um, yeah, I am locked, loaded, stocked up, and ready.

[7:52] Ben Rimalower: Well, for anyone that does not know what we're talking about, today's episode is more than a month. I guess it's really two months in the making, that we have been doing hashtag Roses and Daffodils, where we are creating a Spotify playlist called Roses and Daffodils, which will be all the mama rose songs from Gypsy sung by different actresses who have played the role on the major recordings of the score from the different Broadway productions, as well as the um, not too long ago London production with Imelda Staunton and um, the Bette Midler TV version.

[8:34] Daniel Nolen: And we've been doing this poll every week where between Twitter and Instagram, we have gotten people's opinions.

[8:44] Ben Rimalower: So I have all those results pulled up for the top three and four from each song. And then Daniel and I have really like a bride and groom before the wedding. We have not discussed how we feel about each of these.

[9:01] Daniel Nolen: And so it really has been hard. We've edged. We've really saved it.

[9:05] Ben Rimalower: I feel like, yeah, I've been edging. It's like, yeah, tonight's our wedding night, and I'm ready to get nasty.

[9:11] Daniel Nolen: Oh yeah, bitch. Um, well, I just want to say, first of all, um, to all the people out there um that were voting that I realize you have a choice when choosing your mama roses, and I thank you for choosing Patti LuPone so often. We know we thank you for your loyalty.

[9:33] Ben Rimalower: Um yeah, you could choose any mama rose, and we're actually going to have a mama rose diamond status voter pretty soon. I mean you get to vote early. It means so much to me. I mean, Patti is not my choice for every single one of these songs, but so many people were voting for her, and that is my love language. And yeah, I just—it really meant a lot to me.

[9:57] Daniel Nolen: But I also found that I really am in like a deep place in the psychology of who voted for who.

[10:06] Ben Rimalower: Yes, yes, especially like on Instagram, you can see exactly who voted for which lady. And it's been so fascinating to me because it's not always, you know, someone chooses Angela or Patti across the board or whoever. They really do the work. I think the people who vote for the same person on every single song have kind of missed the point of the whole thing.

[10:28] Daniel Nolen: Right. Like the whole fun is not to do that, you know.

[10:31] Ben Rimalower: You know, the only thing that I'll say when I've been trying to find the empathy for them is like imagine if you will, like old man Ben Rimalower in like the year 2058, and there have been several more Broadway revivals of Anything Goes, and they've all been cast with people in the Sutton Foster mold. And then I will be there going, God damn it, it's Patti LuPone. It should only be Patti LuPone. I don't want to hear about any of these other people, you know?

[11:11] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, for sure.

[11:18] Ben Rimalower: Well, and we need those old queens because I mean, not as much Angela, but you know, the OG Rose, uh, Ethel Merman was really just underperforming in a lot of these. But we had a lot of vocal proponents of Ethel who were coming forward and kvetching about it on Twitter.

[11:36] Daniel Nolen: They were kvetching, which I appreciated, you know. We need to know. The new generation needs to know.

[11:42] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. I mean, I just—I really feel for those Angela fans from the 70s, because it's like I imagine how they feel. I mean, they had Ethel Merman there, you know, and she was considered untouchable in the part. And then lo and behold, this like completely surprising thing, this transformative landmark casting of Angela Lansbury, and um, you know, who was really an actress, you know, and could just bring so much nuance and choices to the role in this way that um, I mean, I think it's unfair, you know, people talk about Ethel Merman as if she weren't an actress.

[12:22] Daniel Nolen: Right, right.

[12:26] Ben Rimalower: But on the actual text itself, I think, you know, she acted very dazzlingly, and I constantly found myself in this process more into her than I would have expected myself to be. But still, I get how Angela like rocked their worlds in that moment. And you know, and then they had Tyne Daly come along, who I guess kind of like as far as like physical and personality type, she's more like Merman, but like the kind of performer that she is is more like Angela.

[12:55] Daniel Nolen: An actress, yeah.

[12:57] Ben Rimalower: You know, and um, I just understand, you know, all the permutations that um, that that's gone through, and how yeah, you can understand why people would be so polarized on, you know, in these different moments, and you know, and I think I already told you this, that something that surprised me too is I realized I was so vulnerable and so bitter that Bernadette was cast instead of Patti in 2003 that I really saw the whole Bernadette production through this lens of her being successful in this role that I didn't want her to be playing in the first place.

[13:37] Daniel Nolen: I mean, don't get me wrong, I would have been happy for Bernadette to do it later or to replace Patti or something, but I felt that Patti owned this role first, you know. And I didn't think Patti would ever get to do it now that Bernadette had done it.

[13:49] Ben Rimalower: And um, I find now though that so many people, especially the ones that love Bernadette in the role, see her as having been sort of the underdog. And that's just never how I thought of it. So it was interesting to sort of think about that in context. Um, but that said, I did judge a lot of people for their votes.

[14:10] Daniel Nolen: For sure, me too.

[14:11] Ben Rimalower: But also differently depending on who they are.

[14:14] Ben Rimalower: Like one person's Bernadette vote shows that person to have really exquisite taste in acting and singing.

[14:20] Daniel Nolen: Somebody else votes Bernadette because they're a basic bitch.

[14:23] Ben Rimalower: Yes, exactly.

[14:24] Daniel Nolen: Well, and I have to say, I mean, you and I are gonna go through our top choices and our rankings for each song.

[14:30] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[14:31] Daniel Nolen: And there's a few that I just have to speak my truth, but like it's not gonna win me any fans because some of these choices are I know they're not the right choice, but I'm just have to be true to my heart, you know.

[14:42] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[14:42] Daniel Nolen: And y'all can judge me all you want, but well, listen, I I've made my personal list, and um, you know, we're not gonna make our playlist be exactly the same as what all the vote totals were.

[14:54] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[14:55] Daniel Nolen: But we have to find some way to reconcile the vote totals and what I want and what you want.

[15:00] Ben Rimalower: Yes, we will keep everything in mind as we as we decide.

[15:04] Daniel Nolen: You know, I I I think that um that's why it's so important that we've done this ranked choice style.

[15:10] Ben Rimalower: Yes, yes, just like voting should be in the real world.

[15:13] Daniel Nolen: Yes, like the New York mayoral election.

[15:15] Ben Rimalower: Um, so or is it just the primary?

[15:18] Daniel Nolen: Anyway, all right. Um, I guess we should just, with no further ado, dive right into some people.

[15:23] Ben Rimalower: Ladies and gentlemen, some people.

[15:25] Daniel Nolen: Bomb bum bom bom.

[15:27] Ben Rimalower: Why don't we go through and just discuss each of the performances? Um and uh starting with Ethel Merman.

[15:35] Daniel Nolen: Um, I think you and I had the same experience of this, which is just, of course, she's wonderful, but it is so fucking slow.

[15:42] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, Liza really spoils us with her tempo, you know.

[15:45] Daniel Nolen: And so when you start listening to uh Ethel and Angela, it's like, oh god, this feels like a slog.

[15:52] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[15:52] Daniel Nolen: I'm glad you said Ethel and Angela, because I agree, I think we've talked about this, that really it whether they realized it or not, you just know that Tyne and Bette and Bernadette and Patty all were dealing with, if not subconscious memories of Liza, if not conscious memories of Liza, subconscious ones.

[16:12] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[16:12] Daniel Nolen: And if not even that, certainly their piano players were and their drummers were, and their musical directors were.

[16:18] Ben Rimalower: And so I think that um she changed the game for the better, you know.

[16:23] Daniel Nolen: Um because you just want it to be fast.

[16:26] Ben Rimalower: Um, and and the the thought I had about Angela was, you know, I I I had this idea in general of Angela being such an important rose, mostly because of those old queens, you know, some of whom are are close friends of mine or family even, you know, who've just celebrated the memories that they cherish.

[16:46] Daniel Nolen: I mean, they talk about Angela and Gypsy. My Uncle Mitchell talks about Angela and Gypsy the way he talks about the original production of Follies, you know.

[16:54] Ben Rimalower: And I've really taken that to heart.

[16:56] Daniel Nolen: And yet I listened to the album, and very few tracks give me that experience.

[17:01] Ben Rimalower: However, when I watch those video clips, I'm totally transfixed.

[17:05] Daniel Nolen: Yes, I think uh our friend and listener uh Zach Couch posted a clip of her Roses turn.

[17:11] Ben Rimalower: Zachary Jordan.

[17:12] Daniel Nolen: Zachary Jordan, and I yeah, I I watched it so many times because she really is acting her ass off, and it's really devastating.

[17:22] Ben Rimalower: But like you're saying, on the recording, it doesn't quite come through, and it's um, but I still love it, and of course we'll get into that, but we'll get into that.

[17:31] Daniel Nolen: But also, I think it's partly that you want to watch her because she's fucking Angela Lansbury.

[17:37] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, and it's just not the same to listen.

[17:39] Daniel Nolen: Also, I think it's interesting that it's the London cast recording.

[17:44] Ben Rimalower: And so it's, you know, I don't know, nine months or 18 months. I mean, it's a chunk of time before she did it on Broadway.

[17:53] Daniel Nolen: And uh certainly there are differences in the performance that I've tracked.

[17:57] Ben Rimalower: And I think that like she clearly grew in the role in a way and grew vocally in the role.

[18:02] Daniel Nolen: You know.

[18:02] Ben Rimalower: Oh, totally.

[18:03] Daniel Nolen: But also, even on this recording though, she's very strong vocally.

[18:07] Ben Rimalower: I mean, some of these notes she hits uh full voice, I am just blown away by totally, totally.

[18:13] Daniel Nolen: Uh there's some other songs where I definitely want to get into that.

[18:16] Ben Rimalower: Um so anyway, um, that's Merman and Lansbury. Next was Tyne, and you know, it's a great number for Tyne.

[18:25] Daniel Nolen: I think that um she maybe there's a uh I mean I I know there's video of her whole production, you know, bootlegs of decent quality that are on YouTube.

[18:33] Ben Rimalower: But I think she also did this song like at the Kennedy Center or like some Julie Stein tribute or something at some point.

[18:40] Daniel Nolen: So I I feel like she's kind of iconic in the song, and like it, you know, it's well, and you know, she just works.

[18:49] Ben Rimalower: I and I've I've seen uh I've watched clips of her on YouTube performing this song, and it's so good.

[18:54] Daniel Nolen: I mean, just she she really does a good job in it on stage.

[18:58] Ben Rimalower: But you know, famously she was sick or something when they recorded uh this album, and one of our listeners, I can't remember who, but they tweeted that they were at the was it like the flea market, yeah, and they tried to get her to sign the album and she wouldn't do it.

[19:12] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[19:13] Ben Rimalower: Um so like, you know, I've I always kind of take that into account when listening to her because it's not uh she's not fully on her game vocally.

[19:21] Daniel Nolen: It's funny.

[19:22] Ben Rimalower: I do and I don't.

[19:23] Daniel Nolen: Um it's it's not as relevant necessarily in this song, but I I think um, you know, it I I've heard Tyne fully on her game, and she was never gonna beat Bernadette or even Angela, you know, uh, or any of these other women except really Amelda.

[19:23] Ben Rimalower: She was never gonna beat them as a singer.

[19:47] Daniel Nolen: And so I kind of feel like what makes Tyne great in this role and on her album, for my money, it doesn't really suffer, you know.

[19:57] Ben Rimalower: Um anyway, I I love her in some people. Um now, Bette Midler, I feel very schizophrenic about in the song.

[20:06] Daniel Nolen: Um I I really love her in the um fast parts.

[20:14] Ben Rimalower: Um, you know, in the the main part of the song.

[20:17] Daniel Nolen: Um but she does some like really sing-song-y, like, yeah, it's very sing-song-you know.

[20:23] Ben Rimalower: In the bridge, you know.

[20:24] Daniel Nolen: Um she even changes the tune at one point.

[20:27] Ben Rimalower: And I there's lots of times when Bette does that, even when Bette does that in other places in Gypsy that I love it.

[20:34] Daniel Nolen: But in some people, I'm like, no, ma'am.

[20:37] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[20:37] Daniel Nolen: I mean, it's I mean, again, and some of it's Liza's to blame, but you know, at the goodbye to blue.

[20:45] Ben Rimalower: You really want that to just hit just right.

[20:47] Daniel Nolen: And Betts is so lackluster and such a so anticlimactic, she's like, goodbye.

[20:54] Ben Rimalower: You know, it's it's just not there.

[20:55] Daniel Nolen: It doesn't really do it for me.

[20:57] Ben Rimalower: Um Which brings us.

[21:00] Daniel Nolen: Which brings us to Miss Bernadette Peters.

[21:05] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[21:06] Daniel Nolen: That's okay, so Bernadette is so great because I mean, some of it's just built into her voice.

[21:15] Ben Rimalower: But when you hear Bernadette sing this song, it's it's the I Want song of Gypsy, you know.

[21:20] Daniel Nolen: Oh yeah.

[21:20] Ben Rimalower: And you hear that want in her voice and that desire and that ache and that hunger.

[21:25] Daniel Nolen: And I mean, like I said, some of that's just her like weird ass voice.

[21:29] Ben Rimalower: But um she communicates that I think really, really well, and maybe a little more so than some of these other women.

[21:37] Daniel Nolen: Totally.

[21:38] Ben Rimalower: I mean, and um wait, I feel like I had a lot of um, you know, I I in a way I've I've I've always um uh been a huge fan.

[21:48] Daniel Nolen: I mean, I might as well not hide it that you know, Bernadette is my favorite on some people, but even so, I've always kind of like avoided her cast album performance of some people because I love her performance uh on her Carnegie Hall album so much.

[22:04] Ben Rimalower: And um uh and certainly like she's less vocally in the pink on the cast album than she is in in the concert.

[22:14] Daniel Nolen: But this process has really given me a deep appreciation of the cast album performance.

[22:21] Ben Rimalower: I mean her acting here is just so ferocious.

[22:27] Daniel Nolen: I mean, you know, I uh I I I I loved Betty Buckley.

[22:32] Ben Rimalower: I was gonna say I famously loved Betty Buckley in the Paper Mill Playhouse production, uh, who sadly doesn't have a cast album because it's certainly one of my favorite Roses turns by far.

[22:43] Daniel Nolen: But for my money, Betty was less successful in in the stuff that was more comedic or or light or or or even um and and a song like this that's so sort of like kind of vaudevillian in style.

[22:56] Ben Rimalower: I felt that Betty was was really wrong, and it kind of I kind of felt like Betty was a little bit at like the like Rose's turn sturman drawn from the beginning of the show.

