This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Joe Carroll: Do you want to know what my propane bill was last month, Carson?

[0:03] Carson Higgins: A thing you probably don't have to worry about in California.

[0:06] Joe Carroll: I think I don't have to worry about it at my parents' house, but a thing that also, uh, I'm immediately just jealous because I know that you've been barbecuing.

[0:14] Carson Higgins: No.

[0:14] Joe Carroll: Is that what that means?

[0:15] Carson Higgins: That's not what that means.

[0:16] Joe Carroll: I thought the same thing, but that is, uh, that's a big city kid thing.

[0:22] Carson Higgins: No.

[0:22] Joe Carroll: It's literally, literally heating the house.

[0:27] Carson Higgins: This is just to make sure you aren't cold.

[0:28] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[0:29] Carson Higgins: Because it's basically like the wind just right through the windows.

[0:32] Joe Carroll: It's just, it's if they're not there.

[0:34] Carson Higgins: He's not just like barbecuing 24 hours a day.

[0:36] Joe Carroll: Our propane bill, our propane bill last month was $600.

[0:42] Carson Higgins: Holy shit.

[0:43] Joe Carroll: This is what you need, Dan.

[0:45] Dan Tracy: Yep.

[0:46] Joe Carroll: You need more sweatpants and more sweatshirts and a beanie and all that stuff will save you $600.

[0:52] Dan Tracy: No, you know what? You'll look so cute. Just grow a beard in your set.

[0:56] Joe Carroll: We bought a microwave.

[0:57] Dan Tracy: That's the just keep this going, and it'll connect everything.

[1:01] Joe Carroll: We bought a microwave and an electric kettle, and I use the instant pot, and we basically don't turn on the oven.

[1:10] Dan Tracy: And it's hilarious.

[1:13] Joe Carroll: What's your electricity?

[1:15] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[1:16] Joe Carroll: Well, the electricity bill was only like 50 bucks a month.

[1:18] Dan Tracy: So we like had not been using any electricity, so it's not the oven's fault, dude.

[1:24] Carson Higgins: Dude, it is absolutely the oven's fault because we were using the oven to cook toast, bro.

[1:29] Dan Tracy: Okay, it's the most inefficient fucking thing you ever terrible.

[1:32] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[1:33] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[1:33] Carson Higgins: We got a toaster oven.

[1:34] Joe Carroll: Don't tell me what it is, Joe.

[1:36] Carson Higgins: It's a good start.

[1:37] Joe Carroll: Where's my beer?

[1:40] Carson Higgins: My camera fell.

[1:42] Joe Carroll: Joe thinks he's all fancy because he filmed a TV show.

[1:45] Carson Higgins: Let's fucking get after it.

[1:47] Dan Tracy: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[1:51] Joe Carroll: So an actor is saying his lines, and then out of nowhere, he just starts singing.

[1:59] Carson Higgins: Fox 67.

[2:03] Joe Carroll: With the song in Jimmy.

[2:07] Carson Higgins: Don't cry for me.

[2:17] Joe Carroll: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals. Dan is, uh, more hostile than usual.

[2:22] Carson Higgins: Hot start.

[2:22] Joe Carroll: He's got, he's got a vendetta against the propane, uh, industry and the gas company.

[2:27] Carson Higgins: That's definitely true.

[2:28] Joe Carroll: Um, we're really excited this week because our friend Carson Higgins is here.

[2:33] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[2:34] Joe Carroll: Longtime friend of the podcast.

[2:35] Carson Higgins: Long time for, uh, first time long time.

[2:37] Joe Carroll: First time long time.

[2:39] Carson Higgins: First time, long time.

[2:41] Joe Carroll: You may remember that Carson was quoted in the Gavin Creel episode, actually misquoted in the Gavin Creel episode, and then we made fun of him for sounding like a pothead, but it was my fault because I misquoted Carson.

[2:54] Carson Higgins: And you know what I love about that story is the only people that remember are me and Gavin because we've been in love ever since.

[3:01] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[3:02] Carson Higgins: Wow. Hi, Gavin. Got you back, tagged you back.

[3:05] Joe Carroll: Let's take a moment of silence for our love for Gavin Creel.

[3:09] Carson Higgins: Oh man. Well, wait, he's still alive.

[3:12] Joe Carroll: I can still take a moment of silence for my love for him.

[3:14] Carson Higgins: Also, Matt's back too.

[3:16] Joe Carroll: Matt's back.

[3:17] Carson Higgins: Matt moves.

[3:18] Joe Carroll: What's going on?

[3:19] Carson Higgins: Second time, long time.

[3:22] Joe Carroll: Our social media manager, the man who, uh, who put this all together.

[3:27] Carson Higgins: Um, so we're keeps us alive, keeps us, uh, paying our bills with our podcast, which we don't, but we'd like to.

[3:34] Joe Carroll: Um, but Carson's here. We're so happy you're here. Um, crossover episode. Carson, you have a podcast, uh, film podcast.

[3:42] Carson Higgins: Uh, what can you tell the people about it real quick?

[3:45] Carson Higgins: I would love to tell the people about it. And thanks for bringing it up, Joe Carroll.

[3:49] Carson Higgins: Uh, it is the First Rule of Film Club. That's the name of the podcast because it is an offshoot of the film club that I've been running through the pandemic and even before, uh, the Filmstruck Film Club, which is, uh, it gets its namesake from a now defunct streaming service called Filmstruck.

[4:07] Carson Higgins: It's basically been overtaken by Criterion Channel. So we tend to watch international films, foreign films, older films, classic films, and then the podcast kind of just came out of, uh, being jealous of you guys having a show.

[4:21] Joe Carroll: And so I wanted to get a microphone and talk to my friends about movies.

[4:24] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[4:25] Carson Higgins: And so it's been a lot of super fun. It's been a really, really good time. I've been trying to get on it for months and months and months, and you know, I was pursuing three different three new careers at the same time, so we haven't been able to do it.

[4:36] Carson Higgins: But the seat is ready and warmed up for you, Dan.

[4:40] Carson Higgins: And that goes for you too, Joe. If you want to come tell me all the reasons why you just hate The Sound of Music.

[4:48] Joe Carroll: Yep.

[4:48] Carson Higgins: No, that's what I would do. Joe would go on there and tell you all of the things he loves about his favorite rom-coms because that's his favorite genre.

[4:56] Joe Carroll: Hey, it's a great genre.

[4:58] Carson Higgins: Like get Joe on there to talk about Love Actually or something.

[5:01] Joe Carroll: A good pandemic rom-com? Come on, that's me.

[5:04] Carson Higgins: Maybe like P.S. I Love You, maybe just really like lean into it, you know.

[5:04] Joe Carroll: Well, Joe, I, we, I'm not sure gonna have a blast.

[5:15] Carson Higgins: These are great movies.

[5:15] Joe Carroll: I am a massive rom-com guy.

[5:15] Carson Higgins: Joe, you are a rom-com.

[5:18] Joe Carroll: I would love, like what do you mean I am? What does that even mean?

[5:21] Carson Higgins: You walk into a room and I'm like, uh, that guy likes rom-com.

[5:28] Joe Carroll: I don't know if that's, if I should take offense to that slightly, but, um, yeah, I, I will do it. I want to do like a, like a When Harry Met Sally episode or something, which still I, I think is like the absolute top of the mountain as far as rom-coms are concerned.

[5:33] Carson Higgins: See, Joe's like When Harry Met Sally, and I'm like Kramer vs. Kramer. You know, it's like a little, I'm just on the opposite side there, you know.

[5:50] Joe Carroll: You're like so four, right? Just like a dark horrible threat.

[5:55] Carson Higgins: Zodiac two totally off.

[5:58] Joe Carroll: Carson, what's your, what's your, uh, what's your pick for best picture this year? Do you have a front runner?

[6:05] Carson Higgins: So if I, if I was like a betting man and I had to say what's going to win, I'd, I'd say Nomadland is probably gonna win best picture.

[6:12] Joe Carroll: Yeah, cool.

[6:12] Carson Higgins: Uh, but if I had it my way, man, that trophy would go to Promising Young Woman.

[6:18] Joe Carroll: That was a good one.

[6:20] Carson Higgins: That movie is unreal.

[6:22] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[6:23] Carson Higgins: That movie, like took, can I say the F-word on this?

[6:26] Joe Carroll: Absolutely.

[6:27] Carson Higgins: That movie fucked me up. Like I, and I was very lucky to watch it with two women, my mother and my girlfriend, right?

[6:38] Carson Higgins: It was the three of us. And so I, I had my whole own experience of just like being blown away, like, oh my god, Emerald Fennell made a great movie for her first feature film ever. Carrie Mulligan, killing it. The screenplay is dynamite, and I'm just sitting here blown away, and then I have two women that are like fully traumatized, and so then it led to the most incredible conversation after watching that movie.

[7:03] Carson Higgins: And I mean, like I love talking to dudes about that movie because then it like I can figure out which ones haven't talked to women enough lately.

[7:15] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[7:16] Carson Higgins: My favorite review from a dude about that movie is, yeah, I don't know. I thought it was kind of, I don't know. I thought she was just like really mean.

[7:24] Joe Carroll: Oh god.

[7:25] Carson Higgins: Did somebody actually say that?

[7:27] Carson Higgins: I've heard two people say that, that she's just like a very unlikable lead character.

[7:33] Joe Carroll: Oh, that is, that's like you could not have missed the point of that movie more if that is your takeaway.

[7:44] Carson Higgins: This, I had a conversation with someone that the, that movie is just there's no good men in the whole world, and that's what that movie wanted me to know. And I was like, well my god.

[7:55] Joe Carroll: Sounds like you're a part of the problem, sir.

[7:58] Carson Higgins: Yeah, yes, yeah, yes, yeah.

[7:58] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah.

[8:03] Carson Higgins: It gets to the end. I just, well, we, uh, Alex and I just watched it last night, and um...

[8:09] Joe Carroll: Yeah, it's, it's solid.

[8:11] Carson Higgins: It's a real good, we, and we just again we talked it just, uh, for, you know, an hour, hour and a half. It's a real conversation after the start of this movie.

[8:19] Joe Carroll: And totally, you know, it was, it was really, but it sounds like the, the person you're talking to really sided with Max Greenfield's character at the end.

[8:29] Carson Higgins: Well, you know, it was, it was definitely a person who likes, who really was bummed that Joker didn't win Best Picture last year.

[8:36] Joe Carroll: So yeah, there we go.

[8:37] Carson Higgins: Got it.

[8:38] Joe Carroll: Got it.

[8:40] Carson Higgins: Awesome.

[8:41] Joe Carroll: Jesus.

