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[0:00] Kristen Goodman: Hi, I'm Kristen Goodman.

[0:02] Sarah Goodman: I'm Sarah Goodman, and we're Showbiz Siblings.

[0:06] Kristen Goodman: We live in New York City.

[0:08] Sarah Goodman: We're both queer and we love musical theater.

[0:11] Kristen Goodman: This is our podcast.

[0:25] Sarah Goodman: Welcome to episode number three.

[0:28] Kristen Goodman: Today we're celebrating another Jerry Herman classic.

[0:32] Sarah Goodman: A summer stock favorite.

[0:34] Kristen Goodman: It's special fascinational.

[0:38] Sarah Goodman: It's truly inspirational.

[0:42] Kristen Goodman: We think it's just sensational.

[0:46] Sarah Goodman: Mame.

[0:48] Kristen Goodman: Mame Mame.

[0:54] Sarah Goodman: The original Broadway production opened in 1966 at the Winter Garden Theater and won Tony's for two of our favorite stars, Angela Lansbury and B. Arthur.

[1:04] Kristen Goodman: The first time we saw MAME was in '93, when I was six years old and Kristen was 11. Our stepdad was the director and choreographer at Theater at the Center, a Chicago area regional theater, where our mom performed and served as choral director.

[1:18] Sarah Goodman: It's been 30 years since that opening season. And Kristen and I went back home to Chicago to talk with our mom Jenny and our stepdad Gary about their memories from that first season at the center and their production of MAME.

[1:31] Kristen Goodman: I think Hello Dolly and MAME, we've also noticed, are really campy and like poking fun at the establishment or like societal norms of like you have to marry this kind of person.

[1:47] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, she's really poking fun at it.

[1:50] Kristen Goodman: Oh, yeah, she's a hippie.

[1:52] Sarah Goodman: Well, and you look at the scene with the Upsons in MAME, in any version of MAME, and you're like, I bet this is how Ted Cruz behaves at his parties. Like this is still a relevant prestige of this kind of person.

[2:06] Kristen Goodman: Right.

[2:07] Sarah Goodman: Well, I don't think I noticed until definitely not with watching the Paper Mill one, but with watching the Munster version, because you had the same cast members playing the same parts.

[2:19] Kristen Goodman: Yeah.

[2:19] Sarah Goodman: Those tropes in each of the families, the Southern family and the Connecticut family. It made me clue into like, oh, like this is so funny. It's like these little slices of demographics of people that we're like poking fun of, and this really can't be a good idea.

[2:33] Kristen Goodman: Your lack of numbers made something clever. I bet you have caricatures of that style of person and how they exist in Georgia or Connecticut or wherever.

[2:44] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[2:44] Kristen Goodman: Yeah.

[2:44] Sarah Goodman: But I think there's, we're noticing now as we are diving back into material that Jerry Herman's shows really make fun of the material.

[2:51] Kristen Goodman: Like kind of poking fun at it. They're really smart.

[2:54] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, really, really smart. Poking fun at it in a subversive way that like maybe most people wouldn't really notice.

[3:00] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, I think like it was probably over the heads of most people watching at Munster that there were like, you know, there's little jabs in there about rules of society or whatever.

[3:09] Sarah Goodman: Well, the thing is too for those last scenes in MAME's apartment to work, it shows that even though she said, "I'll have a little party at my house when you get back from up to pines," here, whatever the line is, it takes someone really clever with a lot of wit to do what she did at that party.

[3:29] Kristen Goodman: Just say she had the upper hand here. I'm gonna take control. You're not taking my nephew to do something because, right, I'm not just some fly-by-night floozy. I know what I'm doing.

[3:41] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, yeah.

[3:43] Kristen Goodman: The idea for the Good Show podcast came from our love of the theater on film and tape archive at the Performing Arts Library in Manhattan. If you've got a special collections library card, then you can make an appointment to watch one of the hundreds of shows they have in the archive.

[3:57] Sarah Goodman: It really would have been quite the treat to watch Angela Lansbury and B. Arthur, but sadly, the original production debuted long before TOFT started filming all of the Broadway shows.

[4:07] Kristen Goodman: So instead, we chose to watch a Paper Mill production. Here's our discussion about that show.

[4:18] Sarah Goodman: So today we went to the Theater on Film and Tape collection at the New York Performing Arts Library in Lincoln Center.

[4:27] Kristen Goodman: Talking about TOFT.

[4:29] Sarah Goodman: Talking about TOFT.

[4:31] Kristen Goodman: And we saw the 1999 production at Papermill Playhouse of the musical MAME.

[4:39] Sarah Goodman: MAME!

[4:41] Kristen Goodman: MAME Jerry Herman.

[4:46] Sarah Goodman: Ugh. Gotta love him.

[4:48] Kristen Goodman: Angela Lansbury.

[4:50] Sarah Goodman: Original.

[4:51] Kristen Goodman: Recently departed.

[4:52] Sarah Goodman: Uh, R.A.P. Angela's Broadway Auntie.

[4:57] Kristen Goodman: I thought we could break it down into some categories and see what you think.

[5:01] Sarah Goodman: So this cast.

[5:03] Kristen Goodman: The cast.

[5:04] Sarah Goodman: What's her name?

[5:05] Kristen Goodman: Christine.

[5:06] Sarah Goodman: Christine Ebersole.

[5:07] Kristen Goodman: Christine Ebersole.

[5:09] Sarah Goodman: Was Mame.

[5:10] Kristen Goodman: She played Mame. I feel like she's been in like a million TV shows, but I don't quite know who she is.

[5:16] Sarah Goodman: She's also was in Grey Gardens.

[5:19] Kristen Goodman: Oh, right, right, right.

[5:21] Sarah Goodman: Younger Edie.

[5:24] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, and then Little Edie, not younger Edie.

[5:27] Sarah Goodman: Right, right, right.

[5:28] Kristen Goodman: Who was Vera?

[5:29] Sarah Goodman: I don't think I know who played Vera in the production.

[5:32] Kristen Goodman: Kelly Bishop.

[5:33] Sarah Goodman: Kelly Bishop.

[5:34] Kristen Goodman: Okay.

[5:35] Sarah Goodman: I was not familiar with her either.

[5:37] Kristen Goodman: Okay.

[5:38] Sarah Goodman: And then did we determine if our little Patrick was one of the Broadway kids or, I mean, he was definitely a Broadway kid.

[5:46] Kristen Goodman: Sure.

