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[0:00] Jeff Malone: Welcome to Half Hour with Jeff and Richie, the podcast where we explore the latest shows we see, sharing our insights and opinions on the performances, storylines, and everything in between. In today's episode, we're discussing the off-Broadway production of Messy White Gays playing at the Duke on 42nd Street in New York City. Whether you cannot catch the show in person or want to expand your thoughts after seeing it, this episode is for you. And as always, we want to inform you that this episode will contain spoilers, so if you're ready to dive into this production, stick around with us. I'm Jeff.

[0:29] Richie Grasso: And I'm Richie, and we're thrilled to be your hosts for this episode. But before we start the conversation about Messy White Gays, here are a few words from our advertisers. Welcome, everyone, to a new episode of Half Hour with Jeff and Richie. Today, we're discussing Messy White Gays. It's Sunday morning in Hell's Kitchen. Brecken and Kayden have just murdered their boyfriend and stuffed his body into a Jonathan Adler credenza. Unfortunately, they've also invited friends over for brunch, and they're out of limes. Feel bad for them. They're Messy White Gays. In Messy White Gays, Drew Droege, the sharp-penned and quick-witted diarist of the contemporary homosexual, shines a harsh overhead light on the pores of white gaydom, revealing what happens when throuples crumble, neighbors bicker, and rich and pretty clash with hot and dumb. Let the gays begin. I just read that right from a write-up of it. That was very interesting.

[1:17] Jeff Malone: That is funny, right?

[1:24] Richie Grasso: Yeah. All right, let's get with our theater hot take for Messy White Gays. I think that this show might be the most brutally honest mirror that the theater has held up to some queer circles in many years. I will say about Messy White Gays that the absurdist farcical comedy line has been pushed further. If we thought it was Omeri pushing that line, we're moving it even further down the line with something like Messy White Gays. The absurdist comedy is in New York City right now, and I want to talk more about that specifically.

[1:57] Jeff Malone: All right, let's do it. So when we talk about overall, like, just idea here, I mean, this felt like one long SNL skit, like a really long, you know, most of them are what, like five minutes long? This was like one 90-minute long SNL skit, but it definitely pushed more boundaries than what, like, you know, can air on television, right? In terms of the language use and the subject matter.

[2:20] Richie Grasso: Definitely like SNL skit meets RuPaul acting challenge.

[2:27] Jeff Malone: Yeah, yeah. But this is also well crafted in an off-Broadway space, right on 42nd Street, right in Times Square. You know, a little later on, I want to talk about what absurdist comedy means in New York City and farcical comedy and what, where we're going with that as a society, because that's a whole nother conversation that we're going to have in the last second. But right now talking about Messy White Gays, I just feel like this really hits the nail on the head in terms of absurdist comedy in New York City about a specific niche, which, you know, Messy White Gays, I think they interviewed a lot of people on the red carpet and they were like, oh, I know Messy White Gays. Yeah, this is just like Messy White Gays. Oh, yeah. The Messy White Gays of New York City, right?

[3:07] Richie Grasso: And there's something to be said about the word messy. And there's something to be said about the word white. And there's something to be said about the word gays. I think those three words in the title alone all mean something really interesting. But it's murder mystery too. Someone was murdered and they have to figure out how to hide the body. And then they put all these absurdist things in like, you know, this couple is trying to host a brunch. It's what is it? Six in the morning. Now people are getting ready to come over later in the morning. They have to hide this body, but they're in this big apartment that no one can understand how they can afford it. Like it's the typical like questions that are raised. Everything that's asked all the time when you see something on social media.

[3:41] Jeff Malone: Yeah. And I think what Drew did really well here is Drew took probably the conversations he has with people and the things he sees on social media. And I think that's the smartest. How many times and I'm not going to speak for everyone, but how many times do you and I sit and see and just make commentary maybe on what's that? Who's doing that? Where is that coming from? Why? Why? You just see things and it makes you wonder like, okay, scroll past it versus Drew didn't say scroll past it. Drew said, wait a second. What if I wrote something that was commentary on this?

[4:13] Richie Grasso: Now, in terms of plot, there's not much plot here, right? I mean, it's a simple plot. They have to hide the body. The body's there the whole time. They're talking about their lifestyles and their lives. And then all the, and then the brunch gets delivered. And then all of a sudden they have to, they all realize the body's right there. And then the spoiler alert, the body explodes at the end because of all the alcohol and drugs and things. So it's just, it's this absurdism and there's not much, I don't think we need to sit here and say, oh, the plot, we need to talk about the meaning, but you know, there's a more of a social commentary meaning than the actual plot.

