This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:18] John Schwab: Hi, John Schwab here from Curtain Call, and welcome to a very special episode of the Curtain Call Podcast.

[0:24] John Schwab: Just a quick reminder that you can download and subscribe to our podcast from Apple Podcast App or from iTunes. That way your feed will be automatically updated when we release episodes, but you can also listen to us on many other podcast streaming services such as Stitcher, Google Play, iHeartRadio, Spotify, and many more.

[0:41] John Schwab: Please rate and review the podcast if you have a spare 30 seconds and help us reach more theater lovers out there around the globe. And now for this week's episode.

[1:06] John Schwab: Now, what started out as a campaign launched by the Professional Lighting and Sound Association to highlight the devastating impact of COVID-19 on the live events industry has grown into a global movement to keep the issues faced by those in the industries in the spotlight, both at government level and just across the general public. And let's face it, when we go to a concert, do you really think of the hundreds of people behind the scenes that make the event so special, or do we just rock out to our favorite bands? Well, after we are able to get back to festivals, the concerts, the theater productions, the gigs, let's face it, any type of live event, I think we will all need to take a pause and appreciate just how much goes into those productions and be grateful for the individuals who care so much about their industry that they love nothing more than to put other people center stage.

I chatted to Nikki Greet from PLASA, the Professional Lighting and Sound Association, Coi Neminathan from Avolites, and Gavin Eldridge, a freelance production manager, to talk about all things We Make Events, the genesis of the global movement, past, present and future events, and what the industry needs to sustain itself until we can all get back to belting our collective throats off at a live event in the future. Have a listen.

[2:35] ♪ Musical number: "We Make Events" — performed by Various Artists ♪

[2:49] Coi Neminathan: Yeah, thank you. My name's Coi Neminathan. I'm the sales director for Avolites Limited, so we manufacture stage lighting control for video and lighting. I've been there 20 years now, so quite a long time in the industry with one company. I'm also on the PLASA Governing Body Member Board as well. So I look after the manufacturers who are PLASA members. I've been doing that for just over a year, and that's pretty much how I got involved with this.

[3:18] Gavin Eldridge: And I'm Gavin Eldridge, I'm a freelance production manager. I am looking after the UK events side of things for We Make Events.

[3:28] Nikki Greet: My name is Nikki Greet. I'm the director of membership skills and technical for PLASA. We're an international trade association. We also have two industry magazines, Lighting and Sound International and Lighting and Sound America, and people will know about the trade shows that we run. So obviously they've all been deeply impacted by recent events.

[4:01] Nikki Greet: Fantastic. Thanks so much, guys, for joining me today. And I'd like to dive straight into the question about what was the genesis of We Make Events, what kicked this all off.

[4:10] Nikki Greet: Yeah, maybe if I could answer that particular one. Essentially, obviously, with what happened in March 2020, as a trade association, this is a time that you're needed more than any other time, I guess. And so we held many meetings with our members to find out what we should do or what we can do. Obviously, we were lobbying, speaking to government, etc. And it just felt like there wasn't anything coming back. And we realized that actually our industry is invisible because that's what we do best, is be behind the scenes. We thought, well, there's a piece of work here in how do we raise awareness to governments and also to the public that we exist. And Coi was actually involved in those very early meetings.

And so we decided let's start a campaign. Let's call it We Make Events because that's what we all do, and let's include everybody in that. So the whole industry, because it is a very much a symbiotic relationship. Everybody needs everybody in this industry. So that was back in March, April 2020. So we developed the logo, the name, and the campaign, and we kicked it off with a video to actually try to educate people that this industry exists, and actually it's a huge supply chain that exists in live events.

[5:46] Coi Neminathan: Yeah, it was fantastic because it all came together really quickly and nicely. The individuals who participated in the original video came from a different and diverse background. So we had manufacturers like myself and James Gordon from Digico. There was Andy Doherty, a leading rental company in the UK. So it was great to get everyone's thoughts and feelings about the industry and how we were affected as a result of the problems that we were facing. So it was quite small, and we never sort of expected it to have grown as quickly as it has. So it was a great starting point for us.

[6:32] Coi Neminathan: And I think just to say we were very conscious that there is a huge freelance community as well. And although typically it's not our representation, we do a lot of products, particularly certifications for freelancers, but that aside, the industry, the companies need freelancers and the freelancers need the companies. So obviously, that was kind of why we wanted to make it quite inclusive, and I think in the video, the initial one you will see that as well. So, all representations going on. And then what we decided to also hire a PR company to try to get more press presence so that again we could educate the public and educate governments that we exist. So those two things hand in hand with the campaign were where we were starting from, and as time went on, I think not very much time, but it was kind of considered that we needed to do a bit more than that, that it wasn't enough just to have videos. It was great, but it wasn't going to be enough.

