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[0:06] Rich Hawkins: Hello, welcome to episode four of I Can Sing.

[0:10] Rich Hawkins: We are gonna talk about Mamma Mia, but first of all, we have a very important thing to talk about because we are joined by our first Joseph.

[0:19] Rich Hawkins: Allow me to introduce second runner up, but did end up doing Joseph. So technically, you know, just a big fat winner. Welcome, welcome Lewis Bradley.

[0:27] Rich Hawkins: Hi Lewis.

[0:30] Lewis Bradley: Hey, how are you doing?

[0:31] Rich Hawkins: I'm good, how are you?

[0:32] Lewis Bradley: I'm good, I'm good.

[0:34] Rich Hawkins: You are my first Joseph.

[0:36] Lewis Bradley: Very exciting.

[0:37] Rich Hawkins: Do you have others lined up?

[0:38] Lewis Bradley: I have a maybe lined up. That's a real deep tease for future episodes for anyone who wants to figure out who it is.

[0:44] Rich Hawkins: Looking back on that show, now you're watching Mamma Mia. What are your how are you feeling about looking back on Joseph? Like what are your core memories of that time? Is it good times? Is it bad times? How'd you feel about that show 17 years later?

[0:55] Lewis Bradley: Oh my gosh. Well, first of all, I know none of us look old enough to even know that that happened. I wasn't even born 17 years ago, which is a whole lifetime ago. Uh and then there's parts of me that's still exactly the same, and then there's other parts of me that's like, ah, funny it did happen now at the age of 34. Um, but majority of my feelings that I would say from that was just sheer excitement and I was fulfilling my dream and my goal. You know, I moved to London from the northeast of England at 13 to do that. So I was very tunnel vision of what exactly I wanted to do, and so that I was just ambitious and I had my goal and I was doing it and that was it. So it was just it ticked all my boxes, you know. So it was and that and what was the best way to do it was by doing that, you know.

[2:04] Rich Hawkins: And you were what were you, 16, 17?

[2:08] Lewis Bradley: I turned 18 the final week. So throughout the whole competition, which I believe started in February or April, I was 17. Um, and then by June the 5th, which was the final, uh the week of the finals, I was in Majorca at Andrew Lloyd Webber's, sorry, Lord Andrew Lloyd Webber's house. Show some respect.

[2:31] Rich Hawkins: Well, if you get that title, I think it's deserved to be used, isn't it?

[2:36] Lewis Bradley: So yeah, I was there for my 18th birthday.

[2:39] Rich Hawkins: That is so much pressure at such a young age to suddenly be on like national television doing something you really want to do, but like the stakes are quite high.

[2:47] Lewis Bradley: Hey, you know what though? Uh it wasn't like today with social media. If you wanted to know what people were thinking or gossiping or trolling about, you had to go into the forums to find out. So I never did. Uh there was a few little things that came up that could potentially have been in the press or whatever that the BBC spoke to me about, but I have to say the BBC looked after us very well at a gentleman called Michael Canning. Shout out to Michael, he was our Joseph liaison, and he made sure everything ran smoothly for us, that we were all well looked after, and I have to say it was a fantastic experience.

[3:27] Rich Hawkins: Is it weird looking back at yourself at the age of 17?

[3:30] Lewis Bradley: I don't have any video of myself at 17, and I'm quite glad, I think. I mean, now it's fine. It's taken many, many years to get to this stage to be able to sit back and watch and think, Yeah, go on, Lewis. You know, killing it up there, 17. Bless you. That's what I literally have just watched it as a recap for this. So I was just like, that's what my thoughts were oh look at me, yeah. Adorable. Good for you.

[4:01] Lewis Bradley: Good for you, that's what I was thinking. Um, but as I say, it's taken many years. We're talking 17 years. There was a time for a long time I couldn't even speak about the fact that I'd been on Any Dream Will Do, or the fact that I played Joseph. I just I was so paranoid about being arrogant because I'd seen some of some people turn into that character, and I was like, oh, that is so unattractive. That's not me. I'm very honest, but I'm not arrogant. Um and yeah, so I was very wary of that, and I think perhaps too much instead I stopped myself to allow myself to be proud. And but obviously at 17 to 34 is a huge growing spur of life and everything involved.

