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[0:01] Joe Carroll: But a lot of times, understudies come from the ensemble, so members of the ensemble who are dancing and singing and playing bit parts every night will cover these roles.

[0:11] Dan Tracy: But a lot of times what happens is these people become so valuable as covers that they don't get promoted to play the roles that they cover.

[0:19] That's kind of a classic tale. So a lot of times, they're so valuable as an understudy in the ensemble, dancing and singing and then maybe understudying two or three parts that they won't get promoted.

[0:30] And Neil Haskell, from So You Think You Can Dance, and he's done a million Broadway shows now.

[0:35] Yeah, he made his Broadway debut when he was like 19, I think.

[0:38] Joe Carroll: Yep, in Times They Are a-Changin.

[0:40] And he was in Tucker for Lasting and Nine to Five, a whole bunch of things.

[0:45] He is one of the best dancers in New York.

[0:48] Dan Tracy: He's like one of the most sought after dancers in the city.

[0:52] And he covered a whole bunch of parts. He covered John Lawrence.

[0:55] He started as a swing in the original company of Hamilton when it moved to Broadway.

[1:01] And he covered King George, the role originated by Jonathan Groff.

[1:06] Obviously, everybody knows that.

[1:07] Joe Carroll: Well, maybe they don't.

[1:08] Dan Tracy: I don't want to yell at them.

[1:09] We shouldn't assume.

[1:10] Joe Carroll: We shouldn't assume.

[1:11] Dan Tracy: But he covered this role.

[1:14] They liked him so much as he went on that when the role became available in one of the national tours, they asked him to play it.

[1:21] So now the dude has been massively promoted and is going to be playing King George around the country starting like last week, I think was his first performance.

[1:30] And so we talked to him a couple of weeks ago before he took over.

[1:33] And that's something I love this week is just when understudies get promoted to play the role.

[1:38] It happened with Noah Ricketts, who I'm currently in Frozen with.

[1:41] He was the understudy for Kristoff and then he got promoted to play the role and now the role is his.

[1:45] And he's a principal every night.

[1:48] It's a very cool thing.

[1:49] And I've actually gone through the process where I haven't gotten promoted.

[1:52] It sucks when you're like you're understudying my Broadway debut, I was understudying in Once, a role became available and I didn't get promoted.

[1:59] And the director sent me a nice note and was like, hey, you know, we love you in the show, but you know, we're going to go and we're going to hire somebody new.

[2:07] That story ends really well because they ended up hiring my good friend Carlos Valdez, who is currently on The Flash.

[2:13] But they hired him to take over for Will Connelly in Once.

[2:16] And so a lot of times people, you know, who cover multiple roles don't get promoted and Neil got promoted.

[2:21] And that's the thing I love this week.

[2:22] Joe Carroll: Yeah, cool.

[2:23] But right before we jump into that interview with Neil, I wanted to call out a thing I love, which is this article that the New York Times just ran called Who Calls the Shots on Broadway? She Does.

[2:32] It's a deep dive into some of the killer female producers that are leading the producing pack this year on Broadway.

[2:44] Ava Price, who is working on Oklahoma and Jagged Little Pill, Diana DeMena, who helped bring what the Constitution means to me, Mara Isaacs, who's working on Hadestown, Dori Berenstein, who's working on The Prom.

[2:59] There's a bunch of other people here.

[3:01] And this article is written by Michael Paulson from The New York Times.

[3:05] It came out Wednesday.

[3:08] And it's just a really interesting read about kind of where we are in the industry with female producers and where we could go and how much further there is to go.

[3:20] It's a really interesting read.

[3:22] And I think you should check it out.

[3:23] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[3:24] And a lot of callbacks to what Gina Rattan said a couple of weeks ago.

[3:28] We had her on our show and she's talking about, you know, who gets to call the shots, who gets to decide, you know, the stories that we consume as consumers and theater goers.

[3:40] And I mean, it's a bigger issue on TV and in film and all these things like who are the people who are telling us as consumers what we should be seeing.

[3:47] Right.

[3:48] And these producers have incredible power.

[3:49] And a lot of times, and still historically, it's old white men and Broadway's changing the narrative, you know, and they're trying.

[3:57] They're trying.

[3:58] We still have a long way to go.

[3:59] And there's still, you know, a significant underrepresentation as far as writers and directors are concerned in commercial theater.

[4:07] But what's good is that if there's more commercial representation of female producers, then you can assume that they'll be more willing and interested in growing the numbers for female writers and directors.

[4:24] So that's awesome.

[4:25] Because one of my greatest theatrical experiences ever was with a female director.

[4:29] And my second greatest theatrical experience was also with a female director.

[4:33] And my Broadway debut was a female director.

[4:36] The list was small, and we want the list to grow.

[4:39] I think that there's a lot of truth there and stuff to be learned.

[4:44] And I think these women who produced these shows, I mean, if you're talking about this article in particular, you're talking about shows like the Oklahoma Revival and Jagged Little Pill, What the Constitution Means to Me in Hadestown.

[4:57] These are like, these are theater, this is changing theater.

[5:01] These are shows that are like, that should technically maybe not be commercially produced.

[5:06] These are shows that are pushing the envelope.

[5:08] Joe Carroll: Totally risky.

[5:09] Dan Tracy: Totally risky.

[5:10] They're not, you know, they're not commercial slam dunks.

[5:15] And so it's, you know, they're pushing the game, changing the game.

[5:19] Joe Carroll: Pushing the envelope.

[5:20] Dan Tracy: They're pushing the envelope.

[5:22] Game changing.

[5:23] Joe Carroll: Sorry.

[5:24] Dan Tracy: You know, just like pick your favorite catchphrase.

[5:29] My brain isn't working.

[5:30] Can I just talk about this?

[5:31] I hate United Airlines.

[5:32] So I'm going to talk about this on the show just for a moment.

[5:35] Because I was out of town this past weekend, supposed to fly back yesterday, and United pushed and delayed our flight, and I had to call out of the show last night, and I'm really pissed about it.

[5:44] Because you don't do shows, and you want to do the shows.

[5:49] You don't get paid if you don't do the shows.

[5:50] So that's also part of it.

[5:51] But I also just am like, I'm mad at them.

[5:53] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[5:54] Well, you get to do two today.

[5:56] Dan Tracy: I get to do two today.

[5:57] I'm walking out here.

[5:58] It's Wednesday morning.

[5:59] I'm walking out here.

[6:00] Going to go do two.

[6:01] I've got a little vacation beard going.

[6:02] The vacation beard is going to be chopped off.

[6:03] Hopefully you don't have those vacation cords.

[6:07] Joe Carroll: Vacation cords.

[6:08] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[6:09] Let it go.

[6:10] Okay.

[6:11] It's going to be fine.

[6:12] That's not you.

[6:13] A little bit about Neil.

[6:14] It's a great interview.

[6:15] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[6:16] The guy's really fun.

[6:17] Dan Tracy: Totally.

[6:18] Such a good guy.

[6:19] I've been watching him dance since I was 14 or whatever.

[6:23] When he was on So You Think You Can Dance, I think I was probably older than that.

[6:27] But really great guy.

[6:29] He's really good friends with some of our buddies from college, so we've known him for a while.

[6:34] Joe Carroll: We did Cinderella together.

[6:36] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[6:37] He's a dancer who's pushing his abilities as a singer and as an actor.

[6:41] He's constantly trying to innovate and move his career forward.

[6:46] He talks a lot about growing up in Buffalo, New York, which is a notoriously tough blue-collar town.

[6:52] He started as a gymnast, and then he moved into dancing.

[6:57] That's what it's like to be a guy coming up through a town with the Buffalo Sabres and the Buffalo Bills, and he's going to dance class.

[7:04] And just owning that.

[7:06] He has a really good perspective on ownership of something that people have been bullied for.

[7:15] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[7:16] If you're getting bullied as a kid, it kind of helps to learn how to do a backflip.

[7:21] Dan Tracy: Sure.