[7:33] Nikki Greet: So at the same time there was another movement or actually a couple of guys who did an amazing job of getting a number of buildings to light it red in July. Okay, so that's how that started. In fact, it started in Germany, but these guys took it on and delivered it in the UK and did a fantastic job. We thought, well, why don't we do something with that as well and have another day or an event? And at that time there were many ideas coming in, and we got introduced to Gary White, who is a production manager. I think the rest is history because to have Gary White as a driver in the driving seat, I think We Make Events are really fortunate because you can see him, he is thriving and growing this and driving it along with Gavin, making sure everyone knows what they're doing, and I think that has helped grow the audience, not just the audience, but the members helping to make We Make Events.

[8:37] Gavin Eldridge: Yeah, I would say absolutely. It certainly changed everything because we suddenly had an event that we were running, although we were calling it a creative activation. Gavin will talk a bit more about the event, but I think that people in this industry, that's what they're missing. They love to make something happen.

[8:57] Nikki Greet: Yeah, and what Gary did was sort of bring in some really amazing ideas and concepts that everybody got behind, and I think the energy of all the people involved in that, particularly that nobody was getting paid, everyone was doing this voluntarily, was quite amazing. And actually, we also had 21 trade association bodies, forums involved as well. So it was kind of uniting the industry in that sense, and Gary has become a kind of a psychological leader, if you like, for people, and I think his philosophy is very much about giving people empowering them to have something to do. If they want to get involved, they have something they can get involved with. And that's certainly one of the philosophies of We Make Events. It's very inclusive. Everything is open, and I think John, you might have experienced that it's not all secret or whatever. We're very open to getting involved with people or other ideas.

[10:00] Gavin Eldridge: Can I lead the witness as well when you talk about that event? At what point did that become a global event?

[10:06] Gavin Eldridge: Yeah, so well, the 11th of August. When I got brought in, it was Gary that called me. Actually, you said about him being a driving force, he called me and got me involved. And actually, coming back to how did it grow, I think that's actually a big point of how it grew is how the network worked. You know, we might be a business, we might be an industry, but actually everybody in that is like a large extended family, and everybody's called their friends and their people, and got them involved. So that happened on the lead up to the 11th. I got a phone call from Gary, I think two weeks before that, as to how I can get involved. The 11th at that point was some sort of concept about a convoy that very quickly changed as the direction of the group became clear.

We realized that we didn't want to be inconveniencing people or upsetting anybody. We wanted to be helping raise awareness, but also getting people on our side. So it very quickly changed to something on the Thames with as much of the light it in red as we could across the country. We actually achieved, I believe, 725 venues and buildings across the country on the new August scale, which is a massive number, which is brilliant. The light it in red team did a really good job there.

[11:20] Gavin Eldridge: But then this project on the Thames started to take shape, and Gary had a team of people working on that. But we put a call out to who else around the country might want to do something similar. Here's what's happening on the Thames. How could you get involved? The first call we had with the regions was one week before. So the regions only had one week to put things together. My gosh. And teams just put their hand up, they just they're keen to get involved, they really wanted to get involved. And the fact that what they turned around and achieved within that week is a true testament to the industry, the people within it, the professionals. And we had, I think it was 17 events across the country, which just a few then, Gavin.

[11:59] Gavin Eldridge: Yeah, just a few, just a few, and they were um they were all uh fairly autonomous, really. But coming back to us as a central team to help with them with content and back to the PR team to help with the publicity, and as you said, the publicity was amazing, really. I think it was outstanding as to what we actually managed to get on the 10 o'clock news uh in the UK and uh and publications around the world. I I do have a question that I kind of want to carry on from that because that event really brought forth a sense of community, but also also I think more importantly, and uh Nikki, you you alluded to this, was that people the suppliers and and the and the technicians are the invisible um people that make these events happen, but it was such a visible event to the public. People stopped and watched you light up the Thames.

[12:47] Nikki Greet: Yeah, and and carrying on from that as well, people you know, the Empire State Building was lit in red, wasn't it?

