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[0:00] Jeff Malone: Welcome to Half Hour with Jeff & Richie, the podcast where we explore the latest shows we see, sharing our insights and opinions on the performances, storylines, and everything in between. In today's episode, we'll be discussing the new Broadway musical THE OUTSIDERS. Whether you cannot catch the show in person or you want to expand your thoughts after seeing it, this episode is for you. And as always, we want to inform you that this episode will contain spoilers, so if you're ready to dive into the production, stick around with us. I'm Jeff.

[0:27] Richie Grasso: And I'm Richie, we're thrilled to be your hosts for today's episode. So let's start the conversation about THE OUTSIDERS on Broadway. Half Hour.

[0:41] Jeff Malone: Welcome, everyone, to the new episode of Half Hour with Jeff & Richie. Today, we're talking about the new Broadway musical THE OUTSIDERS. In Tulsa, Oklahoma, 1967, the heart and aching souls of Ponyboy Curtis, Johnny Cade, and their chosen family of Outsiders are in a fight for survival and a quest for purpose in a world that may never accept them. A story of the bonds that brothers share and the hopes we all hold on to, this gripping new musical reinvigorates the timeless tale of haves and have-nots of protecting what's yours and fighting for what could be. Adapted from S.E. Hinton's seminal book and Francis Ford Coppola's iconic film, THE OUTSIDERS features a book by Adam Rapp with Justin Levine, music and lyrics by Jamestown Revival, which is Jonathan Clay and Zach Chance, and Justin Levine, music supervision arrangements and orchestration by Justin Levine, choreography by Rick Cooperman and Jeff Cooperman, and direction by Danya Taymor.

Okay, so as always, let's start with our bold statements about the piece and see how that unfolds into our discussion. All right, bold statement on THE OUTSIDERS is, if the future of Broadway is direction by Danya Taymor and choreography by Rick and Jeff Cooperman, then I think we are in very good hands for a long time.

[1:52] Richie Grasso: And I'm going to say, bold statement, THE OUTSIDERS will most likely win the Tony for Best New Musical this year.

[1:59] Jeff Malone: Wow, and that's coming from someone who hasn't seen every show yet this season, so that's a bold statement.

[2:02] Richie Grasso: That is truly bold. Hey, I'm going to say what I'm going to say, right?

[2:09] Jeff Malone: Well, let's dive into this. I also want our listeners to know something. Most times, Jeff and I will either read a book or see a film, or we'll have seen an original run of a show of this somewhere before seeing a show. We went with a different approach where Jeff has read this book and seen this movie. I have not read the book or seen the movie. So we are talking about both going to see the musical from very different lenses, and now we're sitting here talking about it from those. So if you are someone who hasn't seen the book or movie, you're going to kind of hear some of my perspective on that. If you're someone who has seen the movie or the book or both, Jeff's going to kind of have his perspective on it.

[2:42] Richie Grasso: And let me put that into perspective as well. This was in the sixth grade, so some time has gone by during this time. But I did not re-watch the film, and I did not re-read the book since then. So as much as I knew what was going to happen, I loved not having that refresher ahead of seeing this show. So with that…

[3:06] Richie Grasso: Going into some overall concept here, I was learning the plot as we went. I had my moments because I was like, oh my gosh, what? And I'm just watching this whole story unfold. And I was immediately immersed in the time period, in the energy of these performers, of the world we were supposed to live in with them. I was totally there. Nothing to me seemed out of place. I felt like everything was just right. The acting from every single person, even down to the gravel pebbles on the ground as they were kicking up as they were dancing, I felt like I was in Oklahoma with that. I just felt so immersed. The set was like, and I mean this with all due respect, this bare bones set that was used to the fullest.

Every inch of that set was climbed on and walked over and used. And I felt like I was immersed in this story, and I felt for these people. And how many times, Jeff, have I sat here on this podcast and said, I didn't feel, I didn't feel for that. I didn't feel, I felt for everyone. I felt such emotion and sadness for these people. There was a looming depressive sadness amongst this whole plot, which maybe you can speak more for the book or film, if it's supposed to have that sad energy to it. I just felt so sad for everyone.

[4:22] Jeff Malone: You know, I feel like with this musical, it's a pretty straightforward musical if we're going to be for real, right? I mean, narrator in the beginning, into dance numbers, plot, great set, you know, it's nothing groundbreaking. But it has everything right for a musical. And it was thought out. So why I wanted to kind of touch on this storyline here in the plot early now is because I think with these book writers and music writers for this show, they really knew how to take the best parts of the book, they took the best parts of the movie, and they expanded them and thought about them on how they can include them in this musical without repeating the same thing that already happened. So where you and I have a lot of issues with stuff that was either a book first, or a movie first, and then moving to the stage, and they're just literally repeating and doing a lazy production of something that we've already seen. This did not do that.