[23:05] Daniel Nolen: And um you could almost say that in a way about Bernadette's some people, except it just works really great.

[23:13] Ben Rimalower: But she is like, you know, when Bernadette does some people at Carnegie Hall, she's definitely playing the lyrics in a very like songtime would be proud.

[23:21] Daniel Nolen: She's fucking selling it and like she's got an objective, it's an I want song, it's thrilling.

[23:26] Ben Rimalower: Cross the stage, cross the stage.

[23:27] Daniel Nolen: And and really working it, you know.

[23:29] Ben Rimalower: But here she is like, it's like life or death for her.

[23:34] Daniel Nolen: And it's really exciting.

[23:36] Ben Rimalower: And um it and it really just comes through in her voice.

[23:39] Daniel Nolen: I mean, every single line is on the purpose.

[23:45] Ben Rimalower: On purpose.

[23:46] Daniel Nolen: And and even the places where, like, you know, one place that I especially like, I remember when I first heard the cast album years ago, where I was like, oh, she doesn't sound as good as Carnegie Hall, was on the goodbye to Blueberry Pie.

[23:58] Ben Rimalower: Because on Carnegie Hall, she hits that goodbye to blueberry pie.

[24:02] Daniel Nolen: And it's like as showbiz as Liza's belt note, except it's like the vocal tone that Liza like had in like 1977 and never again, you know.

[24:12] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[24:12] Daniel Nolen: And like Bernadette is just like, you know, might as well be like singing a Vita, the way she like just like bright and like bushy-tailed belts out that note.

[24:20] Ben Rimalower: And she does this weird thing on the cast album where she lands on the by of goodbye in this weird nasal placement, like she's cheating the note, and like for half a second, you're like, uh oh, what's going on here?

[24:34] Daniel Nolen: And then she like slides into the real placement of the note.

[24:38] Ben Rimalower: And somehow the extra work she has to do makes it better.

[24:42] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[24:43] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[24:44] Daniel Nolen: It really does.

[24:45] Ben Rimalower: And the only thing I really am just such a fan of it.

[24:47] Daniel Nolen: The only thing I'll say is that I laugh at her because um she says in her fabulous intro dialogue before she starts singing.

[24:55] Ben Rimalower: Um, if I die, it won't be from sitting, it'll be from fighting to get and and she says that sitting and that fighting, and then I'm like, uh-oh.

[25:05] Daniel Nolen: She made her bed and she's stuck.

[25:08] Ben Rimalower: And she gets um some people can get a thrill.

[25:13] Daniel Nolen: Knitting, sweaters, and sitting still.

[25:17] Ben Rimalower: And every single time there's one of those ings in the song, I'm like, poor thing, she's she can't double back.

[25:24] Daniel Nolen: She's stuck with it.

[25:25] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[25:26] Daniel Nolen: Um, but it just shows how committed she is.

[25:28] Ben Rimalower: I mean, because that's who Rose is.

[25:30] Daniel Nolen: We all know that the rose you want is a rose who says sitting.

[25:35] Ben Rimalower: Right, right.

[25:36] Daniel Nolen: Which brings me to Which brings us to uh Patricia.

[25:40] Ben Rimalower: I mean, you know, there's no question that I am in love with Patti LuPone.

[25:46] Daniel Nolen: Um I'm really have a hard time right from the gate of her some people.

[25:53] Ben Rimalower: Um, because she's so freaking casual.

[25:56] Daniel Nolen: I mean, we're burning that is like a life or death stakes of I Want Song.

[26:00] Ben Rimalower: Patty is like so obvious that she's gonna get the money.

[26:04] Daniel Nolen: Maybe she'll steal the plaque, maybe she'll steal the money, maybe she'll kill her father, maybe she'll eat him.

[26:11] Ben Rimalower: But like, there's no threat whatsoever.

[26:14] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it's like she's too cool for school.

[26:16] Ben Rimalower: She doesn't really care.

[26:17] Daniel Nolen: Like, she could take the 88 bucks.

[26:19] Ben Rimalower: It won't be from sitting.

[26:21] Daniel Nolen: If I'll be from fighting.

[26:24] Ben Rimalower: Exactly.

[26:25] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it's just like she's like smoking a joint.

[26:28] Ben Rimalower: She's smoking a cigarette.

[26:30] Daniel Nolen: She's like, she's like laying out by the pool, captain like a my guy.

[26:34] Ben Rimalower: And she says that opening line, like with her sunglasses down her nose.

[26:38] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, she's yeah, it's just so like, yeah, take it or leave it.

[26:42] Ben Rimalower: You know, and you know, this song was it was problematic for her on Broadway, I felt.

[26:47] Daniel Nolen: Um, I mean, everywhere on Broadway and um, you know, City Center and Ravinia and everything.

[26:52] Ben Rimalower: I felt like she never quite learned it exactly right.

[26:57] Daniel Nolen: And like she always, I thought she was doing some weird vocal technique thing on all those intervals of the butt I at least gotta try.

[27:06] Ben Rimalower: And like, and it was, you know, you really want somebody to be like, but I and like she always seemed to have like a new not a new breath, but what do you call it? Like she aspirated the word uh, you know, she'd be like, but I and like oh yeah, and then the pitch was odd, yeah, exactly.

[27:23] Daniel Nolen: And then here on the album, the pitch is great, and the vocal placement is faultless.

[27:28] Ben Rimalower: I mean, she sounds in a thrilling vocal placement on those notes, but like nobody you can't go, but she doesn't even go, but I it's more like she goes straight to the heart of the vowel, and it's like she's like, but uh yeah, but yeah, it's like she's like covering it.

[27:48] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it's so odd, and like um, it's like, and then I never quite felt like she was exactly right on like the rhythm of the like all the socials I had to go to, all the lodges.

[28:00] Ben Rimalower: I had to play, and like, I don't know, it just kind of like, you know, by the time she gets to the like goodbye to blueberry pie, you kind of feel like she's like warmed herself into it and she's like having a great time, and like it's like it's so sort of like fabulous, you kind of want to forgive it.

[28:16] Daniel Nolen: But um, you know, and she has a great high belt note at the end, but it at the end of the day, it's it it it kind of just can't make it really happen happen for me.

[28:27] Ben Rimalower: I agree.

[28:28] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I love listening to it. It's so fun to listen to, especially because it's, you know, in relation to all the rest of these, it's like an up tempo. But um, yeah, yeah, but after listening to Bernadette's, it's kind of like, uh, you know, it like, like you said, it's like this is being performed at like some talent show, and she's just like the most talented contestant and not worried about it, and not worried about it. She's like, I'm gonna win it, you know. It's like, it's like even trying to win the talent show, let alone the character's objective. Yeah, it's like, it's like, uh, she's at the rusty anchor, just surrounded by men who adore her.

[29:08] Daniel Nolen: She's be flat is good for me.

[29:10] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, uh, all that I need is 88 bucks. Seriously. Oh, that's the other thing. When she's like, I mean, nobody is ever gonna give you, well, I'll get it someplace else and get my kids out, go.

[29:22] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah.

[29:30] Ben Rimalower: On the night she like, like the New York Times was there, not even Bernadette could play a higher stake than Liza on I'll get it someplace else and get my kids out. Never, never. I mean, Liza. She could play a little more stake than Patty.

[29:43] Daniel Nolen: She's like, she's like, well, then I'll get it someplace else and get my kids out.

[29:48] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Slowly walks to the coat. Um, and it's also the rhythm, the rhythm thing you were saying about all the lodges I had to go to. Also, Liza just that there too, because Liza's rhythm is so insane.

[30:02] Daniel Nolen: Oh, the lodges I had to go to.

[30:03] Ben Rimalower: Oh, the lodgers I had to play. All the shiners, I said hello to it.

[30:06] Daniel Nolen: And she skips some of those words sometimes.

[30:08] Ben Rimalower: She'll be like, she'll be like, uh, oh the loud design applied to play. Oh, the lodge is I had to go to Logis I had to play, Shina's I said hello to LA, I'm coming your way, some people can't. I mean, it's like so insane how she just goes on some weird journey.

[30:23] Daniel Nolen: Um God. You know, then Bernadette and Tyne, and they managed to pull it back from that, you know. And and Bet, who's I think at the end of the day, I'd prefer Patty's version to Bett's, but at least Bet is in the moment, you know.

[30:40] Ben Rimalower: Right, right. And honestly, I, you know, I mean, Imelda is definitely, uh, I would say she's the weakest singer in the group. Um, and um, she's very weird as Rose, but I don't hate her, some people.

[30:58] Daniel Nolen: Well, and Imelda, if she's good at one thing, she's good at playing the stakes, you know, and she is good at wanting on stage. I mean high stakes stunting.

[31:13] Ben Rimalower: I could just see her in rehearsal being like, be like, no, I was thinking perhaps I could have a crack pipe or shoot up some heroine in some people, and the director's like, uh no, no, I don't think that's why.

[31:27] Daniel Nolen: She goes, right, save it for Rose's turn.

[31:29] Ben Rimalower: My fault too. She's like, what you don't know is that Rose actually has a machine gun in her handbag about to hold it to Papa's head. Seriously, seriously. I mean, she whatever faults she has, she is definitely playing the intention.

[31:47] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[31:48] Ben Rimalower: Uh all right. Well, so I guess, uh my, uh top three on some people would be Bernadette, Tyne, and then Patty.

[32:03] Daniel Nolen: Mine are Bernadette, Patty, and Ethel.

[32:06] Ben Rimalower: Interesting.

[32:07] Daniel Nolen: Okay, well, the voters chose um Bernadette, Patty, Angela.

[32:14] Ben Rimalower: Bernadette, Patty, and Angela.

[32:16] Daniel Nolen: Oh, okay.

[32:16] Ben Rimalower: All right. So, well, we have an easy, an easy call here. Um, we would definitely, we all chose Bernadette as a first choice. What a beautiful way to start the process. Um the question I would then say if we're doing an additional playlist that's just like a fun gypsy mix, are there any versions of some people besides Bernadette's that we would throw there?

[32:40] Daniel Nolen: Uh I mean, not from this list.

[32:45] Ben Rimalower: I know what you're thinking.

[32:49] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I mean, I kind of would throw Liza's on, but so but we think we're we could live without the rest of the actual petition.

[32:55] Ben Rimalower: It might be fun.

[32:56] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it might be fun to throw Liza on for context, also.

[32:59] Ben Rimalower: But um seriously. I mean, I mean, you know me. I forget the gypsy playlist. Like, just to like have dinner with somebody in context, I need them to listen to two different Liza versions of some people.

[33:12] Daniel Nolen: Uh yeah, but I think for this one, Bernadette is clearly it.

[33:17] Ben Rimalower: And yeah, I mean, Bernadette and Liza for me are the only ones I truly care about.

[33:21] Daniel Nolen: All right.

[33:22] Ben Rimalower: Alright, well, so then we are moving right along.

[33:25] Daniel Nolen: Our next song.

[33:28] Ben Rimalower: Next song. I opened my, I see now I wish I had your note cards, Angela, because I have to pull up my different email draft for each song. Here we go.

[33:36] Daniel Nolen: Yes, you you're meaning Angela Kinsey from The Office.

[33:39] Ben Rimalower: Yes, not Lansbury. Because I told Ben earlier that's this is why I'm doing note cards now, is because on Office Ladies podcasts, which I love, they're always um bringing out their note cards.

[33:49] Daniel Nolen: I mean, by the way, because Daniel got me into this podcast, which is really wonderful. They recap every episode of The Office, and it's hosted by Office co-stars and real life best friends, Angela Kinsey and Jenna Fisher.

[34:02] Ben Rimalower: Fisher, who played Angela Martin and Pam Beasley on The Office. Um, and now I'm totally obsessed too.

[34:09] Daniel Nolen: Uh, so is it safe to say that you're the Angela and I'm the Jenna?

[34:13] Ben Rimalower: I think so, yeah.

[34:14] Daniel Nolen: I love that.

[34:15] Ben Rimalower: And um, I now I'm kind of wishing we called our podcast musical theater ladies.

[34:21] Daniel Nolen: Listen, we we it's not too late.

[34:23] Ben Rimalower: It's not too late. Um, speaking of our podcast being the 50th episode and everything, um, you know, it's been really encouraging how many um more and more listeners and subscribers we've gotten consistently over the 50 episodes. We just keep building bigger and stronger, and it's very, very gratifying.

[34:43] Daniel Nolen: But you know what would be even help us build even bigger and even stronger still, would be if some of our devoted listeners would go and write a review for us on I on Apple Podcasts.

[34:58] Ben Rimalower: So, small world.

[35:00] Daniel Nolen: Small world. This was the thorn in my side of this whole process. This was the song that gave me the most trouble and heartache, and I just went back and forth.

[35:12] Ben Rimalower: It took me so long to really nail down my list.

[35:16] Daniel Nolen: Really?

[35:17] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[35:17] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[35:18] Ben Rimalower: I mean, it was always kind of.

[35:20] Daniel Nolen: Well, it was always kind of the same top three that I had.

[35:24] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[35:25] Daniel Nolen: But just the order I had them in.

[35:26] Ben Rimalower: I was, I kept rearranging it.

[35:28] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[35:29] Ben Rimalower: It was always the, I think for me, the top three is very, it was always very clear to me in my ear.

[35:36] Daniel Nolen: And I just wasn't quite sure what order to put them in.

[35:40] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[35:40] Daniel Nolen: But also, just in general, out of all the songs on this uh album in our on our playlist, Small World is like my favorite song from Gypsy now.

[35:50] Ben Rimalower: Like it's same so good here.

[35:52] Daniel Nolen: Same, same, same. I have always loved it so much. Even when I was a kid, and um my grandparents would um babysit me and my sister, and they would play us um the original movie with Rosalind Russell.

[36:05] Ben Rimalower: Um, which by the way, the reason we haven't included that is because a lot of the time it's Lisa Kirk doing the vocals.

[36:11] Daniel Nolen: So it feels like but not all the time. It feels like a weird inconsistency to be including.

[36:17] Ben Rimalower: But um, but I grew up on that movie and I loved it. And I remember that song just grabbing me as a child.

[36:24] Daniel Nolen: And then uh the first experience I had of Gypsy as an adolescent when I was becoming obsessed uh with musical theater, was when Bette Midler's uh TV movie premiered.

[36:36] Ben Rimalower: I remember um buying the CD before, like it was just a couple days before the TV debut.

[36:43] Daniel Nolen: And um, and I remember immediately just swooning for Bett's version of the song.