[7:22] Right.

[7:23] So yeah, let's jump in.

[7:25] That's it.

[7:26] Here's Neil.

[7:27] Neil Haskell: Neil Haskell.

[7:29] Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[7:30] Joe Carroll: Woo!

[7:31] Yay, Neil!

[7:32] Dan Tracy: Thank you, Neil.

[7:33] Neil Haskell: Yeah.

[7:34] Oh, man.

[7:35] Thank you for being here.

[7:36] Neil Haskell: It's early.

[7:37] Dan Tracy: Yeah, it is.

[7:38] Neil Haskell: Yeah.

[7:39] Thank you for being here so early, too.

[7:40] Neil Haskell: It's okay.

[7:41] I've been up since seven.

[7:42] I've been moving out of my apartment this morning.

[7:43] Joe Carroll: No.

[7:44] Neil Haskell: Yeah.

[7:45] Yeah.

[7:46] I'm moving out of the city in a week.

[7:47] Dan Tracy: Oh, my gosh.

[7:48] Neil Haskell: It's very exciting.

[7:49] Yeah.

[7:50] And it is for a good reason.

[7:51] It's for a great cause.

[7:52] Joe Carroll: Great cause.

[7:53] Neil Haskell: Great cause.

[7:54] Are you allowed to talk about such bad causes?

[7:56] Neil Haskell: I am, as long as this episode airs at a specific time after...

[7:59] Dan Tracy: Perfect.

[8:00] Neil Haskell: Yes.

[8:01] After August 6th or 7th, I think.

[8:03] Dan Tracy: That's what you said.

[8:04] Neil Haskell: Yeah.

[8:05] No, I'm going on tour with Hamilton, playing King George.

[8:07] Joe Carroll: Woo!

[8:08] Dan Tracy: Woo-hoo.

[8:09] Yay!

[8:10] Neil Haskell: That's awesome, dude.

[8:11] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[8:12] Let's jump in there.

[8:13] That's a hot take.

[8:15] How long have you been with Hamilton?

[8:16] Neil Haskell: I've been with Hamilton for about four years.

[8:18] Dan Tracy: This is on Broadway.

[8:19] Neil Haskell: This is on Broadway.

[8:20] I started as a swing in 2015 when the show was opening.

[8:27] After the transfer from the public.

[8:28] Neil Haskell: After the transfer from the public.

[8:31] I found out probably...

[8:32] I think it was at the public until April sometime, I think, and I think I found out like two weeks before it ended at the public and I could not go see it, but they sent me videos of it.

[8:42] And the first...

[8:44] I was going to be swinging the show, covering six tracks, and they sent me a video of the public.

[8:49] I opened my laptop, watched the opening number, slammed the laptop shut.

[8:54] I was like, no fucking way.

[8:58] What did I sign up for?

[8:59] Literally, what did I sign up for?

[9:00] I was so stressed out.

[9:02] It took me...

[9:04] I think it took me four days to watch the entire show on the laptop because I just kept closing it and having mild panic attacks because I was like, oh my God.

[9:15] I don't know how to do that.

[9:17] It's absolutely insane learning all six of those tracks, but it's like everybody is so unique and different in the show that it was just...

[9:26] It looked impossible.

[9:27] Dan Tracy: Right.

[9:28] Neil Haskell: Right.

[9:29] Cut to it not being impossible, like a couple months later, but...

[9:32] Joe Carroll: Nothing is impossible.

[9:33] Neil Haskell: Sure.

[9:34] But I can imagine the terror of that and if anybody doesn't know, basically, the swing idea, being a swing, you cover the ensemble.

[9:41] You cover it.

[9:42] And how many tracks did you end up learning over the course of your time?

[9:45] Neil Haskell: I learned six.

[9:46] Six total.

[9:48] I performed five, but really four and a half.

[9:51] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[9:52] Neil Haskell: It sounds like there's a story there.

[9:55] And then the last one that I never ended up performing, a lot of people would say it was the easiest track.

[10:01] It was the Man 6 track.

[10:03] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[10:04] Neil Haskell: Physically easiest, not whatever easiest, but I never did that one, but I did a put in for that one.

[10:08] But really, I was just carrying around paper being like, where does this guy walk to?

[10:12] But the reason I've done half of a show for one of the other guys, I did a half a show for one of the tracks twice.

[10:19] And it was my first time doing the show.

[10:21] Joe Carroll: So somebody went out mid-show?

[10:22] Neil Haskell: Somebody went out at intermission.

[10:26] On Broadway, it would be like the Man 4 track, who has like the gun solo and the book solo.

[10:35] Joe Carroll: That's a deep cut.

[10:36] Neil Haskell: No, it's great.

[10:37] No, this is great.

[10:39] Maybe some listeners will know what that is.

[10:42] Sure.

[10:43] But I went on at intermission.

[10:44] It was the first track I'd ever gone on for.

[10:46] I had not learned this track yet.

[10:48] We were two weeks, maybe a week and a half after opening.

[10:52] The only track that I had been learning was Man 2, which is Thane Jasperson's track.

[10:57] But during tech, I sat up in the front row of the balcony and learned the show from just watching them run things during tech.

[11:05] I would record each number from my phone and then sit there and just type up what each track is doing.

[11:10] I had these brilliant tracking sheets.

[11:14] The idea of them, I stole from Cody Davis during Cinderella.

[11:17] My former roommate, one of our best friends.

[11:21] That's actually how we met.

[11:22] Joe Carroll: We'll get to that in a minute.

[11:23] Neil Haskell: But keep going.

[11:27] I would have like six different Microsoft Word pamphlets, pages, and each of them had their own track.

[11:37] Each page was about 20 pages long.

[11:41] So they're like 20 pages per track of just typing up the dance steps and the set moves and the prop moves and where you're standing and who you're running between and all this stuff.

[11:51] So when they were like, they were probably about three quarters of the way through Act 1.

[11:58] They're like, you're going to be going on for Act 2 for this guy.

[12:00] And I was like, oh God, I never even had one of the costumes on.

[12:06] And I was like, cool.

[12:07] Can we print out these notes, all 20 pages, put them on each side of the stage?

[12:14] And then Steph Clemons, who was like the dance captain at the time and the associate or the dance supervisor and the associate choreographer, she was everything.

[12:24] She stood on each side depending on where I was going to exit with a video.

[12:29] So I'd run off stage, read my notes, and then we would like fast forward through a video just to see where my guy is going to go, where I'm supposed to go.

[12:37] And then they would like put their hand on my back and just push me out on stage.

[12:41] It was so crazy.

[12:43] And I didn't know the spacing.

[12:46] It was so new to me.

[12:47] I'd been with the show for five weeks at this point, but it was like, you know, up until a week before this, everything was still changing.

[12:55] It was wild.

[12:58] And the only reason I knew where to go on stage was because there was a light special that was about to open up or there was like an open.

[13:07] Neil Haskell: There was like an opening in the formation. I was like, that's probably my spot. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's my night. This is the actor's nightmare. This is what you wake up in the middle of the night like, like normal people. Well, my mom talks about like, you know, you show up to the test and you haven't studied, you know, or like, you know, you actually were living the actor's nightmare, which is you're on stage and you don't know where you're going. I walk on the stage for what did I miss, which is top of act two. And I get into the diagonal line where everybody where Thomas Jefferson is walking along and like checking us all out, whatever. And I look out in the audience. I'm like shitting myself at this point. And I in the third row, I see a kid who I grew up dancing with and competing against. I was like, there's real people in this audience. This is crazy. I was like, oh, God. Oh, God.

[13:51] Joe Carroll: I thought you were going to say you looked down and Barack Obama was in.

[13:56] Neil Haskell: No, but there's a there's a part near the end of the show where I had never physically done this choreography yet. Wow. I knew what it looked like. I think I learned it for this other track on the other leg. Right. So I knew your image, the mirror image of what I was supposed to be doing. So I'd never done this choreography the whole time. I'm looking out. I'm looking like out the corner of my eye at the person who I'm mirroring across the stage and literally in the moment just copying what they're doing. Like it was it was fucking wild.

