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[0:04] Donnie Betts: Fresh for your ears, tell everybody. It's the new podcast from the producers of Destination Freedom Black Radio Days. Produced and hosted by Donnie Betts of No Credits Productions comes The Eclectic. Interviews with difference makers, artists, authors, bold thinkers, people we love who get stuff done. Our guests are Marla and Angela Gibbs, mother and daughter, who are both legends in multiple areas of entertainment.

[0:33] Donnie Betts: Marla Gibbs is an American actress, singer, comedian, writer, television producer, and her career spans over seven decades. She gets stuff done, without a doubt. A lot of people might know her from her role as Florence Johnston in the CBS sitcom, The Jeffersons. But she's done so much more than that. She's constantly working. She's working even today, Olivia Price in UBC's daytime drama, Days of Our Lives. Hope you enjoy.

[1:04] Donnie Betts: Welcome to the program.

[1:06] Marla Gibbs: Thank you.

[1:07] Donnie Betts: So I am so excited to have you as a legend in the entertainment field. So I start all my interviews the same way. I use my mentor's words, who was Dr. Vincent Harding, who was a colleague of MLK and wrote the famous speech Beyond Vietnam. He used to like to start his interviews this way. Tell me your full name, your mama's name, your mama's mama's name, and where you spent your childhood.

[1:33] Marla Gibbs: Okay, my name is Marla Gibbs, known in the business as Marla Gibbs. My mother's name was Ophelia Renty, R-E-N-T-A-E. She became Princess Kemp in Detroit, Michigan. She became a manager in the latter years of her life. Before that, she was an entrepreneur. She had a men's shop and a restaurant and did so many things. And she was also a light opera singer on radio.

[2:11] Donnie Betts: Wow.

[2:12] Marla Gibbs: Now her mother I never got to know, not even her name. So we went looking for her in New Orleans. Waterproof Louisiana was where my mother was born, and her father, Theodora Kemp, was born, and his mother, I believe, named Margaret, but her mother we never could find.

[2:36] Donnie Betts: So let's start back. How did this all start for you?

[2:40] Marla Gibbs: How did it all start with me?

[2:42] Donnie Betts: Yes, as far as entertainment is concerned.

[2:44] Marla Gibbs: Well, running away from a marriage that was bad, and coming to LA because my sister was here and had talked me into joining her here in Los Angeles, and then we started life all over again. Unfortunately, he found us in six months. And so it started over again a little bit, but then we got free. We started with workshops, a workshop called PASLA, Performing Arts Society of Los Angeles, and a young lady named Talanisha, who was in the TV show Room 22 that people keep confusing with 227. And she was in it, so we wanted to be in it. So we went down, it was on Vermont, and it was a little storefront theater painted black inside, everything was black, the stage was black, the walls were black, and it was just exciting to us.

[3:47] Marla Gibbs: So we had a teacher who was the—we were in the beginning class, so we had a teacher, and that's where we started, and we were so excited that one night after class, we just got up on that stage and stood there and said, "We're up here and we paid three dollars for our clipboard," and that's all we paid, and it was wonderful.

[4:10] Donnie Betts: Wow. Now what is the company? This is the society with Roger Mosley as well too?

[4:16] Marla Gibbs: Yeah, Roger Mosley was in that class.

[4:18] Donnie Betts: Okay.

[4:19] Marla Gibbs: And the person who started, who owned the class or started the class, he got a job in Washington, Van Kyle Whitfield. And he was head of the arts program in Washington DC. So he was gonna divorce himself from PASLA. So everybody in the beginning class had to audition to move up to the advanced class.

[4:51] Marla Gibbs: So Anthony and I, we were moved up to the advanced class, we did our auditions, and PASLA did a piece that was really remarkable. And then from there, because they were arguing about who was gonna be in charge, Roger Mosley was also over at Muffundi Institute, and he talked us into coming over there with him.

[5:18] Marla Gibbs: Okay. And Watts Writers Workshop was there at the time, and they were doing a play that was getting a lot of attention, and so they also did a play and asked us to be a part of it. So Roger was the star of it. Angela and I were in it. Angela was the daughter and I was Roger's mother.

[5:41] Donnie Betts: Okay.

[5:42] Marla Gibbs: So the thing that stands out most to me is we had to have a rat in the play and Angela was definitely afraid of rats.

[5:50] Angela Gibbs: No, no, don't tell that story.

[5:51] Marla Gibbs: I'm telling. One night I sat down, I had a great dark gray sock and some pipe cleaners and I made a rat. And she sat next to me and watched me make the rat and I had some tape I put around the tail, and as soon as I was almost finished, she jumped up and went to the bathroom and locked the door. I said, "You saw me make the rat, you know it's not real." I love to tell that story on her.

[6:26] Marla Gibbs: When you have a fear, you have a fear. I talked her into doing that for her audition since she was scared of rats, to pretend she was locked in the basement and she thought she heard a rat and she couldn't get off the basement. So she did that so well she went right up to the advanced class.

[6:45] Donnie Betts: That's beautiful.

