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[0:04] Donny O'Bets: Fresh for your ears, tell everybody. It's the new podcast from the producers of Destination Freedom Black Radio Days. Produced and hosted by Donny O'Bets of No Credits Productions comes The Eclectic. Interviews with difference makers, artists, authors, bold thinkers, people we love who get stuff done.

[0:24] Donny O'Bets: Now, when I first started in theater in Denver, it was with a group called the Denver Black Arts Company, founded by John McCallum. Being one of the original members of the company, I was introduced to and had a chance to work with many, many great artists, including John and James McCallum, their sisters Carol and Sheryl McCallum. Now, we used to always used to say, Cheryl. Well, that's the little sister with the big boys, right? The eclectic had a chance recently to spend some time with the little sister with the big boys, who's now in a very always been an amazing human being. Next up on the eclectic is Sheryl McCallum. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

[1:00] Sheryl McCallum: Thank you.

[1:01] Donny O'Bets: It's great to be here. I'm just so, you know, every time someone mentions Denver Black Arts Company, A, it takes me just way back as a kid. And then it just puts this big smile on my face.

[1:13] Sheryl McCallum: Oh, I love that.

[1:14] Donny O'Bets: Well, Cheryl, you know, we always like to start our interviews out this same way, you know. Share with us your full name, your mama's name, and your mama's mama's name, and also, of course, your father as well, too. And then tell us where you spent your childhood, as we know it's Denver, but this is where I like to start my podcast.

[1:32] Sheryl McCallum: Great. Yes.

[1:33] Sheryl McCallum: All right. My name, my full name is Sheryl McCallum. My mother's name is Willie Helen Carol McCallum. My grandmother's name, her mother's name is Mary Carol Black.

[1:51] Sheryl McCallum: Mary Black Carroll. Yes. Beautiful. Um, so it's Mary Black Carroll. And my does to say my father's name was John Edward McCallum. His mother's name was Mary Ann Anderson.

[2:04] Donny O'Bets: Nice.

[2:05] Sheryl McCallum: Nice. Thank you so much for sharing that.

[2:07] Sheryl McCallum: Jack in Jack Ann Anderson.

[2:09] Donny O'Bets: Yeah.

[2:10] Sheryl McCallum: Okay. I gotta make sure I get it right.

[2:11] Donny O'Bets: Okay.

[2:12] Sheryl McCallum: There you go. I'm sure I'll be corrected by my sister.

[2:15] Donny O'Bets: Yes, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So let's talk about you. Um, you know, you spent your childhood in Denver and you attended South High School, am I correct?

[2:25] Sheryl McCallum: Yes.

[2:26] Donny O'Bets: Okay. All right. When did you first start singing? And then when did you first start thinking about it as a profession?

[2:36] Sheryl McCallum: I first started singing. You know, my mother was a musician, my father sang at church. So my good old St. Luke's CME church, two blocks from where, so like a couple of blocks from where I grew up. And that's where, you know, you start singing. Well, actually, at in the home, because there was always music around.

[3:01] Sheryl McCallum: Um just growing up, we didn't have there there was never not any kind of music. My mother played the piano, my father sang, my brothers, you know, with their bands and everything. There was not ever a time when there was no music. Beautiful. Uh so at the house we sang. I just always remember singing. To me, it was something that everybody did.

[3:27] Sheryl McCallum: Uh until we would go to Texas and you know, mom would say, now go sing something over there, and then now that we're here, our cousins would get mad. Here they come singing again. They can't say. Until I found out that everybody didn't sing.

[3:46] Sheryl McCallum: Oh, okay. You thought everybody sang.

[3:46] Sheryl McCallum: Exactly. It was something that we just always did. Um, so just growing up, it was just it was something that our family did. At church we did. Um, you know, so it was nothing new. I didn't have a particular, I didn't think my voice was extraordinary. It was just, you know, it was good.

