This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Ben Rimalower: Broadway Podcast Network presents Giants in the Sky: How Sondheim and Lapine Went Into the Woods with me, Ben Rimalower.

[0:09] Ben Rimalower: Today's guest, Maureen Moore, The Witch on the demos.

[0:12] Ben Rimalower: Once upon a time, Maureen Moore sang the role of The Witch on the demo recordings made of the songs cut from Into the Woods, including "Boom Crunch." She is beloved by Sondheim fans for her performance as Countess Charlotte in the city opera production of A Little Night Music, as immortalized on both Live from Lincoln Center and the Great Performances broadcast of Sondheim: A Celebration at Carnegie Hall. Her association with Stephen Sondheim began in 1974 when she played Dainty June in Gypsy, starring Angela Lansbury. She worked with James Lapine in Falsettos on Broadway and Tour, in which she played both Trina and Cordelia at different points. In addition to her numerous Broadway principal credits, including I Love My Wife, Amadeus, La Cage aux Folles, and Jerome Robbins' Broadway, Maureen made a name for herself standing by for Christine Ebersole in Grey Gardens, Elaine Paige in Sunset Boulevard, Cyndi Lauper in The Threepenny Opera, Polly Bergen in Cabaret, and for Bernadette Peters in both Gypsy and Song and Dance. She serves on the National Council of Actors' Equity Association.

[1:28] Maureen Moore: So I was born in Wallingford, Connecticut, which this is a kind of aside, but it had a summer theater called the Oakdale Summer Stock Theater. And my parents had a roaming house. So a lot of the chorus people would stay there. And one summer we had Beau Bridges, and I was about, I want to say eight, maybe seven, and I was really cross about something, and I was riding my bicycle back and forth on the street, and this fellow, very handsome fellow, looked very familiar, and he said, "I'm looking for number 38," and I said, "It's right there." And he said, "Well, how do I get in?" I go, "Go down the back and up the stairs," and went into the kitchen as opposed to ringing the front doorbell. Oh my god.

And so this gentleman walked into the kitchen, and my mother, the town was very culturally diverse—Italians, Portuguese, Puerto Ricans, Polish, Irish—it was a wonderful melting pot. And this gentleman who happened to have been Lloyd Bridges walks into the kitchen, and one of the women goes, "See, humpta, see, humpta." And so that was pretty extraordinary. And Beau happened to have been out because he liked to take a homemade fishing pole and go up to the reservoir, which was about five miles away. So in any case, I don't remember what show he did or what he was doing exactly. Anyway, I think because my mom was the one who was inspirational in getting me into the business. I started performing, I think around eight or nine, and a lot of competitions, a lot of competitions, and like June.

Exactly. And when you're that young and your mother is coaching you and showing you what you should do, you kind of have a leg up, you know, although all the kids did. But I remember there was this one competition that it was week after week after week, kind of like what happens on television now. And so the finals, and they said my name to win, and I just remember my father, I could see him in the crowd going like this, his hands in the air for those who can't see. In the champion thing, and you know, that was my childhood and high school, and we had a wonderful team of teachers who loved musicals and plays, so I got to do that, and then I went to Carnegie Mellon to the department before the musical department started. Actually, I think I was in my sophomore year when the musical theater program began.

[5:09] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, and did you know you wanted to do musicals, or was that just what they put you in because you had the goods?

[5:19] Maureen Moore: Well, when I graduated, it's one of those Carnegie, and I'm sure other schools in the same ilk, not everybody graduates; people either drop out or aren't asked back, so it's a very small class. And of course, you know, studying the classics and plays, and I did do a musical, actually She Loves Me on the main stage, and so that was something, but everything else was plays. So when you go to New York, however, in nineteen seventy-two or three, oh, when I left Carnegie, I had an offer to do Great Lakes Shakespeare Festival, and so it was a full season of all these wonderful different roles. And then going to New York, I was there about two weeks, and Godspell had started at Carnegie, and it was the studio production, and I was in a main stage production.

So I wasn't in it, but of course, one flipped out when they started. And so when I went to New York after Great Lakes Shakespeare Festival, it was the days when you had a— and I don't even think I had an answering service yet. But my mom got called, and she was trying to reach me, and there was no way. Anyway, to make a long story short, I finally called them, and they said they want to see you for Godspell.

[7:01] Maureen Moore: Wonderful.

[7:02] Ben Rimalower: So it was already a big hit in New York then.

[7:05] Maureen Moore: It was, but this was for the first national tour, which was a sit-down in Boston.

[7:11] Ben Rimalower: Oh wow.

[7:12] Maureen Moore: So I went to Boston, and at the same time, I got offered a—oh God, trying to remember the show with Tommy Tune, Michelle.

[7:22] Maureen Moore: Oh, CSA.

[7:24] Ben Rimalower: The CSA.

[7:25] Maureen Moore: But I'd already signed my contract, but they— in any case, I wasn't able to do that. And it's a good thing because I met my husband.

[7:34] Maureen Moore: Oh yeah.

[7:35] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[7:36] Maureen Moore: I sublet his apartment, actually. It was the Goodbye Girl story. So that's so funny. In Boston, he comes back from Europe, and someone in the cast was leaving—an understudy was leaving. I took his apartment, and then the real person who happens to be my husband of— we've been together since '74 as a couple.

[8:06] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[8:07] Maureen Moore: Wow.

[8:09] Ben Rimalower: Good for you.

[8:11] Maureen Moore: And then after Godspell, I went to New York and auditioned for—now because it was Lansbury Baruch who had done—they were the producers of Godspell.

[8:28] Maureen Moore: And they were doing The Magic Show.

[8:31] Ben Rimalower: That was Edgar Lansbury.

[8:33] Maureen Moore: Edgar Lansbury.

[8:34] Maureen Moore: Yeah.

