This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Dan Tracy: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[0:02] Joe Carroll: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[0:13] Dan Tracy: One Ryan Murphy TV show.

[0:15] Joe Carroll: Murphy TV show on Netflix.

[0:17] Dan Tracy: About musicals.

[0:18] Joe Carroll: About musicals and people who dance.

[0:22] Dan Tracy: So Ryan Murphy's doing a Chorus Line miniseries on Netflix.

[0:27] Joe Carroll: This is gonna be great.

[0:28] Dan Tracy: This just came out yesterday.

[0:29] Joe Carroll: We're super excited about that.

[0:30] Dan Tracy: Yeah, that's gonna be so wild.

[0:32] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[0:32] Dan Tracy: So this week we're talking about, um, what are we talking about?

[0:35] Joe Carroll: We're talking about Chorus Line.

[0:36] Dan Tracy: We're talking about, uh, there's some more Company casting, and we have an interview with Alex Brightman and Jenny Ravitz.

[0:48] Joe Carroll: Oh my god, he just showed up.

[0:50] Dan Tracy: He's here.

[0:51] Joe Carroll: That's a bad joke.

[0:52] Dan Tracy: Um, and then, uh, Jenny Ravitz, uh, they are married.

[0:55] Joe Carroll: She is one of the casting directors at Jonathan Strauss Casting.

[0:58] Dan Tracy: They deal with, uh, Law and Order, SVU, and all of the Dick Wolf universe.

[1:03] Joe Carroll: Um, she is primarily responsible for the Chicago shows, Chicago Fire, Med, and PD.

[1:08] Dan Tracy: We talked to them about life and relationships and casting and being in, uh, an actor couple.

[1:15] Joe Carroll: Um, such a great interview, so we're gonna get to it.

[1:18] Dan Tracy: So an actor is saying his lines, and then out of nowhere, he just starts singing.

[1:34] Joe Carroll: Don't cry for me.

[1:40] Dan Tracy: So we've decided that this episode is gonna be...

[1:44] Joe Carroll: This is the last one.

[1:45] Dan Tracy: This is over.

[1:46] Joe Carroll: It's over.

[1:47] Dan Tracy: I'm done with you.

[1:49] Joe Carroll: You're done with me for like...

[1:51] Dan Tracy: Done with you.

[1:51] Joe Carroll: I'm gonna go pursue my TikTok career.

[1:54] Dan Tracy: I don't, I still don't know what TikTok is.

[1:57] Joe Carroll: Well, you should look at it.

[1:59] Dan Tracy: All right, Dan's crying.

[2:00] Joe Carroll: This is going to be the end of the first season of Guys Who Like Musicals.

[2:06] Dan Tracy: We, uh, this is, uh, our 12th week.

[2:08] Joe Carroll: Uh, we have done 12 shows.

[2:10] Dan Tracy: It is a ton of work.

[2:12] Joe Carroll: We've loved every second of it.

[2:13] Dan Tracy: Um, and what we're gonna do is take a month off and get a whole bunch more interviews and a whole bunch of content, and then we're gonna come back, uh, and pick it right back up where we left off.

[2:23] Joe Carroll: Um, but this is sort of the end of season one, and we could reflect back on season one at the beginning of season two in a month.

[2:30] Dan Tracy: How was your week, Dan?

[2:33] Joe Carroll: I asked you that the last like three or four weeks in a row, where like we get out of the intro, and I'm like, how's your week, Dan?

[2:38] Dan Tracy: I wonder if that's gonna be a thing thing.

[2:41] Joe Carroll: It was pretty good.

[2:42] Dan Tracy: Yeah, yeah, we're just getting ready to put Jordan Sparks on the show.

[2:46] Joe Carroll: So cool.

[2:46] Dan Tracy: Which is cool.

[2:47] Joe Carroll: Yep.

[2:48] Dan Tracy: And, um, yeah, anything interesting at your show?

[2:50] Joe Carroll: We just went into five-show weekends, uh, which means that we do one on Friday night, two on Saturday, and two on Sunday.

[2:57] Dan Tracy: Uh, traditionally the Broadway schedule is one Tuesday, two Wednesday, one Thursday, one Friday, two Saturday, and one matinee on Sunday.

[3:05] Joe Carroll: And this is a harder schedule post Labor Day, but, um, it promotes ticket sales.

[3:10] Dan Tracy: Um, you know, as everybody goes back to school and the Broadway gross dips, you know, you want to put butts in the seats.

[3:15] Joe Carroll: Yep.

[3:16] Dan Tracy: Um, but it's kind of a harder schedule.

[3:18] Joe Carroll: So that's been like an adjustment physically, I think for all of us.

[3:22] Dan Tracy: Um, but that's part of it.

[3:24] Joe Carroll: But like if you come to see Frozen and, uh, you see us on a Sunday night, just be gentle.

[3:30] Dan Tracy: Because they're tired.

[3:31] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[3:31] Dan Tracy: Um, but yeah, so this, uh, this week a little bit of news.

[3:34] Joe Carroll: Uh, Ryan Murphy, who loves Broadway, who we love, yeah, uh, is doing... did you see the, uh, the trailer for The Politician?

[3:41] Dan Tracy: His other show with Ben Platt.

[3:41] Joe Carroll: Ben Platt and Laura Dreyfuss.

[3:45] Dan Tracy: Um, Laura Dreyfuss said that she would come on our show.

[3:48] Joe Carroll: Did I hear him say this?

[3:49] Dan Tracy: No.

[3:50] Joe Carroll: On the podcast.

[3:51] Dan Tracy: So Laura's a good friend of mine.

[3:52] Joe Carroll: We did Once together.

[3:52] Dan Tracy: I texted her, said, will you be in the podcast?

[3:53] Joe Carroll: She said yes, but I just bought a one-way ticket to Europe, and I'm gonna be in Europe for the foreseeable future.

[3:59] Dan Tracy: So I'll text you when I get back.

[4:01] Joe Carroll: So that's what she is doing.

[4:03] Dan Tracy: Um, but that trailer for The Politician looks so cool.

[4:06] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[4:06] Dan Tracy: Um, and Ryan Murphy, I'm sure most of you know who he is, but Ryan Murphy was the creator of Glee, among many other things.

[4:14] Joe Carroll: American Horror Story, and now his, like, kind of... he's a huge fan of Broadway and clearly a huge fan of things musical theater.

[4:21] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[4:21] Joe Carroll: And this Chorus Line show is destined similar to the way that Fosse/Verdon is.

[4:26] Dan Tracy: I don't know if any of you actually watch Fosse/Verdon.

[4:29] Joe Carroll: I have figured out how FX on demand works, so I can watch it.

[4:34] Dan Tracy: Um, but there are a lot of...

[4:35] Joe Carroll: Six months later, Dan.

[4:37] Dan Tracy: But a lot of what was really great about that for us is there are a lot of Broadway performers who ended up in that show, and it was a really cool thing for the industry and a cool thing for fans of the industry to get to see those people in a different light.

[4:49] Joe Carroll: Totally.

[4:50] Dan Tracy: Um, you know, like young actors playing young Stephen Schwartz, and all these like really cool kind of... AJ Holmes was on it playing who?

[4:58] Joe Carroll: Uh, yeah, oh, um, the writer of Chicago.

[5:00] Dan Tracy: Um, Fred Kander.

[5:02] Joe Carroll: Yeah, or, um, yeah, John Kander.

[5:04] Dan Tracy: He was either John Kander or Fred Ebb.

[5:06] Joe Carroll: He was playing one of them.

[5:07] Dan Tracy: Yeah, he was playing one of them.

[5:08] Joe Carroll: So cool.

[5:08] Dan Tracy: Yeah, uh, so like that was great.

[5:10] Joe Carroll: Our friend, you know, tons of friends on that.

[5:11] Dan Tracy: And Andy Blankenbuehler, who I did Bandstand with, was a co-executive producer.

[5:16] Joe Carroll: And, like, so all of the dancers, it was like all the Bandstand dancers.

[5:19] Dan Tracy: Ryan Vandenboom, uh, was the, uh, uh, the... who got the pain, uh, who got the pain when they do the mom book, got the pain button, they can go URP.

[5:27] Joe Carroll: They... he was Bob Fosse, young Bob Fosse dancing opposite Michelle Williams.

[5:31] Dan Tracy: That was crazy.

[5:32] Joe Carroll: That's really cool.

[5:33] Dan Tracy: Um, you know, stuff like that.

[5:34] Joe Carroll: So if you haven't seen that, really check it out.

[5:36] Dan Tracy: But Chorus Line, now Ryan Murphy's gonna do something similar with Chorus Line, it sounds like, which is gonna be anything.

[5:40] Joe Carroll: And that's gonna be an awesome opportunity for so many people and will be a cool thing to look at.

[5:44] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[5:45] Joe Carroll: Um, they just announced a little more casting for this revival of Company that we're totally stoked about.

[5:49] Dan Tracy: Katrina Lenk playing Bobby.

[5:51] Joe Carroll: I mean, we've talked... the only reason we bring this up is because we talked about it on the show and how excited we were for that to come back because that original, um, that cast recording from London is just epically beautiful, and I can't wait to see this revival.

[6:05] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[6:05] Joe Carroll: Uh, Katrina Lenk, just to make it all about me again.

[6:08] Dan Tracy: We did Once together.

[6:09] Joe Carroll: She really?

[6:10] Dan Tracy: Yeah, she took over for Elizabeth A. Davis in Once.

[6:13] Joe Carroll: She plays the piss out of the violin.

[6:15] Dan Tracy: She, uh, played Arachne in Spider-Man.

[6:17] Joe Carroll: She left Spider-Man to take over in Once, and she was great.

[6:23] Dan Tracy: She's brilliant.

