This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Ben Rimalower: Broadway Podcast Network presents Giants in the Sky. How Sondheim and Lapine went Into the Woods with me, Ben Rimalower.

[0:08] Ben Rimalower: Today's guest, Nancy Dussault, replacement witch.

[0:11] Ben Rimalower: Once upon a time.

[0:19] Ben Rimalower: Hey listeners, just a heads up that today's episode has a little bit of an audio differential between my mic and Nancy's mic.

[0:29] Ben Rimalower: So I apologize for that, but I hope you'll bear with us because I'm very excited about this episode.

[0:34] Ben Rimalower: Nancy Dussault played The Witch for eight months during the original Broadway run of Into the Woods.

[0:40] Ben Rimalower: Her previous Sondheim credits include the Broadway production of Side by Side by Sondheim and the acclaimed 1988 Michigan Opera Theater production of Follies as Sally.

[0:50] Ben Rimalower: She made her Broadway debut as the final Maria in the original Broadway production of The Sound of Music, and went on to receive Tony nominations for Do Re Mi, in which she introduced the standard Make Someone Happy.

[1:06] Ben Rimalower: In addition to innumerable regional and stock credits, Nancy toured in Do Re Mi and years later in The Sisters Rosensweig as Gorgeous Tall Bomb.

[1:16] Ben Rimalower: She was a sought-after guest star during the golden age of TV variety shows and went on to wider fame, starring on the new Dick Van Dyke show, and especially Too Close for Comfort.

[1:32] Nancy Dussault: So beautiful.

[1:36] Ben Rimalower: Oh well, thank you.

[1:38] Nancy Dussault: Thank you very much. I was just listening to your interview with Chip before I clicked into you.

[1:44] Ben Rimalower: Oh, thank you for listening.

[1:45] Nancy Dussault: Well, Chip's so wonderful. That was such a treat to talk to him.

[1:49] Ben Rimalower: Oh, I'm crazy about him, and I'm so happy he was still on the show when I went into it.

[1:55] Nancy Dussault: Yes.

[1:56] Nancy Dussault: Because I think he's amazing. I think he's just great.

[2:00] Nancy Dussault: Totally. I'm going to see him on Friday night, actually, in Harmony.

[2:05] Ben Rimalower: Well, I think he got great reviews.

[2:09] Nancy Dussault: Yes, yes.

[2:10] Ben Rimalower: Well deserved, I'm sure.

[2:12] Ben Rimalower: Well, I have to tell you, I mean, I have been a fan of yours as long as I can remember. I grew up watching Too Close for Comfort.

[2:18] Ben Rimalower: And then when I was in junior high and becoming obsessed with musical theater, it was such a wonderful surprise that one of my favorite television actors had this huge Broadway career I hadn't known about when I was little.

[2:32] Ben Rimalower: I just knew you as Muriel Rush. And then there you were. I mean, the fact that career that you had on the stage to have followed Mary Martin in The Sound of Music and Bernadette Peters in Into the Woods is mind-boggling.

[2:47] Nancy Dussault: I mean, this really straddling all the eras.

[2:51] Nancy Dussault: Yeah, it was funny. After I started doing Too Close for Comfort, I started going out. My husband would produce and direct. We did shows every summer, and that was the constant thing I heard from everybody.

[3:04] Nancy Dussault: Oh, you sing, how nice. And I thought, yeah, for 30 years or whatever. But yeah, that was great. And I'm still sometimes recognized from Too Close for Comfort, which is really of course lovely.

[3:20] Ben Rimalower: You look exactly the same, and you truly do. It's remarkable.

[3:25] Nancy Dussault: And also, but who cares? That show ran for so long because I guess it was on Primetime TV, and then it was in first run syndication, and then it was in reruns forever.

[3:38] Nancy Dussault: I mean, just generations grew up watching that show.

[3:41] Nancy Dussault: Yeah, we our show and Fame, I think were the first two shows to do first run not on the network. And the only reason we stopped was because dear Ted got ill and you know, he passed away, which god, he was 61.

[4:01] Nancy Dussault: And when I think about that now, it's really sad. But I still am very friendly, and I see them with the other three, Jimmy, Bullock and the two ladies.

[4:13] Nancy Dussault: Yes, well, Deborah, we still are very we have a very close relationship, which is really I don't think it's well, I think it is kind of exceptional.

[4:25] Ben Rimalower: Well, you would know you've done it all. I mean, that's funny, Deborah. I actually saw her speaking of Sondheim. Maybe you saw it too.

[4:32] Ben Rimalower: It was I saw her in Company at the Long Beach Civic Light Opera, like, you know, no big whoop 30 years ago.

[4:39] Nancy Dussault: No, I did not see that. And we tried, we went down, I know, to San Diego and some other places to see her, because she's really quite the actress.

[4:48] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. She left the show a year early, which was crazy.

[4:54] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[4:54] Nancy Dussault: She tried to leave earlier because she wanted to do other things, and I said, and she wasn't overly satisfied with what she was doing in the TV show. I said, just stick it out another year or so, just put that money away.

[5:07] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Plenty of time.

[5:09] Nancy Dussault: But she finally didn't believe.

[5:12] Ben Rimalower: So let this is interesting because you know, you're someone who started on the stage, as I mentioned in The Sound of Music. You had been in the original Broadway run, unbelievably, it seems like, you know, another eon.

[5:24] Ben Rimalower: But that was an early gig for you. And of course, you introduced Make Someone Happy in the original production of Do Re Mi with Phil Silvers and Nancy Walker, your first Tony nomination.

[5:37] Nancy Dussault: And biggie for me, that show. And when I think about it, I mean, how number one, how lucky I was, and what it did for me.

[5:47] Nancy Dussault: But the people I worked with, I mean, Phil Silvers just and Nancy took me right under their wing and just taught me so much how to be a better actress, how to do everything.

[5:59] Nancy Dussault: And they sent me out. I was the one, me and Davy Burns, they sent us out to do all the publicity.

[6:07] Nancy Dussault: So I it's funny because my husband is very into sports, and I said, you know, when I was in that show, I was sent to a luncheon, a Sports Illustrated luncheon. I'm not sure why, and got to know all the biggies with Sports Illustrated, so they gave me tickets to every single sport event.

[6:25] Ben Rimalower: Wow in New York City.

[6:27] Nancy Dussault: Wow. So I was everywhere, I was everywhere.

[6:30] Nancy Dussault: That's amazing that I could. You know, all kinds of little things like that, and singing. I got to go down to the White House and sing, and like, you know, it was talk about opening my eyes to the world in a whole nother way.

[6:43] Ben Rimalower: Sure.

[6:44] Nancy Dussault: And I think it was one of the best experiences, of course, I ever had, because it was new, yeah.

[6:50] Nancy Dussault: And everybody came by to see Phil Silvers.

[6:53] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, and everybody came to the show.

[6:55] Nancy Dussault: Sure. You know, Leonard Bernstein was around all the time.

[6:59] Nancy Dussault: Yeah, he was very good friends with Condon and Green. And you know, one night I looked out and I went, Oh my god, there's Emerald Bergman in the front row.

[7:08] Nancy Dussault: Because when I sang that initial song, Cry Like the Wind, I was very I was as far downstage as you could get. So I really could read the girl.

[7:16] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[7:18] Nancy Dussault: So it was great. It was great.

[7:22] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, and a Tony nomination to boot.

[7:24] Nancy Dussault: Yeah, and then you got another one when you were in the production of Bajor with Chita Rivera, and I know that in between you did Carousel at City Center and the more The Sound of Music.

[7:38] Ben Rimalower: I mean, one of the things I'd love to get into with you is I think you were just a star in the golden age of Summerstock doing it, just seems like every musical everywhere.

