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[0:14] B*TCH: B*TCH is a long-standing queer music icon who Yahoo Entertainment called a feminist force that the world needs now more than ever.

[0:14] B*TCH: When she released B*TCHCRAFT, her ninth studio album on the legendary label Kill Rock Stars in 2022 with her signature electric violin and lyrical smarts front and center over huge beats and deep synths, B*TCH coined the genre Poet Pop.

[0:23] B*TCH: B*TCH first achieved notoriety as one half of the folk duo B*TCH and Animal.

[0:45] B*TCH: They toured with Ani DiFranco and released two albums on her label Righteous Babe Records and were nominated for a GLAAD Media Award in 2003.

[0:45] B*TCH: In 2004, B*TCH went solo and shared stages with the Indigo Girls, acted in Joni Mitchell's film Shortbus, co-wrote a song with Margaret Cho, and produced two albums of her elder and folk hero Ferron.

[1:07] B*TCH: Recently, she played a role in the new Audible podcast of Alison Bechdel's Dykes to Watch Out For, alongside Jane Lynch, Carrie Brownstein, and Roxane Gay.

[1:17] B*TCH: The series was directed by Leigh Silverman of Suffs, Violet, and Well, and B*TCH co-wrote a song for it with Faith Soloway from Transparent.

[1:27] Sarah Goodman: My guest today is the iconic B*TCH.

[1:48] B*TCH: Yes.

[1:49] Sarah Goodman: Okay, great.

[1:52] B*TCH: Yes, I named myself B*TCH in the late 90s, and believe it or not, I've been sticking with it ever since.

[1:59] B*TCH: When I first met my first bandmate, Animal, we met in acting school in Chicago, and Animal is a total wild child who had this brilliant inspiration for both of us to kind of claim these names that are generally used to. I mean, Animal is a little different, you know, it's kind of claiming like the wildness. And B*TCH is a way to reclaim this word that's often used to insult powerful women who take up space. So, you know, we kind of did that as a performance art, you know, we were both theater nerds and kind of took on those personas and started to wear them like costumes in a way. And it was very empowering for me. And it was right around when I was having my first feminist awakenings. And it's been a powerful avatar for me ever since and has been ever shifting.

[2:55] B*TCH: I feel like there's so much power in your name, and like you said, your whole persona, it's almost sort of adjacent to like a drag character.

[3:05] Sarah Goodman: Yes, yes, yeah.

[3:07] B*TCH: And so iconic for the queer community. We're often using more extravagant ways to express ourselves.

[3:17] Sarah Goodman: Right.

[3:18] B*TCH: Heck yes.

[3:19] Sarah Goodman: I love us.

[3:21] Sarah Goodman: So talk to me about being a theater kid growing up. So you went to acting school, but when did you get the theater bug initially?

[3:28] B*TCH: Yes, it sounds like we have a similar background. My mom is a musical theater person. She's a tap dancer.

[3:33] B*TCH: Oh my god, amazing.

[3:36] B*TCH: Yes, and I do go into this in my play because I think her dreams were always to be, you know, a musical theater actress, whatever. And then, of course, as we know, patriarchy dictates a lot of our choices, etc. So, where she ended up was basically, you know, being a mom and having to raise kids. I don't think she loved that job. And she started a tap dancing school in our basement. So I grew up tap dancing and always having this constant rhythm coming out of our kitchen floor because there's always this tap class going on downstairs. And yeah, she exposed me to kind of the wonders of theater, musical theater, dance from a very young age. We were a very singing family, yeah, etc. And you know, I started doing community theater with her when I was in middle school, all that kind of stuff.

But on the other side, I was a very serious violinist and had seen it watching Sesame Street when I was little and started a campaign with my parents to please let me play the violin. So I always did that as well. So I was always kind of a blend, and I think my parents always thought I would go to music school and be kind of a classical violinist, which maybe would have happened, but I hated the costumes of it all. The concert blacks are not very fun, right? Ankle length, you know, velvet, black skirts was just not my jam. I also had a love of acting and had done, I don't know if you know what forensics is in high school.

[5:21] B*TCH: Oh, like debate team.

[5:22] B*TCH: Yeah, and there's this other side to it that's acting. And I had a mentor in that in high school, Linda Patronic, who's no longer with us. I just started to really love acting and serious acting. So those kind of led me to audition for acting schools for college. And in a way, like in hindsight, I sometimes think of going to acting school as a way for me to learn as a musician, you know, because then I went on to be a musician in a band, blah, blah, blah. But I always think acting school really helped me learn how to be in my body, you know. And so to combine those two things is what I feel like I was doing subconsciously.

