This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jonathan Cook: You know, crazy enough, I've been trying to get John on for a while now. Like every couple of months I reach out and I'm like, hey John, come on the podcast. We'll get together. Have a few laughs.

[0:23] Jonathan Cook: Welcome back to Gather by the Ghost Light. I'm Jonathan Cook, your host, producer, and sometimes voice actor on this thing.

[0:30] Devon McSherry: And I'm Devon McSherry, the Hannah to his Jimmy Fuggin Leeds.

[0:34] Devon McSherry: And that will make sense in just a minute. Because we have an amazing guest today.

[0:40] Jonathan Cook: Playwright and screenwriter, John Pollono will be joining us, and we are going to dive into his writing journey from his stage productions to his theatrical releases, which includes RIFF RAFF, which hits theaters February 28th, and it's got a stellar cast. You gotta go see it.

[0:55] Devon McSherry: Yeah, hell yeah, it does. And uh if you haven't seen the trailer for that yet, go check it out. But first, here is our interview with John Pollono.

[1:02] Jonathan Cook: Polono?

[1:03] Devon McSherry: Polano?

[1:03] Jonathan Cook: Wait, Pollono or Polano? Let's find out.

[1:16] John Pollono: Is it Pollono or Polano? I've heard it pronounced in different ways. Pologono is the correct Italian pronunciation, but awesome.

[1:22] John Pollono: Well that's what we'll go with. I grew up in the Northeast. It was Polano, so I answered to both.

[1:26] Jonathan Cook: Okay. All right, well, we'll say John Pollono, uh writer, director, actor, written plays, uh, written movies. Your new movie, RIFF RAFF, releases on February 28th.

[1:38] Jonathan Cook: Uh I've seen the trailer. It has such a stellar cast. You got Bill Murray, Ed Harris, Jennifer Coolidge, uh Pete Davidson, Gabrielle Union. So many great actors in this film.

[1:49] Jonathan Cook: Uh combine that with your masterful storytelling and your dialogue that you write, and I think we have a pretty, pretty, pretty great movie people are gonna be able to see next week. Excited to see it.

[2:01] John Pollono: For sure. You'll like it, Jonathan.

[2:03] Jonathan Cook: I think all right. Before we get into that, can we have you just in a nutshell tell us how your theater and writing and film career began? What brought you to writing?

[2:17] John Pollono: Oh, um let's see. So I, you know, I always wanted to make movies, and I moved out after, you know, digging ditches and trying hitchhiking across the country and wasting time. I moved out in my sort of mid-twenties to LA and had a bunch of really shitty screenplays. Can I swear on this?

[2:38] Jonathan Cook: Oh, no, you totally can.

[2:39] John Pollono: Yeah, it's all good. Uh yeah, I wrote a bunch of shitty screenplays that were very sort of derivative of other movies. And I was working in the mail room at Castle Rock Entertainment, and I had a good buddy who I still know to this day. This was like in 2000, uh, my buddy Phil Centani, another Italian.

[2:56] John Pollono: Yeah, he was taking an acting class. So I went and took this class under the pretense of like, oh, if you're uh it'll help you be a writer, which I do agree with. If you want to be a writer, learn how to act, um, whether you want to be an actor or not, just to sort of get that.

[3:09] John Pollono: And you go to this acting conservatory and um, you know, work your way up. I was like the stage manager because I could barely afford it. And then eventually you get up to these sort of master classes, and then you study theater. You study plays.

[3:22] John Pollono: You know, they don't give you like Pulp Fiction or you know, Gray's Anatomy to do those scenes. It's not that. You're studying these like things. And I mean, I didn't in where I grew up, I didn't really have much exposure to theater.

[3:34] John Pollono: And I started reading these plays and doing these plays in class, and I was just electric, you know, the best these classics that I, you know, any fool who studied it would have known, but I I didn't, and it really kind of rewired me.

[3:48] John Pollono: And then I started writing, you know, monologues in class, and then I started writing scenes for other students in it and one act plays, scene, you know, and then I really just started developing my voice, and we started a theater company.

[4:03] John Pollono: Um my wife who I met in the class, she and I started dating. We were pals forever, and we started this theater company, and then we got pregnant really quick and got married really quick, and then we're still married. It's awesome.

[4:14] John Pollono: But we had this baby, and it was kind of like, wow, I have to really um, you know, shitter get off the pot. You know, for me, it was like daydreaming about it and sort of being distracted, and quite frankly, being single in LA and spending so much time like just trying to like, you know, date and you know, live that life, which I had never had before.

[4:34] John Pollono: Um, it was very consuming. So then it really gave me this focus. So I started writing plays, and you get an immediate reaction when you write theater, you know, it's up the audience tells you.

[4:46] John Pollono: I believe this, and it's certainly the case with me is that the audience tells you more about your voice as a writer than anything else. If I write a script and best case scenario, you know, they're shooting it in a year, and then you a year later you're doing a test screening, you're finally getting that reaction with theater.

[5:02] John Pollono: It's very instant. Yeah, and you just get a sense uh of what works and what doesn't, especially if you have a certain audience. So yeah, I cut my teeth that way. I started writing play after play, and with not really mostly focused on the work and just creating art.

[5:21] John Pollono: And I did that for a while, and I had a couple of pretty successful plays. Then I started signing with better agents, and they were using this was around you know 2012-ish, where they were using my plays as a writing sample.

[5:39] John Pollono: At that time, it was kind of a new thing. I had written some scripts, including RIFF RAFF, which I wrote a long time ago, which is an adaptation of a play. And but they were like, Lick and man, you know, everybody sends out a uh a screenplay.

[5:53] John Pollono: Let's have them read your plays. And that really kicked the door open because it was a much more unfiltered version of my voice, the voice I had sort of developed in theater.

[6:02] John Pollono: And now then it became the playwrights, especially became very much a thing in the subsequent years where mostly for staffing TV, because theater inevitably you're good at character and and and dialogue and things like that.

[6:16] John Pollono: But I I got in the film world, and then you know, my first big thing was this movie Stronger, which took place uh right near where I grew up, and the producers and stuff had just read my plays, and they're like, wow, he has the voice of this.

[6:28] John Pollono: And it was a it was a book that when you read it, um you weren't you couldn't really see the movie. I mean, I wasn't getting offered much, so I really marinated on it and and over-serviced it in a way that you know five years later I probably would have passed on that book because I'm like, where's the fucking movie?

[6:48] John Pollono: But I really spent time with it, and I really spent time with the family, and I and I and I put the type of work that you kind of need to, but um dedicated myself to it, and that you know, that really took off, and then that led to some other things, and I I still kept writing plays for a while at least.

