This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jimi: My friend just won an Olivia, by the way.

[0:02] Tommy: Let's talk about that.

[0:03] Jimi: Who did?

[0:04] Tommy: My friend.

[0:05] Jimi: No way!

[0:06] Tommy: Yeah.

[0:06] Jimi: That's awesome.

[0:08] Tommy: For what?

[0:09] Jimi: Um, so she's in a new musical that's on the West End.

[0:13] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[0:13] Jimi: Um, and it won Best Comedy.

[0:16] Tommy: So, hooray.

[0:17] Jimi: That's fabulous.

[0:19] Tommy: Pal's winning awards.

[0:20] Jimi: That's the life I lead now.

[0:22] Tommy: That's fabulous.

[0:24] Jimi: And Lynn's there.

[0:25] Tommy: She's met Lynn.

[0:26] Jimi: Ooh.

[0:28] Tommy: Um, who else is there?

[0:30] Jimi: Nathan Lane.

[0:32] Tommy: You're just marching down the list of famous people, aren't you?

[0:36] Jimi: Right.

[0:36] Tommy: That's it.

[0:37] Jimi: That's all there is.

[0:40] Tommy: Somebody get us another drink.

[0:42] Jimi: Welcome to Jim and Tomic's Musical Theater Happy Hour.

[0:44] Tommy: Your weekly podcast with cadenzas and caiperinhas.

[0:49] Jimi: Yep, sorry.

[0:51] Tommy: We are scraping the bottom of the barrel already.

[0:53] Jimi: We really are, literally.

[0:54] Tommy: I was like, right, cadenzas, that's a great one.

[0:57] Jimi: You know, maybe this is what we really need help with, Twitter and Reddit.

[1:02] Tommy: Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

[1:02] Jimi: If you have like an intro, your weekly podcast with something to do with musical theater and some kind of alcoholic beverage.

[1:10] Tommy: Exactly.

[1:11] Jimi: Um generally alliteration, but we'll take rhymes.

[1:15] Tommy: Yeah, we'll take rhymes and, you know, similar sounds, similar letters.

[1:21] Jimi: Because if you've learned anything from this podcast, it's that Jimmy and I are not creative at all and need your help.

[1:27] Tommy: Absolutely.

[1:28] Jimi: Although I think cadenza is a beautiful word.

[1:31] Tommy: I have cadenza confused with Credanza, which is from the Cat in the Hat animated version voiced by the guy who sings Helamada Helifada.

[1:41] Jimi: Don't worry about it. It's just a thing.

[1:43] Tommy: Credanza?

[1:45] Jimi: As in like Tony.

[1:46] Tommy: No, I think it's a made-up Dr. Seuss kind of word.

[1:49] Jimi: A cadenza is like, um, that's yeah that was not perfect.

[2:02] Tommy: That was beautiful.

[2:03] Jimi: You're welcome.

[2:04] Tommy: I'm in tears.

[2:06] Jimi: Thank you so much.

[2:06] Tommy: Crying with how pretty that was.

[2:09] Jimi: Thank you.

[2:10] Tommy: I will play Mabel one day in the Pirates of Penzance.

[2:14] Jimi: Uh, what's in the glass today?

[2:17] Tommy: Uh, it's naturally communion wine.

[2:21] Jimi: I know I can't think of anything else.

[2:23] Tommy: What is it really? Like really, like mine does no mine's is water.

[2:26] Jimi: Just water.

[2:26] Tommy: It's not yet been changed.

[2:27] Jimi: Not yet.

[2:28] Tommy: Not yet been changed.

[2:29] Jimi: Soon.

[2:30] Tommy: Hopefully.

[2:31] Jimi: God willing.

[2:33] Tommy: God willing.

[2:34] Jimi: Fingers crossed.

[2:34] Tommy: Um, why are we saying this?

[2:38] Jimi: Let's find out.

[2:38] Tommy: Um, what musical features Socrates or Socrates if you're a Bill and Ted and Kleined, Jean-Paul Sartre, and El Ron Hubbard in its cast?

[2:49] Jimi: Man. Weird show, right?

[2:51] Tommy: If it wasn't Godspell, it would be a ridiculous show.

[2:54] Jimi: Exactly.

[2:55] Tommy: Thank goodness it is Godspell.

[3:15] Jimi: Of the Lord.

[4:08] Tommy: It's very funny because I've gotten into the habit now of not saying thank God.

[4:14] Jimi: Huh.

[4:15] Tommy: Unless I'm like really extreme.

[4:17] Jimi: Okay.

[4:18] Tommy: But I'm quite good at saying like, oh my goodness and um my god.

[4:22] Jimi: And now what we will get is like someone will make a clip of all of the times they've said thank god.

[4:27] Tommy: Yeah, exactly. All the time you've said it and the podcast be like, you're wrong.

[4:31] Jimi: Yeah, in my head, I don't say it that much.

[4:33] Tommy: Do you so do you this is always a question I have too? Do you censor in your head? Like, do you say the um the swear word or whatever in your head and then vocalize the censoring, or do you just say the censored word right off the bat?

[4:51] Jimi: I think I just say the censored word. I don't think I do that. I don't think I could think one thing and say another.

[4:57] Tommy: Alright.

[4:58] Jimi: I think I would die.

[5:00] Tommy: See, because I do the opposite. I'll be like, oh, fiddlesticks, and I'm not saying fiddlesticks in my own.

[5:05] Jimi: Okay, and you've stopped yourself.

[5:07] Tommy: No, I actively think can't say god, can't say god. Gosh, or um goodness.

[5:14] Jimi: Um, funny little aside already.

[5:18] Tommy: Thanks for the starting.

[5:19] Jimi: We're never gonna talk about the musical.

[5:21] Tommy: No.

[5:22] Jimi: Um, friend of mine directed Songs for a New World, which we've talked about. Everyone's an expert on that now.

[5:27] Tommy: Absolutely.

[5:30] Jimi: And then the Sun and Moon. Um, and I thought, you know, and I looked around and I thought, my god, I'll never have the moon.

[5:39] Tommy: Right.

[5:40] Jimi: Uh, the girl playing it was a member of the Church of the Latter-day Saints, I think.

[5:46] Tommy: Can't say God.

[5:48] Jimi: And can't say God.

[5:50] Tommy: So she said, and I thought, my gosh. I'll never have and it's cute. I think it's cute.

[5:55] Jimi: That's really sweet.

[5:56] Tommy: And it's from, it's because of her.

[5:58] Jimi: Uh-huh.

[5:59] Tommy: I say that. I've never even met her.

[6:01] Jimi: Really?

[6:01] Tommy: Huh.

[6:02] Jimi: Out there, no.

[6:03] Tommy: Out there, you've changed me.

[6:05] Jimi: That's very idiosyncratic.

[6:08] Tommy: Exactly.

[6:10] Jimi: I think this is a good time to preface though.

[6:12] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[6:12] Jimi: Obviously, you know, Godspell's a religious musical, closing the title. Um, neither Tommy nor I are religious men.

[6:20] Tommy: I wanna, we'll talk about this later, because I have some opinions about this.

[6:24] Jimi: Um, that's interesting.

[6:25] Tommy: Yeah, I think it'll be fun.

[6:27] Jimi: But okay, we should introduce the musical.

[6:29] Tommy: Well, I ignore my preface.

[6:31] Jimi: Okay.

[6:32] Tommy: Um, so yeah, we're talking about Godspell.

[6:34] Jimi: Godspell.

[6:35] Tommy: Uh, which has been around a long time. Uh, mostly known because it's got music and some lyrics, most lyrics by Stephen Schwartz.

[6:43] Jimi: Most lyrics, yeah.

[6:43] Tommy: Who you know because new lyrics.

[6:49] Jimi: Right.

[6:50] Tommy: Because he didn't create them.

[6:53] Jimi: Yeah.

[6:53] Tommy: He just adapted them.

[6:55] Jimi: Yeah.

[6:55] Tommy: Which I think's cool.

[6:56] Jimi: Yeah.

[6:57] Tommy: Um, Steven.

[6:58] Jimi: And why do we know Stephen Schwartz?

[7:00] Tommy: Stephen Schwartz of Wicked fame for sure. That's probably I would call that his most popular nowadays.

[7:05] Jimi: Um, I don't know. It's not that big a show.

[7:12] Tommy: I would, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who hasn't heard of Wicked.

[7:15] Jimi: Uh, he also did Pippin.

[7:16] Tommy: Absolutely.

[7:17] Jimi: Um, which you should know, and a couple other things, many other things.

[7:21] Tommy: Baker's Wave, Children of Eden, like some great stuff.

[7:25] Jimi: But then also lyrically, he's a bit of a god as well.

[7:29] Tommy: Yes, he is.

[7:30] Jimi: Because Hunchback, we can thank for that.

[7:33] Tommy: Prince of Egypt.

[7:33] Jimi: Prince of Egypt film.

[7:35] Tommy: But goodness, that's good.

[7:38] Jimi: Um, he's great.

[7:41] Tommy: We like him.

[7:42] Jimi: Pocahontas.

[7:43] Tommy: Um, bunch of a bunch of things.

[7:45] Jimi: So Steven Schwartz.

[7:47] Tommy: Um, the other Steven.

[7:48] Jimi: And this is the first time we've done a Stephen Schwartz.

[7:50] Tommy: Which is surprising to me.

[7:51] Jimi: I love Stephen Schwartz's stuff.

[7:53] Tommy: I know.

[7:53] Jimi: Um, I guess he's not done, he's not like, here's my 20 million show repertoire.

[8:00] Tommy: Right.

[8:01] Jimi: Do you know what I mean?

[8:01] Tommy: He's got a couple, a couple hits, not a lot of trunk songs standing around.

[8:06] Jimi: Like he's very high yield. Everything he writes is pretty good, I would say.

[8:12] Tommy: Yeah.

[8:12] Jimi: Yeah, exactly.

[8:13] Tommy: Yeah, I would completely agree.

[8:15] Jimi: Um, and also the book and original director was Mr. John-Michael Tebelak.

[8:19] Tommy: Yeah.

[8:22] Jimi: Belak.

[8:22] Tommy: Uh, who knows?

[8:23] Jimi: Oh, the Tebelak.

[8:24] Tommy: Tebelak.

[8:25] Jimi: Um, apologies if we're saying that wrong.

[8:28] Tommy: Um, and it was his idea.