[6:06] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, yeah. Talking about being in your body, what kind of acting exercises have you done in school that might be sort of wild and wacky, but maybe got you some good results?

[6:19] B*TCH: We spent a year at DePaul, I mean, you know, learning how to thicken space. You know, just walking around and then like trying to let the air around you be thicker. And I swear, you know, at the time I was just like, what the fuck is this? And it's still something I use, you know, it's a way to just slow everything down and you know, kind of exist in a more suspended way.

[6:46] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[6:47] B*TCH: So definitely thickening space is something that I still kind of reference in my practice. Like walk through the room as if you're engulfed in jello kind of thing.

[6:59] Sarah Goodman: Right.

[7:00] B*TCH: So good.

[7:01] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[7:02] B*TCH: That's fun. I love that. I love that kind of thing because I think to outsiders, it sounds like so insane, but it actually really does something for your performances, right?

[7:14] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[7:15] Sarah Goodman: So tell my listeners all about B*TCHCRAFT at Wild Project. This is a memoir musical that you are working on that it's opening soon. I want to hear all about.

[7:27] B*TCH: Oh my goddess. I'm so excited. You know, just hearing that it's gonna open soon. Oh my god, my butt just clenched.

[7:36] Sarah Goodman: You got a lot of work to do.

[7:38] B*TCH: The script I see the script behind you. Isn't that beautiful? She's ready to be a member of Unicorn folder.

[7:43] B*TCH: Yes. Okay, so B*TCHCRAFT. It started as I put out this album called B*TCHCRAFT on Kill Rock Stars in 2022.

[7:54] B*TCH: Love the album.

[7:55] B*TCH: Thank you. I'm very proud of it. And I wanted to, you know, this is my ninth studio album. I've been a touring musician since the late 90s, very luckily. And there was just this way that I wanted to figure out how to tell my own story, not just and you when I toured it, like not just playing the rock show, the okay, this next song is about. You know, I wanted to add this, and I've always had a theatrical element to my shows, but I wanted to heighten it and really like try to yeah, tell my story in a way that I hadn't ever done before. My partner and one of my collaborators, Faith Soloway, who you may also know from the theater world, had asked me what I wanted for Christmas that year. And I was like, oh, I just gotta figure out some way, you know, to like tell my story.

I didn't care if it was a book, if it was, you know, if I was gonna write a memoir, if I was just gonna start a blog, you know, but I've always wanted to tell it, and I get overwhelmed with like no boundaries around it all, you know, when people are just like, you can do anything, like tell your whole story. I'm just like, oh god, no, I need limits, you know.

[9:08] B*TCH: So I knew more of an assignment.

[9:10] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[9:11] B*TCH: So basically, Faith gifted me this woman, Margie Zone, who is one of Faith's old collaborators whose skill is memoir stuff. She teaches, she was teaching that at Harvard, and she has, you know, this just one of her skills is helping artists like pull out their own stories. So we just started. I got some shows opening for the Indigo Girls, and I was like, okay, let's start here. It's a 30-minute set. I knew I wanted to cast a spell as soon as I walked on stage. I knew I had like a few things that I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to talk about being young and very quiet as a kid, because also like when I walk out on stage, my name's B*TCH, I don't look anything like a quiet child, you know.

[10:02] Sarah Goodman: Sure.

[10:02] B*TCH: So I wanted to do, I knew I wanted to do those two things. And so we just started from there. And it was a great success. I mean, I like was driving to the Indigo Girls shows, absolutely panicked. I was like, Am I really gonna like do these monologues? Like as if I'm in, you know, like a black turtleneck and staring off into space, you know, like all these judges.

[10:26] B*TCH: Yeah, like sitting on a stool in a smoothie where like gazing off, you know. And she was like, Yep, you're gonna do it, you know. And it just it went, it just you know, it worked. And you know that feeling, like when you feel like something's working, there is just nothing better, you know, and so we started developing it from there. So this New York run will be, I think the fourth iteration of the script, and we've just been, you know, so we developed it into let's call it like an hour and 15 minutes when I went on my first national tour for B*TCHCRAFT. You know, I carried around a cape and a few giant pencils and some notebooks, you know. I was carrying around some props. I'm like, okay, I'm just doing like feminist theater and rock clubs, you know?