[5:33] Richie Grasso: You're right. This was so, and I didn't even see the book or the movie, but I've already seen the way that fight scenes are occurring, the way that killings and love interests, and I'm like, ooh, this is the original feeling. Let's put it this way. If I didn't know this was a book or movie, I would have thought this was an original show. I really, and I do not say that lightly, I really would have thought, when you see Company, ironically, in the same theatre, and Company is this good original concept, and you're like, oh, this is so original. That's what I felt like with Outsiders, that I was watching something that was, when people say, oh, it's cookie cutter, it's for the youth, everyone reads this as a kid, I'm like, no, I don't know there's human stuff going on here. There's love, there's death, there's tragedy, and it's a specific time period, in a specific area of the world, with specific people struggling about specific things.

[6:26] Jeff Malone: Yeah, I mean, you know what? People can say what they want about the storyline. They could say, oh, it's for teenagers, or it's a coming-of-age tale. It is. Who cares? There's so many things that are coming-of-age tales that people love, like it's a coming-of-age tale in its own way, so get out of here with that. I would say, when you look at a musical like this, though, you have to really dig deep into what's happening here. This takes place in 1967, okay? Hippie, 70s rock, country vibes, blue jeans, all of that stuff. Put that in here, and we could have made this look like it was in 1967, right? And it had every moment of that, where you have the Grease effect, and you have the West Side Story effect, and all of those things. Take all of these great shows that we know, and put them into a pot, and we've melted into The Outsiders, with all the right reasons, and right elements of it. But the story looks modern.

[7:33] Richie Grasso: When you take this, and besides the smoking, and I really hope children are not smoking like teenagers anymore, besides that, you look at this and you say, yeah, this is the modern style of this, with great costumes, a great scenic design here. And I love, love, love when it comes to the scenic design, that it looks like we're in the park the whole time. We never have to go to the rich part of town, where the rich kids are. We never have to go to the homes of these people. It's all just there, and you know it's there. But then when the car was on stage the whole time, and they put a blanket on the car, and laid on the car, you knew you were on a bed, or a couch, and the TV was out, and the kitchen table was out, and that's all you needed.

You trusted your audience that you knew where we were. We were at the movie theater. We were out at the church, even. They were up at the church, hiding out in the loft. The ensemble was using every inch of that space to the fullest. You had a water well on downstage right, in a big tire, and that was used for multiple things. They would just run their hand and splash it, and you were reminded. I think physical elements of water, of sand, of cars. I think there's something really gritty and exciting about that. Nothing seems fake. When you're dunking someone's head in water, my first thought is, are they wearing a microphone? How are they doing that? Because it's so amazing how strong that is, and so it is.

This is clearly a team that worked together, and I didn't feel like this was a, hey, we wrote the score for The Outsiders. Now go do what you want. I felt like this was like, hey, we wrote the score for The Outsiders. Who's designing this with us? Who's getting in on the boat, and let's row this boat together, and let's tell this story from this novel and movie perspective?

[9:17] Jeff Malone: You know what I'm going to say is, I don't think that this score was written first, or the book. Well, the book was written first, haha, but it wasn't. I really think it was like, the script for this was taken, and then they started saying, okay, we need to have a song in here, and we're going to, can you write a song about what it would be like, and let's talk about the elements now from the book that were taken. So some of the stuff that I know here is like, stay gold. Stay golden. That's a big thing. Him reading Great Expectations is a big part of this. So when you're taking those elements, and this is what I always say to you, it's like, how did we not evolve the big elements into some of these musicals that were movies, or like, iconic books, or something like that?

And this show really does that. When you're singing the song about Great Expectations, but it's not the book. It's the book, but it's not like, we're not just repeating words from the book. They wrote a real song about how he felt with reading Great Expectations, and what he wanted to apply to that into his life. It's so smart. Where was that in the notebook? Where was the point where she was kissed for the first time? And there's a song about her being kissed for the first time, and evolved into something bigger. It was missing, but this didn't have that. And this, by Jamestown Revival, and maybe you could speak more about them than me. I don't know much about them, but I'm usually not a folk rock, bluegrass kind of a fan.