[7:49] Nancy Dussault: And but we'll come back to that because I know then in the 70s you went out to LA and started doing television, and you'd been in variety shows and stuff, but then you did the new Dick Van Dyke show for several years.

[8:02] Nancy Dussault: Yeah, that was in the early 70s. And then they did a pilot for me, which almost sold.

[8:10] Nancy Dussault: Actually, you can find it online.

[8:12] Ben Rimalower: Oh, yeah.

[8:13] Nancy Dussault: Called the Nancy Dussault Show. And it really was a cute show.

[8:21] Nancy Dussault: I mean, it was about a woman who was in showbiz.

[8:24] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[8:25] Nancy Dussault: On the episode they did, she gets to go on opening night for the star, but on that night she also had just gotten married.

[8:32] Nancy Dussault: So the show is to be every week it would be the next day in the marriage.

[8:38] Ben Rimalower: Oh wow.

[8:40] Nancy Dussault: You know, oversee it. And but they put on a new series about black truck drivers during the Second World War.

[8:48] Nancy Dussault: I think they were anxious. I think the network was a little anxious about doing a show about showbiz.

[8:54] Ben Rimalower: Really?

[8:55] Nancy Dussault: That's too bad.

[8:56] Nancy Dussault: That's too bad.

[8:58] Ben Rimalower: Aren't you in Arizona?

[9:01] Nancy Dussault: No, in New York.

[9:03] Ben Rimalower: You're in New York.

[9:04] Nancy Dussault: Yeah.

[9:05] Ben Rimalower: Where did I get that you taught in Arizona?

[9:07] Nancy Dussault: I don't teach.

[9:10] Nancy Dussault: God, I must have looked up another man.

[9:13] Nancy Dussault: Forget the story.

[9:18] Nancy Dussault: But okay, so but you stayed in LA for a while.

[9:21] Nancy Dussault: I mean, and of course, all those years on Too Close for Comfort.

[9:25] Nancy Dussault: And I know you said you mentioned that you were in the summers, you were doing theater that your husband was producing and directing.

[9:33] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. We did a lot of tours of I'm Getting My Act Together and Taking It on the Road.

[9:38] Nancy Dussault: Yes. I adored doing that. It was the only time actually doing a musical that was really present time and talking about women trying to assert themselves and be who they are and like who they are.

[9:53] Nancy Dussault: I mean, it was a great experience.

[9:55] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. And that was how was I know that you did Follies in Michigan in nineteen eighty-eight.

[10:06] Ben Rimalower: Was that the thing that led you to work with Sondheim on Into the Woods?

[10:14] Nancy Dussault: No. You know what? I can't remember how I met Sondheim, but it was early on in New York.

[10:24] Nancy Dussault: I was married at the time, and I think I had met him. I don't know if it was through the auditions for Company, because I auditioned oh, about 20 times and never got in.

[10:35] Nancy Dussault: And did the read through for the part of Amy.

[10:39] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[10:41] Nancy Dussault: Which at that time was the biggest role.

[10:45] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[10:46] Nancy Dussault: And I remember, I mean, George Furth, who was a friend, he kept saying, Well, I auditioned, he said, be a little crazier, look a little crazier.

[10:53] Nancy Dussault: I didn't but I did that read through and afterwards I told Hal Prince.

[10:58] Nancy Dussault: I mean, people laugh when I tell them this. I said, the wrong person, you had the wrong person as the lead.

[11:04] Nancy Dussault: I mean, she wasn't technically the lead, but she really had probably the most to say and do.

[11:11] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[11:12] Nancy Dussault: So they did rewrite it. They and then later when I did not get the part, they sometimes said, Well, it became so small, we didn't think you'd want to do it.

[11:23] Ben Rimalower: Oh.

[11:24] Nancy Dussault: Which makes you just I know. I mean, I'm shocked they didn't they didn't offer you that later on then because it kept running or you know, uh no, me too, me too.

[11:37] Nancy Dussault: I don't know, the Follies was also a great job because I worked with Juliet Prowse.

[11:44] Nancy Dussault: Yeah, and this is one of those moments, can't think of his name, fabulous male man singer.

[11:53] Ben Rimalower: Was it Ron Raines?

[11:55] Nancy Dussault: Yeah, and I always remember I showed up for rehearsal and it was a quite a large dreary looking rehearsal room, and at the very end of the room, Ron was singing through something, and I started to cry because he sounded like my leading man from Do Re Mi, John, and I got so emotional, and I afterwards after he had stopped, you know, I went up to him and introduced myself and I told him, I said, Oh my god.

[12:25] Nancy Dussault: And he said, Oh yeah, when he got sick later, because he had got AIDS, Ron always replaced him.

[12:33] Nancy Dussault: Oh wow. But he you know, he's fantastic.

[12:39] Nancy Dussault: And Juliette and Edie Adams and I remember and boy am I sorry that nobody was around to video this.

[12:49] Nancy Dussault: We all went out one night after the show at the and after the matinee, I think it was a Sunday night, so very few things were open at Detroit.

[12:56] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. We ended up in a pool hall with just a few guys playing pool, and we these three broads sitting at the bar talking and laughing with Juliette telling us all her stories about Sinatra and Adams.

[13:11] Nancy Dussault: I mean, it was and screaming with laughter. I mean, the bartender was having a ball. He didn't, I don't think he had a clue who we were, but yeah. But that was a great production.

[13:24] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[13:25] Nancy Dussault: I mean also, uh, Thelma Lee and um, and I oh I see Tom Gillantic who was in Into the Woods with you. But I realized I skipped over one of your Sondheim things, and it's one of the questions I wanted to ask you, which was that in the 70s you were a replacement in Side by Side by Sondheim.

[13:42] Nancy Dussault: Oh that was the best. I had just left uh Good Morning America. Yeah, and luckily got a job immediately uh in the theater doing this. Um which totally changed my life. Uh when I had a I guess a great time doing it. I love Georgia Brown and Larry Kurt and Miney. I mean, it was what an amazing cast. Quite the group, and Sondheim was around here and Al Prince. I mean, it and then I was single at the time. One night one of the stage managers said, We have a new stage manager, and I went, So that's lovely. He said, No, I think you'll like him. He said he's uh single and he's handsome and he's straight.

[14:29] Nancy Dussault: The big three. So I met him and I thought, well, that's not my type at all. But eventually I asked him out. Wow. He was very cool at work and very laid back. He would bring me a cup of hot tea every night before the show. And but finally I really got curious and uh and we ended up getting married. So that show did all oh I want to backtrack a bit about Socca.

[14:58] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. Like I was saying early on in my career in the 60s, I'm not real sure how we did get acquainted, but we were friendly. Yeah. And at that time, my first husband I was married to was an advertising, and he very rarely asked me to do anything, but I was a very good cook at that point. And we'd have dinner parties, and he always said, Why don't you invite Steve? He loves to eat. So he would come to my house for dinner. He lived right down the street. And when I think of this later, I go, How did all that happen? And what I do remember, and I talked about it in one of my acts that I did. He I came out of the kitchen at one point, he was talking to about three people, and he was showing them his key ring that someone had given him.

[15:44] Nancy Dussault: And on hanging on it were three little rounds, they looked like records. Yeah discs. He said, These are my best reviews so far. You know, one was like nice lyrics, one one was well it's okay I mean it it's crazy you know so uh and just recently I went back and looked at reviews for his for Westside and forum and some things to see you know what the reviews were but you know I I knew him always when I went into Into the Woods he came to quite a few rehearsals with me yeah to coach me and what moved me the most was when I sang uh when the witch sings stay with me to my daughter uh he I remember one day because I was kneeling with Marin Maisie who was my daughter's daughter and Steve is lying on the floor and he kept saying we gotta know how much you love her.

[16:48] Nancy Dussault: You gotta let us see it. You gotta let us know about it. And of course I'd read about his mother Yeah which is not a pleasant story at all but it was it was very moving to me because he he really wanted the audience to feel that. Yeah and and know and know what that felt like uh and I loved it that he he was there so much.

