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[0:00] Jess Rothschild: Hello and welcome to Finding Fire Island. I'm your host Jess and this is a special bonus episode filled with material that just didn't quite fit into a narrative but was too good to leave on the cutting room floor and not share in some capacity. I also want to say I have loved hearing from everyone on Instagram so please DM me anytime at jessxnyc on Instagram and maybe I'll even see you out there on the island. Let's begin with Margaret Cho pontificating on our other favorite gay summer spot, Provincetown.

[0:43] Margaret Cho: I love summer gay life. Provincetown is the one real place that I go to. Provincetown is my true summer home. I really I want to buy a cemetery plot in the cemetery there actually that's where I because it's only $500 and Ryan Landry who's like my best friend has already bought his and I want to buy one next to him but I want to buy 12 so that they're in the shape of a clock so we could get 12 gays so we could have a sundial.

[1:18] Michael Musto: That is absurd and I love it.

[1:19] Margaret Cho: Isn't that stupid? It's so dumb but it's like and I want to be the 12 but then we could have like the 12 gays we have like a clock just a big gay sundial. I think it would be nice to have there it's a nice cemetery and it's right by the kind of by the water and it would be great to have like some nice cemetery sex and some guys to have some cemetery sex over over by your grave.

[1:47] Michael Musto: This is legendary Village Voice columnist Michael Musto on why he prefers P-Town over Fire Island but still finds time to go to the underwear party. This first appeared in my interview with Michael Musto on Hot Takes and Deep Dives so definitely subscribe to that if you aren't already.

[2:05] Michael Musto: I prefer Cherry Grove which is more diverse the Pines is more it's uppity white guys there are no cars there's no traffic so you find yourself schlepping in the heat through these wooden planks sometimes for hours so that's a problem for me. Pines you know what I've put down the points but I still have a great time at the Pines I have a great when I go to Fire Island either of those communities it's like the second coming of Jesus Christ I'm very respected there and I do like attention but the Pines is primarily gay professionals they're all 32 years old they all go there to work out for their health and then do drugs but I do find once you go either through the meat rack or you take the water taxi to the groves it's diverse it's it's more lesbians it's it's more honkytonk I always have a great time I can just stand outside the grocery store and meet and greet and it's really fantastic and impromptu out I could fill entire days impromptu without having anything on the schedule I used to go for the film festival and now I'm like I don't want to be in a screening room during the day I'd rather just be hanging out at the town square or just riding a bike I adore prom so I'm way more than even Fire Island because it's a city it's also beautiful it has seafood it has drag queens I'm certain you are friends with Daniel Nardicio who produces the nightlife events on Fire Island.

[3:25] Michael Musto: Oh yeah I've known him for many years I used to be on his radio show and we did live shows called the shit show with me him and Bianca Del Rio before I became famous I mean before Bianca became famous but yeah he does the underwear parties of Fire Island which I went to once it's like I really don't belong here nobody wants to see someone my age even in even fully clothed which I was but you're like a fish out of water what am I doing here.

[3:48] Paul Rudnick: This is screenwriter Paul Rudnick's Fire Island origin story well my Fire Island origin story goes back probably over 30 years when I'd first gotten to New York totally broke had no idea where anything was and I was lucky enough I had no idea about that at the time a friend lent me his shack and this is back when Fire Island was very shack friendly for a weekend all by myself and I didn't even know anyone out there and I figured out how to get there and the main thing I remember is that when I woke up there on the first morning I heard splashing and then I realized that there were porn stars who were in the shack next door to me shooting a film and then when they were on breaks between scenes they would go to the pool on the other house on the other side of me and I thought okay I'm basically in paradise now so it's just delicious and it was the best introduction and there it's there's no place like it.

[4:47] Paul Rudnick: What year was that lord only knows probably sometime early 80s there are no cars which is somehow a great leveler and a great relaxant as well and a great antidepressant you do not have to walk both ways although people have been frequently known to get drunk and fall off the boardwalks and break things like their limbs but I think I always I'm such a hardcore New Yorker that I loved how accessible it was you know I know people love justifiably love Provincetown but that's still on track you know you really have to make plans it's more expensive but the Pines is just there.

