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[0:09] John Schwab: Hi, John Schwab here from Curtain Call, and welcome to Take Your Bow, a new bite-sized podcast series from the Curtain Call stable that shines a spotlight on the people that make theater happen.

[0:19] John Schwab: In today's climate of increasing isolation, we want to bring you a big old dose of inspiration.

[0:24] John Schwab: In each episode, we're bringing someone in the theater along to take their bow.

[0:29] John Schwab: From seasoned professionals to drama students, from vocal coaches to life coaches, you'll find them right here giving insights into what drives them to be in the business and who inspires them.

[0:38] John Schwab: This week we're bringing you the creatives behind the Curtain Call virtual play reading series, The Remote Read.

[0:44] John Schwab: We're beginning the series on Saturday, May 2nd, with a remote reading of Sir Tom Stoppard's play A Separate Peace, starring David Morrissey, Jenna Coleman, Denise Gough, Ed Stoppard, and Maggie Service.

[0:56] John Schwab: It's directed by award-winning stage and screen director Sam Yates, and the reading will benefit the Felix Project and those professionals who have found themselves out of work during the COVID-19 epidemic.

[1:07] John Schwab: On today's episode is director Sam Yates.

[1:10] John Schwab: Sam is an absolutely exciting young director working on stage and screen.

[1:15] John Schwab: He was voted one of Screen International's Stars of Tomorrow in 2016 and named a rising star in The Observer here in the UK.

[1:22] John Schwab: His productions have been Olivier nominated and all the rest.

[1:25] John Schwab: We at Curtain Call are so grateful to Platform Presents co-producers Gala Gordon and Isabella Macpherson for suggesting Sam in the first place and then going out and getting him.

[1:34] John Schwab: He's a phenomenal person to work with and is exactly the right captain to steer this ship.

[1:41] John Schwab: Here's Sam telling us how he's getting on with what it's like directing a virtual production as opposed to a physical production.

[1:55] Sam Yates: Hi, I'm Sam Yates and I'm a director. See, simple questions, simple answers. I love it.

[2:02] John Schwab: So Sam, when did you know that directing, because you direct theater, you direct film, television, you know, when did you know that directing was what you wanted to be as your professional title?

[2:18] Sam Yates: Well, I began as an actor at school doing drama. And thank God we had drama because it's dying out in many comprehensive schools. And I loved it then and I carried on through university. I started to do a bit of directing at university, but then I came out of university and really wanted to be an actor and I actually understudied in The History Boys for the National. So which was amazing, amazing seeing Nick Hytner at work. And we with the second cast we took the play around the country and then back to the National, so that was an incredible kind of induction. And then I did an episode of Heartbeat which I'm extremely proud of, which I haven't watched since, but I vowed to torture myself and do that one day maybe when I'm older.

And so basically at that point I felt that I just wasn't very good as an actor and also I couldn't concentrate properly basically when I was doing it. I was very outside myself, which is something I don't personally think you can be. And so I guess I was kind of early twenties and I started to scratch around and see what I could do and wrote to Phyllida Lloyd who gave me my first opportunity and thankfully I was introduced to Philida through my drama teacher Becky Patterson, who happened to sit with her at a wedding and did the glorious job of selling me. So I got my first foot in the door with Philida via my school drama teacher. I love how life works, Sam.

[3:49] John Schwab: Isn't it incredible? And when people, you know, there is a death I totally believe in in destiny, not necessarily fate, but destiny is a fascinating concept to me because I think we'll all get to where we're meant to be, and it's just listening to stories like yours is incredible how well destiny, I don't know. There's probably not enough time to talk about destiny.

[4:09] Sam Yates: It comes and goes, you know. I think like I think you have to be very, very active in your own destiny.

[4:16] John Schwab: Well, yes, you can choose exactly okay. Well, yeah, well that's for another podcast. So you mentioned a few names there. Who inspired you then when you were just starting out on this career, and who inspires you now?

