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[0:00] Tim Rice: Hello, this is Tim Rice, and this is episode 66 of my podcast, Get Onto My Cloud.

[0:17] Tim Rice: When I was in my twenties, exactly 50 Edinburgh festivals ago, Frank Dunlop's directed the first professional production of Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, which Andrew Lloyd Webber and I had written for one primary school concert in 1968. In the first four years of the work's existence, it began to burrow its way into educational musical syllabi at a modest pace. This we appreciated, but in 1970, we stumbled into overnight success with our double album of Jesus Christ Superstar, and we did not thereafter give our earlier piece the attention it perhaps deserved. Superstar's hefty impact on both record and stage did cause a certain amount of interest within musical circles, at least to the extent that theatricals wondered where these two slightly poshed chaps had come from, and had they written anything else.

Joseph was the only something else available. Although in most quarters we were not unreasonably considered one-hit wonders, I tended to agree with this assessment, Frank Dunlop's spotted something he liked in our first biblical effort and got in touch to see if he could make it work for an adult cast and audience. He was perfectly happy with the 30-minute piece as it was, except that he wanted to shift a few pronouns around so that, e.g., the brothers sang their lines in the first person, rather than have great chunks of the piece sung as an oratorio in the third. Fine, we said, and sort of forgot about it, and got on with the Superstar circus.

[1:57] Tim Rice: Two or three months later, we were amazed to read rave reviews of Frank's production of Joseph at the 1972 Edinburgh Festival. It was playing in a converted ice rink, together with a first act of medieval plays based on the book of Genesis, and was selling out. We'd missed the first night, but managed to make the third or fourth. It was clear that Frank had found a whole new audience for Joseph, and in turning the brothers en masse into a brand new character to sing alongside Joseph, Pharaoh, and the no-all narrator, had doubled the humour and added pathos and other plausible characteristics via the eleven-sided fraternity. Plus, he had anticipated the significance of pronouns by about forty years.

Frank's Joseph was, of course, a little over half an hour long. But once we saw that the show had potential beyond schools, we were keen to add new material, particularly if possible for the brothers. So we gave them a song in which they attempted to explain to their father Jacob that he was now one son short. Joseph having been tragically killed while wrestling with an unspecified wild animal to save his brothers' lives. In short, the song, One More Angel in Heaven, was a pack of lies.

[3:14] ♪ Musical number: "One More Angel in Heaven" — performed by Maynard Williams ♪

[7:25] Tim Rice: The lead singer on that recording of One More Angel in Heaven is a wonderful performer named Maynard Williams, son of the celebrated actor and comedian Bill Maynard. The song, sung by Maynard Williams, made its debut when Frank Dunlop's's Edinburgh Show became the first West End production of Joseph in early 1973. The song is, of course, a parody, or perhaps a tribute to country music, and I feel this recording captures the essence of that type of music. Plus, it has humor and downright dishonesty, linked to an irresistibly catchy tune, without going over the top, as one or two stage presentations of One More Angel have done. Too many yeeha's and too much barn dancing on occasion. So impressed were we with Maynard's vocal talents that Andrew and I recorded an album with him in 1974, entitled Ten Songs, for which we wrote several new numbers, which I intend to feature in a future Get Onto My Cloud very soon. Some interesting stuff there, including early versions of several songs which went on to become parts of musicals such as Evita and Sunset Boulevard.

[8:34] Tim Rice: Anyway, last week, that is August 11th, 2022, I was delighted to come back to the Edinburgh Festival precisely half a century later to reminisce about my life and times, but in particular about Joseph and Frank's interpretation thereof. With the distinguished broadcaster Ian Dale. Ian was hosting a daily series of interviews, primarily with politicians, which was a big daily draw. The day before me featured Jeremy Corbyn, the day after me, Keir Starmer. The politicians drew a far bigger audience than I did. But will Keir Starmer be asked back to reminisce in 2072? I rest my case. Talking to Ian, I was delighted to recall in the city and festival where it happened, how much Andrew and I owe to Frank.

