This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Ben Rimalower: Broadway Podcast Network presents Giants in the Sky, How Sondheim and Lapine Went Into the Woods with me, Ben Rimalower.

[0:08] Ben Rimalower: Today's guest, Lauren Mitchell, the original Lucinda.

[0:12] Ben Rimalower: Once upon a time.

[0:17] Ben Rimalower: Lauren Mitchell created the role of Cinderella's stepsister Lucinda in the Old Globe and original Broadway productions of Into the Woods, as well as the American Playhouse broadcast on PBS.

[0:28] Ben Rimalower: She most recently returned to the show as the stepmother in the acclaimed City Center Encores production, having previously produced James Lapine's revival of the musical in 2002 and the National Tour of the innovative Fiasco Theater Company production.

[0:44] Ben Rimalower: Her other Broadway producing credits include Matilda, Jersey Boys, A Bronx Tale, Summer, The Farnsworth Invention, You're in Town, Wrong Mountain, High Society, and the most recent revival of Jesus Christ Superstar.

[0:57] Ben Rimalower: Her other Broadway acting credits include Nine, Me and My Girl, The Boys from Syracuse, Annie, and the LA Company of City of Angels.

[1:05] Ben Rimalower: She is currently executive vice president of content for Broadway's Dodgers.

[1:15] Lauren Mitchell: I was already what we refer to as a Maven, you know, a Sondheim Maven. Um, because I never imagined when I began pursuing this that I was ever going to be ending up in musical theater. But if I was gonna do musical theater, that would be okay. I just, uh, I sang because it was a less subjective thing than, you know, you have to have as many tools in your toolkit as you possibly can. So I sang and then more doors seemed to open on that path than others. But if you, uh, even looking back on some of the roles that I did, I was never a musical comedy, you know, kind of person. But for me, um, I remember, uh, my parents, uh, I grew up in California, Los Angeles area, and um, they went to see...

[1:58] Ben Rimalower: Oh, you did? Where were you from?

[2:13] Lauren Mitchell: Uh, Sherman Oaks.

[2:15] Ben Rimalower: You're from Sherman Oaks where my brother lives now. Although technically he's Sherman Oaks, uh, I think some snobby friends of his will say he's Sherman Oaks post office really because he... it was Ben I's until recently.

[2:25] Lauren Mitchell: That was me too. We were 91401, but my brother's in... my brother's in real Sherman Oaks, but we were Sherman Oaks post office.

[2:34] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[2:35] Ben Rimalower: Where did you go to high school, Lauren?

[2:37] Lauren Mitchell: Well, I went... I grew up in Las Velas and for high school, my family moved to Newport Beach. Um, long-winded story as short as possible, the school that I was gonna was at wasn't good and then high school wasn't gonna be good, so they just sort of thought, "Oh, it's pretty there, let's go," but they couldn't stand the politics there. But I had a fantastic experience there. Um, and then they moved back and mostly lived between Los Feliz, Laurel Canyon, and in those areas, and my brother and sister ended up at Fairfax and Hollywood High.

[3:13] Lauren Mitchell: So, um, but anyway, they went to see Follies, um, and that was the first I'd heard of who that was. And then when I was in high school, they had a friend who was a wonderful pianist, but he was not a pianist professionally, he just... it was an abdication. And he freaked out over A Little Night Music and was playing all this stuff from A Little Night Music and was, you know, talking about everything's in waltz time and all that. So I thought... and um, so it already was in my head, you know, that. And then when I went to school, people just... he was already somebody that we all admired. And the turning point for me in terms of determining that it was okay to be in musicals was I saw Sweeney Todd.

[4:03] Lauren Mitchell: And then that's it. So skipping ahead to Sunday in the Park with George, um, I was in New York and it was an absolutely devastating experience seeing that and just... I mean, I get a lump in my throat thinking about it now, just was massively impactful and, um, just, you know, no words. I don't need to say them because I'm sure you've had other people far more articulate than I talk about it. But so to be in... to have the opportunity to audition, let alone be in, um, their next collaboration was a huge and massive deal.

[4:44] Lauren Mitchell: And I didn't know... I knew there had been a reading or something at Playwrights of it, you know, but more than that, I knew nothing. And this was pre-internet days, so you wouldn't have... there would be no way of knowing that there was something percolating. And then the first I heard of it was actually to get to audition for it for the Old Globe. Um, and so, you know, as I said, just the fact of being able to audition was already kind of, "Oh my God." And um, I'll just tell one more story about that, and that I had been in Nine, I played Claudia.

[5:22] Lauren Mitchell: If you go to Lincoln Center, I'm on the recording.

[5:25] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[5:25] Lauren Mitchell: Um, I'm on the recording of Annie also 'cause they waited till I was in it the last year it ran and that's when Lincoln Center finally got around to filming it. But anyway, so, um, I... you know, it was my song I performed and I, uh, I came in and for all I know Paul Ford was playing, I don't know. Um, and I got so far I didn't even sing a note and the introduction, um, time... uh, oh, I cannot hear that.

[5:53] Ben Rimalower: I can't hear that.

[5:54] Lauren Mitchell: Was that an unusual way?

[5:56] Ben Rimalower: Yes, it was an unusual way.

[5:59] Lauren Mitchell: And so it was sort of... it wasn't necessarily downhill from there, but it was like... anyway. So yes, it was a very, very big deal, huge deal to me. And I mean, this is... I mean, this is a fun fact about song. I mean, was it... do we think that he didn't like that specific song or was it like a played-out audition song?