[4:31] Sam Yates: Well, my first inspirations were all actors and directors of film. So it was the obvious, the kind of Al Pacino, De Niro, then so it was Francis Ford Coppola, Martin Scorsese, and sort of European cinema, so the Three Colours trilogy were a kind of big thing for me. And before that, when I was like seven, eight, nine, Disney, massive, massive kind of emotional responses to those films. And so yeah, it was films really. I was just a kind of film nut, and so those are the posters. And then I think now, I mean there are many people who inspire me for sure in the theatre industry. I mean, Philida Lloyd being one of them, you know. I've been really lucky. I mean, I've worked with some incredible directors as an assistant or associate.

They are all inspiring people. My God, everyone works so hard and all so different. So and then coming full circle to now. I mean, as I'm kind of back slightly with my head in the film world at this current moment, I mean, there's too many to name, but you know, there's the Andrea Arnolds, there's Paul Thomas Anderson, there's...

[5:27] John Schwab: These are all storytellers, Sam. Like they're really amazing storytellers, but everyone you just mentioned thinks outside the box, both directors then and in theatre and filmmakers. Is that something that is just kind of float your boat?

[5:55] Sam Yates: Well, I think it's really only in hindsight that you can kind of understand what you've been doing sometimes. And if I look back, I'm kind of surprised sometimes when I go, okay, wow. So I've worked in all of these different areas. Now that worried me for a while because I thought, well, does this just mean that you're kind of diluting the cordial too much? But actually I'm really excited about that now because they are genuinely all talking to each other as forms, and look, put it this way, I've never been attached to a theatre. I've never taken a salary from a theatre, I've always been freelance, and that is not by choice, that's just sort of what's happened. I would have loved to have had an associateship or some kind of home for a while to make work.

It hasn't happened. So what happens when you know you're flying a bit solo is you just have to get really, really active. So I've taken a sort of producing role in many of the things I've done on stage and film and radio, there's something else I'm planning at the moment, and it makes you produce oral, which is no bad thing, but I also do like to very much put that completely away. And the opposite end of the spectrum for me in that is writing.

[7:13] John Schwab: What do your family think of your job, Sam?

[7:16] Sam Yates: I think you'd have to ask them. I think no, look, I think they're really, really proud. But you know, they were often mentioned teaching as an alternative career for many, many years. And I because I did some sort of I went back to my old school quite a bit, did drama teaching, I did some teaching abroad in Hong Kong, and I really love it and my God do teachers work hard. So it wasn't out of the blue that suggestion, but you know, it was straight, you know, no one in the family had done it before. You know, it all from the outside, obviously, it's perceived as a very risky career with low financial returns, which I can confirm is true. But so they're super proud, and I think at the beginning they had one eye on another career for me.

[8:03] John Schwab: You are obviously a multi-skilled, you talk about writing, producing, directing. How important do you think that having, you know, being a multi-hyphenate as the new word is important in today's modern world?

[8:15] Sam Yates: It not just in necessarily the creative arts, but just as a person out there in when people kind of put you in a box, they love to put you in a box, but well, it's a really interesting question. Actually, it's very much on my mind at the moment. I found that this is a huge generalization, but I found that in England or the UK or Britain, I perceived an attitude of stay in your lane. People don't really like to consider you doing anything else, or they can't consider it, and they think, well, if you're doing that as well, you can't be good at the first thing.

[8:46] John Schwab: It's true, Sam. I'll just jump in there. When I produced my first feature film, it took me a year and a half to get back into acting because everybody thought, oh, John's producing now.

[8:56] Sam Yates: Right, right, right, right. And also, I think, you know, there's a degree of threat. I think people who do those jobs, I've definitely rattled some cages before by accident, where I've sort of had an opinion on how something should be done and that maybe it was perceived I shouldn't have had, but unfortunately if you're guiding something through as a director then I believe that you have to have a small input into those areas. I think it's important to a point, but I think it's very important to be able to put it down. But just coming full circle, I've done some work in America recently. I was in New York, I had the great pleasure of being there for five weeks with a show called Incantado that I made with Stanley Townsend and Galway International Arts Festival in Jen Coppinger, and we were at the Irish Rep.

I've got representation over there and the feeling of presenting something there and it could just be specific to me is one of much more freedom and energy. And I don't know whether that's something to do with the sort of fabric of the country, but you're encouraged to fly there where I've found slight people at the wings here saying, well wait a minute, are you sure you should be doing that?

