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[0:19] John Schwab: Hi, John Schwab here from Curtain Call, and welcome to our pioneer series of the Curtain Call Podcast.

[0:27] John Schwab: For those of you who are theater entertainment and live events professionals, head on over to CurtainCallonline.com. Check out our new platform. Sign up, build out your profile, start getting found for work. But more on that later.

[0:40] John Schwab: For now, it's our pioneer series. We're gonna be highlighting the companies that are getting the live events industries back to business and who've been supporting the freelancers and professionals that found themselves unable to make a living in the sector due to the pandemic.

[1:09] John Schwab: Having bought Carlsbro and turned it into a success, he was then caught out by the financial crashes and the odds. But as a testament to his drive and passion, he was convinced to set up his own company, Bishop Sound, and he hasn't looked back.

[1:23] John Schwab: We sat down together in separate rooms, as is the normal thing to do these days, to chat about why and how he got into the industry, his supporting the industry through We Make Events, and the road to recovery, and more.

[1:49] John Schwab: Uh Ed, we have to begin, Andrew Bishop, by saying this has been in the offing for quite some time, hasn't it?

[1:58] Andrew Bishop: Yes, um, it has. And um, I'm really, really pleased that we've managed to carve out some time to speak together today.

[2:07] John Schwab: Absolutely. So we like to start um most podcasts with origin stories, and Bishop Sound's been around for quite some time. But where did Bishop Sound come from? How did Andrew Bishop start in this industry?

[2:25] Andrew Bishop: I purchased Carlsbro Sound for a pound at the end of uh 1999, early part of 2000. Um Carlsbro started making speakers and amplifiers for live performance back in 1959. And um it's Swan Song really was um in the uh late 2007-2008 when unfortunately the last speakers were manufactured and sold. We got wiped out by the infamous credit crunch when Lehman Brothers went down, HSBC, bless their cotton socks, decided they wanted all their money back overnight.

[3:12] Andrew Bishop: But during during the time that I was custodian of the brand or caretaker of the brand, we took it from losing half a million on a 900,000 pound turnover up to a turnover of around five million. Um, very profitable. So we were going great guns, making PA equipment, names like Marlin Cobra, all of this was the bedrock of a lot of early bands in the 60s PA system. In fact, the Rolling Stones played on a hundred-watt PA system at Elton swimming baths in 1964. And that was a Carl 100-watt head. And um, you know, it was a great event, allegedly. Um, so that that brought me into a uh uh a business which was extremely passionate about the quality of sound, about British sound and a heritage going back to the late 50s.

[4:13] John Schwab: That's fantastic, and that is an interesting way to end an introduction because there is a British sound. There is a US sound, isn't there? There are different sounds that come out of different regions. Was that something that always fascinated you before getting into it?

[4:32] Andrew Bishop: Yes, it did, but I was educated by people far more um well educated than me. There, they they were brought up in in sound in the Midlands in in Moundsfield and Nottinghamshire. And um I was sat down one day by Gary Brooks, and he said, Right, I'm gonna play you through all the different sounds. So he played me in American sound, which was awfully toppy with a lot of bass and not a lot going on in the middle. And then he asked me to pick out various instruments, and I said, Well, I'm sorry. So the acoustic guitars that allegedly were in the track, I couldn't hear in that sound shape or pattern. And the speakers in America allegedly are voiced with a lot of top and a lot of bottom because that's the sound they like.

[5:15] Andrew Bishop: Yeah. In Germany, the sound is extremely clinical, almost too clinical for the British ear, where we find it a little bit um uh too sharp, but not necessarily high pitched, but sharp. In China, bless them, they're all brought up with Beijing opera and the pentatonic scale, and so they very much like the high notes and their their ears are very much tuned to high frequencies. Yet the British sound I often describe as grandma's gravy. It's it's a it's a warm, rich, inviting sound, which is pleasing to the ear. And what I say to all the people is look, it's not about volume, it's about the quality of sound and making sure that if you're listening to tracks like Hotel California, you can pick out every single guitar and every single instrument.