[17:10] Nancy Dussault: Yeah because when you go into a show like that uh I auditioned yeah I auditioned in LA and I remember uh James Lapine was running the audition and he said can you sing this and he had me sing about seven bars of It's a last midnight.

[17:32] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. Uh he went, Oh God. Well, I guess you can. I said, Do you want to do it on the road? Or I would have made more money. Yeah. Uh, but I had an apartment I still had my apartment in New York, so it's New York it is.

[17:46] Nancy Dussault: And uh 'cause you know when I first saw the show initially, what point did you see it?

[17:52] Ben Rimalower: I've seen I I didn't see it at all on Broadway. I I I um I was growing up in LA and I was very young. I saw it only on the video with Bernadette Peters.

[18:02] Nancy Dussault: Ah.

[18:03] Ben Rimalower: Uh when I first saw it with the original cast, and it was early on, I I liked the show, but wasn't nuts for it.

[18:14] Nancy Dussault: Uh but I knew I had in my head knew that that was a part I could do.

[18:18] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, sure, of course.

[18:20] Nancy Dussault: So it was always back there. So it to get it finally and be in New York was thrilling.

[18:30] Nancy Dussault: Uh and they, you know, you have to learn it real fast.

[18:33] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[18:34] Nancy Dussault: I can't remember I wasn't gonna say a week, but it probably was a nine days, ten days.

[18:39] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. But they had uh an assistant stage manager with me every moment for sure for a good week or so all the entrances were so fast and crazy and uh but I you know of course I finally got it, you know.

[18:54] Nancy Dussault: The makeup man came in and I said, Jesus, this is fun. Uh coming into the theater instead of trying to be glamorous and wonderful, you just get as ugly as you can be. I still have the uh paper he gave me with the picture and where to put the makeup and eyebrows we can get you back in.

[19:14] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[19:15] Nancy Dussault: You have your we've been doing this show. Uh, you know, there are many variations of singing into the woods. We go again.

[19:22] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. One night I thought I was really on and doing great. And I was just, we were sacheting around and everybody I was bumping into everybody. Uh and afterwards everyone said, You're doing the version of the second act of this Dosie Doy instead of this act.

[19:46] Nancy Dussault: I I threw the whole stage into total chaos. And it uh it was I like I said, I was so grateful Chip was still in it.

[19:57] Nancy Dussault: Yeah.

[19:59] Nancy Dussault: Yeah, who I loved. And uh Theona, his beautiful wife, did costumes for me in one show I did for Joe Papp.

[20:07] Nancy Dussault: Uh which was called Trulani of the Wells. Yes, in 1970. It was a brilliant production in the newspaper strike, kind of did a thin, but I got great reviews, and uh I remember Jessica Tandy and they came, came backstage purposely to meet me.

[20:27] Nancy Dussault: I mean, I I really couldn't speak. Yeah. When you meet people like that, you can't talk.

[20:34] Nancy Dussault: Uh it was great. Great, great, great. Uh, you know, and for the filming of Into the Woods, yeah.

[20:43] Nancy Dussault: It was while I was in the show that's right. Of course, they said, Yeah, we're gonna give you a paid vacation because of course Bernadette will come back in.

[20:51] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[20:52] Nancy Dussault: Uh and I went rats, but of course I of course they would want that. I mean, you know, I wasn't that dumb. And then when my contract was up, I got ready to leave, and I knew that the show was going to be ending soon.

[21:08] Nancy Dussault: So unfortunately, I didn't mention this to anybody that I was willing to stay.

[21:13] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[21:14] Nancy Dussault: Uh and I left, and that's when Ellen Foley came out.

[21:17] Nancy Dussault: That's right. The last month. She played like the last was it even a month?

[21:20] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, maybe less.

[21:22] Nancy Dussault: You know, I'm not sure.

[21:23] Ben Rimalower: Because I've got a play bill with I would have loved to have done it to the end.

[21:28] Nancy Dussault: I would yeah.

[21:29] Ben Rimalower: Well, I've I've got a playbill uh with you from January of 89, and I've got a playbill with you from August of 1989, and I guess it closed in like September, so yeah.

[21:42] Nancy Dussault: Rats. But but um but that was a pr a pretty good run. And I'm I'm interested, like so.

[21:48] Nancy Dussault: If you were living in LA, how did it even come about that you auditioned for it? Were were you auditioning for other shows?

[21:55] Nancy Dussault: They came out to LA, yeah. To audition people because they were looking for people for the road company too.

[22:02] Nancy Dussault: Yeah, obviously, you know, like because Le Pine asked, you know, if I wanted to do the rotor in New York.

[22:10] Nancy Dussault: Uh, you know, the most fun thing in that show, plus being playing a wacky woman, yeah.

[22:16] Nancy Dussault: Uh was the change. I mean, that's when all of the theater magic is at its best to come zooming down, standing on a certain little section of the stage and being pulled down, and three people attack you with clothes, makeup.

[22:35] Nancy Dussault: Uh I did cheat. The the witch from the very beginning wore eyelashes. I knew I wouldn't have time to put those.

[22:44] Ben Rimalower: I love that.

[22:46] Nancy Dussault: So that was just magical to me. He had the same dresser as Bernadette, who was boy, I lucked out there.

[22:53] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. Um I really lucked out with her. She became uh pretty cool, we became very, very close.

[22:58] Ben Rimalower: And one more story about just being in the show.

[23:02] Nancy Dussault: Yeah, please. All of them. One morning I got up and I I I wasn't feeling dip top. I knew I had a cold and stuff.

[23:08] Nancy Dussault: So the uh my doctor at that time, her her business was at her apartment. So she said, Well, here I have some sample pills. These are antibiotics. Make sure you take them. And I took them.

[23:19] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. And I felt just great. I started the show that night, and I did the rap.

[23:26] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. Greens, greens. And then I got dizzy and totally out of it.

[23:36] Nancy Dussault: And I looked at the baker at chip and I said, What do you think? He laughed so hard. It was like the cartoons of people, you know, characters or doggies shooting off backwards in the big bark.

[23:49] Nancy Dussault: He shot backwards and landed on his butt. And he said, He and he was laughing so hard he could already speak. He said, Weren't you talking about a giant?

[23:59] Nancy Dussault: To which I went, Oh yeah. That's it. And when we exited the stage, he said, Are you on that new pill?

[24:08] Nancy Dussault: That new antibiotic. And I said, Yeah. And he said, I had to call, get off the bus going home the other night, and call my wife to come get me.

[24:19] Nancy Dussault: Because he had taken the same drug.

[24:22] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[24:23] Nancy Dussault: So it obviously, not for a long time, but just enough time to make you go, who am I, where am I? Someone come helped me. But that was a funny moment.

[24:34] Nancy Dussault: Everybody was so stunned. And I'll tell you, it woke everybody up.

[24:38] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[24:38] Nancy Dussault: Our performances were pretty darn good that night.

[24:41] Nancy Dussault: In the moment. And uh, you know, Joy Franz, when she was on the podcast, she mentioned that she was your understudy and that you had an accident with a staircase or something where she had to go on for a few shows.

[24:54] Nancy Dussault: Do you remember that?

[24:54] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, boy, was she happy. She was so happy. She used all her flowers in my dressing room.

[25:01] Nancy Dussault: I thought, oh God, well, okay. I had a house in Connecticut.

[25:04] Nancy Dussault: And I'd been out to dinner with friends, and I went in the uh library to watch television, and I fell asleep.

[25:13] Nancy Dussault: And when I woke up, I exited the uh room, and there were two doors immediately on my right. One went down to the basement, the other door went into the hallway and upstairs, and I opened the wrong door.