[14:31] Joe Carroll: That's unbelievable.

[14:33] Neil Haskell: Yeah. I think I went home and like just like shook for like an hour. Yeah. Just full anxiety. Andy Blankenbuehler emailed me. He's like, yo, man, I heard you went on how to go. Like, it's amazing. So huge. Like, congratulations. So huge. Lynn tweeted about it. He was like, Neil, like stepped up. It was huge. Everything like that. And I was like, I felt fucking terrible, completely out of body. Awful. Oh, but I felt I felt awful, right? Because I was like, you know, I don't even know if I was doing the right stuff. But like apparently the show ended and people still stood up and clapped. So I was like, you know, two thumbs up, I guess.

[15:07] Joe Carroll: Hurt yourself or anybody else.

[15:09] Neil Haskell: I did not hurt myself or anybody else. All my partners went up in the air. The costumes got put on partnering. Yeah, I mean, it was I bet that's one that you wish like there was a recording of like a video recording of so you could see like outside of yourself, like what you because I'm sure it looked perfect, like that's the theater magic part of this, because like it probably from an audience perspective, they didn't know.

[15:31] Joe Carroll: Nope. Nobody. Nobody would have known.

[15:32] Neil Haskell: Right. Nobody would have known. Wild. So wild. That's I mean, and that's that's like that's like a swings nightmare. Right. Right. And I mean, with that sort of thing, do you in the swing brain, like do you wake up in the middle of the night, like with those sort of fever dreams, like, you know, I mean, you actually lived it, which is the crazy part. So now it's like, you know, you're going to work and, you know, somebody's on vacation, somebody gets injured and you're going out for somebody. But like, do you do you ever have that sort of sickening feeling when you're like sitting in your apartment or does that last for like a month or two and then it goes away?

[16:04] Neil Haskell: You know, it would be every day at like four or four thirty p.m. when the stage manager would text the whole like all the swings and creatives. There's like an in out text, like who's in, who's out. Every time I get a text between like the hours of like four and five p.m., my heart would just stop and I'd look at the phone and be like, oh, God, please not be me. Oh, God, thank God. I was like I was like, this is not this is not healthy. And so I only swung at Hamilton for about eight months and then I left.

[16:33] Joe Carroll: Got it. Yeah, that's correct.

[16:35] Neil Haskell: I left for three months to do Talk Everlasting.

[16:37] Joe Carroll: That's right.

[16:39] Neil Haskell: And then I came back to Hamilton the day after the Tonys and jumped into the man one track, which is John Rua's original track, which I did for the next three years.

[16:51] Joe Carroll: Got it. Yeah. Got it. Cool. That's awesome. That's awesome. And I you know, we don't we get jumped on the bandwagon. We don't we get jump around a lot because I mean, there's probably a million Hamilton stories around. Like when you posted the other day, when you were like leaving the show, leaving the show, which I guess you're not really now leaving the show. You're going back to the show, you know, but it was a secret. It was an Instagram secret. But when did you find out that you were going to take over for the king?

[17:18] Neil Haskell: They asked me about my interest in availability, um, about taking over, uh, I think at the beginning of April, the first or second week of April. Yeah. But I don't think I signed my contract until June. Nice. That was a bit of a stressful month and a half. They really do like they're so loyal to you guys over there. That's such a it seems like they're like promoting people. They're like taking people from the ensemble and giving them roles. Like that's such an awesome.

[17:52] Joe Carroll: Yeah, they're opportunity.

[17:54] Neil Haskell: They're pretty awesome. Yeah. People to be people to work with people. This is I mean, this is the second show I've done with Lynn. This is the I think third show I've done with Alex Lackmore, third show I've done with Andy. Like it's there's there. They like to keep their people around. Yeah. And yeah, they're just so amazing to work with. And but it's also they don't let you like just skate by or slide by it. Like they they they pick their hard workers and they'll keep them. Yeah. And the people who aren't working as hard, you know, they'll. Off you go. Yeah. They'll they'll say, you know, thank you so much for your time. Like we've like, yeah, they're just such good people, though.

[18:37] Joe Carroll: That's amazing. And it is it is true, because a lot of people don't realize, like when you are the understudy, when you are the swing, a lot of times you don't get, you know, promoted or bumped up to play the role because you're so valuable in that position where, you know, five, six tracks, you understudy two or three roles. Yeah. So the fact that they that they're doing that and that you got promoted to the king just feels it's got to feel like the world's greatest vote of confidence that like.

[19:01] Neil Haskell: Absolutely. But I was just as shocked as anybody else. I was like, you want me to do the king? Well, I mean, I've done it on like I've covered it and I've performed it on Broadway, but it's like to do it for real. It just doesn't seem like it would be it real. I don't know. It's just when when I asked, I was like, I was like, where's the catch? Yeah, right. Yeah. You want me to play the king? And then you also want me to do. Are you trying to give me a contract and then like send me to a place where there's not a tour? What's happening here?

[19:38] Joe Carroll: Well, I always thought that like in the in the super non equity version of Hamilton that will happen 40 years from now, like the king will be dancing in the ensemble.

[19:46] Neil Haskell: Oh, 100 percent. You know, so I bet you were like, you know.

[19:49] Joe Carroll: Oh yeah. They want you to play the king. But you're also going to do the gun solo.

[19:53] Neil Haskell: No, no. Or that day will never come for Hamilton and it'll be like Lion King and just be production forever.

[19:59] Joe Carroll: I mean, I think it will be.

[20:01] Neil Haskell: Yeah. And Phantom. Can we go back to the beginning? How do you feel about that?

[20:03] Joe Carroll: Great. Love it. Go back.

[20:07] Neil Haskell: You mean the beginning of his life at the beginning of the interview? Like you just cut everything.

[20:11] Joe Carroll: That was terrible.

[20:13] Neil Haskell: No, I mean, yeah. No, the beginning of your life.

[20:15] Joe Carroll: The beginning of your life. Did you you first off?

[20:19] Neil Haskell: Sure. I watched every single episode of So You Think You Can Dance.

[20:24] Joe Carroll: Going back back.

[20:26] Neil Haskell: Yeah. So did you start dancing, dancing?

[20:30] Neil Haskell: Yeah. Only dancing. The reason they want to go back to that. The So You Think You Can Dance stuff is for your mother, though, because you guys watched it together. You just told me this before Neil showed up. He's like he's like my mom and I watched every episode. My mom loves a reality show. And we've missed So You Think You Can Dance. It was such a good show.

[20:46] Joe Carroll: It's still on.

[20:47] Neil Haskell: It is still on season 16.

[20:50] Joe Carroll: Wow. It's like now 30.

[20:51] Neil Haskell: Now it's on. I guess I don't watch it anymore.

[20:53] Joe Carroll: Yeah. No, it's still it's yeah, it's airing there. I don't know when this will air, but there will be. Yeah, that's I think they're like four episodes into the season.

[21:02] Neil Haskell: I love it. Wow. OK, go back. Yeah. So anyway, I just want to go back to like baby Neil. Like how did you get interested in performing? How did you start performing? What was your relationship? We'll start there. Sure.

[21:16] Neil Haskell: I started doing gymnastics when I was five because everybody else in my family did it. I'm the youngest of five. So I girls, two boys, two girls. And one of them is my twin brother. Oh, cool. Everybody was doing gymnastics. I started flipping before I was doing gymnastics just because I thought, you know, that's what you had to do. Like I thought the old my older siblings who were tumbling and doing flips and stuff, I was like, oh, well, I want to do what they're doing. So in the back room, I would like take the couch cushions off and just like practice backflips and like just hit my head.

[21:54] Joe Carroll: It shows.

