Happy Hour #81: Podcast for the Recently Deceased - 'Beetlejuice'

This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Tommy: Welcome to Jim and Tomic's... no.

[0:05] Jimi: I don't know why I bailed on that one.

[0:06] Tommy: I was like, he's trying something new, let's go with this.

[0:10] Jimi: Oh man.

[0:14] Tommy: Welcome to Jim and Tomic's Musical Theatre Happy Hour. I'm Tommy.

[0:17] Jimi: And I'm Jimi, and this is the only musical theatre podcast with theatre wings...

[0:22] Tommy: And Sazerac slings.

[0:24] Jimi: Here, we take apart your favourite shows, muddle them together with a shot of buffoonery, and pour you a refreshing glass of musical theatre conversation.

[0:31] Tommy: Jimi, what are you drinking today?

[0:33] Jimi: Today, I'm drinking Beetlejuice.

[0:38] Tommy: Listen, I thought for a while, and I was like, look, there's an obvious thing here, it's in the title, you just have to say it.

[0:46] Jimi: But depending upon how you spell it, it's not in the title.

[0:50] Tommy: No, I'm spelling it the phonetic way.

[0:53] Jimi: I...

[0:55] Tommy: Excellent. You've got a quiz question for us, because no one knows what musical we've been talking about.

[0:59] Jimi: I couldn't possibly guess.

[1:02] Tommy: Well, let's find out, let's pull back the curtain. Sammy Davis Jr. was originally slated to originate...

[1:09] Jimi: I don't like that double original, we should have picked up on that.

[1:11] Tommy: Was originally slated to originate this role in its pre-musical incarnation. Who knows if the show would have been such a runaway success, were it more Rat Pack in style.

[1:24] Jimi: Tommy, what could that possibly be?

[1:27] Tommy: Uh, probably the one and only, Beetlejuice.

[1:33] ♪ Musical number: "The Whole Being Dead Thing" — performed by Alex Brightman ♪

[2:18] Tommy: Did you know, I learned this, my boyfriend thought this up while we were watching the movie the other night. Beetlejuice, originally spelled like the star, could be mispronounced Beetlegeist, which rhymes with Edelweiss, which then naturally leads into the song.

[2:39] Jimi: Beetlegeist, anyway.

[2:42] Tommy: That's one of those jokes.

[2:45] Jimi: Really, really funny to me at like 10 o'clock at night.

[2:47] Tommy: Really, really funny ones.

[2:48] Jimi: Yeah, really, really funny ones.

[2:50] Tommy: Yeah, Beetlejuice, Tommy.

[2:52] Jimi: Current.

[2:53] Tommy: Current.

[2:54] Jimi: Fresh.

[2:54] Tommy: Closed, because we can only talk about shows that are closed.

[2:57] Jimi: RIP Beetlejuice.

[3:00] Tommy: Um, yeah, so hey, musical lyrics by Mr. Eddie Perfect of Australia fame.

[3:05] Jimi: Yes.

[3:06] Tommy: Who also wrote the other monster musical, King Kong.

[3:09] Jimi: And a book by Scott Brown and Anthony King, who are some comedy writers from TV.

[3:14] Tommy: And of course, based on the cult classic Michael Keaton, Tim Burton film of the late 80s.

[3:21] Jimi: Like one of the first big Tim Burton moments, right?

[3:24] Tommy: I mean, I would say it is.

[3:25] Jimi: That secured his style.

[3:26] Tommy: It was post Peewee's Big Adventure, but certainly the first time we see, certainly the first time we see like the Tim Burton stripes.

[3:34] Jimi: Hmm.

[3:35] Tommy: Back before it was a style and just when it was, uh, you know, a choice.

[3:40] Jimi: And we don't really do Peewee Herman over here. He's never really crossed the pond.

[3:44] Tommy: Oh, fascinating.

[3:45] Jimi: Yeah.

