This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jim Hogan: So an actor is saying his lines, and then out of nowhere, he just starts singing "Don't Cry for Me."

[0:42] Jim Hogan: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[0:45] Dan Tracy: Wow. This is an honor.

[0:48] Jim Hogan: I feel like I have listened to so many of these.

[0:51] Dan Tracy: Have you actually?

[0:52] Jim Hogan: Absolutely. When the Shoshana Bean one came out, I was like, oh, okay, this is like a weekly worthy pod. This is amazing.

[1:02] Dan Tracy: These guys.

[1:03] Jim Hogan: Serious. No, I'm serious. I love it. I love it so much.

[1:05] Dan Tracy: Thanks, man.

[1:06] Jim Hogan: Thank you. It's been hard. We haven't really like, uh, it's been hard to do, but here we are, and I think we like the new format because it's not hard. It's more fun. Now we're watching musicals again. And, um, thank you for being here.

[1:19] Dan Tracy: Oh my God, you're gonna give us some of your time away from your TikTok to, uh, well, social media star Jim Hogan. How did that happen?

[1:28] Jim Hogan: Actually, I'll tell you how that happened. That happened because of Dan Tracy. That's like genuinely how that happened.

[1:34] Dan Tracy: He's gonna take full credit for it in about one second.

[1:36] Jim Hogan: Well, he kind of shouldn't have to.

[1:38] Dan Tracy: He kind of should.

[1:40] Jim Hogan: Dan, what do we, uh, you were doing this, you were doing, you were talking to your Instagram one day, and you were like, guys, you don't understand. TikTok is the new frontier.

[1:48] Dan Tracy: And I was like, what? I had like, I had heard of TikTok like maybe like once in my life.

[1:54] Jim Hogan: And you were like, you're like, straight up, no strings, free consultation, just DM me. And I was like, okay, that seems pretty easy. What are you talking about, Dan?

[2:03] Dan Tracy: And then we had like a really nice, like 20-minute conversation of you, like explaining this cool platform to me. And you were like, I really think your stuff that you've already done would like, would work well on there.

[2:15] Jim Hogan: And then what, six months later, we're still doing it.

[2:18] Dan Tracy: So I have screenshots of you the day that you put out the, um, the Frozen medley.

[2:24] Jim Hogan: Yeah, just like notching. Because you, what was it, like a hundred thousand followers that day, you guys got a million views in 24 hours or something like that.

[2:33] Dan Tracy: Yeah, it was something like that.

[2:34] Jim Hogan: It's pretty crazy, right?

[2:35] Dan Tracy: I, it was insane. I, yeah, I don't know how that's possible.

[2:38] Jim Hogan: And I was just like watching it like, ha, I knew it would work. Um, no, but you know, it's, it's a testament to kind of the stuff that you guys do. And, um, if you guys don't, haven't heard of T3, the TikTok tenors, um, they have an Instagram now, just check out Jim, uh, Jim on Instagram or Jim on TikTok, and there's a lot of good stuff there. They're doing some brilliant stuff, and I can't wait to see you guys are like touring the country or whatever, or like you have like a show that you put together of a cappella groups or something. I can't wait to see what you guys do to actually like build off of this idea because I think it's genius. It's so cool. The arrangements are so good. I mean, it's just like, I mean, I remember when the Frozen one came out when I was in Frozen and it had the whole building shut down.

People were like, yeah, you gotta watch who are these guys and what the hell are they doing? And so that was really cool. And I was like, I kind of, I don't, I don't know him, but I know him. And like, you know, so it's, it's, you're like, we hung out on college football Saturday once.

[3:29] Dan Tracy: Exactly. Exactly. No, no, no. Uh, it really was wild. I, it's, I'm still pretty dumbfounded about the whole thing, and we are totally unsure of what any next steps would be now that there is no touring. There is no like getting in a van with my two good friends and just like going to venues in small cities across the country. Um, like with the, with the success of "Into the Unknown," and then subsequently, like mostly it's mostly just the big three. It's like we call them. It's like, uh, "Into the Unknown," "Defying Gravity," and "When the Party's Over." We have a manager now, and we have a booking agent, and we have all these things that like don't really matter at the moment. You know what I mean? And it's because like there are parallels as well to being an actor on stage. So we're, we're just making content and hoping that eventually we can get out there for people.

[4:27] Dan Tracy: That's well, I can't wait to sidebar about that because I want to hear more about what that is. But let's get into what we called you here today for, which is to talk about Phantom of the Opera, which is our musical we love this week.

[4:41] Joe Carroll: Jim's singing as if we haven't already played 14 versions of this song.

[4:47] Jim Hogan: Leave it. That's what I'm gonna do for the whole hour. I'm just gonna keep, I'm just gonna underscore the whole thing. Just like quietly. And then you guys can talk about it, and I'll just be in the background, you know.

[5:01] Dan Tracy: That's a great idea. As I like plow through the history and all of these facts, we can just underscore it. So it's super epic. So fun. This was so fun this week to revisit this show. Um, that I know was so is so iconic and was so iconic for all of us, you know, growing up in theater and you know, the longest running musical of all time. We're gonna get to all of this stuff. Um, but Jim, why don't we, can we talk about your history with it a little bit?

[5:27] Jim Hogan: Yeah. Um, I was a replacement in the ensemble of the national tour of Phantom of the Opera, the spectacular new Phantom of the Opera.

[5:40] Dan Tracy: So what does that mean, the spectacular new? What did they, what made it spectacular new?

[5:44] Jim Hogan: Yeah, so I, I want to say in like 2010, Cameron Macintosh put together a version of Phantom of the Opera with a different director and a different choreographer and a different set designer that toured the UK and was relatively successful, but obviously, you know, they still had the original, what they call the brilliant original, uh, still running, uh, still running on the West End. So this was like a tour of the UK, right? And I think it went so well that since there was no tour of Phantom of the Opera running in the US at the time. Cameron was like, well, let's just take the spectacular new over to the States. And it launched in I want to say like September of 2013. And I joined in September of 2016 and had three different stints there, um, totaling probably, uh, just under two years.

[6:32] Dan Tracy: Wow.

[6:32] Jim Hogan: Um, but it was still a massive production. We were touring with 20 trucks at a time, two were advanced sets going to the next, uh, city while we were in the current city, and it was just like, whoa, whoa, that's crazy.

[6:46] Dan Tracy: 20 trucks? The original is like 35, right?

[6:48] Jim Hogan: Yeah, oh yeah. The brilliant original is definitely bigger.

[6:51] Dan Tracy: You mean semi-trucks, yeah.

[6:53] Jim Hogan: 18 Wheelers.

[6:54] Dan Tracy: Yeah, yeah.

[6:54] Jim Hogan: So Waitress, I think we had four. Yeah, Sound of Music, we had three.

[6:58] Dan Tracy: Right.

[6:59] Jim Hogan: Uh, yeah. And, uh, definitely one on my non-equity tour of Spring Awakening. So that's kind of like giving you, uh, some kind of, yeah, just, you know, super low tech.

[7:09] Dan Tracy: This is a super low tech, low budget.

[7:12] Jim Hogan: Yeah, low buffer.

[7:14] Dan Tracy: Yeah, yeah, totally. We are going to, uh, launch right in here. Uh, we're gonna talk about all things Phantom, and I'm going to go as fast as I can so that we can get to the good stuff. History with Dan, rapid fire, fast as quickly as possible.

[7:32] Jim Hogan: Yeah. The, uh, thing for you all to know is that before we get into spoilers and talk too much about kind of what is going on in the show, you can watch that Royal Albert 25th anniversary concert version that we were referencing, starring Sierra Boggess and Ramin Karimloo. Um, you can rent it from YouTube and you can rent the film, the feature film from 2004 starring Emmy Rossum and Gerard Butler from, uh, Amazon Prime. It is different.

[8:00] Dan Tracy: Yeah, the movie is different than the stage production as it usually is, so just keep that in mind.

[8:05] Jim Hogan: But they're both wonderful for their own reasons. Um, Phantom began previews in London at Her Majesty's Theater on October 9th, 1986, directed by Hal Prince, which is why we're covering it because last week we were talking about another Hal Prince show. It's based, it's based on a novel by Gaston Leroux. Uh, it's a French novel from this by the same name, which lots of people disparage that the novel is trash, including Andrew Lloyd Webber, which is hilarious. Um, it's kind of all over the place. It's like it doesn't really know what it is. It wasn't commercially successful at the time, but got it. He read the book and ultimately he was like, this could be something. So, uh, the West End production was fairly successful at the time.

It wasn't a huge hit. Nobody knew it was gonna play as long as it has. Of course, but they transferred it to Broadway in 1988, and it opened on January 26th of 1988, starring the original stars of the West End production, Michael Crawford and Sarah Brightman, who was married to Andrew Lloyd Webber at the time.

[9:06] Dan Tracy: Michael Crawford, Hello Dolly, not a big deal.

[9:10] Jim Hogan: Cornelius and Hello Dolly in the movie, look it up.

[9:13] Dan Tracy: Yes. Also, just quickly because I'm talking, um, Alex Fink did Unmasked at Paper Mill, and it was all about Andrew Lloyd Webber stuff. The, uh, Andrew Lloyd Webber said the first preview of Phantom in London was, it was so technically crazy. The first preview went technically perfect. It's the only show that he's ever done where there were no changes made from the first preview until opening night.

[9:35] Jim Hogan: Wow.

[9:36] Dan Tracy: What? Which will be even more impressive when we talk about all of the crazy stuff that goes on in this show in a second.

[9:43] Jim Hogan: Right, right.

[9:44] Dan Tracy: Um, it's currently the longest running show in Broadway history. It's still open. It has played 13,370 performances, give or take. The next closest is the 1996 Chicago Revival, which has run 9,692 performances, followed by Lion King and Cats. Cats was the longest-running show of all time, but has been surpassed by Phantom quite substantially. It has played over 140 million people in 35 countries in 166 cities around the world, and it's grossed an estimated six billion dollars with a beat.

[10:19] Jim Hogan: Billions on the thousand million.