[4:56] Rich Hawkins: Yeah, for sure. To reflect differently now to what I did to say 10 years ago.

[5:01] Lewis Bradley: Um, so you moved to London when you were 13 to do musical theatre.

[5:06] Lewis Bradley: Yes, I went to Italia Conte in uh central London.

[5:10] Rich Hawkins: Intense.

[5:11] Lewis Bradley: Yeah. Uh no, it was some of the best days in my life. Do you want to go to London and sing and dance instead of doing this school and where you're getting bullied all the time? And yeah, okay, let's go.

[5:22] Rich Hawkins: Um, what was the audition process then? Going into uh Any Dream Will Do? Like, how did that all come about for you?

[5:27] Lewis Bradley: It was at the King's Hotel, I believe, in uh uh no, I think I saw it advertised on the television. And then I just went for it. Like at the time I was a bit bored of college. I'd been there for five years at this point from the school, then transitioned into the college part, and I was like, no, I want to be out there now, you know. I was hungry. So I was always going to boy band auditions and things like that. So I was always looking out for auditions, and I believe I saw it advertised on the television. I went along, took my nana.

[5:57] Rich Hawkins: I love that you took your nana. That's very sweet.

[5:59] Lewis Bradley: Well, my nan was the person who started me off dancing when I was four. She's the one who took me to the theatre, you know. I mean, everybody has their stories about their nano or the grand or whatever on the television now, don't they? But I was one of the originals.

[6:16] Lewis Bradley: Your nana was one of the originals, really.

[6:18] Lewis Bradley: Yeah, my nan, actually, yeah, that's very true. My nan was one of the originals. She became a little bit of a celebrity in her own right from the television show, which was super cute.

[6:27] Rich Hawkins: Love the original ally, Nana.

[6:30] Lewis Bradley: Yeah.

[6:31] Rich Hawkins: So cute. Did you audition for any boy bands that became famous?

[6:34] Lewis Bradley: No, thankfully not. Um a boy band I did was called Vigo, and they did nothing, so that's good.

[6:41] Rich Hawkins: So I have to talk about the TV show. At the time, do it what were your feelings about the way that it was being put together? Like, how are you feeling about having a jacket with no shirt on and uh a lord as he was on a uh throne? Like, did it feel theatrical and camp?

[6:59] Lewis Bradley: Well, of course it felt theatrical and camp. I mean, we're doing theatre, it is theatrical and camp. Um I don't believe that we were analyzing the fact that Andrew Lloyd Webber was sitting on a throne and we were the you know peasants wearing our cut jackets, getting them stripped off and just wearing a vest, you know. I mean that's just that just made good TV, you know. I don't think we overanalyzed it in any kind of way. It was more of like, okay, so what's the job in hand that we need to do to make sure we don't get this coat ripped off and to make sure that we get Andrew Lloyd Webber to be one of our fans, you know what I mean? It's his show at the end of the day.

[7:40] Rich Hawkins: And without him, we ain't gonna get it.

[7:42] Lewis Bradley: So he was a fan of yours. You were top three, right?

[7:45] Lewis Bradley: Yeah, I came third. Made it to the finals, and then from the final three, uh that night, the winner was decided. Lay made. Honestly, honestly, I definitely believe it was the right choice. Um I I kind of felt at the time that he was going to win anyway. Um, I just actually watched the duet that Lee and I did, Oh What a Circus. And he's ten years older than I am, and and I thought I did pretty well to get as far as I did, you know. I didn't have the Scottish vote, which I know the Scottish people are very uh patriotic when they have one of their own on the television show. So I think I did pretty well to come finish where I finished. And as you mentioned at the beginning, I got to play the part anyway.

[8:33] Rich Hawkins: Yeah, yeah. Without winning the show, and without the stress of or the pressure of that, so I won in my own little right, you know. All the top three did it right in the end.