[3:45] Tommy: I think you would enjoy Peewee Herman's Big Adventure.

[3:48] Jimi: Great adventure. Grand day out. I don't know. It doesn't matter.

[3:52] Tommy: Yeah, I would love it.

[3:54] Jimi: Well, hey, the musical that it was adapted from opened up on Broadway after a Washington tryout in April 2019.

[4:02] Tommy: Had a fun little life and then closed.

[4:06] Jimi: Yes.

[4:08] Tommy: Well, it closed for maybe two reasons.

[4:11] Jimi: Yeah.

[4:11] Tommy: Or like had two closings. Who knows?

[4:14] Jimi: What a poor victim of happenstance.

[4:18] Tommy: Exactly. Exactly.

[4:19] Jimi: But it was due to close on the 6th of June.

[4:23] Tommy: Or transfer. We'll talk about it.

[4:26] Jimi: Or transfer. Yes.

[4:27] Tommy: TBD.

[4:30] Jimi: But hey, Beetlejuice. You want to talk us through it?

[4:32] Tommy: Sure. Beetlejuice is a bio-exorcist. He helps out recently dead Adam and Barbara deal with people who just moved into their house. Lydia's a goth teen. Eventually she can see Beetlejuice and then, I don't know, chaos ensues.

[4:46] Jimi: Yeah, that's rip-roaring.

[4:52] Tommy: The kind of linchpin of the story is Lydia's grief over her mum who's just recently died. And her father's kind of denial of that. And she kind of enlists Beetlejuice to kind of help her with that problem.

[5:09] Jimi: Yes.

[5:09] Tommy: And then in a bizarre and ham-fisted Act 2 raising of stakes, she also needs to get married to Beetlejuice.

[5:17] Jimi: She does at one point need to get married to Beetlejuice, yes.

[5:20] Tommy: Because he needs to become alive, which is a new thing.

[5:23] Jimi: Right, yes.

[5:23] Tommy: For a musical.

[5:24] Jimi: A new raising of stakes.

[5:27] Tommy: Well, I would say poorly explained, but no better explained than Beetlejuice's motivations in the movie.

[5:33] Jimi: Hey, we can't get into analysis in the introduction topic, so let's begin the episode.

[5:39] Tommy: Let's begin it right now.

[5:41] ♪ Musical number: "Dead Mom" — performed by Sophia Anne Caruso ♪

[6:09] Jimi: You know, I will say, and I think if you listen back, because we talked about Beetlejuice briefly in our Tony's episode from last year.

[6:17] Tommy: Yes, yes.

[6:18] Jimi: And I try to not be too cynical about shows that are currently open, because I think that's unfair to them. I will say since that time, I think I've come around a little bit to Beetlejuice.

[6:31] Tommy: I like portions of this show.

[6:34] Jimi: I think it's a good laugh, sure.

[6:36] Tommy: It's very funny.

[6:39] Jimi: The book is hilarious.

[6:41] Tommy: And it has some clever, I was thinking about this when I was re-listening to it maybe yesterday, and it was around the rhyme terracottery and pottery, which is, I think, clever, but awkward in a way that like Sondheim wouldn't write, but would appreciate.

[7:02] Jimi: Yeah, okay, that's cute.

[7:04] Tommy: Which I think is an interesting new trend that, I don't know, it's like the germ of a seed of an idea of this new trend of musical theatre, like forced rhymes that don't feel shoehorned.

[7:18] Jimi: Yeah, okay, I know what you mean by that. I know what you mean by that.

[7:20] Tommy: I would agree that I've kind of come more around to it. I think at the time, in Tony time, I was feeling very highbrow because Haley's Tone, and very anti-franchise adaptation.

[7:40] Jimi: But you kind of appreciate a thing for what it is when you study it. And I think that's kind of the journey I've gone on with Beetlejuice here. Because actually, I do want to just talk about the start, it as an adaptation of a film, and because really it's not the film.

