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[0:05] Donnie O'Becks: Fresh for your ears, tell everybody. It's the new podcast from the producers of Destination Freedom Black Radio Days. Produced and hosted by Donnie O'Becks of No Credits Productions comes The Eclectic. Interviews with difference makers, artists, authors, bold thinkers, people we love who get stuff done. Today we begin a powerful two-part conversation with Mr. Richard Huntly, a respected member in the African American community and a survivor of one of the darkest chapters in Florida and American history. Mr. Huntley was just a child when he was taken to the Arthur G. Dozier School for Boys, also known as the Florida School for Boys. For more than a century, the state of Florida operated the so-called reform school in Mariana.

But inside its walls, it was no place for reform. It was a place of suffering, of cruelty, of unspeakable abuse. In this first episode, Mr. Huntley shares how he ended up there, the circumstances, the people involved, and what it was like to arrive at a place where childhood was stolen. It takes us back into his first days of doch and his terrifying introduction to a small white building on campus, a place known only as the White House, where boys were taken for punishment that went far beyond discipline. Mr. Huntley tells his story with strength, but please know what he describes is deeply disturbing. Listeners' discretion is advised.

[1:47] Richard Huntly: Thank you for having me. So I'd like to start with, as always, my mentor was Arthur Vincent Harding, who is the colleague of Martin Luther King Jr. And he liked to start his interviews this way. He said, tell us your full name, your mama's name, and your mama's mama's name, if you know it. And we're gonna start with memories about your father, though, before we get to there.

[2:10] Richard Huntly: Okay. My mom's name was Mabel, Mabel Hunting. And my dad was Willie Hunting. My dad was, excuse me. He passed away in 1954. We was on the road with him. Him and my mom had separated. So when we lived in a little place they called Elk, Florida at the time. And when he passed away, my mother was living in a place called Crescent City, Florida. He went there to find her, and she thought he was coming to hurt her, but actually he was coming to let her know that he was very ill and he wouldn't be able to probably return. But he wanted her to know where we were, so when he do pass away, she will know where to come and find her. And that's the way it was. But when he did find, when he did go to Crescent State and found her, she had him arrested.

She had no idea that he was to the point of death. When my dad went there, he was arrested, but he was bleeding. He had a bleeding cancer, and he was bleeding everywhere, but she didn't know that. And they put him in jail, made him go to work every day, and somehow or another he was working on the garbage truck, but he seen my little brother Arthur. And he let him know to tell Mama that he was in town and he needs to see her. So when he did get a chance to see her, he didn't get a chance to see her; he had passed away. But when she found out what had happened, she got the word from the police that he had left there that where we were. She found us in a place called Belton, Florida. And he took us back to Christian City. That's where the problem started at in Crescent City. I was about nine years old. Had no idea about anything really. I never seen white folks that much.

[4:17] Richard Huntly: And all we did was work on the seas, and all we had was black men, was the boss man and the seal hands, et cetera. So when my mom came and got and took us to Christmas City, I got with my brother Arthur. He knew the town because he was living there and I was following him. But like I said, we were coming home one day. He had told me said, well, you know, Brother, come on, go with me. He said, just follow me. Don't worry, I know where I'm at. And something to that effect. But anyway, I everywhere when I was following up behind him. And one evening we were coming home, I guess he was trying to get there before Mama knew who was to miss us because we were gonna get killed. But anyway, we went through this neighborhood and we were just going home, that's all I knew.

Police came from somewhere, and you know, he started questioning us, and I didn't know what to say. I didn't know anything. And my brother was answering, but anyway, he told us to get in the car. Well, I thought that they were going to take us home or something. I didn't know. But he took us to this little place. Little building looked like a little, like a little house. Had no idea. But when they took us inside, it was some balls. I never seen anything like that. And he had us to get him to go into these sales. I would have found me out later, that's what they were the sales. And he locked the doors and was looking the doors and everything, and my brother never didn't do anything because he didn't need to do it.

And I wanted to know where you're gonna keep us here, sir. You know what you gonna keep us here? And he told us, yeah. Yeah, I'll teach you about us. You don't feel nothing right here, et cetera. Well, I had no idea what healing was. I didn't know anything about what he was talking about. And they kept us here for you, but the time they put me in that cell, it was evening, late evening, and a plate was sitting over there. But the scary thing about it was it had food in it, but all of these things was moving in the place. Maggot. I don't know how long the plate had been there, but the maggots were scrolling all over the state and everything, you know, they kissed me to death. But anyway, he told me, yeah, he's gonna leave us there, and he did.