[6:47] Marla Gibbs: Anyway, while we were over at Muffundi, Margaret Avery had a class and they did a play called Does a Tiger Wear a Necktie? And they won a theater award for it. Clint Eastwood came down to see the play and picked Margaret Avery off the stage to be in his movie. So, you know, everybody wanted to be over in Margaret's class.

[7:15] Marla Gibbs: So I went over and we wanted to know if we were as good as they were, 'cause they were really good.

[7:21] Donnie Betts: Okay.

[7:21] Marla Gibbs: So I went over and I joined that class and Ted Manager was there, that's where I met him. Yeah, Art Evans also was there.

[7:29] Donnie Betts: Okay.

[7:29] Marla Gibbs: So wonderful actress.

[7:31] Donnie Betts: Yeah, absolutely.

[7:32] Marla Gibbs: So I did two, three plays there, and when I was doing Gingerbread Lady, I heard that they were auditioning for The Jeffersons. And my agent, who was Ernestine McClendon from New York, she had been an actress and an agent in New York and she came out here to Los Angeles. Meanwhile, I had left the agent that I was with. There were only two black agents, Ernestine and the other one. And the first one, I can't think of her name right at the moment, but I was doing a theater piece, a movie with Roger Mosley and she refused to come down and sign my contract. She said, "I'm not coming out there," in other words, down to the hood. So I was very annoyed with her. So I went with Ernestine.

[8:29] Marla Gibbs: And Ernestine at that time, she had a lot of black actors and she decided that we were not getting our due. So she said, "My actors are like going in a revolving door in and out and not getting any attention." Because I had been in Norman Lear's office before and it was like I wasn't even there.

[8:50] Donnie Betts: Wow.

[8:51] Marla Gibbs: They saw everybody and just walked, talked all around me. So I wasn't enthused about going in there again, but I went in there and this time the Hollywood Reporter had done a full page on Ernestine McClendon and now everybody wanted to see her people. So this time they were paying attention to me.

[9:12] Donnie Betts: Right, yeah.

[9:13] Marla Gibbs: And so I did a character that reminded me of my aunt and my roots in Chicago, my neighborhood, how they acted and talked. So she liked it a lot and then she took me right over to the producers to do it for them. So I did it for them and they liked it. So by the time I got home, I had the job as Florence.

[9:36] Marla Gibbs: Now the other lady was in it. She was supposed to be the maid and it was just a one-time thing for me. But they liked the line that I did, "How come we overcame and nobody told me?" They liked that so much that they wrote something else for me on the fifth episode and invited me back, and then they invited me back for the eighth episode and then they offered me a contract. So I got the part.

[10:04] Marla Gibbs: When I was at The Jeffersons, I was working at United Airlines. I had been there eleven years. So I stayed two more years. So I was doing both The Jeffersons and United Airlines. So I wasn't thinking about Hollywood. I had been in United over ten years and I had unlimited passes. And my daughter was in college so she could go back and forth. So I wasn't thinking about giving up my job 'cause, you know, they have a hiatus in show business where you're off for almost five months.

[10:40] Donnie Betts: Right.

[10:40] Marla Gibbs: I thought, "Hell, I could be working." And then after ten years, I had choice every time we picked, it was time to pick our shifts, I could always get first pick. So I could pick weekends. But I didn't want weekends. I wanted Monday and Tuesday because the show taped on Tuesday and we did our pre-taping on Monday.

[11:04] Donnie Betts: Okay.

[11:04] Marla Gibbs: So I had weekends and I know everybody wanted it, so it was easier for me to trade for Monday and Tuesday.

[11:10] Donnie Betts: Nice.

[11:11] Marla Gibbs: So I had it all figured out. So one day, Nichols Ross and Bernie West came to me and he said, "Do you still have that job?" I said, "Yeah." He said, "We thought you quit. Aren't you tired?" I said, "No." I said, "You ain't told me nothing to make me quit. You got something to tell me?" So they said, "Well, would you take a leap?" I said, "Yeah, if you pay me." So I went, figured my little money and I was embarrassed, but I told them how much I made, which was nothing, and they paid me and I took my 90-day leave of absence and then I decided, "Well, I can only go as far as I stretch one leg if I keep doing this, so I want to take both legs with me." So I resigned from United.

[11:59] Marla Gibbs: And then, of course, I've never been sorry that I did.

[12:05] Donnie Betts: Yeah, you never look back.

[12:07] Marla Gibbs: That's right. So Sweet Jesus Preacher Man was the first movie.

[12:13] Donnie Betts: That was your first film role.

[12:15] Marla Gibbs: Well, we were over at Mafundi and I was in the DMV up on Cold and I heard in Los Angeles that they were casting for a film across the street. So my girlfriend and I, we went over and we told them about our workshop at Mafundi 'cause we thought we were big actors.

[12:38] Donnie Betts: Well, you were.

[12:38] Marla Gibbs: And they came down to our workshop and they ended up hiring Roger Mosley to be the lead. They hired me as his wife, and they hired half the people in the workshop. So obviously they didn't have nobody.

[12:56] Donnie Betts: No, you just were the best. That's all.

[12:58] Marla Gibbs: Yeah, they came out, Sweet Jesus Preacher Man. Came out to be a pretty good movie.

[13:04] Donnie Betts: I love it.

