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[0:04] Dori Berinstein: Welcome to Deep Dive Broadway.

[0:06] Dori Berinstein: Our guest today is the legendary songwriter Diane Warren, who has written hits for artists including Beyoncé, Cher, Aerosmith, Kiss, Lady Gaga, Chicago, Toni Braxton, Starship, Mariah Carey, and Celine Dion, just to name a few.

[0:23] Dori Berinstein: She's had nine number one songs and 32 top ten hits.

[0:27] Dori Berinstein: She's won a Grammy, an Emmy, two Golden Globe, including one earlier this year, and she's been ASCAP's songwriter of the year six times, and Billboard songwriter of the year four times.

[0:40] Dori Berinstein: Her songs have been in more than 100 movies, resulting in 12.

[0:45] Dori Berinstein: Yes, 12 Oscar nominations, including one for her most recent hit, "Io Si (Seen)" from the Oscar-nominated film The Life Ahead by Eduardo Ponti, starring his mother, Sophia Loren.

[1:00] Dori Berinstein: Before we start the interview, let's just take a moment and listen to the song.

[2:15] Dori Berinstein: I'm beyond thrilled and honored to welcome Diane Warren.

[2:21] Dori Berinstein: Diane, congratulations.

[2:23] Diane Warren: Thank you.

[2:23] Dori Berinstein: You just won the Golden Globe.

[2:25] Dori Berinstein: And this is your twelfth Oscar nomination for such a breathtaking song.

[2:31] Dori Berinstein: It's magnificent and it's also so emotionally impactful. Can you give us a little context for the film and your process of bringing this great song to the film?

[2:46] Diane Warren: So I got involved in The Life Ahead, Sophia Loren stars in the movie, and I read the script and it just moved me, you know, really deeply. It's such a beautiful story about, you know, you have Madame Rosa, who's played by Sophia Loren, and Momo. So she's like this, you know, old prostitute, and he's this young street kid thief, you know, and the world doesn't see them. You know, they're kind of outcasts on the outside and they don't even see each other at the beginning, so they're kind of thrown together and, you know, they ultimately do see each other and they see each other through their hearts. You know, it's and that's what I wrote the song about. I kept seeing that word "seen," you know, and the fact that these people aren't seen by the world.

And I thought, you know, in a larger way, the time we're living in, you know, we don't see each other. Yeah, you know, we don't really look. We don't, we just see each other through politics or through whatever, you know, and then you have, you know, COVID where we all felt invisible, but you literally didn't see people except, you know, on Zoom, but you don't, you know, you didn't really spend time with people. I think a lot of people, you know, a lot of people felt really lonely and cut off from the world and again not seeing each other. And I thought, and it just as time was going on, even after the movie came out, the song became almost more compelling with the narrative of real life, you know.

It's so relevant, you know. We're living in a time where that's so judgmental, everyone's so judgmental, you know, not everyone, but you know, and a lot of people are so, uh, don't get me started, everybody's, yeah, like, yeah. And so this resonates on so many levels, and of course it's an incredibly powerful song that brings this film together emotionally.

[4:45] Dori Berinstein: Was it your idea to write "Seen" or were you guided by the director to write this specific song?

[4:54] Diane Warren: No, I, when I read a script, I kind of, you know, I kind of, it's almost like a subconscious thing that I take from that. I feel like I want to reflect the emotional core of that movie, right? So I just kind of, and also, well, one great thing is I went to Bari, Italy when they were filming, when they were actually filming the movie. I got to spend a day on the set with Eduardo and Sophia while they were, and Ibrahim, who played Momo, who's amazing, by the way. He's never acted a day in his life. He's a genius. So I spent the day in a, and it was a really heavy scene. You know, it was when she dies. And um, so I got to soak in that energy. And then when I went back to LA, I had that in me, you know, along with that title of the, it kept, you know, what's in my mind.

I kept thinking over and over, I want you to know that you're seen. It's such a simple line, but it's profound because everybody wants to be seen. So I came back and I had broken my hand last year and right before the Oscars. I guess everybody was saying break a leg and I just wanted to be a little different. So I fell in my office and broke my hand. And I remember, you know, just sitting down to write it. It was a little difficult, you know. But I did it, and I wrote "Seen" and I went to Eduardo's house and played it for him on my guitar with a broken hand in one hand and a guitar in the other. And I somehow, I have a picture somewhere, it's such a great, I said we need to take a picture in case this becomes like, you know, next year's Oscars.