[4:11] Sheryl McCallum: Um, and then in the choirs growing up, you know, in school, I didn't make the concert choirs. I didn't read music, so you know, I wasn't in the concert choirs and all of that. But if they had, you know, the gospel choir, you can sing there.

[4:28] Sheryl McCallum: Uh, and that's probably for many reasons. But um, you know, so it was just something that I did. Nice and that most people did. I didn't think about it. I always knew I wanted to sing, and I really wanted to sing opera, because that was my voice type then.

[4:52] Sheryl McCallum: Not knowing that people go to school to learn to sing, you know, operatic and the languages and all that kind of thing. I'm like, well, I sing high, so I want to be an opera singer. Yes. And I loved Leon Teen Price. But uh again, not knowing what went into that.

[5:12] Sheryl McCallum: It's just something that I had. And you know, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna go sing at the Met. Well, no, no, honey, people go to school for that. But I didn't really take it personally or really pursue it professionally. You know, I was just always, always singing.

[5:30] Sheryl McCallum: Was in some gospel groups here in Denver back in the day when they used to have, you know, a lot of gospel groups, and we get together on a Sunday and go to this program and that program. But it was just so enjoyable, and you know, it was a time of fellowship, and then you get to hear other singers and support them.

[5:48] Sheryl McCallum: But I didn't really pursue it fully. Even when I went to college, I no, I didn't even think about it. And again, I didn't take music classes. I went to Texas Southern. So even there, I didn't pursue it as all. They had a gospel choir at the and in college, so that's I sang with them.

[6:10] Sheryl McCallum: And of course in church, uh, where I went. But I didn't really pursue it until I came back and this show, well, The Wiz came through Denver.

[6:21] Donny O'Bets: Okay.

[6:21] Sheryl McCallum: And uh my brother, oldest brother John, was I wanna say he was working somehow in it. He wasn't in the production. I want to say he was either a stage manager something. And so I heard this gentleman, uh, Kamal Scott.

[6:38] Sheryl McCallum: Oh my goodness, he had the blend of the voices that I want. This amazing tenor voice could sing, you know, uh, the musical theater that that uh The Wiz required. But then when he went up into his upper registers, oh my God.

[6:54] Sheryl McCallum: I'm like, that's that's the voice. That's what I'm saying. That's what I want to sound like. That's what I want to get to. Because it was a perfect blend of everything. It was jazzy, it was pop, it was R and B.

[7:06] Sheryl McCallum: And then, like I said, when he went up, baby, he had it was just so astounding. Uh so then John moved to New York.

[7:15] Sheryl McCallum: Um, my oldest brother John moved to New York, and then I went, I would go visit him. And then he knew Kamal, of course, working with the production. So I would take voice classes.

[7:26] Sheryl McCallum: Okay. Uh from Kamal and John started working with him as well. You know, uh doing some music arrangements and things like that.

[7:35] Sheryl McCallum: So uh they had a very good relationship. So when I would go visit John, I would take classes from Kamal. If I went for a week, I'd try to take two or three classes and then come back to Denver.

[7:46] Sheryl McCallum: So I decided to move to New York to try to pursue singing. And my I went with a job in a company here in Denver. I asked if they had they were based out of New York, so I asked if they had, you know, some work there, and they said yes.

[8:04] Sheryl McCallum: So thankfully I went with a job uh that now I'm saying, oh yeah, that was a good thing. Most people do not. Or I don't know. But I did. So I went um with my job on Wall Street.

[8:16] Sheryl McCallum: I was working there and still started to take voice classes with Kamal. And this is when I realized I'm like, oh, oh, I need to learn a language.

[8:27] Sheryl McCallum: Oh, I just can't go and just walk in at the Met. Okay. Well that just ruined my world. Uh but then being with John again, he always tried to get me on stage.

[8:39] Sheryl McCallum: Even, you know, here in Denver at the uh Denver Black Arts Company. So you had said one time earlier that we had spoken that you really didn't want to be in theater.

[8:50] Sheryl McCallum: You just wanted to sing. Let's talk about that.