[10:21] Dan Tracy: Um, it's hard for me to comprehend that sometimes because it's a lot of money. It's performed in 15 languages. We're gonna play a language game later in the episode. Stick around for that. No. There are 19 official cast recordings. That's which is probably the four English casts and then the 15 languages. The original cast album was the first British musical in history to be number one on the music charts. It sold more than 40 million albums worldwide. There's 125 cast and crew and orchestra members directly involved in each production on Broadway and in the West End. Obviously, Jim's production we've recognized has been, uh, pared down a little bit, but still lots of people employed. Um, Phantom has been the largest single generator of income and jobs in Broadway and US theatrical history. I'm sure someday it will be replaced by Hamilton, but for now, this is commerce.

[11:17] Jim Hogan: I mean, maybe, maybe if Hamilton, if Phantom just keeps running, you know, Hamilton will never catch it in that way. You know, like if they both just continue to run and Phantom runs on Broadway for 50 years, which it very well may, you know, that's a, that's a super cool stat. The largest single generator of income and jobs in Broadway theatrical history.

[11:35] Dan Tracy: That's, that's yeah, that's really cool.

[11:36] Jim Hogan: Yeah, that's wild. Um, they've, it won, uh, the original production in the West End won four Oliviers, including Best Actor for Michael Crawford and Best Musical. Uh, it won seven Tony Awards. Best musical, best lead actor, Michael Crawford, best featured actress, Judy Kaye, who played Carlotta, uh, best director, best scenic design and costume design and lighting design and choreography.

[12:01] Dan Tracy: Um, the choreography is like completely insane because it is like that original, like it's a full ballet, it's a full opera. You know what I mean? Like it's just, yeah, it's remarkable.

[12:11] Jim Hogan: Yes. It's pretty wild. Um, and we don't really cover that a lot, uh, in this, but it's, it because it's such a vocal show, but there it's a really beautiful thing to watch. Um, critically, uh, mixed to okay, it's funny because if you read parts of Frank Rich's Times review, it's glowing, but then it's filled with this like him despising Andrew Lloyd Webber, but still like recognizing that the show has a lot of, uh, entertainment value, right?

[12:43] Dan Tracy: Yeah, so it says what one finds instead, uh, uh, it what one finds is an Andrew Lloyd Webber project, long on pop professionalism and melody, but impoverished of artistic personality and passion.

[12:57] Jim Hogan: But it's redeemed by Hal Prince and Maria Björnson and the mesmerizing, who Maria Björnson is the designer and the mesmerizing actor Michael Crawford.

[13:07] Dan Tracy: Uh, Sarah Brightman did not get very good reviews, so we'll we'll move right along on that.

[13:12] Jim Hogan: Uh, historically in the world at the time in 1987, for those of you who are born after that date, October 19th of 1987, so the few months prior was the start of that 1987 recession. That was that Black Monday day where the Dow Jones fell 22%.

[13:31] Dan Tracy: So pretty impressive, actually, that they made it through this recession to get to the point where they were, but they, you know, they were a commercially successful show in London that transferred over, so I guess that kind of makes sense.

[13:40] Jim Hogan: Ronald Reagan was the president at the time. There have been five presidents since Phantom of the Opera opened.

[13:46] Dan Tracy: Faith by George Michael was like, yeah.

[13:50] Jim Hogan: Like Faith by George Michael was the most popular song on the Billboard chart in 1988.

[13:55] Dan Tracy: Oh, I guess it wasn't.

[13:57] Jim Hogan: Yeah, Rain Man won the Academy Award for best movie.

[14:02] Dan Tracy: And the first known computer virus was used in 1988.

[14:09] Jim Hogan: As well as the first intercontinental internet link was made between the United States and Europe.

[14:16] Joe Carroll: So before then, Europe and the United States were on separate internet lines, which is pretty crazy to think about now.

[14:22] Dan Tracy: How far along this has gone.

[14:25] Joe Carroll: From what we can find about the development of the show, uh, Andrew Lloyd Weber first approached Jim Steinman.

[14:33] Jim Hogan: Mm-hmm.

[14:34] Joe Carroll: Jim Steinman, you may know.

[14:39] Jim Hogan: The Meatloaf musical.

[14:42] Joe Carroll: Yep.

[14:43] Jim Hogan: A Meatloaf album that has been turned into a musical.

[14:46] Joe Carroll: Didn't you do a concert of his music at 54 Below?

[14:49] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[14:49] Jim Hogan: And I was in for Bad Out of Hell a bunch of times, too.

[14:52] Joe Carroll: I also read something, and this may not be true, but that Cameron McIntosh also approached Schoenberg, Michael Schoenberg and Boublil, the Les Miz guys, to write this.

[15:05] Jim Hogan: To actually write the music to Phantom.

[15:08] Joe Carroll: That was on the depths of the internet. I don't know if that's true.

[15:10] Jim Hogan: Interesting.

[15:11] Joe Carroll: If like because Macintosh, it was Macintosh's idea.

[15:14] Jim Hogan: And then approached.

[15:15] Joe Carroll: Interesting.

[15:16] Jim Hogan: Maybe.

[15:16] Joe Carroll: I don't know. That could be. We could be spreading some gossip.

[15:18] Jim Hogan: I don't know if that's true.

[15:19] Joe Carroll: That might be fake news, Joe.

[15:20] Jim Hogan: Okay, okay.

[15:21] Joe Carroll: Well. However, Alan J. Lerner was actually writing the music for the piece and became very ill and withdrew, but he wrote a lot of the song Masquerade, which is interesting because Masquerade doesn't totally fit.

[15:37] Jim Hogan: Totally.

[15:37] Joe Carroll: Jimmy.

[15:38] Jim Hogan: Jim's making a face. Does that sound false?

[15:40] Joe Carroll: Um, I feel like because initially I was like, yes, I've heard this, some of this before. Especially the Lerner thing.

[15:47] Jim Hogan: But so is he still credited on Masquerade?

[15:52] Joe Carroll: Like, like would his name be on my sheet music for Masquerade?

[15:56] Jim Hogan: No.

[15:56] Joe Carroll: Oh interesting. Well, it actually, that's interesting. It's not obviously on the credits for the show for the production, but it may be on the ASCAP.

[16:05] Jim Hogan: Like you'd have to look at like the BMI, like sort of like the very specific.

[16:09] Joe Carroll: Cause even like in Hamilton, there is stuff that like credited on uh and I want to do a whole show about this, but credited on uh the ten dual commandments is the notorious B.I.G. is credited with the ten crack commandments, which the song was based on.

[16:25] Jim Hogan: So like but then the music and lyrics for the show are just Lin-Manuel Miranda, right?

[16:31] Joe Carroll: So I wonder if that's something that like if you really were to look at like the jacket for the album, if Alan J. Lerner is actually credited with writing it.

[16:41] Jim Hogan: I would love to know that. That'd be that's really interesting.

[16:44] Joe Carroll: Yeah. Uh because then obviously uh Richard Stilgoe comes in and writes a lot of the lyrics, and Charles Hart, who was an unknown lyricist at the time, rewrote a lot of the lyrics and wrote the original lyrics for Think of Me. So there's like a whole kind of it was kind of like all over the place as far as who made it. And I think Joe has a special segment about that, perhaps moving forward.

[17:09] Dan Tracy: But we can get to that when we get into the music section.

[17:11] Joe Carroll: Okay, okay, cool, cool, cool.

[17:12] Dan Tracy: Yeah, let's keep rolling. We'll talk about the creative team and who was involved. Obviously, Hal Prince directed, which we're not really gonna talk about here because we talked plenty about him last week.

[17:24] Joe Carroll: So you can go listen to the company episode if you want to learn more about it.

[17:27] Dan Tracy: Or our Hal Prince episode from last year, check it out.

[17:30] Joe Carroll: Like the member when he passed away, we did a whole episode about his stuff.

[17:30] Dan Tracy: That's true, his stuff. So we could, you know, check that out as well. You can check that out too.

[17:36] Joe Carroll: Um, but I did want to mention something that I think is part of the reason why the show has done so well, and that is this idea that watching the stage production, there's so much surprise that he built into this piece where you really don't know what's gonna happen next.

[17:58] Dan Tracy: And it's obviously got this fire and there's uh flames coming out of the floor, and but and there's so much contrast in like things really settle and then things explode, and you really don't expect what's the next thing's just gonna.

[18:12] Joe Carroll: I was so struck watching the scene at the end of the show when he's got Raul in the noose, spoilers, and then he decides whether or not he's gonna hurt Raul or let him go in that moment.

[18:25] Dan Tracy: And I really was like, I have no idea what's gonna happen. I didn't remember what was gonna happen.

[18:29] Joe Carroll: Yeah, it's like I have no idea. This is so good. I'm so like at the edge of my seat, you know.

[18:35] Dan Tracy: And we forget that uh there's a lot of craft here. It's not just commercial hype, it's a lot of really, really brilliant storytelling that has been built into this show that still stands today, 30 years later.

[18:49] Joe Carroll: Totally, totally. A lot of like almost ancient theatrical tricks, you know, where it's like it's just like classic, you know, you sort of stage presence stuff, you know, the fire, like you said, the sleight of hand stuff, the you know, stuff that you know, look over here as the phantom disappears over there. Like it's very basic, but it's so effective.

[19:07] Dan Tracy: And I mean, getting into the section where we talk, you know, I think do we want to talk about our response to it, like what we love about it?

[19:14] Joe Carroll: Um, I skipped over that, didn't I?

[19:17] Dan Tracy: Yeah, because what I'd I really want to hear, Jim, like how you because not only working on the piece, but like where you found where where it found you, you know, because I saw it when I was like 12. I saw it in Chicago. I will never forget, you know, it's one of these things where, like, if you haven't seen it, it's been around Broadway for 30 years. Like, we're gonna spoil some stuff, but like, we're not gonna spoil some stuff.

[19:36] Joe Carroll: Um, like, like when the boat comes out, when the boat, you know, the whole boat sequence, like, how do you know I'm like 12 years old, I'm like, how do they do that? Then he disappears.

[19:36] Dan Tracy: How do they do you know, into the ch into the whatever? How do they do that? You know, all of this stuff is just like still, and it still totally works.

[19:53] Jim Hogan: Mm-hmm.

[19:53] Dan Tracy: Anyway, I just I didn't loved it.