[25:30] Nancy Dussault: I was it was all dark in the house. It was late, it was real, you know, dark, dark, dark, and both doors were closed. Uh and I opened the door to the basement, pushed it open, and down I went.

[25:43] Nancy Dussault: Uh, and landed upside down on the stairs in my arm, and I finally got myself up. It took me a long time and went to bed. Meanwhile, I went, God, I hurt, you know, my shoulder, my arm, and everything.

[25:57] Nancy Dussault: And I called a friend the next day and he took me to the emergency room and I'd broken my arm.

[26:02] Nancy Dussault: Uh and the doctor and I said, I can he didn't put a hard cast on. He put one of those braces. He said, But don't do the show. You can't you can't do the show tonight. Yeah. Because I had to climb up, you know, Rapunzel's hair and do all that stuff. So because I've never missed a show. Uh so this was real hard for me. To miss the show. But I think I missed two. Oh, that's good. And then Sondheim happened to come back the next night. That's not time, Le Pine. Oh, yeah. And came backstage. He said, gee, I thought you'd be better. I mean, I was still in agony. Yeah. I I my reply was you're glad I'm you should be doing on here. Actually, uh so later I worked with Sondheim again. I keep saying Sondheim, but of course I do.

Uh Le Pine later on a workshop of the new brain. Oh, really? I didn't know that. Yeah, and they uh we did the workshop and he had to leave early because his mother I think his mother passed away something, and I uh and then when they finally did a full production, Penny Fuller did it because they didn't want to bring me in. Oh, from California, yeah. Yeah. Which I wasn't happy about. But again, it's something you go, of course that makes sense. And Penny's a friend. Yeah. And is uh quite terrific. So you know, my biggest disappointment in the I had two two real big disappointments.

[27:39] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. The first one I'm gonna tell you about put me to bed for a couple of days. I was finally hired to do cabaret. Oh wow. After Hal Prince had done all these auditions, and finally he called me and said, It's gonna be you, honey, and blah blah. And I'm gonna do it. To be Sally Bowles. Yes. Uh and then I called him. It was a Thursday, I think, and I said, Oh God, let me come in and say you know, I had the music. John Pander had given me the music. I said, Let me come in, let me come in and sing this for you. And he went, Oh, honey, honey, you don't have to. I said, Oh, but I really want to. It's so exciting. And he said, No, no, no, no, no. So I went away for the weekend to our house in Connecticut.

And when I came back on Monday, my agent called and said they've hired somebody else. And the odd thing there was I knew her. She lived next door to me. And I actually could understand why he thought she was a good idea. Uh but later when they were on the road, um and she wasn't doing so well, all I heard was they he kept changing our wig. And uh people from the production came down to see me. I was singing at the uh plaza hotel. And they kept saying, We're working on how we're working on how. He's just gotta bring you in. But he didn't. And I didn't talk to Hal for a couple of years. I mean, we just we just didn't.

[29:06] Nancy Dussault: Yeah, sure. It was uh but needless to say I was disappointed and again I was sort of surprised uh it never came up that I could be a replacement. Uh Penny was, uh Nita was, you know, my cohorts and friends. Again, they were terrific. I mean I could I couldn't complain about it. And the other disappointment was for applause. I could not get an audition. Wow. Uh my agents said they just said no, no. And I was gonna go to just show up, you know, on an open call. But they said no. And then later, before they after they'd hired everybody and they were going on the road, I ran into Joe Layton, uh, the choreographer. Sure. And he looked at me, well, hi, hi, we said hi, and he looked at me, he said, You're so young.

He said, I I thought you were too old to do this part because you had already had this wonderful career. Yeah. So that apparently was the reason. And I said, Oh, who got the job? And he mentioned this girl. He said she's quite wonderful. She's been in the course somewhere. And I said, I bet she doesn't I bet she doesn't make it to New York. Yeah. And of course she didn't. I get my friend Penny Fuller was there. Yeah. But that but it's interesting they would think that. I mean, it goes back to the first thing I said. I mean, who would think that the same person shared a role with Mary Martin and Bernadette Peters? That's just um it it you could just see that they wouldn't think that they wouldn't realize what what era you were of, you know.

[30:48] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. And also you're so versatile. I mean, you were someone that um, you know, was really a soprano and started as this ingenue, but you were also this great belter. And I know in a rare part like with Sondheim, that was probably really useful because when you played Sally in Follies, you had to sing these ridiculous high notes in uh too many mornings and then turn around and belt. Yeah, I had to work I had to work my butt off to be up to him. Um I I really hadn't used my voice like that in quite a while. So uh But you had it. I've heard it on YouTube. You sang those high notes, you sang them beautifully and in buddy's eyes, and and you're a belter also, and that's that's so rare that they probably didn't know what box to put you in.

You know, when I first started auditioning, uh, and when they would say chest voice or something. So I all I did was lower the keys. Uh I had a wonderful voice teacher. I just sang, you know. I didn't I didn't go, oh here, here's my loud chest voice. Uh and now it's kind of annoying. They want they want that high belt uh you know, they want the sound more than the person.

[32:02] Nancy Dussault: Yeah, they want that sound. Uh and one of my early early jobs, which is at the upstairs at the downstairs, which resulted in an article on life magazine on me. And uh, you know, they compared me to be Lily, to this, to that, and uh then I got a call about the fantastics. Oh, sure. And I couldn't do it because he wouldn't let me out of my contract because the article in life had just come out, you know. Oh, sure, yeah. Totally. So I called the office. I called the office like two or three times and uh asking if they had anybody yet, and I said, I'm I have someone I have to recommend. Uh oh god, her name just went out of my head. For the original Fantastics, what was it Rita Rita Gardner? Rita was another woman that I knew very well. We were always at the same auditions together, and that was the good old days where when you auditioned for a role, it was always in a theater. It wasn't in a you know dreary rehearsal room or anything, yeah.

[33:07] Nancy Dussault: And I and I told them, I said, She's always the best one. I said, I love her voice, and her voice is unique. And I said she she as an actress, I said she's the best one. Yeah. I'm sure it had nothing to do. I think they already probably were considering her, but I I laughed at me trying to fill the role. You were a team player, Nancy. My recommendations, but uh and later I did another show with Rita. I mean I just loved her. Yeah, sure. She was she was very special.

[33:39] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. Yeah. I I loved her singing. Yeah. It's it's quite a world show biz.

[33:46] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Well speaking of all those women that were your, you know, uh colleagues through all that time, I believe still one of your good friends maybe as I've heard is uh Karen Morrow.

[33:57] Nancy Dussault: Oh god, yes.

[33:57] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. And you guys did that great TV special together.

[34:01] Nancy Dussault: Yeah, and we did concerts together which were a knockout.

[34:05] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I bet.

[34:06] Nancy Dussault: Uh and you know we uh my husband excuse me videotaped one of our performances out here at the back lot. Uh you know two women had never performed together before. They one it was just very unique. Uh and his car was robbed and they still oh no stole the tapes and we you know on cassette I have a couple of our concerts and I've we talk about it to this day about taking it to some expert recording person to have them play with the tapes and put it out as a fundraiser for actress or you know uh we we've still never done it. I mean we s we were at the top of our game when we did that our voices were you couldn't stop us.

[34:54] Ben Rimalower: Well truly I mean she's got that great kind of like Susan Johnson Ethel Merman like just you know, really operatic belt voice in a way, and you've got this beautiful high belt voice.

[35:06] Nancy Dussault: Her her uh if you call it a belt voice is a beautiful sound. Yeah since there's Johnson who was her she idolized yeah.

[35:14] Ben Rimalower: Uh and Karen very much later in her career did an opera here, and I did an opera uh in Washington DC with the opera company.

[35:24] Nancy Dussault: Then I did we're talking about Soprano Voices. I did Candide out here.

[35:28] Ben Rimalower: Oh, really?