And if you go to a live gig and you close your eyes, you're able to pick out every single instrument that's being played on the stage. And and and that for me is the definition of live sound a warm, rich, welcoming feeling which doesn't hurt the ears, and that is the British sound.

[6:24] John Schwab: That is so cool. I mean, uh that is the the coolest thing I've heard for a long, long time, and I can't wait. I can't wait to get my son Jack uh to listen to that because he'll be fascinated by it. I'd like to ask you how you when you bought Carlsbro um cabinet, or the the business that made the the heads in the cabinets, yeah. What was it that you wanted to kind of push on from there or or move into a new space? You obviously had a clear um vision of what sound vision, what sound would be, what the cabinets would be. What what kind of drove you in those early days to kind of make a name for Bishop Sound and how you wanted to push on from what you had bought?

[7:09] Andrew Bishop: Well, in the days of Carlsbro, um when I bought Carlsbro, I had no idea what I was doing. Um I did own a Carlsbro speaker when I was about 18 years of age, and I had used Carlsbro equipment at school in the 70s. Uh I was born in 1960. So so, and I'd seen a lot of stingrays and various other things. So I was aware of the brand. Um, but I I I'm not from an electronics background. I made my first speaker when I was 12, but that was just at home, and then I went on to be a DJ. Um, but I'm not an electronics engineer, and I I make that very clear. But I was gifted in that when I bought Carlsbro, I went round to see everybody, and I won't mention all the names, they know who they are, and asked them how they would run the business, given where Carlsbro is, and I had some tremendous advice, and I wrote to every customer in the first week that I took ownership in January and asked all the customers if they'd be kind enough to buy something and also tell me what I should be making.

[8:17] Andrew Bishop: And by asking the customers what Carlsbro should be doing, rather than assuming that Carlsbro should do this and do that, yeah, that set us off on a good footing. We we we got lots of orders, we got lots of product requirements, and that I I believe that if seven out of ten people are asking for the same thing, then we should make it. But I I went off and did consultancy um when I lost Carlsbro because I was devastated, heartbroken and devastated with with being you know wiped out. I lost the business. Uh, it was I had to sell the brand to a Chinese company, which broke my heart, and I had to say goodbye to some fantastic people, but fortunately I was able to try and find jobs for a lot of them and many of them are still in the industry amazing but but I went off and did consultancy for five or six years and it wasn't until 2015 when I was in a bar in Nigeria doing some business for another well known brand and they said didn't you used to own Carlsbro I said yes yes he said well can you make some of those 2015s I said well no I don't I don't make speakers anymore that's so that's history and he said well look we'll order a 40 foot high cube container we'll pay you fifty thousand dollars now if you make them but the two rules are one you have to put the British flag on the front and two you have to call it Bishop Sound.

I said no no no no I'm not I'm not going back I said with all due respect it was painful for me to lose everything I had before I don't really want to start making speakers again and but anyway that that that's the history so Bishop Sound comes from a uh a couple of uh gentlemen in the industry in um from Nigeria uh in a in a small hotel stroke bar um and uh we started it off and then it's just gone from strength to strength in the UK but also globally.

[8:49] John Schwab: I love that story Andrew. I mean I I knew a bit about it but just listening to it I I love a story of resilience of seeing an opportunity taking it and you've you've run with it you've made a success of it. I've seen I've seen your your wares finally at um when I got to see you in person at Plaza um because we'll talk about the last few months um and they're beautiful they're the you do beautiful things and a great team around you.

[10:47] John Schwab: We make events being the organization that uh suppliers, freelancers, you know, put together to to help support people in the and both freelancers and suppliers in the live event space during the pandemic and to help them get through it. You're an integral part of that. Can you tell me why it was so important to you to be involved in this movement and and how when people came together, it was uh it was just something that you felt you needed to get on to was it survival or was it support or was it a mix of the two, or can you just take me through you know what happened at the beginning of the pandemic with you joining We Make Events and then all of the we'll we'll get about we'll get to some of the things that you have done during the last uh 18 months to raise money, but how important was for you to make sure that you were part of the I don't know, the sounding board of the industry to make sure that everyone was protected and helped.