[13:05] Marla Gibbs: I love it. Let's talk a little bit more about your other lives too. Not only have you been that, you've been a producer, you've also been a club owner. You had a club called Marla Gibbs Memory Lane or Memory Lane Jazz Club. How did that come about?

[13:21] Marla Gibbs: Marla's Memory Lane Supper Club actually was the official name. Well, I had a friend who was a musician and he kept saying that he was telling me all about jazz and they were saying jazz was dead. I said, "How could my music be dead?" 'Cause in Chicago we skated to jazz, we danced to jazz, everything was jazz.

[13:44] Marla Gibbs: And uh I said, How could that be dead? So two ladies came to me when I had the workshop on Vermont down the street from where we started is where I bought my first building. And we put our workshop in there, and of course Angela and Shea Wafer were the two that started it. So I was starting the club at the same time. Okay. But two ladies came into that and they said to me, Miss Gibbs, isn't there someplace in Los Angeles where we can take our friends when they come to town? Don't we have anything in our community? And I couldn't answer 'cause my favorite workship my favorite restaurant was the warehouse at the marina. So you even think about going in neighborhood uh other than a little little restaurants, you know.

So I thought about that and um so it was twofold now that I'm working on the Jeffersons, I want to buy this club because in our workshop on Vermont I was gonna put a coffee shop on the third floor. But when the um developer came by he said, No, it won't be good here 'cause the planes are coming over and it's very loud. So my girlfriend and I, she I had a little psychic friend in Hollywood and I went up to see her and she wanted to go see this movie and I said, Oh I want to see that too. So we we drove all around. We could not find that movie. So in the driving it was heavy tr heavy traffic and when we got down to Wilton, Wilton comes into Arlington, which is where I had the club and so I turned on Wilton and I said, You know what?

Let's go down and see OC Smith's thing at the memory lane. So she said, Well okay, so we went down to that and I went in and we decided to go in the restaurant first and get something to eat. And they said, I'm sorry, dinner is over but the chef said she'd be very happy to make you two chicken dinners. So we said, Cool. So while we're sitting there eating, the owner came in and said hi, and I said hi, and he said, What you doing? So I didn't want to tell him I'm getting ready to open a little coffee shop, you know. And he's got this restaurant. So we talked a little bit, and then he said again, Well, what you doing? So finally I said that, and then he said, Well, why don't you buy this place?

I said, Oh, you're not gonna sell this place. He said, I will. He said, But I want setting somebody who's gonna pay me. So I said, Okay, and then he had the little house next door to the restaurant, and uh he said, and I I I'll throw this in too. So I said, Okay, well, why don't I give it a down payment on the house? And then if things go through, I'll just have the house. So things came through, so I had the house and the club. So I just changed it to Marla's memory lane. The name was memory lane, so I just made it Marlowe's memory lane. Yes. And uh started deciding what colors I wanted. So I made it high-end. But that was all from those two ladies saying, why don't we have a place in the community?

And and then the musicians saying jazz musicians weren't getting any work and they weren't being hiring any black musicians, and we didn't have any jazz clubs in the community. So now we had both. He had a restaurant and a jazz club. And then I hired all the top jazz people, and for a while they said I was hiring more jazz people than anybody in Los Angeles. Wow. Wow. And I had all the top jazz players, I love them. Well anyway, that was that was the start of the club. Beautiful. So Asla ran the workshop and I ran the club. I love it. I love it. Why don't we bring in Angela here? Let's talk a little bit about the workshop.

[17:33] Angela Gibbs: So now we speak with Angela Gibbs, daughter of this famous duo. Uh and I mean they've been joining it to hip almost your whole life from starting uh entrepreneurships, uh theater community together, uh film community together, the way I did with with Marla. Tell me your mama's name. Your mama's mama's name and where you spent your childhood. So my mother's name is Marla Gibbs. Um her uh birth name is Margaret Gibbs, or actually Margaret Theresa Bradley. And my grandmother, her mother's name was the Reverend Princess Ophelia Kemp, which is how I knew her. You know, but but it was her name was Ophelia Kemp. And she was a race woman back in Chicago and then especially Detroit, had businesses, had a habitas, lingerie, uh, store, um, really turned around a radio station, WGPR, helped put it back on its feet.

It was it was uh like um at that time a fledgling uh radio station and they were having some issues and she really put it on. It was her idea to bring churches and gospel there, so she helped, you know, revive it. Um she had a theater and as a little girl I remember her letting me work the candy counter and then later in life she um gave her life over to God and w was a preacher. And um there were people that I just remember as a little girl, there were always people in the church sitting to wait to talk to her because she also had a gift as a seer, and I guess she would give advice and you know, she was the kind that could say put a penny in the jar under the window on the left side of the house.

You know, had that um um I guess not New Orleans, but had that uh those roots, you know. Um, but she, you know, I was reading an article not that long ago about her, and there were like over two thousand cars in her funeral procession. So she was well, well loved. And uh and then here um comes my mother, who even surpassed that in terms of the love that she has garnered for the work that she's done. Um, not just as a celebrity who has brought laughter, which we know is medicine to the soul, she brought laughter to millions, but also her you all spoke a bit about her community work and activism, and she's touched so many lives. So uh I was born and raised in Detroit, Michigan, and then when my mother when she planned the grand escape, the great escape from my stepdad, I was her little helper, you know, stuffing suitcases under the bed and things like that.