[6:25] Joe Carroll: But then she leaves Once and got on a goddamn rocket ship to the moon and is now a Tony winner.

[6:31] Dan Tracy: Like, I thought you were saying she literally got on a rocket ship.

[6:34] Joe Carroll: I was like, yeah, yeah.

[6:35] Dan Tracy: She's friends with Richard Branson, and they went and she went on a rocket ship.

[6:38] Joe Carroll: No, like it just... she went from being like any of us, uh, working stiff, working on Broadway, jumping from show to show, making a living.

[6:50] Dan Tracy: You'd never heard of her, but hey, I think I've seen you in something.

[6:52] Joe Carroll: And then The Band's Visit happened, and she has just been rightfully, uh, and deservedly on a total rocket ship.

[7:00] Dan Tracy: And I so... and like this... she will be heavily in contention for all that award stuff.

[7:05] Joe Carroll: Not that awards matter, but my lord, is it fun to see your friends nominated for Tony Awards?

[7:10] Dan Tracy: Um, totally.

[7:11] Joe Carroll: So that's gonna be super cool.

[7:12] Dan Tracy: And there's more casting that actually we know about, but we can't say.

[7:16] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I'm really excited to see who around that casting.

[7:19] Dan Tracy: The industry.

[7:20] Joe Carroll: So, uh, which is super silly.

[7:22] Dan Tracy: Um, but yeah, so that was a couple things this week.

[7:25] Joe Carroll: Um, yeah.

[7:28] Dan Tracy: Cool.

[7:28] Joe Carroll: Cool.

[7:29] Dan Tracy: Um, you love anything this week?

[7:31] Joe Carroll: We haven't done things you love in a couple weeks.

[7:34] Dan Tracy: You have one, right?

[7:35] Joe Carroll: I do.

[7:35] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[7:36] Joe Carroll: Um, it is college pre-screen audition season.

[7:41] Dan Tracy: It's college audition season.

[7:43] Joe Carroll: And, uh, I work with a lot of students, um, who are prepping for their college auditions.

[7:48] Dan Tracy: Um, some of them and some of their parents actually listen to the podcast, which is amazing.

[7:52] Joe Carroll: Uh, so hi guys.

[7:53] Dan Tracy: Um, but I just want to give a shout out to everybody prepping for their college auditions because we remember what that's like.

[8:00] Joe Carroll: It is horrible and nerve-wracking, and we didn't go through the pre-screen phase where you have to actually make videos.

[8:05] Dan Tracy: And if for anybody who doesn't know, if you're applying to drama school now, you have to make an audition video, you have to send it in, they have to approve it, and then you can go and do a live audition at the university.

[8:15] Joe Carroll: And so there's this whole added step in the age of, you know, everybody having cameras on their phones, um, where everybody has to make these videos, and it's stressful.

[8:22] Dan Tracy: And I'm just... I love all of you for doing it.

[8:26] Joe Carroll: Um, and that gets me excited because it's this time of year that is very stressful but always also very inspiring.

[8:32] Dan Tracy: Um, and I use this quote, uh, like a quote, um, from Jersey Boys, where, uh, at the end, um, Frankie says, you know, they asked me what was the high point, uh, when it was four guys under a street lamp with it all still ahead of us.

[8:46] Joe Carroll: Uh, that was the high point.

[8:47] Dan Tracy: And so I think that everybody, you know, if you're applying for colleges right now, you're standing under a street lamp and it's all still ahead of you.

[8:52] Joe Carroll: So, uh, keep it up.

[8:55] Dan Tracy: That's what I love this week.

[8:57] Joe Carroll: I kind of wanted to talk about my Frozen experience.

[9:00] Dan Tracy: I think you should.

[9:01] Joe Carroll: Can I?

[9:02] Dan Tracy: Yes.

[9:02] Joe Carroll: Can we please?

[9:03] Dan Tracy: Cool.

[9:04] Joe Carroll: Um, so I love this.

[9:06] Dan Tracy: I love what you're about to love.

[9:09] Joe Carroll: So, what I love this week, I had a really interesting experience that I'm just gonna... that I was kind of not sure I wanted to share, but that I want to share in full detail just because I think it gives people a better understanding of like patience in the industry and kind of the long game.

[9:26] Dan Tracy: I got an audition last week on a Tuesday to understudy my best friend Joe in Frozen on Broadway.

[9:35] Joe Carroll: And yes, you heard that right.

[10:02] Dan Tracy: And I jumped at the opportunity because I love, um, the character that Joe is playing, and my show is closing, and I love the team that's involved.

[10:02] Joe Carroll: I've worked with the music supervisor at, um, Frozen before.

[10:02] Dan Tracy: His name's Brian Yusaf, and he's a great guy, and he loves food, and he's great to talk about food and anything traveling and all that.

[10:02] Joe Carroll: So I jumped at the opportunity and I went in and I prepped all this material for the role of Hans, and I prepped the Pabby material too because it was potentially understudying that, and I went in and killed it, crushed it, left the audition being like, yeah, I'm gonna book this.

[10:22] Dan Tracy: This is awesome.

[10:23] Joe Carroll: He's real modest, ladies and gentlemen.

[10:25] Dan Tracy: But, um, but normally, I don't know.

[10:29] Joe Carroll: Yeah, sure.

[10:30] Dan Tracy: But for context, like normally I don't feel like that, and normally I don't prep that seriously, and not always am I feeling like I work well with the team behind the table and all of those things, taking adjustments and figuring out kind of like what we're supposed to be doing.

[10:48] Joe Carroll: Because you can't just kind of do whatever you want.

[10:50] Dan Tracy: You have to fit within how everything works.

[10:52] Joe Carroll: And so I left being like, okay, cool, I'm probably gonna get a callback for this, hopefully gonna get a callback for this, but probably, right?

[10:59] Dan Tracy: Because I was being optimistic.

[11:01] Joe Carroll: And so I contacted one of our friends who's a swing in Frozen, and I said, hey, do you mind can we get a studio and work on the dance for Frozen?

[11:13] Dan Tracy: Because I know that this track is a heavy dance track.

[11:15] Joe Carroll: And he was like, yeah, sure, great.

[11:17] Dan Tracy: So we get in the studio and we're working, and he's like, so when's your, uh, final... when's your dance callback for this?

[11:24] Joe Carroll: And I was like, oh, well, I don't... I don't have one.

[11:28] Dan Tracy: And he's like, oh, okay, cool.

[11:30] Joe Carroll: Yeah, sure, well, just, you know, let me know when it happens and whatever, and we'll work on it anyway.

[11:34] Dan Tracy: So we spent two hours in the studio and I bought them lunch and I bought the studio, and $150, I found out yesterday that I don't have a callback for Frozen, that it's not going any further for this track.

[11:45] Joe Carroll: And I say all of that to get to the place of letting everyone know that, you know, sometimes you do something for the right reasons, and the way that those things play out, you could never expect.

[12:02] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[12:03] Joe Carroll: So this... and the only reason I believe in all of this is because this is what happened with me getting into Waitress, that it was like four auditions for that creative team later that I ended up in Waitress having been auditioning for in, in, in callbacks for the Waitress national tour, which is why I ended up in Waitress on Broadway in the first place.

[12:23] Dan Tracy: It's like all of these things, you never really know how they're gonna play out.

[12:26] Joe Carroll: And I could be really bummed and mad that I spent all this money to learn this stuff.

[12:32] Dan Tracy: But if someday, seven or eight years from now, I walk into a partnering audition and they ask me to do a similar lift to the one I learned on Saturday.

[12:43] Joe Carroll: Yeah, it's worth it.

[12:45] Dan Tracy: And I just love that story so much because you took so much initiative.

[12:50] Joe Carroll: It was expensive, but I also am a firm believer that, like, w... the... which you, you know, the love you make is equal to the love you take, sort of, you know, the love you take is equal...

[12:50] Dan Tracy: What is it?

[12:50] Joe Carroll: The love you take is equal to the love you make.

[13:07] Dan Tracy: So you... whatever you put out, you also will get back.

[13:11] Joe Carroll: So you spent all of this time and energy and money on this audition, and it's not gonna go any further because it is for one of the heaviest dance tracks in the show.

[13:19] Dan Tracy: And we talked last week about, you know, your lack of dance ability.

[13:23] Joe Carroll: Right.

[13:23] Dan Tracy: And, but like multiple people came up to me in the building and were like, Dan nailed it.

[13:29] Joe Carroll: He absolutely crushed it.

[13:30] Dan Tracy: Which is a great audition.

[13:32] Joe Carroll: And like that's... but that's what it takes.

[13:34] Dan Tracy: It takes that amount of focus and dedication to prep all that material.

[13:37] Joe Carroll: And like how many pages of material do you think you had to do in the audition?

[13:41] Dan Tracy: Uh, like what I ended up actually doing was not nearly as much as I prepared.

[13:45] Joe Carroll: Sure.

[13:46] Dan Tracy: You know, you prepare how it is, yeah.

[13:47] Joe Carroll: You prepare like close to 30.

[13:49] Dan Tracy: Yeah, and I did maybe... I did the two songs and two scenes, so it was, you know, it ended up being like 12 or something.

[13:55] Joe Carroll: But I still had to have all this...

[13:56] Dan Tracy: You still had to prep for the test.

[13:58] Joe Carroll: And all of this is not to, like, you know, wax my ego or to talk about anything that is happening.

[14:04] Dan Tracy: Just to remind everyone that this week I love the long game.

[14:08] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[14:08] Dan Tracy: And love patience.

[14:10] Joe Carroll: And you have to love... you have to teach yourself, because I don't want to pretend like I always love the journey.