[8:00] Tommy: No, it is the character of Beetlejuice.

[8:03] Jimi: Well, not even. Have you watched or did you grow up with the Beetlejuice animated series?

[8:10] Tommy: I actually did watch it, yeah.

[8:11] Jimi: Yeah, me too. And that was my first exposure to the Beetlejuice franchise before the movie.

[8:18] Tommy: Yeah.

[8:18] Jimi: Oh, right, okay. No, I saw the movie like far too young, and I was very scared by it when I was wee.

[8:23] Tommy: Sure, of course. Of course, as you would be.

[8:24] Jimi: But the animated series is such a rehashing of anything that the movie plot holds dear.

[8:33] Tommy: Totally.

[8:34] Jimi: Yeah, it's a buddy comedy.

[8:35] Tommy: Right.

[8:36] Jimi: And I think the musical takes inspiration from both, or just seems to have followed the same path that the animated series did down the adaptation rabbit hole.

[8:49] Tommy: Yeah, I would say so. I think it's just the film, like Beetlejuice is only in the film for like 20 minutes.

[8:54] Jimi: Yeah.

[8:55] Tommy: Yeah, I mean, which is famously a thing. But obviously for this, they've realized, hey, he's the interesting one here. Let's go into this a bit more.

[9:02] Jimi: And obviously, when you're taking something onto a stage for theatre, it's all about the storytelling. You want to delve into the characters and their story.

[9:14] Tommy: So yeah, I think they've been smart about this. And I think they've decided, hey, we need to find a story within this kind of playful craziness that is the film.

[9:24] Jimi: Right.

[9:26] Tommy: And yeah, I think that was really, really smart. And I think, actually, I think for the most part, they've done it pretty well.

[9:33] Jimi: Yeah, I think it's, well, I think they're lucky in that. They're very lucky that the thing they're adapting is Beetlejuice. For a couple of reasons. Because I think, first, they're able to use the character Beetlejuice as the lampshader around the whole thing. Right after the introduction song, he immediately is like, wow, a ballad and such a departure from the original source material.

[10:00] Tommy: Yeah.

[10:01] Jimi: Which is funny, but also very, very clever to be like, hey, look, if you're looking for the movie, this ain't it, kid.

[10:09] Tommy: And Harold Hill can't do that.

[10:12] Jimi: Exactly.

[10:13] Tommy: You can't do that with every protagonist, but Beetlejuice can.

[10:17] Jimi: Yeah.

[10:17] Tommy: I think that's part of it. And then there's a lot of quite authentic comparisons to Deadpool.

[10:24] Jimi: Yes.

[10:25] Tommy: Which I think is very apt. Like, that makes a lot of sense, because it is that instant fourth wall breaking, constant fourth wall breaking, and constantly irreverent.

[10:36] Jimi: It was, what was surprising to me in rewatching the movie, which I hadn't watched since maybe I was a teenager, coming back at it after the musical, I had created this false memory of Michael Keaton breaking the fourth wall in the movie, and he doesn't.

[10:53] Tommy: No.

[10:54] Jimi: There's a lot of really creative ways that he does subvert the in-world media he's a part of, whether he talks through the TV or has some of these other moments that has the same flavor of him just talking to the audience in the musical. But it is subtly, but importantly, different. That the movie doesn't know it's a movie, but the musical does know it's a musical.

[11:18] Tommy: Yeah, or certainly Beetlejuice, you know what I mean, does.

[11:22] Jimi: Right, yes.

[11:22] Tommy: Yeah.

[11:24] Jimi: So I think to kind of look at the story that it tells in contrast to them, because that's the thing, if you're listening and you're not familiar with the musical, but you are with the film, it's probably worth knowing where that goes. So it really focuses in a lot more on to Lydia, and her story and her kind of relationship with her dad.

[11:44] Tommy: And it gives me, weirdly, it gives me Casper vibes.

