This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Elliott Mattox: Hi friends, Elliot here.

[0:01] Elliott Mattox: Before we start this week's episode, I just wanted to tell you guys about something really exciting that's happening this week.

[0:07] Elliott Mattox: As you know, Caleb and I both attended Oklahoma City University, and while we were there, our lives were changed by OCU NYC's spring break program.

[0:17] Elliott Mattox: It offers OCU students the chance to come to the city and work and study with industry professionals for an entire week for next to nothing.

[0:27] Elliott Mattox: It was an incredible experience, and the things I learned there were completely invaluable.

[0:34] Elliott Mattox: That week is coming up, and in order to help keep offering that opportunity to OCU students, there is going to be a benefit concert on Tuesday, March 13th at 8 p.m.

[0:47] Elliott Mattox: It's called Three Queens, and it's at the Green Room 42, and all the proceeds from this concert are going to go toward helping OCU NYC keep doing what it does for members of that community.

[1:04] Elliott Mattox: So I'm gonna be singing.

[1:06] Elliott Mattox: There's gonna be lots of really amazing people singing some really fun stuff, and we'd love it if you could come on out and support.

[1:15] Elliott Mattox: Links to the ticket information will be on all our social media platforms.

[1:19] Elliott Mattox: But if you'd like to, you can go to the greenroom42.com and you'll be able to find a way to get tickets there.

[1:27] Elliott Mattox: Please come out and support us.

[1:29] Elliott Mattox: It's gonna be a blast.

[1:30] Elliott Mattox: And I may or may not be singing Kesha.

[1:33] Elliott Mattox: All right, please enjoy this week's episode.

[1:41] Elliott Mattox: We'll take a glass together.

[1:44] Elliott Mattox: And we will lift it up to the good one!

[1:49] Elliott Mattox: And as we're lifting it as well, we will most sincerely stay.

[1:54] Elliott Mattox: We'll take a glass together.

[1:57] Elliott Mattox: This is Equity One, Broadway's Happy Hour.

[2:01] Elliott Mattox: Pour yourself a drink and join us as we chat about life, theater, and everything in between.

[2:07] Elliott Mattox: I'm Elliot Maddox.

[2:08] Caleb Dicke: And I'm Caleb Dicke.

[2:09] Elliott Mattox: Join us for your Equity One.

[2:15] Elliott Mattox: Hi Caleb.

[2:16] Caleb Dicke: Hi Elliot.

[2:16] Elliott Mattox: Cheers.

[2:17] Caleb Dicke: Cheers!

[2:17] Elliott Mattox: Get in here, special guest.

[2:20] Elliott Mattox: You guys, tonight we are gonna be asking some real questions because our special guest is content madman, crazy person, Broadway's favorite hostess.

[2:33] Matt Rodin: That's me.

[2:34] Matt Rodin: What's up?

[2:36] Matt Rodin: The hostess with the mostess with the most us.

[2:38] Matt Rodin: How are you doing?

[2:39] Matt Rodin: I'm good.

[2:39] Matt Rodin: I'm really, really, really good.

[2:41] Matt Rodin: I'm very happy to be here.

[2:43] Matt Rodin: I'm like so I'm like honored that you guys even like thought to.

[2:47] Elliott Mattox: Oh my god, of course.

[2:48] Elliott Mattox: No, we are so thrilled to have you on our little show.

[2:51] Elliott Mattox: We are enjoying a hard cider.

[2:54] Matt Rodin: I haven't had one of these in a long time.

[2:56] Matt Rodin: Five percent alcohol.

[2:58] Matt Rodin: That's more than I thought it would be.

[2:59] Elliott Mattox: Oh, yeah.

[3:00] Elliott Mattox: Normal.

[3:00] Matt Rodin: In Oklahoma, they couldn't.

[3:02] Matt Rodin: We gotta get you guys like a liquor sponsor.

[3:04] Matt Rodin: We gotta do it.

[3:05] Caleb Dicke: We thought about it.

[3:06] Caleb Dicke: You know, the um I know.

[3:07] Matt Rodin: What is the gaze?

[3:09] Matt Rodin: Um absolutely.

[3:11] Matt Rodin: Absolutely loves the gaze.

[3:12] Matt Rodin: So we need to get like them a little bit.

[3:13] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, yeah, just you know, or even like an Ouija company.

[3:16] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[3:17] Matt Rodin: Or a small, like if you can find a small brewery or a small, like that would that just wants the exposure, you know, to them to a different mark different kind of market.

[3:24] Matt Rodin: Like I just feel like that's what we want.

[3:27] Matt Rodin: We want some like straight.

[3:28] Matt Rodin: We need some like straight, straight brewery.

[3:31] Caleb Dicke: That's why I say look.

[3:33] Caleb Dicke: Look, we're gonna get you a new world.

[3:36] Caleb Dicke: Gaze, honey.

[3:37] Caleb Dicke: Let's get it straight up.

[3:39] Matt Rodin: That's what I'm saying.

[3:40] Matt Rodin: I feel like you guys could.

[3:41] Matt Rodin: I mean, literally, that's why we wanted to have you on the podcast.

[3:45] Matt Rodin: Because you are just seeing like the resident, like kind of like know-how, make it happen.

[3:51] Matt Rodin: You know, that's what you do.

[3:53] Matt Rodin: I'm trying I'm trying, and I am I'm glad that's what is is coming off.

[3:56] Matt Rodin: I'm glad that that's the that's what is getting sent out into the world.

[4:01] Elliott Mattox: Oh yeah.

[4:01] Elliott Mattox: It definitely is.

[4:02] Caleb Dicke: Yes, yeah, yeah.

[4:03] Elliott Mattox: Um we let's start with talking about our weeks.

[4:06] Caleb Dicke: Caleb, how's your week been?

[4:07] Caleb Dicke: Uh good.

[4:08] Caleb Dicke: I've I know nothing about TV and like working on TV, so I do a lot of background work to figure all that out.

[4:14] Caleb Dicke: And I did that.

[4:15] Caleb Dicke: I yeah, I did, I did a lot of that when I first moved to the city.

[4:18] Caleb Dicke: A ton.

[4:19] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[4:19] Caleb Dicke: It's a long day.

[4:20] Caleb Dicke: You're there for like long days.

[4:22] Caleb Dicke: But free breakfast, free lunch, half services bids.

[4:26] Matt Rodin: Calf services take home snacks.

[4:27] Caleb Dicke: Hold on.

[4:28] Caleb Dicke: Now let me ask you a question.

[4:28] Caleb Dicke: I don't hope you don't mind if I ask.

[4:29] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[4:30] Matt Rodin: Are you like, are you sag or are you not?

[4:32] Caleb Dicke: Non-unions.

[4:32] Matt Rodin: Oh my god.

[4:33] Matt Rodin: And they're like, and they are so strict about like the sag eats first and then the non-union.

[4:37] Caleb Dicke: Yes, for lunches, but then for the snack table, I'm always like, they they never know.

[4:41] Caleb Dicke: They can't like sign in a four that says like sag or union.

[4:45] Matt Rodin: I used to eat so much candy.

[4:47] Matt Rodin: Yeah, they had the jelly beans, the um but they started beans?

[4:51] Caleb Dicke: No, that's you guys in Easter.

[4:53] Caleb Dicke: Those are my favorite, yeah.

[4:54] Matt Rodin: No, these are just the um the regular ones because I love watermelon.

[4:57] Matt Rodin: I love the light colors.

[4:59] Caleb Dicke: They're so weird.

[4:59] Caleb Dicke: You love large candy, it's so good.

[5:01] Caleb Dicke: Do you like watermelon like sour batch kids?

[5:03] Matt Rodin: Yeah, those are the best.

[5:04] Matt Rodin: Literal best.

[5:05] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[5:05] Caleb Dicke: So that's I've been doing a lot of extra work, and I am I did like 96.

[5:11] Caleb Dicke: I did th four days in a row.

[5:12] Matt Rodin: You have been exhausted.

[5:14] Matt Rodin: Literally, all he's been doing.

[5:15] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[5:16] Caleb Dicke: But you can see me on Law and Order.

[5:18] Caleb Dicke: You can see me on.

[5:19] Matt Rodin: Oh yeah, girl.

[5:20] Caleb Dicke: I'm like, I'm secretary.

[5:24] Caleb Dicke: Younger, I bet on everything.

[5:26] Caleb Dicke: You can't divorce, I was on divorce.

[5:30] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[5:31] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[5:31] Caleb Dicke: Extra stuff is fun though.

[5:33] Caleb Dicke: It's fun.

[5:33] Caleb Dicke: And so I'm actually learning like the lingo.

[5:35] Caleb Dicke: And now I don't look stupid.

[5:36] Caleb Dicke: Like when I do get my little like feature role, I'm not like, I'm like Well, when you get your waiver, honey.

[5:41] Matt Rodin: Yeah, you get your waivers.

[5:43] Caleb Dicke: That's why I did it.

[5:43] Caleb Dicke: Because I really wanted to be exposed to the set and I wanted to just be around the people.

[5:47] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[5:47] Matt Rodin: It was interesting because I didn't realize like how much of a community the extra like extra.

[5:53] Caleb Dicke: I have extra friends.

[5:54] Caleb Dicke: Yes.

[5:55] Matt Rodin: Oh yeah.

[5:56] Matt Rodin: We all have extra friends, honey.

[5:58] Matt Rodin: Honey.

[5:59] Matt Rodin: I have extra friends for the book.

[6:01] Matt Rodin: It's real, right?

[6:01] Matt Rodin: Like they like this is what like it's people's lives.

[6:03] Matt Rodin: Like, this is what they do.

[6:04] Caleb Dicke: Which is kind of scary, but kind of cool.

[6:06] Caleb Dicke: It depends like how old they are, and like and if you're a union, you can make like you can really, really make like a significant amount of money.

[6:13] Caleb Dicke: Especially if you're working over hours.

[6:14] Caleb Dicke: Like it's it's really crazy.

[6:16] Caleb Dicke: It's kind of it kind of gets to a thing where like if you're a union, you can do like one job a week and like pay extra rent and like live in the city.

[6:25] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[6:25] Matt Rodin: So um, do you uh find now, because I have a problem now where like I'll watch movies or television shows.

[6:33] Matt Rodin: And you only watch the background.

[6:34] Caleb Dicke: That's all I watch.

[6:35] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[6:35] Matt Rodin: Like, no, no, it's a problem.

[6:36] Matt Rodin: Like it is, it's a problem because I went like I go and see Black Panther and like love Black Panther, but like I'm sitting there giggling at like the scene that's going on with the actresses behind me because I'm like, oh my god, there's no or like when they're dancing and there's no music play.

[6:48] Caleb Dicke: I love it.

[6:50] Matt Rodin: So I was on I was on the dudes and we were in this club scene, and everyone's like bumping and grinding to silence.

[6:56] Matt Rodin: Yeah, silence.

[6:56] Caleb Dicke: But yeah, so you can't have music.

[6:57] Matt Rodin: I learned that from Unreal.

[6:59] Matt Rodin: They they played the music for like two seconds.

[7:01] Matt Rodin: They're like, here's the beat, cut, and then everyone just you have to keep going, and no one's talking.

[7:06] Matt Rodin: And you're just like, I'm not familiar with that.

