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[0:00] Jeff Malone: Welcome to Half Hour with Jeff & Richie, the podcast where we explore the latest shows we see, sharing our insights and opinions on the performances, storylines, and everything in between. In today's episode, we're discussing the highly anticipated Broadway revival of "Gypsy," starring the incomparable Audra McDonald. Whether you're planning to catch the show in person or just want to learn more about this legendary musical, this episode is for you. And as always, we want to inform you that this episode will contain spoilers, so if you're ready to dive into this production, stick around with us. I'm Jeff.

[0:31] Richie Grasso: And I'm Richie. We're thrilled to be your hosts for today's episode. But before we start the conversation about "Gypsy," here's a few words from our advertisers. Half Hour! Welcome, everyone, to a new episode of Half Hour with Jeff & Richie. Today, we're discussing the Broadway revival of "Gypsy." "Gypsy" is more than just a Broadway show. It's a theatrical phenomenon that comes around once in a generation. Well, I feel like it comes around a little bit more than that for some, but this crown jewel of American musicals, created by the legendary team of Arthur Lawrence, Julie Stein, and Stephen Sondheim, is making a triumphant return to Broadway. At its helm is the most celebrated stage performer of our time, six-time Tony Award winner Audra McDonald, taking on the mother of all roles.

Joining McDonald is Tony Award winner Danny Burstein, along with rising Broadway stars Joy Woods and Jordan Tyson. This production is brought to life by the visionary six-time Tony Award winning director George C. Wolfe and four-time Tony Award nominated choreographer Camille A. Brown. This new interpretation of "Gypsy" promises to be unlike any seen before, delving deep into Broadway's ultimate tale of mothers and daughters, ambition, fame, and the lengths it will go to pursue the American dream. With show-stopping numbers like "Everything's Coming Up Roses," "Let Me Entertain You," and "You Gotta Get a Gimmick," "Gypsy" continues to shine as what the New York Times calls an immortal work of musical theatre. Alrighty, so in today's episode, we're discussing the exciting new production of "Gypsy," and as always, we're going to hit you with our hot take, so...

[2:04] Jeff Malone: I'll go first. "Gypsy" is a nearly perfect show that I find to be one of the greatest works of the American musical theatre canon, and while I do think some elements of this revival are working really well, others are not, which is making it very inconsistent for me. I'm still getting my brain wrapped around it, but it's hard when I hold the Patti LuPone 2008 revival to the highest standard possible, and we'll dive into some of these specifics now momentarily.

[2:37] Richie Grasso: Alright, my hot take is that Audra McDonald's portrayal of Mama Rose in this new production of "Gypsy" will be the most divisive performance of the season, and I can't be more excited to talk about this. Let's dive in. Okay. So we don't really need to talk too much about the plot here. Most people know what's going on with the plot. This has been revived many times, although, before you get too into that, I am going to disclaim on here, or disclose, that I never saw a production of "Gypsy," so there are probably many people out there that have not seen "Gypsy" before, and like me, this is their first production, so not that we need to get too much into the plot part, like you're saying, but there are probably many people that this is their first production that they're seeing this, and the first time they're seeing this story. And I saw the Patti revival, I've seen the Bette Midler movie, so I'm very comfortable with this piece. I understand the piece pretty well, so different perspectives here, which will be really cool.

[3:45] Jeff Malone: We know Gypsy Rose Lee was a very famous performer. This is really about her mother. A lot of this is based on the true story of the upbringing of Gypsy Rose Lee and how she became Gypsy Rose Lee. The show is crafted nearly perfectly, and I do not say that about many shows. It is a long show, but the plot develops at a great pace. Every musical number lands when it needs to. There's show-within-a-show moments, there's drama, there's comedy. It is one of the greatest overtures, one of the greatest scores. I really put "Gypsy" up there as one of the top Golden Age musicals ever. It's definitely top five greatest Golden Age musicals. Regardless of the production you're seeing, the actual show itself is nearly flawless.

I'm sorry, I will say that boldly. Do you agree, Jeff, just from talking about the book, the score, the plot development, without specifically this production yet, now that you are introduced for the first time, do you see how nearly perfect, or do you agree that it's nearly perfect?

[4:53] Jeff Malone: I do think so. I will bring up why I do think that. The only thing I would say is the flaw in the show is the "Little Lamb" song that she sings. It's cute, but why? She only has lambs as friends in that moment. She likes the animals. She doesn't know one really. I don't think we care enough about that in this show.