[6:19] Lauren Mitchell: Oh, I'm sure it was just played out. I'm sure it was played out. I couldn't then say, "Yeah, but I played the part." No, I'm sure it was that.

[6:26] Ben Rimalower: Well, but it was your song on Broadway. I mean, it's not like you were just some girl singing "Defying Gravity" or something.

[6:32] Lauren Mitchell: Right, exactly. But it was like I wasn't in there, you know, ten seconds and that was the first thing. Like, "Oh, but happily what you sang instead."

[6:41] Lauren Mitchell: Um, I actually... I might have... maybe there was a comedy song I had. I probably didn't get through that either. Um, I did... I used to do this twisted take on "Mad About the Boy," and I might have done that. Um, and but I do remember that then I was asked to kind of do silly things. And so, um, I kind of remember that. Um, but what I sang second, I repressed or have forgotten.

[6:54] Lauren Mitchell: But I do remember having to do, you know, to read something and have a physical twitch or various kinds of things you might layer on, and I think they were trying to push the limits of comic potential. Um, so anyway.

[7:30] Ben Rimalower: And you, um, so then you got the offer.

[7:33] Lauren Mitchell: Yes.

[7:34] Ben Rimalower: And, um, to go... I assume you guys rehearsed in New York, I think, is that right?

[7:40] Lauren Mitchell: We did. We rehearsed, um, in New York, um, at... is it... what is that? I don't... I want to say it's not West Westbest.

[7:53] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[7:53] Lauren Mitchell: Down like near the river and, um, we slept down there and, uh, we were down there I want to say three weeks or something.

[8:01] Lauren Mitchell: Yeah. I think before going out to San Diego.

[8:04] Ben Rimalower: Now with Nine, had you done any of the kind of developmental prior to Broadway?

[8:10] Lauren Mitchell: No, no. I was a re... I was an early replacement.

[8:13] Lauren Mitchell: Oh, Nine.

[8:14] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[8:15] Lauren Mitchell: So I wasn't there. And had you done any new musicals before this?

[8:19] Lauren Mitchell: No.

[8:20] Lauren Mitchell: No. Actually, that's not true. I had done... I don't even remember the name of it. Something that had... it... I should remember, but I don't. Um, but it was like a small limited run at Fill in the Blank Theater off-Broadway. Um, and I didn't have a big part, but we learned the music a lot. So no, this was a brand new experience. And we're like, I... you know, as a Sondheim Maven, I... I don't even, you know, I mean, I'm maybe I'd read James Lapine's wonderful book Putting It Together last year, which was so... I mean, honestly, wet my appetite partly to do this podcast.

[8:56] Lauren Mitchell: But I'm curious, like at that time he hadn't not written the book yet. What did you have an awareness of what they'd gone through with Sunday in the Park and the new or of other new musicals that had been developed in the, you know, the famous stories of... no, was that... no, because it was, um, the notion of, um, developing shows in this way... I'm trying to recall, um, if Big River had already happened.

[9:26] Lauren Mitchell: It had, right?

[9:26] Ben Rimalower: Yes, Big River had happened.

[9:28] Lauren Mitchell: Yeah, after, right? And if I'm not mistaken, Big River was not, if not the first, one of the first, um, shows to be developed at a not-for-profit theater prior to coming. So, so this pathway was new. I mean, I've, um, I think it was still an era where, um, people were doing out-of-town tryouts.

[9:51] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[9:51] Lauren Mitchell: You know, so, um, or they were just coming in cold and, uh, or there was a workshop and it came, yeah, you know, like with Nine and, um, I can't think of... there, I'm sure there were a few others, but the notion of developing work in that way was new.

[10:08] Lauren Mitchell: Um, but for, uh, there were what, uh, you would know as well as I, I think a lot of people were doing workshops, but not necessarily doing a developmental... what we... I don't even think the phrase developmental production was something that was common in the vernacular at that time either. I think maybe were there maybe sort of accidental examples like Man of La Mancha or Annie where they were at a regional theater.

[10:31] Ben Rimalower: Right, a good speech.

[10:32] Lauren Mitchell: Yes, I think you're right. Accidental examples. But, but it wasn't with this kind of, you know, what do we call enhancement money and, and like tension of a pre-Broadway production.

[10:41] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[10:41] Lauren Mitchell: Right, exactly. And was there... did you have that awareness as an actor in 1986 that that's what this was?

[10:43] Lauren Mitchell: Yes, yes and no. Yes and no. I think we all certainly expected that it... that we were doing this and, and but I think... let me repeat, I think there was an expectation that this would move forward, but there wasn't an understanding that it would move forward.

[11:06] Lauren Mitchell: Right. If it, you know, there is like, "Don't count on it," kind of a thing. Uh, there was no question I would think anybody would have thought it's Sondheim and Lapine, it's gonna go somewhere, but, um, but the path had not been defined yet.

[11:22] Lauren Mitchell: The timeline hadn't been defined. Not... there were no... no one had any sense of future commitment after that or even during. As actors, did you have like refuse first refusals in your contracts or anything or... no, no, they didn't have that then.

[11:38] Lauren Mitchell: I mean, so was it like a standard like Lore contract or however many hundreds of dollars you made or... if memory serves, I mean, I don't think it was that much later that that it was, um, implied there is a provision for people to have a first rider refusal, which doesn't really mean much, they... or a buyout.

[11:58] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[11:58] Lauren Mitchell: So maybe there was that, but I think, again, you know, I'm only saying that with the benefit of knowledge I've gained later.