We couldn't let him know because he was a knucklehead, and um my mother tried to leave him the right way, but he threatened her, so she had to just do what she had to do. So um we left and and moved out here, and uh I'll stop there because I'm sure there's other questions I can tell you where I went to school and all that, but um I'll stop there. Beautiful. No, thank you so much for bringing me up to speed on all those things, all those things. So let's talk about a little bit about your time uh in Detroit. I just had a question that's I wanted to ask people who grew up in Detroit and Chicago, that kind of stuff. What as a child, what music did you listen to? Then we'll get back to the other stuff. What music did you listen to growing up in Detroit?

[21:11] Angela Gibbs: Oh my God. Okay, you know, the music I listened to growing up, you gotta remember I was from Detroit, which I still say is the capital of the country. Detroit, Michigan. They try to give my my city a bad name, you know, but Detroit, it was the I grew up in the most wonderful time to grow up in Detroit. You know, um the in the car industry was doing well. Motown was there. We all wanted to sing, we all wanted to, you know, one day become recording artists. We had a group called the Montellettes, and my mother was our manager. And my mother, she would have us, uh she got us outfits and everything. We would be in the basement, she was teaching us moves, and we kept saying, Mama, we want to sing RB.

She had to sing the boy from Eponema. So we were like Tom and Tan and we had our little movements and everything, and I think we went to the Y. We went to a couple places, you know. Don't mess with Bill. And don't mess with Dill. No, no, no, no. So we had that. But I listened to the funny thing, I listened to R B. I had a little transistor radio. I had the best little um uh uh bedroom set. My mother got me like this French white provincial furniture, and I just remembered bed, had a little canopy, and then I had this little transistor radio, and I would wait for Tears of the Clown, Spokey Robinson. I love Marvin Gaye and Tammy Terrell, of course the Supremes, the Temptations, you know, uh uh all of that, Aretha Franklin.

So I was steeped into the Motown music. And then I started liking the Beatles. And my mother would tease me because I was like, I love Ringo Star. I love and she's like, You are not even gonna be listening to them a year from now. I'm like, Yes, I am. And of course I wasn't, because I was all into R and B. However, little did I know what great songwriters the Beatles also would come. And so later on in life, I actually did listen to the Beatles, or some of their songs at least, you know. But yeah, R and B was the thing. And and and then let me say this, I was the oldest and the girl, I have two brothers, and so I was kind of like mama too. So sometime I would have to cook or heat up the food or clean up a little bit when I came home from school, help my brothers with homework.

So I'd be, you know, I'd say stuck in the house because I had to be there to clean and cook and stuff. And I it was I can say this now because I can't get in trouble. But we were forbidden to play the record player. And back then it w the record player was a piece of furniture, right? Like you it was like nice long piece of furniture and you'd open up the top and then the record player would be inside, right? And my mother had albums, and so the only albums she had were jazz. And so I actually listened to Billy Holiday and Yusuf Latif. Those were the two I re I remember the most. And um, Yusuf Latif, oh my god, I'll have to try to look it up and tell you the name of the song because I still love it.

You know, um, I I'll tell you in a minute. Um, and then um Billy Holiday. And it was, you know, one day he'll come along and and I would sing to the sofa as if they were my well, I was cleaning up as if they were my uh it was my audience. Okay. Oh, the name of the album for you step by teeth was the blue. I remember that. So I play those albums while I was standing up and then put them back before they got home. I love it. I love it. Love scene from Spartacus, that's the name of it. Yes. Blues Latif, Blue Youssef Latif, and the name of the song was uh Love Thing, and to this day, it's on my playlist. That is fantastic. He's one of my favorites as well, too. We speak with Angela Gibbs, who's currently being featured in Not Dead Yet, the ABC hit.

And also you can find it on Hulu as well, too. Also speaking with her mother, Marla Gibbs, who can be seen everywhere all the time in something. Right now, the days of our lives is uh Olivia Price, and also she's been, as you know, she's been on everything you can think of, uh, from her own uh situation comedy, 227. Um, but first I want to speak about your work in theater, and that was Crossroads, uh that Angela with you and um Shea Wafer as well as Marlowe, Crossroads Theater and how important Crossroads Theater was and is theater for young people in order to give them a chance to break into the industry. Can you speak on that?

[26:17] Angela Gibbs: Yes, sure. Uh I'll throw this in because my mother just reminded me back on the singing. My mother had me sing Frank Sinatra's uh Masquerade. No, is that right? Uh hip. No, those fingers and my hair, that's why I am here. This uh witchcraft. And she'd make me sing it in front of all her friends when they come over. So okay, she wanted me to get that out. Um I went to an HBCU and I that's why I'm always a a big advocate of attending an HBCU. Because at those schools, um you feel like you're in class with your uncle, your aunt, your grandmother, you know, someone who cares. And uh I um you know, not to say that you don't find teachers in other institutions of higher learning that don't care, but I've been in those institutions, especially around then where I felt more like a number.