[8:42] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[8:42] Joe Carroll: Definitely check out Carson's podcast, The First Rule of Film Club, available everywhere, um, and, uh, check out my episode that has not come out yet about rom-coms.

[8:54] Carson Higgins: And, uh, a really good one.

[8:56] Joe Carroll: It's our highest reviewed one in Brazil.

[8:59] Carson Higgins: Oh god bless you, Carson. So this week though, uh, this is our musical theater podcast and we are doing, we are in round two of our musical March Madness, March Madness throwdown extravaganza, whatever the hell we're calling this one of our greatest weeks on social media ever. I'm a, I like, we, people are angry at us, Daniel. They got, people are, are, are fired up and Carson's here to help us, you know, sort of get through the next couple rounds of this, uh, so that there's no bloodshed. I'm probably gonna drop in the audio of what Carson had to say to me after we didn't pick My Fair Lady. That's gonna have to go in there now.

[8:59] Carson Higgins: You must, you absolutely must.

[8:59] Joe Carroll: Um, apparently, you know, Carousel's not good enough for Carson, so we had to just bring him on here to make sure that his voice was heard because what all the people need is another straight white dude to weigh in on our favorite musicals. But to, to, you know, shout from the rooftops that My Fair Lady deserved a better shake than that. I don't know what the, what is the saying? There's no saying for what you have done to the musical.

[8:59] Carson Higgins: Is My Fair Lady one of your favorites of all time? Is that like one from your youth?

[8:59] Carson Higgins: So full, full disclosure, Joe, I didn't know how deeply the feelings went until I found out how hardcore you guys like talk shit about it. And then all of a sudden I was super defensive and I was like, are you guys talking about Eliza Doolittle? Are you fucking kidding me? That's like, who cares about Mr. Snow and whatever bullshit he's dealing with? My Fair Lady is a way better show. And I, that was just so I was mad at the time of listening to it. I'm still kind of mad.

[10:43] Joe Carroll: You brought it up.

[10:44] Joe Carroll: A lot of people.

[10:45] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[10:45] Carson Higgins: Snow is the most likable man. Like, come on.

[10:46] Joe Carroll: No, I don't know. I was just, the issue that I have with Carousel, I remember the first time I saw it actually was University of Michigan's production where, uh, Gary McGropper played Billy Bigelow. Um, he, that when the Star Catcher comes out, when like the, the, I was like, okay, you lost me.

[11:08] Carson Higgins: I remember my first interaction with that show was reading it in class. You know, when you read it and like listen to the score alongside the libretto, and which I still recommend that was my first interaction with Dreamgirls.

[11:20] Joe Carroll: It's like what, which score were you listening to?

[11:23] Carson Higgins: I don't remember.

[11:24] Joe Carroll: But just say it's the OG.

[11:26] Carson Higgins: Sure.

[11:27] Joe Carroll: OG.

[11:28] Carson Higgins: It actually may have been. And you know, John Ray. And when you get to the end, it's like, why did we go here?

[11:35] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[11:37] Joe Carroll: You know? It's like this could have been great if we just had a legitimate ending. Like a sad ending where suddenly, I don't know. I'm not gonna pretend to write the ending of one of the greatest musicals of all time, but the ending is, it's problematic.

[11:49] Carson Higgins: I mean, both of those musicals, Carousel and My Fair Lady, we said it last week, they, they got some problems.

[11:54] Joe Carroll: But I'm just glad we've moved away from Dream Ballets, you know.

[11:59] Carson Higgins: No, I actually kind of disagree. I'm a big dream ballet fan.

[12:02] Joe Carroll: I'm bringing it back in the show I'm working on.

[12:07] Carson Higgins: A show of just dream ballets.

[12:09] Joe Carroll: It's all dream ballets, and then the third act, there's a m, uh, one song that somebody sings.

[12:15] Carson Higgins: That's called a dance piece.

[12:17] Joe Carroll: I should, I should say I don't know, because, uh, you know, in the same token, the dream ballet in Billy Elliott is obviously one of my favorite things ever.

[12:24] Carson Higgins: Right.

[12:24] Joe Carroll: So I can't totally say that for sure, but, uh, the end of like going to heaven and then like dealing with purgatory at the end of a musical which has never alluded to that really, which I guess it kind of does because the Star Catcher is omnipresent, but we'll get into that in a minute.

[12:43] Carson Higgins: Let's get going here.

[12:44] Joe Carroll: Let's get going.

[12:44] Carson Higgins: We are over 15 minutes in here.

[12:46] Joe Carroll: We gotta talk about some shows.

[12:47] Carson Higgins: We gotta actually talk about some music.

[12:49] Joe Carroll: No, I'm slowing us down.

[12:50] Carson Higgins: All right.

[12:51] Joe Carroll: Okay. So let's, uh, let's get into it.

[12:53] Carson Higgins: All right.

[12:55] Joe Carroll: So first up, we have, uh, Legally Blonde going up against Rent.

[13:01] Carson Higgins: Rent in the pop rock category, round one.

[13:05] Joe Carroll: Um, yeah, Dan, you want to go first?

[13:09] Dan Tracy: I said Rent.

[13:10] Dan Tracy: I took, I took not one second.

[13:13] Joe Carroll: Okay, great.

[13:15] Dan Tracy: Rent.

[13:16] Joe Carroll: Next, next.

[13:17] Dan Tracy: Okay.

[13:17] Joe Carroll: Easy, cool, awesome.

[13:19] Dan Tracy: Sorry, Ellen Marsh.

[13:20] Joe Carroll: This is, this is really shitty podcast content.

[13:23] Dan Tracy: This will be a nine minute episode.

[13:25] Joe Carroll: Just throw a drum roll or something in right before.

[13:28] Dan Tracy: A big explosion sound.

[13:29] Joe Carroll: That's it.

[13:30] Dan Tracy: Yeah, exactly.

[13:31] Joe Carroll: Well, the people, it's gotta be Rent for all the reasons we said.

[13:34] Dan Tracy: And the people agree.

[13:36] Joe Carroll: Yeah, it's just, but there was a lot of votes for Legally Blonde, right?

[13:40] Dan Tracy: Yeah, tallied up. We have Rent ended up at 296 up against Legally Blonde at 217.

[13:47] Carson Higgins: Oh. Wow. So it was like surprisingly much closer to what I would have thought. You know what I wonder though, and this is something that I was thinking about just in general with our—wait, wait. Can you believe 500 people voted?

[13:58] Joe Carroll: It's pretty outstanding.

[14:01] Carson Higgins: Sick. It's pretty outstanding. Not to get too excited about it, but that's pretty outstanding.

[14:05] Dan Tracy: Yeah. It's impressive, y'all.

[14:08] Carson Higgins: Yeah. Our show is, uh, we're kind of a—we're the number 40 podcast of Brazil.

[14:13] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[14:16] Carson Higgins: Theater category. Yeah. What I was thinking about based on last week, it seems like—and I'm interested to see how the voting goes this week—but that the more contemporary shows, the shows that people like, the shows that people have seen, that there's movies of, that are more recently revived, that people have an attachment to, that those shows do tend to get some love. So, like, Legally Blonde, I mean, you can still watch it.

[14:38] Dan Tracy: Yeah, you know, that MTV recording.

[14:44] Carson Higgins: Um, Alex and I a few nights ago—totally, this was a couple weeks ago—no, we absolutely had a bunch of wine and watched that reality TV show.

[14:54] Dan Tracy: Search for Elle Woods.

[14:55] Carson Higgins: Search for Elle Woods. One of the best things, one of the best things ever made. Just watching the first couple episodes where, like, Lauren Zakrin is in there and Lena Hall. Yeah, and like some absolute studs. And you're like, anyway, it's worth it. It's worth a rewatch. It's good early 2000s reality TV.

[15:16] Dan Tracy: Like Bernie Telsey is so funny.

[15:20] Carson Higgins: Bernie Telsey, he's sitting behind the table, like doing his best impression of a person who's not on camera. He's like, he's like, clear the camera's on him, and he's like trying pretending to run an audition room, you know?

[15:32] Dan Tracy: Right.

[15:32] Carson Higgins: It's like, it's so good.

[15:34] Dan Tracy: It's, um, I think you're pushing, Bernie. You're pushing a little.

[15:36] Carson Higgins: I think you don't feel like you have to show.

[15:39] Dan Tracy: Can we take it back a bit? Can we just like take it back one more time for Bernie?

[15:43] Carson Higgins: Oh my gosh. It was really worth it. You guys, you realize he's gonna hear this because I'm on the show. You know that he's gonna hear this, right?

[15:49] Dan Tracy: Oh, that's okay.

[15:50] Carson Higgins: I don't think I said anything too mean, right? I'm just saying, you know, we mean—you just criticized his acting, so it's meaningful.

[15:56] Joe Carroll: Black and Bernie on the links.

[15:59] Carson Higgins: Yeah, you guys are—you guys have a weekly tea time, Carson?

[16:03] Carson Higgins: Yeah, yeah. I haven't told him I'm an actor; I don't want to jinx it. It's just relationship building.

[16:07] Dan Tracy: It's just good networking.

[16:09] Carson Higgins: Flip your headshot.

[16:10] Dan Tracy: It's just really good networking. Slip your headshot into his golf bag.

[16:14] Carson Higgins: No, you don't even need to. Just like—no, I haven't even alluded that I have one of those. He's just one day he's gonna say, "Man, have you ever thought of being an actor?" And you're gonna say, "Well, Mr. Telsey..."

[16:22] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[16:25] Carson Higgins: Actually, I was thinking about joining the tour.

[16:29] Dan Tracy: Okay, well, it's good. All right. All right. So Rent, Rent, yeah, Rent takes it. FTW. Fantastic.

[16:35] Joe Carroll: All right. Hair and Spring Awakening.

[16:39] Carson Higgins: So, I mean, Spring Awakening shouldn't even be here.

[16:42] Dan Tracy: So I'm just—I—oh yeah, you're still heated.

[16:46] Carson Higgins: Dan's still bitter about Next to Normal.

[16:49] Dan Tracy: Just, you know, in this first round. I gotta say, I gave Next to Normal a full album listen after listening to this episode last week. And I gotta say, I think I agree with you after listening to it again. That album is so good. That show is so good.

[17:05] Carson Higgins: You guys are all talking about this like it's an opinion, but it's not. Okay, this is fact. This is not my opinion. This is fact. This is objective fact, okay? So yeah, I agree. Next to Normal is better than Spring Awakening. I don't know how Spring Awakening won the first round. Here we are.

[17:20] Joe Carroll: Awesome.

[17:20] Carson Higgins: Exactly. Sky's blue. Grass is green.

