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[0:02] Devario D. Simmons: Hello and welcome to Into Costume, a podcast in support of the Costume Industry Coalition.

[0:09] Devario D. Simmons: Each episode, I chat with costume industry insiders about the intricate process of creating iconic looks for stage or screen.

[0:17] Devario D. Simmons: My name is Devario D. Simmons, and I am a costume designer, educator, and host. Thank you for joining us today.

[0:30] Devario D. Simmons: This week on Into Costume, we have Lori Kaplan, the owner of Bra Tenders. Hey, Lori, so good to meet you. I've been in your shop so many times. And for our listeners, I would like for you to tell them what the name of your business is.

[0:47] Lori Kaplan: My business is called Bra Tenders, and our tagline is the uplifting experience.

[1:01] Lori Kaplan: Everything. We do, besides supporting the entertainment industry, Broadway, film, and television, we do custom bra fittings in our shop, and we help women find their proper bra size because nobody knows. And we really, we changed their lives. We had a young woman in here today. She said, I've never had a strapless bra, and it's my graduation. I really want to buy the strapless dress, but I can't find a bra that fits me. And she came into my fitting room. I looked at her, I said, give me a minute. I went to get a bra, I put it on her, it was perfect, and she was absolutely shocked that it was the first time in her life. Not only did she have a bra that fit her properly, but a strapless bra that fit her and held her up. So amazing.

[1:44] Devario D. Simmons: So, Lori, on your website, it says that you have a PhD in underwear. Um, what how did you even start this business or where did the idea come from?

[1:55] Lori Kaplan: When I was a much younger woman in my twenties, having dropped out of school and cut all my secretarial classes in high school, I didn't really have any job skills. So I got a job at a retail schlock store in the Rockefeller Center area. And because of the proximity to the theater district, a lot of people that work for Broadway and Radio City would stop by looking for things that they needed. And the guy that I worked for pretty much like was a big box store, he sold irregulars and closeouts and discontinued items for cheap. But when Alice Gilbert was working on A Chorus Line, she said, I'm gonna need like 10 dozen sheer to the waist support hose every week. Can you get them? I made it my point.

I heard cash register ringing, and I made it my point to go find the kind of items that everybody was looking for. And I was with that guy for over 20 years and discovered that I just had this natural ability to look at women and know what their bra size was without measuring. I guess I had an affinity for it because I had big breasts by the time I was a 14-year-old girl already, and couldn't find underwear that didn't look like my grandmother's bras. So when I got to work in a bra shop, you know, it's like, wow, there's pretty things that come in my size. I started to buy more of that, and words spread around the theater community. It's like, hey, she has sheer to the waist support hose. And guess what?

They get bras in 32 and 34 D, you know, it's like that was a big deal back in those days. After not getting my piece of the business, as that man kept promising, I left him and I started my own company. And within six months, he was out of business. So now this is Bra Tenders, has been around since 1999. So I guess 21 years for us. But altogether I have 44 years in this business.

[3:56] Devario D. Simmons: Congratulations.

[3:58] Lori Kaplan: And that's why I earned my PhD in underwear.

[4:01] Devario D. Simmons: All hands on experimental. What are the different types of underwear that we can find at Bra Tenders when we walk in?

[4:09] Lori Kaplan: Oh my God, pretty much anything that touches skin for men, women, and sometimes children. So besides bras, we sell boustiers and shapewear, all kinds of hosiery from stockings that go with garter belts, you know, like from the 1930s, 40s, 50s period looks. We have men's underwear. We do a line of men's modesty wear. So little pouches, you know, for love scenes and nude scenes when the performer should look naked but not actually be naked. We created 20 years ago a line of modesty wear. So we do two or three nude shades in boxer briefs and trunks and thongs, guy strings, little self-contained pouches. Sometimes they call them bananas, sometimes they call them other things.

[5:02] Devario D. Simmons: So how do you, because underwear is so personal to everyone. Everyone has a certain way they want it to fit and what they like and what they don't like. I think everyone possibly has their favorite bra if you wear bras or a favorite pair of underwear. How do you make people feel comfortable when they come into your shop?

[5:22] Lori Kaplan: Well, I think they're coming motivated. We have a reputation that precedes us, but a lot of our private customers come from bridal salons. So they're coming for undergarments for their wedding dress, but they've never been properly fit for a bra. So once they see how the correct size can change the way they look, then they'll say, okay, show me something in my size. You know, we're not about the hard sell. We're here to help people fulfill some need that they have. And for women, a bra is a basic wardrobe item, especially if you're heavy busted and full busted, you need to wear that sucker every single day. But for a lot of women who've never had the proper fit or the proper size, it's a really miserable experience.