Let's just, you know, let's just take a picture and then, you know, I believe in manifesting. So, and he loved the song. And then what happened was, you know, I did a demo, the song was put in the movie, and it wasn't fitting, and I realized it's not fitting because the movie's in Italian. Like we kept trying all these different musical arrangements. Let's change the tempo. Let's do it. And I'm like, no, it has to be in Italian. So I called somebody and had them, you know, just do some kind of, you know, translation. And then I brought in, I thought, you know what, Laura Pausini is the best singer, just like Sophia Loren is the legendary actress from Italy. Let's, you have to get the best of the best of the best female singer.

And I'd met Laura Pausini and we had talked about working together a while ago. I thought this is when we need to work together. She needs to, her voice, she's such a great singer. So she's like their Celine Dion, you know. She's amazing. So I sent her the song and she loved it, and she, Eduardo showed her the movie, and then, you know, she wrote the Italian lyrics, you know, based on my lyrics, you know, basically similar concept, but, you know, "seen" doesn't translate in Italian, you know, words don't translate exactly. You know, but I remember hearing it in Italian for the first time and it just, like, this is so beautiful. And we're the first song ever to win a Golden Globe that wasn't in English, which I was kind of surprised at, you know, more impressed.

I thought there would have been something else. And we're the first, I believe we're the first song to be nominated for an Academy Award in Italian as well. And hopefully we'll be the first to win in Italian. How cool would that be? I've lost 11 times. I'm not gonna lie, I want to win.

[8:37] Dori Berinstein: Well, absolutely, about time.

[8:39] Dori Berinstein: And I understand it's been translated into five languages.

[8:44] Diane Warren: Yeah, yeah. I was saying it's been 33 years of nominations, starting in 1988 with "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now." Yeah, Laura sang it in five languages, so she sang it in Italian and English. In fact, there's an Italian-English hybrid, you know, half and half, which is great. She sang it in Portuguese and French and Spanish. So, you know, she felt it was really, you know, she wanted to get the message across to the world. She has a lot of fans all over the world.

[9:13] Dori Berinstein: And casting someone to sing your song is very much like casting somebody for a part in a film, I would imagine.

[9:23] Diane Warren: I always say that's a hundred percent that. When I cast a song for an artist for a song in a movie, it is casting. That singer, Laura, could have been in the movie. Right? She could have been a character, you know. Her persona, her, yeah, it's so important. And I always do think of that. I always think that I'm a casting director. I'm casting for another character within that movie to do my song. And then my song's a character.

[9:53] Dori Berinstein: For sure.

[9:54] Diane Warren: And you know what's really great about this movie and this song, that once it was in Italian, Eduardo literally changed the ending of the movie. He took out dialogue to where my song became the dialogue. My song became the words that Madame Rosa leaves with Momo after she passes away. So that was really cool. So it wasn't just a song, you know, thrown on at the end of the movie with no context. I've had songs in the end of movies, but it's actually part of the narrative.

[10:22] Dori Berinstein: Did you know that the song you were writing was going to be up front, or did you think you were writing the end credit song?

[10:28] Diane Warren: Well, it is the end credit, but it starts earlier than the end.

[10:31] Dori Berinstein: Yeah, it starts much earlier.

[10:32] Diane Warren: Yeah, I had no idea. Like I thought it would just be the song at the end, you know, right with the credits. But once, you know, once it was in Italian, and you know, it just fits so well, and I think that would work with Laura on tweaking some of the lyrics so, you know, that it fit that. And um, yeah, and then it did, and you know, I remember seeing the movie with the song in it and crying and, you know, and a lot of my friends, this is interesting, like a lot of people I know that like me that don't speak, you know, that barely speak English, you know, that don't, don't speak the claim. They said they watched the end of the movie and they were sobbing. Oh, you know, I get that, I was absolutely interesting. So powerful.

[11:17] Dori Berinstein: And you know, just the power of music to change your feelings, to change how you see the world. You've done a lot of songs like this that really rise above and become transcendent, you know, whether it's RBG's, you know, "I'll Fight," which was also an Oscar-nominated, or from The Hunting Ground, the Lady Gaga song, "Til It Happens to You." I mean, these are songs that had a cultural impact.