[8:44] Lewis Bradley: Is that true?

[8:45] Rich Hawkins: No.

[8:46] Lewis Bradley: Lee and I were the only ones to do the original West End production at the Adelphi Theatre, which was what the whole television program was about. Of course, you had the Bill Kenwright touring version, which was a much lower production value. And I think every of the contestants played Joseph in that show.

[9:09] Rich Hawkins: Yeah.

[9:10] Lewis Bradley: If I'm honest with you.

[9:12] Rich Hawkins: But I have to ask you about something. Do you remember that time when that I think his name was I want to say his I can't remember his name, maybe Seamus. I might be wrong. And he got eliminated. And he got eliminated and he went rogue. Whenever I've told anybody that I'm gonna talk to a Joseph, that's the thing. They're like, oh my god, remember when that guy ended up singing, I will have a show of my own. What was that like at the moment?

[9:47] Lewis Bradley: I mean, of course it was a bit shocking, but at the same time, I was so in my own brain thinking about okay, that's one more gone out, perfect, who's next? You know, that was my mindset. I I wasn't really bothered what Seamus was doing. Um a lovely guy, may I add. I'm sure.

[10:06] Lewis Bradley: Uh very nice guy, but I think that they there was a little thing going on there that they tried. He kind of added fire to the fuel, I think sometimes, uh, which portrayed him in an arrogant way or some kind of way that he actually genuinely wasn't. He was a nice guy. Um, but yeah, I mean, he was obviously pissed that he got voted off.

[10:27] Lewis Bradley: I love it. And he wanted a show of his own. He wants a show of his own, and look, we all do. So I'm with you, Seamus, shameless babe. Like I'm with you.

[10:35] Rich Hawkins: Um, okay. Shall we talk about Mamma Mia I Have a Dream?

[10:39] Rich Hawkins: So we are week four, we have had a Sophie week and a Sky week previously, and so this week we're going in. Oh, what's gonna happen? Is it Sophie? Is it Sky? Is it what is it? What is it? Who knows? But we actually open with a group performance, as is now the tradition of the show.

[10:56] Rich Hawkins: Take a chance on me. It's big, it's a lot of shimmying, it's a lot of acting. I got a little bit confused with who's a contestant and who's a waiter at one point. They were my only notes. Any thoughts on Take a Chance on Me?

[11:09] Lewis Bradley: Well, I'm sorry, but and I, you know, nothing that I say I want anybody to be offended by or anything like that, you know.

[11:17] Rich Hawkins: You already can't wait.

[11:18] Lewis Bradley: Everybody is grabbing this opportunity. But if you're going to put on a show that is meant to be for a live theatre, why have the contestants miming?

[11:32] Rich Hawkins: Now correct me, were they not miming?

[11:34] Lewis Bradley: Well, I mean, I don't know, I don't produce the show, who knows? That's after interpretation.

[11:39] Lewis Bradley: Well, for me, they were miming. So you've lost me straight away.

[11:44] Rich Hawkins: Oh my god, a scandal in the reality TV theatre world. Miming.

[11:49] Lewis Bradley: But yeah, as you say, also the choreography for the actual camera angles and shots, it's messy. You don't know who is the contestant, as you just said, and who is the waiter bopping in the background, you know? I think what it's lacking, it doesn't have the Saturday night television, you know, the biggest Saturday night television showcase for performers, like what X Factor was, like what Any Dream Will Do was on the BBC.

[12:19] Rich Hawkins: It just doesn't have that same feel.

[12:21] Lewis Bradley: I'm sorry, it's really lacking.

[12:23] Rich Hawkins: Do you think that's partly because it's pre-recorded, so it doesn't have that buzz of live?

[12:27] Lewis Bradley: Well, yes, of course, that will play a part of it, but I think the format of it also, you know, it doesn't know really what it is. It's a Love Island meets I don't know.

[12:39] Lewis Bradley: Celebrity karaoke, I think.

[12:41] Rich Hawkins: Not celebrity karaoke. That's such a read. Funny.