And you know, I'll cubits with women. It's like, so when you get home at the end of the day, what's the first thing that comes off, your bra or your shoes? And it's like, huh, you know, that's a tough one. But women feel relaxed and they trust us. And that's no small thing in this world to have somebody say, I trust you. Just give me what you think I need. And it's usually right.

[6:31] Devario D. Simmons: What is like one of the common misconceptions about underwear that a lot of people have when they come in and they come to your shop, maybe they're like, Oh, I don't like anything, nothing ever fits me. I'm sure that you are able to help them with that. What are some of those common things that you deal with?

[6:49] Lori Kaplan: We specialize in women that have very big breasts. So we carry 81 bra sizes here. And a lot of those are women that wear band sizes and bras like 30 or 32, but are F and G cups. And most women don't even know that you can get a size like a 32G because you can't find them in Macy's, you know. And if you go to Macy's, today they're working in the bra department. Yesterday they were selling shoes, and the day before that they were selling crystal. They don't know how to fit. But the biggest mistake women make is buying a bra that has the band size too big, and that would be the number 32, 34, 36, when what they really need is a bigger cup. We really, we're problem solvers and we provide solutions for women's wardrobe needs the same way we do for costume designers and wardrobe personnel.

[7:37] Devario D. Simmons: Are all of the bras that you have, are they already made, or do you do custom bras or like what are the type of services that I can see at Bra Tenders?

[7:46] Lori Kaplan: Okay, well, our specialty is bra fitting. We do not custom make. People are under the impression they need to have bras custom made when they have 36H, but there are lots of products off the shelf. One of the problems that women have is that the size, there's no universal sizing. So double D might be an E, might be something else. We know how all the sizes run within each brand and how every style within that brand fits, because even though they're the same size, every style fits differently. So it's really our experience and expertise that allows us to make the process painless for the customer. They don't have to figure out the sizing. We put them in the fitting room, they get naked, and then we just bring them what we think will work.

[8:34] Devario D. Simmons: Without giving away your secrets, of course, like how do you begin to find those vendors that have those specialty bras? Like, is it just word of mouth? Like since you've been in the business so long, you kind of know where to go.

[8:49] Lori Kaplan: I know where to go. And before COVID, we used to go to trade shows. There would be three or four trade shows every year at the Javit Center for the intimate apparel industry where all the vendors get together and we go and see what's new, if there's anything that's new and innovative that we should have in our shop. We're always looking for those specialty kind of garments. So bras that are very plungy in the front and very low back, and all kinds of shapewear that will fix a variety of problems. And I belong to a networking group with other shop owners around the country. And we kind of share. So what did you see? What's new and hot that we need to have? Typically, our band sizes have only gone up to 42 before, but now we're starting to get more plus-sized women wearing 46s and 48s. So I would ask the ladies in my networking group, what's your favorite bra in a 46F? And you know, I'll tell I'll buy a couple of pieces and try them out.

And if we have a good reaction, you know, get more colors or get more styles. So yeah, it is a constant process of evolving, you know. It's like what's good today might not be good tomorrow, and styles are discontinued, and materials change, factories change.

[10:09] Lori Kaplan: There's been a lot of disruption in this industry because of COVID. A lot of the goods are made in Europe and in China and in Vietnam, and we have vendors in Belgium and Turkey. So right now we just heard from one of our major vendors for strapless bras. They have a product called the red carpet strapless. We are in prime strapless bra season that their container load of strapless bras coming from Asia is stuck and will not arrive in the States until the end of July.

[10:49] Lori Kaplan: This is going to kill us. And it is going to kill that vendor's bottom line for the whole year. This is like this is where your meat and potatoes business comes from. And every retail lingerie store in this country is now royally screwed that we can't get the strapless bra. Everyone needs those strapless bras for prom season and award season and gown season and wedding season.

[11:19] Devario D. Simmons: The Costume Industry Coalition was launched to advocate for the survival of New York City's custom costume industry. Collectively, CIC members employ hundreds of artisans and costuming experts. Their costumes are seen on stages and screen worldwide. To learn more about CIC and how you can get involved or make a tax-deductible donation, please visit www.costumeindustrycoalition.com.

[11:45] Devario D. Simmons: In these trying times, many are not in the position to give, but you can always help by spreading the word.

[11:58] Devario D. Simmons: So, of course, like everyone on the entire planet, you also had to go through COVID and the quarantine.