[11:52] Jimi: Interesting.

[11:53] Tommy: Okay.

[11:54] Jimi: Right?

[11:55] Tommy: Because of that, like, similar father-daughter relationship where there's this distance, and daughter's a bit gothic and moody, and befriend's a dead thing.

[12:05] Jimi: Yeah.

[12:06] Tommy: Like, this is nice, this is kind of like Casper.

[12:08] Jimi: And even the thought about, like, that there are rules to the dead that we don't need to expand upon beyond the needs of the plot, but that this is a universe where there are, you know, certain boundaries and certain guidelines to what being dead are, and they're not what you think they are.

[12:26] Tommy: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I feel like you could have a really fun crossover between Casper and Beetlejuice.

[12:30] Jimi: I, you know, I bet you-

[12:31] Tommy: A bit like the Beetlejuice that This World does.

[12:33] Jimi: I bet you it's happened.

[12:35] Tommy: It probably has.

[12:36] Jimi: But I just like the idea of, I can't remember his name, but Christina Ricci's dad.

[12:39] Tommy: Yeah.

[12:40] Jimi: Who's like, he's a psychotherapist to ghosts and to the dead. I love that. That fits right into Beetlejuice, doesn't it?

[12:47] Tommy: Yeah, no, absolutely. It's, these child-focused discussion of death pieces of media, I think are fascinating.

[13:00] Jimi: Yeah, totally.

[13:02] Tommy: Especially because there is this, you know, they always approach it from this way about like, we don't talk about death enough. Let's talk about death, but in a funny way.

[13:10] Jimi: Yeah.

[13:12] Tommy: Which I think is fair, because I think if it wasn't funny, it'd be a long, long two hours.

[13:17] Jimi: Yes, yes, it would be.

[13:19] Tommy: Well, and it does, you know, the musical even more so than the movie is, it lies to you in how serious it's going to be about death as a story plot. It's like, hey, get ready. This is a show about death. Ha ha ha, spooky. But like, it's not really.

[13:39] Jimi: No, there's lots of dead people in it.

[13:41] Tommy: Right.

[13:41] Jimi: But not even, there's in the musical, there's two, three, if you include Beetlejuice, we never see her mom. There's the implication there. We only see, you know, two characters die and it's comical. You know, even more so in the musical than it is in the movie, where it is a little ominous in the movie.

[14:02] Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[14:03] Jimi: You know, like, I think that it is an interesting narrative choice there to pretend to be more serious about it than you are as a storytelling device.

[14:16] Tommy: Yeah, but I think that's good because it does allow you to then take Lydia's story and her relationship with her dad a bit more seriously than if it was, like, it's not just like true farce that we're coming into here. There are moments of pathos that you need to get on board with. And yeah, it was quite interesting. So apparently the composer, Eddie Perfect, he had a lot of conversations with his wife who had lost, I think, her mother quite young and sort of basically took a lot of inspiration from her and her story.

[14:58] Jimi: But don't know how to handle that. So the way that they do it is by ignoring everything and just getting on with things. And that's where this idea of becoming invisible and being like, you know, no one can see me because I'm grieving and I don't know how to process this. And I think that's really smart in the way that they combine that with Beetlejuice, who is also invisible just because he's a demon. And that's just his lot in life that he can't see. But that kind of juxtaposition is actually quite smart. And it really links those two characters together from the get-go. And you can see them going on this little journey together.

[15:40] Tommy: Yeah, well, and it does give a good... because the other part that I think they downplay in the musical that is upplayed a little bit more in the movie is Lydia's suicidal ideation, which I still, even in the musical, I find discussion of teenage suicidal ideation a difficult topic to make light of. I'm glad it is downplayed more than it is in the movie where she says, you know, she very actively is like, listen, I want to be dead. You know, and I think we get past that pretty quickly in the musical.

