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[0:01] Ben Rimalower: Welcome to Giants in the Sky. How Sondheim and Lapine went Into the Woods. With me, Ben Rimalower. Today's guest, Dana Ivey, the witch in the first reading at Playwrights Horizons.

[0:12] Dana Ivey: Once upon a time...

[0:16] Dana Ivey: I played the witch in the first reading of Into the Woods at Playwrights Horizons. I created the roles of Yvonne and Naomi in the original Broadway production of Sondheim and Lapine's Sunday in the Park with George, for which I received a Tony nomination as Best Featured Actress in a Musical. I also later played Madame Armfelt in the ACT production of A Little Night Music. I originated the title role in Driving Miss Daisy and have been nominated for a total of five Tony Awards for an expansive Broadway career, including The Importance of Being Earnest, Butley, The Rivals, Henry IV, A Day in the Death of Joe Egg, Major Barbara, Waiting in the Wings, Indiscretions, The Marriage of Figaro, Pack of Lies, Heartbreak House, Present Laughter, and Macbeth, winning the Drama Desk Award for both The Last Night of Ballyhoo and Sex and Longing. My innumerable film and television credits run the gamut from Sex and the City to The Color Purple.

[1:13] Ben Rimalower: I'm especially grateful to you and one of your compatriots in the very first reading of Into the Woods, Christine Estabrook, because I understand that you did something that was extremely limited in time, you know, essentially 40 years ago. So to get to talk to you about it in the full context of your work with Sondheim and Lapine is really such a boon for all the listeners of this podcast and selfishly myself as well. And so, you know, of course, you're one of the most lauded and veteran stars of the American theater doing so much work and so many great plays. But as far as I knew, Sunday in the Park with George was really unique as a musical theater credit that you had. And I'm curious, was it your first time doing a musical at all?

[2:00] Dana Ivey: No. No, I had done musicals in high school and college in summer. When I first started out at the Front Street Theater, I did several musicals. I grew up in choirs singing in my teenage years and college. So, no, it wasn't the first time I did a musical.

[2:38] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, well, that I suppose is not surprising, because I know from James Lapine's wonderful book, Putting It Together, about the making of Sunday in the Park with George, that despite you not being known for musicals, that you were somebody they felt had a musical ease coming into what's obviously a very difficult and complicated score. Was that your experience?

[3:01] Dana Ivey: Well, I was. Yeah, I was comfortable. I was very comfortable. I have a very musical background. I mean, I took everything. So, no, it was just a play with music, you know, and the music is difficult and can be daunting. But that never stopped any person who wants to do theater from doing anything. So, you know, that's just how to do it. That's all.

[3:30] Ben Rimalower: And were you already sort of well-versed in the world of Stephen Sondheim? Were you a fan of his previous shows before Sunday?

[3:38] Dana Ivey: I had seen one or two. Obviously, I knew who he was. Yeah, I have to say that I thought that the idea of doing a Stephen Sondheim musical on Broadway would be the epitome, the apex of my career to create a role in a Stephen Sondheim musical was kind of like there just doesn't get anything better than that.

[3:57] Ben Rimalower: Well, one of many apexes now in retrospect, if that's a thing. But had you auditioned for musicals or was it something that was really just kind of unique?

[4:14] Dana Ivey: This is an unusual situation. I had actually auditioned for it when it was done as the first act at Playwrights Horizons, and they only did the first act there on Sunday. And I had auditioned for that and didn't get it. And so moved on. I was doing many other things. I may have auditioned for this the second time around. I don't remember. I remember that I was doing maybe I didn't because I was doing something else at the time and I was not going to be available. And so then whatever I was doing didn't happen or ended. And then I got a call to come in and audition again.

[5:07] Dana Ivey: Yes, the way that sort of worked. And that was very sort of All About Eve. I got a call. They sent me the material and I worked on it and went in, I guess, the next day or two days later at their lunchtime and auditioned. There were maybe two or three of us auditioning at the time. This is, you know, as you one of your questions was the rehearsals had already started. A friend of mine was just having trouble with the music, I think. And so we're replacing her. So several of us were called in to audition a week or two into rehearsals. And I did that and got a call and started the next day.

[5:50] Ben Rimalower: Now, I know from Lapine's book and Broadway legend that there were so many changes made in not just the rehearsal process, but in the previews on Broadway. Was the material that you were auditioning with ultimately, did you sing?

[6:06] Dana Ivey: It pretty much stayed the same. It was the song that I sang with, oh dear...