[12:52] Gavin Eldridge: Yeah, a few weeks later, which is probably insane. I mean, how how did that come about? I came on board uh right from the beginning, as I mentioned earlier, and as we sort of split into our working groups, um, the working groups covered everything from you know politics to marketing, social media. Uh, there was also a need for uh an international wing. Um, as we knew that there were other countries who were very, very interested and and um wanted to get on board. Uh America were you know one of the first who who came on board and uh Marcel Fairbairn, he from Gearsource, he was the one that said, right, okay, let's take that let's really take the bull by the horns and move this forward. Now, obviously, every country uh has its own legal processes which are different to ours.

[13:41] Nikki Greet: So we never got involved in that side, but what we did get involved was ensuring that the information that we were sharing were all aligned. So whatever they wanted to do, and you know, they they lit you know thousands of buildings in in red in the lighted red campaign, which was fantastic.

[13:57] Gavin Eldridge: Yeah, but they held their event on the first of September, and again, they rallied uh up support uh from not only uh you know prestigious venues around the country, but also from artists uh which you know they got on board as well. Uh Alice Cooper, Jack Black, uh there was a number of real sort of A listers in that. But I think what they wanted to do was ensure that you know there was one global campaign, and We Make Events was that one that they that they came across to.

[14:27] Nikki Greet: Can you guys take me through how you thought of the next thing to do?

[14:31] Gavin Eldridge: Yeah. The next creative thing, the next thing that was going to raise awareness. And it goes beyond the 30th, which we'll get to. But but what was the genesis of the September 30th Global Day of Action?

[14:42] Nikki Greet: I th I think it was interesting actually, John, because we were all like got to the 11th, and we had the 11th, and then after that it was like, okay, um, we need to relook at this and decide what it what are we going to do next because there's a huge responsibility to all the people out there as well. Um, you only have to look at some of the uh um comments that were being made while the activities were going on online live, it was very emotional from all around the world, you know, to see how people are suffering everywhere. Um, so it was a big responsibility. And at that point, we we decided that actually um it up until then it was kind of plaza that was sort of managing this, and then we decided that actually it would be really good for this to become a completely holistically industry-wide campaign.

[15:26] Gavin Eldridge: And so we had a big change at that point. Um, and we also realized that we were probably going to be this in uh in for the long term, or certainly a little longer than we might have hoped to be in. So that was the point that we um decided that okay, so we need to make this a proper operation, and I'm not kidding when it, you know, if you actually, look at the organizational diagram now, we look like a corporation, yeah, but we're all volunteers, and it's amazing.

[15:52] Nikki Greet: And it's actually uh it I think there were it's fair to say there were a few weeks where it was just settling in, you know, everyone was getting into where what groups they were going to work in. Some people stayed, some people didn't, they moved groups, but ultimately it's been an amazing experience to be honest to see something like that, which now exists with a very nice structure where people all know more or less what they're doing, where people have bonded through this in different you know parts, and actually we are now we've gone through kind of like the forming storming stages, and we're now in the performing stages, and that and and you know, going back to Tuckman's stuff.

[16:28] Gavin Eldridge: But um, it's true. So I think um it came out a lot from the uh ideas from the regions, actually.

[16:35] Nikki Greet: Yeah, so we we uh we sat down with the regions with Gary and with a with a couple of key people that that uh we thought would be the right people to have in a bit of a creative meeting to decide what was next from uh an activation point of view, and we came up with a a bit of a plan of uh of what we thought that at the center of it all, it was all about representing the people, the venues and the and the companies within the industry.

[16:57] Gavin Eldridge: So the whole supply chain that's involved in what we do. Um so again, creative action, it was uh about having some sort of display that uh would represent those those elements of the supply chain.

[17:10] Nikki Greet: Um, who is obviously light it in reds was going to be the backdrop again. Um and then a couple of really nice key standout pieces came, which was um one of which was inside out, which was to take venues, take footage or or photos of things that had happened inside that venue and project it onto the outside.