[16:15] Jimi: Yeah, we do. It's not labored at all, really. And so you need some other motivating tendency behind her and tying her to Beetlejuice with this, you know, invisible problem is a good, better substitute for that sort of thing.

[16:29] Tommy: Yeah, totally. So I think as the story goes, it is quite, it is just quite well done. Like, it's not, it's nothing too crazy deep and it's nothing too, you know, groundbreaking in terms of the source material. You know, I mean, it's not going to go away changing your life, but you're on this journey and you don't feel out of place at all, I would say. I think some of the kind of climax moments are a little bit rushed.

[16:59] Jimi: Yeah. But I think, yeah, I think Act Two, like, like a lot of adaptations, Act Two has some problems.

[17:04] Tommy: Yeah. And part of it is because, you know, I think this is the same, it's the Frozen problem as well, is you have a song that you have to end Act One with, right? You have to end Act One with "Deo," because it's the song everyone is expecting to hear. But that leaves you with very little plot to deal with in Act Two.

[17:22] Jimi: Yeah. That then you have to kind of, I mean, that's literally the end of the film. Right. You know, it happened so quickly after that point. And so without reshuffling the plot too much, you gotta inflate some things that aren't previously inflated.

[17:43] Tommy: Exactly. How do you feel about the recentering of the protagonist around Lydia?

[17:50] Jimi: I think it's interesting, to be honest, from the film, right? She's not an iconic character. Yeah. To me, like, obviously, Winona Ryder does her so well. Right. But she was never the one that I remember from the film, because it is all about Beetlejuice and the Maitlands.

[18:08] Tommy: Yeah, it's so much about the Maitlands. Like they're, they're the ones with the conflict and the problem and the struggle. Right. And you've really, like, you feel so much for them. And I really love in the film that, again, the kind of weird juxtaposition of these really twee, happy couple.

[18:28] Jimi: Yeah. And these ridiculous, you know, when they go into the netherworld and are in the waiting room. And so like, it's just, it's totally nuts. Yeah. And really, really funny. But I think what is tricky in the musical with that is that from the start, it's a wacky world. Right. Right. You're in the wacky world to begin with. Right. With all the Tim Burton-ness and everything like that, you don't really get the, right, nice domesticity, even when the house is painted as such. It's still wacky.

[19:00] Tommy: Yeah. Like the movie takes a good 25 minutes of like, some quaintness, you know, meeting the real estate neighbor, driving to the store and the barber, like kind of murmuring to himself, like there's this whole bucolic town they're trying to set up.

[19:16] Jimi: Absolutely. And it's still a bit off, like there's still something a bit off kilter in the kind of, I don't know, it's got that Rocky Horror vibe. Yeah. B-movie vibe. But it still feels normal. Right. Things are natural here. Whereas nothing's really natural in the musical ever.

[19:31] Tommy: Yeah. So the Maitlands in the musical, I think, are a bit of an issue.

[19:39] Jimi: Yeah. I see them as a problem pair because they, you need them. Right. Right. You do need them. Absolutely. Yeah. But who are they? Right. When there's such caricatures of themselves. I think one of the big struggles, and I actually have this with the movie as well, is like the Maitlands progression is that like, they're not good at haunting. Right. And they finally have this great idea to do this weird "Deo," you know, possessional conga line, shrimp hand moment. Right. And this is going to be their haunting. And then it backfires in a way that it makes like, oh, what a delightful haunting sort of thing. And that is funny. But I find that reaction to it incongruous. Like, it is funny because the Maitlands idea of the scariest thing that could possibly happen to you is that you uncontrollably start singing a Harry Belafonte song.

[20:42] Tommy: Exactly. That is a really funny thing. And they don't, neither the movie nor the musical dives into that as explicitly as I want them to.

[20:49] Jimi: Yeah. I think with the movie, again, it's so surreal and bonkers. More, I think a lot of it is because they're not singing it. Right. Again, this is another issue with the film, the musical, sorry. Like it's, it's literally Harry Belafonte's voice. Right. Coming out of Catherine O'Hara.

