This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:04] Matt Humphrey: A little intro before the intro this week, as since recording this episode, a lot has happened in the wider world as well as closer to home.

[0:14] Matt Humphrey: While the entertainment industry is facing tough times ahead in the near future, I felt it was worth pointing out some good news in reference to this episode.

[0:22] Matt Humphrey: In particular, how one of the shows that we talk about, Baby Reindeer, has since been nominated for an Olivier Award, as has the West End production of Fleabag.

[0:32] Matt Humphrey: So without further ado, sit back, switch off for a little bit, and enjoy this chat with an inspirational person and now Olivier nominated producer, Francesca Moody.

[0:52] Matt Humphrey: Hello and welcome to No Pressure, a podcast for creatives, theatre makers, artists, and ambitious souls. I'm Matt Humphrey, photographer and co-founder of Curtain Call, and in this episode, I'm so honoured to be talking to the first producer of a little show called Fleabag, which a few of you may have heard about.

[1:18] Matt Humphrey: She's driven, witty, brilliantly creative, and just a joy to speak with. And took it to the Edinburgh Fringe. And she cut her teeth working as a producer at Paines Plough. The latest show that she's produced, Baby Reindeer, has just announced its West End transfer in co-production with Sonia Friedman, no less. Followed by a New York transfer. It was such a pleasure to meet Francesca and spend time with her on this. We recorded it in an office above the Soho Theatre in London, so you might hear the odd beep of a taxi horn on the street and other background noises, but they all add into the raw mix of what was a very open and honest conversation. I hope you enjoy it.

[2:28] Francesca Moody: I'm Francesca Moody, and I'm a producer, and I run my own production company, originally named Francesca Moody Productions.

[2:38] Matt Humphrey: Did you have to fight for that name?

[2:40] Francesca Moody: Really fight for it, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it cost me a lot of money to get that name.

[2:44] Matt Humphrey: Right, well I'm glad you did. Thank you so much for joining me on this podcast. It's very nice to meet you and to chat with you. Um we're here in Soho Theatre, which I guess holds a little bit of history for you.

[2:56] Francesca Moody: Yeah, very much so, yeah. So um, yeah, the Soho have kind of long been um supporters um of me as a producer and the work that I do. Um I first started my kind of I suppose my relationship with the Soho started um when I um started working with Phoebe Waller-Bridge and Vicky Jones um as the producer of their theatre company, Dry Write, back in 2012.

[3:23] Francesca Moody: Um, and they were uh producing their first historically what they've been doing was producing these kind of um kind of uh short play nights.

[3:33] Matt Humphrey: Right.

[3:33] Francesca Moody: Um, and um then they decided they wanted to uh produce a full-length play. Um and uh I knew Vicky from my time at drama school. Actually, she came and directed me in a show at the end.

[3:45] Matt Humphrey: Oh that's right, because you used to be an actress.

[3:46] Francesca Moody: I did, yeah, very much. Absolutely. No, definitely used to be, thank god. Um but yeah, so that's how I'd met her. Um I'd started producing like almost straight away when I left drama school and kind of was doing that thing where I stayed in touch with lots of people and kind of um email people about little friend shows that I was producing or helping out on, and um so Vicky and I had stayed in touch anyway, and then her and uh Phoebe were doing their first full-length show here at the Soho upstairs, and they were associate company here.

[4:18] Matt Humphrey: And that wasn't Fleabag, though, was it?

[4:20] Francesca Moody: That wasn't Fleabag, no.

[4:21] Francesca Moody: So that was a play called My Daughters, which was um a play by um Jack Thorne, who's probably now best known for writing the Harry Potter plays amongst many things. Um and it was a play set in a bathroom, and Phoebe was in it and Vicky directed it, and there was another actor called Keir Charles who was in it as well. So that's how my relationship with the Soho Theatre really started through um through Dry Write, and then of course after My Daughters um we made uh Fleabag, um which hopefully most people who are listening to this podcast might know something about.

[4:53] Matt Humphrey: I'm sure a few people have.

[4:54] Francesca Moody: Uh, and um yeah, and uh took that show to the Edinburgh Festival, and then um once we'd done that on our own, the Soho kind of uh supported us to bring it back here and then kind of uh I guess um grow the production like over a number of years alongside um alongside its kind of success as a television series.

[5:16] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, of course. Were you at all involved in that?

[5:18] Francesca Moody: No, I wasn't really. There's a one um like one of my greatest regrets of my life is that Phoebe Waller-Bridge asked me to play a teeny tiny part in Fleabag in season one, like one scene and I don't I didn't have any lines at the time I was working at Paines Plough.

[5:37] Matt Humphrey: Okay.

[5:38] Francesca Moody: And something was going really um something something was very tricky. Something very tricky was going on at Paines Plough like on a project I was working on that required like lots of attention and um I remember sort of having a conversation with myself, you know in the loo basically going you're not an actress Francesca you're a producer and uh so I had to turn her down because um yeah yeah I couldn't I couldn't give away so a bit of a regret then.

[5:42] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, a bit of a regret, you know never mind. You can't have many regrets though it seems to have gone very nicely for you what fortuitous kind of line of events that brought you together with Phoebe and and Vicky in the first place.

[6:13] Francesca Moody: Yeah yeah yeah very much so yeah I mean um because sometimes people ask me whether I uh yeah whether the fact that I trained at drama school feels like um you know something that was particularly valuable given that I've subsequently not pursued a career as a performer um but actually that I was I think about it often actually I was thinking about it the other day just about how actually instrumental that um that period of time at Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama was for me just in terms of like developing my network because I think as a producer actually so much of the success that I've had and I think I hope other producers would um agree with me is about network yeah about meeting people about getting to know people, about finding common ground, um, you know, about inspiring each other, and then you know, finding people to collaborate with and work with.

[7:09] Francesca Moody: So actually, training there at drama school really um really helped with that because it introduced me to Vicky, it introduced me to a number of people who I've worked with subsequently, you know, and opened multiple doors for me in ways that you wouldn't necessarily imagine.

[7:25] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, it could be. It's a really interesting industry in that respect, isn't it? Because you kind of you never know where a conversation could end up.

[7:32] Francesca Moody: Yeah.