I mean, when I think of some of the music, I wasn't a big fan of the Almost Famous score, right? I didn't really think any of that stood out to me. But I'm listening to this, and I'm like, oh, like Hadestown, which some songs in Hadestown I like, some I don't. But there's this movement on Broadway right now for these folk bluegrass sounds. And this totally had it. If I was to give a slight critique on the score, I think there were three ballads in a row in Act Two that were all about the same tempo. And so I don't feel like it dragged at all, but I did feel like there was one too many ballads. I know we were getting to some serious sad stuff at the end, but we didn't really have an upbeat number in most of Act Two until the very end. That was one slight critique I had on the score. But I mean, what can you say about these guys, Jonathan Clay and Zach Chance from Jamestown Revival?

[12:18] Jeff Malone: I'm folky. I mean, it's that sound, and they brought their sound in here to the right way. Whereas Ingrid wrote the score to The Notebook, and you kind of have to say, okay, she brought so much of her sound in there, but it was missing the theatrical elements. This was elevated folk music in a musical with The Outsiders. You know, they knew how to tell a story in every single song they put on that stage, and everything continued to drive the plot of that musical. There was no filler whatsoever.

[12:22] Jeff Malone: Welcome back.

[12:24] Richie Grasso: We'll be right back.

[12:24] Richie Grasso: And that's why I do want to move a little bit onto some of these character performances in this direction. We have seen Tanya Taymor's work in Jonah a few months ago. Tanya Taymor is really making something happen on that stage. If she does not get a Tony nomination for this, at the very least, I don't know what else to say. Moments that stood out to me from a direction and choreography standpoint were when he was being drowned in the tub, and then the lights went red. Once again, remember, I didn't know the plot. I thought Ponyboy died right there. I said, oh my god, they just killed him. And then the lights went out. I said, oh my gosh. And the lights were up, and there was the bully laying in his blood in the water with the other guy standing there with the knife. What a trust of an audience moment. You trusted us to totally go there with you. We didn't need to see him stab him. The audience literally went, I couldn't believe it.

[13:17] Jeff Malone: Hello, it's theater. You need shock value. That's what I'm talking about. Clearly, Tanya knows what she's doing.

[13:25] Richie Grasso: Totally. She is someone who has taken the elements of West Side Story. We know the rumble in West Side Story. We know the stabbing and how Act One ends in West Side Story. It's like you take that, and you make it your own by doing this blackout, up, dead, literal water on stage, drowning. It all made sense. It just totally was one of the strongest directorial things I've seen on stage this season, that moment.

[13:52] Jeff Malone: Right, but not only that, she's directing these actors how to act. I mean, a lot of these actors, their Broadway debuts, they haven't been on this stage before. And you look at them, they're constantly working on that stage. They're not just standing there and watching the scene happening. They are acting throughout. And another big part of this is the lighting design by Brian McDevitt in here was...

[14:16] Richie Grasso: Top notch. Brilliant. Brilliant. Brilliant. Working with the direction on this stage. 110%.

[14:24] Jeff Malone: And then I think with a choreo standpoint, they're just throwing these bodies around in the most stylized way. Because I've seen messy choreo where choreo can be throwing people and you're like, what's happening? This was so stylized where it was like, oh, there's a little Greece-esque 50s and 60s dance style. But then there's also some like a West Side Story ballet. But then there's also some like rough and tough pop modern joltee dance with the kicking of the dirt. I was like, yes, everything is just hybrid working here. It's all working. And a moment for me that will totally go down in my mind is one of the most, I don't think I breathed for one whole minute, was the rumble fight in the rain, blood being thrown everywhere.

They're soaking wet. They're throwing bodies. They're getting dirty on the gravel, on the ground. There is blood coming out of everywhere. I guess they're using the fake blood in their hands, hidden, whatever, in their mouth. Blown away, Jeff. I couldn't believe what I was watching when it was over. I didn't know when to start clapping because I was like, literally shell-shocked by that.

[15:32] Richie Grasso: Blown away is an understatement because when you look at this, I'm going to say that is one of the best choreographed things I have ever seen on a Broadway stage. The rumble was everything. People should be running to get tickets to see this just for that. The rumble itself is iconic. It's known to be iconic. Yeah. Is it a terrible thing that these kids are basically fighting for their lives in here because there's so much hate in between the two, the rich kids and the poor kids? Yeah. But guess what? When you are directing something like that, and you are choreographing something like that, hello, that is hard. And these kids are doing this in rain, on gravel, and the lighting, the effect it is giving with this rumble, it is something like I have never seen.

[16:27] Jeff Malone: And I also need to say, when you have iconic big dream ballets or fight scenes, I'll use Leonard Bernstein and Stephen Sondheim in West Side Story. They orchestrated during the fight scenes. There is a time and place for that, and that is brilliant in and of its own way. But when you're watching a fight scene, I don't know if you realize this, at one point in The Outsiders, when they're all fighting in the rain, there was no orchestration. And you heard the pouring of the rain, and you heard vocal inflection, as if I was standing watching a fight outside, I would only hear the rain and the jolts of vocal and the punching and the rough play. That made me, in the best way, so uncomfortable. I sat as an audience member and felt, oh my gosh, I'm watching these people fight.

