This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jeff Malone: Welcome to Half Hour with Jeff & Richie, the podcast where we explore the latest shows we see, sharing our insights and opinions on the performances, storylines, and everything in between.

[0:08] Richie Grasso: In today's episode, we're discussing the off-Broadway production of Midnight. Whether you cannot catch the show in person or want to expand your thoughts after seeing it, this episode is for you.

[0:17] Jeff Malone: And as always, we want to inform you that this episode will contain spoilers, so if you're ready to dive into this production, stick around with us. I'm Jeff.

[0:24] Richie Grasso: And I'm Richie, and we're thrilled to be your hosts for this episode. But before we start the conversation about Midnight, here are a few words from our advertisers.

[0:32] Jeff Malone: Welcome everyone to a new episode of Half Hour with Jeff & Richie. Today, we're discussing the off-Broadway production of Midnight.

[0:38] Richie Grasso: Midnight follows 12 interconnected lives, six black and six white, in the American South during the Civil War years. The essential question, what if the life you inherited had belonged to someone else?

[0:49] Jeff Malone: Okay.

[0:50] Richie Grasso: A little broad, right?

[0:52] Jeff Malone: Yeah. Let's go into some bold statements on Midnight.

[0:56] Richie Grasso: All right, you can go first.

[0:57] Jeff Malone: Okay. I found this musical to be really cutting edge and trying new things and very, very meticulously crafted and organized in a way that is presenting an idea and a theme. And while I do think that it is running a little long, and at times it feels very exhausting, I think that it's got some legs, and I think it could go somewhere with maybe a little bit more further tailoring and some trimming to get to where it wants to go, because it clearly has energy behind it, especially in the extremely talented casting of this as well. And under this umbrella of Todrick Hall's mind and what he's done, playing many roles in this production.

[1:43] Richie Grasso: That's good. My bold statement for Midnight is that I think that this has the right structure and goal to really potentially become an epic musical of our time.

[1:58] Jeff Malone: We'll dive into that.

[2:00] Richie Grasso: Let's get into it, yes.

[2:01] Jeff Malone: All right. So we go to Midnight off Broadway, and we see this production, and this theme and this concept has this different Act One versus different Act Two approach. We're going to make Act Two very different than Act One. Now, this is not the first time for you theater history people, because there's many shows where Act Two takes very different turns than Act One. We don't see it as much lately, but the one that comes to the front of my mind mostly is Into the Woods. We have Act One of Into the Woods is like actually what most children's productions wind up doing. And then we go to Act Two, which gets very serious and very dark. And there was times, I think, actually, possibly in the original Into the Woods where people like, oh, is it over?

I'm leaving now. I'm like, no, no, no. You don't even know what's coming in Act Two. But I think what this is, we're seeing a story unfold in Act One. We're seeing homosexual relations. We're seeing race issues. We're seeing lots going on here, lots of character development. But if you listen to some of the lyrics, you hear things every once in a while that are like, if only you could be in my shoes. If only you understood what I was going through. If only, you know, what if the roles were switched? Right? So I'm like, oh, okay. There's some foreshadowing in some of that lyric. You get to intermission, you get to Act Two, and there is this complete swap. So already when I see that, I say, oh, these characters have completely switched now.

That's in and of itself, I think kind of bold and brave to do something like that and to get everybody in your team on board for that. I'm sure in the rehearsal room, there were questions about that. Wait, how do I do this now? Wait, how do I do that now? Do I play the character like this? Do they play? And under Todrick Hall's vision, there was probably a lot to flesh out. So I'm already kind of saying, oh, this rehearsal room process was probably pretty cool that you got to work through so much of that. And then I think adding in some beautiful costume design, some incredible singing and wonderful talent, some beautiful choreography, I think they're making a big piece work in a small space.

And we're going to talk about the design and the direction and performances in a bit. But I think this whole concept and going to midnight, like, yes. Do I feel like I'm sitting there and I'm listening to like, oh, that's a lot of Hamilton there. Oh, there's a lot of Cinderella there. Oh, there's a lot of color purple there. Oh, there's a lot like there's a lot of references to things. But I will always say, you know, Stephen Sondheim worked with Rogers and Hammerstein, right? Jonathan Larson observed everything Stephen Sondheim was doing. Lin-Manuel Miranda was inspired by Jonathan Larson. Do you see what I'm doing here? This was the I always say that like the torch being passed by some of these greats.