[5:46] Sarah Goodman: Ayakano. Thank you, Paul, for your service. I have to know how many bugles did you give the cast of the 1999 Paper Mill production of MAME. If you could, if you could give like the cast, if you could award them a number of bugles, how many do you think that they deserve?

[6:07] Kristen Goodman: You know, I'm gonna say the ensemble as a whole, like the company was working very hard and deserved, I'm gonna say like at least five bugles.

[6:24] Sarah Goodman: Five bugles for the ensemble.

[6:26] Kristen Goodman: The leads, however, all of them, I think maybe got two bugles.

[6:35] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, I wow.

[6:38] Kristen Goodman: I'm with you.

[6:39] Sarah Goodman: Sad bugle time on the leads.

[6:42] Kristen Goodman: Like I was underwhelmed.

[6:44] Sarah Goodman: Me too. And I think, of course, you know, we weren't able to see the Broadway production because TOFT doesn't have that particular production available for viewing.

[6:53] Kristen Goodman: I don't think they recorded it. It was too early. It's like '66, so yeah.

[6:57] Sarah Goodman: So we were thrilled to see this production. It's great to see any production of like that.

[7:03] Kristen Goodman: But I would, yeah, I was kind of underwhelmed. I, you know, you know, you have Angela Lansbury in your head of what this role is supposed to be, but I didn't, I like Christine Ebersole's voice was nice.

[7:17] Sarah Goodman: It's beautiful.

[7:17] Kristen Goodman: I could listen to her sing all day, but did I think she brought Mame to life? Absolutely not. She was like just kind of like, she did not seem like a quirky zany lady.

[7:31] Sarah Goodman: No, she was just like the normie girl next door.

[7:35] Kristen Goodman: Yeah.

[7:36] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[7:37] Kristen Goodman: I didn't care for that. And similarly with Vera, I just felt like she was just sort of again low energy, and their comedic timing wasn't really very good.

[7:48] Sarah Goodman: I didn't really believe that they were friends.

[7:50] Kristen Goodman: I did not like their chemistry either.

[7:52] Sarah Goodman: And it wasn't buddies. I didn't laugh at any of those leader jokes.

[7:56] Kristen Goodman: Those jokes are so funny.

[7:57] Sarah Goodman: And I feel like they missed so many of the jokes, the whole show.

[8:01] Kristen Goodman: I wonder though, if it's more direction than it is cast, because the timing of the whole show felt a little off.

[8:08] Sarah Goodman: It did.

[8:08] Kristen Goodman: And that was the pacing and tempos.

[8:10] Sarah Goodman: Wait, how many bugles are you giving the cast before we move on to the next?

[8:10] Kristen Goodman: I agree that the company gets more bugles than the leads for sure. The chorus, the ensemble members of this production. I give them, I give them eleven bugles.

[8:30] Sarah Goodman: Wow, eleven bugles.

[8:32] Kristen Goodman: And I think the leads, I agree with your two. And I think a special award, one bugle extra goes out to the boy who played young Peter.

[8:48] Sarah Goodman: Oh, mess.

[8:50] Kristen Goodman: Complete what, six minutes of stage time in the entire show at the very, very end of act two.

[8:58] Sarah Goodman: No spoilers.

[8:59] Kristen Goodman: But no spoilers. The show's been out since 1966.

[9:04] Sarah Goodman: Okay, but that leads me, the timing thing that you just brought up, that leads me into the next category, and that is direction.

[9:10] Kristen Goodman: Direct slash choreography. How many martinis do you feel?

[9:17] Sarah Goodman: Who wait? First of all, who can you remind me on your research page there? Who directed and choreographed this production?

[9:24] Kristen Goodman: The director is Robert Johansson.

[9:28] Sarah Goodman: And the choreographer was Michael Lichfield.

[9:31] Kristen Goodman: Lichfield.

[9:33] Sarah Goodman: Okay. I don't know them, but okay, so how many martinis do the director and choreographer receive for this show?

[9:43] Kristen Goodman: Um, I'm gonna give, I'm gonna give the choreographer two martinis and let him decide if the director gets one of them or not.

[9:54] Sarah Goodman: Because it was pretty much non-existent.

[9:57] Kristen Goodman: Because I don't see a lot of direction happening. There was a lot of sitting down in this production.

[10:03] Sarah Goodman: Sitting.

[10:04] Kristen Goodman: There was sitting and singing a lot.

[10:06] Sarah Goodman: Why were they sitting in that floating window thing?

[10:09] Kristen Goodman: They sat on that.

[10:11] Sarah Goodman: What was that? What was that supposed to be?

[10:14] Kristen Goodman: Well, they fly a window in the show in "Open a New Window."

[10:19] Sarah Goodman: They fly around in a window?

[10:21] Kristen Goodman: Yeah. Don't you remember that from the Munster production?

[10:25] Sarah Goodman: They flew her in a window.

[10:30] Kristen Goodman: Yeah. We saw the photos of that too when we went to, when we saw that at Special Collections.

[10:37] Sarah Goodman: I saw that, but I was like, what is this weird elevator thing again?

[10:40] Kristen Goodman: I thought it was an elevator, and I was like, why are they sitting on the floor?

[10:44] Sarah Goodman: Well, because I think the Paper Mill one that we saw was so big it didn't look like a window. It looked more like an elevator or a—well, the one in the original that we saw the pictures of at TOFT also was big, like an elevator.

[10:57] Kristen Goodman: It was, but not quite as big as the Paper Mill one.

[10:59] Sarah Goodman: I don't know. It was weird.

[11:00] Kristen Goodman: There's a flying window in "Open a New Window."

[11:03] Sarah Goodman: Um, but there was a lot of sitting. There was a lot of sitting on the chaise lounge and just lots of sitting in this show.

[11:11] Kristen Goodman: I didn't quite understand. Like they were sitting through "Bosom Buddies."

[11:15] Sarah Goodman: For most of "Bosom Buddies."

[11:17] Kristen Goodman: A lot of it they were sitting.

[11:27] Sarah Goodman: Really made me want to look up the video of B. Arthur and Angela Lansbury doing it.

[11:33] Kristen Goodman: Right.

[11:33] Sarah Goodman: On the Tony's or the Oscars or whatever time they did it, like on some award show.

[11:39] Kristen Goodman: It just wasn't working.

[11:41] Sarah Goodman: I feel like the director, I would give it, I'm gonna give it one martini, and that's a martini that's been sitting out too long and now it's room temperature.

[11:54] Kristen Goodman: It's a room temperature, old martini.

[11:56] Sarah Goodman: Old martini, you're not really sure. Like, was this my martini? Or did somebody else leave this? Should I drink this? I probably shouldn't drink this.

