This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:14] John Schwab: Hi, John Schwab here from Curtain Call, and welcome to episode 161 of the Curtain Call Podcast.

[0:21] John Schwab: I hope everyone is staying safe as we slowly begin to unwind ourselves and start to explore life amongst people again, hitting those theaters, cinemas, and any live events that you possibly can.

[0:32] John Schwab: On the website of things, Matt and I aren't sitting by idly either. For those of you who are theater entertainment and live events professionals, head on over to CurtainCallOnline.com and check out our new platform.

[0:42] John Schwab: I think you'll agree it's the one you've been needing and waiting for far too long. So sign up, build out your profile, start getting found for work.

[0:49] John Schwab: But now for this week's guests, and we have a few of them. As theater opens up, as previously mentioned, especially after an Edinburgh Fringe Festival, we are bound to start getting some shows that pop up in London bringing some of the best new writing from the festival down south.

[1:06] John Schwab: And a couple of weeks ago, I was having lunch with the head of Durham Student Theater, Kate Barton, when she told me about a play she had written and directed that was taken up to Edinburgh to play at the Pleasants.

[1:16] John Schwab: Now, look, I knew it was gonna be a special play. The Pleasants is one of those theaters that everybody would love to play during the fringe, and they always return good value and have great shows there.

[1:26] John Schwab: But when Kate started talking about her play, Screen 9, I was instantly hooked. Being an American, gun violence is something that you always hear about. It's constantly on the news.

[1:35] John Schwab: But it surprised me, if I'm honest, that an English writer-director was gonna take on this tragedy that made worldwide news. And that incident that it deals with is in July 2012 when a gunman opened fire on a cinema audience that had just sat down to watch a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, Colorado.

[1:58] John Schwab: Now, this verbatim piece garnered fantastic reviews at the fringe with The Stage calling it overwhelmingly intense, The Guardian a vivid verbatim play, and Theatre Scotland giving it five stars saying Screen 9 might just be the highlight of the fringe. Not bad.

[2:16] John Schwab: Now I got to Zoom with Kate, two of her actors, Hannah Schunk-Hockings and David Austin Barnes, as well as original designer Matthew Jennings, and had them take me through the journey of the play so far and how they're looking forward to their run at the Pleasance Theatre here in London. Have a listen.

[2:30] Kate Barton: My name's Kate Barton. I'm the writer and director of Screen 9.

[2:39] Matthew Jennings: I'm Matthew Jennings. I'm the original designer for the play.

[2:42] Hannah Schunk-Hockings: My name is Hannah Schunk-Hockings and I play the role of Mary.

[2:48] David Austin Barnes: And I am David Austin Barnes and I play the role of Alex in Screen 9.

[2:54] Kate Barton: A couple of us are in London, a couple of you in New York, and it's wonderful. I love this global industry. But what we'll do is a little origin story with Kate, and can you please tell me in the first instance what inspired this play and how you've got to this point?

[3:13] Kate Barton: Yeah, Screen 9, it's hard to say where it even started from, to be honest. There were so many features and amalgamations that formed in my brain in order to kind of start coming up with the concept. It might be funny for many of your listeners, perhaps listening to a show that's so about America with a very British-accented writer. So we're used to you guys taking all our jobs anyway, so it's great.

[3:42] Kate Barton: Yeah. I mean, it was a production that was written as a love letter to American cinema, as a love letter to American comic book fans and Marvel universes and Dark Knight Rises universes and all things comics, books, and exciting fantasy and things, as well as being a very journalistic perspective on something international and about a crisis that I think in the UK in particular we don't have knowledge about and we make a lot of assumptions about.

[4:03] Kate Barton: It was a conversation I wanted to have across the pond and to kind of bring everyone into the conversation, but also really have it in a really exciting and more human way, especially when we start thinking about gun violence, which I think can be so easily sensationalized either way, and it then just polarizes it in a really big way. So it came about really from lots of conversations, some on the floor at 3 a.m. with my flatmates at university, and as well from visiting America myself for part of a different theater production where we were in Brooklyn, and we were gonna go to a house party, and we narrowly missed actually a drive-by shooting that took place later that night at that party, which was a crazy coincidence and a horrible near miss.