[8:30] Jimi: It's his show, very, very much.

[8:32] Tommy: Yeah, very much so.

[8:33] Jimi: So he was at Carnegie Mellon.

[8:35] Tommy: Notice how I say Carnegie now.

[8:36] Jimi: Good for you, I'm proud of you.

[8:38] Tommy: Thank you. That's how it's pronounced as far as the college is concerned.

[8:41] Jimi: Yeah, I think I was just wrong.

[8:43] Tommy: Yeah.

[8:44] Jimi: I've heard, I think I've lost the show. I have heard people I trust say it both ways.

[8:48] Tommy: Carnegie, Carnegie.

[8:51] Jimi: I do think the American way of both the college and the hall is Carnegie Mellon, Carnegie Hall.

[8:57] Tommy: Exactly. I think that's the most agreed upon.

[8:59] Jimi: But who knows? It's funner to say Carnegie.

[9:02] Tommy: Yeah.

[9:03] Jimi: You know?

[9:05] Tommy: And so yeah, it was he conceived it because so he's Episcopalian.

[9:09] Jimi: Um, or certainly was Episcopalian.

[9:12] Tommy: Um, and he was struck one time when he attended an Easter service at home in Pittsburgh.

[9:18] Jimi: Um, and it was just really soulless and without joy, which is the kind of opposite of what the Episcopalian belief is.

[9:25] Tommy: Um, and then he also got some hostility from his fellow churchgoers because, you know, he was young and basically a hippie because it was the 70s.

[9:35] Jimi: Yeah.

[9:36] Tommy: When those people were around just casually, not in an ironic history kind of way.

[9:42] Jimi: Um, exactly.

[9:43] Tommy: But yeah, and then so he started it off as a thesis project at Carnegie Mellon, just as a, I mean, play might be a misnomer because it seems more like a spoken word performance piece.

[9:53] Jimi: But yeah, yeah.

[9:54] Tommy: Certainly in that play performancey world, no songs, or at least very few.

[10:00] Jimi: Um, very few, yeah.

[10:02] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[10:03] Jimi: Um, but interestingly, one of them is now made it into the musical.

[10:07] Tommy: Exactly.

[10:07] Jimi: That we know and love.

[10:08] Tommy: Which is why it was that good about it.

[10:09] Jimi: Which is why it's new lyrics by Stephen Schwartz, because he was brought in after some kind of workshoppy development to write new music and lyrics to kind of interface with the book, which is an interesting, you know, that's not how a lot of musicals get made.

[10:25] Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

[10:27] Jimi: Exactly.

[10:28] Tommy: Um, and so yeah, when Schwartz got brought on board, it got taken to off-Broadway where it played for five years and it was really successful.

[10:37] Jimi: Wildly successful, kind of a mini cult hit.

[10:39] Tommy: Yeah.

[10:39] Jimi: Um, so successful that it got turned into a movie.

[10:42] Tommy: Yeah.

[10:42] Jimi: Like when does that happen?

[10:43] Tommy: When do you get an off-Broadway into a movie?

[10:46] Jimi: Yeah, with a lot of the same cast, too.

[10:49] Tommy: Absolutely.

[10:50] Jimi: Um, decent budget movie.

[10:53] Tommy: Yeah.

[10:53] Jimi: Like filmed on location in New York.

[10:57] Tommy: Um, very 70s.

[10:59] Jimi: Another.

[11:00] Tommy: Yeah, another.

[11:02] Jimi: Um, and then it jumped over to Broadway in '76.

[11:07] Tommy: And it was nominated for Best Original Score at the Tonies.

[11:12] Jimi: Yep.

[11:12] Tommy: And it did lose to Anne.

[11:14] Jimi: Yeah, it was once it hit Broadway, it hit maybe mediocre reviews.

[11:19] Tommy: I think it didn't, its transfer to Broadway wasn't the best.

[11:23] Jimi: You know, I, it seems more like an off-Broadway show.

[11:26] Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

[11:27] Jimi: And it makes a lot of sense.

[11:28] Tommy: Yes, yeah, it makes a lot of sense as to why that happened.

[11:32] Jimi: Um, which is totally fair.

[11:35] Tommy: Um, and then it's been back and forth, so it came across the pond, I think in '71, I want to say.

[11:42] Jimi: Early 70s anyway, um, and did reasonably well over here.

[11:47] Tommy: Um, and then it's, you know, been revived a couple of times off-Broadway, toured. There was a Broadway revival in 2011.

[11:59] Jimi: Um, yeah, that was a big end.

[12:01] Tommy: Yeah, that was, that was Corbin Bleu and Hunter Parish, and then Corbin Bleu replaced Hunter Parish, they were the G's, I, uh, G's, I, the G Z I. But also Telly Love, yes, Lindsay Mendez, wonderful, wonderful cast.

[12:21] Jimi: Great peeps.

[12:21] Tommy: Um, and I don't know about in your neck of the woods, but this is a very, very popular Amdram college, high school production, church group production. Like the, you, I, it would be hard to throw a stone and not find a production of Godspell in America.

[12:39] Jimi: Yeah.

[12:39] Tommy: I mean, just yeah, it's, it's, it's not British, it's not as like as hugely insidious.

[12:46] Jimi: Yeah.

[12:46] Tommy: Um, as something you see, like all of our, but it is done a lot.

[12:52] Jimi: And I must say, I'm gonna say right off the bat, the best amateur production I've seen of anything was of Godspell.

[12:58] Tommy: Huh.

[12:59] Jimi: We did it my junior year of high school, not as our like big musical, but as our tinier musical.

[13:06] Tommy: Um, very well received.

[13:10] Jimi: Yeah, great show to do, and it fits as we, as we can talk about the show, you'll understand why, but it really fits a smaller scale.

[13:17] Tommy: Yeah.

[13:18] Jimi: Do you know what I mean?

[13:19] Tommy: A more intimate setting.

[13:20] Jimi: Yeah, absolutely.

[13:21] Tommy: And there's lots of room for interpretation and fun, and you know, super flexible cast.

[13:27] Jimi: Um, all the good things you want with a school or Amdram production.

[13:32] Tommy: Absolutely, absolutely.

[13:34] Jimi: So what is it? I hear you scream.

[13:36] Tommy: Um, well, it's basically set around mostly from the Gospel of Matthew with a little bit of the Gospel of Luke thrown in there.

[13:46] Jimi: Um, and the songs are taken from, well, some of the songs are taken from Episcopalian hymnals, yeah, which are like, you know, medieval era, like 13th century.

[13:58] Jimi: Quote unquote traditional music.

[14:01] Tommy: Um it's very traditional as it comes, traditional as it comes.

[14:05] Jimi: Um and uh Stephen Schwartz has given it a big lift um and has really created a show that I would say is about community.

[14:15] Tommy: Yeah.

[14:16] Jimi: Yeah, completely.

[14:18] Tommy: Um I think it's and I guess this is something we'll maybe get into in a second maybe we'll get into right now.

[14:25] Jimi: Uh-huh.

[14:26] Tommy: Um foolish way.

[15:00] Jimi: Turn back home.

[15:04] Tommy: Turn back home now.

[15:08] Jimi: Turn back home.

[15:24] Tommy: Uh I mean I would the I would describe this musical about the life and times of Jesus Christ.

[15:32] Jimi: Um maybe so my background.

[15:36] Tommy: I went to Catholic school for nine years.

[15:39] Jimi: Um it did a great job of turning me into a homosexual, and then that did a great job of, you know, making me less of a believer than my Catholic school upbringing might have led me to believe.

[15:51] Tommy: Um and so these are Godspell is maybe one of the only musicals I've experienced save something like oh I don't know The Wizard of Oz, where I very much knew the story and the plot and like all the different pieces of it before I had ever experienced it in this particular um revision.

[16:12] Jimi: Um and so I don't know if I'm ever gonna be able to see this musical and not just see it be a super religious kind of feeling musical.

[16:19] Tommy: I don't think that's a bad thing.

[16:21] Jimi: Um but it's interesting to me that for you this is a musical about community first.

[16:28] Tommy: Yeah, well I think um I I guess and maybe not first, but certainly at its heart.

[16:33] Jimi: Um and on the surface, you can't get away from the fact that hey, we're looking at the story of Jesus and the passion, and you know, we're working out there.

[16:43] Tommy: But it's interesting because I mean I went to uh um relatively secular school.

[16:50] Jimi: Okay, but it's it was always very grey in the Glasgow City Council, so you know, we we did lots of biblical stuff.

[16:59] Tommy: Um and I feel like every child, or certainly every child in you know, my neck of the woods, um unless you go to a a specific denominational school of of another faith, um, you're gonna be learning about Jesus.

[17:16] Jimi: Like I mean, yeah.

[17:17] Tommy: Um so I do know what you mean.

[17:19] Jimi: Like the story is it's a tale as old as time.

[17:22] Tommy: Right.

[17:22] Jimi: Right.

[17:23] Tommy: Do you know what I mean?

[17:23] Jimi: Yeah.

[17:24] Tommy: Um, and you do you recognize even the parables, yeah.

[17:27] Jimi: Most of them I had heard even anecdotally or in pop culture or something like that.

[17:32] Tommy: Right.

[17:33] Jimi: Um, but you do you know this, you know this story.

[17:36] Tommy: Right.

[17:37] Jimi: Um and so I think that's for me then.

[17:39] Tommy: Yeah, it I don't kind of acknowledge it.

[17:41] Jimi: Yeah.

[17:41] Tommy: Do you know?

[17:42] Jimi: I mean, I just kind of I'm like, ah yes, this this old yarn. What's this about? Do you know what I mean?

[17:46] Tommy: So you kind of see into the heart of what it's about.

[17:49] Jimi: See, and for me, what I question, and especially this time going back through it, is the I don't know if this musical makes sense if you don't know these parables and this story and like Jesus and his existence.

[18:03] Tommy: Like so much of it is hidden in unspoken winks and nods and nudges and like, ah, yes, and then that must be Judas.

[18:11] Jimi: And like you and they never call each other these names.

[18:14] Tommy: They, you know, very rarely even call him Jesus.

[18:17] Jimi: Um and like most of the parables, I only understand because Catholic school teachers were like, and this is what it means.

[18:24] Tommy: Um if you don't have that kind of cultural knowledge behind you, this is a weird show about clowning kind of people.