[7:33] Matt Humphrey: But also it seems to me that there's quite a few people that start off in one discipline and kind of end up in another completely different area.

[7:41] Francesca Moody: Yeah, totally.

[7:43] Francesca Moody: But it's great that it kind of embraces that um multi-hyphenate trend, I guess, that a lot of people are kind of experiencing now, that you kind of you can be an actor and a producer and a writer.

[7:57] Francesca Moody: Yeah, absolutely. I think I know I I can I completely agree, and I think it's that really exciting thing about um, yeah, I think there's I think there's a really brilliant trend for people just you know grabbing their opportunities and um and you know making work for themselves, you know. I think maybe Fleabag is a good example of that, and what Vicky and Phoebe were doing anyway with Dry Write prior to that, just you know, actually saying like we want we're gonna make the theatre that we want to make and um we're gonna do it in the way that we want to, and obviously, um you know you there are multiple ways you can do that, and you know, you know, on the baseline it can you can showcase your own talents or you can stretch yourself and you can meet new people and that's a really inspiring environment to kind of work in, I imagine.

[8:45] Matt Humphrey: But I mean, so cut let's go back to that point and and talk about that a little bit more because I'm really interested because I mean to a lot of people listening, obviously Phoebe Waller-Bridge is uh like a household name now, she is, and Vicky Jones hopefully is too as well. But at that point in time, was it um had you decided that you wanted to produce? Was it something that you'd already made the decision to kind of go look I don't want to act anymore, I'm gonna start looking for these other opportunities?

[9:14] Francesca Moody: Yeah, it was sort of a very like um sort of very seamless and kind of gentle move from acting into uh into producing. I I wouldn't say there was one big moment where I was like I'm not an actor anymore. Um I uh I just was always such a because I went to university before I went to drama school, so I only did a year at drama school just a post-grad.

[9:41] Francesca Moody: Okay, um rather than full four years, but uh I was always like a maker and a doer, and um I would always been like that at school as well. Um, and um not very good at uh sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring and and sorry just to preface that by saying I don't think anybody who isn't also trying to do other things is that is doing that if they're an actor at all. But for me, like I wasn't really I think as an actor you have to really like it's a job and you have to work really hard to to to make your opportunities for yourself. It isn't as simple as just turn I mean like for a very small percentage of people it's as simple as turning up to the auditions and getting the parts, but actually for the majority you have to really work at it.

[10:24] Francesca Moody: Um and um so uh so I wasn't getting so I wasn't getting the jobs and my agent wasn't really calling, and I always really liked to and I was always really passionate about theatre very specifically. Um and uh and so look there were a sort of a series of fortunate events which which led me up to I suppose doing that show original show with Vicky and Phoebe where I'd sort of just helped friends out on projects, like somebody, a director that I'd worked with needed some help on um some press for a show that he was doing on the fringe, and then a friend had written a play and he wanted to put it on.

[10:59] Francesca Moody: So I was sort of and then a friend of mine needed to raise some needed to raise some money for a research and development project, and he was over 26 and I was under 26, so we could apply to Ideas Tap through these that so there were all these, and it so it wasn't there wasn't any kind of I didn't I didn't sort of go, I'm gonna try producing now. It just sort of really seamlessly happened over a period of about a year.

[11:23] Francesca Moody: But I was really enjoying the ability to kind of um discover how to use my kind of skills and my knowledge, uh my passion for theatre, like in a slightly different way.

[11:36] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, but I guess that's down to your character.

[11:37] Francesca Moody: Well, like being open-minded to kind of say yes to things, but also to go out looking for stuff at the same time.

[11:44] Matt Humphrey: Yeah.

[11:45] Francesca Moody: Um and I think that's a real lesson to like a lot of young people coming into the game, whether they're acting or producing or directing, it's just the kind of look for those opportunities and and just go with it.

[11:59] Francesca Moody: Yeah, totally, and I think to just be open to try it to to trying new things and to seeing if you and to s to seeing if you like it, because there are so many there are so many things that you can do in this industry that aren't just um necessarily as evident as like the obvious things, like even producing, you know, um, you know, is a it's a very clear, you know, you can see that there's a producer sure uh of a show, and you can see that there's an actor of a show, and it's just like yeah, being open to those opportunities um for kind of working in different areas of the industry.

[12:29] Matt Humphrey: I mean that that's the skill set right as well isn't it and you you can learn how to be a producer. Did did your time at Paines Plough help you with that?

[12:37] Francesca Moody: Definitely yeah yeah yeah that was the kind of good training ground for me because um up until that point I suppose I uh very much sort of learned as I as as I went and sort of I had some support from some um you know in that way like I built my network and so I would ask questions of kind of people who were doing those jobs if I needed answers but I mean I very much had learned how to do it on my own and and um I probably made more mistakes than I had um than than right decisions.

[13:07] Francesca Moody: That's that's a good thing.

[13:08] Francesca Moody: Yeah yeah no no no but the yeah the only way to learn really um from anything is is by making mistakes anyway in my opinion. But um but yeah but at Paines Plough I think yeah what I got at Paines Plough was just a really like robust um and um training uh from from the kind of senior team in in in how to in how to produce and how to you know how to produce properly but how to do that within the culture of you know um like openness and inclusivity and also you know learning the um Paines Plough is a national portfolio organisation so kind of learning that part of the kind of sector and um you know what what it means to you know what what it means to be an MPO and what it means to kind of have some um something that you have to some some targets that you have to hit back essentially to the arts council, and um, and also, you know, I feel very fortunate that I was working in a new writing company as well, you know, and one that is you know has historically kind of platformed and um galvanized the careers as some of the most exciting writers.

[14:18] Francesca Moody: Yeah, so it was sort of simultaneously kind of developing my skills as a producer and stretching me, and also at the same time developing, helping me to develop my taste in theatre and my knowledge of the sector, wider sector, and also my kind of knowledge of writers and artists that I want to work with.

[14:38] Matt Humphrey: And what is your taste?

[14:41] Francesca Moody: What is my taste? Um, I mean, did it so I I I think I read somewhere that when you first read Fleabag, you just knew.

[14:50] Matt Humphrey: Yeah.

[14:50] Francesca Moody: Like, and that was before that it ever gone on to stage.

[14:54] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, that's before it went on to stage, definitely.