[5:17] Paul Rudnick: As we mentioned in the series nightlife empresario Daniel Nardicio took over the ice palace this year from its previous owner a straight guy who was universally disliked and had a reputation for running the ice palace into the ground and he's not a nice guy and I really had a hard time because he we everything we did succeeded in spite of him not because of him he could have supported us but it was always like someone once said to me years ago you'll never be happy if you're counting other people's money and I felt like he would sit there and go he's making so much money at the door and I'd be like you're making so much money at the bar and you could be making more money at the bar if you're focused on the bar it's a little bit like the Pines they focused so much on trying to compete against me on Fridays which never were in the Pines that now they have shitty Saturdays because they're trying to do everything on Friday and it's like I went out to the island when I went 25 years ago I looked for a slot where nothing was going on and I filled that slot you're literally looking how can we take from Daniel not even just Daniel but the people that are enjoying it how can we make it like less crowded so they're not gonna enjoy it like you're trying to take joy from people and I just think Dr. Frank was every year he'd go to his staff and be like is there a way we can take the underwear party ourselves and they would go you're gonna run into the ground you're straight veterinarian and not likable.

[6:43] Daniel Nardicio: I also asked Daniel what his feeling was on women going to the weekly underwear party in Cherry Grove I love them but I also think like I think about heterosexuals straight women I just think be sensitive to the environment it's a tough one because they're like my sister but as long as they don't infringe upon the sort of more private areas you know there's this like oh let's go look making fun of and laughing thing that happens that I think gay men you know we talk so much about safe spaces but we generally talk about it for trans individuals who talk about it more so for women and I they definitely need it I think gay men have a right to say we want the space to ourselves but when you do you got to be careful because then open a whole Pandora's box people getting upset so I think women should be a little respectful of that maybe say you know what that's not really although we have a straight bartender from the pines that brings his girlfriend in the back room and bangs or so I mean and everyone seems to enjoy that so I guess it's like whatever you know I guess it's like an as-needed basis or whatever.

[7:57] Jess Rothschild: One of my favorite topics of discussion is the deleted Real Housewives of New York scene where Bethany goes to the Fire Island Pines I recently put this scene up on my Instagram at Jess X NYC if you want to take a peek here I am with Countess Luann's cabaret director Ben Rimalower have you ever seen the deleted Roni scene where Bethany goes to Fire Island iconic love I will one of my happiest moments on Fire Island was 2010 I was trying to get over a broken heart and my friend Jeffrey said let's go to Fire Island we'll just find some shitty extra bed somewhere to stay and we'll just go for the night because we were so broke but we wound up it was my last year there on drugs we wound up taking ecstasy and hanging out on the roof all night but I remember like the peak of my experience was when Jeffrey told me that he saw me as like a Bethany a gay Bethany Frankel and I remember just like looking at the waves on the ocean as the ecstasy rolled in my brain just being like yeah that's who I am I'm Bethany Frankel.

[9:00] Brian Moylan: Speaking of housewives here's the king of the vulture recaps Brian Moylan I will say I can't believe I'm saying this out loud but I'm gonna say it the only STI I ever got was on Fire Island and it was like Friday night it was when I was working the underwear party that summer and I was showing symptoms at the underwear party and I was like oh girl I need to go to the clinic so the next morning the clinic is open from like it's either 11 to noon or noon to 1 and I got there our house was right next to the clinic and I got there like 15 minutes early and there was already a line of like fags out the door and I got in and she's like what's wrong and I was like oh STI there's discharge and she's like we're treating it all and they just gave me like every shot every pill I could need sent me on my way didn't charge me a dime and I was like this right here is gay brotherhood ladies and gentlemen I mean thank you for your service Fire Island Pies I don't why why was I telling you the story what did you ask about it wasn't STI.

[10:07] Matt Rogers: This is comedian and actor Matt Rogers with a real behind-the-scenes look at the Fire Island movie because I know you only filmed on Fire Island for two weeks but the total shoot was like six weeks which pieces were filmed on like a soundstage I will blow your mind so this is some movie magic behind the scenes for everyone that's seen the movie everything exterior outside at the end the Fire Island Pines was shot in the Fire Island Pines except the house where we stay was shot on Long Island Margaret's house that we that we that's our house in the movie that was shot in Old Westbury the rich people's house was shot in Sands Point so that was all the way up on North Shore Long Island like you know where all those mansions are and the pavilion and the Ice Palace are sets so we did not actually shoot inside those interior exterior transitions like from the Ice Palace underwear party to the inside to outside inside like they're seamless they really recreated the pivot I was certain you filmed the pavilion at the pavilion we did not so we went when we're doing the karaoke scene singing the sometimes by Britney Spears and then we go outside that is weeks apart and we shot the pavilion on a set in Brooklyn and then we walked outside and we were shooting actually on the pavilion doc but yeah that was that was just directed and edited and designed so seamlessly because all those interiors are sets and also I think there might have been a little bit of drama with the pantry because you know a lot of what we talk about in regards to the pantry is how expensive it is and then denting cans to try to get like you know discounts but we we made sure to throw in some really positive things about the pantry too because it is iconic and as long as we got to represent like a true pantry girl we succeeded were there any alternate titles like was it ever potentially going to be called the pines or what were some of the alternate titles one title that was thrown out there was pines like just and then the pines I liked pines because I thought it meant like pining but also it was the pines like ultimately I do think Fire Island is the best title but Joel really wanted it to be called trip it was actually originally called trip at Quibi and then it changed but you know there was of course like the first thought thing to call it like pines and prejudice which I'm really happy we did it.