[18:34] Jimi: Um which is interesting.

[18:37] Tommy: Yeah, I think that's very true.

[18:38] Jimi: Yeah, because it's not I wouldn't say you would go to see Godspell to learn about Jesus.

[18:46] Tommy: I mean, I don't think this is the play that this isn't really the show to do that in.

[18:50] Jimi: It's not Jesus 101.

[18:51] Tommy: This isn't like Right, exactly.

[18:53] Jimi: And not because it's factually inaccurate, not but just because it doesn't labor the point.

[18:58] Tommy: That's not it's not using the biblical stories to tell that story, if that makes sense.

[19:05] Jimi: Yeah.

[19:06] Tommy: Um it's it they're really using it as a a metaphor, not a metaphor even, but just uh as a vehicle.

[19:11] Jimi: Yeah.

[19:12] Tommy: Well the to the they're putting a contemporary spin on what, you know, uh Tebalek had thought was kind of a stodgy telling of a story.

[19:22] Jimi: And this is so when we did it in high school, I was very far from you know my church going days.

[19:27] Tommy: Um and it's when I really had an interesting revelation about what was for me Roman Catholicism, um and is kind of Christianity in general and has kind of changed my view on these sorts of things.

[19:40] Jimi: If you picture Christianity and like the story of Jesus in kind of the same realm as your mind as you picture like something like Star Trek um or Harry Potter or Battlestar Battlestar Galactica, where it's this epic tale that people are very, very invested in, and they're fans of, and they have meetings about how much they enjoy this piece of you know, this storytelling, um, and they have rituals that they do related to it.

[20:15] Tommy: It helped me get into like I was not a fan of doing God's spell to begin with because the pendulum had very swung very much swung in the opposite direction.

[20:23] Jimi: Um that kind of thinking about it that way as like a story, as a really interesting kind of story with all the connotations, you know, and it's weird because I guess that kind of goes against my previous assertion that you gotta know all this stuff for it to make sense, but it was interesting.

[20:40] Tommy: It was junior year of high school was a big time in my life.

[20:43] Jimi: Yeah.

[20:44] Tommy: I think I don't know, because I feel the first the first time I saw it is a full show.

[20:48] Jimi: I'd listened to it before.

[20:49] Tommy: The first thing kind of seeing its entirety with all the parables, um and I don't know, there's something that is just so intrinsically kind of joyous about it.

[21:00] Jimi: Yeah.

[21:01] Tommy: Yeah.

[21:01] Jimi: Do you know what I mean?

[21:02] Tommy: And I did, I wasn't feeling like, gosh, I'm feeling inspired on a spiritual level.

[21:07] Jimi: It wasn't that.

[21:08] Tommy: It was it was in something a lot more basal, yeah, I would say that I felt inspired.

[21:13] Jimi: I felt like you know, I I felt very banded together in humanity almost as opposed to banded together, you know, spiritually with the Christian brothers.

[21:24] Tommy: Right.

[21:24] Jimi: It was you know that and that's I think that's again why I pull this idea of community.

[21:29] Tommy: Yeah.

[21:30] Jimi: Um and we've talked about it before, I think with Hair, yeah, which you know, very topical because of the time setting and everything.

[21:37] Tommy: Um but I feel like this is another great example of a tribe musical.

[21:43] Jimi: Absolutely.

[21:44] Tommy: You know, um right from the off, you've got this collection of disparate I mean clowns, yeah, um, their misfits, they're odd, but you know, just this in group of individuals basically who all are different, and then in comes this Jesus character and kind of unites them bit by bit, uh, and they kind of realize that it's better to be together than to be apart, basically.

[22:19] Jimi: Yeah, you know, it's it's a really simple message at the end, yeah.

[22:22] Tommy: Um, but I think it does it extremely well, yeah.

[22:25] Jimi: Absolutely, and I was really I was really blown away um by that production of just how much of that feeling came across, yeah, you know, yeah.

[22:36] Tommy: It's it's interesting because you know, I had seen and been a part of so many Passion and Jesus retellings through most of my upbringing, but then by the time God's bell had entered my life in high school, it's one of the ones where I still you know I I feel for the the the whole group when Jesus dies in this production, which is like which is not something I feel in other retellings of the passion, you know.

[23:06] Jimi: And the point is the like one of the big points of Christianity is that you do feel that is that like you do feel oh how awful it is that this thing has happened and how beautiful and wonderful that this man has given us all this stuff, like all this wonderful thought.

[23:22] Tommy: Um and like it's it it serves it it serves its purpose well, it gets you, which is absolutely neat.

[23:31] Jimi: And I I wonder if it is because of the fact it's not there not being like this is Jesus, right?

[23:38] Tommy: This is the way things were these were the you know, I mean, because even if you compare it to something like Jesus Christ Superstar, which again was it completely at this time as well, um, so it's it's good to compare.

[23:51] Jimi: Um but Jesus Christ Superstar is obviously I guess it looks a bit more at um kind of Judas's part in the passion, yeah.

[24:01] Tommy: But and and JCC seems a little more explicit in its storytelling, too, like their character, yeah.

[24:08] Jimi: It's very much it's very much it's it's a story, you know.

[24:11] Tommy: I mean, there is a narrative there.

[24:13] Jimi: Um, but the you know, if you think to the crucifixion in Jesus Christ Superstar, you compare it to the crucifixion in Godspell, it's a com it is a completely different feeling in God's Bell it is much more symbolic, um, and it's much more I think it has c carries a lot more impact than the one in Jesus Christ Superstar, where you're kind of expecting it almost exactly, you know, because you you know how the story ends, you know what happens.

[24:41] Tommy: Um I find that very interesting that even though in in something like Godspell again you know what's gonna happen here but but it hits you in a different way yeah yeah because it focuses much more on the like it it I think it does a really good job of taking the feeling like assuming all these things we've heard about the apostles and Jesus's followers in his life and times were explicitly accurate it takes that feeling that is portrayed in the Bible and all these tellings and very much gives it a wonderful contemporary context that makes you feel the the way you should feel like it it it makes you feel I think what the intent is of what is now become an ancient stodgy baffling text yeah yeah definitely absolutely in fact absolutely I would agree with you on that one absolutely um and that's something I really love about it like as someone who I'm not I'm not religious but I really respect people who have faith do you know what I mean in and follow something because it I think it's so nice to see people finding consolation um in in in anything really and it it doesn't matter what it is doesn't matter whether it's an organized religion or whether it's um you know I don't know just being cl feeling closer to nature every time you walk through a park or whether it's Star Trek like this is where right exact exactly whether it's Twin Peaks.

[26:15] Jimi: I'm I'm in that.

[26:16] Tommy: I'm you know what's up.

[26:17] Jimi: Yeah, exactly.

[26:17] Tommy: But if that's what gives you joy, if that's what gives you life, if that's what gets you up every day, wonderful.

[26:23] Jimi: Exactly.

[26:24] Tommy: And I think that's one of the great things about Godspell is even though it's using you know the passion as a as the vehicle, anyone can kind of relate because they all know this idea of but coming together as a community and working together for the better.

[26:39] Jimi: Yeah.

[26:39] Tommy: Um well done.

[26:41] Jimi: Yeah.

[26:42] Tommy: I think that's just really well done on this show.

[26:44] Jimi: Yeah.

[26:44] Tommy: And that's a run of one of the reasons why I absolutely shine.

[26:48] Jimi: He will impatient await.

[26:51] Tommy: Here's that is ever slightly.

[27:17] Jimi: How many cast recordings have you listened to?

[27:19] Tommy: The okay.

[27:20] Jimi: Maybe it's so hard.

[27:22] Tommy: A lot.

[27:23] Jimi: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[27:25] Tommy: Because there is there's so many.

[27:26] Jimi: There's so many.

[27:26] Tommy: At least there are so many the original, the movie, the 2011 touring cast with the original logo on brick, and then whatever whatever the yellow one is, that's one of the 2001 touring.

[27:42] Jimi: Is that the touring cast?

[27:43] Tommy: Um, those are the ones I've heard.

[27:45] Jimi: Which ones have you listened to?

[27:47] Tommy: Um, yep, those uh plus London.

[27:49] Jimi: Okay.

[27:50] Tommy: Um the two London ones.

[27:51] Jimi: Okay. Which one's your favourite?

[27:53] Tommy: You've chosen the correct ones.

[27:56] Jimi: Um which one's my favorite? It's a great question.

[27:59] Tommy: Yeah, it's a fantastic question.

[28:00] Jimi: Yeah. Thank you so much for asking it. Because I don't know. I actually don't know. So, I mean, one of and I've talked about this before again back in here, but one of the things I love about music theatre is old Broadway cast recordings, especially around the 70s.

[28:14] Tommy: Yes.

[28:15] Jimi: Because they're ridiculous. They're stupid. And actually, we had someone on Reddit tell us why they're a lot shorter.

[28:22] Tommy: Yeah, it's because I had known this, and it was back when we were talking about songs getting cut from what were what show were we talking about?

[28:30] Jimi: Little Night Music.

[28:30] Tommy: A Little Night Music.

[28:32] Jimi: That makes sense.

[28:33] Tommy: And why like you we were like, why can't they just put all the songs on it? Because we're thinking in a very 2016 kind of way.

[28:39] Jimi: Exactly. Where it's like you can just download all the songs out of Spotify, but that's not what these were recorded for. Whether it was a CD or record or an eight-track, they have capacity limits.

[28:49] Tommy: And so you can and like all those capacity limits trickle down to the whole recording process, so you can own you have to pick, you have to cut. Um, which I had like crossed my mind way back when, and I should have brought it up then.

[29:04] Jimi: It makes so much sense, isn't it?

[29:05] Tommy: Yeah.

[29:06] Jimi: Um, so the original off-Broadway cast recording is full of these lovely, juicy, weird moments. Do you know what I mean? With not the best vocalists in the world, which seems to be a trend the 70s, it's absolutely fine. Um, weird and peculiar orchestrations, um, but so I just think it's got so much heart.

[29:26] Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

[29:26] Jimi: Especially we beseech these.

[29:28] Tommy: Yes, yeah.

[29:29] Jimi: There's something very honest and pure about it all.

[29:32] Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

[29:33] Jimi: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So much. Um so I and I think to ask me like what my favorite is, I would I would say I've got favorite moments in each one of them. What is I think very specific about Godspell and all of its all of its cast recordings, because there are so many, they are so different.