[5:14] Richie Grasso: It was another moment for her to sing an act one, I guess. Sure. This is about ambition, about family, about drive, the relevance of this story in the changing landscape of entertainment. There's so much reference to vaudeville's ending, burlesque is starting. There's a lot going on here with the styles of entertainment in American entertainment. Then we go into the dark side of show business and what people were doing at the time. All these themes are really, really important. I think what's important, though, to talk about here in terms of this overall concept is we're talking about a real person here, Gypsy Rose Lee, and her memoir, I believe, where she wrote this story about her mom. The vision taking this to the stage was not done in this style that you and I keep talking about that's happening on Broadway right now, when it's real biopic type stories.

This didn't feel like that. This didn't feel like we had to have a narrator come out on the stage and tell us that we're going to tell Gypsy Rose Lee's story or mama or this or that. It's more creative in a way because you actually have to use your brain. You actually have to put yourself into the story, and that's why I will praise this in a way that everyone talks about. This is one of the greatest musicals.

[6:42] Jeff Malone: And Joel Stein wrote "Funny Girl," too. I don't think that one is as successful as "Gypsy" in terms of… "Funny Girl" has moments, but I don't think as an overall show, it's nearly as perfect as "Gypsy." But still, it's the same thing. Even with "Funny Girl," and it's Fanny Brice, and you're going in there and you're watching that story. It's like the same thing that we talk about with "Hamilton" all the time. It was never that Alexander Hamilton had to walk out on that stage and start narrating to us. No. They looked, and Lin-Manuel developed a story for us to watch. The same thing going back to "Gypsy." You're watching a full story.

[7:16] Richie Grasso: And there's a reason why the show is revived as much as it is. It's a leading star vehicle for a middle-aged woman. There's multiple supporting roles that support that. It's a time period piece that's costumed very well, and timeless music. Everything that's coming up, "Rose's," I think, is one of the greatest Act One finales. "Rose's Turn" is one of the greatest musical theatre moments. It is insane how perfect that song is written. It's insane how… So before we dive into this specific production, we're looking and we're saying, okay, you're handed on a silver platter an amazing show. And most times it works. And do I think in this production some things are working? Yes. I'm not going to sit here and say I hated this. I did not hate this revival. There are much more things on the Broadway stage lately that I despise and I can't stand. I'm looking at this and I didn't hate this, Jeff.

[8:15] Jeff Malone: But I don't feel like anyone is really saying they hate this production. And when we get into the production, we'll talk about it. I think what people are getting let down in probably is around what their expectations were for this production. And that's what we'll dive into when we get there.

[8:34] Richie Grasso: Well, and those expectations for this are wild, because it's one of those shows where you expect so much. There's also something to be said about, and we'll talk about this a little later too, going to the Majestic Theatre for the first time with a new show after the renovation. The experience is just being there. All of that was great. So I didn't hate this. I liked it and I liked moments of it, but there were a few jarring moments that didn't work for me. And I think conceptually, as a concept, I'm not sure all of George's direction worked here. And I think we need to dive into a little bit. We're going to spend most of our time there. Let's go there. So let's dive into that first. Before we do, here's a few quick words from our advertisers.

[9:12] Jeff Malone: Okay, and we're back. So we're talking about George and Camille A. Brown's staging and choreography. What I thought Camille did well with the choreo, I will say, is there was a slightly modernized flair to period piece dancing, which I actually kind of liked mostly. I liked the street sign dancing, showing travel of time, loved. I thought the burlesque dancer moments, the strip, all of that, keep the big strip of the character at the end, of Gypsy Rose Lee at the end. I thought it was staged nice with the kids. I thought those moments were nice. When I look at George's direction as a whole, and I'm curious to know what you think of this, it seemed a bit clunky at times. It seemed a bit all over the place at times.

It seemed like we had to fill the whole stage, every single scene. We couldn't pull scenes down left or down right. It was always big. The set was highlighting pieces. I didn't mind the set too much, but it just didn't seem like it had—was this supposed to be a darker production of this in terms of the emotions and the grit? Was this supposed to be lighter comedy? Was this supposed to follow the same footsteps that Arthur did all those years directing it, who wrote the book? It just seemed like I didn't quite know where the direction was in general.