[12:05] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, that's how it felt.

[12:07] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, and like the choreography, I guess, I don't know. There was a lot of like, um, there was a lot of times where they would break up different sections of the company, which like was kind of cute, but then it became sort of repetitive.

[12:24] Kristen Goodman: I don't know. Again, I think we're really spoiled because we have this memory of the Theater at the Center production from our childhood.

[12:33] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[12:35] Kristen Goodman: Which would have been what, '93?

[12:38] Sarah Goodman: So this is six years prior to the Paper Mill production and presumably way lower budget.

[12:44] Kristen Goodman: And in my head, in my mind's eye memory, the Munster production of MAME was way more high energy and showy and fun.

[12:55] Sarah Goodman: Absolutely.

[12:56] Kristen Goodman: Our mom's acting is over the top, but in the best way.

[13:01] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, I feel like that's what was missing from this is the camp.

[13:05] Kristen Goodman: The campiness of it. They were taking themselves really seriously.

[13:10] Sarah Goodman: And it wasn't funny. They missed all of the funny jokes.

[13:11] Kristen Goodman: Like, I just didn't like a line would pass by and I'd be like, but wait, that was supposed to be a joke.

[13:20] Sarah Goodman: Right.

[13:20] Kristen Goodman: And you missed it. Because you didn't deliver it right.

[13:23] Sarah Goodman: Or you didn't stage it right. Because I think so many of those jokes are just very subtle, depending, you know, little like that B. Arthur humor where you just like do sort of a side eye over your shoulder and it gets a laugh, you know?

[13:40] Kristen Goodman: But if you don't stage that right, then it just flies by with no laugh.

[13:45] Sarah Goodman: It was like very a very calm, subdued game.

[13:52] Kristen Goodman: Yeah.

[13:52] Sarah Goodman: There wasn't a lot of laughter or explosions of joy or anything.

[13:58] Kristen Goodman: So then let's move on to music slash band slash sound.

[14:04] Sarah Goodman: Like we can kind of group all of that together. How many Jerry Herman high notes do you give this Paper Mill production of MAME in the music category?

[14:16] Kristen Goodman: Music category. Well, the ensemble was very, very strong. So I'm gonna say maybe like a dozen, a dozen or more high notes.

[14:31] Sarah Goodman: Yes.

[14:32] Kristen Goodman: And then a key change.

[14:35] Sarah Goodman: Ooh.

[14:36] Kristen Goodman: For the sopranos because they are working so hard in this show.

[14:40] Sarah Goodman: They are singing so high.

[14:42] Kristen Goodman: They really all the time. The end of every chorus number ends with some of the highest high notes.

[14:50] Sarah Goodman: I know, and I love it so much. Why don't more shows have super high notes?

[14:55] Kristen Goodman: Like, I guess because it's just so hard.

[14:57] Sarah Goodman: It doesn't sound good.

[14:59] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, and it's just not in fashion for people to sing in head voice right now.

[15:02] Sarah Goodman: Let's bring back in musical theater.

[15:05] Kristen Goodman: Let's bring it back.

[15:07] Sarah Goodman: Bring brook.

[15:07] Kristen Goodman: Ring break.

[15:08] Sarah Goodman: Bring a brick.

[15:09] Kristen Goodman: Bring brook.

[15:10] Sarah Goodman: Hi, nooch.

[15:13] Kristen Goodman: Um yeah, I the band was big. They had a big band, and it was cool how they were up raised up in the, you know, back of the stage.

[15:24] Sarah Goodman: That was really cool. They were like upstage and really high.

[15:27] Kristen Goodman: But I didn't like the tempos of everything.

[15:30] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[15:30] Kristen Goodman: Some of the tempos were off.

[15:31] Sarah Goodman: They were, and like "Bosom Buddies" felt fast.

[15:35] Kristen Goodman: It felt too fast. That was kind of strange.

[15:39] Sarah Goodman: Um, but I liked how big the horn section was because that's like my favorite thing about a Jerry Herman score is the high notes and the horns.

[15:46] Kristen Goodman: Yeah.

[15:47] Sarah Goodman: And it was so cute how in the overture they stood up on their little featured moments.

[15:51] Kristen Goodman: Did you see that?

[15:52] Sarah Goodman: I liked that.

[15:53] Kristen Goodman: Their little solo moments.

[15:55] Sarah Goodman: Solo moments where like the violin sections stood up and then the banjo stood up and everything.

[16:01] Kristen Goodman: That was so cute.

[16:02] Sarah Goodman: It was also really fun hearing the tango section that happens after "Open a New Window."

[16:09] Kristen Goodman: Yeah.

[16:09] Sarah Goodman: When they're going to all the different places that's not on the recording.

[16:13] Kristen Goodman: Right.

[16:13] Sarah Goodman: You can't hear that on the cast album.

[16:15] Kristen Goodman: At least not the original cast album.

[16:17] Sarah Goodman: I don't know if there's any other like recordings of it.

[16:19] Kristen Goodman: I don't think so.

[16:20] Sarah Goodman: That whole scene is really cute where they're like traveling around New York City.

[16:25] Kristen Goodman: Yeah.

[16:26] Sarah Goodman: And how Mr. Babcock keeps following them, but then like doesn't catch them.

[16:31] Kristen Goodman: Like, how is he going to all the clubs and places immediately after?

[16:35] Sarah Goodman: But then just goes to their house.

[16:37] Kristen Goodman: That was so weird.

[16:39] Sarah Goodman: Um okay, but back to music.

[16:41] Kristen Goodman: I'm getting myself distracted.

[16:43] Sarah Goodman: Back to music.

[16:44] Kristen Goodman: Patrick's voice in my house.

[16:45] Sarah Goodman: Oh my god.

[16:47] Kristen Goodman: We both laughed out loud in TOFT while we were.

[16:50] Sarah Goodman: Oh my gosh, in that like what's the what's that section where they both come back in singing "My Best Girl"?

[16:57] Kristen Goodman: It's like, and if someday another girl comes along.

[17:04] Sarah Goodman: He was like, he was like, uh, Ethel Merman on it.

[17:09] Kristen Goodman: Oh my god, and I saw that he did an Ethel Merman impression on the Rosie O'Donnell show.

[17:16] Sarah Goodman: That was on his Wikipedia paper.

[17:18] Kristen Goodman: He would he had a belt, you know.

[17:21] Sarah Goodman: Patrick was really of anyone.

[17:24] Kristen Goodman: He was carrying all the energy in some of those scenes.

