This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Ben Rimalower: Broadway Podcast Network presents Giants in the Sky. How Sondheim and Lapine went into the woods with me, Ben Rimalower. Today's guest, Danielle Ferland.

[0:11] Danielle Ferland: Once upon a time.

[0:17] Ben Rimalower: You were on Broadway in Sunday in the Park with George.

[0:20] Danielle Ferland: Right.

[0:20] Ben Rimalower: And now you are not on the video of Sunday in the Park with George. Is that because you had left the show already?

[0:26] Danielle Ferland: Well, yes. I mean, I left the show and the thing about, they wanted it to be as close to the painting as possible. And there were some jokes every now and then, like, "Don't grow, don't grow." Because, you know, the girl in the painting is probably three. And it was a little bit of a, you know, a joke. But honestly, this I don't remember. I don't remember. I feel as though there was some, they did reach out to us to tell us why. I don't remember. I feel like that might have been the reason because it was the, because other people had left the show. I think it had a lot to do with it being that I was, I had grown a lot because this was after I'd left the show and right before it closed, I think, when they, so no, that is not me.

Although some people think it is me because, you know, why wouldn't you? When it's the, I think every other cast member's original. Right, right. But I seem to recall there being, I don't, I didn't take the call myself, but my parents talking because they, I think, explained why this was going to happen. I'm not going to be in it. Regardless, why did you leave the show when you left the show? Sunday? Yeah. Did you go to a different job or was it?

[1:48] Danielle Ferland: No, no. I think it was school commuting. Cause I lived in Connecticut and my mother tutored me. You know, at the time, you know, right now I think that was probably the reason, but I don't remember it. I remember it sort of being like, "Oh, well, that's what we're going to do." Like, I think we had a certain amount of time because there were other kids and it wasn't that they didn't want me to be happy and successful. It just, it got to be a lot for the family. I mean, we did not, I think some kids, especially when they live further away, move to the city and go to like, which schools go to like the professional children's school. I didn't do that. If I had done that, that might've been a different story, but I think because we maintained, you know, semi-normal home life and.

[2:35] Ben Rimalower: How long of a drive was it to your?

[2:35] Danielle Ferland: It was the train from Grand Central. It was about an hour 35. Not too short. Not too long either.

[2:44] Ben Rimalower: And you were, you were 13 when Sunday in the Park with George opened?

[2:49] Danielle Ferland: I might've been 12. I don't remember.

[2:52] Ben Rimalower: Around that age.

[2:52] Danielle Ferland: Around that age.

[2:53] Ben Rimalower: Just before that, I mean, in my experience of Stephen Sondheim, between Into the Woods, Sunday in the Park with George and the City Opera, A Little Night Music that you were Frederica in, which was so open for public television. To me, you are such like a, you know, Sondheim canon artist, but as a 12 year old, did Sondheim mean anything? Were you like a company head?

[3:17] Danielle Ferland: No, nothing. I wasn't. I mean, we listened to some stuff. My parents were definitely, we had a very varied music taste growing up, but my parents loved to see shows and they, their favorite show by all was Evita. They played constantly. And when I'm, when I was cast in Sunday and my mother found out who was in it, I thought, I mean, I remember looking back, she was younger than I am now. And she was like, "Oh, you got, you know," it was very exciting for her. But yeah, they listened to shows. They saw a bunch of stuff. I hadn't really seen much. I saw Annie and—

[3:51] Ben Rimalower: Had you ever done Annie?

[3:53] Danielle Ferland: No, I missed it. I remember hearing on Newsradio 88 when it was closing, like they're, I remember being in my parents' bedroom saying, "Oh, that show is closing." That was right before I even entered the business, I think.

[4:07] Ben Rimalower: But you were in the business. You were in the city. I mean, you were creating original roles in Sondheim shows. You weren't going to do like Annie at like the Delaware Summer Theater, like—

[4:17] Danielle Ferland: Oh, and who knows? If I hadn't been cast off Broadway in Sunday, I may have. I, the same summer that I did Sunday, I played Baby June in Gypsy at the Candlewood Playhouse. And I loved that as a dancer. I danced for many years. Tap was my forte. But I loved doing that. That was—

[4:35] Ben Rimalower: Who was Rose? Do you remember?

[4:39] Danielle Ferland: No, but the woman playing Louise was dating Tony Roberts. That's what I do remember.

[4:46] Ben Rimalower: Oh, wow.

[4:47] Danielle Ferland: For Tony Roberts. I remember him being at opening night and people saying, "Oh, it's Tony Roberts." And I was like, "Oh."

[4:53] Ben Rimalower: Okay. So, but you obviously got to know a lot about Sondheim being in Sunday, both at Playwrights and then onto Broadway. And I assume because you were a kid, you probably didn't have the same sense of the pressure of, was it going to go to Broadway and how are the reviews and all that kind of stuff?

[5:15] Danielle Ferland: No, I didn't. I also, even though I knew he was highly regarded because I heard, I didn't go home and then like research every Sondheim show either. I don't recall doing that. I mean, I know I listened to some other stuff, but I remember there being some amount of pressure. There was, just during the writing and the development of Sunday, there were a lot of changes. I mean, I actually only went in shortly before it closed and it was, I don't know, I remember there being a lot of kerfuffle surrounding that.

[5:48] Ben Rimalower: Have you read that amazing James Lapine book, Putting It Together?

[5:51] Danielle Ferland: Yes, that's part of it. I mean, it was really an interesting read because I remember a lot of this going on. You know, when there are people who are kind of, I wouldn't call it arguing, I would call it debating creatively. And it was, I had a great time. I mean, I loved being there.

[6:13] Danielle Ferland: I don't remember a tremendous amount about the rehearsal process. I remember, I have snippets. It was all at, you know, the studio downtown. Was it 890 Broadway? Was that? With the elevator, with the door, you know, I had to do the manual. Sorry. I mean, I love those studios. They bring back a lot of memories. The Michael Bennett studios you guys called.

[6:38] Ben Rimalower: Yes, right. Exactly. Oh my goodness. But yeah, I mean, I remember having a really good time. I loved doing it. And did you have a sense that it had won the Pulitzer and was the darling of the New York Times?

[6:51] Danielle Ferland: After, I remember everyone, like the big thing you heard was that it was a weird musical. It wasn't like other musicals. It's Sondheim. He's a genius. And that Act Two was different than Act One and Act Two underwent so many changes, so many different. I mean, look, all I knew growing up was that process. I didn't do a show. I did Gypsy, but I thought that was normal, you know, completely. And I think it is just some degree, you know, you do develop things, but there were significant changes in both shows, obviously. And I, what did you ask?

[7:28] Ben Rimalower: No, no, this is great. I mean, this is what I want from you. So, okay. But so you get one phone call saying we're going to bring back the original cast, but not Danielle, because the girl in the painting is really little and she's older now. I mean, I remember being disappointed, but I do recall, and I can't speak absolutely about that, that someone reached out to us to explain why.

[7:49] Danielle Ferland: Sure. And it may very well have been James. James called my house to talk to my mother about the job in general. Like he was so good with the younger people.

[7:59] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. That tracks with how he seems like he would be. So, but then there's another phone call about this new show. Is that the next, is that, tell me about your first awareness that there even is a thing called Into The Woods.