I'm missing a ton of people, of course, and there's so many wonderful things in there. But when you see that, why couldn't someone like Todrick Hall say this worked in Richard Rogers or Oscar Hammerstein? This worked in Stephen Sondheim. This worked in Jason Robert Brown. This worked with Jonathan Larson. This worked with Lin-Manuel Miranda. Now, maybe I can take bits and pieces of that, but then make it my own. That's what I saw in the concept. And before I let you chime in on YouTube, the last thing I'll say is, and that's great, but I just don't know how it can last a three whole hours because it's being billed as like 245. It is three hours and that's very long, even for a modern audience.

Now, I'm not saying go to 90 minutes, but I'm saying I wonder if we need to kind of sit here with the magnifying glass and kind of trim and chop and trim and chop a little bit to kind of get that concept. Because I think you can still get the concept and the plot down if we just trim 20 or 30 minutes off of it. That's my thought process as of now.

[5:34] Richie Grasso: Yeah, I think that there were many things that were interesting and attention grabbing in this piece. And I think Todrick really does a great job of doing his theater homework and being inspired. Yes, did some moments feel very inspired by certain things, especially like, you know, more fairytale-like stories, Cinderella? There were setups in the piece that felt like, oh, OK, well, like he felt very inspired by that and brought that into the piece. That's fine. I don't think it's copying at all. I think it's inspired because it also is different. There were things that were changed. I think he had to do a very big setup here as well, because, you know, the big spoiler in here is that the roles change from act one to act two, and you need to have equal amounts of roles so that the actors can all swap.

So it did at times feel like there were a lot of characters added into this that you had to kind of follow along to make sure that everyone had a different role that they were now swapping into in the second act. So that's where I feel like there is a lot happening and probably a criticism that he was thinking about when writing this was like, oh, like if I'm introducing these three people, I have to give them more. Or if I have, you know, this character over here, I also have to give that one more so that when we do do the role swap in act two, it makes sense. That could be my only thing on like why there's so much happening in this piece. But yeah, I don't know. Like we're in a modern day of theater and the attention span of a lot of theater goers is very small.

So that's why we're seeing more and more no intermission, 90-minute musicals coming to the stage. They're kind of having success. And like he's like, no, we're going epic with this. We're doing like what some of the greats have done on the stage. And I do applaud him on that because I didn't feel like this was so long because I'm used to seeing a longer musical. And it was engaging enough to kind of say like, oh, OK, no, I get what's going on here. But do some things get lost? Yes. And there is a lot of chatter on the Internet where people are very confused by certain things. And if you are not fully invested in this piece, you are going to miss certain things that are very, very important to the plot line here.

[8:01] Jeff Malone: Yes. And not to mention, sometimes I felt, you know, this is like basically through composed. So we have that Les Mis feel to it. Has that Hamilton? Hamilton's not very much. So at times they're composed with it. You know, but I also wonder if maybe that was done because how many times have we seen so many modern shows of the last 15, 20 years? And we say, oh, the story was great. The acting was great. The score is great. That book, though, the book scenes of that musical, the book scenes like I actually think we're in a little bit of an interesting place right now in musical theater history where I'm not seeing all the time, extremely great book scenes in between great musical theater. Right.

And I think we used to have some great book scenes. Now, some golden age things, those book scenes were way too long. Right. But I think the idea of Todrick saying we're not going to do book scenes. We're going to tell this fully through music is great. However, sometimes that leads to be like I felt like there was a song going on and then it was like it was over. Oh, wait. Oh, the song's over now. And now we're moving on to the next song. Could we have instead of trimming each song down, maybe we just completely remove a song? It is totally normal for productions of the past 50, 75 years to just remove a song when it's not working. It's a cut song. That's OK if that's what we need to do. But I did so many characters have to sing so many plot lines.