[17:27] Sarah Goodman: And I don't know if he had a lisp on purpose, but sometimes I think he'd be trying to pronounce things so crisply that he would almost like get tongue tied.

[17:39] Kristen Goodman: And I was just really I was living for Patrick's scenes.

[17:43] Sarah Goodman: He was pretty good. Because in general even though the high notes in the ensemble they were nailing it but in general I was missing that really crisp musical theater diction which again I think I clearly we're biased but the Theater at the Center production I think had better crisper cutoff.

[17:43] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, especially my mom was choral arranged like she was doing all the vocal MD stuff right like I want to hear the CK on the end of you give my old mint julep a kick I want to hear that consonants.

[17:43] Sarah Goodman: Consonants.

[17:43] Kristen Goodman: And Patrick had some consonants.

[18:26] Sarah Goodman: He was really chewing it up.

[18:26] Kristen Goodman: He was chewing it up.

[18:26] Sarah Goodman: Um I love I have a note that just says the high notes in the "It's Today" reprise.

[18:26] Kristen Goodman: Oh my god it's when they all come back in all of a sudden and they're like oh my god when they all enter their apartment.

[18:26] Sarah Goodman: Okay, the Theater at the Center had that same shaped rolling couch.

[18:26] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, I drew a picture of it. It looks like a little hat.

[18:26] Sarah Goodman: It's like a tufted, yeah, circular sofa. I don't know what that's called.

[18:26] Kristen Goodman: It's gotta have a name.

[18:26] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, but it's like a circle couch you can sit on like it's in like a lobby of a hotel column goes up tall like the back of it.

[19:17] Kristen Goodman: Right.

[19:18] Sarah Goodman: Kind of looks like a sombrero or something.

[19:21] Kristen Goodman: But the one in this show was like cheetah print tufted.

[19:26] Sarah Goodman: Oh I didn't notice that.

[19:28] Kristen Goodman: And the one at Theater at the Center I think was red in my memory or like white and red.

[19:28] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, like red with like a white ribbing something stripe kind of thing maybe.

[19:28] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, okay that leads us into sets and lighting I really was excited about the set at the beginning.

[19:28] Sarah Goodman: Me too. I thought the reveal of the New York skyline was really cool and it was an M and then it like pulled apart.

[19:54] Kristen Goodman: Oh I didn't notice that's an M.

[19:56] Sarah Goodman: It was lit up like an M at first and then it pulled apart and it had my favorite thing the like sign New York signs abstract what do you call that?

[20:07] Kristen Goodman: I need to the tableau of sign tableau marquees the marquee tableau.

[20:07] Sarah Goodman: Tableau marquee tableau explosive.

[20:07] Kristen Goodman: And I like how they yeah I like how it was like on an angled so you felt kind of like whoa off kilter there for Beekman Place where they're like you know newbies in the city.

[20:26] Sarah Goodman: And the backdrop moved up and down sometimes.

[20:29] Kristen Goodman: It's kind of cool.

[20:31] Sarah Goodman: That was cool. I thought Mame's apartment was very grand when it first appeared stairs and I loved how it changed you know when when she would be broke or when she would yeah you know update her style or whatever it the her apartment changed each time very drastically and that was cool.

[20:47] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, that was cool.

[20:48] Sarah Goodman: And um what what are we oh with regard to uh sets and lighting yes how many flying windows how many flying windows I um yeah, not the flying window thing.

[21:02] Kristen Goodman: I just don't really understand.

[21:05] Sarah Goodman: So I'm just gonna I'm just gonna say one because I don't want any more.

[21:09] Kristen Goodman: I don't even know what this one is doing here.

[21:11] Sarah Goodman: One might be too one too many for you.

[21:13] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, the flying window confused me.

[21:16] Sarah Goodman: Because what every other part of that show is like fully based in reality.

[21:22] Kristen Goodman: I'm putting in air quotes reality.

[21:24] Sarah Goodman: Right.

[21:25] Kristen Goodman: But um suddenly we're flying, bed knobs and broomsticks style.

[21:29] Sarah Goodman: Like, what are we doing with this flying window?

[21:33] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, and I understand it.

[21:35] Sarah Goodman: It is strange that it's like one of the only moments where reality is completely gone and now they're just like flying around in a window.

[21:45] Kristen Goodman: But I think that's it written in because I kind of have a memory of that of the I don't remember production.

[21:54] Sarah Goodman: Moon for sure.

[21:55] Kristen Goodman: Yeah.

[21:56] Sarah Goodman: And the moon in this Paper Mill production was cute.

[21:58] Kristen Goodman: I liked how it was kind of like satin or something.

[22:01] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, it was like softed plush looking, yeah.

[22:05] Kristen Goodman: I love "The Man in the Moon" in the "Late Is a Lady" is one of my favorite musical theater songs ever.

[22:10] Sarah Goodman: It's so ridiculous.

[22:11] Kristen Goodman: It comes out of nowhere.

[22:13] Sarah Goodman: Me too.

[22:14] Kristen Goodman: And I wish again, they would have camped it up a little more.

[22:16] Sarah Goodman: Camp it up.

[22:17] Kristen Goodman: That should be the campiest scene in the whole show.

[22:19] Sarah Goodman: It's so goofy with the—

[22:24] Kristen Goodman: Oh.

[22:26] Sarah Goodman: Like, come on.

[22:29] Sarah Goodman: Give me a break.

[22:30] Kristen Goodman: And they're like doing they have a lady astronomer.

[22:31] Kristen Goodman: This is too good.

[22:31] Sarah Goodman: Oh, I'm noticing a note about choreography that I need to say that I didn't mention during our choreography combo.

[22:36] Kristen Goodman: During "Open a New Window."

[22:40] Sarah Goodman: When the backdrop rolled up and the window flew up, all these people came in in trench coats and they were like dancing, and it looked like "Stool Boom."

[22:50] Kristen Goodman: When they're like working, making like they were doing those hand movements.

[22:54] Kristen Goodman: They were.

[22:55] Sarah Goodman: It was so weird.

[22:56] Kristen Goodman: And I just I kind of laughed at all of those costume reveals in that scene, too.

[23:01] Sarah Goodman: Oh my god.

[23:03] Kristen Goodman: Okay, sorry, I just had to I had to go back.

[23:05] Sarah Goodman: Okay, back to sets.

[23:07] Kristen Goodman: We're talking about sets, or you were talking about something funny, Vera says before Man in the Moon.