[7:09] Matt Rodin: But that's why I it kills me now.

[7:11] Matt Rodin: That's what I have to watch when I watch TV shows and movies.

[7:14] Caleb Dicke: Even like a pause is like it's so similar.

[7:17] Caleb Dicke: Okay, what would tell tell the children what was you what lesson did you learn this week?

[7:21] Matt Rodin: I learned that you have to you have to even walk quietly because we were doing a uh this new pilot called compliance.

[7:29] Matt Rodin: I don't know how much I can say.

[7:30] Matt Rodin: But we were in some office space, and the my shoes were too loud.

[7:36] Matt Rodin: Like when I was walking, I was but like you can't like walk on tiptoes too.

[7:39] Matt Rodin: With your shoes or were they costumed shoes?

[7:41] Matt Rodin: They were my shoes.

[7:43] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[7:44] Matt Rodin: They were really cute.

[7:45] Matt Rodin: They're one of my favorite like wedding shoes.

[7:47] Matt Rodin: They're brown, really like, but they were just a little bit too loud, you know, stomping around too much.

[7:52] Matt Rodin: But I had a story.

[7:53] Matt Rodin: I had to go check the fax machine, bring it back to my boss, deliver it to the other guy, go to the bathroom, and then go back to my boss.

[7:59] Matt Rodin: Office job.

[8:00] Matt Rodin: But you know, one time the paper coming out of the fax machine was blank, and I said, This fucking fax machine is broken.

[8:06] Matt Rodin: It's broken.

[8:07] Matt Rodin: And so I had to be like, oh shit, I gotta go give it to my boss.

[8:09] Matt Rodin: Like, what do I do?

[8:10] Matt Rodin: I always like committed, you know, like more like environmental.

[8:13] Matt Rodin: Whenever I see like an extra like walk by on camera, like because they pass by whatever whoever the principal is, I'm like, that person is like so happy because that is a moment to be like they made the shot.

[8:24] Matt Rodin: Right, they're like, uh, yeah, you uh Matt, come here, come here.

[8:27] Matt Rodin: You're gonna walk right here, and you're like, oh, the camera's right there.

[8:29] Matt Rodin: Oh, okay, great, great, great, great.

[8:31] Matt Rodin: Yep.

[8:33] Matt Rodin: I love it.

[8:34] Matt Rodin: So committed, snatch your face.

[8:35] Caleb Dicke: Yes.

[8:36] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[8:36] Caleb Dicke: That was my how was yours?

[8:38] Matt Rodin: Mine was mine's good.

[8:39] Matt Rodin: I've just been like, I've literally been doing nothing.

[8:42] Matt Rodin: Which I haven't been able to do in a while.

[8:44] Matt Rodin: But I got acupuncture, which I'm not sure about everyone.

[8:49] Matt Rodin: Do they put cotton balls and then light them on fire?

[8:51] Matt Rodin: Because I've heard that's acupuncture as well.

[8:52] Caleb Dicke: What?

[8:53] Caleb Dicke: What?

[8:53] Matt Rodin: Absolutely not.

[8:54] Matt Rodin: If they did, they didn't tell me.

[8:56] Matt Rodin: Wait, what?

[8:56] Matt Rodin: I've s maybe I've just seen that in the movies.

[8:58] Matt Rodin: Like where'd I put it?

[9:00] Matt Rodin: Like on your body?

[9:01] Caleb Dicke: No, on the top of the needle.

[9:01] Matt Rodin: They put so the needle like heats up, maybe.

[9:03] Matt Rodin: Oh.

[9:03] Matt Rodin: I don't know.

[9:04] Matt Rodin: It was not a hot needle.

[9:05] Matt Rodin: I was not on a bed of needles.

[9:07] Matt Rodin: Like this isn't fear factor.

[9:09] Matt Rodin: No, like the like the needles in your back and then on the top of the needle.

[9:12] Caleb Dicke: I know what you're saying, but I don't know.

[9:13] Matt Rodin: So it's a hot needle.

[9:14] Caleb Dicke: It's a hot needle.

[9:15] Matt Rodin: No hot needles for you.

[9:16] Caleb Dicke: Mm-mm.

[9:17] Matt Rodin: I could barely take the room temperature once.

[9:20] Caleb Dicke: Love a hot stone.

[9:21] Matt Rodin: I love hot stones.

[9:22] Matt Rodin: I I I got a hot stone massage once and they burned my back.

[9:25] Caleb Dicke: Oh but was it good burn?

[9:26] Matt Rodin: Or you're like, no, I had like a I had like a frustrating blister.

[9:31] Caleb Dicke: No, it's one of those places that's open 24 hours and it's like paid like 36 bucks for an hour.

[9:35] Matt Rodin: But like I'm not mad.

[9:37] Matt Rodin: You know, I'm not sure.

[9:37] Caleb Dicke: Was it in Chelsea?

[9:38] Matt Rodin: Because I've been to that one.

[9:39] Matt Rodin: No, it's in right by Grand Central.

[9:40] Matt Rodin: There's a 24-hour place above Midtown Comics.

[9:43] Matt Rodin: There's it's right upstairs.

[9:45] Caleb Dicke: Okay, okay, I know where that is.

[9:47] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[9:47] Matt Rodin: But no acupuncture for you.

[9:49] Matt Rodin: Well, you know, I'll try anything twice.

[9:53] Caleb Dicke: I can come up with that.

[9:55] Caleb Dicke: Like I got a list of things.

[9:56] Caleb Dicke: I'm like, I wanna know.

[9:58] Matt Rodin: Um yeah, I'm gonna try it again because I do I did feel relief after a day or two.

[10:05] Matt Rodin: But like, you know, and they did cupping, which I love cupping.

[10:07] Matt Rodin: So that was a good one.

[10:10] Caleb Dicke: Oh, I love it.

[10:11] Caleb Dicke: Because it's trendy to take a picture of your like, oh look at my cups.

[10:14] Matt Rodin: Oh, honey, honey, my answer is.

[10:15] Matt Rodin: Because Michael Phelps did it too.

[10:17] Caleb Dicke: Everyone.

[10:18] Caleb Dicke: Oh my god.

[10:18] Matt Rodin: Yes, he did, but you know.

[10:21] Matt Rodin: You know, that's what did it did mainstream it was everyone like seeing all the Olympians with giant.

[10:27] Caleb Dicke: But she did slide cupping, which was like, so it's not like the circles.

[10:32] Matt Rodin: She took some the what whatever the mechanism was and like slid in like slide marks.

[10:40] Matt Rodin: Uh it was like a T on my back.

[10:43] Matt Rodin: Like, um at the top of my shoulder and then down my spine.

[10:47] Caleb Dicke: Oh, yeah.

[10:47] Matt Rodin: Can you take your own?

[10:48] Caleb Dicke: But it was just it was just red.

[10:49] Matt Rodin: It wasn't like the purple purple.

[10:52] Caleb Dicke: It was interesting.

[10:52] Caleb Dicke: Are the Olympics still going on?

[10:54] Matt Rodin: No, they had the closing.

[10:55] Caleb Dicke: I didn't involve them.

[10:56] Matt Rodin: I didn't the this year either.

[10:57] Matt Rodin: I'm really good on summer Olympics, winter, I'm like I I mean I I much I love gymnastics.

[11:03] Caleb Dicke: I love watching gymnastics.

[11:05] Matt Rodin: I do too.

[11:06] Matt Rodin: You know, I I like watching um beach volleyball.

[11:10] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[11:10] Matt Rodin: Oh that loved beach volleyball.

[11:12] Matt Rodin: What a party.

[11:13] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[11:13] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[11:14] Matt Rodin: I'm trying to think what there was there's some I mean obviously I like figure skating, like I feel like that's the most mainstream of the winter Olympics.

[11:21] Caleb Dicke: And the sploog slugge.

[11:24] Matt Rodin: The Sloog.

[11:25] Caleb Dicke: Oh my god.

[11:26] Matt Rodin: The luge.

[11:27] Caleb Dicke: The luge.

[11:28] Matt Rodin: That's what I was came.

[11:31] Matt Rodin: I haven't seen so many memes of like luges.

[11:35] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[11:36] Caleb Dicke: I guess I just got them all confused.

[11:38] Matt Rodin: All the words.

[11:39] Matt Rodin: The actual definition.

[11:41] Caleb Dicke: We know it's on your tumblr.

[11:42] Matt Rodin: I know.

[11:44] Matt Rodin: That was your week.

[11:45] Matt Rodin: My week was great.

[11:46] Matt Rodin: My week was really great.

[11:47] Matt Rodin: It's been um it's been really interesting because like I'm I have a full-time job.

[11:53] Matt Rodin: I work at Broadway.com as of right now.

[11:55] Matt Rodin: Um I work at Broadway.com full-time, and it's amazing to have something that's stable, and I get to like be creative and I'm in the industry, and like it's all good things.

[12:06] Matt Rodin: Um and have money coming in your bank account every two weeks.

[12:08] Matt Rodin: Like, like amazing, you know.

[12:11] Matt Rodin: Um but I for the past couple years, like I've been very much uh focusing my energy on getting to that place where I got a full-time job and can do that, and I'm now really in the beginning, like of this year, 2018.

[12:27] Matt Rodin: I'm like finally going back into my like I hate to say my BFA, but it just I'm like allowing that part of me to like flourish again.

[12:36] Matt Rodin: Yeah, okay, I have a little substantial here that I can work on.

[12:39] Matt Rodin: Yeah, and like just allowing those opportunities to come.

[12:41] Matt Rodin: So like not shutting things down and being like, oh, well, there's this, there's a reading and there's uh audition.

[12:46] Matt Rodin: And like and being open and being like, oh, I'm willing to actually go and do those things.

[12:50] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[12:50] Matt Rodin: So this week's been great because I I did I was able to do a reading of a new show.

[12:54] Matt Rodin: That like I I it's just nice to work on things that you like actually are excited about.

[12:59] Matt Rodin: Yeah, yes.

[13:00] Matt Rodin: Um because I definitely had a phase when I moved to the city, and I think a lot of people do, and a lot of people still do, where you're just auditioning to audition and you're just going in because you just want to.

[13:10] Matt Rodin: Right, because you just want a a job, yeah, a job.

[13:13] Matt Rodin: And to not to have a full-time job at Broadway.com, it takes that pressure off of me because I don't feel like I'm like, oh, I ha I mean I have something going on.

[13:21] Matt Rodin: I'm not like, you know, not busy.

[13:23] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[13:23] Matt Rodin: Um so I get to be more selective about the things that I'm doing.

[13:25] Matt Rodin: And so this week was great because I feel like um I'm finally like I'm coming into those things, you know.

[13:33] Matt Rodin: Yeah, yeah. And it's a good feeling, it's a good place to be where it feels like there are a lot of things on the horizon. It feels like there are a lot of things that are about to happen. And it's like there's a little bit of that anxiousness of like, I just want it to happen already. But it's like, you know what? Patience, allowing, but it's March 1st. And yeah, someone read my tarot cards at the end of 2017. I mean, I get my tarot cards read like all the time because I just am obsessed. Yeah, yeah. And I very much believe in all that stuff.

[14:01] Caleb Dicke: Do you have a certain reader that you go to?