[8:54] Sheryl McCallum: Yeah, that was it. I was always, you know, whenever John had a production, I would sing with the band. Uh The Hobbit, there was a few before that, but The Hobbit is really the one in my my biggest memory.

[9:06] Sheryl McCallum: I just loved that show. Yeah, so he would he would try to get me on stage. I'm like, nope. I thought actors were the craziest people in the world.

[9:16] Sheryl McCallum: They would come in and just be so over the top, and then you have to circle hands. Before the show and all of that, I'm like, what? These people are nuts. No, they just and it just was something I just no, it just did not appeal to me.

[9:35] Sheryl McCallum: I'm like, let me just sit right here. Just tell me the part I'm singing. And that was that was wonderful. And then there was this one time where someone, one of the performers, got sick and she couldn't perform.

[9:51] Sheryl McCallum: And John said, Cheryl, you have to go and and sing this song. I'm like, no, no. Uh-uh. No, I don't, I don't want to. And basically said, you kind of have no choice. You're the only one that can sing it, so you have to sing it.

[10:05] Sheryl McCallum: Oh my gosh, I just I did not like it at all. At all. I'm like, no, please don't make me. But um he did.

[10:19] Sheryl McCallum: And once I got, you know, I finished the song, and then I still came off stage, and I'm like, uh, no, don't make me do that again. Do not make me do that again.

[10:29] Sheryl McCallum: Uh, but that was that was kind of my first time on stage. And uh, you know, and everyone else seemed to enjoy it, but I'm like, no, just put me back in the band.

[10:41] Sheryl McCallum: Yes, yes, that's why I want to be. You know, slowly I started to relent.

[10:45] Sheryl McCallum: Yes. And then I started to enjoy it more and more. Um still not pursuing it professionally.

[10:57] Sheryl McCallum: Okay. It wasn't honestly until after my brother passed away that it was something that came to me. It actually chose me. I didn't choose it.

[11:12] Sheryl McCallum: Okay. I, you know, metaphysical, whatever it is, I don't know. But it chose me. And then I started taking it very seriously.

[11:21] Sheryl McCallum: And then, you know, going to classes and and you know, nothing professionally. I didn't go to school and all of that, but I started to train. But it was something still, I'm just surprised as anyone else.

[11:36] Sheryl McCallum: Uh I started to get hired more. I'm like, well, I think I can do this. And then I quit my job.

[11:41] Donny O'Bets: You were working on Wall Street, correct?

[11:49] Sheryl McCallum: I was working Wall Street, then I started working for this shipping company, uh, both in New York. And you know, when the job starts to get in the way of your rehearsals, it's like, hmm, okay, Cheryl, you're coming later and later to work every morning because of your rehearsal last night.

[12:09] Sheryl McCallum: So and then I really started to think about it. So I quit my job and uh started willing to really started to pursue um the acting phase of it more and more.

[12:21] Sheryl McCallum: And and that's when I started to do theater. And it's been, you know, ups and downs, of course, as as all of us know, but then you start to learn about oh, I can be in New York and and go and act in Florida.

[12:34] Sheryl McCallum: Oh, because everyone comes to New York to audition. Aha. So starting to know how it works.

[12:41] Sheryl McCallum: Okay. And from there, uh, that's how I wound up in Lion King uh through years.

[12:47] Donny O'Bets: Yeah, just let's let's not throw that out. So let's talk about how this all happened. You were in production of Lion King for quite a number of years.

[12:49] Sheryl McCallum: Let's talk about how that all evolved. Because it was that was a process as well, too.

[13:00] Sheryl McCallum: Yes, it was a process. And um again, just through knowing how the industry works, I was basically just doing regional theater, uh, which was wonderful to me.

[13:13] Sheryl McCallum: I was traveling on somebody else's dime, being able to visit different places, have someone else hire you to come out there and um and perform. So I was working a lot uh in these in these wonderful regional theaters, and Lion King was holding auditions, and so my agent called and got me an audition with Lion King, and this is when Julie Tamore was still auditioning.