Um and I did not get the the same attention. So being in those schools, uh as I was training, and one of the things I studied was educational theater, um, was what are you gonna do with this education?

[27:22] Angela Gibbs: What are you gonna do when you go back? And I had this idea uh that I wanted to start a theater. So when I came back to LA, I talked to my mom about it, and she was open to it for sure. However, she was on the Jeffersons and she was about to open a club and she just didn't have the time. So she said, Well, let's just wait, we'll do it later. But I was not willing to wait. My mother said, You were the great manipulator. She there was there was uh um a print shop, and the print shop she uh had had purchased this building so that these jazz musicians would have a place to practice and possibly perform. But it housed a print shop. It was on Vermont and Manchester. And so I went in to help them, and along the way I felt myself getting lost.

I was like, This is not what I came here to do. So little by little I was like, can I get a little money to put a dance floor in? Can I get a little money to uh put a little stage up here? Can I get you know my mother's like what's going on here, right? Little by little we I was putting together the theater and um anyway it was just time. It was time. And so as I'm planning this theater out I reached out to Van Tower Whitfield who my mother mentioned earlier was at PASLA, the workshop that we started at. And now he was at the National Endowment of the Arts. And so I reached out he remembered me and he sent me these books and literally these books were were labeled one, two, three, four. So four books really explained from beginning to end how to open a theater.

And I read them I did a market survey I went around and talked to people about starting this theater um I remember having a talking to a a a business consultant at USC white guy who said those people as if I wasn't one of them sitting in front of him those people don't want anything down there but uh an another uh PCP factory. So he and I had words and uh that even motivated me even more but the general idea was that you know you want to make sure that you're creating something that the community needs or wants and there was nothing there to enhance our community in that particular area and and as we know a lot of those did when our communities are marginalized with you know off in a disenfranchised and there aren't parks there aren't boys and girls clubs there aren't things that are are readily accessible to our ki our youth so it was the perfect um it was a perfect time and a perfect location so I called my girlfriend who I went to s uh college with at Howard University Shay Wafer and uh my name was Utamu at the time and um I called her and said hey I want to open a theater would you come help me and she was like yeah you know she was working at a clinic and she was like uh I am not I'm done with this you know and so she was into early childhood education so she came over I had laid out the plan I laid out the the format and kind of built the structure and then I ended up being the one who had like the vision like let's try this let's try that and she was the perfect um partner because she was well how we gonna do it you know that Virgo how we gonna do Angela how are we gonna get that done right so we gotta do one, two and three.

[27:28] Angela Gibbs: And um and I talked to my mom and my and and you know of course having her name her being so popular on TV and her financial support you know um we were able to open the doors um when we first opened the door Shay and I cried because nobody walked through them. We were like this is we failed you know we had it all cleaned up we had a dance floor we had um some acting great acting teachers but little by little people started trickling in the word of mouth started happening and then you know I had the idea of having recitals so that you know the parents could see what we were doing, but then also uh and then we had adult classes. We asked for um a gentleman named Ed Cambridge who my mother that was her suggestion.

She said, why don't we try to get Ed Cambridge? Ed Cambridge was at the uh Cambridge um Kilpatrick School at the time, but it was starting to fold and Ed had been a stage manager and then later a director and he had worked with some of everyone from uh Isabel Sanford to Billy How Billy um D. Williams to uh Roxy Roker. I mean they all had such respect for him. And so he we didn't know this at the time. He was taking the bus from Hollywood this older gentleman and coming down to the hood to Manchester in Vermont and teaching the adult classes. So we started doing the recitals and people started hearing about it. So you have friends and family coming to see their friends or their children and it started to grow.

And I remember sitting in the back of one of those recitals and thinking if we just charge five dollars, you know ten dollars right, we could start a theater. And that's how that the next thing you know we started doing theater.

[32:38] Angela Gibbs: That is fantastic. I love that story. It's incredible. That's how it starts and and here's something interesting um Donnie I want to just share real quick Shay and I would learn later as we you know we were writing grants I learned listen we did everything from uh clean the toilets to pop the popcorn to purchase the the um concessions to you know hiring the director choosing what work we were gonna do I mean everything you know when we were young we had no idea how crazy we were we were doing it all right and writing the grants and what I learned during the grant writing period was that there was another crossroads in Jersey and then I learned that there was Jamandi Theater in Atlanta. Yes. And uh and then there was a St. Louis Black Rap.

And well and we all realized that we all were starting around the same time. So there was this collective consciousness among uh among uh you know in the universe that you know was birthing theater that represented our culture, our voice, uh, around the country. And I just so glad that I was obedient and felt it and caught it and and was part of that movement.

[33:47] Donnie Betts: And and and listen, and you listened, you know, that this is what needs to be done. This is a void that's need to be filled, and you guys stepped into that void and filled it. So I I applaud you so much for doing that.

[34:00] Angela Gibbs: Thank you. We speak with Angela Gibbs and Marla Gibbs, uh the Gibbs. They're both a legend. The Gibbs girls. They are both legends in uh in the entertainment industry. Currently, uh Angela can be seen in Not Dead Yet on ABC and Hulu, and Marla can be seen on uh Days of Our Lives, uh NBC Daytime Drama, and uh also movies coming up for her as well, too. Um working for more than seven seven decades actually in this industry. There's a story that I've read from time to time about you giving some hard love, tough love to Regina King on uh 227. Would you speak about that?