I wonder if we're worried, oh, that character now doesn't have this much or we lose character if we pull. So if they're sticking strong to their basically three-hour run. And I hate to say that because I know they're not billing it like that. But we did start the show at two and end the show. We got out of five. So it was a full three hours we were there. Right. So I'm wondering, you know, when shows start late and things, you know, change. So that makes sense. Whatever. But yeah. But if we're going back to the actual structure of this, you know, probably some more studying of like, how does Hamilton flow so easily into its next moment? Because it takes beats. Correct. Calms down for a little bit.

It pulls you down to something quiet and still. It's quiet uptown in Hamilton. Makes me tear up because I think of the beauty of the simplicity of that piece. Burn. It's just a stand and sing. It's just it's not full of choreo. So I know there are moments and any many musical theater pieces will have those ballads of just pull it down for good and wicked. That epic, epic story brings us down to this like minute to just listen to these two women sing. So I just wish we pulled down and rooted a little bit more in some calm. If you're going to keep it at three minutes, look what Les Mis does. We have plenty of bring him home. Brings us down. We talked about we just saw the production. Hudson Valley Shakespeare of Les Mis.

That's almost three hours, too, but we bring it down. Yes. But the point is, when we saw that there was even still so much that we learned in that piece from seeing this production, like how many times have we seen productions of Les Mis now? It just how you are fully invested.

[10:49] Richie Grasso: To the production and what is actually being said, and who are you following the plot line with? You know, like I was saying to you, like we were really following the Tinardiers a lot in that production. But also going back to Hamilton, there is a lot that is also happening within the orchestrations and letting it flow nicely into each other versus, you know, where I think Midnight is having a harder time is like, I don't find the scenes easily completely flowing into each other enough. And it's more like, we need to be getting so much of this story out so you understand it. And where I think like there is a harder time here is like, we don't know any of the characters in Midnight. When you go into Hamilton, you know who they are.

You know who Hamilton is, you know who Burr is, you know who George Washington is. So you're like, okay, I don't need to know more about their actual story. I can now just follow along because I already know who that character is. So I think when you're going through something like Midnight, you're saying like, okay, I have to connect with them and I have to connect with them. And I do think like the opening number to Midnight also needs like another look at because there is so much being told to you in that beginning that I don't think it kind of really tackles the job of like what Ragtime is doing when they're starting off that piece, or even what Hamilton is doing when it starts off that piece, or even when Les Mis starts off.

Like we don't have that moment yet in Midnight that's really telling us like, this is what we're doing, you know? And like instead you're like, wow, that was a lot and I hope I'm following correctly, right? So all right, well, let's take a quick break here. And when we get back, we're going to get into the overall production here and design.

[12:34] Jeff Malone: Okay, and we're back. So let's get into the overall production here and start off with the creative team. So I mean, Todrick's doing a lot here. Book, music, lyrics, direction, choreography. I think Todrick's doing something stronger than others with this. To hold one, two, three, four, five titles of your own show is brave and it's bold. But I think you need to bring in, I'm not saying a show doctor, you know, that kind of has a bad connotation when Broadway brings in show doctors or co-directors and things. I just think I would want Todrick to say, I was kind of saying this too as we were leaving the theater, I wonder what he really, oh, and he's starring in it. So he not only did those five things, but he's also starring in it.

And it does feel like that. And it feels like, I just wonder if this is going to elevate to a bigger space, which it seems like they really want to. They've really, I mean, this could go next step to Broadway, given the fact that they've elevated every single second of this, right? If you want to go there, my personal recommendation to Todrick would be pull back on one or two things, meaning bring a co-choreographer in who's going to sit in the house the whole time. Bring a co-director in who's going to sit in the house the whole time. Bring a book or lyric person who's going to come in and say, hey, we don't need that, cut that or trim that or expand that. Or he could completely take the other route and he doesn't have to be in it and he can only be on the creative side.