[11:49] Andrew Bishop: Um, I guess we were getting cries for help from our customers and friends um in the autumn of uh the first lockdown.

[12:05] Andrew Bishop: And um we really got involved with We Make Events because I believed that it was only by working together, everybody coming together as one and talking to the politicians and educating the politicians to the plight which many of our close friends, customers, engineers, manufacturing partners, suppliers were all feeling.

[12:35] Andrew Bishop: And so I got I rang Peter Heath because I I previously was a uh a board director of Plaza anyway.

[12:42] Andrew Bishop: So we were we were massively um supportive of the work of Plaza and all the people that are there.

[12:50] Andrew Bishop: Um we immediately I immediately said to Peter, look, what can I do to help?

[12:55] Andrew Bishop: And he said, Well, let's get you involved with We Make Events and let's get you involved with Duncan Bell and let's get you in the politics team.

[13:03] Andrew Bishop: So I work with Brian and Duncan and a number of other people that we know to lobby governments, not in a nasty way or uh aggressive way, but to just say to them, Look, um, this is us, this is what we do.

[13:17] Andrew Bishop: You know, when you stand up at your conference, Rishi, because he's our local MP, he's only 20 miles up the road.

[13:23] Andrew Bishop: When you when you stand at your conference and you go to that microphone, do you realize just who makes that happen for you and who ensures that there's no interference or upset and that you're heard clearly, not only in the room, but globally, and and and by having those conversations, they suddenly started to think about it.

[13:46] Andrew Bishop: And and so I was I was very happy to work on that.

[13:49] Andrew Bishop: And I think the the real thing for me that made me get and do even get even deeper into We Make Events, and I try and make every every meeting, is is when I got a call one Friday afternoon from a guy who didn't sound right on the phone, and I said to him, Um, Are you okay?

[14:04] Andrew Bishop: And he said, Uh, not really.

[14:07] Andrew Bishop: Uh, and he said, Um I said, so you want some speakers?

[14:11] Andrew Bishop: I've got these speakers, you can have them, that's not a problem.

[14:13] Andrew Bishop: He said, Oh, thank you, Andrew.

[14:14] Andrew Bishop: He said, uh, you know, I truly appreciate you taking the call and speaking to me.

[14:17] Andrew Bishop: I said, you know, that's what I'm here for.

[14:19] Andrew Bishop: What, but you don't sound right.

[14:21] Andrew Bishop: So talk to me.

[14:23] Andrew Bishop: And he said, Well, it's my best friend.

[14:25] Andrew Bishop: And I said, Well, what's happened to your best friend?

[14:27] Andrew Bishop: What's the problem with your best friend?

[14:29] Andrew Bishop: He said, Well, he's 18 years of age, and he lives just down the road in in East London.

[14:34] Andrew Bishop: And he record producer DJ doing so much great work.

[14:40] Andrew Bishop: He came home a couple of nights ago, and his wife said she was pregnant, and he went out in the backyard and hung himself.

[14:50] Andrew Bishop: Oh my lord.

[14:54] Andrew Bishop: The reason for the hanging was pressure.

[14:59] Andrew Bishop: He'd lost his regular gig at the nightclub because the nightclub was shut.

[15:05] Andrew Bishop: His music wasn't being heard that he was creating.

[15:08] Andrew Bishop: He felt uh left out, neglected, no one to talk to.

[15:13] Andrew Bishop: And the pressure of him becoming a father on top of everything else with no regular income tipped him over the edge.

[15:36] Andrew Bishop: You know, try and give some hope or some connectivity to people that find themselves changing direction or being pushed in a direction which they don't want to go and need someone to talk to about it.

[15:48] Andrew Bishop: So We Make Events is not all about a bunch of cronies, you know, uh the great and the good, you know, chatting to each other.

[15:56] Andrew Bishop: It's it's it's about the passion that we share for sound and lighting and making events, and it's about the passion for the people that are involved in making that happen, the people that are on that day looking after the sound for Rishi Sunak and making sure that his words are heard globally.