[14:02] Matt Rodin: My friend Brittany is amazing, she's like a dear friend of mine, and she loves reading tarot cards. And she's great. And she does it like she can do it via text or she can do it in person. It's amazing. But she wasn't the person I was at a birthday party on some of my tarot cards in December, and she was like, the next three to six months are gonna be like real crazy. And so to now be like three one today, like literally March 1st today, I'm like, okay, strapping in, ready to do it. And that's it does feel like that. It does feel like there's about to be this huge sort of just newness exploding. Yeah, I'm excited.

[14:38] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, it's been a good week.

[14:39] Matt Rodin: That's amazing.

[14:40] Caleb Dicke: Yeah. I love it when you like it, it's kind of like a running theme when you talk to people and they're like excited about what's happening. It's like you get to a point where you strike a balance in like what you are wanting and like what you're like allowing to happen and like setting yourself up to allow those things to happen.

[14:58] Matt Rodin: Yeah. And that's a very like, it seems like mumbo jumbo, but like it really is. It's like you reach that balance where you're like, alright, I'm set up. This is what I'm ready for, and then things start just happening.

[15:12] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, I think you have to put yourself in the mindset of like being open and available to those opportunities. Because I think a lot of times people get into a lack mindset where you're thinking about all the things you don't have and the jobs that you don't have and the opportunities that are not coming. But all you're doing, the universe doesn't really care what you what like the way that you're saying it, all it's hearing is that you don't have that.

[15:37] Matt Rodin: Exactly, yeah. And so you're gonna continue to get more of whatever that what you're putting out. And so if you don't have it and you're talking about how you don't have something, you're not gonna continue to not have it. But if you get to a place where you feel settled and you can say, you know what, I'm ready for whatever that next opportunity is. There's something coming my way. Like, I feel that's what's gonna happen. Like, that is because that's the energy you're putting out, that is what will come back.

[15:58] Caleb Dicke: Totally agree.

[16:00] Matt Rodin: Yeah. I love that. One of mine's one of mine's this year is um money comes easily and frequently.

[16:05] Caleb Dicke: Oh my god, you are a badass and making money, yes, I'll give it to me.

[16:09] Matt Rodin: Well, I like every time I do make money, I write it down and I also like say it. So like I in one of my journals, it has like the same phrase written all on a row. So it's kind of like and I know that's not people think that sounds crazy, but like that you have you like have to do that.

[16:21] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[16:22] Matt Rodin: That's like very important. But it really does, so like literally, and you don't like you don't recognize it, but then like people have contacted me for like work, I'm just like, oh blah blah blah blah blah. Like it's all coming together, and it's kind of like crazy how fast it's it comes, yeah.

[16:35] Caleb Dicke: It comes, it comes, yeah. There's but there's there's a lot of stigma, especially with artists around money. Like there's so much pre there's like this weird pressure and like stakes around it, and and again, like when you put negative negative energy around that thing, instead of thinking, I love money and money loves me, and like money is mine and it's coming towards me, like that shit works.

[16:59] Matt Rodin: It really does, it happens. That's why I never say starving artists. I hate that phrase, and I think it's like it's the worst.

[17:05] Caleb Dicke: Okay, this is literally um right now um our microphone is sitting on top of The Art of Asking by Amanda Palmer, uh, which Caleb is gonna borrow. And that is literally what this book is about. You know, she was an artist that um, you know, her the Dresden dolls were like on the forefront of like crowdfunding, and like, you know, she was a street performer, and that's how she made her living for years. And it's um it's the I she talks a lot about artists' like relationship and like guilt with money. And it's something that we all kind of deal with, but it's also we also have to remember that as artists, um, because we're putting ourselves out there, a lot of times people want to help us. You know, people want to, you know, invest in artists, be it actually investing in their art or helping them invest in their art by like hiring them for such and such random job.

[17:58] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[17:58] Matt Rodin: And it's important to like be willing to ask and be open to it and not have that like shame, that stigma with money.

[18:05] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, I mean, there's this, you know, uh it's like a trope that I just feel like has sort of become engraved in society that it is like you have to be a starving artist. And the truth is, like, if you go back and you look at the the mate, like the mate, the biggest artists in history. I mean, Michael Andrew, like, was a millionaire. Like, these people were making so much money, and it's just crazy how sort of over time it's become this like sort of normal thing.

[18:34] Matt Rodin: Yeah, that like it that's that's the way it is. And it's like you just have to like, you know, you live on scraps, and it's just like you have to. I remember um being in high school and having a fantasy about wanting to live after seeing Rent, about wanting to live like in a loft downtown, like in a with a fire coming out of like, you know, a garbage can.

[18:54] Caleb Dicke: It's so romantic.

[18:55] Matt Rodin: It is romantic. I know what there was like this romantic thing about it because I was like, I'm gonna be like, you know, fighting for my art. But now I'm like, hell no, girl. I'm like, I want I want the money, I want I'm like, yeah, do you know? You're like, bitch, I want insurance.

[19:08] Caleb Dicke: Yes. Yes, yes.

[19:10] Matt Rodin: I don't know. I don't know why. I don't know why there, I don't know why that stigma exists. Like, I don't know what it is about that that people have sort of latched onto. I think maybe because it's easy. What's the dramatics of being like, oh, poor? I mean, like, I don't know. I would also imagine that that's been created probably by you know corporations, maybe like higher ups.

[19:34] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[19:35] Matt Rodin: To know, you know, people are always kind of afraid of art. So I think if you make people afraid of being artists.

[19:40] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[19:40] Matt Rodin: So deep. I mean, I'm serious. Like, oh yeah. So many of these tropes probably came from to protect Wall Street.

[19:48] Caleb Dicke: Right.

[19:48] Matt Rodin: You know what I mean? Like, I'm I'm I was trying to think of um, I was gonna say something about it escaped my brain. But um, I oh, I was one so many people that I know, because I went to school for theater, went to Boston Conservatory, like, you know, people come out, and I think any any artist faces this, but like you have tunnel vision. Like you think you're like, this is the only thing I'm capable of doing, and all I can do is audition and book jobs, and like that's that's my skill set, and if I don't make money doing that, and like I can't make money uh any other way, other than like babysitting or waiting tables when really like if you have that like artist thing in you, which I think everybody does.

[20:33] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[20:33] Matt Rodin: Um, I think it's a matter of just allowing yourself to like let that out. You realize like there is no there is no like one path, and and you can apply your um your skills, your like your artistry to a ton of different things and like fulfill yourself in different ways and make money and get paid, right?

[20:54] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, yes. Get paid a lot. Sometimes the stupidest gigs pay you the most when you're like, this is really how much I'm getting paid to do this.

[21:01] Matt Rodin: Yes, yeah. But again, sometimes it's that balance. Like sometimes you like sometimes what's the best about taking that, like, you know, industrial gig that pays really well, but is like you're like, ugh, this is not fun, or whatever, da da. Is that it allows you to either audition more or it allows you to, you know, work on a uh idea for a show you want to write, or you know, or be in a reading that's paying you a hundred dollars, but you're like, I believe in this project.

[21:29] Caleb Dicke: Exactly.

[21:29] Matt Rodin: So it's you have to like again like find that balance, like of like paying those bills, but also knowing that like that balance will come if you're open to it and allowing it.

[21:40] Caleb Dicke: It's a c I feel like it's just a constant, it's just it's constant. It's it's like never ending. There is no like settling place, and I think that's another thing that people get really caught up on is they think that there's this moment of like I've done it. I made it, right? It's all and I think I mean I talk about this a lot because I went to school for theater, but like you people have this idea that like once you book a Broadway show, your your it's your dreams come true, and right, and you're and it's like you're happily ever after. That it's this like magical fairy tale land place where like all your dreams come true. And like there is some truth to that in that like it is an incredible job to be able to like put on a costume and sing and dance every night.

Like, what an amazing gig. But it's also a job. It's eight times a week, it's like a real you have to go to work and oh yeah and and be at work. And a lot of times people will book a Broadway show or or any sort of job that you've aspired to have your whole life, and you realize I had the same thing happening in Bromber.com. It was this thing that I really wanted. I set out for this goal, I achieved it, and then I said, Oh, this isn't what I what I had put on.

[22:47] Matt Rodin: Yeah, because I had built up an expectation, right? Of what I thought this thing was gonna be. I mean, and the lesson I think for me has been like go in with no expectations, you know, allow it to just be whatever it's gonna be. Um that's not easy, especially when it's something that you've wanted for a really long time and you've put this like weight on this thing, and we all like to have control of it. So we all like have our have we've all like you know, we've plotted it out in our mind the way it's gonna be. But it never happens that way. And then the universe throws a wrench in, and you're just like yeah. But if you're open and you're and you're and you allow that wrench to come in, you realize like, oh, actually, maybe this can like this is a tool, this is like a way that I can do something different, you know what I mean?

[23:28] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, yeah. So, like, did you I like to check this all back to like childhood and see like how people were raised. Talk a little bit, like what got you started in the arts and how that happened of like mentality of learning to where did you get that concept of it?

[23:43] Matt Rodin: So, okay, so I what I was the kid that like I watched the I think it was the Mary Martin Peter Pan like live television thing. Like I I knew every word, every motion. Like I used to do the choreography like in my and I'm sure that's a story that like everybody everybody tells, but someone else tell that exact same story. But really, from a very, very young age, like two, three years old. Like my mom, my grandparents were like, that's what you were doing. Like it was very clear that you connected with that. But I also was the type of kid who I did not like school. Like I did not enjoy being in school. I think because I knew that I was gonna do something artistic with my life, and being in science class like wasn't helping me in any way.

[24:23] Caleb Dicke: Um.

[24:23] Matt Rodin: And so what I ended up doing was really through the course of like middle school and and junior high and high school, I like would convince teachers to let me do creative projects instead of writing papers. So I would like make a PowerPoint instead of writing a paper. Or I made like like my one of my projects, like my senior year of high school, I made like a website with like 10 different videos on it, and like it was a click-through thing, and because I for me that's way more enjoyable. And I'm able and I'm able to learn material way easier that way.

[24:56] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[24:56] Matt Rodin: I also have a big issue with the way the school system works and like the fact that it's all teaching to tests, and like I'm just such a big believer in like letting people do the thing that they want to do and teaching them skills that they can go, oh, this is the thing I connect with, this is the thing I don't.

[25:10] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[25:10] Matt Rodin: Um but I but I really really leaned into creative projects, and by the time I was in like a senior in high school, I was doing I was directing, I was doing poster design for shows, um, I was editing music for my friends who were cheerleaders and palmers. Like I was doing all of it. And when I went to college, I was like doing lighting design and I was doing poster design and I was directing and I was on student government. Like I continued to make myself do things outside of whatever I was like supposed to be doing.

[25:41] Caleb Dicke: Sure, right.

[25:41] Matt Rodin: Um because I just I like I I'm just that type of person, like I needed to. I get bored very easily, I have crazy ADHD, I'm like an Aries, very hardcore. I love starting things, I'm very bad at finishing them. Uh and it's but but I don't know. I like I always have been um a creative type, and I was lucky that my parents were super supportive. Um they also were very insistent that I was well-rounded. That was their big thing. They were like, you're gonna be well-rounded. That word is like engraved in my brain. Um they made me play hockey. I played hockey for 10 years, ice hockey. I was a referee for like six or seven, and I went to boys overnight camp every summer. So I wasn't doing professional theater, I wasn't doing regional productions, I wasn't doing anything.