[11:16] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[11:16] B*TCH: And it just kept like working, you know, and I would work with the sound people and be like, Can you give me one lighting cue? You know, just like one change, you know. So it was very DIY. And we did a couple new iterations at Joe's Pub and tried out, you know, different aspects of the script. I went up to P-Town this last summer, and I did kind of a very cabaret version of it. It has to be like 55 minutes or less. And you know, there's a drag queen like waiting behind you to get on the stage for the next shift, and you know, it's very also very DIY feeling. And yeah, I kind of announced that run, and I had been talking to Wild Project just in, you know, loving connection with them. I love what they do and the artists that they present, and they offered me this slot, and so Margie and I started rewriting the script, knowing that we were gonna have a theater audience now and not like a rock audience, so we really wanted to develop it further, and that's what we've been doing, and I'm just very excited about it.

So it is like you said, it's an autobiographical tale. It starts with, you know, a what is a quiet or is she shut down child, you know, who then goes on to name herself B*TCH in the middle of a feminist mushroom-induced revelation, and then you know, the journey that happens from there.

[12:50] B*TCH: That's so exciting, yeah, and really interesting that your development process has happened like on the road of tour, like touring in a more rock setting. That's really cool and different than the average off-Broadway musical.

[13:07] B*TCH: Yes, and yeah, I felt very lucky, and then also like, oh my god, like I, you know, watching Faith and like the projects that they work on, I see how a lot of theater is made, like in these workshops, and you know, developing it in a very methodical way, like that. And I don't know, there's something about the okay, you've got to run in February, so make it happen. It's kind of how I've always operated, so we'll see how it goes.

[13:36] B*TCH: I'd love to hear more about you being a violinist and a multi-instrumentalist, and what kind of musical instrumentation are we expected to see in Bitchcraft?

[13:48] B*TCH: Yay, okay. Um, yes, like I said, I discovered the violin when I was very young. I think I was watching Sesame Street at three, and um started playing when I was four. I started classical, like Suzuki, and then shifted from, you know, so just I studied classical all through high school. And like I said, I went to acting school and put my violin under the bed and never dealt with it.

[14:27] B*TCH: Oh wow, you put it down for a long time.

[14:28] B*TCH: I put it down for a long time. And I remember like some acting classes, like we had to do one exercise where we had to do a private moment. And, you know, people would, you know, bring in things from their room or whatever. And it was this really emotional thing for me to actually take my violin out and play. And I was really shy about it. And it's, you know, it's actually one of my earliest relationships. Like the sound of this instrument, it was so transformative for me as a kid. And, you know, the fact that I had put it away. And then, you know, you spend your whole life practicing every day. And classical music is so about just like the time, you know, you've got to practice it. Discipline every day.

[15:12] B*TCH: Yeah. And I felt like I had no other life, you know. And then you don't do it for a year. And man, are you rusty? You know? So then it was like this whole emotional thing about like, my God, I've like lost this thing, you know. And sorry if my dog is distracted. She's just oh yeah. She's just wandering around.

[15:33] B*TCH: Oh no, that is her job. Um, yeah. And so actually when I met Animal, it was very Animal was really transformative for me in the way of that he encouraged me to just take it out. And it doesn't, you're not in a competition. Like classical music can feel very competitive, and it was very competitive. You're always like auditioning to be the next, you know, the get the better seat and all of that kind of stuff. And there's a lot of hierarchy and ranking.

[16:02] B*TCH: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And Animal is just like, just play one note. Like, who cares? Like play one note from your heart. You know, and doing things like that, it's like it made me realize, like, wow, even when I was a kid and I would play from my heart, like I had this association with it that I wasn't practicing. You know what I mean? So a lot of ways it's like trying to retrain like how you think about it, you know.

[16:32] B*TCH: And um anyway, so that was really moving. And so he and I would just start um, you know, he played a um djembe, and so we would just like improv and you know, take mushrooms, and I would play one note or you know, play half of a concerto that I used to love, and then Animal actually gifted me a gift certificate to the old town school of folk music.

[17:00] Sarah Goodman: Oh, I love that place.

[17:01] B*TCH: Me too. Me too. So I rock up there, and I'm you know, uh, I tell them my story, and they're like, Oh, we know just the person to pair you with. I think I had 10 classes, and so they paired me with Andrew Byrd.