[17:27] Gavin Eldridge: So people can't go in, but they can they can look at that and realize what it is that we normally do that we normally help them with and that they're missing currently, and potentially for a lot longer still. So that was a nice one, but also the the shiner light element really, I think has become its own little project within within this day on the 30th which uh is about uh intensely bright shafts of white lights just pointing directly upwards into the sky and each one of those is going to represent 10 000 uh people that the jobs are at risk by the situation so we're in the UK we're gonna have 60 of those um representing 600 000 people that uh that that are struggling currently I know there's something um happening as this this podcast uh airs uh on the 29th there's uh something in in Parliament square is that right yeah so so there's actually um on on Friday there was uh an activation in Custom House Square in Belfast where uh the team over there had uh a socially distanced and silent protest and they had a a great turnout and it was brilliant to see the professionalism of uh of everybody that came along for some some photographs there then in the on the 29th we've got uh parliament square in London will have a a half an hour silent protest um and the team that were behind the Manchester flight case push on the 11th uh are behind that activation so there'll be people gathering two meter distances uh around or in parliament square and uh possibly in areas around there as well and what's not going to be so silent are the people that are riding bicycles all over the country um that is the next one of the next events to take place we're gonna have a whole other podcast series with these guys but could someone briefly tell me what they're what they're gonna be up to over the next few weeks yeah they're they're amazing and I think the first thing to say is they actually came to us uh and said they had this idea.

[19:18] Nikki Greet: So it's um five guys and and they've got a driver as well, and they just wanted to do something to raise awareness of the plight of the industry. And so um what they're doing is they're they're cycling around the whole of England and they're going to be passing venues for entertainment that aren't being used at the moment.

[19:39] Gavin Eldridge: And then they have different stopovers on the way round all around the country, and it's been quite inspiring actually. Um that that was a principle of what they wanted to do.

[19:49] Nikki Greet: And so they came to us and said, you know, would we get behind it and and perhaps support some of the logistical side, or how could we help them or help the cause, if you like, for getting attention from this.

[20:02] Gavin Eldridge: And I think it's fair to say it's come at a really nice time because it's something for people to relate to because it's it's something physical, you know, that you can that you can do that's slightly different.

[20:14] Nikki Greet: And of course, we're very aware that you know there is a um mental health at the moment in the industry for a lot of people, it's it's very difficult, it's devastating. People are losing their their homes, um, they have families, um, and they haven't had income since um March 2020. And this is this is real stuff, so it's you know very, very important.

[20:35] Gavin Eldridge: And we kind of got behind it, and and then the next phase, if you like, of the campaign became known as the survival tour, and um it kicks off on the third of October.

[20:46] Nikki Greet: Yeah, so yeah, they they kick off on the 3rd of October, and um I think they're gonna have some amazing stories themselves to tell from their own experiences of what they they have done as well.

[20:57] Gavin Eldridge: So there'll be stop-off points for press, etc. to help us maximize you know uh what we're doing and help educate again the the the public and obviously governments as well.

[21:09] Nikki Greet: I think it's also really good that what whilst we on the 11th of August, we gave the people of the industry uh an opportunity to to to come and join in and to be part of it and and to build up that sense of purpose again and that sense of belonging in the industry and actually a lot of people that are involved in doing things on the 30th have said they turned up on the 11th and that inspired them to go back to their city and say we need to do something we need to be part of it as well now this this bike tour then takes that to another level these these five guys are riding their bikes and they're calling for other people to join in for a leg um or to donate the miles that they're doing or whether that's walking swimming or do a to an overall tally in a toe fly they're also doing this for for sponsorship they're also doing this for fundraising so as as part of we make events we have the the fundraising page which is a raisley page available through the we make events.com website um and the merchandise so they're going to be promoting both the merchandise but also topping up that that fund that we've got going on to deliver to industry amazing I will put all of the links in the show notes for this episode and and continue to push that out as well and I mean maybe maybe I'll come up with a creative way of of um sponsoring it myself maybe I'll I'll donate like a pound for every uh pound that they lose on the door I'll I'll figure something out uh but I'll be I'll be talking to the guys as they make their way around Britain I think it's a fantastic story and and really look forward to that.

[22:35] Gavin Eldridge: And now indulge us for a little sponsor break.

[22:39] Nikki Greet: Welcome back to the Curtain Call podcast with a trio of organizers from we make events. I would like to kind of move on to the business side of things, if that's okay, guys.

[22:49] Gavin Eldridge: Uh, we make events has come up with a series of asks for the government.

[22:53] Nikki Greet: And I think that it's important to highlight those asks so that people, the general public, can ask those same questions on your behalf as well, to their to their MPs or whatever, whatever they can do to support.

[23:03] Gavin Eldridge: So what what would those asks be?

[23:06] Nikki Greet: Yeah, well, there are there are five asks um that we've we've put forward. The first one is for the government uh to provide some kind of insurance to give us the confidence, you know, for the promoters for the venues to actually put on a show. Because as you can imagine, if you put on a concert and we have an outbreak of COVID or something happens that it has to be cancelled, then there's a big risk in that.

[23:28] Gavin Eldridge: So we have to test this to see how it how it can work.

