This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:12] Danielle Betts: Welcome to episode four of Destination Freedom Black Radio Days Podcast.

[0:17] Danielle Betts: I'm your host and producer Danielle Betts. For more than 20 years now, Destination Freedom Black Radio Days picked up where the first nationwide African American radio drama left off.

[0:28] Danielle Betts: The original Boundary Breaking program produced in Chicago by Richard Durham more than 60 years ago walked the daring line between reform and revolution. It illuminated important yet largely unknown chapters in the history of human rights and demonstrated how radio played its part in the struggle for social change.

[0:46] Danielle Betts: However, as McCarthyism and anti-communism tightened its grip on America broadcasting, the radio program was shut down in 1950. Our current show, now branded Black Radio Days, draws on the classic archives of the original Destination Freedom Program.

[1:01] Danielle Betts: Since 1998, we've continued the tradition of showcasing the extraordinary lives of great African Americans and other people of color, past and present. In our upcoming season, we will examine the intersection of law enforcement and communities of color by exploring the complex issues of police shooting, immigration, and gender bias.

[1:21] Danielle Betts: Support for Destination Freedom is provided by Bon F. Stanford Foundation, the Ulypian Fund of the Denver Foundation, and RsN Society. For more information, please visit nocredits.com and click on Destination Freedom.

[1:41] Danielle Betts: Enrique's journey is based on the Pulitzer Prize winning novel by Sonia Nazario and adopted by Anthony J. Garcia. Garcia describes Enrique's's journey as a beautiful, sad, and inspiring testimony to the power of love and loneliness.

[1:55] Danielle Betts: Although love does not solve everything for Enrique's, without it, he cannot survive. Enrique's journey is about an immigrant from Honduras as he navigates a hostile world filled with thugs, bandits, and corrupt cops.

[2:08] Danielle Betts: His dangerous journey forces him to cross rivers and cling to the tops of trains as he travels to the United States to reunite with his mother. Enrique's journey will be told in four parts. Stay tuned afterwards for our community discussion directly after the program.

[2:23] Danielle Betts: And now, Enrique's's Journey, part one. I want to bring up Tony real quick to introduce the cast and also just introduce himself. It's a great collaboration. I'm very excited to be part of this with Sutraco, Tony Garcia, artistic director of Sutraco.

[2:53] Tony Garcia: Thank you. Thank you all very, very much. For those of you who might not be familiar with Sutiatro, we are entering our 47th year, and we're looking forward to celebrating 50 years. We grew out of the Chicano movement. We always say that very proudly, a social activist movement.

[3:08] Tony Garcia: We were a group that was out there performing in the streets on in the UMC, out in Chautauqua, you name it. We were out here. I remember a lot of times, you're remembering this, right, Yolanda? The times when we actually used to come up here to picket the Safeway stores in support of Cesar Chavez and the United Farm Workers.

[3:27] Tony Garcia: Eventually we moved into our space, and we're one of those groups that produces a lot of its own material. It's kind of a rarity. I didn't realize it was because I'm not watching everybody else. I'm just trying to figure out what I'm doing. Because you get lost, right?

[3:43] Tony Garcia: So we actually have a history of really producing work about Colorado, particularly Chicanos in Colorado, because that's a story that are not, these are not foreign stories. These are not stories from another land. These are stories that come from here from Colorado, as we're these are Colorado stories. These are very much about our community.

[4:01] Tony Garcia: In 2010, I was approached to do an adaptation of Enrique's's Journey, a Pulitzer Prize winning book by Sonia Nazario. She won the Pulitzer Prize for journalism. She had met this young man, Enrique's, in Juarez, and she had a conversation with him. He told us an incredible story. He'd been deported eight times.

[4:26] Tony Garcia: He traveled more than 3,000 miles. It took him three months. And I was given the book and one month to do an adaptation of it because they were under a deadline at Fort Lewis College. And it was really incredible writing. I tried to match, I took a lot of her dialogue that Sonia did, and I tried to match that feel for it.

[4:46] Tony Garcia: I have to say, I got the better end of the deal. Sonia went back after having these conversations with Enrique's and actually did the journey herself. As a woman in her mid-30s, early 40s, someplace in there. I don't want to get in trouble by really revealing where that was. But did she ride the tops of the trains? She did get to stay in hotel rooms at night, but essentially she traveled Enrique's's journey.

[5:10] Tony Garcia: I sat in my office and typed this script out. But we put it up and it became very important for us. And so I'd like to take a moment and actually introduce the actors right now. We have Felicia Gallegos Perez, give him a round of applause, por favor, Yolanda Ortega, aka La Reina, Paula Miranda, Jose Jose Guerrero, Miguel Martiman, and Angel Mendez Soto.

[5:46] Tony Garcia: And of course, direct from Chile, Adolfo Romero.

[5:55] ♪ Musical number: "Oh Freedom" — performed by the cast ♪

[6:25] Enrique's Journey: La Despedida, the goodbye.

[6:59] Actor: I feel this bag, and then I breathe it in the fumes. It brings me closer to you mommy mommy ten cuidado el fuego the fire spur of fuego mommy the fire it's surrounding you I see you enrique mommy me boy I'm coming mommy mommy please get up mommy you will die for for mommy no temporas mommy don't die us the fire it's too hot I can't it pushes me back one more time I approach the fire I'm getting closer mommy why do you leave me I must have been dreaming but there you are just like you were when I was a baby mommy dame pico I'm besito mommy mommy, Mommy, look what I can do.