[17:24] Dan Tracy: That's right. Now, I think for this one, I have—I'm gonna go Spring Awakening over Hair, and I don't—I think I'm giving up a little bit on, like, the historical significance. Again, we talked a lot last week that Hair is, you know, Spring Awakening exists because of Hair, Rent exists because of Hair, of course, and that is not to take anything away from it. But as far as a concept musical about the Vietnam era, it was unbelievable. But Spring Awakening for me, um, when they pulled out the mic, when they pulled out the microphone from the jacket and the inner monologue, the inner rock and roll monologue. I just—I’ll never forget. Yeah, I’ll never forget it. I’ll never forget it.

[18:09] Carson Higgins: Yeah, I don't disagree, actually, and I wasn't sure which way I was gonna go, but now that you talk about it, I think you can latch onto the individual character arcs in Spring Awakening more than you get to in Hair just because of the nature of the book musical.

[18:32] Dan Tracy: And correct me if I'm wrong, but there are not a lot of musicals about teenage suicide, if any.

[18:42] Carson Higgins: Well, there's a pretty successful one about a kid who broke his arm.

[18:49] Dan Tracy: Writes letters to himself.

[18:52] Carson Higgins: Sure. That's two that couldn't have existed without Spring Awakening.

[18:57] Dan Tracy: Amen. Amen. Very true. Amen.

[19:00] Carson Higgins: So Spring Awakening.

[19:04] Dan Tracy: And Wisconsin. I'm not gonna patronize or condescend to our listeners because they know exactly what we were talking about.

[19:10] Carson Higgins: You do it all the time.

[19:11] Dan Tracy: We're, you know, screaming at our—and then I realized we're not that fancy and there aren't like random—it's only people who love musicals listen to this, you know.

[19:18] Carson Higgins: Exactly.

[19:19] Dan Tracy: But 500 people voted on our Instagram story, so like I'm feeling we're pretty big deals.

[19:23] Joe Carroll: We're gonna make seventy-eight cents off of ads this month.

[19:29] Carson Higgins: Let's go pay that propane, guys.

[19:32] Joe Carroll: What are you gonna get?

[19:35] Carson Higgins: That's right. Nobody, that's going to your beer bonus.

[19:39] Joe Carroll: Let's go to the next one.

[19:44] Carson Higgins: Totally. For what it's worth, I voted for Spring Awakening on the Insta Story voting thing. So, you know, I'm feeling pretty confident with my choice.

[19:55] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I was gonna say you are one of three hundred and thirty-seven that voted Spring Awakening with Hair at 163.

[20:03] Carson Higgins: Yeah. Nice simple two thirds. And also, you know what? Just looking forward to the next round. We all know that Rent would just mop the floor with Hair. Sorry. So it's gonna be a better matchup if it's Spring Awakening and Rent.

[20:15] Dan Tracy: The showdown of Rent and Spring Awakening is gonna be—it's pretty dope.

[20:18] Carson Higgins: That's a showdown.

[20:19] Joe Carroll: That's a showdown. That's a solid matchup.

[20:23] Carson Higgins: And it should have been Rent and Next to Normal.

[20:25] Dan Tracy: Okay, what's next?

[20:25] Carson Higgins: Moving to the contemporary bracket. Yep. We got Ragtime and Hamilton.

[20:33] Joe Carroll: Okay. W—something I do not want Hamilton to make it to the final game.

[20:44] Carson Higgins: I don't—you know what I mean? Like, it probably will, but I'm already seeing it that like it's the—it might be the greatest musical of all time. And—but it's too early to say.

[21:03] Dan Tracy: But I guess license bias is what's whooping our ass.

[21:07] Carson Higgins: Big time. I—from a story perspective for me, though, Hamilton's just—it's just almost perfectly structured show.

[21:19] Joe Carroll: I yeah, I mean, we talked about Ragtime being a little too epic at times. I don't know. I don't know. This one's hard for me. I really love Ragtime, and I'd love to see an upset right here, but I doubt it's gonna happen.

[21:34] Carson Higgins: Did you know that there's the song—is it "Your Daddy's Son" from Ragtime?

[21:40] Joe Carroll: Yeah, that's the song that like made me want to do musical theater.

[21:43] Carson Higgins: Really?

[21:43] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I love that because check this out. So I went to a bat mitzvah where we got like party favors, and one of the—the girl whose bat mitzvah was, she loved Broadway musicals, and so we all got this like mixed CD when those were a thing that people would get.

[22:02] Carson Higgins: That's a classic bar and bat mitzvah giveaway gift as a person who's been bar mitzvahed and I've been to about 900.

[22:09] Joe Carroll: Excellent choice on her end.

[22:11] Carson Higgins: Boom. There you go. Shout out to Rosie.

[22:13] Joe Carroll: Get it, Rosie.

[22:14] Carson Higgins: Uh, but yeah, so I'm listening to this CD because I like musicals. I had done a couple at this point, you know. I was, what, 13 years old, and I'm listening to this CD in the car with my mom, and I start crying when she goes, "I buried my heart in the ground."

[22:34] Joe Carroll: Oh, dude, come on.

[22:36] Carson Higgins: Yeah, so good for real. Sorry for the key choice, but it was a weird key.

[22:40] Joe Carroll: We're good with bad singing on this show.

[22:43] Carson Higgins: I thought you sounded great.

[22:44] Joe Carroll: Fuck you, Jason.

[22:45] Carson Higgins: I was gonna go for my Audra.

[22:47] Joe Carroll: What is that about?

[22:48] Carson Higgins: I was gonna do it in the falsetto soprano voice, but I chose against it. And you're flawless in my eyes, Carson.

[22:56] Dan Tracy: You're a beautiful human, and so yeah, man, Ragtime holds a near and dear place in my heart for being the—and to just to kind of wrap it up, I had only ever really understood how musicals could make one laugh by singing and dancing a musical comedy. And so then really discovering a dramatic musical, one that was able to move me, especially at such a young age, someone who will never bear a child and then bury it, it was fucking traumatic, but I've always said that that's just the best song ever.

[23:33] Carson Higgins: Yeah, yeah.

[23:35] Joe Carroll: I struggle here. I can't—I honestly don't even know which direction to go because, you know, Ragtime checks so many boxes of what the—it's almost like the furthest extension of the original book musical form, but so is Hamilton.

[24:01] Carson Higgins: Uh, you know, in a way, Hamilton's an opera, bro. So, like, what's up?

[24:06] Joe Carroll: Yeah, it's like more words. What is it? Alexander Hamilton's—

[24:12] Carson Higgins: Yeah, in musical history, right?

[24:14] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah. And like, Hamilton has more lines than Hamlet and King Lear.

[24:21] Carson Higgins: Jesus, is that true?

[24:23] Joe Carroll: Something like that.

[24:24] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[24:24] Joe Carroll: That's insane.

[24:26] Carson Higgins: Alexander Hamilton is a wordier role than Hamlet.

[24:29] Joe Carroll: Yes.

[24:30] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[24:30] Joe Carroll: So my vote is for Hamilton.

[24:32] Carson Higgins: Something like that.

[24:33] Joe Carroll: I don't want to—I gotta go.

[24:36] Carson Higgins: Hey, man, it sounds right.

[24:38] Joe Carroll: It's one of those things that sounds right.

[24:39] Carson Higgins: Would not be surprised.

[24:40] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[24:41] Carson Higgins: Yeah. It's just—and also, like, I think the—his sort of pop culture implication cannot be overlooked. That like that shit was on the radio. The Hamilton mixtape was as close as we have gotten as a community to like having a top 40.

[25:00] Joe Carroll: Yep.

[25:01] Carson Higgins: Right? Like returning to the golden age of jazz standards and Rodgers and Hammerstein or whatever. So, you know, it's just gotta be.

[25:09] Joe Carroll: But like, is it the—is it the first filmed musical ever to be nominated for a Golden Globe for Best Picture? Because that would be something worth knowing.

[25:16] Carson Higgins: That I would put that to the movie expert thing to signify.

[25:23] Joe Carroll: That's probably awesome.

[25:25] Carson Higgins: I think it's the only filmed musical to be nominated for Best Movie at any movie award show, but you know, someone go ahead and Google it and tell me I'm wrong.

[25:36] Joe Carroll: I don't think that—I—you have to be right because they haven't even been filming stage musicals for that long.

[25:43] Carson Higgins: And like that widely released—and the stage musical VHS of Into the Woods is pretty freaking fire, guys.

[25:51] Joe Carroll: So, I mean, that thing is a cinematic masterpiece.

[25:56] Carson Higgins: No, I don't think so either. It's obviously a joke, but no, you're—it's a really good point.

[26:01] Joe Carroll: So what did the audience say?

[26:02] Carson Higgins: Uh, not surprising, overwhelmingly. 386 Hamilton, 117 Ragtime.

[26:09] Joe Carroll: These—these not for the same for Hair and Spring Awakening.

[26:13] Carson Higgins: Yeah, those numbers were off by like four or five, but very—I caught that too. Very interesting that they were so close.

[26:19] Joe Carroll: Okay. Well, if you're out there and you voted for Hamilton and you haven't listened to every version of Ragtime, shame on you. Get out of here.

[26:26] Carson Higgins: That's all.

[26:28] Joe Carroll: You tell them.

[26:29] Carson Higgins: Yeah. That's it.

[26:30] Joe Carroll: That's it.

[26:31] Carson Higgins: I owe so much to you. You've changed my life, all of you. But go listen to the goddamn cast recording of Ragtime.

[26:40] Dan Tracy: Um, all right. So as we move into the bottom of the contemporary category, I do have to say that the choice where I came out from Pro Waitress over Come From Away last week, there was a rift in the household.

[26:53] Carson Higgins: Oh no.

[26:53] Dan Tracy: Uh, we got over it, but, um, you know, sleeping on the couch.

[26:57] Carson Higgins: Yeah, Come From Away.

[26:59] Dan Tracy: Um, we—I mean, just stimulating conversation. You know, but, uh, you know, according to who?

[27:06] Carson Higgins: But I—well, me, I guess that's an excellent joke. That's well done there.

[27:11] Dan Tracy: Um, but you know, Alex did it for two and a half years.

[27:14] Dan Tracy: Um and I think that that Dan, your criticism of it as it being a journalistic piece, she really agreed with.

[27:24] Joe Carroll: Oh.

[27:25] Dan Tracy: That like that is the only that's the you know, from a from a perspective, like when you leave Come From Away, I would I would venture to guess that people feel better, feel more stoked on life leaving Come From Away than they do leaving Waitress.

[27:39] Joe Carroll: Now, time will tell. Obviously, Come From Away is running all over the world and will continue to. Waitress is gonna be done all over as well, but it's not being done as as you know, it's not still running.