[8:10] Danielle Ferland: What I remember, and it may be again, if I'm, if memory serves, there was a three day, two or three day reading of a new musical. And it was just like an opening number. And Chip Zien played a prince.

[8:23] Ben Rimalower: Yes. Maybe he told you this.

[8:29] Danielle Ferland: Yeah. Yeah. He was there. He was a prince.

[8:35] Ben Rimalower: This is at Playwrights Horizons?

[8:35] Danielle Ferland: I think so. There was a longer workshop at Playwrights a bit later. It was like a two week. Mary Darcy played Cinderella and Betty Buckley was the witch.

[8:42] Ben Rimalower: Yes. I did that one as well.

[8:47] Danielle Ferland: Oh, Danielle. Okay. Like I, this is amazing because you're really making my dreams come true right now. Like what? You're making my dreams come true.

[8:53] Ben Rimalower: Oh really? Oh my God. Somebody else has literally said to me like, yeah, there were some readings or workshops, depends what you want to call it. And I'll say things like, yeah, I'll say things like, and Betty Buckley was the witch and they'll go, "I don't remember who was the witch then." And like, I mean, it's like, so for you to tell me, because they feel, I don't know, maybe they do remember and they just don't want to go. I mean, they're not saying people are—

[9:18] Danielle Ferland: No, no, no. But they'll talk about Betty being the witch in the other workshop later in 1987 or, you know, after San Diego. But because the way I'm understanding it is that there was a Playwrights Horizons reading, which you've just clarified for me, the very early reading.

[9:35] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[9:35] Danielle Ferland: And then there was a workshop for a couple of weeks with the people you described. Then there was the San Diego production, which I want to get into why you didn't do that, but that's a separate thing. But I know that they wanted you and then they got you back. There was another workshop after San Diego and then there was Broadway.

[9:55] Ben Rimalower: Correct. And so I, I mean, I would love every granular detail of anything you can tell me who was in them, who did what, how they went, what the songs were, who's any, I want everything. Starting from that first, you said possibly two or three day reading.

[10:12] Danielle Ferland: Yes. So I did the first two or three day reading. All I remember was the music. It was some version of the melody that we know.

[10:20] Ben Rimalower: Of the opening number.

[10:23] Danielle Ferland: And I don't remember it being Chip until Chip said it many years later. I had no idea. And I played Cinderella. No, I'm kidding. I played a little. It would not be funny for me. Yes. And then there was the two week workshop. I remember Mary Darcy being Cinderella. I remember Robert Sean Leonard was Jack.

[10:41] Danielle Ferland: Yes. And he was a very different, we were quite friendly. We, I've worked with him on The Good Wife in the past.

[10:46] Ben Rimalower: Oh right. Yeah.

[10:50] Danielle Ferland: And he was like, "Oh my God, you know, we all that stuff." And oh my God, it was like Christine Baranski, who was in the off Broadway Sunday was Yvonne, you know?

[11:04] Ben Rimalower: Right. Yes.

[11:07] Danielle Ferland: And then I worked with her on The Good Wife and we can reconnect it. It has these things bring people back. I know it's a different show, but anyway, Robert Sean Leonard was in it. This is the two week workshop and it was definitely Betty Buckley.

[11:11] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[11:11] Danielle Ferland: Yes. Now being young, I don't think I was privy to, I definitely wasn't privy to exactly what happened. Well, let's save that because that, I think that would have been later, right? It was later. So that happened. But go back, do you remember anyone from the reading other than Chip being a Prince?

[11:30] Danielle Ferland: No, I don't remember anything. Was Robert Sean Leonard in the reading?

[11:35] Danielle Ferland: He might've been, because I remember when he, I seem to recall when I did the two week workshop, which I think it was two weeks. He was, I remembered him. Yes. Like could Betty Buckley have been in the reading? I have no, I don't remember. It's quite possible, but I don't remember. Are you familiar? There's these demo tracks with like Maureen Moore and John Cameron Mitchell, like George Lee Andrews.

[11:57] Ben Rimalower: Oh really? Oh, interesting.

[12:05] Danielle Ferland: But you would remember if George Lee Andrews had been in the reading?

[12:10] Danielle Ferland: Probably, but maybe I remembered it then. And then, yeah. And then years later, I don't think so. I really don't think so because I did A Little Night Music when I was like 19 and you would think it was a couple of years later.

[12:20] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[12:20] Danielle Ferland: And Maureen Moore, same maybe, but George had a bigger presence. Maureen and I got on very well, but more for he, I was in more stuff with him. Yeah. I remember that. I don't remember anyone else. I wish. They might've just recorded demos because they sing several parts. She sings the witch and the baker's wife and whatever. But then like, cause there's this website Overture with like just OVR T-U-R that has a lot of information on weird stuff. Like the cast they list for the Playwrights workshop is Robert Sean Leonard, you, Mary Darcy as Cinderella, Bob Gunton as the narrator and the steward from Evita, Bob Gunton, who was.

[13:05] Danielle Ferland: Joy Franz, Nancy Opel and Janna Schneider as the stepsisters.

[13:11] Ben Rimalower: I remember Nancy Opel. I feel I remember Nancy Opel, but again, having worked with her.

[13:19] Danielle Ferland: Yeah, I mean, that sounds right.

[13:20] Ben Rimalower: And Howard McGillin and Patrick Quinn as the princes.

[13:25] Danielle Ferland: Yeah, I could. I think it was probably Howard McGillin. Again, I know him from a bunch of working on a bunch of different readings and things. So stuff like that blends together.

[13:35] Danielle Ferland: Like if it were a show, I would remember. Because it was like I did. You know, he was another one I've known for a long time and you can't quite remember where it started, you know?

[13:46] Ben Rimalower: Well, and so do you remember a lot of time passing between that reading and that workshop?

[13:55] Danielle Ferland: I don't think it was right away, but I don't think it was very long. Maybe because I think I might have been 14.

[14:04] Ben Rimalower: Right, because it hadn't gone to San Diego. Yes, this tracks because it was my sophomore year in high school when I did not go to San Diego. And the reason do you want me to go there yet or not?

[14:14] Danielle Ferland: Yeah, sure.

[14:15] Danielle Ferland: The reason is because at the time it was like a four-month commitment because it was developmental. It was difficult, you know, with the family. And then the other wrinkle was because I had done a few other things. I would have had to drop out of school. I would not have had enough credits to move into my junior year had I taken that time because of the structure of where I stood academically. And everything, those things all together, I was really disappointed, you know, because I also don't think we weren't, even though we had been in a Broadway, a Stevenson and Broadway show, we weren't, I don't think as well versed in the, you're giving up this tremendous chance of a future with this show.

[15:01] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[15:01] Danielle Ferland: You know, I guess we were worried about it, but I don't remember being worried enough that we would drop everything. I have a younger sister. She's six years younger than me. My mother was teaching like to uproot. I know a lot of people who did that. I know people who moved to LA with their kids all the time and do pilot season. We, it just wasn't really, I don't know, we weren't like a showbiz family. So it didn't really think, we didn't think let's just change everything, you know, I guess.