[36:49] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, absolutely swooning.

[36:51] Daniel Nolen: And um, so it's always been one of my favorites.

[36:54] Ben Rimalower: And I have to say, frankly, one of the big heartbreaks for me in Gypsy with both Patty and Bernadette was this song. Because, you know, I was so bitter that Patti LuPone was not playing Mama Rose in the 2003 Sam Mendes Broadway Revival.

[37:09] Daniel Nolen: And I really thought Bernadette was wrong for the part before I saw it.

[37:14] Ben Rimalower: And I loved her in the role, but I, you know, she's still not the type I would want. But but I loved her in the role. I saw her three times. But I will say, even when I thought she was wrong before I saw it, one thing I was fucking psyched for was to hear Bernadette wrap her solo album croon voice around this ballad.

[37:34] Daniel Nolen: I thought she might even do it better than Bette Midler had.

[37:37] Ben Rimalower: You know, I I would I Bernadette is somebody who could actually play in Bette Midler's lane when you're talking about a certain kind of like 20th century classic pop standard ballad like that, you know.

[37:52] Daniel Nolen: And um, and I was really so excited for Bernadette to sing Small World, and she sounded good, but she she acted it more than she sang it.

[38:04] Ben Rimalower: You know, she made all the choices about serving the character, which obviously it's a play, and that's the right choice. But there I would have liked her to try to like, you know, butter both sides of the bread a little more.

[38:17] Daniel Nolen: And um, and then I had hoped when the album came out that maybe she would have, you know, at least split the difference more in the recording, and she really didn't.

[38:27] Ben Rimalower: Um, and then I thought when Patty was doing Gypsy. Well, listen, I hope that Patty's Gypsy will be like Patty's Avita and Patty's Sweeney Todd, and just one of these great Patti LuPone performances that I've dreamed about all my life, you know.

[38:42] Daniel Nolen: But there's a danger that she might do some of her weird Patty bullshit, you know.

[38:46] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, well, and you're always gonna get a little of that.

[38:49] Daniel Nolen: Oh, you're always gonna get a little.

[38:50] Ben Rimalower: Um, but I thought, you know what? There's probably even the best version of Patty that I could imagine, and certainly the worst version, she was gonna see this beautiful ballad and go straight to like matters of the heart crooning and be a cabaret singer on it, you know?

[39:06] Daniel Nolen: And I was so psyched.

[39:08] Ben Rimalower: And then that's not at all what she did. She acted it, she smacked, schmacked at it, she did some weird belting when I didn't want her to belt, you know.

[39:17] Daniel Nolen: And I just and then I saw her do that role twice at Ravinia, three times at City Center, ten times on Broadway, and never not once did she sing that fucking song the way I wanted her to.

[39:29] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[39:30] Ben Rimalower: And the album where she sings all the songs kind of differently than she did on Broadway, she does Small Worlds exactly like she did on Broadway.

[39:41] Daniel Nolen: So that was a heartbreak, you know.

[39:43] Ben Rimalower: Um, and uh, so anyway, starting this process, of course, I started with Ethel.

[39:48] Daniel Nolen: And it's just always so funny because we think of Ethel rightfully so as like the queen master person who like invented belting.

[39:57] Ben Rimalower: Right, right.

[39:58] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, you know the first of the great belters.

[40:00] Ben Rimalower: The first of the great belters.

[40:02] Daniel Nolen: And of course, she is that, and she's so ridiculous. But what always surprises me, no matter how many times I learned the lesson, is that there's Ethel can fucking sing a ballad.

[40:14] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah, she can.

[40:16] Daniel Nolen: And she can mix.

[40:18] Ben Rimalower: Because in a way, her weird voice is kind of always kind of mixy.

[40:23] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[40:24] Ben Rimalower: Well, and it's and and she has kind of like Mary Testa, you know.

[40:28] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, and she has a really seamless transition from her full out belt to her mix, where it's not like a few of these ladies like Angela, and I mean, I mean certainly Patty.

[40:39] Ben Rimalower: It's like a definite like switch over.

[40:43] Daniel Nolen: You can hear them switching gears from the chest voice to the head voice.

[40:47] Ben Rimalower: I mean, at least Patty's chest and head overlap in terms of range, and she just makes choices. Angela literally has to like jug over a note in the middle.

[40:58] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[40:59] Ben Rimalower: So, but Ethel is just, especially on this song. I mean, it's so it's it's never muddied up. It's always just really clear and concise, but she really is not afraid to float a note and mix it.

[41:12] Daniel Nolen: Uh, and it's just so tender and and lovely.

[41:16] Ben Rimalower: It's also the beauty of her like black and white, rigid, old-fashioned show business thinking that she's like, it's a ballad. You gotta sing it sweet, you know.

[41:25] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, like just in it's just so clear to her to just deliver the results that the material calls for without like overthinking it, yeah.

[41:37] Ben Rimalower: Just go to New Haven and sing the fucking song. And that's what she does.

[41:41] Daniel Nolen: 100%.

[41:42] Ben Rimalower: Um, and then um, you know, uh the the Angela version, I would have thought, you know, maybe wouldn't have been something I loved all that much.

[41:53] Daniel Nolen: Um, but it's kind of like the Angela you love singing like my best boy and name.

[41:58] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, my best bow and name. It's comforting, it's warm.

[42:02] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah.

[42:03] Ben Rimalower: I mean, it's like that's I it made me feel like uh if he walked into my life, or yeah, my best boy. It's it's just that that that's and that's why I love Angela so much as Rose, because maybe more than any of these ladies, she really explores kind of the the warm maternal side of Rose, you know, and like the actual mother side, and she gives you a glimpse of like, oh, maybe this is like a loving, at times loving mother, and you see that through her performances and in these numbers, especially.

[42:35] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I I've I felt that way from Patty on stage in the in the show, um, but it not so much in the songs.

[42:42] Ben Rimalower: I mean, certainly by the time Patty gets to "Together," where you know, the only time she's singing with, um, uh, Louise, the girls, it's, um, it's not about warmth for Louise, you know. But like, um, but on stage I did feel that way. But Angela, it really does come across, um, in the score. And, um, well, and that's just also what she does best, you know. And you know, we love her as Mrs. Potts and Jessica Fletcher. It's like all these characters that have become so iconic because of their warmth and the comfort that they bring us. It's funny though, because like Mrs. Lovett is such a triumph of hers, and she really was not warm at all in that role.

[43:20] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, true.

[43:21] Ben Rimalower: And you know, the Manchurian Candidate, uh, another famous movie role, Gaslight, she played the crazy maid. I mean, she wasn't, she didn't originally start out like that at all, but then I think maybe, you know, once she, uh, kind of got into her older years, even, yeah, maybe just having kids herself. Um, speaking of crazy, um, I want no part of Imelda Staunton on this song. Absolutely not. She could totally not. Go to the bottom of the list. Bottom of the list. And the what I just want to say, um, and I'll just say it now, that she's my first choice on this song is Tyne.

[43:58] Daniel Nolen: Um, interesting.

[44:00] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I, you know, obviously, I mean, Tyne is arguably the worst singer or the second worst singer in the group. And I know that she was, um, not in good voice and sick and all that. But in a way, that's what makes it so to me. Tyne Daly sings this song. She's just like a woman, and she's just singing the music, and she's just, she is in service of the music. She is just doing the best she can with what the Lord gave her to deliver this melody. And like that is what I love about Tyne is that she, you know, it's like a masterclass in using what she got, less is more.

[44:38] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[44:39] Ben Rimalower: Um, not trying to overdo it. Uh, in other songs, in other songs, uh, we'll get there, but she does that, and I really love it. This one I was just so like already in love with these other ones.

[44:49] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[44:50] Ben Rimalower: I mean, also it's written because it's such like an alto, like rich ballad, you know, I think she's more she can be comfortable, you know, going into all of that like lucky, you know, it's so it's low enough that she she has so much warmth, you know. Yeah, when she goes for like the higher parts that are the more extensive vocal lines, you know, she's not doing a lot of of shit. She's just like taking a deep breath and like, you know, she's like, she's like somebody's like mom singing on Christmas or something, you know.

[45:21] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it is very that. I mean, that that's a good way to put it. Tyne sounds like someone's mom singing, you know. And it I just it just as much as I wanted to, my top three on "Small World" were Tyne, Bet, and Ethel.

[45:36] Ben Rimalower: And I really thought I was gonna prefer, um, I thought coming in that Bet would obviously be my favorite because what do I love so much about Bet? Why do you and I like obsess so much over those, um, albums, like you know, where she sings those great ballads in the 70s, and you know, and of course, her career, her music career is so built on like "From a Distance" and you know, "Wind Beneath My Wings." I mean, fucking like emotional ballad. So, and I love her singing this one so much. And, uh, you know, Bette is such a great singer, but arguably some people might have better voices than her or whatever you want to say. But in this kind of a song, even just on vocal instrument alone, Bet has such that like rich, warm bath kind of a sound, you know.

[46:23] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it's you always say she's such a stylist, and it shows so well in relation to these other ladies in this whole 100 process in all those songs because she, you know, she's not afraid to fuck with it and be like, I'm gonna riff on this. I'm gonna slow down into this note.

[46:41] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I mean, she's not scared of, uh, you know, Sondheim or anybody else, you know. But, um, uh, that's Miss Midler, damn. But, um, I but I so I really thought I was gonna just love Bet the most. And then I sort of when I started going through the process, I was like, I don't know, Ethel is so hard to deny. It's so hard to deny Ethel, you know. She just she just gets it so in her bones, and it's just there's just like, you know, because Bet is song styling, what Ethel does then just seems so natural and effortless. But still, Tyne is the one that really just I just want to listen to again and again.

[47:23] Daniel Nolen: And I also think it's really funny that I guess to balance Tyne's sort of like musical theater novice, she is the one who has like literally a grown-up dainty June as Herbie. I mean, Jonathan Hidari is just like, I don't know, Rose. And like he's literally like a belter. I mean, it's kind of fabulous and great and kind of insane. But like it's just like her charming him with the opposite of what he's got going on. I really love that track.

[47:58] Ben Rimalower: That's hilarious. Who were your top, uh—

[47:59] Daniel Nolen: My top three are Ethel, Angela, and Bet.

[48:08] Ben Rimalower: Mmm.

[48:09] Daniel Nolen: Mm-hmm.

[48:10] Ben Rimalower: Uh, wait, what'd you say yours were?

[48:12] Daniel Nolen: Uh, Tyne and Tyne, Bethel and Beth.

[48:13] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Tyne, Bet, and Ethel. So we both have Ethel and Bet. What were the results from the poll?

[48:20] Daniel Nolen: Oh God, it's so upsetting. Um, so the winner was Patty. This is the one of the ones where I was like, are we listening to the same CD? Um, I mean, I guess if someone didn't have like such a relationship with the song a certain way, they might be like, Patty sounds great, you know. Um, and she's not even really honestly in my list, Patty was second to last on this song.

[48:42] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I mean, I'm not a fan, but I could see where people like if you're if Patty doesn't annoy you with like she's actually not doing her pattyisms, she's just kind of like acting it and belting it and not singing it the way I want it, you know. Anyway, um, Patty was number one, followed by Angela.

[48:59] Daniel Nolen: Okay.

[48:59] Ben Rimalower: Um, followed by Bernadette, uh, who I really didn't like in it, and then Bet was fourth place.

[49:07] Daniel Nolen: Okay, Bet was fourth.

[49:09] Ben Rimalower: Okay, so. Tell me your top three again.

[49:13] Daniel Nolen: Ethel, Angela, and Bet.

[49:16] Ben Rimalower: I mean. But also, okay, so here's I think we can also I'm interested to see who wins some of the other songs because we might have to do a bit of finessing, like, you know, we don't want. Like if if Ethel is showing up on the top for all the ballads, it's like, oh, okay, well, we can go back and like finesse it and maybe give this one to Angela.

[49:41] Daniel Nolen: Well, these kids, these kids did not vote for Ethel at all here.

[49:45] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[49:46] Daniel Nolen: So Angela and Bet. Um, I mean, I would like much rather give it to Bet than Angela.

[49:55] Ben Rimalower: Okay.

[49:56] Daniel Nolen: But although I'm just thinking ahead, "Mr. Goldstone" is gonna come up and that's gonna present a problem, at least for me.

[50:04] Ben Rimalower: Well, let's so let's let's leave this right now. Let's let's put a pin. I'll I'll set this this note card I'll set on the other side of the.

[50:11] Daniel Nolen: Oh, who are the contenders right now?

[50:14] Ben Rimalower: I guess just Angela and Bet.

[50:17] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[50:17] Ben Rimalower: Although, if we really want to, you know, use our executive privilege, we could consider Ethel. Um, all right, I'm gonna write her in. But I think I think we should also, yeah, it in the context of the rest of the playlist, this could be a really integral piece that we can come back to.

[50:36] Daniel Nolen: Totally.

[50:37] Ben Rimalower: Um, okay, so um, I guess then moving on to "Mr. Goldstone."

[50:43] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[50:46] Ben Rimalower: I okay. This is my feeling about "Mr. Goldstone," is that I really thought Ethel was gonna be my number one favorite. Because the song is basically written as like an Ethel Merman impression.

[51:01] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah.

[51:02] Ben Rimalower: And she does all her Mermanisms on it to full effect. However, I kind of felt like Bet does a better Ethel Merman impression than Ethel Merman does.

[51:12] Daniel Nolen: Yes, 100%.

[51:13] Ben Rimalower: I was like, this song, you really Bet gets to use her like kind of comedic chicken I felt like you know, this was like watching one of her little bits in her concerts, you know. Like she really gets to use her like vaudeville kind of comedic chops.

[51:28] Daniel Nolen: Totally, you know, when I grow, "Mr. Goldstone."

[51:32] Ben Rimalower: It's just so fun to and it's so Bet, you know, she just feels right in her element.

[51:36] Daniel Nolen: Totally. I also really love her Herbie, um, Peter Riegert. Um, I feel like he's really warm and they play well together in this song. Um, I will say for this song, I kind of immediately despise anyone that's not a fucking like power belter. Like for me, Tyne, Bernadette and Imelda, and just because Bernadette feels like she's really like put out by this number, like I I to me in this song, like you can't look like you're struggling. You have to be in fucking charge, you know.

[52:09] Ben Rimalower: Same, same.

[52:10] Daniel Nolen: Um, I love Patty in the song because I feel like it she's just like clearly like in charge, you know. It's for the odd, it's the same reason that I hated her in "Some People," is that I love her in this, you know. And, uh, well, and some of those some of those notes she sings, she just fucking blows the roof off.

