This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Dan Tracy: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[0:02] Joe Carroll: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[0:04] Dan Tracy: This week we had planned on not having a show, out of respect for the Black Lives Matter movement and everything that's been going on in the news with George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and the countless other victims of police brutality.

[0:17] Joe Carroll: And we, you know, Dax Shepard and Armchair Expert, other shows have taken the week off.

[0:22] Dan Tracy: We thought that that was incredibly sort of the way to go.

[0:27] Joe Carroll: Um, and then Dan got a text.

[0:30] Dan Tracy: Uh, you know, we had been thinking, we'd been tossing around this idea of not having a show and kind of encouraging you all to go and find, um, you know, alternate sources of, um, information basically other than these two guys.

[0:46] Joe Carroll: Um, but we, we, which we will probably end up putting at the end of this episode anyway.

[0:51] Dan Tracy: I found some really great podcasts this week that have really opened up a lot of things for me, which I'd love to share.

[0:57] Joe Carroll: But, uh, Tyrone Davis Jr., who is a member of the Waitress closing company, um, and we worked together there for 18 months or so that I was there.

[1:09] Dan Tracy: He was protesting on Saturday afternoon, um, in Harlem and they, uh, and traversed through Harlem over to the east side to the FDR, and eventually he was, um, he was arrested by the police and taken into custody.

[1:27] Joe Carroll: And, uh, we at Waitress were able to really help support him and made sure that we were there financially for him as quickly as possible, but we were also basically trying to find him a lawyer, trying to get him out as quickly as possible, because as most of you realize it, we are in the middle of this pandemic where, you know, you don't want people kind of in an enclosed space for a long amount of time.

[1:55] Dan Tracy: So it was very important to us that he was not gonna be in jail until Monday morning or something like that.

[1:59] Joe Carroll: So we moved very quickly and, uh, Tyrone was very gracious in agreeing to come on the show and talk about his experience.

[2:09] Dan Tracy: He was with the show for about two and a half years. He covered Ogie, he's a wonderful, um, actor, singer. Uh, he's also very much, uh, in the activism space and he's educating, he's currently being educated as a, um, a sex counselor as well and, um, he's a super interesting guy, just a really interesting guy that's super complex, a lot of different things, uh, he's got going on, a very like well-rounded artist and definitely somebody that I've admired for a long time and he's taught me a lot of things and opened my eyes to a lot of issues so that you can have kind of a Broadway insider perspective firsthand of kind of what is going on.

[2:51] Joe Carroll: Uh, I don't know for everyone out there, but a lot of the images that I'm seeing are really difficult to see and a little brutal and we're not making as much space for the peaceful stories or getting the images of the kind of the large impact scale and scope and hope that this movement is carrying at this current moment and we were excited about the idea of him being able to bring that information to you all firsthand.

[3:19] Dan Tracy: Yeah, which we felt like he also so doesn't need to do. I mean, I think both every, every like white people need to go find their own sources of information now and, you know, find places, read books, get out, you know.

[3:33] Joe Carroll: We don't, you don't need to go and ask your black friend how they're feeling. That's not what this is about right now.

[3:40] Dan Tracy: And so we were like, he didn't need to come talk to us, and it was an incredibly, uh, generous use of his time. Um, and you know, there's so much more going on than a couple than our podcast talking about musicals, and but we thought that maybe, um, somebody more eloquent than us can shed some light.

[4:00] Joe Carroll: Um, and he, it was, it was a remarkable conversation. We just were kind of let him get, let him go and he takes us through his experience, um, as a young activist and, you know, and you know, as a member of the junior NAACP, uh, in Florida where he grew up, uh, all the way up until, uh, this current protest and it was just a great conversation.

[4:22] Dan Tracy: And so, yeah, I don't know. I'm a little bit at a loss for words now. I don't really know what to say.

[4:26] Joe Carroll: And I think that what I wanted to just read this one quick thing that I posted in to, I reposted the Instagram and we put it on the Guys Who Like Musicals page, but it's Daniel Watts, um, who is remarkable. He does, uh, the jam live on his Instagram story, and, uh, if you have not seen it, I highly, highly suggest it.