[15:28] Ben Rimalower: But I mean, that sounds like you have really good parents. I mean that they-

[15:31] Danielle Ferland: Oh, I do. I do. Well, and also they were game from the beginning.

[15:34] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[15:34] Danielle Ferland: Being in Connecticut, not being a showbiz family to have this dancing school teacher say, I've brought some kids in to meet agents. You want to do it? And they were like, well, okay. Like, you know, nobody, many, many people I know said to them, why are you, let her wait, wait till she's 18, you have a family. And they didn't-

[15:52] Ben Rimalower: They didn't make you wait. They let you did it, do it. And they took the train with you.

[15:56] Danielle Ferland: They found it exciting for sure, but-

[15:58] Ben Rimalower: But they also encouraged you to stay and do your junior year rather than falling a year behind in school and the gambit paid off.

[16:05] Danielle Ferland: I didn't want to fall a year behind either. I didn't, I didn't want to do that.

[16:08] Ben Rimalower: They must've instilled that in you, not to give your parents all the credit, but I mean, but it also paid off because it came to Broadway and they got the offer.

[16:16] Danielle Ferland: It's so funny, the visual imagery. I remember getting in the car with my mother after school and she was looking at me and she was smiling and she said, into the woods, going to Broadway. And she picked up her hand and we high-fived and she said, and they called and I high-fived her and it was really cute. And by the way, then I had to learn, I know things now and go-

[16:37] Ben Rimalower: Oh, okay. So this is what I wanted to ask you.

[16:40] Ben Rimalower: What do you remember material-wise from the workshop before San Diego?

[16:46] Danielle Ferland: I remember, I don't remember. I know things now being in the workshop.

[16:49] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[16:49] Danielle Ferland: I remember learning it to go in. I think it's pretty much the exact same. I don't think it changed, which others did like the Jack song changed significantly, Cinderella's did. And I remember thinking, I remember hearing my manager say, this is this, you have to do this. It's more of a, I think it sounds like more of a confirmation, but don't blow it. Because they saw, then I heard they were seeing a lot of people.

[17:18] Ben Rimalower: Oh, to go in as in for an audition.

[17:21] Danielle Ferland: Yeah. I don't, like what I'd heard is that they want you to learn it. Like I went to Paul Gemignani's house to learn it. Like, and Paul Ford was there, you know what I mean? And we went and that was sort of the understanding, but then they saw a lot of people. I know that just through the grapevine. And I remember my manager also saying, don't let that concern you. They do, they want to cover all their bases and they need understudies and don't, because I started to, you know, you get a little worried when you hear about that, especially when people being like, oh, I thought it was going to be you. I went in for it. Cause you know, there's a lot of out there. Don't, don't deny. Yeah. And then I got it. So I was relieved.

[17:58] Ben Rimalower: And then, I mean, were you very comfortable with Paul Gemignani and Paul Ford already from Sunday?

[18:03] Danielle Ferland: I was, because I didn't have any idea otherwise. It's like, there's something so lovely about ignorance is bliss. You know, I didn't have any of that. Again, I wasn't a showbiz kid. I wasn't surrounded by a lot of kids. I was often the only younger person in the cast. So people generally tend to tell, and I was also a pretty humble, grounded person. So I think people were like, oh, you're not like that. Your parents aren't like that. You just didn't come from that world.

[18:28] Danielle Ferland: So I didn't know enough to know, to be worried. I just went around and had a blast. Like I remember Sunday, we had so many amazing parties. I liked Kurt Knutson's son. He was my first kiss. His name was Josh. I'll never forget him. I remember going to the water club, like on the East river and walking around with him outside. And we had our arms length and I was in my Gunnysacks dress.

[18:53] Ben Rimalower: What's a Gunnysacks dress?

[18:58] Danielle Ferland: Oh my God. It's like Jessica McClintock. These dresses that were sort of popular and they were like sort of little house on the Prairie ish, but beautiful colors, like blue with like a little white, you know, like dressy dresses for 12 year olds, which we're now, you know, what it's very different today. But yeah, I really, I didn't know. Like I, as I got older and you realize that the reviews and everything starts to, you start to really be more aware of all that. It's like, oh yeah, there's just a lot more to it than one.

[19:29] Ben Rimalower: So, okay. But also on the workshop of Into the Woods, did you feel like this is a show or was there a sense of like, they're going to keep working on this? It's not like, did you have a sense of it not being there yet in your mind?

[19:39] Danielle Ferland: It always seemed in flux. There were so many, there were three little pigs and there, I don't remember specifically everything, but I remember a lot of other, I, and I hear, you know, after the fact you hear about them trying to narrow down the stories, there were two stories and then the common thread. I don't remember the baker and the wife though, I, from the workshop, but that doesn't mean they weren't there.

[20:06] Ben Rimalower: No, they were, well, according to this web, well, and I've heard this, it was a guy named Ray Gill, who I guess died.

[20:11] Danielle Ferland: Oh, I know Ray Gill. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's true. Everybody loved him. And then I guess Chip was really good friends with him too. And Joanna was the baker's wife.

[20:21] Ben Rimalower: She was, that's a name I haven't heard in so long, Ray Gill. Oh my God. Wow.

[20:28] Danielle Ferland: Yeah.

[20:28] Ben Rimalower: So, but like, I mean, having gone through Sending the Park with George in your young mind, were you like, oh, but Sondheim and Lapine, they're going to figure this out. This is going to be great.

[20:37] Danielle Ferland: I, I don't recall thinking that I just thought, oh, I hope this happens. It's great. I thought the material was good, but I, I figured eventually it would, something would happen with the show. I wasn't thinking it's a done deal. I, I mean, I, I didn't know at the time too, about workshops that fell apart. Like I assumed everything that was dropped went. You know what I mean? I think at the time.

[21:04] Ben Rimalower: Totally. Right. And also as a kid, were you tapped in with the Tony awards? So the, the, the fight between Sending the Park with George and La Cage a Fall for like, was that something on your radar?

[21:14] Danielle Ferland: People talked about it. They said they hoped that the two men in La Cage would cancel out and people would vote for Mandy. I remember hearing that. I remember watching, I didn't go to the Tonys. I don't know why. Well, we weren't in it because it was recorded because of the pop-ups. So that, that, that number was pre-recorded?

[21:32] Ben Rimalower: Correct.

[21:32] Danielle Ferland: And I remember being in Connecticut and watching it and it was huge because I hadn't really, I mean, cause I have, do you recall this number from the Tony? It's, isn't it? It's Sunday, isn't it?

[21:46] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[21:46] Danielle Ferland: But there's, but at the end, there's a really amazing closeup of me when he takes off my glasses.

[21:53] Ben Rimalower: Yes. Yes. It's like, I was like, you know, I just loved that because.

[21:58] Danielle Ferland: Yeah. It was a commercial, but I hadn't been in like a TV show yet.

[22:03] Ben Rimalower: How'd you, before you did Radio Days?

[22:08] Danielle Ferland: Yes. And I have a good story about that too. I don't know if you want to hear it.

[22:08] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Tell me.

[22:10] Danielle Ferland: Well, it actually did change the course of the show because I wore glasses. Like if they had cast a child who did not wear glasses, I don't think that would have been written.

[22:16] Ben Rimalower: Hilarious.