[12:06] Lauren Mitchell: Yeah, um, as opposed to what I knew then about what the rules were, I... I don't think we had that expectation.

[12:13] Lauren Mitchell: And also as an actor who at that time you'd been on some national tours, which I, you know, production contracts and was great for you financially at that time. Was this were you thinking this is a sacrifice, I'm going to make this? No, no, techno. No. Uh I, um that was going back to what I said earlier about me, I couldn't have imagined that my seminal work as an actor would have been in production contracts on tour or on Broadway. I just, I mean, so I skipped the whole part about, you know, being in the basement and doing something just for the sheer art of it. You know, so I was thrilled to do something new and it wouldn't, that didn't matter at all. You know, didn't matter at all. And, uh, and just one more thing on that before we get into San Diego, like what did you have any inclination in that time that in the future you would be interested in producing?

And that? No. No. I, I knew, um, when we were putting the show together in New York because the stepsisters are also two reasons. One, um, I was covering the baker's wife so I was in rehears, you know, so if you weren't actually in a scene and if you were covering somebody, you, you were in rehearsal watching.

[13:31] Yeah. Um, and then, um, when we were in t uh 10 out of twelve, um, and in previews, I, I was out in the house watching a lot and I was, and I found the process backing. So I think that that was the first opportunity I had to see, um, how shows are put together and, and how decisions that are made, um, impact, you know, the next day and, and just seeing the immediacy of, of that kind of work. And then it was years later, which we may or may not discuss today that I realized it's, it's not only those decisions, but sometimes success or failure of shows can be based on decisions that are made years before actors are a part of it.

[14:14] Yeah. Um, so, um, but, uh, certainly the process of, of being a part of Into the Woods was a seed planted.

[14:22] Yeah. So, okay, so there's three weeks of rehearsal or whatever it is down at the West Beth. And at that point were, did you understudy cover the Baker's wife also in San Diego or had that? I did not. I didn't. Um, I didn't. I don't know who did. I think Kay McClellan who played at, yeah.

[14:44] In San Diego, um, you know, I don't really remember if we, if they had us covering or if they had people there doing it. But I know that, uh, Kay played Rapunzel also.

[14:57] Oh interesting. Yeah.

[14:59] So she played, um, Rapunzel and the stepsister and I don't remember if, um, Rapunzel appeared when she appeared in the first act, but I know that we had to kill off Clorinda had to be lost to the giant because she had to be Rapunzel in the second act.

[15:17] It's that necessity the mother of invention.

[15:17] Yes. And so, I mean, were those kind of, were changes being made already at in rehearsals in New York before you even got to San Diego?

[15:30] I'm gonna say probably, um, we went to San Diego with very little of the music written or if not written, we didn't have it. Let's just say, um, uh, we went there without second act music and, and the music kept rolling in while we were out there. Um, you know, f I'm so sorry that it's a long time ago, and some of the questions you're asking I haven't thought about, like I'm gonna guess that yes, because James was always rewriting.

[16:02] Yeah, we probably did, but I, I couldn't tell you today whether they were big changes or small. I have better memories of things that happened later than everything that you're giving me.

[16:12] I so, but did you, um, I, if you were having this experience of being in the sandbox and this was your basement that you'd been waiting for as an artist, did, did you feel that kind of energy in the company in general that people were, were sort of pumped to be discovering it together with the artistic team?

[16:34] Yeah, I, I think that, um, it was, it was a very talented and intelligent group of people.

[16:43] And, um, so I seem to remember conversation, you know, that, that there were, um, yeah, I, I, I would say yes, you know, and it, but it depended on who, who it was and, and, and which roles, you know. Certainly more some people like Chip and Joanna might have more, um, more to talk about or ask questions about than say, you know, Florinda and Lucinda, um, you know, at, at any particular moment in their journey.

[17:11] But, but yeah.

[17:13] And, and from that vantage point, um, as Lucinda and, you know, being able to watch a lot of stuff happen, did you have the sense of like, I don't know if you could, you know, could have known how iconic the show would be or, you know, the life that it would have, but was there a sense of like this is closed, it still needs work here and there, or, you know, what, what was your experience of it like as a piece in that early stage?

[17:39] Um, that's a really good question.

[17:49] I, I just have more of a sense of what happens later.

[17:52] Yeah.

[17:52] But I, I think, I think there was a general sense of it was very, it was serious.

[17:58] I mean that the second act was very serious, and, um, I, we weren't privy necessarily to what the goals of what the next, you know, what the writing was going to be.

[18:13] Um, I also don't remember how long James and Steve were there, um, after we started performing there.

[18:25] And I feel like there was new material added at the end of our run there, but I’m not a hundred percent sure of that.

[18:32] Um, if I feel like No One is Alone was added very late, but that could have been late in the two weeks or so after we started performing, they was there or at the end of the run.

[18:43] I, I don't remember which. Um, I th, I think the, I think we knew it was special and, and, um, deeply felt.

[18:59] Um, but even on Broadway to have been able to predict what would, which if we get there, what I experienced doing it at City Center never in a million years would I being around.

[19:12] Never it was, uh, that was unreal.

[19:16] It is, I'm sure it still is unreal, but no, no.

[19:19] No, we didn't have the any sense of that then or any sense of it, um, even on Broadway.

[19:25] Yeah.

[19:26] No.

[19:26] And talk whenever whether it was at the end of rehearsals or sometime during the run when No One is Alone came in, was that a sort of seminal moment in that process of, oh okay this is the move on or, you know, that moment?