[19:57] Jim Hogan: Oh my god. I mean, on a general sense, like Phantom was my first musical.

[20:04] Jim Hogan: Uh it was my first musical I ever saw on Broadway.

[20:07] Jim Hogan: It that movie musical was like definitely one of the first movie musicals I had ever seen in my life.

[20:13] Jim Hogan: Uh I bought the movie album and bumped it in my car for all four years of high school.

[20:19] Jim Hogan: Like I feel like people have their like Yeah, I feel like people have their like their spectacle musical, right? That like is there in to the industry really entirely.

[20:31] Jim Hogan: So mine was definitely Phantom.

[20:33] Jim Hogan: I didn't even really know Les Miz until like college, and I barely know Miss Saigon right now.

[20:38] Jim Hogan: So like I'm definitely like a Phantom guy.

[20:40] Joe Carroll: I don't want to generalize, but I do feel like it's kind of one or the other. Like you're kind of like in the Phantom camp or in the Les Miz camp when you're like 10 years old and you're like, oh my god, I didn't even know this was possible.

[20:49] Jim Hogan: I feel that way too.

[20:50] Dan Tracy: Um so that is it's definitely it feels like my musical.

[20:56] Jim Hogan: Um I don't know. I think when I moved to New York in 2014, I was like, you know, they always want, you know, it just came out as college and they they want you to know what your type is, and they want you to like uh be prepared for for things that you can be in right away at that moment.

[21:15] Jim Hogan: And never, never in my entire life was I like they're gonna put me in Phantom of the Opera.

[21:20] Jim Hogan: I was like, there's no way. I can't cover anyone.

[21:24] Jim Hogan: I like I could maybe be like the auctioneer in 20 years. Like there is no spot for me.

[21:30] Joe Carroll: The auctioneer in the 25th anniversary thing is Earl Carpenter, who played Javert for like a gajillion years.

[21:38] Jim Hogan: He just comes out and he's like, lot 665.

[21:41] Joe Carroll: And I was like, that dude.

[21:42] Jim Hogan: And he did, I'm pretty sure he did Les Miz with my wife Alex on Broadway.

[21:46] Joe Carroll: I'm pretty sure that's the.

[21:46] Jim Hogan: Oh, no kidding.

[21:47] Joe Carroll: Yeah, that's awesome.

[21:48] Jim Hogan: So, like, you could totally be the auctioneer.

[21:50] Joe Carroll: But this is my point.

[21:52] Jim Hogan: Like, I was doing uh what was I doing?

[21:56] Jim Hogan: I th oh my gosh. Actually, we'll tie Ben Crawford into this later.

[22:00] Jim Hogan: But I was doing a show with Ben Crawford when I got who is the current Phantom of the Opera on Broadway.

[22:05] Jim Hogan: When I got a text from one of my very good friends who at that moment was the resident director on the Phantom Tour.

[22:13] Jim Hogan: Um, this is probably like late 2015.

[22:17] Jim Hogan: Um, and he was like, hey, we have a track opening for the Raoul understudy, and I was like, la la la la la la la.

[22:24] Jim Hogan: Like, no, that's not gonna He was like, I think you should call your agent and see if you can get um an appointment.

[22:31] Jim Hogan: And I was like, okay, uh, sure.

[22:34] Jim Hogan: I like, you know, text my agent.

[22:35] Jim Hogan: He's like, yeah, we'll push for you.

[22:37] Joe Carroll: Which like I love my agents to death, but like, what does that mean?

[22:41] Jim Hogan: You know, and so like when I got a call that was like, okay, you have an appointment, I was like, fine.

[22:50] Jim Hogan: Okay, fine. I I don't know why.

[22:52] Jim Hogan: I was like really holding back this thing because I was just like, there's no shot.

[22:52] Jim Hogan: There's no shot.

[22:56] Dan Tracy: And then I went in and I only had one audition.

[22:58] Jim Hogan: It was like um uh a dance call first with three other people um total.

[23:07] Jim Hogan: One was a Christine cover, one was obviously the Raoul who was like up against me, and then another person was probably a potential Carlotta cover as a guest.

[23:17] Jim Hogan: Uh we did a movement call, and then I stayed and got changed and uh did the Raoul stuff and went home, and I didn't hear for like I think three weeks.

[23:29] Jim Hogan: And then they were like, Yeah, come on out, you're the Raoul cover.

[23:32] Joe Carroll: And I was like, wow, okay, fine.

[23:35] Dan Tracy: I should I would I mean I would die to hear you sing all that stuff.

[23:38] Jim Hogan: Well, we're gonna get to our dream casting section in a minute. Your name might come come up again.

[23:43] Joe Carroll: So I don't know if I answered your question.

[23:45] Jim Hogan: No, that was it.

[23:46] Dan Tracy: That was okay. Dan, what was yours? How did you discover this thing?

[23:49] Dan Tracy: Uh I went to see Phantom in 2004, four, three, four, yeah, at a touring at Providence Performing Arts Center, and I will never forget the heat that came off the stage when the fire happened.

[24:05] Joe Carroll: Yep, yep.

[24:06] Dan Tracy: It definitely was not my kind of musical.

[24:08] Dan Tracy: I was definitely not the kind of kid who was listening to legit musicals.

[24:12] Dan Tracy: I'm the adult who listens to legit musicals.

[24:15] Dan Tracy: And like last night I was texting Mike Ruckles, my voice teacher, being like, Can we work on Phantom?

[24:20] Dan Tracy: Because like this is so sick.

[24:21] Dan Tracy: I want to do this so bad.

[24:23] Joe Carroll: I feel like both of you are perfect.

[24:26] Dan Tracy: Yeah, well, we we've both got we've gone in before, like side by side going in for the last time that Raoul cover or whatever.

[24:33] Jim Hogan: The last time I went in, we we went in together.

[24:35] Dan Tracy: We were what we were sitting out there together.

[24:37] Joe Carroll: Um Phantom's one of those shows, and I'm a huge fan of Mary Sugarman who casts it.

[24:41] Joe Carroll: And Phantom's just one of those shows.

[24:42] Joe Carroll: I've auditioned for it probably four times.

[24:45] Joe Carroll: And it just is not, it's never matched up.

[24:47] Dan Tracy: And like I get it, but I see the like the pictures of John Riddle right now, like backstage, like getting drenched in water before he like goes back out of it.

[24:58] Joe Carroll: You know what I mean?

[24:59] Joe Carroll: Like, like I'm like, I kind of want to really do this.

[25:02] Dan Tracy: So I think I gotta call Mike Ruckles, too.

[25:04] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I don't know. You have like such Patrick Wilson vibes for me, Joe.

[25:07] Joe Carroll: I feel like that's definitely something you could you could definitely do.

[25:10] Dan Tracy: Yes.

[25:10] Dan Tracy: Uh what do we say? We jump back in here and uh keep going.

[25:14] Joe Carroll: Yep, yep.

[25:14] Dan Tracy: So we were I skipped over that section and I apologize, but maybe I'll uh fix it in the edit, maybe not.

[25:20] Joe Carroll: Who knows?

[25:21] Dan Tracy: Who knows?

[25:22] Dan Tracy: Um the shows written uh book of music were written by Andrew Lloyd Weber, who, if you don't know, you must live under a rock.

[25:28] Joe Carroll: Lloyd Joseph and the Amazing.

[25:31] Dan Tracy: Correct. He wrote uh Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, Jesus Christ Superstar, Evita, Cats, Sunset Boulevard, School of Rock, etc.

[25:39] Joe Carroll: etc.

[25:39] Dan Tracy: He has a couple shows in development right now. The lyricist for the for this show was Charles Hart, who has only written Bend It Like Beckham since.

[25:50] Joe Carroll: Uh the book was written by Richard Stilgoe, whose other credit includes Starlight Express.

[25:57] Dan Tracy: The show was produced by Cameron McIntosh, who we've mentioned a few times. Cameron McIntosh was the lead producer of Cats.

[26:04] Joe Carroll: He then approached Bob Ellen Schoenberg to bring Les Miz, which was then just a concept album to the stage, which opened in 1985, and Phantom opened the next year.

[26:17] Dan Tracy: Obviously, he then was a large name in the business and still is.

[26:22] Joe Carroll: He opened Miss Saigon in 1989.

[26:25] Dan Tracy: He brought Mary Poppins to the stage with Disney in 2006.

[26:30] Joe Carroll: He then was involved with all of the shows we just mentioned that have been revived several times in the US and in the UK.

[26:36] Dan Tracy: And he's currently one of the producers of Hamilton in London.

[26:41] Joe Carroll: Isn't he also in like 10 theaters in London too?

[26:44] Dan Tracy: I think I like the owner.

[26:47] Joe Carroll: It's something like that.

[26:47] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[26:48] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[26:48] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[26:49] Joe Carroll: Really useful groups.

[26:50] Dan Tracy: He is the conglomerate of the West End.

[26:53] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[26:53] Dan Tracy: Um so as I mentioned earlier, Maria Bjornsson designed the costumes and the set.

[27:00] Joe Carroll: And she won the Tony for both, which I don't know how many times that's couldn't have been a lot.

[27:07] Dan Tracy: Um she designed all of the sets.

[27:10] Joe Carroll: She designed over 200 costumes, including every single gown that's worn in the masquerade sequence, which is pretty uh magnificent.

[27:17] Jim Hogan: Costumes are insane.

[27:18] Joe Carroll: They're insane.

[27:20] Dan Tracy: There's some number about how many beads are in the costumes and in the chandelier, but I couldn't get an exact one, so I just left that out.

[27:27] Jim Hogan: He used to know it.

[27:28] Joe Carroll: Damn it.

[27:29] Jim Hogan: Really?

[27:30] Joe Carroll: It's one billion.

[27:32] Jim Hogan: No, I don't know.

[27:34] Joe Carroll: It's six billion, one for every dollar that has been made.

[27:38] Jim Hogan: Right. Exactly.

[27:39] Joe Carroll: Um, obviously, she designed the chandelier, the subterranean gondola, the staircase.

[27:45] Jim Hogan: Um there are 150 trapdoors in the production at the Majestic Theater.

[27:50] Dan Tracy: There are 24 surround speakers, which isn't totally in her category of things that she would worry about, but I think it adds to the ambiance, the um the ambiance.

