This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Dan Tracy: Give me one second. I just took a bite of this bar.

[0:02] Joe Carroll: No, the interview started, Dan.

[0:04] Dan Tracy: It started.

[0:06] Joe Carroll: Nobody wants to listen to me at all.

[0:08] Dan Tracy: Yes, yes, they do.

[0:10] Joe Carroll: This is it. This is what life is like at 2 p.m. on a Wednesday. Dan's eating and Brie.

[0:22] De'Lon Grant: Oh my god. That sounds horrible.

[0:24] Joe Carroll: That sounds horrible.

[0:28] Dan Tracy: I think we're off to a really good start. This is a really professional movie.

[0:32] Joe Carroll: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals. Welcome to welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals. De'Lon Grant, I'm so happy you're here. I'm sorry that you had to listen to Dan's heavy breathing and chewing, but that's basically what this show is.

[0:44] De'Lon Grant: No, kind of. Was his yes and his ASMR moment?

[0:47] Dan Tracy: Um, that's right. I still don't understand.

[0:49] Joe Carroll: No, no, no, Tino shade to those who do really get down with ASMR, but I haven't really gotten into it.

[0:54] De'Lon Grant: I don't know what it is really.

[0:56] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I don't. I don't either.

[0:58] De'Lon Grant: I don't either, you know.

[1:00] Joe Carroll: But you know what you do know a lot about is Come From Away the musical.

[1:04] De'Lon Grant: Nice. So I would like to talk about some Come From Away the musical. I'd like to talk about Providence, Rhode Island. I'd like to talk about the University of Freaking Michigan. Boom. And we're gonna talk about musicals.

[1:15] Joe Carroll: Yes.

[1:15] De'Lon Grant: So an actor is saying his lines, and then out of nowhere, he just starts singing.

[1:27] Joe Carroll: With the sound of Jimmy.

[1:31] De'Lon Grant: Don't cry for me.

[1:41] Joe Carroll: De'Lon, thank you for being here. Um, okay, so lots to cover. But first of all, this movie.

[1:50] De'Lon Grant: There was a movie.

[1:51] Joe Carroll: Yes.

[1:52] De'Lon Grant: You were filming a movie.

[1:53] Joe Carroll: Yes.

[1:54] De'Lon Grant: And it just ended. So take us through this. What happened?

[1:57] De'Lon Grant: Come From Away the film. It's, uh, we randomly just got an email from the producers. Um, that we were gonna—they wanted to shoot a film. Uh, and it's not our producer specifically, it's another production company. Um, and um, I won't go into all the missed it, Joe. Joe, we could have done it. That could have been us.

[2:21] Joe Carroll: Oh, shooting it. You mean you could have—

[2:24] De'Lon Grant: Yes.

[2:26] Joe Carroll: How do we get into the Pro Shot game?

[2:28] De'Lon Grant: Is it a pro shot?

[2:30] Joe Carroll: What is a pro shot?

[2:30] De'Lon Grant: Pro shot is what the fans call it when like you film the stage version without any other bells and whistles. Like it's kind of think, uh, I guess Hamilton is a pro shot, but it's like a pro shot on steroids. Really, a pro shot is like the Into the Woods movie.

[2:46] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[2:47] De'Lon Grant: The original Into the Woods movie?

[2:49] Joe Carroll: Yes, okay.

[2:50] De'Lon Grant: The Into the Woods on stage. The only one.

[2:52] Joe Carroll: Sorry, the other one I don't even count.

[2:54] De'Lon Grant: Yeah.

[2:58] Joe Carroll: The feature, yeah.

[2:58] De'Lon Grant: No, that doesn't count.

[2:59] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah.

[3:00] De'Lon Grant: Um, was it so was it that style? Did you just do the show and the show was recorded?

[3:04] De'Lon Grant: No, no, it was, uh, it was a pro shot. Yeah, it was, um, uh, I think it's the same company that did Hamilton actually, um, which I still haven't watched, um, because I haven't watched much theater on TV because I thought it would recognize it.

[3:19] Joe Carroll: Makes you sad.

[3:20] De'Lon Grant: Yeah.

[3:21] Joe Carroll: Um, it made me sad. Watching that Hamilton that recording just made me—it made me sad.

[3:25] De'Lon Grant: We got done. Well, I thought it was wonderfully done, but it actually just—I also auditioned for it like seven to nine times. So I was like, you know what? I'm gonna just gonna hold off on that. I'm a lot of emotions around that. So, um, but uh, but yeah, it was so cool. It was, I mean, for a multitude of reasons, you know, none of us were really working. Some of us were doing film and TV stuff here and there, but um, it was an opportunity to bring the show back, you know.

[3:51] De'Lon Grant: Um, and, uh, yeah, totally different experience. I mean, it's the same show, you know what I mean? But, but, um, you know how film goes, it's start and stop. So, you know, we ran it and then we like kind of started and stopped and got the coverage that they needed. Um, didn't see too much of what they were shooting. Um, but from what our, you know, our crew was saying, um, as they're watching the monitors, uh, they're really excited. So I'm stupid excited. Um, I still haven't—it hasn't sunk in what it means. You—we were just talking about Into the Woods, and another cast member was like, yo, we just made like theater history, like we're gonna be the movie that kids watch when they're, you know, and kids, you know. Um, and I was like, my mind was blown. I just was kind of so happy to be working. I was like, yeah, whoa, whoa, it's so cool.

[4:41] Joe Carroll: That's yeah, that's a bucket list moment for all of us for sure.

[4:44] De'Lon Grant: Yeah, totally. And you were saying it just kind of came out of nowhere. You got a random email and they were like, we want to do this, and then they sent you a SAG-AFTRA contract and you had to like figure that all out.

[4:55] De'Lon Grant: Yeah, yeah. It was like, you know, there was negotiations back and forth um with, uh, with the production company and um trying to figure out, uh, whose jurisdiction it was, you know, is it equity? Is it SAG? Uh, they split it because, you know, um, everyone wants money, you know. Um, and um, yeah, that part of things was a little weird just because, I mean, I don't know, they're just different rules, you know, and have between the two unions and, and, and, uh, negotiations and all that, or well, not negotiations, but I forget what do you call it. Um, it's like when, uh, like stage managers aren't repped in SAG, right? But they are equity, and so like who—what jurisdiction do they fall under?