[4:45] Dan Tracy: But he posted this thing today that said, understand that some things may contradict. We hear this is directed at white people. Understand that some things may contradict. We want to hear from you and we want you to be quiet and listen. We want you to get out there and do something, and we think you've done enough. It's high time you learn to do double dutch. Black people are not a monolith. Everything that I just said will likely be contradicted by another black person, and that will be correct. So be ready.

[5:12] Joe Carroll: And I think that that just embodies all of this. We don't know what to say. You don't know what to do, but, um, listen, read, donate, and stay mad next week.

[5:24] Dan Tracy: That's right, exactly. Tyrone gets to that, and that was one of my favorite parts. Say something.

[5:28] Joe Carroll: Right. You don't have to say the right thing, but say something.

[5:30] Dan Tracy: Say something.

[5:34] Joe Carroll: And check on your family. Make sure they're saying, you know, make sure they're listening, you know. Don't check on your black friend.

[5:41] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[5:42] Joe Carroll: Ask your cousin how your cousin is.

[5:44] Dan Tracy: Right.

[5:44] Joe Carroll: And have a conversation with them.

[5:46] Dan Tracy: Right.

[5:47] Joe Carroll: Right. Because that's the work that we need to be doing. Um, and so enough of us. Uh, thank you for listening. Thank you for support. Um, we're gonna put a bunch of links at the end of the episode and in our Instagram, places to donate, places to get information. Um, and, uh, we thank you for hanging out with us.

[6:06] Dan Tracy: And, uh, we're super grateful to Tyrone. Let's hop in.

[6:10] Joe Carroll: So an actor is saying his lines, and then out of nowhere, he just starts singing.

[6:26] ♪ Musical number: "Don't Cry for Me" — performed by Tyrone Davis Jr. ♪

[6:39] Tyrone Davis Jr: Hey, how are you?

[6:43] Dan Tracy: I'm good, I'm good. Um, you know, it's been a heavy, heavy few weeks, heavy few months. Um, but the past week has been the heaviest. Um, but I'm okay. I'm safe and I'm alive and I'm well. How are you guys?

[7:01] Joe Carroll: You know, we've, we were on the phone today working on another project, and, uh, we spent the first half an hour just being like it's just so, it's just, you know, and it's, it, it's sad that it took us this long to admit how dark and sad it is, you know, and for us to all get into this place where we're all having this collective moment of sadness, but I just think like it's, it's really overwhelming the constant imaging and the constant, and, and it's good and it should be constant because that's, that's what we're dealing with, and I'm happy that this moment is happening, but you know, it's, it's really been really hard.

[7:35] Tyrone Davis Jr: And it's really how, I mean, I guess that's like the, I mean I, I have so many complex thoughts about social media and, and the benefits of it and the cons of it.

[7:47] Dan Tracy: Um, but it especially times like now, especially for black folks, it's the best thing and it's also the worst thing.

[7:54] Tyrone Davis Jr: Right. I know that I had to, um, I mean there were a few days where I had to stop engaging on social media, I had to stop looking at um the videos of deaths, and I had to stop looking at um, you know, terrible comments that people are writing in other people's posts.

[8:16] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[8:17] Tyrone Davis Jr: Just because it just became so much. Um, and I felt like I needed to protect my mind and my spirit, um, especially when it comes to, you know, the, the death, the watching the deaths is the toughest thing for me, but I think it's a thing that is like igniting change. Finally, we're seeing, we're seeing what goes down right with our own eyes.

[8:40] Dan Tracy: Right.

[8:40] Tyrone Davis Jr: Um, but the cost of that for me personally is that every time I see one of those videos, I see my dad, I see my brother, I see the people in my life that I love. I don't know if it is like a mind trick that's happening, but it, they literally look like my dad. Everyone I see. Um, and obviously they don't look like my dad, but I, but it's my, I don't know, it's my mind thing chicken. It's also just trauma. You know what I mean? It's like so at a certain point it's like I can't, I literally cannot watch this or, or I will not be able to function. Um, but at the same time, I'm glad everyone is seeing it.

[9:23] Dan Tracy: We should see it.

[9:24] Tyrone Davis Jr: Yeah. White folks should see it. We should all know what's going on. And I don't think we would be, um, at this critical, yet I would dare to call it exciting moment had it not been for um the, the, the past few things that we've seen online, you know, the deaths and also the Amy Cooper, uh, situation, which I think really shocked white people.

[9:53] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[9:54] Tyrone Davis Jr: Every black person has been in that situation, but I think a lot of white folks were like, what? She would, she would really do that? And it's like, yeah.