[21:07] Tommy: But that's funny. It's actually silly. And it's, it's a good laugh. And then when they all start dancing and having a good time, it's like, is this scary here? Do you know what I mean? And that again is, is classic Maitlands. Whereas yeah, in the musical, it's supposed to be manic and because it's building up to the Beetlejuice haunt. Right. And yeah, I don't know. It's weird. What do you think about the movie songs being in the musical?

[21:35] Jimi: I mean, I feel like the thing I, the thing I forgot in rewatching the movie is that it does also start with "Daylight come and me," like in the title credits before the Danny Elfman song even comes in. And so it is kind of bookended by these, you know, by Belafonte. I think if they weren't in the musical, it wouldn't have succeeded.

[21:59] Tommy: Not because people would have been like, where is it? You know, in the preview of First Wives Club, they didn't get the rights to "You Don't Own Me." And it, I think it flopped because of that. I think we have, we do, we talk about this quite a lot with this show. And it is, it's like any big franchise film to musical will always have this or whether it's "I'm a Believer" from Shrek. It has to be in there. But I do, I don't know. It's weird. I think, I think one of the difficulties is because they're going with the musical is going with more of a cartoony Beetlejuice than a Michael Keaton Beetlejuice. His hauntings both, I think at the end of Act One and especially during "Do You Hear That Sound" are wacky and silly and like cream pie in the face sort of stuff.

Whereas in the movie, you know, he turns into a terrifying snake and like drops people from two stories and like, you know, almost kills or probably does kill Robert Goulet. Like, and so that is in contrast to The Maitland's Haunting of "Deo." Whereas in the musical, well, Ooh, it's, you know, Oh no, it's a big stage illusion of a giant face. But yeah, it's just like, there's stuff let's run away.

[23:18] Tommy: Right. There's not a big difference between his hauntings and, you know, "Deo," which, you know, also it's not the kind of show where like, I think that sort of thing would improve it, but also it's a show that doesn't need to try that hard to do some of this sort of stuff. So I don't know if it would be wasted energy to try and make Beetlejuice feel a little more evil.

[23:42] Jimi: Yeah. Well, cause that's the thing is like the original Washington tryout was quite famously too crass to out there to left field. Obviously they didn't do any of that, right. It was all still the same, but yeah. Their attempt at going extreme flopped. Yeah. So obviously on Broadway where we're, you know, happy and everything's fab. Yeah. That would never go down. I mean, that would not work at all. Right. So I think, I think, yeah, I think they made the right decision, but I agree with you. It doesn't have the payoff.

[24:17] Tommy: Yeah. I think the, the movie songs, I don't know. There's just something because it's, they don't make any sense. Right. Like they've shoehorned in the Sonora thing, but like mom used to listen to this. Yeah. And I wish they hadn't done that. That, that bothered me. Like you don't need to, it's out of nowhere. It's a song, you know, if you, if you absolutely must have the Maitlands listening to it on a record when they're alive. Yeah. Right. And just a bit and take it off the record. And that's why they, cause they're the ones who make the song anyway. Right. Yeah. Like as you know, this was a thought I did have between the movie and the musical. And I do think it's something about Beetlejuice, the movie and movies from that era, like the eighties and the nineties.

Yeah. People, we wouldn't make Beetlejuice the movie the same way today because movies today have to explain things more. I think especially comedies, but all sorts of movies nowadays are much more handholding. Like the thought I had in rewatching it, there's a point where they're in the, in the netherworld or wherever, whatever they call it in the movie. One is the afterlife and the other is another world and I can't, can never keep them straight. Um, but, uh, they stumble over the door with like the, you know, the lost souls and the janitor is like, that's where dead people go to die. And if they made the movie again today, when, um, uh, the Maitlands are, you know, dying on the dining room table, that janitor would show up again and be like, Oh, they're dead and they're going to die again.