How do they get paid? So it was a lot of back and forth, uh, with that kind of contract stuff, which, um, you know, money is never comfortable. Um, not specifically this show, but I always get like hot on the collar, you know. I'm like, uh, I just want to make sure that like everything's fair and copacetic. Um, it was, it was, you know, uh, it was fantastic, actually. Um, again, just to be working and to have that check clear on Thursday. I was like, thank you, Jason.

[6:08] Joe Carroll: Oh my god. Right. When did they—when did they email you? When did they start? I mean, I'm sure they've been talking about doing the movie for a while, but when did they reach out to you to do the movie?

[6:18] De'Lon Grant: Um, it was a collective email that they sent to all of us. They were like, uh, basically just interest, you know. Um, because I think our producers were, were rightly concerned, um, about COVID, you know, and they took a lot of precautions. You know, we stayed, we all lived for in a hotel in Midtown for three weeks together, you know.

[6:36] Joe Carroll: Wow.

[6:36] De'Lon Grant: Um, and we rehearsed in the hotel and then we went to, um, then we like, you know, shot in the theater and stuff.

[6:44] Joe Carroll: So, um, yeah, so do they—I have a question about that, but do they have distribution plans yet? Do you know where it's gonna live?

[6:51] De'Lon Grant: Um, yes, I, um, I'm not sure what I'm so—what I'm supposed to say or what I'm not supposed to say, but that announcement is out. So I think that's totally okay that Apple Plus bought it.

[7:03] Joe Carroll: Um, great.

[7:04] De'Lon Grant: Yeah, yeah. I think I'm pretty sure that's okay to say just because the announcements deadline or something.

[7:10] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah, okay.

[7:11] De'Lon Grant: Yeah. Um, and I mean, whatever. Uh, I, um, I don't know. With this stuff, it's kind of like what can we say or not say, guys, we are people know social media. There was like a post of us going into the theater and all this stuff, right? It's out there though, and just let people be excited, you know what I mean?

[7:28] Joe Carroll: Right, totally. So you're living in a hotel for three weeks with your cast members. Was it like summer camp or was it like what happens when I want to punch Joe in the face?

[7:36] De'Lon Grant: Daniel, uh, all of the above. Um, no, it was absolutely like summer camp. And you know, I'm still in that, you know, the haze of like especially theater summer camp. You know, when you go to theater summer camp, we're all like little dorks at school.

[7:50] De'Lon Grant: Camp Broadway USA in Providence, Rhode Island, Dylan. That was my shit.

[7:55] Joe Carroll: No, which works Blue Lake Fine Arts Camp in Northern Michigan.

[8:00] De'Lon Grant: I went to, uh, um, cherubs in northeastern, uh, uh, question, excuse me. Um, you know, you're dorks at home and you come to theater camp and you're fucking everything—everyone's interested and, and you know, studious, you know what I mean, and like working hard. Um, and then you leave and you feel so full from the experience, and you leave, and there's like a haze of days where you're like, oh, what not only what am I doing with myself, but like that's, uh, um, that fills me up. That fills my cup, you know.

[8:29] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[8:29] De'Lon Grant: Um, and you know, the context of the pandemic is also, uh, uh, factors into that. But yes, summer camp, you know. Um, we all could be on, uh, outside on the roof without masks, which was like because most everyone was vaccinated. So that felt awkward for a few days, right? I'm—I haven't been around, I live alone, so I haven't been around, you know, more than three people at once, you know.

[8:56] Joe Carroll: Um, so, uh, that was surreal and also felt so normal and beautiful. Um, also like living in a hotel, you know. I toured forever, which brought back a little bit of PTSD of living.

[9:03] De'Lon Grant: For sure. I can totally relate to that.

[9:09] Joe Carroll: And the weird part is you walk into the hotel room and part of you feels like home.

[9:13] De'Lon Grant: Yes.

[9:14] Joe Carroll: I think that's the weirdest thing.

[9:15] De'Lon Grant: Yes.

[9:15] Joe Carroll: It's like I lived in a hotel for three years. So whenever I walk into a hotel, I'm like, oh, this is my—this is my house now.

[9:21] De'Lon Grant: It's like, no, it's not your house.

[9:23] Joe Carroll: Funny, I was, uh, I exactly—I toured for three and a half years, and Mike was just like, oh, I know how this goes, you know. Um, and I was FaceTiming with a friend, and, uh, he was like, everything is unpacked. He's like, oh, when I go on vacation, I was like, I'm not on vacation. I was like, I'm in a hotel, but I'm not on vacation. I was like, the first thing I did on tour was unpack everything, like make yourself feel like you live there, you know, uh, for mental health sake, you know.

[9:51] De'Lon Grant: Um, yeah, it was, it was, uh, the hotel part of it was, uh, was cool. It was weird looking outside and not being able to walk outside because that's how I've kind of sustained my, um, my contact with the world, just living alone. I really didn't—we couldn't go anywhere, you know.

[10:05] Joe Carroll: Um, so walking out daily geriatric walks, as I call them, uh, were kind of my status quo every day.

[10:13] De'Lon Grant: And so what—watching people walk outside, I was like, I feel like I'm in prison a little bit, but um, someone called it Martha Stewart prison and I died. I was like, nice prison.

[10:27] Joe Carroll: Could you like—was there like a gym or food? Like what'd you guys do for food? Did you just like Postmates every day?

[10:32] De'Lon Grant: No, they actually had a service that they—that was provided for us. I think the hotel provided it, um, which was good quality food, you know. Um, I'm a big dude, so I needed like two dinners, you know. Um, you know I also haven't been moving so you're like using all this energy all of a sudden again and you're starving, you know, but um, so there was some late night like Thai Chinese ordering situations that happened.

[10:59] De'Lon Grant: But yeah, there was also a gym, uh, but we had to like—because of COVID protocols they had to—we had to sign up for it, uh, and, uh, I got impatient with like, uh, what time am I supposed to go? You know, what—it's three weeks I've already gained 20 pounds just leave it, just you'll let it immortalize itself on camera. My gut's actually pretty big, so it looked—I looked okay. I was like, I'm gonna be all right, I'm gonna be all right.

[10:59] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, that's amazing.

[10:59] De'Lon Grant: Great. Yeah, that was like—like Will Smith posted this thing the other day where he was like, this—I am in the worst shape of my life, um, and I just totally—I was like, me too, man. I see you and I appreciate you. And then he came up with something, but he was like, no, this body got me through the pandemic though, right? You know, there was like something like—like so forever you will have—you have what you will have captured Come From Away in the middle of a pandemic. You'll watch it, you know what I mean? Like you'll have that experience watching it and being like, oh my god, I can't—I can't believe where we were when we did this, right? Um, you know, it was just crazy. I mean, was it—it had to have been emotional. Was it just incredibly emotional to be back in a theater and to be with that—those people that you had spent—that cast that you had spent two and a half years with?