[19:26] Yeah, definitely.

[19:26] Yeah, no, there were things, but there were things in it that, um, a lot of things that, um, um, the I, I used to be able to sing it I wouldn't even if I could I wouldn't do it for you now but the witch had had, um, a song that we absolutely loved, um, and it was a jazz waltz, um, it was boom crunch but it was a completely other feel and, um, we loved it it was our favorite, um, and by we I mean Kay and I, um, and probably others too but you know, but um it, it was changed, um, on Broadway I don't, I think maybe to be more burntette vocally specific and Cinderella had a different song too.

[20:29] Um, so things like that got changed but I didn't know I don't know why Cinderella's song was changed.

[20:34] I remember that, oh that was good this one's good too, you know, those kinds of things happen.

[20:39] Um, can you ask me that question again because maybe I'm, I misunderstood that was interesting too.

[20:45] I’m curious just what, what No One is Alone, it was No One is Alone I mean obviously it's a, it's a beautiful and, uh, emotional song that the first time hearing it must have been, you know, very in that context. But I'm curious if that felt like a sort of, um, coalescing of, you know, did, did the show come into a clearer view for you or, or you as a company even if you know, in, in when that happened. Was that what, what was the significance of that moment?

[21:14] I think that it was a absolutely beautiful song and everybody wept when they heard it.

[21:19] Um, and I think, you know, when you're in it the overall at least for me maybe, um, it it's hard to step back and see what the arc of the emotional journey of the show is when you're in it.

[21:33] Sure.

[21:33] Um, because I didn't have the benefit of being affected by those things.

[21:38] So I certainly could feel that the beauty of it and the power of it when we all heard it, but not necessarily how I might feel if I was in the audience having been there through the whole journey to get to that, you know.

[21:52] Um, but, um, there were, there were other things that like Agony is a beautiful song.

[22:01] Yeah.

[22:02] Um, it's beautiful.

[22:03] Yeah.

[22:04] Um, and so to have it be so wildly and funny, yeah, was that was something that that we love, you know, that I remember being, uh, loving that that the this gorgeous melody was put to use in this in this way beautifully and perfectly but, but, um, that that kind of thing struck struck me too, um, the Baker song, um, No More, yeah that that was a killer.

[22:32] Yeah.

[22:33] Um, so yeah I don't know I, I think that that, that what you're asking I think is something that at least speaking only for myself evolved over time because when you're in it and it's n it's it it's different, you know, the rewriting of every, every day and coming in for rehearsal every day, you don't have the ch, the the opportunity to really kind of step back, or at least my brain at that time didn't.

[22:33] I mean one thing I guess I'm trying to understand, which, uh, the sense I'm getting so far from the people I've spoken to is it doesn't seem like there was a drastic tonal shift in the show.

[23:11] It seems like every, the work that was done from what I'm gleaning was all about refining and clarifying and delineating, but not really, uh, making kind of big adjustments in what the show was about or or what it was supposed to feel like or whatever.

[23:30] That sounds right.

[23:30] Yeah.

[23:30] I think, you know, uh, as I'm sure y you know, without, um, um, me so for forgive me if I'm explaining something that's just seems so obvious.

[23:41] But the, but the best work is when all of that is integrated into one unified tone.

[23:48] And I, I think from the get go, Into the Woods always had that.

[23:52] And, um, and what James wrote and what Steven wrote, they, they were of one voice, if you will.

[24:03] Yeah, you know, there wasn't like a baton handoff at all.

[24:06] Um, as evidenced by, for example, as I said, you know, places where we didn't have music that there would be James had written a monologue for a character and then later that would be a song, but, but obviously it was what Sondheim's version of that monologue, but it was still all on the same, yeah, same tonal path.

[24:26] Lauren Mitchell: And I think that um James' direction of the actors was very much of keeping everyone on that same path as well.

[24:36] Ben Rimalower: Because you could easily not.

[24:38] Lauren Mitchell: Yes. I mean, we've all seen versions of it.

[24:40] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[24:41] Lauren Mitchell: We've all seen versions of yeah of it where where people can be wildly all over the map in terms of how they're playing.

[24:49] Ben Rimalower: But we were all in the same world.

[24:51] Lauren Mitchell: And I think that that there was very much a focus on doing that.

[24:56] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[24:58] Lauren Mitchell: I I'm, you know, I I know that part of I think what's so I don't know if the right word is romantic, but about the Sondheim Le Pine collaboration and, you know, Sondheim coming, you know, at in to Le Pine in this moment after Merrily flops and you know being could have been at the end of a long career. I mean, he'd had all these great successes. And I mean, he was not an old man, but he'd had plenty of hits and um and to have this completely new, different uh partnership, you know, and here they are coming on out on the heels of this great success with Sunday and the Pulitzer and all the great press and you know, at least within the industry, so much uh admiration. Um was Le Pine a different kind of uh director for you to work with, having been in, you know, more traditional uh Broadway type scenarios.

[25:55] Lauren Mitchell: Um yes, I think so, because he's also the writer, he's also the author. Um and he has such a strong visual storytelling sense, so he's got such a great eye. Um and he's very intelligent and and ready references of of um of things that um are not necessarily what you might talk about if you're um I don't want to, you know, disparage other kinds of work, but but it just was it a different yeah kind of intellectual plane.

[26:30] Ben Rimalower: Sure.

[26:31] Lauren Mitchell: And I think that was true of pretty much all the people that were in it too. And I was I rem I'm reminded too I don't really know where you want to apply this but but he referenced um the uses of enchantment in Betelheim's book.