[12:50] Rich Hawkins: Um, okay, so then we get told that this week is pairs week, or as they describe it, chemistry week, and our Sophies and our Skys are going to be paired up, which makes sense because ultimately they are casting two leads. We are also losing two people this week, which we find out, and then they're paired up, seemingly at random, there's no particular reason to it. Their challenge was to redo Lay All Your Love on Me, which is actually really Sky's biggest song in the show.

[13:18] Lewis Bradley: That's kind of the only one where he has a solo moment. So that does make sense. I will say that I liked the fact that you got to see like the workshopping of the audition process, because that is what goes on in real life anyway.

[13:34] Rich Hawkins: Um, so I did like that aspect of it.

[13:37] Lewis Bradley: I do too. I like that you get to see it. And you got to see more of it this week than you have done previously. It was longer, and you see a little bit more. They're still producing a show, so they're show only showing you the bits they want you to see, and you start to, as you do with real any reality show, you can start to pick out the stories.

[13:52] Lewis Bradley: Like when they show you someone struggling, you know you're either gonna get a redemption storyline or they're gonna go home. Like you start to pick up on that. But I still like seeing the behind the scenes.

[14:01] Rich Hawkins: Um Leah says something very interesting where she says that she's gonna find it hard to have chemistry with a boy, because she says she finds it hard to feel sexy as a plus-size woman, and she's gay, so she has never, she's also very young, she's 19, I think, has never had any reason to have sort of sexual chemistry with a boy.

[14:24] Lewis Bradley: Um that's very interesting for her. I guess as an actor she's gonna have to learn that, right? But she's so young, right now she doesn't have it.

[14:32] Lewis Bradley: See, I never really spoke about things like that when I did the TV show because I didn't know who or what I was at that time when I was doing it.

[14:38] Lewis Bradley: Um if we were told to seduce Denise Van Outen right with the words the lyrics of Madonna, Crazy for You, then that's what I had to do. And I actually won that challenge actually. Sorry about it.

[14:51] Rich Hawkins: Yeah, so if I can convince Denise Van Outen, then Leah better get her act together.

[15:01] Lewis Bradley: You're an actor, darling, do it. All I want for my life now is to have a challenge where I have to seduce Denise Van Outen via a Madonna song.

[15:09] Rich Hawkins: Like if I don't achieve that by the time I die, I'm gonna be absolutely raging.

[15:13] Lewis Bradley: That sounds amazing. Ah, brilliant. I was so nervous though, and I had such a dry mouth doing it.

[15:20] Rich Hawkins: What was the criteria to win? Just literally that she picked you because you were the best one?

[15:25] Lewis Bradley: It was, I don't mean Joseph doesn't have a love story, but we had to seduce, we went to this hotel and we were in some kind of seating area, and we went in one at a time and had to act out the lyrics to Madonna's Crazy for You and Denise Van Outen chose who seduced her the best.

[15:52] Lewis Bradley: And it was me. Although she didn't marry me, she married Lee.

[15:58] Rich Hawkins: Oh yeah.

[16:00] Lewis Bradley: So I can't have been that good.

[16:02] Rich Hawkins: Wow, well, he played the long game, obviously.

[16:04] Lewis Bradley: Um, and then we go straight into the performances. So they're doing a duo, they're doing a duet.

[16:09] Rich Hawkins: Uh if you were to be singing a duet with somebody, what would you sing? What's your favourite duet song?

[16:18] Lewis Bradley: Oh, well, only because they did it, I would have done the shallow song. I thought they did a really good job of that.

[16:23] Lewis Bradley: I do Brandy and Monica.

[16:25] Rich Hawkins: But the boy is mine.

[16:27] Lewis Bradley: That's the ultimate duet song.

[16:29] Rich Hawkins: Okay, okay, okay.

[16:30] Lewis Bradley: Or maybe that one that Whitney and Mariah did for The Prince of Egypt.

[16:33] Rich Hawkins: When you believe, yeah, I would do that one.

[16:35] Rich Hawkins: Which one then, Mariah or Whitney?

[16:37] Lewis Bradley: I think I've got more of the Whitney range.