A brother he put him in another cell right close from me, I could see it. But from that right there, he took salmon a couple of days and took the thing home to our mother and told our mother that, you know, they didn't have no stealing right here. And she's gonna have to do something with us, get away from their son because that they did not have. Well, eventually my mother did as soon as she filled, she thought that Orlando with here was our home. And there we ran into Miss Alexander. She was a procurement officer. I guess mama knew her, and she knew Mama in the past because that's where we were from. But anyway, Miss Alexander told Mother. She said, you know, Mabel. My mother's name was Mabel.

She said, I know you're having a hard time with these boys. I know you can't raise these children by yourself. Say, but what I can do for you, say, I can take these boys and send them to school, and you won't have to worry about them. See, I can get them a good education and you won't have to worry about death. You don't have to worry about feeding them and stuff like that. And they can grow up to be some fine young men. Well, Mama, she kind of, you know, listen to that, and we kind of heard it too. Sounded good to me as well. And she told Mama, said no, you have to do it, just let me take them. And you don't have to worry about clothing them or nothing. And she and my mother said something to the fact that, well, I don't want y'all to take my children from me.

I don't never sit on them no more. So Miss Alexander told Mama said, Well, yeah, look, you don't have to worry about it. Say, honey, say, they'll be in touch with you all the time. So we, you know, they'll write you every week or so and let you know how they're doing, and they're there fine. Well, mother, she agreed to that. Okay, well, you know, I thank you. I appreciate it because I do need some help with them. But what we didn't know was that was our trip to Marijuana, Florida, Doge Reform School. We didn't know that was a school we were going to. I mean, a slave plantation really was going to. And we were kind of happy about it. But they put us in the little juvenile home. We didn't see a jury on this particular trip around, we know anything after about a few months.

We was we were riding and you know, riding, going to the school for it. We know. And I kind of happy about it. I mean, we're going and we're gonna be, you know, raise up and we're gonna, boy, we're gonna be big time one day. Well, that ended up being at Mariana dormitory school for boys. It was actually a plantation. It was segregated. Black boys was on one side that was us, and all we did was down in dirty work. We had no idea what was in store for us. When we got to that plantation, all I seen was this big, big, big, beautiful place. And I'd seen more people than I ever seen in my life at one point. All these people was boys there from lies that had been told to their count to get them to that school. Once we were at that school, it was all over. Let me stop to one second. So this lady was a truant officer at the school that you were attending. You and your brother were attending, is that correct?

[9:44] Donnie O'Becks: Yes, she is.

[9:45] Donnie O'Becks: Okay. Now and I want to clarify too, you never were in front of a judge.

[9:52] Richard Huntly: Right. The first time around, we did when they sent us to Marina the first time. I didn't know what a jury we just sent us, but the car picked us up and we left going to Mariana. That's according to my memory. I didn't have nobody tell us it. Now the second time we went, I went, I did see a judge. But go ahead, I'm sorry.

[10:12] Donnie O'Becks: So let's talk about this. Was 1957 when you first were enslaved?

[10:16] Richard Huntly: Yes, sir. Yeah, correct.

[10:17] Donnie O'Becks: Yes, sir. Tell me, tell me about you. Say you drove you rode up to the place, you thought it was a big and beautiful place. Talk about how you, your first days there.

[10:28] Richard Huntly: My first days there was devastating. I didn't know where I was, what we were doing, but I know we were preparing for the school we're supposed to go to. All the boys there in the dormitories and stuff, they took us and introduced us where we were going to be, my brother and I. He was in one place, I was in another, scared to death. Well there they took and cut out hair, started going, taking shots and stuff like that, and I'm wondering when in the world we supposed to get to our school. Not knowing this was where the school was. And living with that thought for the first few days and guys was kind of picking at us and telling us, you know, you know, you're at the school, you know. But anyway, from that point on I realized we wasn't going anywhere.

And that's where it all started at. The first the first few days was okay. But then I found out the guys picking at you and you know doing whatever they do or try to do and they told me, said well man say I'm okay the boys from my hometown that knew me or that anytime you go someplace they want to know where you're from. So the boys who knew I was from Orlando they took Melody Wayne said man say, look, if you stick with us we're gonna try to help you get out of here man but say they got anything you do they take you to the White House. You don't want to go there. So whatever you do bro try to keep from going to the White House. Well I didn't know what they was talking about but I was just following it you know if I could but I had some kind of mind I guess I felt like we were tricked I felt like I didn't know what was going on and the boys picking at you all the time some of the boys you hear them talking about what they're gonna do to other boys at night some etc. I didn't have no idea about all that either.