[34:38] Marla Gibbs: Oh yeah, it wasn't hard love. It was hard to do. It was just advice. For example, she was her mother had her in public school the whole time she was on the show. She she was in regular school. And so the kids, you know how jealous kids can be. They thought the way we dressed her on the show was doofus. And so she said, the kids say we d we look doofus, and so she was a little upset. And I said, Listen, do you want to be on the side talking about the people on the show or do you want to be on the show? So she decided, yes, she wanted to be on the show. I said you're not dressing this way because you want to. You're dressing this way 'cause your mama makes you. I said, now we can have an argument about it on the show if you want to.

I said, but no honey, you can't pay attention to what other people are saying. This is a business. I said now when you get too old because you you start dressing like you're too old, that's the next thing you know, they'll send you a butt off to college and then you won't be on the show anymore. So she came, she said, does this look so old? She started showing me on her clothes. I love it. I love it. That's beautiful now she's the Academy Award winner.

[35:53] Marla Gibbs: I looked up to people like Via Richard. I I did a movie called Christmas dreams with her and I was so impressed with her because we went to the set and it was burning up and they had her in this overcoat and everything else and they gave her the wrong time so she's sitting out in the sun and they were apologizing apologizing. She said no it's fine. She told herself it was winter time and her whole being accepted that she had such a strong strong mind. She she started uh theater called theater of being and everybody who joined that theater was just amazing. So I had my mind my eye on people like that. I never thought of myself even being in that same category.

[36:46] Donnie Betts: Let me ask this question of you both. You both are known for your activism. Why is that important? And then in that can you talk about racial justice in this country when it comes to the arts and people that look like you?

[36:59] Marla Gibbs: Well, it's always important to to look for truth. And uh I think that's what we look for. So when you say activists, like I get letters from the police department and one police chief in particular who happens to be black, but my thing that bothers me is they never admit that anything went wrong on their end. And I saw I wrote him a letter, and I said, you know, you've made some mistakes. What I want to hear you say is you made some mistakes, and that you know, you regret those and you and you're trying to make changes. Not make the other people always the the bad ones, they're the enemies, they're they're mistaken, you know. But every group does that. In school, the teachers do that. If teachers is terrible in the class to some of the students, the teachers take take up for her.

They never admit that she's wrong. Now the students, they admit never admit that they're wrong. It's always the teacher. So every group does it, but until we stop doing that, things will never really change. So finally, when George Floyd was killed, they they found the man guilty and put him in jail. That's the first time that happened. That's right. Because they're never wrong. But that's not true. So when you're an activist, you're looking for truth, really. You're looking for what's real, you're looking for what's relevant to your people, what's not happening. So they're saying that black lives matter is the reason police are being killed. The reason they're saying black lives matter is because they never have.

All all lives matter. Police lives matter, white lives matter, Asian lives matter. Everybody's life matters. But they've never, never made black lives matter. Everybody talks about everybody but us. So now finally we say black lives matter. Now that's a crime. No, they're they're being activists. And every time I look at the ladies, black lives matter is all over the floor. And I love it. Because we've w you know, I don't love that every time we march somebody has to go out and loot and and break in a store and all that and give it a bad name. I don't like that. And what you what you do with the shit you you steal anyway. What you gonna do with it? You know. Can't wear all those shoes. You can't watch all those TVs, can you? Just absolutely crazy. And I think that we should say something about it to them.

[39:42] Angela Gibbs: Absolutely. Absolutely. I totally agree with that. We should say when we march, you either march with us or stay home.

[39:50] Donnie Betts: Yes.

[39:51] Angela Gibbs: I think that should be the new theme. Angela, you wanna comment on that?

[39:55] Angela Gibbs: Oh yeah, I I you know, first of all, everything that my mother everything that my mother just said about activism and why it's important, I totally agree with. And I remember as a young girl dating a uh guy, uh I guess I was about seventeen or eighteen, and he got beat by the police, his father was knocked down when he came out, the mother was knocked down. And my mother back then they were distributing flyers uh and I was when I was eighteen. Um, uh, they were distributing flyers, um on police brutality. And uh y you know, um activism and it's and listen even starting a a a club in the community a theater in the community you know uh protesting fighting police brutality all what we're doing really is we're really just working on changing the narrative that's been forced upon us that we don't we're not worthy uh of a good life we're not valued you know we're we're marginalized as we are um you know our education is less than a substandard.

[41:00] Marla Gibbs: Uh I remember when my son was uh growing up, you know, we had the wherewithal and thanks to my mother um put my son in private schools and things like that and we know public schools as well but we mixed it up we were able to mix it up and really have some say over his education whereas his best friend was a public school kid and that was that. And when they would get together to do homework his friend wouldn't have books so he could read ahead. They would give him a handout. They were not allowed to carry books home. So there was no reading ahead, studying uh you just got what you got, you know, in school and that and that's by design and we know that we know that we are being educated with the curriculum of teaching our children to serve, not lead, serve.