[17:14] Sarah Goodman: Oh, I love Andrew Byrd.

[17:17] B*TCH: What a wonderful person to be paired up with. I know, and of course, this is before he was famous, and he had just graduated from Northwestern, so he had been in the classical program and also was trying to kind of get his head out of that, you know, because also when you play classical music, you kind of feel like you need music in front of you to tell you what to do. And like I said, if you ever step away and you're just playing from your heart, you have this feeling that you're doing something wrong, you know.

[17:43] B*TCH: You're being bad yeah so he was so pivotal in just he just taught me a bunch of tunes he's like you know I just listen to tapes of jazz players that I love and I rewind their solos and I've like learned their solos and that's like you know how he taught himself yeah how to break away from the classical paradigm so that was really pivotal for me and wow so the violin has become you know one of my main voices I guess it really always was and in Bitchcraft when I made the album I was determined that I was going to make the violin like a central voice in the album because it is easier for me to write I play bass I play ukulele I play keyboard it's always easier for me to write on those instruments some of my albums it's like it feels like they're all bass songs and you know some violin on some solos here and there.

[18:39] B*TCH: So I really wanted to feature the violin and make it front and center. I play electric violin so sometimes people when they're just hearing it they think it's guitar. That was kind of one of my goals with the album is to really feature my violin and so in the play she's very featured. You know interestingly I play it quite a bit I mean you know four or five times throughout the show I'd say the audiences can expect like very kind of big pop songs with you know a strong feminist message.

[19:12] Sarah Goodman: Yes that's so cool. Also, I just love that you took violin with Andrew Byrd. I think that's so cool.

[19:20] B*TCH: Me too. And then we used to work at the hideout for a really long time in Chicago. So I've run into Andrew Bird several times there. I love that Ben. Um, and he played at the hideout summer music festival. They used to have this thing called the Block Party.

[19:29] Sarah Goodman: Oh, yeah.

[19:29] B*TCH: And he played at the Block Party once for this like really cool performance with um operators. They had like a whale puppet. It was amazing. He's also very theatrical.

[19:48] Sarah Goodman: Yes.

[19:49] B*TCH: Yeah. Yeah, and it's it's cool because we've run into each other, you know, later in life as we're both like out there being professional musicians, you know. And I'm always like, Yeah, do you remember me? You know? I remember you, you know.

[20:04] Sarah Goodman: How could you how could he bring it?

[20:06] B*TCH: Yeah. And we were label mates for a while. We were both on Ani's label.

[20:11] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[20:12] B*TCH: So that was cool too. It was like definitely a couple full circle moments. That's really amazing. I love that.

[20:18] B*TCH: We'll be right back with more good show after this.

[20:22] Sarah Goodman: We're back with more good show. I want to ask you about what you think about the intersection of art and politics. Your music is very political. It's very bold. You make a lot of strong statements in your music, and your music's very tied to like activism and social issues. So I'd love for you to talk about that and talk about how that plays a piece in Bitchcraft as well.

[20:47] B*TCH: Great question. Yeah, you know, it's funny. I don't even understand how you can be an artist without being political. You know, politics have always been important to me. And as a queer person, Animal and I were, I mean, Animal was like my first girlfriend. And we wanted to make really sex positive, wild, you know. I mean, sometimes I listen to our old songs. I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I had the nerve to say that sh no kidding. My mom, my mom is English, and these English parents of mine who basically gave birth to B*TCH, who have, you know, actually been pretty supportive and wonderful, even though sometimes my mom would be like, why? Why do you name yourself B*TCH? I mean, you've got such a lovely name.

I mean, can't you sing songs about love and you know, a nice day? You've always got to be singing about pussy and labia and you know. I just feel like I was like born to freak her out. And like it's only now that I get older that I'm like, wow, I really kind of put her through something.

[22:00] Sarah Goodman: That's hilarious. I love it. I I wouldn't have expected that.

[22:04] B*TCH: What that my mom's English?

[22:06] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, the English mother.

[22:08] B*TCH: I know, nobody can. Like this came out of English people.

[22:15] Sarah Goodman: Oh, that's great. Okay, I want to bring up something kind of random. I did a deep dive on your YouTube and discovered your one long earring. And I need to hear about the origins of one long earring.