And it's spooky. And like, would explain like, yeah, the, the thing we foreshadowed in the beginning, it's going to happen. And they, they don't even bother. They don't even, no one says anything about like, Oh yes, clearly this is bad for them. They don't even explain that it's bad for them. They just show you that maybe this isn't the best situation that they're crumbling.

[26:08] Jimi: Yeah, exactly. That was the bit that always scared me when I was, when they went, Oh God. Yeah. But they don't like, you know, I don't think Lydia even says anything along the lines of like, you're going to, you know, you're going to make them go away or kill them or whatever, you know, verbiage we want to use there.

[26:20] Tommy: Yeah. I mean, it's that, the kind of exorcism, like this is actually an exorcism. Right. Totally.

[26:31] Jimi: Right. But the whole movie, you know, like when they, whenever they leave the house and end up in this weird desert land, they don't belabor what it is or why it's bad. And movies nowadays would do that because I don't know if it's an audience expectation or just a way that Hollywood has moved. But you see some of that expectation in this musical that we have to justify, like, here's why "Deo" is going to come back. Oh, it was mom's favorite song. You know, we have to build a tighter plot for audiences. And I don't know if that's the best thing.

[27:05] Tommy: Exactly. That's the thing though. I'm just like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't go to that musical expecting to hear those songs. I really wouldn't because I'm like, how the hell would that make any sense? It's a soundtrack. It's literal. "Deo" may be a bit different, but the last, the jump in the line, like, it's just funny because it's Winona Ryder flying about. Like, it could be anything, just make it a fun song. Like, I really, I'm not going to see it for that.

[27:31] Jimi: Yeah. You know what I mean? It bothers me and it's an annoying trend.

[27:39] Tommy: Yeah, but it is. But these are the things you see in franchises. It's, you know, it's the Glen Coco problem, right? Like, if it is anything that is iconic about the movie, you're stuck including it. In the same way that there has to be a sandworm. There's no gigantic bizarre sandscape in the musical, but you have to have the sandworm because people, you know, that is as, maybe not as iconic, but is so attached to the Beetlejuice franchise.

[28:05] Jimi: I think with the sandworm, they actually integrated that quite well because it was this otherworldly threat, but to make, because it's a musical and then to choose your finale, not even anything, your finale, right? As this song. No. And I get, like, to give them credit, like they did integrate. Yeah. I think they do a fine job. They're lucky that, they're lucky that "Daylight Come and We Want to Go Home" is close enough to a moral that kind of might be a little bit associated with the plot that they're trying to have.

[28:41] Tommy: I mean, sure, but come on, that is, they're not story singing at that point. Why are you singing it in the Jamaican accent? You know what I mean? Like, if it's going to be a story song, make it a story song. I don't know. It annoys me. But yeah, just to, because I don't actually think I finished the point. To bring it back to the Maitlands. I think really they're the only thing that doesn't work for me in terms of the book. Yeah. Because they've got two big songs.

[29:11] Jimi: And like themselves, and then another kind of big one with Beetlejuice. And at no point are they the main characters. No, no. Right. And I mean, they have like the I want song position. Right. That's what's crazy. Right. But they're not your protagonist. Please don't ever think they are. It's a weird treatment that they have. And I don't quite know where they sit. And so by the end, I'm not really emotionally engaged. And like you said, with the exorcism, when it's like, oh, she might go and die. You're like, okay. Right. I don't, I didn't really care much about her. Well, and even like, you know, Barbara 2.0, you get to the end of that song and you're like, how was that so terribly different from who?

