This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Dan Tracy: So an actor is saying his lines, and then out of nowhere, he just starts singing.

[0:07] Joe Carroll: Box 670.

[0:15] Dan Tracy: Don't cry for me.

[0:19] Joe Carroll: Unemployment.

[0:22] Dan Tracy: We don't have jobs.

[0:27] Joe Carroll: I did have a good joke the other day because somebody was like, uh, so what do you what are you doing? You know, what are you doing next? What are you doing now? And I was like, and I don't I have no prospects. Do you have any openings at your company?

[0:38] Dan Tracy: This was my friend who works in finance. They were like, no, if we don't, we you know.

[0:43] Dan Tracy: Um welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[0:45] Joe Carroll: Welcome back to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[0:48] Dan Tracy: We are in New York City in the same place.

[0:50] Joe Carroll: And the coronavirus is about to hit.

[0:53] Dan Tracy: He laughs. He thinks it's funny because I just walked in with like a 64-ounce bottle of antibacterial.

[0:59] Joe Carroll: Biggest hand sanitizer bucket I've ever seen.

[1:02] Dan Tracy: Yeah, well, when there isn't any left, because all the crazies in New York have bought it all, I'm gonna be laughing.

[1:08] Joe Carroll: Yes, like me.

[1:10] Dan Tracy: So if the coronavirus hits New York in the next week or two, Dan's gonna be fine.

[1:15] Joe Carroll: Dan's gonna have all the antibacterial in the street.

[1:18] Dan Tracy: Just come to Dan's house, and I'll be selling it for a thousand dollars a bottle.

[1:21] Joe Carroll: It's capital.

[1:22] Dan Tracy: People have been doing that.

[1:23] Joe Carroll: Really?

[1:24] Dan Tracy: Yeah, people have been drop shipping, um, which I won't explain, but you can look it up. Uh they've been drop shipping masks from the United States and selling them on eBay for like a thousand dollars for ten, bro.

[1:36] Joe Carroll: Wow.

[1:37] Dan Tracy: That's capitalism.

[1:38] Joe Carroll: There's ten, there's ten masks in that box right there that Julie paid a lot of money for.

[1:42] Dan Tracy: Maybe I can just like Can I have two?

[1:44] Joe Carroll: No.

[1:45] Dan Tracy: Yeah, for $400.

[1:48] Joe Carroll: Wow.

[1:49] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[1:50] Joe Carroll: All right. And then we can buy our new couch.

[1:53] Dan Tracy: Great.

[1:54] Joe Carroll: Okay, we shouldn't make a joke of this.

[1:55] Dan Tracy: The ramblings over.

[1:56] Joe Carroll: Wash your hands.

[1:57] Dan Tracy: Wash your hands. And if you live in a uh an urban area, please be careful because it's definitely scarier than I thought it was gonna be.

[2:04] Joe Carroll: Yeah, well, we're both big fans of the of the New York Times Daily. And uh they have all of them. And this morning's daily.

[2:09] Dan Tracy: We're here to talk about musicals.

[2:10] Joe Carroll: Yes, we are, musical. We have a really great interview this week.

[2:13] Dan Tracy: And you know how exciting. I'm saying it on the microphone airwaves.

[2:18] Joe Carroll: This is your best interview.

[2:21] Dan Tracy: You are so good.

[2:22] Joe Carroll: How dare you?

[2:23] Dan Tracy: You're getting so good. Cause last week we talked about like notes for the podcast.

[2:27] Joe Carroll: Uh huh.

[2:27] Dan Tracy: And like, you know what I mean? This is a great interview. Dan leaves leads it with Emmy Raver-Lampman by himself from DC. And it's really good.

[2:34] Joe Carroll: Thanks, man.

[2:36] Dan Tracy: All by yourself.

[2:36] Joe Carroll: Thank you.

[2:37] Dan Tracy: How about those transitions?

[2:38] Joe Carroll: Really great transitions.

[2:39] Dan Tracy: Yeah, really funny.

[2:40] Joe Carroll: Yeah. There was no burping into the microphone.

[2:42] Dan Tracy: Well, that's you that's a you thing.

[2:43] Joe Carroll: That's a me thing.

[2:44] Dan Tracy: I'm a farter.

[2:45] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[2:45] Dan Tracy: But you can't hear it because you can't hear it too far away from the link.

[2:47] Joe Carroll: Too far away from the lake.

[2:49] Dan Tracy: Um, welcome home.

[2:50] Joe Carroll: Thanks, man. How you doing?

[2:51] Dan Tracy: I'm good.

[2:52] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[2:52] Dan Tracy: Yeah. Transition to real. I have a lot of thoughts about uh my experience that I feel like I haven't articulated yet. The first one is that man, I wish I'd stop to look around and enjoy the experience.

[3:04] Joe Carroll: Well, after listening to Bobby Creighton's quotes last week, where he talks about uh you can't hit the ball till you get there, Dan. It's about the walk.

[3:11] Dan Tracy: Yeah, man. You can't hit the ball till you get there. If you're worried about where the ball's gonna be, then you miss the walk.

[3:18] Joe Carroll: Yeah. You gotta be.

[3:31] Dan Tracy: And I'm saying goodbye to Donald Weber Jr., who's now one of my favorite people on the planet and is replacing you as my best friend.

[3:37] Joe Carroll: Great. Only he lived here. It's totally fine. We'd have him on the show every week. We have an interview with him coming up. I think it truly is the best interview I've we've ever done.

[3:44] Dan Tracy: I have friends.

[3:46] Joe Carroll: So I don't need I don't you don't need me.

[3:48] Dan Tracy: I don't I don't have very many friends.

[3:49] Joe Carroll: Um God, that's real. As you get older, you don't have very many friends. But like we were saying goodbye, and I was like, oh man, this is just this is over.

[3:55] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[3:56] Joe Carroll: What a weird part about what we do. That never goes away, kids.

[3:59] Dan Tracy: Yeah. Like that theater, that old high school theater thing where you so all of a sudden these people become your absolute best friends and then they're gone.

[4:07] Joe Carroll: Yeah. So I I do wish I'd I'd stopped to enjoy the view a little bit more. Um I was just so focused on trying to give my best and do my best. And I feel like I did that. I feel like I brought, you know, I made mistakes and I dropped lyrics and I sang wrong pitches, and I made up lines, and I did things wrong, but most of the time I did things at my absolute best, and I took care of my body and my voice and slept and did all those things.

[4:36] Dan Tracy: Um but I found out on Monday afternoon that I was not going forward with the show.

[4:43] Joe Carroll: That's wild.

[4:44] Dan Tracy: Yeah, I got an email from the producers that that they were gonna go in another direction moving forward because it's a really difficult character for them to make work in the piece.

[4:54] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[4:55] Dan Tracy: So that was heavy. And we talked about this just before we started, and it was kind of like do we talk about it? Do we not?

[5:00] Joe Carroll: Right.

[5:01] Dan Tracy: And I think that we decided that we would mention it first of all because it's it's a little public in our industry.

[5:07] Joe Carroll: Yeah, there was a there was a breakdown for the character that came out.

[5:10] Dan Tracy: Right. There's a public like audition announcement. You know, and and I think that it's helpful in this. This is totally uh uh Brene Brown um vulnerability begets vulnerability, you know, to talk about this stuff, to not sweep it under the rug. That like this is something that happens. It happens to a lot of people, it's happening to me, and you all who listen to this show and and are trying to learn from our experience. I feel like I have an obligation to kind of like share what's happening.

[5:40] Joe Carroll: Right.

[5:41] Dan Tracy: Um it's funny because and I'm just thinking about this now, or well, I was thinking about this morning. Um, that you know, we had Angelica and Ross on the show.

[5:50] Joe Carroll: Yeah, and they both sat here and said that your audition was perfect and they loved everything that you did.

[5:55] Dan Tracy: Right.

[5:55] Joe Carroll: And they were so excited, you know, that you know what I mean, like, and and it wasn't bullshit. Like they weren't coming in here bullshit. This was all pre we turned the mics on and then on the mics, they were just so thrilled with everything that you did, and you got along super well with Robert, the director, and every you know, from the outside, but it looked like I mean, it's just is they want to go older, they want to go taller, they want to go fatter, they want to go shorter, they want to go you know what I mean.

[6:21] Dan Tracy: Actually, the thing, the thought, the final thought I kind of want to give on it, and to wrap it all up, because I don't, you know, want to spend too much time on this, is that the gems that came out of your episode with Robert and Kevin and Kevin really tied it all together for me. When I looked back at that quote which I posted on the Instagram yesterday about you can really only be yourself, it's like I spent six and a half weeks just bringing my full self as best I could into that role, right? Which is the only thing that I can do, because then if they decide that that's not it, then I could only be myself.

[7:03] Joe Carroll: So I couldn't spend six weeks being someone else. I have to spend six weeks being myself and being my best self to the best of my ability at the moment.

[7:11] Dan Tracy: Right. And then that decision is out of my hands. And there's no way in a six minute audition that they could see my full self.

[7:18] Joe Carroll: Or really even know who the character is supposed to be.

[7:21] Dan Tracy: Yeah, because they're still figuring it out. But just on that, you you spend six weeks being your full self. But also you have to now separate your full self the work as opposed to full self the person. Like Dan is Dan, the full self is good. You're you're chilling. Life is life is beautiful, you know.

[7:38] Joe Carroll: Right.

[7:38] Dan Tracy: Life is hard, life is everything. Right. But like you, it's hard to to really for me to differentiate between your full self in the work and your full self as a person walking around every day. How do you not wrap yourself worth up in this idea that they didn't want my full self? You know what I mean?

[7:56] Joe Carroll: Absolutely.