[8:48] Actor: I can be a plane. Don't forget to go to church this afternoon. Don't stand me, mommy. Where's my mother? Welcome to Los Angeles. See, Senora Murray. I will make sure Alison is fed and finish his playtime and is washed and ready for dinner when you and the senor return from work.

[9:36] Actor: Hello. See, Papito. It won't be long. Not preoccupies. Mira lo que te envié. Do you like the gifts I sent you? But when you regresar. Los zapatos. Son the Michael Jordan. Some caros. Remember, mijo. You must study hard in school. I want you to graduate from high school. You promised you would return soon. You get to the port. I have dreams for you, Enrique's. Regresa. We need the money. Come home.

[10:16] Actor: Papi, that's not possible. Do you hear me? Come home. Please. Empty places. Emptiness where arms should be. My dreams never take me far away from you. My sueños are nightmares full of pain and loneliness.

[10:53] Actor: You are a baby and I hold you and you learn to walk. I hold your hand. You let my hand go. And my sueños, I work and you go to school. I dreamt you a doctor. A businessman in a white shirt. And my sueños, I work. I sell jugo, fruit juice, I sell tamales. I help any way that I can. And my sueños, I escape to you and we're all together.

[11:26] Actor: In my sueños, I use this paper bag filled with glue and fumes. So that you are my sister, but I haven't seen you in so long. You live so far now. Your uniform. He has a new girlfriend. Things were good for a while after Mama left, but he is another woman. She's gonna have a baby. Papa's girlfriend is gonna have a baby.

[12:37] Actor: Valentine's Day card. It's for Abuela. Why does it say mama? Because that's who my mama is. My papa only cares about his novia and their new baby. And his mama, she takes care of me. I know she exists because today we have gifts. I'm so angry. Last Mother's Day I too made a card. But I will give it to Awela. At least she looks like mama.

[13:11] Actor: Well she should. She's her daughter. Son de la misma sang. I live with Papa's mama and you live with mammas. Enrique, I wish I could just hit something or someone every time I think about mama being gone. Well, I can. And I will. I won't let anything hold me back.

[13:32] Actor: You so Enrique's. Someone's gonna see you. Well I finished school because I promised Mama. You might be an old man by then. They hold you back too greats. Is it gonna change my life? Probably not. It could. Look at you. The school, the books and buena student.

[14:00] Actor: See, but I would trade everything. Todo. So I could just be with her. If she loved us, it would be possible no te creas we are centered Lorita your word broken you're spilling all over the floor santos can't you see that I need you this is your baby too is very the baby's not even here yet and for that reason you should go to the hospital santos aren't you coming to doctor Santos we have another one doctor I see nurse no papers no money and pregnant how could you be such a burden on everyone I came to work looks like it hasn't been an easy pregnancy no I have been sick from the beginning you should have been off your feet I couldn't I had to work doctor she has a fever of 105 That's not good is it's okay we'll work it out here we go here we go baby's out no looks like little Diana and you will be staying for a couple of days.

[15:51] Tony Garcia: Bueno, a celebr.

[16:11] Unknown speaker: Becky, Enrique's.

[16:16] Unknown speaker: Y ahora Diana.

[16:18] Unknown speaker: Ay, que sola estoy.

[16:24] Unknown speaker: Pobrecita mi Diana.

[16:27] Unknown speaker: You have a mummy that is sad and broken.

[16:32] Unknown speaker: I fell working at the airplane plant and y ahora me done la bote.

[16:38] Unknown speaker: My shoulder is bruised and I can barely move it.

[16:41] Unknown speaker: But what we say?

[16:43] Unknown speaker: We have to try and work.

[16:50] Unknown speaker: No, no.

[16:54] Unknown speaker: No is not drinking.

[16:55] Unknown speaker: No is not.

[16:56] Unknown speaker: Not is not.

[16:57] Unknown speaker: No, can I not?

[16:59] Unknown speaker: You're not making any sense.

[17:00] Unknown speaker: It's not because no importa.

[17:03] Unknown speaker: No sirve.

[17:05] Unknown speaker: Nada te digo.

[17:06] Unknown speaker: Well, I can't continue this stupid conversation.

[17:08] Unknown speaker: Then I'll travel.

[17:09] Unknown speaker: Oh, see.

[17:12] Unknown speaker: To see who?

[17:13] Unknown speaker: The one you're going to see.

[17:18] Unknown speaker: Me voy.

[17:19] Unknown speaker: No.

[17:25] Unknown speaker: Diana is our daughter.

[17:26] Unknown speaker: Is that que esta is nuestra casa?

[17:30] Unknown speaker: See, this is our house.

[17:31] Unknown speaker: We live here together.

[17:33] Unknown speaker: Entonces porque putas tiene usted que anda jodiendo con los hombres de la pizzeria.

[17:37] Unknown speaker: Callate, Santos.

[17:38] Unknown speaker: Don't start accusing me of anything that you don't know about.