[22:17] Danielle Ferland: I mean, you know how often I go, I want my glasses.

[22:27] Ben Rimalower: Yes, exactly. Like that's, what's funny about it. I remember going to the I-Man on the Upper West Side to get the, and I still have the glasses.

[22:30] Danielle Ferland: Oh wow.

[22:30] Danielle Ferland: And they're like little, like thick frame, like little on the round with the wire.

[22:36] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Very cool.

[22:44] Danielle Ferland: Oh, I love that. Well, that's amazing. That's very cool. I'm jumping all over the place. Sorry.

[22:49] Ben Rimalower: Okay. So no, you're wonderful. This is, this is such a dream. So they go to San Diego, then they come back, they have you go in, everybody's going in, but you get the offer. And then what, do you remember when you found out there was going to be this workshop prior to the Broadway?

[23:00] Danielle Ferland: Yes. But it, but they said, this is the, you're in it. And this is the broad, the workshop. What happens is don't remember the length of time we're going in. We do a staged reading presentation of the show with three different endings. Yes. It's had a big ABC and then they did that. And then they went back and worked for a month and then rehearsal started for, it was four weeks after the end of the workshop.

[23:28] Ben Rimalower: Do you remember how many, how much rehearsal there was for those three stage readings?

[23:35] Danielle Ferland: Maybe, maybe it was a total of 10 days, like a week or 10 days because it was on book and it was at play at 890 at Michael Bennett Studios. And that was the entire Broadway cast, except Betty Buckley was the witch instead of Bernadette.

[23:47] Ben Rimalower: Is that right? Wasn't it Burke Moses was one of the princes, I think.

[23:52] Danielle Ferland: Oh, maybe this is great. There's like no information about this. I don't know exactly why. I think it was Bob Westenberg and Burke Moses. And I think he got another, something happened. I don't know. I just remember that because I remember knowing Burke Moses after that and being like, Oh, you were supposed to be in it. I don't, I feel I may be incorrect. You should know. This is, this is amazing.

[24:11] Ben Rimalower: That's the first time I've even heard his name brought up. So I'm thrilled to have that. But other than that, it was the Broadway cast minus Bernadette with Betty Buckley as the witch.

[24:20] Danielle Ferland: Correct.

[24:20] Ben Rimalower: And so like, one of the things that's been interesting to me is not knowing what happened where Betty Buckley, like you, Betty did the workshop at Playwrights Horizons, did not go to San Diego and then did this workshop. I don't, and I know that also in a similar way, the woman that did Little Red Riding Hood in San Diego, Luann Ponds, wound up being a replacement on Broadway.

[24:49] Danielle Ferland: Yes. And I really, we hung out a couple of times. I really liked her.

[24:54] Ben Rimalower: Well, and she, and Ellen Foley did the witch at, in the old Globe and then was later a replacement witch on Broadway. But, but Betty, I don't know the reason that she didn't go to San Diego, but I assume that it's different than the reason she didn't go to Broadway. So maybe it was a schedule or whatever, but what can, what do you remember about that workshop process?

[25:20] Danielle Ferland: I remember being exhausted, feeling like, wow, cause I had not played a role like that in a high profile show. I remember at the end of the reading series being like, wow, but it was like the kind of feeling where you worked really hard and you were like really happy about it, you know?

[25:38] Ben Rimalower: Differently than the workshop the year before?

[25:44] Danielle Ferland: It just felt, because it was a complete show. The workshop the year before, I don't feel like was a full show. I don't think it was like complete.

[25:50] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[25:50] Danielle Ferland: There was a lot of actual, I don't know if there was an actual, I have no idea. I just don't, it just was different. This was fully staged too. I don't think that was fully staged. I don't think, but yeah, I mean, it was pretty.

[26:00] Ben Rimalower: Did it feel like a blueprint of what you wound up doing on Broadway?

[26:06] Danielle Ferland: Yes.

[26:08] Danielle Ferland: Big question was, what's going to happen at the end? Like, what do we know about the mysterious man? That was the larger, will the baker's wife die? Because she didn't die in one of the versions. Now, I don't, I thought, I think Bernadette is amazing. And I remember thinking Betty was amazing. She was very, very, I remember it being very, very dark. That's what I remember. By comparison, Bernadette had her, but I think that's what was, she had all these colors, which was also amazing. But I remember, because there were a couple things surrounding this, I remember before we went back in for rehearsals for the full Broadway, there was some kind of partial read through or sing through. And it was at someone's apartment.

And I don't remember who. And I walked in, my mother was with me and Bernadette was there. And I was like, and someone said to me, she's the witch now. And I was like, oh, like I had no idea. I also remember, because we almost got in an accident on the way home, we were fine. But I, you know, there's just a couple things that stand out about that. I don't know whose apartment it was. It was really nice and really big. I don't think it was Stephen's. But I remember that moment of someone saying, I was like, why is Bernadette here? Like, I had no idea. And that was definitely between the two. Paul Ford said something like that, too. But other people had forgotten that that happened. But that Paul Ford backs you up on that.

And so far, I think you definitely win the award for the best memory in the cast. Well, you know, I mean, I was, I don't know, I was young. Well, so and you, Dallas, so you obviously you knew Bernadette already from Sundays. But I'm fascinated by this workshop that went sort of almost straight in to rehearsals after you had were all three endings. Was it like a Mystery of Edwin Drew thing where you did one ending, one ending, one ending? Or did you do the whole show three times?

[28:11] Danielle Ferland: The whole show three times.

[28:13] Ben Rimalower: On three different days, as you recall?

[28:15] Danielle Ferland: So yeah, I think it was three different days. I don't. I don't. Yeah, we didn't say, okay, go back 10 pages and do the end. You know, right. So I don't think so. I believe it was three different shows.

[28:28] Ben Rimalower: And do you remember, like, feeling by the third one that, I mean, that's starting to be a little bit like, like you're having, you know, that's, I imagine the first one, it's still all the nerves of like a stage reading presentation. But by the third one, you're kind of like in the hang of it, at least until the ending. I don't think you were off book yet, but it must have been getting in your bones a little bit.

[28:51] Danielle Ferland: Definitely. Definitely. I mean, it felt good. Like I said, it felt very cathartic. I just, I don't know why I remember that so well, feeling like completely exhausted.

[29:00] Ben Rimalower: Well, even if it's three separate days, it would still, I think that would, you know, you remember it being obvious from how they, how it went each day, which was the best choice of the three possible endings?

[29:14] Danielle Ferland: I don't, because I don't even think I could be wrong, but what they ended up with was exactly one of them. I think they might've tweaked whatever it ended up being.

[29:26] Ben Rimalower: Interesting.

[29:27] Danielle Ferland: It was always about, I remember the big thing being like, do we know if that is the narrator or the baby? Like that was the big, and in one, they don't address it at all. Like it's just, like not even hinting.

[29:41] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Is it hinted? I don't think of it as-

[29:45] Danielle Ferland: Yeah, I remember. Doesn't he say, I always cried when you held me. Doesn't he say that in the Broadway?

[29:50] Ben Rimalower: Oh, maybe so. And I just don't remember.

[29:52] Danielle Ferland: You think I would remember having done the show again. I don't remember.