[7:57] Dan Tracy: And that's the work. But it's because yes, totally. Yeah. And there's a huge trap in this business with feeling like because you perform as yourself, right? That it then has something to do with like your identity, Joe or my identity, Dan. But it's it's not that. Right. It has to do with that like how your first your personality fits into the story that's being told.

[8:21] Joe Carroll: Right, right.

[8:22] Dan Tracy: It's not that you're not great.

[8:24] Joe Carroll: Exactly.

[8:24] Dan Tracy: And I think that it's sometimes fit this story. This story and I to make the story work. I think that sometimes we think that it's harder because we're actors and it is just like you're playing yourself in a thing, but you gotta be, you're bullshitting yourself if you think that every doctor, lawyer, small business owner doesn't feel the same way about their work. Their work is an idea, it's a huge identity. And then when that when that gets hit and somebody's like, you know, I'm sure, and my dad doesn't listen to the podcast because he doesn't listen to podcasts, but you know, you know, but if my if somebody's like, hey, Tom Carroll, we don't like your labels because my dad makes labels, you don't think that that's gonna like hit him in a way that like your identity is shook a little bit.

And so I just I always feel better about looking at it from an outside perspective work-wise. That like if your work if somebody digs your, you know, doesn't dig your work, um, that's hard across the board, that's hard for everybody.

[9:17] Joe Carroll: What the part that hurts is the fact that like I could have had this great opportunity, but now I don't have exactly the part it doesn't hurt to me. I I don't I'm not taking personal offense about my value as a human being or my value even as a performer.

[9:31] Dan Tracy: Yeah, and both those things are easy things to fall into. But I have really taken deep in my in my core the belief that if Matthew McConaughey or Leonardo DiCaprio were to play the same role, it would literally not be the same role.

[9:45] Joe Carroll: Right.

[9:45] Dan Tracy: Right. When I saw Gavin Creel play the doctor versus Drew Galen, right versus Jeremy Jordan play the doctor, it truly was a different human being.

[9:53] Joe Carroll: Absolutely.

[9:54] Dan Tracy: And it's the producer and director's job to decide who they think should be the first person to do that, right? To introduce that story to the world, and then afterwards it can kind of break away.

[10:05] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[10:05] Dan Tracy: I was just telling you earlier that um Ben Thompson, who we want to have on the show, yeah, was one of the first Earls in the readings of Waitress, then they went in a different direction. He didn't get to open the show, but he then was the longest running Earl on Broadway.

[10:20] Joe Carroll: Who the hell is that?

[10:20] Dan Tracy: It's like two years.

[10:21] Joe Carroll: It's just you know, so it's the this is the journey's long. I've been just posting a lot of like fuel for my spirit on my socials, trying to like tell myself that these things are true and put it out in the universe.

[10:34] Joe Carroll: Well, it is true, and and I think that that's good for you to do because it it does help, you know, it helps you and it helps, you know, people.

[10:41] Dan Tracy: But I do think it's important to know that like everybody is going through this all the time. This is you know, it's not just us, it's actors all over the place getting replaced in things that they really want to do, you know, not getting jobs.

[10:53] Joe Carroll: Yeah, and it's it's everyone, it's not just actors, too.

[10:56] Dan Tracy: Yeah, it's everybody, yeah. Everybody gets passed up for things, or everybody has a colleague who doesn't think that their work is good or whatever, you know.

[11:04] Joe Carroll: So anyway, I'm proud of you.

[11:06] Dan Tracy: Thank you.

[11:07] Joe Carroll: Um moving to something lighter. Uh I really love that you called me out in the first five seconds of this interview for not being able to come see Gun and Powder in DC.

[11:16] Dan Tracy: So listen in.

[11:18] Joe Carroll: Right when we started this this interview, when you start talking to Emmy, you like four seconds in, you're like, Yeah, Joe can't come see the show because it was sold out.

[11:26] Dan Tracy: It was totally sold out.

[11:28] Joe Carroll: I only could come see it. There was like five or six shows that I could possibly make it to.

[11:31] Dan Tracy: Yeah, and they were all sold out, so I couldn't make it to see the show.

[11:34] Joe Carroll: But you just totally throw throw me under the bus, which I love because I'm not there to defend myself, which is how this podcast should go.

[11:39] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[11:40] Joe Carroll: And you never throw me under the bus publicly too much.

[11:43] Dan Tracy: Never.

[11:43] Joe Carroll: I'm sorry for that.

[11:44] Dan Tracy: But oh no, I think I well, I guess I don't. I don't.

[11:46] Joe Carroll: You kind of did with Patty, but it wasn't too bad.

[11:50] Dan Tracy: Um, the the uh there and there were like say there were tickets available, not tickets, but there were seats because it's a subscribers. This is a whole thing.

[11:58] Joe Carroll: That's a little bit too complicated to get it.

[12:00] Dan Tracy: Well, and I love you, but it was with this thing where you're like, you could come down to DC and you could wait in line and and you'll probably get it. But they were turning people away, so I'm glad I didn't tell you to do that.

[12:08] Joe Carroll: And I was like, you know what? I would have had to like I would have taken the Acela.

[12:11] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[12:11] Joe Carroll: Because I'm because he loved his point. Because I'm too bougie to take the bolt bus.

[12:16] Dan Tracy: And it would have blown a couple notes.

[12:18] Joe Carroll: Um, anyway, congratulations.

[12:20] Dan Tracy: Thank you.

[12:20] Joe Carroll: A great run.

[12:21] Dan Tracy: Thank you. Um, you know, they they are gonna take the work that you did on this show, and and it will live forever, really, in a way. Like the things that worked, the things that didn't. You you taught them so much in that role, and yeah, and uh, you know, I hope you know you can buy yourself a beer and uh realize that.

[12:39] Joe Carroll: And this has probably opened up something for me that I can't see yet.

[12:43] Dan Tracy: Totally. Yeah, you know, two years from now I could be doing that, but instead I'm gonna have something else that's going on that I wouldn't be able to do if I were doing that.

[12:52] Joe Carroll: Right.

[12:52] Dan Tracy: So yeah, you gotta create space.

[12:54] Joe Carroll: That's it.

[12:54] Dan Tracy: Yeah, and I got nothing but space right now.

[12:57] Joe Carroll: So uh just come come in here, the water's warm.

[13:00] Dan Tracy: Uh unemployment is incredibly frustrating.

[13:03] Joe Carroll: And uh but also I like it too.

[13:06] Dan Tracy: I like it right now.

[13:07] Joe Carroll: I like it because I have money saved.

[13:08] Dan Tracy: I same and I yesterday was it was a good day.

[13:13] Joe Carroll: The day before, I was like, I'm I'm a worthless sack of shit.

[13:16] Dan Tracy: Cause I was being a worthless sack of shit.

[13:17] Joe Carroll: Like I was I was I think I I had I was sitting on the couch at like noon watching reruns of 30 Rock.

[13:24] Dan Tracy: And it's like, okay, you guys go do something.

[13:26] Joe Carroll: You gotta do something.

[13:27] Dan Tracy: Yeah. So get back on your computer, start typing away.

[13:29] Joe Carroll: Exactly. And that's we got work to do.

[13:31] Joe Carroll: We got stuff to do.

[13:32] Joe Carroll: Joe only writes when he's unemployed.

[13:33] Joe Carroll: So I'm putting him on blast with all of you that he needs to get to work.

[13:33] Joe Carroll: Get to work.

[13:38] Joe Carroll: Um, we rambling over, let's get to Emmy's interview.

[13:42] Dan Tracy: Yes.

[13:42] Dan Tracy: Um, my favorite part uh early on um is when you guys talk about honestly like the vocal health stuff and how kind of nervous she was to do a musical because she has done a million musicals, but she was a little freaked out.

[13:55] Dan Tracy: It's she you can hear it in her voice that like she had been doing a TV show, she did this very fancy Netflix TV show. She's coming back to musical theater for the first time in a while, and she was like, Oh my gosh, how's this gonna go? And then you're there, like, yo, you sounded perfect from day one. So shut up again.

[14:08] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[14:11] Dan Tracy: Truly. I was like, oh, that's rusty.

[14:14] Joe Carroll: Right, right, right, right.

[14:16] Dan Tracy: I've been in a Broadway show for a year and a half, and I'm way more rusty because I took a week vacation.

[14:21] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[14:21] Joe Carroll: Exactly.

[14:22] Dan Tracy: Um, she's just the I mean, she's just a crap. When she grew up with so many of our friends, which is so cool. So you know, we talk about she she grew up with RJ Brown, uh, one of our best friends who was on an early episode, and Grant Gustin and uh Adrienne Warren and like all of these people. Danny Wilfred, Tony Wilfred from college, like you know, she's that it was this little microcosm of musical theater excellence in Virginia.

[14:42] Joe Carroll: It's crazy school.

[14:44] Joe Carroll: Um, you want to rattle off her credits real quick?

[14:46] Dan Tracy: Yeah, just so we did. I mean, it's kind of everything that you could possibly. She's got a real a resume that is just kind of every actor's dream.

[14:54] Joe Carroll: She's been busy.

[14:55] Dan Tracy: Yeah. Um, she she did the first national tour of Hair, and then she booked while she was still at school.

[15:02] Joe Carroll: Exactly.

[15:02] Dan Tracy: Then she went back to school and booked the Jekyll and Hyde National Tour, which toured around for a while and then went to Broadway shortly.

[15:10] Joe Carroll: Then she I'm not sure of the exact sequence, but she was in A Night with Janis Joplin on Broadway shortly. She was on the Wicked tour, covered Ali Lough, stood by for Ali Lough, and the other cover was Stephanie Torrance.

[15:24] Joe Carroll: Whoa!

[15:24] Dan Tracy: So they all know each other really well, which is which is awesome. I love all those people.

[15:28] Joe Carroll: That's very cool. We gotta get Ali Lough on here.