[14:16] Dan Tracy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[14:16] Joe Carroll: But what I'm trying to learn is that the... it's about the journey. That's what is it? That's what's really... if you can learn to love the process in this business, then you can make it. That is making it.

[14:16] Dan Tracy: You know, bums me out because I really wanted to go to work with you every day.

[14:33] Joe Carroll: But you never know who... who knows what'll happen.

[14:38] Dan Tracy: It's not about the short term, it's about the long term, it's about the journey.

[14:39] Dan Tracy: It's very cool.

[14:40] Joe Carroll: For sure.

[14:40] Joe Carroll: Cool.

[14:40] Dan Tracy: Um, so right into it we have an interview with Alex Brightman and Jenny Ravitz, and I'm super excited about this because Jenny sent me a message on Instagram after like the second or third episode of Guys Who Like Musicals and was like, this is awesome.

[14:56] Joe Carroll: Like you love the show and I was like we I want to talk to you. Can we please talk to you because I have a really personal connection to Jenny and to Alex. Alex and I have been friends for a while. We both have been friends with Alex for a while but Jenny cast me in Chicago Fire um and I it's not a great story and we talk about this in the interview about how like actors think they have great stories about when they get cast or not cast on things and it's actually not as good of a story as we think it is but it was fun because I just I wanted to do such a good job when I went in for that audition because I think so highly of Jenny and I really wanted to do the show and I had never auditioned for that office before and I really didn't want to suck and I was I was nervous and I thought that I sucked and uh I thought I didn't get it.

And then I was standing in this living room and I got a call from my agent that I I got it and I went to Chicago for two weeks and shot the show. And so we get into a lot of that. And I just, Jenny is such a wonderful, compassionate casting director and artist. And so we I it just was so awesome to talk to her and her two-time Tony nominated husband, who happened to be happened to be there as well. For those of you who don't know Alex Brightman, um he made his Broadway debut as Bach in Wicked, which he did for two years, and then went on to uh play a leading role in Big Fish, and he was also in Matilda the musical before uh being cast as Dewey Finn in School of Rock on Broadway. Crazy. Uh which nominated which earned him his first Tony nomination, and now he's playing Beetlejuice in Beetlejuice.

Maybe you've heard of it. We sat and also was nominated for a Tony Award for that. I was sitting right underneath uh both of his Tony nominations were hanging out of wall in the apartment in their apartment. And I was like sitting beneath the Tony Awards, which is kind of cool. Jenny makes a joke about it at one point. And we love Alex for lots of reasons, but Alex was one of the first people to foster our not significant writing career. We've written a few things together, and Alex was one of the people who read our work and was like, Yeah, you guys have something here. This is great. You need to do this, this, and that. So for those of you who only know Alex, who do know Alex and know him as this like Broadway star, which he clearly is, he's also a multi hyphen it and is a genius writer.

He's written a ton of stuff and he and at the absolute highest level, too. And he's always he's always writing and creating and and fostered that in us, and and we love him for it. Before we jump in, just one quick little uh disclaimer, because I'm not sure if it was absolutely clear. I think we talk about it in the beginning, but they just got this beautiful tan chihuahua named Kevin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we interviewed them in their apartment with Kevin with Kevin there, and it made everyone a lot happy. We we were so happy. So here is our interview with Alex Brightman, Jenny Ravitz, and Kevin.

[17:46] Dan Tracy: Jenny, Alex, thank you for allowing us in your home on a Sunday morning.

[17:50] Jenny Ravitz: Thank you for having us.

[17:52] Alex Brightman: Thank you, yes, for us having you in your home.

[17:56] Dan Tracy: But we like I feel like we could talk to the two of you individually for a long time about what you do and the career and the whole thing. But we wanted to talk to the two of you together because you have no time to spend together because you're on opposite schedules, and we're gonna take up a couple hours of that on Sunday morning. Here we are.

[18:22] Joe Carroll: How did you fold in Lerve?

[18:24] Jenny Ravitz: Tinder.

[18:25] Alex Brightman: Tinder.

[18:26] Jenny Ravitz: Nice. Love it. Everyone thinks we're joking when we say.

[18:31] Alex Brightman: Yeah, Tinder 1.0. Uh we were. You couldn't upgrade to any sort of features that I see all the kids upgrading to these days. I don't even know who they are, to be honest. But it was just like swipe or not.

[18:42] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah.

[18:43] Alex Brightman: One way or the other. And uh I was like in a habit of deleting Tinder and then re-downloading Tinder and then deleting Tinder. And so frequently what would happen is I would match with someone and then delete Tinder, and then that person would come up again as a match. And uh so it was uh it was actually this weekend five years ago.

[19:09] Jenny Ravitz: Yep.

[19:09] Alex Brightman: Oh wow so it's kind of cool that you're here.

[19:11] Jenny Ravitz: Yes.

[19:12] Alex Brightman: I love it. Uh I uh re-downloaded Tinder after uh a guy canceled a date and I was already dressed. It was like five minutes before the date, and he canceled, and so I was like, Well, I'm not going to waste my time here. I was like, I gotta take this dress out for a spin. I I downloaded Tinder, and the very first face that came up was Alex, and I swiped right in, and immediately came up as a match. So he was clearly on Tinder at the exact same time.

[19:41] Alex Brightman: And so yeah, because there wasn't a moment in that point where I was untouched.

[19:45] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, that was very true. And so I sent him oh, and his profile said, not looking for anything serious. Nice a cuddle, a drink, that's it. Oh, like that's I stand by that by the way. I'm not not proud of that. So I was like, that sounds like a fun thing for when you're already dressed and like you have nothing to lose at this point. And um, I I send him a message, and I said, We've matched before because I have a photographic memory, so I remembered that we'd matched. Um, I think Tinder is telling us to grab a beer or make out, and he thought I was a bot.

[20:26] Alex Brightman: Yeah, because literally my track record is no one ever saying that to me, ever. Especially not like being that bold, and I just sort of, yeah, I was like, Well, those are two of my favorite things.

[20:39] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, and so let's hang out.

[20:41] Alex Brightman: It's perfect. And uh we and he was like, Those are two of my favorite things. We chatted, we exchanged numbers, and then we met up, and we talked like absolute crazy about everything. We talked about theater, we talked about our careers, and Alex's favorite thing is I told him at one point I was proud of him for his accomplishments.

[21:02] Alex Brightman: Within an hour of knowing me.

[21:04] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, and it was I'd never been told that by like somebody a stranger, nonetheless, like you know, just the idea of somebody being like genuinely going, Wow, I'm so proud of you. Yeah, it like shocked me to my core, and I in that moment didn't have like one of those, oh, this is gonna be the person I'm gonna marry. But now I think back on it, I was like, that was very interesting. It's an interesting thing to know that somebody can be that open in an hour of meeting you. So it sort of like shocked me. And then I thought I would never see him again.

[21:30] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[21:30] Jenny Ravitz: And then he didn't stop texting me.

[21:32] Alex Brightman: That's correct.

[21:33] Jenny Ravitz: Nice. You tell me you're proud of me once, and I will I will shut down a cell phone tower.

[21:38] Alex Brightman: Joe, I'm proud of you.

[21:39] Joe Carroll: Yeah, thank you so much, Joe. What are you doing later?

[21:43] Alex Brightman: Um, and I so I love the origin story. It's you know a classic.

[21:46] Joe Carroll: Uh yeah, totally.

[21:47] Alex Brightman: It happens all the time.

[21:49] Joe Carroll: It's a classic of the new millennia.

[21:50] Alex Brightman: Yeah. Um, but what I what I wanted to get to that too, and you mentioned it this as we were starting, like, you are on opposite schedules now. I mean, you are casting night, probably eight to eight, or say, you know, 12 hours a day, and then you go to work. And so it's like, how do you that's one of my most sort of the the biggest questions of the day for the both of you? Like, how how do you keep it, you know?

[22:12] Jenny Ravitz: We are ships passing in the night for sure.

[22:15] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[22:15] Jenny Ravitz: Um, we see each other a total, if it's a like one of those days that you just described, right? A total of what an hour and a half, like of actual seeing each other.

[22:24] Alex Brightman: I think Nick and I are a half counting sleep in the morning.

[22:27] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, I mean, we sleep in the same bed, but that's not seeing each other.

[22:31] Alex Brightman: Um but like it's the beginning and the end of every day. We see each other, and usually one of us is exhausted or already asleep or waking up and having to leave, and the other one's asleep. And uh it's tough, but it's also it is, in my opinion, you know, it's not the most ideal thing for someone you want to hang out with all the time because you want to hang out with them all the time.

[22:51] Jenny Ravitz: Right.

[22:52] Alex Brightman: Uh but what's great is that it gives you a chance to really do miss somebody. And I do think that absence makes the heart grow fonder for sure.

[22:59] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah.

[23:00] Alex Brightman: Um, but also you gain you gather stories separately, and it's fun to tell someone stories so you don't always experience the same things together, so then you have nothing to talk about.

[23:09] Jenny Ravitz: Absolutely.

[23:10] Alex Brightman: You get the legitimate like, how was your day? And you have like here's your air. And yeah, if you were together all day, you were like, How was my day? I was with you.

[23:18] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah.

[23:18] Alex Brightman: Um, I think it would be great, but I think what makes it even better is that when we have the moment to actually go on a vacation, then it's like the best.

[23:26] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah.

[23:27] Alex Brightman: And that was like our honeymoon was like the greatest moment of my life because it was like we hadn't done that, and then we got seven days of just each other.

[23:34] Jenny Ravitz: Right.

[23:34] Alex Brightman: Right.

[23:34] Jenny Ravitz: And it was incredible. And you don't realize how much you like crave that.

[23:37] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[23:38] Jenny Ravitz: I was just asked this question by Samantha Missel.