[28:01] Joe Carroll: The ambiance of the vibe of this show.

[28:05] Dan Tracy: Adds to the ambient.

[28:07] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[28:08] Dan Tracy: And um, so like I said, there's there's uh 230 costumes in the production.

[28:13] Joe Carroll: There's 111 wigs.

[28:16] Jim Hogan: That's crazy.

[28:18] Joe Carroll: And the show uses it's yeah, right. Just just for for everyone's brains, there's like eight wigs and Waitress, and it was like the most complicated thing ever.

[28:27] Jim Hogan: So think of 111 wigs.

[28:29] Dan Tracy: Um and the show uses 400 pounds of dry ice to create the grotto, the lake. I affect when I was when I was doing once, uh, the stage door to the Jacobs is next to the stage door to the Majestic, and I'd be walking in sometimes when they were doing the deliveries of dry ice, and seeing this stuff come in, they have these massive coolers, ice cool, like outside, and these the they they bring in, and it's like they're bringing in the lake with them because there's like fo the fog and like all of these things, and then they're they're pulling the big pieces of fog out. It was crazy to see. It's just like stacked up everywhere.

[29:05] Jim Hogan: In the work on the road. So I mean, I based on the numbers you've been saying, I would say like we are pretty much exactly half of like everything from casting crew to I I don't know about the um dry ice, but like what other you were throwing out numbers about um like well we don't have any trapdoors, but uh the amount of fire, like uh just it it feels like uh maybe an oversimplification, but I feel like half is probably a solid number in terms of like everything.

[29:35] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[29:35] Jim Hogan: The wigs, the like you know, just the costumes in general.

[29:39] Dan Tracy: Yeah, that's a guess, but totally. I bet you wouldn't even notice the difference either.

[29:43] Jim Hogan: I mean, I have I have never seen something that large, and I don't think I ever will.

[29:48] Dan Tracy: Uh right.

[29:50] Jim Hogan: Right. It's still massive.

[29:52] Dan Tracy: It's still so much bigger than anything comparable.

[29:55] Jim Hogan: Yeah, that's a lot.

[29:55] Dan Tracy: Yeah. Because you're also going into spaces that are different sizes and stuff, too.

[30:00] Jim Hogan: So it just makes it easier to move. Um, although what's cool about touring houses for those who don't know is that they're usually bigger than Broadway houses.

[30:07] Dan Tracy: Right.

[30:07] Jim Hogan: So just a little fun fact.

[30:09] Dan Tracy: How I can't imagine how jammed these people are into the majestic. Like it's pretty crazy to think about.

[30:13] Jim Hogan: Yep.

[30:14] Dan Tracy: Uh so now we're gonna get into the cast, the uh pretty quickly here, talk a little bit about some of the casting and in our dream casting in this casting segment. There are over 400 actors who have appeared in the New York production.

[30:28] Jim Hogan: That was as of a few years ago, so I'm sure it's updated. That's a lot of jobs.

[30:32] Dan Tracy: Um 15 actors have played the Phantom.

[30:35] Jim Hogan: That number is also probably wrong. But it obviously was originally Michael Crawford, Hugh Pinero uh played the Phantom, uh, Howard McGillen played the Phantom, Peter Yoback made his Broadway debut as the Phantom, Norm Lewis was the first black phantom, James Barber played the Phantom, and obviously Ben Crawford right now is playing the Phantom.

[30:53] Dan Tracy: Ramin Caramle, who does it in the 25th anniversary, did I wanna say he definitely did West End, and I think he did the North American tour or the Canadian tour or something, but he never did it on Broadway.

[31:06] Jim Hogan: He made his Broadway debut in Les Miz, which is pretty crazy because once that guy arrived, everyone was like, Oh, he's the star.

[31:14] Dan Tracy: Great.

[31:15] Jim Hogan: Didn't take much.

[31:16] Dan Tracy: Yeah, but he was much later in his career.

[31:18] Jim Hogan: Just uh so uh Allie Ewalt was the first uh Asian American woman to play Christine, which is a cool fact.

[31:28] Dan Tracy: I think that there's we'll get into this for me when we talk about like what's aged about the show. And I think s some of the casting seems to have been a bit behind.

[31:38] Jim Hogan: Uh, but obviously those things will probably work themselves, hopefully, work themselves out as the show continues.

[31:44] Dan Tracy: Um I've got a quick quiz for you guys.

[31:47] Jim Hogan: Cool.

[31:49] Dan Tracy: I'm nervous. Man, we need a a sound effect for quizzes, Joe.

[31:52] Joe Carroll: Don't dunno.

[31:55] Dan Tracy: So who there was one actor who played two 2500 performances as the Phantom. Who is that actor?

[32:05] Jim Hogan: George How Howard McGillen, I would guess.

[32:08] Joe Carroll: Shit.

[32:09] Jim Hogan: No, uh uh uh George Lee Andrews.

[32:13] Joe Carroll: No.

[32:13] Jim Hogan: Jim was right.

[32:14] Joe Carroll: Jim McGillen, let's go.

[32:16] Jim Hogan: Wait, as the Phantom?

[32:16] Joe Carroll: Oh, I'm sorry.

[32:17] Jim Hogan: How yeah, Howard McGillen.

[32:18] Joe Carroll: I'm sorry. I was thinking about that the guy who is the longest running.

[32:22] Jim Hogan: He did the show for 25 years or whatever.

[32:24] Joe Carroll: Oh, I see.

[32:31] Jim Hogan: Yes, it was Howard McGillan, correct. You win a prize.

[32:34] Joe Carroll: Being on this show. I don't know what it is. I'm bad at prizes.

[32:38] Jim Hogan: A guys who like musicals gift basket that you'll never get.

[32:42] Joe Carroll: Joe, you shouldn't bring that up.

[32:44] Jim Hogan: Um so here we go. Keep going with some casting.

[32:49] Dan Tracy: Um, Judy Kay was the original Carlotta, she won a Tony. She went on to play Emma Goldman in the original Ragtime, and she was the original Rosie in Mamma Mia, and she won a Tony for Nice Work If You Can Get It.

[33:01] Jim Hogan: Sarah Brightman.

[33:02] Dan Tracy: We did Cinderella together.

[33:04] Jim Hogan: Oh, did you?

[33:05] Dan Tracy: Yeah, we were Cinderella and Broadway.

[33:08] Jim Hogan: Cool.

[33:08] Dan Tracy: Yep.

[33:09] Jim Hogan: Um, Sarah Brightman made her West End debut in Cats, where she met Andrew Led Weber, whom she then married and then very publicly divorced after playing Christine on Broadway.

[33:20] Dan Tracy: Uh and the movie rights fell apart because of that divorce.

[33:27] Jim Hogan: So the movie was going to be made in the 90s and then wasn't because the rights were tied up in the divorce settlement.

[33:34] Dan Tracy: So that's what delayed it.

[33:36] Jim Hogan: And uh we'll talk about that in a little in a little while. But um there's a little thing here that I got from Wikipedia about Sarah's being cast in the show, and they basically like actor's equity was not gonna let her play Christine, and they had to make a whole American actor forth.

[33:54] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[33:54] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[33:56] Dan Tracy: Because at that time, like there's like a trade bartering program where you need to trade talent back and forth, and so they had to work something out for that.

[34:03] Jim Hogan: Yeah, basically, like if we if if Americans go to the UK, then then uh, you know, um UK actors can come to Broadway.

[34:11] Dan Tracy: Um so a little casting history from the movie.

[34:14] Jim Hogan: Hugh Jackman was asked to play uh The Phantom, but was not available because he was filming Van Helsing.

[34:21] Dan Tracy: Uh also John Travolta was very close to playing the Phantom, but not as close as Antonio Benderas, who went so far as to do like public performances as the Phantom and then was replaced.

[34:33] Jim Hogan: Still on YouTube.

[34:34] Dan Tracy: Yeah, but you can find it, which I have seen.

[34:38] Jim Hogan: Uh, which we should not, we're not gonna plug that in here.

[34:40] Dan Tracy: We got too much to do.

[34:41] Jim Hogan: Yep.

[34:41] Dan Tracy: Katie Holmes was the front runner to play Christine in the film, uh, but she was replaced by Ann Hathaway, who then dropped out of the production because she was doing Princess Bride.

[34:52] Jim Hogan: The sequel.

[34:54] Dan Tracy: Um, Patrick Wilson was Raul by far the strongest voice in the show or in the movie.

[35:01] Jim Hogan: So good.

[35:02] Dan Tracy: Um at that time he'd already uh gotten his Tony Nam for Oklahoma, and he uh led the production of Full Monty and had done Angels in America.

[35:12] Jim Hogan: So he was like on his way to being a big star.

[35:16] Dan Tracy: A lister, a lister.

[35:23] Joe Carroll: Thank you for listening to our show. As always, you can check us out on Instagram at Guys Who Like Musicals or on Twitter at Musical Guys.

[35:30] Jim Hogan: And we just started a Patreon page, which is the best way for you to support our show.

[35:35] Joe Carroll: If you love our show, check it out. There's tons of cool opportunities for listeners on there.

[35:39] Jim Hogan: So check it out. Thank you so much. Love you.

[35:50] Joe Carroll: What if stream casting? Who's your uh who's your dream, Christy and Dream Phantom Joe Carroll? What do you say?

[35:56] Joe Carroll: Well, I've always thought that Alex Fink would be an amazing Christine. That's kind of a cop out. Um, but I thought that would be I think that she would be an amazing Christine. Um, you know, but we're we're kind of on a Josh Henry kick, but I would love to hear his phantom because he's got the like the ability to do the yelling.

[36:14] Jim Hogan: I think is so interesting.

[36:16] Joe Carroll: Like what I love about you know, Ramin in the in the 25th movie is that like frankly, he can yell. It's like a it's a guttural scream throughout all of the end and the final lair and like the end of act one, which we'll get to and all that stuff that we love. But it's like you can't just be like, you know, you've killed you my angel of music. Like you have to like lean, you know what I mean?

[36:38] Jim Hogan: Um then I love you.

[36:40] Joe Carroll: Actually, have this, so I'm gonna steal it, but but like Paul Nolan as as Raoul, like sign up.