[10:59] De'Lon Grant: Oh man, um, yeah, you can imagine it. It wasn't—it was so intense. The first, you know, our first read sing-through, you know, we were a wreck, you know.

[12:22] Joe Carroll: Um, I can only imagine.

[12:24] De'Lon Grant: Oh god, and our show is just—it's, it's um, we don't lean into the emotion. I think that's kind of one of the many gifts or or the m, uh, magical parts of our show. We kind of just plow through the moments to get through, you know. Um, you have the experience, we're not having the experience for the audience, you know. Um, but when we did that first read-through, I mean, especially toward the end, we were just, uh, a wreck, you know.

[12:48] Joe Carroll: And then we—

[12:48] De'Lon Grant: We got to the theater and like, you know, that was a whole different experience, you know, because I'm really good friends with my dresser. Most of us are on the men's floor. We have one dresser. Um, and, uh, I can see them, you know, we've talked and stuff, but like I was, you know, such a wreck. I cried, dude. I cried when I—I folded my jeans and I put them up where I put them, and then I hung my shirt over the chair and I was like, oh, it's like fucking ever. It's like everything. This is what—it's so normal. I just burst into tears. It was so—the most innocuous, you know, kind of thing. Um, uh, felt normal. It's also, I'm sure you guys experienced this too, because when you—when you stop doing what we do, we invest so much of ourselves in what we do, you know. I had a really—one of my many existential crises over the pandemic was like, who am I without performing, right?

[13:41] De'Lon Grant: Who am I if I'm not an actor? I'm so many things. Well, all three of us were many things, you know. But I think we give so much of ourselves to it requires so much of us physically, mentally, you know, um emotionally, uh, that uh without it, I just was like a little bit lost. So coming back to it, I was like, it was a deep breath, you know.

[14:00] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[14:01] De'Lon Grant: Wow. Even just like seeing Joe for the first time when the pandemic was over was like super bizarre. I can't imagine, you know, they're talking about a Waitress revival, lol. I couldn't imagine going back into that building in that space and those memories like nothing had changed.

[14:18] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[14:19] De'Lon Grant: It was about two holes of Joe and I playing golf, fully vaccinated that we looked at each other and we were like, it's like this didn't happen.

[14:26] Joe Carroll: I know.

[14:27] De'Lon Grant: That's the thing. And yet a whole year's gone.

[14:29] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[14:30] De'Lon Grant: And everything is different.

[14:31] Joe Carroll: Yes.

[14:32] De'Lon Grant: Right. Yeah, that that's the thing. And what Dan and I've talked a lot about this that I hope, I really hope that the change that is needed happens because it can feel like and it can feel like this was just a blip on the radar. All of a sudden we're in it's May of 2021. It feels like it's May of 2020. And you're like, no, so much has changed, and and and it needs to. So I don't know, I don't know. Were there were there conversations around the building that did it feel different, or did it like you said, like, or did it sort of just feel like it was a time capsule that you just opened?

[15:07] De'Lon Grant: I think I think the what you just stated was was kind of the sentiment. The weird, trippy part of it was that, you know, nothing has changed. You know, when I I went back to the theater to get my script before we even started rehearsing, I was like, oh shit, it says March. The March calendar of 2020 is just sitting there, you know, we've marched circle, you know. Our our sign in sheet was still there, you know. Um it was just really really trippy, you know. But again, like you're saying, we've had a whole three dimensional, like, I don't want we won't, we all experienced it, so there's no need to go through all the all the things that happened in the last year, right? But like so many reckonings, so many things that I think individually and kind of collectively, we we've all experienced. So to come back to normalcy and routine, um feels awesome and and grounding, but it also is like am I being gaslit? Like right, right. So it's a little weird, you know.

[16:04] Joe Carroll: Was there any this this may be a bit of a leading question, but was there any hesitancy from anybody in the company to go back to work? Because I know there's kind of conversations in the community right now about whether or not we should be kind of standing firm, how we deal with contracts coming, like what needs to be done. Was there any conversation in that direction?

[16:22] De'Lon Grant: You know, um, our producers and um really made a concerted effort to kind of mitigate any of that and also give space for us to express it. So if people were like, um, if if anybody had those concerns, you know, I feel like uh our producers are amazing, they have ample opportunity to go and and and express that. And um they're such great people that they would they would really do what they could to try to make um that individual comfortable. But they also hired an independent company to to, and I think it's probably mandated by New York State and New York City or uh in some capacity, but um, to take care of all of the protocol, all of the COVID protocol. So to work, they had to they had to adhere to certain things.

Um, and to to you know, not to go down too down far down that rabbit hole, but you know, some people were like, do we have to wear masks and rehearsal, right? Like that feels like we're all vaccinated. Do we have to do that? And uh they were like, Yeah, we have to do that. So um, so they really made a concerted effort to kind of make everyone feel comfortable and and do what we could, right? Because you didn't want them to be shut down.

[17:28] Joe Carroll: Right, right, right, right.

[17:30] De'Lon Grant: Um, I'm trying to think if there are any specific, um no, I don't think it was any specific COVID precaution or or apprehensions that I experienced. Um I I found more than people being like, you know, we we okay, rehearsal, we have to do this, but also uh uh the roof, we have the access to this rooftop, and I was always like, Oh, I can take I can take my mask off. Are you are you guys sure? Sure. Um even outside today, I was walking outside and I was like, uh I guess I can not have a mask on, right? Oh, this is awful.

[18:01] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[18:02] De'Lon Grant: Yeah. Yeah, it's it's wild. And I think I think we all need to sort of those of us who love the theater and want desperately to be in those the in the seats for you know in early September or or mid-September when when the show we need to like start to be around human beings again a little bit. I think that we're gonna be wearing masks for a while, but like they're just they're saying September we're just gonna open the floodgates and come on in. Let's just do it, you know.

[18:27] Joe Carroll: And it's like okay, okay, for better or worse, that's the plan.

[18:31] De'Lon Grant: So I don't know. I flew on an airplane for the first time last week, and I was like, I I think it was it was good. I felt fine the whole time except for the boarding process. But the boarding process is sitting in a Broadway theater. Like that is no, you know, right. You know, there's you're next to this person who's like on top of you, like I'm zone one or whatever, just fucking sneezing. We're like, I don't know where you've been, bro.