[29:51] Tommy: They are all so different.

[29:53] Jimi: So, like, if you want an example right now, um the 2001 touring cast, the yellow album the yellow album you listen to that Tower of Babel which is like two you know underpinned by 2001 computer noises and like exactly it's so it's like late 90s yeah rave hall like very electronic and like beeps and boops and bops and then you listen to the 2011 Broadway revival and it's straight out of Glee and it's like a cappella and maybe some xylophone and like yeah vocal acrobatics all over the place.

[30:29] Tommy: But it's the same it's the same song.

[30:31] Jimi: It's the same song in the same musical serving the same purpose with vastly different it's not even just orchestration changes like it's just it's just it's just in it's like intention it's it's everything behind it is different.

[30:45] Tommy: Yeah.

[30:46] Jimi: Um and I find that fascinating because I I don't know if there's even another show out there that can be revived like Godspell can be revived.

[30:54] Tommy: Yeah.

[30:54] Jimi: Do you know what I mean in sense of like let's just you know tear up this rule book throw out I mean I don't I don't think there is one that has been and I'm sure it's you know it's because these are this is a story as old as time and so it is the interpretation not the story that counts and so you you feel a need to focus your energy on your interpretation of this story as opposed to on your like honest retelling of the story that's happening.

[31:27] Tommy: Like I can't I can't imagine someone restaging Phantom of the Opera in 20 years and being like, but this time we're going to reinterpret all the songs. Like, no, it doesn't make any sense.

[31:39] Jimi: Yeah. No, completely. Um, and it's like you can you can give it a you know tweaks and you can put it through, you know, logic pro 10 instead of whatever they use to the 70s. Do do the thing for the fans where it's like, now there are also three little pigs in the woods, like, ooh, this is different in the revival, but not like God's spell. But at the end of the day, it's this it's the same show, but God's bell is completely different.

[32:01] Tommy: One of the one of the main things, if you've never listened to God's bell before or don't really know much about it, one of the key parts that makes God's bell different is that there are technically no characters, yeah.

[32:12] Jimi: Um and what I mean by that is there's no named characters.

[32:16] Tommy: So Tommy, when you were in God's bill, you played Tommy.

[32:19] Jimi: Exactly. Yes.

[32:20] Tommy: Um, and that's you know, there are there's a Jesus, but only maybe.

[32:27] Jimi: Um and there's no, you know, you could slice and dice Jesus' role too among a bunch of different other people until you hit the ending bit.

[32:36] Tommy: Um, there's a John the Baptist, maybe there's a Judas, maybe, and that's about it.

[32:44] Jimi: Yeah, yeah, it's like there's a guy who baptizes Jesus, and there's a guy that Jesus kicks kisses on the cheek.

[32:49] Tommy: Right.

[32:49] Jimi: Um but they're never called John, and they're never called Judith.

[32:52] Tommy: No, and Jesus is barely called Jesus, like maybe maybe twice, maybe.

[32:59] Jimi: Um it's and that's and and that's really there's a huge intention behind that because it it's this idea of it it's a story for everyone, right? And anyone can fit into this, and it's just this idea of using the religion as a vehicle. I think even more like certainly in the most explicit interpretation of this, these people are the apostles, they're Jesus' followers, but yeah, stripping away their identity strips away that kind of stodgy religion-ness of the whole thing that I think is towards the intent.

[33:35] Tommy: Um because they all have other stories too. And so if you don't know which one is, you know, doubting Thomas or Luke or Matthew or whatever, um, then you don't associate anything with them, and it like opens you up to take the story to take the the feeling of the story in more than to like definitely play a game of I spy and be like, oh, which one's that one? Like it doesn't matter.

[33:57] Jimi: Yeah.

[33:58] Tommy: Yeah. Exactly. And that is the thing, is it it really doesn't matter. And you don't find yourself looking to be like, but I want to see your art.

[34:06] Jimi: Right.

[34:06] Tommy: Because it just kind of happens.

[34:07] Jimi: Yeah. Do you know what I mean? That's it's done well in the score that, you know, there are people, you know, early on who might not be into it who by the end are like zealots. Um there are people uh, you know, the girl who sing um day by day uh is right in there at the start, and you know, by the time she gets into By My Side, you know, she's like the holiest of the holy, I guess.

[34:33] Tommy: Um it's i there's these little arcs that you see, but it's not it's character development, not as we know it.

[34:39] Jimi: Right, exactly. And you could totally mess with those arcs. I'm sure there are revivals and tours that you know they've swapped around who sings what, and people have different arcs and different characters and different archetypes, and that's great and fine.

[34:51] Tommy: Absolutely.

[34:52] Jimi: Um of the reasons why I absolutely adore Stephen Schwartz is because of how how much he understands the importance of amateur theatre.

[35:01] Tommy: Yes.

[35:02] Jimi: Do you know? I mean, he realizes that this is this is where it this is where it continues to live, is in amateur theatre in high schools and colleges, wherever this is where theatre gets born. Um and he he's done loads of different like discussion things like that, and his um message boards, his archives on his website are great to go through. Um if you ever if you ever are feeling Schwartzy, um but you know, there's there's been times when there's been people asking, like, oh I'm playing um Maria, for example, who I think was the turnbackle man character, um, and they're like, So how do I play this? Like, supposed to be kind of sexy, is that the idea? And his answers, it's almost like a just a stock answer now. He's like, Maria, who played it back then, um had a really interesting sense of comedy, very kind of May West style, tongue in cheek.

[35:56] Tommy: Uh huh.

[35:56] Jimi: And so that's why we wrote the song in that style for her, but you do you, yeah. Do you know what I mean? And that's he you really is open to being like, but it's your song, yeah, please go for it. Do you know what I mean? Whatever way and is like, I wish you the best of luck, and I think that's a mate, like there's not you don't you never get that chance to just be like, alright, I just get to be me. Do you know what I mean? Just think so exciting, and being able to reflect as an actor, to be like, okay, well, what parts of me can I bring into this? How can I relate to this number? Yeah, you know, and it's very it's it I can't think of anything that does it quite like Godspell, even close to certainly not.

[36:36] Tommy: Um no, because I guess nothing has that same level of anonymity, I guess anonymity, yeah. Like that do you know, I mean, that where you can come into because obviously if you're, you know, playing around if you're playing someone like Desiree Armville, you can think, okay, well, how can I relate to Desiree, this character that exists, yeah, and you can think of of things that you share, yeah. But there when there's no template for you at all, all you have to do is just connect straight to the material and connect yourself to the material. And I think that's amazing. It's such such a gift.

[37:07] Jimi: It very much reminds me, this was a big unit, at least in my theater college, because it's big in theater education. Um there's a a branch of performance art that is variously called either oral interpretation or group interpretation. Um there's a couple other names floating around it for it too, but it's the performance of things that aren't plays. It's the performance of things that aren't musicals. You take a text, text being a very loaded word that could mean anything from a poem to a billboard to a color, um, and you bring it on stage and you perform it on stage. And something about Godspell very much reminds me of this group interp, oral and turp world.

[37:48] Tommy: Um it is like a uh a group and turp of aspects of the Bible.

[37:55] Jimi: Um which to me puts it like I feel like Godspell is only a musical because we call it a musical and because Stephen Schwartz wrote the music for it. Um it i i i it feels like i it's just it's poking outside a little bit of what I would deem musical theater.

[38:16] Tommy: Okay.

[38:17] Jimi: Maybe.

[38:19] Tommy: I d I I well, no, I I can see what you mean.

[38:22] Jimi: Because it's not an a straight a straight up narrative.

[38:24] Tommy: Right.

[38:25] Jimi: And because it's it is live it's living in the abstract.

[38:28] Tommy: Yeah.

[38:29] Jimi: Do you know what I mean? It's it's peculiar. It didn't redefine the form. Like we didn't see a bunch of Godspell clones afterwards. Um, you know, where even something I would say the closest comparison to Godspell I as we've said, is hair. Um, like certainly these are born of the same time and the same feeling and the same people working in the same places, but hair has a narrative, hair has characters to a point.

[38:56] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[38:57] Jimi: More so than god so than Godspell.

[38:59] Tommy: Um definitely.

[39:00] Jimi: And so, you know, it it's like it's poking its head just outside of like it's got one foot in another in another river.

[39:08] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[39:09] Jimi: Yeah.

[39:10] Tommy: Um, which is so interesting. And it's not something that's really ever been emulated since in the musical theater stage. I mean, no one else has taken any other story and told it out with the realms of storytelling. At least not at least not successfully enough for us to encounter it. I'm sure people have tried.

[39:30] Jimi: Yeah.

[39:31] Tommy: Um, definitely. But and I wonder there's there's probably a transition due in here soon before I ask my next question. I know this is I'm in my head. I'm like, how am I editing this? Because we've got great discussions, but there's no segues. It's just one big one big chat. But I won't I'm also like, but I want to put in all of the music.

[39:48] Jimi: Right, yeah.

[39:49] Tommy: We'll just do an underscore. Just under the whole thing.

[39:52] Jimi: I'll be playing the cast album under all of this discussion.

[39:55] Tommy: That'd be nice. I'd be into that. There's enough of them to go around.

[39:58] Jimi: Yeah, exactly. Anyway, musical break, then a question.

[40:08] Tommy: When will thou save the people?

[40:11] Jimi: Oh God of mercy when not kings and lords, but nations, not thrones and crowns, but men flowers of thy heart.

[40:25] Tommy: Oh God, oh God are they? Let them not pass like weeds away their heritage, a sunless day. God save the people.

[40:45] Jimi: Shall crime bring crime forever. Strength aiding still the strong. Is it thy will, oh father, that man shall toil for wrong.

[40:58] Tommy: Oh no, see thy mountains, no see thy skies.

[41:23] Jimi: Oh is this musical in big quotes in its bizarre abstract kind of way, would it have been as enduring or as successful if it wasn't about Jesus?

[41:37] Jimi: If it wasn't about Christianity, like church groups can go see Godspell, you know. The people who are really excited about their particular brand of Christianity can go see Godspell and find something in it and like also check that box of like I did a churchy thing today. Um would like my wager to the question is I don't think it would have been as successful. I think people would have thought it was weird and abstract and bizarre. But because there's this common currency, this like common heritage and storyline through it that we all know already, kind of, that makes it more successful and lets you come into like you get to land at a higher level of thinking from the get-go. You don't have to like spend some of your musical time to build people up to your complex thought. You can just drop them into it.