[29:57] Ben Rimalower: That's fascinating. I think-

[30:01] Danielle Ferland: Oh my gosh. Can you imagine? People are probably going to be like, what is wrong? Like, I don't really remember. I feel that happened because I loved that. Like I-

[30:10] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[30:11] Danielle Ferland: Just getting that one line. So maybe I'm imagining, and that's what I wanted, but-

[30:15] Ben Rimalower: I wonder if I can Google this.

[30:16] Danielle Ferland: I feel like it was obvious that it was-

[30:19] Ben Rimalower: I don't think I knew that the narrator was the baby until that revival in Central Park, where it was like really, like they made that the whole point of it. The first thing that came up is from an interview with Eric Lieberman, who-

[30:33] Danielle Ferland: Oh my goodness.

[30:34] Ben Rimalower: Oh, was he the baker opposite you as the baker's wife?

[30:36] Danielle Ferland: Yeah.

[30:37] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. And he says, Denny, where there's a lot about you, of course, in this interview. We love Eric Lieberman. Wait, where's the thing? Cry. Yeah. Danielle shared something wonderful, which was cut from the original. The narrator says to the baker, I always cried when you held me in tequila.

[30:56] Danielle Ferland: Maybe that wasn't it.

[30:58] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[30:58] Danielle Ferland: Maybe you didn't do it.

[31:00] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. But that is a great line.

[31:02] Danielle Ferland: God, that's so funny that I feel like, why do I remember that happening forever? Because definitely one of the versions had that. And then maybe, so it wasn't even cut. It was like part of that process. So he didn't say it.

[31:18] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[31:21] Danielle Ferland: Because I think they did want to leave it as a question mark. And I think a lot of people assumed it, but that's, look, I love to make up my own mind. I don't want anybody smacking me over the head with anything. I love subtlety and like, I think that's great. That's fantastic.

[31:39] Ben Rimalower: You want to, so, fascinating.

[31:44] Danielle Ferland: And do you remember being told, was there a lot of talking between the presentations and then the start of rehearsals about which way things were going? For example, when you walked into that house and you saw Bernadette, had somebody already told you that Betty was out or was that the first you realized?

[32:07] Danielle Ferland: No, no. I walked into the house and someone said, I said, what is Bernadette? I thought, oh, what is she doing here? And someone said, she's the witch now. And I was like, oh, that was the first I'd heard of it. That was, I had no idea. I was also not in the loop, you know, I wasn't, who's going to call me up and tell me anything.

[32:23] Ben Rimalower: Right. Yeah. Yeah.

[32:25] Danielle Ferland: What do I care? You know what I mean?

[32:26] Ben Rimalower: Lauren Mitchell and Kay McClelland weren't gossiping with you. So then you start Broadway rehearsals and it's a version of the script that you had done in those presentations with something cobbled together for an ending.

[32:39] Danielle Ferland: Right.

[32:43] Ben Rimalower: And as you said that I Know Things Now was pretty much born in its final form.

[32:49] Danielle Ferland: So that was, I feel that I feel that way. I don't remember having to relearn anything. But so one thing that a lot of people have talked about in terms of songs that were cut and stuff is the Second Midnight, the long version of Second Midnight, which like again, those demos with Maureen Moore and George Lee Andrews, I'll send them to you if you don't have them because it's great to hear that. It's great to hear that song.

[33:13] Danielle Ferland: So why does every mother fuss and bother? Why does every other child have a father? What did I do wrong? I remember that. And I, you know what I remember? I didn't have anything to do. And I hated it because I don't, my mother's not in the show and they never talk about my father. Like for Jack, it was present and his mother's in the show. So that was a thing. Cinderella's got her mother. We've got the whole childless baker and wife. We've got, you know, the princes, they weren't sort of a part of that. So I was in the number, sort of like singing to no one. I felt very like I was so, no one liked, it had so many different versions. Nobody loved it. But it was like the thing they kept trying to make work because I feel that they had a, they thought it had a place in terms of talking about the relationships, which is valid. But I remember being very happy it was cut. And then Tom Aldridge had shirts made up that said second midnight gone, which is just because of the show.

[34:10] Ben Rimalower: That's funny. Second midnight gone.

[34:15] Danielle Ferland: But yeah, I was like, woo. Cause I didn't have anybody. I was like, why am I in this? You know, it was like, so interesting. So interesting. Right. Because I, you know, it's, it sounds so good. And it has that verse that people put into children that Sondheim put into children will listen for Barbra Streisand to have a more like sing songy version of the song. And now other people sing it like that sometimes. And it's, and I sometimes feel like the show ends like with three ballads in a row from no more to no one is alone to children will listen. And so then when I was in working on this podcast and listening to these cut songs, second midnight, I've been thinking like, Oh wow. Like should just children will listen really belong in some form here more than in the end.

Like, you know, or, you know, or the another thing is like on the cast recording on your original cast recording, Bernadette sings that longer version of lament that has more of children will listen in it. And then that's not really in the show. I didn't. And I remember I used to, when I was young, watch the video and be like, why is she singing the short, shortened version? But do you remember those cuts?

[35:35] Danielle Ferland: No, I don't remember that. I mean, that could have been longer. I remember in act two, right. It's when Rapunzel dies. Right. Yeah. It's rings the bell. I honestly, but I don't.

[35:49] Danielle Ferland: I don't. Yeah. I had a scene that was cut. It was what was that? The granny death scene. I think I go to the, her house and she's dead. Granny. I think. Am I crazy? Like it could be. But do we see you get eaten by the wolf in that?

[36:12] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, but this is after this is during act two, like her house is just.

[36:16] Danielle Ferland: Oh, go when she's dead from the giant. You know, I think I don't remember. Right. She doesn't die from the wolf. I remember something where there was a destroyed and they had to tighten up back to it just had to be done because it wasn't. I know that. And I don't remember exactly why or where it was, but I think it was when we. When I said my house was destroyed and I come in with the suitcase, we leave. And I think it's when they're in the woods together. She's with the baker and his wife.

[36:41] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. And granny's house.

[36:50] Danielle Ferland: Yes. Yeah. I mean, the other thing Chip told me was that when Bernadette was cast, that he was told that he was going to lose material because they had to write more for Bernadette. And that there was.

[37:03] Ben Rimalower: It doesn't surprise me just because.

[37:08] Danielle Ferland: Yeah. Did he lose material? I don't even know. He referenced the scene. Now I'm going to forget it, but it was. It wasn't that scene, so that's interesting, though, that might have been part of the same cut.

[37:18] Ben Rimalower: It was part of the same. I mean, I remember. Thinking at the time, oh, there you need to cut this to tighten up and then stuff's getting added for Bernadette. But I also remember it's because she's the star like I, I, you know, you're going to be upset about whatever. I mean, I don't remember being upset. I just remember knowing that. Had there not been a sense when Betty was in it that, oh, she's the star? No, she was. But this is we hadn't fully realized the show. I mean, so once they got it on its feet and there was more stuff written, I think they realized stuff had to be cut. I was never told stuff of yours is going to be cut because it's specifically Bernadette. I just thought she's the lead in the show.