[36:45] Jim Hogan: Oh, interesting.

[36:46] Joe Carroll: I was thinking of him as the phantom.

[36:47] Jim Hogan: So I was I was kind of having the same ideas because when you when they talk about the movie, they were like, We wanted this to be like a rock and roll phantom.

[36:54] Joe Carroll: Yeah, that's why they got Gerard Butler because they wanted it to be like sexier, and I think that's something that Ramin has in what he's doing, where he sounds like equal parts rock and roll star and equal parts uh classical legit singer.

[37:11] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[37:11] Joe Carroll: And I think that that is why like somebody like Paul Nolan or a Josh Young, who you know can do like rock screaming or Jim Hogan.

[37:19] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[37:19] Joe Carroll: Would be great as the Phantom because they have all of those things. Even like Jeremy Jordan, too, which like I would pick Jeremy Jordan to sing anything just because that's where my like taste is. But you know, somebody who's got that straight tony like nasty thing would be so sick to me.

[37:34] Jim Hogan: And I also think such a rock show, too.

[37:36] Joe Carroll: Like you don't you forget that like you know, like all of the the phantom of the opera, the song is like a rock and roll electric guitar number.

[37:43] Jim Hogan: Oh, yeah.

[37:43] Joe Carroll: You know what I mean?

[37:44] Jim Hogan: Exactly.

[37:45] Joe Carroll: So exactly.

[37:45] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[37:46] Joe Carroll: Um, and I would do I would love to see some uh Christines of color.

[37:51] Jim Hogan: So I would love to see like a Soleya Pfeiffer or Brittany Coleman.

[37:55] Joe Carroll: Um or Brittany Johnson, that's the girl who's in uh Wicked, yeah.

[38:00] Jim Hogan: I think she would be great too.

[38:02] Joe Carroll: Uh I think they should probably make that move as soon as possible.

[38:06] Jim Hogan: IMO in my opinion.

[38:07] Joe Carroll: Yes, yes.

[38:08] Jim Hogan: Um, what do you think, Jim? What what are your choices?

[38:11] Jim Hogan: I think that until he was cast, I would have told you that Ben Crawford was my dream phantom. I just I have heard his stuff. Him and I have worked on a lot of um symphony shows together with the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra, and that guy can do anything.

[38:29] Joe Carroll: Uh and when he was cast, I was just thrilled for him, and I I know that he's doing such a killer job, but I haven't seen it.

[38:38] Jim Hogan: Uh, in terms of like a dream scenario, uh, I definitely would have said Josh Henry. I think that's would would blow my mind.

[38:45] Joe Carroll: I really think my dream phantom who has not done it, and to my knowledge is not scheduled to do it, would be Leslie Odom Jr.

[38:55] Jim Hogan: I think there is an opportunity there to make a shift into this like silky smooth tone while still having this like insane acting ability to just kind of go anywhere with it.

[39:10] Joe Carroll: Um I think that could could offer just a completely different side, and that's something I would I think I would pay a lot of money to say.

[39:19] Jim Hogan: He's very busy being a movie star.

[39:21] Joe Carroll: And that's the thing is who knows what he's up to. I mean, Pippasou, I think would make a terrific Christine.

[39:26] Jim Hogan: I mean Audra would make a would have would have would would have whatever made an amazing Christine.

[39:32] Joe Carroll: So I think you're totally right in terms of um an actress of color.

[39:36] Jim Hogan: Yeah at his time.

[39:37] Joe Carroll: Sure.

[39:38] Jim Hogan: Okay, let's get into the music boys.

[39:41] Joe Carroll: Do you want to hear my rendition of uh the Phantom of the Opera?

[39:47] Jim Hogan: Because I haven't done it yet.

[39:48] Joe Carroll: Sorry.

[39:48] Jim Hogan: Uh, this is I people have turned off this podcast.

[39:51] Joe Carroll: If you've made it this far, thank you.

[39:53] Jim Hogan: I'm sorry.

[39:54] Joe Carroll: I'm sorry.

[39:55] Jim Hogan: Um we tried to go fast and it didn't work.

[39:57] Joe Carroll: No, but we're we're doing okay.

[39:58] Jim Hogan: We're doing okay. Maybe we'll talk about the music first next time.

[40:03] Dan Tracy: Um the orchestra.

[40:05] Jim Hogan: Uh we we wrote this down. This is one of these things that I don't think people totally realize that, you know, on Broadway it's 29 pieces, right?

[40:12] Dan Tracy: Got that right.

[40:13] Jim Hogan: I don't know how many you guys had on the road, Tim, but the idea like shows on Broadway do not have 30 piece orchestras anymore.

[40:20] Dan Tracy: 28, 29.

[40:22] Jim Hogan: Yeah, 28, 29 pieces is is unheard of. And frankly, like you said, like barely 10, and everything on Synthesizer is kind of the norm.

[40:30] Dan Tracy: And it's really sad, you know.

[40:32] Jim Hogan: So, like, you know, to go and actually hear that score played, you know, eight times a week with with an actual 29 piece orchestra is just, I mean, it's it's really rare.

[40:41] Dan Tracy: So awesome.

[40:42] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[40:42] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[40:43] Jim Hogan: We had a how many, how many pieces did you have on the road?

[40:45] Joe Carroll: I think we had about 14 or 15.

[40:47] Jim Hogan: Uh, we toured with um pretty good a music director and three um keyboard players.

[40:53] Joe Carroll: Um, so we we did have a lot um stripped down to synthesizers, but we did have plenty of like local musicians come in uh at each city.

[41:03] Jim Hogan: So that to me was still very impressive uh for the road. You know what I mean?

[41:07] Joe Carroll: People probably don't totally realize that like when touring shows go around to different cities, they tour with some musicians from New York and then they get local hires in the cities they're in, union musicians in the cities they're in to fill out the rest of the orchestra.

[41:20] Jim Hogan: So if you go see a production of fans for the opera in Denver, the majority of that orchestra is gonna be made up of musicians from Denver, which is like pretty cool.

[41:28] Joe Carroll: I think a lot of people would think that like they all come from New York, and that's not usually the case.

[41:31] Jim Hogan: Usually it's like the drummer, one keyboard player, and then like if it's gypsy, they'll bring the trumpet player or whatever.

[41:39] Joe Carroll: But like that's basically it.

[41:41] Jim Hogan: Right.

[41:42] Joe Carroll: Uh uh, pretty production numbers. Who's got a favorite production number?

[41:45] Jim Hogan: Oh, or a favorite like scenic moment will work.

[41:49] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[41:49] Jim Hogan: Yeah, Jim, you want to go first?

[41:51] Jim Hogan: I mean the transition into the final layer on the road is just one of the most like magical things I've ever seen. We have this 40 foot wall on stage that never leaves and it's on a turntable, so it's kind of like and it has so many uses and purposes. But as you get into the final layer, it kind of literally in front of you opens in a circular motion, and the phantom comes down in the boat from upstage down with the with the fog pouring.

[42:20] Dan Tracy: And so it's I think I think we were initially talking about the transition into the first layer uh in the brilliant original production. For me, it's the transition into the final layer, uh, where he's bringing Christine back down once more, and all this like uh it's just oh it's amazing.

[42:36] Joe Carroll: I love it.

[42:37] Jim Hogan: So so so that's it.

[42:39] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[42:40] Jim Hogan: And I just I find that like, first of all, I mean the classic, like the mask at the end, um, the way that the single spotlight hitting the mask, and that as Meg picks it up.

[42:40] Jim Hogan: As Meg picks it up, is just I'll never forget watching it for the first time when I was 12, and being like, even as a 12-year-old or whatever, being like, wait, that's that's the poster.

[42:59] Jim Hogan: That's the image.

[43:00] Jim Hogan: That's the image for the poster.

[43:02] Joe Carroll: Yes, you know, yes.

[43:03] Jim Hogan: And the you have that one rest.

[43:05] Jim Hogan: You have the cord where it's like wait one second.

[43:16] Joe Carroll: Curtain in.

[43:17] Jim Hogan: I'm like, are you kidding me? This is stunning.

[43:20] Joe Carroll: I know.

[43:21] Joe Carroll: Um, that's actually um Dan, do you have a favorite?

[43:23] Joe Carroll: Because that's a that's that's exactly into what the goosebump test now that we're talking about that the next section.

[43:29] Dan Tracy: Yeah, I would just say like the masquerade masquerade ball, which is like, you know, we were talking about choreography earlier.

[43:35] Dan Tracy: It's so simple and performative, and like Gilbert and Sullivan, yeah, right.

[43:41] Dan Tracy: The movie choreography is really kind of modern and cool, and they use these the fans.

[43:46] Jim Hogan: Yep.

[43:46] Dan Tracy: And they do a lot of really cool shapes with the fans and stuff.

[43:49] Dan Tracy: But in the old stage version, it's like pantomime, but you have these three groups doing pantomime at the same time.

[43:56] Dan Tracy: It's super epic.

[43:57] Jim Hogan: I think it's awesome.

[44:01] Joe Carroll: Everything's a different shame.

[44:06] Jim Hogan: Welcome there's another boss behind you.

[44:19] Joe Carroll: So can set the sea of smiles about.

[44:25] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[44:26] Joe Carroll: Goosebump test.

[44:27] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[44:28] Jim Hogan: So I think that this goes, this goes really the whole thing is just a massive goosebump test.

[44:33] Jim Hogan: Seriously.

[44:33] Jim Hogan: Um for me, it starts right off the get where it's just this slow, weird auction.

[44:40] Jim Hogan: And it's just these, like, okay, huh?

[44:42] Jim Hogan: You know, and and lot six, six, two, and six, six, three, and ten dollars for this.

[44:47] Jim Hogan: And you're kind of like, what are we watching?

[44:49] Jim Hogan: And then in the 25th anniversary version, Earl Carpenter, Javert, says, Perhaps we can frighten away the ghost with some illumination.

[44:57] Jim Hogan: Gentlemen, there goes the freaking chandelier.

[45:04] Jim Hogan: Perhaps we may frighten away the ghost of so many years ago with a little illumination gentleman.

[45:16] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I don't care who you are, man.