[52:27] Ben Rimalower: Totally.

[52:28] Daniel Nolen: I mean, if this were a contest for who sounds best on "I'll Have June Recite a Poem," then the winner would be Patti LuPone.

[52:35] Ben Rimalower: Is that the best note Patty's ever saying?

[52:37] Daniel Nolen: That that part is so thrilling.

[52:39] Ben Rimalower: Totally thrilling. Um, and uh, and it's funny, Angela in a way is a violation of my rule on this because she's not really like a vocal powerhouse like Bet and Ethel and Patty are. But she has the comedy, comedian, Mrs. Lovett-ness. She kind of outsmarts them all.

[53:00] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[53:01] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Well, and Angela also, I didn't even, I didn't even really consider her just because she's not on Spotify, but no, it's heartbreaking. You know, going into this, I had known her version just from listening to the record, and I was I had always loved it and thought she did such a good job with it. Uh, so you know, I'm not counting her, but she would be up there for me. She'd be up there.

[53:20] Daniel Nolen: Um, but uh, so I really, you know, what makes me not have Patty's "Goldstone" very high in my heart is that um she uh it's really just her weird fucking beginning.

[53:38] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[53:39] Daniel Nolen: Like she um it's like the way she starts the song is so odd and like it's like anti-musical. And then like it's like 15 seconds later, she's like into the swing of it and it's fabulous. But I like can't forgive that beginning. Um, similarly, Bernadette, like even when I try to like forgive her, because like I mean, you know, she's working very hard, but she is belting strong. But like, um, I cannot get over the joke she tries to play on like fried rice. Um, because like she's like, oh, Mr. Goldstone, I'm sorry there's not more egg rolls, but we do have some blah blah blah, and like the last thing she's gonna say is like, and we have some fried rice, and Herbie's talking over her, and he's like, he's booked the act on the Orpheum circuit, and she's like, and some fried rice.

I mean, it's like some fucking like Looney Tunes cartoon kind of comedy. And it's just so shameless and unforgivable. Also, like, I don't know if it why it seems like Dainty June sings too much. Like other like Bernadette is almost like upstaged on this track by the rest of that like cast.

[54:51] Ben Rimalower: And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, I mean, this really gets to the heart of why Bernadette's performance ultimately like didn't work for me. Is that like I felt like she like isn't an army general that was like commandeering the troops in this moment?

[55:07] Daniel Nolen: Right, right, yes, yes.

[55:09] Ben Rimalower: And um, so for I I never really got over that, even though I like loved so much of what she did throughout the material. Um, but so um, yeah, so just in summation, like for me, uh, it really comes down to Bet then Ethel, then Patty.

[55:28] Daniel Nolen: Mine, yeah, same except for Bet, Patty, then Ethel.

[55:32] Ben Rimalower: And the voters chose, uh, wait, did I say my correct thing? Oh, no, sorry. In my actual truth, I said Bet, Ethel, Angela, Patty, but I Angela's in parentheses. That was mine. And then, uh, the voters chose Patty, Bet, Ethel.

[55:49] Daniel Nolen: Okay, well.

[55:53] Ben Rimalower: So that's, you know, that makes it easier.

[55:56] Daniel Nolen: Um, Patty, Bet, Ethel.

[55:59] Ben Rimalower: I mean, the thing is. I mean, I guess it's another one for us to revisit.

[56:08] Daniel Nolen: Let's revisit it.

[56:09] Ben Rimalower: But the thing is so far we have Bet and Ethel. We could consider for the last song, too.

[56:14] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[56:15] Ben Rimalower: This one will be easier, though. Whatever we decide with "Small World," this one will be easier because even though there's a little bit of variance, you and I are basically on the same page, and the voters are not that far off either.

[56:27] Daniel Nolen: So we could be very true to the will of the people and be happy with this one.

[56:31] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[56:31] Daniel Nolen: Okay, so I'm putting this one in the revisit pile as well.

[56:35] Ben Rimalower: All right. Moving on to "You'll Never Get Away From Me."

[56:42] Daniel Nolen: Uh, yes.

[56:44] Ben Rimalower: I will say this is the first track where I truly enjoy all of their versions.

[56:52] Daniel Nolen: I I do too.

[56:54] Ben Rimalower: Uh this this I I do too.

[56:56] Ben Rimalower: I mean, especially more there was less of a divide than the other ones.

[57:01] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[57:02] Ben Rimalower: Um, interestingly, I found out that this song, even though Sondheim, I think one of his like preconditions for like collaborating with Julie Stein on the score, was that he didn't want any trunk songs. He wanted each song to be composed for this show. Um, but I guess this song was added uh at some point in the process when like Julie Stein managed to like pull a trunk song out from his you know piano bench and like kind of got it over Sondheim's head. Um and I kind of feel like it shows like maybe it's like a little more generic than most of the score. Um I always really I think it's a really pretty, like wonderful um melody. Um just like Small World, I think Ethel Merman's version is just kind of perfection.

[57:48] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I agree.

[57:50] Ben Rimalower: I she's especially important in this song because the big notes on this, just try, and you're gonna see. There are these big belt notes, but you still want them to be kind of pretty.

[58:05] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, well, and and again, we don't think of Ethel as having a particularly pretty voice, but in the um when she the come dance with me, like she she sings those come dance with me so lightly and just so gently, but it's still so beautiful. But again, no ornamentation or indulgence, it's just singing the fucking song.

[58:27] Ben Rimalower: Well, but that's how you can feel about the just try and you're gonna see. Like it's obviously beltier than like any of these bitches could like hope to be, because it's fucking Ethel Merman. But at the same time, it's like not the way you imagine. It's like not strident, it's like actually kind of beautiful. And I feel like she's like, you'll know when I'm belting, you know. And it's like it's just kind of perfect.

[58:49] Daniel Nolen: Also, like kind of along the lines of why I'm like not at all mad at Tyne for having a cold. Like famously, um uh what's his name? Jack Klugman. I was gonna say Ed Asner. Um, Jack Klugman as her Herbie was like not a singer and was like, don't make me sing, like, you know, please don't make me sing. But like he's I'll I would rather hear a non-singer than a sorta singer any day of the week. And he is just so like, Rose, I love you, but don't count your chicken. And it's just so charming and perfect, you know, as opposed to like, you know, I mean, none of the herbies are bad. I love all the herbies. It's part of the reason when like when Patty was doing it and everybody was saying, like, um, oh, Boyd Gaines is the best Herbie we've ever seen.

I'm like, he's really wonderful. So was John Dawson opposite Bernadette. So was um Peter Regert opposite Bette. You know, the only one that's actually kind of different is Jonathan Hidari, who's like the gay musical theater Herbie who was wonderful. And it's like, um, so you know, uh whatever, but but I do appreciate like just what a like non-singing like Mr. Van de Gelder this Herbie is.

[1:00:04] Daniel Nolen: Absolutely, absolutely. Well, and uh, you know, we said that thing about Ethel, uh, you know, she just makes it effortless. But with that said, my next up uh choice is Miss Bernadette Peters because on that just try, she does belt the hell out of it, but it is so it just sits so well in her voice.

[1:00:31] Ben Rimalower: It's the just it's just so thrilling. And she does that Bernadette thing, and it she puts some power behind it, and it's also just her weird voice that all kind of add together to culminate in that note, and I I really love it.

[1:00:45] Daniel Nolen: I feel the opposite. I fucking hate Bernadette's version of this song. Um, like Small World, I have all these expectations of how I want her to sound. So, you know, it's a little bit crazy and unfair. But I feel like she's so belty in this. I I don't think that note sounds pretty. It's so belty, and I want it to be pretty. You know, it has no sheen to it. And I feel like Bernadette is like really kind of cute and funny and like interesting in the song, but I feel like she's like not musical. And it I don't understand why. I I would love to hear Bernadette just sing this song.

[1:01:22] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I mean, I because the reason I love Ethel in this song is because uh she does just sing and it. It's very light and mixy. But I enjoy Bernadette's belt on this. Um I mean, and I kind of feel sort of similarly about Patty. I mean, uh uh our our our our favorite uh live stream friend Zach Couch said that you know something about Patty doing the role as a cabaret singer.

[1:01:47] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:01:48] Ben Rimalower: Which like I think is like a little unfair. In fact, I was complaining about her not doing that in Small World. And but I could see in this number because she just does some really weird vocal choices that just feel like they're motivated only as a vocal choice.

[1:02:04] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[1:02:04] Ben Rimalower: She's just like, ooh, this feels nice. And it's like they're a little disjointed because there's sections of the song where she's really warm and actually sounds really pretty. And I like I didn't hate her in this number on stage, but it it doesn't really do it for me. And if I want warmth, I'm much more satisfied in this song by Bet.

[1:02:25] Daniel Nolen: Um, yes, I do like Bet's part of it. You know, I just think it's lovely. Although honestly, even Bet, it's beltier than I want it to be. Um and uh I kind of prefer Angela over all of them because Angela, let's be honest, even at Angela's beltiest, beltiest, beltiest, she's still kind of not that belty.

[1:02:49] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, to me, the Angela, the problem I have with the Angela version of this song is that it seems like it's a little too low for her, and it doesn't really sit in that sweet spot of her voice, so it's a little like she's doing a B. Arthur impression. It's like, yeah, you'll never get out of the way. And then like it's kind of whereas Ethel's is so light and fluffy, like a yummy pastry, Angela's feels very thin when it gets to the top.

[1:03:12] Daniel Nolen: No, totally.

[1:03:14] Ben Rimalower: Way from me. You know, it's a little thin. I I'm a little worried for her. I think the song is like maybe a little too rangy for her.

[1:03:23] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah.

[1:03:24] Ben Rimalower: And so then she just sort of is barely able to accommodate it.

[1:03:29] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I I think a lot of these songs sit really well in her voice, but there are either there are even uh especially Rose's turn, but I think they change the keys.

[1:03:38] Ben Rimalower: Oh, all of them are in different keys.

[1:03:40] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. I mean it's like Rose's turn, it's like in the middle of the song. They like change the key.

[1:03:44] Ben Rimalower: Oh, oh.

[1:03:46] Daniel Nolen: It's so bizarre, but um strange. Anyway, so yeah, this one definitely, I was like, Whoa, this sounds really low for her. Probably like you're saying, because it was too it's too the high notes are too high.

[1:03:56] Ben Rimalower: Right, yeah. Um, the the Times is really nice. I mean, this song I'm a little less easily sold just by virtue of the nice way she sings it.

[1:04:07] Daniel Nolen: I will say Jonathan Hidari is the gay musical theater um herbie. Uh I very much enjoy him in this song. I'm not sure that I approve of it, but I very much enjoy it.

[1:04:22] Ben Rimalower: And um uh Amelda honestly, like, is kind of tame in this. I mean, uh, it's not it's nowhere near horrendous the way I would have imagined her being. I mean, honestly, in that for this song, Imelda placed above Patty for me.

[1:04:38] Daniel Nolen: Wow.

[1:04:39] Ben Rimalower: Uh well, um, so just uh to rehash uh your choices for this song are what?

[1:04:47] Daniel Nolen: My choices are Ethel, Bernadette, and Bet.

[1:04:50] Ben Rimalower: And mine are Angela, Ethel, and Tyne.

[1:04:54] Daniel Nolen: Hmm.

[1:04:55] Ben Rimalower: I I wouldn't, I bet could be up there. I would put Bet before Tyne, actually. Um yours are Ethel, yours are Ethel, Tyne, uh Ethel, Bet, and who?

[1:05:06] Daniel Nolen: Angela, Ethel, Bet.

[1:05:08] Ben Rimalower: Angela Ethel, Bet Tyne. I'm kind of a four-way on that.

[1:05:12] Daniel Nolen: Okay.

[1:05:12] Ben Rimalower: Um, and then the voters chose Angela Patty Bet.

[1:05:12] Daniel Nolen: Angela Patty Bet.

[1:05:22] Ben Rimalower: So I mean, I I mean, I know this is kind of the problem we're coming up against in all the other songs, but like Bet and Ethel. I mean, I don't think Patty should be in the running. I mean, out of out of the listeners, I think Bet is the right choice. But I know you and I also really love Ethel on this song.

[1:05:43] Daniel Nolen: Alright, I'm writing Ethel in.

[1:05:45] Ben Rimalower: Me too. Um I'm I'm keeping Bet, and I'm also keeping Angela since I had her first, and the listeners had her first.

[1:05:53] Daniel Nolen: Okay, cool. Um then, uh wow, okay, moving right along. Coming up roses was not an expression before Gypsy.

[1:06:04] Ben Rimalower: Really?

[1:06:05] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:06:05] Ben Rimalower: Wait, so everything's coming up roses.

[1:06:09] Daniel Nolen: Uh oh, hello.

[1:06:12] Ben Rimalower: Um that was Stephen Sondheim made that up.

[1:06:16] Daniel Nolen: He made that up.

[1:06:17] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[1:06:18] Daniel Nolen: And I I think Jerome Robbins' response was everything's coming up roses, what?

[1:06:25] Ben Rimalower: Oh.

[1:06:28] Daniel Nolen: It's very um Leoy Reims, Florence Lacey. Hashtag shit Ken Russell says. Um, it uh, I mean, it just first of all, it's so I mean the songs in Gypsy in a way, they're kind of all standards, they're musical theater standards. But this song is like really a standard. I mean, it's just permeated the world.

[1:06:45] Ben Rimalower: Totally.

[1:06:50] Daniel Nolen: Well, in our uh next year some year episode a few weeks ago in our Name That Belt segment, I that this was the song I chose, and there is such a treasure trove out there of all these people who've covered it, you know, from Rosemary Clooney to uh uh Billy Porter on uh some award show recently. It's like it's a it's a big deal, and people are still singing it. However, there was only one person whom I wish to hear sing it.

[1:07:20] Ben Rimalower: Absolutely.

[1:07:22] Daniel Nolen: Absolutely. I was trying when I was walking today from my doctor's appointment, I was trying to find the words to describe uh Ms. Lupone's version of this song. I mean, transcendent, definitive, otherworldly, doesn't even begin to scratch the surface. I mean, I I can just say that her Tony Awards performance of the song actually preach. It if I have to choose, it would eclipse her Avita Tony Awards performance for me.

[1:07:59] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, for sure. I never would have thought that her singing a standard and a revival would become that iconic. But she just she acts it and sings it so perfectly and so full throttle.