[14:56] Francesca Moody: Okay. So I think why that's your taste.

[14:58] Matt Humphrey: Yes, that's my taste, clearly.

[14:59] Francesca Moody: Fleabag is my taste. Um, so I think so. There's like one thing that's connected to taste for me, which is really important when I'm reading work, is gut instinct.

[15:10] Matt Humphrey: Yeah.

[15:11] Francesca Moody: Um, so, and it sounds like such an unoriginal thing to say, but I think for me, the most important thing is on the reading of the play.

[15:24] Matt Humphrey: Yeah.

[15:25] Francesca Moody: Or that even the discussing of the idea is to have that initial like really like potent gut instinct.

[15:33] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, like a visceral connection to it.

[15:35] Francesca Moody: Yeah, exactly, yeah. And so Fleabag really taught me to have that instinct, and I think, you know, in terms of my taste, obviously that gut instinct is attached to, you know, for me, the most important things in the work that I produce now are that it's entertaining, um, and that doesn't mean it has to be like funny, but just that, you know, it can be compelling.

[16:04] Matt Humphrey: It's got you gripped, it's got you gripped, exactly.

[16:06] Francesca Moody: It's accessible, so um, it's the kind of theatre that anybody can come and see um and take something from. Um, like I don't like to feel like people are being um lectured when they come to my shows, um, and that it's responding to the world right now, so it has to feel current. Obviously, my work tends to be, in fact, has all been new work, so um, and so my I think my gut instinct is obviously very much attached to um what's happening going on in the world without even necessarily knowing it.

[16:41] Matt Humphrey: I won't necessarily be like, oh that's a really current thing that's happening, yeah, sure.

[16:45] Francesca Moody: And that I can I'm connecting it to this play, but of course, naturally I'm responding to the world around me and what's happening culturally and socially and politically, and then that is often feeding into my taste. Um, but yeah, it just has to grip me, you know.

[17:00] Matt Humphrey: And I mean it's quite interesting actually that a number of the plays that you've produced and have been involved with have been relatively small casts if not one person plays. Is that also something that you look for, or just happens to be the case?

[17:15] Francesca Moody: No, I think that's just happened to be the case, and I think um yeah, because I've got this. I think one of the reasons that it's maybe happened to be the case um after Fleabag is because I have obviously, got a or have as an independent producer, certainly have had a reputation for um taking work to the Edinburgh Festival, and um the Edinburgh Festival feels like the kind of place that people take one person's shows to um for a myriad of reasons. Um but I'm not necessarily looking for one person shows.

[17:51] Matt Humphrey: Um, I think one person shows are often plays that people I often find that playwrights, early career playwrights write one person shows either for themselves, if they're kind of actor writers, or because it's um I'm not a playwright, but that it's something that's you know, it's easier initially to get your first or second thing like out on the page in kind of one go.

[18:19] Francesca Moody: Um, I guess that you know it must be a work of passion that first piece for a lot of new writers, and therefore something quite personal. So perhaps it's just the nature of the beast that a lot of these you know pieces of new writing are written, you know, for one person or for a very small cast.

[18:38] Matt Humphrey: Totally, yeah, yeah.

[18:39] Francesca Moody: Um, but I guess it also stands up that the play itself is strong enough to not need a lot of production elements to it as well.

[18:49] Matt Humphrey: Definitely, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[18:50] Francesca Moody: And it is all about words, words, words as well, you know. Um, the most exciting theatre can be uh, you know, something that doesn't have any settle props, or you know, it's just a person standing in a room, and you know, like with Fleabag again, for example, or even with you know, actually, we won't use Baby Raindeer as an example, which is my show at the Bush right now, just because there's so much going on in that show, um, it doesn't have much set, but there's a lot. Um, but yeah, with Fleabag, obviously, it's just you know, one of the most satisfying things for me, amongst the many satisfying things about that show is that it's just Phoebe, yeah, sat on a chair, so there's nowhere to hide, you know, and it is this just brilliant one-hour monologue.

[19:31] Matt Humphrey: Um, it's so honest, isn't it?

[19:33] Francesca Moody: It's fantastic.

[19:35] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[19:35] Francesca Moody: And um, and it's all Phoebe and it's all the words, and you know, that that's kind of enough, and you know, that's that's really exciting when you can you know, when you can do that with theatre, yeah.

[19:47] Matt Humphrey: And and you're right, in terms of like making it accessible as well, because you've you've taken productions abroad, right?

[19:53] Francesca Moody: That's why yeah, yeah.

[19:54] Matt Humphrey: Is it SquareGo that went to the next year?

[19:55] Francesca Moody: Square Go went to New York, yeah, yeah, yeah. And obviously Fleabag this year also went to New York, so um, but Square Go was a two-hander, which is quite exciting.

[20:03] Matt Humphrey: Wow, doubled the cost.

[20:04] Francesca Moody: I know, I know, I know. Slightly more expensive to produce, but um, and how did that go? Because that I think it was on tour to Brighton.

[20:11] Matt Humphrey: It was, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[20:12] Francesca Moody: That's the kind of show that should really just uh tour and tour and tour. Um, it's all of the things that I was just saying, you know, entertaining, accessible, like important, current, um, just for everybody. Um, in terms of New York, yeah, like New York taking Square Go to New York was a really good experience for me. Very, very challenging, because it's the New York theatre scene is so um saturated.

[20:41] Matt Humphrey: Um, I mean, and I think probably we're saturated here, but I mean, I my perception of the New York theatre is this is a lot more saturated than and also I think just working out it's a big lesson for me taking that show to New York in just thinking about audience and who your audience are.

[20:59] Francesca Moody: Was it part of the Brits Abroad thing?

[21:01] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, Bricks of Broadway at 59 to 59, yeah, which is a really fantastic.

[21:05] Francesca Moody: Yeah, totally different things.

[21:06] Matt Humphrey: Brits abroad, yeah.

[21:08] Francesca Moody: That sounds like um that sounds that sounds like a kind of ITV uh 9 pm.

[21:10] Matt Humphrey: Belladorms.

[21:12] Francesca Moody: Yeah, exactly.

[21:13] Matt Humphrey: It wasn't that?