And so someone has to fight for our rights to be able to express our brilliance and our genius and to you know have a life plan for ourselves and our generations to come. And so uh from police brutality to opening a place where people are proud to come and have dinner and hear their own music. And my mother like sh uh my mother had mentioned, people they really applaud my mother for, you know, making sure that jazz musicians continue to work and had Muslim security. And then she also had Muslim security and no one ever broke in and no one ever tried anything. And they were like, Why do you have Muslim security? And you know, uh police and them necessarily weren't crazy about it, but they didn't mess with her and them.

[42:37] Angela Gibbs: Yeah.

[42:37] Marla Gibbs: Oh, she said they did mess with them.

[42:39] Angela Gibbs: Okay, so I have to tell you that mess with the FOI?

[42:45] Marla Gibbs: Yeah, I had Muslim security and they would walk people to their cars, and I remember one time a man tried to take a lady's car and had chased her up. She ran up to a porch that wasn't her house, and uh he went over and talked to the guys about leaving her car alone and along comes another car to pick him up. So in other words, they had already cased and they were already ready to take her car. So they went off and so I admired them greatly. But one night all the police came to the back door and they said, Miss Gibbs the police out there, and Mohammed was at the back door, and I know he wasn't gonna give in whatever. They said that they had they were given a report that someone dressed just like him had committed something.

And so they they were asking him questions, and he was saying, I know my rights, and I said they're gonna knock him down. So I went outside and got between them and I said, What is it, Arthur? What's the problem? They said, Well, we got a report that that someone was dressed just like him. So I said, Well, no one went in. I've been in here. I said, Did you see anyone, Mohammed? He said, No, no, ma'am, no, I didn't. So I said, But you're welcome to come in and look. So I took the police in. They were they didn't know what else to do. And they looked around the club and then they came back out and they drove up and they said, You know, Miss Gibbs, you're gonna get tired of y you're not doing the right thing. In other words, I was doing not doing the right thing by having the Muslims, you know.

[44:27] Angela Gibbs: And then I was invited to s to come down to someplace. Now the spirit tried to help me, took my keys, I couldn't find my keys, so I couldn't I couldn't drive. They sent a car for me. So I went. And what I said was, now we have to understand that when people are writing, they're writing about their experience. You're not in it. You're not the person that lived next door. They're writing about their neighbors. I said, and if you were writing, you would be writing about your people. They wouldn't be in it. Right. I said, so you can't be too mad because people are doing what they're writing about their lives. Yeah, they're living and right. So that turned into somebody saying what I said was very derogatory.

And I lost money. I was trying to open the vision and they didn't support me because they thought I was against the Jewish people and the writers. And then the writer of the article called me up. He said, Miss Gibbs, I know you didn't say that. He said, He said, And that's not what I wrote. What I turned in, they turned it into something else. The writer told me that.

[45:44] Marla Gibbs: Wow.

[45:45] Angela Gibbs: Okay. And then I was at an up with and a white guy walked up and he said, Miss Gibbs, I know you didn't say that. I know you didn't. I said, Thank you. But I didn't get no money.

[45:56] Marla Gibbs: Yeah.

[45:57] Angela Gibbs: Yeah. Because people will twist your words, that is for sure.

[46:01] Marla Gibbs: Yeah, they do that now. So you just cannot believe that they think you're so interested in the negative.

[46:07] Angela Gibbs: Yes.

[46:07] Marla Gibbs: Everything is negative. I'm not interested in hearing all that stuff about people in Hollywood. And half of it is a lie anyway.

[46:16] Angela Gibbs: Right.

[46:16] Marla Gibbs: Right. It's terrible. The things that we do just to make some money, you know.

[46:23] Angela Gibbs: Well, everybody's after that. You just said it right there. Everybody's after the money. So that's why they have even more outlets now, you know, between the different social media platforms that people use. They are still all about the money and trying to make it. But they don't realize that we're all one. When I say that, I know that's hard to believe when we look at each other, but we are all one. We all came from the same source. We're one with God and we're one with each other. So when you're killing a white person because you think they white, that could have been your granddaddy in your last life. You know? And I said, the way you can tell is you need a kidney transplant. And nobody in your family is a match.

And nobody that they know is a match. And none of your friends are a match, and nobody that they know is a match. And you're busy looking around and you're running out of time. And here comes a black man who doesn't look anything like you, a whole different race, and he's a match. I said, Now how does that happen? So the people just start laughing. Because it's so true. Hard trend, we're interchangeable. Except for our looks. And of course, that's getting to the point it's interchangeable. We all these black girls with all this long hair. Well, I'm laughing because I'm a kidney donor. So my goodness. Yeah. I'm a kidney donor. Okay. That's why I'm laughing. But it was for my sister, so you know, we did look at it.

And that was my grandson's friend needed a kidney. He was in a hospital, and this white guy heard that he needed the kidney and didn't even know him and came over and offered his kidney. Wow. And he came out of the hospital with a kidney. See, that's that's my person there. That's my personal. Those are the kind of stories we could tell. Yeah. And those are the kind of stories we should tell about the policeman too.

[48:24] Marla Gibbs: Yeah.