[10:02] Dan Tracy: Um, that's real.

[10:04] Tyrone Davis Jr: And it, and it, it increased the conversation to not just being about this like violence. It was, it was making us all aware in the same moment that it's, it's also super small and it's also super large scale. It's violence and then it's microaggressions, and both are just as evil, and they happened at the same time to kind of like frame the whole thing for us. You know.

[10:27] Joe Carroll: Um, yeah, I mean where do you want to start?

[10:34] Tyrone Davis Jr: Do you wanna, do you wanna, I just wanted to say first of all, thank you for talking to us. It's kind of the, it's the last thing in the world you need to be doing right now.

[10:43] Dan Tracy: And, um, I just, uh, we really appreciate it and I know that our listeners appreciate it.

[10:48] Tyrone Davis Jr: So it's actually, it's actually start, you know. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. But it's actually this is sort of my like saying, like I loved if I can talk about race, um, especially to white people. It's not every black person saying it, it can get exhausting. But I like to do it because it's like when else can we do it? And now we can do it. You know what I mean? And white folks are open to it.

[11:12] Dan Tracy: Um, it's also a way for me to make sure that the white folks are getting the right information. You know what I mean? Like yes, go educate yourself, but I want to check the homework. Let me see.

[11:25] Tyrone Davis Jr: You need to sign off on the primary check in the footnotes.

[11:29] Dan Tracy: Exactly.

[11:30] Tyrone Davis Jr: Um, yeah, of course. But you know, you've been, you've been engaged in s in social activism and in, uh, you know, you started the social justice book club at Waitress, which is like a lot of, a lot of the learning that I feel like I've done in the last year is because of you and because of your ability to sit there patiently with me and have conversations where I don't understand the limitations on my thinking around these issues and you've helped open my mind.

[12:00] Dan Tracy: Did you always, were you always like that as a kid? Was there something that made you interested in activism?

[12:03] Tyrone Davis Jr: I have always sort of been into, I, I mean I guess my first experience with like official activism was that my mom, she, um, my parents are not, I wouldn't call them political or woke or anything. They're just like, you know, poor immigrants. Um, but, uh, obviously there was a lot of talk of race in the house just because of existing in the US, you know, with skin of color like you're gonna talk about race. Um, uh, uh, but then she also, my mom was great. She always, she, she put me and I don't think it was because of political reasons, I think it was just to give me something to do on Saturday morning, but she put me in, um, a youth, the Miami youth chapter of the NAACP. Um, yeah, I don't, I think I might have been maybe like 10, nine or 10 or 11 around there when I started.

Um, but that, that was sort of my first brush with activism and we would listen to, you know, the speeches of Malcolm X and Dr. King and, um, you know, all the greats and we would learn all the protest chants and we would go protest and we would talk about race and how it affected our lives as young kids and, and, um, in Miami and I, I think, you know, one of my very first trips that I took outside of Miami or outside of Florida was, um, uh, they took me to, uh, the national NAACP convention which was in Pittsburgh and I got, I got to hear like Coretta Scott King speak and I, you know, um, like I saw, um, Maya Angelou speak and I, you know, it was, it was a really, uh, really cool experience. Um, so that was, that was my, I guess my intro to activism.

[14:03] Tyrone Davis Jr: Yeah, but that was over. Since then I've been like in it thinking about, um, yeah, social justice, thinking about the world in a larger way, thinking about my role in the world, my responsibility as a citizen with some privileged privileges. And so yeah. I suppose there is no explanation needed for why you felt compelled to protest this weekend. I think thousands, hundreds of thousands of us, in fact, it's been reported. Some groups in every single state in the US and in cities all over the world, Paris, Australia, um, people are going out. But what, um, I heard from Jesse Hooker Bailey that you were thinking about sitting this one out for a couple days, and then you were compelled to go. What, uh, you know, what was your thinking there, and what was your plan for the day, and how did this day get started for you?

Um, so yeah, so actually, yeah, so what I meant by sitting this one out, I meant so on social media. Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah, because as I said, social media can get a little crazy making around times like this, and I know I didn't need to protect my mind. Um, however, I will never sit out of a rally or a protest or something, um, active to do. Um, so I was, you know, uh, limiting my social media, but I was, um, I did plan to go to some protests, and so it was a Saturday, and um, my boyfriend Sean and I, uh, we had saw that there was a protest, and I was like, hey, do you want to go to the specialist today? Um, and it turns out, uh, Stacy, um, and Stacey McCleskey, uh, was also going, and Kristen Lloyd, uh, came with us, and Tiffany Mann and a few other people.