[23:31] Nikki Greet: And so we need the government to help with some kind of government-backed insurance scheme to support this, because you can't get insurance to put on events uh around COVID at the moment.

[23:43] Gavin Eldridge: Understood, yeah.

[23:44] Nikki Greet: So um the second one is to get support from the government for testing event attendees so that that gives people confidence, yeah?

[23:52] Nikki Greet: So that they can go back. So to help us to support that, we're all for going back to work. We just need to go back in a way that is viable for people to get paid and for it to be safe and COVID compliant. I mean, we are a really safe industry. So, you know, that's really important. And then another way to kind of encourage people to come back is for a three-year extension on kind of reduced cultural VAT, so that the tickets are a little bit cheaper, so people will come back in that sense as well, and anything else around VAT. If we can't or why we can't go back, and I think it's really important to say this, you know, from the public point of view, it seems very clear that, oh, but theaters are open, or perhaps you can do a show or you can do an event.

The issue is around the viability of that event because the capacity required to make sure everybody that's involved. I think in one concert alone, there's something like 456 people behind that. Wow, you know, that's a lot of people certainly on the big tours. So, you know, clearly we need to have to be clear that it needs to be viable, there needs to be capacity, and with social distancing in many venues, we cannot get to that capacity to make it viable. So people lose money. Consequently, one of our asks is that companies need grants, not loans, because loans just add to the debt, and what they need is grants to keep them going. I think it's fair to say, you know, we are an industry that is a business, it's a massive business, and a huge part of the industry, you know, has never had a grant from the government, you know, actually brings money into the UK economy and the global economy.

Absolutely. You know, we're talking UK manufacturers, production companies, all the rest. It's a huge, huge business, and so you know it's really important that the government invests in these businesses so that they can actually keep afloat, you know, they can continue to pay their mortgages, just their running costs really to keep them going. And if they don't exist, any form of support for employees is redundant because they have to exist, so that's quite important.

[26:18] Gavin Eldridge: And also we're asking for a specific job support scheme for the live events supply industry, because what's been offered isn't really good enough, you know, an employer will still have to find 55% overall to keep somebody in their job. And as many have had no income since March 2020, you can imagine, you know, that's a big ask, a big ask. And also from the freelancer's point of view, whether they be any type of freelancer, in other words, if they're excluded, because some people have been excluded if they started their company after 2018. There's a lot of people with various different things going on there, so they also need to be included in a better support scheme than they've been offered at the moment because it's all slightly different.

[27:12] Nikki Greet: And I'd like to because Gavin, you've got a really good angle on the companies, haven't you, on this new job support scheme?

[27:20] Gavin Eldridge: Well, yeah, so I'm a limited company freelancer, effectively. So for me this means that the government is pretty much going to give me enough money to be able to pay them tax. And that's it. They're giving me the money to give them back directly. I have to find all the money apart from 22%. That's what they will give me. And that would be my income tax to give them back, pretty much.

[27:47] Nikki Greet: Well, I think it's within the government's interest to kind of keep this going, because you know, their next party conference is gonna be very dark and very quiet without the industries that have made it such a good thing up to this point. I think, John, if I could just add that if you, one of our companies, if you like, that was interviewed recently, and he was saying that you know his company turned over something like four million normally in a normal year, and he's only turned over 8,000 pounds this year. So I think if that gives you an idea of the scale of what's happening across the board, you know, that's a reality.

[28:29] Koy Neminathan: Coy, perhaps I can bring you back in and ask you how do people get involved with We Make Events and both on the professional side but also on the public side to support because it is vitally important that the public get involved.

[28:44] Koy Neminathan: Before I do that, John, what I'd like to just say is the global day now has 27 countries in.

[28:52] Nikki Greet: Amazing.

[28:52] Koy Neminathan: So yeah, it is amazing. We've, you know, it's only been six weeks since the and you know, we've got it's an amazing number to have so we which is really really good. And you know what the lovely thing is is we can actually become a voice for many countries that don't have associations or trade bodies who represent them. You know, we are now helping them or helping those individuals have a voice, you know, what they need is information, they need assistance, and being part of this global brand, and really it is a campaign from the beginning is now turned into this organization. We have countries from Bangladesh to the Faroe Islands, you know, New Zealand to America. We've got all of these individuals who are really, really trying to tell the public, because we all know and recognize that the government listen to the public. If we get the public understanding what we do and what we're suffering, then we've got a chance of the government actually reacting and doing something positive for our industry.