[16:41] Rich Hawkins: I think that's more my record.

[16:42] Lewis Bradley: Perfect. I can take Mariah.

[16:43] Rich Hawkins: Oh, great. Well, let's get it recorded. We'll do a charity single or something.

[16:48] Lewis Bradley: Great. Done.

[16:49] Rich Hawkins: Perfect.

[16:50] Rich Hawkins: Okay, first performance. Esme and Marcellus.

[16:53] Lewis Bradley: They do Power of Love. I was immediately let down because when we were told Power of Love, I assumed Celine Dion.

[16:58] Rich Hawkins: It was not Celine Dion.

[16:59] Lewis Bradley: No whisper. Right? That's such a, I was like, oh, we're getting a Celine moment. No, we did not get our Celine moment.

[17:05] Lewis Bradley: Um they highlight her nerves and their lack of chemistry, which again feels like storyline. Either they're gonna do really well or they're not. What did you think?

[17:14] Rich Hawkins: Um you're my favourite.

[17:18] Lewis Bradley: I feel like it's so many opinions.

[17:21] Lewis Bradley: Well, I mean, it was fine, yeah. I mean, I do feel a little bit like out of everybody it's a bit like politics, isn't it? What out of everybody in the world or everybody in the country, that's the best that you came up with.

[17:35] Lewis Bradley: But they get given songs, and I think The Power of Love's a great song. I sing it currently on my job, and the crowd love it. Just needs some grip behind it.

[17:47] Rich Hawkins: Hey, what do I know? It's just my opinion.

[17:50] Lewis Bradley: You know more than me. I can't even, I don't know anything about performing. I'm just here chatting shit about people week after week.

[17:55] Rich Hawkins: No, I thought it was good. I think it was fine.

[17:57] Lewis Bradley: The thing about this show, and it's kind of true of a lot of reality competition singing shows, is the British public generally love a ballad. So whoever's given the ballads each week tend to have the better reaction from the judges, and I do think there is a level of TV production in that.

[18:13] Rich Hawkins: Yeah, well, with a ballad, it's usually more moving, isn't it? That's what it that's what makes for good television.

[18:20] Lewis Bradley: But the Power of Love could have been just as powerful, you know. I think I still think the Celine world was the way to go.

[18:26] Lewis Bradley: Or actually Frankie Goes to Hollywood, that Christmas song would have also been great.

[18:29] Lewis Bradley: The judges think their chemistry is a lot better, she thinks Esme's a bit worried. Generally the feedback's actually fine, but this show never gives any negative critiques.

[18:37] Lewis Bradley: So her saying you looked a bit worried is very bad news for her.

[18:42] Rich Hawkins: What were the judges like on your show? Were they, were we in that era of TV where they were still willing to just say whatever they thought? Or was it kind of?

[18:48] Lewis Bradley: Um well, they were all very supportive, but each judge wanted our song to be sang or portrayed in a different way.

[19:00] Lewis Bradley: So throughout the week of rehearsals, we'd probably get a little bit of feedback from not always, but it'd be like John Barrowman wanted it sang and portrayed like this, Denise Van Outen wanted it done like that, Bill Kenwright wanted it done like that, and we'd been working on it a certain way with Zoe, and then so it'd be like, well, I'll do it this way to please you, but then all the others were annoyed, or would say that it wasn't your best, or give you some kind of negative critique.

[19:29] Lewis Bradley: So that was very difficult until in the end I was just kind of like do you know what I'm gonna do it the way I feel and forget about what you're saying and I think that's actually when I felt most confident but that was a little bit too late although it was in the final so thank God I found it there last week.

[19:44] Rich Hawkins: Once again mentioning that you were in the final because he was in the final ladies and gentlemen.

[19:48] Lewis Bradley: Well hey it's been 17 years since I've spoken about this. Let these bitches know.

[19:53] Rich Hawkins: Yeah um okay next up we have Craig and Maisie they do the other one that I want what did you think?