[42:32] Tommy: Yeah. Um I wonder about that because I would probably agree with you that it definitely would be a success. And I think one of the interesting things about it is that the church has really embraced it.

[42:47] Jimi: Yes. Um because there's nothing heretical in it.

[42:51] Tommy: No, it's I it's pretty much all straight from the Bible, if not directly quoted. Um at least at least the book.

[42:58] Jimi: Yeah. And there's nothing there, you know, where something like Jesus Christ Superstar really treads some fine lines. Um there's nothing in here that really insults the Bible, and a lot of it is just pure celebration.

[43:13] Tommy: Yeah. Um and I I've oh I do always find that really interesting because you know, Schwartz himself, uh obviously not um Tebelak, um because he was Episcopalian.

[43:27] Jimi: Right. But Stephen Schwartz himself, um talks about it from a very secular point of view.

[43:33] Tommy: Yeah. Um I just find it interesting that even though that is there, you know, this is the man that wrote the music from a secular perspective, um, I find it fascinating that he's then created something that the church loves.

[43:50] Jimi: I mean, do you think I feel like that's exactly why. Um this is this is a discussion in all places I have about um private education. Um the at least in my world, saving uh charter schools, there are private secular schools and private religious schools. Um private religious schools have an easier sell in my world, like as a from a fundraising perspective from a send your kids here kind of perspective, than a private secular school. The private secular school must be a really good school. They have to, because that's the only thing they have going for them, is that they are a really good school, and so that's why you send your kids here. Whereas like a private Catholic school, send your kids here because we have God.

Like there is uh a you know, greater motivation to, you know, spend money on our school because God wants you to. Um I think I suspect one of the reasons this musical is so successful in its storytelling is is because it's had some secular hands in it. Um like they have to make the story interesting. It can't just be intrinsically interesting because it's about Jesus. Like it has to be interesting from a human storytelling perspective, which I legitimately think the Jesus story is when told correctly. Um, but a lot of that gets sucked out.

[45:31] Tommy: Yeah, that's the thing, is it's supposed to be, you know, I mean? It's supposed to be the kind of thing that anyone can pick up and turn to and be like, oh okay, yeah, I get that. You don't need to go to church, you don't need to, you know, follow the faith.

[45:44] Jimi: Right. But you can open up your Gideon's Bible in your hotel if you're feeling really lonely and have something to turn to. Do you know what I mean?

[45:54] Tommy: Yeah. Um and get your mind going a bit. That's that's that that's the intention.

[45:57] Jimi: Yeah, exactly. And it gets lost in a lot of religious retellings of things, I think. Um and it Godspell's like it's like a back to its roots retelling. Um yeah, I I would 100% agree, which is again fascinating because in in some ways it obviously it was the intention of Tebelak to do it to create something that inhabits the joy of spirituality. Um but then bringing on board someone like Stephen Schwartz who isn't isn't playing that game. But so it's really interesting.

[46:31] Tommy: So say like this wasn't Godspell, but was like Jupiter's Spell or something, and was very much about you know uh aliens, like Roman gods. Um I I'd love that. Oh my god, but is it is a close comparison, like we're telling you know Rome, Greece, who cares? But like these myths which have morals to them, and we're gonna, you know, or it's like Hercules or something, um but done in this very I can't use the descriptor parabolic, can I? Because that just means curved. Um, but like through parables, parabolic, parabolisha, parabolitious kind of way, you know, like with it like just humans telling a human story with handheld human props and nothing very big or flashy. I don't think it would have lasted a month.

[47:23] Jimi: Um, definitely not. Even if it was equally as well written.

[47:27] Tommy: Yeah. What what's kind of taking along in my brain now is I love, you know, obviously finding out other perspectives, and that's the kind of thing we need to do nowadays. So I I'm casting out a fishing lane to all of our listeners out there who are of different faiths that aren't Christianity. Obviously, people who belong to the Christian faith, let us know what you think as well. But I'm fascinated to know like what do our Muslim listeners think about Godspell? What do our Jewish listeners think about Godspell? So my Buddhist listeners, if we've got any of them, I mean I absolutely want to hear all these things.

[48:05] Jimi: So my high school where we performed Godspell was predominantly Jewish. Um, or at least you know, mostly Jewish, to the point where I was surprised that the rest of the world was not when I left high school. Um, because like that was just my friends and what I knew. Um, but so it was very interesting to have some of these conversations, never too much in depth. We didn't talk, we actually didn't talk religion all that much in performing this show, which I thought was kind of the way to do it. Um, because it's about the story.

[48:34] Tommy: Um, but like some of the things, you know, the Last Supper is a Passover meal. Like Jesus was Jewish, and there are gentle nods to that throughout, you know, the Bible as well as Godspell. Um it's interesting. I would be curious about, you know, what do our Buddhist friends think? What do our Muslim friends think? Um have any of them. And also just fascinating to hear if we've got any Buddhist listeners. I would be well into that. Um Taoist as well.

[49:05] Jimi: Yeah. That's another one. Whatever, whatever, you know, our trekkies out there, whatever your religion is, um, let us know what you think of Godspell.

[49:15] Tommy: Absolutely, yeah. Because it's do you know what I mean? It's just it's it's always interesting to hear because you know, I can only imagine say if I were Muslim, going to see something, um I don't know, maybe not, but like, you know, go because it's because it is it's it's so difficult with Godspell, because I was gonna say because it is so religious, right? Because it is so religious, um, you kind of feel like you're going to church in some ways, do you know what I mean? But it's not preachy, but it's it's done in a very traditional, ah, but also not, oh my god, I just don't even know how to do it. It's really difficult to describe, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[49:52] Jimi: So enigmatic. But basically, I'm trying to say that like you know, here's it would be like going into the church of you know, another religion.

[49:59] Tommy: Another faith, yeah. And there's all this, like, I bet you parts of it are like that too, but I don't know. I don't want to assume.

[50:06] Jimi: Um because exactly I knew I knew all the secrets going in. Um, you know, other people don't.

[50:11] Tommy: Totally.

[50:17] Jimi: Um, but then you know, obviously, a lot of religion follows similar paths, so they might see parts of their own stories in Godspell.

[50:27] Tommy: Yeah, you know, yeah. Um fascinating.

[50:30] Jimi: Yeah. So let us know. Reddit's there for a reason, guys.

[51:01] Tommy: It's so interesting.

[51:03] Jimi: So it was my introduction to Godspell. I didn't, it wasn't on my radar till that came about.

[51:07] Tommy: Okay.

[51:08] Jimi: And I was like, this is fascinating. I'd known about Day by Day because of Hey Mr. Producer, because that's how I know any song in Musical Theatre.

[51:16] Tommy: But I just always thought because it was really interesting, actually, the Day by Day staging in Hey Mr. Producer. I don't know if this was any of the London staging or not, but it's just basically like 40 white people of all shapes and sizes wearing really bright, colourful shirts, singing Day by Day, which is this just sounds like him.

[51:35] Jimi: So I just thought it was like a church group that came along.

[51:37] Tommy: Yeah.

[51:38] Jimi: And didn't really realise it was from a musical. Where's the story arc? Where's my, you know?

[51:44] Tommy: Exactly.

[51:49] Jimi: Um so that was, you know, I don't count that as my first experience of Godspell. So when it got revived in 2011, um that was that was my first big hitter, and I was so fascinated by it because I was like, this is crazy. They've got trampolines on the stage, there's rain coming down in the middle of the stage, you know, it's in the round, and it's a Broadway show, like what's going on here?

[52:10] Tommy: Yeah, um, so I was totally just like it, you know, question question mark on that.

[52:15] Jimi: Then the cast recording came out, um, and I was like, how.

[52:20] Tommy: Yeah, do you know what I mean?

[52:22] Jimi: I was like, hook, line and sinker.

[52:24] Tommy: Yeah, it's you know, I mean, Lindsay Sterling had me in the palm of her vocal chords.

[52:30] Jimi: Um and it was it was really gay. Um the production that I saw, the amateur production I saw by a group called FCT, shout out to FCT, um they their director like emailed back and forth with Stephen Schwartz because he was like, I want to get the revival orchestration, so I want to get that version.

[52:54] Tommy: Yeah, because that's exciting.

[52:56] Jimi: Um so that's the version I've seen, not by Broadway, right? But by a group of children.

[53:02] Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[53:04] Jimi: Um basically my point being it was very I loved it, I absolutely adored it. Um and then I go and I find out more about Godspell and what Godspell is, the kind of origins of it, what it is, and this idea of it being a tribe musical and accessible, you know, accessible, blah blah blah blah blah.

[53:26] Tommy: And I realize kind of how far removed almost uh this 2011 version is from the original.

[53:35] Jimi: Yes.

[53:36] Tommy: That's my point. Discuss.

[53:38] Jimi: The I mean it speaks a little bit to our other points too, but this is a musical.

[53:44] Tommy: So um I watched the Victor Garber movie um with my boyfriend this morning.

[53:51] Jimi: Rather, I watched it while he played Zelda on the Switch.

[53:54] Tommy: Um but looking up from time to time, and the other movies I've made him watch for this podcast have been Hair and The Wiz.

[54:02] Jimi: Um my god, so you've watched the same movie three times.

[54:06] Tommy: Basically, um and he said to like it starts out in like Victor Garber appears in just his underwear, and he's Jesus and he's got weird clown makeup on.

[54:15] Jimi: Yeah, he was like He's cute when he's young though, right? He's kind of weird looking.

[54:19] Tommy: Um I think he's kind of cute, but cool. If you if if you've no older Victor Garber and then you see younger Victor Garber, it's very confusing.

[54:26] Jimi: Um but he he was like, This I don't know if I like this.

[54:26] Tommy: No, wait.

[54:26] Jimi: I don't know if I don't like this, or I just don't like the 70s.

[54:36] Tommy: I think I might not like the 70s.

[54:39] Jimi: And I love it.

[54:41] Tommy: It's really true. You watch part of this musical and it's weird in the same way that Hair and The Wiz is weird in the movie versions.

[54:48] Jimi: Um but with Godspell, as opposed to something like Hair or The Wiz, Godspell is only feel 70s because the first productions were in the 70s.