[17:42] Unknown speaker: Are you telling me that you are not you were not driving around with one of those culeros from the bar?

[17:47] Unknown speaker: No, Jay.

[17:48] Unknown speaker: I gave one of the muchas who works in the restaurant a ride home.

[17:52] Unknown speaker: It's a free and he didn't have a jacket.

[17:55] Unknown speaker: Yes, yes, see, I did that.

[17:57] Unknown speaker: Todo bien.

[17:59] Unknown speaker: Me voy.

[18:05] Unknown speaker: Let me go.

[18:09] Unknown speaker: Go.

[18:15] Unknown speaker: I have to go to work.

[18:18] Unknown speaker: I am going, Santos.

[18:20] Unknown speaker: And Diana's going with me.

[18:22] Unknown speaker: And somebody.

[18:24] Unknown speaker: We are finished.

[18:25] Unknown speaker: Nada is not.

[18:34] Unknown speaker: Hello?

[18:38] Unknown speaker: See.

[18:39] Unknown speaker: See, mommy.

[18:42] Unknown speaker: See.

[18:44] Unknown speaker: See, mommy.

[18:47] Unknown speaker: I'm glad to talk to you.

[18:50] Unknown speaker: Much time has passed since the last time we spoke.

[18:54] Unknown speaker: Yes, yes.

[18:55] Unknown speaker: I know you left a message with Al Signora delmira.

[18:59] Unknown speaker: But mommy, it's not the same.

[19:03] Unknown speaker: You care to voice, mommy.

[19:05] Unknown speaker: I want to see you.

[19:13] Unknown speaker: See, Belky ya me dijo que tienes otra nueva hija.

[19:18] Unknown speaker: Yes, I'm glad to be a big brother.

[19:21] Unknown speaker: But Belky me dijo.

[19:24] Unknown speaker: How can you handle more kids now?

[19:32] Unknown speaker: See, the school is.

[19:35] Unknown speaker: The teachers are fine.

[19:37] Unknown speaker: But mommy, can you hop can you come home for Christmas?

[19:44] Unknown speaker: Oh, see.

[19:46] Unknown speaker: You probably have to work.

[19:54] Unknown speaker: See.

[20:04] Unknown speaker: You'll send for me soon.

[20:07] Unknown speaker: See, mommy.

[20:09] Unknown speaker: Adios, mama.

[20:10] Unknown speaker: I will see you soon.

[20:12] Unknown speaker: I call to tell you I will work on a plan to bring you to me.

[20:12] Unknown speaker: I will work on a plan to go to you.

[20:32] Unknown speaker: Is that you can do anything you want?

[20:36] Unknown speaker: Si eres ciudadana.

[20:43] Unknown speaker: Do you say legal?

[20:45] Unknown speaker: You don't need papers.

[20:47] Unknown speaker: All you need is money.

[20:50] Unknown speaker: Dicen, come to the United States.

[20:52] Unknown speaker: There's plenty of work.

[20:54] Unknown speaker: Oh si mucho trabajo, but I went to the officer of immigration the other day.

[21:01] Unknown speaker: Mijo was arrested in the raid.

[21:04] Unknown speaker: And I have not heard a word about where he might be.

[21:07] Unknown speaker: And I met a woman right there in the immigration office.

[21:12] Unknown speaker: Maybe she can help, Domingo, since I have been here, you have been like a mother to me.

[21:18] Unknown speaker: You let me live with you, you lend me money, you look after me.

[21:22] Unknown speaker: I trust you.

[21:26] Unknown speaker: But she was right there in the officer.

[21:30] Unknown speaker: Aquajeta.

[21:32] Unknown speaker: She Gloria Patel.

[21:45] Unknown speaker: Oh see, legal is good.

[21:48] Unknown speaker: Is she a loo is she a lawyer?

[21:50] Unknown speaker: No sé, but mira, I think that the Statue of Liberty.

[21:55] Unknown speaker: La Signora Libertad.

[21:57] Unknown speaker: That means something, you know.

[22:01] Unknown speaker: Entregame a those poor, a loss, as a masses upinadas ancient respirator.

[22:09] Unknown speaker: Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.

[22:16] Unknown speaker: Envy, the wretched refuse of your teaming shore.

[22:27] Unknown speaker: Send these the homeless tempest toss to me.

[22:31] Unknown speaker: I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

[22:35] Unknown speaker: That was so beautiful.

[22:37] Unknown speaker: La Signora Libertad sounds like the Virgin of Guadalupe.

[22:43] Unknown speaker: No wonder Mexicanos are always praying to her.

[22:47] Unknown speaker: They're hoping she can help them with their papers.

[22:53] Unknown speaker: I would bring my hijos to live with me.

[23:02] Unknown speaker: I would buy a house.

[23:03] Unknown speaker: I would get a driver's license.

[23:04] Unknown speaker: I would get car insurance.

[23:06] Unknown speaker: I would get a car.

[23:12] Unknown speaker: I would no longer hide.

[23:14] Unknown speaker: I would be so proud to say that this is my country.

[23:29] Unknown speaker: If all goes well, I can be home for Christmas.

[23:42] Unknown speaker: It's Christmas.

[23:44] Unknown speaker: And today, my mother will come through the door with boxes and gifts.