But my homeboys told me what was going on. And I tried to do the best I could, but the first boy came talking about what he was going to do to me like that at night or whatever have you. I jumped on it. And when I jumped on him, when they told me to stop, I didn't stop, but I didn't know. I mean, I was young, I didn't, you know, I just yeah, when I crossed the line because my homeboys were telling me.

[12:44] Richard Huntly: And how old were you?

[12:45] Richard Huntly: I was 11 years old when I went. I just turned 11. My birthday was in April. I was kidding. In April, I was, I mean April I was eleven. And May, I was that May, I turned eleven in April. In May, I was in the fields of Doja Reform School. Just that quick. But the boys would when I started fighting, they told me to stop I didn't. That awarded me to what everybody kept trying to tell me, don't go to the White House, don't go to the White House. You know, Richard, don't go to a fight. Hey, hunt, don't go to the White House. Well, I heard what they said, but when I get angry, I guess I didn't remember that. Well, that landed me into the White House. All the stuff they was telling me, I didn't understand. But I tell you of this, or tell you of the truth, when I when I got to the White House, I understood what they were talking about.

[13:50] Donnie O'Becks: We're speaking with Richard Huntley, the author of I Survived Dozer, the deadliest reform school in America. Okay, describe to me first the building exterior. Then we'll talk about the events that happened within the White House.

[14:05] Richard Huntly: The White House was a little, just like you described, was a little white, dingy house. When I was there in 1957, it was kind of yellowish, I guess from age. But you're sitting out there by itself, you wouldn't even realize it was a place where the, you know, you got beat and you know, beat into submission.

[14:27] Richard Huntly: But anyway, when I got there, uh that day it was four or five of us, and um uh they told us to go inside. Mr. Marbly was the uh was the uh I called him the you know, the um the butcher. But anyway, he was a big, big black man at my age, 11 years old. He was about 250, he looked like a huge, huge person, you know. And he stood in the door as we got there, they pulled up on the side of the building, and they had an old raggedy door there. They had a lock on it. Mr. Marbly got out and opened that door and told us, they you know, say now I want y'all to march on in here. Well, we got out of the cars, we marched in. It was an old cold, smelly, dirty looking building. Smell like pee, smell like I don't know what you can't name what it smelled like, but I can tell you it was deadly.

When we got in there and it was five or six rooms in there, went in, had some dim lights in it, uh like 15 or 20 white bugs. It was real, real dark and dim smelly. And Mr. Marbley told us that the first room we got was to have a seat. We sat in there and then they had the white man there. His name was Mr. Mitchell, he was the superintendent at the school. And he would say things like he'd give you a speech before we put you on the killing block. He'd say things like, you know, now you boys came over here today because you did something you didn't have no business, you're hard-headed. But I'm gonna tell you, boys, this, and I'm not gonna tell you but one time. I know you boys don't like to come over here, but you did something wrong, and you're gonna have to stop that.

Now, when you leave here today, you won't know we mean business. And if we leave here today, the next time you come, it's gonna be worse. Now, I want you boys to understand one thing. It's gonna hurt me more than it hurt y'all. Well, I I heard that little speech, and I I couldn't, I could still hear that little bit of rain in my mind today, but that little speech brought on some real fire. The first time I went on uh I don't know what was in my record, which I found out later. I said, Lord, I he said when I picked you one of y'all, you get up and go in this room. But I was saying, Lord, I I hope you don't pick me. I was scared. I was trembling. Don't seem like my legs could hold my weight. Everybody was sniffing, crying, and I just couldn't understand what was going on.

Well, he picked me to go in that room. About 15 or 20 steps from the room we was in, it's a little room right close to the hole. And he told me to go in that room. But when I got in that room, it was just Mr. Marvel that was standing there. Huge man. And he told me, uh, get on that bed. But when I looked at the bed, the bed was scary. It was unbelievable. The pillar on it was something like a feather pill, and it was kind of stiff. But on that pillar, it looked like it was smart, blood, vomit. Everything was on, and it was shiny, stiff. The little mattress on there was had no sheet on it. And you could just look like spots of blood, whatever was on it. On the wall, it looked like blood was on the wall and splattered.

All of this was scary. This was so scary. And he hollered again and told me, get on that bed. Look at that wall. And you better not turn that bed loose. Nigga, you better not turn that bed loose. I was on the bed and I tried to do what they say. I looked at the wall and everything, but let me tell you. I knew something was finna happen, but they didn't let me see what they was gonna use. They had it hanging on the wall. But I tell you of a truth, and this is hard to tell you. I know what my ancestors felt. They took that strop with a hole of a 50% at the end of it. About two and a half, three feet long, if that long. The handle was made to fit the hand. And the first time they hit me, Mr. Marvel hit me, it seemed like he drove me about two inches in that bed.