[16:16] John Schwab: I love that you did that.

[16:18] John Schwab: You went up to to see him, didn't you go to his surgery?

[16:21] Andrew Bishop: Um when he was you do you go up outside the door to kind of deliver a little hello?

[16:26] Andrew Bishop: We're we're blessed, we're blessed here that we're in uh we're in a blue, well blessed, I'm not sure whether we're blessed, but we we find ourselves in a blue triangle up here in North Yorkshire where it it you know you can't walk very far, it's just blue, it's just everywhere's blue, and and they all work very closely together, and we speak to all of the local MPs, and we're on the we're on the sort of triangle, they're all they're all around us.

[16:48] Andrew Bishop: And so Rishi is 20 miles away, uh, Julian Smith's down the road, the Harrogate MPs, but it's very blue here, and um so so I can talk to them, they are approachable.

[16:59] Andrew Bishop: And yeah, I drove to see him.

[17:01] Andrew Bishop: Sadly, um, he was called away um uh unexpectedly by something more important than our good selves.

[17:07] Andrew Bishop: But he did read the letter, he did acknowledge it, he did apologize, and he said, Look, Andrew, whatever we can do, we will do to keep live events going.

[17:16] Andrew Bishop: We we get it, we get it.

[17:18] Andrew Bishop: And and it's only by nibbling away at these MPs, constantly reminding them that the creative arts is such a such an important part of UK PLC, and one of our biggest exports remains music.

[17:33] Andrew Bishop: And there's no surprises that if we if we don't put energy and effort into the people who are not academic but are immensely creative, we wouldn't have these marvelous actors.

[17:45] Andrew Bishop: We wouldn't have people like Ed Sheeran.

[17:48] Andrew Bishop: We wouldn't have Adele.

[17:49] Andrew Bishop: We wouldn't have.

[17:50] Andrew Bishop: And you know, when we go around the world as we do as businessmen, and we we walk into a cafe, wherever we are in the world, you can guarantee that Ed Sheeran will be playing at some point.

[18:01] Andrew Bishop: And Adele will be playing at another.

[18:04] Andrew Bishop: And so, you know, there are you know amazing people, but they come from a creative background, not necessarily academic.

[18:12] Andrew Bishop: And it's up to the academics to support the creatives and the creatives to help the academics.

[18:17] Andrew Bishop: And if we do that, we work in harmony, regardless of COVID-19.

[18:21] Andrew Bishop: And once we're in harmony and we're firing on all cylinders, boy, British sound really sings through.

[18:28] John Schwab: Absolutely, Andrew.

[18:30] John Schwab: Absolutely.

[18:31] John Schwab: So Andrew, you've you've run some events, managed some events to help raise money, raise awareness for what you've just talked about.

[18:37] John Schwab: Can you take me through some of your your favorite moments and what you've done recently to bring awareness and how everything you're doing in Bishop Sound's name is just is just supporting the industry.

[18:50] Andrew Bishop: There are so many favorite moments.

[18:53] Andrew Bishop: And it would be wrong to pick out one highlight, but as a retired DJ, um, I was introduced to the Twitch platform during We Make Events and realized the power of Twitch because it the bedroom DJs and all the major DJs that couldn't actually tour were appearing on Twitch and earning a peppercorn living from people celebrating their art.

[19:18] Andrew Bishop: And I have to name check Dom Harter from Martin Audio, who who really was an inspiration to me with what he was doing.

[19:28] Andrew Bishop: You know, he he won't like me for calling him out because he he you know he tends to hide his light under a bushel unless you're watching Twitch on Friday afternoons at five o'clock when he does an amazing set, plays some fantastic music, and and we use that to encourage other DJs to join us to do Raid to Recovery, which raised a substantial amount of money for the We Make Events cohort.

[19:54] Andrew Bishop: And and we then did a uh uh Rave to Recovery where we broadcast globally because this is not just UK PLC.