And so we all went down on Harlem. I have gone to many rallies and many protests, and I imagine this one being, um, exactly how others have been. Um, and for the most part it was, but it wasn't until I was there and could sort of feel, um, the energy of the crowd where it felt like, oh, this is big. This is huge. This is big. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And actually I think that's the thing. Um, I think that's the thing about, uh, uh, uh, going to a rally, uh, versus, um, being socially active on it on, uh, uh, on social media. When you go out into the streets, you get a fuller sense of who is out there, how big the thing is. You also get a fuller sense of, um, all of the vast wide range of emotion, um, that people are carrying with them.

I think on the news you really only see anger, you see the violence, you see the rage. But actually it in rallies, there's like a whole, like people are laughing, people are dancing, people are singing, people are hugging, people are joking, as well as outrage and crying. Um, and for me, I think that is the thing that I'm sort of addicted to with rallies. It like puts you in the space with other people who are like-minded and who share in your grief and your pain and your joy and your happiness. Um, and so we went to this rally, you know, we took to the street, we were walking down Adam Clayton Powell, marching down up Adam Clayton Powell from 125th, and you know, chanting, no justice, no peace, all the chants, and you know, meanwhile, there's like people cheering us on from their apartments and FedEx guys like cheering us on and like construction workers cheering us on and drivers like, you know, waving at us and honking their horns from the street, um, which is like really special.

Um, yeah, so we're marching, marching on Adam Clayton Powell, we turn left on 111th, I believe, to go all the way east. We get all the way east, we come to a barrier, um, which is connected to the FDR. And, um, you know, uh, this is the point where, you know, protesters decide if we're gonna take over the FDR, are we gonna stop traffic on the FDR too? And the answer is yes. We are, we are gonna, we are to be seen, we're gonna get a message heard, we're gonna disrupt business as usual. Um, so we get on the FDR, we're marching up, um, you know, have my fist up, and you know, people have their signs, and at one point I look back behind me, and maybe about a half a mile behind me, there's a drove of cops on bicycles on the FDR.

Um, and I remember I'm, you know, so naive in ways. I remember thinking, oh my gosh, that's so nice. They're like escorting us out of the FDR to make sure we're safe and we can get our message, matter, cop, yeah. And not, not within like 30 seconds, they like dove in right in front of me, all swarmed in and just started grabbing people. And so he, you know, he gets off his bike and he's like, don't resist, don't resist, don't resist, and grabs my hands, and that moment, the fear of like felt, which is a fear that, you know, every person of color feels when they have to engage with a cop in this country. It's just like, is this the, is this the day? Is this the time? Is this my end? Um, and, and I, you know, and it was just so crazy because we're on the fucking FDR.

There's like hundreds and hundreds of protesters lined up alongside it. I'm handcuffed being held by this cop, and I was like, I it's hard to explain what I was feeling because there was I was feeling so much, but I was like, oh gosh, what if the crowd gets like rowdy and the cop gets nervous and accidentally shoots me? What if he slips a gun in my back pocket and tries to like frame me? Like every, anything that you could think of, I was thinking in. Um, and it's just like even now I can, I can still feel that feeling of like what's happening. And I, I became like very calm, very still. I didn't want to make any sudden moves because I didn't want him to freak out. I turned to Sean, my boyfriend.

I was like, take your camera out, record this in case anything happens, and then within 10 seconds, he was also getting handcuffed. Um, but yeah, so there I am, handcuffed on the FDR next to the East River, and on the other side of us, hundreds of protesters crying out for our relief. Let them go, let them go. Kristen Lloyd at one point like stood on top of the barrier and was like, Tyrone Davis Jr., let him go. Say his name. Tyrone Davis Jr. And the crowd's like, saying my name. This is dramatic. Very fucking. We're dramatic to people and they have a dramatic job. But this is, it is dramatic. Wow. Exactly. This is drama. Drama at its highest. So were you just to just to pause for one second?