[5:05] Kate Barton: It made me realize that, you know, as someone just traveling to America, actually, how prevalent this is, that that was actually considered to be not unusual. So I kind of wanted to tell the story of the love of cinema and the really real impact that guns can have on communities. And specifically, we're talking about the screening. Was it The Dark Knight Rises? Which Batman movie was it?

[5:31] Kate Barton: It was the Batman Rises, which is the third in the trilogy. Right. And it was the premiere on the 20th of July 2012. The shooting took place in a cinema in Colorado, specifically in Aurora, which is a small town just outside of Denver. And it was a horrendous incident of an individual walking into a cinema and just completely opening fire to the crowd. This is their story. This isn't the shooter's story. It's very much flipping it because you can easily Google this event and find out about who they were and what they did, but it's not that. It's very much what happened next to the real people who were there that day.

[6:18] John Schwab: And if I can throw it over to Hannah and David, you know, how did you guys get involved? How did you come across it? What did you think as well of that British perspective? Because it sounds to me like I think I always tell my sons, you don't, no one ever learns anything while speaking. So when someone else is talking about what your perceived experience or your actual experience of something, their viewpoint, you can learn a little bit more. So when you got it, can you tell me how it came to you and what your first thoughts were?

[6:52] David Austin Barnes: It's okay, we can, Kate's not gonna, she's not gonna hate you for saying I thought I was rubbish. No, joking. How when it came to you, what was it that made you go, yes, this is the one? And what were your experiences or knowledge around those events?

[7:08] David Austin Barnes: Yeah. Sure. Um, so I actually remember when this happened. I was in high school and I remember it happening. And I think that it's been really interesting to then kind of like delve into the world of this play and the event and everything, almost 10 years later. And kind of see how the perspective from an outside point of view, from a British point of view is actually, well, it is taking into account like all of the ups and downs from the event and kind of from the conversation in general.

[7:53] David Austin Barnes: I think that like because it is verbatim and because you're getting the real words from the survivors and from their families and everything, it really was a lot, actually, the first time reading it. And I actually had a conversation with myself about whether or not I did want to do it because it is a lot, and like we talked about this when we were doing a workshop of it, but every time I go to the cinema, I think of this event, like every time, without fail. And that's not something that most people in the UK do have to think about because they didn't grow up in that environment.

[8:40] David Austin Barnes: Um, and so I think I was really like, do I really want to deal with all of this or do I not? But it's a really beautiful simple show in the way that like it really is kind of like bare bones. You're just getting to hear these people's stories and the arguments around gun control and just like everything that goes along with that is really interesting. And it was really interesting, like you said earlier about like how you don't learn by speaking or something like that.

[9:14] David Austin Barnes: Um, is that it was really interesting hearing Kate's point of view and like some of the other Brits' point of view that are involved on all of this because I have such strong opinions on all of this. And so hearing the various sides and discussing them because each of the characters have a different point of view and everything has been really eye-opening in a way. It's been interesting to like watch all of this happen and like watch the learning happen through their eyes.

[9:43] Hannah Schunk-Hockings: That makes sense. Yeah. The other co-founder of Piccolo Theater, his name is George Rex true. He and David and I just completed a postgraduate degree with. And I think it was the second lockdown out of however many we had.

[10:00] Hannah Schunk-Hockings: Um, 28. Yeah, truly, honestly. I don't even know what level it was or what day it was, or whether I showered, you know, but whatever. We're behind that ish. George reached out to us as did Kate and got us on board to do a reading. And I remember it was virtual and I remember getting the script beforehand and you never know what to expect, you know what I mean, especially with things like verbatim, because you don't, everyone actually honestly, even if it's verbatim, they write differently, you know, they orchestrate pieces and text differently depending on what the desired effect is.