[20:03] Andrew Bishop: It's we went to South Africa, we went to Spain, we went to Ibiza, which was in complete darkness, and we we reincarnated some uh some kit and played some music, and we did it all using the Twitch TV platform, which of course is owned by Amazon, and and with that we raised awareness, we raised money, we raised spirits, we raised hope, we raised ourselves to the challenge of bringing all the We Make Eventers together and saying, look, it it's lights are important, yes, but without a microphone, it's nothing.

[20:38] Andrew Bishop: DJs are important.

[20:39] Andrew Bishop: DJs are so important, they're there before most bands appear in my in working men's clubs up and down the country.

[20:46] Andrew Bishop: They fill in the gaps when they go for a pee.

[20:48] Andrew Bishop: You know, don't forget the DJs.

[20:50] Andrew Bishop: Don't forget the DJs.

[20:52] Andrew Bishop: They're not all in nightclubs.

[20:54] Andrew Bishop: It's just you know, so so and it and it is the DJs who are very often a one man band or a husband and wife team that that that really did suffer.

[21:03] Andrew Bishop: So we raise a lot of money and a lot of awareness, and we keep doing that.

[21:06] Andrew Bishop: So, on top of all the political stuff, we're still there um pushing the t-shirts, uh, encouraging people to uh enjoy live music in any way, shape or form, and Twitch TV is one way of broadcasting that globally.

[21:24] Salisha Thomas: Hey everyone, this is Salisha Thomas from Black Hair in the Big Leagues, part of the Broadway Podcast Network.

[21:30] Salisha Thomas: Welcome back to the Curtain Call Podcast.

[21:34] Salisha Thomas: I've got a couple more questions for you, Andrew.

[21:36] Salisha Thomas: First of all, as the industry um recovers, I hate we're talking about interest in recovery because the industry found ways to adapt.

[21:45] Salisha Thomas: We're very resilient, very adaptable industry.

[21:48] Salisha Thomas: People were having, as you say, they were performing on Twitch and getting um uh virtual tips, as it were.

[21:55] Salisha Thomas: They were able to do virtual streaming concerts and and you know, sound gear needed to be had and and learned how to adapt.

[22:03] Salisha Thomas: As we do get into more live events happening, and before um next summer, as festivals happen, everything like that.

[22:09] Salisha Thomas: What can you see how the industry is changing sound-wise?

[22:13] Salisha Thomas: And is it do you see a boom as people want to get back to live events because we're suffering digital fatigue, or at least you're talking to somebody who is, and I cannot wait to go to more concerts.

[22:26] Andrew Bishop: Yeah, um, it has changed dramatically, and um during this time, um, a lot of the engineers and a lot of the freelancers have had to look for other things.

[22:37] Andrew Bishop: But it's very difficult for a freelancer who is passionate about sound to really have peace of mind driving for Morrisons.

[22:47] Andrew Bishop: It it it they really are they they keep being pulled back to the their purpose, which is to deliver uh crystal clear sound to people in the right places at the right time at the right volume.

[23:01] Andrew Bishop: What we're doing, and the reason why we're involved with Curtain Call, quite simply, is to say to all these engineers, look, we've changed too. We used to bring all of our speakers in from China, we don't do that anymore. We manufacture all of the speakers that we possibly can here in North Yorkshire. So if you are a sound engineer and your local pub says, "Look, you do sound, Fred, why don't you put a new system in for me here?" that guy can ring us up and say, "Look, I need X number of cabinets, I need them this shape, I need them this size, I need them, you know, in this way. Can you make them for me, please, Andrew?" And the answer is yes, of course we can. With no minimum order and a little factory that we've created up here, we can now do any colour you like. So you can blend the colour speakers to whatever room colour you want. Amazing. Have them waterproof outside. Would you believe we're even making wooden grills for speakers?

[24:00] Andrew Bishop: So, and everyone wakes up and says to me, "Well, hasn't anybody done that before?" And maybe they have, I don't know, but it's much better, you know, in the environment in which we live in now, and with all of our eyes towards the environment and making sure that the actual grills are made from waste material, it's material that is used when they send us the 15mm plywood to stop the top sheet getting damaged and the bottom sheet getting damaged. We have a three millimeter ply right carrier pack, which normally would end up as scrap, and one day we just put it on a machine and punched some holes in it, and all of a sudden it became a speaker grill, and it's lovely. So there's all kinds of things that are going on.