How did you get into a place where they swerved in front of you and took you, like singled out the group of people that was that you were, you know what I mean? Like was that bad luck? Like, how did you get kind of blocked in there? I, I guess for whatever reason I was like in front of the crowd that was like on the FDR. So there was some, most of the crowd was on the street, obeying the law, and then there's the rest of us on the highway. Um, and I was sort of in front of that, and um, and that's how they sort of didn't like, you know, grabbed me first. Um, but it, but you know, they, so a bunch of people got arrested that day. I remember there was like just like really sad. This like really old guy was out there with us.

I was like, how did you even get over the barrier? He was like very like feeble. I, he had to be in his like 70s, and they arrested him, and you know, sitting in the jail cell with him. He's like, I'm nervous because my wife needs assistance and I'm not there, she's not gonna know where I am. I was like, oh god, get him out of here. There was also like a really young black girl that I rec, she was only like 15 that we were like super worried about. Um, but yeah, they, they grabbed a bunch of us, we were, you know, on the highway. Meanwhile, Stacey and Kristen, they're like filming the whole thing. I think they were like live on Instagram or Facebook or whatever. Yeah. Um, yeah, and they're like yelling, what's your mom's phone number?

We're gonna call your mom. What's your phone's number? I'm yelling my mom's phone number over the highway. All very dramatic. Um, and, and so yeah, so we're arrested. They, they put us in the paddy wagon. They don't tell us why we're arrested. They don't take anything, they don't say where we're going, but you know, put us in the paddy wagon and we just start heading downtown and they end up taking us to one police plaza which is, um, you know, the jail, um, where they, where they brought everyone in and way downtown. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so you know, I'm getting my mug shot I'm having to remove, um, the laces from my shoes. I'm having to get, you know, searched for weapons. Um, meanwhile we're in the, the global pandemic of the coronavirus and we're all being, you know, shoved into a small jail cell herded with a bunch of people.

Some people, for whatever reason, there were a couple of us that had their masks. I was lucky enough to keep mine, but most of the people had their masks taken away. Um, and so we're there, um, in jail literally in jail, um, and, uh, what was sort of nice about it was that, uh, we were all like protesters so there was a nice sort of like light vibe, uh, sort of a spirited vibe of like, yeah, we're in, we're in here because we, we're out there protesting so that was cool just to like sit in solidarity with the other people who had been arrested in the jail. So, um, but yeah, uh, so we're sitting there hours and hours and hours. Um, at one point I am released. I think I was in there maybe at like four hours, but not, not too long.

Um, but I got out, Sean was still left in there, my boyfriend. Um, and so once I got out, I, you know, sat on the curb, relaced my shoes, you know, opened my phone to all of these like messages. Um, I mean, I'm literally still getting messages and like people donating to our court fees and I mean it's really quite overwhelming because I guess you don't know how much people care for you, how much, um, community will show up for you until, uh, something crazy happens to you. Um, and so that, that was really overwhelming and I mean I know I don't know what to say beautiful and lovely and, um, you know, it, it almost makes me want to cry when I think about it. Um, but um, yeah, that was cool. Uh, met up with Stace, Stacey and Tiffany and, uh, Krista and they, they were down there waiting for our release, and so I met up with them, they, they got me some food.

Then we had to wait for Sean. So Sean didn't end up getting released until maybe like four and a half more hours. So we just waited there in what they called jail support, which I didn't know was a thing, but, um, outside of the gates of jail where people are being released, um, there is sort of like a setup called jail support where random volunteers and strangers and, you know, little organizations come and they, um, are there to support you and to welcome you back, you know, from jail. So they, they have everything you need. They have food and, um, drinks and cigarettes if you smell, they have legal assistance. There's, there's a street medic there to help you out if you have any injuries, which I believe some people did.

Not so I went back down to help out on the day after I was released, and there were some guys who had been beaten because they said they were, you know, beat up. Um, so a street medic was like needed. Um, but yeah, they have everything. There's this woman who, um, was so kind, she like took me to her literal own apartment to let me use her restroom. She made dumplings and brought them back for the crowd. So it's, it's a really beautiful, um, vibe there outside of the jail, jail, uh, you know, in, in jail support. Uh, just people there welcoming you and, and I, I guess I, I'd like to talk about that because we don't see that another thing we don't see in the news, just how supportive, um, and how much care, um, is out there as well.