[10:43] Hannah Schunk-Hockings: And the thing that struck me most was how disarming it was as a piece. It was not sensationalized, it was not on the nose in any way. It was very much about how a community responds to tragedy and how tragedy is collectively shared in all of the tiny moments of life rather than it being just so event-based and so kind of like, you know, violent and kind of immediate in lots of its sort of, in lots of the ways it affects audience. It was like the bits that really, like I said, felt like they disarmed me and really let me into the story were the pieces around, you know, a victim's car and like the particular sticker they had on the back or, um, what smells are triggering to them or what they were doing that day, you know, what like one of them was going to meet her boyfriend's parents for the first time. Just everything like that, and it was so human.

[10:43] Hannah Schunk-Hockings: Yeah, it was very human and that for me was the reason of like, oh, I really want to be in service of this writer and this story, and like, yeah, put my skills to it because I felt like it was bigger and in service of something bigger than just we're just gonna talk about a violent event that happened and become one of the masses of statistics or numbers or, you know, like sort of like shock value pieces that surround tragedy right now.

[12:29] Kate Barton: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And it's interesting. This piece was written as a couple of early drafts and it's had a couple of like early readings, but it's taken on a different life. Now we are working in partnership with Survivors Empowered. Survivors Empowered are a gun control advocacy group in America. The founders are Sandy and Lonnie Phillips, and they lost their daughter Jessica in this event. And you know, these were just wonderful parents who just one day had their life completely torn from under them and just, you know, it incredibly one day the world shifted for them, and ever since then they have become these amazing spokespeople, these true advocates, and as a show as well, it's kind of written to raise awareness for what they do as well, and to start the conversation about gun control and about better preventative measures as well, to kind of go back to the states as well and to kind of really invite everyone back into this conversation about people rather than about guns as well and about shooters, but yeah, but not about violence in a weird way and about the communities.

[13:42] John Schwab: That makes total sense, Kate. And Matthew, I'm gonna get to you. Don't worry, we're gonna talk about the design in a while. I'd like to, because we're gonna get to the next phase of the production's life, of the piece's life, and that is, you know, this is from Zoom to doing something like this to Edinburgh and at the Pleasance, no less. So, you know, that's a great get for a piece of work. And they really do support and tell me if you can what it meant to have that platform, which is so well supported and at an Edinburgh, you know, legendary venue to put on this piece and what it meant for both writer and performers and Matthew as designer as well, because this is something where it all starts coming together when there's something physically happening. And so can you take me through that?

[14:45] Kate Barton: Honestly, it's completely overwhelming in terms of as our, well, certainly my debut thing I've ever written, I've ever done like professionally directed, just suddenly be given this incredible platform with the Pleasance is just mind-blowingly exciting. It's the kind of thing that you only could dream about happening. And they've just been absolutely amazing. We are the recipient of the Charlie Hartill theatre reserve as well, which means that we are like co-funded and we are a co-production with the Pleasance as well, which again gives us like extra gravitas and money, which is great. They get paid in the year of COVID. I mean, we needed that. We couldn't, I don't think we could have done a premiere of a bit of a risky show.

I mean, it's not a comedy at all. And it's a hard show to watch. So to be able to have that support, that backing, that marketing and that belief meant everything to us to be able to be there in Edinburgh and you know, throughout the pandemic and all the uncertainties of will they, won't they, it was like a relationship at one point. Yeah, but you know, the romance worked out beautifully in the end.

[15:59] John Schwab: Nice. And the actors as well, I said Hannah, David, did it, were you aware? I mean, in your experiences in London and Edinburgh, you were aware that that was the place, really one of the places that you want to be.