[23:41] Alex Brightman: I saw her yesterday.

[23:42] Jenny Ravitz: Killer on the Roof, Broadway, Revival, Samantha Massel.

[23:45] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[23:46] Jenny Ravitz: And uh she, and I I didn't know what the answer was. I I was like, I I don't know how we do that. I don't know how we stay on opposite schedules and still love and respect each other. Maybe part of it is when we are together, we talk and we don't really let like we're not on our phones, we're not watching TV, like when he comes home at night or when I come home at night, we chat about our day, we talk about what's happening.

[24:14] Alex Brightman: And then we also have a few times during the day where we talk.

[24:17] Jenny Ravitz: So like there are three times during Beetlejuice where we connect. So like the first one we call it brain wig, where Alex puts on a wig. If anyone's seen the show, it's when I have a wig that you know, I rip the scalp off and it's a brain, and I'm getting into that and it takes a little while, so I have time to text.

[24:31] Alex Brightman: Nice, nice.

[24:33] Jenny Ravitz: Intermission.

[24:35] Alex Brightman: Final change.

[24:36] Jenny Ravitz: Nice.

[24:37] Alex Brightman: So he'll just check in. What are you doing? And usually, you know, brainwig, I'm on my way home from work. And uh we have shorthand. Intermission, it's like I'm home, and so it's like we we definitely know Final Change.

[24:51] Jenny Ravitz: She's usually deleting Postmates because she's ordered something she didn't want to have ordered.

[24:56] Alex Brightman: It's really shameful.

[24:57] Jenny Ravitz: I just deleted Postmates yesterday.

[25:00] Alex Brightman: Postmates is my new Tinder.

[25:01] Jenny Ravitz: Oh my god. Download it and delete it. I it's really shameful that you can get McDonald's delivered to your door.

[25:10] Alex Brightman: Yep.

[25:11] Jenny Ravitz: Too easy. You know, there was like shame involved before it was like, am I really gonna go in this McDonald's and order something?

[25:17] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[25:17] Jenny Ravitz: And there's a sweet green across the street.

[25:19] Alex Brightman: Sweet green's right here.

[25:21] Jenny Ravitz: You really don't have an excuse.

[25:22] Alex Brightman: Yeah, yeah.

[25:24] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[25:25] Alex Brightman: And so it's you're like, I I can't just go in, like, that's shameful, like show my face. But now it's someone else has to show their face and just breathe to my door.

[25:35] Jenny Ravitz: It's very like, very like Russian czar, like, bring it to me.

[25:39] Alex Brightman: Yes, yes, yes. Can I say one more thing about the thing that I think also helps is that we have a thing and it's very quirky. Um, but it is I've told this to a couple people in relationships that were starting in relationships, or uh, you know, whenever I'm asked about that that question that you hate getting, which is like, how do you make it work?

[25:56] Jenny Ravitz: Which is like nothing.

[25:57] Alex Brightman: The question you just got from me.

[25:58] Jenny Ravitz: Well, but it's no, but it's not but it's but yours is more yours is more detailed.

[26:02] Alex Brightman: It's not it's not like wow, five years, what's the secret? There's no secret. And the what one thing we have done, which I think is interesting, is any time one of us walks through that door and the other one is sitting on this couch, uh, we applaud each other.

[26:13] Jenny Ravitz: Um but not in a sort of like, oh now I gotta do the thing. It's like there's an excitement of someone coming home, and there's like a applause.

[26:19] Alex Brightman: Even before the door opens, I hear it's like it's like walking into like applause and it's funny and it's interesting. I don't even know how it's starting.

[26:27] Jenny Ravitz: That's hilarious.

[26:27] Alex Brightman: That's the best thing, though. I mean, I think that's it, it's hilarious, but it's never not been a thing.

[26:31] Jenny Ravitz: I really like it.

[26:32] Alex Brightman: To the point where when sometimes like if she's like working, yeah, and I'll come in, I'll be like, I'm sorry, I'm very used to applause. So if you could I'll go back out.

[26:40] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, I need to try that again.

[26:42] Alex Brightman: Oh my gosh. So what I what I'm gathering from that is that you need applause at all times to get through life, basically.

[26:47] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah.

[26:47] Alex Brightman: So if you see Alex Brightman on the street, the way that his love one of his love languages is emerging.

[26:53] Jenny Ravitz: He's a new love language.

[26:54] Alex Brightman: Applause.

[26:55] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah.

[26:56] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[26:57] Jenny Ravitz: It is.

[26:57] Alex Brightman: That and saying you're funny.

[26:58] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah.

[26:59] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[27:00] Jenny Ravitz: You need somebody to say you're proud of you.

[27:02] Alex Brightman: I mean, that's like we go back to it a little bit.

[27:05] Joe Carroll: No, I know. You just you're nodding your head at going forward.

[27:08] Dan Tracy: Um, and I actually haven't seen either of you since the really since the wedding. I mean, it's you can't you're coming up on an anniversary, right?

[27:14] Jenny Ravitz: We just passed one.

[27:15] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[27:15] Jenny Ravitz: Congratulations.

[27:16] Alex Brightman: Thank you.

[27:17] Jenny Ravitz: Made it a year.

[27:17] Alex Brightman: We did it.

[27:18] Jenny Ravitz: We did.

[27:18] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[27:18] Jenny Ravitz: We kind of for we actually this we're the worst married couple because neither of us could remember what day we got married.

[27:25] Alex Brightman: We like knew it was May.

[27:26] Jenny Ravitz: It was only a year ago.

[27:27] Alex Brightman: And we were like, it wasn't. It's in the middle or near the end of May. And we were we were in a cab with our friend, and our friend knew our wedding anniversary, and we didn't so we have to get better at that.

[27:38] Jenny Ravitz: So we decided because we don't know how old Kevin is, and like New York requires you to get Kevin's the dog. Kevin is our dog. He's sitting right here. We didn't know how old Kevin was, and New York requires you to get a New York uh dog license to register them, and you have to pick a birthday, an actual date. So we gave him our wedding anniversary in hopes that that would make us remember it.

[28:00] Dan Tracy: So this kind of goes back to like when you guys met. Where were you at, Jenny, in your um in your the path of your career when you guys met? Were you working in casting at that time?

[28:09] Jenny Ravitz: Right now you're you're working at Jonathan Strauss's office. We were just talking before we started that you started you went to musical theater school.

[28:18] Alex Brightman: I did, yeah.

[28:18] Jenny Ravitz: I went to college for musical theater. I did pretty much knew I wasn't gonna be an actor, and they let me sort of design my own major. And so I was doing everything from stage management to uh assistant directing to being a teacher's assistant.

[28:33] Alex Brightman: She went to Shenandoah University.

[28:35] Jenny Ravitz: I did. And I found casting via that avenue, and casting directors were coming down and doing workshops, and I thought that's what I should be doing. That's where my skill set lies. So I went immediately into casting upon graduation and uh was working in it um pretty much my very first day in New York. I was that and a bartender and trying to make some money. And so when Alex and I met, I was um I think I had just been promoted uh to a casting director on the Chicago shows. And I remember that before we met, I went through my email. I keep a record of every audition that I've ever had to make sure I never auditioned him before. Because if I had, I wasn't going to meet him.

[29:23] Jenny Ravitz: And look at That's a good rule.

[29:25] Alex Brightman: It is a good rule. I just, you know, I never want there to be any sort of power imbalance in any way, and I didn't want him to feel like he needed to meet me as like a way to boost his career. Not that he was doing quite fine without me. And that was something as well. He'd already been in four Broadway shows, and so I was like, he doesn't need me to gain any more success in any way. And so luckily I had never auditioned him. I had checked his availability and he was not available. So never got the audition. Yeah, and I did get the wife.

[30:02] Jenny Ravitz: Nice. And um, so I but I do remember being like a little nervous about the fact that he was an actor, but I got some really great advice. Our dog Kevin is literally walking on the coffee table right now. He wants Kevin, do you have anything to say? Kevin, anything to add? Um, I lost track because this dog is just so cute. Uh, we I remember thinking like this might be sort of an odd thing to do is to date an actor.

[30:37] Alex Brightman: Had you ever dated an actor before?

[30:39] Jenny Ravitz: Um, I've gone on a date or two with an actor who I actually thought via his online profile was a musician. And then I was like kind of like, oh, a little surprised when we met that I recognized him from being an actor in the business.

[30:56] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[30:57] Jenny Ravitz: And uh, but I I got great advice from a casting director who shall remain nameless. She said, when you are an artist in any way, shape, or form, you don't get to turn that part of you off. So you have to have a partner who is able to engage that part of you at all times. And whether that's someone who makes a genuine interest in your art and what you do, or someone who does their own art as well, so you can speak the same language. And so that to me just was so important. I thought I have to be able to talk about my job. And with Alex, there was no, I was saying, oh, I have to set up a session for today, or producers and using lingo about television, and there was no explaining it. He knew exactly what it was, and that was so easy for me.

[31:51] Alex Brightman: I love that. It's nice to be able to talk about a lot of things in the same field, but not have to feel like we are. And this is gonna say I know that people listening that are in relationships with actors or not will understand what I'm about to say. That to not feel like you're in competition with the person that you're in love with is real. And I had experienced it not just once in one relationship, but in many relationships, that whether it was very present or not, it was still felt like my, you know, my certain successes were someone else's failures.

[32:21] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, and whether or not that's like true a thousand percent, it's definitely true some percent, right? A lot of the time, if you are both in the same field, I think, and the way you navigate that's the way you navigate that. But what's great is that she gets what I do, she doesn't do what I do, she did what I did. Uh-huh. Um, I respect what she does. I it's our lives blood. I mean, casting directors and actors, it's totally literally they're our lives blood. We have to have this symbiotic relationship, so it is nice. It is also nice because we can talk about other shit.