I remember when stuff was added or I don't even remember what I was. I remember acknowledging in my head, oh, well, that's that's what happens like just because they say they need to shorten it up doesn't mean something won't be added. You know, of course, but but it's also this to further the story.

[38:21] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, absolutely. Cut something. But if there's something else that they discover later on works, they're going to put it in.

[38:27] Danielle Ferland: Yes, but but so in your memory, there was not a different sense of the witch being the star when Bernadette was there than before Bernadette. It's so hard to determine that only because we were in a full like my memory of Bernadette was all through tech. And, you know, with Betty, it was only it was preliminary. You know, we didn't get to a point where it was fully realized. Yeah, she definitely was known as the star. I mean, I felt she was I knew Bernadette better and I knew of her more, but there was a sense that she was the star of the show. I mean, whereas I mean, I know we're not that far apart in age, like I even at that time, I was aware of Betty from Cats and from It Is Enough. So I remember that.

[39:12] Danielle Ferland: I don't think there was any sort of like, oh, you know, where a stuff wouldn't have gotten cut if Betty was in it. You know, I think I just remember during the process stuff happening to go, you know what I mean? Like for, cause I don't think that was, that was cut in previews. Some of that stuff was cut during pre, like really interesting. Oh yeah. I remember the granny scene was cut early and previews were long. I think they delayed opening like a week. Previews were like six weeks or something. It was ridiculous. I mean, in my mind we're all like, Oh, this is tiring. You know?

[39:40] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Yeah. Then how about like once the show was open? And I mean, did you have a sense, like the way I asked about Sunday as a kid, did it come into your bandwidth or to your radar that the show being sort of pitted against Phantom of the Opera as the, you know, vying for the Tonys?

[40:01] Danielle Ferland: At the time of the Tonys, I absolutely acknowledged that. And I felt like how does a show at the time win best book and best score and not win best musical, but the show that wins best lighting and best costumes wins best musical. I didn't get that. I was like annoyed at the time. Yeah. But we, I also had heard, you know, this is amazing Sondheim. This is his first even semi like commercial thing. It just was so appealing to so many people. Yeah. Like a big, I remember knowing that people were really excited about it. Like that was very exciting. You felt like you were in a hit in a, in a, yeah, something that people loved, like really, really loved. Oh.

[40:40] Danielle Ferland: And also, you know, the whole thing about the wolf's costume being, uh, Oh yeah. Um, it was beyond, uh, and they were trying to make him as anatomically correct as possible. I mean, they had to significantly adjust his genitalia because it was, you know, a huge and people were like shocked by it, apparently including me. Cause I remember the first time I saw it, I was like, like, and it was a combination of, they had to tone it down. And I remember James joking, saying, Oh, the little old ladies in the front were having a heart attack. You know, it was really like beyond, I wish there were a picture of that somewhere. That would be amazing. Yeah. We'll have to get the, um, the costume and hold word archives. Um, what do you, um, this was a show. I mean, Ben Wright was about your age, wasn't he? Yes.

[41:36] Danielle Ferland: And I worked with him at a show at playwrights on a show at playwrights when I was a freshman in high school called paradise. It was written by George C. Wolf and Ted, no, Ted Sperling was the musical director. David Loud was the, um, I can't remember who directed it, but it was myself. And then Charlene Woodard. Wow. Tommy Hollis. I can't remember who played my mother. My father was Jerry Lanning, but then he had some health issue or something. And Steve Vinovich took over. Now he was the, um, original, uh, Patrick and Mame Jerry Lanning, right? Yeah. Um, okay. Here's paradise, uh, 14 performances in 1985 at playwrights horizons. 14 performances.

[42:39] Ben Rimalower: That is totally wrong. We ran like Ed Pappas directed.

[42:42] Danielle Ferland: Ed Pappas directed. Yes. Yes. Not Ted. Yeah. George Wolf wrote the book and lyrics music by Robert Forrest. David Loud was the musical director. Yes, he was because I'm confused with Ted Sperling. That's so true. You yeah. Jerry Lanning, Charlene Woodard, Ben Wright, Tommy Hollis, Janice Lind. Janice Lind. Yes. Interesting. Um, it was Ben Wright. Uh, so that was nice that you had like a friend. Had he been in that workshop? I assume then in the, in the summer.

[43:09] Danielle Ferland: Oh, that was, um, oh, in the summer. Yeah. Yeah. The one, the two week one before. And so, uh, so you weren't the only young person cause Kim Crosby was an adult, right? She was not in the, yeah. And Ben was, um, he was starting college though when we were two years older. So you were the baby still. Yeah, for sure. Um, but you were older than you'd been in Sunday. What do you remember about that run once it was sort of just an ongoing, you know, yeah. Oh, um, I mean, it was definitely a lot. I look back at what I did and you know, the trains were so crazy back then. They broke down every day.

[44:00] Danielle Ferland: I was a junior and I went in. So my high school made some sort of exceptions in terms of the amount of credit, like extra elective credit. So I took all my core classes and I had a meeting with like a guidance counselor. And then I would get on the train pretty much at like three 30 or four, because we didn't want to risk it. And I would get into the city, then do my homework, um, at usually a place. My favorite place was Tony Roma's a place for ribs. There's, um, yeah.

[44:27] Ben Rimalower: And then you took the train by yourself at that point?

[44:30] Danielle Ferland: I did. But then at night we had an arrangement with Barbara, Barbara Brennan and I commuted together. Sometimes we, um, cause she was in Westport. So we drive home together. Her husband, the cutest couple, Denny Spence used to have his shoes specially made because these feet were so small. They were the sweetest. Um, and my mom, you know, my parents wanted to know that Barbara, we would go to grand central together at night, but then I would get on the train by myself. I always sat in the front of the train with the techies from all the shows. That's where. Yeah. So, okay. This great run, big hit. You get the inflatable giant slag outside the theater. You're yeah. What I've heard has gone missing. Is this true?

[45:07] Danielle Ferland: Isn't it true that they can't find it? Oh, maybe so. Cause they used it for the revival. I think there's an article in the times you should look it up. I think that they can't find it. And then it's like a huge, and people are like, what, how do you lose though? There were two, I think. But I can't remember. I think it's hilarious. Yeah. That's pretty funny. How do you, how do you lose that? Um, yeah, I was, I mean, it was a lot, the run, but I enjoyed myself. I remember the summer. I didn't, again, I would not have graduated and I left after like a year and a half. I didn't leave right away. Yeah. I was, it only, it ran for two years. I left like seven months before it closed. And then we came back and did the PBS in the spring.

[45:50] Ben Rimalower: So that you had to come back after you'd left to film it.

[45:53] Danielle Ferland: Yeah. And the people in the current cast had to agree, you know, you can't just people cause they wanted to record the, the week of live shows. Yeah. So do you remember any of the replacements that came in while you were still in it? Felicia Rashad, Nancy Dussault.

[46:11] Danielle Ferland: Felicia was, I didn't work with Nancy. Um, Felicia was just a wonderful person, completely different character, but I loved every bit of her. She came to my closing performance. Oh yeah. I must've worked with somebody else because she wasn't in the show when I left came back. And I said, why are you here? She said, I'm here for you. I just loved her. I thought she was just, and Bernadette don't even, I mean, she's beyond, I talk about her when I do masterclasses about how the true, the true theater star who is always a million, gives a million percent, never, never witnessed anything less than giving everything her all respect, professionalism, just everything about her was like the classiest day.