[1:08:16] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. And it's, you know, for like I was, I was trying to listen to all the other versions and and and see, you know, like, for example, thinking about like Bette Midler, like the thing about Bette compared to these other ladies is that I think Bet thinks musical theater is cheesy.

[1:08:33] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[1:08:34] Daniel Nolen: So like Bet is good when she does the ballads because she gets ballads. And when it's about making fun of musical theater, like being like, ha venegral, Mr. Gold Sound. And it's like that Bet can do. But you know, when you have to be like musical theater is how I communicate the passion of my soul. And like Bet doesn't do that. Her belting on everything's coming up roses, it's like Sutton Foster in anything goes.

[1:09:05] Ben Rimalower: Yes, yes.

[1:09:06] Daniel Nolen: It's more of that like Ethel Merman impression, you know.

[1:09:09] Ben Rimalower: Everything's coming up roses.

[1:09:11] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, you know. And and then if you're not like a really powerful belter, you know, a melda and tyne, this song, they can't really, they can't sell it to me because they can't get there. You know, they're not terrifying by virtue of their voice. And and Angela's different, you know, Angela can act her way through it in a way that works powerfully, but her vocals are also very strong on this song.

[1:09:38] Ben Rimalower: They're very strong, they're very strong.

[1:09:40] Daniel Nolen: But it's but it they're not rich and thrilling on their own terms the way Patty's are.

[1:09:45] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[1:09:46] Daniel Nolen: And and then Bernadette, it's like she's just working so hard to get there that it's it defeats the the sort of prowess of the song.

[1:09:56] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, totally, totally. I mean, Patty's is such the perfect marriage of you know, song and performer, you know, what melody rhythm, whatever you want to break, however, you want to break it down. But it's like hearing, you know, Barbara sing people or you know, other other performers singing their song. This is not even Patty's signature song, but no, now it is, you know.

[1:10:18] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it is totally it's it's the and that's why I think it's such this song, maybe more than any other, is such a great example of why we're doing this project. Is because exploring what each lady, what strengths they bring to each song, and um why some work, why some don't. But this is the perfect example of when it works perfectly when when the lady brings her bag of tricks, you know, and tools to the to the project and really delivers well.

[1:10:52] Ben Rimalower: I I totally agree. I mean, in a way, it almost makes me forgive her like casual some people, because I'm like, oh shit, now the stakes are high for her, you know, and um also it's it's a testament to how right you are in terms of this being the perfect vehicle for Patty's specific uh ingredients.

[1:11:12] Ben Rimalower: Because um, first of all, you know, she's been criticized, you know. For people felt sometimes, I think some moments in Anything Goes that Patty had a little too much like darkness and drama, like that there's something a little bit too like um out for blood intrinsically about Patty. It's like when John Houseman, her acting teacher at Juilliard said that she has the smell of the gallows about her, you know, and it's like you can kind of you kind of feel that even when she's doing something ostensibly lighthearted like Reno Sweeney, you know, that she still cuts you, and like um it's uh it's notable here because when she does Everything's Coming Up Roses uh on the Jimmy Fallon show during the run of Gypsy.

[1:11:55] Daniel Nolen: Yes, that's the one we use for our intro, right?

[1:11:57] Ben Rimalower: Right, because it's it right exactly because she's wearing a cocktail dress and she's fun and she's warm, and it's not about convincing Louise or anything like that, and she doesn't have the set, and yet it works just as well.

[1:11:57] Daniel Nolen: Just as well.

[1:12:12] Ben Rimalower: Even happy-go-lucky Patty, there's still enough of that smell of the gallows in her that the song still has a certain uh drama that however effortless and thrilling the Merman version is, it will never have the intrinsic drama. Just, you know, at any given moment, you know that Patti LuPone's father didn't love her, and she's gonna punish the world for it the rest of her life.

[1:12:37] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:12:38] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, totally. Here's what I was gonna say is going back to that Tony Awards performance. The reason for me, I was when I first saw it, I was so blown away was because not only does she sound great, but she is so laser-focused.

[1:12:51] Daniel Nolen: Laser.

[1:12:52] Ben Rimalower: And it cuts through like a knife, like whatever screen you're watching on. You know, it's like they talk about Elizabeth Taylor's violet eyes piercing through the camera. Like that's what Patty's performance does. And I think it does it on the recording too when you're just listening to it.

[1:13:06] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:13:06] Ben Rimalower: And like you're saying, she has this, you know, the smell of the gallows, she has this kind of heft to her.

[1:13:12] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:13:13] Ben Rimalower: And um, but I think with something like uh Everything's Coming Up Roses, this it it's it's a big enough song where she can fully express herself vocally so she's not blue-balled. Some of this other song, it's like I feel like she's you know, she's just doing too much, and it's a little heavy-handed because she she knows she sounds good and she can sing all these notes and make all these choices, but it's like it kind of takes away from uh the the purity of the song. Whereas this one kind of it adds to it a big bombastic, you know, act one closer that it actually adds to it, and because it's artful, as you know, if Ethel Merman could sing this song 12 times in a row, and you'd never even know she was trying, right? Whereas Patty, there's actually work, her voice is not effortless the way Merman's is. And so the production that she puts actually becomes like well-done art as opposed to just the way she sounds, you know.

[1:14:12] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. It's yeah, it's it's uh and that there's textures and colors. I mean, the way her voice rises and crescendoes into this vocal line becomes so exciting. You fasten your seatbelts. I mean, it's about as close to sort of like a real kind of like Judy Garland level, like well-crafted vocal performance than Patty really ever has given.

[1:14:33] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:14:34] Daniel Nolen: And um, and and it's almost like the the having to work hard in a way gets her out of her own way. It's like she actually does the acting really perfectly in this because she's got to focus on the fucking hardcore belting, you know.

[1:14:48] Ben Rimalower: Right, right. Uh well, and the and you know, the acting, whenever she's it's it's like the um, I mean, they teach you a lot about this in in uh voice lessons, but when you are that in the zone with the vocals and the singing, like the acting just comes naturally, you know, it's like that that comes of itself, like totally you don't need to do anything. I mean, Patty herself talks about that because she's such a student of David Mamet's and his whole like you know, kind of controversial thing, I don't know, 20 years ago when he wrote that book True and False, or true false, true and false, true or false. Anyway, it was all about like he was saying that there is no character, and like the actor just needs to like sort of speak the words, you know.

And people quote the Shakespeare thing, speak the speech, I pray thee, and all that. And it's you know, it definitely was like a lot of good intention in terms of like getting some of the bullshit and like voodoo out of acting, you know.

[1:15:43] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, and in a sense, that's what makes Merman great. But it's it it it really all comes together so right in Patty's version of this.

[1:15:51] Ben Rimalower: Um it sure does. It's and uh with that said, my favorite's Bernadette.

[1:15:56] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:15:58] Ben Rimalower: Can you imagine? Um, so the uh my I think I I only had Patty for this. Did you have anybody else even on your list?

[1:16:07] Daniel Nolen: I mean, Patty was my favorite by far, but then second was Angela, third was Ethel.

[1:16:12] Ben Rimalower: Got I I could subscribe to that. And then the voters chose in different order, but those three Patty, Ethel, Angela.

[1:16:14] Daniel Nolen: Ethel, Angela.

[1:16:22] Ben Rimalower: So we have a pretty resounding vote for Patty on this. But Patty, we have room to grow if we need to.

[1:16:27] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna put this in the in the uh finished some some people pile, yeah, with Bernadette, some people, because I feel pretty confident.

[1:16:36] Ben Rimalower: True. I mean, in fact, those those two assignments are while I brought an open heart to this process, Bernadette, some people and Patty's Everything's Coming Up Roses. I came into this wanting to assign, you know.

[1:16:48] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah.

[1:16:50] Ben Rimalower: Um, okay, so next up, uh, Together Wherever We Go.

[1:16:50] Daniel Nolen: Together wherever we go.

[1:16:55] Ben Rimalower: Um which um depending on which recording you're listening to is sometimes just called Together, sometimes just called Together, comma wherever we go, sometimes it's called together dash wherever we go. I mean, uh, it can't get its shit together.

[1:17:11] Daniel Nolen: I have to say, I actually feel almost as strongly in this one that really all I want to listen to is Ethel.

[1:17:19] Ben Rimalower: Um, I honestly think she's the only one of these dumb hotels who realizes there's a frickin' melody here.

[1:17:25] Daniel Nolen: Well, and and uh uh hers is very is a lot slower too, which um I like it here. For some people, I don't like that, but for this one I like it.

[1:17:35] Ben Rimalower: Yes, I want I she's like wherever we go. That's what I want. I I I don't want Bernadette and Patty doing their weird acting and belting and shit.

[1:17:46] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:17:47] Ben Rimalower: I I want to hear the tune.

[1:17:50] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:17:50] Ben Rimalower: Um, I mean, Patti's just really kills me. I feel like it's actually a musical. Um you know, and and she does these like um that you know, she starts off really out of tempo. Um I could get behind that if she did it in a way that was like motivated by acting, but she uses it as uses it as an excuse to do like a weird vocal exercise.

[1:18:17] Daniel Nolen: Well, I don't like Patty's either, but the one that I hate the most is Bet's.

[1:18:21] Ben Rimalower: Yes, Bet does that fake fucking sit and foster anything goes wrong. It's like a fucking what's like a like a Texas accent. She's like, wherever we go, whatever. I'm like, what I do enjoy when she goes, amigos.

[1:18:34] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I do like that.

[1:18:35] Ben Rimalower: So Bet. But um it's it's like Dolly, she does like her weird Irish brogue for like one phrase. It's like, what the hell? I mean, in Dolly, I feel like you're allowed to do whatever you want, but not in Gypsy.

[1:18:42] Daniel Nolen: Not in Gypsy.

[1:18:48] Ben Rimalower: And oh god. And it's so it's just right right out the gate. Wherever we go. But here's my controversial thought: is like I kind of felt that way in this number about Bernadette, too. Uh like not so much vocally, but I feel like she's like pretending to be Rose and she isn't here.

[1:19:08] Daniel Nolen: There's really I I can't even recall Bernadette's right now. There's really only two that I liked, which I'll just tell you was Angela and Ethel.

[1:19:16] Ben Rimalower: Yes. Angela is great here.

[1:19:18] Daniel Nolen: Angela, Angela is my favorite just because it has a lot of like uh Mame, we need a little Christmas energy. Like what what Marilyn May calls marching around the breakfast table music. And I just love that when Angela leans into that kind of energy.

[1:19:35] Ben Rimalower: But I also love Ethel's because, like you're saying, she actually sings it. Angela is the only person from whom I can buy the lyric. She's like, if I start to dance.

[1:19:46] Daniel Nolen: Because my personal hell is hearing Patty go, if I saw to dance.

[1:19:52] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, which why?

[1:19:54] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, and Angela's like weird charactery Mrs. Lovett voice on a song like this, I enjoy it. By the way, if Bernadette gives you five die, won't be from sitting. It'll be from fighting to get up and get out. Some people can get a thrill, knitting sweaters and sitting still. Patty is the frickin' opposite. Patty is like, Patty is like, if I die, it won't be from sit from sitting. It'll be from fighting. And then here, she's just like, Patty's Rose. I get that she's like someone who like aspires to be a fancy lady. But like, I, you know, if I saw it to a dance, we're all Z. I just like sometimes I I really turn into a hater for a moment at a time.

[1:20:39] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:20:40] Ben Rimalower: Who do you think you are?

[1:20:41] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, who do you think you are, LePone?

[1:20:45] Ben Rimalower: Oh my god. Okay, well, so for this one, Angela and Ethel, top two above all else. I will say I also enjoy Tyne in this song.

[1:20:53] Daniel Nolen: Um poor thing, she's using everything she's got to get this melody out, and like it ain't a lot.

[1:21:00] Ben Rimalower: I did not enjoy Tyne in this one, but she but I did place Tyne of a bet, I will say.

[1:21:05] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah.

[1:21:06] Ben Rimalower: Um, so yours, sorry, say you're top for this.

[1:21:10] Daniel Nolen: Angela and Ethel.

[1:21:12] Ben Rimalower: Mine were Ethel, then Angela, and then the Oh, sorry, no, those are the voters. The voters were Ethel, Angela, Patty, and mine was just Ethel.

[1:21:21] Daniel Nolen: Um voters were Ethel, Angela, Patty, and yours was just Ethel.

[1:21:27] Ben Rimalower: So I have the system. Um I'm gonna bold Ethel and Angela for now, and we can just come back.

[1:21:35] Daniel Nolen: Okay, so those, oh, I this this is making our job easier because there's so uh we're left with a lot of the same people, so it'll be easier to hopefully divvy them up accordingly.

[1:21:47] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah. Um right, brother.

[1:21:50] Daniel Nolen: Oh fuck.

[1:21:51] Ben Rimalower: I didn't even realize.

[1:21:52] Daniel Nolen: Oh my goodness, it's come so soon.

[1:21:54] Ben Rimalower: I wasn't ready.

[1:21:55] Daniel Nolen: And now the end is near.

[1:21:58] Ben Rimalower: Okay, I'm taking a shot of kombucha.

[1:22:01] Daniel Nolen: All right, we need to go chronologically through the ladies and just talk about what they did.

[1:22:06] Ben Rimalower: All right, this is the one I I really listened to and did my homework today with. I mean, I I done it all week, but I revisited.

[1:22:14] Daniel Nolen: Same, same, same.

[1:22:15] Ben Rimalower: Um, well, chronologically, we'll start with Ethel.

[1:22:18] Daniel Nolen: Ethel Merman.

[1:22:20] Ben Rimalower: I mean, one thing I will say in general to begin with about Ethel's Rose's Turn is that like you just really feel that it was written for Ethel. And Ethel's playing on every single line of this song is crystal clear. Clear, concise, and pleasing to listen to. And it makes a hundred percent sense. You know, everybody else, even the best Roses. Uh, there's a little bit when they're done singing Rose's Turn, it's a little bit like Sending the Clowns, where you're like, Well, what did you think it meant? Whereas like Ethel Merman's like, you know what she meant.

[1:23:01] Daniel Nolen: Right, right, right.

[1:23:01] Ben Rimalower: And um, uh, so there's just like something to be said for like the song, just like making complete sense. And like, another thing that I really appreciated about Ethel is like, you know, the opposite of where I said I felt like Betty Buckley played Rose's Turn like from the beginning of the show. I feel like Ethel doesn't even start playing Rose's Turn until halfway through Rose's Turn. Like at the beginning of the song, she's like doing a fucking vaudeville. I mean, in that strip routine, like um some people got it and make it pay. She is having a good time. Not a like crazy mad woman, good time like on drugs, like acid trip, like a good time. Bring the kids. Like, she is just having a party.