[32:51] Alex Brightman: Yeah, it's not just coming home and talking about theater, it's like we have such diversified interests outside of even the arts, yeah. That we, you know, we she turned me on to basketball and football, and now I'm an enormous basketball fan. Yeah, um, you know, but so it's like things like that. You would never get that if you just dated somebody who's I'm an actor and that's all I do, right?

[33:10] Jenny Ravitz: Right, right.

[33:11] Alex Brightman: Yeah, right, right. But it is really nice. I made a uh Sound of Music reference earlier today, you know.

[33:17] Jenny Ravitz: This morning, yeah.

[33:18] Alex Brightman: Uh when they they win the competition and they say the family Von Trapp.

[33:23] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[33:23] Alex Brightman: And the music plays and they don't come out, yeah. The Von Trapp family singers, they don't come out and then they go they're gone and run away. And Alex immediately joined in on that. Um I was like laughing so hard and I was like, I'm so glad I'm married to someone who gets that reference and wasn't looking at me like, what was that's ridiculous. This person is totally insane.

[33:47] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah.

[33:47] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[33:47] Jenny Ravitz: Well, and then just like back to like how you guys support each other, because and I want to get to more of this later, but like you're both so multi-faceted as artists. I mean, with the writing and the producing and the creating, and constantly like trying to, you know, and and as far as Dan and I are concerned, you two were literally the first two people who supported us with writing back in this was like 2015. We wrote this silly thing about a brewery, and you both were like, you were like, This you do this, this is good. Like, you know, and you you were you're so supportive in that way. And so I wonder what you do kind of for each other, you know, in that way, because I know that that casting and you know, all of all of the Chicago shows is is both incredibly time consuming.

Um, but also, you know, there's other things that you want to do, and then you're in, you know, obviously in Beetlejuice, and now that now that the uh the sort of all of the glitz of an opening a show is over, now you're in the run. It's like now I'm sure it's back to sort of like you would like what keeps you creatively fulfilled.

[34:46] Alex Brightman: Absolutely. I'm wondering like how you guys do that for each other.

[34:49] Jenny Ravitz: We we do it for each other, we we encourage each other it just with first of all, just straight up encouragement. There are moments where of the day where we'll just be chatting on, you know, Gmail or whatever when she's at work, and I will remind her that's like you know, I just had a session when it was it was exhausting or it was you know really fulfilling. And I'll just say something which is genuine, not just to pump her up, to say, it's so cool to know that you're about to give somebody an opportunity. Right to you're putting people on television, you're literally making people's dreams come true. Absolutely, and that's real, and that's you know, and that's how an actor would feel, that's how I would feel.

So there's that. Um, when Jenny writes something, because she's a fantastic writer, um, and by virtue of not only being creative and in you know and studied and uh you know a really uh quick study on new material, she also reads thousands of scripts a week. Right. So she knows not only how to write them but how to format them. So when she writes a first draft, it's like shot ready. It's like it's really infuriating as somebody who's trying to do that also to read something that's like ready to go, and I'm still like can you read my treatment? Um but it's great, and then you know the encouragement comes from like, well, what are you gonna do with this? Right. And you know, when the answer is, oh, I just wrote it because I had an idea, I was like, nope, it can't just stop there. I mean it can, but I'm gonna encourage you not to.

[36:02] Alex Brightman: Right.

[36:02] Jenny Ravitz: Um and I think with the difference between Alex and I is I do a bit of a thankless job. You know, once in a while I'll get a very nice set of cupcakes from someone that I might have cast on Chicago Fire, I don't know what you're talking about. He's a sweetheart. You know, a casting director's job ends after you negotiate their deal, and an actor goes on to do a million other things, and you might never see that actor again. And so getting a thank you is is rare. And Alex reminds me that what I do is important. And so when I have a late night, so sometimes on Monday nights, that's the only night that we really like get to hang out. And I'll you know, be at the office late, and instead of getting upset that I'm at the office late, he writes back, hardest working gal in show business.

[37:04] Alex Brightman: HW G I S B.

[37:05] Jenny Ravitz: HW G I S B.

[37:06] Jenny Ravitz: Yes.

[37:06] Alex Brightman: What?

[37:08] Alex Brightman: Hardest Working Gal in Show Business. We should get you a t-shirt.

[37:10] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, that's not a bad idea.

[37:11] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[37:11] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah. With Alex, Alex's job is the opposite. Alex gets applause every night. And when he walks in the door. And when he walks in the door and he gets a hundred people at the stage door telling him how amazing he is. And Alex, you might think that he like really thrives on that, but there's a big part of him that is uncomfortable by that praise. And uh he I am the person that definitely keeps him grounded. I'm the first person who reads his scripts. I am you know the person he comes to at um when he's trying to get through an audition and he can't get and he goes, What where is like tell me the truth here? Yeah, and I realize that by supporting him, it isn't telling him how amazing he is all the time, even though I do think he is amazing all the time, and I think he's an absolute genius, but it's also saying, Hey, this is how it could be better. This is how you can make your work as strong as it possibly could be. Yeah, and that's how I support him.

[38:15] Alex Brightman: I love that. Well, and and we uh talk about how like you we as actors try to the best acting advice I ever got was was to try to think of of acting from a writer's perspective or from a producer's perspective or a director's perspective or a casting director's perspective, because you have a job and the writer has a job and a director has a job. So not just thinking about it as like what how do I feel in this moment and what would my characters say about this thing. It's like that's not actually so you guys you have that for each other, I imagine, in a way, with writing, but also with acting and with casting, you can see each other's perspective because it's you know you're under the same roof.

[38:51] Alex Brightman: I can tell you also that I the best self tapes I've ever done was with Jenny.

[38:55] Jenny Ravitz: Oh, that's so unfair.

[38:56] Alex Brightman: It is so unfair. It is it's a per it's the ultimate capital P perk of being with someone like Jenny, because not only are the shots set up well, even in this house where there are not many great places to shoot, yeah. I'm telling you, every single self-tape I've done with Jenny, right versus everyone I've done either at my agent's office or by myself, yeah, the ones I've done with Jenny, I think at this point, batting a thousand have at least gotten me a callback or a screen test.

[39:21] Jenny Ravitz: Awesome.

[39:21] Alex Brightman: Because she also is a director, right? Right. That's what casting directors are. Right. Yes, exactly. Um there, and Jenny is well known for keeping someone in a room for 10, 15 takes if they get it because she's aware of the thing that most actors aren't aware of, which is you do 10 or 15 takes, she sends one. Yeah. So as far as everyone else knows, that's your first take. Yeah. And she's gotten you to this point where if you just did the first take, and she always says this if you, you know, you if you come in and do the first take and it's and it's shit, and you get to the 15th take and it's gold, you've had a really it's unfair because Jenny's given you a golden opportunity, because a bad casting director or somebody who just is a lazy casting director would go, Great, and they'd send the first one.

Yeah. When you knew you had gold inside you, and Jenny has this sort of uh, you know, metal detector for gold. Yeah, yeah. And when she finds it, that's it. But she will not let it go. It's it's she fascinates over it, and she it that's what keeps her there late, and that's the best. What rather than it's just like I have a lot of paperwork to push, it's that I just spent 20 takes making sure this actor gets this job.

[40:26] Jenny Ravitz: Well, you thought your audition for Chicago Fire was one of the worst auditions you ever had, right?

[40:31] Alex Brightman: Garbage.

[40:31] Jenny Ravitz: He came to my apartment to talk about how sad he was.

[40:35] Alex Brightman: Oh like truly, I don't remember why you were coming over, but you came to my apartment right after. I think we were working on something, and and I can't and I showed up at Dan's apartment and I was like, I blew it, I blew it, I blew it, and we're gonna see you. You're never gonna see me again because I like it. I was so you know, and and like and like we've been buddies, we've been buddies, and I knew him, I knew Alex first, and I didn't know you as well, and I just didn't want to suck. And that's my I was like, I was like, I'm going over Jenny for Chicago Fire, don't suck. And then I showed up and I was nervous. I was nervous, and I sucked on take one, two, seven, eight. And then and then what but you I it's so funny that you say that because I had that experience in the room with Jenny at a session for Chicago Fire, where I was like, the first time was garbage, the second time was less garbage.

A little bit was less garbage, and the third time was okay. Now there were three scenes, so that's nine takes. And that's that was that's that seems light, by the way, considering some of the things she tells me. Sure. So like I just I I appreciate that immensely. I know what to tell people, and then I got the job.

[41:37] Jenny Ravitz: There you go.

[41:37] Alex Brightman: Yeah, well, yeah, because he got the call while he was sitting in my apartment. His agent was like, you know, this and this is happening, and he was like, Really? Yeah, I remember you leaving and thinking, Oh, he's gonna book that.

[41:48] Jenny Ravitz: Oh I really I truly think that if an actor thinks their audition is garbage, it's the best work they've ever done. It's so strange that way.

[41:55] Alex Brightman: Do you have that?

[41:57] Jenny Ravitz: No, I don't. I actually I'm I think I'm a bit of a like a unicorn when it comes to auditioning. I for the love auditioning, it's one of my favorite things to do.

[42:04] Alex Brightman: I like it too.

[42:05] Jenny Ravitz: I just don't like when I suck.

[42:07] Alex Brightman: I don't honestly, I don't necessarily I don't think I've in a long time, and this has nothing to do with talent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just point of view and perspective. I don't think for a long time I've walked out of a room going, that sucked. I think there's a very small slice where I feel like I could have maybe done this part a little better. Yeah. Or but most of the time, if I walk out because I'm a preparedness freak about auditions. Yeah, yeah. And homework is my special skill when it comes to auditioning and memorization and having the pages but keeping it all in here. Yeah. Is usually I walk out going, I think I'd cast me. Yeah. And if not, maybe they're looking for a redhead. Right. But if it's for lack of preparation, it's there's no way.