[26:47] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[26:47] Lauren Mitchell: Right. And so I may be wrong about this but then the nature of fairy tales and how they are in all cultures and how they answer fears and so forth and I think the thought of creating this other fai fairy tale to to speak to whatever the collective we were feeling at that time.

[27:05] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[27:06] Lauren Mitchell: Um so that I think at least that was something I remember permeating for me. Oh one thing I had said to James Lapine was that I felt um having seen Into the Woods so many times and so many incarnations over the years, seeing it at uh at City Center and and then again on Broadway, that for the first time the second act didn't feel so dark to me. You know there's so much that's apocalyptic about the world today sadly and it it that they but in a way it made into the woods feel very immediate and relatable in the second act. And um he seemed to um sympathize with that but he also pointed out you know all the resonance that that people felt with the age crisis and and other things um original was that something that was uh being talked about if not as part of the process than just kind of alongside it as it was coming together.

[28:03] Lauren Mitchell: Um yeah this this is a a question that particularly with a the city center that um that uh has come up i in the same way for example when we did the revival um 9-11 had just happened right and um we also happened to um co-produced uh the fiasco production yes i love that the national tour of that I didn't know that that you were involved with that too which I love but we we started perform that production started performances in Washington DC in uh what uh December of twenty sixteen.

[28:45] Ben Rimalower: Oh wow.

[28:45] Lauren Mitchell: And so you know when I went down there and I I don't remember who had recently passed but when I went down there to see it and I got there and all the flags on the Washington monument were at half mast. You know and it just felt like they're at half mast for the country because this is just bad. Um but but um but certainly it and I think the best way to describe it is that you know how many plays did Shakespeare write during the plagues and but none of them are about the plague.

[29:19] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[29:19] Lauren Mitchell: And yet the audience going to see them has that you know it it it's a context that's inescapable and people bring to that what they're watching whatever the world they're in. And I think that that's absolutely true um for what was happening in the AIDS uh crisis at that time. Absolutely you know something that was mentioned but doesn't need to be highlighted or even discussed because it is it was you know part of our world at that time. 9-11 was slightly different. Um there were um I think it it um and James is a better person to ask about this, but he he did look at the giant death in a different way. Um I don't know that the fiasco production made any uh changes with respect to what was going on with with He Who Shall Not Be Named.

But um but I will say but I I think but then it came up, you know, we were doing sitting around the table with Lear on the first day and and Neil Patrick Harris asked, you know, the tone of the first act is so far you know do we need to be looking at that in order to be able to give um uh true storytelling to the second and I I don't think the answer is yes, but I do think that that there is some tempering of of truth that needs to be told in order to have the truth of the second. At the same time however maybe this is the Into the woods that people need right now.

[31:05] Ben Rimalower: Yeah you know in that respect.

[31:08] Lauren Mitchell: Yeah. Um so I I think you still get the messages that you're supposed to get from it, but it isn't as dark.

[31:15] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[31:15] Lauren Mitchell: Um well it's funny you bring up Shakespeare because I mean I I think of Shakespeare often in terms of Sondheim, you know, that a hundred years from now or two hundred years from now will all these shows be just kind of throughout the culture and the way that Hamlet and MacDeath and and you know um Midsummer Night's Dream and everything ha ha are. Um and I'm curious what it was like being uh a New York theater actor and then being in San Diego and doing this show of of uh of Sandheim did were you watching the audience? Were you feeling like they were were you were you sat as were you satisfied by the audience at that time?

[31:57] Lauren Mitchell: In in the in San Diego?

[31:59] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[31:59] Lauren Mitchell: Um well they were all subscribers. I don't remember. You know, I I just I remember that the the the show might have been a little overlong. I remember that. Um but I honestly don't we we were so immersed in what you know we it was a it was a it's a long process because we were in rehearsal a lot and um and I think it was lovely to be in San Diego when you had the time to go to the ocean and things like that. But uh but I I don't remember the audiences really um particularly and also the old globe audience then is probably not the same kind of audience that that goes there now.

[32:38] Ben Rimalower: Um yeah I know that's a really interesting question because I've done other shows in collaboration with La Jolla and you wonder, gosh they love it here, but will they will that translate yeah to New York or vice versa or will this only work in New York? Um I I don't remember there being a fundamental difference to be honest.

[32:54] Lauren Mitchell: And then when it was over and you came back, do you do you remember a waiting game? I know there was another workshop before Broadway.

[33:02] Ben Rimalower: Yes what was that all like for you?

[33:05] Lauren Mitchell: Um well so we all went our separate ways. I think I don't remember how long we went our separate ways, but um there was no definite uh timetable or plan. Um but slowly but surely um sort of word you know trickles around and I had to come in and m meet but I wouldn't say it it was I I don't know if it was an audition or or not but let's just say for the lack of a you know I I didn't have an offer so I suppose it was um and I had to read some of the baker's wife but it was otherwise lovely and never it didn't feel stressful so I'm gonna assume that I was probably gonna do it and it was just a question of was I gonna do that too.

[33:51] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[33:52] Lauren Mitchell: Um and so that would have been let's just say beginning of the summer and then we did a workshop that was dedicated to exploring the end of the show because there was and I and um you're gonna ask me what we were exploring and but there was because I think it got changed a number of times within the workshop and then got changed on Broadway and then was changed again the tour, you know there were and then when we did the re the revival um like is the is the baby is is the baker's baby the narrator right you know does it become so I think there was a lot of of that you know how to end it. And so that we did that. Um obviously by the time we were doing that workshop we knew we were going to Broadway and we had dates for Broadway because it was it was meant to be something that you did and then they took a break uh I think to address any more rewriting and then we went into rehearsal proper after that.