[13:39] Sheryl McCallum: So you go in and meet with the casting director, and then Julie would come in um on your on your callback. And so the first time I auditioned, I didn't get it, which is you know, it it's a normal phase, but it's like, man, that would have been good.

[13:54] Sheryl McCallum: Okay. But you continue to work. So I auditioned and I didn't get it, but I was then my agent called and had something in Florida.

[14:05] Sheryl McCallum: So I kept going back to another place in Florida to work. So maybe three months later, she called and said, now Lion King is wants me to audition again, but I had to take this workshop.

[14:20] Sheryl McCallum: And I'm like, well, that makes no sense. I've already auditioned for the show. If Julie Tamer tells me no, that's fine. I don't think I need to do a workshop.

[14:32] Sheryl McCallum: No, I'm not gonna no. Tell them, tell them no. But in the meantime, I had a job. So I would go off to wherever it was, finish up, come back.

[14:42] Sheryl McCallum: And I think they offered the course maybe every few months or something like that, or every four or five months.

[14:49] Sheryl McCallum: Anyway, came back to New York, started working again. Then I think I went someplace else. They offered the class again. I'm like, oh, I'll miss it this time because I'm working, fine. And then I came back to New York, and the agent called again. She said, Cheryl, they want you to come and take the workshop. And they, you know, it's it they pay for it. I'm like, oh, well, you didn't say that the first time. So I wasn't working. That's the information that you need, right? Exactly. You bear in the lead. So I didn't have a job, but I was in town for this for the workshop and still would get paid. I'm like, well, yes. So I took the workshop, and it was a little odd because they didn't really teach you much from the show, if anything, but they just taught you about African language you would speak in the show.

So Zulu, Sutu, uh, Usa, uh Swahili, and just how to make the sounds. Nothing really from the show, which was interesting. And uh again, it could be just saying something into existence, but I said, this is getting on my nerves. If I take this class, I'm gonna get in this show. You know, just being whatever. But it was it was an interesting class. And so the class was over. I got hired again to go out to another part of Florida, and then my agent calls me. She says, Cheryl, how tall are you? Um, five, two and a half. She says, I'll call you back. And so she called me back probably the next day. She says, Lion King wants you to come in and replace someone who got injured. And the thing was, they asked me how tall I was because they didn't want to build a new costume.

I had to fit her costume. Yes. And I think she was shorter than me, but they always leave some room for allowance. And it was supposed to be a two-week contract. And she said, Well, do you want to do you want the contract? I'm like, Yes, two weeks to say I still have a Broadway credit. Yes, yes. I'll take it. And so I just it wasn't, I didn't have to re-audition. This was, I guess, from the workshop of what they saw of me previously. Came in, rehearsed for the show, went in in 10 days. And those two weeks then turned into three months because she had to take a little more time. So it was it was great. A lot of the original cast was still there. So I got to work with, you know, the head of Hatley's Jason Ray's, um, a lot of the original company members.

Gotcha. It was just awesome. Just the most amazing thing ever. And said, you know, to myself, Cheryl, do not be the one to mess up. Don't you go the wrong way. Don't be the one that says, Oh, she must be new. Right. Uh, right. But it was it was a wonderful experience. And so after those three months, uh, that was fine. Then again, I would I would go off to work someplace else. Agent called me again. Cheryl, someone else is going on vacation. Do you want to come in to Lion King? And it was a different track this time for a vacation. Six weeks. I'm like, sure. And then she decided she went off to do another show. So I was gonna replace her while she did this other show. But she decided not to come back 13 years later.

That was so yes, it was like a beautiful experience. I got to understudy Rafiki and go on several times. So it just, you know, that was that was a fabulous experience. And then I I came back home because my mother was ill and my sister needed some help taking care of her. So that was my time at Lion King, and then back to Denver. And come right in and got to work a lot of things at Denver Center Theater Company, Cures Theater, um, doing some fabulous shows. But I want to talk about a show that you created, uh, co-created with David Nehls. Yeah, and that's let's talk about the legend of Ruth Brown. Um you just uh wrapped up not too long ago.