[23:53] Unknown speaker: Enrique, open the box.

[23:56] Unknown speaker: They are Nike tennis shoes.

[23:58] Unknown speaker: Go on, Mijo, ponete los mommy.

[24:03] Unknown speaker: They're the best.

[24:05] Unknown speaker: They cost.

[24:06] Unknown speaker: They look expensive.

[24:09] Unknown speaker: Everything I did and all the time I was away was for you.

[24:14] Unknown speaker: I want the best for you.

[24:16] Unknown speaker: Mammy, Nunca te vayas.

[24:19] Unknown speaker: Live here.

[24:21] Unknown speaker: Work here.

[24:24] Unknown speaker: I will work.

[24:26] Unknown speaker: And we can have our life here.

[24:28] Unknown speaker: Together.

[24:33] Unknown speaker: She will hug me.

[24:35] Unknown speaker: Come si la brasso fuera para siempre.

[24:38] Unknown speaker: Like the hug lasted forever.

[24:41] Unknown speaker: I think it's now the skin.

[24:44] Unknown speaker: We's been nice to see you today.

[24:47] Unknown speaker: Thank you.

[24:48] Unknown speaker: Señorita Patel.

[24:50] Unknown speaker: Hola.

[24:51] Unknown speaker: Domingo and Lourdes, thank you for coming in.

[24:54] Unknown speaker: I hope you like our offices.

[24:57] Unknown speaker: The office of the Consulate of Guatemala is located right across the lobby.

[25:01] Unknown speaker: We work with them all the time.

[25:04] Unknown speaker: Gracias for helping us, pero dinero is much.

[25:10] Unknown speaker: Yes, you are right.

[25:12] Unknown speaker: It is a lot of money, but the legal way costs money.

[25:16] Unknown speaker: It is the only way that you will be able to see your family.

[25:20] Unknown speaker: Don't you want to be together?

[25:22] Unknown speaker: It's just that we don't have a lot of money.

[25:25] Unknown speaker: We clean houses, offices.

[25:28] Unknown speaker: We don't make much.

[25:30] Unknown speaker: $8,000 is a lot of money.

[25:33] Unknown speaker: It is what I make in three months.

[25:35] Unknown speaker: I don't know how long it would take for me to raise the full $5,000.

[25:40] Unknown speaker: I understand.

[25:42] Unknown speaker: It is a big commitment, but the money goes to pay for all of the fees and paperwork.

[25:48] Unknown speaker: And it will all be legal.

[25:50] Unknown speaker: Well, you can try to do it by yourself, and you will get nowhere.

[25:54] Unknown speaker: You need a lawyer to represent you.

[25:58] Unknown speaker: I will represent you.

[26:05] Unknown speaker: Three months ago, not I couldn't work anywhere.

[26:08] Unknown speaker: And now I have my residency card.

[26:14] Unknown speaker: I'm sorry that it took so long.

[26:16] Unknown speaker: We have filed the citizenship papers and we should be hearing back soon.

[26:20] Unknown speaker: Oh, yes.

[26:22] Unknown speaker: Thank you for the work you did for my primo.

[26:25] Unknown speaker: Lamigra was set to deport him.

[26:28] Unknown speaker: And now he can stay here legally.

[26:32] Unknown speaker: As long as he stays out of trouble.

[26:37] Unknown speaker: Dominga, I started work on your son's case.

[26:40] Unknown speaker: Mira, Senorita Patel.

[26:46] Unknown speaker: No more.

[26:49] Unknown speaker: I too came from another country.

[26:51] Unknown speaker: So the Salvador.

[26:53] Unknown speaker: Oh?

[26:53] Unknown speaker: Okay.

[26:54] Unknown speaker: Not that.

[26:59] Unknown speaker: It is a lot of money.

[27:01] Unknown speaker: But I explicit.

[27:03] Unknown speaker: Um I gastos.

[27:05] Unknown speaker: There are costs.

[27:07] Unknown speaker: I know many people in the immigration office, and they have helped me before, and they will help us again.

[27:15] Unknown speaker: They like me.

[27:16] Unknown speaker: Because I am the best.

[27:18] Unknown speaker: I don't make a lot of money.

[27:20] Unknown speaker: I have to spread it around.

[27:24] Unknown speaker: Do you want me to work for you?

[27:25] Unknown speaker: See, or no?

[27:26] Unknown speaker: Momentita.

[27:28] Unknown speaker: It's much dinero.

[27:30] Unknown speaker: But she's already started the paperwork from my already been robbed twice from liars and thieves promising to help.

[27:40] Unknown speaker: So far it's cost me 3,500.

[27:43] Unknown speaker: But she has his papers.

[27:47] Unknown speaker: Rominga.

[27:49] Unknown speaker: Lourdes.

[27:51] Unknown speaker: I am only here to help.

[27:54] Unknown speaker: And I tell you what, I'll help you.

[27:58] Unknown speaker: I will drop my price to 1,000 now.

[28:01] Unknown speaker: Now and 3,000 total.

[28:05] Unknown speaker: That is a great opportunity.

[28:08] Unknown speaker: If, and this is if, you could bring me some others.

[28:12] Unknown speaker: Others that we can help.

[28:16] Unknown speaker: Why do you do this?