[15:30] Dan Tracy: Yeah, for sure. Um, and then um she made then she was cast into the Broadway company of Hamilton. They added a few people after the public premiere at the public, and she joined the company as Woman Five on Broadway and covered, I think, all of the Skylar Sisters, or at least two of them.

[15:49] Joe Carroll: And then uh she did that in three different productions. She opened the Chicago Company. She did she did the tour that Saleya was on, which I guess was like San Francisco LA.

[16:00] Dan Tracy: Yeah, I mean, they they called it a tour, but it's like they were like in San Francisco for six months and then they were in LA for six months, kind of or whatever.

[16:07] Joe Carroll: Yeah, it's just like That'd be nice.

[16:08] Dan Tracy: Yeah, exactly. No, but we're we're happy for them. And um, and then when they were in LA, she booked Umbrella Academy and left Hamilton again. She's like, I've left Hamilton three times, which I thought was funny.

[16:20] Joe Carroll: Um the thing that I the thing that I want to say before we get into this that I love the most about Emmy and working with Emmy is that because she has this experience where she has understudied and covered, she knows how to treat people. And it's definitely something that that everyone needs to pay attention to.

[16:32] Dan Tracy: Love it.

[16:37] Joe Carroll: Doesn't matter that she has 500,000 Instagram followers, not a big deal. She's just as humble as everybody else in the room. She was really inclusive. It was a very inclusive company. We really made a point to kind of hang out together and have fun on our days off.

[16:50] Dan Tracy: That's great.

[16:51] Joe Carroll: And I think that it makes all the difference. Like to be able to laugh and play with somebody is really um so important. And and she sounds brilliant at that.

[17:01] Dan Tracy: That's awesome. And she does, she talks about uh her experience with SpongeBob um doing SpongeBob in musical. Um, but working with Tina Landau.

[17:07] Joe Carroll: And Tina Landau is a is a hero of ours.

[17:10] Dan Tracy: Yeah. Just one of the greatest directors. Um, and and she uh she talks about you know going into the room with Tina Landau to create uh SpongeBob and and Tina is creates her rooms, like let's just play and let's roll around on the ground and just be actors and play, you know, silly kids coming up with you know make believe.

[17:28] Joe Carroll: And and she mentioned that early in the interview, and I think that's a great thing to remember that like all we're trying to do is play make believe. All we're trying to do is is create and have fun. And like that is we can take this stuff too seriously sometimes. And like, you know, she did SpongeBob. You know what I mean? And it was just like that was one of my favorite things.

[17:44] Dan Tracy: Yeah, we're just playing.

[17:45] Joe Carroll: Yeah. But you it all comes through, and we're so grateful that she came to came to talk to you.

[17:49] Dan Tracy: Absolutely.

[17:49] Joe Carroll: Yeah. Enjoy the episode.

[17:50] Dan Tracy: Yeah. Also, check out my episode of New Amsterdam that uh just aired on NBC on Tuesday night if you like that sort of thing.

[17:57] Joe Carroll: Check out my Sterling K. Brown.

[18:01] Joe Carroll: My Sterling Cabron tear.

[18:02] Joe Carroll: Single tiers.

[18:04] Joe Carroll: Woo!

[18:04] Joe Carroll: Single tiers 2020.

[18:06] Joe Carroll: Hey, listen.

[18:07] Joe Carroll: Awesome. Here's Emmy.

[18:10] Emmy Raver-Lampman: You delay your whole life on the line for me if you could.

[18:16] Emmy Raver-Lampman: But I want to do that.

[18:17] Dan Tracy: What's up, Emmy?

[18:18] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Hi Dan.

[18:20] Dan Tracy: Welcome to uh Guys Who Like Musicals.

[18:23] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Oh God, we're gonna keep that forever. That was brilliant. That might just be the opening in perpetuity.

[18:30] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Oh man, I've been waiting for this moment.

[18:33] Dan Tracy: That can't be true.

[18:34] Emmy Raver-Lampman: No, it is. I mean, half of our half of our cast is walking around sporting your shirts.

[18:39] Dan Tracy: That's true.

[18:40] Emmy Raver-Lampman: That's true. Merch door is now open. Just go to the link in our Instagram profile.

[18:44] Dan Tracy: Um thank you for thank you for sitting here and being with us.

[18:49] Emmy Raver-Lampman: I mean, it was a really long walk across the apartment complex.

[18:53] Dan Tracy: That's right. It's really out of my way. I really had to make it very inconvenient for you.

[18:58] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um, how are you feeling?

[19:00] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Uh now we are about only a week a week into Gun and Powder, and we're a week away from Gun and Powder. Emmy and I are currently working on this show at the Signature Theater. It's in its world premiere, and she plays Martha Clark, one of the leads in the show, uh, while she's on hiatus from her very fancy television show on Netflix, which some of you may know her from. And uh just in case you didn't know, Emmy's one of the greatest people you've ever met.

[19:26] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Oh my god.

[19:27] Emmy Raver-Lampman: We didn't know.

[19:28] Dan Tracy: True, true. Who knew you would be so nice?

[19:31] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Hey, likewise. You know, you know, I'd heard something.

[19:36] Dan Tracy: No, I'm kidding. I'd heard nothing but amazing things. I'm so excited to come down here. I actually I feel good. I'm I'm kind of, you know, it's been a minute since I've done an eight-show week situation.

[19:46] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And so I think I was a little nervous about, you know, kind of being vocally and physically out of shape for that. So you know, it's been exciting. And this cast, as you know, is incredible. We're having so much fun and just we laugh all day, which is you simply can't ask for anything better than that.

[20:03] Dan Tracy: Yeah, that's true.

[20:04] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um, and we're having fun, and the show is so good and people seem to be loving it, and you know, we are sold out.

[20:10] Dan Tracy: Yeah, not a single ticket.

[20:11] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Not an empty seat. Joe, who I do the podcast with literally can't come anymore because he didn't he he was worried about auditions and whatever. He's got some plans next week, so he's not gonna be able to see the show.

[20:24] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And I will never forgive him, fans. Never forgive him.

[20:26] Dan Tracy: It's okay. I didn't see him in some things too. So he's making it up to me.

[20:32] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um, but uh so uh back to what you said about worrying about being vocally prepared. It's so funny that you should say that because uh in my opinion, you were like flawless vocally from day one.

[20:44] Emmy Raver-Lampman: See, now you're gonna be.

[20:45] Dan Tracy: So were you excuse me?

[20:48] Emmy Raver-Lampman: I'm gonna open my mouth and a frog is gonna pop out.

[20:51] Dan Tracy: Okay. Well, I won't talk too much about it then. But um, no, were you like were you uh getting ready and stuff, kind of leading up to this, or did you just kind of jump in?

[21:04] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um, I I definitely just kind of jumped in. I think uh uh I yeah, I I think I didn't really, you know, we had that one week of rehearsals in New York, and um, and I think that kind of was introducing me back into just you know, learning essentially just sitting in front of a sheet of music and learning it. Like it just was a muscle that was like so out of shape.

[21:28] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um, so it was really nice to kind of flex that muscle and like kind of fall back into it and you know, remember that I do know how to do that. It is there. I just had to use it in a while. I was nervous, I really was.

[21:39] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um, and then you know, I don't know. I honestly was so inspired by the other people in the room, like you and Donald and Salea and this ensemble and Marva and and you know, everyone was just from the table read, which was like a sing read through that none of us were expecting.

[21:57] Emmy Raver-Lampman: That was that was crazy truly a gag. We were like, we're seeing it. I kind of want to give some context because the experience here has been absolutely crazy and has reminded me that it's not a bad idea to like continue to work on my musicianship all the time. Because like we showed up for that rehearsal in New York, and the music director was like, Okay, let's go it, let's do it.

[22:19] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[22:20] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Okay. He was like, Let's take it from the top of the song. And you're like, I've literally never heard it. Like what? You mean I'm supposed to look at these dots on this page? Like sight read on the case. Which I guess like maybe I mean, we've had people on the show who I know can do that, but like I can't. That's not the yeah, that's not that is not a talent that I have.

[22:40] Emmy Raver-Lampman: It takes me admit. I mean, usually once I hear it a couple times, it's in there, but yeah, but then we show up to first day of rehearsal and they're like, we're gonna read sing through the entire show. Cold.

[22:50] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Cold. And the ensemble had not had rehearsal. So they're trying to get the ensemble to sing in parts.

[22:56] Dan Tracy: Yeah, in full harmonies.

[22:58] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Having not ever heard the music. Which is laughable. But you know what? There were like five or six people who read the show down.

[23:05] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[23:05] Emmy Raver-Lampman: I was like, wait a minute. Did they have a week of rehearsal? Do you know this? And he was like, no, I'm just, you know, you know, Christian and win.

[23:11] Dan Tracy: Yep.

[23:12] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Sight reading the first. In perfect harmony. I was like, just like, oh no, I just I read really well. You know, I'm just a chorus nerd, whatever. And I was like, Yeah, you are. You're gonna be booked.

[23:20] Emmy Raver-Lampman: No, it was insane. So I mean, honestly, when that is your first day of rehearsal, I was like, oh, okay. Well, I'm not allowed to slack off then.

[23:27] Dan Tracy: Right.

[23:27] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Right. We're gonna step it up. This cast will make me look bad because everyone is so talented and so on top of their game that I need to rise to their level. And it just kind of encouraged me and inspired me to do so.

[23:40] Emmy Raver-Lampman: So I just think, you know, and it was like that and through and through and still is like every day. I'm just like, oh god, it's a matinee. I'm so tired. And then Ration walks out on stage and starts the show with that unbelievable like first two lines, and I'm like, oh, well, if he's at 120, I guess I can't be tired.

[23:59] Dan Tracy: For sure.