[4:43] Jeff Malone: Yeah. If anything, a plot point that you would kind of talk about is how, like you, how maybe you become friends in this world today and are you actually friends? Who knows? I mean, and I think that's one thing where it's like, oh, you're at a night out and you get invited out and then maybe this is very niche to New York City, but then you end up at brunch at someone's apartment the next day, even though you just saw them two hours ago when you were dancing in the club.

[5:09] Richie Grasso: Yeah. And there's definitely, you know, there's different age levels. Drew is in the show as well. Drew plays someone of an older generation of gays right there. And there's, and there's these commentaries also on what, you know, when the guy all of a sudden is like, oh, hold on one second. He goes over and makes a video on his phone. I'm like, my only thing. Hey guys. And he's like doing this. I'm like, what are you doing? Like the way people like stop their lives for social media or the way that the two of them were talking in the beginning for a long time about they were in a thruple and their boy, they didn't like him anymore. I'll just say the title again. Messy White Gays, how they interact sometimes with people.

I don't like that person anymore. Remove them. Yeah. Like, oh, I like this person now. Now I don't want them. And there's this pick and choose. And that, that feels like that was commentary on what like a messy white gay in Hell's Kitchen might be acting like. I mean, listen, of course this is not everyone, but this is a commentary on a lot of young people and maybe how the gays are living today in New York.

[6:11] Jeff Malone: And I think that that is what this did so well is of course, so much of it is absurdism, but there's also like an underlying meaning there is why does the older gay not understand half of what the younger gays are doing? Why do the younger gays have to go? Why do they have to go to brunch the next day? Why do they have to go out so late at night? Why do they have to feel like they're so present on OnlyFans or whatever? You know, like there's all these comments, comments about that, I think in between the lines.

[6:40] Richie Grasso: What I think Drew did really well with like writing this piece in general, though, is really creating that commentary around satire in this whole world of the messy white gays. I think like that's one thing there. I mean, let's really say it there. This is a very niche New York City piece, especially Hell's Kitchen, Chelsea Boys in that sense that there's so many jokes and references that are made. Like maybe if you were coming to see this piece, you would have a hard time getting some of the references, but there's so much pop culture in there as well that it's very easy to kind of follow along.

[7:14] Jeff Malone: I would say, though, what I kind of praise him for, though, is bringing more of the farce element into this piece as well and writing it in that way. Like, it's so over dramatized and over dramatic and like funny that like, you can look at this and like laugh at it at the same time. You can laugh at these jokes because you're saying to yourself, Oh my God, that is so funny, because that is actually so true. But it's like so heightened in a piece like this. Right. I mean.

[7:46] Richie Grasso: Yeah. And it makes you realize like, you know, I'll ask you this question. If you're not a messy white gay, are you getting every joke? Are you enjoying this to the fullest extent? There was quite a mix of people in the audience. So I wonder how others take this.

[8:02] Jeff Malone: Yeah. Well, I mean, there was a lot of laughter.

[8:06] Richie Grasso: Yeah. So when you look at it like that, there was definitely I do also think like I saw some people in the audience and I said, Oh, they probably have no idea what we're talking about. But even down to like taking the body and putting it in the Jonathan Adler credenza, I think that is like that is so gay culture funny that you're like, OK. And there's specific things that are mentioned, like there's RuPaul's Drag Race references. There's references to certain TV shows, certain culture. There was even one or two things that were said that I was like, oh, I don't even know what they're talking about right now. Like there was so many niche jokes, really, really specifically niche. And that's why I think Drew was unapologetic about this and said, you know what, I'm going to write this the way I think this is funny.

[8:45] Jeff Malone: Well, I also think it's like write what you know. Right. Exactly. Which is I think this is a very big piece of like write what you know. And like you hear conversations like this, you know, there's social media accounts that are it's like overheard at a gay bar. And it's like some of these same things that you're saying, like this sounds like it was he overheard someone talk about this and he said, oh, I'm going to write a play about that.

[9:08] Richie Grasso: Well, it's interesting because I think you had told me recently you were out with a friend at a gay bar and you were there from like the dinner crowd to the post dinner crowd to the early going out. You were like just there for a few hours with a friend. Right. And the different types of people that came in every hour, the where we just finished dinner. We're going to have a drink before I go to bed or the I'm going to have a drink with my co-worker before I go home. And then there was the pre going out groups of people coming and then there was the going. And then that's I think when you're like, I'm going home now. Right. Something like that. So it was interesting how like you can see so many in just one place in one area of the city, so many different types of gays, I guess, or, you know, messy white gays or whatever. You know, I think it's a commentary on that.