[22:28] B*TCH: Wow, I am so glad you've asked about that. It's so funny. Sometimes I'll post videos of one long earring on like my Facebook or whatever. I swear, like half my fans don't even realize that's me. You know? They're just like, what is B*TCH posting these like, you know, random like older Lessies singing bad songs about Lyme disease. It is so dropped in that if you weren't quite focusing on it, you might think that it's real. You know, it feels it feels like uh something that would be on like Portlandia.

[23:00] B*TCH: Exactly. I love it. So one long earring is the brainchild of Faith Soloway, who is kind of a comedic genius, and Faith plays this character, Joan Stone Suarez Levy, who you know was huge in the Renfair circuit. Um the names are so perfect, right? And we've been having so much fun. Um we we started this series at home with Terry and Joan during the pandemic, and you know, it's a short playlist, the YouTube that I put together, but I feel like I'm just so proud of them.

[23:38] B*TCH: So we started doing these during the pandemic, and um I feel so lucky that I get to improv with Faith because improv in acting school was literally one of my favorite things, and probably I feel like that was my strong suit. And Faith is such a uh genius at improving. So anyway, it's been really fun to get to play their Terry. And yeah, we just started developing that during the pandemic, and we are now after this run. We are going, Faith and I, well, Faith mainly is writing a full uh play of those characters.

[24:19] Sarah Goodman: Oh my god, that's incredible.

[24:19] B*TCH: And we've we've assembled a band, like a power band. Um actually we should do this podcast with you when that's coming out.

[24:28] Sarah Goodman: Please do.

[24:29] B*TCH: We're going to keep keep me abreast. So we and Faith and I actually have like easily 10 songs that we need to, you know. I I'm kind of the mommager of the thing, you know, where I'm like, put on your wig. We're doing a video, you know. And anyway, so it is, yeah, it's very um Portlandia. We picture it kind of like the lesbian spinal tap.

[24:52] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[24:53] B*TCH: And we've done different versions. It's been something we've like worked on like writing wise for a few years, ever since we met in when did we meet in 2019 or so? And with Joey, their sibling, we had like kind of talked about developing it as a television show, and then we've thought about it as like a mockumentary, you know. And so right now, what we're focusing on for the spring is we put together this power band.

[25:19] B*TCH: It's gonna be Melissa Farrick, yes, Meg Twee, oh my god, Pamela Means, and Ann Stott, who you may or may not know, but she's a musician and actor who lives out on the Cape.

[25:31] B*TCH: Um so we are going to in the spring do two shows at Passim. We're gonna practice leading up to it, and we're gonna do two shows at Passim in Cambridge in May and June, and just find the show, and then we're gonna do it in P Town in this summer, I think four times, and then hopefully, you know, we'll bring it to New York or who knows what it'll do beyond there.

[25:57] Sarah Goodman: So oh my god, that's so exciting.

[25:59] Sarah Goodman: I'm so glad you're a fan.

[26:01] B*TCH: I'm a huge fan, huge, huge fan of One Long Earring.

[26:04] B*TCH: It was cracking me up.

[26:06] Sarah Goodman: Oh, I'm so glad.

[26:08] B*TCH: I mean, even the band name kind of says it all.

[26:11] B*TCH: It really does. The band name and their names, Terry, Terry and Jones. That's just it couldn't be more perfect.

[26:18] Sarah Goodman: Who were your inspirations when you were coming up when you're a young artist, Bitch and Animal days, and who inspires you now?

[26:27] B*TCH: Ooh, great question. During Bitch and Animal Days, for sure, The Muppets. For sure, Ani DiFranco. She was a huge part of my feminist awakening, like in college. Um, for sure. Do you know who Kenny Starr is?

[26:43] Sarah Goodman: Yes.

[26:45] B*TCH: Freaking love her. Yes. Amazing. Um she was a big influence. She kind of helped. Yeah, she was a huge influence on both Animal and me. Sinead O'Connor, Lion and Cobra album is like just one of my top, probably one of my top three. Joni Mitchell. Yeah. Tracy Chapman. Those were my big influences at in those times.

[27:10] B*TCH: And these days. Oh my gosh, there's so much good stuff out there. I was just listening to Dochi.

[27:18] Sarah Goodman: Thank you.

[27:19] B*TCH: Yeah. Oh, what a genius. Amazing. Right.

[27:22] B*TCH: And the conceptually so deep. Oh. Like so much thought into everything going on. The that performance where the braid all their parades were interconnected. Mind blowing. Mind blowing. Yeah. Yeah. Her artistry, um, similar to Sia, her artistry, like her level of paying attention to the visuals and all of that has hugely inspired me. I can't stop listening to Odeta.