[34:51] Ben Rimalower: So it wasn't that long but you know I suppose not knowing I wouldn't say it was torturous but because it wasn't that long but but but definitely uh leaving the old globe and not knowing what was happening uh was true.

[35:06] Ben Rimalower: And I'm sorry, I meant should have asked you this already. Were the Dodgers involved at the Old Globe?

[35:11] Lauren Mitchell: Yes. Um I think yes.

[35:15] Ben Rimalower: So Michael, my husband, partner, whatever all of the above, um, was the exec producer and and then Dodgers also were managers of it.

[35:26] Lauren Mitchell: And but he was not your husband yet then.

[35:28] Ben Rimalower: No, we were married to other people then.

[35:30] Lauren Mitchell: Is is that where you met?

[35:32] Ben Rimalower: Yes, I'm just getting my w uh some water. Um yes, but but you know, as I said earlier about Sean Lyons, I I I didn't know who he was, you know.

[35:41] Lauren Mitchell: Oh yeah, you know producer.

[35:44] Ben Rimalower: Oh, okay, fine.

[35:45] Lauren Mitchell: Yeah. I mean, um the people I that I most recall from that era from uh from the producing side were um Rocka Lantisman and Heidi.

[35:53] Ben Rimalower: Um Heidi and Jar.

[35:56] Lauren Mitchell: Yeah. And so Heidi was there every day.

[36:00] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, and then so then they were involved obviously in that workshop where where you did the different endings. And and was that workshop with the cast from the old globe still?

[36:10] Lauren Mitchell: No, that was um and most of the people, many of the people from the old globe went forward. Um, but it no, that was with the people that ultimately were were the Broadway cast.

[36:24] Lauren Mitchell: Bernadette did not do the workshop. That that was Betty Buckley in that workshop. Okay, and she had done the workshop before, and maybe you weren't even I I I only learned this recently that there was this I knew there'd been this thing at um as I mentioned, um at playwrights and um and I think she was in that. So I don't know what transpired because Ellen Foley was at the old globe. Right. And then when we went into rehearsal for Broadway, it was Bernadette. Do you remember the any anticipation or I guess there was a reading that Bernadette came and did like I believe it was with all of you, like right before like just w as she was accepting the part, she did like a like a one day, maybe she was like, you know, kind of still learning it, but everybody else had already done the workshop.

Honestly, I don't remember that. Yeah. I don't know. In your memory, it was Bernadette came in the first rehearsal. That was the and was were you excited about that? I know that she had bringing in that Sunday in the park. Well, yeah. And also just she is the loveliest woman on the planet. Right. Um, so that kind of energy was, you know, immediately welcome and apparent. Um yeah, no, everybody was pretty excited for for her, and obviously she has you know, she did have that, does have that history with with them. And yeah, um although this was the uh the main sec the other component. I mean, it's crazy to even imagine that pre this. Um and uh was I know there was still a lot of rewriting going on uh in that process.

Did did the bulk of that happen not until previews, or did you feel that there was new stuff coming in throughout? No, uh yeah, I think the majority of of uh they did a ton of work between Old Globe and and New York. Um there was there were things that we worked on. Well, as I said, Bernadette got a new song and previews. Um I at one point and I I might I don't remember when there were three little pigs that went, but I think that might have been at the old globe and they got caught at the old globe. Um I'm trying to think. Um I don't recall there being um major reordering or re-jiggering of things, like the the the the order of of events remained the same and there was a a lot of of uh fine-tuning and finessing.

The biggest change that I can remember, although other people that you'll talk to because they would remember the biggest changes that affected the VM, but we we worked we worked hours and weeks on um what I don't think it was called second midnight, but it was second midnight, it was in the second midnight, but and and it was a song sung between the parents and the children, and it it was very long and complicated. And if if you were to to tally the amount of rehearsal time dedicated to this, you would have thought it was the most important thing in the show. Um and um we did it at one we did it at the invited dress and it was gone immediately. Wow. That was it. Because it didn't record from that.

Really? Some bootleg recording. Because and some of the music I knew. Because it was themes from other things. That sounds right. Yes. How do you say to a child and then that Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It comes back. It was weird hearing this crazy bootleg and then going, oh wait, I um so that's hilarious that that was the um Yeah, that was it. Hours and hours and hours and and that was it cut. In its entirety. Like completely cut. But it served no purpose really because um it didn't move the plot forward at all and it didn't tell us any more information that we needed to know. But anyway. Well I mean was that I you know in my Sontime and Le Pine and then Into the Woods it's also sort of um like vaulted in in you know certainly in my mind you know it as opposed to most shows you know I've been a part of where you know there's just a lot of you know even the successes kind of actors and everybody else hanging out in the hallway and outside smoking and complaining about this and the team doesn't know what they're doing and they should have it was it like that it was a human like that or was it of course it was absolutely I particularly um on on um uh the part of Kay and and myself I don't want to throw joy in there but because we were in those bloody corsets that were so uncomfortable and um so we had opportunity we weren't allowed to go to our dressing rooms either so the it in and um so it felt like hours in between but but really it wasn't but it always felt that way.

