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[0:00] Ben Rimalower: Once upon a time.

[0:06] Ben Rimalower: Broadway Podcast Network presents Giants in the Sky, How Sondheim and Lapine Went Into the Woods with me, Ben Rimalower.

[0:15] Ben Rimalower: Today's guest, Christine Estabrook, who played the Baker's Wife in the reading at Playwrights Horizons.

[0:21] Ben Rimalower: Christine Estabrook played principal roles in the original Broadway productions of Spring Awakening, The Sisters Rosensweig, The Heidi Chronicles, and I'm Not Rappaport, in addition to many other original productions and revivals on and off Broadway, winning the 1988 Drama Desk Award for The Boys Next Door.

[0:41] Ben Rimalower: She's also been a familiar presence on multitudes of television shows, including long runs on Mad Men, Desperate Housewives, and American Horror Story.

[0:53] Christine Estabrook: Thinking back, we were so busy at that time, and I was married to Robert Westenberg.

[1:02] Christine Estabrook: And at that point, it was I don't know when I did it. We didn't write down these things. When was the reading? Do you remember the year?

[1:09] Christine Estabrook: I'm trying to find the ex I know it was 1985. I think it was maybe like the end of the year, like in like December, even.

[1:18] Ben Rimalower: Okay.

[1:18] Christine Estabrook: Which would be 37.

[1:21] Ben Rimalower: Springish.

[1:22] Christine Estabrook: Springish. It could have been spring. It could have even been spring of '86. Um, I know that they did a work. No, because it was '85 because I was still married to Robert Westenberg.

[1:34] Christine Estabrook: Oh, so now you've given me something already. You say you remember nothing, but you've helped.

[1:40] Christine Estabrook: I think that's when we got divorced. Anyway, yeah, there wasn't uh, yeah, he was in, he'd met Steven Sondheim in um Sunday in the Park with George, and he was an understudy to Mandy.

[1:55] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:55] Christine Estabrook: And so at that time, uh he asked me to do this reading and or James Lapine did, or I thought the um coordinating uh person there was uh Ira Weitzman. I don't know, I don't remember.

[2:12] Christine Estabrook: I think it was Ira Weitzman. He's the person that told me that you did it.

[2:18] Ben Rimalower: Oh my gosh.

[2:19] Christine Estabrook: Yes, he was wonderful.

[2:22] Christine Estabrook: No, he was, as I recall, there was a good food table, craft service table. That's all I remember.

[2:28] Christine Estabrook: Wow. But I can I'm sure I'll remember more. I had um Stephen Sondheim played the uh piano for us, the few songs that were written, and James Lapine wanted to see if the text worked, and so we uh I we started reading and Stephen Sondheim would play.

[2:53] Christine Estabrook: Oh, here's a music. It was very informal, and there was bagels and coffee. That's all I cared about.

[3:00] Christine Estabrook: Wow. No, I it I'd met Stephen before because Robert was his the understudy of Mandy in Sunday.

[3:12] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[3:13] Christine Estabrook: So I knew them, but um, you know, you just said, oh sure, I'd love to meet Stephen on another, you know, level. I'd I'd love to do it. I don't sing, but I'd love to do it.

[3:25] Christine Estabrook: So well, they said we know she's a great actor and we want to hear the script read as good as could possibly be read.

[3:32] Ben Rimalower: Oh, that's nice, yeah.

[3:34] Christine Estabrook: What was I doing at that time? I just no, that's '86, '87.

[3:42] Christine Estabrook: Hmm. I we I think I was doing Pastoral. I I don't remember. I was going from show to show to show.

[3:53] Ben Rimalower: But you had worked at Playwrights in um the Durang play. So you you were part of the family there.

[4:00] Christine Estabrook: Yeah.

[4:01] Christine Estabrook: Yeah. Certainly Ira had access to you to your uh at least your phone number because of that yeah um it was during the day I mean late in the day that's how I you know like four o'clock or something.

[4:18] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. Do you remember thinking it was funny or interesting or any anything about the material?