[23:59] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And just like the adding riffs and all that stuff. Just like the musicality is so fun to be a part of. We just have a lot of fun in the show. It's really great.

[24:07] Dan Tracy: Um, but clearly you have to have had a pretty solid foundation to be able to just jump back in like this because I'm the kind of person that like if I'm not singing every single day, after three weeks, I literally can't sing.

[24:22] Emmy Raver-Lampman: No, I mean, probably like less and less now because it's been I've been consistently singing all the time for so long. But definitely for a while there, like I'd go four or five weeks without like really practicing, and I would be screwed.

[24:35] Dan Tracy: Really?

[24:36] Emmy Raver-Lampman: But clearly that's not an issue for you. So that takes me back to like when did you start training vocally? I know you went to you're from Norfolk, Virginia. You grew up with RJ Brown, who we've had on the show, and uh Danny Wilfred, who I went to school with, and I'm sure there's plenty of other people I know from that area as well. And um, and you went to the governor school.

[24:53] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Yeah.

[24:58] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Were you like I think I think you mentioned once that you did uh you worked in opera when you were a kid.

[25:05] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Yeah.

[25:06] Emmy Raver-Lampman: So were you like taking voice lessons and doing all of that?

[25:08] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Mine really young or so I grew up in a really musical house. My dad played all kinds of instruments and music was just like always around. There was always music playing, or my dad was always playing. I, you know, my dad had like bands growing up, so there's always people over, just like it just was a very musical house from a very early age.

[25:28] Emmy Raver-Lampman: I think I just was always really interested in music. And I think, you know, when my parents, I was a very hyperactive child and was doing a lot of things, and I think my parents kind of when they started to realize that like I loved singing and dancing, and because I think I was doing those things separately, but then I think they kind of were like, oh, well, maybe like theater would be right the good combination of all of those.

[25:50] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um and so I um it started really at the Hurrah Players, which is actually how I met RJ.

[25:58] Dan Tracy: Yeah, yeah, you talked about that.

[25:59] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And and you know, act truly a lot of people that are working in our industry. Well, Adrian Warren in that group. Grant Gustin, who's the flash, and um just like so many people um kind of started at Hurrah and then ended up going to governor school in high school.

[26:16] Dan Tracy: Right.

[26:17] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um, and so I think, you know, I I think they just kind of knew that that was a thing that I loved to do. And so I think when I started to get like a little older and it was like still a thing that I was really interested in, um, I think more like in middle school, my dad was like, oh, okay.

[26:37] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um, and he was always looking for things that musically we could do together. And so the Virginia Opera, which is like, you know, in North Virginia and an amazing company, um, they they have like a children's chorus in a lot of their operas. And then they also have like a non singing like extra chorus for just like, you know, background folk.

[26:59] Dan Tracy: Sure.

[27:00] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And so my dad started doing that, and then I was in the children's chorus so that we could do it together.

[27:05] Emmy Raver-Lampman: But, you know, part of being in the opera is like technique is everything. And so I think, you know, he just wanted me to be smart and well educated and on singing. And so I started taking voice lessons with, you know, opera teachers, and then I think that kind of turned into then going to governor school, which is, you know, full musical theater training. And um, you know, so it kind of unraveled kind of slowly, and I don't really know if it was like methodical by any means, but I think it just was, you know, I don't know if my parents ever knew that until, you know, I went decided to go to governor school that that was like the thing that I wanted to do with my life. But I also don't know if I really knew that.

I think by the time it was, you know, starting to look at colleges, it was kind of like I guess I'm gonna look at schools where I can do theater. That feels like the thing, the only thing that I'm interested in doing, and like trying to wrap my brain around any other sort of sure job was I had no interest in. So um, yeah. So I definitely, you know, through the opera and through voice lessons growing up and through, you know, governor school, um I definitely have had, you know, a lot of technical training and, you know, but then in governor school we learned how to like belt and what that is and like belting technique and, but like serious training in high school, which not all of us get, which is really cool.

[28:31] Dan Tracy: And why did you, when you look back on why you went to Marymount Manhattan? Where were you looking at going to school and why did you decide on Marymount?

[28:40] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um, Marymount was for me, every Thanksgiving I would go up to New York with the hurrah players have a Thanksgiving trip. So every year at Thanksgiving, they like have like three buses and they bus all these families up, and we stay in a hotel and we go to the parade and we do, you know, go to see shows. And um, so every Thanksgiving growing up, I would go and I knew I was in love with New York, and I knew I wanted to be there. And I also think I knew that I had had the conservatory experience for theater in high school. And so I wasn't really interested in doing that again in college. Um and so I applied to, you know, Florida State and Elon and I think the in-state school was Shenandoah. And then I had applied early admission to Marymount.

And so I had visited the other schools, and I think I had auditioned for Marymount and Elon at the time. And then I found out about Marymount and then just like was like, great, that's actually where I wanted to go. It was my top choice. Um, and so I found out about that before I had even auditioned at, um, I think like, uh, Ithaca was one, you know, just like the conservatory programs, you know, and that was, you know, almost 10 years ago. So that was the programs are that's even different.

[29:57] Dan Tracy: Yeah, it's even there's even more now.

[29:59] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is cool to see. But it was like UARTs and Carnegie Mellon and like all those, but they were, you know, all on the list. But because I had applied so early to Marymount because that was my top choice. I was like, great, I got into my top school. Bye. And so it was like a pretty quick college, you know, application and audition experience because I knew, you know, I didn't even apply to, um, um NYU because I knew that at that point they still had the Cap 21 program and that was a conservatory program. And I just wasn't interested. I wanted because the theater program at the time, and I think it still is at Marymount, was um is a minor. It's a musical theater minor, it's not a major.

[30:35] Dan Tracy: Interesting.

[30:36] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um, yeah, and it's a liberal arts degree. So I still wanted to take, you know, foreign language classes and biology classes, and I still wanted like a well-rounded education with other non-theater classes. That was really important to me. But I also wanted to live in New York, and I wanted to be able to like start auditioning as soon as I got to New York and just start kind of getting out there and getting that experience. Um and so yeah, that's that was why Marymount was the top choice for me.

[31:06] Dan Tracy: Yeah, and then you could audition all the time, and you got that hair tour pretty quickly, right? Was that your first major job?

[31:11] Emmy Raver-Lampman: That yeah, that was so I my sophomore year, we did um a production of Bright Light's Big City. Love that Gavin Creel and Patrick Wilson in that album, like are just I could sing 15 songs from that shit. Oh my god, y'all should go listen to Bright Light's Big City kids. It was Be More Chill before Be More Chill. I keep saying that. I keep being like thoroughly modern Millie was the Be More Chill before Be More Chill Guys, guys. You gotta listen to it. They're like, okay, boomer, shut up. Um, yeah. So we did that production, and the director is my friend. Um, well, not at the time, he was just Tom Batunick, but now he is a really good friend of mine and an amazing director. And he was the artistic director of the Astoria Performing Arts Center.

[32:00] Dan Tracy: Okay.

[32:01] Emmy Raver-Lampman: In Astoria. And so the summer after Bright Lights, they were doing Children of Eden. And so he approached me while we were doing Bright Lights and was like, I really want you to audition for this production of Children of Eden. I'm doing an Astoria. And I was like, fierce. Okay. So I auditioned and got cast as Eve and Mama Noah and had just like an amazing summer in Queens putting on this performance in a church basement. It was amazing. And that was like my first, you know, professional experience in New York, really. And the choreographer of Children of Eden was the associate for hair. And it was still on Broadway at the time. And they were sending out the tour. And so she was like, I think you, hey, when this is done, I think you should go in for the tour.

[32:11] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[32:11] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And I was like, well, I'm still in college, and you know, I'm going into my junior year, and you know, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whatever, whatever. Sure. And so I auditioned, got it, and ended up taking a year off of school. Um, and like off of school, kind of, I was actually, I have this is one of the other reasons why I chose and loved Marymount, is because, you know, they encouraged you to get real life experience outside of the school, um, as long as you had permission. And so, you know, I auditioned for hair, I got it. I went to my advisor. Um, and he's he was an incredible, incredible, incredible advisor. And I was like, hey, I'm gonna leave. I at that point I actually was uh on track to graduate early too. I was gonna graduate after one semester of my she's smarty pants.

[33:30] Dan Tracy: No, no, no.

[33:31] Emmy Raver-Lampman: I think I just I was like, I love to pack my schedule. Yeah, so then I just was like, you know, why spend four years if I don't need to spend four years, if I can do it in, you know, three and a half. Let's do it in three and a half and then I'm done. She ain't free kids, especially a private college on the upper east side of Manhattan. Absolutely not. Right. Um so I only had, you know, like essentially like a year worth of credits left, and I was taking a year off. So he was like, how about I will stay on as your advisor? We will approach a couple of the professors of the classes that you need that were not theater classes, uh-huh, and we'll see if you can get credit for being on this tour. Great. And if you can take some of these classes remotely.

[34:17] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Like remotely. Yeah. And so while I was on tour with hair for the first like nine months, I was, you know, writing report. I was taking this crazy biology class about HIV and AIDS. So I was like writing these like insane like biology like 12 page reports while I was like, you know, running around pretending to be a hippie at night. It's like it was so crazy. So I was like kind of taking class on the road and doing the show. And then so by the time I the um the tour closed and I went back to school, I actually only had three classes left. Um and I was able to fit all of those in two days. So I was only in school two days a week for a semester when I was done. So then, you know, and then that just kind of spiraled into, you know, Jeff Calhoun who um directed um Bonnie and Clyde and Newsies. And um, he directed Bonnie and Clyde, right?