[6:13] Dana Ivey: With Charles Kimbrough.

[6:14] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[6:15] Dana Ivey: No Life. Yes. That was pretty much, I think that was pretty much there. I think that's what I auditioned with, that song and the scene that is part of that.

[6:27] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Yeah. That, you know, we all know so well from that incredible video capture of all of you in that original production. It's one of those unique situations where we not only are familiar with the cast recording, but we remember your performances in the book scenes.

[6:45] Dana Ivey: Yes.

[6:47] Ben Rimalower: So probably a difficult thing for people that are so familiar with it to then when they do the show, have to, you know, get out of their head.

[6:56] Dana Ivey: Yeah.

[6:57] Ben Rimalower: That wasn't your problem because it was brand new. It was coming together. In Lapine's book, he talks very frankly and speaks with all the many actors and collaborators very frankly about the tension and anxiety people felt as the show was, you know, sort of coming together at the 11th hour with new material. But in the book, you're described, you describe yourself as literally a happy camper. Is that how you felt at the time?

[7:29] Dana Ivey: Absolutely. I was not aware, particularly of what you describe, you know, tensions that tear people apart or anything. No, I was familiar with the fact that shows underwent, you know, stresses and problems during, certainly during rehearsals and previews. And indeed the previews were really exhausting because we were rehearsing every day and performing at night and things were changing, new songs were coming in. Two of the songs didn't come in until a week before we opened, but that was Bernadette, she had to deal with that. They weren't the group things. So, no, I was a happy camper. I was having a wonderful time. It was very difficult. At one point during the previews, during a rehearsal, I nearly fainted.

I was just, because we were wearing our corsets and rehearsal skirts for the rehearsals as well on the rake stage and one time I just sort of got exhausted. I nearly fainted. So it was, it was physically daunting, but for me, it was a joyous experience. And so I didn't, I was not aware of people, you know, having these tensions that are discussed.

[8:47] Ben Rimalower: How wonderful. I mean, obviously you had created roles in a number of original, you know, straight pieces for the theatre and I'm certain there were changes in those processes as well. But I imagine that it's just the extra element of when the changes that are coming in are musical and it's not just a matter of learning lines that it really is extra taxing.

[9:12] Dana Ivey: Exactly, exactly. But, you know, if you have musicianship and everybody should if they're in a musical, you know, then it's something that you can take on board and you have to be prepared. It's a, you know, it's something that the theatre requires is to have to, is to be flexible and to have a sense of improv if you have to, to just to find the material, that's all.

[9:38] Ben Rimalower: And what about actually then doing the show and sustaining that performance eight shows a week? Did that feel different to you over the course of the run than in the previous theatre that you'd done?

[9:50] Dana Ivey: I don't remember it as being particularly different. I continued to take voice lessons, which I didn't normally do all during the show and I must say my voice, you know, improved by having to use it singing wise, eight times a week. But it was such a, for me, it was just a joy and a pleasure to be a part of. Now, mind you, obviously, there were days when you just go, I don't want to do it again. I'm tired, whatever. But I remember it just as being a thrill to be a part of and that pretty much stayed with me.

[10:30] Dana Ivey: And like any show that's long running, you have to, you just learn to make it, keep it going and find ways to make it fresh. And, you know, that's part of what being an actor is anyway, so.

[10:42] Ben Rimalower: Yes, yes. And did that experience evolve in terms of the kind of snowball of momentum, all those New York Times features on the show and ultimately the Pulitzer Prize? Did that change what the audience reaction was, the experience backstage?

[11:00] Dana Ivey: I don't remember it changing anything backstage or, or frankly, I don't quite remember anything about the audience response. And I was not, I don't read reviews. And I wasn't, I mean, I knew, of course, that it got some awards and that sort of thing. But no, I'm not aware of that, of that changing the way people came to see the show, although I did have some.

[11:25] Dana Ivey: I had a wonderful time working on the reading at Playwrights Horizons. It was such a unique experience for me, stepping into the world of musical theater, which I hadn't done in a while.

[11:55] Dana Ivey: The collaboration with Sondheim and Lapine was truly special. Their vision and creativity brought the material to life in a way that was both challenging and exhilarating.

[12:25] Dana Ivey: I remember feeling a sense of freedom in exploring the character of the Witch. It was a role that allowed me to delve into the complexities of the character, and I found that incredibly rewarding.