[28:17] Unknown speaker: When I came to this country, somebody helped me.

[28:20] Unknown speaker: And when I became a lawyer, I did so because I like to help people.

[28:26] Unknown speaker: The more people you bring me, the more people I can help.

[28:32] Unknown speaker: You said there were too many costs that you have to pay.

[28:35] Unknown speaker: Ah, Lourdes, it's about volume.

[28:38] Unknown speaker: The more people we can help, the cheaper the price is per person.

[28:42] Unknown speaker: That makes sense.

[28:44] Unknown speaker: Volume.

[28:45] Unknown speaker: See.

[28:46] Unknown speaker: And for you, Dominga.

[28:48] Unknown speaker: If you bring me or cinco that I could help, see.

[28:53] Unknown speaker: I will finish the paperwork on your son gratis for free, amiga.

[28:59] Unknown speaker: Like it is.

[29:00] Unknown speaker: We only have $800.

[29:02] Unknown speaker: We really don't have the full thousand.

[29:05] Unknown speaker: I see.

[29:06] Unknown speaker: Well, do you think that you can bring me five or six more customers?

[29:10] Unknown speaker: Oh, see you, Senorita Patel.

[29:13] Unknown speaker: Lourdes.

[29:15] Unknown speaker: See?

[29:16] Unknown speaker: Cinco says.

[29:18] Unknown speaker: Are you satisfied with this arrangement?

[29:27] Unknown speaker: My pleasure.

[29:36] Unknown speaker: Are you waiting for mommy?

[29:38] Unknown speaker: No.

[29:42] Unknown speaker: It's not a she said she would be coming home soon.

[29:46] Unknown speaker: I guess these things take time.

[29:50] Unknown speaker: Doesn't she love us?

[29:52] Unknown speaker: Sometimes I'm afraid that I'll forget her.

[29:55] Unknown speaker: What she looked like.

[29:58] Unknown speaker: What she smiled like.

[30:00] Unknown speaker: Then I remember. I closed my eyes and I could see her. It's the place I feel safest. I asked Abuela how she left the other day. She said she left by train. What are trains like? So we believe many people die. I know it's dangerous. But mommy did it. I see so many children with their mothers. I want that. Wait. Lure this. She see she she called me to tell me that she needed the rest of the money for my papers. I paid it. I took the money order in yesterday. Was she there? No, but much of there. Mira, he gave me a receipt. Mother de Dios. Yes. Everyone in the apartment complex that is doing business with the Signorita Patel has been getting the same phone calls. People started to wonder what was going on.

Why was she so anxious for the dinero? A group of us went down to her office to ask if she could wait for the money and maybe a little longer. No me digas, no measure. People said she had rented the offices for only a month. Not long. Long enough to take everything we had. She's not coming. I wait. Callate pues. Can't I put opinion? It's not my opinion. It's just a question. I heard Awella Piola noche out of that. It was nothing. But you think Abuela's golpers can hurt me. I guess you're so tough now, see. I am what I have to be. Everything is tough around here. The vecindario, the streets, life is tough. I do what I do for vivir to survive. I finished what I said I was gonna finish. What are you?

My mother? You don't think abuela says she's gonna send you away. Ah, let her send me away. She thinks I want to stay here and take care of her until she dies. Look at her. She might hang on forever. You talk as if you're the only one that hurts. So then you have the right to hurt everyone else around you, including Abuelo who feeds you and gives you a place to stay. Pura mierda. Let her send me away. Everyone abandons me. Mama, Papa Wela. You can be angry all you want. You can hate and you can yell, but I'm a don't yell at me, because you say lo mismo. I I am the same. I am alone. I'm hurt. I wouldn't mind me to. I don't have anyone but you. See, Belky. You're right. As long as we are here, it's just me and you.

Until Mommy returns. Or until we go to her. Negrito! Negrito! I need you to help me today. I'm okay, Marcos. Donde vamos? Tuno, Yossi. I want you to wash my cards while I go do some business. Ah, pero why won't you let me go with you? You have to stay with me. You've been staying with me for a year, Keno. You have always done everything I asked. In many ways. You were more like a like a son. I would do anything for my hermana. See. She was your age. She left your papa. She was alone. Left solita. She loves you. You know. Serrote. Where did you get this nice shirt? You're wearing the shoes, the pants, the cassette player. Sorry, mama. And then so he will someday go to college. And who pays for the high school now?

Listen, Negrito? You have seen the other children picking through the trash dumps. Families lining up to fight for a piece of bread, meat or fruit buried under waste and garbage. Do you have to do that in Hickel? Oh tio Marco, I saw some boys that were that were at the lumber and they were gathering dust. They picked it up, the salad in buckets. They use the money for food, Negrito. What do you do? I wash your cars and I make bank deposits. What do you prefer doing? Living and working with you, tio. I trust you, Negrito. More than anyone. See, the old permite. We will work together for a long time. If you trust me, then why won't you let me go with you? It's much too dangerous. After our security guard was killed last month, I have decided that we cannot continue in the money changing business.

Then why are you changing money? Because this is too much money to pass up. Then let me go with you. No. I'm taking Victor, my brother. Knows how things are done. Stay here. Do as I say. After this. Oh, out of the money changing business. Lure this. Lure this. Lure this. Your brothers, Victory Marco, are dead.