[16:11] Hannah Schunk-Hockings: Yeah, I mean, it was all kind of like there was sort of whispers of it happening and then maybe not happening. We did, you know, a couple of readings and development weeks, and then it was like we were gonna have a season in London, and then as soon as the season in London got confirmed, it was like, oh, and four weeks up north. How do you feel about that? But honestly, it was also like just as a performer, it was like this is such an incredible rarity to be able to be with a show, to work on something over an extended period of time, in a, you know, and be held in a professional structure, at a place where people, you know, it is a destination spot for theater. So even though the fringe, you know, it was greatly reduced capacity this year because of COVID, everyone who was there was like there for a reason and wanted to like up their own work and up the others, you know, work that they see and be, you know, it wasn't anyone who was sort of like half-assing it. It was like everyone who was there, it took something for them to get there. So the, in my opinion, the quality of the work and the quality of engagements like between artists was much more rich.

[17:41] David Austin Barnes: Amazing. Yeah, and I think that I had personally never been involved with the fringe festival before so I don't know what it was like pre-COVID. I've heard many crazy, crazy stories. Yeah, that is that's a general consensus. But having it happen this year and getting to be a part of it and getting to be a part of the Pleasance and everything, it was such a gift. This story is very important to all of us because we have all been attached to it, well not as long as Kate, it hasn't been years for us, but we all like, it's very important to us and the Pleasance really kind of helped make the vision that Kate had happen and the whole energy of the city and the festival and just like everyone involved in the Pleasance and like around, it was just so lovely.

It was like, which makes sense because we're all kind of craving it, we're craving the in-person, we're craving the creative art outlet after, you know, the unspeakable. But I think that it was just, it was such a blessing to like get to do it, get to see other stuff, get to like sit in the Pleasance courtyard and meet other creatives and stuff. It was, it was such, yeah, it was, I mean, that's where we all go and we go to the Pleasance courtyard.

[17:41] John Schwab: Yeah, I mean, it is the busiest place, it's madness. We now take a short break for a word from our sponsors.

[19:18] John Schwab: Welcome back to the Curtain Call Podcast. So let's talk about the design. And as a writer, I can understand that you have a responsibility to words that were true, the words that were spoken to experiences that happened. How do you, as a designer then take those moments and put them in a way that's both respectful to the experiences of the people that were involved in that shooting, but also true to the piece, a new piece in the interpretation of that script? How did you approach that?

[19:55] Matthew Jennings: So I think a really big part of this play is the people and their stories. And so we wanted to put the complete focus on the words given by these people. And we tried to remove a bit of the sensationalism. So at one point in the play, you are submerged into darkness like those people were at the cinema. But we wanted to make sure that we kept everybody in the audience safe, yeah, in that as well, because it's quite a big ask to get people to come into a theater where you know tragedy happened, and to slightly relive that is a really difficult thing. But I think what draws people away from that is the people and the stories and hearing those words, I think is what really helps drive the piece.

I think it helps focus it as well when it's like when it's really dark, all you hear is them. You just hear the words, yeah, and you just see the clock as well, which is projected, which just goes through the time of the three minutes that it took for this to happen. And that's it. And you just sit and listen. It's not, there's no noise effects, there's no gunfire. I think Matthew is really careful in his design to again, as you said, be really respectful of not only the safety of the audience, but making anything at all gratuitous.

[21:22] John Schwab: So we are now come to the point where that London run is happening. And I'm looking forward to seeing it. I hope everyone else is too. Give me a sense of what it means to bring something down from the fringe that was a success. The Stage are notoriously difficult. You know, but for them to call it overwhelmingly intense and giving it four stars, I mean, that is so good. You know, they're really hard to please. And I love The Stage. Don't get me wrong, I love The Stage. But it's the journey you've got now is it's coming to London. Tell me what that means as a company, not just as individuals as well, but as a company, people who have developed a piece. And you've to, is there a validation, or do you not care about that?

[22:11] David Austin Barnes: You just it's being able to bring it to a wider audience.

[22:16] John Schwab: Take me through some of those emotions and some of those feels.