[12:35] Dana Ivey: The rehearsal process was filled with discovery. I loved how James Lapine encouraged us to experiment with our interpretations, pushing us to find new layers in the material.

[12:45] Dana Ivey: There was a moment during rehearsals when everything clicked for me. I felt a deep connection to the music and the story, and it was a joy to share that with the cast.

[12:55] Dana Ivey: I also appreciated the camaraderie among the cast members. Everyone was so supportive, and it created an environment where we could all thrive creatively.

[13:05] Dana Ivey: I remember one particular rehearsal where we were working on the Witch's Rap. It was a challenging piece, but the energy in the room was electric.

[13:15] Dana Ivey: I felt like we were all in it together, pushing each other to deliver our best performances. It was a beautiful experience of collaboration.

[13:25] Dana Ivey: The music itself was a revelation. Sondheim's score is so intricate and layered, and I found myself constantly discovering new nuances in the melodies and lyrics.

[13:35] Dana Ivey: I loved the way he wrote for the Witch. There was a depth to the character that I hadn't encountered before, and it was thrilling to explore that in rehearsal.

[13:45] Dana Ivey: I also enjoyed the challenge of balancing the darker elements of the character with moments of vulnerability. It made for a rich and dynamic performance.

[13:55] Dana Ivey: Overall, the experience was a highlight of my career. I felt so fortunate to be part of such an iconic piece of theater.

[14:05] Dana Ivey: I remember watching the original production on Broadway and being blown away by the performances. It was surreal to be part of that world myself.

[14:15] Dana Ivey: The Witch's transformation is such a pivotal moment in the story, and I loved being able to bring my own interpretation to that arc.

[14:25] Dana Ivey: I think the collaboration with Sondheim and Lapine really allowed me to find my voice in the role. It was a transformative experience for me as an artist.

[14:35] Dana Ivey: I also appreciated the way the material challenged me as a performer. It pushed me to grow and evolve in ways I hadn't anticipated.

[14:45] Dana Ivey: I remember feeling a sense of pride in being part of a project that had such a lasting impact on musical theater.

[14:55] Dana Ivey: The legacy of Into the Woods is undeniable, and I felt honored to contribute to that in my own way.

[15:05] Dana Ivey: I think the themes of the show resonate deeply with audiences, and it's a privilege to be part of that conversation.

[15:15] Dana Ivey: I look forward to continuing to explore new roles and projects that challenge me as an artist.

[15:25] Dana Ivey: Thank you for having me on the podcast. It's been a pleasure to share my experiences with you.

[15:35] Dana Ivey: I hope listeners find inspiration in the stories we tell through musical theater.

[15:45] Dana Ivey: It's a powerful medium that can connect us all in profound ways.

[15:55] Dana Ivey: Thank you again for this opportunity to reflect on my journey.

[16:05] Dana Ivey: I truly appreciate it.

[16:15] Ben Rimalower: It's kind of amazing, yeah.

[16:29] Ben Rimalower: Absolutely. I assume eventually you did see the show on Broadway.

[16:33] Dana Ivey: Sure, of course I did. Yes, yes.

[16:36] Ben Rimalower: And, and were you a fan of the show? What was your...

[16:41] Dana Ivey: Oh, yes. I loved it, you know. And I, you know, and I love the witch kind of queen transformation that Bernadette did.

[16:50] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[16:51] Dana Ivey: And I love the wolf song. I just thought that was so great. I just had a ball. Yeah, I loved it.

[16:58] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Now I know that you did Little Abner at Encores! years later. And is that right?

[17:07] Dana Ivey: Yeah.

[17:08] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. And I think you did Pippin in regional theater.

[17:12] Dana Ivey: Yes, out in Zag Harbor.

[17:14] Ben Rimalower: Perfect. Well, that's the good kind of regional. Very, very close.

[17:19] Dana Ivey: Exactly.

[17:22] Ben Rimalower: But were there other musicals that you considered over the years? I mean, I could certainly see you in a number of other Sondheim roles. Was that ever in your purview?

[17:31] Dana Ivey: I did do just several. When was it? 2015. I did Little Night Music out in San Francisco for the, for ART that Mark Lamos directed.

[17:42] Ben Rimalower: Oh, that ACT production with Karen Ziemba as Desiree?

[17:45] Dana Ivey: Yes, I was Madame Armfeld, yeah.

[17:47] Ben Rimalower: Now I'm going to be on a mission to find a recording of that.

[17:51] Dana Ivey: I don't know if they ever, it was a beautiful production. I mean, I thought, well, I love most, I love almost everything I do.