[24:42] Andrew Bishop: But what we're saying with Curtain Call is look, you may be still doing sound on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday for a major band or whatever. But if you're not on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, put some speakers in at your local church. You know, Methodist Hall, theatre. We've got here up in North Yorkshire, thankfully, good stocks of transducers. We've just become the Lavochi main exclusive distributor for the United Kingdom, which is a very, very up and coming and highly respected transducer. So we've got all the bits and we've got all the knowledge. What we don't have is all the people that are doing the work.

[25:20] Andrew Bishop: So the Curtain Call for me is if you know how to put a sound system together and you need some bits, give me a call because we're not gonna rob you blind. It's all about, we don't, none of us like to go to a restaurant and sit there and eat a really fine meal if we have the opportunity for a birthday or celebration, and then have a wasp in a tin can buzzing in the ear from some imported Mickey Mouse speaker that's made out of match wood or tin. And none of us want to spend, if we're that way inclined, tens of thousands of pounds, you know, specifying a particular room or whatever it may be, and then sticking two big black boxes on the wall because it's just rude and it's unnecessary.

[25:51] Andrew Bishop: Yeah, and none of us want to start shipping large boxes, six and a half to seven thousand miles, regardless of the cost, which is basically all fresh air into the United Kingdom. You know, why do we do that? We've got decent quality wood here, we've got craftsmen, we've got CNC machines, we can paint things. Let's do what we used to do in the Carlsborough days back in the 50s and 60s and 70s and 80s, and make the speakers here in the United Kingdom. And I think anybody out there who is not passionate about bringing things back to the UK, this is not about Brexit. This is not about, you know, British rule and the Commonwealth. It's all about common sense.

[26:53] Andrew Bishop: And common sense says if it's affordable and we can make it here and we can give work to people locally, that's a nice feeling. And made in England matters, and made in the United Kingdom matters. And you know, it's the way forward. And very shortly we'll be telling everybody, light your good selves. If anyone places an order with us for speakers, we'll plant a tree for you.

[27:17] Andrew Bishop: Yeah. So because we're using the wood. So please, please think twice if ever you're buying speakers and just look at where they're made. And if you can do a bit for UK PLC and the people down the road, you know, then that's a nice feeling. I also believe that it's sending the elevator back down, and what you're doing is passing on legacy, you're teaching the next generation of cabinet builders to do it themselves. Because you're right, we have lost the art of manufacturing because it's very simple to click a mouse button and get something delivered instantly.

[27:53] Andrew Bishop: Now, last question: what advice would you give somebody who would like to come into this industry? Both maybe a double question here, both the sound engineering or sound industry, but also someone who is looking interested in what you do and kind of wants to have a career in it. What advice would you give them to start them off on the right foot?

[28:19] Andrew Bishop: Ring me. I'd love a two-word answer. Yeah, my, you know what? One of the things that I think is really important if you run a business is to be completely transparent and accessible. And you know, I have a number of graduates that write to me, send me their CV, and when I reply to them, they say, "Oh my god, you're the first person that's replied to me." And I'm saying, I said, "Well, better than that, when are you going to call me?" Because here's, you know, I said on the email, I say, he said, "Well, great, you know, I'll call you." I said, "Well, look, call me on Friday at three o'clock and let's talk about it. Let's see what we can do."

[28:59] Andrew Bishop: So there are a number of people at the moment that are in university and college, want to learn more about sound, and we're looking for designers and we're looking for the creative team here in the UK that will make the next new must-have line array or the next new must-have loudspeaker. There's so much more to do, so much further to go, and we will try our very, very best to get everybody together. So we know the market because we've got 200 distributors around the world. In fact, I think we're in 170 countries last time I looked.