[27:52] Dan Tracy: I don't know. We we got into it a little bit. Um, and I just stood by like Waitress for me is is about flawed people, and I love shows about flawed people. I love that more than anything. Movies too. So um, but yeah, it was good.

[28:07] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah, we we we came around the bend. It was okay. We were still married, still like each other. Um I was hoping you would record that conversation, but you know, no, that wasn't allowed. I was like, I asked her, I was like, can I record this for the podcast? She was like, no, you may you most certainly may not. I was like, great, cool. Cool, cool, cool, cool. This is our life, Joe.

[28:24] Joe Carroll: Yes, truly, truly. Truly. Oh my gosh. Umiz. Waitress and lay Miz. When I saw this matchup, I was like, what's gonna beat Le Miz?

[28:39] Dan Tracy: Well. Not Waitress.

[28:42] Joe Carroll: No. And that's that.

[28:46] Dan Tracy: Yeah, it's like it's like Waitress. You like we we could fight for Waitress for days, but then you put it up against Le Miz, and it's like, well, yeah, cool.

[28:54] Joe Carroll: Yeah. Yeah, Lamez, Le Miz, long, long term long time. How about uh what do people say?

[29:02] Dan Tracy: I was gonna say, interestingly enough, and this could be something to do with the conversation of what's recent and everything. Le Miz was at 266. Waitress was at 250. It was incredibly close.

[29:15] Joe Carroll: So yeah, there might be a generation in in there that doesn't, you know, doesn't have the love for Le Miz the way that it made us want to do musical theater. At least it made me want to do musicals.

[29:29] Dan Tracy: I I have this all figured out. It's Dan's castmates that voted.

[29:34] Joe Carroll: It's yes. It was the castle. It's all the Waitress people that started listening to this podcast, and they're like, oh, I was in Waitress and they voted for that.

[29:41] Dan Tracy: It could be Waitress fans. That could be it. But I could also see why fans of Waitress who listen to this podcast because I was in Waitress would not like Le Miz. And I could see why people who gravitate to a show like Waitress wouldn't gravitate to a show like Le Miz. A dark show about a bunch of guys in the only roles for women are very tragic.

[30:01] Joe Carroll: Yeah. And Jenna's tragic too, but it's also empowering. And that's what's cool about Waitress is that it like empowered this woman to not, you know, let Dr. Pomatter kiss her in the end. She ends up alone, but she ends up winning, you know?

[30:17] Dan Tracy: Yeah. And that's not the story. Le Miz is also like there are people that don't like it. You know, it's it's right. Like you said, it it's three hours, and it's there's a lot of lot of weird recitative and you know, but like, I don't know. You're the barricader to this!

[30:35] Joe Carroll: Yeah. You have any of you read choice?

[30:38] Dan Tracy: There he goes. There he goes. The ping. Hey! There's more of that great singing. Both of you.

[30:45] Joe Carroll: Hey, Matt, you don't get to say that to him. Don't you say that to him?

[30:50] Dan Tracy: I don't I don't get to say anything. I'm just shut up. I'm just chilling. Have any of you read the Victor Hugo book, Les Miserables?

[30:58] Carson Higgins: No, asshole. Have you?

[31:00] Dan Tracy: Oh god, I tried.

[31:01] Carson Higgins: So of course not, Danny. I tried once is that book. No, but uh when I read that book, I um it was okay, for real though. If you were to read some of that book, you would be like, who on earth thought that this would make a good musical? And then the people that made it were like, uh, we did, bitch, and it's the best musical ever.

[31:23] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It it is um we have a we have like a super duper old copy of it on our bookshelf that somebody gave Alex as a as a gift for her Broadway debut. Um, yeah, I haven't even opened it. I'm not I'm like, no, I'm good. I know every word of the musical, so like why would I I don't need to read the book. There's nothing I have to learn.

[31:44] Dan Tracy: How did how but I guess what I'm getting at easier? How do you take something that is such a classic of literature and make it better by making it a musical? Has anyone else done that with any other piece of literature?

[31:58] Carson Higgins: Uh wicked. Hello.

[32:00] Dan Tracy: Interesting.

[32:02] Carson Higgins: Oh, I forgot. You're a good idea. Classic Gregory McGuire novel.

[32:06] Dan Tracy: You know what's I I love this this point, Carson. This is an interesting thing because like if those classic books, like the some of the greatest books of all time, have turned out to be some really bad, some very mediocre at best, to bad musicals. Tale to Tales.

[32:21] Joe Carroll: Look at us. Look at us. We're looking at it. We're here with it.

[32:27] Dan Tracy: Right there. Like Pride and Prejudice has never really worked. Sense and Sensibility has never really worked. Count of Monte Cristo. Is Count of Monte Cristo a good show?

[32:36] Carson Higgins: I don't think Count of Monte Cristo is really good.

[32:42] Dan Tracy: Little Women.

[32:43] Carson Higgins: There you go.

[32:44] Dan Tracy: There you go. That's pretty good. Little Women was a hit. Little Women was a bust.

[32:48] Carson Higgins: Astonishing.

[32:50] Dan Tracy: Yep. Yep. There's that tone. There you go. That's the that's that award. Dan, who did you play in college?

[32:55] Carson Higgins: That's John Brooke.

[32:56] Dan Tracy: The little one.

[32:57] Carson Higgins: The Littlest Woman.

[33:00] Dan Tracy: No.

[33:02] Carson Higgins: The hunky man.

[33:03] Dan Tracy: Hunky Man. John Brooks.

[33:07] Carson Higgins: Yeah, I'm trying to think of the other. This is a it's a good point, though. I I think it is it. I think this conversation is is kind of proving my semi-moot point of just like how it's it's hard to take a piece of classic literature and make it any good as a musical at all, much less make it arguably more palatable, easier to digest, and more beloved.

[33:28] Dan Tracy: I would say though that um Jesus Christ Superstar's rendition of the Bible definitely makes it more palatable for me.

[33:37] Carson Higgins: I prefer God's fill, but good point.

[33:39] Dan Tracy: Sure. Um also for argument's sake, um Natasha Pierre in the Great Common of 1812 is a pretty good one.

[33:47] Carson Higgins: Yeah. I love that show. I'll die on the hill.

[33:51] Dan Tracy: But you know what? Way to only make it about 13.

[33:54] Carson Higgins: Yeah, I was gonna say that's only like two chapters of the book.

[33:58] Dan Tracy: Hey, there could have been like 19 sequels from what I know about War and Peace.

[34:01] Carson Higgins: Right. Yeah. Anyway. Very good. So Waitress won, right?

[34:08] Joe Carroll: Yeah, sorry, Waitress. That's uh so now what'll be fun in the next round is is Hamilton versus Le Miz, which I think is a matchup for the ages. So we'll talk about that when we get there. But as we get up to what's next? I don't know, but we gotta pick up the friggin' pace here because we're gonna next up.

[34:24] Dan Tracy: You said that last time. We do not. We're gonna do two rounds here, boys.

[34:28] Joe Carroll: Oh yeah. Okay. We got work to do. Sorry. All right, next up. Oh fiddler music man.

[34:34] Carson Higgins: God damn it.

[34:36] Joe Carroll: Sorry, Music Man.

[34:37] Dan Tracy: Oh, really? It's gotta be Fiddler for me.

[34:40] Joe Carroll: Oh yeah. I think it's gotta be Fiddler.

[34:42] Carson Higgins: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yep. Reluctantly.

[34:45] Joe Carroll: Yeah. Did you see the most recent revival? Did you guys get to see Fiddler?

[34:49] Dan Tracy: Danny Burstein.

[34:50] Carson Higgins: No.

[34:50] Joe Carroll: Oh, I wish.

[34:51] Dan Tracy: Yeah. I I I didn't catch the Yiddish one. I saw the Danny Burcy one.

[34:54] Carson Higgins: Yeah, yes, that's right. There was the one off Broadway that uh yeah, Danny Burstein, just the goat. The absolute GOAT.

[35:01] Dan Tracy: Yeah. I saw Zero Mostel on tour.

[35:04] Carson Higgins: Oh, what?

[35:05] Dan Tracy: What are you saying?

[35:07] Carson Higgins: 10.

[35:08] Dan Tracy: 2000.

[35:09] Carson Higgins: I saw Marlon Brando in Streetcar.

[35:11] Dan Tracy: What the fuck are you talking about?

[35:15] Carson Higgins: I'm serious, dude.

[35:17] Dan Tracy: He did like a farewell tour or something.

[35:21] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[35:22] Dan Tracy: That is crazy.

[35:22] Carson Higgins: That is really cool, man. That is actually like that's that's legendary.

[35:28] Dan Tracy: I'm pretty sure. Bro, I'm I'm so wrong. Zero Mastel died in 1977.

[35:41] Carson Higgins: We were 23 years later.

[35:42] Dan Tracy: Oh my god. I'm pretty sure my mom and my grandma saw uh saw it on tour and had the guy who played it in the movie.

[35:50] Carson Higgins: There you go.

[35:50] Dan Tracy: Topol played it, and they surprised my grandma. That's like that's who I saw.

[35:56] Carson Higgins: That's exactly who you saw, Dan. That's who I saw. Not Zero. But you know what? Zero would have been such a sick show. That's if you could what a clown. You could go see that on stage, man. You'd be a lucky duck.

[36:08] Dan Tracy: I love people. I saw Marlon Brando in Streetcar.

[36:13] Carson Higgins: He mumbled. I didn't like it.

[36:17] Dan Tracy: Oh man.

[36:18] Carson Higgins: He mumbled. I didn't like it.

[36:19] Dan Tracy: Oh my god. That's really funny. That's really good.

[36:23] Carson Higgins: Um I would have loved to see Alfred Molina as Tevye in 2004. Please, that would have been great. That Tony performance was was fantastic. And I remember watching that Tony performance started out on the street with a with an actual fiddler on the roof, and then he walked through Radio City and up onto the stage.

[36:38] Dan Tracy: Yeah. And I was like, whoa, how do they hashtag steady camp? But like it was that was a very cool uh Tony performance.

[36:47] Joe Carroll: So Fiddler's taking it.

[36:48] Dan Tracy: Oh, it just got the fan saying. Audience said audience said 187. Fiddler 123 Music Man.

[36:56] Joe Carroll: So not a sweep, but still Fiddler takes it home.

[36:59] Dan Tracy: Brilliant. Brilliant. People weren't as engaged in that category, I guess.

[37:04] Joe Carroll: Yeah. I like now. What else do we got coming up next?

[37:08] Dan Tracy: Coming up next is Carousel, Oklahoma.

[37:12] Joe Carroll: Oh.

[37:13] Carson Higgins: Hmm.