[48:25] Angela Gibbs: Yeah. There's a white policeman that took this young black man and just went on to help him do everything. But we never hear that.

[48:34] Marla Gibbs: No.

[48:34] Angela Gibbs: I don't believe we should defund the police. I don't believe that we need to get rid of the police. The first thing when something happens, what do we say? Police, help, police. You can't say that no more. Who are you gonna call? No, they just need to be um refocused.

[48:58] Marla Gibbs: Refocus.

[48:59] Angela Gibbs: Some of them need to be refocused, and some a lot of people. Yeah, I tried to tell the young black men to become policemen so you can police your own neighborhood. They would be a policeman. If you become a policeman, you can police your own neighborhood. If enough of you become policemen. Otherwise you gotta join in where they want you to join in. You know?

[49:20] Marla Gibbs: Yes, yes. And I remember in Detroit they used to call start calling the police pigs. Well the police started recruiting people from the South to come in up and be policemen. And then they say they got their gang. Now you got a gang we got a gang. That's not any way to solve a problem.

[49:39] Angela Gibbs: So true.

[49:40] Marla Gibbs: But that's what's been going on. Yeah you really can fight fire with fire. That is so true.

[49:46] Angela Gibbs: Yeah.

[49:48] Marla Gibbs: Right. Well let me tell you the Gibbs this has been quite incredible. You know I said I want to you know take up all your time and I pro keep my promise for that. This has been absolutely amazing speaking with Marla and Angela Gibbs to mother and daughter team. Uh they are definitely a team from forming theaters uh and doing movies together and doing TV shows with Angela producing and uh creating 227 and all the starting in it that was back in and I want people to know that Angela is not following in my footsteps. I'm following in Angela's footsteps. All right. Angela was and had the movies before I while I was still in the basement doing plays she was doing Cleopatra Jones the movie. Yes. And then she was on Sanford and Son and I went to see her perform in Sanford and Son I wasn't on TV yet.

[50:40] Angela Gibbs: You yes you're right you're right.

[50:42] Marla Gibbs: But then she decided the acting was not relevant because she was getting ready for the black powerful for the revolution learning to shoot a rifle and all that. And change her name to what was your name.

[51:02] Angela Gibbs: Ioka.

[51:03] Marla Gibbs: Okay. I said I named you Angela. I would a little bit of fly on the wall with those discussions. I know. She came back to Hollywood and don't know her. But she would have been a big star if she had stayed.

[51:20] Angela Gibbs: Yeah.

[51:21] Marla Gibbs: Yeah. But the thing is of course that's that's happening now.

[51:24] Angela Gibbs: Yeah, absolutely it is.

[51:25] Marla Gibbs: You know, I mean, you you have someone, your daughter's been a, you know, uh acting coach to major stars and making all major movies like Birdman and things like that. And then producing Broadway. I remember Checkmates. Um when it was on Broadway. Yeah, yeah. That was Denzel and Ruby D, correct? Yeah, that's right. Um D and Denzel uh on um Checkmates.

[51:48] Angela Gibbs: Yes on Broadway.

[51:49] Marla Gibbs: Oh, on Broadway, yeah. I did it in LA. Yeah, Mama did it too, and so did Roxy Roker.

[51:54] Angela Gibbs: Okay, okay.

[51:55] Marla Gibbs: You're right. Okay. So that's what I mean. Yeah, Red Williams. You you guys have been doing it and doing it well. For quite some time. So uh that was good. Yeah, I appreciate your time. And um, we'd like to do this again if we could, because this is not enough time. This needs to be a part two, so but I'm gonna let part one be wrapped up for now. We're speaking with Marla and Angela Gibbs, uh, the dynamic mother and daughter team, uh, the entertainment world, activism world, uh, theater world, you name it world, writing, producing, uh, coaching, uh, and just being all around good citizens of the world. Uh, as Oscar Brown Jr. says, they know how to do a revolution of the human heart. So again, I thank you. Thank you for being our guest on Destination Freedom Black Radio Days, The Eclectic. And I hope you're going to be able to do that.

[52:47] Angela Gibbs: Well, thank you for having us.

[52:48] Marla Gibbs: Oh, my pleasure.

[52:50] Angela Gibbs: My absolute pleasure. I'm so so excited to do this.

[52:53] Donnie Betts: Any final thoughts? Anyone you want to say out there?

[52:56] Angela Gibbs: No, I think you covered it. It's just grateful that uh I have a mother who um never ever asked me to go get a job that told me it was okay to believe in my dream.

[53:09] Donnie Betts: Fantastic. I love that. We should end like that. Stick with the dream. Follow your vision. Thank you again.

[53:17] Angela Gibbs: Okay.

[53:19] Donnie Betts: Bye bye. I'm Donnie Betts, and this is the Eclectic. It's produced by Donny L. Betts and No Credits Productions LLC. You're listening to The Eclectic. This series is mixed by Maurice Smith, aka Reese. Please subscribe to our podcast at Spotify, Radio Public, iTunes, Stitches, or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on Facebook at No Credits Productions LLC dot com, Instagram, on Twitter at Donnie Betts, or at The Eclectic the Podcast. I'm Donnie Betts. Talk to you soon.