I'm so uncomfortable right now. I want to help them. Because of the removal of orchestration, which I very rarely say, which is why I said there's a time and place for a West Side Story orchestral in a fight scene, this was totally not needed for the orchestral, and it worked so hauntingly well. So hauntingly. Haunting.

[17:41] Richie Grasso: And some of the best directorial moments in there, when Johnny Cade is coming in, and he's not really there, and I'm sure you're thinking to yourself, is he there? Is he not there? Is he there? They're fighting for him, that's their brother, and it brings that whole ghostly effect in there. It was just like, bring him in, fight, he becomes part of the choreo, and then they win, and then they go back, and you're like, oh, he was never there. And that Ponyboy did it for him.

[18:18] Jeff Malone: I will also say, in terms of some characters, well, let's talk about Ponyboy. We have Brody Grant here, who is just a star, and should be Tony nominated for this. I hope he's a Tony nominated for this. He's carrying a lot of that show. I thought him and his relationship with his brothers was wonderful. Do you know how corny, cheesy some of those book scenes could have been? It could have been, oh brother, we love you. It could have been, and it wasn't. Everything felt so genuine here. I felt for these three brothers with no parents, struggling to survive in this difficult world. I felt for them. I felt for everyone. Really. You really do feel for all of them. Oddly and weirdly enough, you feel for some of the rich kids.

You kind of go over there and you say, listen, a lot of them are working up on that stage. Not that you feel bad for them as characters, because you don't. No, not like that. They make you believe who they are, and you're like, whoa. I was reading in this playbill, and it's like, Broadway debut, after Broadway debut, after Broadway debut, after Broadway debut, hello, this is the future of our Broadway right here, that we're seeing up on that stage. They are killing it. Along with Joshua Boone really stood out to me, Sky Lakota Lynch, there were some really wonderful standouts in general.

[19:39] Richie Grasso: I will also say, when you watch, I hate to bring up West Side Story, but I think it's appropriate. Well, it's the biggest thing you can compare a show like this to. When you see West Side Story and you see, other than Doc, the shop owner, you never really see older adult characters, and you're relying on the youth. This is a youth of America story, West Side Story. You don't really see, yeah, you see the cop, yeah, you see the doc. In this, there was no older adult characters. It was almost as if we were in this utopian society where nobody over the age of 25 existed, and everybody in their late teens and early 20s were running the world. Kind of how you felt, and the absence of older, and I'm not trying to be ageist, but the absence of older characters and older actors allowed these young people to tell their story in that way.

Sometimes when you see high school theater or college theater, it's usually only young people on stage, but playing older characters. This was young people playing young characters telling their story, and it was very impressive.

[20:41] Jeff Malone: Yeah. Adults are not needed in a piece like this because, first of all, period. Late 60s, early 70s, parents were very absent from their kids' lives, especially high school kids. Those were basically adults during that time. Half of them go off to war in a few years, being their age. I love the big thing that you see with any adult is it's either shadows, or you hear them. You don't actually ever see them, but that Daryl, the older brother, has become the fatherly figure, but also, is it Dallas?

[21:24] Richie Grasso: Yes.

[21:25] Jeff Malone: Dallas is also the fatherly figure of these boys. Daryl and Soda Pop are the brothers, right? And Dallas is the older brother.

[21:35] Richie Grasso: Right. So when you have Dallas and Daryl, those are the father figures to all of those boys. And what's interesting is when you look at the other side, Bob is the father, the ringleader of those boys, and Cherry. So those two are the top of the food chain when it comes to their friends. Those are the people that you see. That's what's happening, and it's just cool to see that.

[22:05] Jeff Malone: I also feel like there were times on stage where no one was afraid. No, if someone just jumped from the third step of the ladder instead of the second set, if someone bumped into someone. But that could totally come across as messy on stage. Like, oh, they're just kind of all over the place. And everything was still so stylized and very properly done that you feel like, oh, you're on that rollercoaster with them at the very, very end. And kind of going into a little bit of our experience of the show.

[22:36] Richie Grasso: We'll be right back.

[22:41] Jeff Malone: Let's jump back into things. First of all, packed audience.

[22:46] Richie Grasso: Packed.