[12:07] Lori Kaplan: Well, we were the day we heard Broadway was going dark, we knew we were going dark too. We came in here two days after the Broadway shutdown. We had one last bride to work with on that Saturday, and then we were closed until the city reopened in July. During that time, we built an e-commerce site. We'd never had one of those. So we built a Shopify store. We started doing bra fittings by Zoom. And I was contacted by women that live in Malaysia and India and Alaska and, you know, in the middle of nowhere in Nebraska. So it was really interesting to connect with people that I normally wouldn't have been able to connect with. We're still evaluating whether it is worth it, those virtual fittings.

It's a lot of back and forth shipping; costs have gotten so crazy because of fuel prices and labor shortages that, you know, the customers don't want to pay for shipping. We're a small business, you know, we're not like Zappos where we can ship it for free and send them a return label to send the stuff back for free. So we're evaluating that, but it was, you know, during the pandemic. There weren't any other options. So we opened in July, we came in, and we're still only operating at about 25% of our normal business without Broadway.

[13:31] Devario D. Simmons: Now that Broadway's coming back, do you think that you'll be able to see kind of those numbers go back up with your operation there at Bra Tenders?

[13:42] Lori Kaplan: I am hoping by the end of the year that we start to see somewhat normal business, you know. COVID is gonna change the way everybody does business. We used to hold thousands of dozens of pairs of tights here that, you know, a specific product used mainly by Broadway and on cruise ships and theme parks and touring companies. Well, that vendor went out of business in 2019, and I spent most of the year trying to find somebody to reproduce that product. And we finally found the mill. And I sent out samples to a bunch of costume designers. Hey, we got 20 stock colors. Let me know which ones you think are gonna work for you. So I think once we have that product that nobody else will have, that will help a little bit.

You know, when I started the business, there was no internet. And now, you know, when somebody needed a balcony bra, they would say, go see Lori, you know, because nobody knew what a balcony bra was. Now my vendors have become my competitors. You can buy anything from all over the world online. So I guess our perceived value has been diminished because of that. Even though we stock something like between five and eight thousand different products here, specific, and we carry merchandise. You will not walk into a Kmart or a Target or a Macy's or a Bloomingdale's and find things like roll garters and things like waist cinchers and things like your mother's open bottom girdle from the 1950s and period little bras and scene stockings.

So we stock a lot of specialty goods here, and we're starting to see a little bit of that. There's a couple of movies and TV series, HBO and Netflix, Mazel is filming around. You know, they've been buying from us, and White House Plumbers is now a new series, also takes place in the 70s that have been in contact with us. But really, our bread and butter business is with Broadway. So I don't think we make a return approaching 80% until Broadway is fully back. And I don't think that's gonna happen until mid to late 2022.

[15:59] Devario D. Simmons: For sure. I agree with that also. And I'll tell the listeners, like, I know ladies that I've worked with in the business that have been fit by Lori and they swear by Bra Tenders. I know one close friend, she's an actress. She's like, Lori knows exactly what I need. I don't even have to show up anymore. She's so good at what she does. I know they're very, very happy that you all were able to withstand the pandemic. I saw on your website there is a five-piece bra kit. What's that?

[16:30] Lori Kaplan: Well, we think that every woman should have five different kinds of bras in her wardrobe because you can't wear the same thing for every outfit. So, you know, one of those would be a strapless, one of those would be a sport. And if you do Pilates one day and you're going to trampoline jumping the next, you're going to need two different kinds of sport bras. Your basic everyday bra that you go to work in, depending on your size, that's gonna vary for every woman and, you know, personal preference, but at least one or two bras like that, t-shirt bra, little black bra, just like you need a little black dress in the wardrobe. You should have something sexy because you never know. And you should have a weekend kind of leisure bra, something that's fun and flirty, or something that's more for comfort.

Because when you have big breasts, you can hurt yourself walking around without a bra. So we've taken in a bunch of bralettes now. Somebody designed a bra specifically for busty women that has no seams, no wires, and it's been hit of the season and a year where the bra was deemed the most useless item of 2020. But now everybody's taken off their winter, their heavy layers, and they're saying, wow, I better go get my bra wardrobe in shape, you know. And the average life of a bra is really only six months to a year. And if you only have one bra in your wardrobe and you wear it every single day, it's gonna make that bra not live so long. But if you have a couple in your rotation, then each one will last longer.