[8:34] Maureen Moore: And Joseph Baruch, that's correct. And they were casting for The Magic Show.

[8:42] Maureen Moore: So I went in.

[8:44] Maureen Moore: The next Stephen Schwartz show.

[8:46] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[8:47] Maureen Moore: And another—because Godspell was his also.

[8:51] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[8:52] Maureen Moore: And I got it, except then they—I got called from Lansbury Baruch too that they wanted me to go in for Gypsy, and even though it had already been cast, I don't recall exactly the story, but I went and sang for Jule Styne and Arthur Laurents in a small studio somewhere, I can't remember.

[9:25] Maureen Moore: So, you know, it might have been the Promenade Theater if I'm remembering correctly.

[9:30] Ben Rimalower: Anyway, there was—I believe so.

[9:33] Maureen Moore: That's where Godspell was actually, so I'm pretty sure it was there.

[9:39] Maureen Moore: And I got called about an hour later that I got it, and the next day they said, "Come into rehearsal." So The Magic Show was out and Gypsy was in, and of course my parents, little Lansbury, they were like swooning. And I got to the studio, and it was like so quiet, and nobody—people were crying, and it was very, very surreal. I didn't know what was happening, and I think it was the stage manager who took me aside and said there was a terrible accident, and Jackie Britton, I think that was her name, who was playing Mazeppa, she had gone to get out of jury duty and went down to the court area, got into an elevator, the elevator broke, and so that was my first day.

[10:47] Maureen Moore: And so I had to hire a new Mazeppa, and but when you have someone like Angela Lansbury, a leader like that, then everything starts from the top, you know. It truly was so—that was that first day of rehearsal.

[11:15] Ben Rimalower: Was Stephen present for that?

[11:15] Maureen Moore: I don't remember if he was there that day.

[11:21] Ben Rimalower: Oh, he was at my audition as well.

[11:23] Maureen Moore: I forgot that.

[11:25] Ben Rimalower: So did you have a sense of like who he was, or was it still too early?

[11:31] Maureen Moore: Yeah, no, I didn't. I only knew Jule Styne because I would sing his songs as a child. My mother loved Jule Styne, so there were all these Jule Styne songs in my repertoire. No, I didn't. I had no idea, just like Harold Prince. I remember writing him a letter and asking him to give me some research material, not understanding, and him answering me, which says a lot. Yeah, I had no idea about Stephen, but I found him unbelievably attractive.

[12:11] Maureen Moore: Oh, he was so—something about him. First of all, I thought he was gorgeous, and I said, you know, if you ever want to have a child—well, remember, this is the '70s.

[12:30] Ben Rimalower: I mean, and you'd already met your husband.

[12:33] Maureen Moore: And I didn't know, I didn't know who he was. I just found him—and of course he was the lyricist on this, yeah.

[12:41] Ben Rimalower: So I wasn't necessarily educated enough on his music yet.

[12:49] Maureen Moore: Yeah.

[12:50] Ben Rimalower: So that was the Gypsy story.

[12:52] Maureen Moore: Wow.

[12:53] Ben Rimalower: And then that was for a long chapter of your life because you did it on Broadway, and then there was the post-Broadway tour with Angela that you did as well, right?

[13:04] Maureen Moore: I did, I did Broadway.

[13:07] Maureen Moore: Well, there was a pre-tour.

[13:08] Ben Rimalower: There was a pre-tour.

[13:09] Maureen Moore: Oh, okay.

[13:09] Ben Rimalower: I got it.

[13:10] Maureen Moore: It was pre-Broadway.

[13:11] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[13:11] Maureen Moore: So yes, but you're right. Then we did—I did do it in Florida, but that's—that was one reason I don't like to go back and do things, but I did because my husband's family was living down in Florida.

[13:28] Maureen Moore: So we went down. Uh then I know they did summer stock tours, and I didn't see—I mean, I didn't do it, but I went to see it and was wonderful as always. Yes, yes. Um okay, so this was really then the beginning. I mean, you were just really just in all these Broadway shows after that, because it wasn't long that you were in I Love My Wife, I think as well, right? I love my wife, but in between I went back to Boston to I was doing cabaret in the uh Chateau Duville dinner theater circuit. Where you Sally Bowls? Sally Bowls, oh action, yes. And uh, and that's—and of course I stayed with my best friend who was my husband and I came with my German shepherd Torch and he was a little puppy and so that took a chunk out of my life because then I wound up after the show I quit the show early before the um the end of the—the uh not the contract but um my end was and then they got extended and I decided not to do it, yeah and uh to live my life with uh who he wasn't my husband yet and then I got a call so this is at least two years in Boston and yeah wow though I love Boston it's not New York no it's not although Filene's basement was great but uh in any case I got a call to audition for Sucker Rep uh production of Unsung Cole it was a brand new piece and it was all songs that Cole Porter wrote that weren't on the big radar.

[15:27] Maureen Moore: How cool and it was it was Anita Morris, wow me, Mary Louise and Jean Lindsay oh and John Snowman and Mary Louise that's not Mary Louise Wilson. No, Mary Louise she went like for at her last she was married to um Bill Britton. I and so anyway, but that show really put me on the map in that it was the summer of 77. Not a lot was happening in New York. The show was a little jewel box, and I got a ton of publicity. Uh fabulous. Newsweek did an article. I mean, there were all of these wonderful uh things that happened to me and for me. And then it was after that that I think I did I Love My Wife. What were your uh songs in Unsung Cole, if you remember? Oh, uh Tale of the Oyster, one nine and no and nobody's chasing me.

Oh Olga from the Volga. Um what else? Um I think those were certainly my favorites. A couple of duets, but the Nobody's Chasing Me was it I sang one verse and then something would happen in between, and then I'd sing a second verse, and the arrangements were brilliant. Uh two pianos.