[35:12] Dan Tracy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[35:12] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um he was casting the Jekyll and Hyde tour, and he's really close friends with Pat Simon, who's the head of the musical theater program at Marymount, and so he came and did a master class and I sang at the master class, and he approached me after the class and was like, I need you to come in tomorrow and audition for this Jekyll and Hyde tour that I'm doing. And I was like, What? And I was like my last semester at Marymount. And so the next I got the sides that night, went in the next morning, sang like good and evil, like in to Constantine Marulis and Frank Wild, like a full room. It was like I went to callbacks because like I had already missed the first round.

[35:48] Dan Tracy: You went to final day.

[35:48] Emmy Raver-Lampman: He called Justin Huff and was like, Hey, I'm adding a girl to the list for tomorrow. And I was like, What is happening? And so I went in and like before I even finished that last semester at Marymount, I knew I was heading back out on the road with that Jekyll and Hyde tour.

[36:01] Dan Tracy: So crazy.

[36:03] Emmy Raver-Lampman: That's um, that's amazing though. But also like you flexed your brain so hard that you were ready to like learn that in as much as anybody could.

[36:11] Dan Tracy: I know it was you know, it was like full C two songs, you know, and I wasn't really, you know, it was like a new one.

[36:17] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Yeah, I mean, I have a hard time. I try to memorize as much as I can for auditions because I just have a hard time being in the moment if I'm holding a piece of paper.

[36:29] Dan Tracy: I completely agree.

[36:30] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And so, you know, I think I stayed up all night and was just and I, you know, at that point I I wasn't I was obviously familiar with um Frank Wildhorn's music because I we had done a production of the Scarlet Pimpernel when I was in high school.

[36:42] Dan Tracy: Okay.

[36:42] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um so I but I was not familiar with Jekyll and Hyde. Um, so you know, I as much as I could, and it was like cuts, I don't think it was the full song, but um, but still, but yeah, that's wild. The next day. That's wild. Wow, that's amazing. He was like, What are you doing tomorrow? And I was like, Oh, you were like, uh trying to book.

[37:01] Dan Tracy: Jeff.

[37:02] Emmy Raver-Lampman: That's what I'm saying. Trying to keep this career afloat. Okay. Right. Trying to be booked and blessed. Jeff.

[37:07] Dan Tracy: Um so which is also crazy because I at that point, you know, my by the time I went back to Marymount, my graduating class had already graduated. So I was like a super senior. So I was taking classes with the class that were a year behind me. And so that master class was in theory for those seniors. And so I wasn't gonna go because I was like, no, I'm not gonna like it. That’s not my class. That feels weird. I don’t want to go. And Pat was like, I really need you to go because I think you need a relationship with this guy who's coming in to do this class. And I was like, Pat, I just feel uncomfortable. Like that that opportunity happened for my class a year ago. Right. You know what I mean? And she was like, Will you please just like she called me and begged me to go? And I was like, fine. And so like to this day, I'm like, I can't ever. Yep, you're right. Thank you. Thanks, Pat.

[38:00] Dan Tracy: Dang, that's amazing.

[38:01] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Yeah. And then that sh that tour came to Broadway.

[38:05] Dan Tracy: Yeah, for uh, you know, a whopping 27 performances, I believe.

[38:09] Emmy Raver-Lampman: But listen, I had fun, okay?

[38:13] Dan Tracy: No, it's really interesting because, you know, not to I know sorry, I'm fixing the cushions in your couch because they refuse to Yeah, so our couch does this beautiful thing where it just falls. The cushion just decides to fall off the front of it. That's really great. Um I guess I'm jump gonna jump ahead a little bit here. I because I want I do want to hear about what uh what your experience was like on the wicked tour as well, because I know that you did that. Did you do Wicked Broadway too?

[38:38] Emmy Raver-Lampman: No. Just the tour?

[38:40] Dan Tracy: Just the tour. But uh, what's interesting that I wanted to get into is that you've been uh you did a night with Janice Joplin too.

[38:46] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Yeah.

[38:46] Dan Tracy: And so you've done these two shows that didn't make it.

[38:51] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Yeah. Then you did Hamilton.

[38:53] Dan Tracy: I honestly, every I've I had only on broad on Broadway, I had only been in flops. Like the or I had flops or had only been ten weeks or less. Like when I was a part of when hair went back to Broadway for the summer of love, it was ten weeks, and then we left. And then Jacqueline Hyde, unfortunately didn't get the life that you know we had all hoped, and then Janice, you know, was like a short, a short moment as well. And so it was like I'd never so when I got Hamilton, I was like, wow, it's so different being on Broadway for more than 10 weeks.

[39:27] Dan Tracy: Right.

[39:28] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Like, you know, like actually getting, you know, some semblance of a routine, or you know, it's just it isn't, you know.

[39:34] Dan Tracy: So that that was a thing that I always thought about a lot.

[39:38] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Must have shifted your perspective.

[39:39] Dan Tracy: Yeah, I had no idea what it was like to do a show for, you know, more.

[39:42] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Right.

[39:42] Dan Tracy: To have that like actual job security must have been really strange.

[39:45] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And then you left.

[39:46] Dan Tracy: And then I left nine months later.

[39:49] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Because you had enough.

[39:52] Dan Tracy: Yeah, right.

[39:53] Emmy Raver-Lampman: So you left after nine months to go do the SpongeBob out of town and play Pearl, and I was there on opening night.

[40:01] Dan Tracy: Oh my god that's right.

[40:02] Emmy Raver-Lampman: You told me that the other day.

[40:03] Dan Tracy: Yeah, to see my friend Ethan Slater. Well, I was on the Sound of Music tour at the time, and my friend Kirsten Anderson, who I know listens to the show, was like, I have an extra ticket. Do you want to come? So I went with her.

[40:14] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And you were my favorite part.

[40:16] Dan Tracy: No.

[40:17] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Yes. I mean, obviously Ethan was amazing, but I knew he was gonna be amazing.

[40:21] Emmy Raver-Lampman: We'd done a reading a few years prior and he was like, Yeah, I'm working on this show with Tina Landau that's gonna be, you know, it should be pretty cool. Um I love that your Ethan voice kind of sounds like Pearl.

[40:34] Emmy Raver-Lampman: No, I just remember because like Lily Cooper was so great, but I was like, but who is that girl who played Pearl? With that giant wig and those spice girl platforms.

[40:42] Dan Tracy: Yeah, but you crushed. You sang down.

[40:43] Emmy Raver-Lampman: But listen, Tom Kitt.

[40:46] Dan Tracy: Yeah, that's right, huh?

[40:48] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Man, Tom Kitt. He was like, So how high is too high? And I was like, Tom, what are you trying to do to me?

[40:54] Dan Tracy: Right.

[40:54] Emmy Raver-Lampman: He was like, I just have this idea. And I was like, Oh god. So that opportunity came about and you were like, I can't pass this up. I'm gonna leave Hamilton or what was your thinking there?

[41:04] Emmy Raver-Lampman: So I actually I had been a part of SpongeBob for a little bit.

[41:09] Dan Tracy: Okay.

[41:09] Emmy Raver-Lampman: So I had done a couple of the like we there was like a 29 hour reading that I did, or a couple, you know, so I had been around it. It had yeah, I'd been around it for a while. Um and you know, it was just one of those things that like every time I came back to it, the part of Pearl was a little bigger. And I think, you know, I that was just the leap and the the trust fall, if you will, that I took to take, you know, because you know, as amazing as Hamilton is and was and will always be, and you know, I owe so much of my career to getting that opportunity and that team and you know, trusting me later down the line with, you know, a bigger part in the show.

[41:50] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um, but I I, you know, was in the ensemble and was the singer track and and just kind of as much fun as I was having and is as big of a uh, you know, a you know, global phenomenon that it became. I I just had to follow my gut that like I I knew I really ha wanted to work with Tina and I loved that cast and I just thought it was like something fun and special and kind of an opportunity that I didn't want to miss and you know I felt like that part was getting bigger because of me and like the Pearl song didn't exist until that Chicago production.

[42:32] Emmy Raver-Lampman: So when when we started rehearsals for for Chicago, they're like, oh yeah and then the Pearl song and I was like haha you're hilarious. And Tom was like no I'm dead serious. And I was like what do you mean I have a song? Do you know what I mean? Like I even when I left Hamilton I didn't know that I was walking into a bigger part than the last time that we'd done it.

[42:53] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And so you know I just they believed in me and and and were kind of growing this thing for me and it it just felt like that was something that I had to see through.

[43:04] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Yeah and and something that I wanted to and I was excited by it and and Tina is just like such a visionary genius and just has like the wildest ideas and loves she like every process for her begins with trust and with play playing.

[43:17] Dan Tracy: Right, right.

[43:18] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And that's just I love being in rooms like that. And so I just really wanted to you know and I knew there was gonna be like skateboarding on stage and rollerblading and like you know what I just knew it was going to be ridiculous. It was awesome and like and so over the top and I you know I think that was just it just I knew that that was just something that I needed to kind of explore and you know and leaving Hamilton you know I think they had made it very clear that like and I had made it very clear that like I am you have to trust your gut in this business. That's all you have.

[43:50] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And you have to kind of follow your heart. And you know, Andy and Tommy and Lynn and Lack, they all understood that and were, you know, very supportive and understanding and and were kind of like, you know, we'll see you again. And I was like, great, cool. There was no hard feelings in any way.

[44:06] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And then, you know, I was in Chicago doing SpongeBob and then it closed, and the team knew I was in Chicago. The Hamilton team knew I was in Chicago, and they're like, hey, you want to stay in Chicago and open the Chicago Hamilton Company? And I was like, I mean, okay.

[44:22] Emmy Raver-Lampman: So that's I mean, I literally didn't even know Karen Olivo out in Chicago.

[44:26] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[44:26] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And I think, you know, I that was they because I covered the sisters in my ensemble track, they it was really helpful for them to have somebody that already knew one of the tracks, just you know, to have coverage as soon as possible.