[21:14] Francesca Moody: Um, no, it definitely wasn't that. Um, we wanted to rename it Scots Scots Off Broadway because it's um well it's such a Scottish play, and so that thing about audience, just um, you know, really thinking about who is my audience and how am I going to get them um to the theatre? And so it was a really big learning, really big learning curve for me. We did the show did absolutely fine in the end, but it was a little bit scary at times, or a bit hairy, I should say, just because um you know, 59 is 59, it's a fantastic Brits of Broadway is a fantastic way to get work to New York, particularly if you're a young company, or particularly um yeah, yeah, uh it's just not so easy to be.

[21:56] Matt Humphrey: They're very supportive environment and theatre though as well.

[21:58] Francesca Moody: Yeah, very much so, yeah, yeah.

[22:00] Francesca Moody: And they're really passionate, I think, about programming and challenging their audiences because their kind of major subscriber base is is kind of older people.

[22:09] Matt Humphrey: That's right.

[22:10] Francesca Moody: That's absolutely fine. Um, so that was I suppose the big challenge for us was it wasn't a normal piece of theatre that their subscriber base would engage with.

[22:18] Matt Humphrey: Right.

[22:19] Francesca Moody: Um, so we had to just think a little bit more um creatively about how to reach our audiences and how to get them to the production change at all? Because it c it came from Edinburgh straight away, straight over it all.

[22:31] Matt Humphrey: No, so it started in Edinburgh in 2018, and that was in roundabout um Pain's Power Plains Ploughs pop up touring theatre.

[22:38] Francesca Moody: Okay, and then uh and then it went in June, the following June. So actually, and then we went back to Edinburgh this year, so actually we went from um from New York to Edinburgh this year, which was nice. Um, the only thing that changed about it, because we we were very uh Finn, the brilliant um Finn Den Hertok, who's a brilliant director of that show, he you know, we and and Gary and Kieran who wrote it, like we're all very clear about you know not um shifting and changing something um to make it more conventionally coherent for um an American audience because it is so Scottish and um and but I think it was the right decision actually ultimately because the story itself is incredibly universal and and and just very fun to engage with.

[23:27] Matt Humphrey: Yeah.

[23:28] Francesca Moody: So um the only carrier.

[23:30] Matt Humphrey: No, I was gonna say the only thing that really changed about it was that I suppose we kind of shrunk the show ever so slightly um because we went from doing it in roundabout, which is 168-seat in the round venue, and we took it into the smaller space of 59 is 59, which was like a kind of I think 60 seater venue.

[23:48] Francesca Moody: Yeah, so yeah, the only thing that changed was like how do we create this kind of wrestling rings style kind of big crowd show that encourages audience interaction, which totally lends itself to the roundabout in the first place, exactly, and it works so well in that space, you know. How do we how do we how do we move that into a much smaller setting?

[24:10] Matt Humphrey: Yeah.

[24:10] Francesca Moody: Um, but actually I think we were very successful.

[24:13] Matt Humphrey: Did you enjoy that challenge? Because that must be part of the challenge of being a producer, right? Is kind of adapting a show to a different venue um or to a different audience, demographic, whatever it is. Does that excite you?

[24:25] Francesca Moody: Does it yeah, definitely, yeah. It's um, yeah, it's it's they're they're kind of fun creative problems to kind of solve and and kind of collaborate with your team on. So, yes, definitely in that regard, I think um very much enjoyed the challenge of kind of downscaling it, and also because I knew for what was so great about New York was that I knew that Square Go had to have and should have and would have a life outside of Roundabout and Edinburgh, where of course it was hugely successful because it's a Scottish show, you know, with you know well-known Scottish writers and the Scottish team, etc. Um, but it needs to needed to have a life outside of that on tour specifically.

[25:09] Matt Humphrey: Um, and so it it was a show that I knew would have to flex um and be flexible in order to make sure that it was kind of going everywhere and meeting all of those audiences who couldn't come to Edinburgh and who didn't live in New York.

[25:25] Francesca Moody: Um, I mean, talk me through the kind of um ins and outs then of of taking a show on because obviously the first thing would be reading the script itself, and then what happens next, like for or how do you do it?

[25:42] Francesca Moody: Um, so for me, so we could take Baby Raindeer as an example. So for me, uh Baby Raindeer script lands in my email inbox and I decide to um read it. Find it very hard to find time to read scripts, which is crazy because that's the most important thing you could do as a producer. Um, yeah, so read the script, absolutely love it, have that instant gut reaction that we were talking about.

[26:07] Matt Humphrey: Yeah.

[26:07] Francesca Moody: Um, like just know in my like heart that I really need to produce it, have that real emotional response to it. So, so know that I need to get the made find basically know that I need to get the person who's written it on board with working with me, essentially. So, for me, the next step after I read a play is um if it's not a play with someone who I already have a relationship with, and so actually Richard Gadd is a really good example of someone who I knew of who I never met, and and actually Gad had the same kind of um the same kind of relationship to me, like knew of me and had met me.

[26:26] Matt Humphrey: So for me, the next step is to meet that person, or to meet in that case him and the director John, who were both attached, and to kind of I suppose make my case, state my case for for taking on that project.

[27:01] Francesca Moody: Um, and then presumably they've sent it to a number of producers, right?

[27:05] Matt Humphrey: Yeah.

[27:05] Francesca Moody: So you're kind of pitching for how you're gonna do it better or differently, or whatever it is.

[27:10] Francesca Moody: Totally, yeah. And I think, yeah, you're you're going and and and meeting somebody who and you're saying, you know, I'm you know, you're the most important thing is that you know it's it's like anything, like it's if an actor is choosing an agent, or you you know, somebody was choosing a a drama school, or you know, you would you were choosing a lighting designer that you wanted to work with, like you need to find some kind of um yeah, you you need to feel like you like each other and that it feels like the right fit, and um, so you know, so as much so it was also about that that in that instinct kind of that initial gut instinct, like making sure that that existed in the meeting as well with the guys from my perspective, and then also for their perspective, feeling like I was the right sort of person to um produce it.

Um, luckily when we met it was absolutely fine, and in fact, it turned out later down the line that they thought they were pitching to me, and I thought it was pitching to them, so that was very nice.