[46:59] Danielle Ferland: And you know, you, you reflect on it. I reflect on it as I get older because just from being young, like what my perception of her then and how, what I remember about her and how she dealt with everyone and just her personality, like everything was just like, I can't, it was perfection. I mean, really, really just amazing.

[47:16] Ben Rimalower: How did she deal with everyone? What do you mean?

[47:18] Danielle Ferland: I felt people weren't, no, she wasn't the kind of person who people skip naked around the dressing room. You know what I mean? She was, she had a, like, she, she was very, I, she wasn't, I don't know how to say this. She might've been very close to some other people. I was a younger person. I felt she was, she hung out. I mean, we went out to lunch sometimes in like groups, but I don't think, I think she was just always professional and very wonderful and sweet, but I don't know if she, you know, cause I could, I could be lying. I have no idea. Maybe she did go out to bars with other people. Cause I was only, I just mean like she was so by comparison, I don't know why I'm saying that. Like I've definitely worked with big names. Yeah.

[48:06] Ben Rimalower: And sometimes they are very distant, but then I've also worked with just people who do a lot of theater who are really like balls to the wall, who are buddies with everybody. So I guess that's what I'm sort of comparing to. She was which, which of those things?

[48:19] Danielle Ferland: She was very friendly, but I felt very professional and did, she was there to do her job and do it and always give a million, like I said, a million percent. I don't know how else to describe it. She was just.

[48:32] Ben Rimalower: And not skipping naked around the dressing room though.

[48:34] Danielle Ferland: No, exactly. That's what I mean. I mean, we weren't in the same, I have no, several people have done that. Not me. And being like, you know, all the time. I just, you know, it's a different kind of, I don't know. She was like a lady, you know, Gordon Murray was in it. Yeah. Baker's wife. Yeah.

[48:55] Danielle Ferland: Kay McClellan played the baker's wife for a bit. Yeah. She and Lauren Mitchell both covered. I think she ended up doing it more. I don't exactly know why. Yeah.

[49:08] Ben Rimalower: Could what, it was the witch that came after her. If you weren't there for Nancy do so maybe it was Betsy Joslyn.

[49:15] Danielle Ferland: Oh, it was Betsy before. Right. She did it before they went. I love that. She was amazing. Yeah. You knew her from Sunday in the park. Oh, but hilarious. Just as a person, she was just like, I loved her. I loved everybody. Merle was like, Oh my God. Talk to me about Merle. Cause I mean.

[49:31] Danielle Ferland: Oh my God. She, her dressing room was right next to mine. She was like, she's just like Ely, you know, because she went and spent time. I don't know. And she was just like this little funny, hilarious. Like I remember a party where she was like dancing and she was like, you know, like she was like a, I don't know, like this little spirit. She was amazing. She always made me feel everybody was so great. Joanna, like they were just so, she was so loving and so giving as a person, as a performer. Yeah. And totally professional when she was working. But again, everybody in that show, I don't know one, I don't, in my perception, I don't know one person who wasn't always there to work and discuss, like just really committed to everything. I don't, I can't say that about everything I've done since then. That's for sure. But.

[50:21] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. But do you think that you took that for granted at the time? Cause you assumed everything was like that.

[50:25] Danielle Ferland: I absolutely did.

[50:30] Ben Rimalower: I mean, do you, I wonder if you have this sense now having done, I think maybe we talked about this last week, but have now that, especially now that you did that other production later on where you play or two other productions where you played the baker's wife, that this is a show that feels so seminal to so many people just from having been fans of it or having done some, you know, whether they did it in their high school or their college, or community theater or regional production or a revival, that sense that you actually are the one, not only who created the role, although you certainly did create the role, but also that because of that American Playhouse video, that every inch of your performance.

I mean, I often think within, you know, with other musicals, people sometimes have the original cast recording in their mind as a fan, you know, is hanging a shadow over future casting or productions, but with Into the Woods, it's more than the cast recording. It's every single moment. So many of us grew up, you know, memorizing all your performances, just knowing every second how, you know, Joanna Gleeson saying, I pulled it from Maiden in a Tower. It's like, how does anyone playing the baker's wife escape that? Like, you know, right.

[51:45] Danielle Ferland: I don't know, because that was tough. Let me tell you. I was like, I have to accept that I'm just not going to be as good. Like I might, I'll be me. I'll be funny, but I won't be asked. I mean, it's just, you can't. She was the blueprint. You know, you can't. I don't know. I loved it. I loved singing Moments in the Woods. I have to tell you, like I remember every second of every night just sitting there and taking my hair down. I loved, I loved that song is like a delicious bath. It's like gorgeous. And when you're in it, it's like, Oh, it was just.

[52:17] Danielle Ferland: I'm going to talk to Joanna later today, actually. I've heard that she had a lot of input and feedback in the writing of that material. And I think you can tell it feels like a song written for an actor that just, you know, more than songs tend to, even Sondheim songs, that the beats of that song just feel so human and clear.

[52:44] Ben Rimalower: Are there other things that you came to appreciate differently about the show over the years?

[52:51] Danielle Ferland: Definitely. I mean, the whole arc of, you know, children and being able to have children, what that means, not being able to have children, what people, the lengths people go to for their families. Also, just the whole message of be careful what you wish for, you know, and after happily ever after, it completely changes. And it just morphs, you know, because you don't under, there's just things you don't know or understand yet, just because you are younger, or that you haven't lived. So just, and you know, I don't stop and think, oh, well, this has changed, you know, listening to it again, or being in again, that's when it happens when you're suddenly like, oh, that's so fascinating. And you don't hit you emotionally in some instances.

[53:35] Ben Rimalower: Now, I know you haven't seen the current revival yet. But have you seen other productions?

[53:41] Danielle Ferland: Many, many productions, like High School, College, you know, just a lot. I saw, I didn't see the park. I don't know why. Obviously, I saw the revival.

[53:50] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[53:52] Danielle Ferland: I saw the movie.

[53:53] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, there's a cool video because, you know, the park was based on a version they did in the Regent's Park in London.

[53:59] Danielle Ferland: Yeah.

[54:01] Ben Rimalower: That one exists on video also. And that's just a very interesting, because they did that steampunk, you know, it was just a different take. Did you see the one they did at the Laura Pels, where it was like a fiasco?

[54:14] Danielle Ferland: Oh, a fiasco? Yes, I did.

[54:16] Ben Rimalower: That was very cool.

[54:17] Danielle Ferland: That was amazing. I loved it. Yeah, yeah.

[54:21] Ben Rimalower: And your kids are both teenagers, is that right?

[54:24] Danielle Ferland: I have a 12 year old and a 16 year old.

[54:27] Ben Rimalower: And I'm sure they've seen the video of you as Little Red. I mean, has that, are they, do they do theater?

[54:35] Danielle Ferland: They, you know, they both have done a little. They're not as into it as I am. My younger one does, has a really great voice. I mean, he's singing, he doesn't really like to sing alone. But they, you know, they, like many children of actors are like, oh, okay, no biggie. You know, they don't, you know what I mean? It doesn't affect them as much in that way. I mean, I know they're proud and impressed, but it's not like fans, you know, because it shouldn't be, you know.