[20:01] Lewis Bradley: Oh I mean that was just car crash I'm sorry it was just a real cheap performance of Grease and Grease is cheesy and tacky on its own.

[20:17] Lewis Bradley: So I don't, I don't know I, I don't, I didn't wasn't sure what they were doing with that. Were they gonna do a Grease properly or are they just, I don't know, was it a little school play production?

[20:28] Lewis Bradley: I don't, I was confused. I thought um she's proven to us in previous weeks that she's got an amazing voice but she has no acting experience and in this performance suddenly you see that like she's not acting like Sandy.

[20:41] Lewis Bradley: She just, she's just a great singer of ballads and things but like she didn't give Sandy and his big electric moment electrifying moment was just a bit off.

[20:53] Lewis Bradley: I don't know. There's the whole thing was a bit, I think it's hard to do Grease. If doing Grease on stage or whatever great doing Grease out of context, because it's done so much, it's played at every school disco, it's done at karaoke a lot.

[21:04] Lewis Bradley: I think it's very hard to elevate. They were dressed up as Sandy and Danny, so that's not out of context.

[21:11] Lewis Bradley: And they had the T-Birds and the Pink Ladies behind them. It was already there for them to go.

[21:17] Lewis Bradley: That is true. It just felt a bit, I don't know, it didn't feel polished like I would expect from two people trying to get apart on the Western stage. It felt a bit Amram, maybe. Is that unkind?

[21:28] Rich Hawkins: Yes.

[21:28] Lewis Bradley: That's a no that that's a good way of describing it. Again, no offense to anybody personally, for goodness sake.

[21:35] Rich Hawkins: Absolutely not.

[21:36] Lewis Bradley: Um, the judges felt like they didn't go far enough and were just generally underwhelmed, and again, for this show, that's really bad. I mean, the critique was still fairly positive, but that's pretty bad for this show.

[21:48] Rich Hawkins: Well, underwhelmed, I think is a very good description of it. Next up we had Desmonda and Toby. They did "Love is an Open Door" from Frozen.

[21:58] Lewis Bradley: He's really good.

[21:58] Rich Hawkins: He's very good, isn't he?

[22:01] Lewis Bradley: Yeah, he's good. I don't really know this song that well. I'm not really a Disney or don't mind Disney.

[22:05] Rich Hawkins: Oh, I know the song, it's cute, and they did a nice job, but the choreography again, what is going on with that?

[22:15] Lewis Bradley: It felt like, um, that's not their fault.

[22:18] Rich Hawkins: No, it's not their fault, and because the house, it's chemistry week, everyone else is being briefed to like do you have sort of sexual chemistry? Is there like a sizzle between you? And their choreography felt very childish, like not like the most I know Frozen is a they are children in Frozen, but it didn't feel as grown up as everybody else's.

[22:47] Lewis Bradley: It was literally like "Love is an Open Door," so they would do it love, and then they would open a door. It's like, no, come on. Like a kid's show, like when you entertain children like that.

[22:57] Rich Hawkins: Yes.

[22:58] Lewis Bradley: Um, but I thought they sounded, but no, their performances and sounded, they were good.

[23:03] Rich Hawkins: They were good. I think she's probably the best singer in this competition from the girls.

[23:07] Lewis Bradley: Right. I think at this point, she's proven it. And I thought Toby this week sounded amazing. So I was like, okay, this is a great performance. Good for them. Then we had Sakil and Leah, who did "All for You."

[23:20] Rich Hawkins: This was, I think it sounded very, I think their voices were very nice. Her voice felt very strong. I don't know this song very well, except that it was trending on TikTok a while ago.

[23:32] Lewis Bradley: Um, they felt very separate for chemistry week. I know that was the narrative they were telling, they're at separate tables and stuff, but there was a lot of like backs to each other.

[23:41] Rich Hawkins: Um, there wasn't a lot of performing together. Again, again, that's the choreography, and if that let them down, but I do have to say, and as you mentioned earlier, that Leah is it, um, that she was worried about having a chemistry with a guy.