That I was going to a boys' straight up overnight camp. There was like an improv class that I ended up teaching, but it but that was it. That was it. Like I'll sit down, like I said, and what I think I loved about the camp that I went to, Camp Timberlin, was it had something for everybody. So there was basketball and archery and riflery and horseback riding, uh, and and you know, baseball and water skiing, but there was also arts and crafts and guitar and pottery um and rocketry, and so there were opportunities to do a little bit about everything. Yeah, and I and I I yeah, I'm just I'm very very grateful for the fact that I I am well-rounded. I think it it it has contributed a lot to the human that I am now because I'm I like I'm not completely oblivious when it comes to other things in the world.

[27:13] Matt Rodin: I mean, there are a lot of things I like do not know and do not understand. Um, we can't know everything, like no, but it gave me the mindset and it set me up to be like you can learn anything, anything is possible. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's no topic. I'm like, oh, you want me to learn about baseball? And like give me a couple months, I'm like, I'll figure it out. Yeah, you know what I mean? It made me super scrappy because if I didn't know how to do something, it was—and you guys understand, it's like we came up in the age of the internet, yeah. And so to have to learn how to use PowerPoint in a way that was super creative, and I was like animating stuff, people were like, how do you do that?

Oh yeah, but PowerPoints next level. Next level. Everyone was using those awful pre-made ingredients, and I was like, horrible. I was like, oh, you guys know you can make your own and you can make them do this. Yeah. It can look really beautiful. Yes. And I was like, that boring clip art, honey. No, no honey, honey, no, I'll make my own. Okay. I was like, that is not in the aesthetic. I was like, that does not make any sense. My PowerPoints were it. So I made pictures for PowerPoints were my favorite thing to do. But yeah, I think like making them. That is interesting because I think like in a similar vein of like young kids now, like have a whole different handle on the internet than we do.

Yeah, right. But that's because they were in it. And so anything that changes. I remember not having it. I remember the first computer in our house. I remember the sound of the AOL dial-up. I remember all that stuff. Yeah. I saw my AOL email.

[28:48] Matt Rodin: So you know what else is interesting is that these young kids now that—and I don't want to say it like that—but young people now, like Instagram and Facebook and Snapchat and Musically and all of these crazy apps that are out there, and I mean obviously YouTube, but like there is so much more space for like self-creative self-expression. Yeah, right? Like totally. There are kids, and I'm talking about like kids, kids, kids, yeah, that have millions and millions and millions of followers because of the way that they make something. There's an Instagram account that you know she does. I mean, she's not I don't think she's a kid, but she puts Drake lyrics on cake. And like hilarious. But you know what I mean?

The internet has put the power in people's hands and enabled people to be like, I just want to make this thing and I can go do this thing. And I'm like very, I don't know, I'm like very pro—it's hard because I'm torn because I'm like pro social media, but I also totally know the downfall and I understand how it's painful. Like I have horrible anxiety and I like fall in deep, deep, deep wormholes with all that shit. But it encourages and enables kids to like be their creative selves.

[30:08] Caleb Dicke: Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

[30:09] Matt Rodin: Oh, absolutely. I mean I think like being a part of Charlie really opened my eyes to that because, and you know, we didn't even have the fan bases that some of the shows have right now online, but you know, the fact that even just these kids can like make their little art that they were inspired to do and like share it like that and have us see it. You know what I mean? Like that's a cool thing, and it's also like a totally different thing. Like, yeah, I’m kind of glad I didn't have like that close access to like people on Broadway when I was that young because like oh my god, it's a different world a little bit. I mean it's a whole new world.

[30:49] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[30:53] Matt Rodin: It really and you're right, it has completely changed how fans interact with Broadway shows. My big thing is I'm like if you instead of like asking somebody for like a picture, offer them something of value. And so like if you are a young person that can draw, I'm like make some fucking art. Like yeah, draw something and give that person something of value, something that they'll remember, and you never know in two, five, ten years down the line when they need something and go, you know what, this kid was amazing at this thing, or this person may be this, and I need you just never know. But establish the relationship in a way that's not like fan. Do you know what I mean? Like don't put somebody on a pedestal, and I think that's been a big thing for me, especially with the red carpets, like that I've learned in the last four years from the very get-go, I was like, no one's fancy. Yeah, no one's fancy, I'm not asking anyone real questions, like I am—I don't care. Like, I don't want anybody to feel like I am less than them.

[31:57] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, yeah.

[31:57] Matt Rodin: Because I think a lot of times that is the mindset, especially when you go to like, you know, when you're new to the city and you go to an event or you go to a Broadway show and you see someone there, and you're like, Oh my god, this person, like can I get a picture with you? And like instead of being like, hey, how like you run with them a line and you're like, hey, how's it going? Like, how are you? Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, establish a true, authentic relationship with a person. That's how Cynthia Erivo was put on Broadway. That's why she did our video series was because we established a relationship in such that she was like she wanted to work with us on something rather than us, you know what I mean? You're like a normal person because it's not gonna like it's not like awkward, she wasn't like doing a favor, she was like yes, contributing, yeah, she wanted to do it.

[32:43] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, yeah.

[32:43] Matt Rodin: And I don't know, I think like as flattering as it is to have people say to you they admire your work, and I think what every quote unquote celebrity or pro, you know, someone that has any kind of platform really wants, is just people to like treat them like normally. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like I just look at like someone like, you know, Gaga or Ariana Grande, yeah, like can't even leave their home without being mauled. Right, yeah. And I just I'm like that, that there's it makes me sad. It makes me sad. Totally. And obviously, not everybody can be your friend. Like, you know what I mean. Not everybody can be friends with that person, but I think there's a way in which, and especially if you're trying to get into an industry, theater or any other industry, that you can treat people with respect, but it's like as a peer-to-peer rather than like a fan celebrity sort of thing.

[33:35] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, well, and I'm reading currently like a book called Reach Out by Molly Beck. And it's a great book. Jen Waldman recommended it. So if you're interested in that, read it.

[33:45] Matt Rodin: My god. But that is I'm doing a thing, I'm producing something for Jen Waldman tomorrow. She's the—tell her reading. Yes. I'm doing their—I'm Facebook Living them. Perfect. I'm producing it for them. Amazing. But yeah, this book, it talks about how to, you know, everyone wants to like reach out to be in their industry or whatever. But there's a very easy way to do it and be successful. And it's like only successful if it's authentic. And you have to be like put that on a fucking tote bag. Yeah. Because people want to be—we're all trying to just like do something meaningful, right? So like if you talk to someone and you're like, hey, this was saw this. That's awesome. Wanna do something. Yes.

You know what I mean? In a world where it's very confusing as to what is real and what is fake right now. Like what is it like? You know, like you know what I mean? Like it straight up is like, you know, you look at some people's social media and you're like, oh, you're like, this isn't none of this is real. And the truth is like it can't be a full representation of you. It was never meant to be that. Right. But you can be an auth, you can show an authentic piece of yourself, you can show a true piece of yourself. Um, and when you lean into that, the opportunities that then come are like aligned with who you truly like actually are, rather than this like thing that you've created.

[35:03] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, right.

[35:03] Matt Rodin: You know, and I think that's where a lot of people get mixed up too is they're like what do I have to be like, you know, do I just put myself out there in this way or like do I have and it's like just be yourself, your yourself and obviously like I think there are totally strategies that you can put yourself out there in a way that feels organic and natural because I know that there are ways that don't feel that way. I, you know what I mean? Like I know that exists because I know there are plenty of things that I see online and I'm like ugh, I can smell it from a hundred miles away. Yeah, very changing the bullshit and we just want like all I feel like everybody right now we just like want real shit. We just like want the truth. We want the tea, you know?

[35:54] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, I do. I want the tea.

[35:54] Matt Rodin: I want the tea but then every now and then just lie to me a little bit because I need to get through it maybe but mostly like I keep those sparingly, you know what I mean. It's all a lie. But that's I know I mean it's all I but it's all a lie but that's all like entertainment that's what we mean that's what I mean like give me the entertainment so to get those like escapes those necessarily lies but those like um you know we can put we can put ourselves in those fantasies.

[36:20] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, fantasies.

[36:20] Matt Rodin: It's all a dream we're all just like we're all just blobs of shit yeah we're all just like blobs of skin walking around what does Kasha say we're all just stardust rather than the other though we are stardust. Yeah well I want to talk to because what tell people what you do if they're don't necessarily know like your job yeah that it's in the it's it's um it's something that's it's it's become more and more difficult. Okay. Um just as time is just to describe what you're basically. Yeah, so I so the way I like to explain it to people is I'm like, you know, I really believe I have this deep, deep belief that art is a channel, it is an access channel to this core human spirit that I think we all have.

It's something that like that, I think that's the thing that really connects all of us. Um I think when you're able to recognize that, then empathy is sort of just like there because you realize, oh, I am no different than you. We are literally me and this piano are actually like we're all just energy. It's all just the same. And I respect you in the same way, you know what I mean? I just it's there. But I think art is a way is an access channel to that. And it's sort of become my mission, my goal in everything that I do.

[37:38] Caleb Dicke: Your why.

[37:38] Matt Rodin: My why, thank you very much. You can tell where this was going. My why, you know, to unveil the light and ignite the creative power that lives in people because I do think that everybody has creativity. I do think that it is a piece, it is it is an expression of the like inner lightness, that feeling that is like I mean it's love, it's happiness, it's joy, like it's any of those good feelings that you've ever had when you've like tasted something delicious or you've seen a movie and you've cried. Like that, all of that is love. That is like the purest form of us. That is like the truest form of who we are, and creativity to me is like an expression of that. And so, like I said, my like everything I do now, I try to hopefully expose that light in people and be like, hey, you got this, you have light in you, and then be like, hey, you can actually use your creativity to make something that will hopefully, in my big dream of dreams, that will expand us, as I like to say, expand us into a more empathetic and really conscious species.

I think a lot of people are unconscious. I think people are moving around the world not knowing, not even realizing what they're doing and why they're doing it at all. And I want to like, it's like waking people up, you know, being like, oh, you know, I I don't know. I again going back to the why. I'm like, I really do like I want to see a world where people feel empowered to like know who they are and like know their truths and identify like exactly who you are and not feel pressure from anything outside, and then um like uh empowered to like do something creative, do something like with the with whatever their specific thing that they like is because everybody's got different tastes, everybody's got different skills, and if you can combine those things in an interesting way, you you like that's like your unique like thing, you know what I mean?

So that's what I'm trying to do. It's been great because that's been a long work in progress for me to come to that place. It was in I read Start with Why. I saw his TED Talk at the end of 2016, uh Simon Sinek's TED Talk in 2016. The author of Start With Why, and I and then I read the book, um, and it completely changed everything for me because everything I've been doing up to that point, you know, I was I had done a couple regional gigs, because I went, like I said, I went to school for musical theater. Um I had been doing red carpets for uh Playbill, and I was at Broadway.com. Uh and I was, you know, I'm I was a songwriter, I play guitar, like I was doing all of these things, and it was very hard for me to understand how they all were connected.