[55:04] Ben Rimalower: When other kids who are theater fans find out who their mom is, they probably are very impressed.

[55:11] Danielle Ferland: Yeah, it's true. And my younger one who is a little like, he just has a different spirit. He's very enthusiastic. So he said something to me a while ago, like, my friend told me blah, blah, blah. I'm like, yeah, like you know I was in that. Like, don't you? Well, I didn't remember. I'm like, well, why not? And then that happened in your lifetime. Like, it happened a year ago. I don't remember what it was. I was like, yeah, because I looked like he was telling me, but I was shocked that he didn't remember. Yeah, it's just really funny. He's like, I don't remember that. I was like, okay, it's fine. Yeah, he's, they're hilarious. They're great boys.

[55:49] Ben Rimalower: Well, you're hilarious. This is so, I really can't tell you how grateful I am to talk to you. It's like,

[55:54] Danielle Ferland: It's been fantastic.

[55:55] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I probably will have to email you and ask you other questions because I'm sure.

[56:00] Danielle Ferland: Absolutely. You won't put in anything embarrassing. I don't know. I wish I had other funny stories. You know, if you want to know anything else, I can't really. But yes, please feel free.

[56:09] Ben Rimalower: Oh, yeah. I mean, you've been incredible. You've been so, so candid and informative. I mean, and I really appreciate it. And yeah, but of course, if there is anything else you want to share, I'd love to hear it.

[56:21] Danielle Ferland: No, just one thing I remember. Just in reference to the commute was like anytime because the set would break a lot, like not a lot, but enough. Yeah.

[56:32] Danielle Ferland: Dick Cavett was the narrator. He'd go out and do stand up.

[56:35] Ben Rimalower: Oh, right. Yeah.

[56:36] Danielle Ferland: And I remember thinking, I'm not gonna make the train because it was bad. I mean, it was, the train was 1120 out of Grand Central and the show was like 250. I mean, that's cutting it close with clothing. I usually, I usually walked because it was quicker than going down into the shuttle. It was just faster. But yeah, that and I don't know.

[57:03] Ben Rimalower: One thing that I've learned in these conversations that wasn't clear to me before, you know, there have been all these amazing Sondheim sort of tribute concerts over the years. I mean, especially in recent years, because, you know, he's such a God to all of us. But even back in the day, you know, and this Into the Woods video has that energy about it. And I didn't understand until recently that it was almost two years after you'd opened and it really, really were these stars coming back to your hit show that you'd left. So I think that informs it in a way that feels that kind of rock star energy that I think it's, I think people feel that watching the video without necessarily knowing why, because one would assume it was just kind of during the run.

[57:53] Danielle Ferland: Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. Because we opened in November, I think.

[57:58] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[57:59] Danielle Ferland: May or June.

[58:00] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, of 89.

[58:02] Danielle Ferland: Yeah.

[58:03] Ben Rimalower: So it was a year and a half, a year and a half. Exactly. Yeah.

[58:08] Ben Rimalower: Do you remember changes made for that filming? Anything that affected you?

[58:15] Danielle Ferland: I don't remember. I do remember we recorded the shows and then they do pickups of like things like the tower and during the day. So we were working a lot. I don't remember specifically. I just remember it was a lot and I loved it, but I was really happy.

[58:33] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I mean I think the other thing compared to the Sunday in the Park video is that James Lapine directed it for the screen. And I think that that pays off that in a way that it's, it feels like that it couldn't be captured any better than that video is, as opposed to Sunday in the Park where it's just kind of like a video of a play, you know.

[58:57] Danielle Ferland: Right. It's beautifully done. It's like a hybrid between theater and film. Like it's, but it still stays true to the stage production. It's not because sometimes you see things and you're like, oh, this isn't really.

[59:07] Ben Rimalower: No, it's not like ridiculous close ups of people's feet or whatever.

[59:10] Danielle Ferland: Exactly. That's why I think it works so well and it's so effective.

[59:14] Ben Rimalower: Well, I'm sure you'll continue to have new fans for decades because of that. It's such a timeless.

[59:22] Danielle Ferland: I know it's so amazing. It's really nice that it has that. It's just with everyone you meet who are affected in that way it's like it never ceases to amaze me.

[59:32] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[59:33] Danielle Ferland: You're a rock star for nerds.

[59:37] Danielle Ferland: I remember once being at the do I used to go to the duplex every Thursday, when I was in college, to see this particular Jay Bradley and Bill Morgan, and it was amazing we would always go they would sing the same songs and I would always saying, you know, like some Elton John or something and this guy came up to me and was like, talking about me and my upbringing, you know, Connecticut and I remember him walking away and I was with my friend Patty and she's like what I said I just don't like he knows that about me like, and I wasn't trying to be mean I was just like, that's what he does with his time, like, interesting people out there, and I really need it I'm like, that's like a fan, and I was like, huh, you know because things like that don't happen a lot.

[1:00:18] Ben Rimalower: Like, oh you have a brother and a sister right and I was like, yeah, you know it was just fascinating to me.

[1:00:33] Danielle Ferland: Yeah. Well, but you are interesting I mean I think part of what made you and it's also true of a lot of the people in the original cast of into the woods but but certainly you and it's noteworthy especially because you were a child actor, you know, is that there was, there was such a person there. You know, there was nothing automaton about you. Everybody yeah attitude and, you know, it's just and it's I mean I think that's why you are such a compelling force in those things you know, and, and the other stuff you did and you know it's especially striking for a child actor whether it's in the in radio days radio for daddy music that you know it doesn't feel like just a cute kid it feels like somebody that like gets it, you know, yeah.

[1:01:14] Danielle Ferland: Yeah, I suppose. It's true. And by the way, can you believe that Kim and Bob are married, isn't that hilarious. So did that happen after into the woods.

[1:01:24] Ben Rimalower: No, I remember, I, if I'm, I don't think I'm making it up I remember her coming into our dressing room being like he took I think their first date was the Drama Desk Awards, I think, okay don't, but I remember her saying, think Bob just asked me out, like I really really remember this and I'm like did you make that up, you know, because I was like why because it was Pamela Winslow and I we got, it's funny because Pam is from Maplewood which is right where I live and I met her like a couple years ago with her parents at her old house it was so funny we're like this is so strange. But yeah, that was so crazy. Yeah, both it I mean and they're still together like it's doing the thing in Costa Mesa and then bam, that was really just, you realize when you get there, it was a little stressful in terms of the material was a lot, but then just looking around being so grateful to have that time together was like it was done.

[1:02:07] Danielle Ferland: Yeah. And Mo Rockwell making that great joke about when they do into the woods in China, they call the song child will listen. So, I remember James was like, Oh, like he's great.

[1:02:41] Ben Rimalower: Well thank you again so much you're wonderful and thank you so much, and I will talk to you soon.

[1:02:51] Danielle Ferland: Yes, please.

[1:03:21] Ben Rimalower: Thank you for listening to Giants in the Sky how Sondheim and Lapine went into the woods on the Broadway Podcast Network. Check out episode four, where I talk with Ira Weitzman, the original dramaturg.