[23:12] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, I yeah, I just wish they would have camped it up even more because that scene is so hilarious, and I love how Vera says like her or her character in the show says, I a mirror woman making a shocking astronomical discovery.

[23:27] Kristen Goodman: I love that.

[23:28] Sarah Goodman: I think that's funny.

[23:30] Kristen Goodman: It's perfect, it's so perfect, and I remember that having a like a big impact on me as a kid, that scene because I remember thinking like, oh, like theater can be really goofy and really gay.

[23:51] Sarah Goodman: Like I think that was like one of the gayest scenes in theater shows, yeah.

[23:59] Kristen Goodman: Because those those chorus guys in those ridiculous leotards were having the time of their lives in that scene.

[24:15] Sarah Goodman: It's good, it's my next tattoo.

[24:18] Kristen Goodman: I want B.

[24:20] Sarah Goodman: Arthur's face in the moon, yeah.

[24:23] Kristen Goodman: And I wanted to say the man in the moon is a Miz.

[24:26] Sarah Goodman: Oh, that's the end of the song.

[24:28] Kristen Goodman: I hope you get that tattoo really soon.

[24:31] Sarah Goodman: Me too.

[24:31] Kristen Goodman: What are we giving to sets?

[24:33] Sarah Goodman: The flying windows.

[24:34] Kristen Goodman: I gave it one.

[24:35] Sarah Goodman: How many?

[24:35] Kristen Goodman: How many flying windows do you give the sets?

[24:41] Sarah Goodman: I I think I give it, I give it one flying window, but then I'm gonna take away half a pane of the window for how much I did not care for the lighting.

[24:57] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, the lighting.

[24:58] Sarah Goodman: I felt like it was dark.

[24:59] Kristen Goodman: It was dark, and it was also like, what is what is this lighting?

[25:03] Sarah Goodman: I I felt like it was either just lights up wash or dark.

[25:08] Kristen Goodman: Like right, there wasn't a lot of color or like specials.

[25:12] Sarah Goodman: There were no specials.

[25:13] Kristen Goodman: Which to me was again was just like a really missed opportunity of the magic of this show to me.

[25:22] Sarah Goodman: So yeah, I was underwhelmed for sure.

[25:25] Kristen Goodman: Even when we're in the flying window, we're not really having like a fantastical moment.

[25:30] Sarah Goodman: And maybe that's why it felt so weird is because the lighting didn't support this break in reality.

[25:37] Kristen Goodman: Next category, maybe final category.

[25:41] Sarah Goodman: Um, costumes and props.

[25:43] Kristen Goodman: Costumes and props.

[25:45] Sarah Goodman: The costumes were were pretty nice.

[25:47] Kristen Goodman: Most of them were very beautiful.

[25:49] Sarah Goodman: It was interesting to see sort of like how they were going through the time periods.

[25:53] Kristen Goodman: I was a little confused by this outfit that I drew.

[25:57] Sarah Goodman: The Mame was wearing those green with like the poofy sleeves.

[26:00] Kristen Goodman: Yeah.

[26:01] Sarah Goodman: Suddenly her apartment was like old.

[26:04] Kristen Goodman: Game of Thrones style.

[26:07] Sarah Goodman: It was like suddenly she was in Game of Thrones.

[26:10] Kristen Goodman: She was one of the knights in the round table.

[26:13] Sarah Goodman: But then her outfit was like Elizabethan meets Lucille Ball, like pants and a house dress combo.

[26:22] Kristen Goodman: It was very strange.

[26:24] Sarah Goodman: That all of that was very strange.

[26:26] Kristen Goodman: It was cool, but I was like, you look like you're in like the show gentleman jack right now or something.

[26:31] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[26:31] Kristen Goodman: You're like a lesbian landlady from England.

[26:37] Sarah Goodman: I would watch that show.

[26:39] Kristen Goodman: Yeah.

[26:40] Sarah Goodman: Um Vera's headdress in It's Today.

[26:47] Kristen Goodman: With the three feathers all going the wrong way.

[26:49] Sarah Goodman: They were so that was so strange.

[26:51] Kristen Goodman: It was weird.

[26:51] Sarah Goodman: Like I know she's supposed to be wacky, but I feel like Vera should have style.

[26:57] Kristen Goodman: She's just wacky.

[26:58] Sarah Goodman: They should be stylish.

[26:59] Kristen Goodman: They should be stylish.

[26:59] Sarah Goodman: Especially at the beginning.

[27:00] Kristen Goodman: And not like a total when they're the youngest they are, you know.

[27:04] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[27:05] Kristen Goodman: I loved at one point Mame had this like zebra coat.

[27:09] Sarah Goodman: That was gorgeous.

[27:10] Kristen Goodman: That I want so that white and that black and white zebra coat.

[27:14] Sarah Goodman: It was like what what do you call that cut where it's like billows out at the waist and or not like below the waist, like a drop.

[27:23] Kristen Goodman: It like billows out at the knee almost.

[27:25] Sarah Goodman: Ugh.

[27:25] Kristen Goodman: It's gorgeous.

[27:26] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, it was beautiful.

[27:29] Kristen Goodman: Um, Mame had a lot of different hair colors.

[27:31] Sarah Goodman: She did.

[27:32] Kristen Goodman: It kind of shocked me that she was brunette at the beginning.

[27:35] Sarah Goodman: I was like, that's a choice.

[27:36] Kristen Goodman: But then she had so many hair colors, I was like, I forgot about it by the end.

[27:40] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, it became just sort of like part of her personality that her hair changes all the time, which I was fine with because I didn't really care for any of them.

[27:49] Kristen Goodman: So I was happy when they changed.

[27:52] Sarah Goodman: But I did love her red dress in the um second act in That's how the Young I Feel.

[27:57] Kristen Goodman: That was gorgeous.

[27:58] Sarah Goodman: That with the that red jacket on top.

[28:01] Kristen Goodman: Ugh, I love that.

[28:02] Sarah Goodman: And the red hair.

[28:03] Kristen Goodman: With the red hair.

[28:04] Sarah Goodman: All of that was gorgeous.

[28:05] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, that was a really, really cool.

[28:07] Sarah Goodman: So I give the costumes five feather headdress hats.

[28:15] Kristen Goodman: It's it's how many headdress hats?

[28:17] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[28:20] Kristen Goodman: I give them five.

[28:21] Sarah Goodman: You give them five headdress hats.

[28:24] Kristen Goodman: Five feather hats.

[28:26] Sarah Goodman: I'm gonna give them four feather headdresses.

[28:31] Kristen Goodman: Okay.

[28:32] Sarah Goodman: A pair of Laducas.