[35:30] Nancy Dussault: Or I played the old woman, old lady, whatever. And there was a duet, not often done, because usually the that part was filled by a singer who couldn't sing it.

[35:41] Ben Rimalower: Oh, we are women, right?

[35:43] Nancy Dussault: An operatic yeah, sure. And again, uh Constance who was uh doing kunagunda. I mean, we we became real good friends, and we you know, I worked so hard getting my voice going there. It was a real challenge and really fun.

[35:43] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[36:01] Nancy Dussault: Um and that was a great production. I mean, some good things.

[36:06] Ben Rimalower: Yes, yes, you did.

[36:07] Nancy Dussault: Well, so I want to ask you because because you did seemingly like every show that ever was written, I want to grill you. I there's some that I've read about you doing. Um I know that um we talked about um, of course, Into the Woods and Follies, and uh I'd love to know what songs you sang in uh Side by Side by Sondheim.

[36:30] Nancy Dussault: You know, the nice thing about that was they let me choose what I wanted to sing.

[36:34] Ben Rimalower: How wonderful.

[36:36] Nancy Dussault: So I did do, of course, Broadway Baby, Losing My Mind, um Send in the Clowns, and I put that in my contract.

[36:36] Ben Rimalower: Smart.

[36:49] Nancy Dussault: I got to sing Send in the Clowns.

[36:51] Ben Rimalower: Very smart.

[36:52] Nancy Dussault: Actually, it was the only song I really knew.

[37:02] Ben Rimalower: How honestly.

[37:03] Nancy Dussault: And once they hired Georgia Brown, uh they said, you know, she really probably would do Sending the Clowns better. It's more suitable to her age.

[37:03] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[37:15] Nancy Dussault: And I I said and I said yes.

[37:18] Ben Rimalower: Team player.

[37:20] Nancy Dussault: But no, but I said yes.

[37:24] Ben Rimalower: Go, Nancy.

[37:26] Nancy Dussault: Go and Georgia was great. She went, Oh, honey, please. She was she was fantastic.

[37:36] Ben Rimalower: Uh so yeah, that was pretty sweet.

[37:40] Nancy Dussault: You know, I don't know if you know this though.

[37:40] Ben Rimalower: What?

[37:41] Nancy Dussault: Karen and I auditioned together.

[37:41] Ben Rimalower: No.

[37:45] Nancy Dussault: Side by side by Sondheim.

[37:46] Ben Rimalower: And you did part of our act for the audition.

[37:48] Nancy Dussault: How perfect.

[37:49] Ben Rimalower: And they loved it and they wanted us both, but Karen had done a pilot.

[37:49] Nancy Dussault: Oh.

[37:56] Ben Rimalower: And she had to wait to see if it was picked up so she could not she couldn't do it.

[38:02] Nancy Dussault: Uh um yeah, that would have been quite a combo.

[38:07] Ben Rimalower: Well, speaking of sending the clowns.

[38:09] Nancy Dussault: It worked out great.

[38:10] Ben Rimalower: It worked out so so well.

[38:10] Nancy Dussault: Yeah.

[38:15] Ben Rimalower: Did you ever do any productions of a little night music?

[38:15] Nancy Dussault: No.

[38:20] Ben Rimalower: Not too late.

[38:23] Nancy Dussault: Or Sweeney Todd, but I did do a concert with George Hearn with the Pittsburgh Symphony.

[38:23] Ben Rimalower: Oh wow.

[38:31] Nancy Dussault: And we did a huge clunk of of Sweeney Todd.

[38:36] Ben Rimalower: Oh wow.

[38:36] Nancy Dussault: My husband would laugh. I'd go in the living room and I had a boom box.

[38:36] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[38:40] Nancy Dussault: And I had the recording of of the show, Sweeney Todd.

[38:40] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[38:44] Nancy Dussault: And that's how I learned it. Just singing along.

[38:48] Ben Rimalower: But instead of working just with a pianist, I I wanted to hear the orchestra.

[38:48] Nancy Dussault: Yeah.

[38:54] Ben Rimalower: Uh and I worked my butt off.

[38:57] Nancy Dussault: And George Hearn, who is a gentleman of the world.

[38:57] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[39:00] Nancy Dussault: Uh because I asked him for anything, any info, anything that would help me uh do better.

[39:08] Nancy Dussault: And he was really darling. He said, honey, you're on you're doing just fine. And it was a great concert. I mean, we did that hunk and then, you know, other Sondheim songs, individual songs, but I was thrilled that I at least got to do that.

[39:23] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, was that recorded, that concert?

[39:25] Nancy Dussault: You know, I have no idea, and I never asked. I'm gonna ask.

[39:30] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I'd like to hear that.

[39:32] Nancy Dussault: You and George.

[39:33] Ben Rimalower: I would too.

[39:34] Nancy Dussault: It may have been, I'm sure. Well, Lucas Richmond was actually conducting, so I'm still in touch with him.

[39:44] Ben Rimalower: Oh good. Now, Anyone Can Whistle, that seems like a perfect show for you and Karen to do together.

[39:51] Nancy Dussault: Never. Never. Never saw it either. So yeah, I'm not familiar with that at all. So what about Gypsy?

[40:00] Ben Rimalower: Nope.

[40:02] Nancy Dussault: Um, Karen has done it.

[40:04] Ben Rimalower: Sure.

[40:04] Nancy Dussault: I was asked to do it, I'm gonna say ten years ago. Maybe it was fifteen for all I know, but I thought I can't do it, it's too late. Too late. Because I just thought I really I don't know if my voice would like it.

[40:20] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[40:21] Nancy Dussault: And it's a long show, you know, it's like almost three hours.

[40:24] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, that's right.

[40:25] Nancy Dussault: She never stopped, so I never I was always curious about doing it, but I don't know if I thought I would have been in it.

[40:32] Ben Rimalower: Oh, I bet you would have been good.

[40:35] Nancy Dussault: Um, I know you did Bells Are Ringing.

[40:37] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[40:38] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. I did that out here. That was fun too.

[40:41] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[40:42] Nancy Dussault: That show too. Yeah. Did you ever do Funny Girl?

[40:47] Ben Rimalower: No.

[40:47] Nancy Dussault: I auditioned for the Road Company.

[40:49] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[40:49] Nancy Dussault: The initial Road Company, but I didn't get it. No.

[40:54] Ben Rimalower: Hmm.

[40:55] Nancy Dussault: But you know, the recent act I did, which was called My Life Upon the Wicked Stage, I did do I did a medley at the end, which I said was a salute to Summer Stock.

[41:07] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[41:07] Nancy Dussault: Plus it was every show I had ever done. And to put this sucker together, I think it was a minimum of twelve minutes long. And my pianist, Christopher Marlowe.

[41:22] Ben Rimalower: Oh, sure.

[41:23] Nancy Dussault: Is brilliant. He said, I have to have some sense of a story in order to remember everything. And then my husband and I, I had all these shows written on cards. I had the title of the show and then the song from the show. And we had them spread out all over.

[41:40] Ben Rimalower: Oh God.

[41:42] Nancy Dussault: But it was an amazing medley. I bet. And people really responded to it, so it was really fun. And it was fun going through like we're doing all the different shows I'd done. I went, Jesus. Because you know, while I was still in college, I did summer stock for two years.

[42:03] Ben Rimalower: Uh huh.

[42:03] Nancy Dussault: Where, you know, so already I knew 12, 15 shows. And you know, I was let me think I was seventeen.

[42:13] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[42:13] Nancy Dussault: The first summer I did summer stock. And I laughed because that was underage. So the stage managers were always warning everybody to stay away from me that I was GOP.