[13:59] Richie Grasso: Yeah. But I think that eventually we might need to make a decision here. Was Lin-Manuel Miranda the writer of Hamilton and starring in it? Yes. But Lin-Manuel Miranda did not direct it and did not choreograph it. So we have to remember that you can totally write your piece and be in it. But I just wonder if putting other eyes on it, people you trust, people who you're on your team with your vision could just be sitting at all times in the house and say, that's too long. That's great. Keep that. Oh, I love that. Right? Because you're in it. You're busy. I'm not saying this is anything against you as a creative artist, but eventually there's only so I know when I'm directing pieces, I know I'm much better at directing than choreographing. I don't choreograph a lot of my own pieces because I'm not a dancer and I'm not a choreographer, but I know to find the choreographer that I know is going to work with my vision. Right?

[14:41] Jeff Malone: Yeah. So like, I think that there's a lot of layers to that and I do think he's doing a lot of great things here, but I wonder if it's a lot. Right. Cause I feel like it's the easiest thing that someone's going to tackle and be like, Hey, maybe you should bring more of a collaborative team in on this piece with you because you are doing so much. I could not imagine doing all of those things. And then also starring. Yeah. It seems like you would be exhausted. And you know, I do applaud him that he wants to take on so many of those roles, but like, yeah, if you wrote the book, music and lyrics, great. And you want to star in it. Great. But like bring someone in to bring your vision to life, bring a choreographer in here to really take it to the next level.

Because I will say from watching this production, I would say that was the one thing that really was missing for me in this space, a nice big choreographed number that was happening multiple times throughout the piece. And it's hard when you're in a smaller space, it's clearly like bursting at the seams of this theater, like the set, the costumes, the lighting. And when we talk about some of the design, I will say Jake DeGroote's lighting design was absolutely incredible. I was blown away by how we lit that set and those actors in that space in a small space. That was one of the strongest designs of the whole piece. Costume designs, extremely elevated right on task with the period look and very, very strong choice of costume design, I thought.

[16:06] Richie Grasso: Yeah, the lighting design and also the costume design was Beck Jones. Sorry. Yeah. And I also found the sound design to be really well done in this space that was done by Laurence Schober. And for a piece that is completely sung through, it really, you could really hear a lot. I did not feel like I was like, oh, the music's too loud or I'm missing lyrics or something.

[16:32] Jeff Malone: Right. And as long as you're really paying attention and you're not zoning out, yeah. Okay. The sound design was done really well. And how many times do you and I leave a Broadway theater that say that sound design was a mess? And sometimes sound design works better in smaller spaces. It just does sometimes. I will also say Morgan Large's set design really brings this epicness with the clock that moves and the ramps on the side and the orchestra being back there. It was just an elevated experience. Could we have gotten heavy projection on this? Sure. Because when you're in a small space, sometimes it's just easier to do that. Right. But they went full throttle with the scenic design of this. I just thought the whole design of that orchestrations, we have strong orchestrations, Mark Crossland, Laurence Stanard, music direction, supervision, and arrangements like Laurence Stanard as well. I just think we have some great stuff going on there.

[17:19] Richie Grasso: And I think we also have to talk about this acting company that is full of extremely talented people. It is one of the strongest ensembles I have seen in a very long time in terms of vocals, in terms of singing harmony. The harmonies are beautiful. Beautiful harmony. And when you hear choral singing harmony, that's not, I'm not saying every modern musical theater piece is like this. When you see that belting rock, modern musical theater, and it's like two or three part harmony, just belt, belt, belt. This was more like, I almost thought I heard four part harmony, five part harmony at times, because I thought it was so beautifully intricate. And I thought that was extremely strong. And speaking of some of these performances, what are some characters or actors that stood out to you in general?

[17:59] Jeff Malone: First off, I'm immediately going to Ethel, who's played by Ayanna George. I'm like, listen, sing me all the way home, because amazing. And the acting through song that she is giving us through this piece is just top tier.

[18:18] Richie Grasso: Yeah, totally. I did enjoy Todrick Hall as Rail and Jeremy Billow as Richard. I almost wondered if I could have had more time with them together, because if you're focusing on like midnight being this time where they're together and they're enjoying their company, I was waiting for like as long as your mind, Wicked moment, where they're like, you know, in Wicked, they have to like escape and they have this whole song together. And it was just them on the floor singing. I almost wish we had a little more of that, but their performances are strong.