[44:41] Dan Tracy: Right.

[44:42] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And so I think, and knowing that I was, you know, SpongeBob was planning to go to Broadway, but there wasn't a timeline yet. And it took longer than I think they thought it might have and all that.

[44:50] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Yeah, and you know, there wasn't, you know, my track had been filled on Broadway, and so it wasn't like I they had something to offer me in New York, but I also was like, yeah, I'll start a new company and have another opening night party and you know, get to be in one of my favorite cities.

[45:03] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And yeah, and so it just kind of worked out that I didn't really I just ended up kind of staying in Chicago.

[45:10] Dan Tracy: That's amazing. Uh what was what was that room like creating Hamilton?

[45:15] Emmy Raver-Lampman: I mean, I know you joined after the public.

[45:17] Dan Tracy: Uh-huh.

[45:18] Emmy Raver-Lampman: But how much how much was changing day to day before you guys went to Broadway?

[45:26] Dan Tracy: I know that there was a lot that stayed, but there had to be some things that went.

[45:31] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And what was that like? What was that process like for you guys?

[45:34] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um the the process was actually I think a a lot less um hectic and chaotic than I think people think that show I mean because the show by that point and after their three month run at the public it was fully realized.

[45:54] Dan Tracy: Right.

[45:55] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And so by the time we got went back into the studio for Broadway it was j it was like tiny minute changes. Like it wasn't but I, you know, honestly though I didn't see it at the public so I can't I was I was actually in LA closing the wicked tour and so I wasn't able to see it.

[46:15] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And so you know I can't say how much of it was different but from what I can gather the rehearsals weren't about moving numbers around and rewriting stuff. It was about like finessing it was more mostly for Andy to like sure fix and add more choreography.

[46:36] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And you know the reason so they added me and Austin Smith to the ensemble and then Neil Haskell and Morgan Marcel um to the swing gang. Because I think and you've seen it though the ensemble they are dancing for their lives.

[46:52] Dan Tracy: I know and it is they are moving furniture they are you know chairs over their heads they are doing the absolute most and I think you know, the when they're being asked to do so much, I think Lack was like I just need more voices to fill it out so that it just feels like a fuller sound because these dancers and these other ensemble members are exhausted by what you know Andy was having them do.

[47:17] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And he was like, I just we just need like a we just need you know something for them to stand on. So I he added two vocal tracks, which was me and Austin.

[47:25] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And so most of our rehearsal was them trying to figure out where to put us in numbers that they weren't re-choreographing because they weren't, you know, it I'm not a dancer the way that Ari and Carly and Betsy and Sasha are.

[47:40] Emmy Raver-Lampman: I'm not that's that's not my way off. Not at all. I can give you a strong move.

[47:45] Dan Tracy: She can she can move.

[47:47] Emmy Raver-Lampman: But I can't keep my face, I can barely do a pirouette, you know. So it was just it was more about kind of um figuring out where to put us so that we still felt like a part of the show, but not just like you know, someone standing over in the corner.

[48:03] Dan Tracy: That's clearly just a vocal track.

[48:05] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Right. Um and then, you know, I think Lynn was kind of going in there and like finessing it a lot.

[48:11] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um, and but it wasn't it just was about cleaning.

[48:15] Dan Tracy: Sure.

[48:16] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And I think it I think, you know, because by the time they even got to rehearsals for the public, I mean that was probably the biggest rehearsal process was rehearsing for the public.

[48:24] Dan Tracy: So by the time we were rehearsing for Broadway, I there wasn't a lot left to learn like, I think for them to learn because it was, I mean, she was fully cooked, yeah.

[48:34] Dan Tracy: Right, you know, so it just was like tidying up, it was like maintenance, sure.

[48:39] Emmy Raver-Lampman: If not, you know.

[48:40] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um but but I mean that room was, you know, it was creative and fun, and I think people were having a great time.

[48:50] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And and I think people knew you were making the next great American musical.

[48:54] Dan Tracy: I don't think any I think I think so that by that point, by the time we started rehearsals, there were they had already sold 17 million dollars in advance sales at the box office.

[49:05] Emmy Raver-Lampman: They knew.

[49:05] Emmy Raver-Lampman: So like but honestly, for me, especially because I didn't do it at the public, because I didn't see it, because I was out of town and missed like the whole thing, I was like, what is this show? Do you know what I mean?

[49:20] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Like I just was like, I didn't know, and I was learning it and seeing it from the first time backwards. Like I was seeing it, I was in it. Do you know what I mean?

[49:27] Dan Tracy: Right.

[49:29] Emmy Raver-Lampman: I hadn't seen it.

[49:29] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Right. I, you know, Austin and I and Neil and um Morgan had a week of music rehearsals with Lack before everybody else joined. Just to like yes, to like catch us up.

[49:41] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And then, you know, and then everybody got there. It was like, great, meet and greet, we're going to Broadway. And they're and then Andy was like, Great, let's take it from the top of Room where it happens.

[49:48] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And me and Austin are like, the hell is room where it happens. Like, I know what I mean. Like, I still was like, I don't even know how that song I how it goes.

[49:57] Dan Tracy: Yeah, we learned it.

[49:58] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Can you help it?

[49:59] Dan Tracy: No, I couldn't.

[49:59] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Do you know what I mean? And so it just was like, so then we're standing in the back of the rehearsal room, and then you know, and Leslie just goes for it.

[50:07] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And I'm just like, what? What?

[50:09] Dan Tracy: But you know, I'm watching it from behind.

[50:11] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Right.

[50:12] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And so I don't, you know, so I just had such a warped like insider's view of what it was because I was like in panic mode, just trying to catch up.

[50:22] Dan Tracy: Sure.

[50:22] Emmy Raver-Lampman: You know, and even our first preview, like, you know, it was like dun, dun-da-da-da-da, dun. And I was like, I don't know where the fuck I'm supposed to stay.

[50:30] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Literally, and then we'd finish my shot and I'd be like, okay. Um, and like looking all over for the like song list, because I just like didn't, it was like so because we rehearsed for two weeks because they didn't need it.

[50:42] Dan Tracy: Right, right.

[50:42] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And then we went straight into the theater because they used the set from the public.

[50:45] Dan Tracy: Right.

[50:45] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Do you know what I mean? So it was just like it happened lightning fast.

[50:49] Dan Tracy: Right.

[50:50] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And it wasn't, I think, maybe four months in, I was swung out to watch Renee for the first time.

[50:58] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And we were like, oh, I didn't know any of this was happening on the show. This is crazy complex.

[51:05] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[51:05] Emmy Raver-Lampman: This is that show.

[51:07] Dan Tracy: So there's a little the the reason why I wanted to get into the piece of uh to ask about the Hamilton rehearsal is because I know that you guys fought for something that was pretty historic for the union that a lot of people who are fans of the business don't really understand.

[51:22] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And I had an interesting conversation with my mom about this last weekend where we were talking about uh profit share when a show is extremely successful and whether or not actors should be included in a profit share or a royalty when a show becomes profitable and starts making money.

[51:41] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And you guys were I mean, I know there have been other companies that have gotten this Book of Mormon got it and it's kind of a thing that you have had to fight for on a on a show by show basis, but you guys were paramount in that happening, but that it was can you talk a little bit about how that came to be?

[51:56] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm uh there's only so much I can talk about, but you know, I think the reason that it became such a a fight and and you know, and then it you know, it became this thing that kind of you know, equity got involved and other shows got involved, and it became kind of this big you know, monumental thing is because we were fighting for it after the fact.

[52:24] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Um I think you know, that is you know, it used to be that if you were doing a workshop of a new musical, you know, the producers were allowed to pay you what you want what they wanted, you didn't get insurance weeks, and you got a percent, but you did get a percentage of the profit share after the show recouped.

[52:46] Emmy Raver-Lampman: If it, you know, it had to recoup. Recoup meaning making all of its original investment back.

[52:51] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[52:51] Emmy Raver-Lampman: So it has to raise a certain money for Broadway. When it recoupes, it makes all that money back so that the show is only making profit from there forward.

[52:59] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Yeah. And then the cast in turn gets usually they all split one percent.

[53:06] Dan Tracy: So 37 people are splitting one percent of the profit.

[53:09] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Each um, and so, you know, every time that to my understanding, every time that they had done, you know, a la it that it had always been labs, and so that one percent was never um included for the cast members.

[53:24] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And I think, you know, it is it is a thing that is very important. I it it I think it should be included from the beginning. If you are cre helping creators create a piece of work, I I I just think it is it is so important for actors to feel like they have been involved and and that their artistic input and and artistry and creative energy and ideas are given the respect that they deserve.

[54:03] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And I yeah, and and it's not even just respect, it's like the ownership. You know what I mean? Because like there were everything that Leslie did to create Aaron Burr, to some extent is going to be put onto every single person who plays that role of course in perpetuity. Same thing when you were going to play Elphaba, everything that Idina Menzel did was put onto you, and you were expected to meet that standard and to do those things. And so shh, you know, unless so she has ownership of those things and and therefore that should be recognized. Yeah. In my opinion. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, with Hamilton, you know, I it is it is a so much of that ensemble, so much of that ensemble, and and and those principles, you know, so much of that show was, you know, built around them and for and for their strengths and for, you know, like what David was able to do with Lafayette Jefferson is, you know, insane.

Like guns and chips is like that hadn't existed on Broadway before because David had never been on Broadway before. Right. Do you know what I mean? Right. And like what what you know, Pippa, the softness and the you know, the elegance and the grace. She's fixing the couch again. Sorry. This couch is ridiculous. Oh my god, I'm calling IKEA right now. Well, I'll finish this and then I'll call them. I think you it's a lifetime return policy. So we should investigate. We should. We should let them know. Um so, you know, and and just you know, the grace that she she brought to this and her vocal capabilities, um, you know, that helped shape, you know, all of like burn and and helpless and you know, and lack sees that and and hears that and you know creates you know these vocal arcs for and any show creates like in the way that Tom was asking me, like how high is too high for the Pearl Song.