[7:03] John Pollono: And but then you kind of I think the key to writing is your the voices, your voice is the most important thing, and the theater really showcased my specific voice, so it's like hey if you like this voice hire me but um and I've been hired subsequently for a couple of things that are not necessarily in my so-called wheelhouse which I had fun with but uh you know it's built in and they will come so that's that's where I've sort of carved out something um that's sort of how that happened and then the you know theater has been very very good to me it's where I met my wife my close friends I got you know some of the biggest things I was ever cast on in TV and film were as a result of me being on the stage and people seeing it and in those cases were stuff that I had written and it was just sort of that thing.

[7:50] John Pollono: I I guess I didn't know any better. You know I I've known a lot of people who have tried to replicate a similar thing and to varying degrees of success and it just sort of happened to me not necessarily by accident but I literally was just like I don't know what's gonna happen from this I'm just gonna express myself and kind of like what you guys do when you put up a play out there or whatever you're doing it you're not expecting you know uh Chris Nolan's not gonna be in the audience but you just do it because you love it.

[8:14] Jonathan Cook: You know and and and I and I believe that if you do stuff like that then you know things will gravitate towards you.

[8:21] Devon McSherry: Yeah you mentioned the uh the theater you started where you we're talking about the the jabber walkie that eventually became Rogue Machine theater.

[8:21] John Pollono: That's exactly right yeah are you still involved with Rogue Machine theater?

[8:32] John Pollono: Yeah I am I mean there was definitely a heyday where my wife and I and our daughter like lived in the theater and built it um and you know things change kids get older we got another kid and and you know my wife just did a play there.

[8:44] John Pollono: But I I you know I'm on the board. Um go to support everything. Certainly if I have a play, then that would be the first place I would go, but um definitely not as involved as I used to be just because I'm sort of in my earning years now, and yeah, then the niche that like the itch that got scratched by doing a play, which is a incredible amount of time and energy you put in, and there's not really any money.

[9:07] John Pollono: I've sort of transitioned that itch into making my own films and directing more. Um, but I mean uh theater hasn't gone away and I love it, and it's still nothing beats it. I'm very excited to go back.

[9:23] Devon McSherry: Yeah, you gotta do what you can when you can. But uh makes sense to go for the money while it's there.

[9:30] John Pollono: Hey, yeah, you gotta ride where the momentum is, and yeah.

[9:34] Devon McSherry: So my first experience with uh with a John Pollono play was uh our local theater, Le Chade Noir. They were doing your play a decade ago, a small engine repair.

[9:43] Devon McSherry: And I remember I read the script and I was like, this is a pretty pretty cool little I this little different. I like it. Um and then when I went to see it, and you know, La Chate Noir always gets the best actors, and they did such a great job adapting that from the page to the stage.

[9:55] Devon McSherry: Um and I was just I was thrilled to see it. It was a great piece of work. Um and then their next season, um we know the owner pretty well, and he'll reach out and be like, You guys got any suggestions?

[10:05] Devon McSherry: And I was like, Well, let me see if this Pollono guy has anything else that uh we can uh we can look at. And I found LOST GIRLS and um I mentioned it to the owner of La Chate, and he's like, Oh yeah, he's like, I actually read that one when uh when we picked small engine repair.

[10:18] Devon McSherry: It's actually in our consideration pile, it's just you know, there's a lot of plays, we're gonna um but they did end up picking it, and um I just remember reading LOST GIRLS and

[10:18] John Pollono: Well, I didn't know they did LOST GIRLS, that's great.

[10:30] Devon McSherry: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I think it was the season, it was either a season right after small engine repair, it was a two seasons later.

[10:35] Devon McSherry: But it's like twenty eighteen or 2019. Yeah, uh, but so we ended up doing that, and I remember reading that script when I first found it, and uh the I don't want to spoil anything, but the twist in there, the moment that you get and you discover that it's the two different timelines, that was just like that was such a wow moment for me.

[10:51] Devon McSherry: It made me want to go back and reread things because I was just like, What do you remember them saying that? What did that make so much okay?

[10:56] Devon McSherry: Oh man, that's it's this it pieced together so well, and it was just like this master class on how to make uh a proper twist in a story without you know making it too predictable because I did not predict that.

[11:07] Devon McSherry: I thought something was coming, but not that. And uh and it gave it such a re uh a rereading value as well as a rewatching value because um she actually stayed, yeah, she stage managed that play.

[11:19] John Pollono: Oh wow, yeah, oh that's so cool.

[11:20] Devon McSherry: Yeah, yeah.

[11:21] Devon McSherry: And uh I loved it. It was just it was so good to see multiple times, uh, especially after reading it. And I knew it was coming, and just to listen to the audience and like, what are they gonna let me hear the little awesome little gasps?

[11:32] Devon McSherry: Um and then moving forward, like the next year, I think I think it was during LOST GIRLS that I had uh that I initially reached out to you and I was like, Hey, we I love your work, we're doing your plays.

[11:41] Devon McSherry: Um and you know, it wasn't it wasn't much, it was just like, Oh, thanks. You know, one of those things.

[11:45] John Pollono: Um and then I think it was the next year, uh I was looking for another Pollono play, and I came across uh Rules of Seconds, which uh I was looking for published plays, and I think all I found was small engine repair and lost girls, and I was like, well, let me let me see what else is out there, and I found these these articles about this play you wrote called Rules of Seconds.

[12:02] Devon McSherry: And I saw production photos like, Well, what is this? What is this play?

[12:06] Devon McSherry: And I remember I reached out to you and I was like, uh, so can we is it okay if I read it? And you sent me this PDF file, and yeah, I you know, it's based in the eighteen hundreds in Boston when dueling was still a thing, and I had never read anything like that.

[12:19] Devon McSherry: It the flow of it was very it's actually very kind of cinematic because the scenes are kind of quick. Um, but that was it, and I gave that to Chris. He had never read it, uh, the owner of Lachette, and it's like, What do you what do you think about this one?

[12:29] Devon McSherry: We should do this one. And then, you know, he was totally gung-ho about that because he loves your work too.

[12:33] Devon McSherry: Um, and then and then we didn't have to go through a publisher, we just did everything through you, and you let us produce that play.

[12:39] John Pollono: We were so grateful.

[12:40] Devon McSherry: Uh I mean we were both actually acted in that play.

[12:43] John Pollono: Did you really?

[12:44] Devon McSherry: Oh, that's awesome.

[12:45] Devon McSherry: Yeah, she played Hannah, and I was James Lee's the brother.

[12:48] John Pollono: Yeah, no, I remember you guys doing it. I remember seeing the shots, and it looked so cool.

[12:51] John Pollono: And you know, that's such a big play. I I mean, I love that play, and and you know, it it was we did it in LA, you guys did it, had a great production in Pittsburgh, and it was supposed to go up in New York, and then COVID hit, and it kind of threw that off.

[13:04] Devon McSherry: But yeah, um we finished our production like two weeks before COVID hit.

[13:09] John Pollono: Oh, really?

[13:10] Devon McSherry: February 2020 was our closing night, and then the then next month was COVID, and I was just like, Man, I'm so glad we did that in time.