[28:33] Kristen Goodman: Because they were dancing.

[28:35] Sarah Goodman: There's a lot of shoes in that show.

[28:36] Kristen Goodman: It's a lot of shoes.

[28:38] Sarah Goodman: And um that giant stuffed animal giraffe.

[28:43] Kristen Goodman: Also, because there's a lot of props in this show.

[28:45] Sarah Goodman: They got a lot of presents.

[28:46] Kristen Goodman: So many props and presents.

[28:48] Sarah Goodman: A lot of drinks and drinks.

[28:50] Kristen Goodman: So much bar action.

[28:51] Sarah Goodman: Bars, bars, bar business, drinks, business in every scene.

[28:56] Kristen Goodman: And a lot of toys.

[28:57] Sarah Goodman: Patrick's got a lot of toys.

[29:00] Kristen Goodman: So many toys.

[29:00] Sarah Goodman: And when she catches the fox and it's like a little puppy.

[29:05] Kristen Goodman: It was a puppet.

[29:06] Sarah Goodman: I wrote that.

[29:07] Kristen Goodman: I was like, that was cute.

[29:07] Sarah Goodman: And the Dalmatian stuffed plush in the fire.

[29:12] Kristen Goodman: The fire truck.

[29:12] Sarah Goodman: They had a lot of stuffed animals in this production.

[29:15] Kristen Goodman: See, the props people were trying to be campy.

[29:17] Sarah Goodman: The props people were trying to make it work.

[29:19] Kristen Goodman: They were.

[29:20] Sarah Goodman: Good job, props people.

[29:21] Kristen Goodman: Alright, I'm increasing it to six feather hats just for the props team alone.

[29:26] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[29:27] Kristen Goodman: Okay.

[29:29] Sarah Goodman: So moving on to the most problematic elements.

[29:34] Kristen Goodman: Well, we know exactly what it was.

[29:37] Sarah Goodman: Undeniably number one most problematic moment of the whole show.

[29:44] Kristen Goodman: The Confederate flag at the end of Act One.

[29:47] Sarah Goodman: Whose choice was that?

[29:49] Kristen Goodman: Sets.

[29:51] Sarah Goodman: Director.

[29:53] Kristen Goodman: Producers.

[29:55] Sarah Goodman: Who?

[29:56] Kristen Goodman: Who?

[29:56] Sarah Goodman: Who?

[29:57] Kristen Goodman: Completely unnecessary.

[29:58] Sarah Goodman: Why?

[30:00] Kristen Goodman: For why though?

[30:00] Sarah Goodman: I also wrote for why though.

[30:04] Kristen Goodman: For why, though.

[30:05] Sarah Goodman: At the end.

[30:06] Kristen Goodman: Completely unnecessary.

[30:06] Sarah Goodman: Because you know, this show I've always loved, but have been a little like embarrassed by sometimes because of the Edo character and like the some of the lyrics in the song MAME and the whole like South will rise again of it all.

[30:23] Kristen Goodman: And as we were watching it, I was thinking, this actually isn't as bad as I thought.

[30:29] Sarah Goodman: And Mame's character is always like being the progressive one in the situations.

[30:34] Kristen Goodman: And so maybe there would just be a few really slight alterations one could make in a revival.

[30:42] Sarah Goodman: You're right though.

[30:43] Kristen Goodman: She is unapologetically unconventional.

[30:46] Sarah Goodman: And it wouldn't take much to update some of the lyrics of the title song, MAME, to, you know, just make it a look, you know, not problematic anymore.

[30:57] Kristen Goodman: Just make it like more campy about the South and culture in the South and not about the South will rise again and Dixieland.

[31:06] Sarah Goodman: And then, you know.

[31:07] Kristen Goodman: A giant explosion of confetti and then a humongous, enormous Confederate flag flies on to the home, and they all pose, like hurrah.

[31:19] Sarah Goodman: That was what?

[31:21] Kristen Goodman: Much too much too much.

[31:23] Sarah Goodman: It was devastating.

[31:24] Kristen Goodman: I was we were at the library, y'all, and I screamed, Jesus at the top of my lungs when it happened.

[31:34] Sarah Goodman: Because I was so unexpected.

[31:36] Kristen Goodman: There are certain shows that you are going into expecting to see that kind of stuff.

[31:43] Sarah Goodman: Like parade.

[31:44] Kristen Goodman: Parade.

[31:44] Sarah Goodman: They had Confederate flags and parade.

[31:46] Kristen Goodman: And I know people who recently saw the, you know, limited engagement they just redid of Parade.

[31:52] Sarah Goodman: It's disturbing to see those Confederate flags.

[31:55] Kristen Goodman: But you kind of know going into it, or that's sort of the vibe that they're trying to immerse the audience in.

[32:01] Sarah Goodman: Same thing like Sound of Music.

[32:02] Kristen Goodman: You're kind of expecting to see the swastikas because we want to feel the impending doom of the Nazis.

[32:12] Sarah Goodman: But I feel like Jerry Herman didn't intend for us to feel the Southern Pride in that way.

[32:22] Kristen Goodman: I know.

[32:22] Sarah Goodman: And this was only 1999, like this was 1999.

[32:25] Kristen Goodman: 99.

[32:26] Sarah Goodman: It's not that.

[32:27] Kristen Goodman: I guess that's 25 years ago, but Jesus Christ.

[32:32] Sarah Goodman: They should have known better by that.

[32:34] Kristen Goodman: In New Jersey, they're like, let's hang a Confederate flag at the end of this celebration of MAME.

[32:41] Sarah Goodman: Absolutely not.

[32:42] Kristen Goodman: It was so completely unnecessary.

[32:45] Sarah Goodman: It was horrifying.

[32:46] Kristen Goodman: And I'm gonna just say, um, Robert, Michael, Michael, David, Mitchell, and Jim.

[32:54] Sarah Goodman: All of you are responsible for you.

[32:56] Kristen Goodman: All cancelled.

[32:56] Sarah Goodman: You're all cancelled to me.

[32:58] Kristen Goodman: How dare you?

[33:00] Sarah Goodman: Ugh, yeah.

[33:01] Kristen Goodman: So that was by far the most problematic thing that this particular production did.

[33:06] Sarah Goodman: Otherwise, I feel like the show in general could just that his dialogue is written in this like offensive, stereotypical kind of like broken English accent.

[33:21] Kristen Goodman: Instead of just being like more nuanced, it's very like tropey.

[33:27] Sarah Goodman: Trope caricature.

[33:29] Kristen Goodman: But that could be rewritten to be fine.