[18:41] Jeff Malone: Yeah, they had a great dynamic between each other. You know, a lot of chatter that's happening on the internet right now between them is that people did not really realize that Rail was not his slave and that they actually did fall in love with each other on their own. And Rail was just working for him. So, you know, there was a lot of chatter on that. So I found like, oh, that might be something that needs another look at as well, if people are missing that, because that was something that I saw. I did see that like they did fall in love with each other on their own. He did want to hire him as an employee to work on his house. So, you know, I think they did a great job with each other, but I do not think that we have enough time between the two of them to actually show this loving relationship develop.

I will also say Lily Rose, Charlotte O'Desagna was very wonderful to watch in this piece. And I was really blown away by her. I enjoyed her so much. And what a character change from act one to act two. Really, really strong stuff. Bella Coppola as Violet. I mean, we love Bella. She, we loved her in Smash. I think she's just wonderful and I really enjoy her.

[19:53] Richie Grasso: Yeah. We kept saying like, when are we seeing her next in something? And here she is. Yep. Great performance. And like I said, the ensemble is working. Everybody in this whole show is working really hard because you could tell, you know, I left there thinking, you could tell they want to go further with this. They want to have a great strong run. It's only as of, as of our recording right now, only running a couple more weeks. If it's trying to do a Broadway transfer soon, you know, we'll talk about that in the next segment, but I think in general, this is a group of people that want this to go further. And we're sitting here saying, yeah, there's some great stuff happening here. I just wonder if it needs a little bit more time to kind of doctor and look at some things and kind of fix up and clean up before it goes to that.

[20:29] Jeff Malone: Yeah. I leave you with a question in this section, because I think that this is probably the biggest question is when we go from act one to act two and all of the actors have to switch roles. Do you feel that you had a different reaction to the actor in the additional role?

[20:48] Richie Grasso: I think I, I think that concept allowed me as an audience member to put my brain in a higher gear and to think more and just like, oh, now I got, you know, it was a trust your audience moment. It was like, oh, I'm, I times I was like, am I remembering that actor in that role or remembering that character? And it forced me to realize we are looking at characters, but there's different actors playing those characters. And now I need to look at this character in a different lens. And so that is what I appreciated the most of this is as an audience member, I'm able to sit there and say, oh, I can kind of zone out now. I can't say every single time that actor works on, I know that character, because now I'm a different character.

I don't think that's confusing. I just think it allows you to say, well, you know, how many times do I leave shows, Jeff? And I said, oh my gosh, they're, they're spoon feeding everything to the audience. Like they don't allow me to think for myself because they're spoon feeding everything to me. I didn't feel that with that concept. I

[21:39] Jeff Malone: That was cool that we were able to say, oh, I got to think of this actor differently now, I got to think of this character differently now. So I thought that was an interesting way to look at act two for me. I felt when I think a little bit more about it, I go back to the performance and I say to myself, oh, okay, did the actor still keep their same demeanor and idea of who they were in both roles? So like when Todrick switched roles, did he still keep the same demeanor? And I kind of felt like he did. And then I kind of watched each other actor as well and they kind of still kept their same role, which I think like their same way that they were performing their first role versus how they were performing the second.

And I look at that and I say, oh, that's interesting because then it goes back to the tagline of the show, which is like, what if the life you inherited had belonged to someone else? And do you play it still the same way? So like if you and I swapped roles right now in who we are, would we still act the same way?

[22:44] Richie Grasso: Well, and that's interesting because I think I slightly disagree because I did feel like some of the actors did change a little bit with some of the roles. It depended on the role, to be honest. And I think that it was just a different, but that's the beauty of this is we can leave there saying, oh, that was similar. And why was it similar? Maybe that's the reason. Or versus, oh, that character really changed. Okay, cool, I wonder why, right?

[23:07] Jeff Malone: Right, or was, yeah, was the character supposed to say the same the whole time, even when they were played by different actors? Like you can go to a character like Happy and say, oh, okay, I kind of felt like she was played two different ways, but should she have been played the same way? That's a question.

[23:27] Richie Grasso: Right. So it's a lot to think about there.

[23:30] Jeff Malone: Yeah, it gets you thinking. All right, so let's take another quick break. And when we get back, we'll get into our own thoughts about the show and some final questions of what we think might be next for Midnight.