Without in any way destroying the innocence, humour, and tunefulness of the work, he'd showed how he could stand up to a sophisticated and witty interpretation which could appeal to all ages. Since then, every professional show from the London Palladium and Broadway downwards retains influences of his original production, which has been crucial in sustaining its appeal over more than half a century.

[9:51] Tim Rice: Frank's original cast was a vital factor, Gary Bond as Joseph, Gordon Waller as Pharaoh, and Ian Charlson was one of the brothers. None with us now, sad to say, none able to reflect on their 70s. Frank, however, is fit and well into his 90s and was back in Edinburgh in 2022 to help oversee the change of festival directors. He was the festival director from 1984 to 1991, a post shortly to be taken as I talk by Nicola Benedetti, a splendid choice. At the Edinburgh Festival and later in the West End, Pharaoh was played by Gordon Waller. Gordon was one half of a British vocal duo, Peter and Gordon, who'd been extremely successful internationally with a string of hit records in the mid 60s, beginning with A World Without Love, written for them by Paul McCartney when Beatlemania was at its height.

When they went their separate ways, Gordon made some recordings with my then boss Norrie Paramour. So I got to know Gordon well, helping out on the sessions. Norrie cut some excellent tracks with Gordon, including one outstanding Jim Webb ballad, Rosecrans Boulevard.

[11:05] Tim Rice: But nothing took off.

[11:07] Tim Rice: Gordon was a superb pop singer, vocally on a par with Scott Walker.

[11:12] Tim Rice: In the later years of his life, he and Peter reunited occasionally, and although in some respects time had taken its toll, his voice remained in great shape until the end.

[11:23] Tim Rice: Here is Gordon as Pharaoh.

[11:31] Tim Rice: Guess what? In his bed, Pharaoh had an uneasy night.

[11:36] Tim Rice: He had had a dream that pinned him to his sheets with fright.

[11:39] Tim Rice: No one knew the meaning of the dream.

[11:43] Tim Rice: What to do, whatever could it mean?

[11:47] Tim Rice: Then this lively lad said I know a broken jail.

[11:55] Tim Rice: Pharaoh said, What you fetched is Joseph Pharaoh.

[11:59] Tim Rice: I need him to help me.

[12:09] Tim Rice: What you're gonna do?

[12:11] Tim Rice: Poor poor Pharaoh, what you gonna do?

[12:15] Tim Rice: Dreams are haunting you, hey, what you gonna do?

[12:20] Tim Rice: Chain down on the frame Joseph stood before the throne I service to Pharaoh has been gone tell me your problems might see one I was wandering along by the banks on the river when the silver fat cows came out of the knob Batshi wadi wapsy waddy wap And right behind these fine healthy animals who seven all the cows skinny and violence the fat cow which are all too good she wady I want to do to make him better like a such a monster suffer should be hose of them walls will fade as a hell of a river been a stream has gotten a badly jose if won't you tell me what I mean I want to know that Kings ain't stupid a bit I don't have a clue So don't be crude Jose You gotta help me know they're gonna do I was standing doing nothing in a field out of town of songs is a beautiful years of corn Batchy wide they were right, but they were golden, but chickers stood right behind and they can see it in her ears.

[14:17] Tim Rice: Many tattered and torn.

[14:22] Tim Rice: When the bad ones had the girl ones when they came up on behind you, see dear.

[14:50] Tim Rice: Hey, hey, hey, Joseph!

[14:54] Tim Rice: Won't you just tell me won't you tell?

[15:02] Tim Rice: Dream Ren in me.

[15:11] Tim Rice: I say Pharaoh.

[15:12] Tim Rice: Uh-huh.

[15:13] Tim Rice: What was that again?

[15:14] Tim Rice: Hey, hey, hey, Joseph.

[15:17] Tim Rice: Won't you tell me?

[15:22] Tim Rice: Won't you tell me that?

[15:26] Tim Rice: Dream my memory.

[15:36] Tim Rice: Golden Waller giving his all as Elvis Stroke Pharaoh.