[36:46] Unknown speaker: So I'm gonna introduce our panel and maybe I'm gonna introduce their names and maybe we could take a moment with them introducing themselves and talking a little bit. So on my far right, I have uh I'm gonna go through and give you all your names first and then we'll go one by one and you could do the backup. So uh uh to my far right, the lead actor for this production, Jose Guerrero. Roberto Monico Monico Mo Nico. The accent's really strong in there. This to my right left, Marge Taniwaki. One of the actors, a 40-year member of our company, Angel Mende Soto. And Kiara Chavez. So uh maybe we can just start with a quick intro from you, Jose, and we'll move right to left here.

[37:37] Jose Guerrero: Sure. My name is Jose Herrero, aka Joser. Um I've been acting with Su Teatro since I was 15 years old. Uh I now get to teach uh the education uh classes, the theater classes and the programming for for su teatro uh full circle. Um I'm also the singer for Los Mocochetes, and so you can actually hear us here next next week uh when we perform this part two, and uh our band will be playing uh here as the entertainment. So we look forward to seeing you next time.

[38:06] Marge Taniwaki: I'm March Taniwaki. I'm a uh community activist. I've co-produced a radio show on KTNU for the last 30 years, uh La Lucha Sigue on Latin America and the Caribbean.

[38:23] Arthur Monico: Hi, my name is Arthur Monico, and I'm a PhD student here at the University of Colorado Boulder, and some of my work uh deals with uh historical criminology, specifically with the early uh policies of old war on drugs and how people of uh Latin American descent are also criminalized through the immigration process.

[38:44] Chiara Chavez: Hi everyone, I'm Chiara Chavez, and I am the community development and marketing coordinator for MODIS Theater. We just recently launched the podcast called Shoebox Stories, where our undocumented monologists share their stories. And I'm also one of the people lucky enough to be able to share my story uh about being an immigrant here in the United States, and I get to talk about how I got reunited with my family through a program that the government offered called Advanced Pearl. Um I also have the privilege and uh be blessed enough to work with an organization called Casa de Paz, uh started by Sarah Jackson. And basically, what Casa de Paz does is it goes to the detention center, waits for folks that are coming out of the detention centers, because they have no idea, even sometimes that they are in a different state that uh they were uh um uh brought into.

And we basically will pick them up, orientate them as to where they are, uh if they have phone numbers, help them connect with family, friends, if they need tickets uh for flights or or bus or bus rides, we will help them facilitate that. There's always food in La Casa, and uh there's always a place to stay. So if they need to to to stay in Denver for a while, we also have members that will adopt someone from the detention center for a time being. We'll try to help them connect with their with their attorneys also. They have attorneys. I've had the privilege to meet people from Cuba, Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, from uh Algiers, from Africa. So I'm very proud to be uh be able to uh to work with this organization.

[40:57] Donna Bearsham: And my name is Donna Bearsham, a producer of Destination Freedom. If listeners have any questions, they can email us at DJ at KGNU.org. DJ at KGNU.org.

[41:09] Unknown speaker: So I'm gonna start the conversation uh and probably ask Chiara to be the first one to respond to this this thought I was having. So when I read the book uh initially, and and I think you really it it I see it really in the first segment that we were talking about, is that essentially at the core of this story, it's a story about a boy who wants to be with his mother. And that basic human need, you know, is it has a as a really a big uh a tremendous power in that and it's it's kind of strange on the flip side that that we are in a place where where people in who are come who are migrants who are who are trying to move to another place who are part of the other, right, have to go through this process to prove that they are human, right?

We see this it uh I asked my grandson when he was he was about 14 when we did this Isaac, I said, What's this play about? And he said, It's about Enrique's looking for himself that's what Enrique's's journey is but at the core of this it's a story about and you hear him I just want my mom I'm incomplete unless I can have that so can you talk to us a little bit about that that idea of dehumanization versus telling your stories is a process for humanizing us you know yeah no that's a great question and uh I agree I when I kind of read the book too knowing that I was gonna be in this panel and it was so it was that huge theme of wanting to have a family that's reunited and um it was just very relatable and saddening and heartbreaking but I would say that that is through the work that Modus does I've had the incredible journey myself to kind of be able to find myself to heal by getting to know where I've been and accepting it and I think the contrast in having to go through that journey is the contrast of my own personal journey is the immigration system which is very black and white policies that I feel almost as the politicians are sitting in a room not really thinking about what the actual impact is on human lives and so to be able to tell our stories is empowering and humanizing because we get to tell our truth and we get to not not just say to people, hey no, what what you're doing with your policies are wrong, but here's what the impact is on me for you to decide if it's wrong.

And it's really difficult to listen to a story like Enrique's's journey and not be pulled at your heart. And so it really the piece of storytelling is so important in movements and action building a community, you know com unifying a community because it comes from a personal place of knowing yourself, having to go through the pain of facing your traumas, and then being able to confront that in front of so many people, own that truth, and and be human and be in all that pain and peacefulness at the same time. I think that that makes people remember, yeah, I'm a human being and I've faced a lot myself, and how do we get past this to helping one another?