[4:18] Christine Estabrook: I had very mixed feelings about it because I didn't sing and so I knew I would never get the part and so I was just kind of enjoying watching people and wondering if my part worked.

[4:39] Christine Estabrook: Yeah because we got we got such pieces of it of you know that you just kind of spewed it out and expected the powers that were that were to decide whether or not it would be useful because I didn't sing.

[4:57] Christine Estabrook: Yeah but the music seemed good but I think no none of nobody sang in that reading right just like maybe Sondheim sang the songs.

[5:05] Christine Estabrook: I think so that's my recollection of it although I knew it was a musical yeah and he did songs he did I think the witches the into the woods, da da da da da da da da da da da.

[5:19] Christine Estabrook: I think he did that. And him singing it was great. And listening to him play and you know, Into the woods, Into the woods.

[5:30] Ben Rimalower: You know, but then we have to read, and it seemed it seemed less than watching him do his own work.

[5:40] Christine Estabrook: Yeah, I bet.

[5:41] Christine Estabrook: I mean, people have told me, do you remember the song that Robert sang in the show on Broadway as The Wolf called Hello Little Girl? I don't remember it. I never saw it because we just gotten divorced.

[5:52] Christine Estabrook: Yeah. And I didn't want to see it. Because people have said that Sondheim singing that song in the reading was like a dirty old man and that it was the funniest thing.

[6:04] Christine Estabrook: Like people talk about that like very um in awe of Sondheim's vocal performance of the song that it was just dripping with like yeah funniness.

[6:18] Christine Estabrook: Yeah, I don't remember. I don't remember. I see to this day, it shows you that I thought Robert would have in it. I you know, I can't imagine. Maybe that made me feel alienated too.

[6:31] Christine Estabrook: The fact that Robert wasn't there and I was like there and I didn't belong there, you know. I was like going, why am I asked?

[6:39] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[6:40] Christine Estabrook: Yeah, I bet. I mean, although I don't it's hard because I don't know who was in it, but I don't get the feeling they were great big Broadway musical stars.

[6:49] Christine Estabrook: I mean, Bernadette Peters was at that reading, so it's not like it was like Chita Rivera or anything. I mean no, you probably had bigger credits than probably anybody else reading, you know.

[7:00] Christine Estabrook: I think Chip Zien I knew.

[7:02] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, so I think Chip was somewhat established.

[7:04] Christine Estabrook: Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know anybody else.

[7:07] Christine Estabrook: Yeah um yeah do you remember anything about working with James Lapine that day, what he was like?

[7:07] Christine Estabrook: He was you know I knew him back at Yale so I didn't know him as a director or a writer I knew him as a publicity person so I was very familiar with treating him casually I mean because he'd worked when I was at Yale for years well at least three years but I saw him every show we did so because he designed the graphics for the posters.

[7:07] Ben Rimalower: Did he?

[7:07] Christine Estabrook: Yeah that was his um yeah that he did publicity but he was a graphic artist and they used him to design all the the theater posters.

[7:07] Ben Rimalower: Oh yeah he was very nice he was very nice to me and and he said uh basically I think the best uh compliment I could have gotten which is we got what we needed we heard what we needed do you know what I mean so they could it was a stepping stone as far as he was concerned to getting to a better show.

[7:07] Ben Rimalower: Yeah well that that's the point right yeah that's the point that's probably a great advantage though to go into especially a reading where you're feeling insecure you're not a singer to go in feeling very comfortable with the director he's you know.

[7:07] Christine Estabrook: Yeah yeah and having known Steven before you know having met him I wasn't like agog I was just kind of like eating a bagel and hoping I did okay.

[8:47] Ben Rimalower: I love the bagels and it's and you were the Baker's wife.

[8:50] Christine Estabrook: That's so perfect.

[8:51] Christine Estabrook: And no, it's true.

[8:53] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[8:54] Christine Estabrook: Yeah. Do you remember the themes of her trying to get pregnant? Was that still uh in the early version?