[37:15] Joe Carroll: Well, I don't know. Somebody else want to go first? I've gone first a couple times.

[37:21] Carson Higgins: I uh I will just say that Carousel is who took out my beloved My Fair Lady.

[37:27] Joe Carroll: His beloved.

[37:29] Carson Higgins: No, I would have picked Oklahoma anyway. I'm an Oklahoma man.

[37:32] Dan Tracy: Yeah. Yeah, I I think too that it's just that revolutionary that like say what you want about Oklahoma if you're not a fan of Kansas City or whatever. But like if it it it's it's it is it's the reason we're all here. So still Oklahoma for me too.

[37:56] Joe Carroll: Yeah. Yeah.

[37:57] Dan Tracy: Daniel.

[37:58] Carson Higgins: I I like like personally, I'd rather listen to Carousel.

[38:02] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[38:02] Carson Higgins: Agreed. But yeah, you know, I still vote for Oklahoma.

[38:06] Dan Tracy: So I would listen to Carousel. I would I would put on the cast album of any revival of Carousel over like specific songs that Damon Duano sang in this most recent revival. You know, like like he some of those, some of his takes and some of Rebecca Naomi Jones and there that was great, but for me, the album of Carousel, but the show itself, it's gotta be Oklahoma.

[38:31] Joe Carroll: Yeah. Yeah.

[38:32] Dan Tracy: Audience said Oklahoma at 196, Carousel at 130.

[38:37] Carson Higgins: Yes.

[38:38] Joe Carroll: We've we have not.

[38:41] Dan Tracy: Whoa. Okay, all right. Sorry. Sorry, it's more Carousel.

[38:45] Carson Higgins: Yeah, it's yeah. Listen, we're gonna take a break. We'll be back after this.

[38:49] Joe Carroll: West Side and Newsies.

[38:51] Dan Tracy: We're into the dance category.

[38:52] Joe Carroll: Yep. I mean, I think this one could go either way with the fans. I think that I think that we're gonna this may be the first time that we that we differentiate from the the fans here.

[39:08] Dan Tracy: Maybe they'll surprise us. Yeah, what are you thinking?

[39:11] Joe Carroll: You absolutely have to pick West Side Story.

[39:13] Dan Tracy: Yeah, it's just no question.

[39:14] Joe Carroll: No question. But like there are parts like if you read just the book of West Side Story versus just the book of Newsies, I might take Newsies. But we're talking about like you know, dialogue writing, which is does not a musical make. So, you know.

[39:36] Dan Tracy: Um it's a different beast, you know, potentially. I would, you know, I'd rather like read the scenes of of Newsies than read the scenes of West Side Story. You know, you know what it's like. But it's poetry, it's different. It's supposed to be like Shakespeare. It's a completely different thing.

[39:49] Joe Carroll: The fun thing for me is like neither of these musicals should exist if you think about it. It's like once upon a time, drum robins and whatever, they were like, We're gonna make Romeo and Juliet a gangster musical. And they were like, that's a terrible idea, don't do that. Or maybe they didn't say that. I don't know. But Newsies was that movie that flopped that every time Disney was like, what musical should we make? The fans overwhelmingly would be like, please for the love of God, put Newsies on stage. And so that the little engine that could element of what Newsies wound up being, and in my humblest of opinion, better than the movie.

[40:21] Dan Tracy: Yeah. Is that is that a hot take, or is that is that pretty much?

[40:25] Joe Carroll: No, I think they made it better. I think Alan Menken was like, give me a second chance here.

[40:29] Dan Tracy: Yeah. So I mean, you know, I I agree. I think West Side's story absolutely should win, especially in this matchup. But you gotta just give some love to the fact that Newsies exists at all.

[40:41] Joe Carroll: Yeah. Yeah. Very true. Yeah. And it was so much more successful than they thought it was gonna be.

[40:57] Dan Tracy: He was like, I thought that I was doing the gig at Paper Mill, and then they were supposed to license it regionally.

[41:04] Carson Higgins: Ah.

[41:05] Joe Carroll: Wow.

[41:05] Dan Tracy: But it was what, just too good and Jeremy Jordan was too high.

[41:08] Carson Higgins: And they were like, we gotta take it.

[41:09] Dan Tracy: Jeremy Jordan was that guy.

[41:11] Carson Higgins: Well, that's funny.

[41:12] Dan Tracy: Double builds.

[41:13] Carson Higgins: It's funny about that.

[41:15] Dan Tracy: I remember talking to my agent about this. That when they did it at Paper Mill, that like Jeremy Jordan had done some stuff. You know, he wasn't unknown in the Broadway community at that point.

[41:27] Carson Higgins: Was that before Bonnie and Clyde?

[41:29] Dan Tracy: That was after Bonnie and Clyde.

[41:31] Carson Higgins: After Bonnie Clyde.

[41:33] Dan Tracy: And they but at the end, there's those big towers on stage that have like been on stage the whole time. For anybody that hasn't seen it, but I'm sure you've seen graphics of it or whatever, that there's big towers on stage, and they would at the curtain call they parted like the Red Sea, and like there's this big swell in the music, and it's like, you know, Santa Big big huge move of the set pieces.

[41:57] Carson Higgins: And my agent was like, Is this guy like Jesus? Like, why is why are they giving him this massive star bow?

[42:06] Dan Tracy: Because that's Jack Kelly, bro.

[42:08] Carson Higgins: Yeah, exactly.

[42:09] Dan Tracy: And like that's the answer. The answer is because it's Jack Kelly, bro.

[42:13] Carson Higgins: Because he freed all the paper boys.

[42:18] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[42:19] Carson Higgins: Oh God, that's funny.

[42:20] Dan Tracy: Yeah. So anyway, I'm with you though. I love that that take, Carson. Like the fact that news exists at all.

[42:26] Carson Higgins: West Side's gotta take it, though.

[42:28] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[42:28] Carson Higgins: Fans agree.

[42:29] Joe Carroll: F fans agreed.

[42:31] Carson Higgins: They uh they said Westside at 154, Newzies at 113.

[42:36] Dan Tracy: Interesting.

[42:37] Carson Higgins: Okay. So there's so there was love for Westside, which was our fans. Love our fans.

[42:42] Dan Tracy: And for the uh for the final dance one, we got Chorus Line and Billy Elliott.

[42:48] Carson Higgins: Jesus Christ.

[42:49] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[42:50] Carson Higgins: Like, Chorus Line has problems.

[42:55] Joe Carroll: But I do not like Chorus Line.

[42:59] Carson Higgins: Really?

[43:00] Joe Carroll: Really?

[43:01] Carson Higgins: Both of you are like, no to Chorus Line.

[43:04] Joe Carroll: No, no. Joe likes it.

[43:05] Joe Carroll: I'm a big Chorus Line fan. Chorus Line was the show that I did Chorus Line in high school.

[43:09] Carson Higgins: And who were you?

[43:10] Joe Carroll: I was Al.

[43:12] Joe Carroll: I was Al.

[43:13] Carson Higgins: Alright. Great.

[43:14] Joe Carroll: And uh I we did a community theater. I was 16, and the woman I was married to was like 30.

[43:19] Carson Higgins: Which was like classic classic community theater.

[43:22] Joe Carroll: Classic community theater. And uh but it was like the show that made that I was like, oh, this is the real deal. Like we had a bunch of people who were getting their BFAs. We had a bunch of people who had actually like gone to New York and moved back and and dancers, people who had one of the art the choreographer had done the one of the national tours. It was a really professional and really awesome production. And I was like, oh, this is what being a professional actor is like. This is I want I want to do this. I want to drive to the theater at night. And we did with like a long run. We did like six weeks of shows. Um, it was very cool. I'm a I'm a Chorus Line fan, but it does have problems, and I hope that they fix them because the book is problematic, some of the structure is problematic, but like, you know, it's just dated, you know, it's just like clearly from the 70s.

[44:06] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[44:06] Joe Carroll: Um it's dated, and it's like absolutely not my favorite form of storytelling.

[44:13] Carson Higgins: Mm-hmm.

[44:14] Joe Carroll: Like listening to like actors emote and force these emotional performances is just like not my favorite thing in the world.

[44:24] Carson Higgins: So that's just a personal take.

[44:26] Dan Tracy: Have you seen it on stage? Did you see it on stage?

[44:29] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[44:29] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[44:30] Joe Carroll: I think like I saw that rev that that City Center production that Max Clayton and Robin Herter were in.

[44:35] Carson Higgins: And um that one, because they only did it for a weekend.

[44:35] Joe Carroll: I think Chorus Line can get really tired because it's an incredibly physical show. So sometimes you can go see it and you're like, gosh, why didn't I connect to this? It's because everybody up there is so freaking tired and doing eight shows a week for years on end.

[44:51] Carson Higgins: That was so electric because they did five shows or something. There was no nobody was tired. Everybody was given a thousand dollars.

[44:58] Joe Carroll: Well, and it's just it's City Center, so it's it's best of the best.

[45:00] Carson Higgins: Right.

[45:01] Joe Carroll: I mean, right.

[45:01] Carson Higgins: City Center shows are like you get casts that you couldn't even get for a Broadway revival.

[45:05] Joe Carroll: Right.

[45:05] Carson Higgins: Yeah, right, right.

[45:06] Joe Carroll: You know, because the time commitment's so easy to work with, yeah.

[45:09] Carson Higgins: Yeah, two weeks or whatever.

[45:10] Joe Carroll: I saw Stephen Pasquale in Wild Party.

[45:12] Carson Higgins: That should be.

[45:12] Joe Carroll: Dude, me too, and it was mind boggling. We were sitting there at the same time with Brandon Victor Dixon playing, oh God.

[45:19] Carson Higgins: Oh, I still have that voice memo.

[45:21] Joe Carroll: Why isn't the Wild Party in this tournament?

[45:23] Carson Higgins: You're right.

[45:23] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[45:24] Carson Higgins: Oh man. Next year we got it, we'll have a whole different lineup of shows. Brandon Victor Dixon's version of every single song in that show was so good, I can't even explain it.

[45:33] Joe Carroll: Me neither. Man. Let's I hope there's some bootlegs out there. I just saw one of those Broadway accounts, Broadway Instagram accounts, post Steve Pasquale's of um uh Let Me Drown from that production where like somebody took a bootleg of it and dude sounds perfect because I have a boot I have a voice memo of his what is it about her for sure on my phone.

[45:53] Carson Higgins: That's illegal so it was sent to him, Joe.

[45:57] Joe Carroll: I haven't seen recording one Joe.

[46:01] Carson Higgins: It was airdrop to him.

[46:03] Joe Carroll: You've never done anything illegal, Joe.

[46:05] Carson Higgins: He was like, who airdropped this very illegal pirated recording to me?