[13:17] John Pollono: But you know, well, you know, I spent the last about year and a half gearing up to turn that into a film.

[13:23] John Pollono: And we're sort of, you know, knock on wood, our plan is to do it this year. We're sort of putting the pieces together.

[13:30] John Pollono: We're shooting in Ireland, we did location scout, we found all this stuff, and then the the adaptation.

[13:35] John Pollono: Um I mean, I always loved that, and I always felt to your point, like once I opened it up cinematically, it's still very contained.

[13:43] John Pollono: It works really well as a movie, it's very, very like lush. It's gonna be a very uh departure from certainly small engine repair and these other sort of kitchen sink gritty things.

[13:53] John Pollono: It's gonna be I'm really excited about it. We're starting to, you know, just amass the cast and and getting all those pieces together, so it should be really cool.

[14:00] Devon McSherry: I'm definitely gonna follow that.

[14:01] John Pollono: You didn't so excited.

[14:02] Devon McSherry: You did uh um I remember seeing on your social media you did a reading of was it the film version last year?

[14:08] John Pollono: It was the screenplay.

[14:09] John Pollono: Screenplay version, yeah.

[14:10] Devon McSherry: So you did like a test reading just to see how audience would uh would take to it. So how did that go?

[14:14] John Pollono: Yeah, you know, it was uh I have these producers, this student entertainment who interestingly, when we did the play in um LA, it was this big equity house in downtown, Latino Theater Company was this huge uh Joe Bonnie came out and directed, it was beautiful.

[14:30] John Pollono: And afterwards I met with these guys and they were like, "Hey, would you ever turn this into a movie?" And I was like, you know, I don't know, maybe. And then I kind of put it away, and then when I wrote it during the strike to direct, um, they were the first people I shared it with, and they're on board now. And they've produced a, they kind of their little niches. Uh, I mean they do a lot of stuff, but they're really good at like adapting plays into movies. They did one out of Miami and Blind Spotting and Analytics, and they're like killer, killer partners. So that sort of took it to a whole other level. But having made a movie and kind of, you know, chomp at the bit to do it again, it's much different the second time, and this is a much more ambitious thing, but and like the themes of the play are I think more relevant than ever, and they're all like not sort of, you know, I I'm not, I've never really been interested in movies and plays that lead with the theme.

You know what I mean? I feel like that one is very sort of subtextual and really comes across, but uh interestingly enough, uh it still has uh such relevancy, I felt like it was a way to sort of say something in that context, which I just, that's why it kind of always stuck with me. And yeah, you know, anyway. I'm glad you guys did it.

[15:44] Jonathan Cook: Yeah, yeah. I would say what are we? We were one out of five productions or five cities that saw that. Is that how many productions they have?

[15:51] John Pollono: Pretty much? Uh, it's only been done at smaller theaters, and again, it was supposed to have a bigger production in New York with Joe Bonnie again, and it just kind of fell apart. And then things shifted and the economy of theater changed and you know what they do and and I feel like, you know, theater's not going anywhere. But that type of play sort of was m didn't really click with a lot of stuff at the time. And now I think, um, I mean who knows, but I was like, I would just want to make it as a movie and get a broader audience with that.

[16:25] Devon McSherry: I will say our town is grateful. Every performance of that sold out when we did it. And I think it had a lot to do with the fact that they had already experienced SMALL ENGINE REPAIR, then LOST GIRLS, and then we're like, "We're doing another Pollono play," and everyone kind of knew your style.

[16:38] John Pollono: Um, that's awesome, man. So everyone in town came out and supported that. It was such a hit. Uh, even when I run into fellow cast members years later, it's like we always bring up stories, who wrote, "Remember that time? Remember the boot bit?" It's like, it's just so much, well, it's so fun, and like to me, I think a lot of my sort of writing style came from writing plays for my theater company and for my friends and family and all that stuff where you're like, if you're gonna show up and put this costume on, I'm gonna make sure you have some meat, you know what I mean? Something to do. So Rules of Seconds, the play was very much formed out of that. It's a big ensemble, but everybody has their moments and I mean, that's how I like to tell, especially theater, you know. I, it's always weird to me when I see a play and then like some character gets on stage for the last three pages. You're kind of like, "You're asking a lot from that person."

[17:30] Devon McSherry: Yeah.

[17:30] John Pollono: Go there, you know, four to six nights a week and and not have that. But that play, I, you know, everyone who's done that always has such a great experience because it is so theatrical and so everybody gets meaty fun parts. I mean, Hannah's like one of my favorite characters ever.

[17:45] Devon McSherry: Yeah, yeah.

[17:45] John Pollono: Honestly, uh, I got so many compliments for that role just because she, you root for her. She is so strong and like the most level-headed of all of them. And so, uh, I really enjoyed playing that role. It was a lot of fun.

[18:02] Devon McSherry: How was it doing the accent? How was that?

[18:05] John Pollono: Yeah, I had fun with that too. That was actually the first time I'd done an Irish accent. But I was like on YouTube looking up, "Okay, how do you do this?"

[18:12] Devon McSherry: Oh, that's great.

[18:14] John Pollono: But um, yeah, my goal was to have the accent but still be understood, which can be tricky when you're, it's a tricky thing. But we're actually looking to shoot the movie in Ireland. Um, who it, in first of all, Ireland kind of is trapped in time. It really looks like Boston in the mid-1800s. Um, there's obviously great incentives to shoot something over there, but it has like, because I looked into doing it, you know, in Massachusetts in upstate New York and stuff like that, and we deforested so much and these new, I mean trees have grown back, but it's all, it's a different vibe. But you go to Ireland and it has that, and it's interesting because, you know, growing up near Boston, you go to Ireland and it's so similar.

Um, so much of the, so many of the Irish came over to the area where I grew up and, you know, Colin I, you know, created a life there and so much of their culture came over with it. It's really amazing. If you guys have never been, you should go, you'd love it.

[19:10] Devon McSherry: I've been to Ireland, yeah.

[19:11] John Pollono: Um, you have?

[19:13] Devon McSherry: Uh, we wanted to go. My husband and I wanted to go before we had a child, so we made it happen.

[19:19] John Pollono: We're like, "Let's go to Ireland." And then a year later, I had a baby, so it was fine.

[19:24] Devon McSherry: There you go, an Irish baby, an Irish kid.

[19:28] John Pollono: But yeah, Ireland was beautiful. We loved it. Uh, speaking of adapting plays into films, you did this with SMALL ENGINE REPAIR. You just mentioned doing it with Rules of Seconds. And we're just learning you also did that with Riffraff, your new movie.

[19:41] Devon McSherry: Um, yeah.