And when I discovered this why theory, I was like, oh my God. Like, like as long as all together. Literally it that was the through line, and I was like, oh, what is it about all of these things that like, you know are are connected? And it was that that I'm like, I really do think, you know, that you the fact that you can go into the color purple and have an out-of-body experience to me. Like the fact that you can go see, you know, or there's a song that could, if we played it right now, it would make you dance.

[40:39] Matt Rodin: Or there's a song right now, it would make you cry.

[40:41] Caleb Dicke: Totally.

[40:42] Matt Rodin: To me, like that is like that's amazing. Like, that is so fucking cool.

[40:47] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[40:48] Matt Rodin: That some piece of work that someone else made has that kind of like impact on you. And I think meditation does that. I think prayer does that for some people. Um I think sports to some extent do that for some people because if they're both.

[41:04] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, like focus.

[41:05] Matt Rodin: And and fans, I mean listen, like the most primal version of people comes out.

[41:10] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, right.

[41:11] Matt Rodin: Um, but to me, that that that's really really gets me hyped up is like that that piece that is like I think that art uh really is. It's this like you you can tap into this like really true source, you know, source energy thing, and um it's all a little bit woo-hoo voodoo-y, but it's that's how I feel, and that's like my that's my truth, and like that's that's where I'm at. And that's what it is. Um, and so now I I work full-time at Broadway.com uh producing uh we do a live show every single day, five days a week, and I'm like the producer on that. We do you know different guests every single day, and it's a full out thing. So I do that, I do the red carpets. Um still performing a little bit. Uh I'm posting, I I put stuff on YouTube all the time now. Um yeah, I don't know. I'm just kind of doing all I feel like I'm doing all of the things.

[41:59] Caleb Dicke: Check of all trades.

[41:59] Matt Rodin: Yeah. We're all connected to your why. So that's the exciting part of it. And I don't know, you know, people, it's like I that phrase of jack of all trades, master of none. I for some reason that like never resonated with me, that always like rubbed me the wrong way, and maybe it's because it like describes me, but I think I think it's more because I I believe that, like I said, if you have a why, if you have like a sort of centralizing thing, then you realize that there is no one path. And this goes back to what we were talking about earlier, is that so many kids that I see that are in school for musical theater, or really anything, but because of my experience, you know, they go to school for musical theater, and you're like, well, why, why, why did you go to school for musical theater? And they're like, well, I want to be on Broadway. I'm like, okay, why?

[42:40] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[42:41] Matt Rodin: Right, right, right. And what ends up happening is people don't know how to answer. They're like, well, it's what I've always wanted since I was a kid. Great. Why? And as you start to dig down, you you can it's it's scary and it's terrifying because a lot of people have never gone that deep before. They just they've just doing they're doing this thing because it's what they think they need to be doing. It's what they've always known. It's the only thing I can do. It's it's what I'm doing. When you dig down and you figure out why your true why, which it can be, you know, you want to be working on new and interesting projects, people that you admire. You want to be making art that connects with people, you want to be performing in a public space. You know, whatever it is, like if you can figure out what those things are, you realize that like Broadway is just like one option way to do that.

[43:27] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[43:27] Matt Rodin: It's just one. It's just a high commercial outlet. And it doesn't, and it doesn't like devalue Broadway in any way or theater in any way. But if if you can figure out what that why is, you you it like a thousand like roads open up. And it it just it's like so freeing.

[43:45] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, it's like, I mean, in if you've read the book, it that's it. Broadway's a what. Broadway is like a it's a what or even a how.

[43:51] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[43:52] Caleb Dicke: And so Right, it's a how. And especially, and especially because it's out of your control.

[43:57] Matt Rodin: Completely. That's the other thing too that fucks with me, because I'm like, these people are putting all of their like worth and they're like hoping that they're gonna be fulfilled by a decision that someone else makes.

[44:08] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[44:08] Matt Rodin: Yeah. Well, and I think that's also I think that's a young that's a young mentality. Like, I feel like to get to get there, like we've all had to kind of like school of life it a little bit. You know what I mean? And so I think that, but I do think that the earlier you hear it, and the more you can like kind of have that in the back of your brain that like I need to think about why I'm doing this. Because otherwise, when it gets really hard, you know, when it's not just like always was the star in high school, go to a college, have a blast, learning it, fear, sias, sickening, gaga. And then you get to the city and it's really fucking hard. Yeah, you have to like, if you have that why, it makes it a lot easier.

I I don't I don't I don't even know if I would have been ready to hear it. You know what I mean? That's it's a cool only shirt. I I really I think about it all the time. I'm like, I don't know if at 20 years old I would have been able to wrap my brain around the fact that like I wasn't, you know what I mean? That Broadway wasn't the only answer.

[45:00] Matt Rodin: Yeah, I just I don't I don't know. And I think when you figure it out, when you realize that when you come to an age and you are a maturity that you're like, oh, actually, this is about why I'm doing this, it's not about what the what the special thing I'm doing. You go, there are plenty of things I can do that that I have the power that I have the power to make happen. Right. Like I I can just do it. That's how the red carpet thing happened in the first place. Is that I literally was like, you know what, I'm gonna go down the street. Well, first I was like, I'm just gonna start making videos. And I was like, okay, well, if I want people in the industry to notice me, I need to be able to feature other people in my videos that are in the industry.

So I did a series called Schooled where I talked to people about college programs, and then that led me to being like, oh, I want to do maybe I can do red carpets to help promote that show. The site I was doing it for Broadway World at the time was like we already have somebody, which they still do. Um and I said, I don't give a fuck, like I'm gonna go do it. And so I went down the street from the opening night of Something Rotten and said, I don't give a fuck, I'm just gonna go do this thing, see what happens.

[45:58] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[45:58] Matt Rodin: And it's the it is the reason why I'm I have the job I have now. Like, and it's the reason why I was able to discover all this stuff. Like, you know what I mean? It all sort of one thing leads to another.

[46:10] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, it comes down, yeah.

[46:11] Matt Rodin: And that's also comforting too, right? Like to know that every one thing just leads to another. It's like this is the exciting part about it. Yeah, that like there is no right path. There is no, like, we get caught up so often in being like You're like, I'm doing all this right, I'm doing all these things, why is it not working? But that's just not your path. That's the night no one's path is the same. And it like it is working. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, it is working. Right. It's it's working exactly the way it's supposed to, because you're learning the things that you need to, yeah, so that six months, two years, five years from now, you can have the opportunity and be in that place where you're like, this is fucking awesome. And thank God I had that experience because otherwise I would never have had this.

[46:49] Caleb Dicke: Absolutely.

[46:50] Matt Rodin: Perspective. That's really what it is. Yeah. And I think that it would number one, it makes everything so much sweeter when things happen how you want them. Because if you if you put in the hard yards and you've put in the work and you know you've gone through those times where things weren't going as you wanted to, if you trust that they're happening as they should, then it's sweeter when something you want aligns with what is actually going on.

[47:14] Caleb Dicke: It happens more often too.

[47:15] Matt Rodin: It happens more often. If you're if you're trust, if you let it happens way more. I mean, listen, I for I so I saw Jason Morales for the first time in concert in 2008, and it was it changed my whole life, it changed my whole perspective because I think what I I realize now after months of therapy, I realized now that what I saw in him was what I aspired to be. I was like, I I see what you like that's what I wanted. And I always said, I was like, I will, I'll meet him. Yeah, I'll meet him. I never bought VIP tickets. I always I was just like, I'll meet him one day, I know I'll meet him. And I was feeling really frustrated at my job. I was working at Broadway.com and been there for you know eight months, and I was really, really, really frustrated because I wasn't feeling artistically fulfilled.

Um sure enough, like out of nowhere, Jason books of Broadway show. I go to the opening night, the people are like, oh, you guys, you know, the press people are like, oh, you should do you know something with him, and it all works out, and then I get to meet him and spend time with him and sing one of his brand new it all, but it all like worked out. Yeah, and it was the biggest lesson for me in like oh, all of the feelings that I was having of like like disdain and uncomfort, like all that stuff was all part, like it was all it was all meant to be. It was all part of this whole thing that like led me to this moment, yeah.

[48:33] Matt Rodin: Um and a lot and it it when you just trust when you can just like let go and allow the thing to happen. Simon Sinek is another great example. Simon Sinek is a person who, like I said, 2016 and watch the TED Talk, read the book, changes my whole life. Truly changes my whole world. Another person I've said, I'll meet him, I'll meet him, I'll meet him, I'll meet him, I'll meet him. Trusting again, 2007 2018. I'm like, I'm doing I'm leaning into me, I'm leaning into my truth. This is who I am, this is what I'm doing. You guys asked me to come do this, out of like, but to me, it looks like out of nowhere. Like for me, it's just I get an email on my inbox, and it's like out of nowhere. I'm like, well, okay, great.

I'm sure I love to talk about the things that I love. Yeah, and then this opportunity with Jen Wallman comes in, and she's like, We're doing this Q&A with Simon Sinek. I want you to produce it. And like, and I'm like, what what? Like, huh? Yeah. Like, how did this thing just like land in my lap? But it's because it's just like trusting and allowing the thing to happen.

[49:27] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[49:28] Matt Rodin: Clearly I get very hyped up about this.

[49:30] Caleb Dicke: No, but it's like, well, I think that kind of leads into a question that I think you've you've um pr helped people produce things and see them come to fruition. And you've also produced things on your own. What are some what are some mistakes you see people make? Or not mistakes, but things that get in people's way when they're trying to make something of their own.

[49:54] Matt Rodin: People don't even realize that they're putting weight on other people's opinions. People don't even know that what's holding them back a lot of the time is what their parents are gonna think, what their friends are gonna think. And quite often, a lot of people, if you really ask them, they can put one or two people in their brain. Like they they have a person. I have a I have a person from college that was real like not I don't want to say mean, but like kind of bullied me in college. Sure. And whenever I feel like resistance to doing something, it's the it it's his face that subconsciously pops into my brain.

[50:30] Caleb Dicke: Interesting.

[50:31] Matt Rodin: And I think one of the biggest things that I notice is people feel like they're they're concerned about what other people are gonna think. Um and I I it's way easier said than done to let that shit go.

[50:45] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[50:46] Matt Rodin: Um, but to me, that's like a huge one. The other big one, um, is and I talk about this a lot, is like people, especially artists who want to, you know, whatever, like you have good taste. Right? Like, you know what you want your product to be. So for videos or or whatever people are working on, they have a vision of what they want this thing to be, and they're so caught up in that and and and not and worrying about not reaching that level that they don't even start. Like they're too scared to start.

[51:19] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, I know I've heard that a lot, actually.

[51:21] Matt Rodin: You'll talk about that in your in your video.

[51:23] Caleb Dicke: Yes, because people don't allow themselves to be a beginner. I'm like, be a beginner. It's like when you when you started walking, like you fucking sucked. Like you fell down all the time. You were a stupid fucking baby.

[51:36] Matt Rodin: Yeah, that was a good one.

[51:37] Caleb Dicke: You still like that?

[51:38] Matt Rodin: You fell down all the time. Do you know what I mean? And like it takes years to get to the point where you like walk comfortably. I mean, still the city of trip shit all the time.

[51:47] Caleb Dicke: I'm in the 2020 Olympics, I'm gonna be right here.