[54:57] Tommy: And so contemporary productions, I think should be done contemporarily.

[55:04] Jimi: Nothing that feels 70s or of any other time period should be held on to as, you know, sacrosanct, as like this must stay.

[55:15] Jimi: Um we've it should feel like it's taking place right now, and do what like I hope contemporary productions, you know, use technology or you know, phones or tablets or whatever. Like that's how this show should feel.

[55:35] Tommy: Um yeah, no, I I I do agree with you. Um but I think the thing that because it's stuff I've read in a couple of reviews and things I've read of the 2011 production is that it's saying that because mostly mostly with the parables, sometimes with the music.

[55:51] Jimi: Yeah, um because they're so flashy and gimmicky, you lose sense of you start to you're starting to lose sense of what it's about, like this idea of the heart.

[56:05] Tommy: I guess that's kind of true. That's that's an interesting proposition.

[56:08] Jimi: Yeah. Right, because the the the 2011 version is really crazy.

[56:14] Tommy: Like it's really, really crazy, and there's lots of you know, there's like a kind of game show like section with Telly Long.

[56:20] Jimi: Uh-huh.

[56:21] Tommy: Um, and you know, you're kind of you you get swept up in all the audience participation and yeah, the trampolines and and everything like you know, the glitter bombs, right?

[56:32] Jimi: And stuff like that, and it's you do lose sight of like it's a story about a group of people, yeah.

[56:38] Tommy: Do you know what I mean? It's it starts to peel away from that because it's like we want to bring you in, right?

[56:42] Jimi: We want to get you excited, yeah.

[56:45] Tommy: Um we uh again, we could talk about this forever because that's perfectly fine.

[56:51] Jimi: Right. Do you know what I mean? That is a complete stylistic choice, yeah, and it works because you have the time of your life watching it.

[56:58] Tommy: It is like watching it's like watching a cirque du Soleil show or something like that.

[57:01] Jimi: Yeah, exactly. With really great music, um but it's funny because it's it's very different from the off, you know.

[57:10] Tommy: I mean, we're back in the off-Broadway days where I mean I don't all for the best was a cakewalk, and that's what we were doing.

[57:16] Jimi: Exactly. But I don't know if I would I I feel like the most this is one of the things I enjoyed a lot about the musical or about the movie, um, is that it just kind of takes place on the streets of New York.

[57:27] Tommy: Um, and I feel like Godspell is a musical that is best performed on a street corner, on a sidewalk, and like with all with only those trappings.

[57:38] Jimi: Can you pull it out of the trunk you brought?

[57:40] Tommy: Great. If not, doesn't belong in the show.

[57:42] Jimi: Um, totally. And it that's like it can be. Do you know what I mean?

[57:47] Tommy: But like, for example, there is there's you know, there's a section, I think it's in um Lindsay Mendez's uh Bless the Lord, Bless the Lord.

[57:54] Jimi: Uh huh.

[57:55] Tommy: Um, where I think, as far as I can remember, the staging is like they pull out a chest and they just kind of bring stuff out of the chest and it's like beads and stuff like that, and they kind of dress each other with it.

[58:07] Jimi: So I think there is still that kind of like homegrown vibe there.

[58:10] Tommy: Yeah.

[58:11] Jimi: And it you know, it's definitely peppers through and you know, and a number like all good gifts, like you can't escape the the like uh yeah, yeah, the kind of spirituality and that that kind of wholesome feeling.

[58:22] Tommy: Yeah, like the ten there's a tenderness built in there that like you know, you can't pull out the confetti guns for that kind of song.

[58:29] Jimi: Right, exact exactly. Um so uh I think it definitely it's it's still there, so I don't fully agree with these reviews who are saying it's it's Godspell but not as we know it because I think the content is just so correct.

[58:47] Tommy: Yeah.

[58:48] Jimi: Do you know what I mean? That I think the the thing that you would do wrong in God's spell is to make it more Bible specific.

[58:57] Tommy: Yes.

[58:57] Jimi: Yeah.

[58:58] Tommy: I think I think that would detract the thing you would do wrong in God's Spell is like giving Jesus a shirt that says Jesus on it.

[59:04] Jimi: Is like you know, the thing you would do wrong in God's spell is like performing it in the front of the of a church, maybe.

[59:13] Tommy: Um you know, d depending.

[59:16] Jimi: Um making it feel more sacred and religious would get rid of the hmm like the the feeling of it all, the intent of it all, the success of it all.

[59:31] Tommy: I think it would be unsuccessful.

[59:32] Jimi: I don't think it would be as successful, you know, perform it outside the church.

[59:37] Tommy: Like you know, do it do it in the parking lot.

[59:39] Jimi: Um Yeah, totally, and that would l I would love that.

[59:42] Tommy: Yeah, Jan would be so into it.

[59:43] Jimi: Oh yeah, God's bell performed in the church parking lot, I would stop and watch.

[59:46] Tommy: Like, exactly. Do you know what?

[59:48] Jimi: Like, think about it.

[59:48] Tommy: It's the kind of show that I would just go and see.

[59:50] Jimi: Yeah.

[59:50] Tommy: Like I wouldn't ever be like, oh god, what's this gonna be like? They're gonna get this wrong, how inappropriate.

[59:55] Jimi: Right.

[59:56] Tommy: Any age, yeah, any ability can nail this.

[1:00:00] Jimi: Yes.

[1:00:00] Tommy: You know?

[1:00:01] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:00:01] Tommy: That's great.

[1:00:02] Jimi: Again, n very few shows that I have that ability.

[1:00:06] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:00:07] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:00:46] Tommy: So what's your favorite song from the show?

[1:00:48] Jimi: Or your top three.

[1:00:49] Tommy: Oh boy.

[1:00:50] Jimi: Um.

[1:00:53] Tommy: That's a great question.

[1:00:54] Jimi: I always enjoy I love Turnback Oh Man.

[1:00:57] Tommy: Um you know Wicked.

[1:01:03] Jimi: God.

[1:01:03] Tommy: For the first time I'm feeling wicked.

[1:01:04] Jimi: I I had never listened to the 2011 revival recording until prepping for this, and that was the only moment.

[1:01:09] Tommy: Are you kidding?

[1:01:09] Jimi: Oh my god, are you kidding?

[1:01:10] Tommy: No, my I I grew up on the 2001 tour recording.

[1:01:13] Jimi: Um I mean, great.

[1:01:14] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:01:15] Jimi: But but that's so interesting.

[1:01:16] Tommy: Yeah, because I it was over and done with by the time that version had happened in my world.

[1:01:22] Jimi: So I had no reason to listen to another one.

[1:01:24] Tommy: Um But wait.

[1:01:25] Jimi: Wait, wait, wait.

[1:01:27] Tommy: What did you think of it?

[1:01:28] Jimi: I liked it.

[1:01:29] Tommy: I thought it was intra because the twenty oh one tour is burned in my mind so well, um, it was fascinating to hear just everything be different.

[1:01:40] Jimi: Everything's different.

[1:01:41] Tommy: Every single thing's different.

[1:01:43] Jimi: Um I very much enjoyed it, except for the wicked joke.

[1:01:46] Tommy: Um but yeah.

[1:01:47] Jimi: Turn back oh man.

[1:01:48] Tommy: Um I love every single recording I hear of all for the best.

[1:01:53] Jimi: That's that's my kind of song, like a soft shoe vaudeville take.

[1:01:57] Tommy: Oh yes, please.

[1:01:59] Jimi: Um and I think I would I would completely sorry to interrupt you, but I would completely agree with you that every recording nails all for the best in their own way.

[1:02:06] Tommy: Whether it's through a little like something that I'm on you know, like through a radio or whatever, or whether it's you know, the kind of I don't know, kinda low-key uh version with the ukulele in the 2011.

[1:02:19] Jimi: But and like I don't the uh I how do you take a speck of sawdust out of your eye when all the time there's a great plank in your own?

[1:02:27] Tommy: I don't know, how do you take a speck of danger?

[1:02:28] Jimi: I don't know, how do you take a thing about that on your eyes?

[1:02:31] Tommy: So funny to me in a really difficult to explain way.

[1:02:35] Jimi: Like it's your humor.

[1:02:37] Tommy: Oh, it's so like that is so that is Tommy.

[1:02:40] Jimi: But it's not it's not funny.

[1:02:42] Tommy: It's not a joke.

[1:02:43] Jimi: It's not funny.

[1:02:43] Tommy: There's no pun what did I promise you an answer to the question?

[1:02:46] Jimi: Ha ha like they're they're using like a campy vaudeville stereotype of a joke to give you this like, you know, treat others as you want to be treated yourselves.

[1:02:59] Tommy: Oh, treat others like it doesn't make any sense, and I think it's hilarious.

[1:03:03] Jimi: And I usually I can like explain myself my the humor in my mind.

[1:03:07] Tommy: This is one of those ones where I'm like, this is just funny to me.

[1:03:10] Jimi: It's just it's funny when it happens, and I don't know why.

[1:03:13] Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

[1:03:14] Jimi: You just laugh, you're just like, this is kill.

[1:03:16] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:03:16] Jimi: Sing fast now.

[1:03:17] Tommy: Yeah, I I think I think All for the Best might be my favorite song in the show.

[1:03:21] Jimi: Um I don't I don't I don't really like Day by Day.

[1:03:27] Tommy: Um yeah, I I would agree.

[1:03:29] Jimi: I think Day by Day is the the out of all of them, yeah, it feels the most okay.

[1:03:34] Tommy: You've said this 4,000 times and it's it's the most repetitive, I would guess out of all of that.

[1:03:42] Jimi: It's crazy, but like Day by Day is the song that you know made it out of the musical.

[1:03:46] Tommy: Like I read somewhere, I don't know if this is true, that Day by Day was the last musical theater song done by a musical that got into the charts.

[1:03:56] Jimi: I would believe that.

[1:03:56] Tommy: I think oh, I might have this number wrong, but I think it hit 13 on the on the charts, and it it rose quickly enough, but that by the time they adapted the off-Broadway play into the movie, they they do a mega mix of day by day, like the finale starts with the finale and then they sing day by day because they know this is the song that people know.

[1:04:17] Jimi: Um so it got it got popular fast.

[1:04:20] Tommy: Um strange.

[1:04:22] Jimi: Yeah, you know, I would want to see I bet you I bet you that statistic was true, but Hamilton has hit the charts since then.