[1:23:48] Daniel Nolen: And um, it's kind of infectious.

[1:23:52] Ben Rimalower: Um, it's it's very strange in the sense that like vocally it's so effortless, but also she growls so much.

[1:24:01] Daniel Nolen: Oh my god, the growling um uh uh oh god, what part is it? It's uh it's the whole thing. She's like, here she is, boys, here she is, world! Here's Rose. Some people I mean, she's growling every word.

[1:24:17] Ben Rimalower: There's a there's also a run. I can't think of what it is, but there's a run of of words or uh yeah.

[1:24:24] Daniel Nolen: Would you be uh oh yes.

[1:24:27] Ben Rimalower: But every yeah, it's like it's a and it's the it's the same, it's consistent. The same amount of growl. I mean, it is insane, but it's just like as if she like it's like an Instagram filter on her voice.

[1:24:45] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, very that.

[1:24:47] Ben Rimalower: It's so perfect and and uh equally distributed throughout. It's you know, so yeah, I I I love her version. It's up there for me. It might be a little too effortless.

[1:24:59] Daniel Nolen: Um I don't mind that.

[1:25:02] Ben Rimalower: With Ethel, I don't mind that because um I I still do get, especially when she kind of reaches the point of no return. Um, you know, why did I do it? I do kind of hear a change in her and it becomes a little more rabid. But like still less rabid than Bernadette in Some People. I mean, I I guess you know what it is, it's not that she's too effortless.

[1:25:25] Ben Rimalower: I mean, she is crazy amount of effortlessness, but like it's that I I never feel like she's lost it at all. Like I feel like she gets angry, but like I I mean, the only way that Ethel Merman sounds a little crazy in Rose's turn is the way that like Ethel Merman always sounds a little crazy. But like she I I just like I'm not saying she needs to be like taken away like to the loony bin, like streetcar named Desire at the end. But like I would like to see just like one moment where she like is a little bit like whoa, which way is this gonna go? And I feel like it never feels like that.

[1:26:06] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I I feel that. I get that. Um all right. Well, moving on chronologically, someone who 100,000 percent absolutely goes there. Like, I mean, Angela plays all 12 ways till crazy, and then ones you didn't think of, and then back again and then there again and then back again.

[1:26:25] Ben Rimalower: She sure does. Um, my only problem with Angela's is like I said earlier, those weird key changes, it kind of ruins it for me. Um Do you feel that way on the video too?

[1:26:37] Daniel Nolen: No, I mean on the video, it's it's just so thrilling and I love it so much. But yeah, when I'm just listening to it, you know, because we all know this song, and you know, we hum along or whatever, and then these parts come and it suddenly keys itself down, and it's just kind of like uh kind of trips me up. Um I didn't notice, but I wonder if that's why or one of the reasons why it's like not up there for me.

[1:27:01] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I mean, but to be honest, I love except really Amelda, even though watching Amelda do it on screen, I I um uh I really did love her performance. I kind of love everyone in this song. I mean, all of these ladies I think bring something really special to it. This is how they get the part, you know. Um I mean, the one thing about Angela, even on the album, I mean, her first of all, her intro dialogue is fucking stunning. And like yes, her transition from it being like even more than Merman in a way, she really plays the fun at the beginning. And then she goes to this like introspective thing that is like so compelling.

[1:27:46] Daniel Nolen: I mean, it's chilling. You just do not see it coming. And also, like Angela is not introspective on the rest of like they all have some introspection mixed in in the earlier songs and whatever. Like Angela plays the whole thing, like just like the opening number of Main. And then she gets to this moment, and all of a sudden it's like, whoa, mom, don't do that. It's scary when you do that.

[1:28:10] Ben Rimalower: I'm so glad you said, I'm so glad you said introspection, because that kind of provided a piece of the puzzle for me. You know, when people do this, not just these ladies, but when people do it in a cabaret or for even karaoke, sometimes uh they lean too much into like the crazy physical, mental, angry breakdown that it kind of gets to all over the place.

[1:28:32] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[1:28:33] Ben Rimalower: Angela's, I think the way you said it is so right. Like she gets so introspective. It's like you can tell this character is still having this struggle and this breakdown, but it's it's still in keeping with uh Angela and how she chooses to play it, and it's not crazy and all over the place and messy, and but it still feels like not messy.

[1:28:54] Daniel Nolen: It's funny.

[1:28:54] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, Angela at her craziest kind of goes crazier than any of them, but it's never messy. When Angela's crazy, she doesn't know she's crazy.

[1:29:06] Daniel Nolen: As opposed to some of the other ones that have a little bit of like a girl interrupted quality of like everything's fucked. I don't know why, I don't know. And like Angela is a little bit like, I'm not crazy. We just live on Mars.

[1:29:20] Ben Rimalower: Right. I mean, it's very uh, you know, uh, her character, Salome Autoborn in Death on the Nile. It's very Mrs. Lovett, you know, it's she's she's kind of like dear world.

[1:29:31] Daniel Nolen: It's very dear world.

[1:29:34] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, it's like she's it's it's like she's she's kind of fucked up in the head, but it's kind of like you know, a homeless person or a crazy person who approaches you on the street and is just like Jesus is coming.

[1:29:45] Daniel Nolen: You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:29:47] Ben Rimalower: You know, the devil's gonna get you. You know, it's just so it's so calm, but it's still crazy.

[1:29:51] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, they're like, you're gonna fry in hell, have a nice day.

[1:29:54] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah. And you're like, oh fuck. So it's like it it serves its purpose, but it's not uh yeah, in your face and overblown.

[1:30:04] Daniel Nolen: Well, uh next up is one that I wish I liked more than I do. Um I love the beginning with Tyne.

[1:30:14] Ben Rimalower: I love how she undersells the stripper stuff.

[1:30:18] Daniel Nolen: Like, I feel like everybody else is like, you like and Tyne's like, you either got it or ain't boys. I got it.

[1:30:28] Ben Rimalower: And she's just so like this is I'm so nervous for this one.

[1:30:32] Daniel Nolen: I you and I are so opposite, I feel like on this song.

[1:30:35] Ben Rimalower: So I like really enjoy that part where she does that. Um, but then like I don't know, like I kind of just like uh the transition is very good. Like definitely like the like the like important acting beats when it goes dark. I'm with her.

[1:30:51] Daniel Nolen: Um but I don't it's like I I feel like at the end of it, I the truth is I really like Tyne's version. And I'm sure that if I'd seen her live on stage, I would have really, really, really loved it. But like I feel like, and maybe it's why she hates the album, because maybe she was different, but like it's so conversational, where like I just need more voice from her and she doesn't have it.

[1:31:13] Ben Rimalower: And so it it kind of doesn't add up for me at the end of the day, even though like I respect it.

[1:31:21] Daniel Nolen: See, for me, I I loved Tyne's, I love Tyne on this one more than any of the other songs because you know, I mean, she she does the great, she does great acting, and I'm kind of like so drawn into that, but also this this song, she kind of makes these choices where she speaks, sings a lot of it, and but I I I kind of like that.

[1:31:40] Ben Rimalower: And then at the end, I think I I just get chills, and it pinned me against the wall when I first heard her final uh for me.

[1:31:50] Daniel Nolen: That's where I was really like I couldn't think it. I lived, I love that. I thought I thought it was it shivers.

[1:31:59] Ben Rimalower: Um like I would have rather had her try to belt it and crack. Like I think she does melt it okay at the end when she the very end, but it kind of looks almost like a Bernadette thing. It's you know, she kind of goes full.

[1:32:11] Daniel Nolen: I mean, I I'm the first to criticize Bernadette, especially in this role, but like it's different.

[1:32:19] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I feel like Tyne is making like conservative choices with her voice. And that's it just like sounds too so like controlled and careful. Like I felt like she was like not giving it her all because she thought they might need to do another take, you know.

[1:32:35] Daniel Nolen: Right, right. Um okay, well, okay, who's next?

[1:32:39] Ben Rimalower: Well, Winifred Sanderson.

[1:32:42] Daniel Nolen: All right, here's here's where we get into it.

[1:32:45] Ben Rimalower: I fucking love Bette Midler's Rose's turn.

[1:32:49] Daniel Nolen: Interesting.

[1:32:50] Ben Rimalower: I love it so much. Um it's uh it's very vagus y.

[1:32:59] Daniel Nolen: Um, but I just love the riffs she chooses to do, kind of at the end.

[1:33:05] Ben Rimalower: Um doubt.

[1:33:09] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, she sounds but she also plays she also gets to the crazy in a way that she plays crazy in some of her movie roles, you know, in the way that, you know, in First Wives Club, where she the kitchen fight, she's like two pinheads.

[1:33:22] Ben Rimalower: Yes, exactly. She gets really like angry and and narcissistic and in a cartoonish way.

[1:33:23] Daniel Nolen: In a cartoonish way.

[1:33:30] Ben Rimalower: But I I really live for it. And I again I said I I'm not proud of this, but I get why you would love it.

[1:33:36] Daniel Nolen: Honestly, I do I don't hate it. I just don't like it the way I like the other ones.

[1:33:41] Ben Rimalower: I mean, she's the you know, everyone talked about Bernadette, and then some of the fans talked about Patty, but Bette is truly the sexy one. I mean, her mama's like she is Bet, like, you know, such a part of her stage persona is this whole like Mae West thing.

[1:34:02] Daniel Nolen: And like, sh duh, she's Gypsy Rose Lee and the whole thing.

[1:34:06] Ben Rimalower: I mean, that's what Rose would be doing too. And and she 100% brings that in.

[1:34:11] Daniel Nolen: And the actual true introspection moments are very well acted.

[1:34:16] Ben Rimalower: Like, she goes deep into her soul in a really beautiful way. Um, but it just starts off so cartoony, and it's a little bit of that like joking, like like I just keep picturing her with like the buck teeth from like focus pocus.

[1:34:32] Daniel Nolen: Like Yeah, it is very no, it is very that.

[1:34:35] Ben Rimalower: And it is very, you know, the way she does hello, my name is Rose. It's very like, hello, Salem.

[1:34:40] Daniel Nolen: My name's yours.

[1:34:43] Ben Rimalower: That's why I love it. And I know it's because it taps into my childhood nostalgia and my love of Bet in those movies. I know it's not the right choice, but I it's my truth.

[1:34:52] Daniel Nolen: If I had to choose one Desert Island, Rose's turn movie.

[1:34:55] Ben Rimalower: Fascinating. Now I want everyone to know that I'm hearing this for the first time.

[1:34:59] Daniel Nolen: All now, like we said, on the Twitter poll, one never knew who anyone was voting for.

[1:35:06] Ben Rimalower: We just got the statistics.

[1:35:07] Daniel Nolen: But on the Instagram poll, we had to see and actually tally each vote that we got, right? And um, even though Daniel and I were not talking to each other about who we were voting for because we wanted to save it for the pod, we would see on each other's Instagram, and I would always vote on Daniel's Instagram because I wanted him to be higher in the algorithm, and you know, vice versa.

[1:35:30] Ben Rimalower: So we just had to like contribute, you know.

[1:35:33] Daniel Nolen: But Daniel was careful and did not vote on my Instagram on Rose's turn.

[1:35:38] Ben Rimalower: So this is my first time hearing this, and I'm fascinated.

[1:35:42] Daniel Nolen: I support you.

[1:35:42] Ben Rimalower: I mean, but I really didn't know at that point.

[1:35:45] Daniel Nolen: I mean, it took me a long time to decide, you know, because I was also, like I said earlier, I was grappling with what does Rose's turn mean to me, you know, and what do I want from this song?

[1:35:56] Ben Rimalower: And I eventually arrived at, well, I'm just gonna treat this, you know, my interpretation of this is the we're making a gypsy playlist, this is the playlist I want to listen to.

[1:36:06] Daniel Nolen: If I was on a desert island, all my favorite rose roses singing these different songs.

[1:36:11] Ben Rimalower: And the one I just kept coming back to, listening to, like I wanted to listen to it even without the project. Like, I wanted to listen to it when I was walking today just for fun. It's Bette Midler's.

[1:36:20] Daniel Nolen: I mean, I I get it.

[1:36:21] Ben Rimalower: Honestly, the way she belts the end of Rose's turn, if she had done more of that and less of like the jokey pretend Death Lerman voice.

[1:36:32] Daniel Nolen: I would have been more into her rose.

[1:36:35] Ben Rimalower: You know?

[1:36:35] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:36:39] Ben Rimalower: Uh so anyway.

[1:36:42] Daniel Nolen: Moving on to someone else who has got it.

[1:36:45] Ben Rimalower: Mm-hmm.

[1:36:47] Daniel Nolen: Is three time Tony Award winner.

[1:36:49] Ben Rimalower: Thank you very much.

[1:36:51] Daniel Nolen: Three, not two.

[1:36:58] Ben Rimalower: Yes, Bernadette Lazara.

[1:37:00] Daniel Nolen: Slow it down, bitch.

[1:37:03] Ben Rimalower: From the opening of this, I made you. I'm like, everybody, drop what you're doing.

[1:37:13] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, that that line, that that line reading walked.

[1:37:17] Ben Rimalower: So Laura Benante's um, it's my life could have been.

[1:37:22] Daniel Nolen: Totally.

[1:37:23] Ben Rimalower: I mean, uh, that line reading alone walks very slowly to Marissa Jarrett Winoker's house in Hollywood into her dining room, breaks the glass, takes that Tony Award down.

[1:37:41] Daniel Nolen: Carries it back to New York, puts it in Bernadette's house on the upper west side, right above that dog bed.

[1:37:47] Ben Rimalower: Before the dog bed, all before she even gets to the lyrics.

[1:37:55] Daniel Nolen: So well put, so true.

[1:37:56] Ben Rimalower: Um yeah, I mean, great. I love it. I mean, I always loved her doing this in the show. I remember thinking that her mama's like, you know, it she did like the James Lepine Mamas, you know?

[1:38:13] Daniel Nolen: Like it was finally, like, that's such a part of Rose's turn that is so Santheimian and not Julie Steinian.

[1:38:21] Ben Rimalower: Okay.

[1:38:22] Daniel Nolen: Mm-hmm.

[1:38:22] Ben Rimalower: You know, it's that's not like there was no like moment like that in like Doray Me or whatever fucking like Julie Stein's shows besides this. You know, that is like Sondheim, like doing like psychological drama with like, you know, the word mama.