[51:50] Matt Rodin: That's what I'm saying. Like, it it you have to allow yourself, you have to just give yourself a chance to like suck for a little bit. Yeah, and know that like the thing that you're working on, even though in the moment if it's like the the world to you, you have to know that like it's just one thing. And and it will if if you can just like get one thing done and and continue like perfect is just get it done. Fuck perfect, just like get it done.

[52:19] Caleb Dicke: Get it out, yes.

[52:20] Matt Rodin: Yes, get it done because it will you you start like building up momentum and getting out of the next thing. If I listen, if you look at the videos I was putting out in the beginning, I was like filming my iPhone, I had hair down on my shoulders, horrible editing, no music, like it was it's like garbage, it's like embarrassing to watch. But thank God. Thank God that I did it. Bounce off on phone. Thank the universe, thank me that I did it. Because, right, because it it like I I was able to build on that thing. And I think a lot of times I see so many people in this place that come to me with you know, they have ideas or or or just like even seedlings of ideas of just like I want to do something like this or this, they don't even know where to start. I'm like, just start. Let's just like come up with some sort of specific, small, practical, achievable thing.

[53:08] Caleb Dicke: That's the other thing too.

[53:09] Matt Rodin: People go way too grand scale. Yeah. I'm like, okay, if it's a staircase we're talking about, right? Like, you can't jump from the first step to the 20th step. Like, you will fall. Like, it is not possible unless you're fucking Superman, which 99.99999% of us are not. You you can't jump. You you can maybe step like two or three steps, you can jump. But to allow yourself to be like, okay, I'm just gonna start with one. Start with something small and concrete, and then go, okay, what's two, what's three, what's four. That that, like, to me, that's like the biggest thing that I see is people get overwhelmed by the scale of what they're trying to do, even if the thing is not even that big a scale.

Like, even if it's a small sort of project that they're trying to do, they get overwhelmed by the number of tasks that it takes. And you're like, just start with fucking one. Send a goddamn text message, write it fucking down. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Yeah, and talk about it. I don't think you need to like put it on the internet and be like, this is what I'm doing, and like look at like then it's not because then it's not about the work, right?

[54:11] Matt Rodin: Well, and that's not actually. I mean, it is writing it down, but it's writing it down to like to the internet is fucking nowhere. You're putting it into the water. And I would just write into a wide for an idea. Yes, if it's something that you're actually you've actually put work into, and then sharing it is a different thing. And I would so much rather you, instead of being like, this is the thing that I'm doing, like, why don't you document the journey? Like, why don't you tell me about the experience of starting? Like being like, these were the difficulties that I'm facing, these are the problems that I'm having. And even if no, even if it gets no likes, which I can't even believe that, like, that's how we like determine the worth of something.

But right, but if it doesn't get it, like, how about the fact that like you'll be able to go back in six months, fucking five years, and or ten years, or your grandchildren in 50 years. Oh my god. Because it's all gonna be there. It's all gonna be there. It's all there. And so lost footage. And so it's like, it's like, you know what? Just doc just tell your story. Just like be your truest self, be honest and be open.

[55:11] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[55:12] Matt Rodin: And obviously, like, you know, you don't have to like tell everybody everything about you. But I I think just like being where you're at, and like I said, allowing yourself to be a beginner. I'm like, oh my god. People want to be like fucking Martin Scorsese. I'm like, you're not gonna be Stephanie J. Block tomorrow. Like, it's just not gonna happen. Like, you have to start. You know what I mean? Like, you I was we were great singers when we started. I I mean, I'm still not a great dancer. Like, I still fucking suck. Like, but you know what I mean? I also think No, like not. No, I don't know that thing. And that's the other thing too, right? To be able to be able to put it. Right. To be able to say, This is this doesn't align with me.

I don't this this right, this is not working for me. This is not something that fulfills me in this way. I don't feel like I'm getting any better. And ultimately, it doesn't bring me joy. Like, it does not bring you joy. That doesn't mean that everything you do has to bring you like ultimate, you know, bliss, joy. Yeah. Because it takes work. There is work involved, but like, no. I mean, I like move in and like Groovin, but I'm not like a dancer. Like I did not enjoy, like, I all I wanted to do when I was in ballet class was like go to the bathroom. And I did. I took tw 25, 45 minute bathroom breaks.

[56:23] Caleb Dicke: Really?

[56:23] Matt Rodin: Yeah, I would sit in the hallway and like set up my phone. Because I just and you know why? It's because I knew I was never gonna use it. Yeah. Okay. It's because I knew, I was like, that this is not what I'm trying to make. Which is also useful. Lesson learned. Yeah. Yes. You did it. You tried it. I hope that's helpful. But I think that's to me, those are no, those are like sort of the big things that I've done.

[56:40] Caleb Dicke: I think that's extremely helpful. Like, because so much of it, I mean, you know, Caleb and I kind of did the same thing with this podcast. We just like got a like $20 mic and just did it one time.

[56:50] Matt Rodin: Well, like you just decided to do it, right?

[56:52] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[56:53] Matt Rodin: Like no one, no one said to you, like, okay, now you're allowed to do it. Like, no. No one gave you, no one was like, hey, you guys, we want to put you guys on a podcast. Like, we want you guys to host this thing with this theme. No, it didn't fall into our laps. We had to create it. We had to try trial and error. We're like, oh yeah.

[57:09] Caleb Dicke: And how has that been? How's that been?

[57:11] Matt Rodin: Great. We're much better at it now.

[57:12] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, we and how do you and where do you where where like how do you see it expanding and growing? Like what in I better better question, in what ways do you want it to expand and grow?

[57:22] Matt Rodin: Well, I think we've talked about this, and our main thing now is as far as like the the people we talk to and like the the stories we want to get out there. Uh like let ourselves be the ones that say, hey, kind of dumb about this, about what your um trying what your situation might be. So you know tell us how people know the answers to everything, so you give us the answer, or like give us a love answer. So that's not everyone. People that are listening don't have to necessarily say it out loud and have that moment because it's vulnerable and it's hard to be able to be like, look, I'm a I'm a white boy from a Midwest middle class family. I don't know your experience. I don't know your experience. Why don't you tell tell us about that and let me know what's going on? That's something that we're trying to like see, especially like that.

[58:07] Caleb Dicke: How has it been um how has it been reaching out to people? Has that been like because to me, like I'm horrible, like I've been, I've gotten a lot better, but I am like, I do not like I can't walk up to somebody at a bar.

[58:19] Matt Rodin: Yeah, like I can't reaching out to people cold is terrifying to you.

[58:23] Matt Rodin: What's hard, I to be honest with this book is really helping me. Um because she pretty much she lays it out very easily and in like a a format.

[58:31] Caleb Dicke: I love that.

[58:31] Matt Rodin: You know, this reach out book that you're reading.

[58:33] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, yeah.

[58:33] Matt Rodin: Like, well, I mean, for example, when I reached out to you, so there was a thing about you know, uh, there's three different kinds of reaches. There's like um there's a follow-up. So, like, for instance, I was like, saw you at this party, great seeing you. And then you you do two things in the email. You say, um, why you're reaching out, why what made you think of this person, which to me, I saw a video of yours on Facebook that really resonated with me. So I knew that as someone who puts content out as well, it means a lot when someone says, loved that a thousand percent love that video, loved what you had to say. Specific, right?

[59:11] Caleb Dicke: Super specific, yeah.

[59:13] Matt Rodin: Super specific. Thank you for putting that content out. Loved that. And then I said, I'd love for you to be able to share some of that on the podcast. Would you be willing to come on? So it's so it's not about you trying to get anything from me.

[59:24] Caleb Dicke: No, right?

[59:24] Matt Rodin: No, it's about it's about like reaching out to strengthen, um it talks about strengthening the the outside reaches of your network.

[59:32] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[59:33] Matt Rodin: Because your network is small, and your network, your own little network can only do so much for you. To really see things expand and go further, you have to expand your network, and that goes by reaching further and further each time.

[59:45] Caleb Dicke: I think that's applicable on the internet too.

[59:48] Matt Rodin: Because a l I mean the thing I like to talk about social media a lot because I feel like a lot of artists are huge. It's the it's the future. And it's how we put ourselves out there now, right? Like that's that's our that's our business card is our Instagram, right? Like that's that's the and that's just always easier to reach someone through an Instagram than like anything else. And so I think that uh that mindset of you know, o offering somebody something of value and saying, like, you know, like rather than trying to get anything from somebody, right? Like rather than trying to be Yes, rather than saying Be on my podcast, please. Right, we'd love to have you on our show. Like you know what I mean? Rather when you say something like I we want you to share, like, we'd love to share with your with our audience what you're like, it's way more enticing. And the truth is, not everybody's gonna say yes.

[1:00:33] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[1:00:33] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[1:00:33] Matt Rodin: Well, we face that a lot. A lot of people like just have a don't respond to respond. And like that's fine. Like, totally fine. Yeah. But that if the more numbers that you do, the more people are gonna respond.

[1:00:44] Caleb Dicke: Exactly.

[1:00:45] Matt Rodin: Like the higher number that you reach out to, the higher number of people that are gonna respond. That's just like the way it works. It's a fascinating, it's a fascinating book. Um reach out. I'm gonna that's I'm I had no idea that you're gonna be able to do it. I'm almost done. Um I'm an audiobook. It's very short. It's very so short. It's like a hundred pages. You can't do it so it and I can't read. I mean, I can read. I mean, I can't, I'll literally seven pages and I will go did I just read? Yeah. And I I'll be like, I didn't read a single word.

[1:01:12] Caleb Dicke: That's with me what listening to both.

[1:01:15] Matt Rodin: Do you know what's great about reach out? At the end of each section? Reach out. That's why we have at the end of each section, there she does this little gray box that says it's called T L D R. Too Long, didn't read. And it gives you the bullet points of what she just read through. That's like some great hacking. And it is so short. I mean, I'm gonna get the book to you. Um it's I'm gonna get the book out from you afterwards.

[1:01:38] Caleb Dicke: So okay, great. Would you ever want to write a book?

[1:01:42] Matt Rodin: Mm-mm. I don't think so. No. I don't know what I would write it about. Like how to how to watch season five of Drag Race.

[1:01:51] Caleb Dicke: And you can write about Drag Race, but you love Drag Race.

[1:01:54] Matt Rodin: But do you know what I mean? Like, what would I write about? I mean, I don't know. No, a book. It'll come to you. Not right now. Right now, that's not something that's on that's on your that's on your radar.

[1:02:02] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, no, I'd rather talk. I'd rather do this.

[1:02:04] Matt Rodin: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, this is great. I mean, I think this is I I'm like, I any I really I tried my damnedest to do everything possible because as someone who is trying to continue to build my like my audience and like I I why would I say why would I say no? Like there's because there's no downside for me, right? Like there's no downside. You get some free drinks and you just talk. And I get to share my truth. Right. I get to be my authentic self, which because that's what you asked me to be. You that was straight up, you were like, this is what I want. It wasn't like you were like, I love you, I'm Rawai.com. Like, like you're so fucking funny. Will you please come play games with that? Right, and and listen, like I appreciate that.

But to but to have somebody reach out about like real the real shit that I'm fucking talking about. And I get to meet you guys and form a real relationship with you guys. And like I said, who fucking knows in two, five, ten years where we're gonna be and what we're gonna be doing. Well, like, I'm gonna be talking about this for like the next couple weeks, and then some it's just gonna all like you know, just talk about it, and then someone else is gonna resonate with it and it's gonna trickle for a second. And if it resonates with you, then like it's gonna resonate with somebody else.