[30:01] Nikki Greet: And I would say on the day itself, the activities are going to stimulate emotion. It's going to stimulate thoughts and memories from the public. Gavin described the inside out projection of shows. So we're hoping that individuals will go, yes, I do remember that show. I remember that was a brilliant show. I went with my girlfriend, I went with my partner. It's going to be something which is really going to stand out. And the beams of light, again, you know, what we would love to see is how many beams of white light that represents all these individuals out of jobs in our industry is going to be lit around across the world, you know, from South America to the Middle East. It's again, you know, a clear example of how we're coming together. You know, we are standing for our colleagues, our friends, even our competitors around the world. You know, we stand together, and that's really, really important.

[30:50] Koy Neminathan: So I would really focus on the activities of the day is really gonna allow people to understand more because you know, from the 11th, we had individuals going, well why are you wearing red and what's happening? But this is still a fraction of the public that we need to educate. And so the 30th, again, is saying, Hey, you know, we tour, we travel around the world, we attend exhibitions, you know, from in China, we try we tour in North America, but what we will do is show that this is not just a UK centric problem, this is a global problem, and the money that this industry generates contributes to every single country around the world, and that's what we're gonna be doing.

[31:33] Koy Neminathan: Lastly, where can people follow We Make Events and the events that are happening around not only the UK but globally?

[31:43] Nikki Greet: They can go to the website wemakeevents.com. Everything is on there, and also we've got obviously We Make Events is also on all the usual socials, you know, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc. But if they go to the website, they will get that information and share the hashtag We Make Events. Share the hashtag, they can share a picture with We Make Events, you know.

[32:07] Koy Neminathan: Yeah, we say anything, you know. You went your last festival you went to, whatever it might be, just you know, make it personal to you. You know, there are some ideas on what you could do, but it's really about we're just trying to get that awareness so that we can create the change so people realize as well that you know if this industry does collapse, they won't be able to have the same experiences, which indeed the public add to with their energy as well. And they're part of, of course.

[32:35] Gavin Eldridge: Yeah, and for them, their memories, etc. So I think it's around that as well. And I think just to add to what Koy said so eloquently, I think it's so important this unity, especially at the moment that our industry, as Koy said, we all know each other, and it's that connection and hence the name Stand as One, which is what the global day is all about.

[32:56] John Schwab: I would like to thank Koy, Nikki, and Gavin for joining me today and highlighting what is an incredible movement that started out, as I say, as a small mustard seed, but has grown into a forest of trees, and I'm sure it's gonna get even bigger as we go on with the We Make Events team. Thank you so much for joining me today, guys, and I look forward to catching up with you on future events.

[33:20] Koy Neminathan: Thank you.

[33:21] Gavin Eldridge: Thank you.

[33:21] Nikki Greet: Thanks.

[33:23] John Schwab: When you feel like you've got nothing left, hold on to your hope is better days ahead.

[33:32] John Schwab: Koy Neminathan, Gavin Eldridge, and Nikki Greet of We Make Events there. Now, before I go, just a few housekeeping bits. You can follow us on all the socials Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at Curtain Call, and follow me personally at John Schwab. That's J O H N S C H W A B. We'd love to hear from you if you have any suggestions or feedback for the podcast. Get in touch with us via any of the social media platforms I just mentioned, or write to me personally at John at CurtainCallOnline.com. It just leaves me to say a huge, huge thank you to the entire We Make Events team. Scores of live events pros that are giving up their time completely unpaid to make sure that there is an industry to return to for the 600,000 professionals that are in dire need of support, and that you, the absolute millions and millions and millions of concertgoers, festival goers, event goers, rave goers, outdoor extravaganzas, the Olympics people, the Olympics.

There are things for you to go back and enjoy when we are desperately going to need to. Go to WeMakeEvents.com to find out more. You'll find links to their Just Giving page as well as the links to the survival tour that's mentioned, that bite tour. You're gonna want to follow that. Information on upcoming events and how you can get involved. But how about this? There's also merch, guys, merch. Go buy some merch for the website to help support the cause. I have my t-shirt and I have my polo shirt. Get yours to give help. Lastly, the song you're hearing is by Joe Bygraves. It's called Stand as One, which is the theme of the campaign. And if you go to iTunes and purchase the song, I think it's 25% of the song's proceeds will go to supporting this cause. Thank you to Sure Microphones for sponsoring this episode, and thank you for listening to the Curtain Call Podcast.

[35:25] John Schwab: Bye.