[21:54] Neil Haskell: Yeah, it's true. Yeah. So like I started doing gymnastics when I was five. Later in the fall, I started dancing. Me and my brother started taking class because our like preschool girlfriend was in class. And we just wanted to hang out with her. And from like the ages of five to 18, I was at the same dance studio. It ended up being just like a really phenomenal dance studio that allowed me to grow. And I grew up competing in dance. When I was 15, I started doing like summer intensives like in theater, people go to like interlocking and stage door and stage door and French woods. Yeah. I went to Chautauqua Institution for ballet, which Chautauqua Institution, if you've never been, it's wild. Like it's like this like incredible arts community.

They have for like students and stuff. They have dance, theater, opera, sculpture. It's it's wow. Yeah, it's unreal. Like the the dancers are the youngest ones there. Like I think the youngest dancers there are like 12 through 20. And then the dancers who are there who are like older than 20 are the ones who are like in the dance company. But then there's like opera people from Juilliard and actors from Juilliard who come there for the summer. And like there's like a theater, semi-professional theater company there. And it's it's an amazing community. So I spent three summers there. And then I went to college for dance at Point Park for a whole year.

[23:24] Joe Carroll: Yeah. One whole year. Uh-huh. Super worth it.

[23:27] Neil Haskell: Point Park. Great. Great. But I was thinking about this this morning. I like once I went to college and I was going for dance, I was like, I just want to dance. Yeah. I went to an English class like the first week of school, and the teacher gave us an assignment for like it was a writing piece or whatever. And I went back to my dorm for like 15 minutes before my next dance class. And I was like, I'm dropping out of that class. Hundred percent dropping out of that class. This is not relevant in Pennsylvania. They have these things called CLEP test. I don't know what it stands for, CLEP. But you can go to a testing center, pay like 100 bucks. And if you pass the test with like a certain grade, you get all those college credits.

So I went and took I paid like 150 bucks to take the English and the math. And I got six English credits, six math credits. I was done with like the because I was really smart in high school. I just had no interest in continuing on with like the general education, whatever. Like I was like, I'm here to dance. Right. I just have to dance.

[24:40] Neil Haskell: Just gotta dance. No, but like I tested out of those. I got 12 credits by the end of my freshman year since because I came in with AP credits and all that. I was almost essentially about like I was several credits away from being a junior. Like it was it was wild. Yeah. So I danced my way through college.

[25:00] Joe Carroll: But you're only there for a year. So how come what happened?

[25:02] Neil Haskell: Oh, so I ended up driving with like four or five other friends to Dayton, Ohio.

[25:11] Joe Carroll: Kids, kids, I was a college where Alex Fink is from.

[25:13] Neil Haskell: Yeah. Where I was born.

[25:15] Joe Carroll: Oh, so I got married. Dayton, Ohio is the center of the universe.

[25:18] Neil Haskell: It's like low key. No, it is. It is. There's like a statue in the middle of Main Street, I think. And that's all I remember. It's a strange place and there's not a lot going on. But all of a sudden there's a lot going on. But they actually have a they have a great dance company there. D.C. D.C. Dayton Contemporary Dance Company, I believe it's called. But I think that's where I auditioned because I auditioned for the show Moving Out. They were on tour there and they were holding auditions. So five of us from college drove there. I ended up auditioning and there was there's probably only like 15 guys there auditioning. They're just seeing people. I don't know why they're auditioning in Dayton.

Yeah, but I made it like there was like two of us at the end. This the casting director, Megan Larsh, she used to cast for Bender. OK. And now she works at, I believe, Tuts. OK. I think she's amazing. She pulled me aside at the end. She was like, hey, do you tumble? And I was like, yeah, she was like.

[26:14] Neil Haskell: Twyla is doing this new show in New York. They just did it out of town in San Diego. And we'd love to see you for that in New York. Can you get to New York? I was like, yeah, just let me know when. And this is like probably like March of freshman year. I was doing this. Wow. And then I ended up flying or taking a bus or whatever to New York. I think like seven or eight times. Oh, my God, because they kept bringing me back in. My first audition was at Ailey. I had no idea where I was going. I flew in. I got like MapQuest directions. MapQuest, throwback, yeah. You're only 18? You're like 18, 19 years old? 18 or 19, yeah. And I walk into Ailey and I was like, I'm here for this audition, whatever.

They sent me to the back room. And in the back room is a piano player. Twyla Tharp and one other person. And I was like, what the fuck is going on? Well, like no pomp and circumstance, it's just Twyla Tharp. Just just Twyla Tharp. Unreal. And so I walk in. I was like, hello. And she was like she came over, shook my hand. She was like, thanks for coming. Whatever. Just go warm up and we're figuring stuff out. So essentially it was a for no reason whatsoever. I had a solo audition for Twyla Tharp. Oh, my God. My like my first real big audition in New York was a one on one audition with Twyla and her assistant, Charlie. But the assistant, Charlie, I think knew like he was like messing with me a little bit.

He's amazing, dude. He's one of my favorite dancers ever. But I have a feeling he was messing with me during the audition, pretending that he wasn't the assistant and pretending he was like auditioning against me. Oh, my God. So I was like, all I have to do is beat this guy, I guess. Right. Like you like you get down to the end and it's just you and this other guy. But no, he's actually he's the assistant. Yeah. I was like, this is weird. So then I have the one on one audition for like an hour. And then she was like, can you stay any longer? We're having like eight guys, eight equity people come in and audition as well. So I was like, yeah. So I stayed for another two hours to two and a half hours audition with them.

At the end of that, she was like, can you stay again? We're having like a non equity. Eight guys come in and we're auditioning them as well. So I'm auditioning for like six, seven hours straight. I also I started at 9 a.m. and I didn't eat breakfast before. I was like shaking. My muscles were like because you're like dancing in front of Twyla Tharp. You're you're going. Yeah, you're going ham for six, seven hours and like tumbling and holding handstands and like just doing like at one point in one of the eight auditions I went through. She was like, all right, everybody, I need to see you all hold a handstand for a minute. What go literally? And everybody was like and she was like, if you fall, if you fall out, just just stay out of it.

And like there were it was like me, Carrie Tedder. Yeah. Who ended up booking the show as well? Yes. And a couple of the people. And we just all had to hold handstands for a minute. That's like that's never happened. This is like the most turbocharged true story. A chorus version of a chorus line that has ever existed. I had to learn in the room, like in the moment. She was like, do a left aerial. I was like, I've never done that. I can hardly even do a left cartwheel. But sure. And I was like, oh, I land it. And I was like, is anything broken? And then she was like, OK, do a front aerial. And I was like, what? Also, I've never done that before. But I had to like I had to do a left aerial and a front aerial in the show.

So I was like, OK. Like it was like a very tumble heavy shows. It's called The Times They Are Changing. I don't know if I said that. But it was I thought you were leaving. Yeah. The stage was built with a sprung floor. There was a tumble track, which is like a long extended trampoline in the front of the stage. There was a raised one in the back of the stage with like a giant crash pad that you could like do, like Carrie did, like a double back in his audition onto it like it was a very interesting stage. The show itself ran. I booked the show after like my eighth audition, which is crazy. The last audition, one of the last auditions I had was actually at her apartment. Oh, my God. Which in 2019, I don't think that could happen.

Right. But in 2006, it was like, sure, I'll go to. Yeah. Yeah. Give me the address of Twyla's apartment. Pop open a bottle of wine. But she had like a dance studio in her apartment. I showed up and there were like five other dancers there who are already doing the show. And she was like, at this point, she was like, at this point, you know, it's not this is not an audition. This is we're just we're workshopping stuff for the show. And I was like, OK. She was like, I just wanted to have you here and like, you know, see how you work with everybody else. So, yeah, one of my decisions was at her apartment. Oh, my God. Like doing but essentially doing pre pro as opposed. Yeah, exactly. We're we're doing pre pro.

So creating choreography with people in the company, the choreographers kind of like workshopping what things are. But also some of these people were like my favorite dancers in the world, like John Selye and Jason Mick. Can't think of the last name. Yeah. Who's now teaching at Point Park University. Jason McDowell, like all these people were in moving out, which was my dream show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's how this all started. This is the exact audition for moving out. Right. Megan Lars was like, hey, I'll just for this show. Right. And like, that's how it all happened. What's that span of time from the time you auditioned and date until? I want to say it was like March. OK. March of like oh six.