So yeah of course you had plenty of time to say why isn't this cut? Why is it you know we would be like the the Muppet critics in the in the box. But um Well, I I like I like the um the glamorous uh uh female incarnation of those critics um would was that um were there things that to this day you were like, oh, you know, I I I wish that uh this thing was still there or that was cut instead or you know, w were there any um Lauren Mitchell uh Mitchell editing. Nothing that I did. No. We were we were um uh no, I I would love to hear that jazz waltz song again sometime 'cause it's it was just so great. Yeah. I it may not have been called Boom Crunch. I I I'm embarrassed because I have a I had a cassette recording of it and um but but no, I don't think so.

I don't think so. Um and then, you know, the making of a thing is so different than the running of a thing. And um uh well I'm I look forward to you talking to Paul Gemini. I'd love to hear what he has to say. I'd be very interested to hear some of the things that Paul Ford had to say. But but a lot of what what was wonderful was I mean, we spend a tremendous amount of time on music. Tremendous amount. And and that was one of the revelations for me when I did City Center, thinking I knew it when I didn't, you know, and remembering wow, it this is really hard. It's really, really hard. Um, even in an you know I knew it, um, but I'm in another track and that track and I used to uh make fun of Kay because K I mean not K of Joy because Joy's always counting, constantly counting.

And then then I had to do it and I knew why she was counting because it was so rhythmically hard. And yet when you listen to it it's like them harder than Lucinda's. Yeah, well, because the stepmother comes in first and and and they're and they're not but it's not only true of her character, it's true of pretty much all the characters that the vocal lines and the accompaniment are not necessarily you don't you know, it's not cord chord, you know, come i i it's it's very, very hard. And um I had forgotten until I was doing it that I had benefit of the old globe and the workshop and a full rehearsal process to learn it and I get it into my yeah body. Um but so much of what I do remember about the learning process was how Paul taught the music and Paul Ford and some of the on the spot kind of vocal arrangements and things like that that were done, which were just fantastic.

Yeah. Um so all that was great. He was amazing. But uh just skipping ahead to the running of it, you know, then Kay and I are our raise on debt many times was to see what we could do to make Jem and Yani laugh. Of course. Um so you know, they had so we found other things to how to do besides criticize, you know. Well he would do a things that you would do to make Oh, who knows, you know, just r random things. Just um because uh I will say that um we we ought to have been reined in probably. But but we we did constantly find new things that were small enough to amuse ourselves and others, but not necessarily to steal focus. So but that was the uh uh I c if I told you they'd be like, you know, like particularly as blind girls, when we had canes and glasses, there was no stopping us.

Yeah. We're not that miserable. Exactly. You know, all of that. Uh and then what what about covering Joanna? Like how what do you remember the first time you went on and and uh those Yes, I I do and I missed an entrance and was probably you know, I I I going to the rhythm thing, I uh it was they they were impossible shoes to fill and there were things that in her performance that I've never seen anybody be able to pull off then or you know, or since just she just uh was fantastic and just had such a spectacular um center and sense of humor and um was incredible. So um but over time I I I grew to really love doing it. But in the beginning I I probably was just so petrified and bad. Did you go on a lot?

Ultimately I did go on a respectable amount. Yes. And and then Kay had covered also. So then, you know, like we would trade off on vacations and um and and um so between the two of us over time because then after after Joanna left, then Mary Gordon Murray was there and so um but did you sing for the whole run? No, I I I stayed a year. Does that mean that you had to then come back a second time to when the video was yeah, that was amazing. Um because we'd all left at different times, a lot of us and um and there were core group of people that were still there. And like with all long running shows, they they they grow. There's you know, things grow, performances shift, all the rest of it. But we all brought back the version of the show we were doing when we left which wasn't the same as uh some of the other people.

So that was that was um that was kind of a fascinating process, but it was such a I mean I it was great. I loved that and then to be to be able to do that. Several performances, right? And did you come back for a couple of weeks or just this I think yeah we may have rehearsed for a week or two. Um and then they filmed it over four different performances but there were pickup shots during the day and all of that. I mean going to your point about did you know things would have such resonance later I I could never have imagined that that recording would have the resonance that it has and how many people will s say oh you know I'm in theater because I saw that. Um yep. But uh um I think maybe been Joanna who said this is sort of like trying to recover from a stroke because trying to remember what it was and it was um but I it was great fun to be able to do that and it was real you know joyous kind of experience to have.

Yeah. Yeah. And um did you at that time did you ever go see the show after you'd left to see any of the replacement casts or anything? I I I don't believe so but I don't think it was a a a function of not wanting to as much as I was either out of town doing something else or yeah.

[48:41] Lauren Mitchell: Um I don't remember doing it. Let's put it that way. And so then I assume you didn't see the national tour anywhere or anything like that about no. But we got to see a run through of it before they left town and in the run um James let each of us sit out and watch the show. Um when so I did get to see it. Um yeah, and that that was a fantastic experience too, just because the things like going to your point about you know, complaining about stuff, the things you complain about like, why do they allow me to go? You know, you sit out and watch it, you don't even notice it.

[49:18] Yeah. And also but also in the in the plus column in a big way to notice how spectacularly good the show is, you know, and to so and how has that appreciation evolved in the years since um well I think certainly working on the revival absolutely being reminded of what a strong piece it is, you know, and and um and then again uh then again just most recently, just the power of it.

[49:58] Yeah uh and its ability to affect people and it it is it's um it's a marvel in that way. I you know, you just uh when you're in as I said, you know, when you're in it, you you can't possibly imagine the effect it's gonna have on people or or what they're gonna take away from it and and just uh just how strong the writing is, I think is is uh and that that it speaks to pretty much any time and anyone.