[17:11] Maureen Moore: Oh, so and when did your work with Tom Ion figure in? Oh, and and but just one second, I have to just put a plug in. I mean, not a plug, but how brilliant Anita Morris was. Oh wow, I bet she stunningly beautiful, so her craft, how she worked on her craft, and just uh I feel so lucky to have um shared the stage with her. Yeah. Uh so Tom Ion, this was an interesting story well maybe not to everyone but it was to me I had just done Amadeus on Broadway with Mark 80s okay with Mark Camel yeah and I got I forgot who called me in oh you know I was very close with Johnson Lith oh the casting directors yeah yes the casting directors who were the premier casting directors at that time and it was to be seen for this show a workshop called Kicks the showgirls musical the showgirls musical right so I went in and I I forgot I sang something oh I think I sang uh lost liberty blues that which Anita had sung in um in So Cold yes and then I had he gave me the script and he was like he was like all over the place holding his head like and he goes oh you're killing me you're just killing me so I stopped the audition and I handed back the script and I walked out and Vinny ran out and he said you've got to come back in I said oh no no no no I'm I'm not going back in and he goes no he really loves you really well as it turned out, he really did love me and and we became extraordinarily close. I miss him to this day.

[19:29] Maureen Moore: Yeah. He was he was so unique and so talented and so I don't know, on a different sphere. If you ever have a chance, YouTube Tom accepting the Tony for Dream Girls. You will have a good laugh. And that is quintessential Tom Ion. It must have been so gratifying to be close to him before that moment and then see him come into this huge success. Well, Dream Girls had already opened. Oh, I see. Okay, sorry. Yes, Dream Girls had already opened. Uh what? So we did three workshops, almost a year of workshops, and that show was so incredible, but it was j it was, oh, it was Alan Mankin who that went the little shop of horrors, sure downtown, and then of course the movie, and then his career just was off the charts.

Yeah. So that's uh they must have thought how could kicks go wrong with the guy from Dream Girls and the guy from Little Shop of Horrors. This was gonna be a huge hit. Well, this was interesting. It was supposed to uh be done, and we had backers, and then and then I don't know, uh, the dire uh oh the backers did Tom wanted to direct it, and Christopher Chadman, the late wonderful Christopher Chadman was choreographing it, and his choreography was brilliant, brilliant cast, and the backers said, uh Tom, you can't direct it, and Chris can't choreograph it. And they brought in, oh gosh, I can't I think Michael Smewan, and I can't remember. I think Tom was going to co-direct, I'm not exactly remembering correctly, but they the choreographer wanted real heavy duty dancers, and Beth.

Um, oh what's her last name? Oh, she took over in uh Nita's part on Broadway in 9. Totally losing it. Um beautiful, beautiful, like a 1940s movie star. And Terry Klausner and myself, uh, none of us were dancers. I mean, we were just faking it. So we had we had to take classes and then go in and audition. And Tom was so upset, and Chris was so I mean, he was gone. And and basically, I think Tom said, if I don't have them, I'm not going to do it. That's how much he loved us. So it didn't happen. And then we lost Tom. It was a very interesting process. He would give us during rehearsal a uh to do like an improv. He'd give us a s uh an idea, suggestion, and then he'd and so he would tape it and then he'd go home, and the next day he would have written a scene around what we did.

So it was literally we wrote it, we were the characters. And I think after that, um, I don't know. I know that they've had readings of it, but and I have shared that information with some producers uh how Tom worked in any case. I know some of those songs have floated around. I mean, they're great songs. I'm I'm sure uh, you know, probably the whole score will would have that kind of life. I hope I hope it does.

[23:29] Maureen Moore: Um so okay, well, that that I that I mean, what an incredible uh time to be coming up. And um, so tell me then. This is around the time I that Sunday in the Park with George opened. Uh and I guess you had not yet worked with James Lapine as you would go on to do later. Were you a fan of that show? Did you see that? I I assume by that point Sondheim meant something to you. Oh, yes, and I think I had done a couple of readings for him. Oh. I I'm I'm trying to remember. Yes, I loved Sunday in the Park, and I was standing by for oh, after it was still running, but Bernadette was gone, and I I was standing by for her in song and dance. Yes. So that's that was and that was so oh I know because we were right next door.

I think Paul Geminiani came to see me do song and dance. A lot of this, a lot of what happened with me, I think was, and for a lot of people, was inspired by the brilliant Paul Geminiani, who was great one of the—I mean the greatest interpreter of Sondheim's uh music and he understood character also which and he was fun, but he was very serious about the craft. So I think that's how Le Pine I think I I'm not a I'm not remembering clearly at this point, but uh my introduction to uh Geminiani was I think instrumental yeah possibly oh I I think I auditioned oh when Into the Woods happened, I think I auditioned as a replacement.

[25:30] Maureen Moore: Oh yeah. I think so. Yes, no, I know I did for the Baker's wife. And then I get called to at the kind of at the not at the last minute, but it was a very short time. Oh, and I was I have had just finished uh understudying with John Cameron Mitchell in Big River. So I loved John Cameron Mitchell, yes, and we were both um Michael Jackson fans, and uh he gave me a tape, the Michael Jackson cassette tape, and we he said this song, I'll be there. He goes, That's for you from me. Mm-hmm. So I am not surprised at the tremendous success. Uh he is such a talented, nice human being. Yeah.

[26:34] Maureen Moore: Yeah.

[26:36] Maureen Moore: So we get though you had done Big River.

[26:38] Maureen Moore: Although I think actually I interviewed John Cameron Mitchell for this also, and I think he mentioned you about Big River, and I think I thought he was mixing it up because it wasn't on your um IB page.

[26:50] Maureen Moore: No, it's not.

[26:51] Maureen Moore: That isn't, and neither is Falsettos as an under, you know.