And then I finally booked the show in August. Yeah. After coming back and forth to New York, I would buy like I would buy a one way ticket there and then just take a Greyhound bus back to Buffalo or back to school whenever I was done auditioning. Because sometimes I'd be like, oh, can you stay until tomorrow and do it? So I was like, I'll buy a one way. Yeah. And then just figure it out. Yeah. And then you slept in Port Authority. Literally like. Or didn't sleep. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Just one eye open. Right. Yeah. So I get a call on a on a Monday. It was second to last week of August. Maybe I was going back to school on Saturday. I get a call on Monday. We had just bought all our dorm supplies.

I get a call on Monday from not Jay Bender, but his partner at the time in the business. And he said, hey, they're hiring you for the show. Can you be here tomorrow and start rehearsals? And I was like, I was like, oh, shit, like this. What? I was like, I need to call my parents. I was like, I'll call you back. Oh, my God. I did not accept over the phone. Oh, my God. Call my mom at work. And I was like, Mom, I think I just booked a Broadway show and they want me there tomorrow. Can I go? Can I go? I mean, yeah, keep going. And so I called her and I called my dad and they were like, oh, my God. Yeah, it's amazing. I was like, I have I have to get all this stuff together. I don't know where I'm going to stay.

Like, I call. I call back. I call back the casting director. I was like, can I come on Wednesday instead of tomorrow? And they're like, uh, sure. And they're like, this is the pay. This is whatever. I was like, OK, cool. Neat. Yeah. Sounds like a lot of money. Yeah, literally. Yeah. I only made this much at Pittsburgh CLO. Right. Right. Which was actually a great paying job. Yeah. And my first gig ever. Yeah, still is. It's an amazing place to work. Yeah. Um, uh, where am I going to live? Oh, no. I ended up there was a guy I knew who went to a guy and a girl I knew who went to university at Buffalo and had just moved here like the year before. Actually, Rashaan James. He's like it high up in the union, whatever.

He's like a representative, all that. Him and this girl, Hallie. I crashed with them on their futon in a hallway of their apartment. Great. For like a month and a half in Astoria. Well, you know, I mean, I don't care. I was looking at a suitcase. It just seems like like now, like the way that you take care of your body as a dancer, especially like you're living on a futon, you know, doing a Twyla Tharp show. Like, was your body deteriorating or were you just like 18? You're like, nah, I'm good. Yeah, I was 19. He's like, let's do more flips. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Let's stand on our hands and walk to. Yeah, I was like, let me get subway on the way home. Let me fall asleep by 10 and wake up. I mean, I was it was in Astoria and rehearsals were at the City University up on one 38th.

Oh, wow. On the West Side of Harlem. So I was like, I would leave the house. No, I would I would I would just take the the R train down to Times Square and then take the local one train up. Oh, man, I didn't know how they express their local. They had to have taken like over an hour. Yeah, I leave my house every day at 730 or 745 for a 10 o'clock rehearsal and I'll get there at like nine. But I was not the first one there. Like everybody, everybody else in this company was already there warming up. Like this was like the hardest working company ever. It was it was like a dream come true. That's so cool. And the show closed in three weeks. I know I was. You just set yourself up perfectly because I was going to be like, and then the worst part was in that this business is brutal, because I remember when Carrie Tedder, I was a freshman and Carrie Tedder, they do this big senior entrance.

And so the scene, you know, the whole the whole department is there and the seniors kind of bust in on, like, you know, the first day of classes or whatever and do this. They always do like a number and they sing some stuff. And and they were introducing the seniors and they said, I'll never forget Carrie. They're like, and this is Carrie Tedder, the first person from the class of 2009 to make it to Broadway and the first one to come back. It was so and it was just so brutal. Like, I mean, that this business, dude, that is like. So how long did it actually run? We previewed for a month and then it ran for three weeks. Wow. The craziest part was there was an invited dress and it was my first performance ever on Broadway.

We're two thirds of the way through the show. Mind you, the show is only 90 minutes long, super short. And me and this me and this lady, Lisa Gaida, who I'm still friends with today. Amazing Broadway dancers is an 18 Broadway show or something like that. The two of us are singing a duet. If you know the deep cuts of Bob Dylan, we're singing Maggie's Farm. OK, very interesting for us to be singing duet. And during this duet, I'm also jumping up and down on a trampoline. So it sounded lit. I come down from jumping at the end, at the end of one of the verses, and I find like a loose place in the trampoline, and then all of a sudden that's my ankle. And I was like, oh, oh, shit. And I look down and my ankle just starts swelling.

And I was like, oh, I ain't going to work on Maggie's Farm no more. Still trying to sing. I was like, and I didn't know how understudies work. I didn't know how swings work. I have to climb. I'm like running off stage for like two seconds to grab all these props and bring them back on. And I look at one of the crew guys and I was like, I need a swing. And he was like, what? And I grabbed the props, run back on out on stage. And nothing happened because you don't just need a swing. I need a swing. I knew nothing about it. Right. I just knew my ankle was blowing up, turning purple. And I still have like eight tumbling passes to do for the rest of the show. Oh, my God. Cut to I finish. I end up finishing the show.

Oh, my God. And like, go. I don't like it's such a crazy moment in my life because I. Yeah, I did not know how any of this worked. I didn't know how injuries worked on Broadway. I didn't know how understudies worked. I didn't know how anything worked. Right. But I just told them, hey, I hurt my ankle. You know, whatever. I show up to rehearsal the next day. I hurt my ankle as it's like purple and three times the size that it should be. They're like, oh, put some ice on it. Like, we'll figure this out. I get to rehearsal the next day because, you know, we're in we're in tech. It's the first previews, either the next day or the day after. And I get there and I was like, so can't really walk like I'm like essentially using a cane.

They're like, oh, shit. Like we have to get like an understudy ready for tonight. Like all this stuff. And like, why didn't you tell us? And I was like, I did. I said, I hurt my ankle. Oh, my God. I didn't know how any of it worked. No, but that's also such a dancer thing, too, because dancers have such a high pain threshold. So like you're dancing on, you know, you probably had danced on all sorts of like injuries and things. Yeah. Knee stuff, everything hurts all the time. So you're like, oh, I'm OK. I'll get through it. And then there is that moment where you're actually like, oh, no, I actually can't. And now we know like and now, you know, like if you know, you hurt yourself, you fill out a form to talk to the stage manager. You know, we know how it works now. But as a 19 year old, no, no, you don't know. Oh, my God. Yeah. So I was literally my first Broadway performance. I got a second degree sprained ankle.

[39:22] Neil Haskell: The first two weeks of previews, I sat in the back of the house just watching. And then I came back into the show with just like a big ankle brace. And I was like, two weeks later, I was like, I'm not not doing the show any longer. Like I'm doing the show. Yeah. So I went back in two weeks later, did the last two weeks of previews, three weeks of the show, and then that's crazy. And we'll get it. We'll get off of this. But I love this just kind of jumping around because we got to it a second. But when you were growing up dancing, one of the things I was interested about, like, what was that like from a social and like community perspective? Like, I mean, and like a high school perspective, because I mean, as a guy dancing, that's still that's not the coolest thing in the world to do.

What? You know, like, I mean, from from a societal perspective. So like, you know, we don't have to get into like the scars of bullying. But like, did how did you deal with like growing up as a male dancer in Buffalo, New York? Because that sounds as close to Billy Elliot, the musical as like I could possibly imagine that it actually threw on an Irish accent. Yeah. Like, yeah, right. I got to dance with the ballet. Freaking Bali. That's that's all I know from the movie.

[40:39] Joe Carroll: You haven't seen that movie.

[40:40] Neil Haskell: I've seen it maybe like when I was, you know, twelve.