[42:44] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah.

[42:44] Alex Brightman: Yeah, right. Right. I just enjoy it. I don't know. I don't ever feel like I was I don't know. Have I? No. I don't think so.

[42:49] Jenny Ravitz: No, you normally I'm always like hyper freakishly prepared though. That's like the Yeah.

[42:56] Alex Brightman: And he never uses the phrase, I really want this before he goes in.

[43:00] Jenny Ravitz: Sure.

[43:00] Alex Brightman: He might say it after, you know, after God is in he was like, oh, I really like that. I would love to be in that.

[43:05] Jenny Ravitz: Right.

[43:06] Alex Brightman: But he will never say it before because that's almost like the kiss of death. You know, if you go in and you're like, I'm gonna fight my ass off to really book this role. Yeah, but then you're desperate. There's a desperation. Yeah, but then you know, you fight and you fight and you fight. If Elizabeth say that, take this to his logical end. You fight, you do you are the right guy for the job, and they go, Yeah, but we were looking for a guy that's six five. Right. Yeah. Nothing I can do about that. No amount of homework I can do will make me six five. Right. Yeah. And I do like to hear the stories that actors create about auditions. That's like one of my favorites, is you know, they go, I came into the room and I was the only guy who looked like me, and that's why I got the part.

I was like, okay, you came into the room and you were the only guy who looked like you because I saw the guy who looked exactly like you 40 minutes ago and he already left. You know, so it's like uh and or they go in and they go, Every guy looked like me and I was the best one. It's like there are a million factors that could be like. We do like to put ourselves at the center of heroic stories as actors. We also, if we book a role, we like with the booking the role, it can't the story can never just be I audition and I got it.

[44:08] Joe Carroll: Yeah, that's literally every story I tell. I mean, there's very few details other than I walked in, I did the thing, and then they a couple hours later they called me. And then I want people, I want their perspective on your auditions then, because I'm sure that like gotten them since and they are a little more interesting. I'm sure from any actor's perspective, truly, there aren't many audition stories where they're like they're not very TV worthy. You know, it's like they're just you walk in, you do the thing, you stumble over one line, you say, Can I start over? You do it again, and then they go, Yeah, he's gonna be fine. Let's put him in the costume. Yeah, right, right. I find that that's pretty much the whole thing, and we add all the the bones and ripples.

What do you think? Because we're dramatic people, yeah. That's right, you know, but that's right. Like we like these stories. And then I got it. I was hit by a bus right before I stepped into the TV audition. Well, not hit by a bus, I saw a bus. And then, you know. Yeah. Yeah. No, I was standing in Dan's apartment complaining about how I didn't get the part and then I got the call, but I got it. The phone rang. That's not a good story, Joe. But that is what happened. But you told it like a message, exactly. In a world, right? Yeah. God, it's so silly. We both have these pretty um uh we were talking about the definition of insanity where you do the same thing over and over. You both have these jobs where you seemingly are doing the same thing all the time. How do you how do you keep that interesting for yourself?

[45:27] Alex Brightman: Well, but you're missing the tail end of the definition of insanity, though. So we that's how we keep it interesting, is that the definite insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. And we don't. I mean, I know that I do a show that's pretty any show on Broadway at all that's scripted, is locked in. You can't just kind of start riffing because there are set moves and lights and dangerous pieces of furniture that could, you know, knock you out if you're not in the right spot. But within that, you keep things fresh, and that's sort of where I my improv and sketch comedy and all that sort of like mental training and stamina that comes into being a comedian comes in.

So okay, yeah, I have to say these lines the same time every night at the same point after this line, but the intention can always be different. So that doesn't feel uh ever doesn't feel stale. Uh maybe, you know, but there is a time limit on this. I mean, I think there are you do the same show, even if it is hysterical and funny and vibrant. You hit a moment where you go, I think I've said this line all the ways it can be said.

[46:28] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[46:29] Alex Brightman: And that's it. I think that that's you know, then that's for me, that's when I have to move on. Yeah. You know, I did School of Rock for a year, and then all of it you I have when I left, I was like, wow, I think I made the right decision. Because I think any more than that would have been too much. And then I got a chance to come back and do the show 12 more times, six months later or three months later, and I was can it confirmed that for me. I was like, Yeah, I was done. I mean, I had a fun time for those 12 shows, but I was like, wow, I am I was the sponge was dry. Right. And that's for me. So I don't know what I think for me, uh the fun thing about how I vary is one, every day I get a new script with new characters.

So that's that's fun. But the actors are what makes it really interesting to me. I might read a scene, especially if I'm doing like series regular search 300 times. So there are some scenes that I can literally recite from memory that were eight years ago. And uh because I heard them just so often. But um I s an actor will come in and say a line so differently that I didn't know was in the canon of how you could say it.

[47:41] Right.

[47:42] Alex Brightman: And that's what keeps it fun and interesting for me. It's just like, oh that's a new take. That's a new take that's a new take. And Kevin agrees. Kevin agrees. Uh we love it. Um and then also I I think that I like the idea of getting g getting new people in and new faces in and meeting someone uh for the first time after just seeing their headshot in a pile.

[48:08] Yeah.

[48:08] Alex Brightman: That's really cool. And then finding out oh they don't look anything like that and what are they and uh but and and and what what their personality types is. And then sometimes I find out something about someone I've been reading an actor for years and she's came in and she said that she was a uh licensed paramedic. And I said you've never mentioned that to me in the years that I've met you. I mean it's just such an interesting it's a skill set and of course something I use on my show all the time. But now it's just another thing I could tuck her into she could very easily do.

[48:43] Joe Carroll: I love that.

[48:44] Alex Brightman: I love that it's it's almost like the audience, you know like for us like I mean the the old ad is like the audience is always different. And so like you know and I've never felt that as strong as I have it frozen. That there are the audience every some nights they're going nuts and they're laughing and at everything and some nights we are doing Hamlet and like no one is saying a word. And I know yeah, at the end of the show, they're on their feet because you figure they were listening. But but that to me is like so it's almost like for you, like every time a new actor comes in, that's a new audience. It's a new, it's a new energy that you kind of get to feed off of.

[49:14] Alex Brightman: Absolutely. I did I I peeled this from your Instagram, and I'm gonna pick this because a couple of months ago, or maybe it was a while ago, you you you did this post about rejection. Like there was this thing going around about like share your rejection stories stories, remember? And you just posed this is like the most eloquent thing. He said sometimes our rejections don't propel us into an Emmy Win or series regular or a book deal. Sometimes our rejections land us on the couch with a beer in a Netflix binge, and that's okay. There's no shame in rejection. There's no shame in not having a shiny achievement award to show for your efforts. You keep doing you. And I just love I love that.

[49:48] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[49:49] Alex Brightman: And I wonder, you know, where that sort of where that came from for you postwise, because it's just like the idea that you know we deal with rejection all over the place. And for us, it's like very clear. You know, it's like you didn't get the job. And so I wonder like how you deal with that stuff as well.

[50:04] Jenny Ravitz: I think it's from a casting perspective. It's challenging being the one who actors see as doing the rejecting.

[50:10] Yeah.

[50:11] Jenny Ravitz: And that is is heartbreaking to me because I know that this is your livelihood, and that booking a job on one of my shows can be the difference between making your rent and not making your rent and not having to pick up an extra shift at Starbucks. And that I take that very seriously.

[50:32] Yeah.

[50:32] Jenny Ravitz: I also am uncomfortable with the idea that there's a set amount of rejections that you get until you get a success.

[50:40] Totally.

[50:41] Jenny Ravitz: And I felt that that hashtag going around that share your rejections was turning into this sort of humble brag parade.

[50:46] Yeah.

[50:47] Jenny Ravitz: That was like, I got rejected so many times until I got my golden globe. And who's laughing now? And you know, you're you're one of one in three million people who have a golden globe. That's great. I think it's truly wonderful that you have something to share, and you're literally sitting under two of Alex's Tony nominations. Uh put those up today for you.

[51:15] Alex Brightman: He's like, honey, where are the Tony?

[51:17] Jenny Ravitz: Where are they? Where are they? Do we have any free of tape?

[51:21] Jenny Ravitz: Uh but I you know that's just not how every path goes.

[51:27] Yeah.

[51:27] Jenny Ravitz: And I think as long as you stay true to yourself that you don't do make any sacrifices that compromise your happiness, that's success. And I think that you have to, I I love to say to students that I teach I go to a lot of colleges, and I say you define your own success.

[51:43] Yeah.

[51:43] Jenny Ravitz: And it's really easy, especially in these competitive theater programs, to go, if I don't get on Broadway, I will, I'm I'm a failure. And that's just not true because you can decide that a success to you is starting a family and being the best mother or father you could be. You can decide that success is starting your own uh community theater and being a really damn good artistic director. And just because you weren't on Broadway doesn't mean that there's this check mark against you that says they failed.

[52:15] Totally.

[52:16] Jenny Ravitz: I remember when I when I went into casting, and I loved, loved what I did. I never felt like performing was something that made me a hundred percent happy all the time. I loved theater, I loved the business, but I didn't feel like when I was on stage that that was like this other element to my personality.

[52:39] I feel that way when I'm casting now.