[46:10] Joe Carroll: Jesus.

[46:10] Carson Higgins: I'll keep it.

[46:13] Joe Carroll: Yeah, it's it's it's evidence for later on.

[46:15] Carson Higgins: How do you think I booked Kinky Boots?

[46:17] Joe Carroll: He's been working the Broadway police department.

[46:20] Carson Higgins: That's you've got evidence. That's gonna be I'll release this bootleg. I'm gonna drop it. That's gonna be my net my next job when Broadway comes back. I'm just gonna be a Broadway police officer. I'm gonna walk through this the aisles as people and just like make sure people aren't recording.

[46:38] Joe Carroll: No, I literally know somebody whose job it was uh for Hamilton producers was to cease and desist bootlegs of Hamilton.

[46:46] Carson Higgins: Wow.

[46:46] Joe Carroll: Wow. What a great one. Just like try and find them and like write them letters and blah blah blah.

[46:52] Carson Higgins: So funny.

[46:52] Joe Carroll: Holy cow.

[46:53] Carson Higgins: Um, so what are we talking about?

[46:58] Joe Carroll: Audience votes, Chorus Line 211, Billy Elliott 50.

[47:03] Carson Higgins: Billy Elliott.

[47:04] Joe Carroll: Oh my god.

[47:07] Carson Higgins: Knocked.

[47:07] Joe Carroll: You haven't seen Billy Elliott.

[47:09] Carson Higgins: That is that is ridiculous.

[47:12] Joe Carroll: There's somebody else in the there's somebody else in the DMs this week that was like that was like, I don't care about somebody like went off my Billy Elliott.

[47:12] Carson Higgins: I don't care about his brother. I don't care about his stupid dad. I don't, you know, electricity's a stupid song. Boxing hurts.

[47:29] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[47:30] Carson Higgins: I was like, somebody's got some really strong opinions about about Billy Elliott.

[47:34] Joe Carroll: Well, there was a show that somebody wanted us to include that wasn't Billy Elliott. I forget what it was.

[47:37] Carson Higgins: Rocky Roman.

[47:40] Joe Carroll: Rock dance show.

[47:41] Carson Higgins: Uh I'm trying to think. Was it a dance show?

[47:46] Joe Carroll: Cats.

[47:48] Carson Higgins: Oh no, you guys like ruined Cats, right?

[47:50] Joe Carroll: It didn't win any Cats.

[47:52] Carson Higgins: Yeah, Cats. We didn't uh it got shut out immediately.

[47:54] Joe Carroll: Oh, I was the asshole listening to the episode last week, like, oh, it's definitely Cats, right? And then you guys were like, definitely Chorus Line, and I was like, cool.

[48:04] Carson Higgins: But no, so Chorus Line takes it. So right now we have eight final. That's the that's the elite eight.

[48:10] Joe Carroll: That's probably that. That is the elite eight.

[48:13] Carson Higgins: Buckle up. Let's do it.

[48:14] Dan Tracy: Absolutely. We got another few minutes left here.

[48:17] Carson Higgins: Here we go. Here we go.

[48:19] Dan Tracy: So Rent versus Spring Awakening. And there's no audience vote on any of this. So this is just now, this is where the good stuff happens.

[48:29] Carson Higgins: Yeah, this is where we can just yell at each other.

[48:31] Joe Carroll: This is battle royale.

[48:32] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[48:32] Dan Tracy: Oh man, and we'll uh and then and then next week we'll have everybody vote on the final four.

[48:37] Joe Carroll: Exactly.

[48:38] Carson Higgins: Um vote on the yeah, vote on the final four to pick a winner.

[48:44] Dan Tracy: Exactly. Um, so all right. Rent and Spring Awakening. Fire away.

[48:52] Carson Higgins: I've I've got 525,600 reasons why it isn't Spring Awakening.

[49:00] Joe Carroll: Yeah, you know, yeah, very well done.

[49:03] Carson Higgins: Yeah. I I think there's a lot of things wrong with Rent.

[49:08] Joe Carroll: Well, it didn't. But there's also a lot of rewrites, right? It didn't even get through its preview period because Jonathan Larson passed away. So it didn't even get to have its notes.

[49:17] Carson Higgins: That is an unnoted show. You're seeing what someone would have definitely changed, and it's still as good as it is.

[49:26] Joe Carroll: Damn. That's a hot take.

[49:27] Carson Higgins: That's a really good thing.

[49:28] Joe Carroll: That's a really good take. Um notes were implemented into that show.

[49:34] Carson Higgins: I also draft.

[49:37] Joe Carroll: Which that's insane. That's like that's that's insane.

[49:41] Carson Higgins: Spring Awakening is a hundred and fifty-year-old play that had songs written for it.

[49:45] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[49:48] Carson Higgins: But I have no opinion about this one.

[49:51] Joe Carroll: I I think we just gotta go with our with our special guest. I mean, Dan, what do you think?

[49:55] Dan Tracy: Because I'm I'm Rent.

[49:57] Joe Carroll: I think it has it has.

[49:59] Dan Tracy: No, I think I think I'm Rent all the way too. I think it has to. I mean, there's things there's things wrong with Rent.

[50:03] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[50:03] Dan Tracy: But there's also way more things wrong with Spring Awakening.

[50:07] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[50:08] Dan Tracy: You know, namely being like no like conceivable ending. No, like no element of this idea of like the lack of catharsis that we talked about with with Michael Arden, where he was like, I had to fix the ending somehow and make some statement about what the hell just happened.

[50:25] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[50:26] Dan Tracy: Rent gets that.

[50:27] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[50:28] Dan Tracy: And you know, not that everything needs to be tied up in a bow, but um that's just one of the things I can point to.

[50:35] Joe Carroll: Do you guys know why Mimi lives at the end?

[50:38] Carson Higgins: No, uh no.

[50:40] Dan Tracy: Because she doesn't in in La Bohème, right? The character that Mimi's based on does not survive.

[50:46] Carson Higgins: But do you know why Mimi lives in Rent?

[50:48] Joe Carroll: No.

[50:49] Carson Higgins: No. Because everybody was dying for real outside.

[50:52] Joe Carroll: Right.

[50:52] Carson Higgins: And in here, Jonathan wanted to make sure that it wasn't like the hat where we got to have the ending we wanted, not the ending we were stuck with.

[51:03] Joe Carroll: Wow.

[51:04] Carson Higgins: That's awesome.

[51:05] Dan Tracy: That's awesome.

[51:07] Carson Higgins: Rent, baby.

[51:08] Dan Tracy: Rent.

[51:09] Carson Higgins: Outstanding.

[51:10] Dan Tracy: Rent it is.

[51:11] Carson Higgins: Cool.

[51:13] Dan Tracy: Rents our first team in the final four.

[51:15] Carson Higgins: Outstanding.

[51:16] Dan Tracy: That's right. Get it.

[51:17] Carson Higgins: Alright, so net again. So now like the the battle of the epics.

[51:22] Dan Tracy: Um.

[51:23] Carson Higgins: God, Hamilton versus Les Mis.

[51:26] Dan Tracy: This is a this is a this is like uh matchup in the Broadway softball league, Dan.

[51:32] Carson Higgins: Um this oh god, I don't I don't freaking know.

[51:39] Joe Carroll: Can I wait real quick?

[51:41] Carson Higgins: Yeah, good real quick.

[51:42] Joe Carroll: Just before you before it becomes all bloodbath, could just close your eyes and imagine Ramin singing George Washington.

[51:51] Carson Higgins: Oh.

[51:53] Joe Carroll: I don't know if I want it.

[51:55] Carson Higgins: But just why don't you should not be in Hamilton, but if he's gonna be in it, he should be George Washington.

[52:01] Joe Carroll: And then you get to he wouldn't do it right or well, but I just like the idea.

[52:09] Carson Higgins: I was like, I'd rather see I'd rather for this game play like let's Chris Jackson as Jean Valjean, you know.

[52:15] Joe Carroll: Oh no, man, or Javert. He'd be a Javert, probably.

[52:18] Carson Higgins: Oh wait, no, dude, okay. Chris Jackson as as Valjean and and uh Leslie Odom as Javert, and we're having the best night of theater ever, and it's gonna be great.

[52:30] Joe Carroll: Like, uh yeah, I couldn't. I I The wrong vocal parts all over the place.

[52:34] Carson Higgins: These fucking guys.

[52:36] Joe Carroll: You know what?

[52:38] Carson Higgins: Jesus.

[52:39] Joe Carroll: I'm not a casting director.

[52:43] Carson Higgins: Neither am I. I just like Ramin Karimloo.

[52:46] Joe Carroll: I don't know how to say his last name. I just like hearing him sing.

[52:49] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[52:50] Joe Carroll: I do too.

[52:51] Carson Higgins: I do too.

[52:52] Dan Tracy: Um all right. Let's have a serious conversation about this. Let's pretend like we actually aren't just big dorky fans of musicals, and we actually had something intelligent to say about showing.

[53:02] Carson Higgins: I got something intelligent to say that's not totally intelligent at all. I enjoyed my classic. I I had a better night in the theater watching Hamilton than I did the first time I saw Les Mis.

[53:17] Joe Carroll: Now that has to do with a lot of outside factors, I think, because I saw Hamilton at the public, and it was an absolute rock concert of a thing that you had never I'd never seen before. Anything even remotely like that.

[53:33] Carson Higgins: Um so that was just a personal experience, you know.

[53:37] Joe Carroll: Um but I don't see how Hamilton can't win this.

[53:43] Carson Higgins: I mean, there is no Hamilton without Les Mis. Lin Manuel Miranda came over when Alex was in Les Mis, Lin Manuel Miranda came over to Les Mis and did the the thing that you just sang, Dan earlier. The you at the barricade listen to this, he came over and did it while they were like he came over and just stood at the backstage mic and was and did you at the barricade listen to this, no one's coming to help you fight. You know, he's he's obsessed with it. He had a live feed of Les Mis supposedly.

[54:09] Joe Carroll: Wait, wait, I remember seeing that.

[54:17] Carson Higgins: Yeah, he had he had he supposedly had a live feed of of the the show camera of Les Mis when it was being played when it was next door, uh piped into his dressing room at Hamilton.

[54:28] Carson Higgins: Like, dude's obsessed with him is obsessed.

[54:33] Dan Tracy: So I mean if Lynn was voting, he'd probably be like Le Miz, Le Miz, because he's just such a humble guy.

[54:38] Joe Carroll: Right.

[54:39] Dan Tracy: But I think I'm also on I think Hamilton.

[54:43] Carson Higgins: It's it is it's it's a reluctant yeah because I love Le Miz and it's so good, but I think I think I'm just really solidifying for myself how really truly good Hamilton is.