[18:55] Joe Carroll: Right.

[18:56] De'Lon Grant: So anyway, well, it's it's very exciting. And is there any idea when the movie's gonna come out? Have they uh I'm sure the edit's gonna take a long time, but are they hoping for the summer, do you think?

[19:06] De'Lon Grant: I think they're trying to speed through it. I mean, it's you know, I don't know what what it takes to edit a film, but well, I do, and they can do it pretty fast if you ask me. So and actually, this is great. We so I didn't I didn't actually tell you this. Dan and I helped to the University of Michigan acting seniors with their senior showcase.

[19:24] Joe Carroll: Oh wait.

[19:25] De'Lon Grant: Class of 2021, the class of 2020, and we basically filmed uh a short film that was not even a it's a feature. Short film. It's it was a feature film. It was 90 minutes. We're like everybody has a scene, everybody has two scenes, and we helped them film it, and Dan edited it. So Dan did not edit a 90-minute feature film. He edited a 90-minute showcase, which felt like a feature film. It was a feature film. It's 32 scenes. It's a lot of scenes. 34 scenes. And do you guys with that? Because I do a little bit of, you know, I think we all kind of do teaching and coaching. Do you feel like that is kind of like gonna be something that sticks around? Because that could be a hustle, you guys.

[19:59] Joe Carroll: Well, that's I mean, we're we're trying to figure out kind of whether or not the schools are gonna be interested in that. But you know, if you want to hear the sales pitch from from a business standpoint for us, like I'm ready. We were we were teaching people how to shoot their own work so they can go forward and do that. That's a value pitch. We were teaching them how to make better self-tapes because they were filming themselves basically in scenes and it was essentially a self-tape. It just may have had two camera angles instead of one. And there's some cuts that happen because we can do shot reverse shot. So you're teaching them how to self-tape those things are both valuable for the students, but also why would you pay seven, nine, twelve thousand dollars to rent a theater for two days?

I I just like why would you spend money on that? You know, and and I get it, if you're a musical theater program, I think it makes sense to have to be in a space to have the room to, you know, in that traditional model, but um for the acting majors that are gonna be working on television and film mostly anyway, I feel like we have a very targeted niche. Let's come in there and shoot something that that kind of feels like a pro shot. We shoot it on a stage, but we make it look like a movie and give them that uh experience and and let them take that with them.

[21:20] Joe Carroll: Um but Joe, what were you gonna say?

[21:22] Joe Carroll: Well, just that the agents and casting directors and people that we talk to want loved it because then they have something to take with them. When they go to when the when the industry professionals go to a live showcase, then they they show up, they watch it, they take some notes and they leave. Now they have that scene. Now they have, you know, so they go through a whole showcase season, they meet a bunch of factors, and they're like, okay, you know, I know that I like De'Lon, but now three weeks have passed. Go back now, they can go back and rewatch that scene and be like, oh yeah, this is what I you know, this is what he did. And so we and it just came out of nowhere, but it was a very cool, it was a very cool thing.

We got to go back to Ann Arbor. I went back to Ann Arbor. I did not, I was not vaccinated yet. Again, I feel like it's it's so smart, you guys, because um uh yeah, I not you're not tastemakers, but I feel like if you pull the industry that way, if you're like this is what we do, we provide this service, and this is why would the pitch you just gave me, so smart. Um, but also I feel like um, you know, how many times have I met with an agent, right? You meet with an agent, I've met with one, not too well, don't how many agents don't listen to this? Um with an agent just before the shutdown, you know. And um he was like, uh, oh well, you know, um I my other agents have to see you, right? So like to your point, these kids can he can take it back to the agency and be like, oh, De'Lon, you know, this is who who I saw at the showcase.

Right. Um, but I just feel like it's niche and it's smart, and um a lot of things are gonna go digital after this, after the pandemic. And I feel like if you capitalize on it, it'd be um smart. The end off my soapbox. We're gonna put that on the website.

[22:58] De'Lon Grant: So yeah, we sure that's your testimonial seal of approval.

[23:02] Joe Carroll: I'll shoot it right here with myself. I'll send it to you. You tell me what you want me to say. It's going right in the pitch deck.

[23:09] De'Lon Grant: So I I want to talk about your time there because you and and just with in in general, because you went to Michigan and and majored in acting, right? And then you went and got a master's uh in at Boco, right?

[23:18] De'Lon Grant: Yeah, yeah.

[23:24] Joe Carroll: Sort of focused on music. So what was your what was your journey to like you know, did you want that sort of serious acting training and you were always a singer, or because you've done mostly musicals now? I mean a ton of musicals. So what was your journey through higher education?

[23:38] De'Lon Grant: Yeah, so I went to I was, you know, grew up in northern Minnesota uh mainly. Um, and I uh I we had a small theater program, we just kind of all did everything, you know. We sang, we acted and stuff, and I was a little blind. I only applied to a handful of schools in Michigan, I applied late, and I went to camp the campus and I was like, oh yes, please let me go here. Once I joined in, I was like elated, you know, save for the fact that at the time it cost me $38,000, you know, right. Um, but uh I went and I was so naive, man. I went and I thought we'd just do all of it. I thought we'd sing, we'd act, we'd dance, and they were like, oh, this is just look at the curriculum. I was like, oh, this is just acting, um, which I was super grateful for, but I was so confused by the idea that the musical theater program and the acting program were different.

Um because at my in my ten years, so many of the musical theater kids took acting classes with our professors, right? So um I just uh I was always a little stymied by that or confused by it, but I was glad I got the acting training because I feel like that was like the foundations of all of it, you know, for me. Um, I there are a lot of amazing singers in the world, but you know, I'll buy your album, you know. I don't want to see you up there singing pretty, you know.

[24:56] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[24:56] De'Lon Grant: Right. It's awesome if that's a uh a benefit that you have while you're acting, you know. But like um, I uh yeah, I'll buy I'll listen to you on Spotify. Um but um so I went to grad schools. I moved to New York for a stamp for about six months and um with three thousand dollars, and I thought it was the most money I saved in my life. You know, I grew up a really poor kid. Um, so I really didn't have a family to lean on, you know. So I went to New York and I was like all I was getting was musical callbacks and auditions and things, despite not really having the training, you know. And I did this show here in Brooklyn, and all these people could sing me out of the water, and I was like, okay, and you also look on Broadway and you see um the plays on Broadway, and that's led by stars, you know.