[19:04] Donny O'Bets: It's the mom. Morning, noon, night time, too. It's a my mom. Down at the Denver Center, it's Miss Rhythm based on the very real life and music of Ruth Brown. Now I didn't know anything about Ruth before I went to the show, but by the end, I was inspired. I was entertained. Most of all, I was tapping my toes and clapping my hands. It was conceived and written locally. It's got the feel of an intimate jazz club. And Cheryl McCallum in the lead will knock your socks off. Folks, run, don't walk to check it out. I'm giving Miss Rhythm a perfect five out of five parentes. It was such a great show. An icon of the old rhythm and blues. Let's let's talk about that show. You workshopped at first, and then you put up a full production a little bit later on this past this past fall uh 2023. But let's talk about the genesis of it.

[20:03] Sheryl McCallum: Oh my goodness. David Nails and I first met in New York. Uh he wrote a show, Great American Trailer Park Musical. Yes. And he was doing um readings of it. So this was very early. And so he had auditions, and I auditioned and got uh was reading for the role of Linoleum, uh is her name. And so I read and I did a couple of his workshops, and then he mounted the production uh very successfully it ran in New York off Broadway for quite a while. And then, you know, like most things, you don't see each other for a while. And so when I moved back to Denver, I was auditioning for Denver Center, and I walk in and he's at the piano. So I'm like, wait a minute, what are you doing here? And he said the same thing to me.

I was visiting at the time, and he said, Well, he's he told me he had moved here at that time eight years ago. And so then just being in Denver, uh, David and I, we would, you know, kind of cross paths. Then when he found out I was living here, he was writing a show for Arvada Center. So he asked me to come and read for that. And so I did, and that's how we started connecting again. Uh moving ahead, we did a show at Cherry Creek Theater called My Way, and he asked me, Did I know who Ruth Brown was? And I'm like, yes, of course I know Ruth Brown, because from Black and Blue in New York, and in the original movie Hairspray. I'm like, yes, of course. Uh so he had written a script, he'd written a play, a musical, about her and one of her performances that he saw at La Jazz O Bar in New York.

And it was a woman portraying her, sort of in the vein of like the lady day. Yes, yes. Where you portray her in one of her concerts and then just talk about her life. And it was, I I still love that script. Yes. But I said, David, I don't know if I want to portray her. I'm very, for me, I'm kind of particular. If you portray somebody, you A, I want you to look like them, sound like them, sing like them, all of that. And I think that's what she deserves. I said, can we kind of take this? And if we can still tell her story, but I can can I put it in my voice? You know, so he said, Yeah, let's let's try to put that together. So we still tell her story, we introduce all her all her songs from the Atlantic period, all of that, just go through her history.

And so we worked on it actually through the pandemic. Uh is when we first started working on it. And at the same time, Miners Alley approached us about doing a cabaret because they wanted to keep their audiences engaged and had this theme called a quarantine cabaret. Okay. Where they would live stream. So we put this together enough to do a live stream. Even then, it was just David on piano, me reading out of what I called the book of Ruth. And that's what I called it. It was, you know, had my little music stand in front of me, the book of Ruth. And so we still wanted to develop it more. And this is when Alicia Bruce at uh the galleria, she saw it, and she said she liked it as it was. She says, But I think uh let's see what happens if we try to develop it more.

And so we we did. We wrote more into it, put a few more songs in, and in the summer, they were having concerts in their atrium area. So they said, Cheryl, if you can give us a concert, not of just Ruth, but then insert that into the concert. Right. So did that, and it again people started, oh, I don't know, Ruth Ground. Let's talk about her some more. So it started to get more buzz. Gotcha. And so then that's when they we did a two-week. She said, Let's see what we can do with a two-week workshop of it. So David and I worked on it some more. And then the galleria, we had two weekends. That got amazing response. And that's when she said, Yes, let's let's see if we can get this in here for next fall.