[1:03:11] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[1:03:12] Matt Rodin: And to focus your energy on things that don't resonate with you, it's not worth it.

[1:03:16] Caleb Dicke: No, it's not worth it.

[1:03:17] Matt Rodin: You're wasting time.

[1:03:19] Caleb Dicke: No.

[1:03:19] Matt Rodin: Yeah. No, I mean that that's why we do it, is because we we enjoy talking to our friends who are also artists, because in this format, that's where we actually talk about things.

[1:03:29] Caleb Dicke: We guys learned a lot.

[1:03:30] Matt Rodin: Totally.

[1:03:31] Caleb Dicke: Oh my god.

[1:03:32] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[1:03:32] Caleb Dicke: That's my favorite part, is just talking with people. I mean we with our friends, and then with like even with like our last guest, Darius, I learned so much just from him, and he's one of my best friends.

[1:03:42] Matt Rodin: Dear friends, yeah.

[1:03:43] Caleb Dicke: I love that. We talked to we've talked, we talked to people, we we how many of how many episodes are we guys done?

[1:03:48] Matt Rodin: This is 23.

[1:03:50] Caleb Dicke: Oh my god, that's a lot.

[1:03:51] Matt Rodin: It's a lot. Yeah, and we you know, we talked to like, I mean, we talked with Jen, that one's worth its weight in gold. I mean, it's not doesn't even weigh anything, bitch, and it's gold. You know, and like Sherry Sanders, uh, ever I could every single episode and and as you guys, and as you continue to like bring people on, right? Like, then my network of people sees it, and then I say, hey, you know what? Here's somebody that I think you should like you should meet. I want you to meet this person. I think you you know what I mean? Like, it just it continues to grow and expand.

[1:04:25] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, but it's all about relationships.

[1:04:25] Matt Rodin: Okay, so Matt, on uh you don't know this about me, but I collect show t-shirts half my whole life, and I have a really impressive collection, wear them every day. Um, so on the show, I uh have a little segment called MERCH MADNESS where I review two shirts against each other in a versus format and choose a win.

[1:04:42] Matt Rodin: I love that. I love that.

[1:04:44] Caleb Dicke: So this is this week's uh London magical edition of MERCH MADNESS.

[1:04:57] Matt Rodin: Okay, so as you know, this week the uh the renovations on the lyric finished for the new Harry Potter for the new Harry Potter and the cursor. I'm going on in two weeks. I'm very excited. Lucky I got those tickets. I was drawn for an access time and forgot. Forgot. I had some other things going on that day.

[1:05:16] Matt Rodin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some other things.

[1:05:17] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[1:05:18] Matt Rodin: And uh forgot. Yeah, I'm doing a full day doing March 24th. If you want to see it.

[1:05:21] Caleb Dicke: So lucky.

[1:05:22] Matt Rodin: Yeah, I'm very excited. So I thought I'd uh review some shirts for my favorite uh magical shows from the UK.

[1:05:29] Caleb Dicke: Right.

[1:05:30] Matt Rodin: First up, I have my Matilda shirt. Fucking love Matilda. One of my favorites that I've ever seen. I think it's like a perfect production of musical. I think the world with the choreography is the best I've ever seen. This is a navy shirt. It has uh the Matilda logo in the white and blue. It's a pretty simple shirt, straightforward. Nothing fancy about it. It's good though. I love Matilda seeing it. I've seen it a million times. A million rush seats that's good, good like memories of like being obsessed with it, being really upset when it did it with Best Musical. Did you ever go in for that show?

[1:06:02] Matt Rodin: About a thousand times. Yep. I'm gonna ask the real questions. I'm not gonna split it around. And anyone who's I know how this industry works, I get it. Anyone who's been in for Matilda knows that if you still go in for Matilda, you don't have like one audition. Yo, go, you are a revolting child though. Yeah, you have an initial audition, and then you have a full day of auditioning, and then you have a day of singing after that, and then you have another day of like workshopping the full day of dancing. Like one audition from Matilda is like seven days.

[1:06:31] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, it's a lot.

[1:06:32] Matt Rodin: Anyway, moving on. Oh. So one of my most treasured possessions, actually. I just thought about this. My shirt's nice. This really makes me like proud. And we've talked about um The Lord of the Rings, the musical on our podcast before. Excellent. That cast recording is out of the world. It is gorgeous. I saw it in London in high school and got this shirt. It is a full-on child shirt because they did not have any other sizes. So it's a little short between the shortcuts. But it's black and it has this gorgeous Lord of the Rings, like woven wood majestic light shining behind it. And it says just London on the back. But didn't we? They had the Broadway ready to be a little bit of the ones, but those didn't get made. We polled our audience. And uh on my Instagram, 78% voted for Matilda.

[1:07:25] Matt Rodin: What?

[1:07:26] Caleb Dicke: As the winner of this week's merchantness, but 22% for Lord of the Rings.

[1:07:30] Matt Rodin: Man, that's this is not about a better musical. This is about a better shirt, right?

[1:07:33] Caleb Dicke: On Equity One Podcast on Instagram, 73% voted for Matilda, and 27% for Lord of the Rings.

[1:07:44] Caleb Dicke: Now, this is really interesting. The audience is voting highly in favor of Matilda. How do you feel? This is a really tough edition for me because the Matilda shirt, more practical, worn it more. It's been more part of my lexicon as far as show shirts have gone. But the excitement and the nostalgia of my Lord of the Rings shirt is really exciting. That's special. That's a special shirt.

[1:08:11] Matt Rodin: Yeah. And so I think this week, the audience is wrong. The winner of this week's MERCH MADNESS is my Lord of the Rings shirt, just because it's so fucking cool. I'm obsessed with that. It's so fucking cool. And it's like a collector's edition.

[1:08:27] Caleb Dicke: Yeah. And nobody got this. Um, would you ever put all your t-shirts like in a quilt? Like, is that what you're gonna do? Because that's what I wanted to do with my high school stuff.

[1:08:34] Matt Rodin: That's what my mind did. My own. I've thought about it a lot, and it would have to be. You have to do mine for me. My only stipulation, my only stipulation is that it would have to be an actual quilt.

[1:08:44] Caleb Dicke: Like, not like just squares of shirts.

[1:08:46] Matt Rodin: I would want each show like cut into like triangles, bitch, and made into like an actual quilt.

[1:08:53] Caleb Dicke: I mean, you gotta go on Etsy. I'm sure there's some or something.

[1:08:56] Matt Rodin: But right now I'm wearing it. There's been so I'm wear them, you wear them?

[1:08:59] Caleb Dicke: Every single day.

[1:09:01] Matt Rodin: Oh wow. You're like loud and proud.

[1:09:03] Caleb Dicke: Every single day.

[1:09:04] Matt Rodin: Alright, so sticking with your uh you love you, like you're awesome at games.

[1:09:10] Caleb Dicke: I appreciate that. You are the red carpet challenge. People love you at parties. Do you do games at parties?

[1:09:15] Matt Rodin: I'm a really have you ever have you played code names?

[1:09:19] Caleb Dicke: No, but I saw on your own.

[1:09:21] Matt Rodin: My god. I saw one of your YouTube videos that you're like code names is the same. I do I do like games. I'm a big I am I am a big games guy. I think um I I don't I don't I don't know. I the games for the red carpets, like are uh something very specific. I've done I've done like 75, almost 75 carpets now, which is 75 different games. I mean, obviously there's a couple like tropes that you can kind of stick with, you know, like a this or that, or like define what this means, or things like that.

[1:09:48] Matt Rodin: Um, but I do, I do very much enjoy the games because it catches people off guard. And what I also love about games is that it forces people to be like their most true selves. Like they're like they like the truth comes out in games. Do you know what I mean? Like it's even at sports. I'm like, the truth comes out.

[1:10:05] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[1:10:05] Matt Rodin: So that's why I like games. Well, here's how we always like to close our uh with a game series. Rapid fire. On contracts, they call me Camp Counselor Dickie, you know, like I don't know if we actually do. I got that once, but I'll stick with it.

[1:10:19] Caleb Dicke: Stick with it, yeah.

[1:10:20] Matt Rodin: Okay. So we're sticking with games. Quick, fast.

[1:10:24] Caleb Dicke: Zing Frozen, yeah.

[1:10:27] Matt Rodin: Name an iconic duo.

[1:10:28] Caleb Dicke: An iconic duo.

[1:10:29] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[1:10:30] Caleb Dicke: Uh Sonny and Cher.

[1:10:31] Matt Rodin: Right. Favorite Tanner Swift lyrics.

[1:10:35] Caleb Dicke: I am not a Tato Swift fan.

[1:10:37] Matt Rodin: Oh.

[1:10:37] Caleb Dicke: I'm a fan of her.

[1:10:38] Matt Rodin: I'm a fair of her. I'm fan of her.

[1:10:39] Caleb Dicke: Uh she's a good writer, not a good, not a good singer.

[1:10:41] Matt Rodin: So her lyrics are. The only one I really can remember.

[1:10:44] Caleb Dicke: Shake it off.

[1:10:44] Matt Rodin: How about that? That's a lyric. That's a great lyrics. The hater's gonna.

[1:10:47] Caleb Dicke: Oh, what's that?

[1:10:48] Matt Rodin: Player's gonna play my.

[1:10:51] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, that's a good one.

[1:10:52] Matt Rodin: Okay. Most used emojis.

[1:10:55] Caleb Dicke: Oh, mine?

[1:10:56] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[1:10:57] Caleb Dicke: The disco guy.

[1:10:58] Matt Rodin: Oh.

[1:10:59] Caleb Dicke: That's like my number one. Uh I'm looking it up on my phone.

[1:11:03] Matt Rodin: Um.

[1:11:05] Caleb Dicke: Oh, praise hands.

[1:11:06] Matt Rodin: Oh.

[1:11:07] Caleb Dicke: I'm a big thing.

[1:11:09] Matt Rodin: Both.

[1:11:09] Caleb Dicke: Both.

[1:11:09] Matt Rodin: They're both in my top five.

[1:11:10] Caleb Dicke: Okay.

[1:11:11] Matt Rodin: The prayer, the prayer hands, which people say is a high five, but it's not.

[1:11:13] Caleb Dicke: Prayer hands and also like praise hands.

[1:11:15] Matt Rodin: I call those up top. I love those. You know me. I'm very spiritual. That's my shit.

[1:11:18] Caleb Dicke: Okay, you're shopping at West Elm. Do you gravitate towards throw pillows, modern lighting, or sofas?

[1:11:24] Matt Rodin: Modern what?

[1:11:25] Caleb Dicke: Modern lighting.

[1:11:26] Matt Rodin: Lighting.

[1:11:27] Caleb Dicke: Oh I.

[1:11:28] Matt Rodin: Wow. I love sofas, but like I'm a big fan of lighting.

[1:11:32] Caleb Dicke: I love lighting too. My boyfriend would be throw pillows, but I think.

[1:11:35] Matt Rodin: Do you think it's the producer, and you're just like, we need that lighting.

[1:11:37] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[1:11:37] Matt Rodin: 100%. I just love I think cool lights are cool.

[1:11:40] Caleb Dicke: They're cool.