[28:07] Francesca Moody: So, yeah, it was you know, we were we already kind of wanted to work with each other, which was good. Um, and then from there it's basically uh um all full steam ahead in lots of different ways. So it's uh I suppose working out where and how you're putting the show on, yeah. Um so in the case of Baby Reindeer, it was about uh persuading Gad that Edinburgh was the right market to present that show in for the first time, right? Because that was premiering it, um, and it was about um I didn't take much persuading, I should say, it's just that he had a long he's got a long history of presenting work at the Edinburgh Festival, um, but for me, um, it was about thinking about like in terms of that show and the long life of that show and the potential of that show, like what's the best way to start its journey off.

Because at the moment, I suppose the level that I'm producing at uh because the work starts small and tends to um to grow over a number of years, yeah. It's just thinking like how can I give that show the best chance to kind of flourish in a in a long-term capacity for for me as the producer and for the artists involved. Um, so yeah, so it was so it's like where's it going? Okay, it's going to Edinburgh because Edinburgh is a perfect place to kind of um start a show like this. Gad's already got a relationship with the audience, is there's gonna be a buzz around it, it'll be a really good way to launch launch it for a London run and actually um uh thinking about where that London run was, um, and for Bush had already supported a kind of uh kind of reading of the play, so and they were very interested in the show, so actually kind of making sure that that was all nipped in the buds before Edinburgh, um so that was like one strand was like doing that.

The other bit was putting the team together. Okay, so that was me, Gad and John Britton, who's the director, working out kind of how we see the show kind of being realized and who the right people are to help us do that. Um and um and that's when like when my job I think is really exciting. Um well, all of this is very exciting, but I love this bit because I've had the great pleasure of working with so many um brilliant creatives over over the years, and actually I've started to build these really kind of meaningful relationships with lighting designers and sound designers, and um, and so and and and I really like being part of that conversation, yeah, and um, and of course, by this point we know that we're gonna go and take um Baby Reindeer to roundabout in Edinburgh, and I have a long history of working with that venue anyway.

Square Go was in there, and then before that I worked for Payne's Plough, so I know the venue very well, so I could sort of think about who were the right people to work with that space because it is a challenging space in many ways. Um so that so you so you're sort of doing that in tandem as well, and then you're doing all the kind of like boring admin side of stuff like contracting people and um sorting out the logistics once you got you know, once you got your team together, all award shows as well. No, unfortunately not, and also thinking about kind of like how do we package this show and um and present it to audiences, and and again, what's that thing that's gonna make sure that this is the show that people know about, you know, and that that's when you start to think about marketing.

Um, but again, that's all collabor, you know, at my at my level right now, that's all about collaboration that's all about like talking to Richard and John and thinking about you know it's it's such a wonderful industry for that really isn't it yeah I mean you say you talk about like collaboration and and and the the royal way as well as the collaborative way in terms of working with a creative team but you've I mean you've set yourself up now as as an independent and individual producer um I imagine Sonia Friedman did the same thing a few years ago uh but now there's a whole factory not a factory but a lot of people working with her do you do you see yourself kind of going that way or is this just at the moment you want to work on your own and you've taken that leap and you're gonna do that for a little while or no I definitely see myself going that direction um yeah I mean my ambition is very much to you know it's up like an upside down down triangle isn't it's like to grow the to grow the to grow the organization um and to you know produce work which is more um which is more ambitious and it's bigger and goes to bigger theatres sure um I mean at the moment I think I'm you know I could you know I want to tour work I want to take it internationally I would like to do some more work on the West End like I was gonna say you're doing all right yeah international shows like a West End show Edinburgh all over the place yeah I think so and I like to think um for me yeah I'm thinking really ambitiously about like how can the work get bigger and you know in in in all sorts of contexts like you know, bigger casts, um bigger productions generally, you know, um more places.

[33:21] Francesca Moody: Um like it's excuse the crude question, but is that purely a financial question or is that it is it is a financial question, it is a financial question. So I suppose what I'm doing, yeah, because the work costs money, and that's the other thing that I didn't talk about when I was talking about uh what we're doing. No, it's totally fine. Um with the work, yeah. The other big thing is to is to work out how you're paying for it and to raise that money. Um so yeah, so it is a financial question because it uh and so that's why it's a kind of road, it's a road of growth, really, because I suppose what I'm doing at the moment is I'm is I'm you know, making my statement of intent as Francesca Mini Productions, proving that I've got you know, hopefully that I've got good taste and that that I support and make good work, and then you know, each time I then and you know building my relationship with artists so that they know the type of work that I like, and then when I get around to commissioning or developing work with them, they can you know we can talk about how how much you know what we want to do with that, but also about those people who are I suppose those organizations that I'm working with in co-production or uh you know, funder, whether it's whether it's funders like the arts council or whether it's invest you know, investors on a more more commercial model, I'm kind of proving my I'm sort of like value proposition.

[34:36] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, exactly.

[34:39] Francesca Moody: Exactly, yeah, that's exactly what it is. And so it's just about you know, I'm just on that journey, I suppose, of upscaling the work in that way, really. Um but it's exciting.

[34:49] Matt Humphrey: It is exciting, it's really exciting to see it as well.

[34:52] Francesca Moody: Um I'm gonna kind of go slightly off off key here.

[34:57] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, of course.

[34:58] Francesca Moody: Um why do you think there's not typically a lot of women producers? And we've talked about Sonia, but really the you know, sh she stands out because she's done an incredible job over the last 20 years of making a name for herself and being affiliated with extremely successful productions. But it starts with an acorn, right? So how much has that changed the atmosphere and the environment that you you you've kind of set yourself up in as a as a young female producer within the industry?

[35:34] Francesca Moody: Yeah, so I think the reason I think that there aren't so I think what Sonia is is she's like absolute 100% goals for um certainly for me, just in terms of what she's doing, like everything that you said rings so true. Um absolutely incredible productions, um, you know, done really, really well, and there really isn't another, you know, she's she you know, she's really yeah, she's really doing something very exciting. Um I think the reason there aren't that I think there are a lot of female producers, but I think um they are inside buildings and um in the subsidised sector, I think we are without looking at any statistics, you know, I'd I'd say that in the in the in the in the subsidized sector there are there are way more female, we're way more female heavy than we are male heavy.

[36:26] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, no no no no an incorrect assumption there.