But you should, you know, be prepared for any scenario. I've heard too many women say, well, this was the only thing I could wear today because I only had one bra, and you know, this is what it goes with. And women should treat themselves better than that. You know, it's like it could be an investment to buy a basic bra wardrobe of five different kinds of bras, but we're worth it, you know. And it's a basic item, you know, you put on panties every day. If you wear a 34 F or G in a bra, you need to wear a bra every day. And it's just your basic wardrobe supplies. So we try to educate women about how to take care of them and why the difference. A lot of our busty girls like to sleep in their bras. But yeah, you know, there's a bra for every occasion, maybe two bras for every occasion.

[18:59] Devario D. Simmons: I love that tagline, a bra for every occasion. That's amazing. Often, would you say someone should get resized?

[19:08] Lori Kaplan: Every year.

[19:09] Devario D. Simmons: Every year.

[19:10] Lori Kaplan: Okay. So it should come around, just do your yearly checkup with Lori. When you make all your doctor's appointments for your mammogram and your regular health checkups, you should get a bra checkup because women's bodies change depending on what they're eating, how they're exercising, you know, whether they're taking medication, if they're pregnant or nursing or menopausal. So we change sizes six to eight times in our lives. Even if your size is the same, things tend to shift and women's breasts lose volume as we age. So we just need different things at different stages in our lives. And I have women that come in here, you know, that say, look, I'm wearing the same bra I wore at my high school graduation. Isn't it great? And it's like, uh, no. You're like a stuff. There's the trash can. That's where that bra belongs, you know. It's not 30 years later; you should buy yourself a new bra, you know.

[20:08] Devario D. Simmons: Right. Ugh, I could only imagine. Lori, I'm gonna ask you a cheeky question. What would you say your favorite type of bra is?

[20:17] Lori Kaplan: One that fits well and makes you look good. And you know, it really doesn't matter what it looks like; it's how your clothes look on top of that. And that's what foundations do, you know. We worked with Tim Gunn when he was on Bravo and he had his guide to style show. We were his season opener, and he had a client that was a size 30E, and she never had a bra that fits, but he kept saying, you can't build on a rocky foundation. So your clothes will look, you know, buying a proper fitting bra is the easiest, most economical and most immediate way a woman can improve her appearance. It is instantaneous, and a lot of women think they look like they lost 10 pounds because everything's sitting in a better place.

[21:04] Devario D. Simmons: Yes, if your boobs are not on your belly and they're where they should be, you're gonna create a longer and leaner silhouette. Lori, where can our listeners find you? Where can they find Bra Tenders?

[21:15] Lori Kaplan: Bra Tenders is at 630 Ninth Avenue in Manhattan in an old building called the Film Center. So before it was an office building, it used to be a film vault for all the Hollywood movie studios. We're right in the theater district, the heart of New York City. We're five minutes from Penn Station and five minutes from the Port Authority, and 20 minutes from anywhere in the city, West Side, East Side, and we're also online at BraTenders.com.

[21:46] Devario D. Simmons: That's so lovely. Lori, you've been in the business for so long. Is there a story you would like to share with us, like one of your favorite memories from working with a lot of the entertainment individuals that you have been working with over this time?

[22:01] Lori Kaplan: Well, probably the most exciting and rewarding experience I had was when Gloria Steinem came to me for a bra fitting. And, you know, we had this whole conversation because I was a young 13-year-old girl when the feminists first started the whole women's movement, and she convinced my whole generation to burn our bras, and it just tickled me that here's that icon, that legend in my fitting room naked, getting a bra fitting from me.

[22:32] Devario D. Simmons: Ah, that's amazing. I'm sure you have many more interesting people to meet. And I'm so glad that Bra Tenders are still with us.

[22:40] Lori Kaplan: Me too.

[22:43] Devario D. Simmons: So glad to see all of our small businesses that really feed the entertainment industry, and I mean, personally, I'm very thankful that you all are still here with us in New York. I just want to thank you, Lori, for spending this time with me. All of you should go get lifted up with Lori. Maybe you could have a podcast called "Lift It Up with Lori."

[22:43] Lori Kaplan: We're gonna start doing some Facebook Lives called Bra School, and you know, it's like here's the scoop on the ABCs of the underworld.

[22:43] Devario D. Simmons: So very nice. Thank you so much, Lori.

[22:43] Lori Kaplan: Thank you, Devario. This has been Into Costume. Thanks to the Broadway Podcast Network for their support. If you have any feedback on today's episode, find us on our Twitter handle @IntoCostume. We'd love to hear from you. If you'd like to learn more about the Costume Industry Coalition, please visit their website at costumeindustrycoalition.com. Remember to subscribe and rate on whatever platform you're using, and join us again next time for more stories to get you into costume. Thanks for listening.