Yeah, you know what I mean? And and uh that that wasn't brand new when I first moved to New York back in 06, but um, you know, I was like, there's no chance of me getting that, you know, because I don't have a name yet. But musicals, right? Like they need more people, you know. There's just it's a numbers game. So uh I wanted to go back to grad school anyway because I thought I wanted to teach for a long time. So I got into I only applied to Boko, they had a master's program. I went. I I will look back on my Michigan experience uh for the rest of my days, thinking I would do those four years again in a heartbeat. That was like such a pivotal time for me. Boko, not so much. Boko was a lot harder uh um for a multitude of reasons, but just mainly in the support kind of, you know, um uh realm of things, I kind of felt like it wasn't uh I I you know, I'm a better singer because of it.

[26:42] Joe Carroll: There you go.

[26:46] De'Lon Grant: You know, um but there was a lot of there's a lot of issues that I had with the school itself.

[26:50] Joe Carroll: So that's too bad.

[26:52] De'Lon Grant: Yeah.

[26:53] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[26:53] De'Lon Grant: School is not everyone experience, you know.

[26:56] Joe Carroll: Right, right.

[26:57] De'Lon Grant: I think school is hard because you know school's hard, yeah, it's just hard. You know, I've I've been talking about this a lot with other teachers, with my teacher, my coach, and he's like, you know, you're not really meant to learn how to be an artist in a school. It's not really academia is not the place to learn how to be a creative professional. Um, but that is more and more like what we do.

[27:20] De'Lon Grant: Joe and I obviously, all three of us, you know, like in different programs, but it's I think so, you know, there's not just one, there's not one way, there's not one school, and there's not one experience at each school. I think that's the biggest thing that like I tell students and that we talk about like everybody's experience is so unique.

[27:39] Joe Carroll: Right.

[27:39] De'Lon Grant: And so I think all three of us could talk about the pros and cons of like going to college for this ridiculous, ridiculous career that we're in. Lots of pros, lots of cons, you know. Um, but you know, we're figuring it out. Um but I will say, just to your point, Dan, I feel like artistry is not formulaic. Right. You know, right? And I think the problem with school is that you have how do you teach it? How do you teach someone to be an artist, right? How do you teach talent? Well, you really can't. You teach skills, you know. Um, and I think going to Boco, I really was trying to fit myself into a hole, you know. Right. Um and be like, I I'm a Brian Stokes Mitchell. Oh no, but I need to do a able to do this. And I'm not a dancer, I'm an actor. I'm like, how about I just do what do you have for me? You know, um musical theater, I think is a little bit more prescriptive than I enjoy sometimes. So that's also the thing that I kind of brought to the school as well.

[28:46] Joe Carroll: Yeah, that's super real, especially in the training. Uh this weekend I was going through all of my college notebooks that have been sitting in my closet since 2013, and just like flipping through trying to see if I actually wanted to keep anything, threw it all away, trying to get rid of junk, right? But just looking at like the like me and Joe sang the same rep every year, don't even have the same voice type. You know, like we don't really do the same things. We could be like cousins kind of, like we have similar complexions. There's like a Venn diagram.

[29:21] De'Lon Grant: Yeah, there's a Venn diagram of stuff, but like it's small and getting smaller the older we get. But I just back to your what you were saying about training, it's like I think that you can teach skills, De'Lon, like you said, but then once you graduate, once you get to the real world, then you become an artist. Then you gotta then you figure out what your voice is, what do you want to say, what you want to do.

[29:42] De'Lon Grant: Yeah, I completely agree. And the best advice is like when we train, they teach us how to be like other people, but what you're actually doing is preparing for an industry that doesn't exist yet. So, like what Shoshana Bean said on this show was that there was no Shoshana Bean when I got out of school out of college. And so there is no De'Lon. You know, right, right. You you're not Brian Stokes Mitchell. You are you, and you're gonna create what you create. And we're gonna I have goofbumps, Daniel. I have goosebumps. Tell the kids though. Honest to God, seriously, though. That's legit, man. Segwaying into your Broadway debut and Come From Away. How did that how did that come about for you?

[30:24] De'Lon Grant: Man, you know, um back to Hamilton. Um, I I'd auditioned for Hamilton a bunch of times and had it was at Telsey, and uh they needed somebody really quickly to replace and Come From Away, and I had no idea what the show was. Um, but you know, the casting person for uh casting director for Hamilton was talking to the casting director for Come From Away. They were auditioning at the same time and introduced me to the casting director from Come From Away before my audition. Didn't know why. My agent called me and was like, hey, they want you to go in for this show. And I was like, Oh, okay, okay. Um, but I was kind of like, you know, auditions, auditions are hard and especially at that place. And you know, I just I'm I I am not the best auditioner in the world.

Um, and so I was like, Oh, okay, fine. And so I went in the next day and didn't care. Not that I not and it that's that's a hard phrase because it's like it's not the I love it. I love I know what Joe knows exactly what it is. It's and Joe books every job he doesn't care about.

[31:26] Joe Carroll: Well, and it's it's not about I don't want to do the words anybody, but it's not about not caring. Right, it's about that separation of just like you're just gonna go in and and I'm gonna do great work. I'm gonna try to do great work, but I'm not going to put my whole life into this thing. Like my existence depends on whether or not I'm in the Book of Mormon.

[31:46] De'Lon Grant: Yes. Like, you know. It's like anyway. Go sorry to interrupt.

[31:49] Joe Carroll: No, no, but that's Joe. That's exactly it. It's it's uh, you know, I I label as I don't give a fuck or I don't care. Or if I bottle, I don't care, you know, I'd be a millionaire, right? Um but it's not that it's it's uh I like the idea of separating it. It's like it's not that it doesn't matter. I'm gonna do all the work that's necessary because I'm a professional, right? But I'm not gonna live and die whether I by whether I get this, if that phrasing doesn't make sense, but you get totally 100%.

[32:18] De'Lon Grant: And uh so I went in and had a good time, you know. Like I really just was like, yeah, you know, whatever. I had that audition yesterday, that sucked. Let me like do this thing, you know, and like feel better about myself, you know. Um and uh I got a call back the next week and was almost almost missed it, right? Just because I got the wrong location. I thought I was at Telsey, it was downtown of Pearl Studios, um, and uh ran in, did the audition, then the call back, and then the next day got the call. Um again, because they needed somebody really quickly, you know. Um so uh which was mind boggling because you know at some yeah, Broadway, awesome, like Broadway. Yes, please, Broadway, please keep gifting us all with jobs, right?

[33:04] Joe Carroll: Right.