[15:40] Tim Rice: Peter Asher went into the management and production side of the music business when the Peter and Gordon hits were over, and found speedy and great success with James Taylor, Linda Ronstadt, and many others, including Neil Diamond, Cher, Dinah Ross, and Randy Newman.

[15:55] Tim Rice: From the moment I was first aware of the Joseph story when aged around seven, the fact that he had eleven brothers had me imagining them as a cricket team.

[16:04] Tim Rice: Ruben was the wickekeeper captain, Simeon the dashing Dennis Compton of the Middle Order, Asher and Dan the Pace Attack, and Gad, a crafty leg spinner.

[16:14] Tim Rice: No place for Joseph, away on tour in Egypt at the time.

[16:18] Tim Rice: 2022, besides being the 50th anniversary of Joseph at the Edinburgh Festival, is also the 50th anniversary of the first time I organized a cricket match and assembled my own team, mainly because no other side would pick me.

[16:32] Tim Rice: That game led to the creation of Heartache CC the following year, and they've now played 733 matches, winning and losing in roughly equal measure, although as I speak, on a winning streak of four.

[16:47] Tim Rice: It's non-celebrity, non-charity, almost aggressively so.

[16:52] Tim Rice: I've staggered out onto the field once or twice this summer, but even the term passenger flatters me these days.

[17:00] Tim Rice: I cannot reminisce about Frank Dunlop's's Edinburgh Festival production of Joseph without recalling the wonderful actor who played the title role Gary Bond.

[17:09] Tim Rice: He played the part with a perfect combination of innocence and knowingness, of charm and, as the character demands, a hint of arrogance.

[17:17] Tim Rice: Gary became a good friend of both Andrew and me, and made another significant contribution to our careers when he took over the role of Che Guevara from David Essex in the world's first production of Evita in London in 1978.

[17:32] Tim Rice: He also played in Andrew's Aspects of Love, and although I didn't appreciate the fact at the time, I first saw him in the Arnold Wesker play Chips with Everything at the Royal Court in 1962.

[17:45] Tim Rice: I was very young, of course.

[17:47] Tim Rice: Gary had a long and distinguished theatrical and film career, which was cut off far too soon when he died in 1995, aged just 56.

[18:00] Tim Rice: Here he is singing almost inevitably any dream will do.

[18:00] ♪ Musical number: "Any Dream Will Do" — performed by Gary Bond ♪

[19:18] Tim Rice: Because fed an darkness, I was left alone.

[19:28] Tim Rice: May I return to the beginning?

[19:36] Tim Rice: The light is dim.

[19:40] Tim Rice: And the dream is too.

[19:45] Tim Rice: And I we are still waiting.

[19:51] Tim Rice: Still hesitating.

[19:55] Tim Rice: Any dream will do.

[20:04] Tim Rice: My Charlotte.

[20:15] Tim Rice: My amazing Charlotte.

[20:23] Tim Rice: Bond, Gary Bond, whose real full name was Gary Bond.

[20:28] Tim Rice: Still much missed.

[20:30] Tim Rice: Fifty years after all that excitement, am I still able, I ask myself, to make a reasonable contribution to musical theater?

[20:37] Tim Rice: After, to put it mildly, a quiet couple of years, it's good to get back to work.

[20:41] Tim Rice: A probable first UK production of Aida, music by Sir Elton, a possible return to Broadway for chess, music by Bjorn and Benny, and a definite new production of From Here to Eternity, Music by Stuart Brayson.

[20:56] Tim Rice: We open in October 2022 at the Charing Cross Theatre, an eight-week run, co-presented by the dynamic young producer Katie Lipson, directed by Brett Smock, who's done a couple of successful out-of-town versions of the show in New York.

[21:10] Tim Rice: And I'm just young enough, still just young enough, to get reasonably excited.

[21:16] Tim Rice: And I hope to keep these podcasts updated with what's going on or coming off.

[21:39] Tim Rice: Presented and written by me, Tim Rice, and produced by the impeccable Peter Hobbs.