[9:01] Christine Estabrook: What her no, I don't think so. No. I think that was too complicated. You know, for that version. I think they were just trying to feel out whether or not it worked.

[9:14] Christine Estabrook: Basically, some things worked, and whether they could add it, probably. I don't remember that at all. Being anything but a tertiary note, you know, it might have been mentioned.

[9:24] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[9:27] Christine Estabrook: Do you remember um uh any of the other songs besides the opening that you sang for me?

[9:36] Christine Estabrook: No, I don't. I just remember being agog at Steven Sondheim singing his own songs. You know, I thought that was so cool.

[9:44] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[9:45] Christine Estabrook: And he accompanied himself very well. You know what I mean? So yeah, I was mesmerized by that.

[9:54] Ben Rimalower: How cool. I mean, wouldn't we all want to be in a room like that and watch him do that?

[10:00] Christine Estabrook: Yeah. And at the time, it seemed like a big deal, but it seemed like you know, work. They just wanted to see, and so it was a work session. It was just a yeah, yeah.

[10:11] Christine Estabrook: It was so cool. When I think back on it, yeah.

[10:15] Christine Estabrook: At the day that day it was just bagels and coffee.

[10:20] Christine Estabrook: With bagels. I think I probably had a show to do that night.

[10:24] Ben Rimalower: Well, listen, it's 37 years ago.

[10:26] Christine Estabrook: Oh, yeah, I know. And what and how many hours were you there for four hours or five hours? I mean, that that's a long time to remember a short afternoon.

[10:36] Christine Estabrook: I don't think we had a rehearsal. I think we just did it.

[10:39] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, so maybe you were just there for two hours.

[10:42] Christine Estabrook: Or three hours, maybe. And I was more interested in bagels and listening to all the people who could really sing. You know, I mean, listening, wondering if they were gonna be in the show, and yeah, you know, it was kind of a lark for me.

[10:57] Christine Estabrook: I don't think I know any other people that would have been in it. I know that um when they did the workshop um uh in '86, some other actresses played some of the smaller parts like Nancy Opel and Joy Franz, but I don't know whether they were in this reading at this early stage.

[11:14] Ben Rimalower: Do you remember working with any of them in it?

[11:17] Christine Estabrook: No, I just remember uh it was a very bare bones cast. It was the baker and his wife, the witch wasn't there, um, the two princes, and um who else? Rapunzel.

[11:33] Christine Estabrook: Yeah, I think must have been there. Uh Little Red Riding Hood and Jack and the Oh yeah, yeah.

[11:41] Christine Estabrook: So sh oh, was the wolf. No, I don't remember.

[11:48] Christine Estabrook: No, I don't remember.

[11:51] Christine Estabrook: Yeah. Because Robert didn't play the wolf in the reading.

[11:58] Christine Estabrook: Yeah. So I I imagine they had somebody else, or maybe James Lapine read, I don't know.

[12:07] Christine Estabrook: Yeah. I don't know, or they hired somebody a somebody that I never knew because you know, this straight acting. If you don't sing, you know a whole different framework of people.

[12:21] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[12:22] Christine Estabrook: Not everybody like Chip Zien did reach between straight plays and and musicals, but you didn't meet the musical people. They were a whole different crowd.

[12:31] Ben Rimalower: I bet.

[12:33] Christine Estabrook: I bet. Yeah, because what everybody meets what at the auditions and when they do shows together.

[12:40] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, and since I didn't do any musicals, I didn't meet them.

[12:44] Christine Estabrook: Well, Into the Woods and Spring Awakening are two pretty big exceptions.

[12:47] Ben Rimalower: Well, this is fascinating. I'm so I'm so glad that you that you talked to me and told me all this good stuff.

[12:53] Christine Estabrook: And um I really I really appreciate it.

[12:59] Ben Rimalower: Thank you for listening to Giants in the Sky, how Sondheim and Lapine went into the woods on the Broadway Podcast Network.

[13:06] Ben Rimalower: Check out episode eight with Jack O'Brien, who is artistic director of the Old Globe Theater in San Diego, where Into the Woods was produced before Broadway.