[10:04] John Schwab: In Ireland they call that notions.

[10:06] Sam Yates: Right. You know, so I actually think that you know notions of grandeur or whatever notions above your station. I wonder if every country in the world has some kind of version of this. I kind of get back in your box, who do you think you are?

[10:12] John Schwab: I'm sure you're right, Sam. I'm gonna ask you a crazy question because I know how you're spending your days because I think we're, you know, Matt and I are taking up an inordinate amount of time in your last couple weeks, but how are you spending your days these days?

[10:38] Sam Yates: Yeah, I mean, well, specifically, you know, at the moment, as you say, we're collaborating on a really super exciting project together, which is an online reading or online production of a Tom Stoppard play called A Separate Peace. So we are on Zoom all day, pretty much from 9 a.m. till about 7 or 8 p.m. it was last night. So that's a combination of rehearsing with our wonderful company of actors and technical team, and talking producorially about the presentation and point of sale and all of the practical information around it.

[11:10] Sam Yates: I mean, aside from this, I'm prepping for a first feature, which is huge exciting. I'm doing a lot of Zoom meetings with actors I haven't met before, dozens and dozens, many of whom are in America, and it's enormously exciting, and actually, you know, I was very kind of cynical about Zoom because I'm such a kind of maniac for the human contact, as I think many people in the world are, and certainly in our industry, and yeah, I actually think under these circumstances it's an incredible facility for connection, and I have formed some really exciting, genuine connections with people over Zoom, which I wouldn't have thought possible.

[11:55] Sam Yates: And I mean I have to say that you're finding things and asking questions of that service that I don't think anybody else has. You're kind of thinking, and I think it takes somebody like a creative, especially a theater creative where you work with what you've got and say, how do we make this production as absolutely theatrical as possible? And how can we push this service in this technical application to its limit? And I think, I mean, we are those of us behind the scenes, the producers and the production technicians and everyone on the team, you know, came off the rehearsal yesterday, and we just filled with joy at what we were achieving.

[12:39] Sam Yates: And I mean, how can I, if I can ask you straight away how or if I can ask you a straight question of how different is your approach to this as it would be to a normal theatre production? Um, the technical side of this is sort of front and centre, because everyone is in their own home in their kitchen, lounge, whatever. We've taken them through a setup of a computer with specific settings, we've sent a microphone in, a ring light, there has to be a background which you know is either green screen led or not. But so the tech really had to come first because in a way, before that's in place, it's very difficult, certainly for me to see and for the actors to see what this can be as a form.

[13:29] Sam Yates: What's exciting is when you see the kind of like, I don't know whether you'd call it semiotics or like the kind of the symbols and the kind of let's say presumptuously the poetry of what of the visual and the sound all together that you actually see a bit no synergy is the word, there we go. It's the synergy of all of those things. Sometimes at moments kicks, and you go, okay, that's what it is. That's how it can be a piece of performance rather than just people stood in the lounge reading a play. And there have been many of those from, for my taste, they're too casual, and I actually find them unnerving because I think if you can see someone's home behind them, yeah, and the script in a hand, and it feels undercooked, then it makes me feel awkward because I think it's quite a vulnerable spot to be put in. Uh yeah, and also you, everyone's looking at what's behind you, unfortunately, in a very nosy parker kind of way.

[14:26] Sam Yates: Um, so the difference being that the obvious similarities are we have a production team, we have producers, we have a wonderful group of actors who are as always, as actors are courageous, brave, daring, easy going with their talents, which are great and strong, and they're also being incredibly creative within that form. They are also adapting, going, okay, what if I come on like this, or what if I appear like this, or how do I get off stage? You know, how is it if I'm at a sort of distant shot rather than a very close shot, etc.? What's my level on the mic? So immediately everyone's adapting, it's really really exciting.

[15:05] Sam Yates: Excellent. Um, I'm gonna take you to a cast album thing. I don't know if you're a fan of musicals or not, but um, I'm asking everybody the same questions, like I said at the beginning. If you were to self-isolate with one cast album only and had to throw everyone else out, what would that be?