[40:43] Joe Carroll: Right. I actually never saw the musical, though.

[40:45] Neil Haskell: Yeah, I mean, I was good. Yeah, I heard. I mean, it looks gorgeous growing up in Buffalo dancing. It was interesting. Elementary school, I didn't get made fun of because I was also doing gymnastics. And what that meant is that I did flips on the playground and everybody thought that was the coolest thing ever. Awesome. So dance and gymnastics. I don't think anybody knew the difference. So there was like no there was there was really no making fun of that there.

[41:12] Joe Carroll: Interesting angle.

[41:13] Neil Haskell: Quite. Yeah.

[41:15] Joe Carroll: So you were the cool kid.

[41:16] Neil Haskell: Yeah. And there's the cool kid because you did flips.

[41:17] Joe Carroll: Yeah, because you can flip off.

[41:18] Neil Haskell: Yeah. Right. And I would destroy anybody in all those in like any sport we were playing in gym class. Like I was like, right. Right. Because you are super athletic. So like you were, you know, and we talked about you. I mean, you're you walked in here wearing a wearing a Buffalo Buffalo Sabre shirt, basically.

[41:31] Joe Carroll: So, yeah. Yeah. Which, yeah, I don't really follow the Sabres anymore, which is so upsetting. It's like, well, yeah, they're they're a great team.

[41:40] Neil Haskell: No, but you're more of a Bill's. You're the biggest Bill's fan that I that I've ever met.

[41:47] Joe Carroll: So we'll get to be hard to.

[41:48] Neil Haskell: Yeah, that must be not recently. I mean, we made it to the playoffs once, you know, once. Sweet. Once this millennium, we've made it to the playoffs. No. Growing up in Buffalo dancing. Like I said, people, you know, in elementary school, I think it made fun of because of gymnastics. But in middle school, it was. I was just more friends with more girls. So like the girls just thought it was cool, you know, some of their some of them dance with me or dance at the dance studio and knew it and like whatever. And then freshman year of high school, when like it could have gotten rough. The like my competition team, a lot of the girls went to my high school. And so homecoming week, we performed like a hip hop dance during like one of the weekly events.

And everybody thought that was the coolest thing in the world. Yeah. And so like all the football players, all the soccer players, everybody was like, dude, that was so cool. And you dance with all the girls. So like, that's awesome. And that happened freshman year.

[42:50] Joe Carroll: So you set the tone?

[42:52] Neil Haskell: Yeah, yeah, right. So set the tone. It was cool. Good thing it wasn't like a ballet number.

[42:56] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I wouldn't have done that.

[42:58] Neil Haskell: He knows. Yeah, no, we know is we danced to Michael Jackson's Scream and Janet's Scream. Yeah. It was like really cool. Yeah. You just set the tone for the tone for high school. And then that's what it was. And then like one of the the the soccer coach, the varsity soccer coach for the guys was also one of the musical directors. And so the entire soccer team would be in the musical as well. Cool. And so that's very cool. Yeah. So like we would just be like all dancing together. But like, you know, we'd be doing grease. And so like we'd just be like, what's the craziest thing we could do? All right, let's jump over each other's shoulders. Let's flip each other. Like because like they're super athletic.

And I know how to do all this stuff. So let's combine. Yeah. Yeah. Figure this out. So like it was never really. Yeah. Which is wild. What I also think that like inherently if in high school, if you do any take anything super seriously, people think that that's cool, whether or not they're going to say it out loud. Like I just remember like seeing the kids even like like I didn't take any AP classes, but like the people who are in the AP classes, I was like, it's so cool that they're so smart and I'm not that smart. And I wish I was smarter like those kids, you know, and I wish like the art kids. You're like sitting there and you're like, oh, like if anything that you take super seriously, I think people will think it's cool.

They might not say that out loud and they might make fun of you, like, you know, to their friends or, you know, to try to gain, you know, social points or whatever. But I think that anybody that takes anything seriously is that's inherently cool. And we're obviously taking it super seriously from a dance perspective, like all through high school. So when did like the musical theater thing, because obviously it was moving. Did you see moving out and you were like, oh, I did. When I was 16, I took a trip to New York for like a dance competition nationals. And on the first Broadway show I saw was the night before I saw Thoroughly Modern Millie. But the next one I saw the next night was moving out.

It was at the Richard Rodgers Theater where where Hamilton where Hamilton is. I sat in like the fourth row right on the aisle. One of my dance teachers was actually in in the show in the ensemble. So I was like, this is the coolest thing in the world. And I saw the show and I was like, oh, like you can like you can make a career out of this, like you can or you can have a job. And like I was like, oh, I want to do that. Like, that's what I want to do. Like, that's right. That's cool as fuck. Let me do that. So whatever that was, was what I was going to do. And that's when I was like, oh, OK, I guess I'll keep dancing. You know, I guess I'll keep doing it. But like theater wise, I did musicals in high school.

I didn't do my freshman year, but like sophomore through senior year, I did the musicals. We did Grease, 42nd Street and Fiddler on the Roof. And I always like refused to audition because I never actually wanted to do it. I used to think people who did the theater would do the musicals were theater nerds.

[45:49] Joe Carroll: Yeah, a bunch of theater nerds in this room, gotta be honest.

[45:53] Neil Haskell: Theater nerds! But yeah, I just I'd never like being in a being in a rehearsal in high school. It just like gave me like such like a cold feeling. I was like, I'm so uncomfortable rehearsing a musical. Like it just seemed so empty and weird. And like I just did not love to do it. Right. Performing it was cool, but I just I didn't love the process in high school. Yeah. But I did it to hang out with my friends and do the musicals. And it just turned into something like when I moved to New York or when I actually when I was in college, I auditioned for Pittsburgh C.L.O. and I booked that mostly because of dancing and flipping. I remember the either the dean at Point Park or the head of the musical theater program, who I had never met because I was strictly dancing there, saw me in the elevator at school after the audition.

And he was like, oh, man, they can't wait to hire you. I was like, oh, really? He was like, yeah, they don't even care that you can't sing. And I was like, oh, oh, God, let me tell you that story. I auditioned for PCLO and it was my first musical audition ever, professionally, whatever. And the night before I was at I was at a party, you know, hanging out with people. And they were like, they're like, you're going to go audition for C.L.O. I was like, I don't know, I guess like that seems cool. And they're like, what are you going to sing? I was like, oh, I don't know. And they're like, well, what do you know? Like, do you know any theater songs or they're like, what do you know? And I was like, I know Dave Matthews.

They're like, yeah, maybe not. You're the worst. That's like our, like Cody, back to Cody and Louie are my former roommates and some of our best friends. That's what Louie always says about Neal, Louie and Cody are both like, Neal's the worst. Best but the worst.

[47:39] Joe Carroll: The best but the worst. You're Dave Matthews.

[47:41] Neil Haskell: I like Dave Matthews. So this girl was like, this girl, Julia, was like, oh, do you know, oh, what a beautiful morning from Oklahoma. You probably. And I was like, yeah, oh, whatever. And I was like, yeah, sure. So we printed out two pages of that sheet music. I stapled them to a manila folder so it would stand up. And that was like pretty professional. I mean, like didn't just bring in two sheets of paper. And but like the the the start of where I was going to sing was like right at the top of the page. There's no intro into it. And so when I handed it to the the piano player at the audition, he was like, what do you want? How do you want to start this? And I was like, oh, these last like two bars down here.

Why don't you play that? And then we'll jump back into it like the end of the chorus. We'll jump back into the chorus. Makes sense to me. But the end of the chorus in my head doesn't go back into the chorus. It goes into the verse. So it's like there's a bright golden haze on the meadow. So the end of the chorus in my head went to those notes and not to the chorus. And so the first like five, six, seven bars of the chorus, I'm singing a different tune with the wrong words and all this. And I was just like, oh, what a beautiful like trying to find it and just like shaking so uncomfortable, probably holding on to a piano. Oh my God. Like having no idea how to do this. Right. And because of like the dancing and the flipping and I like the tumbling pass I did for them when I was auditioning was a roundup back, answering back, talk back, handspring full, twisting backflip and I'm like the wooden dance floor.