[1:38:36] Daniel Nolen: And like Bernadette is like, did somebody say Suntime?

[1:38:40] Ben Rimalower: You know, it's like, d. You know, and it and she's just, and you know, there's a reason that her Tony Awards clip of this is so iconic.

[1:38:50] Daniel Nolen: So great.

[1:38:51] Ben Rimalower: So great. And it was great also because I know that clip so well because I love it so much.

[1:38:56] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:38:57] Ben Rimalower: But that clip is, of course, an edited version of the song, truncated version of the song because Rose's turn is too long for the Tony Awards.

[1:39:05] Daniel Nolen: So it was refreshing to me to revisit Bernadette's full version of the song.

[1:39:11] Ben Rimalower: Yes. And like I really take the journey with her. I mean, right from that dialogue where she's just like, I don't think, you know, obviously Bernadette is one of the great Broadway musical stars of the last, you know, 50 years. But I don't think you could find any non-singing actor who could do better with the dialogue at the top of Rosa's turn than Bernadette does.

[1:39:34] Daniel Nolen: Yes, yes. You're very right on the money with that. She's just nailing it.

[1:39:38] Ben Rimalower: And, you know, and you know, uh nope, she doesn't do like sort of vampy sexy as hardcore here as Bette does it here.

[1:39:46] Daniel Nolen: But Bernadette is pretty sexy in the stripped routine.

[1:39:50] Ben Rimalower: And what she does, um, uh, and boys, I got it.

[1:39:55] Daniel Nolen: You like it?

[1:39:57] Ben Rimalower: Um it's so fucking I'm not even doing it harmony doing it justice because she actually does something really musical there.

[1:40:04] Daniel Nolen: But doesn't she all like uh in the in the YouTube uh the uh Tony's clip, doesn't she actually like show her tits?

[1:40:11] Ben Rimalower: Like she pulls down her cleavage a bit.

[1:40:14] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it's sexy, but it's just the way she does with her voice.

[1:40:17] Ben Rimalower: Bette does like a May West impression or something on the with the breathiness, you know.

[1:40:21] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, or Marilyn Monroe.

[1:40:22] Ben Rimalower: But but Bernadette is very sexy, and you can feel her tits the way she sings it.

[1:40:26] Daniel Nolen: But the way she adds like the way she's from her tits.

[1:40:29] Ben Rimalower: She does.

[1:40:30] Daniel Nolen: When she sings that line, you like it.

[1:40:32] Ben Rimalower: It's so beautiful and sexy and special.

[1:40:36] Daniel Nolen: And that's the other thing about Bernadette's, it's true of Bernadette in any role.

[1:40:40] Ben Rimalower: And it's just like really important when she does it in in Rose's turn, because Bernadette makes everything her own.

[1:40:49] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:40:49] Ben Rimalower: You know, and people talk about like wear the dress, don't let the dress wear you.

[1:40:53] Daniel Nolen: And if there was ever material that like the song sings you instead of vice versa, like some of this shit here, it's like frankly, you know, I get I think that Sondheim wasn't allowed to really like write original tunes for Gypsy, but he didn't trust Julie Stein.

[1:41:11] Ben Rimalower: This is my hypothesizing.

[1:41:13] Daniel Nolen: You know, Sondheim couldn't just write a song Sweeney Todd style and stick it in gypsy.

[1:41:18] Ben Rimalower: It had to be Julie Stein's music.

[1:41:20] Daniel Nolen: But I don't think Sondheim or Arthur Lawrence trusted Julie Stein to deliver what they needed dramatically for the 11 o'clock number for Rose.

[1:41:29] Ben Rimalower: And so I think Sondheim just like took melodies Julie Stein had already written and created Rose's turn all by himself, chopping and dicing and rewriting.

[1:41:39] Daniel Nolen: And because of that, that's part of the reason that the song is such a bitch and such a monster for someone to like sort of like track coherently, you know.

[1:41:49] Ben Rimalower: And nobody is better at that than Bernadette because it's anything Bernadette does sounds like it came from inside her fucking freak show head, you know.

[1:41:59] Daniel Nolen: Totally.

[1:42:00] Ben Rimalower: Well, and also like you were saying earlier about the you know sexiness, she sings from her tits.

[1:42:05] Daniel Nolen: Bernadette's also always had this kind of pinup quality, you know, for a while.

[1:42:09] Ben Rimalower: She was she was very sexy.

[1:42:11] Daniel Nolen: Um, she's on Playboy magazine.

[1:42:13] Ben Rimalower: Uh so it's just interesting, just the in the within the context of this show about her daughter becoming a stripper, then Bernadette, someone who's always been seen as um objectively sexy.

[1:42:25] Daniel Nolen: I don't know, just just seeing her seeing this type of number and and trying to seduce is it's all kind of meta.

[1:42:30] Ben Rimalower: No, totally.

[1:42:31] Daniel Nolen: I mean, you if Bernadette, if if Bernadette as Rose thinks if she ever let it out, she would have been bigger than any of them.

[1:42:38] Ben Rimalower: As the audience, we're like, yeah, absolutely, you would have been.

[1:42:41] Daniel Nolen: Right, right.

[1:42:42] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:42:42] Daniel Nolen: And as opposed to like an Imelda when you see her trying to seduce the audience.

[1:42:46] Ben Rimalower: I'm sure you would have been delusional.

[1:42:48] Daniel Nolen: But like, um, but but but Bernadette also sets that on its head here.

[1:42:53] Ben Rimalower: Like she turns that around.

[1:42:54] Daniel Nolen: I mean, when she gets to like and this peoples and she's like spreading it on.

[1:43:00] Ben Rimalower: I mean, she gets nasty on that.

[1:43:03] Daniel Nolen: And not just nasty in a sexual way, but nasty, like she does not mind popping a blood vessel in her throat on that.

[1:43:10] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[1:43:10] Daniel Nolen: Well, then yeah, it's almost like then she's about to like sexually harass you or something.

[1:43:15] Ben Rimalower: Totally, you know, and um, and and I just like I said, I mean, just her mama's like I really track her journey.

[1:43:24] Daniel Nolen: Like, I feel like she keeps failing and then trying something different to make sense of this, what's going on in her mind.

[1:43:31] Ben Rimalower: And I'm just with her 100% of the way.

[1:43:34] Daniel Nolen: And also, Bernadette has kind of that baby voice anyway.

[1:43:38] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:43:38] Daniel Nolen: So, like her mama's, it just adds another layer.

[1:43:41] Ben Rimalower: And totally.

[1:43:43] Daniel Nolen: Um, and you know, and it's just it's it's this crazy thing that happens with her because we're in something that is such a Sondheim song.

[1:43:52] Ben Rimalower: I mean, like I said in my hypothesis, it's the original Sondheim song on Broadway.

[1:43:58] Daniel Nolen: And nobody is more suited for that than Bernadette.

[1:44:02] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:44:03] Daniel Nolen: But then also there's a little bit of a sense of like, you know, Bernadette kind of doesn't quite have all the voice she would want to have.

[1:44:14] Ben Rimalower: I mean, you know, this is a song that sort of demands you to be Ethel Merman or Patti LuPone.

[1:44:19] Daniel Nolen: Um, and you know, uh, and indeed, even Patti's version, she kind of runs out of steam some, you know, or at the very least, she has to start like kind of like budgeting a little because it's insane what happens vocally here.

[1:44:31] Ben Rimalower: So Bernadette is certainly just like keeps coming up empty on some of these lines, and yet she goes so balls to the wall.

[1:44:39] Daniel Nolen: There's not one drop of being conservative.

[1:44:42] Ben Rimalower: Bernadette is just gonna fucking like burn it all down.

[1:44:46] Daniel Nolen: Like she sings this song, you feel like eight shows a week, she didn't care if there was a matinee tomorrow.

[1:44:53] Ben Rimalower: She is just fucking living for Rose to just tear the roof down.

[1:44:57] Daniel Nolen: Totally.

[1:44:58] Ben Rimalower: And like we said with some people, it's like Bernadette is someone who communicates communicates desire and want so well.

[1:45:05] Daniel Nolen: Yep.

[1:45:06] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:45:07] Daniel Nolen: Um, who's next?

[1:45:09] Ben Rimalower: And I and honestly, it's also great because we think of Bernadette as being someone that's so smart and all her choices have been so perfect and wonderful all her career.

[1:45:18] Daniel Nolen: It's so great to hear her so crass.

[1:45:21] Ben Rimalower: They never cast her as crass.

[1:45:23] Daniel Nolen: You know, but when here she's like um uh uh you know everything's and she's like everything's coming up.

[1:45:33] Ben Rimalower: You know, I mean it's like is this like Rita Moreno on a gay cruise?

[1:45:36] Daniel Nolen: Like, but like it's just like you know, it's just so great to hear Bernadette just be like kind of like a nasty piece of work.

[1:45:43] Ben Rimalower: Um well speaking of nasty pieces of work before we get to to uh the the notorious PLP.

[1:45:50] Daniel Nolen: Should we even brush over Imelda?

[1:45:53] Ben Rimalower: I mean I know technically Imelda's last in the chronological lineup, but uh sure, we can do Imelda.

[1:45:58] Daniel Nolen: Let's do Imelda first because I I don't I mean on this song, she is my last choice.

[1:46:04] Ben Rimalower: Same.

[1:46:05] Daniel Nolen: So like I said, I really enjoy all of these ladies on this song.

[1:46:08] Ben Rimalower: Um and I loved Imelda's uh gypsy recording that I've I've watched online.

[1:46:14] Daniel Nolen: I I really I really don't hate it like some people do.

[1:46:17] Ben Rimalower: No, I like to watch it, I don't like to listen to it, but I do like to watch it.

[1:46:21] Daniel Nolen: I don't love listening to it, but I think she does a really good job with I mean she she she plays a breakdown really well.

[1:46:29] Ben Rimalower: Well, she's another one's Virginia Woolf.

[1:46:32] Daniel Nolen: And she knows how to make every line of this make sense.

[1:46:36] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[1:46:37] Daniel Nolen: It feels very actressy to me.

[1:46:40] Ben Rimalower: Like I just keep being like, that's a choice.

[1:46:42] Daniel Nolen: That's a choice, that's a choice.

[1:46:44] Ben Rimalower: But like they're all like smart choices that, or at least they all are thought fully thought through intelligently and intelligently communicated, you know.

[1:46:55] Daniel Nolen: Exactly.

[1:46:56] Ben Rimalower: Exactly, yeah.

[1:46:57] Daniel Nolen: Okay, so finally, Patti.

[1:47:00] Ben Rimalower: I mean uh I love the way it starts, that like evil cackle.

[1:47:06] Daniel Nolen: The evil cackle is wonderful.

[1:47:08] Ben Rimalower: I'm like, she is having fun like Ethel, and she's crazy with anger issues.

[1:47:14] Daniel Nolen: It's like it's it, it's like Patty is so like Jack Nicholson in the shining in this song.

[1:47:21] Ben Rimalower: Oh yeah, that's a good, that's a good um comparison.

[1:47:24] Daniel Nolen: Patty, Patty, I love the maniacal laugh.

[1:47:27] Ben Rimalower: Uh I love the I mean, no one, you know, like we said, um uh Bernadette really knows how to play need and want, like Patty, no one does anger quite like Patti LuPone.

[1:47:37] Daniel Nolen: No.

[1:47:38] Ben Rimalower: Um, and and and with such relish.

[1:47:40] Daniel Nolen: I mean, the way she uses her belt on just a random when she's like, you either have it, and it's just like this crazy ass huge uh belt note.

[1:47:51] Ben Rimalower: Because of course, in Patty's love language, what does having it mean?

[1:47:55] Daniel Nolen: Having it means being able to like just throw out a belt note that like explodes with us.

[1:48:01] Ben Rimalower: You know, yeah.

[1:48:02] Daniel Nolen: And it's just so right and perfect in that moment, you know.

[1:48:06] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I'm really just like coming when she sings have it.

[1:48:08] Daniel Nolen: It's and it in listening to it's it's uh it's like a roller coaster ride, you know.

[1:48:12] Ben Rimalower: And I think it really is.

[1:48:15] Daniel Nolen: Um with that said though, my only problem with Patty's version.

[1:48:20] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, is uh well before before you get to your problem, let me say more I like first before my problem.

[1:48:26] Daniel Nolen: Okay, okay, okay.

[1:48:27] Ben Rimalower: Um so I as far as the roller coaster, I'm so impressed with Patty in this because it's in that amazing Patty place of the you either have it.

[1:48:36] Daniel Nolen: I mean, it's basically a combination of everything's coming up roses and Evita put together, you know?

[1:48:42] Ben Rimalower: Um and then when she goes into the strip, to me, it is just perfection.

[1:48:48] Daniel Nolen: I mean, because and she's doing something she's never really done, which is like 100% just acting it and everything else comes second.

[1:48:58] Ben Rimalower: And it's so genius.

[1:48:59] Daniel Nolen: You really see what a formidable actress Patti LuPone is outside of musical theater.

[1:49:05] Ben Rimalower: The way she plays the what's yours, you know.

[1:49:08] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:49:09] Ben Rimalower: It's just so it's her choices are so huge.

[1:49:13] Daniel Nolen: Well, talk about Growl, her my name's Rose.

[1:49:16] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I mean, that's monstrous, you know.

[1:49:18] Daniel Nolen: And those choices are so huge, but they're so real and they're so believable.

[1:49:24] Ben Rimalower: She's so authentic.

[1:49:25] Daniel Nolen: When Patti does that stuff, it feels like it comes from the deepest truth of her, you know?

[1:49:31] Ben Rimalower: Um, it feels very real.

[1:49:33] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:49:33] Ben Rimalower: And it's that's what's so roller coastery about it at that point, is that it's taking these like sharp left turns to these crazy places, and it's completely earning them and completely pulling them off.

[1:49:45] Daniel Nolen: And it just keeps being really surprising.

[1:49:48] Ben Rimalower: When she gets to the um uh uh the whisper part, what's the um um yeah, um um uh mama's gonna show into that.

[1:49:58] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it's so inspired, you know.

[1:50:00] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, that's a brilliant choice.

[1:50:01] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:50:02] Ben Rimalower: Brilliant, you know, and and and sexy, you know.

[1:50:05] Daniel Nolen: I mean, the egg rolls is is is like something Bernadette would have done in Into the Woods, you know.

[1:50:10] Ben Rimalower: It's like so fun and fabulous.

[1:50:12] Daniel Nolen: And then her mamas, I think are truly frightening.