[54:58] Dan Tracy: Here's here's my take.

[54:59] Carson Higgins: Yep, yeah.

[55:00] Dan Tracy: All right, Dan.

[55:01] Carson Higgins: If Broadway isn't careful, it could turn into what opera is in America.

[55:09] Dan Tracy: Something that people don't see unless you're a millionaire or old.

[55:13] Carson Higgins: Or something that is basically unaccessible unless you have some kind of elitist taste.

[55:19] Dan Tracy: And our best chance at fighting that in decades has been Hamilton.

[55:27] Carson Higgins: And that is that's not to that's not to say that it has eradicated the problem because it's actually made the problem worse.

[55:35] Dan Tracy: Right.

[55:35] Carson Higgins: Right, right.

[55:36] Dan Tracy: Because $900 tickets and stuff.

[55:37] Carson Higgins: Exactly.

[55:38] Dan Tracy: Because now it's like it's some kind of token of social status that you've seen Hamilton, and it's exploiting, arguably exploiting, you know, black workers for the uh support of of white investors.

[55:52] Carson Higgins: It's it's kind of it it had there's a lot of issues, you know, and you should all take a second to read Dan Bill Navis's piece, medium article about uh his experience working with Hamilton as a black actor, but um, you know, that to say, if we are to break through and actually have a a new generation of people who love musicals, Hamilton's our best choice.

[56:16] Dan Tracy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[56:19] Carson Higgins: Maybe then they'll go see what's you know, Sing Street.

[56:23] Dan Tracy: Right.

[56:23] Carson Higgins: Maybe then they'll go see true um company, and maybe then they'll those are bad examples, but you know, I'm trying to think of maybe then they'll go see Girl from North Country because they like Bob Dylan, and you know what I mean?

[56:34] Dan Tracy: Like, yeah, that's how we can foster a new generation, and and that's important.

[56:39] Joe Carroll: Couldn't agree more.

[56:41] Dan Tracy: All right, Hamilton.

[56:42] Carson Higgins: Just I'm almost reluctant.

[56:44] Dan Tracy: Like, you know, here we go.

[56:45] Carson Higgins: It's of course it's it's like Villanova or something.

[56:48] Dan Tracy: It's like the it's the Gonzaga Duke basketball basketball, you know, right.

[56:53] Joe Carroll: Of this bracket.

[56:54] Dan Tracy: But you know what?

[56:55] Carson Higgins: Sorry, that's a sports reference.

[56:56] Dan Tracy: Well, this is a March Madness.

[57:00] Carson Higgins: Um, all right.

[57:01] Dan Tracy: I don't think I was gonna say the basketball fans that are not musical theater fans, like I know what Gonzaga is, Joe.

[57:08] Joe Carroll: I'm just confused about this whole carousel thing.

[57:18] Dan Tracy: Now we got golden age.

[57:20] Carson Higgins: Up in the golden Fiddler and Oklahoma, Fiddler and Oklahoma, Fiddler versus Oklahoma.

[57:27] Dan Tracy: Man, I got a clear choice in my head.

[57:30] Carson Higgins: It just like rang out.

[57:32] Dan Tracy: Well, go well go ahead, Matt.

[57:34] Carson Higgins: You can speak.

[57:36] Dan Tracy: Oh.

[57:37] Carson Higgins: Let them eat case Christ.

[57:40] Dan Tracy: One hour and ten minutes in, and I can't.

[57:42] Carson Higgins: You can speak now.

[57:44] Dan Tracy: Oh, that other time was really pissing me off, but I think this will do.

[57:48] Carson Higgins: Um, I don't know.

[57:49] Carson Higgins: For me, for me, it's gotta be Fiddler.

[57:50] Carson Higgins: I just I think there's something so so magic about that story and that music.

[57:55] Carson Higgins: It's uh it's a big show, loved in my family, so I've I've loved it for a long time.

[57:59] Carson Higgins: And I don't know, there's something about Oklahoma that I've just never gelled with.

[58:04] Carson Higgins: I get the I get the history.

[58:05] Carson Higgins: I get why it's important.

[58:07] Carson Higgins: But like gimme Tevya any day of the week, shaking those big beautiful arms, and I'm and I'm set.

[58:14] Dan Tracy: Yeah, just like all day long.

[58:16] Carson Higgins: Yep.

[58:17] Joe Carroll: Yep.

[58:18] Carson Higgins: And that's the last time I'll speak for the rest of 2021.

[58:20] Dan Tracy: Thank you so much.

[58:21] Joe Carroll: No, quiet down.

[58:23] Dan Tracy: No.

[58:24] Joe Carroll: I do need to I need to dig out the pictures of Joe Carroll as Tevia at uh East East Grand Epitol, circa 2000, circa 2006.

[58:33] Dan Tracy: I'll find the pictures of Dan Tracy as Perchick.

[58:36] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[58:37] Dan Tracy: Community of players and province.

[58:39] Carson Higgins: Yeah, hashtag blue eyes, blue eyes over here, but both of us.

[58:42] Carson Higgins: Just like yikes.

[58:45] Dan Tracy: No, I I mean I was Russian.

[58:46] Carson Higgins: So yeah, perch.

[58:48] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[58:49] Carson Higgins: You're you're talking to the I was the whiz in the whiz.

[58:52] Dan Tracy: So, you know, anything could happen.

[58:56] Carson Higgins: Wow.

[58:56] Dan Tracy: What a time.

[58:57] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[58:58] Dan Tracy: Yeah, yeah.

[58:59] Carson Higgins: Um, I think for me it's it's it's gotta be Fiddler too.

[59:03] Dan Tracy: Um more for more for the we talked about last week, the structure.

[59:08] Carson Higgins: Um, you know, the opening of In the Heights is tradition.

[59:14] Carson Higgins: It is the exact same idea.

[59:16] Dan Tracy: So like we yes, Oklahoma did a lot.

[59:20] Carson Higgins: Fiddler did more, I would argue.

[59:23] Dan Tracy: And it's it's really funny.

[59:26] Carson Higgins: It's that perfect structural, like everything is dark and terrible, and it's literally about the programs, and there it's funnier.

[59:33] Dan Tracy: It's so funny.

[59:34] Carson Higgins: It's really a funny show when done well.

[59:37] Dan Tracy: There's a you know, it's like um, and I think endlessly timely, uh, timeless.

[59:43] Carson Higgins: Uh yeah, Fiddler's got my vote.

[59:45] Dan Tracy: Yep, me too.

[59:46] Joe Carroll: Same.

[59:47] Carson Higgins: Dig it.

[59:48] Dan Tracy: All right.

[59:48] Carson Higgins: Okay.

[59:49] Dan Tracy: So it's out.

[59:51] Carson Higgins: All right.

[59:52] Dan Tracy: Oklahoma's out.

[59:53] Carson Higgins: Final before the uh the final four decided.

[59:55] Dan Tracy: We got West Side Story versus chorus line.

[59:58] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[1:00:01] Dan Tracy: That one's kind of easy.

[1:00:04] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[1:00:06] Dan Tracy: You know, we we've duked it out, but it's just, I mean, West Side without question.

[1:00:06] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[1:00:06] Joe Carroll: Without question.

[1:00:12] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[1:00:12] Dan Tracy: Yep.

[1:00:13] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[1:00:13] Dan Tracy: In fact, like, I'm disappointed in that pairing.

[1:00:15] Carson Higgins: You know.

[1:00:16] Dan Tracy: Like I expected more from how hard that's that category could have been.

[1:00:20] Carson Higgins: You know what's funny?

[1:00:21] Dan Tracy: This just never would have happened because it didn't, but just I'm looking at this bracket, and if it had been cats versus West Side story, you guys, I would have voted for cats.

[1:00:31] Carson Higgins: What?

[1:00:32] Dan Tracy: What do you like about cats?

[1:00:33] Carson Higgins: Okay.

[1:00:34] Dan Tracy: Dude.

[1:00:34] Carson Higgins: Can somebody mute his microphone, please?

[1:00:36] Dan Tracy: Get the hell out of this.

[1:00:37] Carson Higgins: Everyone listening to this, don't let them mute me.

[1:00:39] Dan Tracy: Am I still here?

[1:00:40] Carson Higgins: Okay, because hey, look at listen.

[1:00:42] Carson Higgins: The people that are on my team, I don't have to convince them they know.

[1:00:46] Carson Higgins: We, the people who like cats, know that there's nothing we can do to explain to you why we like it.

[1:00:52] Carson Higgins: We just would see it eight times a week and just, you know, watch the VHS on Monday.

[1:00:58] Dan Tracy: I know what it is.

[1:01:00] Carson Higgins: Yeah, you think it's the Leotards, but it's not.

[1:01:04] Dan Tracy: Were you gonna say Leotards Dan?

[1:01:06] Carson Higgins: I was.

[1:01:06] Dan Tracy: Yeah, well, I'm a grown-up and I appreciate dance and feline movement from a human.

[1:01:13] Carson Higgins: Oh my god.

[1:01:14] Dan Tracy: That's I appreciate that's it.

[1:01:16] Carson Higgins: Now that we know your uh internet search tends to be a little bit more than a little bit.

[1:01:19] Dan Tracy: No, no, no, no.

[1:01:20] Carson Higgins: See, you're you're taking this, you're taking this all wrong.

[1:01:24] Carson Higgins: There, you okay, so in hair literally left the chat.

[1:01:27] Dan Tracy: He said, I can't do it any longer.

[1:01:29] Carson Higgins: I had to change room as once cat was brought so once cats is brought up.

[1:01:32] Dan Tracy: Well, you know what?

[1:01:33] Carson Higgins: I'm not talking about the movie.

[1:01:34] Carson Higgins: I'm talking about just cats in general.

[1:01:36] Carson Higgins: I just like it.

[1:01:37] Dan Tracy: All right.

[1:01:38] Carson Higgins: And there's and there's people listening right now.

[1:01:40] Carson Higgins: There's people driving right now, just nodding along, going, yep, he's right.

[1:01:43] Carson Higgins: We don't have to explain ourselves.

[1:01:44] Dan Tracy: I love cats, and everyone else can just go listen to the cats.

[1:01:48] Carson Higgins: Yeah, I don't like West Side story.

[1:01:49] Carson Higgins: It's too dark.

[1:01:51] Dan Tracy: I like cats because it makes me feel good.

[1:01:54] Carson Higgins: But here's the side end out.

[1:01:55] Dan Tracy: No, here's here one other thing, and I'll shut up because it's not even in this bracket.

[1:02:00] Carson Higgins: But uh I I like watching cats.

[1:02:03] Carson Higgins: I don't necessarily like sitting around and listening to cats.