[52:41] Jenny Ravitz: I remember I saw a girl from college, and it was right when my career was really taking off in casting, and she grabbed me by the shoulder and she said, Nobody thinks you're a failure. And I said, What do you mean by that? And she said, Well, nobody thinks you're a failure because you you're not an actor, that you didn't make it, you didn't do the thing. I said, Here's the thing, I did make it because I decided what was right for me. And I I looked at what I wanted and my future and my happiness, and I said, you know what? Being on stage is wonderful, but I'm gonna get 10 years into this and be totally burnt out and a shell of who I was, and when I am doing something behind the table when I am casting, I feel amazing.

[53:32] Yeah, and that's success to me.

[53:33] 100%.

[53:34] Alex Brightman: And then that's actually a perfect segue because I I mean it's a cheesy question, but like, do you remember your biggest casting win? Do you remember like do you have like a like question?

[53:42] Jenny Ravitz: Like a number.

[53:42] Alex Brightman: I want to know this too. You know, um, I've been there for a lot of them, and it's really exciting.

[53:47] Yeah, yeah.

[53:48] Jenny Ravitz: When she kind of ripping in the door, like, you're not gonna believe what happened. Well, there is because there's like y'all there's always some it's usually a person that not a lot of people will see the gold in.

[53:59] Yeah, right.

[53:59] Jenny Ravitz: Then when they all do, it's because it started here, yeah. And that's like the most thrilling. Um, yeah there something really great happened.

[54:08] Alex Brightman: You cast Joe Carroll in Chicago Fire.

[54:10] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, the ratings went crazy.

[54:13] Jenny Ravitz: Something really great happened on Friday. Um, there's an actor I know, I will name drop him, Brian Michael. He is a wonderful, wonderful actor and a beautiful soul. And we met because he happened to be your reader in a class that I was doing. And I remember thinking, wow, this guy's personality is off the charts. He was so thoughtful and funny and just a delight to be around.

[54:40] Alex Brightman: I really thought he had a great skill set as a reader, and that's not something that you always find.

[54:46] Jenny Ravitz: I'm so happy the story's gonna be on the record, by the way.

[54:48] Alex Brightman: I know where this is.

[54:49] Jenny Ravitz: I know that's where this is going. He was a hustling guy. Like he was always out just trying to get better, trying to get better, trying to get better. And um we would stay in touch on occasion, and we cast him in a small part on Law and Order SPU's a cop, and he said three lines, and that was about it. And uh, and but I just I loved being around him.

[55:10] Alex Brightman: And a few years later, I went to uh the casting society of America held a transgender town hall for transgender actors, and basically uh the CSA Casting Society of America is trying to find those groups that are underrepresented in art, and we started with trans actors, and Brian happened to be at the uh town hall, but I didn't think anything of it. I just thought he was being a supportive actor who wanted to know more.

[55:41] Jenny Ravitz: And on the way out the door, we ran into each other, and he said, Well, now I guess you know, and I said, I know what. And he said, That I'm a trans actor. And I I realized in that moment that I didn't know every side to Brian that I thought that I did. And he was like, I he said something along the lines of like, I hope that doesn't change the way you see me. And I said, of course it doesn't. I said, if anything, it just changes the fact that I could just cast you in one more role that I didn't think that I could cast you in before. But I he ended up talking to me afterward for over an hour about the struggles of being a trans actor and what it meant to the community to be seen as an artist, and not just a trans artist, but an artist in general.

[56:39] And he took a lot of time to truly educate me, and it opened my eyes to so many things that I had just been kind of blind to.

[56:51] Jenny Ravitz: A few months after that, I called Brian in for a role for a Cis character on Chicago PD. And he sort of had a similar situation as you, Joe. Like he he kept sort of fumbling over a line, and but I felt it. I was like, he's gonna book this. I feel it in my soul. Like he is the essence of this character, and I just really kept working with him. And he booked it. I was so so thrilled. We've stayed in touch, we're Instagram buds. Uh he just booked the L word Next Generation, he'll be on that. And he just booked his series regular, first series regular role on a project that I can't say.

[57:25] Whoa.

[57:26] Alex Brightman: On Friday, he came by the office and he said, This never would have happened if you hadn't given me a shot. And I said, absolutely not, it would have happened because you were truly just so talented and so amazing. But I couldn't believe that he would come and thank me for that when I felt that I owed him a thank you to giving me an education that I don't think I would have felt comfortable enough to ask to get.

[57:53] Yeah.

[57:54] Jenny Ravitz: You know, there's so many things that we're uncomfortable to say, or we don't we go, I don't know what you know what these pronouns mean.

[58:01] Twin around and exactly.

[58:03] Jenny Ravitz: And just to have someone go, here, I will take the time and get you to that point. And that was just so earth-shattering for me. I'm so excited for him, and I can't wait for now everyone to Google him who's listening to this podcast. Because he's just so talented and awesome. But I don't, I don't think that I changed his life in any way. I feel it's the other way around. And I'm like so eternally grateful for that.

[58:27] Alex Brightman: That is called that a wet story.

[58:29] Jenny Ravitz: It's a huge win.

[58:30] Alex Brightman: That's a huge win.

[58:31] Jenny Ravitz: Um, and I just to we're getting to the end, we want to give you back your Sunday morning because you talk about how Monday nights are the only nights that you get to hang out. You also get to hang out on Sunday mornings, and that's when Dan, that's when Dan and I showed up in your apartment and asked you a bunch of questions. We like having you here.

[58:45] Dan Tracy: Uh what this is kind of my question of the the thing of the podcast that I I like to ask people, what's kind of your unreachable star at this point? Like what for each of you, like what do you see as kind of that thing in the distance? You both have accomplished so much, you both do so much, and you're working at the absolute highest level in both of your fields. What do you what what else? And it's not even to say like what is more more more, but like what do you I have the answer for me at least. I want to be able to at some point, and I think it's not that far off, is to work with Jenny.

[59:16] Alex Brightman: Yeah. That would be the drain. I mean, we were close. I mean, it's like we've gotten close, we've gotten to the idea of things because as a writer, you know, there are you have certain restrictions as far as who you get to work with, because you're not at the liberty of just being able to choose if you're a produced writer.

[59:30] Dan Tracy: Right.

[59:31] Alex Brightman: But one of the restrictions, you you if you are writing your own things, you kind of get to choose your team. And so the idea to have that sort of like, not just with Jenny, but with some of my other friends, to sort of have that sort of Judd Apatow umbrella of and stable of performers, directors, producers, you know, ADs, lighting, all the people that you just go, I don't even have to see a resume. I know that these people are resourceful and reliable because I know them, yeah, and they're my friends, and one of them's my wife. That's the unattainable star so far that you're asking about. I would love to just make that the norm.

[59:52] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[1:00:05] Alex Brightman: Is to go, I have an idea, and here are the people that are gonna generate it. Totally. And that's it. And then there's no middleman. There's no like how and who am I gonna find to da-da-da. You just call Paul Rudd and Leslie and like you know, you call your own. We call your own Paul Rudd's and your Jonah Hills, and you're that you know, yeah. And that is the dream. That's been a dream of mine for much longer than I've known Jenny.

[1:00:23] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[1:00:24] Alex Brightman: And Jenny's just part of the idea that she's a casting director. It's how how wonderful. Right, right. But so I think that's for me, being able to work with my friends on high-level stuff feels close, um, but again, equally as unattainable because it's such a shifting environment, and in what medium do I get to do it? And what a great opportunity what a great choice, yeah, but also what a varied and terrifying choice.

[1:00:49] Dan Tracy: I love that.

[1:00:49] Alex Brightman: Yeah, I love it. I love it.

[1:00:51] Jenny Ravitz: Um, I disagree. I really want to. I don't want to work. I don't want to work. I was actually thinking that I really want to play Valjean in a community theater production of lame is. Uh, but no, I I definitely agree. I think that choosing your own collaborators is like the hallmark of like that's definitely what both of us want. Uh, in terms of our our future careers, we want to be able to uh really be able to pick our team and like thrive in that environment.

[1:01:24] Alex Brightman: Totally. And we've had it. We we have a couple, I mean, uh uh Jenny and I have written a couple treatments and a couple ideas that are there and ready to sort of boil and all that kind of stuff. It's just a matter of timing and uh all the other million factors that goes into pitching a television show or whatever. Uh but it's all there. I mean, all the gunpowder is loaded, it's just a matter of like when we have the time to pull the trigger.

[1:01:47] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[1:01:48] Alex Brightman: I love that. Before we because we take your time. We're not, we have we're not, we're good.

[1:01:53] Jenny Ravitz: Cool.

[1:01:54] Dan Tracy: Um, I uh we get this question all the time. We have most of the listeners of this show are the you know, aside from our mothers, they're there's one other two other listeners, they're both young actors, yeah. And um, they just they they want to know about process, which is not a always an exciting question to answer. But you have you have these two Tony nominations on the wall for two iconic film roles that you've now recreated on stage. How have you how have you pursued those those roles and in those jobs and and making those your own?

[1:02:30] Alex Brightman: It's playing. It's about playing, and I think that I've said that a lot, but I mean it. It's about getting into a room with zero, and I don't say zero, I mean I don't mean low, zero expectations about what a script can be and that a script is ever gonna be finished. You know, by depth by you know, just by the schedule, you have a deadline, which is when you gotta freeze the thing because audiences are coming and they're gonna pay. But up until that point, everything's out in the open, and if you are willing to play and fail hugely and uh be think you're you know, be dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, and when you can't dig anymore, dig a tiny bit more and you go, Oh, there's the thing. Yeah, um, that's where I found both of the characters that I was lucky enough to play and very lucky enough to be nominated for it's all from doing the things that a lot of people do as kids in their bedrooms they make faces they try voices out they say the lines over and over again they obsess over the little things in the show that nobody probably will even pay attention to but it's very important to me um but it all comes from that very uh adolescent playing and it's just feel like sandbox stuff but if you have good people around you and I got to and especially more most especially with Alex Timbers who is the master playground you know uh chaperone yeah who just gets to go this is a playground rather than a director going this is my room that Alex Timbers got to say this is a playground and I'm just here to make sure that you just don't go outside the doors um but and up until that point he's as interested in my choices as I was if not more interested and being able to just get things wrong 50 times to get the right thing once you never get that opportunity a lot so it wasn't just me and my process but it was sort of like co-opting other people's processes in that way but it all comes down to sort of the improv sketch version of success which is as long as you feel like you're playing it's working.