[1:11:41] Matt Rodin: It's atmospheric. You know?

[1:11:42] Caleb Dicke: Favorite Times Square costume character of time.

[1:11:46] Matt Rodin: Oh my god. Yesterday? I think it was yesterday or two days ago. There were guys walking around like generic people, like generic guys' faces.

[1:11:56] Caleb Dicke: Like costumes for like to promote like the big 10 network.

[1:11:59] Matt Rodin: But they weren't like any specific character. They were literally just like a white guy and a brown guy. And they had just like generic faces. And I was like, that's interesting. I was like, I don't know who you're trying to be.

[1:12:09] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, that's probably my favorite.

[1:12:11] Matt Rodin: Sure. TV show that has to be binged watched right now.

[1:12:15] Caleb Dicke: Um, queer I feel the straight guy.

[1:12:19] Matt Rodin: It is queer.

[1:12:19] Caleb Dicke: It's just sorry, queer eye, just queer eye.

[1:12:21] Matt Rodin: You just do it on your YouTube channel. It is so good, you guys.

[1:12:26] Caleb Dicke: Oh my god.

[1:12:29] Matt Rodin: Is it, or is it just like building upon stereotypes that we don't need in our society?

[1:12:33] Caleb Dicke: No.

[1:12:33] Matt Rodin: It's different. And I and listen to it. I hated the I hated series. I hated the first episode. I hated it.

[1:12:39] Caleb Dicke: Because?

[1:12:39] Matt Rodin: Because I thought it was just too like it was so many stereotypes that are in your face for that. And I think, and I do think there is some of that. I definitely think there is some of that. Only because like that's part of like the business of it that they need to lean into that.

[1:12:50] Caleb Dicke: But I will say by the end, like I I mean I wept it every episode. Um I I do think that like they cover, trust me, I want to see less stereotypical gay people in the media too. But I also think there's something too, and I haven't seen it yet, and I've heard they've done a good job of keeping it maybe less stereotypical than the original.

[1:13:08] Matt Rodin: But sometimes if you go in with the stereotype to begin with, it's more satisfying when you see these people as actual people the more you get to love them.

[1:13:18] Caleb Dicke: Yes.

[1:13:19] Matt Rodin: Yes, a hundred percent. As they they can let down that guard.

[1:13:22] Caleb Dicke: Yes. Any.

[1:13:23] Matt Rodin: Okay. Instagram accounts that you follow. Boys, animals, memes, or food.

[1:13:30] Caleb Dicke: Boys, memes. Not memes, not food.

[1:13:34] Matt Rodin: Um not really animals.

[1:13:37] Caleb Dicke: I mean, like, there's a lot of boys, but some like some boys.

[1:13:41] Matt Rodin: Shirtless boys or just like see, but like no. Like, that's what's weird is I'm like, well, Tumblr's a different story. But yeah, but uh Instagram, but Instagram no. Instagram I need to like re-carry my feed, because I just follow friends right now, and I'm like, I'm sick, I'm sick.

[1:14:00] Caleb Dicke: I took that picture for you.

[1:14:01] Matt Rodin: Okay. Proudest moment.

[1:14:02] Caleb Dicke: Proudest moment?

[1:14:03] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[1:14:04] Caleb Dicke: Um getting to uh getting getting to sit down and have a real legit conversation with Jason Moraz. That that was uh that was a really problem with me. A lot of work to went into like getting to that place, and I feel like I'm like, I I deserve I own to that, yeah.

[1:14:25] Caleb Dicke: Okay, so it's MERCH MADNESS.

[1:14:27] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[1:14:28] Caleb Dicke: What's your basketball team that you're rooting for? And if not basketball, what new musical are you rooting for?

[1:14:34] Matt Rodin: Oh musical! Oh yes. Girl, I'm gonna I'm I'm rooting for Spongebob. I love that shit. I love Spongebob. I love Team Vans visit.

[1:14:44] Caleb Dicke: I mean, listen, that's probably what's gonna end up happening, only because I just have no idea.

[1:14:48] Matt Rodin: I do.

[1:14:48] Caleb Dicke: No, I think I think I think it's a deep cut. I think it's uh I think it's um D cuts don't always win though.

[1:14:54] Matt Rodin: I I don't know, I just got a feeling about the Jews, you know.

[1:14:56] Caleb Dicke: I love it.

[1:14:57] Matt Rodin: But I love Spongebob. I love it onward.

[1:15:01] Caleb Dicke: Interview that just bombed.

[1:15:03] Matt Rodin: An interview that bombed? Oh my god. I have done You don't have to say their name by like No, I will tell you. Um I there are plenty of there are a handful of people, Victor Garber being one of them, that I have like been like, oh, we're gonna play a game. He's like, I don't play games. And then they walk away.

[1:15:17] Caleb Dicke: That's happened to me like a c a handful of times.

[1:15:18] Matt Rodin: Which, like, I respect that. Fair enough if you're a victoria.

[1:15:21] Caleb Dicke: Yes, because well, no, because I would rather somebody say to me, like, I don't play games, then I try to play a game with them, and they're like nasty and negative.

[1:15:28] Matt Rodin: Yeah, and you're like, um I've had I've had Patty Le Pone playing a game on the opening of uh whatever that was. War paint was a little that was a little rough.

[1:15:37] Caleb Dicke: Oh, that's a little

[1:15:39] Matt Rodin: She just wasn't here for it. Yeah, and I would suppose like an inappropriate game, and like it just wasn't, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:15:43] Caleb Dicke: Okay. Top three book suggestions.

[1:15:46] Matt Rodin: Start with why. Brave in the Wilderness by Renee Brown. And um The War of Art.

[1:15:53] Caleb Dicke: By by uh I think it's I'm gonna say Steven Prushville, but I don't know if that's right, but The War of Art.

[1:15:58] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[1:15:59] Caleb Dicke: Best restaurant food vendor in NYC.

[1:16:02] Matt Rodin: Dollar Pizza.

[1:16:03] Caleb Dicke: Yes.

[1:16:04] Matt Rodin: Not even no, there's a dollar pizza place by my apartment that's literally the best dollar pizza in the entire city, and it's my it's the best.

[1:16:10] Caleb Dicke: So perfect day off.

[1:16:13] Matt Rodin: Perfect day off. Do you really want to know?

[1:16:16] Caleb Dicke: Yes.

[1:16:17] Matt Rodin: Well Tumblr. Like one of them is sitting on my couch and uh doing nothing and just like relaxing and listening to music and and just taking a chill. I'm a really I'm a homebody. I like I'm a I'm a hermit. I like to be at home.

[1:16:35] Caleb Dicke: Um or like a full-out day of like hiking adventure or like that.

[1:16:39] Matt Rodin: I love that too. I love, I just I love lakes. I love trees.

[1:16:43] Caleb Dicke: Yeah.

[1:16:44] Matt Rodin: Um, someone who you really want to work with.

[1:16:48] Caleb Dicke: Someone who I really want to work with.

[1:16:53] Matt Rodin: I mean, like I don't I can go back and say Jason Raz, man. Or Simon. Like, you know, there's people. I really want to work with people that uh are putting out positive energy into the world. That's the truth.

[1:16:59] Caleb Dicke: I really want to work with people that um like like are like good human beings and are and are helping other human beings.

[1:17:12] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[1:17:12] Caleb Dicke: Yeah. Alright. Last thing, we're having a really chaotic day. What makes you feel centered? Like what brings you back to breathing.

[1:17:19] Matt Rodin: Breathing. Breathing. Yeah, man. I mean, even today, this afternoon, I was all of a sudden there were a bunch, there was just a bunch of shit going on, emails and like you know, guitar and a backpack and running here and going to pick up gear after this, and like crazy day. And it's just like always breath.

[1:17:32] Caleb Dicke: I heard something great the other day that was like the only thing that's with us from Jay Shetty. The only way that's with us, the only thing that's with us from the moment that we're born until the moment that we pass is our breath.

[1:17:43] Matt Rodin: It's the only thing that is with us from for that entire journey. And through everything, it is like it is like it is a sen it is the center. Like if you can, if you can just take the the beat to like take the deep breath, and even like take a breath and like let out some fucking sound, like uh yeah, I to me it it's it's gotta be breath or Jason Raz music.

[1:18:09] Caleb Dicke: Or weed.

[1:18:10] Matt Rodin: Yeah. Song. Those are those are those would be my three. But definitely breath.

[1:18:14] Caleb Dicke: Alright. We've loved having you on. This was so much fun. You guys, I am so I really am very grateful that you guys asked me to do this. I'm like, I'm bl yeah.

[1:18:24] Matt Rodin: Our pleasure.

[1:18:24] Caleb Dicke: Yeah. I think awesome. It's very nice to feel, like you said before, it's very nice to feel like the stuff I'm doing is connecting with people and like to be included in a show that is uh like centered around Broadway and has people that are involved that are like in that community. It like it just validates everything that I'm doing, and I and so like I really really really am grateful.

[1:18:44] Matt Rodin: Well, we appreciate you. Where can our listeners find you if they'd like to check out your amazing YouTube channel or your if you type in Mr. Matt Rodin or Matt Rodin into Google, you'll find all that shit. But it's Mr. Matt Rodin on all the socials, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, all the things.

[1:19:02] Caleb Dicke: But always, I'm like a good old Google search. That shit old. That'll give you all the shit.

[1:19:09] Caleb Dicke: Yes.

[1:19:14] Matt Rodin: I just chugged a beer.

[1:19:15] Caleb Dicke: I know. I'm going to see a show.

[1:19:17] Matt Rodin: Yeah, but let it go, bitch.

[1:19:21] Caleb Dicke: Um, you can find our show at Equity One Podcast on Instagram and Facebook. And you can find us on Twitter at Equity One underscore.

[1:19:29] Matt Rodin: And please email us at equity1podcast at gmail.com.

[1:19:32] Caleb Dicke: And if you haven't subscribed yet and you're listening right now, what the fuck is wrong with you? Subscribe.

[1:19:36] Matt Rodin: Just subscribe.

[1:19:37] Caleb Dicke: And and you know what? If you really want to offer them something of value, go take the fucking two minutes that it takes. It literally takes two fucking minutes to go rate the show and write a nice review. Be like, heard this interview, it was great, or love this, or just write one fucking word.

[1:19:53] Matt Rodin: Be like, love ya. Like, I don't give a shit. Just take the time because that really provides them value. It helps the show get discovered. Just like go and do it. Just do it.

[1:20:02] Caleb Dicke: You heard it from the expert himself. So please.

[1:20:07] Matt Rodin: This is so wonderful.

[1:20:07] Caleb Dicke: Yeah, just if you if you can, we'd really appreciate a good rate and review. Five stars, don't give us anything else.

[1:20:13] Matt Rodin: Come on. If you're not gonna give us five stars, then don't even do it. Okay?

[1:20:17] Caleb Dicke: Elliot, where can we find you at?

[1:20:19] Elliott Mattox: You can find me at ElliotMattox on everything.

[1:20:22] Caleb Dicke: You can find me at Caleb Dicke on everything as well.

[1:20:24] Elliott Mattox: Alright. Until next time, boys.

[1:20:26] All: Cheers.

[1:20:28] Matt Rodin: Yes!

[1:20:30] ♪ Musical number: "Song Title" — performed by Matt Rodin ♪