[26:56] Maureen Moore: I started from opening night with Falsettos on Broadway. Uh I went on the night before opening halfway through the show, had no costumes, and there were critics in the theater. Oh my God. And it was, and I think it was the New York Post. Uh you opened the second page, and there my photo took half of the page. And you and back then the second page was the page that you know someone got murdered and their photo was there. No. So in any case, so that was uh that was the falsettos. So that I wasn't in the program for that uh either. So that was interesting. Well, by the when I saw you in it in later in '92, you had taken over as Cordelia. So you were definitely in my program because I remember reading your bio and knowing that you had done the American premiere Blood Brothers.

I was taking it all in. It's you know, when you're young, it it it sticks with you. Um, but going back uh to Song and Dance and speaking of Sunday in the park with George, I know that Bernadette uh I guess maybe took time off from Song and Dance because she was already in Song and Dance when she went back to Sunday in the park to film it. And so would you have been take done that week or whatever when she filmed Sunday in the park? Yes I did. And I believe she only took two or three days. Oh wow she she is oh God she is such a brilliant hard worker and so her craft is so phenomenal. Uh I'm obviously a huge fan.

[28:44] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. I mean who isn't I mean it's funny for all the many, many uh sort of Laurels and hosannas that she's gotten I still look at her performance in Sunday in the park with George and think it was underrated, you know. Um but uh but then uh Song and Dance was uh you were covering her and that seems like that must have been the most brutal part. I mean just the vocal range of those songs and uh one after the other after the other after the other um and uh I mean it's unsurprising I think of you as somebody with that kind of muscle but did you did you have to do uh new training to to get into that kind of shape?

[29:27] Maureen Moore: I mean that that's unlike any other score it seems you know uh I can't remember if I was who I if I was studying at that time I with anyone I'm trying to remember. I I don't clearly remember uh but yeah, that was that was challenging, and I had to negotiate a lot with the music and saying, okay, you're gonna get me there, you're gonna get me there. But uh it it worked, and I you know, I don't know if I had to do it every night. I know that up in my dressing room I sang through it every single night. Uh much to the chagrin, I'm sure, of my fellow hallmates. But uh it it uh yeah, it was pretty amazing. Um and again, you know, the the chops, and I know Bernadette took a lesson every single day.

[30:32] Ben Rimalower: Wow, yeah, and again, the dedication and the seriousness of her craft is a lesson for all.

[30:40] Maureen Moore: Yeah. And uh people also talk about the kindness. I I also talked to Betsy Jocelyn, who like you stood by for Bernadette in several different shows. And um she said that Bernadette was just so generous as far as like I guess Betsy's mother had died, and uh Bernadette like somehow got the phone number at at Betsy's mom's house in Staten Island just to call her and say, please don't worry about me. You're just stay there with your family as long as you need like she told this whole story that was so moving about that.

[31:13] Ben Rimalower: Well, again, as I mentioned earlier, it starts from the top.

[31:18] Maureen Moore: Yeah, and a happy cast comes from the top. And when you have when you are fortunate enough to have an Angela or Bernadette, it it changes you you're so happy to go into the theater every night. Just thrilled. And that's not always the case.

[31:39] Ben Rimalower: No. What was Song and Dance your first time as a standby?

[31:44] Maureen Moore: No. Oh, I I'm trying I think Big River was.

[31:48] Ben Rimalower: Oh yes. You said I'm sorry, I was not sure what what your role was there.

[31:52] Maureen Moore: I was pretty sure. And and I wanted to do it, though I know my agent didn't want me to. I didn't think my husband wanted me to either. But I I thought this cast is amazing, first of all. And Des Makinoff, I had already heard about and Roger Miller, come on. What could be bad? And and it was a lot of great roles. I mean, you know, again, the the people in it, uh Renee or Bergewa, oh yeah. Of course, John Goodman who turned out and Daniel um Jenkins, yeah, I mean, it was Bob Gunton. I mean, these were you know, giants as far as I was concerned, and I yeah, it was uh I thought it was a privilege to stand by for.

[32:44] Ben Rimalower: I mean, well, I I just like song and dance. I mean, I would really love to hear you sing that score too. I mean, what's the um uh leave-in's not the only way to go? That seems like made for your voice.

[32:50] Maureen Moore: Leave in's not the only oh yes, yes. That beautiful uh I guess it's a duet. So beautiful.

[33:02] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. I should listen to that score again.

[33:05] Maureen Moore: Yeah, it's so good. Although I thought the Deaf West production was fantastic.

[33:11] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Did you see that?

[33:13] Maureen Moore: Oh my god, I was just beautiful, beautiful.

[33:19] Ben Rimalower: So um, okay, that's around the time that Into the Woods happened the first time. Did you only audition for a replacement and not for the original uh incarnation?

[33:29] Maureen Moore: I wasn't available to audition originally, and I can't remember why. Uh I just can't remember why. Same thing with the Vita. I was not available. I can't remember where I was, but uh I wasn't around.

[33:44] Ben Rimalower: Another score I'd love to hear you sing.

[33:46] Maureen Moore: Um my god, that score back when I would have loved to, but yeah, uh that was pretty incredible. Um you mentioned that you did some readings with James Lapine.

[33:59] Ben Rimalower: I you know, not James Lapine, I think for Sondheim and I mean and you know what? I think that was after.

[34:04] Maureen Moore: I think it was Good Guys, was that the name of the Wise Guy Sounds?

[34:11] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, wise guys, and that was afterward and yeah, yeah, that was afterward.

[34:15] Maureen Moore: So I'm I'm uh so then the next thing you did with Le Pine or Sondheim was Falsettos, and was that did that come about as as an audition, just like to come in when they were bringing it from Hartford Stage to Broadway?

[34:29] Maureen Moore: Oh, I saw it at Hartford Stage.