[1:04:28] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah yeah that's really interesting on a more technical note about Alex's process that Alex gets to the rehearsal room very early and that is when he works on the stuff he you know might go through his script, whatever it might be, and then when he comes home, he might sing some songs on the shower, but he makes sure that home is for rest.

[1:04:56] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[1:04:57] Jenny Ravitz: And that work happens outside of the home. Because I think what's challenging about doing work at home is that you're distracted by a million things. We have a very cute dog sitting next to us. There's so many things to watch on Netflix.

[1:05:09] Alex Brightman: Yeah, Netflix is there.

[1:05:10] Jenny Ravitz: And he's very good about being like, I have to go work now and finding a place where he can make that work happen. And for his job, that's the rehearsal room. So he's sometimes he'll say, Oh, you know, I'm not called until 1 p.m., but he's leaving the house at 10:30 to just get down there, sit by himself with a script on coffee. To be surrounded by the theater part of it too, just to not walk into a room and go, okay, let's go. I just think there's something to the idea of being in a room before you get started.

[1:05:39] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[1:05:39] Jenny Ravitz: That feels right for me very specifically. I don't I don't think it's a universal thing, but it's being in a space, being surrounded by the thing you're about to do, then doesn't feel like you're jumping into a cold pool. It feels like you've like had your foot in the water for a little bit, and then you're like, let's go.

[1:05:53] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[1:05:53] Jenny Ravitz: And now you're in. Then you're like used to the temperature and you're kind of in with everybody who's already been in the pool. Alex loves a metaphor if you're a good idea.

[1:06:00] Alex Brightman: I do.

[1:06:00] Jenny Ravitz: I would agree with that. That's a really good one though.

[1:06:02] Alex Brightman: Yeah, but I do love a metaphor, and I am called on it quite a bit by the person to my left.

[1:06:06] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah.

[1:06:07] Dan Tracy: Um supportive that like that's a supportive like gig. Like she's like ribbing you, but it's like a supportive, yeah.

[1:06:11] Jenny Ravitz: Like you know. Dan Tracy: Jenny, do you have any advice for for young actors?

[1:06:18] Jenny Ravitz: Um, I'm sure you're you're seeing people all the time because you these shows have lasted for so long and you're seeing people who haven't necessarily had these opportunities before. Do you have advice for for how to you know, make a life in TV or make a life as an actor in general?

[1:06:35] Sure. I think the first thing that you have to just tick off the checklist is you have to love it. And if you don't love it, that will go away so so fast, and then you will get truly unhappy. I think everything else is you have to absorb. So you have to love watching theater and you have to love going to the movies, and you have to love watching television, and the more that you can absorb, the better your palette, your you're just going to be able to the reference pool that you can draw off is off of is immense. I think it's really interesting when uh you know an actor comes in and I maybe reference something like extremely iconic and they say, Well, I've never seen that, or they come in for one of the Chicago shows or Law and Order and they say, Oh, I've can you believe it?

I've never seen one of these shows. And I I say, please don't tell me that because your job is to learn, your job is to explore these things. And yes, it's completely impossible to watch every television show that's on the air. But if you're going in for a job and you really, really want it, and you think that, hey, if I get this job, like things are really gonna change, it's super easy to just get on nbc.com and watch an episode of Chicago PD.

[1:07:54] Totally.

[1:07:55] Jenny Ravitz: And just you know, get the feel for it, get an idea of what the tone is. So I think as as a young actor, you should be able to say, if I say Rogers and Hammerstein, you should know who that is. If I say Stephen Sondheim, if I say Sarah Barellis, you know, you should be able to go, yep, I know exactly who that is. That comes along with the loving it though. I mean, I think that it's weird for people to be really good at something and have no knowledge of it. I think it's a very strange But I think that's common.

[1:08:22] Alex Brightman: I don't think that's what I'm saying.

[1:08:23] Jenny Ravitz: That's completely exactly right. I think it's more common than not that people don't obsess enough over the thing that they love, and I do think it is truly the obsessives that get the gold. I do think it is like the people that eat, breathe, sleep, uh, pleasure themselves to the musical theater that are the ones that are having the most fun. Yeah. Because it really does, for lack of a better word, get them off in a way. It's just there is something about knowing.

[1:08:50] Alex Brightman: Right, right, right.

[1:08:51] Jenny Ravitz: You know, you're never going to be knocked for putting in the work. Yeah, right. You're going to be knocked for not putting in putting in the work. I say to my students, I say, what do you gain by not giving a hundred percent? You come in and you give 60, and you're like, but I gave the 60. Well, somebody else is coming in and giving a hundred. So that that's the difference. Somebody else immersed themselves in it. And you should love that work. Like that's I tell students this too. Like you fake that.

[1:09:19] Alex Brightman: Yeah, and you should like I love I remember in high school loving like YouTube was kind of new. And it was like all of a sudden when you could just go on like a YouTube binge of like whatever.

[1:09:29] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, all of a sudden you're like Brightman is boxed.

[1:09:32] Alex Brightman: Yeah. Yes. And I highly encourage people to look that up.

[1:09:35] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, yeah.

[1:09:36] Alex Brightman: You know, like that's how many times do I have to tell you fucking people? And that's not, but it shouldn't feel like work. It should feel like you know, kind of.

[1:09:41] Jenny Ravitz: But that's right. I think that's exactly it shouldn't feel it should feel exhausting in a good way.

[1:09:48] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[1:09:49] Jenny Ravitz: It shouldn't feel like, oh, I gotta do all this. Now I gotta look up this television show that I'm auditioning for. What an insane premise. You're gonna do audition for a television show, go soak it in, yeah, and then be a part of it.

[1:09:59] Alex Brightman: Yeah, absolutely.

[1:10:01] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, you gotta like it. And if you don't like it, get out. That's the other thing. It goes back to the Jenny, the hand on the shoulder. You're listening you're not a failure. You aren't.

[1:10:10] Alex Brightman: Kind of makes my skin crawl.

[1:10:12] Jenny Ravitz: It is, but it's but but the the you know, she said that the per the person that said that to her was somebody who was saying it sort of uh to be jerky, I think. But but the real thing is it's true. You aren't. If you if you decided that you're gonna devote 10 years of your life to doing musical theater, and then all of a sudden in the 11th year, you go, boy, I just don't feel this anymore. I'm gonna be a surgeon. If the part of your brain that goes, yeah, but you've been doing it for 10 years, turn that off. If you don't like it, get out. I mean, find something that fulfills you. And we as artists, and we as you mentioned, there are like moms of young actors who listen to you to this. Right.

We as the people who support those artists have to say, great. We cannot go, but think of all the money I put into it, or think of all the time that you invested. Remember when we were at University of Michigan together and we were, you know, it's that has to go, you have to go great. You know, I say I like to use this phrase, find your Colorado. My best friend, uh, who's a very talented performer, hated New York City, and uh she was absolutely miserable here, and so she moved to Breckenridge, Colorado, and now she's a thriving choreographer uh in Breckenridge, and she is so happy. And so I tell people, find your Colorado, do what you gotta do to be happy and find the path that's right for you. And we all then have to go, yep, absolutely, congrats. I'm so excited that you made that choice for you rather than whispering behind their back. No one thinks you're a good thing.

[1:11:44] Alex Brightman: Yeah, exactly.

[1:11:45] Jenny Ravitz: It's the thing about like where, you know, what success is.

[1:11:50] Alex Brightman: Yep, yeah.

[1:11:51] Jenny Ravitz: Should change, is always changing. There are different forms of, you know, the idea that if you don't get nominated for two Tutony Awards, you're a failure, or if you don't make it to Broadway, you're a failure. It's just so foolish, right? You can make a beautiful life. Teaching choreography in Breckenridge, Colorado, or in Erie, Pennsylvania. We were talking about it last week because we had some people ask us about when should we join Actors Equity? Or when, you know, should you or should you not? That's not a benchmark of success. Like, you know, there are certain things that people think are benchmarks of success that aren't. But I'm I'm gonna get tattooed. I'm gonna get Find Your Colorado tattooed on my forehead or something.

[1:12:27] Alex Brightman: And then it's so good.

[1:12:29] Jenny Ravitz: It's a good one. Find your Colorado. It's very good.

[1:12:34] Alex Brightman: Which we still have to make.

[1:12:35] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, we don't we haven't made those yet. It's all about the merit. And the care package that we haven't delivered yet.

[1:12:40] Alex Brightman: I'm waiting for the care package, please.

[1:12:43] Jenny Ravitz: I was promised a care package.

[1:12:46] Alex Brightman: And all I got is two bros, two bros.

[1:12:49] Jenny Ravitz: Three bros.

[1:12:50] Alex Brightman: Three bros who like to use in your house on a Sunday morning. Guys, thank you so much.

[1:12:55] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, for letting us so fun.

[1:12:58] Alex Brightman: You know, anytime the Alex gets to talk about himself.

[1:13:01] Jenny Ravitz: Yeah, this is great for me.

[1:13:03] Alex Brightman: Really great for me. It's important. Are you gonna ask Jenny a question?

[1:13:08] Dan Tracy: I black out when no one talks to her.

[1:13:17] Jenny Ravitz: I hope you're ready for a show about death.