[27:51] Sarah Goodman: I have a follow-up question, which is um, what are some of your favorite musicals or musicals that you that stick with you from your life? That you've loved.

[27:59] B*TCH: For sure, Gypsy. Yes. For sure. And I just saw the Audra McDonald version.

[28:05] Sarah Goodman: Me too, on Wednesdays.

[28:06] B*TCH: Oh, it was so good. It was so good. I absolutely loved everything. And I've always loved that show. And I've always a little bit, you know, my sister, when we were growing up, my sister was the object of my mom's like kind of, I'm gonna make you a star attention. And I was just like the nerdy, quiet classical violinist who also, you know, tapped and whatever. But um, I was always like, you know, my sister was Gypsy Rose Lee when we did it at the JCC in Michigan, you know. And I was the ass of the tap dancing cow, you know.

[28:39] Sarah Goodman: Of course.

[28:39] B*TCH: Caroline, Caroline. My sister was Annie. I was a nameless orphan, you know. So I always relate very heavily to that show. Um Chicago is one of my favorite musicals. Yes, love it. Just saw O'Mary.

[28:55] B*TCH: Oh, not a musical, but fabulous, but seriously, one of the I mean it's music, it has music in it. It's a play with yes, yes. That was really fun and really inspiring. Um did you get to see Cole?

[29:07] Sarah Goodman: Yes.

[29:08] B*TCH: Oh, amazing. Yes, I got to see them before. They're so good. What a thrill. I laughed so hard, I thought my eyes were gonna fall out of my head.

[29:18] B*TCH: Oh my gosh. Crying, falling apart. Oh, it was so good.

[29:22] Sarah Goodman: Yeah. So, what do you think you want audiences to walk away with after seeing Bitchcraft?

[29:30] B*TCH: Great question. I want audiences to walk away with an inspiration to speak their own stories, and like feeling inspired that you know that their stories I've heard from a lot of women that they feel really inspired to like kind of take up more space in the world after seeing my show, which yeah, for sure, has always been one of my goals.

[29:58] Sarah Goodman: That's so awesome. I can't wait to see it. It's gonna be such a blast. I also really love Bitchcraft the album. How much of the album is incorporated into the show? Because it sounds like there's a lot of different music in the mix.

[30:11] B*TCH: Yes. Yeah, and it's funny because the P Town version has two more of the Bitchcraft songs than now this new version will because you know it's just like one of those things like necessity, you know, like what now that the script is rewritten, like what do we have space for? So now there's a little bit more Bitch and Animal content of Bitchcraft.

[30:33] B*TCH: Do you want to know the songs that are in it? Should we?

[30:36] Sarah Goodman: Okay.

[30:36] B*TCH: You're the Man is in it.

[30:38] Sarah Goodman: Okay.

[30:38] B*TCH: Hateful Thoughts is in it. Polar Bear is in it.

[30:42] Sarah Goodman: Oh, I was hoping you were to say Polar Bear.

[30:44] B*TCH: Polar Bear and Fallen Witch One are my favorites on that album. Well, you'll definitely hear Fallen Witch One.

[30:51] B*TCH: Great. And and Fallen Witch 2. And we've repurposed Fallen Witch 2 into an opening number.

[30:58] Sarah Goodman: Oh, cool.

[30:59] B*TCH: Yeah, so you'll hear like a new version of it, and then you'll hear the OG version. Easy Target is in it. And people might be devastated to know because every version has had pages in it, but this one doesn't.

[31:14] Sarah Goodman: So we'll see.

[31:15] B*TCH: Oh, damn. Okay. Yeah. We'll see what happens without pages there. Who am I gonna be without pages? What are we gonna do?

[31:26] Sarah Goodman: I have one last question before I let you go. Where does your witchiness come into play?

[31:32] B*TCH: Uh I'd love to know about that side of you and how it's incorporated in the show.

[31:37] B*TCH: There's like a broom. We're talking about flying around on our broomsticks. I'd love to know more about your witchy side.

[31:43] B*TCH: Yay. Thanks for asking. It's funny, you know, when when people are like, I I highly identify with witchness. And then when real serious witches talk to me, I'm like, oh, okay, I'm not a witch like that. Like, I don't know about like the bird feather and the north and the east and the, you know what I mean? I'm a fake witch.