[34:32] Ben Rimalower: Oh yeah.

[34:33] Maureen Moore: It was so good, it was so wonderful. Uh no, I didn't go in originally.

[34:40] Maureen Moore: I don't know, I didn't go in originally, but Le Pine made an offer to stand by. And again, I thought, yeah, yeah, this is a good show. This is a wonderful show. And of course, I'd seen the one in Hartford, which was uh Grazie. Yes, and to have James be the one who's directing also. So that was a that was a great trip. I really enjoyed that doing that show.

[35:13] Ben Rimalower: And then forgive my ignorance, but did Graziella direct you in First Lady Suite?

[35:20] Maureen Moore: No, it was Kristen Sanderson.

[35:24] Ben Rimalower: Oh, okay.

[35:25] Maureen Moore: Okay. Yes. Yes.

[35:26] Ben Rimalower: Um, but that was your beginning uh working with Michael John Lacusa.

[35:31] Maureen Moore: Yes, I did that with him, and uh I did a concert uh Lincoln uh I can't remember this Alice Tully, I don't remember, but it was music, and I I did one of the songs from uh for First Lady Suite.

[35:50] Ben Rimalower: I loved that show.

[35:51] Maureen Moore: Oh my god. I loved it too, and I'm so happy they finally recorded it, but I was very sad not to have it with you and Alice Playton and that wonderful cast that you did it with at the public.

[36:01] Maureen Moore: Well, it's interesting when I went to the Lincoln Center library after we closed, it was a very short run.

[36:12] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, the fellow at the desk, or whomever the manager, I can't remember who it was, said, Why didn't you tell us we would have filmed it?

[36:24] Maureen Moore: And I thought, well, I don't know that I should be telling you, but but in any case, it was a pretty sensational case.

[36:36] Ben Rimalower: Totally.

[36:37] Maureen Moore: Well, they must have been asleep though, because uh I was just visiting my grandparents from California, and I remember in the audience, like with us was Paul Geminiani, Mary Rogers, Adam Geddle. The cover of American Theater Magazine was a huge photo of Michael John Lacusa that said the next Sondheim. I mean, that was literally the headline.

[36:57] Ben Rimalower: Um, so they were not paying attention at Lake Center Library.

[37:03] Maureen Moore: Yeah, I I had a nice relationship with them. I I don't know if they were saying, hey, uh, maybe we should have done that, and you know, because we're friendly with you, maybe I don't know.

[37:17] Maureen Moore: But uh it's it's it's a shame, especially.

[37:20] Ben Rimalower: Oh, if you could have seen Alice.

[37:22] Maureen Moore: Oh my gosh, she was amazing.

[37:24] Maureen Moore: Here's Mamie.

[37:26] Ben Rimalower: Oh god, she was so fabulous.

[37:29] Maureen Moore: So wonderful, wonderful.

[37:31] Ben Rimalower: But I remember so well that scene with you on the airplane that was um really uh it's like I could pick I could picture it like it was yesterday.

[37:41] Maureen Moore: Um and uh well, then you did really an incredible string of these standby jobs on Broadway.

[37:50] Ben Rimalower: By I mean, you would not think that one performer could have stood by for I mean, it's like uh Elaine Page, uh Mary Louise Wilson, Bernadette Peters, Cindy Lauper, Christine Eversol.

[38:06] Maureen Moore: Is that right? I mean it that's that's true, and Betty Buckley because she took over for Bernadette in Song and Dance.

[38:13] Ben Rimalower: Yes, right, of course.

[38:15] Maureen Moore: Um and I think that's why she was unavailable to do into the woods when they went to San Diego.

[38:22] Ben Rimalower: Um oh, I saw that.

[38:25] Maureen Moore: You did I did at La Jolla.

[38:28] Ben Rimalower: That's right.

[38:28] Maureen Moore: Oh, it was my husband and I were visiting a friend, yeah, and we heard that it was you know premiering there, and of course, being a Sondheim fanatic then.

[38:42] Maureen Moore: I oh my god, how lucky are we? And we felt so fortunate to see it. And then, you know, to for us, we we said, oh my god, we're going to watch the development of this in a way, you know.

[38:56] Ben Rimalower: And that was that was fantastic.

[38:59] Maureen Moore: And I was so pleased that at some point Ellen got to do it on Broadway.

[39:06] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[39:07] Maureen Moore: Um, and uh it seems like from all accounts that uh they had felt that they needed, you know, more of a name in that role when they were going to Broadway, but that they had loved her and all thought she was brilliant and and in fact, you know, brought her back on at the end.

[39:24] Ben Rimalower: Um but uh did you sit there?

[39:27] Maureen Moore: I mean, were you just was your mouth watering thinking like I I want to be in this show, I've gotta play one of those roles.

[39:34] Maureen Moore: You know, it's it's interesting. When I see a show, I never think that I'm so into the show. Maybe afterward I would think about it. Uh but at that, no, usually someone will say to me, you know, you'd be good in that role, but I don't necessarily think about it. I don't necessarily go after things like that. Uh I just I I've been maybe not aggressive enough, not I don't know, just uh honestly.

[40:06] Maureen Moore: I mean, with your range of these characters and roles that you have played and sung is so wide, it almost is like it would be you would you couldn't do that because you would have to feel that way about every single thing you saw.

[40:21] Maureen Moore: It would all be Maureen Morals. Um that maybe it's just uh sanity's sake. Um, I mean, it's just astonishing. I'm now I'm just looking at your IBDB page and it's just out of control. And we didn't even mention Falsettos in that list and Jerome Robbins Broadway and Le Mid. I mean Jerome Robbins Broadway. I feel so fortunate. Again, I came into the show, I think it was about four months into the running of it. And again, I think it might have been Geminiani who got me in there. I'll never forget my audition. Uh I am not a dancer. I fake it, I look like I should be, but I'm not. And uh Katie Ha uh K D from the Procers, she was standing next to me. We're on stage, and being given the uh the choreography.