[42:25] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[42:27] Nancy Dussault: And I remember they took me out of we had to go down into Chicago because this company I was working for was right outside of Evanston, Illinois. And so we were into Chicago performing, doing excerpts for I'm not sure what for a big event. And then afterwards there was a party and everything, and I remember the stage both stage managers came in and said, Get out of here, Nancy. You have to go to your room now.

[42:52] Ben Rimalower: Oh God.

[42:57] Nancy Dussault: The next summer I was 18 and I could do what I wanted.

[43:01] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[43:02] Nancy Dussault: But then the next summer we had graduated. I was 19 and I went off to Cohasset, Massachusetts to do summer stock, and I was dancing and singing.

[43:17] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[43:18] Nancy Dussault: And it was in a theater in the round, and as we all this was like the God, third day rehearsal or something. We're all running down the aisle to the stage, and the girl in front of me tripped.

[43:29] Ben Rimalower: Oh no.

[43:29] Nancy Dussault: So I fell, and then people fell on me. And we all got up and continued rehearsal. But the next few days I said, gee, my back hurts. It really hurts. And I kept doing panicking.

[43:47] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[43:47] Nancy Dussault: All the dancing and stuff. Finally, I was in such agony and I couldn't sit down. I couldn't do anything, and I called my who was to be my first husband. I called him, he came up and he had to rent a station wagon so I could lay down.

[44:02] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[44:03] Nancy Dussault: And he took me to a doctor and the doctor did some tests, and he said, I'll always remember this. He said, Oh my darling, you have to go home. He said, You herniated a couple of discs in your back and you have a crack in your spine, so you have to go lie down.

[44:21] Ben Rimalower: Oh God.

[44:21] Nancy Dussault: Which being so young and my first, you know, big time job. They had to build a special wooden seat to put in the plane seat, and I went home. And my parents put a twin bed mattress on the floor in the living room in front of the TV, and there I was for like nine, ten months.

[44:48] Ben Rimalower: Oh God.

[44:49] Nancy Dussault: And my dad was a navy man, so he took me to the naval hospital, and they didn't, you know, like they said, they didn't operate then, they didn't do back operations.

[44:58] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[44:59] Nancy Dussault: Too risky. So they let me have two aspirin at night. So I really didn't feel good. I mean, I really was in pain.

[45:12] Ben Rimalower: God.

[45:12] Nancy Dussault: And finally got up and I went back to Northwestern for a few weeks to work with my voice teacher, and then off I went to New York. And arrived when it was pouring rain and moved into a studio apartment with two other girls from Northwestern.

[45:29] Ben Rimalower: Wow. Where was the apartment?

[45:32] Nancy Dussault: Oh God, it was on East, uh, West Sixty Ninth Street, right off the park.

[45:36] Ben Rimalower: Oh, lovely.

[45:37] Nancy Dussault: Well, I guess it wasn't so lovely then.

[45:39] Ben Rimalower: It was fine.

[45:40] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. And then our landlord moved us across the street to a one bedroom, which made a huge difference.

[45:47] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I bet.

[45:49] Nancy Dussault: You know, I pounded the streets and I did an opera workshop. 'Cause I sung with the Chicago Symphony. I'd won a contest when I was at Northwestern. And talk about wishing you had a tape of this. I sang excerpts from Carmen for the Chicago Symphony.

[46:04] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[46:05] Nancy Dussault: But that conductor was in New York during a workshop, so I did that. And I got a job pretty fast. I did The Boyfriend, which had been running off Broadway, and I got that job and then went on the road with it.

[46:26] Ben Rimalower: Oh wow.

[46:26] Nancy Dussault: And then when I came back, I got married and the night of my honeymoon, the same director called me and he said, Can you come in and audition tomorrow? We're gonna we're doing a review off Broadway. And I did. And I went in and sang Over the Rainbow or something, and I got this job at a show called Reversions for Five Plus One.

[46:50] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[46:50] Nancy Dussault: The Reversions really kicked off my career because that's how I got my agent. How I got such publicity from that show. Pew about him already. So, you know, Carl Ryan, everybody came to the show. So many offers from agents it was a joke. So that was pretty good.

[47:17] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[47:17] Nancy Dussault: And then I went to Upstairs at the Downstairs and I auditioned also for the New York City Opera. They were doing Street Scene and oh yeah. And they said, we need a girl that looks 16. And their pianist I had worked with in stock is the pianist. So he recommended me and I went and got the job and I did two or three shows, lighter ones with the New York City Opera, Mikado and that and one other show.

[47:27] Ben Rimalower: Street Scene.

[47:52] Nancy Dussault: Yeah, Street Scene. And they had me come in and audition every few months because they were just about to bump me up to more serious roles at the opera company when I said no.

[48:06] Ben Rimalower: No.

[48:06] Nancy Dussault: I wanted to be a Broadway.

[48:10] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, but you knew that you could do that.

[48:16] Nancy Dussault: Yeah.

[48:16] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was doing Upstairs and the Downstairs as I was auditioning and rehearsing for the New York City Opera. So I was doing all kinds of crazy jobs. I was lucky.

[48:17] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[48:17] Nancy Dussault: And you were right.

[48:29] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[48:30] Nancy Dussault: Lucky. I mean, today the business is so different.

[48:33] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[48:34] Nancy Dussault: One, there's so many more people that want to do it. University has a music theater program. And, you know, your chances of being noticed are less. I mean, when we started, me and Karen, I mean, we w my first serious Broadway audition was for the chorus.

[48:58] Ben Rimalower: Uh huh.

[48:58] Nancy Dussault: And I remember I did it three times and I went and I couldn't understand because I didn't understand anything. I thought one audition I went to, I went, Why is everyone so old? And they were, they were more character types, but that's what the show needed. They didn't need me.

[49:14] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[49:14] Nancy Dussault: But every one of those chorus auditions, the stage manager came up to me and he said, You're really terrific. I'm telling my boss about you. We'll be seeing you again. You know, so I got phenomenal feedback.

[49:29] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[49:30] Nancy Dussault: And eventually it all paid off.

[49:33] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, really.

[49:34] Nancy Dussault: I mean, if I'd had my druthers, and the business had stayed kind of as it was when I started, I would never have gone to LA.

[49:42] Ben Rimalower: No.

[49:43] Nancy Dussault: I loved my life in New York. I love the people I worked with. I like my life and the business. But my agent and manager, my father was my manager, he said, you know what's happening now. You have to come out here and get on television.

[50:03] Ben Rimalower: Because even in summer stock, they need people who've been on television to drum up business.

[50:08] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. It's not enough that you're up for a Tony and you did this and that. It's not enough. They need people that they have seen on television. And that was another lucky break.

[50:20] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[50:21] Nancy Dussault: I came out and I got Too Close for Comfort right away.

[50:25] Ben Rimalower: Oh wow.

[50:27] Nancy Dussault: And one of the reasons was I think Ted Knight had seen me in Side by Side.

[50:28] Ben Rimalower: Oh wow.

[50:36] Nancy Dussault: I think he and he I was always grateful for this. He read with everybody. He would always come in and read with people, which is really appreciated.

[50:47] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[50:47] Nancy Dussault: You know, rather than just the stage manager or the casting person's assistant. Not that they're terrible, but sure not the same actors.

[51:02] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[51:04] Nancy Dussault: And I used some television after that, yeah.

[51:04] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[51:04] Nancy Dussault: But a lot of talk shows. I would suck for a lot of talk shows around the country after Good Morning America. So that was always fun too. 'Cause I did the they had an AM talk show in LA and one time they were going to Japan. Not sure why, don't remember. The regular hostess couldn't do it, so I got to go to Japan.

[51:30] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[51:31] Nancy Dussault: And we just that was a great experience. And when we checked into our hotel room, Too Close for Comfort was on the television.

[51:41] Ben Rimalower: Oh wow.

[51:42] Nancy Dussault: That was it.