[19:42] John Pollono: No, I mean, like, I mean, it makes sense for me at least, because I, you know, I'm when I'm writing a play, it's something I'm, you know, I'm not doing it for the month, and I'm doing it because I'm very interested in it and, you know, engaged with it. So then when I'm sitting there specking something out, it's something that lights a fire in me, you know what I mean? And yeah, um for, yeah, so Riffraff was a play called Razorback. It was the first season of Rogue Machine, and I mean, truthfully, it's more of a movie than a play. I mean, it was kind of a movie on stage, which I wanted to do. I thought it was cool to do like, uh, you know, dark comedy, uh kind of, you know, all those movies we loved in the 90s where they were like talkie, funny, uh with explosions of violence and all that stuff.

I was like, well, let me try to do this on stage and just to have the actors just chewing the scenery and doing it. But at the same time, harness the power of theater to make like a dysfunctional family, like Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf type thing, but then throw in this crime element. And I mean that was pretty early for me. Like it was only I think the second full-length play I'd ever written. And it, you know, I didn't really know that, uh, you know, I've seen many, many plays since then, obviously consumed my life, but at the time I was a little naive in being like, "Oh, this would be really cool. It's like a movie on stage," and audiences really loved it. Some of the critics did not.

That sort of like in the arc of me, like stopping to read critics and stuff like that. I mean, I feel like I very much write for an audience, you know what I mean? And I write for an audience that, like me, is maybe not incredibly well-versed in theater and wants to have. I mean, even like you're talking about that twist in LOST GIRLS, that was all me being like, "Wow, when you get people in an audience of a theater, you can really show them how visceral and exciting a play can be." As opposed to some plays which I kind of tune out a little bit where they're just kind of like preaching to the choir, so to speak.

[21:52] John Pollono: And this is like 2008, I think. Um, theater to me was always like I would see shit, and I was like, "Oh my god, this is so fucking inappropriate and crazy." And talk about it and made you like uncomfortable in a beautiful way. And that's what attracted me to theater because I'm like, these things aren't being told elsewhere. Um, so then interestingly, I wrote that script, you know, I don't know, 2015 or something. And when I was, I was originally wrote it to direct it, I thought it was like a contained movie, you know. It was like, you know, if you're gonna do an independent movie, make it contained and pass that around, and people really liked it, but they were like, "No one's making movies like this.

This is like, you know, feels like it's a remnant from the 90s." And I was like, "All right." And then it just kind of floated around and had little start stops and starts. I actually, when I was directing it way back in the day, I had a meeting with Ray Liotta. Uh, he wanted to play the lead, and I met with him, and we just couldn't get the pieces together. I mean, I didn't really know what I was doing. Um, and then Ditto, uh, we shared a management company. Um, and he read the script, and he's like, "I want to do it." And I mean, really, the truth is with these small movies, not that Riffraff is that small, but you need to have somebody who is pushing that boulder up the hill every day.

[23:09] Devon McSherry: Yeah.

[23:09] John Pollono: Collaboration helps.

[23:11] Devon McSherry: Yeah.

[23:12] John Pollono: Well, and Ditto is like, was his superpower was like he locked into it and he just fought for it, uh, for I don't know, like four or five years, maybe four years to get it made. And um, yeah, but it was like now that it's coming out, it's sort of, it's new in its old-fashioned, so to speak. Do you know what I mean?

[23:34] Devon McSherry: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[23:34] John Pollono: It's a story you've always known, but it's gonna be new to the crowds.

[23:38] Devon McSherry: Well, and I think, you know, I mean, I've written, look, that was again one of the first screenplays I wrote, and it breaks a lot of rules that I was kind of too naive to not realize are the rules, you know. I like multi-protagonist plays, I like multi-protagonist movies, but that's a lot harder to do, and not often not done as often. It's difficult to stick that landing of it, you know. Typically, when you're doing a smaller movie, you're like sticking with one character's point of view, and like you'll get that like big name to do that one. Um, and then everything's sort of built around this. This was sort of different. Um, and it made it a little more of a challenge for casting. I mean, Ditto has got a great reputation, and you get this killer cast, but it's sometimes harder because there's no clear main character.

I mean, Ed Harris's character is sort of the one that everyone orbits around, but everybody, you know, Jennifer Coolidge's character of Ruth, which is why I wrote the play, was for that character initially. But you know, they kind of float in and out, and sometimes you get actors of a certain caliber and they're like, "Look, I'm not in every fucking scene, I'm not gonna do it," you know.

[24:42] Devon McSherry: Oh, yeah.

[24:42] John Pollono: I gotcha, yeah.

[24:43] John Pollono: Which is just the nature. If I'm gonna do a small movie, I want to be like in it. Um, so that took them a little while to kind of get it, and then you know, we got the cast you're meant to have, but you know, and it does it, you know. We, you'll see it. You'll, you'll if you love theater, you'll love it. Um, because it is contained and it's talky and they're complicated characters, and it's a very much, uh, as the play was, it's very much, uh, there's some very distinct archetypes and tropes within the story that I was like intentionally did and then wanted to subvert that and sort of tell it in a nonlinear way and mess around in that way. Again, just being naive, being like, "Why not? Let's just do this, it's fun."

And look, I was able to see that movie with some audiences, and it's made for an audience and they love it. Uh, you know, I don't know. We'll see how it does, but it's fucking funny and it's unexpected in a way that I feel has been missing for a while, where you just have characters and you're like, you don't know what they're gonna say or do. Like I always love that element of surprise in telling a story, and you know, I just get bored when it's people just doing what you expect, you know what I mean?

[25:55] Devon McSherry: Yeah.

[25:55] John Pollono: And yeah, and you can look, you can be obnoxious, and there is a part of me sometimes to curb where I'm like get a little bit too subversive or a little too, you know, uh, provocative.

[26:06] Devon McSherry: Yeah, you know what I mean?

[26:08] John Pollono: Um, which is very easy to do, uh, especially I think over the last, you know, four to six years, theater became a place where people were really looking to be outraged and looking to um be offended, which I'm like, that's why I go to theater, you know what I mean?

[26:24] Devon McSherry: Uh, so that's interesting.

[26:26] John Pollono: Yeah, I don't know, man. It's weird. I mean, I blame social media for this sort of homogenization of things. And again, I never want to create anything that um further marginalizes somebody or hurts any specific community. But at the same time, I'm like, look, it's coming from love. It's coming from a joy of storytelling, it's coming from a joy of either cinema or theater or all that stuff. That's all I can really control, you know. But I think when you dilute something, look, Riffraff is very unfiltered. And I think if you're along for the ride, you're gonna have a lot of fun. And some of the stuff I was in the script, I'm really shocked it made it. You know what I mean? I thought a lot more was gonna be sanded down, but you know, Ditto did, you know, quite the opposite.

[27:12] Devon McSherry: So for the process of creating Riffraff and going through the filming and everything, uh, were you there like on set, ready to make those changes, or they would just like tell you if they needed to make changes?