[27:27] Tyrone Davis Jr: You know, protesting is not only, you know, yelling in the streets, it's that's actually smaller forms of care and love that goes on unreported. Um so yeah, so that happened, and then we went home and tried to come to terms and process with the fact that we were in jail. Um I think it's actually something that I'm still sort of like processing and thinking about and you know because um I don't know, it's a weird thing, but also, you know, if I'm gonna go to jail, I'm glad it's for this. Um and I also I guess I want to bookend that too with like um, you know, a lot of people are reaching out and saying, "Oh, you're such courageous, oh you're a hero, you're here," which I appreciate, but I'm a little uncomfortable with that because this is small, small, small potatoes.

Um you know, when you look at it aside, the things that people are having to go through. I'm lucky that I even made it to the jail cell and that a police officer didn't put a knee on my neck, you know what I mean? Or I'm lucky that I don't have life imprisonment for something that I didn't do, you know, the tragedy of mass incarceration. There's people a lot more courageous than I, a lot more brave and heroic than I am. So I do want to put that out there. Um but it was an experience. I wouldn't change it. I would do exactly the same thing again. And um yeah, I'm happy to be safe and well.

[29:18] Dan Tracy: Amen. Yeah, no, you know, when this all was going down, uh Stacy called Jesse and Jesse got a little bit scared and messaged our Waitress group thread pretty quickly, and we all were trying to figure out kind of how to help, but feeling pretty powerless, which is, you know, uh kind of one of the things is like if we're not out there, so then what can we do? Um it's interesting to hear that, you know, jail support is a thing that people can do kind of if you don't have, you know, these volunteering opportunities or things that people can do to kind of support what's happening if you don't have money to give or if you don't have time to give for whatever reason if you can't be out during the, you know, because we are dealing with a pandemic too.

That's one of the things that's the most jarring about the whole experience is that like everybody knows they're putting their lives on the line. Yeah, but it needs to be done. It needs to be done, and I think it speaks volumes that people are willing to get coronavirus rather than see another black death on Instagram. It's a remarkable notion that maybe the coronavirus and the pandemic will be the awakening that this movement has needed for so long. People are sitting around watching their phones and watching the news, and it's like, it's like, yeah, well, the only reason that you know about this is because we all have cameras on our phones now. You know, and so you know, know that, but it's also maybe this is what the world needed in a weird way.

[31:00] Tyrone Davis Jr: There's no excuse. I can't go have, you know, my weekend, although some people are doing this, you know, I'm not going to my weekend brunch. You know, I'm kind of like at home looking at this coverage because that's what's happening, you know. Distracted. I can't, I'm not, you know, on the grind, I'm not going out of dishes, I'm not, yeah, you know.

[31:17] Dan Tracy: Yeah, agree. And you know, it is sad that it's taken that long, but it does seem like this is this one's a bit different. Do you feel that way? Do you think like this could be different?

[31:27] Tyrone Davis Jr: It's probably hard for you to even say that because it's like one of those things where you just, you know, we've seen this happen over and over and we keep letting everyone down. We meaning, you know, the systems in place that kind of need to change.

[31:41] Dan Tracy: Right. I appreciate you saying that, especially as a white person because I, you know, I mean it's easy to just have a very well-meaning optimism about right now and heck I definitely feel more optimistic than I have in the past, but you never know. I mean just personally I do feel like it's different. I mean since I've been on earth this has been the most large uprising that I've seen for black life. This has been the most expressive, um, the I've seen white people be in support of black life, which gives me hope. Like just to see, I mean it's all very complex and complicated but seeing white folks say black lives matter, posting things that they're learning, talking about it, people that I've never seen like anything about race or politics, people who I'd wished I could have had conversations with in the past about race, right, are now talking about it.

Now whether it's wet, whether it lives past social media, whether it lives past whenever, you know, this all, you know, is done, um that that's another story, but I will take it. I will take something over nothing.

[33:20] Tyrone Davis Jr: I hate the term woke because it signifies that there's like an end to the education. Um but I but I'm gonna use it anyway. But I um engaging with white folks who are sort of on at the beginnings of their journeys of wokeness are grappling with, oh, you know, so many things. There's guilt. There's um how do I do this? There's weird feelings of like, oh I've never spoken about race before. It feels inauthentic to do it now. There's fear that I might say the wrong thing. There's all of these things. Um and I want to say to those people yes and keep going. Don't don't let fear, don't let saying the wrong thing stop you right from speaking out. Your voice is necessary in this movement and I will take it. I rather you say something and fuck it up and I have to fix it than you remaining silent.