[1:02:06] Carson Higgins: It's not that kind of show.

[1:02:07] Dan Tracy: I want to watch it.

[1:02:11] Carson Higgins: You know what that reminds me of?

[1:02:12] Dan Tracy: I'm so pumped.

[1:02:13] Carson Higgins: You just played.

[1:02:15] Carson Higgins: The drone, the ascending drones in Dunkirk.

[1:02:19] Dan Tracy: That's what that song reminds me of.

[1:02:21] Carson Higgins: Dude.

[1:02:21] Dan Tracy: Wow.

[1:02:23] Carson Higgins: Do you bite on your phone?

[1:02:25] Dan Tracy: I don't even throw those in the words.

[1:02:26] Carson Higgins: I don't know the words.

[1:02:27] Dan Tracy: I feel like that's because the words don't make any sense.

[1:02:30] Carson Higgins: But it's like why people like ABBA, man.

[1:02:32] Dan Tracy: It doesn't matter.

[1:02:33] Carson Higgins: Like, we don't even speak English.

[1:02:35] Dan Tracy: We just love ABBA.

[1:02:37] Carson Higgins: ABBA does slap.

[1:02:38] Dan Tracy: That's true.

[1:02:39] Carson Higgins: This this just took a turn.

[1:02:41] Dan Tracy: I derailed it.

[1:02:42] Carson Higgins: I love it, but I love everything about it.

[1:02:44] Dan Tracy: This is what we want.

[1:02:45] Carson Higgins: Go listen to cats, I guess.

[1:02:46] Dan Tracy: I won't.

[1:02:47] Carson Higgins: No, it's fine.

[1:02:48] Dan Tracy: Definitely don't.

[1:02:49] Carson Higgins: You know what?

[1:02:49] Carson Higgins: Will you just send me a CD of this?

[1:02:51] Dan Tracy: Because I know it's getting cut from the show.

[1:02:52] Carson Higgins: No, it's not.

[1:02:54] Dan Tracy: It's not.

[1:02:54] Carson Higgins: I want to listen to my own.

[1:02:57] Dan Tracy: Make them sit through this.

[1:02:58] Carson Higgins: You're gonna sit through this again.

[1:02:59] Dan Tracy: You're gonna listen to yourself back and be like, I was wrong.

[1:03:02] Carson Higgins: I've never been more right.

[1:03:05] Dan Tracy: Oh my god.

[1:03:07] Carson Higgins: Well, good thing we had no fun today, guys.

[1:03:09] Dan Tracy: Yeah, what's the final four look like?

[1:03:12] Carson Higgins: Westside story.

[1:03:12] Dan Tracy: Yeah, it's West Side.

[1:03:13] Carson Higgins: Yeah, Westside.

[1:03:14] Dan Tracy: Well, the final four we got Rent Hamilton Fiddler Westside.

[1:03:18] Carson Higgins: It's a good matchup.

[1:03:20] Dan Tracy: It's good real.

[1:03:21] Carson Higgins: Pretty solid.

[1:03:22] Dan Tracy: Ladies and gentlemen of Podcast Land, weigh in.

[1:03:25] Carson Higgins: Let us know your thoughts.

[1:03:27] Dan Tracy: We'll be back next week to duke it out and pick a winner.

[1:03:31] Carson Higgins: Um, and it will not be cats, but uh but Joe, it might be Hamilton, so get ready.

[1:03:41] Joe Carroll: No, I know.

[1:03:41] Carson Higgins: Which would just like I'm thinking about it already.

[1:03:44] Dan Tracy: We can't call Hamilton the greatest musical of all time.

[1:03:47] Carson Higgins: No, it's not even the musical of March.

[1:03:49] Dan Tracy: It's not even it's not even like that.

[1:03:52] Carson Higgins: It's the best musical of this March.

[1:03:54] Dan Tracy: I love that.

[1:03:54] Carson Higgins: That makes me feel better, Carson.

[1:03:55] Dan Tracy: It's just a tournament.

[1:03:57] Carson Higgins: It's a tournament, it's madness.

[1:03:59] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[1:03:59] Carson Higgins: And it's about oh, this is interesting though, because if we were to replay this every year, it's about the popularity of shows at that time.

[1:04:06] Dan Tracy: Just gonna be really dependent on what's been revived and what people are listening to, what people's tastes are, how things age, right?

[1:04:13] Carson Higgins: I think it could be it could show you.

[1:04:15] Dan Tracy: You had one Sonnheim show in this whole tournament.

[1:04:18] Carson Higgins: So true.

[1:04:18] Dan Tracy: There is so much to happen next March.

[1:04:21] Carson Higgins: You're right.

[1:04:22] Dan Tracy: So don't even.

[1:04:23] Carson Higgins: It's a it's it Hamilton very well may win this tournament.

[1:04:27] Dan Tracy: But you know what?

[1:04:28] Carson Higgins: So may Gonzaga, baby.

[1:04:30] Dan Tracy: That's right.

[1:04:31] Carson Higgins: Go blue.

[1:04:32] Dan Tracy: That's uh we can't end with a go blue.

[1:04:35] Carson Higgins: Somebody else says, Michigan in the yeah, we're in the sweet 16.

[1:04:39] Dan Tracy: They are okay, good.

[1:04:41] Carson Higgins: Well, just real quick, I just would love to say, as a fan of this show, I'm so tickled that you had me to come play with you guys for this March Madness thing.

[1:04:49] Carson Higgins: I had so much fun listening last week.

[1:04:51] Carson Higgins: I know next week's gonna be a bonkers, chaotic.

[1:04:54] Carson Higgins: I I have no idea who's gonna win, but uh, I'm just so glad that you guys, A, are still doing this show.

[1:05:00] Carson Higgins: You've made the pandemic that much more uh palatable for my my week.

[1:05:05] Carson Higgins: Um, and I just love love the heck out of both of you.

[1:05:08] Carson Higgins: I love the addition of Matt.

[1:05:10] Carson Higgins: He's crushing it with the social media.

[1:05:13] Carson Higgins: I always every day I open my Instagram.

[1:05:15] Carson Higgins: I'm like, oh, look at that, guys.

[1:05:16] Carson Higgins: Like musicals.

[1:05:17] Carson Higgins: Uh, but yeah, I I'm just big fan over here and love you guys to pieces, and can't thank you enough for having me.

[1:05:23] Dan Tracy: Thank you, Carson.

[1:05:24] Carson Higgins: You're one of the best humans on this planet earth.

[1:05:28] Dan Tracy: Big things in the works for Mr. Carson Higgins in the future.

[1:05:33] Carson Higgins: He's got a some big stuff planned.

[1:05:35] Dan Tracy: Go take a listen to his podcast and say that you knew him when because this this man's gonna be a big ol' story or in the score.

[1:05:43] Carson Higgins: That's right, friends.

[1:05:44] Dan Tracy: Also, yeah, you know, whatever.

[1:05:46] Carson Higgins: Joe's been booking too, so like, yeah, he's gonna be on TV again.

[1:05:49] Dan Tracy: Whatever.

[1:05:50] Carson Higgins: Good for him.

[1:05:51] Dan Tracy: I'm not jealous at all.

[1:05:52] Carson Higgins: I'm not the jealous boyfriend.

[1:05:54] Dan Tracy: It's fine.

[1:05:54] Carson Higgins: Dan, what did you misquote me about on Gavin Creel's episode?

[1:05:59] Dan Tracy: Uh you you get 100% of the jobs you're supposed to get.

[1:06:05] Carson Higgins: Oh my god.

[1:06:07] Dan Tracy: Yes, that it is.

[1:06:08] Carson Higgins: Is that was that correct?

[1:06:09] Dan Tracy: What he just said?

[1:06:11] Carson Higgins: No, he said it weird, but it's the right idea.

[1:06:14] Dan Tracy: What's the freaking quote?

[1:06:15] Carson Higgins: It's you you book all the jobs you're gonna book.

[1:06:18] Dan Tracy: Yeah, okay.

[1:06:19] Carson Higgins: Oh, there we go.

[1:06:20] Dan Tracy: That's nice.

[1:06:21] Carson Higgins: It's clean, it's quick.

[1:06:22] Dan Tracy: Yeah, you book all the jobs you're gonna book, and all the rest of them are just opportunities for you to love up on your friend for kicking much ass.

[1:06:30] Joe Carroll: Joe, proud of you.

[1:06:31] Carson Higgins: Thanks, Carson.

[1:06:32] Dan Tracy: Love you, Dan.

[1:06:33] Carson Higgins: Yeah, go get another one, and then I'm and then this is what you really good.

[1:06:40] Dan Tracy: No, Joe.

[1:06:41] Carson Higgins: This is how you get him.

[1:06:42] Carson Higgins: Joe, this is how you get him.

[1:06:43] Carson Higgins: You find out what his very favorite show is, and then you become a series regular on it and really ruin his day.

[1:06:51] Dan Tracy: If Joe is a series regular on succession this season, I'm gonna leave tomorrow.

[1:06:56] Carson Higgins: Is that the show that I saw you on, Joe?

[1:06:58] Joe Carroll: I saw you on something like that.

[1:06:59] Dan Tracy: No, it was Politician.

[1:07:03] Carson Higgins: Yeah.

[1:07:03] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[1:07:03] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[1:07:04] Carson Higgins: I was like, Well, you're gonna see him on another one of your favorite shows very soon.

[1:07:08] Carson Higgins: I can't wait.

[1:07:09] Carson Higgins: As a charming, charming, handsome man.

[1:07:11] Dan Tracy: Oh, you guys are nice to me.

[1:07:12] Carson Higgins: Who I want to punch.

[1:07:14] Dan Tracy: That's all the things.

[1:07:14] Carson Higgins: Thanks for listening to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[1:07:17] Dan Tracy: We'll see you next week.

[1:07:20] Carson Higgins: Thank you for listening to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[1:07:23] Dan Tracy: We are now part of the Broadway podcast network.

[1:07:27] Carson Higgins: Woo!

[1:07:27] Dan Tracy: We are hosted by Dan Tracy.

[1:07:29] Carson Higgins: That's you.

[1:07:30] Dan Tracy: And Joe Carroll.

[1:07:31] Carson Higgins: That's me.

[1:07:31] Dan Tracy: We're produced by Ryan Kincaid, and Matthew Mucha is the social content manager.

[1:07:36] Carson Higgins: You can find us on Instagram at Guys Who Like Musicals on Twitter at Musical Guys, or the old fashioned way at WW that guys like musicals.com.

[1:07:43] Dan Tracy: If you'd like a chance to be featured on the Ask the Guys segment of our show, please call 203-900-7990 and leave a message with your question.

[1:07:53] Carson Higgins: As always, thanks for listening.