[24:02] Lewis Bradley: I thought she portrayed it perfectly well, you know, when they came to the center and met for that very brief moment. I thought that she held her absolute own and the chemistry was nice between the two.

[24:14] Rich Hawkins: I do too. I thought it was very nice. But again, the choreography let them down.

[24:18] Lewis Bradley: Well, you were looking for chemistry week, but you were gonna be on that side of the stage and you were gonna be on that side of the stage. I thought they'd come together quicker, like they were separate, and I got what they were doing, but I thought they would come together, but they were separate for so long that the chemistry, it's hard to measure their chemistry versus other people's in quite the same way.

[24:35] Rich Hawkins: I felt that though maybe that was a bit unfair. But the judges loved it, they loved it. Um, they loved it, they loved her voice. They said his voice feels a bit weaker, which I could see that maybe, but I think he sounded great.

[24:50] Lewis Bradley: Well, maybe it was just the song choice, you know, and that stands counts for a lot. I still thought I really enjoyed them. I mean, at this point I'm like a dead horse because I love Leah so much. Although I just want Leah to do Sophie, I think she'd be such a cool, interesting choice for that role, and I think that would be great.

[25:08] Rich Hawkins: Next up we had Callum and Stephanie, and they did "Rewrite the Stars" from The Greatest Showman. Now, this, as I was saying earlier about the British public loving a ballad, this is the sort of song that on a reality competition show, this is the sort of song British people like. It's that it's on Magic FM all the time.

[25:23] Lewis Bradley: Well, it's big when it's done well.

[25:28] Rich Hawkins: Oh yeah. And for me, it was not good. She sounded nice, and the judges commented saying that it was good, her vocals, but the staging, the camera angles, it was all over the place, and he was pretty weak.

[25:46] Lewis Bradley: He was really out with that with the first thing anybody says when he starts singing, it cuts to Jesse Ware saying, "Oh, he's out of tune," and it sort of sets the stage for the whole performance, but he just doesn't quite, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[25:59] Rich Hawkins: And then the judges bring up something they've mentioned before, which is that he's not, he said he confesses himself he doesn't love musical theatre, it's not his background. Um, and they've brought this up two weeks in a row and they criticize him for not being a massive musical theatre fan.

[26:14] Lewis Bradley: So, the question is, do you think to be a West End lead or work in the theatre in any format, do you think you have to be passionate about musical theatre?

[26:25] Rich Hawkins: Um, hey, I have worked in musical theatre for many years. Doesn't mean to say that I go home and listen to musical theatre on my Spotify. You know, it's a job, and you are allowed your personal life to be something different, other than that. I think it's a very healthy situation and relationship with it.

[26:46] Lewis Bradley: I agree. So I think it's totally irrelevant. Obviously, you have to have a certain amount of interest to do your homework, to do your knowledge of the craft of the skill. So there has to be a certain amount of interest, but it doesn't mean to say you have to eat, sleep, and breathe it.

[27:06] Rich Hawkins: I agree, and I also think that theatre, lots of people do theatre. Lots of people go into theatre shows having done a lot of TV beforehand, or pop stars do it sometimes or whatever, and that seems to be allowed. So the fact that he doesn't have a background in musical theatre, I don't know. He's if it, I mean he didn't give a great performance, but had he given a great performance and you felt like he would be a good Sky, why does it matter if he really wants to listen to Le Miz when he gets home? Like this criticism feels a bit unfair to me anyway.

[27:37] Lewis Bradley: Well, by the sounds of it, they're just trying to make a point of something that's totally irrelevant because maybe there's nothing else going on, you know.

[27:44] Rich Hawkins: Um, I don't know.

[27:47] Lewis Bradley: Yeah, that's fair. Um, and then our final performance, Stevie and Owen do "Shallow." Um, another very popular song with the British public that it feels like if you get this right, people love it. There's like a bunch of these big ballads. Um, what did you think?

[28:05] Rich Hawkins: Well, for me, they are Skye and Sophie. For me, I just felt like her performance was polished as well. And it's a quite, it's a big acting role, Sophie.

[28:19] Lewis Bradley: Um, so I would like to see her.