And I, of course, not knowing when I was young that I would get confused left with right, and I guess now one would say that has a bit of dyslexia, you know. Yeah, dancers dyslexia. I never thought of it. Putting my putting the Metro card in the bus. Uh uh, I have to have the bus driver help me like nine times out of ten. I just get lucky once in a while. But so anytime people were going left, I was going right. And she turned to me, she goes, You're going to get this. And I thought, no way. This is Jerome Robbins Broadway. I'm not getting this at all. And sure enough, I did. And I had the most fun. I told I was one of the oldest, and I told the cast the I said, it's all downhill from here. You've got a brilliant producer, the material, I mean, who could top doing this material?

And Geminiani was the conductor. And that was that I had so much fun. 62 people in that show, not counting the standbys. No, that does count the standbys, but not the orchestra. The orchestra was huge and enormous. It was it was such a gift. Was there a c had Jerome Robbins been involved enough in Gypsy where and you know in the in the Angela Lansbury Gypsy that this was a a continuation of your relationship with him? Not at all. No, not at all. And because I wasn't in the process of putting the show together, but of uh Jerome. Yeah. However, he would come and he gave me great notes, he just said, that's a great Claire. And that the world to me. It really did. Yeah, that's Claire in On the Town.

Yes, that's right. Wonderful. Um and uh so somewhere in this time period is when you recorded these Into the Woods tracks. Yes, yes. It was trying to figure out what year that was. Uh I don't I don't recall. It was I the Sondheim had someone call me and they called it a CD ROM. Right. And I didn't know what that was back then. And I thought, and and he said it was for educational purposes. So uh I remember wearing a blue silk shirt and a pinar. And I don't remember the name of the studio, but it feels like it was only 10 years ago. And being in the room in the studio and and singing and making Sondheim laugh when I growled during a boom crunch. But learning it, I didn't we didn't have much time.

And my husband and I had planned a trip, friends from California had come in and we planned this trip to Vermont. And I I was obsessed about learning Boom Crunch, and it's not an easy song. And I stood out on a hill overlooking the incredible changing of the color of the leaves and learning Boom Crunch. And it was a spiritual I I I almost you know, like I have a lump in my throat because that moment meant so much to me, and I had to get it perfectly. It was Sondheim, and it was an incredible, incredible number. Yeah.

[45:09] Ben Rimalower: It's that's such a beautiful image. And I mean, and thank God you did. I mean, when we think about like you know, cut songs, uh, I mean, well, first of all, with the composer like Steven Sondheim like Cole Porter. I mean, you're talking about Unsung Gordon, and this is un or unsung Cole, and you know, this is Unsung Steve, and um, and you know, I'm doing this deep dive into Into the Woods, and so many people um who worked on the show, uh had such an affection for Boom Crunch and you know felt like the powers that be, you know, made this choice to replace the song with Last Midnight, and um, you know, especially for them for because they had known Boom Crunch first, there was a great sense of you know regret about that that's been expressed to me in so many different conversations about this um musical.

And so to discover that in fact it's not lost, it was recorded, not some scratchy bootleg, but an actual professional recording. And with the wonderful you, I mean, it's really it's a gift to the generations of Sondheim fans. Again, the driving force of Paul Geminiani's conducting that energy, it just flows through and so a lot has to do with that, but also being able to watch Sondheim's face as you're singing, and uh even though you have the music in front of you, I had that thing down cold. That's just that's just my thing as an understudy. I am ready. You call me, I'm on the stage.

[46:56] Maureen Moore: Well, that is why that track is as wonderful as it is, because it doesn't sound like somebody just doing them a favor so they have like a scratch version, you know, to preserve it. It sounds like the definitive Boom Crunch, and you know, that's what we want it to be. Um and um I also wonder if it's, you know, there was talk about um uh how both Bernadette and Betty had struggled with that song. As you mentioned, it it is a difficult song to learn. Um I wonder if the pressure being off of not being like, oh, this is my Broadway show. This is my big song, is it good enough? Am I learning it good enough? Is you know, do I wish it was something else? As opposed to being like, this song has no obligation other than to be itself and I'm just here to serve it.

You know, maybe that is a a more um, you know, a freer way to to be uh a part of it. I I wonder, however, I thought Last Midnight was a very difficult song uh vocally. Uh I thought I don't know if it was a vocal uh thing about Boom Crunch or that they found it musically challenging, like the rhythms or the intervals, or maybe they I I you know, I don't know. That I neither of them expressed that to me. That's just what people said about the process and why it was replaced.

[48:23] Ben Rimalower: Um well, it was very uh I don't know, mysterious, odd. You know, the cha as you said, the changes went from one to another. It's not like you could go out singing, it's the last midnight, you know. Like it wasn't that at all, but it was it it is a uh it's a gorgeous uh incomparable. I don't know what other song one could put in that same category. Truly. Um and then you recorded a a bunch of tracks with the with John Cameron Mitchell and George Lee Andrews and Betsy Joslin. I mean, that was like you were all like a sort of how much time did you have together as this repertory company to oh yeah, and Kim Crosby, thank you. Nothing. W that day that that was wow. Yeah. Again, you you Geminiani was really a person who said taught me in a way what if you're gonna come into a recording, you better know everything. I mean that's me anyway, but especially this you just know your part.

[49:35] Maureen Moore: Yeah. And uh so but you had more than one part because there were the the five of you were recording you know 17 characters or whatever for some of the like that song um second midnight and um I mean you were doing double duty uh Beyond the witch I think that you were also singing some of the Baker's wife stuff and or so Jack's mother and the stepsisters I mean there was a lot of there there was a lot I obviously you didn't have to do it in one breath and sure there was editing but you had to do all that. Yes I don't remember having a rehearsal I just remember being there and of course going over it in the in the studio but I don't I don't no I don't recall us meeting beforehand.