[51:43] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[51:44] Nancy Dussault: God. Crazy, crazy. Why do you think it is, you know, so many I think of like other women who have been these sort of iconic TV moms who came also from Broadway musicals. Florence Henderson, Shirley Jones, Felicia Rashad, I mean Sandy Duncan, Valerie Harper, Linda Lavin, Patty LuPone, Betty Buckley.

[52:05] Nancy Dussault: I mean, it was really like such it's where they got them, it seems. Uh you know, I don't I'm gonna say I bet quite often they were seen by the Hollywood people, they saw the shows they were in and hey, you know, they're really good. We should you know, do something with them. Uh I think it people who have that skill and talent and uh to be in a musical, be a the lead in a show, I I think you're co special.

[52:38] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[52:39] Nancy Dussault: Uh very special. Come along every two minutes. Sandy Duncan's a good friend too.

[52:45] Ben Rimalower: Oh yeah.

[52:46] Nancy Dussault: Uh we were just in New York for a very quick four or five days, and our whole purpose of going to New York was to see friends. So we had we saw Sandy and Don, and I worked with Sandy when she I'm gonna say I don't know how old she was. Fifteen, sixteen.

[53:05] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[53:05] Nancy Dussault: Oh, I was out I was in Texas in Houston, dude, not Dallas, dueling um South Pacific. Oh and she was in that. And then later when I did Carousel at City Center, she was in that too. And Finn's Rainbow that I did there, she was in that too. Just like a young dancing girl.

[53:25] Ben Rimalower: She had l she had parts in uh carousel.

[53:28] Nancy Dussault: She played the daughter.

[53:29] Ben Rimalower: Oh, sure, yeah.

[53:30] Nancy Dussault: And uh the same in uh what we were just talking about. Phineas Rainbow.

[53:36] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[53:38] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. So we have a long history together, and uh she's a very gifted woman.

[53:47] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[53:47] Nancy Dussault: And my husband directed her in a play. So uh yeah, she's I'm glad I know her.

[53:53] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[53:54] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. She always kind of picked and chose what she wanted to do. You know, sh uh I admired that about her.

[54:01] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[54:02] Nancy Dussault: And I'm sorry I never saw her in Chicago because I heard she was people say she was one of the best Roxy's ever.

[54:08] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[54:09] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. Boy, I believe that.

[54:10] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[54:12] Nancy Dussault: So God. Where are there any things on Broadway that could still get you back today, do you think no?

[54:21] Ben Rimalower: No.

[54:22] Nancy Dussault: No. I haven't seen I ha I have to confess, I haven't seen that much.

[54:26] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[54:26] Nancy Dussault: The one I hadn't seen, I haven't seen that I wish I had was the one Victoria Clark is in.

[54:32] Ben Rimalower: Oh yeah, Camellia Kimbo, sure.

[54:34] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. Uh but when I look back, I thought, gee, were there many shows that I could have been in?

[54:41] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[54:42] Nancy Dussault: Uh and I'm not so sure there were.

[54:45] Ben Rimalower: I mean, what about like Hello Dolly and Mame and stuff? Would those never come up for you?

[54:49] Nancy Dussault: Oh, yeah.

[54:51] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[54:51] Nancy Dussault: I bet you were a great man.

[54:53] Ben Rimalower: I was friends with Jerry Herman.

[54:54] Nancy Dussault: I said, this was the most fun to do a part like this and even have a special beat it gun for the curtain call.

[55:02] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[55:04] Nancy Dussault: Uh you know, my friend Juliette Prouse, I've mentioned she did make a lot.

[55:09] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[55:10] Nancy Dussault: And uh they were always smaller companies, smaller places. But when I did it in Pittsburgh, uh they had a huge course.

[55:19] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[55:19] Nancy Dussault: Singers and dancers.

[55:21] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[55:21] Nancy Dussault: And the and they got all the costumes for me from Bob Mackey. They agreed to do that, and I would furnish all my shoes.

[55:30] Ben Rimalower: Perfect.

[55:30] Nancy Dussault: Good deal.

[55:32] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, it was.

[55:32] Nancy Dussault: I saw I show up in Pittsburgh with uh 17 pair of shoes for all the up, whatever. And after one long run through dueling that, I I put it back to four pair of shoes.

[55:43] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[55:44] Nancy Dussault: But but they I mean when they did the hello the big number where they for Dolly, I was so far off stage because the lineup of guys was so long.

[55:54] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[55:54] Nancy Dussault: I had to run like a for meme, I had to quote Dolly.

[55:58] Ben Rimalower: Good god, Nancy.

[55:59] Nancy Dussault: Well, it's a similar song.

[56:00] Ben Rimalower: It's a similar song.

[56:01] Nancy Dussault: Yeah. Uh run like crazy to get in place.

[56:05] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[56:05] Nancy Dussault: I I get very friendly with a lot of the kids in the course, and I'm still friendly with the woman who directed it.

[56:12] Ben Rimalower: Um the fun about doing that show was again, I think we had nine days to rehearse it.

[56:18] Nancy Dussault: Yeah.

[56:19] Ben Rimalower: So the the woman, Diana Boffer Brewer, called me and she said, Can you get a video of it and learn as much of the choreography as you can ahead of time?

[56:32] Nancy Dussault: So there are those people all over the country, you know, who have videos of things. And I tracked one down, and I'd go in our little den in our house and put it on, and I did.

[56:41] Ben Rimalower: I learned every dance number, I learned the whole show.

[56:45] Nancy Dussault: I mean, gold.

[56:47] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[56:48] Nancy Dussault: Which uh thank God, you know, I I did that.

[56:52] Ben Rimalower: Uh but later, every summer my husband and I, and I don't know how many years later, it's gotta be a minimum of eight.

[57:03] Nancy Dussault: We went down to Florida.

[57:04] Ben Rimalower: Uh Ann Rinking had a uh summer camp down there.

[57:07] Nancy Dussault: Yeah.

[57:08] Ben Rimalower: Uh Broadway Theater project.

[57:11] Nancy Dussault: And uh we went down there to teach.

[57:13] Ben Rimalower: And uh now, of course I'm trying to think of this actor's name, Handsome Double.

[57:19] Nancy Dussault: He was in the full Monty, Patrick Wilson.

[57:22] Ben Rimalower: Yes, good for you.

[57:26] Nancy Dussault: But he came down as a guest to work with the kids, and you know, we all went out to lunch and I introduced myself.

[57:32] Ben Rimalower: Hello, I'm Asian, and he said, Don't you remember me?

[57:37] Nancy Dussault: And I I knew he looked vaguely familiar, but I said, I I don't.

[57:41] Ben Rimalower: He said, I held your right cheek when you were singing in Maine.

[57:50] Nancy Dussault: Oh, that's adorable.

[57:52] Ben Rimalower: I mean, and back to the meme itself.

[57:55] Nancy Dussault: I I was talking to all the dancers, and I said, My God, I said, Where are you studying here? Because they were outstanding.

[58:01] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[58:03] Nancy Dussault: And they mentioned the name of their teacher, and I gasped.

[58:09] Ben Rimalower: And I said, That was our car choreographer when I did two that two summers of Summerstock.

[58:15] Nancy Dussault: Oh, wow.

[58:17] Ben Rimalower: So I called and invited him to the opening.

[58:20] Nancy Dussault: We went to the party and danced, and I thought this is so special.

[58:20] Ben Rimalower: So special.

[58:39] Nancy Dussault: It was it was great.

[58:42] Ben Rimalower: Okay, ask me about other shows I haven't done.

[58:46] Nancy Dussault: Um, you know what I wanted to pass on a compliment to you, because um a friend of mine saw you in Into the Woods, and he said that you were the only witch he saw that really reveled in the rapping, and that he felt that you took it to the full hip hop, like it was like Hamilton, you know, 30 years earlier.

[59:07] Ben Rimalower: Oh, really?