[22:47] Jeff Malone: Not a seat to be had. And what a mix of commercial tourism, but local New Yorkers, a mix of everything. When you see that in the energy of the audience, but at the end, there was a dinner table scene at the end, and there was some food on stage, and they were really eating the food. So at the end, when they bow and we're leaving, a few of the leads went over and finished eating the food before they walked to their dressing room. It was almost like, oh, we can eat now. We haven't eaten for two. It was just that feeling of like, oh, these are human beings up there working so hard. And I will say, speaking of the end, I did cry. I really felt for these people. I can't say some of the other shows we've seen, La Pica, Water for Elephants, Notebook, I haven't really felt to the point of, oh my gosh, I'm going to cry.

I just haven't felt that. I felt that in plenty of other shows I've seen. But this is one of the first shows this season where I had such feeling for these people that I felt I wanted to go up there and hug everyone and be like, I'm so sorry you're going through this.

[23:47] Jeff Malone: Well, I really feel like that comes down to casting. They really, really knew how to cast this show. They cast people that no one knows, really. And because of that, you're building a new connection with these actors and you're saying, okay, this is amazing. You would have thought they almost came straight out of Oklahoma, you know, Tulsa. And with that, looking around the audience, this show has been the fastest show, I think, to find its audience on Broadway this year. I think every preview has been sold out, I think so. And with looking at that, I'm saying, I'm looking around and there's two things definitely going on. You're going to either love this show or you're going to hate it. I don't think there's really an in-between.

Many people I could definitely feel like loved it. Others, you know, I'm looking around, I'm like, yeah, they definitely were like, whatever. Maybe they're too old for it or it's just not really gelling with them. Or some people just feel like they're, everyone's in a different place in their life. It has nothing to do necessarily with age or with theater background or not. So some people gel with it. That's just what I saw.

[25:01] Richie Grasso: I'm going to say something here. We talk about marketing a lot on this podcast and what the marketing companies are doing for this show. Everyone needs to take note on what this show is doing in terms of marketing because it is the fastest reason why they are selling out this show. They have made people fall in love with those boys onstage and offstage. They're kind of like the new boy band, I think, in terms of like, they're doing the TikTok dances. They're doing Instagram. They're also showing themselves in the roots of where the story takes place. They have connected with the writer of the book. And they're doing nothing wrong from that. And I look at that and I say, sometimes we look at this marketing in these Broadway shows and it's just like, come see our show.

Guess what? No one's going to go if that's how you're going to treat this because it looks like no one cares. This one, I love every single one of those boys up on the stage and you feel like you're part of that outsider's pack.

[26:16] Jeff Malone: Yeah. Yeah. There's a feeling of a rooted emotion and following them and wanting to be on the journey with them. Yeah. And the biggest thing that I would say is in that room, at the end of it, you should be saying to yourself, would I go back to this show? And I think this is the first show this season I'm saying I would go back in a heartbeat.

[26:28] Richie Grasso: Oh, yeah. I would go right back. Like maybe five more times. Yeah. Yeah. It was so good. You know, and I think many people in there are saying the same thing. I've already seen people on social say this is my third time seeing it. It's in previews, everyone. So let's see. This is going to be the hard ticket to get.

[26:50] Jeff Malone: Yeah. And I think it's going to do well with the Tony Awards. I really do. I really hope for it. Yeah, sure. So. Oh, my gosh. Well, we're getting ready to wrap up your final thoughts on The Outsiders on Broadway. Jeff, go.

[27:01] Richie Grasso: Yeah. Literally run. Don't walk to see this show. It's going to be the hard ticket. It's going to do really well. The show is really thought out and takes everything about the outsiders that you know and love and puts it into a musical thought out in a different way. Totally. And I will say one of the better things I've seen this season, I was gripped and brought on into the journey from the start. Tanya Tamor's direction is stunning. And it's I would have never thought this was based on a movie and a book because I just found it to be a really cool, original, great show. And I loved every second of it. And I love that you loved it because I was very nervous for you going into the show because I was like, oh, he's going to hate everything about the folky kind of music that, you know, the young coming of age story.

And it's like it did the complete opposite to everyone. I turned to him at intermission and his face was like, I love everything about that. Every second of it. I was blown away by every second of it.

[27:59] Jeff Malone: For sure. Well, that does wrap up our discussion on today's episode. We hope you enjoyed our deep dive into The Outsiders on Broadway. We will share the link with ticket information in our description here as well. And don't forget, we want to hear from you. Continue the conversation with us on Instagram and TikTok at half hour podcast and let us know your thoughts on The Outsiders. If you enjoyed our show, please leave us a review. Your feedback helps us bring more theater to you. Remember, you can listen to our past episodes and stay tuned for upcoming ones as well. Until next time, I'm Jeff and I'm Richie saying tata for now. Bye.