And they were like, oh, shit. Cool. That guy's the best tumbling pass they've ever seen. Yeah, sure. Yeah, probably. And so they were like, yeah, we're hiring him. Regardless, this guy can't. We just won't give him a microphone. Yeah, you'll learn how to sing. When I moved to New York, I started taking voice lessons and all that. I did singing. I did like chorus in high school. OK. So I learned how to read music and stuff. I just wasn't great. I wasn't well versed in like theater. Yeah. Well, and now like to bring it slightly full circle, like you're just singing on stage.

[49:52] Neil Haskell: I'm just singing. Start King George. Three songs, stand there, sing and wave and take a bow. Perfect, man. That's why I was also shocked. Imagine like 13 years ago, I'm doing a terrible audition for PCLO. Yeah. I don't get a mic in the first show. Actually, Mrs. Potts mic broke. And they're like, hey, Neil, we need your mic. We'll give you hers. And I was like, I know this is broken. I don't need to wear this. I was just joking, but they actually didn't give you a microphone.

[50:24] Joe Carroll: They know they gave me a broken microphone.

[50:26] Neil Haskell: They like they literally were like, this mic is broken. Let's take it from Mrs. Potts. Neil, take your microphone off. Give it to her. Put on hers. Oh, my gosh. And I was like, yeah. I've definitely transitioned my skill set since living in New York. It's so awesome. How are we doing on time and stuff? How are we like?

[50:52] Joe Carroll: We're getting long, so if there's anything you want to hit, then you should hit it.

[50:55] Neil Haskell: I want it. I got just two. I have like two more questions.

[51:00] Joe Carroll: Sure.

[51:00] Neil Haskell: One, which is that the water is... Someone flushed the toilet in the apartment. So somebody's taking a shower. Just the advice to younger performers, to younger dancers. Do you have any tips for young dancers or young actors or young dancers who can't sing or young actors who can't dance?

[51:22] Neil Haskell: Learn how to dance. I would say, I guess this would be more advice for like when somebody finally moves to the city. Yeah. Find class. Take class. Find a teacher. Find a voice teacher. Find an acting teacher. Find a dance teacher. Find that and connect with them and get into class and continue growing. If you move her out of high school, if you move her out of college, you're not done learning. I didn't take acting. I didn't do theater in college. So when I moved here, I realized that I would have to somehow learn all this stuff that other people came in with the knowledge of. I moved here at 19. By the time I was 22, all the people I would have graduated with came here with all those skill sets that I did not have.

Now I had two or three Broadway shows under my belt, but I also didn't have the ability to audition as well or to play roles or do anything like that because I didn't know how to audition with that. I didn't know how to use any sort of acting technique at all. I was just winging it.

[52:29] Neil Haskell: I think finding an acting studio or an acting teacher, finding a voice teacher, and taking dance class. I love that. It never stops.

[52:39] Joe Carroll: And it's a really good point because Dan and I did the opposite and went to this really prestigious university and had all this training, but don't think for a second that it's okay for us to stop training now. I'm six years, seven years out of school, and I still study with a voice teacher. In fact, I rebuilt my voice after college. I'm sure. With two different teachers. Because also you're a different person now. You're a grown man and you were an adolescent. And we talked about that a lot, but you, Dan, worked so hard vocally. After we graduated and moved here, you were always in voice lessons, always working on your sound and your voice. And actually one of the things that was the most inspiring to me was seeing you do that. So Neil, you hit the nail. I think that's exactly it. You have to take class. Because I actually said during certain shows, I'm a worse actor than I was in college because I was taking class all the time. So you have to stay in class.

[53:42] Dan Tracy: You got anything?

[53:43] Neil Haskell: I mean, I would have done a deep dive into So You Think You Can Dance, but we can do that another time.

[53:50] Joe Carroll: We could do that first. We're okay.

[53:52] Neil Haskell: We can like...

[53:54] Joe Carroll: No, it's okay.

[53:55] Neil Haskell: We should talk about So You Think You Can Dance.

[53:56] Joe Carroll: We can take a little dive and if you edit it in, you know.

[54:00] Dan Tracy: Okay, cool. All right. So I had seen like an episode or two of So You Think. That's what we call it as insiders. I'd seen like an episode or two in college. It was like the first season because I think there was a girl who had gone to my college who was on that season, something like that. And then I had seen like a couple video clips online. This is like right at the beginning of YouTube. So I wasn't even searching for these. So I'd seen a couple episodes or a couple dances. So I didn't really know what the show was. I never really wanted to be on a reality show because reality shows to me back then were like real world where they follow you around. It's very personal. That's what my idea of a reality show was. So my mom calls me and she was like, So You Think is auditioning in like tomorrow or the next day in New York. You should go. And I was like, no, it's dumb. And she was like, just go.

[55:01] Neil Haskell: How old were you then?

[55:01] Dan Tracy: 19.

[55:01] Neil Haskell: So it was like right after times changing?

[55:01] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[55:01] Neil Haskell: So this is like February after times are changing, which closed in like November.

[55:05] Dan Tracy: Got it. So me and a friend go to the theater space on 34th Street. Three o'clock in the morning, we get there. We're just like hanging out with people in line because that's apparently what you had to do back then was get somewhere at 3 a.m. to audition, which is hilarious. So we're sitting outside from like three until eight. I go in, I audition, whatever we had to do, you know, the pre screens and all this stuff. But I never really was like super interested in doing the show until like I was on the show.

[55:37] Neil Haskell: Right. Which is very odd and backwards because I just didn't know anything about the show. Probably seems so far fetched to you. Like there's thousands of people here and like, you know, I was very confident in my dancing skills at the time, but I was also like I didn't know what any what the show entailed. So I was like, whatever. It's that whole thing with like, if you don't know, it doesn't matter to you, you'll book it because it's like you don't put as much pressure on yourself.

[56:03] Dan Tracy: Right. But it was 100 percent zero pressure. But like as I was auditioning, I was like, oh, like, you know, I'll do it. You know, I'll go win it and then like move on with my life. That was like my mindset.

[56:14] Neil Haskell: You're the worst.

[56:15] Dan Tracy: I had a sliver of that confidence. But I was like only because I didn't know any different.

[56:20] Neil Haskell: Right. Cool. You know, like I was like, I wonder if I'm allowed to do it because I've been on Broadway and I'm professional. And they're like, yeah, we don't give a fuck. You're on Broadway for three weeks.

[56:30] Dan Tracy: Okay, cool, cool.

[56:30] Neil Haskell: You're on Broadway for three weeks. Cut to the Vegas round when I saw Danny Tidwell dance for the first time. He was incredible. And I looked I looked up on my I actually I texted my girlfriend at the time. I was like, hey, look up this guy on the Internet because, you know, I had a flip phone. So I couldn't look it up myself. And I was like, who is this guy? And she was like, oh, he's been in ABT and all the stuff. I was like, what? How is he allowed to audition? He's so good.

[57:00] Dan Tracy: Yeah. So I ended up like just like sort of just following him around and just watching what he did because I was so intrigued by his dancing. All I wanted to do was like do what he did. Right. And at one point on the show, we were we were roommates for like a couple of weeks on the show, which was like really interesting. I got to like pick his brain and we became like really, really, really good friends. And then when we toured together, we were we were hotel roommates and all that. Like we were like we're like best friends. And all I wanted to do was like be able to move like him. And I like I just like emulated him for like that entire year.

[57:34] Neil Haskell: Yeah. So it ended up and he ended up beating me. He came in second. I came in third. Yeah. Sabra came in first.

[57:40] Dan Tracy: Yeah. I'm not bitter about it.

[57:42] Neil Haskell: Not bitter about it. And then I mean, besides that, have you any connections from I mean, that that show provided so much exposure and so much cool stuff. But like other other connections like any choreographers that you worked with on that, that you're that you still work with or kept in touch with?