[50:23] Ben Rimalower: Wow again for me I mean those people are real musicians. I have to memorize but maybe that is what makes the storytelling in your in your voice you know so expressive because you're you're you're acting it rather than reading you know notes on a page it's like I I told the kids in the understudy kids in when I was standing by for Bernadette and Gypsy and uh the uh Sam said, Hey, will you down in the basement go work with Sam Mendes? Yeah, brilliant, wonderful Sam Mendes. Uh and I said, Great, yeah, sure. And they didn't know their lines, and we're yeah, and and I said, No, no, no, no, no. Come back, you've got to learn your lines. Now I I had kind of a muscle memory from when I was doing the show with Angela. Yeah, so it was a little easier for me, but still I didn't play Rose, but still you hear it, and you know, when you're younger, all that stuff stays with you.

[51:34] Maureen Moore: Uh but again, I've always purport when you stand by, you better be ready. Yeah, every minute to go on. And and that I mean, famously you had to go on a lot in that production because there was you know a lot of strain on Bernadette and and all that pressure in that time. I mean, just it was all over the papers, what was going on. Um, so that was not just um, you know, rake in case of emergency. I mean, you were you were ready to roll. You know, people don't understand that people get sick. Yeah, and when uh I'm glad that they they have uh and I don't this happened before COVID that that people cannot go into the dressing room to visit you, of course, if it's your husband or your whatever, but when people come back stage, you now meet on stage.

Right. But there's something about, and you know, people are touching you, hair people, makeup dressers, and they're right in front of you. You get sick, and and Bernadette would always welcome people into her dressing room. It's Angela opening night of Gypsy, she thought that she wasn't going to be able to go on.

[52:56] Maureen Moore: Wow. She got a shot for something. I can't remember. I think it might have been B12. And I I don't remember, but she thought I I've blown it. I can't, I can't go on. People don't realize, you know, and you don't you don't turn it off when you leave the stage. I mean, I don't there's some people who can. I certainly could not do it when I was doing standing by for Norma Desmond. Uh uh that it was like I would get home, try to go to sleep, and I would start the show all over again.

[53:35] Ben Rimalower: I mean, that that must have just been such a beast of a role. I mean, I people have talked about just the going up and down that staircase alone, never mind even the singing and acting was just like a workout.

[53:48] Maureen Moore: It was, especially the weight of the costumes. They were pretty hefty. But it was very satisfying. But again, I say that role and Blanche Dubois, you better have some serious, uh you better be in a really good head space. Yeah, because those are pretty, uh intense roles. Yeah, but really getting back just getting back to Into the Woods for one second. Again, as I said, it feels like it was 10 years ago, and for a thank you gift, Sondheim sent us Pere Jouet with the matching glasses and a wonderful beautiful note. If I had the time, I would have looked for that note too, but he again, he was one of those people also who would write notes and say, "Hey, thank you for doing this," and that meant more than anything.

You know, I remember when I didn't get Cats and Trevor writing me a letter telling me he'll never forget, and then he named some things, you know, standing watching you standing on that stage in the darkness. And anyway, those people are giants, and I mentioned Hal Prince answering my inquiry about, "Hey, can you give me all the information you have on Cabaret because I'm doing it in dinner theater?" Answering me, yeah, these are giants, and you sometimes when you don't know and you're so innocent that way, it works in your favor.

[55:46] Ben Rimalower: Did you ever get over your crush on Sondheim?

[55:48] Maureen Moore: Well, I mean, it takes a different turn. It becomes kind of worship instead of, yeah, and I did fall in love, so the crush up. It was the fact that I said that to him, I think back now. Of course, if he had been like Sondheim, Sondheim at that point for me. I reminded him of that. He said he didn't remember, but I said, "Well, I think about it now, and I'm embarrassed," but you know, once again it was out of innocence, and yeah, he was the—I thought he was real hot. Do you know Elaine Stritch always said that too, that she thought Sondheim was just like a snack? I mean, she was into it.

[56:44] Ben Rimalower: Oh god, how about her?

[56:44] Maureen Moore: I saw Dean Jones do Bobby on Broadway.

[56:52] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[56:53] Maureen Moore: And Elaine Stritch's performance is burnt into my—the first Broadway show, by the way, I ever saw was Follies. I was, yeah, I never seen a Broadway show. It’s amazing. I think it was in my second year, first year of college, and then when I was at Carnegie Mellon, I had a little black and white TV, and there was some show on, and it was Baryshnikov dancing to Promises, Promises. And I said to my boyfriend who lived in Connecticut, "You have to get me tickets. I have to see Promises, Promises." I can't tell you how disappointed I was that Baryshnikov was not dancing. I loved the show. I loved it, but I kept saying, "When is he coming out?" Anyway.

[57:47] Maureen Moore: See, all I can think is, oh, well, you could have done Promises, Promises, Promises. You could have done Follies. Um, well, oh, you know what? We just did not talk about at all that we must is your Countess Charlotte. And you know, I was not born yet. I did not see the original production of A Little Night Music, and you know that people worshipped Patricia Elliott, but I have seen many, many productions, and I maintain without pause that your Charlotte was the definitive Charlotte in every way. It was even greater than Diana Rigg in the otherwise unwatchable movie version. And um, everyone that hasn't seen it, by the way, should go on YouTube because you're—that City Opera production directed by Scott Ellis, um, is available and so wonderful. But how did that come about?