[32:05] B*TCH: No. You're not in the forest with your covenant around the biggest.

[32:09] B*TCH: As much as I wish. As much as I wish. I love the concept of, I mean, witches and how they've been represented in our culture, you know, riding broomsticks and which funnily enough, I I've been just kind of obsessed with that image. I mean, anything that's like anything that's gendered in our society has always been a point of interest for me, especially like language, because I'm a poet. Like I always think about how we gender words, why, for example, we say pussy is something, you know, is something bad and weak, and then oh, it takes balls to do something. I mean, all that stuff to me are just like signs of our the patriarchy that we're living in, and stuff that is very interesting to pull apart and unpack.

[33:01] B*TCH: And the witches thing, the broom came to me when I was making Bitchcraft. And I thought there was something about the broom that came to me that it's not only about witchy witchness, it's also about women's work and like this way that I knew how to clean a house from the top to bottom growing up. I mean, I was raised to do that stuff, and thank God I didn't have brothers because I have so many friends who are like they had to do that, but then their brothers just got to sit and watch the game after dinner. Thank God I only had sisters, so we all were cleaning the house.

[33:37] B*TCH: But yeah, me too. There's a time where there was a time where I realized, like, wow, this these are the skills I learned, and didn't learn much about how to file my taxes or you know, all that other kind of stuff, and the devaluing of it in our society, like who doesn't need somebody to clean their house? I mean, it's like literally one of the most important skills, and like I love to cook. It's like my happy place is like being at home and just like cooking and like making a soup. It's like everybody needs that. Everybody needs that, like what we classify as like women's labor. And the fact that it's so devalued and yet just so essential, it's just telling of the society that we live in that we don't just like completely honor the person who's like making the soup every day or making sure that the home space is cared for.

So it's just something I think about a lot. And so to me, the broom is like a symbol of women's work, and like this way that I wanted to like endow it with like the most powerful symbolism of what it like deserves.

[34:50] B*TCH: Yes. I've always had a witchy side of very like casting spells in the moonlight and you know, salt watering my crystals and all of that kind of stuff. So the link into the witchness of it is just for me, just like fucking perfect. Yeah, you know, and who are the witches and why were they so cast aside? And from my research, even the fact that they're riding brooms is uh some have said that that's like a reference to masturbation. Well and that these are women who like had control of their own sexuality and knew about herbs and anything like alternative knowledge to what we think of as acceptable, you know, mainstream knowledge. So there it is. And when I was getting ready to release Bitchcraft, I just had this vision that like I wanted a collar like a queen made out of brooms, you know.

[35:42] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[35:43] B*TCH: And Dusty, who helped who built that and who helped me envision the whole costume for the cover. I mean, the cover now is just from here up, but the dress I was wearing, um, you can see it like on the inside of artwork or whatever.

[35:58] B*TCH: Cool. I had this vision that I wanted it to be a whole dress made out of protest signs.

[36:04] Sarah Goodman: Wow.

[36:04] B*TCH: So that morphed into that they were like pieces of the lyrics from the album, et cetera. So that's cool. Anyway, it's it's a political the witchiness is a political stance.

[36:17] Sarah Goodman: Yes.

[36:18] B*TCH: I'm into it. I'm very pro-witch.

[36:20] Sarah Goodman: Yay!

[36:22] B*TCH: And I feel like we're all getting to be more pro-witch, like with Wicked, the movie now. People are so we're all team Elphaba.

[36:29] Sarah Goodman: Heck yes.

[36:30] B*TCH: Heck yeah.

[36:32] Sarah Goodman: Yes. Well, thank you so much, B*TCH, for joining me. Tell the listeners where they can find you and how they can go see Bitchcraft at Wild Project.

[36:42] B*TCH: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Um, people can go to my website, is BitchMusic. All my social media is Bitch Music. Don't just try to Google Bitch, you'll get re-traumatized. So find me on social media at Bitch Music. Come see the show. It goes into previews February seventh. Opening night is February tenth. It closes March first. And hopefully, we'll have a whole other broomstick ride after that. But please come along and hang out with us at Wild Project.

[37:12] Sarah Goodman: Yes, thank you so much.

[37:14] Sarah Goodman: Woo! What a pleasure.

[37:21] Sarah Goodman: Thanks for listening. Follow Good Show on TikTok and Instagram at Good Show Podcast. Good Show is available at bpn.fm slash goodshow on the Broadway Podcast Network and everywhere.