[57:58] Neil Haskell: Well, I think the most interesting thing about that would be not somebody I worked with, but somebody who saw me on the show was like, oh, will you do this project with me in New York? I'm choreographing for a benefit. It's unpaid, but it's two weeks. It'll be great. And that choreographer was Andy Blankenbuehler.

[58:16] Dan Tracy: Love it.

[58:16] Neil Haskell: And this is six months before he was like, I think they were about to do the out of town of nine to five in Los Angeles. And he was like, yeah, there's like this show I'm doing is like really cool. You'd be great in it. I don't know if there's a spot, but, you know, just I'm having like he he loved working with me in that in the benefit concert. And then six months later, when they're in, they were in tech for Broadway. And one of the guys in the show had put in his notice for the day after they opened, which was like six weeks notice. And they were like, oh, yeah, that's not going to work because he had gotten this incredible job in Vegas, I think. I don't know. And he put in his notice. And my understanding of the story is that he put in his notice and that day at lunch, they called him in and they were like, that's not going to work for us, you can actually leave today. And they fired him.

[59:15] Dan Tracy: Whoa.

[59:16] Neil Haskell: Yeah. And that night I get a call from my agent saying, hey, can you go in tomorrow and audition for the show? And I walked into the audition room and it was it was Andy Blankenbuehler, his assistant and one one other person auditioning. It was just a two person audition. And then Bernie, Bernie tells he was sitting at a table watching as well. And that other person was Twyla Tharp.

[59:42] Dan Tracy: Whoa.

[59:47] Neil Haskell: Yeah, wild audition at the beginning of the career. And so I auditioned for that at 11 a.m. Audition ended at one. And Bernie calls me back in the room. He was like, hey, you got the job, but first you have to go meet Joe Mantello at the theater and he has to, like, meet you and approve you. And I was like, the director.

[1:00:09] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[1:00:09] Neil Haskell: Wow. Like the director with a capital T. Like, yeah, he's like, he's the guy. He is the director. So I go to the theater. I meet him and he was like, cool, grab some lunch, hop up on stage at two. And so I started learning the show in four hours on stage in the middle attack. And I was also on the phone with my agents because I was like, I guess I need to put in my notice at Alterboys.

[1:00:36] Dan Tracy: Wow.

[1:00:37] Neil Haskell: Because you were doing it.

[1:00:38] Dan Tracy: I was doing Alterboys at the moment. And on the off-roadway contract, you get your notice, a nine day notice.

[1:00:48] Neil Haskell: Wow. So for those nine days, I did double duty. And then a week and a half later, I was out of Alterboys. I did Alterboys for a year. And a week and a half later, I was out of Alterboys. They were they were so thrilled. Like, I'm still homies with Michael, the guy, one of the guys who created it. All the guys were so thrilled. It was an amazing experience. And you would think leaving in nine days would be like a bad thing.

[1:01:15] Dan Tracy: Yeah, everybody would be pissed at you.

[1:01:15] Neil Haskell: Oh, my God. They were so thrilled. It was, at least my understanding, they were thrilled. They were extremely excited for me. And so, yeah, that was my connection with So You Think to Broadway was through Andy Blankenbuehler. And then now I've done three shows. I did 9 to 5, Bring It On, and now Hamilton with him. And it all started because I did this benefit for free. A free benefit concert. It was like an Elton John money raising thing.

[1:01:47] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[1:01:47] Neil Haskell: And yeah, it was unpaid, whatever. But it was like.

[1:01:51] Dan Tracy: Sometimes do the unpaid stuff.

[1:01:53] Neil Haskell: And you know who else danced in it was Lauren Lataro.

[1:01:56] Dan Tracy: Oh, no way.

[1:01:57] Neil Haskell: Yeah. Choreographer of Waitress.

[1:01:58] Dan Tracy: Choreographer of Waitress, who, yeah, I did American Idiot with. And then I ended up, she was trying to do a dance show in London. And I filmed it for her.

[1:02:08] Dan Tracy: Like behind the camera?

[1:02:11] Neil Haskell: Yeah. Like I have a video business.

[1:02:13] Dan Tracy: You're the DP?

[1:02:14] Neil Haskell: Yeah, I was the DP. And still like very much learning what I was doing at the time. And it looked awful compared to the stuff I do now. But then those connections, like me doing that work for her for very little money is part of the reason why I'm in Waitress now. I guess that would be like the other main advice that I would give to somebody coming to New York.

[1:02:32] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[1:02:33] Neil Haskell: Your first couple of years in New York, like don't take yourself too seriously. Right. And just do everything. Like, you know.

[1:02:41] Joe Carroll: Like make a podcast.

[1:02:43] Neil Haskell: Like make a podcast. Like, yeah. Whatever you have to do. Yeah. But like do whatever you have to do to make the connections and to meet the people and be a hard worker and like to make a good impression. Because people want to hire people they know and people they've worked with and people they're friends with.

[1:02:58] Dan Tracy: Right.

[1:02:58] Neil Haskell: So the best way to get in with somebody without having worked with them is to have volunteered for them or done something like I wouldn't recommend that like 15, 20 years into your career when like you're trying to raise a family or do things like that.

[1:03:12] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[1:03:12] Neil Haskell: When like money is more of a thing. But like when you're right out of college and you're spending $700 on rent and not, you know, whatever extraordinary number you're paying when you're 30 or whatever, you know, take like get a side job, get your day job, you know, do whatever you need to do. But also do the benefit concerts, do the free performances, whatever, just to get in with people.

[1:03:39] Dan Tracy: Totally.

[1:03:39] Neil Haskell: Meet the music directors. Meet the associates who are like going to be like rising up and doing things in five years when you're ready to be a leading man or whatever, you know.

[1:03:50] Dan Tracy: Yeah. I love that. Neil, thank you so much. This was awesome.

[1:03:53] Neil Haskell: This was so great. Thank you for taking the time.

[1:03:58] Dan Tracy: And for being here bright and early. And yeah, and I just want I love it. We didn't even get into any of the Cinderella stuff, which is totally fine. But like I this has happened the last couple of times we've done this. Like I get to know my friends even better just by throwing a microphone in front of them because I didn't know any of this stuff. And I love I love getting to talk with you. And what a run. And congratulations on King George in Hamilton.

[1:04:21] Neil Haskell: What tour is that? Where are you guys going?

[1:04:23] Dan Tracy: The Philip tour. We will be in my first shows in Oklahoma City and then Tulsa. And then we were doing a lot of Midwest and South or South Midwest and then a bit of Canada and then.

[1:04:34] Neil Haskell: Love it.

[1:04:35] Dan Tracy: Awesome. So go check out Neil Haskell's King George in Hamilton.

[1:04:38] Neil Haskell: Awesome.

[1:04:39] Dan Tracy: Thanks, Neil.

[1:04:40] Neil Haskell: Thanks, guys.

[1:04:41] Dan Tracy: Yeah. So that was Neil Haskell. Thank you so much for listening. Rate, subscribe, do all that stuff for us if you can. And we just want to say one more thing. Shout out to The Prom and Be More Chill that closed this past week. Two great shows, two wonderful pieces of theater gone way too soon. But check out those cast albums that will live forever.

[1:05:03] Joe Carroll: And yeah, you got anything else, Dan?

[1:05:06] Dan Tracy: Now, don't forget, if you send us questions and we answer your questions on the podcast, we're going to send you a care package. And Joe doesn't even know what's in it. Apparently you're getting a care package.

[1:05:15] Joe Carroll: Can I get a care package?

[1:05:16] Dan Tracy: No.

[1:05:16] Joe Carroll: All right, great.

[1:05:21] Dan Tracy: Don't need an umbrella.

[1:05:23] Joe Carroll: I stand under miniskirts.

[1:05:25] Dan Tracy: What?

[1:05:26] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I'm a boss. I don't care what the haters say.

[1:05:29] Dan Tracy: How many dudes can say they pick up girls all day?