[58:34] Maureen Moore: Again, I believe, oh, I—it was at my audition for the replacement of Into the Woods that Sondheim said to—I forgot who was casting or said to Geminiani, "I want to see her when we do A Little Night Music." So that's how that came about. And I was in Jerome Robbins at the time, yeah, that the auditions were taking place, and I left Jerome to do that. But I—this was a great story, little story, not a great story, but a little side story. My brother, who was head ranger of the national parks in Utah, but he started being a rescuer on Mount Denali, uh, at Mount McKinley Denali, uh, the mountain in Alaska. So my father and I went to visit him, and this was like a month before we were going to start rehearsal or two months before, and it was the midnight sun.

So we were in Alaska, and I knew that I was going to be doing A Little Night Music, and going into a pub and coming out at one o'clock in the morning and have it be total daylight, but there were no—you didn't hear a bird, you didn't hear a dog, but it was total daylight. I thought this is wacky. And that helped me. That really, really helped me understand how crazy, you know. And it's like A Midsummer Night's Dream. I know it's totally different, but there's that just that surreal atmosphere. I feel like you've made me hear that when I think about that score now.

[1:00:37] Ben Rimalower: I'm curious. Did you—I know that that production was in the City Opera repertory and came back a couple of times. Did you ever do it a second incarnation there?

[1:00:49] Maureen Moore: No, no, like I said, I don't like repeating things. I did—I actually did it up in Williamstown, and it was a lovely production. You can't—I don't know. If I had unresolved issues with a role, it's like when I—I did get asked to do the role of um, uh, in Grey Gardens at a number of places after the show closed in New York. By the way, I saw you—I think I saw your first performance when you went on as Big Edie/Little Edie, and you were spectacular.

[1:01:25] Ben Rimalower: Oh, thank you.

[1:01:26] Maureen Moore: Thank you. Wow, that was wild. That was my mom died during that show when I was doing that show. That was really a—that came out of nowhere and was really, really distressing. What a show to be working on with that happening.

[1:01:49] Ben Rimalower: Um, that's the point.

[1:01:50] Maureen Moore: That was the point. Yeah. And but my mom actually got to see it. So, and I remember when they came to see it and remember her and how happy she was. I think the happiest though I ever saw her was when she saw me do Rose.

[1:02:09] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:02:10] Maureen Moore: Well, it's a full circle moment for you, I'm sure, and it's the quintessential musical of many generations. I mean, that would make sense. Um, but I cut you off. You were saying that you were offered more productions of Grey Gardens.

[1:02:26] Maureen Moore: Yes, yes. And I—well, I think as I just mentioned, because my mom had died, I just couldn't go back there. And I—I was done. It's not an easy trip to take every night. Um, but it was the battering of losing my mom that was no—couldn't go—couldn't go there again.

[1:02:54] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. I wonder if that's true with a lot of actresses, not about losing people, but about going back and doing something. Uh, if they have a difficult time.

[1:03:10] Maureen Moore: Maybe so. I mean, it well also, I mean, it just seems, uh, you know, certainly in the example of Night Music, when you did a production that was so, um, exquisite and so, um, I guess the set wasn't elaborate, but you had that orchestra at City Opera and oh my god, cast opposite you. Um, I saw the original.

[1:03:10] Ben Rimalower: Oh, did you? Well, I saw the original because I got called to, uh, be a replacement for, uh, Miller's son.

[1:03:10] Maureen Moore: Oh wonderful, that would have been perfect. And as it turned out, the actor stayed, and so it wasn't an issue. But that song actually then became my audition song for a long time. I fell in love with that song. I just, and it was sung so beautifully by the actress, so yes, Djamin Bartlett.

[1:04:12] Ben Rimalower: That's right.

[1:04:13] Maureen Moore: Yeah, that's um, well, I would love to hear you sing that too. I'll just add that to this very long list. Um, but uh, I mean thank god we have that video, uh, because your, uh, "Every Day a Little Death" is just a dream. Um, and uh, I'm sure you have so many fans just from that weekend in the country, uh, at the Sondheim at Carnegie Hall. I mean where, you know, I mean, I think you—you married like such sensibilities of like different eras and the way that you sang how I wish we'd been asked on. I mean, I will never forget the way you did that line.

[1:04:50] Maureen Moore: Ah, thank you. That was so thrilling to do that. Uh, of course, Jim and Yanani had been pretty adamant that that should be the song from A Little Night Music that was done at that. And I was doing Falsettos at the time. As a matter of fact, the producers weren't going to let me out. And this is—oh, this is interesting. They said, "No, you can't do it." So I quit. I quit Falsettos. I was standing by. I was standing by at that time.

[1:05:22] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:05:23] Maureen Moore: And I got a call from Lapine. This was—no one told him. And he said, "Why didn't you tell me?" I said, "Why?" You know, if the producers weren't going to. So as soon as Carol Lee gave her notice because she was going to do another show. Yeah, he called me and he said, "Do you want the role?"

[1:05:47] Ben Rimalower: Oh, wonderful.

[1:05:48] Maureen Moore: To my benefit. Oh, I love doing that show. And Heather McRae, I adore her. And I'm—if you ever have a chance to interview Heather, she probably may be the greatest person to interview. I mean, the stories of a lifetime.

[1:06:09] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I mean, with that family and then the career that she's had, you know, um, I'm not surprised to hear that. Um, well, I mean, Maureen, you are an incredible person to interview. I'm so grateful to you for giving me all this time. It really is just like a treat to get to hear all this stuff about your work because I've been so fascinated by it for so long and to be able to tie it all into this project. It means so much to me.

[1:06:37] Maureen Moore: Well, thank you. Thank you for thinking of me. Um, little Tom Ian. And uh, and I am so glad to have met you.

[1:06:51] Ben Rimalower: Thank you for listening to Giants in the Sky, how Sondheim and Lapine went Into the Woods on the Broadway Podcast Network. Look out for episode thirty-one with Terry Burrell, Broadway understudy and replacement Lucinda.