[12:42] Jess Rothschild: Let's get serious for a minute and discuss the annual blackout weekend that did exist for 11 years before being canceled. The blackout weekend was a popular beach party which celebrated and drew thousands of black and brown folks to the island each year. I chatted about this with Tom McDash the founder of Bebek the black and brown equity coalition.

[13:04] Tomik Dash: Yeah the blackout weekend basically was this huge weekend where

[13:08] Victor Jeffreys: Folks came out to hang out on the beach in Cherry Grove and from what I've heard because this was like one of the first things that we tried to get information on was like why did it go away it was like so big apparently I heard from some people that it got too big for just the logistics of the community which sounds weird to me because it's like when you see things happening like the pines party or the invasion how could blackout get too big. The official press release says that while thousands of people attended fire island blackout the reality is that only a handful of people actually purchased the admission bracelets so therefore they weren't able to recoup their expenses meaning beach cleanup trash removal security tents and they did note this significant disparity between the number of people who were buying the admission bracelets and those who attended the event and I've also heard people just say that they didn't reach out to the community associations and try to like work with them I guess regarding logistics and the community did not like everybody coming out and I've heard that they were really more kind of like driven out.

[14:26] Victor Jeffreys: Here's Victor Jeffreys who helped run bebek alongside Tom McDash. Victor chatted about the weird relationship between the presidents of the pines and Cherry Grove when it comes to working with bebek. I mean if I remember correctly Henry Robin who is now I think three years in as the president of FOPOA when we first started doing this work which was literally at the beginning of his tenure he expressed to me that he didn't have a relationship didn't have a relationship with basically his equivalent in the Grove. It has developed over time but that to me is crazy and I'm guessing that it was similar before it's just kind of the way it is right but you know so it's just funny to me it's like you become the president of the United States you know that first night or the second day you pick up the phone and you start calling and there's a list and there's an order and people get mad you call me first you call me second whatever but it's like you would assume that the other faggot place right down the street would be the first place you call but somehow it is not and hopefully that changes but it's like if they come after us team we should be working together and I'm not saying we're working against each other but we should be better friends like what is going on.

[15:40] Victor Jeffreys: Victor and I also chatted about the police presence in the pines it's tricky you know you talk about police people get very very sensitive why because you know the police have a good relationship with the pines and we get a huge pass like doing drugs and sucking dick on the boardwalk and not getting in trouble and that's great and wonderful and people have died out there but the idea of talking about like why are there more police walking through the boardwalks because we all know from a statistical perspective the first person to get in trouble by a cop is a black or brown person and so okay so that makes us a little you know feel a little weird so we should talk to the police well a lot of the establishment organizations do not want to do that why because they want to preserve the already kind of I'll turn away I'll look to the other way kind of relationship this is a tricky thing right.

[16:51] Margaret Cho: So somehow when I was chatting with Margaret Cho about the legendary notable figures of fire island like the writers and artists this is where her mind went so it's just continuing to acknowledge that and to memorialize the important figures whether that's Robin Bird or or Jack. Jack was this guy who uh he died recently but he gave the best blowjobs on the island and anybody that lived there for any period of time got a blowjob from him and because he had no teeth so he would take out his dentures and just really go to town and that's the thing that like you know Jack was to everything Jack if you needed weed he would bring you marijuana he would have it he would be like have such a huge stash on the island you could go to him for that or a blowjob or whatever and he lived into his I think 90s and was sucking and smoking the whole time so you know that's the reason why we should buy a house there.

[17:48] Joel Kim Booster: Here is Joel Kim Booster's origin story it's hard to know when I first learned about fire island because I think it since I've been you know coming of age as a gay man it's it's always sort of been a fixture uh more so an idea than an actual place I think at least at the beginning I think like fire island has always been a punchline about you know a gay place to go I think like especially coming up in comedy I think like fire island has served as a sort of shorthand for just a generic gay place where it's it's sort of like the home planet for gay men is sort of the idea that you get when you listen to especially like straight comics talking about fire island.