[10:33] Richie Grasso: Well, I would say this, that it's George C. Wolfe, so I don't think he's ever going to try to imitate another director. From the stories that I've heard about past productions,

[10:47] Richie Grasso: It's like the Bernadette Peters production, which was directed by Sam Mendes, which did not get rave reviews, but all of the other productions, if I'm correct, did get rave reviews. And I'm almost positive all the other productions were directed by Arthur. Almost all. I think almost all of them. And now we're moving into new director George C. Wolfe taking on this epic, because it is. And I feel like he was trying to put his own stamp on this, but couldn't figure out directly how he wanted to do it. And I think that's the disconnect that we're having. It's almost feel like it's trying too hard. And then I'm sitting there watching it. And then I don't feel like it's trying at all. Which you don't want to feel that from a production like this.

And again, I'm really going from no other production and seeing it. Other than clips. I mean, I've seen the Patty clips. I get the Patty clips. And when we move into the comparison of what Audra's doing and what Patty's doing and what everyone else has done with this role, it's going to be interesting to see where people are feeling the most connection that she had with this character. Let's save Audra for the end, because that's a whole conversation I know we went over. I want to go through some of these other moments here.

[12:07] Jeff Malone: If we start on another high here, Danny Burstein may be the best part of what, or if not one of the best part of this. That man is truly capturing Herbie like I've never seen. I mean, Boyd Gaines was really great in the 2008 revival. But this is a Herbie that is comedic, that is tragic, that is hurt, but that is strong. It is a little bit of everything. And Danny can do no wrong. He's so good at what he does. His performance is amazing. I think that's because he gets it. He gets what that role is. He understands it and he puts that out there.

[12:45] Richie Grasso: I think if you go on to some of the other characters, Jordan Tyson is June. We only get June in Act One. There's the baby June. Let's start there. Oh, these kids are killing it. They're so good in this. And then when Jordan comes in, she's amazing as June. I think if Mama was married with Jordan and Joy, it was a highlight for me. That duet is a vocal, that's tough. And I think Jordan's really great in the June role. And when June just disappears like that, it's insane how June just kind of leaves. And it's really not in Act Two, it's in most of Act One, but you don't get much more of June. But June's got a lot to do in Act One. So that was a strong point. Yeah, I enjoyed her performance. I probably, I don't have too many notes for her. I think she really captured that transitioning from child actor to her.

[13:36] Jeff Malone: I thought also the way that they did the transition was super cool.

[13:46] Richie Grasso: Yes. From young to old. From young to old. Yes. And bringing in Joy Woods now to this conversation here. Listen, I think that Joy Woods did a great job. I do think that there were moments that she needed to push harder. Because I didn't feel like it was really matching what it should have been in terms of maybe anger towards Audra. You know, I just, it didn't feel like it almost went there enough. And it's hard because you spend so much of Act, all of Act One, just this shy, meek thing and you have to become like a stripper by the end. Like, it's a wild transformation of a role. She's fine in this role. She's great. I don't want to say she's fine. She's great. She's working really hard. Her striptease, that seven minute number of her doing the strip into the transition, into the dressing room scene, is hard. And she's really doing a great job. For someone who's kind of sort of somewhat new to the Broadway landscape of sorts, good for her.

[14:46] Jeff Malone: Yeah, this is a major launching period for her. You know, look what happened when Laura Benanti did it. It's like, you have Joy here. She does transform into this striptease stripper moment. I do think that there was a lack in probably the dialogue that she has to talk about here. Because when I look at the gimmick portion of this, I would say that's her gimmick where she talks about her mom in her striptease. It's the whole point of it, right? And it just felt like that was the afterthought here. This became more about how beautiful she looked and the dancing that she was doing, which I thought was great. If it was in another show. And I don't want to sit and compare to Laura, because it's not fair to compare two people from two completely different productions.

I do remember Laura being insanely good in this role in 2008, winning a Tony Award, as well as Patti LuPone in that revival. But I think Joy's going to keep growing into this role and keep getting more comfortable. She's not a problem in this show, and I think she's doing some nice things. Not at all. And it's a really hard role. So I give her that.

[15:50] Richie Grasso: The Tessitura Mazepa Electra. We have, oh my gosh, we have Leslie Margareta, we have Lily Thomas, and we have Melinda Hull. Oh my gosh, those women steal that scene. Leslie Margareta, I don't know, that woman, oh my God. So funny. So funny. It is a great moment in the show, and they did a really great job at it. What's my favorite lyric in the whole song? Bump it with a trumpet. Don't know why, but I think that's sound time lyric.