[27:26] John Pollono: I mean, it was sort of a combination of both. I mean, Ditto and I had worked and collaborated and did various drafts over the years just before it got made. And then um, there was the writer's strike, so I couldn't touch her for a while, and then the strike went away. Um, I did a lot. I was on like two really big deadlines, so I couldn't be. I was on the set quite a bit, but Ditto was always there, like calling me at the end of the night, and I was rewriting pages and sending them, and like when we got Bill Murray, who was like a last-minute addition, he and I did like, you know, seven hours of calls ahead of time just going through his character and the script. I mean, the guy's a fucking genius, and really, really working with him in a way that I mean, look, when you're on set, as it depends.

It depends how it is, but you know, Ditto was very, very, uh, he loved the script. He didn't want to blow it up. And a lot, and the script is also written in a very riffy way that feels improvised and it isn't. And you know, Jennifer Coolidge sort of you give a scene or lines and it goes through her sort of mechanism and then comes out. She still hit it. It just, you know, there's an invention to that. But um, yeah, no, I, it was a really, it was a great collaborative process with Ditto and with the actors, and you know, changed some shit. But for the most part, we just, we worked on the development of it for so long that by the time the shooting happened, it was, uh, it was kind of there. I mean, there were a couple moments where, you know, I'm sitting here on this thing, and Ditto will call me and he'll be like, "Hey, listen, I feel like we have some time."

[28:57] John Pollono: What do you want to do? Like, there's one really kind of unusual moment in the film where, you know, Jennifer Coolidge is the ex-wife, and she comes to this house and Ed Harris is married, Gabrielle Union, like upgraded, and he's got the stepson and this, like, who's very intellectual, and it's sort of the life he wants. And Jen Coolidge, who's sort of the first wife who was discarded, basically. I mean, look, my sister was going through a very nasty divorce at the time I wrote the play, and I was like, all of this complicated emotional shit I kind of put in there, and in a sort of unflinching way to say, like, this is a story of what happens to women when another family happens, what happens to the original son?

So that's there, you know. That's to me the theme, and that's why I wrote it. All of that pain and blood is subtextual within this framework of a dark crime story. But you know, like there was this one scene where Jennifer Coolidge's character talking to Ditto, and he's like, I just, you know, we need to have a moment with just Ruth doing something simple. We have, you know, tomorrow we have like two hours to shoot it and then spitballing, and I pitched him this scene over the phone, and he's like, Holy fuck, I love that. And then I wrote it and same thing happened with Stronger, actually. Like to me, that's one of the best moments in the movie now where she had time, and I was like, you know, like my wife is like very much in she's a beautiful woman, and she has all these like skin regimens.

And I was like, what if, you know, she goes in the bathroom and sees Gabrielle Union's beautiful, like high-end skin products and makeup and all this stuff, and she's looking at it, and it's like this cinematic moment where she's like, Wow, this is what it would have been like, or this is like how the other half lives, and she's looking at it and trying the different makeup, and then she just starts stealing it and like putting it in her pocket in a small moment, and you know, these are the things you discover, and it's in the movie and it's very beautiful and weird, and I'm like, I love it. And that's something that I don't necessarily would have been in the script unless you had that open dialogue between the director and the writer to kind of try these things.

And I mean, look, I look at myself as a filmmaker and not just a writer. Not that this, you know, writing is, I mean, the most the hardest part and the most important part, but you also, when you know how a film is made, you're not precious about things and you're there to help, and you're here to, you know, pick up the ball on the third yard line and get it over. So that was really cool. So that was a great experience. And you know, some of those actors I knew and had a relationship and could talk and do all that stuff. And you know what theater gives you the ability to learn how to write for actors, and especially, you know, a first production, you're right, you lean into that actor and you cater it to some extent.

And film works in many, many ways. So once you had that cast started getting formed, it was like going in there and changing some things. And Gabrielle Union, who had some really, especially as like a black woman, had some ideas. She's like, look, this doesn't work, this doesn't work, this doesn't work. So chatting with her and being like, wow, that's amazing logic that, you know, once you get an actor who's really into the character and bringing their life experience, you just, you listen to that.

[32:14] Jonathan Cook: So Riff Raff actually premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival. What was the response of the audience there? And did you get to attend that one?

[32:23] John Pollono: Yeah, I did. I was there, it was awesome. It was like, Jesus, I think it was like 1200 people in the theater. It was great. Yeah, it was an awesome experience, definitely a highlight of my sort of creative life, seeing it sort of connect in that way. It was great. Again, this is a movie just like the play, but the movie is really made for an audience, and you can tell when you see something like that, like you're along for the ride, and if you're not, that's fine. Like, I have no problem. Like, if you create something and it's like not your cup of tea, that's totally fine. What pisses me off sometimes is when people are like, I didn't like that, let me ruin the experience for people who did.

Yeah, which is again the beauty of social media sometimes doing, which everyone's obviously entitled to their own opinion, but like, you know, man, it's like if my daughter's listening to a song and she absolutely loves it, who am I to be like, no, Taylor Swift sucks? It's like, no, hear it through their thing, or like let people enjoy shit that they like. So, this is very much. If this is in your wheelhouse, you're gonna fucking love it. I think. I mean, I don't know, I'm not trying to be defensive. I just I don't know. But I think it's just fun, ballsy, unfiltered, and it needs to be seen with an eye. I mean, it looks good. The trailer, I mean, there's a lot of funny one-liners in there, and it looks like a really kick-ass story.

[33:43] Jonathan Cook: Adapting the stage plays, what's the biggest challenge in adapting a stage play to film? Like for SMALL ENGINE REPAIR, that's a three-person play. For the film, you included the wives, you included the daughter. What was it like? And what was the main challenge of bringing that to the screen? Or any play to screen, really?

[34:02] John Pollono: I mean, look, I think, you know, it's a very simple concept, but it's like opening it up. And to me, having done it enough, it was always like, look at what works in the play, like SMALL ENGINE REPAIR, for example, like what works, and what works on stage that isn't gonna work on screen, and vice versa. And to me, that was really like how do I take how do I make it more emotional, more intense, more real, more grounded, which was the approach as opposed to going more sort of broad and comedic. I mean, I think the play is probably funnier than the movie because the movie, a lot of the humor's thrown away and the stakes feel real. Cinematic stakes of life and death and SMALL ENGINE REPAIR, the tension is very, very real.

So I leaned into that more. And it was more like all these important characters who are talked about in the play, how much more emotional will it be to see it? And how much more will it really inform the sort of central concept that I had behind it, which was this sort of gray area situation that happens and how it colors your idea of justice and misogyny or whatever it is, and people that that's a very divisive play wasn't as divisive because I think theater audiences are looking, especially at that time, for a very complicated experience. But with the film, it is like it's a litmus test, and I was like, Well, knowing where that's going, how do I color it? And it was really very much of showing the women, because to me the play was always about women, even though there's no women in the play, and but having those women in it and having especially Crystal be someone that you really care about as an audience and really see her as flesh and blood, so that when you get to the final bits of the movie, you're like hopefully emotionally invested in her, and it makes that sort of litmus test that much more complicated.