[15:24] Sam Yates: Oh god. Um, it would be a Sondheim, I think, and it would probably be Company.

[15:31] Sam Yates: Oh, that's great. That's a very good answer. It's a fascinating question because they're all different. Uh, we've had a couple of lay misses, which is a bit heavy for me at this time. Um, I'm just saying, I'm not judging, but just saying. The cool thing about, I mean, it's such a wonderful piece, but you know, it's very, you know, the kind of questioning and ambivalence around relationship, not a relationship, what that all means I find very interesting, and I suppose that the good thing about that is by the end of the music, at least you get Being Alive, which has some sense of release, relief, and understanding, even if it's just for one song.

[16:10] John Schwab: Well said, sir. Well said. Okay, we're gonna do a couple of ten quick fire questions. It'll take a minute. There's no wrong answers here, Sam.

[16:17] Sam Yates: Oh god almighty. Okay, shall we start?

[16:21] John Schwab: Movies or theater?

[16:23] Sam Yates: Movies at the moment.

[16:25] John Schwab: Okay, Twitter or Instagram?

[16:27] Sam Yates: Instagram.

[16:28] John Schwab: Oh, this one, Tom Stoppard or William Shakespeare?

[16:31] Sam Yates: Oh god, Tom Stoppard, of course.

[16:33] John Schwab: It's really hard because I've I started this before we knew what we were doing. Broadway or West End?

[16:41] Sam Yates: Oh god, it's impossible.

[16:41] John Schwab: Oh West End.

[16:45] John Schwab: Clotted cream or jam first?

[16:48] Sam Yates: Oh, jam, definitely.

[16:49] John Schwab: Netflix or Amazon Prime?

[16:53] Sam Yates: Oh god. Netflix.

[16:56] John Schwab: Cinderella or Snow White?

[17:01] Sam Yates: Um, Snow White, I think.

[17:05] John Schwab: Okay. Wicked or Le Miz?

[17:06] Sam Yates: Uh, Wicked.

[17:16] John Schwab: Dogs or cats, Sam?

[17:17] Sam Yates: Dogs.

[17:19] John Schwab: Okay, the last one, Stephen Sondheim or Lynn Manuel Miranda?

[17:23] Sam Yates: Oh god, I mean both geniuses.

[17:26] John Schwab: Yeah.

[17:26] Sam Yates: Or genii. Um, hi.

[17:30] John Schwab: Sam, thank you so much. And just before you go, um, where can people find you online?

[17:37] Sam Yates: Um, I know you say you're doing so many things. If people want to reach out, if it's Instagram or Twitter or Facebook or any of the socials, uh, what's the easiest place socially to find you?

[17:48] Sam Yates: Um, I'd probably say Instagram.

[17:51] John Schwab: Okay. Perfect. And your handle is on it?

[17:54] Sam Yates: Uh, it is Yates 2020.

[17:57] John Schwab: There you go. Excellent. Sam, um, thank you so much. A for joining us on this crazy ride, and I'm so proud of what you're achieving with our team. Um, we are just the luckiest producers to have you as a director. And also thank you for coming on and doing this podcast. And uh, and also thanks to I'm sure everyone who is um reached out to and you're doing these one-on-one zoom calls with, are so so so grateful because uh, it's just gives people an outlet to say here I am and uh, and carry on with the growth in their careers. So I really really appreciate it.

[18:33] Sam Yates: Gives me an outlet too, so thanks to them.

[18:35] John Schwab: Awesome. Thank you, John.

[18:37] Sam Yates: See ya.

[18:37] John Schwab: See ya.

[18:44] John Schwab: Sam Yates there, director on the first production in Curtain Call's Remote Read Series, A Separate Peace by Sir Tom Stoppard. The live performance will be this Saturday, May 2nd at 7 p.m. GMT, which is 2 p.m. in New York and 11 a.m. in LA. You can donate or purchase a ticket for A Separate Peace by visiting theremote read.com. The Remote Read is produced by Curtain Call, co-produced by Platform Presents here in the UK and Apples and Oranges in the US. Our equipment sponsors for the series are Shure, the microphone specialists. Join us tomorrow when the producers, including myself from the Remote Read, we'll be taking our own bows.