[33:31] Sarah Goodman: Like they don't, they don't know.

[33:33] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, there's nothing inherently wrong with his character because he's Asian.

[33:36] Sarah Goodman: They're not like he's not like experiencing discrimination ever.

[33:39] Kristen Goodman: It's just like he talks like a trope.

[33:42] Sarah Goodman: Right.

[33:43] Kristen Goodman: A caricature.

[33:44] Sarah Goodman: They literally would just need to like change the grammar of his dialogue.

[33:48] Kristen Goodman: And it would be fine.

[33:50] Sarah Goodman: Right.

[33:51] Kristen Goodman: And then like there's a couple other lines, like I hope she doesn't think we're living in the barn like gypsies.

[33:59] Sarah Goodman: Oh yeah, the gypsies come out.

[34:01] Kristen Goodman: Or what about that thing Vera said about something about when the story gets real sexy, you know, when the girl is 12?

[34:09] Sarah Goodman: Like no, I was like, and how they keep referring to like bachelor girls and things like that.

[34:16] Kristen Goodman: And the whole way that the Agnes Gooch pregnancy story, all of that would have to be like refined and updated. You know, Beauregard probably wouldn't own a plantation. Or if he did, he Charming Plantation isn't really a fun vibe for me. I don't want to go see Peckerwood. Absolutely not. But you know, for a show that debuted in what, '66, it's kind of surprising that that's all it had. And Paper Mill really made that very prong, very strong choice. Talk about the Confederate floor. Oh my god, good God. I just cannot. I was so stunned by that.

[34:57] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[35:07] Kristen Goodman: Oh, it was really hard to come back from that. It really was. And Act Two is definitely sleepier.

[35:13] Sarah Goodman: It is. Um, besides that's how young I feel.

[35:13] Kristen Goodman: Yeah.

[35:18] Sarah Goodman: So that leads me to my next question. Um, because that's my answer. So I'll tell you in advance. My favorite song and scene of the production that we saw today is "That's How Young I Feel." Because I feel like that was one of the only times where I saw Christine Ebersole actually let loose and have fun. Like she felt so reserved and so bored or something.

[35:32] Kristen Goodman: Yeah.

[35:44] Sarah Goodman: Through most of the show. And it seemed like finally the cast was like all having fun together in that moment. Normally, my favorite song is "If You Walked Into My Life."

[35:44] Kristen Goodman: Yeah.

[35:56] Sarah Goodman: It's the best song in the show. Hands down. To me, it's my favorite Jerry Herman song ever. It's one of the best songs ever. The lyrics in the best torch song.

[36:02] Kristen Goodman: The best torch song ever. Period.

[36:07] Sarah Goodman: Yes. What about you? What was your favorite song or scene from this particular show?

[36:13] Kristen Goodman: Um, I think my favorite scene is "It's Today." Because it's just so fun and goofy. And um, I love that song in general. And I agree with you that generally "If You Walked Into My Life" is like my favorite song in the score.

[36:13] Sarah Goodman: Yes.

[36:38] Kristen Goodman: Um, but I also strangely love "Saint Bridget" with all my heart. I am obsessed with that song.

[36:48] Sarah Goodman: I'm obsessed with that song.

[36:49] Kristen Goodman: I love the harmony on Beekman Place specifically when they sing it together. And like, and like I don't know what it is about that song, but I've always fucking loved that song. And then a handful of years ago, I discovered that Skitch Henderson album that is Skitch Henderson reimagining the score of MAME with a big band.

[37:14] Sarah Goodman: And the "Saint Bridget" on that album is phenomenal. It's like jazzy and it's the lead melody line is a saxophone.

[37:14] Kristen Goodman: Yeah.

[37:23] Sarah Goodman: And it's like boo-doop boop boo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-boo-doo-boo.

[37:31] Kristen Goodman: It's really good.

[37:32] Sarah Goodman: Ugh. That is a really great album. That's one of my favorite albums in your vinyl collection.

[37:37] Kristen Goodman: Me too. It does not exist anywhere streaming from what I can find.

[37:42] Sarah Goodman: It's rare. If you have a copy of Skitch Henderson's MAME, what do you call it? Like what is it?

[37:50] Kristen Goodman: I don't know. It's like Skitch Henderson and the band, Lady's MAME.

[37:53] Sarah Goodman: I'm not sure if I think that's all.

[37:55] Kristen Goodman: Yeah. If you have a copy of that, you have to let us know because it's rare. I don't think it's really out there much. People don't know. It's a thing.

[37:55] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[38:03] Kristen Goodman: It's a good one. Um, okay, so general thoughts about like anything else, like the story or um like I have I was I had so many funny thoughts as I was watching this story that, you know, it's probably been what, 15, 20 years plus that I've thought about the plot of this.

[38:03] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, you know?

[38:27] Kristen Goodman: Totally. I haven't I've listened to the music a lot, but I haven't really thought about the character motivation or like the way they're reacting in scenes or anything like that. But I just think it's really kind of funny how first of all, Mame doesn't even wonder why there's a child at the party. And then she's totally fine with that child now living in her house. That's the thing I noticed the most about the story.

[38:27] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[38:56] Kristen Goodman: She's so like game to just suddenly be a mom. Right. She's like all about it. She does not have one moment where she's just like, I hope this doesn't disrupt my lifestyle.

[38:56] Sarah Goodman: Right.

[39:08] Kristen Goodman: She's just like, oh my God, I'm in love with you. You're my little baby now. Okay. My little love. This is gonna be fun. Let's do it. She's not like, oh fuck, there's a kid here.

[39:08] Sarah Goodman: Right.

[39:22] Kristen Goodman: That's how I would react.

[39:22] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[39:25] Kristen Goodman: Also, like, she doesn't seem that upset by her brother's death or whatever.

[39:25] Sarah Goodman: Right.

[39:29] Kristen Goodman: They don't have like a mourning moment. The kid's not phased. He doesn't care. He probably barely knew it's been raised by Agnes Gooch his whole life.

[39:36] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, that's true.

[39:39] Kristen Goodman: Gooch. How come Mame doesn't know when Patrick's coming home? Like she's his guardian. Why wouldn't she know?

[39:47] Sarah Goodman: Well, but Babcock kinda took him, you know?

[39:50] Kristen Goodman: He kind of took him away. Like she didn't want him to leave. So she's his guardian, but she's not like legally his guardian, which is what I was thinking. I was like, man, they really just women don't have any rights in this time period or now, but especially not then.

[39:50] Sarah Goodman: Right.