[34:21] Dan Tracy: Um which is cool. And then we're at a place too where like white folks whether they're just performing it or sincere about it, white folks are listening.

[34:32] Tyrone Davis Jr: Right. Which is like new, you know? I can literally say the things that I've always wanted to say to white people about how their behavior is affecting me or how their behavior is affecting the Broadway community or the world. And people are listening. I don't know, I've never experienced that before on this large of a scale. So I find that extremely exciting and extremely hopeful and I hope it does go beyond um, you know, whenever this all goes down.

[35:09] Dan Tracy: Um yeah. So we've taken up a good amount of your time and w uh before we go, we uh our guys like musicals has made a few donations and tried to do a few things to try and help. Um but is there, you know, I know now that there's an interesting community of my white friends kind of coming together and we're messaging back and forth trying to figure out the things that we can do actively because we don't want to put that burden on our friends of color, and I've learned that that's kind of what we need to be doing. But is there any recommendations that you might have, places that you might look to, any advice for people who want to like help?

[35:49] Tyrone Davis Jr: For sure. I've the two organizations that have been on my mind lately because they were at jail support were um so the one being a national lawyers guild. Yeah, they're there at jail support and they provide legal assistance for people who've been arrested for protesting or speaking out for wanting to make change of the role. So I'm and they were super kind and super lovely um after I was released. So I'm really loving them right now. And then there's also Free Them All For Public Health, which um they too are doing some organizing for jail support and they bring out, you know, food and water and donuts and coffee and all and anything that you can think of, masks and hand sanitizers and all that good stuff. Um and so I'm really loving them right now too. So those are two, those are the two that could use some love.

[36:44] Dan Tracy: Awesome. Tyrone, thank you so much for coming on and telling us your story. I really appreciate it. You have a beautiful way of kind of framing things in a positive way that makes like, you know, I think a lot of what's going on and what happened to you is like unfair and unjust and brutal, but the way you're able to frame it in such a beautiful way that just I appreciate your spirit and your energy and yeah, and just, you know, your light because I think that you've inspired a lot of people in the Waitress family, and you will inspire a lot of people further in your career to be better, and I thank you for that.

[37:25] Tyrone Davis Jr: Thank you. I really appreciate that. And thanks for having me. And thanks for holding space for a black voice during these tense critical times. So thank you.

[37:35] Dan Tracy: Absolutely. Hey everybody, thank you for listening to this week's episode. Um thank you for sticking with us here to the end. If you're here now, you may be looking for some resources to help you to challenge some of your own thinking and to open your mind to some new perspectives, and so we wanted to take time to provide you with some of those resources. We hope that you'll consider taking some time to listen to some of these things or to read some of these things and do our part in making the world a better place for everyone.

[38:17] Dan Tracy: So uh here's our list. You can check out the 1619 Project. It's a podcast and written form that was put out by the New York Times, and that is an incredibly valuable resource for some of the historical context for what's happening that isn't really covered in most history books. Spotify has put out a bunch of playlists for podcasts you can listen to, and one of the ones that we've checked out recently is called Code Switch, it's put out by NPR. There's another one called Left Right Center, which I posted to my Instagram stories, and why I think that that's so valuable is because they have journalists on the left and journalists on the right. Not that there's only two sides, but that these two people with opposing viewpoints are kind of having conversations about these issues.

And if you're somebody who feels like they are in contrast to the people around you and that your viewpoints are different, it may be helpful in opening your mind and how to have more productive conversations with those people.

[39:25] Dan Tracy: White Fragility is a book that I was introduced to because of Tyrone and the Social Justice Book Club, and that really opened my eyes to some of the inherent unconscious bias that I have and that I had because of where I grew up and how I was raised and the world in which we live. And um, I think our friends of color are imploring us to challenge our thinking and to open our minds to different perspectives, and um this is a really good resource for that. Again, if you have any other suggestions of things we should read or things we should watch or things we should listen to, don't hesitate to reach out. I think it's a really important time that white allies come together and create a coalition to encourage each other to be better and to learn and to think more critically about the systems as they exist today, and we hope that you'll join us in that fight. Thanks for listening.