[45:03] Marge Taniwaki: So it's been an incredible journey for me to be able to present my story, I would say. Um I'm gonna ask Marge to to kind of respond to that as well. One of the things Donnie said uh in terms of why he invited you here, because of your experience in in the camps, and and the same way that there's a similarity in being that separation, being being part of a policy and being and and the dehumanizing process that takes place in that. So I spent the first four years of my life in uh the concentration camps for Japanese Americans during World War II in a place called Montzanar near Death Valley in California and the truth about it I think has never really been brought to the fore uh the U.S. government tried to make it sound as if we were there for our own protection and uh there were many assaults by the guards on on the women in the camps brutalization of those more dissident who were kept in citizen isolation camps deaths that happened because there was no health care for the the inmates so really my purpose in life has been to bring that truth uh into the open so that people will know what this government is capable of doing and keeps repeating over and over again.

This past uh April I was able to go on a pilgrimage to a place called Crystal City in Texas near San Antonio and it was where uh Japanese from Latin America were brought and imprisoned uh we went on from there to uh Dilly Texas where Gio runs uh a uh prison for asylum seekers and uh for the children who have been separated from their parents uh we took uh 25,000 peace cranes that we'd folded we asked the community to to send them so that we could hang them on the barbed wire fence the exact same barbed wire that surrounded us in the prison camps during World War II and we're going on to Washington DC in June of 2020 uh to Lafayette Park across from the White House to uh do the same kind of demonstration to demand an end to the immigration policies that are so unfair and to close down ice uh we need to make sure that uh we aren't uh played off against each other uh the so-called reparations that occurred for um Japanese in the 1980s was really a sham it was a public relations ploy so that the government could pat itself on the back and say that they had actually apologized to us and given us a pittance of money for having taken away all of our livelihood and and more importantly all of our constitutional rights.

[46:48] Jose Guerrero: I'm gonna I'm gonna I have a couple questions for you too this is about um thank you this is this is I'm going wild um the depth that we're getting so one of the things that you start to get the hang of of of in watching the play is Enrique's actually is forced to leave Honduras because he's in trouble with everybody he gets in trouble with with with gangs there and and so this whole piece of criminality that that starts to come with him, right? Um my understanding is he still is dealing with the drug problem, the actual real life Enrique's. He has kids. He doesn't necessarily he sees them, but they don't live with him, they live with Lourdes, right? And so I was gonna I was gonna ask if if you can talk about it, Roberto from that aspect, and then Joseph, perhaps if you could follow up and talk about it in terms of of playing that that that role. And then there's a very special story I really would like you to tell about when we were in LA and the response from the kids there. So can I start with you and you can talk about that?

[49:34] Roberto: Yeah. Uh first of all, let me just say that uh this particular story resonated with me because um I grew up in Los Angeles and my family's also from El Salvador, and uh there are a lot of similarities that went on in this play or in in the book uh that I have also uh experienced. Um my mom moved away first and my father followed and left my older siblings behind until uh my brother and I were born here later. But the criminalization aspect is something that we have to uh remember that gangs that we tend to sensationalize in Central America, that people are fleeing because you're escaping all this fine. We have to remember that it was actually uh United States export. So a lot of gangs that uh a lot of Central Americans congregate together because they were not being welcomed by other Mexicans and other Chicanos and during the 80s. So when they were uh they used to be uh policy of catch and release, now it's catch, detain, make some money, and then release.

But prior to that, now it's um it was just more of a catch-and-release policy. But um unauthorized folks are now commodities, and and I think that going to your point earlier about um regarding uh the politicians in the room, right, not thinking about the lives, but they're thinking about the lives and the ways of how much they could turn dollars over, right? So uh the geo group was mentioned earlier and the geo group has uh has to fill 34,000 beds on a daily basis, and that's filled mainly by undocumented people. Um the criminalization aspect is something that the I would say that the United States and Western media likes to hyper focus on and really really like demonizes uh people like Enrique's in this case, right?

And they say like this, you know, oh they would they would at least I would say um and they they create this narrative that's a good immigrant versus a bad uh immigrant, you know, and it just plays off of each other. And unfortunately some of us on the left play into that narrative too. Um these are policies that we just have to just you know uh just avoid. Um but a lot of like uh so a policy like Mana Dura is something that is was also something that is um operates in El Salvador, but it was a a pol uh law enforcement policy created in the United States that was taken down into El Salvador and um other Central American countries and it's just it basically it translates to like heavy-handed, right?

Um but what ends up happening is like folks ended up getting pit up against each other as good immigrant versus bad immigrant. And we are also complicit in this too, unfortunately. We don't really see it all the time. Um but yeah, this the criminalization aspect is really something that we have to take a step back and not actually demonize um folks like Enrique's who are uh going through some horrible, horrible things um in their lives being separated. Um that's a dehumanization aspect of it.

[52:41] Jose Guerrero: So Jose, can you can you take the second stage on that?