[22:21] David Austin Barnes: Yeah, I mean I feel very excited that we get to, you know, we did previews in London for a couple of nights, but it's nice to feel like we have a dedicated season, you know, to come back to. Um I just in terms of our sort of like our ethos, like it I couldn't have asked for like not just sound twee or whatever, but like a more relaxed, easeful, um, and supportive experience in terms of cast and crew and creatives. Like everyone this is very kind of like everyone knows what we're in service to without being like reverential about it. Everyone is just like, you know, here to understand and support the work, um, you know, between each other and then also what we're giving other people and what we're asking other people to go like um through with us.

Um I feel very excited that you know we get to bring it into London as well. Because you the other thing is like you never know what kind of like who's gonna be there as well. And you never know. I think that's one of the most beautiful things about theater is you never know what ripple effect your story or the story or your work is gonna have on people. Like I remember in our first preview night, there was a man who was like he was so overwhelmed by the show. Um, and he like went out of his way to write to Kate uh and say, I just want to say thank you so much. It was his first experience in a theater uh since the pandemic, and even just going like, you know, regardless of the reason why people show up, they're showing up to go to have an experience. And I feel very lucky to be able to, yeah, participate in that, definitely.

[24:19] Hannah Schunk-Hockings: Nice.

[24:19] David Austin Barnes: Yeah.

[24:20] Hannah Schunk-Hockings: I completely agree. I think that having been a part of it for so long now, and different iterations of it, each time we've done it, it's gotten it's become more fully formed. It's become, I think, like the story that it was meant to be. Um, and that is exciting. Like it's exciting to be a part of that. It's exciting to kind of see that happen and like see the change, kind of feel the change. And I think yeah, likewise, like after you know, the year that we've all had and everything, getting to do theater in general is unbelievable. Yeah. But getting to do this show, which we all um care a lot about, uh for more people in like a new setting that again like could spark conversation or or they just, you know, have a nice hour at a theater.

It's just nice. Like and I think because the story is different to a lot of the work that like we've done as actors, for instance, um, since it's based on a real thing and we're not playing real people. We're we're playing like um like a conglomeration of a few people. It's like a combat, it's not one individual person. But because these are real stories and everything, it also gets all of the ego out of the way. So it does it's not about whether or not like we're giving a good performance or blah blah blah blah blah. It's about kind of telling this story and seeing um how it lands on the given night. And that is really exciting to do in you know London, which is the theatre capital of the world in my opinion.

[25:58] David Austin Barnes: So yeah.

[25:59] Hannah Schunk-Hockings: It is it is in everybody's opinion.

[26:02] David Austin Barnes: Yeah well they no it's completely mental. Yeah I mean couldn't have hoped for um a more gracious reaction for everyone who saw it's been really important for people to, I think, hear the story and it's it's touched a lot of people and that's that's really moving. And I think as as everyone said, it's just it's creating that dialogue and it's creating that platform for survivors and it's it's it's changing the conversation. Um and that's really exciting. And you know, London's a massive international city, so and it's an international story, so it's gonna be um it's gonna be a treat to take it down, I think.

[26:44] John Schwab: I always like to ask people, um, the guests that when they're putting on a new show, what would you like the audience to go away with? What is kind of a success in that sense of of a of a show?

[26:58] David Austin Barnes: I think the big thing for me is this removing of a polarizing barrier between the politicizing of gun violence and hopefully hearing these stories of real people and real lives that were affected, uh, can break some of those down and hopefully open up conversations on a more personal level of what's the change that we can do to make the difference.

[27:21] Hannah Schunk-Hockings: Yeah.

[27:23] David Austin Barnes: Yeah. I think some people come out of it like almost like angry as well, almost like I can't believe this is still happening, and I can't believe that this is still so there is a bit of a call to action, I would say, as well as an audience member to come out of it and and think about yeah, what we can do as as as humans in this world and work more collaboratively together to have these conversations and and talk to your parents and talk to your family and talk to your friends and and really widen it as a discussion, I think. Um I I would say if there was a success for me, it would be like someone going out and calling their mom and telling their mom that they love them. Like I like I haven't seen my family in because of the pandemic for like nearly two years.

[28:19] Hannah Schunk-Hockings: Yeah.