So that was sort of the, you know, the left brain portion of it, but then it just became how do I just make it as grounded and real as possible? How do I make the relationships feel real? And then, you know, knowing that you have to shoot it and how it's gonna do, and that was challenging making, you know, 65% of a movie in one location, and you know, it is very simple things like stuff that you know a play is a master scene, but like you could have done that movie, you could have just shot the play and locked down a camera and done it like Rope and done it, and then that, but that wasn't really what I wanted to do, and then, you know, moving it around, finding that shop, like letting the locations be like when you cast an actor and you let the actor inform what the characters will be, letting the locations do it and just having that real grounded quality of it was sort of what it was.

But you know, in terms of RIFF RAFF, it was kind of unleashing the characters in a way that they were contained on the stage in a way that maybe made the play not as effective as it could have been as a movie. And again, just making mistakes bigger. And like in the play, the bad guys played by Bill Murray and Pete, they don't those characters don't show up till the second act. So the first act of the movie is much more of a conventional, like dysfunctional family thing with a little bit of elements of danger as you're really just laying the chess pieces out and the conflicts between all the family. You go dark on intermission and you come up, and the whole last 20 minutes is like they're being held hostage by the bad guys that you've heard about but you haven't seen.

So in a movie, it's just keeping those guys alive. Do you know what I mean? And showing them and sort of laying the groundwork for that. And that's just sort of a problem to be solved and to figure it out. And then, you know, both those, I mean, SMALL ENGINE REPAIR and RIFF RAFF both had a lot of characters telling stories on stage. I mean, I love that. I come from a history of people who like to tell stories and engage you in it. And that's a great tool of theater, is like you can tell the fucking story. I love it when characters tell stories in plays, especially, you know what I mean? Instead of just monologuing about their feelings, like, oh my god, I gotta tell you what happened. Because if you can really make the storytelling reflect a lot about the plot, the character, the theme, and what's going on with them.

But in and then, you know, if you have that and stuff that you think really works and was really thought over, then you just, you know, visualize that. It's a very sort of easy, you know, obviously obvious thing to do. And then, yeah, as it opened up, you find other scenes that need to do it, and you know, it's still very contained, and it's very much about the family dynamic, but by seeing some of these moments and you know, in particular, you know, as a gas station scene where the bag it's in the fucking trailer. And I wish to spoil anything, but you know, they go there and they're riffing and they're doing it, but then you see Bill Murray's character come on and blow the guy away. And you know, in a movie it's shocking and gory and there's brains on the thing because you're supposed to be like set the tone of look this is funny, but like these are real bullets.

[39:05] Jonathan Cook: Yeah.

[39:06] John Pollono: And that's something you can do cinematically. And so you open it up and you do more of that stuff. And then like a lot of the all the characters in the stage playing and then the movie they all have that moment where they tell a story about themselves that is reflective of the theme in the plot. And we just kicked it over to these like similar to SMALL ENGINE REPAIR where you all the main guys have their story and then you see it in the movie and that's just something you can do in movies. Why would you flashbacks? Yeah, I mean flashbacks can be like, you know, it really not done well. I mean I think look first of all if you're engaging and entertaining an audience they're gonna like it. And that's the RIFF RAFF stories are very interesting because they're all it's not Rashomon-esque but it's like they're all telling the point of views of things and really colors who they are.

Especially there's one where the Marina character played by Emanuela this amazing Italian actress they're like how did you meet and she tells this kind of beautiful story and then goes to Rocco played by Lewis Pullman and he's like well how did how did you guys meet and he tells his story and it starts out ridiculous and violent and crazy and then it ends in beauty. And they're told in different orders, but to me, I was just like, Well, this is telling you all you need to know about them and how they came together, as opposed to, you know, doing it in a very linear way.

[40:27] Jonathan Cook: What modern day filmmakers inspire you, and also what growing up, what filmmakers did you grow up with that inspired you to get into this field?

[40:37] John Pollono: Yeah, I mean, listen, my filmmakers still that I feel obviously Tarantino is a no-brainer. I love, of course. Because I think his movies are so, and look that first of all, his movies came out at a time when I was like, you know, in high school and this is cool and this is why I want to get into movies. And for what Tarantino did to me was seeing his movies in a theater, I was like, it's kind of like theater, right? You're having this communal experience and you're in living it with everybody. And I had, it was at the right time and it was the right material and it was right everything. We're all in it. And when it's scary on screen, it made us all connected when we laugh and cathartic, like that really shaped me a lot.

Like Pulp Fiction, some of those moments where I was like, Oh my god, this must be what it was like to see Psycho when it came out and did that. And you know, I still obviously love him. And then Scorsese, you know, being Italian and Catholic and seeing how he weaves in all of this real depth and real theme. He's always been obviously someone I'm really, really admire. And quite frankly, Spielberg. I mean, his movies shape me so much and how he zigs and zags and is like this master storyteller who tells, you know, character and feels all that. But I mean lately, like there's just some killer filmmakers out there. I gotta say seeing Greta Gerwig's Little Women really inspired me to turn Small Rules of Seconds into a movie where I was like, I mean, she's remarkable, but I just loved how she created a period piece that's very lived in and feels very relevant and feels like of the moment and beautifully done.

And I was like, Oh my god, she's just an absolute beast. And, you know, Robert Eggers, who's from New Hampshire, actually, like I am, I love his movies. Just the passion he has and the unique quality he brings to all them. And Martin McDonagh is like a huge hero. He's a theater playwright or turned into movies, and really like you sometimes you gravitate towards artists that speak your language, you know. And I think Martin McDonagh has so consistently done that to me with like In Bruges and Dan Sheehan's of Inisherin, where it's like it's heartbreaking and it's deep, but it's also really fucking funny and sometimes really scary. And I love that sort of bullseye, you know, it's very hard to do, but theater we do it all the time, so I love doing that in film, yeah, you know.

Um, I know there's a recent example of something I felt really did that where you are tense, but it's also very funny, and then also has a really shines the light on something very complicated in a human.

[43:16] Jonathan Cook: Yeah, it's funny you bring up McDonagh because that's another one of the owners of the local theater we were with that he's done all McDonagh's plays too.

[43:22] John Pollono: Yep.

[43:23] Jonathan Cook: Oh yeah, yeah.

[43:24] John Pollono: Well, he, you know, man, it's like I think the collective IQ of an audience goes up, obviously, in theater and in the movies too. And I think his stuff is challenging, and you're not, it's not, I'm not interested in stories that are like sort of patting you on the back and then like giving you more mac and cheese. It's like it should be some other thing. And look, I'm like you, like I like to create shit and I like to walk the, my favorite art is stuff that you want to see again and decipher all that stuff. And like, for example, when I first saw Reservoir Dogs, the first time I saw that, and I was pretty young, but it terrified me. It like I had nightmares about it. And then I saw it again with like friends, and I was like, oh my God, this is fucking hilarious.