[40:04] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, because Babcock really had a lot of power.

[40:04] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[40:07] Kristen Goodman: In this family.

[40:07] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[40:09] Kristen Goodman: So, but even when Patrick goes off to school, Agnes stays there for years. She just keeps living there.

[40:15] Sarah Goodman: She just there.

[40:17] Kristen Goodman: I love it. Where's she gonna go? I mean, it is kind of cute how Agnes and Ito pay Mame's bills when she loses all her money in the stock market crash. I also think they're kind of like a little chosen family.

[40:30] Sarah Goodman: This story is so gay.

[40:32] Kristen Goodman: Like it's so gay. Did Patrick not play his bugle? Like, did he not play that bugle?

[40:32] Sarah Goodman: No.

[40:42] Kristen Goodman: But did Jason Classic play the trumpet?

[40:47] Sarah Goodman: The trumpet. A hundred percent.

[40:48] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, he absolutely did. Did is that something they just wrote in to the Theater at the Center production? Because Jason knew how to play trumpet?

[40:53] Sarah Goodman: Maybe the original played the trumpet and Jason also knew how to play trumpet?

[40:53] Kristen Goodman: Okay.

[40:57] Sarah Goodman: It was just like a natural, let's have him do that.

[41:00] Kristen Goodman: Because when Patrick pawns his trumpet to buy the bracelet for Mame, I was like, wait a minute, you pawn that thing? I haven't even seen you play it yet.

[41:09] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, yeah, I don't think he played it.

[41:12] Kristen Goodman: She fake played it at the very top.

[41:14] Sarah Goodman: Right, right.

[41:15] Kristen Goodman: And I was like, is that her? Because she wasn't wearing the iconic gown or the hair.

[41:20] Sarah Goodman: So I was a little confused.

[41:21] Kristen Goodman: Like, is that actually her? Is this entirely modern million? Who's announcing her?

[41:25] Sarah Goodman: Why was the mom that man in drag?

[41:29] Kristen Goodman: Who was then the dad in the Connecticut? Why that? Weird.

[41:34] Sarah Goodman: And was there all the burping?

[41:36] Kristen Goodman: What was with the burping?

[41:38] Sarah Goodman: What's the burping?

[41:40] Kristen Goodman: Mother Burnside.

[41:41] Sarah Goodman: Wait, Mother Burnside?

[41:42] Kristen Goodman: Is that Mother Burnside? Burping Drag and the Confederate flag. That whole scene. That whole scene needed to be cancelled.

[41:42] Sarah Goodman: Bad.

[41:48] Kristen Goodman: It was so bad. I yeah, I was like, this, I do not remember this being a man in a dress.

[41:56] Sarah Goodman: Absolutely not.

[41:58] Kristen Goodman: She should be like an old decrepit, like Southern Belle, like former Southern Belle kind of lady.

[42:08] Sarah Goodman: Like she should be like Blanche Devereaux.

[42:10] Kristen Goodman: Right. Grandma style.

[42:10] Sarah Goodman: Right.

[42:14] Kristen Goodman: Not like Harvey Fierstein in she wishes she was Harvey Fierstein.

[42:14] Sarah Goodman: Seriously.

[42:21] Kristen Goodman: This drag queen was not serving.

[42:25] Sarah Goodman: Did not serve me.

[42:27] Kristen Goodman: Dixie Orland.

[42:29] Sarah Goodman: Or mother.

[42:30] Kristen Goodman: Mother or Burns Opper. None of that.

[42:34] Sarah Goodman: I can't unsee that Confederate flag today.

[42:36] Kristen Goodman: I can't either, but you know what we did see was all those really cool pictures at the library of opening nights. And we're gonna put some of those on our social media stuff on our Instagram and our TikTok, because oh my god, it's Angela Lansbury family, her children and her husband and her mom. They all looked so glamorous.

[42:36] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[42:55] Kristen Goodman: She and Jerry Herman getting interviewed at Sardi's after the show. They look so adorable. That rehearsal picture of her and Bea Arthur like dancing in their little like button-up shirts and tied like their Elaine Stritch outfits, you know?

[43:09] Sarah Goodman: Like they were doing a Fosse routine or something.

[43:12] Kristen Goodman: They look like Broadway Barbara or what's her name? I love her.

[43:16] Sarah Goodman: But yeah, that's what they look like.

[43:17] Kristen Goodman: And like Bea Arthur has a cigarette hanging out of her mouth sometimes in rehearsal photos. Those were great.

[43:24] Sarah Goodman: Thank you, New York Performing Arts Library, for holding on to those amazing.

[43:28] Kristen Goodman: Yeah, seriously. We got to look through like several folders, manila envelopes full of pictures and newspaper clippings and playbills and stuff.

[43:28] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[43:40] Kristen Goodman: It was awesome. Get yourself a special collections New York public library card and go check out the amazing connection they have.

[43:41] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, get a library card. There's so much cool shit at the library.

[43:41] Kristen Goodman: Yeah.

[43:55] Sarah Goodman: It was great. I loved it. And it felt very like fancy.

[43:58] Kristen Goodman: We had to put on gloves.

[43:58] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, we had to have a special appointment. They don't even let you bring a notebook; you have to put it in a locker.

[43:58] Kristen Goodman: Right, it's also just fun to look at big photos like that.

[43:58] Sarah Goodman: It is.

[43:58] Kristen Goodman: We never get to look at photos anymore, not real ones. I forgot how much fun it is to look at like eight by ten big photos, gorgeous glossy black and white photos, and they were stunning, like really amazing historical.

[43:58] Sarah Goodman: So cool.

[43:58] Kristen Goodman: So great. In addition to recording this podcast, we also present live cabaret shows featuring some of our favorite songs from these musicals. We're thrilled to be launching this first series of the pod with a very special cabaret show at 54 Below in Manhattan on August 15th.

[43:58] Sarah Goodman: Yes, and we are excited to bring this celebration cabaret to St. Louis on September 1st at Blue Strawberry. Go to our Instagram at Good Show Podcast to find more info about show times and tickets, and if you already missed those shows, don't worry, we'll be presenting a live cabaret show to accompany each of our upcoming series.

[44:51] Kristen Goodman: Thanks for listening to Good Show and thanks for following, liking, and leaving a review for the pod on your streaming platform of choice. You can find us on Instagram at Good Show Podcast.

[45:13] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, that's where we post cool archival photos from the original shows, photos of us as kids, info about our upcoming live shows, and so much more. Thanks everybody. Good show.

[45:13] Kristen Goodman: Good show.