[28:24] Rich Hawkins: Stevie, yeah.

[28:26] Lewis Bradley: Yes, Stevie is Sophie for me.

[28:30] Rich Hawkins: Interesting.

[28:30] Lewis Bradley: Stevie and I can see that. I think they sounded amazing. They sort of clung to each other a bit too much for me. It felt like a bit like Rose and Jack on the Titanic. Like, alright, let each other go a bit.

[28:39] Rich Hawkins: Um, but I like that before.

[28:42] Lewis Bradley: Yeah, but again, that's not their fault if they're being told to do that. I mean, the staging again, terrible. They got when she's singing you face forward and these face the back, and then when you when the other one sings, turn around and do that. I don't know, it just was a bit naff again, the staging choreography.

[29:00] Rich Hawkins: Um, hopefully I'll never have to work with that.

[29:02] Lewis Bradley: I was gonna say, I feel like this choreographer's gonna hate you.

[29:07] Rich Hawkins: But yeah, those two, those two had the best performance, definitely.

[29:13] Lewis Bradley: I agree. I believed what they were saying, and that's so important. This is obviously when you were mentioning about making ABBA cheesy or whatever, to the I guess the difference of too much cheese and telling the story. That's the difference, and I felt like that's what she did and has the ability to do that with an ABBA song to tell the story.

[29:34] Rich Hawkins: Yeah, yeah, it was really good. The judges love it, they eat it up. Uh, Samantha Barks says she had this song at her wedding, which is very camp, and I support that.

[29:43] Lewis Bradley: Um, yes, very good, very good, everyone. And that's it. Turns out we're getting a bottom two. We've never had that before. Normally it's just someone goes home. They decide, it starts to piss it down with rain, which is kind of funny. And then the bottom two are Zakil and Callum, Maisie and Esme.

[29:58] Rich Hawkins: I wrote immediately wrote down before they announced this, that's gonna be the bottom four. From the critiques from the performances, they felt like the weakest ones.

[30:06] Lewis Bradley: Yes.

[30:06] Rich Hawkins: Um, did you agree?

[30:08] Lewis Bradley: Definitely.

[30:10] Rich Hawkins: Definitely.

[30:12] Lewis Bradley: Yeah, and then Maisie and Callum go home. And again, I was like, yeah, that feels like it could have been any pairing out of those.

[30:23] Rich Hawkins: So I don't wouldn't say that anyone was particularly weaker than the other. They were all pretty, uh, the same standard, I think.

[30:31] Lewis Bradley: I do wish that we'd had some sort of sing-off or something just to...

[30:31] Rich Hawkins: Yeah, definitely. Well, that gives as a viewer, that's what you want. That's what you want to see these people, because then they might have really excelled in the sing-off. You know, people react in certain ways under pressure, so that would have made great TV.

[30:47] Lewis Bradley: So I don't know why they don't do that.

[30:50] Rich Hawkins: I know, and also it's just you get that one performance, it's a duet. Like maybe it wasn't the right song for them, maybe it wasn't, as you said, the staging or whatever. Like, you can't, I'd love to have just a more stripped-down thing where they get to make all their own choices and see what's the raw material underneath all of that and who's got the fight.

[31:06] Lewis Bradley: I felt like that would give us a bit more. Um, but we don't get it, and they go home and it fades to black, and that's the end of Mamma Mia! I Have a Dream episode four.

[31:15] Rich Hawkins: Cool. Well, thank you so much for joining me. Um, before I go, where can people find you? Where can they follow you, etc.?

[31:21] Lewis Bradley: Um, on Instagram. I'm Lewis Bradley, I believe, I think that's what it is. But other than that, don't follow me anywhere else. Leave me alone.

[31:33] Rich Hawkins: Fine. Don't be, don't nobody follow Lewis.

[31:36] Lewis Bradley: That's where I'm going with the advice.

[31:40] Rich Hawkins: Um, thank you so much for joining me, Lewis. If anyone wants to follow me, I am the boldest bitch on TikTok. Otherwise, I will see everybody next week for episode five.