[33:04] De'Lon Grant: We love that. We love we love what we do, man. But um at some point, I feel like I had just wanted to work, I just wanted to tell stories, I just wanted to feel good about that. Like I love being in rehearsal, performance is amazing. Listen, clap for me, laugh at my jokes all the time, but rehearsal when we're working, when we're excavating and figuring it out, that's what I love, right? Um, and so I think most of my career is regional, so I got used to that and kind of um felt like you know, well, this is my bread and butter. This is kind of where my wheelhouse is. So uh when bro when it fell into my lap, uh Come From Away on Broadway, I I was a little shocked. Uh I just didn't expect it, you know.

Um it wasn't um, yeah, it was my first Broadway show. So um, and I had a three-week rehearsal process, two and a half, and then uh I had like a put in on a Friday, and that day that night I was in the show. Uh and it was the day before my my 34th birthday, 34? Yeah, 34th birthday. Yeah, so it was a really nice gift that year.

[34:10] Joe Carroll: Wow. That that's crazy. I want to just touch on like the was there a time you said like your career was trending very regionally, you were playing you know, a lot of parts, doing you know, a lot of that stuff. I don't want to this is not the right way to sort of phrase the question. Is there a question like is it coming? Yes, there is, it's coming. Like, had your focus shifted from had your focus shifted from this like Broadway dream to like I'm good, I'm good telling stories in regional houses, I'm good telling stories on TV. And you know, were you were you kind of excited or or or cool with that lane, or were you always trying to of course you were? I mean, it's a stupid question. I'm sorry, it's actually not I quit.

[34:53] De'Lon Grant: No, it's actually you're actually uh you're listening you're you're hitting the cord, man. You're hitting the cord. Um, because uh I think to go down my into my psyche, it's it was a little like I was successful there. I was successful regionally, mostly in Boston after grad school, right? I I worked a lot, um, I was I I felt confident there. Broadway, you know, we're at the top of the game, you know. That's like we're the two percent of people doing what we do. And so being successful there, uh not only did I not know it, but it's scary. It's scary to be like, oh, once you're uh I had a professor say to me one time, what's your biggest fear, De'Lon? And my immediate thought was my own success, which is like crazy. I could not believe I thought that. I was like, this is what I just thought. But now I understand that it's like once I'm there, you expect me to be able to deliver that every damn time. And I'm fallible, you know.

[35:50] Joe Carroll: Um, and I um I will fall on my face, and I I do on a regular basis. Uh and so I think I had kind of put space a little bit of a pond between me and Broadway because not only had I not experienced it again, but it was like, oh, once I'm there, imposter syndrome, once I'm there, they expect me to do it all. I don't know if I'm that good, you know.

[36:13] Joe Carroll: God, yeah, that is so real. Did you find did you find I think it's interesting that you said that you like the like explorative creative rehearsal process given your acting training? Did you find it difficult to get put into a show that existed where especially a show like that where it was very prescriptive?

[36:32] De'Lon Grant: You know, uh yeah, it's so funny. I this is the second time I've replaced in a big show like this. Uh and these people, man, I mean, when you know if you know Come From Away, the story, generosity, kindness, it permeates through top to bottom. I mean, you cannot be a jerk and tell the story, you know. They really let me make my own. Like they they it's definitely musical. They're like, yeah, you can walk to 11, you sing your notes, you know. It is definitely and it's the magic of Come From Away is its direction, and it's like very precise. It has to be. Uh, because we're creating, you know, a whole story out of you know, 12 actors, a couple chairs, 14 chairs, two tables, three tables, and nine musicians, you know. Um, so it has to be really structured.

[37:23] De'Lon Grant: Uh, but they really gave me leeway to do to create the characters because we all play several characters, create the characters I want. I wanted to, and that wasn't that's not always the case. It was uh, you know, a lot more hand holding in in my prior experiences. So um so yes and no, I guess.

[37:43] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah. Well, it does feel like because the there's so much choreography, there's so many sharp moments, there's so many tight jokes that it's not like Shakespearean, but you do have to hit you have to hit the hit the mark and say the line, you know. So, how do you play within this formula? And I mean, just I I've seen I saw your performance many, many times. It was always different, it was always hysterical and moving and specific.

[38:09] De'Lon Grant: Thanks, man. And so it's you know, again, this is the part of the show where there's no question. This is the where I start giving out the compliments.

[38:16] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[38:17] De'Lon Grant: So I just thought it I I think it's interesting that that Broadway shows happen one way. It's very idiosyncratic the way it gets put together, usually. There were so many weird things in Waitress. And then two new people. I was the second replacement for my track, and they're still like, so you bring out two red plastic carnations, not your own, but for the other two people that you're sitting with, yours comes from this place because that's how we did it in rehearsal. I'm like, that doesn't make any sense. And they're like, Well, that's how it's done here. And I'm like, Broadway is stupid. And so I said that in my second rehearsal, and I said, Broadway is stupid, and they quoted me for the whole stage management team would say that to me all the time because Broadway's stupid, right, Dan?

And I was like, damn, I shouldn't have said that. But it's true. You know, it's just another weird rehearsal process, and the weird things that people do in the rehearsal room in Boston or in San Diego or whatever turn into the things that people do nine years down the line on the non-equity tour. It's like so bizarre to me.

[39:20] Joe Carroll: It's so true. And I'll I'll give you an anecdote that doesn't have to do with me. But one of our actors in our show, uh, who is from Newfoundland, Petrina Bromley, um, uh beautiful woman, Canadian talented woman, right? So she um uh during the rehearsal process in La Jolla, they're like trying to figure out how to make do this choreography to make this plain, and but you know, they're asking, like, who can take this chair? And Petrina's like, I can't, I can't, I can't. The poor standbys in the first chair move we have to change the set, Petrina removes four chairs, has to put on a jacket. Meanwhile, other actors are just like, I'm just gonna walk over here and then sit by a light. And I was like, every standby, every standby is like, God damn Petrina, even rehearsing for the film. Uh she was, I was like, Jamaica, did you make it? She's like, just barely, but I did. I was like, man, it stays that track will always do that from here on out, you know.

[40:17] De'Lon Grant: Exactly stupid. There's so there's a story there's a bunch of stories about that. Broadway's stupid. Again, we have a podcast called You know About Why We Love Musicals. Um, there's a story of when Patti LuPone was doing I think it was Les Mis, she was like in a development something about for Les Mis, and she was playing Fantine, and she would hide everybody plays ever all of the the principals play ensemble tracks except for in the opening, except for um except for Valjean and Javert. And so like the Fantine has to go do, you know, be like a lovely lady in the or something. I don't remember what the hell it was, but she would go hide, she'd like go hide in the corner, and they were like, no, you have to be in this and she was not wanting to, you know, hiding in the corner because she knew she would have to do it eight times a week.