[45:18] Joe Carroll: That it just gets me.

[45:20] Jim Hogan: For sure.

[45:21] Jim Hogan: For sure.

[45:22] Joe Carroll: So mine was a lot of like Ramin screaming.

[45:28] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[45:28] Jim Hogan: I just am like a sucker for like a rock scream.

[45:32] Jim Hogan: And some of these uh when he's screaming, sing at her.

[45:36] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[45:36] Jim Hogan: In Phantom of the Opera.

[45:46] Jim Hogan: Sing.

[45:54] Joe Carroll: What about you, Jim?

[45:55] Jim Hogan: You know, it's it's kind of like playing off of Joe's the transition out of the um auction into the opera populaire is just is wild to me because you have it's really well staged on tour.

[46:12] Jim Hogan: Uh I would love to see it on Broadway again.

[46:14] Jim Hogan: Um you have this really old Ral, and you you barely know who he is until he starts like singing around the thing, and then you know, you um you have the the monkey, the music box and everything.

[46:25] Jim Hogan: But it's the it's after that.

[46:26] Jim Hogan: It's when he says gentlemen, that some people just kind of like magically turn into people in 18 like in the 1800s, right?

[46:38] Jim Hogan: So it's like you have this before your eyes, everything is changing until you have bop bop bop bop, and it's just Carlotta like it's just it just happens in a way that is like mind-blowing to me that they're able to like transition between those two time periods so perfectly.

[46:55] Jim Hogan: That would be that would be my goosebum moment for sure.

[46:58] Joe Carroll: Yeah, the the old-fashioned stage magic where they use it becomes cinematic.

[47:04] Jim Hogan: Totally, right?

[47:05] Jim Hogan: Because it's so well done, it like you pass time, but in a way that's so much harder than you can do it in a movie, because in a movie they can go close up, close up new time period, which they do really beautifully in the film, but it's it's really magic to see it.

[47:20] Joe Carroll: Um anybody have any favorite motifs?

[47:23] Jim Hogan: Um yes.

[47:26] Jim Hogan: Um, I think we wrote this down, Dan, that just well, here we the fucking organ.

[47:32] Jim Hogan: Yeah, like it just you gotta talk about it because it's it's iconic.

[47:37] Jim Hogan: Um but for me, Jim, you were alluding to it earlier, the slow chords underneath the end of music of the night that are then at the end of the show, that that slow that you're like, oh my god, give it to me, please give it to me.

[47:55] Joe Carroll: Like it's so yeah, yeah, yeah.

[47:57] Jim Hogan: Yeah, so that one is probably my favorite.

[48:00] Jim Hogan: I love the the music box too, playing the the monkey playing masquerade is yeah, it's that's super iconic.

[48:06] Joe Carroll: I started 20 francs.

[48:08] Joe Carroll: Fifteen then?

[48:09] Joe Carroll: 59 bid, 20, sir, thank you, 20, 25, thank you, madam.

[48:14] Joe Carroll: Thirty selling at 30 then 30 once, twice.

[48:18] Jim Hogan: I think that I mean I think those are two of the the only one we haven't really touched on is like um I guess is it technically from Yeah Yeah, like it's in the notes.

[48:36] Jim Hogan: What even is that?

[48:37] Jim Hogan: It's in what is it?

[48:39] Jim Hogan: It's in passive point of all the turn, right?

[48:41] Jim Hogan: Um it's just like sprinkled through.

[48:43] Jim Hogan: They I don't know how he came up with that.

[48:44] Jim Hogan: It's just genius.

[48:46] Joe Carroll: A collector's piece indeed.

[48:51] Jim Hogan: Every detail exactly as she said.

[48:56] Jim Hogan: She often spoke of you, my friend.

[49:00] Jim Hogan: Your velvet lining and your figurine half lead.

[49:06] Jim Hogan: Will you still play when all the rest are us?

[49:12] Joe Carroll: It's so that's the thing.

[49:13] Joe Carroll: Like I we were talking about it earlier today.

[49:15] Joe Carroll: It's just all over the map.

[49:16] Joe Carroll: Like, like, how was that the the line that he wrote under the rest of Tati, you know?

[49:21] Jim Hogan: Mm-hmm.

[49:22] Jim Hogan: Anyway.

[49:23] Jim Hogan: Um, it's pretty crazy.

[49:24] Jim Hogan: And it's like the this is one of those things where it's so and Sondheim will will scoff at the amount of music use in the show, but he does such a good job of threading songs through so that you'll never forget them.

[49:35] Jim Hogan: Like, that's an Andrew Lloyd Webber signature.

[49:37] Jim Hogan: You will never forget eight of the songs in this show.

[49:41] Jim Hogan: Because they're just gonna play over and over and over throughout the whole thing.

[49:44] Joe Carroll: Exactly.

[49:45] Joe Carroll: Um what about favorite lyrics, boys?

[49:47] Jim Hogan: Anything?

[49:47] Joe Carroll: Well, for me, like, there's all the classic ones, and you guys, I mean, we could touch on all of them, but the the the one that got me re-watching and re-listening to it this week was the hide your face so the world will never find you.

[49:58] Jim Hogan: That she sings it's like either he gets he sings it in in the blair.

[50:02] Jim Hogan: It's like, guy, if to me, this is a musical about like don't be a bully.

[50:07] Jim Hogan: You know, like the phantom gets so like first of all, there's like a whole bunch of like he's he's not necessarily a nice guy, but I was looking at it and I was like, just don't make fun of people for their disfigurement and like what makes them different, whatever, you know, because then they're gonna kidnap people and kill people and burn the opera down, you know, and it's like that to me was just so kind of that that weird human thing where you're like, you don't want to like the phantom, but you do, he's a really bad guy, but he's not.

[50:35] Joe Carroll: I'm your first time.

[51:14] Jim Hogan: Anyway, yeah, he's got that Svengali thing.

[51:16] Jim Hogan: It reminds me of uh where he's over controlling and he's terrible to Christine, but you sympathize with him.

[51:21] Jim Hogan: It's like the it's like Joker, the most recent Joker film.

[51:25] Jim Hogan: You know, it's got that those elements where you're like, wait, this doesn't really age well because I don't want to root for this guy, but also they do a pretty good job of making you see where he's coming from and making him likeable in the end because he does the right thing and all of those things.

[51:39] Joe Carroll: Totally.

[51:39] Joe Carroll: I'm a sucker for all I ask of you.

[51:41] Jim Hogan: Yep.

[51:42] Jim Hogan: Um, so all basically all the lyrics in that song are just right up my alley.

[51:47] Jim Hogan: I've always been a sucker for a romance, so and it's like you give it so human, it's so easy to deliver that text via singing, right?

[51:59] Jim Hogan: Because it's just like so conversational and kind of like everything you want to be given as an actor.

[52:05] Jim Hogan: I always loved that moment on the roof because like this this crazy girl, Christine.

[52:10] Jim Hogan: Are you kidding you're about to jump off this roof right now?

[52:13] Jim Hogan: Come on.

[52:13] Jim Hogan: And then you can just like use these lyrics so easily to kind of like calm her down.

[52:18] Joe Carroll: Uh I I totally agree.

[52:30] Jim Hogan: There you go, let me go to Christine.

[52:38] Jim Hogan: That's all I ask of.

[52:43] Jim Hogan: But one of the things that really got me that I just I had to bring up because especially like with a couple of singers, I remembered listening to music of the night for the first time.

[52:53] Jim Hogan: And when he's and he hits the sore in the middle of music of the night, and he floats the the A.

[53:01] Jim Hogan: Let your speech start to so I'm like, I was just learning.

[53:17] Jim Hogan: I remember I was like, I was again, I was like 12, 13 years old.

[53:19] Jim Hogan: I'm just learning about voice lessons and like falsetto and like what that is, whatever.

[53:23] Jim Hogan: So he hits this the note and his high in his faucet.

[53:25] Jim Hogan: I was like, oh, that's cool.

[53:26] Jim Hogan: Like this.

[53:26] Jim Hogan: And then he comes out and belts the second one, and it broke me.

[53:31] Jim Hogan: Let's your soul take you away long to it broke me as as a 12-year-old, and it still breaks me every time.

[53:48] Jim Hogan: Cause it's like that right in that note in the male voice where you can flip it and it sounds beautiful, and then you could punch it and it sounds amazing.

[53:56] Jim Hogan: Anyway, music-wise, that is one of these things that I just for me.

[54:00] Jim Hogan: That song is like, you know, once we get now we're getting into songs or whatever.

[54:04] Jim Hogan: That is just it's still iconic for me.

[54:06] Joe Carroll: Yeah, for sure.

[54:07] Jim Hogan: And then how do you hit that low note afterwards?

[54:10] Joe Carroll: You just did I'm like, come on.

[54:16] Jim Hogan: Dude, it's literally two octaves in a measure.

[54:18] Jim Hogan: Right?

[54:18] Jim Hogan: You you get that one little like to like give you like what a a second to compose yourself?

[54:24] Jim Hogan: Like, what do you?

[54:25] Joe Carroll: Oh my god.

[54:26] Jim Hogan: Yeah, exactly.

[54:26] Jim Hogan: Come on.

[54:27] Jim Hogan: Low take falling.

[54:31] Jim Hogan: Sweet intoxication.

[54:35] Jim Hogan: Touch me.

[54:37] Jim Hogan: Trust me.

[54:39] Jim Hogan: Save our each and say.

[54:42] Joe Carroll: You just take take a couple swallows and try and get your larynx to settle in.

[54:46] Jim Hogan: And you need a cigarette and a shot.

[54:49] Jim Hogan: Chug of whiskey and then get going.

[54:53] Joe Carroll: Yeah, absolutely.

[54:54] Jim Hogan: I did just sort of jump jump to music stuff.

[54:56] Jim Hogan: But what are uh any more iconic songs, any more like like favorite favorite musical moments?

[55:01] Joe Carroll: I don't know.

[55:02] Joe Carroll: It's like I I think it's hard for me to answer that question any other way than Masquerade, because it's just this like amazing party, uh so well written, so well constructed.

[55:14] Joe Carroll: I just and uh and being in that moment on stage was so fun every night.

[55:19] Jim Hogan: But selfishly, I think I think I've talked to a few Christine and Phantom about this.