[1:04:30] Tommy: Um true.

[1:04:31] Jimi: So I bet you that has changed.

[1:04:34] Tommy: Yeah, I'd be interested.

[1:04:35] Jimi: But I wonder if just like track.

[1:04:37] Tommy: Yeah, I don't know.

[1:04:37] Jimi: Just individual track.

[1:04:38] Tommy: Yeah, I don't know.

[1:04:39] Jimi: I don't understand the billboard charts anyway.

[1:04:41] Tommy: So someone someone in the Reddit can explain that to us.

[1:04:44] Jimi: Thank you very much.

[1:04:45] Tommy: Um what's what's your number three?

[1:04:47] Jimi: What's my number three?

[1:04:51] Tommy: You know, it might be it might be on the willows.

[1:04:56] Jimi: Um a lovely choice, an interesting one to pick.

[1:05:00] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:05:00] Jimi: And and like in in its fullest realization, like on the willows makes me feel a thing.

[1:05:08] Tommy: Um makes like makes me a jaded homosexual ex-religionist feel bad for Judas and Jesus and the apostles.

[1:05:18] Jimi: Like it's it's pretty good.

[1:05:21] Tommy: It it serves its purpose well.

[1:05:23] Jimi: It's so beautiful.

[1:05:24] Tommy: And when it's staged as well, it's it's all thick and I love it.

[1:05:30] Jimi: Um traditionally, I my version didn't do this, but in research taught me that that's actually normally sung by the band.

[1:05:39] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:05:39] Jimi: It's Judas and the it's very um uh outside of the story.

[1:05:44] Tommy: It it is it is like it is underscoring with vocals.

[1:05:48] Jimi: Um yeah, that's it. Schwartz he talks about it being more like movie underscoring because he doesn't want the actors to be out of the the thought of saying goodbye.

[1:05:57] Tommy: And it's um you know, it is one of the things that I think bothers me about this musical, z structure-wise.

[1:06:02] Jimi: Um I think on the willows is great and it's beautiful and it's wonderful, and it's metaphorical.

[1:06:06] Tommy: You know, what are the willows?

[1:06:07] Jimi: Why are we on the willows?

[1:06:08] Tommy: Like the you know, it makes me think things and feel things, and then we hit the finale, which is variously moving, but then we hit the interminable, oh god, I'm dying, and it happens forever, and then it happens again.

[1:06:26] Jimi: Oh god, and like god, yes, you're dead.

[1:06:29] Tommy: I get it.

[1:06:29] Jimi: Like, we're not Oh, I I don't love it really.

[1:06:32] Tommy: Oh, it goes on really heartbreaking.

[1:06:34] Jimi: I really again though, my int my um introduction to it was Hunter Parrish, and I gotta give my hat off to Hunter Parrish because I think he's a beautiful vocalist.

[1:06:43] Tommy: It's it's performed well.

[1:06:44] Jimi: I think I don't know if I'm conflating in my mind, but it's one of those moments in uh in any kind of show.

[1:06:51] Tommy: I feel the same way about uh Once on This Island, um where oh what's her name uh you know she she is kicked out of the house and then she dies and she turned into a tree um and it's one of those lines where like I I get where you're going in the script, but I want you to imagine that you're performing this for an audience.

[1:07:15] Jimi: Like people are gonna laugh at that.

[1:07:18] Tommy: It's not supposed to be funny, but people are gonna laugh at that the way you deliver that.

[1:07:23] Jimi: I feel the same with like oh god, I'm dying is like I can hear the baby crying in the background.

[1:07:28] Tommy: Like Yeah, and that but also that oh god, I'm dead.

[1:07:31] Jimi: I'm sure someone laughed at that.

[1:07:33] Tommy: Or like the you know all the people going like you know, the audience noises start becoming more apparent.

[1:07:39] Jimi: Um that's when the cell phone is the phone ringing um if I were not myself, right?

[1:07:44] Tommy: But uh but like where that one you've built me up to this wholly solemn moment in Great Comet, our contractually obligated mentioning of it.

[1:07:52] Jimi: Um in the finale here, it's it's laid on too thick for me.

[1:07:59] Tommy: One okay, okay one is enough.

[1:08:01] Jimi: Three or four, too many.

[1:08:03] Tommy: Yeah, cool.

[1:08:05] Jimi: Cool.

[1:08:06] Tommy: Um my favorites?

[1:08:08] Jimi: Yes, absolutely.

[1:08:09] Tommy: So last week we talked about your favorite song in musical theater.

[1:08:13] Jimi: It's yours in here being Golden Palace.

[1:08:16] Tommy: I think one of I'm not ready to commit yet.

[1:08:19] Jimi: Okay.

[1:08:20] Tommy: I'm Chandler Bing.

[1:08:21] Jimi: Naturally.

[1:08:23] Tommy: One of mine is Beautiful City.

[1:08:26] Jimi: Really?

[1:08:27] Tommy: Absolutely.

[1:08:30] Jimi: I think it's kinda perfect.

[1:08:34] Tommy: Okay.

[1:08:35] Jimi: Tell me tell me more.

[1:08:38] Tommy: So well, the story of Beautiful City.

[1:08:41] Jimi: So Beautiful City, you won't find on the off-Broadway recording because it didn't exist at that point.

[1:08:46] Tommy: Yes.

[1:08:49] Jimi: And Schwartz he wrote it, didn't really like it.

[1:08:54] Tommy: He thought it was a bit too goopy.

[1:08:56] Jimi: He thought it was a bit too like, you know, let's build this beautiful city kind of thing.

[1:09:09] Jimi: Uh-huh.

[1:09:10] Tommy: Um, and he redrafted it for that.

[1:09:15] Jimi: Okay.

[1:09:16] Tommy: Um, and it got taken away.

[1:09:21] Jimi: Uh huh.

[1:09:21] Tommy: Sorry, the production didn't happen.

[1:09:23] Jimi: Um, but these new lyrics stood and he loved them a lot more.

[1:09:26] Tommy: Okay.

[1:09:27] Jimi: So I think the first time that it existed might have been 2001.

[1:09:32] Tommy: Uh, yellow album.

[1:09:35] Jimi: I think it might be because it was written again in 1994.

[1:09:38] Tommy: I'm trying. It might have done it might have done London. I can't even remember. Did it make the film though?

[1:09:44] Jimi: Yeah, it's in the film.

[1:09:45] Tommy: Is it?

[1:09:45] Jimi: Okay.

[1:09:46] Tommy: But so the first time it made it on stage would have been 2001.

[1:09:49] Jimi: First time it made it on stage with this in this new version, this new adaptation.

[1:09:51] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:09:52] Jimi: And his new incarnation, sorry, um, was 2001.

[1:09:57] Tommy: Um, so in 2001, this might be why, this might be why you don't you can't really see my point as much.

[1:10:03] Jimi: Um, because 2001 is extremely different from 2011.

[1:10:10] Tommy: Yes, it is, right?

[1:10:11] Jimi: They're chalk and cheese.

[1:10:12] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:10:12] Jimi: Um, the 2001 version is kind of gospely and fun and vibrant and you know, like we can build a beautiful city.

[1:10:22] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:10:23] Jimi: Yeah, we can.

[1:10:24] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:10:24] Jimi: Um, 2011 is like it's much more low key, it's very honest.

[1:10:32] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:10:33] Jimi: Um, and it's very somber.

[1:10:36] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:10:37] Jimi: Not it's not sad.

[1:10:38] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:10:39] Jimi: Because it is a song of such hope.

[1:10:41] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:10:42] Jimi: But it's very somber and it just like hits me right right here.

[1:10:47] Tommy: Um, and I adore it. I absolutely adore it.

[1:10:50] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:10:50] Tommy: Um, and just from its message, do you know what I mean? Like, there's no song that encapsulates what we need in this era that we live in right now.

[1:11:01] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:11:02] Tommy: Um, then beautiful city.

[1:11:04] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:11:04] Tommy: Um, that's absolutely true. It's very, I mean, it is a very simple, honest song in its lyricism.

[1:11:11] Jimi: Um, I find that, yeah, and that I think that's it. Is it it's not doing anything special. There's no, oh, look at these amazing rhymes, blah blah blah blah.

[1:11:19] Tommy: I don't know. There's just something about it. I'm like, yeah. It is correct.

[1:11:23] Jimi: I would say that that progression. Um, Alas for You by my side, beautiful city. Um, is about the closest this show gets to like a linear plot.

[1:11:36] Tommy: Um, right, okay.

[1:11:38] Jimi: Uh huh. Like I mean, I do kind of see what you're doing. Maybe excluding just the whole actual passion of the Christ, which actually doesn't take that long.

[1:11:45] Tommy: Um, which is basically it's like on the willows and the finale, and that's it.

[1:11:49] Jimi: Um, but like the, the what is it? Oh god, my Catholic teachings are trying to come back to me.

[1:11:55] Tommy: Overturning the tables in the temple.

[1:11:57] Jimi: Yes, um, like that whole progression, he’m eight. Yesus in that moment, and like they like they have character that is from the Bible at that time, and it's not the parables being told by whoever, it is the life and times of Jesus Christ.

[1:12:15] Tommy: Um, and so you know, I wonder if that's what helps it stick out of this musical.

[1:12:22] Jimi: Well, I think that's the thing is again another really interesting thing about Beautiful City, yeah, is it can go anywhere you want.

[1:12:28] Tommy: Yeah, um, it's literally like here's an optional song, yeah. It's quite nice.

[1:12:32] Jimi: Yeah, put it in however you so desire that's true. What musical gives you that? You know what I mean? Like it will go anywhere.

[1:12:36] Tommy: And so, you know, that's a really interesting.

[1:12:41] Jimi: It wasn't a London production, it was, it was 94.

[1:12:43] Tommy: Okay.

[1:12:44] Jimi: Um, the 94 cast put it before the finale.

[1:12:48] Tommy: Okay.

[1:12:50] Jimi: So it you know, in the way that in 2011 they reprise it.

[1:12:55] Tommy: Yes, before they get into the long live God and pre-Pary reprieve.

[1:13:00] Jimi: It is also bring into the what like brings us back up from the sadness of Jesus' death.

[1:13:05] Tommy: Exactly, exactly. And it's like, because to me, beautiful city is the message of the whole show, is that we can build a beautiful city, not a city of angels, yeah, a city of Murray.