[18:35] Joel Kim Booster: Joel Kim Booster also randomly told me a story about an acid trip on the island that involved watching a cat give birth. One of my favorite memories from fire island was um it was the end of the week it was you know Tuesday or Wednesday before we left the island the island had sort of emptied out and we decided to drop acid um and it was my first time doing acid and it was the perfect place to do it because it was out in nature we started on the beach we walked back to our house and we just proceeded to have one of the most like magical transformative days I've ever had thanks to the acid. I mean I just we were running around the island it felt like we were the only people there um we saw so many things that I I'm still not sure what is real and what is what is the acid from from that day um what did you say we well at one point we stumbled upon a cat that had just given birth and there is nothing quite like uh again it is that that mix of like nature right there in front of you like you reach out and touch it sort of tranquility of it all it was it was insane I mean we were like are we literally seeing the beginning of life while we're on acid on fire island.

[20:01] Christopher Rawlins: Here's architect Christopher Rawlins with a bit more on sharehouse culture. I think that one thing that is very unique about the pines and I suppose Cherry Grove as well is that the norm there is for people to share houses even when they're making a lot of money and over 40 and most people are done sharing much of anything by that point but it's just very much a part of our culture is that communality and for example in my own house you know we're a varied group of people all different ages all different interests we're all out doing our thing during the day but we all gather for dinner it's just part of the ritual of being out there and I think that it creates a sort of sense of closeness and community that as people go through the trajectory of their lives and do all the things that they think constitute a successful life in terms of affluence a lot of those things really isolate you if you're just say with a spouse and not with friends and sharing all of those experiences on a daily basis and you know I really love New York City but it's so vast that it's really hard to create a social life that entirely gels and because fire island is compact and walkable and we share houses there is this sense of repetition and spontaneously running into people which really is a lot of the basis for friendships developing.

[21:37] DJ Lina Bradford: Finally here's more from my interview with DJ Lina Bradford talking about the marketing campaign she turned out how she organized which music to play each night and also why she left after 10 years. So then from there I created Thursdays Fridays Saturdays and Sundays I was doing four nights a week Thursdays was called rewind Thursdays it was my 80s night it was the introduction when everybody starts their a or b side of the island you know how it works and it was so much fun because I love 80s music but as you know myself is never cheesy or um commercial it's obscure shit and people are like where she turns 80s to Fridays was Lena's lounge sexy you know centra pay you know all that kind of sexiness and the Saturday was Saturdays was called go bigger go home the beats are bigger it's Saturday night boom Sunday became the legendary TBS throwback Sunday classics my famous disco night it was insane and then I started turning out the marketing and I was like to PJ's like okay I want t-shirts I want fierce visuals with the the posters and they need to go up but this is time and they need to be in this neighborhood and blah blah I mean honey I turned and I had the best photographers I mean I turned out that campaign shower curtains t-shirts everything pillows people were gagging and they had it all.

[22:58] DJ Lina Bradford: Talk to me about how you would document but isn't it crazy like from what you were talking about the beginning like this fire island seems so different from what's going on now that it's like wait but honey that was only eight years ago nine years ago it's because there are no stars there now well I shouldn't say that no no no you're not on this level no no no no and I would you know the thing is that they're me me me people I was about the community it wasn't about me it was about me being the person that brings the facility a facilitator bringing people together that's the difference and when I left I wanted it to be about everything that I brought and put together that soul and not just with the music but that soul that I gave I wanted that to say it didn't I had to be that one and I could still be there today but I said after 10 years I'm just done the internet started while I was there you know I was missing out and I was also living in London at the time 10 years is a long time to be on that island April to October why would you have to be there from April to October I enjoyed it I loved it so much I opened my house in uh April Fool's Day I flew back from Europe in May to uh shoot the the campaign and then I'd open the house in um April 1st we then would start Lena's lounge um on my birthday so I opened the season in April because you know all the owners and people it's the best time the beginning and the end of the season is just it's so pure and special and beautiful when you listen to the sounds back then it was about the vocals it was so vocal and I think that's why I was so um welcomed is because I did that and that's the school I come from like when I did low t I made certain that it was like you were at paradise garage I know how to morph and you can't go in there playing pots and pans and you know think that that's how it's going to be in the afternoon nobody wants to hear that not everybody's twisted on fucking you know whatever baby it should be spiritual and sexy and beautiful and instruments and vocals so mother comes from that so that's what I gave you the whole time I was out there in different carnations you know I said afternoon situations that's what needs to happen there and that's why everything I did worked because it was all done with soul and with instruments and vocals wasn't pots and pans you know you can go to pavilion late night for that.

[26:10] DJ Lina Bradford: You have this great quote you said you said you're gonna feel my music if you've got soul in you and even if you don't have soul in you I'll find it that was a good one it's true because we all have it just like we all have an innate um gift inside of us to have spirituality but others don't work on it it's if you choose to we have all these things we're all created equally but yet we are all so segregated because of what society has given us a blueprint of.