[9:45] Jeff Malone: And what do you think Drew is like really trying to achieve by having something like this on the stage?

[9:51] Richie Grasso: I think from a plot perspective, I think he's just trying to tell the story of maybe what he's seen and heard and comment on maybe how absurd some people act.

[10:04] Jeff Malone: Yeah. Because as a society, have we accepted messy white gay? Is this something that's like laughed at? Is this something that's like, oh, if you're in Hell's Kitchen, you get away with this. But if you lived in Kansas, you wouldn't. So like, OK, this is funny because of where you live and you're accepted in this in this area of the city and the world. So you can just totally do whatever you want. I almost feel like that's kind of the point here, too, with the plot was that it was like, obviously not the absurdity of the murder, but like this idea of, yeah, just that's yeah, that's funny. Yeah, you could do it. Yeah. Lose friends, make friends, go to brunch, go out, don't go out, do this. You know, there's this feeling of, yeah, I go audition for the show. Like the character's like, I want to audition for Wicked. You know, just like there's that fly by night, like kind of seat of their pants feel.

[10:46] Richie Grasso: Yeah. I think that was what he was trying to achieve.

[10:52] Jeff Malone: Yeah. I think that is a big part here where it's like from the plot, it's around this whole messy white gay thing. It's like, oh, at the same time, like people being messy, then what they actually get away with. And I think there's a lot to say about like what people actually get away with in today's day.

[11:05] Richie Grasso: Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, so. All right. Well, I think it's time to take a quick break.

[11:16] Jeff Malone: And when we'll get back, we'll talk about the direction, the actor performances and the design of this piece.

[11:20] Richie Grasso: Yeah. Okay. And we're back. So let's get into this overall production now and start off with the direction.

[11:25] Jeff Malone: Yeah. So this was directed by, I have the name right here, Mike Donahue. And I thought that overall, this was pretty simple yet effective direction. It wasn't anything too over the top. We had the door, we had the couch, we had the, it was a linear, it felt like we were in a living room studio set. Everything seemed like it moved. The pacing was nice. We were moving actors throughout the space. Well, nothing sat for too long. Everything seemed to flow nice. And I really liked that. So I will totally say that I, from a directing perspective, it was effective. It wasn't too trying to be something it wasn't.

[11:55] Richie Grasso: Yeah. And the staging of this kind of actually reminded me of that play Palm Springs that we saw in that same kind of setup of like being in the unit house, what's happening in Palm Springs, a little a la like Boys in the Band-esque as well. Not as in depth from the plot concept side of things, but I do think like there's a little bit of that when you, you know, get a group of gays together. And then I will say like from a design standpoint too, I found that the lighting with this was fine. It was nothing too, it didn't need to be anything with special lighting, but I also found like it just was like, it seemed like a whitewash on stage for 90 minutes, which is what like probably an SNL TV skit is just like lights up.

And so I feel like I didn't see much design with the lighting, which is fine for this. I just, that was just something that I found that maybe there could have been a little bit more added. I mean, but you know, when you have this big window, you're looking out on the city, it seemed fake looking in terms of like, would there be natural sunlight coming in at this early in the morning? Like, you know, like there could have been some more like aesthetic with that. It didn't bother me though.

[13:03] Jeff Malone: I mean, yeah, it didn't bother me as much either. I think it kind of plays on that whole, like it's the morning, the sun is up, they're clearly like overlooking Columbus Circle or something. Top of hell's kitchen with big windows and this apartment that yeah. And like we're saying, how do they afford this apartment? But there's funny moments that I think happened within the set too, in the scenic design here, especially like when that bird flies in.

[13:27] Richie Grasso: Oh yeah, that was so funny. Oh my God, I came out of nowhere too.

[13:33] Jeff Malone: And the set was good. I thought the set was nice. I thought, you know, it all, all the design choices lent itself to what it needed to be. The music playing at the beginning from the sound design, the music when you're leaving, the costumes, everyone was in a look that was something that people would wear today. Right. I thought it was very good in that way. And I don't mean simple in a bad way. I mean, everything was simple yet effective. And I think that's really important to say from a design team perspective.

[14:02] Richie Grasso: Yeah. And now what about the cast? How did they stand out?