[23:39] Richie Grasso: Okay, and we're back. So let's get into our own experience that happened at the show. So, you know, the Daryl Roth Theater is a nice theater right in Union Square. I think people seem to enjoy it for the most part. I think I'm hearing a lot of chatter and buzz about this on social media, with people really enjoying a lot of this experience from what I'm seeing so far. And some not. And yeah, there's a mix of people, right? There's a mix of people on this. But I will say, you know, in terms of my experience, well, first of all, I did want to mention Bronwyn Tarbaton, who's in the ensemble, went on for Kennedy Carlisle as Scarlett. We did not see Kennedy in it, so kudos to her. Also, Autumn Herbert played Charlotte in Act One.

And then Emily Yates, as The Swing, went on for Charlotte in Act Two. And I'm not even sure how much rehearsal time she had, but I was very impressed with her going in mid-show and finishing the role. That's always the beauty of live theater. And that's so cool. And I hope that, of course, Autumn is okay. But, you know, I think it was very, and you could tell the ensemble really appreciated that.

[24:32] Jeff Malone: Oh, you can tell that this ensemble has been working very hard, you know, and also they look a little tired. So this is a very, very demanding show. And I know that they are still changing things on the fly. And, you know, the show had just opened, I think, two days ago from now, when we were recording this. So I think, yeah, there was a lot happening in this piece. And I still think that there is a lot more that is going to happen to this piece, which, wherever it goes after that. And that's why I think, you know, I would personally recommend that if they want this to go to Broadway, that it closes now off Broadway when it's going too soon or whatever, and then sit with it for a little bit.

I wouldn't rush this to the spring. I think that this should take a year. It doesn't need another production. You could workshop it if you want in a cheaper level in a studio, or maybe just put some people together and try some new things out. I don't think it needs a massive overhaul. I just think it needs a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And I wonder if it allows Todrick to say, I closed the show, I'm going to take the holidays and just sleep on it. Come January, I'm going to just kind of rebuild a little bit my strength and my energy and look at this again, because he cares about it clearly. It's his baby. And anybody who puts this much title onto themselves to do this show should feel like they can take a step from it and breathe with it and let it sit and listen to people who are telling you things, right?

And then say, you know what? I will cut some of this, or I will change a little bit of that. And then try to maybe get investors buying it for Broadway next year, maybe, if that's what they want to do.

[26:01] Richie Grasso: He is getting a lot of feedback from the theater community on this piece right now. So I think that this is a great time for him to really do what you're saying and take a seat, look at what everyone's saying, reanalyze the project, maybe sit down in a round table with other creatives that he trusts, and maybe he wants to bring other people in. Does he want a star in this? Does he want to direct this? Does he want to choreograph this? Where does he stand with it? Does he bring someone else in to help with the book music and lyrics and really finalize what this show is going to be before it moves to a bigger place like Broadway?

[26:42] Jeff Malone: I don't think we need another off-Broadway run of this. I think that this show is too big for off-Broadway and probably needs the bigger house to kind of show off what this show is all about and would not get eaten up by a stage. I think that this show is eating up an off-Broadway stage right now because it is too big for something like the Daryl Roth Theater. And I don't really think that there's another theater out there that's in the off-Broadway space that is big enough for it. So that's why I'm saying like, yes, I definitely think Broadway is next, not this season, probably could go next season, but I do think he needs to take in and really edit and respond to what so many people are saying about this piece.

And so many people are talking about it because I do think at the end of the day, we all want an original new concept musical on Broadway. We want that. Some Broadway is very tired of the rinse and repeat style of movie to stage to, and some things closing so early and not working. Let's, yeah, we want this to succeed, or many people do at least. And so that's why the feedback is what I try to give is always constructive. I didn't write this, but I'm looking at it and I'm saying, okay, I see passion here. I see a story that wants to be told. I just want it to be as successful as it can be. No one wants to see it get to those big stakes of Broadway and then say, couldn't sell tickets, bad reviews, closed early, no one wants those three things, right?