It's like he was writing that song with me in mind, you know, and so I think it is it is as an artist, it's really hard then to be an original cast member and then walk away from a show, knowing that you know it is making millions for you know you know Book of Mormon's still on Broadway, Wicked is still on Broadway, do you know what I mean? It's like and and knowing that as someone that originated a part, no matter how small, um, to walk away from that and and you know, that just you know, you wipe your hands cleaner, like, well, I guess that's it. It's like that's really um, you know, that's really hard to do. And I think Hamilton for me was like the first time being in a Broadway show where I I it was like palpable, like you you, you know, nobody dances like Ephraim Sykes, right?

Nobody, nobody dances like John Rua, nobody. Do you know what I mean? And you watch some parts in the show and you're like, oh yeah, that's Ephraim. Do you know what I mean? Like you watch some parts of the show, you're like, oh, of course, that's Seth. You know what I mean? Right. And so you know, a lot of these, you know, and with Andy and with Stephanie Clemens, who who is Andy's um unbelievable like associate and assistant choreographer, it just um, you know, they created this amazing thing, but it was built on these specifically selected artists, right? Because that is those are the people that Andy wanted to create the show with, and you know, so I think that is that is where everyone that is where we were all coming from, just knowing that this show by that point had 17 million dollars in advance sales.

Right. Which essentially, if that was the case, the show recouped. Right. Do you know what I mean? Before it even opened. Right. They've made they'd made their money back early. So, you know, I think so. I think it just was it felt like it was something that was worth the fight. And and I, you know, stood with my cast and behind them. Um, and it was not, you know, asking for a piece of the pie once the pie's already been cut is a really tricky, tricky situation. Right. And I think that's why it became, you know, such a big thing is because we were asking for it after the fact. Um and so I think that's why it kind of felt like it blew up and got, you know, got, you know, but then it also shed a lot of light on that side of the industry as a whole.

You know, I have a lot of friends that are were gonna be originating in Frozen and like from jump, it was like, and you're all getting a percentage. Do you know what I mean? Like it wasn't even it was just in their contracts from the beginning. And I think it's a cool standard that's been set because then the producers are showing the value that they put into the work that you're doing. And it just makes you feel respected as an artist. And and you know I think there there it feels on paper it like it could be it is a glamorous life living on Broadway and you're making all this money, but like sure, that looks like a lot of money, but I live in New York City. Yeah, sure. It's like so that at the end of the day levels out to coins in my hand.

And you're not always in a Broadway show, so there is no uh, you know, on TV, which we'll get into in a second. On TV you get sort of a royalty and perpetuity as long as that show continues to play and that doesn't exist on Broadway. So you go and you spend your time and then your time is over. Yeah, and there is no other kind of various forms of income, passive income to keep going in your career, which is really tough for us all. Um, I want to ask you briefly what what you learned. You stood by on the wicked tour with Stephanie Tornes. She did. And sh and uh, and I know you covered in Chicago and you covered uh on Hamilton in Chicago and you covered on Broadway. What if what have you learned from standing by and from understudying that you wouldn't have learned had you not done those things?

Um wow. Um I uh I honestly think I think my biggest takeaway is I learned how having those experiences and being an understudy and being a standby and being a swing. I actually learned how to be a leader from in what way in in just respecting the people that you share the boards with. I think and and that it starts at the top. Right. And and as a lead, how you treat your understudies and how you treat your standby and how you treat your swings and your ensemble members, like and how you treat everybody in the theater. Um, because you know, a lot of, you know, swings. When I, you know, when you're a swing, you go to the theater, you sign in, and then you go sit somewhere somewhere in the theater, and like you can honestly not see a single person in the show for the entire show.

Right. Or for an entire week if you wanted. You know what I mean? And I think when you are in that position, you witness a lot of things and you watch how people treat you and you see how people treat other people. And I think, you know, a lot of it is a common misconception that swings and understudies and vacation swings and standbys and alternates are not are just you know unfortunately a paycheck that and a requirement that is needed in case someone gets hurt, but like that is not the case, like swings, standbys, understudies, alternates they are the legs in which the chair is sitting on. Do you know what I mean? There is no show if you don't have those people, right? And I think I I like now, you know, playing Martha and being a lead of a show, and also, you know, when I was playing Angelica, it's just like I I feel so much more secure knowing that there is someone who has my back.

Right. And so for me, you know, and it it is it is also, you know, on me to make sure that that person feels comfortable and feels respected and feels valued because you know, I have been in a situation where that that those those niceties have not been paid towards me, and that sucks. And I it's it's just I would never want to put someone in that position when their only job is to make sure that I'm good and that I, if I need to take a day, I can't. If I need to go to a friend's wedding, I can't. If I need to not be in the show because I hemorrhaged, I can. Right. And the show will be fine. Right. And so it is to the detriment of the entire production to not value those people in those positions.

Right. So I think that is, you know, and of course I've learned how to multitask and sp split my brain into 17 different tracks. And like all of those things, but I think the one thing that I learned is how to lead a cast. And it's so, so, so important. It makes such a difference when the building is built on positive reinforcement rather than like some kind of judgment or clickiness or bullshit. Like it just, you know, what we do is hard. And like exposing yourself is hard and making mistakes should be welcomed. And I said this a few weeks back, but I think that that was my favorite part about that weird table cold read that we had to do on the first day here. Yeah. Because it was like, oh, okay, so this is gonna be a place where we all fuck up.

Yeah, oh yeah. It's like great. We've all seen each other before we've got a lot of people. We've all been shitty, so now it's all good. We all know that we are better than shitty and it's gonna be fine. Absolutely. And you know, and we it was like the afternoon rehearsal before our invited dress and and Robert O'Hara, our director got us all in a circle on stage and was like, if anybody wants to, you know, say anything, and Calvin was like, I just want to say thank you for letting me be in the room for this. He was like, I've never been in the room for like a new works before, right? And you know, a project that's just starting out, and he was like, It's just been so amazing, and was saying all these amazing things, and he was like, So thank you for letting me be like the smallest, like just the tiniest part of that.

And I instantly was like, um, can I say something? I was like, you are so far from the smallest part of this, right? Like, I know you feel that way because you're not up there with us and you don't have the opportunity to actually perform and you're like watching other the you know, watching us create this thing, but like don't for one second belittle yourself to that because this the comfort that I I feel just knowing that we ha uh that Saleh and I have a standby and that we have swings and we have and who are so unbelievably talented. For sure. Um it just was you know, I was like, let me just go ahead and correct you there. No doubt. Um and definitely as an audience member too. I saw I will never forget whenever I've seen Broadway shows and a cover goes on.

In most instances, somebody around you is gonna say some shit about it. Of course, but I I would encourage everyone listening the next time you see an understudy in a in a Broadway show or or a tour or something like that to realize that the person you're about to see is probably gonna be somewhere a lot further along five years from now, and you saw them and a really interesting moment. So that's that's definitely a perspective. I want to talk a little bit about Umbrella Academy, yeah. The show you're doing on Netflix. And uh first I just want to ask what you feel like the biggest differences are between working in television and working in theater. Um, I think I mean the the obvious aside from making a lot more money.

Honey, honey. Um I was like, oh man, I'm doing it wrong. I know. Um yeah, the the I mean, the obvious thing is this scale is different. You know, I think in what way? In yeah, you know, even in this, you know, the the signature is less than 300 seats, sure. But you still, you know, that was like Robert's biggest note over and over again was like, you know, you guys still need to project. And I've just been, you know, so used to TV acting where you like don't really have to you just talk to your scene partner. You just literally talk to your scene partners three inches from your face. Right. And there's a microphone in your mouth. Yeah, yeah. Literally dangling over your forehead. Right. And then you also have one on your body.

Right. And you're double mic'd. Right. So and the camera is, you know, a foot away from you. So it's like you essentially need to get like your eyes just need to glisten enough with emotion. And they're like, oh, she's crying. You know what I mean? Right, right. Um, where, you know, as on in Broadway, they need to see the mascara running down your face, you know, to the back of a 2000 seat theater. Um but even that is changing too. How you play to a space, I think is shifting. I think we still want to see authentic performance on stage. Yep. You know, but you have to yeah, but it's about scale. Yeah. Essentially. Not not being unauthentic, but just scale for sure. And I think um, you know, TV is TV is like a a 4D experience.

[1:07:38] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Do you know what I mean? Like, yes, there is a camera, yeah, but like you the camera is not the fourth wall, if that makes sense. Does that make any sense at all? So you have to be aware of what the camera's doing and seeing? Well, you um, no, I just mean, so you know, if you're on stage and you're sitting on the couch like you are, the audience is there. Right. But like so there is a wall that doesn't exist with people behind it watching you. And it's on one plane. And it's on one plane. Right. But in TV and film, it's like even though there's a camera so close to you, you still have to look over the camera, and there the world still exists past the camera. Right. It doesn't stop at the fourth wall.

Right. Like it does in theater. And you know, we always like stand at a slight angle to like to adjust for the audience. Whereas in like TV that doesn't exist. It's it is understanding the angles of your body in TV is like a thing that I honestly didn't really start to understand until the second season.

[1:08:37] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Did you like watch the first season? Did you um not not even that? I think just honestly, from watching the other actors around me. And like watching, you know, there are some actors that like will never have the camera at a certain angle. Like because it's just like that wall to their face. Sure, sure, sure. Get that camera off the floor. We will not be able to do that. Yeah, like I don't do up angles. You know what I mean? And it's like that for me, I was like, oh, who cares? But then I think the more the deeper I get into TV and working in front of the camera, I am so much more aware of like the the 4D experience that it is is that you have to be, you know, sure if the scene is like you and I staring at each other, but like the room is all around us, and even though there is a camera here, like the space is past it. Sure. Which is like it doesn't, it's not just like, oh, the camera's here, so I don't there's nothing exists behind the camera. Do you know what I mean? Does that make sense?