[36:30] Francesca Moody: No no not at all. I think you're you're but the producers that we I suppose the producers that we hear about and we know about, like the camera Macintoshes of the world, for example, you know, the Bill Kem rights, like the the re yeah, the the reason I think it means it's it's just it's just that that thing about, you know, women are, you know, we're we're sort of we're sort of on a journey in terms of our own um, you know, for opportunities for for female for women in the arts generally and for I mean for you know women globally.

[37:04] Matt Humphrey: Um and um And have you felt that shift, that landscape shift over the last kind of ten years or so?

[37:09] Francesca Moody: Um I definitely feel the land like it hasn't in I suppose it hasn't impacted me directly um in a way that I've felt like a big a big shift because I think I'm part of that group of um younger people younger I'm not young but you know younger people who are quite young Youngish um that are that are are haven't getting getting gaining those opportunities 'cause there has been this movement to kind of yeah remove some of the barriers. Um I think you're right, in terms of like women producers within buildings and you know, there's Vicky Featherson's done an amazing job at the Royal Court, for example.

[37:47] Matt Humphrey: Yeah.

[37:47] Francesca Moody: Um now at the Bush Theatre as well.

[37:49] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, there's a fantastic ceiling out there as well.

[37:51] Francesca Moody: Yeah, you know, so there is there is a kind of ground swell of definitely if there's a glass ceiling, it's being broken.

[37:58] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, totally.

[37:58] Francesca Moody: I completely agree with you and I think there is a fantastic and so I think, yes, I agree with you that there has been like I think there is a shift, like a a more kind of a a bigger shift like that you can see of m of more women running buildings um which uh will directly be impacting um uh yeah, us uh smaller ones, um I think.

[38:21] Francesca Moody: Um but yeah, and I I but I think it's only a matter of time before there are a few more kind of you know, Sonia Friedman's of the of the.

[38:30] Matt Humphrey: Francesca Moody's is as well.

[38:33] Francesca Moody: Um yeah, and I think, you know, but I think, you know, as women, I think we are we're doing we're I think we're doing okay.

[38:39] Francesca Moody: Um, you know, I think I've you know the arts could be doing more to um to encourage I think we could do more for diversity.

[38:48] Matt Humphrey: We'll probably always be doing more in that respect, definitely.

[38:50] Francesca Moody: I think in terms of the work that you've done, it's it's really interesting to have seen the plays that you've already produced, and I'm and I'm wondering kind of what's next and whether you've got anything in the pipeline or not, or whether this is I'm sure you do.

[39:05] Francesca Moody: I do have something spill the beans.

[39:08] Francesca Moody: Yes. Uh so at the moment the one thing that I definitely know that I'm that's new is a new play that I'm developing with Morgan Lloyd Malcolm.

[39:19] Matt Humphrey: Oh right.

[39:19] Francesca Moody: Yeah, who who some people will know and some people won't, but she's best known for writing a play called Amelia, which was on at the Globe and um did fantastically well and then went into the West End and was just uh absolutely incredible piece of theatre.

[39:35] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, of course.

[39:36] Francesca Moody: Um so I'm working with her and a director called Abigail Graham to develop a new play um called Mum, which is about being a parent, about being a mum.

[39:46] Francesca Moody: But it's it started, I think it sort of started life, I suppose, as something that felt like it could be a thriller about postpartum psychosis, but it's kind of moved on from that to be something which is much more about um what it feels like to have a when you have a child, all those crazy places your mind can go to in terms of what could possibly happen.

[40:11] Matt Humphrey: Wow.

[40:11] Francesca Moody: Um, and so it is so it is a thriller and it will keep the audience guessing, but it is also you know, about real lived experience of being a parent.

[40:20] Matt Humphrey: I mean, I'm not a parent, you're a parent, so maybe you can identify them.

[40:24] Francesca Moody: I'm not a mum, but I can yeah, I can certainly say that.

[40:26] Francesca Moody: Um it sounds like a really daring piece and a really interesting piece that I'm sure we'll do will have an audience as we're talking about accessibility.

[40:34] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, that's definitely gonna have an audience.

[40:36] Francesca Moody: Definitely, and I think, yeah, talking about something which you know, yeah, we should be we should be putting on stage, I think, and um, and it's a three-hander, so three three actors, you know, upscaling going home one by one.

[40:50] Matt Humphrey: Excellent.

[40:51] Francesca Moody: Um, and in terms of of that project, uh I mean how how far along is that is that um early days or yeah, it's sort of like we're sort of sort of midway, I suppose.

[41:00] Francesca Moody: So we kind of know what we're supposed to be doing with it, but nothing's set in stone, so I couldn't I couldn't really say, but um you know, I've got like a plan in my head of when it's um happening next year and who the partners are to help us put it together, really.

[41:16] Matt Humphrey: I'm really looking forward to that.

[41:17] Francesca Moody: Yeah, it's a bit um, and you know you mentioned downstairs about uh having not necessarily a quiet time but a quieter time than you've had had over the last kind of six months or so.

[41:27] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, yeah.

[41:28] Francesca Moody: Is that a moment for you to kind of reanalyse and go, well, like I don't want to take on too much, or are you not at that point just yet?

[41:36] Francesca Moody: No, no, no, that's it's you're it's exactly what I'm doing. I'm actually doing a bit of a retrospective strategy, I think. So looking at what uh worked over the last um because really Francesca Community Productions got set up in uh 2018 when I was working at with another company called Curious Directive.

[41:55] Francesca Moody: But um, yeah, but sort of my initial strategy for the company generally was just like throwing things at the wall and like producing the shows that I wanted to do.

[42:05] Francesca Moody: So yeah, so now I'm in that place of retrospectively looking at what worked, what didn't, and like how I can kind of evolve the way I work on shows and what I might need in order to help the business grow or to help the shows flourish or be more ambitious and that's probably working with other people.

[42:24] Francesca Moody: Yeah, co-producers and I think also, you know, working towards maybe employing other people on the shows, you know, whether that's like other freelance producers who come and work for me on a project by project basis or whether it's somebody who works in a more, you know, in a longer term capacity to help me kind of grow things. Yeah, well you've gone from zero to one and I think that our next step of kind of expanding the team as well is really crucial to do it in the right way obviously.