[1:13:14] Jimi: You know, it's it's together. It's almost like beautiful city is the better version of day by day.

[1:13:19] Tommy: Um, like if Beautiful City as written was when the in the original, I bet you it would have been number 13 on the charts and not day by day.

[1:13:27] Jimi: Um, I know I'd be so interested to know that actually, because it it because it can move around, it really does kind of stand alone.

[1:13:33] Tommy: It's a solo, yeah.

[1:13:34] Jimi: Um, it's it's not preachy, yeah.

[1:13:38] Tommy: It you know, I mean it c it could really just be a pop song.

[1:13:41] Jimi: Yeah, um, but I really love the way that 2011 treats it. I think it's beautiful and it it's potentially one of my favorites of all time.

[1:13:50] Tommy: Um, other favourites because we only give a three. Um, Babbel.

[1:13:56] Jimi: Um, you know that's high up there too.

[1:13:58] Tommy: I love Babel. What's your favorite, what's your favorite interpretation of Babbel? Because they are so different.

[1:14:03] Jimi: I know. I couldn't tell you.

[1:14:05] Tommy: Yeah, I couldn't tell.

[1:14:06] Jimi: The 80s child of me.

[1:14:07] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:14:08] Jimi: And the Electro Child of Me loves 2001.

[1:14:11] Tommy: Um, the ninety-four ain't too bad.

[1:14:14] Jimi: It's not, it's it's like there's bits of ninety-four because it's so cheap that make me love it.

[1:14:20] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:14:20] Jimi: Um, but it's like two thousand and one do a better ninety-four, yeah.

[1:14:25] Tommy: Yeah, that does.

[1:14:26] Jimi: Um, so I love that, but the technical prowess and master rate of two thousand eleven.

[1:14:34] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:14:36] Jimi: Like when you break apart what they're doing, uh-huh.

[1:14:41] Tommy: Is the opening of their show.

[1:14:43] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:14:43] Tommy: Well, and like it what a what a great you know, we've s I've said before, the first lines of your show are as important as the title.

[1:14:50] Jimi: Um, and the whole the whole progression, I mean depending upon how you do it, but of the like in my mind it's the 2001 version where it's like the home and it's like I am God, blah blah blah blah.

[1:15:05] Tommy: Yeah, and then hello.

[1:15:07] Jimi: And we reach the first with nothing underneath that honest, honest, like I honor and love you, but I shall obey God rather than you, and while I have life and strength, I shall never stray from the practice and teaching of philosophy.

[1:15:20] Tommy: Like, I don't I don't memorize a lot of things by heart.

[1:15:22] Jimi: Um and that one sticks with me.

[1:15:25] Tommy: And exactly. It really sets up.

[1:15:29] Jimi: You see, I wonder if this is why it feels more religious to me.

[1:15:33] Tommy: Um in the in religious in the telling of the life and times of Jesus Christ.

[1:15:38] Jimi: Um, the Tower of Babel, with all the characters we mentioned in our quiz question, this is where we see them all, um, in it sets up like maybe three different contexts for me.

[1:15:51] Tommy: Um, the first is like the general idea of all this babble in anyone's life, is that they're like you're hearing all these things and you have all sorts of different opinions, and we're analyzing and talking about our existence on earth.

[1:16:06] Jimi: How on you know, how are we going to make sense of what it is to be person?

[1:16:12] Tommy: Um and like w so high it climbs up the ivory tower of Babel, everyone has an opinion on this.

[1:16:18] Jimi: Um then the second level is the characters you see in it, depending upon the production, of these philosophers from time immemorial um talking about their opinions on the thing.

[1:16:30] Tommy: And so in a contemporary context, what is, you know, how do you make sense of all of these specific messages telling you person what you should believe.

[1:16:42] Jimi: Um but then the last one, and I think this is really important, it also sets up what Earth, what humanity was like when the historical figure Jesus came into being.

[1:16:56] Tommy: It was also very much a hotbed of philosophy and argument and what is existence and is there an afterlife and is there a god and how do we do this?

[1:17:07] Jimi: And you know, preachers and philosophers and scam artists were at dime a dozen.

[1:17:13] Tommy: Um and so it sets that up too, and then into this enters the Jesus character to be like, hey hey, just love each other.

[1:17:24] Jimi: It's all chill, man.

[1:17:26] Tommy: That's it.

[1:17:27] Jimi: Just be nice to each other.

[1:17:29] Tommy: That's it.

[1:17:29] Jimi: Don't don't overthink it. Just be nice.

[1:17:33] Tommy: Um and it it's a it's a very powerful setup.

[1:17:37] Jimi: Absolutely.

[1:17:38] Tommy: Absolutely.

[1:17:39] Jimi: Um, I think because so, and again, big shout out to FCT.

[1:17:44] Tommy: SCT, the kid, like we're talking kids here.

[1:17:46] Jimi: Um, I think the age limit starts at eight years old, and you can go up to 21.

[1:17:51] Tommy: Okay, right?

[1:17:52] Jimi: Um, they did 2011, Terror of Babel.

[1:17:57] Tommy: Wow.

[1:17:58] Jimi: I'm like That's impressive. I don't know if I've got that in me.

[1:18:02] Tommy: I'm here, you know, a group of amazingly talented kids doing it.

[1:18:06] Jimi: So master track them.

[1:18:07] Tommy: But I think what one of the things is it just overwhelms you so much because you're just like especially because they end with a card.

[1:18:13] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:18:14] Tommy: Oh I mean you're just like, oh, and then so there's a chauffeur, and you're like, okay, I'm well what's happening.

[1:18:23] Jimi: Do you know what I mean?

[1:18:23] Tommy: So that that idea of like here's a bunch of philosophers being simplified by Jesus doesn't really fit.

[1:18:29] Jimi: Um but I love it.

[1:18:31] Tommy: Yeah, I really, really love it.

[1:18:33] Jimi: Um number three, we won't labor the point for me, but just in case you're interested, um, would either be oh can't decide between By My Side or Beseech Thee.

[1:18:46] Tommy: Gonna go for by my side.

[1:18:48] Jimi: Okay.

[1:18:49] Tommy: I think that that balances out your top three well.

[1:18:52] Jimi: Excellent. Thank you very much.

[1:18:54] Tommy: Um so there you go. That's that's our songs. What are your favorites, guys? Let us know.

[1:18:59] Jimi: Cause that can it's that kind of cast recording, isn't it? Where you could like any of them.

[1:19:03] Tommy: Yeah, absolutely.

[1:19:04] Jimi: Any of them can be your favorite. If you know, or if you can tell us uh tell us your favorite song and the recording, because it's one of the few cases where that's kind of important.

[1:19:12] Tommy: And if you're the kind of person who was like me for quite some time in life and only had listened to one cast recording of this musical, yeah, go out there, pick up any other one. You'll be fascinated.

[1:19:23] Jimi: And like I highly recommend even just the 2001 and the 2011 recording. Go back and forth. Play track one, play track one, play track two, play track two, and listen to how different they are.

[1:19:34] Tommy: Once you've fallen in love with both of them, then go listen to off Broadway just for a laugh.

[1:19:39] Jimi: Yeah, because it's so different. It's just so different.

[1:19:41] Tommy: I would you know if people are looking for this is gonna be the question.

[1:19:45] Jimi: What what's the link we're gonna put in the show notes to which cast recording?

[1:19:50] Tommy: Your trust is all but shattered, then your faith is all but killed.

[1:20:01] Jimi: You can give up better and better, or you can slowly start to build a beautiful city.

[1:20:20] Tommy: Yes, we can.

[1:20:23] Jimi: Yes, we can.

[1:20:26] Tommy: We can build a beautiful city, not a city of angels, finally a city of men.

[1:20:51] Jimi: A city of Mayh.

[1:21:03] Tommy: Wow.

[1:21:04] Jimi: It's you.

[1:21:05] Tommy: Alright.

[1:21:05] Jimi: That was Godspell.

[1:21:08] Tommy: It was that was Godspell.

[1:21:10] Jimi: I really enjoyed that, Tom. That was really fun.

[1:21:11] Tommy: I I don't I don't enjoy them all, but I I love I feel kind of behooved.

[1:21:16] Jimi: Yeah, it's it's a nice it's a it's a nice little musical.

[1:21:16] Tommy: It's a nice little musical.

[1:21:21] Jimi: Totally.

[1:21:22] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:21:22] Jimi: Totally.

[1:21:23] Tommy: Um, but what are we gonna talk about next?

[1:21:26] Jimi: Well, I can't tell you, but I do have a quiz question.

[1:21:28] Tommy: Oh, okay. I love quizzes.

[1:21:31] Jimi: You ready?

[1:21:32] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:21:33] Jimi: In the song Beautiful City from Godspell lies the title of our next musical. What show could it be?

[1:21:43] Tommy: Pale the musical.

[1:21:44] Jimi: That's it.

[1:21:45] Tommy: Pale.

[1:21:45] Jimi: That's it.

[1:21:46] Tommy: Oh, I spoiled.

[1:21:47] Jimi: Oh no!

[1:21:48] Tommy: Jimmy!

[1:21:49] Jimi: Now everyone's gonna know we're talking about Pale the Musical.

[1:21:54] Tommy: It's probably out there. It's about a tiny boy from Alaska who's never seen the sun. He's got red hair as well.

[1:22:02] Jimi: Um if you would like to say hello, please do.

[1:22:07] Tommy: Um my name on Twitter is Asin Hendrix, and it's the exact same on YouTube.

[1:22:11] Jimi: And I'm musical mash on Twitter and Musical Theatre Mash on YouTube.

[1:22:15] Tommy: And you can check out our show Twitter, Jim and Tomic.

[1:22:19] Jimi: Uh or you can go to our website, Jim and Tomic.com, which has a link to the Reddit discussion.

[1:22:23] Tommy: Exactly.

[1:22:24] Jimi: Um we would also love you to tell your friends all about our little podcast over here.

[1:22:30] Tommy: That would be really nice.

[1:22:31] Jimi: Woo!

[1:22:32] Tommy: And we shall see you next Wednesday.

[1:22:36] Jimi: Goodbye.

[1:22:46] Tommy: Ow, ow.

[1:22:47] Jimi: What you do?

[1:22:49] Tommy: I just elbowed a box.

[1:22:50] Jimi: Don't do that.