[29:37] Andrew Bishop: So we know where the bodies are buried, but we need those embryonic creatives to come forward and say, "Here's a speaker for you. Here's an 18-inch subwoofer that you've never heard before," and then we'll make it and sell it around the world. And whoever the creative guy is, we'll either put his name on it or we'll give it a reference number that they want, and they can be part of the journey. So we've got the ability to turn anybody's dreams into reality.

[30:04] Andrew Bishop: And I think the best way to start is to give me a ring, and then we can say, "Right, should we do that?" And if honestly, I think it's not a good idea, I won't say it's not a good idea. I'll ask all the people in the room that I know, "So what do you think of this? What do you think of that?" And generally speaking, in our industry, there aren't many people that are, you know, self-centered, to be honest. They say, "Well, yeah, that's not a bad idea, let's do it."

[30:27] Andrew Bishop: And as I said earlier, if we get seven out of ten people saying that's a good thing, then we're off, we're away, and we can do it. So I'm very, very excited about the future, regardless of where we are presently and where we're likely to go, because good sound really matters, and good British sound is highly respected globally. We just need some people to come forward and say, "Try this, Bishi. You know, what about this? What about that?" And we'll get it going.

[30:57] John Schwab: Andrew, that's been fascinating. I mean, I could talk to you for hours, you know. This is my jam. It’s very much what we're trying to do is get people to realize that we may not be the biggest name in the room, but we're probably the most passionate.

[31:19] John Schwab: I love it, and that combination of people's hard work locally and our support, not only me, but Victoria as well, that you know, we'll be there for the whole journey. And we, you know, in a business, we offer a lifetime guarantee, we're not a one-trick pony, we're not box shifters. You know, for us it's all about the passion of making people's dreams reality, whether they be the listener, the performer, or the installer.

[31:47] John Schwab: Amazing. Andrew, thank you so much. All the best. Have a great week, and we'll chat to you soon. Thank you so much for your insightful answers. And I look forward to seeing you on many, many more We Make Events calls.

[32:00] Andrew Bishop: You certainly will. I'll be there.

[32:10] John Schwab: Now, before I go, just a few housekeeping bits. Quick reminder that you can download and subscribe to the podcast from Apple Podcasts or from iTunes, and that way your feed will be automatically updated when we release these episodes.

[32:23] John Schwab: But you can also listen to us on many other podcast streaming services such as Stitcher, Google Play, or the Broadway Podcast Network app. Check it out in the app store. Please rate and review our podcast if you have a spare 30 seconds or so and help us reach more live event theater lovers out there around the globe.

[32:41] John Schwab: You can follow us on all the socials Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook, and all of them at Curtain Call. That's all one word. And you can follow me at John Schwab, J O H N S C H W A B. We'd love to hear from you if you have any suggestions or feedback for the podcast. Get in touch with us via any of the social media platforms I just mentioned, or write to me personally at John at CurtainCallonline.com.

[33:02] John Schwab: Don't forget to sign up for a free profile on Curtain Call. If you are a theater, live events, or entertainment professional, go to CurtainCallOnline.com. We've launched our new platform recently. Innovate UK backed us and helped us get our industries back to work, getting our professionals supported like we've wanted to support them for ages.

[33:22] John Schwab: So it doesn't matter where you are in the world, sign up for a free profile. Do it, you won't regret it. Now it just leaves me to say a huge thank you to Andrew Bishop of Bishop Sound. Do get in touch with him if you have any questions for him. He will return your email. He will return your call. Head on over to BishopSound.com to find out more of what he, Victoria, and the team are up to these days.

[33:42] John Schwab: And I will put links in the show notes. Thank you to Sure Microphones for continuing to be our equipment sponsor. A huge thank you again, always to Salisha Thomas of Black Hair and the Big Leagues Podcast. If you haven't checked out our podcast, head on over to Broadway Podcast Network website or app and do just that.

[33:59] John Schwab: Lastly, a big thank you to all of you who tune into the podcast. Without you, we wouldn't be a podcast. So I look forward to bringing you even more of these pioneers soon. Stay safe and look after yourselves. Bye.