[17:59] Dana Ivey: I've never been in anything that I really hated except one thing when I was on tour when I was very young.

[18:04] Dana Ivey: And I loathe doing it so much that I would get a headache every night because I hated it.

[18:09] Dana Ivey: But no, I love doing it. And it was, I became really good friends with some people in the cast. And it was, I love working with Mark Lamos.

[18:19] Dana Ivey: And I wish they had made a recording or a video of it, but I don't think they did.

[18:25] Ben Rimalower: Mark seems like an ideal director for that piece.

[18:28] Dana Ivey: He's a wonderful director. I've done five, five shows with him. And I just love him as a director.

[18:35] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. All right. Well, if I, if I find anything in the bowels of the internet, I will absolutely send it over to you.

[18:43] Dana Ivey: But I'm sure you are divine without it. I don't need to even see it to know that.

[18:48] Dana Ivey: And I guess it's just lost to history what you must have been like in The Witch's Rap, but I'm sure that was a hoot too.

[18:56] Dana Ivey: Somewhere in the ether.

[18:59] Ben Rimalower: Is there anything else that you would want to share with me and the listeners from that process or the overall process with Sondheim and Lapine on Sunday in the Park?

[19:09] Dana Ivey: Gosh, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I have things that I have long known or felt and talked about with friends.

[19:22] Dana Ivey: But certainly, I think that the thing one of the things I remember from the rehearsal process is that the wonderful coming together at the end with Singing Sunday with all of us walking in the park.

[19:38] Dana Ivey: James tried many different formulations of that with people doing different things.

[19:46] Dana Ivey: And he did it once in a way that ultimately ended up to be the way we did it.

[19:51] Dana Ivey: And when we did it that day in rehearsal, the very first time I got real chill bumps and I thought, this is it.

[19:58] Dana Ivey: This is the way this is to do this. This is perfection.

[20:02] Dana Ivey: And then he didn't seem to know that he kept trying with other things.

[20:06] Dana Ivey: I think, gosh, why doesn't he do it the way it's supposed to be? I know the way it's supposed to be. It gave me chill bumps.

[20:13] Dana Ivey: He finally came back to it. And that's the way it ended up in the show.

[20:18] Dana Ivey: And I thought, well, my truth meter told me a couple of weeks ago that this is the way it was supposed to be.

[20:23] Dana Ivey: I'm so glad we got back to it because it worked out just so well, just so well.

[20:29] Dana Ivey: So I just remember feeling that so much having we touched on it, but then we moved on.

[20:34] Dana Ivey: It was like, no, no, hold on. That's the way to do that.

[20:38] Dana Ivey: So that's just one of my one of my memories.

[20:44] Dana Ivey: And when we first started rehearsals, the cast was extremely welcoming to me.

[20:49] Dana Ivey: You know, they'd already been in rehearsal. And when we got to singing, I taught up there.

[20:57] Dana Ivey: I thought up here. I when I, you know, I start to think when I have my line comes in quite early and I sang it out.

[21:11] Dana Ivey: Are you talking about it's hot and it's monotonous? Yeah, it is monotonous.

[21:15] Dana Ivey: It's very hard. And so but I sang it because when I was in choir, I was taught you sing out Louise so that they can tell whether you've got the notes right or not.

[21:25] Dana Ivey: And so I sang it and there was sudden shock because the whole cast, when I sang, had all sung it under their breaths.

[21:34] Dana Ivey: I'm going because I think Charlotte had been having trouble with it a little bit.

[21:39] Dana Ivey: So when I sang it out, they all stopped and applauded me because somebody holding down that phrase anyway.

[21:48] Dana Ivey: So it was kind of a nice moment for me. I thought, well, all that choir work paid off.

[21:55] Dana Ivey: How to sing out and and own it, even if it's wrong, you have to do that until you can get it right.

[22:01] Ben Rimalower: Wow. Well, thank you for sharing that. I and the rest of the millions of fans of that piece are certainly happy that you that you did sing out.

[22:13] Dana Ivey: I had a ball. It was it was one of the high points of my my career, I have to say, of course.

[22:18] Ben Rimalower: Of course. Among many and looking forward to the next ones.

[22:25] Dana Ivey: Thank you so much for chatting with me, Dana. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

[22:33] Ben Rimalower: Thank you for listening to Giants in the Sky, how Sondheim and Lapine went into the woods on the Broadway Podcast Network.

[22:48] Dana Ivey: And.