[11:49] Diane Warren: That was before Me Too, and no one was talking about, you know, sexual assault at all. And so it even made me talk about the experience that I'd had. That's so music, like you said, it's very powerful. I always say it goes, it doesn't go to your brain, it goes to your heart and your soul. So you can't stop that. It's just like, it's visceral. This is such a perfect example of a song that adds a whole other layer to this film. It's not like here's a song and we're gonna put it on the film. This is part, this is so integral to the film and to the storytelling.

[12:25] Dori Berinstein: Yeah, exactly.

[12:26] Diane Warren: Yeah, proud of that.

[12:27] Dori Berinstein: And I'm assuming Laura's gonna be performing at the Oscars.

[12:35] Diane Warren: We're waiting to hear all that.

[12:45] Dori Berinstein: Could I want to give a little context if that's okay for your artistry and just to go back in time a little bit? Um, and because I'm fascinated with the fact that when you were little, you knew exactly what you wanted to do. You knew you were gonna be a songwriter. And that your dad was taking you around to music publishers when you were 15 years old. So how did you have this vision? How did you know this was your destiny?

[13:12] Diane Warren: I think I just, I don't know, either I was psychic or I just, I mean, I looked on a record, you know, once and saw the parentheses. And I go, I want to be there. I want to, like most people, it's like, yeah, I want to be a singer, I want to be a star. I didn't have no desire or inclination for anything like that. I just wanted to be a songwriter. And as soon as my dad brought me a little guitar from Tijuana when I was 11, you know, and then I talked him into getting me a Martin 12-string when I was 14, you know, like you bribe me if I got nothing less than a C because all I got were D's and F's that you'd get me the Martin 12-string. And then so I got that. So when I was 14, I was just obsessed, obsessed, obsessed. And I'm the same way now. I'm just as obsessed. Here's a little interesting fact. So my dad, who believed in me and took me to publishers and all that, you know, the Oscars this year are on my dad's birthday.

[14:01] Dori Berinstein: Oh wow.

[14:03] Diane Warren: So it's pretty, I'm yeah, it's pretty special. I'm like, Dad, pull some strings up there, you know.

[14:11] Dori Berinstein: Well, he was completely supportive of your dreams.

[14:15] Diane Warren: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, I can't imagine a dad who just with a 15-year-old, just he believed in your talent too, which obviously was crystal clear even at that age, which is tremendous.

[14:31] Diane Warren: I'm not sure how crystal clear that my talent was, but the hard work was there.

[14:35] Dori Berinstein: Yeah.

[14:35] Diane Warren: Yeah.

[14:36] Dori Berinstein: And that hasn't stopped.

[14:38] Diane Warren: Yeah.

[14:39] Dori Berinstein: And your musical inspirations, your heroes, you know, what helped shape you as a songwriter? Who helped shape you?

[14:46] Diane Warren: I mean, everything I listened to helped shape me. Because I grew up at a time where the radio played everything. You know, I got to hear every kind of music and every kind of influence, you know. Top 40 when I grew up when I was a little kid was everything, it was the golden era of pop songwriting really. And then a big influence on me were the Beatles, and I just, you know, Ringo Starr and Paul McCartney just did a song of mine together. Like, you know, I'm still pinching myself, you know, and other artists are on it as well. But I have literally have two Beatles, the two living Beatles are on my songs. So the little, the four, the seven-year-old me is like, yeah, exactly.

[15:30] Dori Berinstein: And did you ever want to perform?

[15:33] Diane Warren: No. I never wanted to perform. I never did, never. I like having people perform.

[15:39] Dori Berinstein: Your determination and perseverance to tell incredible stories through your music is, you know, has been is legendary. And your determination to get the right artist to sing your music is, you know, you've obviously hit it out of the park every single time. I love the Cher story that I heard, um, that the song that if I could turn back time that you originally brought to her she wasn't really initially jumping up and down like I definitely have to do it.

[16:17] Diane Warren: Well, she absolutely detested it and hated it and was refusing to sing it until I held her leg down in the studio and said, I'm not letting your fucking leg go until you say you'll try it. And I go, I'll pay for the track. You have nothing to lose. And she goes, okay. She sang one note of it and looked at me like, "Bitch, you're right." I'm like, yeah, bitch, I'm right. And the rest is history.

[16:38] Dori Berinstein: Yeah, it's her most iconic song probably really.