[28:20] David Austin Barnes: Um, and that has had a real effect on me. And doing this show, performing this story has made me every day feel like I appreciate the love of my family in a very different way. And it keeps all of those sort of like superficial for me, those superficial kind of day in, day out, like niggles at your life and in your head, it keeps them kind of really in perspective. You know, like call your family and tell them that you love them and spend some time with them, or pick up the phone, or give that text to that person that you've been meaning to reach out to, but you just haven't, like, you know, just that kind of thing for me. If it sparks a connection of, you know, wanting to reach out and like yeah, like give some love, that would be that for me is a success.

[29:18] Hannah Schunk-Hockings: And uh appreciate the wonderful everyday, yeah.

[29:20] David Austin Barnes: Yes, yeah, completely.

[29:23] Hannah Schunk-Hockings: I mean, I agree with all of that. I think that the theater I enjoy the most is something that I leave thinking about, and whether it makes me angry or it makes me sad or makes me laugh or whatever, if I am still thinking about it the next day, that's success for me. And I think that um, yeah, and connection, I agree. I think that like uh it's a difficult time and it's a difficult story that we're telling. And um, so yeah, if it brings like a little lol hug, a little phone call, that is that is very cute and very lovely.

[30:02] John Schwab: Well, listen, I think we could all use a little hug and and and cute or not. Um I look forward to seeing it, and I cannot wait to experience Screen 9. It will be experience.

[30:15] David Austin Barnes: It will be an experience, I'm sure from what I've what I've read from Kate, what you've spoken uh to me about and and what we've spoken about today. I wish you all the best for the run. Break legs, and um and I'll see you after the curtain call.

[30:33] Hannah Schunk-Hockings: Guys, best of British, best of British.

[30:36] David Austin Barnes: Thank you.

[30:37] John Schwab: Thank you so much. Playwright Kate Barton, actors Hannah Schunk-Hockings and David Austin Barnes, and designer Matthew Jennings there. Now before I go, just a few housekeeping bits. Quick reminder that you can download and subscribe to the podcast from the Apple Podcast app or from iTunes. That way your feed will be automatically updated when we release podcasts. But you can also listen to us on many other podcast streaming services such as Stitcher, Google, iHeartRadio, all those lovely things. Spotify.

[31:09] David Austin Barnes: Spotify.

[31:10] John Schwab: Please rate and review our podcast, please, if you have a spare 30 seconds and help us reach more theater lovers out there around the globe. You can follow us on all the socials, Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at Curtain Call. And you can follow me personally at John Schwab. Both of those are all lowercase and no spaces. We'd love to hear from you if you have any suggestions or feedback for the podcast. Get in touch with us via any of the social media platforms I just mentioned, or write to me personally at John at Curtain Call Online dot com. Don't forget, sign up for a free profile in Curtain Call if you are a theater, live events, or entertainment professional at curtaincallonline.com. We've just launched a new platform.

It's partly funded by Innovate UK to help get our industries back to work. So it doesn't matter where you live in the world, sign up for a free profile. Just yeah, do it. It just leaves me to say a huge thank you to Kate, Hannah, David, and Matthew for taking the time to chat with me about their play Screen 9. If you want to attend, you can find tickets at the Pleasance' website, which is Pleasance.co.uk. And that uh run starts on the 12th of October. I'll put the links in the show notes. Thank you to Share Microphones for continuing to be our equipment sponsor for this podcast. And a huge thank you to the incredibly talented and extremely upbeat Salesha Thomas. I say it every week and it makes me smile.

I wish you guys could see her on our podcast, Broadway Podcast Network meetings. They are brilliant. If you haven't checked out our podcast, it's time to go over to the Broadway Podcast Network website and do just that. Lastly, a big thank you to all of you who tune in regularly to this podcast. Without you, just we wouldn't be here. Thank you so much. I look forward to bringing you even more episodes. And uh I just want you all to stay safe, look after yourselves, and uh see you in a darkened room soon, I hope. Bye.