[41:07] Joe Carroll: Um, one of our actors, uh, the original company members, Lee McDougall, another Canadian, uh, did something very similar to him from why he's not in this prayer scene. Everyone else is in the scene, but he was like, I'm gonna use the bathroom. He was just gone when they staged the scene, so he's not in it. It's so funny.

[41:25] Dan Tracy: Oh my god, that's brilliant. So if you've taken away, we've talked about this a few times on the show. But if you're, if you young listeners out there are gonna be in your original Broadway cast, you're gonna know. Hot tip from us, don't be the person who volunteers for the set moves just because you're 22.

[41:40] Joe Carroll: Right.

[41:40] Dan Tracy: And he Kelso made the mistake. You know, everybody's made the mistake. I'm just, if you go see referencing shows that I've done where people have done that. If you go see Moulin Rouge during Bad Romance, the opening of Act Two, it's like the craziest dance number you've ever seen. And there's one guy sitting upstage right on a bench smoking a cigarette, and that is Joe Carroll's track.

[42:03] Joe Carroll: That's your boy. That's, that's Joe Carroll's track.

[42:06] Dan Tracy: How did that happen?

[42:07] Joe Carroll: Because like she didn't like it, she didn't like, she did not, I mean, let's be very, that is exactly true.

[42:15] Dan Tracy: That is 100% true.

[42:18] Joe Carroll: And so that's the basis of it. But um, I yeah, that's it also jokes on them because he doesn't have to do it. You know, yeah, like I, they needed somebody to sing. I was like a singer a track because everybody's dancing their asses off. So they had a couple of us who just like needed to like sit on the side and just sing because they, you know, the dancers were puffing and puffing. But anyway, I mean that show I'm so dumb. So dumb I hope they have like a PT person in the building in that show because wow, you know, there's a million things we've talked about already but but De'Lon we want to know a few questions here. What would you say you, you mentioned this earlier but what, what is your greatest challenge been in your career do you think you mentioned in college that it was about, you know, you've the fear of your own success but I wonder, you know, what have you come across so far that's, that's been the greatest challenge for you.

[43:07] De'Lon Grant: Yeah, I mean it's probably cliche to say but uh just confidence man, you know, um I don't, uh I, uh I can say that I know that I'm a talented individual right but I can't um I can't say that uh that I always feel like my performance is fantastic right I can't say you're always judging yourself more than others judge you right we all know that but um the older I get the closer I get to 40 the, the more confident I am which I am like running toward um just because um yeah it just takes a lot, it takes a lot of a lot for me to be confident and feel uh like I'm worthy, you know? Um and and again that's not unique to me, you know, in in um our business um because we all suffer from that in our business but um but you know we're all I would tell a young kid man you know there's nobody like you like Dan said there's no De'Lon right De'Lon like little De'Lon you know like fucking you're great man you know you're on Broadway you have all these things right so I'm I'm trying to be a lot more confident and uh um just believe in myself more it takes a lot though what's the hack is it just like time in the business or is there some kind of mind trickery or what do you think?

[44:27] Joe Carroll: Good question.

[44:27] De'Lon Grant: I, you know what I uh I'm starting to believe that it's finding my own voice um literally and figuratively um uh in the art you know a lot of uh as actors we we interpret someone's um script someone's song someone's idea for the show and I'm starting to ask myself more and more just where, where is your voice in that right um uh a lot of times we just want to work and we just want to do a project but it's actually it's just it's okay to just say no I don't see myself in that um I don't fit that you know that's not for me uh and so finding a lot of more and that take you know I'm trying to write and dabble and do some of that stuff so um I think that's a part of it but um just see making sure that you're in the equation you know um of whatever you do like yeah yeah you're writing what are you writing what are you working on?

[44:27] De'Lon Grant: God me I've been trying to write this one man show for like all of the pan well but even before the pandemic but writing is hard yes it is yes it is so damn hard especially when you're, you know, what is that Ira class quote? Your taste level is a certain height, you know, at a certain level, and trying a new endeavor, and um uh so yeah, I'm trying to write a a one-man show. Um, and I'm all but I also want it to be music, you know, and I don't really play anything. So I'm teaching myself guitar and piano, so you know, talk to me in 2030 when when I'm able to do it. But um, but uh uh yeah, I'm trying to, you know, not only is writing hard, but like having something significant to say to get people to come and sit and watch, right?

Um, for an hour or an hour and a half is um trying to figure out what that is, what is gonna move both Joe and Dan, you know, um instead of watching me uh if I'm sitting up there masturbating, not literally, but masturbating for an hour and a half, you know, um about my feelings, is that interesting? You know, uh uh I don't know.

[46:25] Joe Carroll: But also you've created the impossible task, which is an obstacle for you, which is like trying to figure out how you can speak to other people, right? Which is gonna get in your way because then you're just gonna self-edit before you even have an idea.

[46:41] De'Lon Grant: Dan, I have pages, pages on a Google Doc. I mean, probably 50 pages of stuff, and it's all that it's me going like, well, no, that's not interesting. Oh yeah, well, this is you crying, you know what I mean? So, like trying to figure out what the threat is, trying to read more to figure out how um gifted AS essayists do it, you know. So I read some essays and I'm like, man, you in that paragraph, you said exactly what my heart you're singing to me, you know, right? Um, I wish I had the same uh uh capacity to to make other people uh feel that. So yeah, trying to figure that out.

[47:21] De'Lon Grant: The art of being a YouTuber is obviously not as uh high level as being an essayist, but one of the things that they always talk about is like if it's if it's something that you feel like you need, make that. There's there's a gaping there was a gap in in what I was looking for on YouTube, and I was putting all of these other resources together so then my channel became what I was looking for. And turns out there are other people that are also looking for that, you know.

[47:55] Joe Carroll: Wow.

[47:55] De'Lon Grant: Make something you need.

[47:57] Joe Carroll: I love that.

[47:58] De'Lon Grant: Yes. Um is there, is there you were just mentioning essay, is there a book or a resource or something that you found uh invaluable in your in your career, something that you really hang your hat on?

[48:09] De'Lon Grant: You know, there was this uh I did this show and this guy I couldn't stand in the show. Um gave me this book for Christmas. Um Stan Tracy, no, just kidding. Uh no, I couldn't, I he was just I couldn't stand this fucking guy. Um and he gave me this book and it actually did bridge the gap. I good on him, but it's um The War of Arts by Stephen Retfield.