[16:41] Diane Warren: Oh yeah, absolutely. Getting back to your Academy-nominated song, I'm curious to know, did you have the pleasure of meeting Sophia Loren before or was this the first time you met her when you were on set?

[16:55] Diane Warren: Oh, that was the first time I ever met Sophia Loren. And the funny thing is, I had my phone, I'm going, I go, Sophia, can I get a picture with you? And she goes, no, I'm dying today. I look terrible. So we got another one, like I think it was the governor's award maybe, you know, after that. So I did get, I do have a picture with her somewhere. But we just did a panel together and she's on the panel. She said that my song's the most beautiful song she's ever heard in her life.

[17:27] Dori Berinstein: Wow.

[17:28] Diane Warren: Like how crazy is that? I was like that she said that.

[17:32] Dori Berinstein: It's not so crazy. It's an extraordinary song that and the movie is something that you have to see as well. It's a great movie. And if you guys haven't seen The Life Ahead, it's on Netflix. It's a beautiful, beautiful movie. It has a really great song.

[17:50] Diane Warren: Absolutely. It's essential. And you should download the EOC immediately.

[17:57] Dori Berinstein: And can we get it in all five languages? Because I'd love to hear it in all five languages.

[18:02] Diane Warren: Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure how to get all those languages. I mean, they're probably all on there too. But, you know, there's the, my favorite version, to be honest, is the hybrid Italian-English. You know, when you, and go check the video out, you know, and Sophia's at the end of the video. The video's fantastic, it's all these different immigrant women, you know. And it's just a beautiful, beautiful video too. Laura is singing, she's in the video, obviously. It's great. I'm so proud of it. And yeah, yeah. It's the first time I've ever had a song in a movie in another language before too.

[18:38] Dori Berinstein: Well, I so hope you make Oscar history this year. It's your year after 12 nominations. This has gotta be it. It is such a magnificent song. This has to be your year.

[18:51] Diane Warren: Yes. I'm not gonna lie, it would be awesome. It would be awesome. And you have other things happening. I know that you have an incredible solo album coming out.

[19:02] Diane Warren: And it's a features album. It's like me being a DJ, and we have amazing artists on it. And it's called Diane Warren, The Cave Sessions, Volume One. Yeah, volume one. I already have like volume two. That's what's really hard about this record. It's a great problem. I have so many great songs by great artists, I can't get everyone on this first album. You know.

[19:22] Dori Berinstein: So I mean, I have John Legend, Santana with, you know, with G-Eazy, Ty Dolla $ign, Celine Dion's on it, Luis Fonsi. It's, there's some great stuff on here. We've been great artists. And you know, some of these other ones, I'm like, oh God, I hope I can get that one on there. And then can we just put, you know, make, I wish we could make it a double record, but we can't. But there's so many good songs. And I'm always writing new ones. I'm like, wait, I want to switch that one for this one. You know, but I want to hurt this person's feelings and take it, you know. I don't know. It's a great problem now.

[19:52] Dori Berinstein: It'll, you'll just roll one out every year. That's absolutely fine, you know? When does it drop?

[19:57] Diane Warren: Supposed to be around, I think in July, is what we're looking at, you know, just trying to finish some of these up and get songs mixed and just, you know, it's a process, but it'll be up.

[20:07] Dori Berinstein: I cannot wait for that. And I can't wait for the Academy Awards and to celebrate you and to celebrate your incredible song and this beautiful film. Thank you so much for talking about this today, and we'll be thinking about you so much that night.

[20:17] Diane Warren: Thank you.

[20:22] Dori Berinstein: I appreciate it. Thank you so much. And talk to you soon.

[20:25] Diane Warren: Really soon.

[20:27] Dori Berinstein: Really soon.

[20:29] Dori Berinstein: Thank you. Thank you.

[20:32] Dori Berinstein: Thank you all for joining us for this special episode of Deep Dive Broadway. So grateful to Diane Warren for uplifting our hearts with her latest Oscar-nominated hit song, The Magnificent EOC from the Oscar-nominated film The Life Ahead. You can hear more of Diane's epic work on her upcoming album, Diane Warren, The Cave Sessions, Volume One. In the meantime, download EOC and enjoy The Life Ahead. You can find me on Instagram at Dori.Berinstein or on the Broadway Podcast Network app or website at BPN.fm/deepdivebroadway. Thank you and stay safe.

[21:28] ♪ Musical number: "Io Si (Seen)" — performed by Diane Warren ♪