[55:24] Jim Hogan: There's the trio, right?

[55:25] Jim Hogan: There's the um oh gosh, what's it called?

[55:29] Jim Hogan: The trio and the lair.

[55:30] Jim Hogan: Oh, actually, so you have the final layer, right?

[55:33] Jim Hogan: That's epic.

[55:34] Jim Hogan: And it's just you get like oh these lines get to like your eyes.

[56:02] Jim Hogan: There, I because I knew it from the movie so long in my head that when I went to the road, I wanted to be like speaking things, and they were like, What are you what are you doing?

[56:11] Jim Hogan: This is sung.

[56:13] Jim Hogan: There are notes on this page for a reason.

[56:14] Jim Hogan: I was like, oh, I'm sorry.

[56:16] Jim Hogan: The final air, the trio that they have is just magical.

[56:21] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[56:21] Jim Hogan: Yeah, that's that's the Raul Art audition too.

[56:24] Jim Hogan: Part of it.

[56:25] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[56:25] Jim Hogan: Is that so freaking cool?

[56:28] Dan Tracy: You have on here too, just one more that uh about the um you will curse the day you did not do that the end of act one.

[56:35] Dan Tracy: Oh just just you know, we'll drop it in here.

[56:40] Dan Tracy: You will come to not to he it just it it gets you.

[57:12] Joe Carroll: I'm like, oh my god, I gotta go buy the t-shirt. Like, you know what I mean? It's it just like sends you to intermission, like, oh no, oh no, what's he gonna do? Well, obviously, so uh I freaking love that it's so cool.

[57:26] Jim Hogan: Most replayed song.

[57:27] Joe Carroll: Most replayed song.

[57:28] Jim Hogan: Uh for me, it's music of the night.

[57:30] Joe Carroll: James.

[57:30] Jim Hogan: That's probably all I ask of you.

[57:32] Joe Carroll: Yeah, same.

[57:33] Jim Hogan: Yep.

[57:34] Joe Carroll: However, that's all gonna change, boys, because I'm getting that fancy in.

[57:40] Jim Hogan: My shower music has changed from newsies to West Side Story to the fancy.

[57:44] Joe Carroll: Perfect. I I I do not want to be, and also really want to be your neighbor at the same time.

[57:51] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[57:52] Joe Carroll: Uh that's that's poor Julie.

[57:53] Jim Hogan: Poor Julie.

[57:54] Joe Carroll: Um, so you got this, you got this this this thing here, Dan. Um, to play this is like games. You want to play, you want to do this?

[58:00] Dan Tracy: Yeah, yeah. Let's let's play some.

[58:02] Joe Carroll: No, we got some time.

[58:04] Dan Tracy: Sweet. Listen. We're gonna close up with some games and then we'll talk about uh what age the best and what age the worst, and we'll we'll get the hell out of here.

[58:11] Jim Hogan: I love it.

[58:12] Dan Tracy: Yes.

[58:14] Joe Carroll: Gerard Butler or Michael Crawford?

[58:18] Jim Hogan: Michael Crawford.

[58:19] Joe Carroll: Michael Crawford.

[58:20] Jim Hogan: Yeah, no doubt.

[58:22] Joe Carroll: He's Cornelius. You gotta go with the OG.

[58:23] Jim Hogan: Well, we know you're a we know you're big hello dolly guys.

[58:27] Joe Carroll: I mean, who isn't?

[58:27] Jim Hogan: We should tell you.

[58:29] Joe Carroll: What do we do?

[58:29] Jim Hogan: Yeah, we gotta do that.

[58:30] Joe Carroll: We gotta complete that.

[58:31] Jim Hogan: We'll do Hello Dolly at some point.

[58:33] Joe Carroll: Great.

[58:33] Jim Hogan: Um this next one's tricky.

[58:36] Joe Carroll: This one's trickier.

[58:37] Jim Hogan: Norm Lewis or Ramin.

[58:39] Joe Carroll: I I'm not qualified to answer.

[58:41] Jim Hogan: I literally have heard and seen nothing from Norms, but I will say that I am blown away by Rami.

[58:48] Joe Carroll: I'll send you some YouTube links because it's sweet.

[58:51] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[58:52] Joe Carroll: I'm obsessed with Norm Lewis, but I do think that Ramin is just it's kind of perfect.

[58:57] Jim Hogan: I mean, I'm sorry.

[58:59] Joe Carroll: Yeah, it's just he's amazing.

[59:01] Jim Hogan: So yeah.

[59:02] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[59:03] Jim Hogan: Sweet.

[59:03] Joe Carroll: He's he's another guy who I'm basically like if I can find his version of any single song I have to do, yeah.

[59:10] Jim Hogan: I try and find it.

[59:11] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[59:12] Jim Hogan: Because he's got totally the tone and the quality.

[59:17] Joe Carroll: I remember seeing him as Angros in the 25th anniversary of Le Mez concert and being like, who is this guy?

[59:22] Jim Hogan: Freaking guy played Marius and Ange Ross and Valjean.

[59:27] Joe Carroll: Ben Jean Valjean.

[59:29] Jim Hogan: And Raul and Phantom.

[59:31] Joe Carroll: Like he's just working his way through.

[59:34] Jim Hogan: He he's gonna be, he's gonna be Furman, or he's gonna be the old guys in like in like 25 years, he's gonna be the old guy.

[59:40] Joe Carroll: Exactly.

[59:41] Jim Hogan: Uh he played, he was apparently used as the portrait for Emmy Rossom's father in the movie, too.

[59:48] Joe Carroll: Which I didn't catch when I was watching it this morning, but Sierra Boggas or Brightman?

[59:52] Jim Hogan: For me, Boggus.

[59:54] Joe Carroll: No doubt Sierra, for sure.

[59:55] Jim Hogan: No doubt.

[59:56] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[59:56] Jim Hogan: Such a good actress.

[59:58] Joe Carroll: Like acting down in that film.

[1:00:01] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[1:00:02] Joe Carroll: Oh, yeah.

[1:00:03] Jim Hogan: Um, I love the film version of this because like all that stuff at the end.

[1:00:06] Joe Carroll: I mean, the lair is just epic in general, but like having a camera on Ramin's face in the lair to be able to see what's really going on, and like, you know, is just we're it's fantastic.

[1:00:18] Jim Hogan: It's just the fact that performances and we're seeing that in Hamilton too.

[1:00:21] Joe Carroll: The fact that performances can live on camera, yeah, that also can live in Royal Albert Hall, is goals.

[1:00:28] Jim Hogan: And if if like if I'd seen more of that when I was a kid, I'd be like, oh okay, this is what I need to be doing.

[1:00:33] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[1:00:34] Jim Hogan: Um okay, so this is our second game for today.

[1:00:37] Joe Carroll: This game is similar to a game we played in college when our professor played all of the different versions of um songs from Wicked, and we had to guess what language they were in.

[1:00:48] Jim Hogan: I'm going to play different versions of the Phantom of the Opera, and you guys are gonna guess what language it's in.

[1:00:54] Joe Carroll: Let's go.

[1:00:55] Jim Hogan: Oh, fail.

[1:00:56] Joe Carroll: I'm gonna fail so hard, but I'm excited.

[1:00:59] Jim Hogan: This is the control.

[1:01:10] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[1:01:11] Jim Hogan: I got that one.

[1:01:12] Joe Carroll: Yep.

[1:01:13] Jim Hogan: Okay, that's the control.

[1:01:26] Joe Carroll: German Germans, you's your guess, Jim?

[1:01:30] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[1:01:35] Joe Carroll: Spanish.

[1:01:38] Jim Hogan: What?

[1:01:41] Joe Carroll: See, there's just no way.

[1:01:42] Jim Hogan: There was no way.

[1:01:45] Joe Carroll: Here's the next one.

[1:01:47] Jim Hogan: Oh.

[1:02:00] Joe Carroll: That's German.

[1:02:02] Jim Hogan: Close.

[1:02:03] Joe Carroll: Close.

[1:02:04] Jim Hogan: It's it's Dutch.

[1:02:06] Joe Carroll: Oh.

[1:02:07] Jim Hogan: Wow.

[1:02:08] Joe Carroll: Come on.

[1:02:08] Jim Hogan: This is a brutal game.

[1:02:10] Joe Carroll: This is such a brutal game.

[1:02:25] Jim Hogan: Anybody?

[1:02:26] Joe Carroll: Korean?

[1:02:27] Jim Hogan: Japanese?

[1:02:28] Joe Carroll: Hungarian.

[1:02:29] Jim Hogan: I can't even say I have ever heard that language.

[1:02:32] Joe Carroll: Dude.

[1:02:33] Jim Hogan: Hungarian?

[1:02:34] Joe Carroll: Hungarian.

[1:02:35] Jim Hogan: Wow.

[1:02:36] Joe Carroll: Wow.

[1:02:36] Jim Hogan: Yeah, so there's a YouTube video here that's 11 languages.

[1:02:40] Joe Carroll: Um that's what we were working off of.

[1:02:42] Jim Hogan: That's unbelievable.

[1:02:43] Joe Carroll: That's unbelievable.

[1:02:44] Jim Hogan: Okay.

[1:02:45] Joe Carroll: All right, let's get let's get to let's let's skip that game and never play that game again.

[1:02:50] Jim Hogan: Great.

[1:02:50] Joe Carroll: Joe hated that game.

[1:02:51] Jim Hogan: So thankfully, not many shows have been translated into 15 languages, so we won't play that again.

[1:02:56] Joe Carroll: Um this is fun.

[1:02:57] Jim Hogan: You guys get to do this every week.

[1:02:59] Joe Carroll: This is awesome.

[1:03:00] Jim Hogan: I know.

[1:03:01] Joe Carroll: I wanted to say one thing.

[1:03:01] Jim Hogan: Uh if we get into just a the quick like favorite phantom, favorite Christine uh sort of favorite casting that Rebecca Lucer played Christine um back uh early in her career, and I think she would have been amazing.

[1:03:14] Jim Hogan: Um we were passing ships at Cinderella and she's um she's really sick right now.

[1:03:19] Joe Carroll: And I just I thought I I I saw that when I was doing research that she played that role and I was like, oh my god, that would have been illuminous um to to see her do it.