[14:07] Jeff Malone: They all were really great. I mean, I really did enjoy all of their performances. They were all so different in their own way, yet all similar in their own way because they were all kind of messy white gays in this same niche circle, but they were all different. I will say Pete Zayas as Thacker was a standout to me.

[14:48] Jeff Malone: Let's dive into "Messy White Gays." This play really captures a unique moment in Off-Broadway.

[15:18] Richie Grasso: Absolutely, Jeff. The premise alone is intriguing—two guys hiding their throuple mate’s body in a credenza. It sets the stage for some wild comedy.

[15:46] Jeff Malone: Right? And the way it blends satire and farce is just brilliant. It’s a reflection of privilege and the absurdity of their situation.

[16:11] Richie Grasso: I think the setting in a Hell’s Kitchen apartment adds to that chaos. It’s such a relatable backdrop for the characters’ messy lives.

[16:41] Jeff Malone: And the performances! The actors really bring these characters to life. Their chemistry is palpable, which makes the absurdity even funnier.

[17:01] Richie Grasso: Definitely. You can feel the tension and humor in their interactions. It’s like watching a train wreck—you can’t look away.

[17:21] Jeff Malone: Plus, the direction by Mike Donahue really enhances the comedic timing. Every moment feels intentional.

[17:49] Richie Grasso: I agree. The pacing is spot on, and the design elements complement the story beautifully. The costumes, in particular, reflect the characters’ personalities.

[18:09] Jeff Malone: Yes! The costumes add another layer of humor. They’re exaggerated but still grounded in reality, which is a tough balance to strike.

[18:29] Richie Grasso: And the way the set is designed—it's almost like a character in itself. It feels alive with the chaos of the situation.

[18:57] Jeff Malone: Exactly! It’s a perfect representation of their lives—cluttered and chaotic, yet somehow familiar.

[19:10] Richie Grasso: And let’s not forget the writing. Drew Droege has a knack for witty dialogue that keeps the audience engaged.

[19:30] Jeff Malone: His humor is sharp and insightful. It’s not just about the laughs; there’s a deeper commentary on relationships and privilege.

[19:50] Richie Grasso: Right, and that’s what makes it resonate with so many people. It’s relatable, even if the situation is extreme.

[20:15] Jeff Malone: I think that’s what will keep audiences talking about this play long after they leave the theater.

[20:35] Richie Grasso: For sure. It’s a conversation starter, and I love that about it.

[20:55] Jeff Malone: So, where do you think "Messy White Gays" fits into the current Off-Broadway landscape?

[21:07] Richie Grasso: I think it’s a refreshing take. It stands out among other productions by tackling themes that are often overlooked.

[21:27] Jeff Malone: Absolutely. It’s bold and unapologetic, which is exactly what we need right now in theater.

[21:47] Richie Grasso: And it opens the door for more queer narratives to be explored on stage.

[22:07] Jeff Malone: Yes! It’s exciting to see this kind of representation. It’s about time we see more diverse stories.

[22:27] Richie Grasso: I hope this encourages other playwrights to take risks and push boundaries.

[22:47] Jeff Malone: Me too. The success of "Messy White Gays" could pave the way for more innovative works in the future.

[23:07] Richie Grasso: And it’s a reminder that theater can be both entertaining and thought-provoking.

[23:27] Jeff Malone: Exactly! It’s the perfect blend of humor and social commentary.

[23:47] Richie Grasso: I can’t wait to see where this play goes next. It has so much potential.

[24:15] Jeff Malone: Same here! I think it’s going to leave a lasting impact on audiences.

[24:43] Richie Grasso: And it’s a great example of how Off-Broadway can challenge norms and spark discussions.

[24:53] Jeff Malone: Absolutely. It’s a thrilling time for theater, and "Messy White Gays" is at the forefront.

[25:21] Richie Grasso: I’m excited to see how it evolves and what audiences take away from it.

[25:49] Jeff Malone: Me too! It’s definitely a production worth following.

[26:17] Richie Grasso: And I hope listeners check it out if they haven’t already.

[26:45] Jeff Malone: Yes! Support your local theater and experience this unique piece of art.

[27:13] Richie Grasso: Well, that wraps up our discussion on "Messy White Gays."

[27:23] Jeff Malone: Thanks for tuning in, everyone!

[27:33] Richie Grasso: We’ll see you next time for more Broadway insights.

[27:53] Jeff Malone: Until then, keep celebrating the magic of theater!

[28:13] Richie Grasso: Bye, everyone!

[28:33] Jeff Malone: Bye!