So we we started shopping directors, and we got Kenny Moton who came in and yeah, just wonderful, and just lifted because David and I, you know, you could take things so far, and then it's like, well, I don't know what else to do. And Kenny came in and just I mean flushed it out, and that's when you know it was already decided that we would do the production, but how? So it was just one of those wonderful things that you know the galleria took interest in and provided for us with local artists here to be able to create something and bring it into a full production, and so we said they you know they took a chance on us because you normally those shows they're book shows, they're you know, proven shows.

And so for them to take this wonderful chance on these, you know, local artists and this show that really has not been done anywhere. Right. So it was something that they felt strongly about and and that we worked on very hard. It was such a wonderful moment for us and turned out to be a wonderful success on their end and our end as well. Perfect. So we're it's something that we're so proud of.

[25:56] Donny O'Bets: And um, when her family came, her son came and her nephew came, and they were just blown away.

[26:02] Sheryl McCallum: Yes. They said you did mama proud. There you go. So which I love that. I love that.

[26:10] Donny O'Bets: Yes. What's next for you, Cheryl?

[26:12] Sheryl McCallum: Oh my gosh, this is something else.

[26:14] Donny O'Bets: You're directing now. What is this?

[26:18] Sheryl McCallum: There you go. Yes. Uh actually, last year I directed Akeelah and the Bee, this play at University of Northern Colorado.

[26:24] Donny O'Bets: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[26:26] Sheryl McCallum: Again, they just someone just asked, and I said, Well, I don't know, but yes.

[26:33] Donny O'Bets: Uh so uh I don't know, but yes.

[26:37] Sheryl McCallum: Yeah. Oh, I and again it's something that, you know, I a direction I never thought about. But expand, grow, learn. We never stop learning. Never stop learning. And so that's what's next for me. So we started been doing the preliminary meetings and things, and we start in earnest in uh January. And then uh we're looking to continue with uh Miss Rhythm. There's some things that we're trying to keep in the works and some theaters that are interested. So we haven't heard the last of that one. It's been a beautiful ride, and just things, you know, keep yourself open to the unexpected.

[27:18] Donny O'Bets: Yeah.

[27:19] Sheryl McCallum: Um I love that. And yeah, so that's kind of what happened to me.

[27:22] Donny O'Bets: Miss kind of been your life story, hasn't it? Keep yourself open for the unexpected, and uh, you know, yeah, you never know what when that door opens that you step right on in and um take advantage of it.

[27:34] Sheryl McCallum: So absolutely. I know I'm long-winded, Don.

[27:37] Donny O'Bets: Yeah, I can just talk.

[27:39] Sheryl McCallum: It's all good. It's all good. I love it. I love it. Thank you for sharing with us your part of your journey.

[27:44] Donny O'Bets: And the journey continues on.

[27:46] Sheryl McCallum: And thank you for this. I mean, the opportunity and even asking me. I just I just appreciate so much that I'm considered someone that gets something done.

[27:55] Donny O'Bets: Oh, um, but again, it just comes from all these wonderful years of observing these wonderful people that that I've had the opportunity to see and learn and grow from.

[28:06] Sheryl McCallum: I love it. I love it. We're gonna wrap this up, and we've been such a joy to speak with you. Thank you for sharing with us your part of your journey.

[28:15] Donny O'Bets: And the journey continues on.

[28:17] Sheryl McCallum: Thanks, Tony. Thanks again for having me, and it's been an absolute joy.

[28:21] Donny O'Bets: All right. Be well.

[28:22] Sheryl McCallum: All right, you too.

[28:24] Donny O'Bets: It's been big fun speaking with Sheryl McCallum, catching up on all her doings around the scene, music scene, dear to the scene, and so on and so forth. Again, thank you so much, Cheryl. I appreciate you. Now, keep up with Destination Freedom Black Radio Days They're Collected. We'll be bringing more interviews, podcasts, audio dramas, so on and so forth. I'm Donnie Beck, your host and producer and director. Remixed by Reese. Here we go, Reese.