And because once you know what's coming, you enjoy it in a different way. And I just like stuff that you can watch in multiple ways. I mean, you know, small engine repair is really, really funny, but like I hope if you see the movie, just like the play, and then you re-watch it, you're getting a different experience. So it's putting something out there that really respects an audience and asks you to listen and not, you know, if you're offended by something to not just shut off and then be like, okay, it's there for a reason. I mean, to me, you can get irresponsible sometimes in art if you create something that is intentionally offensive without a sort of deeper statement you're saying on it, or like what are you really saying here?

Or like, I'm not pulling punches, but I'm doing this for a reason. Yeah, you know what I mean? And then in humor, look, I think the masters you're talking about, like a Martin McDonough, he creates tension and heartbreak, and then you'll have a laugh and it just blows it all out. Yeah, but then what does it do? That opens you up to take even more heartache and more tension. And you know, if you love a character, you don't want him to get a paper cut. Never mind.

[45:09] Jonathan Cook: Yeah.

[45:10] John Pollono: Which is why, like, you know, I think a lot of play adaptations to movies sometimes don't work because the stakes are not cinematic, and a play that could be remarkable and riveting on stage because you're breathing the air of the performers and you're in it, has trouble translating to cinema because it's not an inherent life or death struggle or the stakes are not there. And I think that the things I've adapted at least have cinematic stakes. So they do have an easy, like especially rules of seconds to me, it was always like, Jesus, this is perfect cinema. You're, there's a structure that's pushing marching you towards a very horrific conclusion that it permeates everything, the humor, everything.

It's just a ratcheting of tension until you have this like really far out cataclysmic thing, which RIFF RAFF is similar in SMALL ENGINE REPAIR too. So I think that, and Martin McDonough and these guys, they all kind of have that quality to it which I like. That's not to say I, you know, I've written plays and done other stuff that are much more lower stakes but more for the stage, you know what I'm saying?

[45:39] Jonathan Cook: Yeah, yeah. What other modern day playwrights are inspiring you nowadays? I know you say Martin McDonough, but who else out there do you catch in theater?

[45:39] John Pollono: I mean, look, I see everything our theater company does and some of the stuff, like this guy Will Arbury wrote a play, you they get a play running right now. He wrote a play called Heroes of the Fourth Turning a couple years ago, which I just thought was fantastic and to me felt like a real return to form of theater that I was always drawn to, which is very challenging and doesn't just reflect your own belief system back at you so you feel like, oh, I'm so smart. It was like, wow, this is, we should talk about this and I really loved and appreciated that play.

[47:02] John Pollono: You know, my daughter is a musical theater prodigy, so I have watched a lot more musical theater over the past, that's what she's studying in school and she actually teaches musical theater.

[47:12] Jonathan Cook: Oh, do you really?

[47:13] John Pollono: Yeah, for kids, yep.

[47:12] Jonathan Cook: Oh yeah, oh that's great.

[47:17] John Pollono: I mean, there's nothing better. My 10-year-old does it too, and it's just such a beautiful thing.

[47:20] Jonathan Cook: It's fun.

[47:20] John Pollono: Yeah. Yeah, I really have gotten a deeper appreciation for musical theater, which, and now we're having sort of a boon of musical movies and stuff like that. Because, but I think they share a similar thing where it's like a good musical will, the song will express itself musically in a way that the text can't. You know what I mean? And in some ways, I think in the plays that I wrote, the humor or the tension would do the similar thing where it's like you're suddenly in a visceral moment. You're sort of transported a little bit. It's a similar kind of dynamic.

[47:53] Jonathan Cook: So next up for you is SMALL ENGINE REPAIR, the musical. Is that what we're saying?

[47:56] John Pollono: No, I mean, I don't know if I could ever write a musical, but I mean maybe someday. I mean, look, again, theater's not going anywhere. I love theater to me. I'm like in this track, but I could, you know, my daughter's always like, hey, you should write a musical, I'll put me in it and we'd do this. And I mean, this is like nothing I'd like to do more than that. So, but I appreciate musicals. I don't necessarily, I mean, I can't write a fucking music, but yeah, maybe I'll find somebody who could do it when you collaborate.

[48:20] John Pollono: I actually did a show with both of my parents when I just got out of high school and we all did a musical together, and it is definitely a very cherished experience of mine. So I'm sure she's sincere, she would love to do something with you.

[48:34] John Pollono: Yeah, she's done, I mean, look, Sophie's done tons of stuff. I mean, she had a little role in SMALL ENGINE REPAIR, she's a killer actress, as is my wife. They were both in the movie. And they were both in the reading I did, and you know, my daughter is like, I mean, she doesn't really even need help, she's like kicking ass. But I look, man, I think to me the best thing about creating art is when you can work with people you love and you trust. And you know, I think that that's great. I think that there's, when you look at the long span of artists, whether they're playwrights or directors or artistic directors or whatever, it's like they work with the same people again for a reason. It's like when you find someone that clicks with you and you trust.

And I mean, look, for me as a director, it's like I really want to trust. Like, I'm not like, I don't want to go in there and like beat people into submission. I really love and respect acting and what they can bring to that. And you know, you steer them along, but like, hey, it's yours now. How do I help you do that? That's how I like to work. That's what theater taught me. And yeah, there's nothing better than working with people that you just, you're excited to see them sink their teeth into something. I mean, that's very inspiring when you're writing something, you know, or anything. You're like, you can't wait to get their take on it. I mean, an actor will, no matter how you have sort of an omniscient view of the story or the play or the movie, and then a great actor, someone like people I love working with, like a John Bernthal and Shay Wiggum, who are just geniuses, like they go down the mine shaft of that character deeper than you ever would.

They start noticing things that it's not that you failed, it's just that you didn't notice that. And they're like, hey, you know what? Within, I mean, if they're great and they bring that truth to it. I mean, like Shay, there were a lot of times in shooting the movie, he's like, I'll do whatever you want, but you know, he's so in that character, he's like, here's what I'm noticing. For me to go from here to here to here, he's like, I'm bumping against it. So we either like break it apart and figure out a way to do it, or you're like, you know, you're right. This is not essential. And that is the fucking beauty of collaboration, man.

[50:33] Jonathan Cook: Yeah.

[50:34] John Pollono: I will say for me personally, just when I first discovered your work a decade ago to now, you've been an inspiration for me as a writer, as even a filmmaker. Just seeing your journey, you know, through all your plays, through all the creative stuff you've done. So it's, thank you. And I love that you're so accessible. You know, you never, anytime, anytime, and I know you're like really into the horror space too, right?

[50:57] John Pollono: Yeah, I mean, I do what I can. I mean, I've made a few short horror films and I love that. I love horror and I think that that's such a cool, like community. I mean, the people, the guys I know who are one of the nicest guys I know is this guy Jacob Chase and he's as sweet as can be. He's like a dad, he's a young dude and he makes all these crazy horror movies and it's just such a cool thing. I mean, there's some horrific shit. Like he made a short film that I was like, this is fucking horrifying. He's such a good dude, I just love that community. You know what I mean? I think it's really, I think it's really cool. But I think that is a similar thing to what we're talking about. You want to give an audience an experience, right?