[52:45] Yeah for sure um I think thank you uh that that oftentimes when we hear this story of course our b even in the play right the biggest part that there was a huge part in the seconds in the second act um called las seis deportaciones Enrique's or La Siete I don't know seven seven right I think it's been a while since I read the script but um the seven deportations right and so even then we that was when I mean when we watch films when we watch stories we're naturally kind of uh drawn to those right and to to to those kind of scenes um but I do think that it's interesting to consider and my my father and my my mother were both immigrants and they both came to this country um as undocumented um and I was lucky I was always fortunate enough I guess in in in someone's eyes to to be born in the United States right and so I never I never had to but I I asked myself oftentimes especially after seeing family members who cross over and very quickly become criminalized right how different my life would have been if I didn't have that right and and how this this narrative could have been very much my narrative as well.

I'll jump over to um the the story that Tony wanted me to highlight a little bit about when we went to uh LA we got to perform this this play um as part of the Encuentro um international theater festival right and we were selected as one of the plays that they were going to feature um and we we got to perform for folks you know regular uh paying folks or I guess paying customers for the LATC but we also have to the opportunity, the amazing opportunity to perform for uh I don't know how many schools, but I know that there was at least a few thousand students from the LA, you know, from the city, the county of LA, um, from all over different schools. Uh our theater was ginormous. It was probably three times the size of this theater.

And it was packed where kids could some kids were sitting on the side here. Like it was it was insane. And and the most shocking part or the most touching part for us was that at the end we had a talk back. We had a platica like similar to this, uh, except every single kid in that audience was Enrique's. Um and in fact, uh several times kids stood up and and said, I just came here. I I just arrived two months ago, right? So one of those kids, um, you know, for the for as a character, right? I I grew my hair out as long as it could before it popped down. And and because I seen that in in a few cases, right? I remember my uncle too. My uncle was actually addicted to sniffing glue and paint, so I I related to that quite a bit, but I I um or I used that for for inspiration for the character.

And my uncle's hair, oftentimes it was full of glue and it would stand up and you know I I kind of tried to mimic that and that kid had the same exact haircut and he just he told me I I don't he didn't even speak English. He he's he spoke to me and and and a big thing for me was trying to get the accent, right? And it's a it's a completely different thing than if you I'm I'm from Mexican descent, my parents come from Juarez, Mexico, and we speak completely different than any folk from Central America. And so that was the biggest thing for me, and and he and they thanked us because not only were we telling their story, literally their story, but we were trying to do it in a respectful manner, and we were trying to respect their accent, and they said they never saw a Mexican speak like them.

You know, I I I took that as a compliment, but that was one of the most striking moments from that tour. It was really beautiful moment. We had uh we had a moment where towards the end of the play, and I'm trying to plug the other three stories in here so that you guys come back. But there's a moment in the play where Enrique's has a child and he's in the United States and he's talking to his girlfriend and he says, I want you to come. I he says, I want you to come and join me, and she says, Well, what do I do with the baby? And he says, You're gonna have to leave the baby behind. And the kids started to shout out, No, don't do it. So for us, it was a moment of crossing over. I felt sorry for my cast because they had to go and talk after that moment, right?

But it was it we forget the the cost and human one of these uh human cost and one of the things happens to Enrique's, he sees a kid get run over by a train. So all these great things are gonna happen in the next three shows. So we really like you to come back. Uh Donnie would like me to ask to see if there's any questions or any comments people would like to share with us at this moment, do it segue. Two minutes. So we put it on to this mic. And if not, that's fine too. But I just need you to move quickly. Donnie's trying to coax the audience right now into joining us here. They got a little intimidated. Okay, they're real shy, but you can always ask us later on, okay. Uh so if not, then uh Donnie go ahead, you know, last last comment and then thank our panel for the.

[57:35] Donnie L. Betts: Uh why don't since I I know since I didn't get to Angel, no, you only got like less than two minutes, so you fit you wrap it up. I don't I don't need any more. Uh as I said earlier, I'm working with an organization called Casa de Paz. And I feel if you really want to get involved and and see and help in a very concrete way, helping people unite with their families, is to get involved with Casa de Paz. As I said before, we go we go to the detention centers. Neil, these are corporate institutions. You know, there's an there's one in Texas that's that the that the people there and P and people who get here, they call Layelera, which basically means the freezer, because it's constantly cold, constantly.

They they don't get enough enough assistance in terms of medical or even food. So I remember picking up folks in my vehicle at the detention center, and the first thing one girl gal tells me she's gonna go up there, oh, she wants is a coke. You know, she just wants to taste a coke, a Coca-Cola, you know. And I threw everybody in my car. We went we went to the nearest 7-Eleven. I bought everybody Coke before I took them to the house. But like I said before, you can volunteer with Casa de Paz, you can help us get people to the airport, you can help us uh get clothes, you can help us clean the house. You can help us talk about this. I have the great opportunity to talk in a few churches and to talk to a lot of young people.

Young kids really relate to this. Why what do you mean they haven't seen their mothers? What do you mean? They they get really upset. I just saw a bunch of uh kids last week at the Colorado Community Church, they all made Christmas cards for the detainees. So it's very important work. And if anybody wants to talk to me about it afterwards, you can. Thank you.

[59:33] Donnie L. Betts: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Give the wonderful round of the case. Thank you for listening to Destination Freedom. Please subscribe to our podcast at Spotify, Hot Tunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on Facebook at No Credits Productions LLC.com, Instagram, and Twitter at Donny Betts, and at No Credits Productions LLC, or at Black Radio Days. I'm Donnie L. Betts.