[1:09:39] Dan Tracy: Yeah, for sure. I think that's that that's the thing that that is so fascinating about really good film actors, like like a Benedict Cumberbatch who completely understands how to be perfectly authentic and true to the situation, yeah, the circumstance that the two characters are in, or however many, but he also knows exactly the story that's being told by the camera. So he's telling the story at exactly the right size, at exactly the right angle. He knows where to look so that you know it's it's fascinating to really watch the craft of TV acting, which I don't think that they talk about enough in theater school because we're all being trained for the stage.

[1:10:13] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Yeah. The craft of what angles mean and why the camera's a certain focal length, meaning which lens they use and what that does to the all of those things. If you're a young actor who has any aspirations to be on television someday, start paying attention to that kind of stuff in the world of filmmaking because it makes all the difference.

[1:10:33] Dan Tracy: Yeah. Um did you have any experience with that before you started? Did you with like did you were you taking classes or did you just kind of get this break?

[1:10:41] Emmy Raver-Lampman: You just got this break and you're like, let's figure this shit out. Literally zero. I had done Yeah, none. None. I had done it. I was like, I did some like commercials. Sure, sure. Safety swimming tips when I was 10, you know. Um no, and I, you know, and that so I think I especially the first season was just such a sponge because I was so out of my element. Right. And then I think I just relied on like just tell the story. Be in the moment, tell the story, sure. Don't look down the barrel. Right. Those were my goals. Right. Because also I do think there is a part of TV where because it's so personal and be s because it's so intimate, you do, and you know, uh, on my show uh we tend to film with two cameras at the same time.

So and also like, you know, sometimes you don't know where B Cam is. They're like they like pulled out a bookshelf and they're like they're hiding. They're hiding, you know what I mean? And so that also, you know, that also was again, this like 40 experience of like you never know where the other camera is, so you can't. So then sometimes I'd be in a scene and then just look and be like, fuck. I just looked directly down the barrel because I'm you know, you get so in the moment. Right. And because it's you know, you're not just in a house that doesn't have a wall, you are actually in a house, you know what I mean?

[1:12:04] Emmy Raver-Lampman: And they have to like jimmy rig these, you know, hang a camera from the chandelier and like or you know, so it's it's just it was a lot of pretending that you know there's always three people in a two-person scene. There's always the two people in it, and then the camera. And that is just as much a part of the the story as the story that's being told by the actors. Yeah. So you can't ignore it, but you also have to be aware of it and what it's getting. And I think the interesting thing for me is uh watching the first season, I so much of my my was my head angles, because in theater you're so used to craning your neck up for the balcony. So, like in a lot of my scenes, my chin is up, which is not a helpful angle for a camera.

Right. And so I think that was one thing watching back. I was like, oops, so this second season I was focusing so much more on like bringing it tugging in my chin as opposed to like presenting it, like even in theater, which is like, you know, being in the industry for almost two decades at this point, and not in you know, just being in theater. Right. It's like a natural habit to just like raise your chin to the balcony. And it's like you don't want to do that in TV film, because then they're just getting this weird angle of like your neck. Totally.

[1:13:12] Emmy Raver-Lampman: So um, but I do think it's a different it is different, but it's also the same. Like the fundamentals of acting are the same. Yeah. It's not it is just it is actually the physical part is different. Yes. It's the physical difference. It's not, it's not an emotional difference. Correct. I think. Correct. I think you just have to, you just have to you have to act on every side of your body. Cause when you're in theater, you learn to just act from the front. Right. But it's like so many, you're like the camera's following you from behind. You know what I mean? Or you know, or it's over your shoulder. So you do have to keep doing the same thing because you are in the shot even though it's not your close up.

You know, so it's just it's a it's a very I think that took me a minute to kind of for you know, I think initially I was like, okay, it's just like smaller. I just have to be smaller, like, you know, acting smaller acting choices, but it's just think it. No, that's not it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's actually it's like the the physical aspect of it. Actually, about how the pictures change.

[1:14:13] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Mm-hmm. The way that the pictures change is actually how we uh can understand that things have changed in the story and in in film. Yeah. Which is and it's also, you know, the show is also insane because it's not just, you know, it's not just it's not a drama. Do you know it's like, you know, I'm also dealing with like CGI and flying and fight choreography and explosives and guns and weapons and like it's like driving cars and giant chase scenes down a street, you know. It's like pulling on everything I never thought I would be doing at this point in my life. Um, so which is amazing, but it's like every every day on set I'm learning something new. Cause I'm also, you know, I'm playing opposite Ellen Page.

Hello. And Tom Hopper. You know what I'm saying? I'm just like working opposite these unbelievable actors who've been, you know, Ellen's been doing this since she was 10 years old. Right. She's been in front of a camera for 20 something years. Right. You know what I mean? And that's so it it just it is so effortless and easy for her. And she's so brilliant. And so I've just been, and she's so kind and giving and just so supportive. And her and I've gotten so close. And I just I admire her work so much because you're just like, God, she's she's like doing so little. And then you walked back and you're like, oh my God. She's it's brilliant. It's just it's it's just so inspiring. And everybody's so different. Everybody has such a different acting energy and technique, and and you know, but it's just been a true learning experience for me.

[1:15:47] Dan Tracy: So awesome. And you've done so much. And this is gonna be the last question. You've done so much, and you've you've strung so many things together, and and now you've got your TV show, and that could last for another six years. Fierce. Which is fierce. And uh we will ask this question. This is Joe's question that he always asks everybody, but what is your unreachable star? What's the thing that you wanna, what do you see yourself wanting to do 20, 30 years from now? What's your like thing that is on the horizon that you feel like this is all for?

[1:16:19] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Oh man. I try so hard not to think that way, which is so funny. I just like I, you know, a lot of people have like a five-year plan, a 10-year plan. Um, I've never really set goals for myself like that because I kind of I truly like to put my trust and faith in the universe and that like things will happen when they're supposed to happen and and and also like I don't know what I'm gonna want to do in 20 years, you know what I mean? I don't know where I'm gonna be. I don't know, I don't know what's gonna hold my interest and fill my soul and make me happy. Um so, you know, I think that that is like I I understand that question for so many people, but that is just kind of never been a way that I've lived my life. In the same way that I, you know, I started applying to colleges and was like, I guess I'm going to a theater school. Do you know what I mean? Like I just have kind of I, you know.

[1:17:20] Dan Tracy: But it sounds like you want to do things that are gonna fill your soul when I'm gonna do it.

[1:17:23] Emmy Raver-Lampman: Honestly, that's literally how I live my life. I have no idea you are going to it's going to be that. Yeah, I think things I want is I, you know, I I want to be happy and I I want kids and I I w you know what I mean? I want, you know, but honestly, outside of those two things, I think I just always try to do things that f fuel my soul. And then if I'm doing something that doesn't, I don't do it anymore. Hell yeah. Boom. So I love that. That's where I'm at. That's it. That's it. None of this doing things. Planning the money helped because I don't know. I just you set yourself for some sort of like rigid, rigid expectation of something that you have no control over.

[1:18:10] Dan Tracy: Absolutely.

[1:18:10] Emmy Raver-Lampman: So goals in this business are very hard because 1000%. A lot of the things that uh people put their uh a lot of goals that people set for themselves are actually outside of their control. You can't have book a Broadway show be your goal because that's not really up to you. Yeah, it's not. And it has nothing to do with you. Right. Ninety-nine percent of the time. It has nothing to do with you. Right. And so, you know, and I think that is a thing that I am learning still and even even more in TV and film. It's like, yes, the Broadway industry is very competitive. TV and film is to the tenth degree more competitive. Right. And so, you know, uh it umbrella for me feels like lightning in a bottle.

Like, I don't know how that happened. I was like, I guess I'll move to LA and like see what happens. And then literally two months later, I was like, I guess I'm moving to Toronto for six months. Like I it just truly happened that quickly, and that you know, I hadn't really even put all my eggs in that basket yet. I was still doing it. I had to leave Hamilton. I've left Hamilton three times, by the way. I had to leave Hamilton again to go do umbrella, you know what I mean? So I just I I just and that was you know, I hadn't even really put that onto the universe yet. And so I just I just think follow your happiness and follow what makes you happy and follow the the thing that fuels your soul because that is time is the only thing that we don't get more of. And I think boom, you just have to be careful precious with it. Put that in an Instagram and smoke it.

[1:19:44] Dan Tracy: That's going on. A t-shirt, get it at the merch store. You can get more merch. You can you can get more men who like musicals merch. You can get guys who like musicals. Oh, do I say men? Men, oh who's a man? I'm just a boy. I was trying to guy. I was trying to be polite. I appreciate you. Men who like musicals. Um, I want to say to Emmy Raver-Lampman, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you for giving us this time and for taking the trek uh a hundred yards for you to get to this apartment to do this. Fully in my pajamas, and I also want to say in front of all of you listening, okay, what I said to Emmy the other day, which is it's so nice to see someone making the show better every day.

You found so many things in this show that you've put your stamp on just because of like the brilliance of who you are, just allowing your like true self to come out through this character, and I feel and hear and see the audience kind of falling in love and responding to that every day, and it's so cool to watch. So thank you for teaching me those things and for being awesome.

[1:20:51] Emmy Raver-Lampman: You're the really you're the sweetest. That's really honestly. Thank you.

[1:20:56] Dan Tracy: You're welcome. That's really thanks for being here. All right, folks, till next time. Thank you for listening.