And that could be horror and that experience is that like that feeling in your gut like I'm fucking afraid or I'm laughing or I'm crying or I'm emotional. It's just like bring an audience something to me. And that's always what I've required. And again, if it's a play that makes me think or makes me do something, but when stuff is just done to show how smart you are or whatever in that, like that loses me and that's just not what I'm necessarily interested in. So I have big respect for people who are like I want to scare the shit out of you. You know, I want to give you something as opposed to just I want you to be depressed or whatever.

[52:13] Jonathan Cook: I mean, yeah, yeah. I think the best stories are in the gray, like not the, you don't have black and white, everything is gray because that's what life is. So yeah, I think that's how we provoke the thought is that muddy up the right and wrong, like you do in SMALL ENGINE REPAIR.

[52:32] John Pollono: Yeah, well, life is complex and characters, you're only seeing them for a window, and they need to make some difficult decisions. And I mean, every time your character opens his or her mouth, they're making a choice. And you should make that choice impactful. I think. And again, if they're gonna, like Hannah's a perfect example. I mean, she's got a heart of gold, but she's tough and self-destructive and all these other things, and it's sort of anchored to her religion and her ethnicity and all these other things, and she's just struggling. So she's butting against that all the time, for better or for worse. So I'm like, that's a fun character, as opposed to a character who just says and does the right things all the time.

[53:12] Jonathan Cook: Yeah.

[53:12] John Pollono: I mean, especially what's funny is Hannah and the Martha characters in the movie really became so much of the story in the play is them, and then they're kind of holding the water until sort of the end. And in the movie, it was that was a really great prism to look at the adaptation is following those characters as all the guys or men are shackled to this, you know, idea of dueling and this idea of being a man where they're under it and it was really, it's really fun. I w when you create a character that you really love as a writer, they kind of, there's a lot of them telling you how to write the story, which is awesome.

[53:51] Jonathan Cook: Yeah. So how as far along as you are in Rules of Seconds with getting, you know, you said you're working on casting locations, like when can we expect that when it happens?

[54:00] John Pollono: I mean, you'll be the first to know. You know, come back on, come back on when you're for sure, man. You know, any kind of space is, it's just, it's about getting those few pieces that can justify the budget. There's a much bigger budget than SMALL ENGINE REPAIR, it's much more ambitious, and we have some great talent attached and in an awesome way. And it's just getting the final pieces, and then you start the scheduling and see, hey, you want to do it? Great. When are you available? And you know, we have a big ensemble like that. You gotta kind of make it work. But these things kind of like when you're making a movie, and it's similar to making a theater, a play, is like you have to like listen to the work, and they will like get out of the way to some extent.

Like it's gonna happen when it's gonna happen, right? You have to fight for it, but ultimately it's like the cast of RIFF RAFF, for example. Ditto had people come and go for years, and then the cast you're meant to have is there. The people who show up, it's like they're meant to be there. And you just gotta kind of steer it along. So that's sort of where we're at. It's like putting the team together that's meant to be there. But we're getting real close. So yeah, I hope to have more soon.

[55:06] Jonathan Cook: Yeah, so RIFF RAFF opens February 28th, nationwide. Distributed by Lionsgate Films.

[55:11] John Pollono: Uh, everyone listening, go out and it's Roadside Attractions.

[55:15] Jonathan Cook: Yeah, man. All I would say is like this is the same corny plea that every filmmaker makes, is like go see it in the theater because it's like we need to keep cinema alive, and you know, heck yeah. I have nothing against streaming. This is a movie that I think will work really well if you're kicking it in your living room and watching it with some friends. But like it, you see it in the theater. Like, let's pay, let's support this art and make sure it continues. You know, I think this is a movie that could really connect with an audience, but I mean, there's not gonna be anything like seeing it in the theater.

[55:43] John Pollono: Yeah, yeah, and let me know what you think after you see it.

[55:46] Jonathan Cook: Oh, it totally will. I'll reach out to you the same day. I'm gonna, I'm gonna see it on opening. We're gonna, we're gonna go awesome.

[55:51] John Pollono: Um, but yeah, thank you so much for joining us.

[55:54] Jonathan Cook: Uh no problem. Keep me, keep me posted. I'm, I'm always glad to jump on the Zoom with you guys.

[56:00] Jonathan Cook: Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, I guess stay in touch. I hope we can collaborate again in the future.

[56:05] John Pollono: Definitely want to have you back on with you, Rules of Seconds. RIFF RAFF, February 28th. Everyone go see that. Thank you so much, John.

[56:11] John Pollono: All right, guys, have a great day.

[56:13] Jonathan Cook: All right, now it's time for the credits. Uh go ahead and roll the dice.

[56:15] Devon McSherry: Okay, there we go.

[56:16] Jonathan Cook: Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a second. I got an idea. How about we do our Rules of Seconds characters?

[56:20] Devon McSherry: Yeah?

[56:21] Jonathan Cook: Yeah. And honor John Pollono.

[56:22] Devon McSherry: All right, here we go.

[56:23] Jonathan Cook: Here we go.

[56:24] Devon McSherry: Yeah, yeah.

[56:25] Jonathan Cook: This has been a Gather by the Ghost Light Production, produced by Jonathan Cook.

[56:29] Devon McSherry: And Devin McSherry.

[56:31] Jonathan Cook: And we'd love to thank John Pollono for joining us today to talk about his new film.

[56:35] Devon McSherry: That's right.

[56:36] Jonathan Cook: Hell yeah. His new movie RIFF RAFF.

[56:38] Devon McSherry: It comes out on February 28th. Go check it out.

[56:41] Jonathan Cook: Yes. And we'd like to thank JK47 for the title music, as always.

[56:47] Devon McSherry: And additional music by Josh Tarp.

[56:49] Jonathan Cook: This program is funded in part by the South Carolina Arts Commission, which received funding from the National Endowment for the Arts.

[56:55] Devon McSherry: And as always, everyone stay safe out there, and we'll see you the next time we gather round the ghost light.

[57:02] Jonathan Cook: By the ghost lights.

[57:05] Devon McSherry: She, she doesn't care.

[57:06] Jonathan Cook: No, okay. I'll do it again.

[57:07] Devon McSherry: I may just keep that.

[57:11] Jonathan Cook: It felt like the Irish thing to do.

[57:13] Devon McSherry: There's a ghost in the radio that keeps it on the beat.

[57:18] Jonathan Cook: There's a demon in the bottle trying to drag me to my feet.

[57:22] Devon McSherry: And I can't afford to fall apart every time we meet.

[57:27] Jonathan Cook: Oh, there's a ghost after me.

[57:45] Devon McSherry: I mean, it literally like just stop. It literally just played the whole thing like a minute ago.