[42:24] Matt Humphrey: Um that we've kind of spoken about you essentially being like a startup and a bit I'm kind of drawing the parallels here a little bit but it does um it does certainly feel like you've kind of proven your attraction you've got an audience you've got some really good milestones behind you and now you're kind of ready for that next step and I'm really excited to see how that pans out.

[43:17] Francesca Moody: Me too. Are you sticking just to theatre or are you interested in screen work at all?

[43:17] Francesca Moody: Definitely interested in screen work and yeah, I think because quite a bit of the work that I've produced has gone on to have a life in the television context and I think, you know, we're in a really exciting time right now. It's never been more exciting to be making and telling stories and having ideas, like the world is desperate for content, and um so absolutely in terms of the sustainability of the business, I've definitely thought about how, you know, working in screen or how working with television companies or film companies can help facilitate this work, the theatre work, and also help me grow into that area at the same time.

[44:11] Matt Humphrey: Do you think that's just how it is now that if you're going into theatre you've got to have an eye on also going on to screen productions or no?

[44:11] Francesca Moody: I don't think so. I mean I think it really depends what you want to do yourself, but um, but I think most producers in some way are thinking about, you know, I not most producers, sorry, I don't want to tarnish everybody with the same brush, but like I think, you know, from a business perspective, it makes a lot of sense to me.

[44:37] Matt Humphrey: Yeah.

[44:38] Francesca Moody: Um yeah, just finding new ways of collaborating and thinking maybe just a little bit more outside the box in terms of who your partners are.

[44:47] Francesca Moody: Um you know, really good example of that is you know, even the Soho Theatre, they have a partnership with um MBC Um Universal.

[44:57] Matt Humphrey: Right.

[44:58] Francesca Moody: Um and um and I think MBC basically sponsors their um sponsor a development program for writers, and um so even if you know, even you know, you big organizations thinking about like how can they foster a relationship with um an organization in a different medium who might be able to facilitate kind of because a lot of the work does start, you know, if you look at some of the some of the people that are really succeeding in television writing right now, um they're all they all started in theatre, you know, like um yeah, Mike Bartlett doing Dr. Foster or you know, Lucid Prevalence Accession or you know, Phoebe and Fleabag, um so that you know, or Jack Thorne writes loads for TV, so just just thinking actually you know this is where a lot of those people start.

[45:35] Francesca Moody: Um yeah absolutely and I think it goes back to that um accessibility as well like there seems to be an expectation now that you can consume content wherever you are but I guess that's what's so magical about theatre in a way is that you have to go to a venue you have to sit down and experience that.

[46:11] Matt Humphrey: Are you interested in how theatre can and is evolving? You know there's so many more immersive theatre productions now but you've also got theatre appearing on the big screen. I mean you know Fleabag was put on NT Live and uh there's over the last kind of 10-15 years there seems to have been also like a bit of a shift to get more people seeing theatre but in a different context.

[46:38] Francesca Moody: Yeah is that something that you're interested in professionally?

[46:38] Francesca Moody: Is definitely yeah yeah yeah and I used to think that um I think you know five or six years ago I might have felt a bit funny about or I was a bit huffy about um the idea of NT Live or you know there are plenty of other organisations doing something similar to NT Live but actually I think there's um like I think it's like the true democratization of the work you know not everybody can come and see the show in London you know and yes we should be finding better ways to make sure that that really brilliant work has a life regionally, for example yeah but when that's not always possible, actually that access that point of accessibility that something like NT Live offers, for example, I think is really um I think is really brilliant.

[47:30] Francesca Moody: Um and I, you know, the quality of the way that it's um produced, I think often is outstanding.

[47:38] Francesca Moody: And I myself have been, you know, and I live in London, so I've got you know the best of the best on my doorstep, and I still go and see stuff, NT Live stuff, because sometimes I literally can't get a ticket, and it is the only way I can see the show, and you know, obviously I consume theatre at a much higher rate than you know the average, you know, person.

[48:01] Francesca Moody: Um but yeah, I think there's you know, I I'm I'm very interested in finding ways of using I would absolutely say that that's part of you know finding ways of of using different mediums to you know like absolutely democratize and you know um offer the work and actually when I even when I worked at Payne's Plough we did some live streaming of we live streamed um on YouTube a show that I produced for Payne's Plough called with a little bit of luck.

[48:29] Francesca Moody: Um that uh well no, was it with a little bit of luck? Or maybe it was um hopelessly devoted to Kate Tempest's show, but anyway, just that opportunity to you know show more people like what it is and to not shy away from the fact that it's a piece of theatre, you know, as well.

[48:46] Francesca Moody: I think it's a really exciting time to be coming into the industry as well because you kind of know that it's not just gonna be a bunch of theatre productions in a pristine of March theatre, and that's the only way that you can consume that this art form.

[48:58] Francesca Moody: There's it's all over the place now, and that's it's it. It's wonderful to be able to see um theatre productions springing up in disused buildings and these immersive productions as well, and it's really as an art form, I feel like we're really going through a bit of a renaissance at the moment.

[49:16] Matt Humphrey: Definitely, yeah, yeah, I think so.

[49:18] Francesca Moody: And I I think there's you know, there's there's such a demand for that type of work, the kind of more immersive work like the punch drunk, the secret cinema, the you know the those you know, Alice's adventures in in Wonderland, like that they hid in the vaults, like all of that stuff is really you know, I think, yeah, with every show that you produce or every show that is on that people come and see, like even the ones that feel inherently more commercial or designed in those cases often to um to satisfy the kind of the need for the general public of like different experiences, yeah.

[49:54] Francesca Moody: Um like somebody might come and see that show and they might go, Oh, I didn't realise like this is what theatre could be like.

[50:01] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, sure.

[50:02] Francesca Moody: Absolutely amazing, and I had such a nice night with my friends, but maybe now I'll go and see a show at the you know at the Soho Theatre, yeah, you know.

[50:11] Francesca Moody: So I think that there's all of that stuff is playing its own part in um breaking down barriers to access, encouraging people to think about theatre in different ways, telling people that theatre is for them, inviting them in, and kind of you know, building building um audiences for the work, which is kind of you know underpins the entire sustainability of theatre, really, yeah, the theatre industry.