[48:33] Joe Carroll: Yep.

[48:34] De'Lon Grant: Um for a while I was reading that pretty uh once a year I was reading that book over and over again. Um not all of it sinks in, but some of it is like I mean, the gist of it, the the t-shirt phrase is like get up and do it, you know, stop thinking, get up and do it. Um and then uh recently I read Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert.

[48:56] Joe Carroll: Mm-hmm.

[48:58] De'Lon Grant: Which is kind of similar. Um she's a writer, obviously. She wrote Epre Love, but a lot of it is just about being an artist. And um uh that one I want to reread in the next month as well, because that that kind of made me it was a deep breath again, like, oh yes, okay, you get it, you understand, you know.

[49:16] Dan Tracy: That's awesome.

[49:17] Dan Tracy: And then what we always ask, um, sort of one is one of our last questions. I call it the unreachable star question, which is like, what is way on the horizon? Something you're pointed towards, something you'd love to accomplish that you're, you know, you've reached the top of Mount Broadway, and now where to next.

[49:36] De'Lon Grant: You know what's so funny. I uh uh I'm trying, I'm trying not to like edit myself out of it. Um, but I really want um the whole album uh tour. I want to be a musician, man. I really do want to be able to uh before I I leave this earth, I want to be able to say I've done that. Um music moves us, you know. That's why um uh it can make you so sad, it can change your mood. I wake up every day and listen to music, or during the pandemic, I was having solo dance parties, and I was like, Oh, you know why all of this I started in choir and then I did the musical, right? In high school, and it was music, it's always been music. I just haven't had the confidence and the skill there. So um, you know, so talk to me in 2030 again.

[50:28] Joe Carroll: That's perfect. It's like your elementary school sweetheart. You're like, it's you, it's always been you.

[50:35] De'Lon Grant: Absolutely.

[50:36] Joe Carroll: And you're like, I was like, I loved you. I've always loved you.

[50:41] De'Lon Grant: Totally, totally. I yeah, like just waiting for you to love me back, man.

[50:46] Joe Carroll: Music had you at hello.

[50:48] De'Lon Grant: It sure did.

[50:49] Joe Carroll: It sure did.

[50:50] Dan Tracy: Um, well, you really got Joe with the freaking rom com reference. Good God. Joe's like, I feel seen. I think he's crying. Are you crying?

[50:56] Joe Carroll: No, is it a tear?

[50:57] De'Lon Grant: I'm not, it's not a tear, but I, I just this has been one of my absolute favorite conversations that we have ever had.

[51:06] Joe Carroll: I agree. De'Lon, I just I can't believe thank you for your, for your openness for your, your insight. I mean, I've always loved talking to you. I miss Hold Fast. I miss standing at a standing at a bar talking to you. But there's so much, there's just so much good in this in this hour. And I I'm gonna listen back to it when I get stuck when I'm not writing. I mean, I've always just it's always been music for me. Yeah, like, you know, and and I struggle with the confidence thing constantly. I mean, I think it's just so strange. People probably look at people on Broadway and don't think that. And then it's like, no, like we're all just head cases, just terrified we're never gonna work again.

[51:46] De'Lon Grant: Yes, we're all the same exact soul that was on stage at 18 thinking, do they think I'm good enough at this? Except now you're 28, 38, 48 thinking the same thing.

[51:57] Joe Carroll: I mean, listen, I had a conversation with Jen Kallella, and we were, you know, uh uh and during the filming, and she was like, I had said something one time about not being a leading man, and you know, whatever. I've this I have this voice, this body, I'm tall, and I'm you know, broad shouldered and whatever. And so I, I fit the type, but I'm like, uh the reason I said that was not only because um I don't know, I haven't seen the part necessarily for me, but it's also that that is work. I said, Do you know the I've we've all been significant parts in shows? The hurricane that happens internally every time I go on the stage when you're the lead of a show. I you know, I need a Xanax. You know, it's just it's a lot of stress, you know.

Uh, and so I was like, that's why I don't see myself as a leading man. It's not that I won't take the part, it's just that you know I gotta prepare myself. It's you know, my brain. And she was like, I totally get it. When you're when you're leading it, man, it is um people don't know what's happening internally. You're uh you look confident because you you've acted confident, but that's you're the you're the picture of confidence. Yes, in you don't know what's going on.

[53:03] Joe Carroll: It's a 10 burden thing, yeah.

[53:05] De'Lon Grant: Right. Totally. I've had the same experience.

[53:07] Joe Carroll: Well, De'Lon, this has been an absolute delight. Where can people find you in the world?

[53:12] De'Lon Grant: Yeah, um, on the social media, I'm at the De'Lon.com, and uh my website is uh the De'Lon.com. So find my stuff there.

[53:21] Joe Carroll: Consistency, y'all. That's key to the handles.

[53:22] Dan Tracy: Very good.

[53:24] Joe Carroll: Brand brand brand, right, Joe?

[53:27] Joe Carroll: Joe Carroll Mish, baby.

[53:29] Dan Tracy: That's right.

[53:31] Joe Carroll: I need a new Instagram name like a decade ago. But here we are.

[53:36] Dan Tracy: Um Jesus got it.

[53:38] Joe Carroll: Damn it.

[53:39] Dan Tracy: Joe loves golf 224.

[53:44] Joe Carroll: You know what? It's a process. I'll get there, Dan. Honestly, I'd prefer that.

[53:49] Joe Carroll: Joe loves golf 224. I think that'd be better for you.

[53:52] Dan Tracy: That's all, folks.

[53:56] Joe Carroll: Thank you for listening to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[53:59] Dan Tracy: We are now part of the Broadway Podcast Network.

[54:02] Joe Carroll: Woo!

[54:03] Dan Tracy: We are hosted by Dan Tracy.

[54:05] Joe Carroll: That's you, and Joe Carroll.

[54:06] Dan Tracy: That's me.

[54:07] Joe Carroll: We're produced by Ryan Kincaid, and Matthew Mucha is the social content manager.

[54:11] Dan Tracy: You can find us on Instagram at Guys Who Like Musicals, on Twitter at Musical Guys, or the old fashioned way at www.guyslikemusicals.com.

[54:18] Joe Carroll: If you'd like a chance to be featured on the Ask the Guys segment of our show, please call 203 900 7990 and leave a message with your question.

[54:28] Dan Tracy: As always, thanks for listening.