[28:04] Richie Grasso: And I will say one thing, the very, very end, I understand pre-show music. Sometimes I even understand intermission music. I know they're playing more modern music. They're playing a lot of music by black artists. I think that's great. I just wonder if we always need music. The second the piece was over at the end of act one, we're like playing music during intermission. And then I actually think my favorite song or one of my favorite songs is the post-bow song when they're singing there, they're standing there and just singing this beautiful, gorgeous choral harmony. And I was left with that. And then they're playing canned music as the exit music, I think, again. And I was like, we don't always need the canned music.

To start a show, I'm always for an ambient sound effect, some music to kind of get us in the mode. I think we saw a show last year at MTC and it was like this extremely loud pre-show music. And I'm like, I just, there's something about pre-show music, intermission music, and post-show music when it's canned that choose the song and just, it doesn't always have to be really loud or we don't even need it all the time. That's just a personal thing. Because I loved that ending post-bow song that they all sang. I just thought that was wonderful.

[29:06] Jeff Malone: So I hope they keep that. I know we're getting close to the end here, but I do have one question I want to ask you because there's a lot of chatter happening around this right now. And it's around, should you critique a show that you have not seen?

[29:18] Richie Grasso: I think you gotta see it.

[29:22] Jeff Malone: Yeah.

[29:23] Richie Grasso: I think you gotta see it. I think, of course, it's difficult and this is expensive and not everyone lives in New York. And that's, you know, but I think you got it. I think, how do you, how do I adjudicate or I'm not saying I'm judging things all the time, but how do I give my opinion on things if I've never heard the song? If I don't, oh, I don't know if I like that artist. Well, have you heard that artist's new album? No. Okay, well, how would I even know to, right? Same thing with, it's all art forms. Movies, film, theater, opera, dance pieces. Oh, I don't like opera. Well, have you ever seen an opera? No. How do you know you don't like opera? Go to an opera if you can, right? I always say that and art too. So no, I think you gotta see it or try to at least or see some part of it or listen to some of it because then that allows you to soak it in as a human and say, oh, okay, this is my, I'm attuned to that.

[30:10] Jeff Malone: Yeah, I do think that art is meant to be seen and I don't think you should fully critique something that you have not seen. I think some people are making the argument that the show is not really presenting itself in what the show actually is and a lot of people are critiquing that. So I don't know if you would agree with that or not that maybe they need a rewrite of what the synopsis is but I do think people should be seeing this before everyone tries to cancel it. Hopefully, I know there's a lot of mixed thoughts on this but in general, I do think that there's some, I guess I don't know, there's some legs here.

[30:46] Richie Grasso: Yeah, so.

[30:48] Jeff Malone: Oh my gosh, we're almost out of time. Okay, final thoughts on Midnight Off-Broadway. I think, you know, I was pleasantly surprised by a piece like this. I think that Todrick is really working very hard into creating something that is really almost Broadway ready for the stage. It is huge, there's a lot happening. It does need some work but there's so much there that I think can be built on and edited and fixed and then go on to potentially being a huge epic that we talk about for a long time. So I, you know, if you can get to see it, I would definitely try to check it out. Like I said, I think this has legs similar to what you're saying. I think this can really get somewhere. There's a lot of wonderful things happening here.

I just wonder if there needs to be a little bit of a couple more eyes coming in on looking at it, trimming a little bit, getting some of it condensed more, getting it ready, it's close. I think it needs a little bit of time still but I do really enjoy the majority of it and I don't mean to say it's exhausting in a bad way. If you really want to get all this messaging out in your story, you don't want everyone to leave there feeling like, wow, that was too much, right? And so I think, I wish them the best. There's so much talent on that stage and behind that stage and I want people to see that talent, incredible stuff, you know, in general.

[32:05] Richie Grasso: Well, let's just wrap up our discussion for this episode. We hope you enjoyed our deep dive into Midnight. Remember, we want to hear from you. Continue the conversation with us on Instagram and TikTok at Half Hour Podcast and drop us a comment on Spotify and let us know your thoughts on Midnight. Please also leave us a review. Your reviews mean so much to us and remember to subscribe to our channel for all past and future episodes. Until next time, I'm Jeff.

[32:26] Richie Grasso: And I'm Richie saying ta-ta for now.

[32:27] Jeff Malone: Bye.