[1:50:17] Ben Rimalower: I mean, for my money, like that section with Patti is like, I I think more than any Rose before her, like, she's it's almost like scary, like it's a therapy session.

[1:50:33] Daniel Nolen: Like I feel like Patti is naked here, you know.

[1:50:37] Ben Rimalower: Um cathartic.

[1:50:39] Daniel Nolen: Like when she gets down to that um uh mama's gotta let go, which is so over the top and so insane.

[1:50:48] Ben Rimalower: I feel like I just like looked inside like her darkest.

[1:50:52] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[1:50:53] Ben Rimalower: That's like her rock bottom.

[1:50:54] Daniel Nolen: It's her rock bottom.

[1:50:55] Ben Rimalower: And it's just um so up until that point, I am with her a thousand percent.

[1:51:04] Daniel Nolen: Are you are you still with her at that point?

[1:51:06] Ben Rimalower: I'm I'm you know the thing is it's just um everything you're saying is right, and it's and that's why she is brilliant in this song.

[1:51:18] Daniel Nolen: But also sometimes listening to it, I think my problem is that there's so much going on.

[1:51:23] Ben Rimalower: Um at times it feels a little maybe heavy-handed.

[1:51:28] Daniel Nolen: And you definitely can't, if you're not with her while you're listening, like it was fine on stage, but like to listen to Patti's Rose's turn, if you don't pay 100% attention, if you tune out for a half a second, you're like, what the fuck is she talking about?

[1:51:44] Ben Rimalower: I don't buy this.

[1:51:46] Daniel Nolen: Whereas the other roses, you can like, you know, like uh, you know, hear somebody drop something in another room and you know, come back to it and you still get what's going on.

[1:51:57] Ben Rimalower: You know, right.

[1:51:59] Daniel Nolen: So I think, you know, that's my only problem with Patti's, is that I uh it's a little overwhelming, but maybe that's good, you know.

[1:52:07] Ben Rimalower: Well, but see, I feel like I can forgive that because I find that exciting as long as I fasten my seatbelt and stay with her.

[1:52:15] Daniel Nolen: Even here, when she gets to the I Had a Dreams, I feel like they're a little bit like Patti can't quite make sense of something musically in her voice, and so she's a little uncomfortable and it's a little bit cabaret singery.

[1:52:32] Ben Rimalower: Like I buy her, I don't, I don't turn on her here.

[1:52:37] Daniel Nolen: I'm like, I'm just like a little bit like uh uh.

[1:52:41] Ben Rimalower: Remember how the acting was in the driving seat this whole time?

[1:52:44] Daniel Nolen: I suddenly feel like it's not, and something weird is going on.

[1:52:48] Ben Rimalower: But then I find, but I'm not throwing her under the bus.

[1:52:52] Daniel Nolen: I'm just like a little unsure on the I Had a Dream lines.

[1:52:52] Ben Rimalower: I had a dream, a dream it wasn't for me.

[1:52:58] Daniel Nolen: I dreamed it for you, June.

[1:52:59] Ben Rimalower: It wasn't for me, Herbie.

[1:53:01] Daniel Nolen: But then when she gets back to her safe space of anger, and if it wasn't for me, then where would you be?

[1:53:08] Ben Rimalower: Miss Gypsy, Rosalie, and lands on her big belt voice.

[1:53:12] Daniel Nolen: I feel that she's 100%.

[1:53:15] Ben Rimalower: And I'm just like, I'm so there, and I'm like, I forgave whatever happened and fell off course there, and I'm totally with her.

[1:53:24] Daniel Nolen: But then uh gypsy Rosalie.

[1:53:29] Ben Rimalower: Then she goes to someone tell me when is it my turn?

[1:53:32] Daniel Nolen: Don't I get a dream for myself?

[1:53:34] Ben Rimalower: Uh-huh.

[1:53:34] Daniel Nolen: Um suddenly I feel like she's she doesn't trust herself, and she's rushing it.

[1:53:41] Ben Rimalower: Yes, and it feels really disjointed to me here.

[1:53:46] Daniel Nolen: And I feel like she's just kind of like, it's like the song is moving on, and like she has no choice but to like, because those lines are inherently disjointed anyway, the only way for it not to feel disjointed is if you are if the performer is like on a steady track that they know what they're doing, you know.

[1:54:06] Ben Rimalower: And here I feel like Patty is just like the song is like racing past, and so just each line she gets there and is like, I got it, I got it. And it's like they kind of make sense by themselves, but you kind of can't follow them. And uh it's it's why something like we said earlier, everything's coming up roses is so good for her because it's a steady uh track. Yeah, it allows her to stay on that track and and she's not in danger of falling off. Yes, like here, where it's like so yeah, disjointed. And so I you know, then I kind of feel like once she gets settled into the for me's she's like, she's like, okay, like I can take the craziness that's in me and I can perform that, and I don't have to make it agree with a song that's too crazy to begin with.

So I feel like when it gets to the really like free verse, like crazy shouting for me's, I can kind of get back on her side, and then definitely like for like the last one, she's like on home turf. She just has to like belt it and like, you know, it's kind of exciting. It's like the first time in Patti LuPone's entire life that like she had to like throw her voice out and kind of ultimately have it fail a little. And that's kind of exciting because it's Patti LuPone doing that, and like it's still so huge and big, and she slides up, and it's actually like, even though it's a shout, she winds up basically belting like a what is it, like in that video of Patti LuPone's vocal range. You know, it's actually like an A flat or something.

Like, you know, she actually like winds up just like doing some crazy high belt thing for no reason at all, other than just to be like, well, you know, darling, they said you're allowed to like scream and it doesn't have to sound good. So I'm gonna go crazy and high belts, you know. And it's just like um it, you know, I I kind of forgive her that, and because the song is about somebody going crazy so much. Um the fact that Patty loses control, uh, I'm kind of willing to forgive it because I was so with her and so thrilled by so much of what she did. In fairness, every single time I saw her do it live, I bought her 100%.

[1:56:21] Daniel Nolen: So I will say that if it's not if uh my choice for my top three on this in order are Patty Bernadette Ethel. Patty Bernadette Ethel. Whoa, no, no, no. I'm my god, I'm so stupid. I'm reading the vote totals. Uh my Jesus Christ. My choices on this song. Oh, mine are Patty Bernadette Ethel, also. Oh, and that's and that's in that order, is is the um the list. I was exactly the same as the listeners. Patty Bernadette, Ethel, Angela. Wow. Ethel Angela. All right. Well, um. I mean, my choices are very different, but Ethel is in there. My choices were Bet Ethel and Tyne. Fascinating. It's really Patty and Bernadette were right after. Um, but I I I'm really happy with anyone on this song. However, I let's let's I'm not ready to quite assign this one yet because I want to let's go back and assign these other smaller ones first. I'm keeping in my back pocket though, the fact that while there were many songs we considered Ethel four in this song, she is the only one who was in the top for me, you, and the voters.

[1:57:45] Ben Rimalower: Oh, in yes, that's very true. Very true. All right, so what do we know for sure? We know for sure that Bernadette is some people. We know for sure that everything's coming up roses is Patty. Yes, 100% signed, sealed, delivered. Um, so uh then let's see. Um small worlds. Let's let's work backwards. Okay. Let's let's together. Okay. Ethel or Angela. Um I loved Angela was my first, Ethel was my second on this one. What about you? Yours was Ethel was my first choice on this, but I did like Angela, and if we gave this to Angela, it would, you know, let's this if we give this Angela, it leaves a lot, you know, there would be more sense of Ethel being um, you know, appropriate for Rose's turn. Um but just even putting that on hold for a second.

Okay, um, you'll never get away from me. Never get away from me. Uh Angela, Patty, and Bet, which I Angela was not in my top three for this one. Yeah. I know she was for you, and Bet was for you. Yes. Yes. And Ethel was for you. And Ethel was my first choice for this one. I mean, Ethel's another. I think we should narrow this one down to Ethel and Bet. Okay, Ethel and Bet. So we'll narrow together down to Ethel and Angela. Okay.

[1:59:22] Daniel Nolen: Um Goldstone. Goldstone, I'm pretty. I'd be pretty happy giving this one to Bet. Yeah. Um. Why don't we narrow that down to Patty and Bet? Okay, Patty and Bet. Um and then and then Small World. Small World right now, we have it narrowed down to Angela, Bet, and Ethel. Angela, Bet, and Ethel, which I love all of them on this song. Who are yours for this one? Um mine for no, mine for small world were Tyne, Bet, and Ethel. Tyne, Bet, and Ethel. Okay, and mine were Ethel, Angela, and Bet. So. So should we narrow this one down to Ethel and Bet? Yeah. Okay, so now Angela only appears on our list for together. So maybe that means we should give Angel. I'd be very happy with that. So, okay, wait, let me just do bookkeeping here. Uh admin, rather. Um, so moving that up to the definite pile. Um, not for nothing. Uh no, never mind. Uh well, a lot of a lot of people liked Angela in that. That's all.

[2:00:53] Ben Rimalower: Okay, so now um, oh, interesting. So now we have. If you put Rose's turn aside for a moment, Small World is Bet and Ethel. Goldstone is Bet and Patty. And You'll Never Get Away From Me is Bet and Ethel. Interesting. Bet is not, well, I mean, the the voters did not want Bet on Rose's turn at all. So are you willing to part with. I'm I'm totally willing to part with that. I I wasn't gonna die on that hill. I just okay. So that said, we definitely would want to give Bet at least one of these three songs. Yeah. Um so uh it would be it'd be easy to give her Goldstone because her competition is Patty, and Patty already has at least one song. However, if we give um if we want to end up giving Ethel Rose's turn, then we probably should give Patty another one because otherwise Bet would have three.

Otherwise Ethel would have three. Yeah, and and Patty would only have some or everything's coming up roses. Interesting. Um so maybe it's actually not this, maybe because I think we'd be genuinely satisfied with Bet or Ethel being small worlds, Bet or Patty being Goldstone, and Bet or Ethel being you'll never get away from me. Maybe we have to confront the elephant in the room and choose Rose's Tone.

[2:02:20] Daniel Nolen: Okay. My vote is Ethel, just because I think we gave Patty's uh uh Everything's Coming Up Roses. To give Patty two of the big numbers seems a little unfair when it whereas if we're just giving Ethel dregs, you know. Yes. Not that these songs are dregs, but you know, the original Mama Rose, and and my second choice for Rose's turn is Ethel, and I would feel very happy and and satisfied giving her um Rose's turn. I'm with you. Um so if we give Ethel Rose's turn and Patty Goldstone. Okay, we give Patty Goldstone. I mean uh I guess I would rather give Bet Small World than You'll Never Get Away From Me. Great. And then give Ethel You'll Never Get Away From Me? Yes, 100%. Wow. Okay, so. Oh my god!

My God. This is very exciting. So some people, Bernadette, everything's coming up roses, Patty. Together wherever we go, Angela. Small world, wait, sorry, I'm all over the place. Some people, bet Bernadette Peters, Small World, Bette Midler. Yeah. You'll never get away from me. Ethel Merman. Goldstone, Patti LuPone. Together wherever we go, Angela Lansbury. Rose's turn, Ethel Merman. Oh my god, wait, okay, so everyone got a song except for Tyne. Tyne and Amilda. Yeah. Which you mean, I mean, I could have guessed that. But I mean, people will be pissed that Patty got two and Tyne didn't get one. Well, you know, that's the way the egg roll rolls. Yeah. Yeah.

[2:04:06] Ben Rimalower: Wow. I can't believe we we we actually did it. Uh do we want to talk about the uh sort of gypsy mix playlist? What that did not make the cut, would you like to see included? Um, I mean, if we're opening it up to non-cast albums, I mean Liza's some people. Yeah. Um then, I mean, I really do love Ethel's Small World. Yeah, me too. Um, I love, I honestly I love Tyne's Rose's turn. I mean, if we want to throw her a bone. I'd rather throw her small world. Or yeah, throw her for small world. Um you'll never get away from me. I know you liked her on that one. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't mind including um Patty Bernadette and Angela's Roses turns. Yeah, absolutely. That's a great idea. Yeah. I think that'd be great.

And then Amelda, and what's what's the well, let me see, which is the one Amelda? I mean, maybe we just don't include her at all, but I did. She was higher on my list on uh You'll Never Get Away From Me. Yeah, I would give her that or together. Yeah, I'd be down. Um, okay, then we both have a homework assignment, which does does Marilyn May sing anything from Gypsy? Well, didn't she sing? What was the one? What was the one you did on Name That Belt the other day? Was it You'll Never Get Away From Me? Oh, was it? Didn't you play a Marilyn on that one earlier? Maybe I did. Well, okay. Anything we can find Marilyn from Gypsy needs to go on the playlist.

[2:05:51] Daniel Nolen: You know what else I would love? My true favorite Rose's turn is Lady Bunny's. But I doubt there's a recording of it. If we find it, it's going on there. And we will also take listener suggestions of other tracks to include. But they have to be on Spotify. Yeah, and also if if I don't know when this when y'all are listening to this, but maybe that's maybe we'll also cover this on Tuesday in our Roses and Daffodils segment. Great idea. Great idea. And tell us other versions to add. And also, you know, you can bitch at us about what we got wrong. Please, but why why not put the bitch in the form of an iTunes review? Yes, yes, yes. But give us five stars, please. Please. Anyway, well, this was so much fun. I feel I mean, talk about cathartic. I feel like we've just gone through Rose's turn with Ro, you know, we we have come out the other side. I've I've been working up to this for a month now, and I've just been holding off on saying too much.

[2:06:49] Ben Rimalower: But I've been holding down inside of me. Yeah, finally it's been able to get up and get out. I'm you! Oh my goodness. It's just 88 lousy bucks. It's not like I'm asking for a second mortgage on this place. Yeah, I mean, yeah, Sondheim, even Sondheim couldn't come up with those with that good writing. Sun I'm Sanaim Sanai. Alright. Well, thank you, listeners. Um, tune in uh on Tuesday for our live stream. If you want to talk more. And until then. Goodbye to Blueberry Pie. Goodbye to Blueberry Pie. Thanks for listening to Ben Remelauer's Broken Records on Broadway World. For more episodes, visit Broadway World, iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever podcasts do be. This episode was edited by me, Daniel Nolen.

Thanks to Emmy Winning composer and lyricist Lance Horn for the broken Records theme song. Follow us both, Ben Remelauer and Daniel Nolen on all y'all's socials. That's Ben Remelauer. B-E-N-R-I-M-A-L-O-W-E-R. And that's Nolan with an E, not Nolan with an A. Because Nolan with an A is an ass.