I had a pain that shot through my body to my brain froze. It took me a second or two to figure out where the heck I was and what was going on, what's happening here. And he hit me again, boom. I couldn't figure out what was having to hurt it so bad. I wanted to scream. The scream wouldn't come. He hit me again, boom. And all I could feel was just trying to keep from screaming out. All in my gut. It was like trying to get it out, but it wouldn't come. About to bust my stomach. The pain was so severe. I don't want to wish that on no man I know, even the worst enemy. I understood before that beating was over what it meant when Jesus gave up the ghost. After whipping him all night long with a cattail.

See, in this White House, I call it breaking a slave when they turn you loose, they when they're hitting you on your butt and your leg, they pull the meat from your bone while you're laying down. It's so painful that I think no man could explain this pain. Even Jesus didn't. I understand. The pain was so severe before this beating was over. I asked my parent, my four parents, to take me home to let me come home. The pain was so severe, but I could hear a voice saying, No, not yet. Go back. So you can tell the world this is real. This pain is real. Well, I tell you, I'm trying to tell you, but oh man. Mr. Hudley. Anyway. Just take your time. That's a pain. And no man could explain. I left that whenever we finished.

I don't know when I finished. They told me to stand on a corner. Get up off that bed. Stand over there in that corner. Well, I was trying to get up off the bed, and uh my backside felt like uh there was three or four. It felt like it was hanging down. And I was afraid to reach behind me to feel my butt because I was scared of a spit open, I was scared with blood everywhere. It's just so happened that God be with me. I didn't get spit open that day. But that pain and the way it felt and the weight that was on me, that can't be explained either. Now I had to stand there and listen to the other three or four boys, four boys get beat. I could hear screaming all the way home. I could hear about the bombers today, the daddy's sisters, God, help me.

Please, don't hear me. And I'm not any different. I said all of this, maybe not screaming out in the loud voice, but in my heart and my mind, in my soul, and my belly. I prayed like people never prayed before. As an 11-year-old boy, I didn't know you could pray like that. But I prayed. And I begged. And I tell you what, at the time, the second time I went, I remember my mother always told me, any time you're in trouble, you call on Jesus. Call Jesus, I declare he'll come. Well, I want to tell the world, I called Jesus. I called him. But the difference is he came. And when Jesus came, he looked at me and I begged him to stop it. And he told to keep on going. He told Mr. Marvel, he just nodded his head to keep on going.

I said all that to say, because the Jesus I seen looked just looked just like the Jesus that was sitting on all the walls. My mother loved me, having a white Jesus on the wall. Jesus came. And I didn't understand. If Jesus came, but he told him to keep on going. Now, brother, I I can tell you, and not ashamed to tell you, that was a hurting I never experienced in my life. The other boys that had to go in after me. I heard some noises that were making me tremble in your shoes. I heard some begging feeding, crying. And when it was all over, they put us in that same car and they took us back. They take you back to the barracks where you live, where you were staying. And they take you back always at dinner time.

When everybody's eating, everybody going to the mess home. And they let you have to come. So everybody can see. Some of the guys weren't able to stand up. Some of the guys had to kind of fall a little. Some of the guys take 16 steps. That was one of one of them was me. I couldn't move fast. Everybody and everybody looking at you from the left. That's all why. And the beating so bad sometimes you couldn't sit down. It takes you ten minutes to sit down. Some of the guys had to have a pillow to sit down. Some of the guys that be split open when they leave the White House. Some of them pants is beat into the skin of their meat on the back of the leg. Some of them have this spit wide over blood just coming out.

Never seen a doctor that I know anything about. During those days was nets. All over your backside. And suddenly, oh, you see, there's a big black spot. What the spot was, it was net. Nets warming the dead blood coming out of you. And they just drink blood until they get drunk on your backside, look like a big black patch. Brothers. I have to kill you these things. I um.

[26:45] Donnie O'Becks: Well, I thank you so much for sharing that. We are speaking with Richard Huntley, and he just shared with you his first visit to the White House. His book is entitled I Survived Dozer, the Deadliest Reform School in America. It was infamous. Some people may have heard of Nickel Boys movie. This is the real experience from someone who experienced it. Not once but twice, being enslaved at the reform school. Please join us for part two, where Mr. Huntley continues his story, describing life inside the school, the labor he was forced to do, and how faith, friendship, and hope helped him endure. And if this episode moved you, consider sharing it with someone who needs to hear it.

[28:10] Donnie O'Becks: The series is produced by Donny O'Bett for No Credits Productions LLC, and is co-produced with sound design and original music by Maurice Smith at Dartonic Labs.com. Until next time, thank you. I'm Donnie L. Betts.