[16:19] Jeff Malone: You call the song Bump it with a Trumpet.

[16:21] Richie Grasso: I call it that. You know that Bump it with a Trumpet song. You know that Bump it with a Trumpet. I don't know why. I should say you gotta get a gimmick. Things that I think needed some work, I wasn't a really big fan of Tulsa or his number. I think that he's dancing so well, but he's almost dancing borderline out of control by the end of All I Need is the Girl. I understand in the song, he's like, and then I do this, and then I do that, I'm so excited. I get it. When Tony Yazbek did it, there was such control to what he was doing. This seemed to spin a little out of control. I'll partially put some of that blame on Camille A. Brown. I think the choreo was just all over the place. I didn't feel much for Tulsa here in this production, and it didn't really work for me, unfortunately. He's trying really hard, the actor playing him, and I give him credit, but I wasn't really feeling that role.

[17:11] Jeff Malone: With Tish, that's one of my most forgettable characters in the show overall. I would look at that and I would say, I don't remember that character. Also, if we talk about scenery, lighting, costumes, costumes are great, gorgeous, it's working. Scenery is working-ish. It's very pieces coming on and off. Cool moments with the car, cool moments with things flying on our shore. I don't know if every single-

[17:43] Richie Grasso: It felt a little small in that thing.

[17:46] Jeff Malone: Yeah. Yeah. We could have used a little bit more in each scene, maybe. But I will say, and I don't know if this was just me, the lighting seemed very messy.

[17:57] Richie Grasso: Off.

[17:58] Jeff Malone: Completely off. You were spotlighting everyone on that stage, and listen, we were up in the mezz, so we're looking down, we're seeing every little detail, so I'm sure people that are in the orchestra are not seeing what we're seeing, but the lights were all over the place. And I don't know if that was actors not hitting their marks or spotlights not finding the actors. It just looked all over the place. There should be no reason why Audra's standing in one part and it felt like a crescent moon on her, like when it should be center. And there was all these gobo effects of window grates, and it almost seemed like, oh, we don't have enough scenery to fill this space, so throw some lighting on the floor in different places to fill the space. That's kind of what it felt like. I thought it was not great lighting for something as a caliber like this.

[18:47] Richie Grasso: Didn't I lean to you at one point? I never talk during a show, but I wanted you to notice something, and I leaned over and said, what's going on with this lighting in this scene?

[18:56] Jeff Malone: I noticed it on my own.

[18:58] Richie Grasso: Yeah. Oh, I know. But I'm just saying, I wanted, when we talked about it, for you to see what I was doing. So let's go on to Audra and some Tony talk in a second. I want to go on to Audra and talk about her performance, of course, but before we do that, here's a few words from our advertisers.

[19:16] Jeff Malone: And we're back. So Audra McDonald.

[19:20] Richie Grasso: Audra McDonald.

[19:21] Jeff Malone: The legend.

[19:23] Richie Grasso: Here she is, boys.

[19:24] Jeff Malone: Here she is, boys. Is Audra McDonald acting the heck out of this?

[19:28] Richie Grasso: Of course.

[19:29] Jeff Malone: Of course. We weren't going to expect anything less. She has a few lines, especially that first office scene, she's like, I am her mother. I was like, oh, there's Audra. Like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And in the scenes leading up to songs, and then her tender side with her ballads with Danny. I mean, incredible. She looks great. She's up there the whole show, her acting, her vocal of speaking.

[19:54] Richie Grasso: Yes.

[19:55] Jeff Malone: I don't think we disagree on that. I think there's just high caliber.

[19:56] Richie Grasso: No, I agree completely. I think that she really is acting it well. And you know, maybe towards the end, I would have probably pushed her a little bit more, but I'm going to make a point on that. Okay, so we'll go to the vocal.

[20:12] Jeff Malone: Yes. And this is where I think this is the most thing I'm most confused about. And this is where I think a lot of people are going to have very different opinions. Well, when we when we start with Ethel Merman, and we work our way through history, it's always played by and just has been through history, a brassy, beltered, borderline nasal, edgy, brassy tone, where it's borderline screaming at times and some of the breakdown moments and it's pushed and it's hard edged. And that gives you that goosebumps. Oh my gosh, I heard Patty do this. And it's what I would probably call the unique voice of Broadway. Let's call it unique because like in the pop world, a unique voice is usually breathy and different.