[50:36] Matt Humphrey: Amazing pitch for theatre there.

[50:37] Francesca Moody: Yeah, I know.

[50:38] Francesca Moody: I was quite impressed with myself when I said, Oh my god, I can't believe these words are coming out of my mouth.

[50:42] Matt Humphrey: Absolutely spot on.

[50:44] Francesca Moody: Um I'm gonna kind of round up with a couple of questions.

[50:48] Matt Humphrey: What is your what's your favourite moment in the life of a production?

[50:53] Francesca Moody: From first receiving the script to first night.

[50:57] Francesca Moody: Oh I think my favourite moment is probably opening night.

[51:05] Francesca Moody: Um the being able to see like my favourite thing is is seeing audiences' reactions to shows.

[51:16] Francesca Moody: Um so like in Edinburgh I used to love standing outside baby outside the uh roundabout um when people coming out of Baby Reindeer in Square going like hearing people talk about it.

[51:25] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, what a thrill.

[51:27] Francesca Moody: Yeah, so nice because you know at the end of the day we make work for audiences, and so it's so nice to you know hear what people really thought.

[51:33] Francesca Moody: Um but certainly yeah, I think opening night because I think opening night is a it's a it's an amazing climax to you know often you know anything from two, you know, anything from two years to you know six months worth of work, and it's um very satisfying like experience to kind of see that to you know, one of the great pleasures of my job is that there's uh there's something really tangible at the end of it, like there's a show on stage, and also there are people who are experiencing it, and you can see it's a lot of different things.

[52:02] Matt Humphrey: Well that is brilliant because typically you don't just have one opening night either, do you?

[52:06] Francesca Moody: Because you tend to go to another venue afterwards.

[52:08] Matt Humphrey: Exactly, exactly, yeah.

[52:09] Francesca Moody: Just keep on having them.

[52:09] Matt Humphrey: Love the opening nights, yeah.

[52:11] Francesca Moody: Of course, all the alcohol is all the free booze.

[52:14] Francesca Moody: It's not free, I'm paying for it usually, but you know drinks are on you.

[52:18] Matt Humphrey: Yeah.

[52:19] Francesca Moody: Um okay, so how how much do you use music in your productions?

[52:27] Francesca Moody: And is there because I know that you know, some people kind of always warm up to the same music track, or like if you could pick a warm-up track, what would it be?

[52:37] Francesca Moody: Oh god.

[52:39] Francesca Moody: Or is there a piece of music that you kind of always come back to and think?

[52:43] Francesca Moody: I think no, but I often find that that shows come uh that I often find for me that the shows often have a like a theme song.

[52:54] Francesca Moody: Yeah.

[52:55] Francesca Moody: You know?

[52:56] Francesca Moody: So that's often the one that I I find like I'll identify with the show or that will warm me up for the show, or um will be the one that I listen to and will always remind me of the show.

[53:06] Francesca Moody: So it really depends on it really depends on the show.

[53:09] Matt Humphrey: Yeah.

[53:10] Francesca Moody: I think like music plays a really big part in you know, music's so important for memory and um nostalgia and um yeah, so I think yeah, it's massively depends on the show, I have to say.

[53:21] Matt Humphrey: Yeah.

[53:22] Matt Humphrey: Well let's take let's take a couple of shows if you don't mind.

[53:25] Matt Humphrey: So uh Square Go.

[53:27] Francesca Moody: Oh Square Go, um is probably uh well the all the music for Square Go was originally composed by Frightened Rabbit.

[53:35] Matt Humphrey: That's kind of what I was thinking.

[53:37] Francesca Moody: Yeah, yeah.

[53:37] Francesca Moody: So um like any of any of the music from that show really, but there's a kind of theme um there's a there's a theme song um which is for a section of the show called The Seven Attributes of Being of Man, um, which is very good.

[53:53] Francesca Moody: But also I think the pre-show for that show is just so good.

[53:56] Francesca Moody: It's like like, you know, songs that are like designed to like gee up the uh the audience and they're not songs by Frightened Rabbit, they're like songs like Franz Ferdinand Take Me Out and Psycho Killer.

[54:09] Francesca Moody: But they those songs really remind me of that show and really get me energized and and actually just like energize me generally when I listen to them.

[54:17] Francesca Moody: Because one, they remind me about the show and the people that I've worked with and how much fun I always have when I'm watching that show.

[54:24] Francesca Moody: Uh and two, I mean, you know, they just get me up, basically.

[54:28] Matt Humphrey: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[54:29] Matt Humphrey: Uh, what about Baby Reindeer, your current baby?

[54:31] Francesca Moody: Oh, Baby Reindeer.

[54:33] Francesca Moody: Um, probably like The Pogues generally.

[54:36] Francesca Moody: Um in the pre-show.

[54:41] Francesca Moody: Um, I think um, yeah, it's hard with that one because uh music plays quite an important part in it, but it's all very subtle the way it's um.

[54:55] Matt Humphrey: I haven't seen it yet.

[54:56] Francesca Moody: I'm trying to see it.

[54:57] Francesca Moody: Oh yeah, well, you'll I won't say too much, then you'll have to see it.

[55:00] Matt Humphrey: I just have to come up with it.

[55:02] Francesca Moody: Perfect.

[55:03] Francesca Moody: Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with you.

[55:05] Francesca Moody: My pleasure, thank you.

[55:07] Francesca Moody: It's really nice to meet you, and it's really great to explore kind of how you've got to where you are and where you're going.

[55:13] Francesca Moody: So, yeah, thank you very much.

[55:14] Francesca Moody: Thanks very much for having me.

[55:15] Matt Humphrey: No worries.

[55:19] Matt Humphrey: Thank you for listening to the No Pressure Podcast.

[55:21] Matt Humphrey: Some very quick housekeeping.

[55:23] Matt Humphrey: You can follow us on at No Pressure Podcast at Curtain Call.

[55:28] Matt Humphrey: And you can follow Francesca at Francesca Moody Productions.

[55:34] Matt Humphrey: If this is your first listen and you like it, please rate and review on whichever service you're listening to this on.

[55:40] Matt Humphrey: And if you didn't like it, well, thanks for listening.

[55:43] Matt Humphrey: Um peace be with you.