[50:33] Um and that's why it it it it has this uh longevity or one of the reasons anyway. Yeah, yeah. And and and and uh I other than just the that quality of the piece itself, what was the difference um in having uh produced the revival and then also the tour of the fiasco production you mentioned compared to everything else you produced that you didn't necessarily create an original role in.

[51:07] Hmm. Do do you feel that the it it br you you're already ahead of the game as a producer on those or less less homework to do or something? You know, what's your what is the difference? I uh well in in a in a practical sense, I already know how the show is put together.

[51:26] Yeah. So um a big thing that um although each production is different. Right. Fiasco, we didn't put that show together. So um Carter, is that right? It um I I believe they did it at the McCarter, then they did it at the roundabout with their core company.

[51:43] And then when it went on tour, um it was um and I I I'm trying to recall if it was proscenium when they did it at the roundabout or if it was a partial was it pr in the in the downstairs space it was so so that wasn't a big change. But um but it was a change for them to uh to replicate what they created as a company on other people.

[52:06] Oh, I didn't realize it was other people. That's interesting. Yeah. Um the two directors directed it. Yeah. Um, but they had been in it, you know, before. Um, but to suggest I you know, uh other than um a knowledge of the show, I I certainly hadn't we had no role in in what they created.

[52:29] So so I had to learn their version by watching watching, watching. Um so I think certainly with a revival, knowing it um as someone who's been in it to know that this is the sequence of events. But that said, it was a very different production, you know, uh visually and just what the um um in particular the the context as I mentioned earlier of when we were doing it and um and just the shift and balance of of the people in it and how certain stories take a different um prominence.

[53:03] Um so that was fascinating to see. I so I think I'm ahead of the game in that respect. Yeah. Um but I think in terms of switching the other part of my brain which is the marketplace part of it as well as the creating you know the the production part of it um I think it was helpful but not essential to have that kind of intimate you know I I think I think first and foremost um that having a passion for it, you know, that certainly um is a helpful uh a helpful thing to have when you're producing something to be passionate about it.

[53:41] And so I think that for sure because I've I've done a few where I wasn't you know and you you just are which sometimes is good, you know, because then you have some sort of emotional detachment and kind of go that doesn't work. But um no it um yeah I don't know what more I have to say about that.

[54:00] How did your involvement in the city center production um come about? I mean was that just a phone call from from casting or I mean it was uh it was I got this email from Bernie Kelsey's office Craig Burns, I think.

[54:16] And um and uh followed quickly there up come by a uh an email from James saying uh a heads up. Um and just it was a the uh the loveliest um note saying I think it would be fun if you you know, I know you haven't been on the boards for a while, but if you would think about playing the stepmother, and um and it was connected to uh the fact that it's these recent passing and bringing the past into the future.

[54:46] Um and I think Lear at that time had a notion of intergenerational um she had the the community chorus and so I don't know if that has something to do with it too, but but the fact that um just bringing uh I can't really say it better, just the path into this into the into the present.

[55:07] Um and it was an it was um after I got over the terror of it, um it was a very, very, very meaningful and um you know powerfully emotional experience to be um hearing it with new voices and um all of it and just sort of being able to uh relive some of the memories of putting it together um and the people, you know, and I I I said to more than a few people that you know uh plus with City Center, you're on stage with the orchestra, so to be able to hear the orchestrations that way every night um was such a gift and um that I would see ghosts, but but in a good way, you know, see the ghosts of those performances past and and how that has carried forward was was really such an amazing experience.

[55:59] And had you not performed voice from Miracles, is that right? That's correct. I did a concert with Bernadette um where I think I don't recall what uh it was a Broadway cares thing that she did.

[56:16] Um that Kay and Joy and I um did a little step family thing with with Bernadette. But that was that was I want to say 10 years ago. So no, I hadn't done anything.

[56:28] Yeah. I had to go to a vocal coach with Mike Reckles, who did an amazing job reminding me that yes, you still can sing. So that was that was terror number one, sort of overcome. But yeah.

[56:38] And then you know, you you either go full in or you better go home. Yeah. So um so um everyone was terrified, so that was helpful too.

[56:49] Yes. Um because trying to put that show up in ten days was terrifying. So uh so I was happy that I had a lot of fellow terrorized actors to work with and and we all kind of jumped in together.

[57:02] Did it whet your appetite? Do do we no absolutely not? No, no, no, no. It's hard.

[57:10] It's very hard. Yeah. No. Also, you know, um the hardest part, um, and it was actually even doing voice from Syracuse because I hadn't done I'd already been producing for a while doing that, is turning uh my brain off, you know, turning the part of my brain that takes in everything to only focus on one thing.

[57:30] You can only do this one thing. Um and so that was um that was a challenge. It's hard to to turn a multitasking, constantly multitasking brain off say no, because if you don't focus on just this thing, you will not remember what you're going to say.

[57:46] Um, but um but no, it's I I was so happy it was like going to my hometown, I saw everybody, had a great time, wished them well. And then, you know, cheer them on, of course.

[58:01] Obviously, went back to see it. I've been back to see it a couple of times and cheer them on, and that's been great fun too. I don't know if there's a revival in fifteen years, they call you to play the grandmother.

[58:12] Right. That's it. I don't think I could talk either Merilou or Annie Golden sort of doing an amazing, yeah. Amazing job with that right now.

[58:21] So well, Lauren, this is such a treat for me. I'm really grateful for your time.

[58:26] Lauren Mitchell: Oh, not at all. Thank you.