So when you have your traditional pop voices that are belting and, you know, hitting different notes, this I would say is unique for Broadway, because I think on Broadway, it's traditional for people to have a belt and sing really well. And when you have some people that don't sing really well, that's where they fall into this category. And I think that's what many of the people who have played Mama Rose have been. So now we have something very different, which is a classically trained operatic soprano who we've seen sing before, who has a gorgeous voice.

[21:34] Jeff Malone: GYPSY, was she always doing soprano this whole role? Was she forcing a belt? Was she doing both? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you?

[22:04] Richie Grasso: GYPSY, was she always doing soprano this whole role? Was she doing both? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you?

[23:04] Jeff Malone: GYPSY, was she always doing soprano this whole role? Was she doing both? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you?

[23:23] Richie Grasso: GYPSY, was she always doing soprano this role? Was she doing both? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you?

[23:53] Jeff Malone: GYPSY, was she always doing soprano this role? Was she doing both? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you?

[24:23] Richie Grasso: GYPSY, was she always doing soprano this role? Was she doing both? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you?

[24:38] Jeff Malone: GYPSY, was she always doing soprano this role? Was she doing both? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you?

[25:08] Richie Grasso: GYPSY, was she always doing soprano this role? Was she doing both? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you?

[25:38] Jeff Malone: GYPSY, was she always doing soprano this role? Was she doing both? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you?

[26:08] Richie Grasso: GYPSY, was she always doing soprano this role? Was she doing both? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you?

[27:03] Jeff Malone: GYPSY, was she always doing soprano this role? Was she doing both? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you?

[27:33] Richie Grasso: GYPSY, was she always doing soprano this role? Was she doing both? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you?

[27:48] Jeff Malone: GYPSY, was she always doing soprano this role? Was she doing both? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you?

[28:18] Richie Grasso: GYPSY, was she always doing soprano this role? Was she doing both? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you? Did that vocal interpretation that we saw work for you?

[28:45] Jeff Malone: Yeah, she's like, I thought you did it for me. And is that the question? She's saying she did it for herself.

[29:15] Richie Grasso: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[29:46] Jeff Malone: Yeah.

[29:59] Richie Grasso: It could be.

[30:16] Jeff Malone: I don't know. It's going to really be tight.

[30:34] Richie Grasso: Oh my gosh, we're about out of time here. Final thoughts on GYPSY REVIVAL at the Majestic Theatre, Jeff?

[30:45] Jeff Malone: I think it's going to cause a lot of conversation, which I think is great theatre at the end of the day. And I do think there are some great things happening up at the stage in certain parts, you know, and they are going to get better.

[30:59] Richie Grasso: And from what I've heard from the people that went early on in the show, I've already seen myself major changes than what people were talking about. So hopefully once the show is locked, as this episode comes out, it will be and it will be open. So can't wait to see those reviews.

[31:18] Jeff Malone: Overall, I agree. Go see it. It's a classic musical. And it's, Audra is doing some great things throughout, as are the others. There's just a few moments that are not quite landing for me as much as I wanted them because I hold this show to a high standard. But everyone is working very hard. And go support it if you love the show. And if you love Audra, why not? You know, it's such a classic.

[31:37] Richie Grasso: And in our recap episode at the end of the year, when we do this, maybe we'll discuss what the reviews.

[31:42] Jeff Malone: Oh, yeah. Because we don't know the reviews at the time of recording.

[31:46] Richie Grasso: And it will be interesting because I am very excited to see them because they weren't so nice to Sunset. Some were, some weren't. So we'll see.

[31:53] Jeff Malone: Well, that does wrap up our discussion of this episode. We hope you enjoyed our deep dive into Gypsy on Broadway. We will share the link with ticket information in our description.

[32:00] Richie Grasso: And remember, we want to hear from you. Continue the conversation with us on Instagram at Half Hour Podcast and let us know your thoughts on Gypsy.

[32:07] Jeff Malone: If you enjoyed our show, please leave us a review. Your feedback helps us bring more theater to you. And remember, you can listen to past episodes and stay tuned for our upcoming ones as well.

[32:15] Jeff Malone: Until next time, I'm Jeff.

[32:16] Richie Grasso: And I'm Richie saying ta-ta for now.

[32:18] Jeff Malone: Bye.