[59:07] Nancy Dussault: Because you know uh this will show my ignorance. I never realized, and they never mentioned it to me going into the show that that was considered a rap.

[59:19] Ben Rimalower: Uh because later when I was I was reading about Ellen Foley, yeah, and she that's what she did.

[59:25] Nancy Dussault: I mean, she was that kind of a singer, she could do all that. That was part of her talents and gifts.

[59:31] Ben Rimalower: Uh but no one ever said that to me, so I'm really happy he felt you pulled it off.

[59:36] Nancy Dussault: You know, you're like those um in the was it the Warner Brothers cartoons where they'd go off the cliff and they'd float in midair until someone showed them the gravity book, right?

[59:46] Ben Rimalower: You didn't know you could rap.

[59:48] Nancy Dussault: When I did the final dress for Into the Woods, I did it at 150%. I mean Le Pine was just laughing.

[1:00:00] Ben Rimalower: He just started laughing.

[1:00:02] Nancy Dussault: He said, oh my God, what hit this girl?

[1:00:05] Ben Rimalower: That's so wonderful.

[1:00:07] Nancy Dussault: Uh I was so excited to be there and be doing it. But yeah I'd flattered that he thought I was a good rapper.

[1:00:14] Ben Rimalower: Yeah well my friend said it was of he saw them all. He saw you and Bernadette and Felicia and Betsy Joslin and I don't know if he saw Allen Foley but he definitely said you were the best rapper he saw and um now now it's uh actual rap happens all the time on Broadway so you were ahead of your time.

[1:00:30] Nancy Dussault: Oh good yeah.

[1:00:31] Ben Rimalower: Hamilton we've seen twice.

[1:00:33] Nancy Dussault: I just I could see it over and over again.

[1:00:34] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:00:36] Nancy Dussault: Me too.

[1:00:36] Ben Rimalower: Have you seen a new Marilee?

[1:00:38] Nancy Dussault: I saw it at New York Theater Workshop last year.

[1:00:41] Ben Rimalower: I'm going to see it uh in uh December uh on Broadway.

[1:00:44] Nancy Dussault: I'm excited for that.

[1:00:46] Ben Rimalower: Yeah because I I'm so curious about it uh because the few people I've heard from who have seen it are so moved by it.

[1:00:57] Nancy Dussault: Yeah and just can't get over the impact of it.

[1:01:01] Ben Rimalower: And I thought God there you know there was it was always acknowledged that the music was fantastic.

[1:01:05] Nancy Dussault: Yeah but that it just didn't work.

[1:01:07] Ben Rimalower: It was as simple as that.

[1:01:08] Nancy Dussault: So curious what makes this production so different uh I'm curious too I don't know that I could put it in words, you know.

[1:01:16] Ben Rimalower: For me, it doesn't seem that different.

[1:01:18] Nancy Dussault: It just seems like maybe audiences have caught up with it, you know.

[1:01:23] Ben Rimalower: But in a way, no, okay.

[1:01:25] Nancy Dussault: I I will, Nancy.

[1:01:26] Ben Rimalower: You know, I think in some ways your time in Into the Woods was really the turning point for all of that, where Sondheim was maybe transitioning from being the sort of rebel, you know, uh outsider in musical theater to becoming really, you know, the acknowledged master in the mainstream.

[1:01:46] Nancy Dussault: And I don't know how to talk.

[1:01:50] Ben Rimalower: Well, probably, I mean, that seems to be the case.

[1:01:52] Nancy Dussault: But you know, I you you are you are that uh without the without the unability to talk because you've been so generous talking to me like this.

[1:02:01] Ben Rimalower: It's so wonderful.

[1:02:03] Nancy Dussault: This is really fun.

[1:02:04] Ben Rimalower: And I will listen, I want to listen to all of your thank you.

[1:02:07] Nancy Dussault: Well, I because they're they're interesting.

[1:02:10] Ben Rimalower: I really appreciate that.

[1:02:11] Nancy Dussault: And I I'm so thrilled that you gave me this this conversation, and I will um send it to you and I'll follow up with you after I see Marilee to let you know how I think uh the scoop.

[1:02:21] Ben Rimalower: But uh yeah, and and please let me know your thoughts when you listen to more of the podcast.

[1:02:25] Nancy Dussault: It it's so wonderful to get your take.

[1:02:27] Ben Rimalower: You know, and one last thing about into the woods, please.

[1:02:29] Nancy Dussault: You know, when I came into it, everybody had been doing it a long time.

[1:02:33] Ben Rimalower: Uh and everybody went home after the show.

[1:02:36] Nancy Dussault: No, I was in New York alone. My husband was in LA, though he came in often, yeah.

[1:02:40] Ben Rimalower: Uh, and I couldn't get anyone to go out afterwards.

[1:02:45] Nancy Dussault: Uh, because all my career uh in the theater, I was always married, and I always went straight home.

[1:02:52] Ben Rimalower: I did the same thing, yeah, except one occasion.

[1:02:55] Nancy Dussault: Yeah.

[1:02:55] Ben Rimalower: Uh so Miren was the one.

[1:02:58] Nancy Dussault: Oh she finally said, Come on, honey.

[1:03:02] Ben Rimalower: And then she she got a couple of the other ladies, Joy Franz be wanted some others, and we would we would go out periodically.

[1:03:09] Nancy Dussault: Love that.

[1:03:09] Ben Rimalower: Uh, and it was at that point during that show that Marin told me one night, he said, you know, Sondheim said, if I would lose some weight, uh, he had a show in mind for me.

[1:03:22] Nancy Dussault: Wow.

[1:03:22] Ben Rimalower: Which was passion.

[1:03:23] Nancy Dussault: And Maren wasn't fat by any means.

[1:03:27] Ben Rimalower: But she was a she was a Midwestern kind of party.

[1:03:32] Nancy Dussault: She liked her beard.

[1:03:33] Ben Rimalower: But she always swam.

[1:03:35] Nancy Dussault: Yeah.

[1:03:36] Ben Rimalower: And I don't I don't know what all she did, but she lost the weight, and uh there she was.

[1:03:38] Nancy Dussault: There she was.

[1:03:46] Ben Rimalower: Naked.

[1:03:47] Nancy Dussault: Naked, naked and beautiful.

[1:03:49] Ben Rimalower: Um I loved her.

[1:03:50] Nancy Dussault: I loved it.

[1:03:52] Ben Rimalower: God.

[1:03:52] Nancy Dussault: And then right after that, she met Jason, and uh and the last time I sang in New York, she came, and I sang Stay With Me.

[1:04:03] Ben Rimalower: Oh, wow.

[1:04:06] Nancy Dussault: Uh people really reacted to that because she was well enough at that point to go out.

[1:04:13] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:04:14] Nancy Dussault: You know, Jason was working.

[1:04:15] Ben Rimalower: See, he couldn't be there, but she uh I think about her a lot.

[1:04:20] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, your Broadway daughter.

[1:04:22] Nancy Dussault: Yeah, gone too soon.

[1:04:24] Ben Rimalower: Beautiful talent.

[1:04:25] Nancy Dussault: But you know what?

[1:04:26] Ben Rimalower: She she was in the footsteps of the beautiful talent that you have, and we're so happy you're with us still.

[1:04:31] Nancy Dussault: Thank you.

[1:04:32] Ben Rimalower: Yep, so go on.

[1:04:33] Nancy Dussault: Keep going.

[1:04:34] Ben Rimalower: I'm telling you, you don't look a bit different.

[1:04:36] Nancy Dussault: It's wonderful to see you.

[1:04:42] Ben Rimalower: Thank you for listening to Giants in the Sky, how Sondheim and Le Pine went into the woods on the Broadway Podcast Network.

[1:04:49] Nancy Dussault: Look out for episode 36 with Steve Sakalod, assistant to the set designer.