[1:03:28] Jim Hogan: Um but yeah, any any favorite favorite phantoms, favorite Christines over the course of time?

[1:03:33] Joe Carroll: Kind of already touched it.

[1:03:34] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[1:03:35] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[1:03:36] Jim Hogan: I mean Ramin is just still like rock star for me too.

[1:03:40] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[1:03:41] Jim Hogan: I mean Hugh Panero was my was my guy the guy I saw first, and so I think it's hard to for me to think of anything else.

[1:03:48] Joe Carroll: He's also a Philly guy, so there's some connection there too that I like.

[1:03:51] Jim Hogan: Gocks.

[1:03:53] Joe Carroll: Go tigers.

[1:03:55] Jim Hogan: Old Go Birds go down the Wawa, get a little glace.

[1:03:58] Joe Carroll: I thought this was funny.

[1:03:59] Jim Hogan: This is one thing we do.

[1:04:00] Joe Carroll: What's aged the best, what's aged the worst.

[1:04:02] Jim Hogan: Um I think that what's aged the worst is love never dies.

[1:04:06] Joe Carroll: Um just like they're trying to make the sequel, they're trying to bring the sequel, and it just it's not working.

[1:04:14] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[1:04:15] Joe Carroll: I don't know.

[1:04:16] Jim Hogan: Uh I haven't even seen it.

[1:04:18] Joe Carroll: I know you can watch it.

[1:04:20] Jim Hogan: Um I've heard me and sing um till I hear you sing, but that's kind of all I got.

[1:04:25] Joe Carroll: Right.

[1:04:25] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[1:04:26] Joe Carroll: They've been trying to bring that, they've been trying to make that happen for like geez.

[1:04:30] Jim Hogan: I mean, I saw it in London in 2011.

[1:04:33] Joe Carroll: Oh wow.

[1:04:34] Jim Hogan: Um, and that was and they had been working on it for like a decade before that even.

[1:04:37] Joe Carroll: And now there were there there is a US tour or there was a US tour, and it's just it's not it's not happening.

[1:04:42] Jim Hogan: But Till I Hear You Sing is an unbelievable song.

[1:04:46] Joe Carroll: But it's like the second song in the show.

[1:04:48] Jim Hogan: So you sit there, and then you know, out he comes and sings that glorious tune, and then it's it.

[1:04:54] Joe Carroll: So anyway.

[1:04:55] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[1:04:56] Joe Carroll: I think what aged the best for me is that the show John Riddle talked about this in our interview.

[1:05:03] Jim Hogan: There's something to be said for the idea that the theater can employ a lot of people, and that we don't have to make everything for super cheap.

[1:05:10] Joe Carroll: And I know it doesn't necessarily make sense to do a show that's really expensive because then it doesn't run as long, but there is some magic to that, and there is a lot of mystery and thrill to what this show does that you cannot do with an LED screen.

[1:05:27] Jim Hogan: Because once you start doing that, there's a lot of magic you can add with an LED screen, but it's like it's not as difficult.

[1:05:34] Joe Carroll: So there's something that's missing from like an Anastasia for me because doesn't have the elaborate set pieces that it would have had if it were trying to compete with a Phantom of the Opera style.

[1:05:46] Jim Hogan: Certainly.

[1:05:47] Joe Carroll: What about you, Jim?

[1:05:48] Jim Hogan: What age the best for you?

[1:05:50] Joe Carroll: Oh man, I mean, uh I don't mean to like go back to what we were already talking about, but the tunes, the melodies, yeah, they're literally gets stuck in your head for days, right?

[1:05:59] Jim Hogan: Um that can be said for pretty much all Andrew Lloyd Weber shows, but still, like those ones in particular.

[1:06:06] Joe Carroll: You you're leaving the theater and and that exit music plays, and and then you're just gonna have that with you for days, maybe even weeks, depending on how obsessed you are.

[1:06:14] Jim Hogan: Totally.

[1:06:15] Joe Carroll: Totally.

[1:06:16] Jim Hogan: And I'm not gonna, I was gonna get into this, but we're since we're running out of time.

[1:06:19] Joe Carroll: I I I everybody go check out there's a couple of these these songs.

[1:06:23] Jim Hogan: This thing that I I I was researching of uh Andrew Lloyd Weber has gotten accused of of like kind of stealing memo melodies and stealing melodies from himself.

[1:06:31] Joe Carroll: And so go on a deep dive on Google about this because it's pretty amazing.

[1:06:35] Jim Hogan: Like memory from cats is uh Raval's Bolero.

[1:06:39] Joe Carroll: All I ask of you, he literally wrote rewrote the words of that.

[1:06:42] Jim Hogan: Uh it reworth rewrote the words to a song called I don't Talk to Strangers, the Plaza do Domingo recorded.

[1:06:48] Joe Carroll: The mirror sequence is from uh Prokyev's Alexander Nevsky the opera.

[1:06:53] Jim Hogan: Uh the opening uh of Phantom of the Opera is technically was stolen from Pink Floyd, and Roger Waters or one of the guys from Pink Floyd was like, actually, I don't really care.

[1:07:02] Joe Carroll: That's cool.

[1:07:03] Jim Hogan: Like just take it.

[1:07:04] Joe Carroll: And then Pucci, the Puccini estate actually sued Andrew Lade Weber over the lyrics to Music of the Night.

[1:07:10] Jim Hogan: Whoa.

[1:07:10] Joe Carroll: Because the the uh the um No More Talk of Darkness, uh Forget These Wild Eyed Fears was in uh Puccuni Pachini opera.

[1:07:18] Jim Hogan: So I thought, and then they like settled out of court and stuff.

[1:07:21] Joe Carroll: So I don't know.

[1:07:21] Jim Hogan: That stuff kind of is like, you know, that stuff is kind of kind of cool and kind of like that.

[1:07:26] Joe Carroll: Definitely didn't age well.

[1:07:27] Jim Hogan: No, that didn't I would say the other thing that didn't age well for me is the fact that there were 250 white people on the stage in that 25th anniversary concert.

[1:07:38] Joe Carroll: I think you know, we just have to do a better job of changing the way that we all know this, but it's worth saying again because it's you know, we have to change what the stage looks like in order to represent the world as it is and the future that we want it to be.

[1:07:51] Jim Hogan: So that's definitely something that always plays in my head when I see something like this.

[1:07:56] Joe Carroll: Totally.

[1:07:57] Jim Hogan: Yeah, totally.

[1:07:59] Joe Carroll: Um, well, Phantom of the Opera.

[1:08:01] Jim Hogan: Do you guys want me to sing?

[1:08:02] Joe Carroll: Do you guys want me to sing for you?

[1:08:04] Jim Hogan: Or should we?

[1:08:04] Joe Carroll: Should we actually let Jim sing, perhaps?

[1:08:07] Jim Hogan: Yeah, that's what I want.

[1:08:10] Joe Carroll: Um also, Jim.

[1:08:12] Joe Carroll: I really wanted to talk about your TED talk and your voice of Quasimodo.

[1:08:18] Jim Hogan: But oh, okay, we can talk about that.

[1:08:21] Joe Carroll: I wanted, I I was gonna introduce you with all of that, but we uh had our technical difficulty difficulties, so we kept pushing through.

[1:08:28] Jim Hogan: But you guys should all go check out Jim Hogan, do a deep dive and look for his TED talk.

[1:08:32] Jim Hogan: It's genius.

[1:08:33] Joe Carroll: That's how I was introduced to Jim Hogan because Liam showed me your TED talk when we were on the bus and American Idiot.

[1:08:40] Jim Hogan: Of course he did.

[1:08:41] Joe Carroll: Yep.

[1:08:41] Jim Hogan: And I was like, that guy's a star.

[1:08:44] Joe Carroll: Oh my god.

[1:08:45] Jim Hogan: Well, guess what? We're putting it on the guys for like musicals Instagram this week.

[1:08:50] Jim Hogan: The TED Talk was a wild experience.

[1:08:53] Joe Carroll: Um that I don't know.

[1:08:55] Jim Hogan: I would do exactly the same had I repeated it, but at least I, you know, it is something I didn't back on and be like that.

[1:09:00] Joe Carroll: I w I like wrote that, you know?

[1:09:02] Jim Hogan: Yeah.

[1:09:02] Joe Carroll: So like I was like sort of um I have a complicated relationship with the TED Talk, but uh the voice of Quasi thing is like definitely my favorite experience ever.

[1:09:02] Jim Hogan: Ever, ever, ever.

[1:09:12] Joe Carroll: So you're unreal.

[1:09:14] Jim Hogan: That video is so good.

[1:09:15] Joe Carroll: Jim, thank you for being here.

[1:09:16] Jim Hogan: Thank you for joining us.

[1:09:18] Joe Carroll: Uh thanks everyone for sticking around to listen to us blabber about Phantom of the Opera.

[1:09:24] Jim Hogan: Please go do uh double feature and watch alert Royal Albert followed quickly by the movie because you can see how many things were changed, and you can also um revel at some of the voices in that Royal Albert.

[1:09:40] Joe Carroll: It's insane.

[1:09:42] Jim Hogan: Um yeah, truly, truly, thank you, Phantom J Oper Jim Hogan.

[1:09:49] Jim Hogan: Guys, thanks for having me.

[1:09:50] Joe Carroll: This was a blast.

[1:09:51] Jim Hogan: Thank you, Jim Hogan.

[1:09:52] Joe Carroll: This is another episode of Guys Like Musicals.

[1:09:54] Jim Hogan: Woo!

[1:10:01] Joe Carroll: I won't care.

[1:10:03] Jim Hogan: I'll have spent one day.

[1:10:31] Joe Carroll: Thank you for listening to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[1:10:33] Jim Hogan: We are produced by Dan Tracy and Joe Carroll, your hosts.

[1:10:37] Joe Carroll: You can find us on Instagram at Guy SoLeg Musicals or on Twitter at MusicalGys.

[1:10:42] Jim Hogan: For more information about us or our show, please visit our new website at Guys who like musicals.com.

[1:10:47] Joe Carroll: You can find our merch store, our Patreon page, and more.

[1:10:50] Jim Hogan: Thanks for listening.