[30:27] Jimi: Classic adaptation issue of we need them. Don't know what to do with them. Yeah, will this work? And I don't know. I don't know if it does but at the same time if they weren't in it, it'd be really difficult, right? Well, and here's the thing and here's the question I have and I think Beetlejuice is kind of uniquely positioned in this way because it is an adaptation where there are a bunch of diehard fans for the original thing, but I don't think Beetlejuice the musical appeals to like the Michael Keatonites of the world. Right, and I think that is a fascinating thing as far as adaptations come because Frozen certainly does right all the other like franchise, you know Spongebob certainly does like you you this is why people want to build off of franchises is to capitalize on the pre-existing fan base and I don't I don't think that Beetlejuice didn't set out with like I think the creators also set out with that in mind but have kind of stumbled into a world where they found a different fan base. They found a different world or it didn't matter as much which is interesting.

[31:44] Tommy: Massively yeah, I think that the main thing is there is that Disney is mass appeal right Spongebob is mass appeal. What they had with Beetlejuice was a cult movie. Yeah. Yeah, you know a really deep couple. It's the same kind of treatment as Heathers where it's like not everyone will really have seen this film, right and sure is iconic as hell. Yeah and in many ways who could easily be adapted but yeah, neither of those audiences I don't think would be flocking to see a musical right? Do you know I mean to see the other thing that they love right in a musical? Well, and it does like that lets you play a little faster and looser with what you're adapting because you don't have the you know, angry comic book nerd walking out at the stage door being like Michael Keaton was only in the movie for 20 minutes, but you know, right like anything I've read any sort of anything is nobody talks about the fact that it's a different story, right?

No, I mean nobody talks about the kind of plot holes that are created by adapting it. They're happy with with what it is so that's I'm like get rid of the vital song because nobody actually would care. Yeah, nobody would care so is I think as long as she flew that I think people would because that is more iconic than the song. She's flying to that's fair, right? Yeah.

[33:10] Jimi: Yeah, so that these are my thoughts. All the all the Harry Belafonte stands are gonna come out of the woodwork for you Jimmy. This is it. They're actually there's droves. There are droves.

[33:25] Tommy: Before we move on I do want to just touch briefly and on this so you're saying that here a statement from Tommy Nolan. I reject the notion that this musical is subversive in its existence. Ah, yes, I have seen I'm gonna get on a soapbox for a second, but I've seen a lot of the way like meta meta rhetoric around this musical that like, you know in in the same sort of way that I see the same sort of stuff about Rocky Horror or some of these, you know cult classic style pieces where that like Beetlejuice is rejecting the status quo and you know feels individual because it does things different and unique and in a weird way I've seen a lot of like a lot of think pieces that like Beetlejuice succeeds because it's weird and it breaks the norms and I have bad news for musical theater analysis, but it doesn't you know you like one for one you can compare this musical to the recent stage adaptation of Willy Wonka also from Warner Brothers theatrical like based on a movie where you don't see the title character for a very long time but now that it's a musical he walks out on stage introduces himself and tells you it's a musical before he takes whisks you away to his fantastical world where you know murder and death abounds but in a silly way like there's a lot of similarities there and there is this kind of like this is a thing I think we see a lot in contemporary pop culture is the the selling of anarchy the marketing marketization of anarchy and I you know the the analysis that if you're in a world where you're like yeah in Beetlejuice is different.

You've been taken by that marketing ploy. That's what they that's what they want you to think, right? Beetlejuice is not subversive in this musical perhaps his existence perhaps the character perhaps the idea of Beetlejuice it was subversive but this is still at the end of the day you can still buy a Beetlejuice plushie in the lobby and you know it is it is a remarkable irony when these sort of things happen that things that are considered to be icons of rebellion subverting the norms and crassness, you know, then you can go to Hot Topic and buy a Beetlejuice shirt, right?

[35:54] Jimi: Yeah, you've really hit the nail in the head there. I think because at the end of the day it was made because it's a franchise, right? You know, I mean, it's made because it has iconic right marketing potential it's black and white and green. Yeah, that's not been done before. Yeah, right, right and like not not to dismiss the genius of the adaptation not to dismiss the the arts the art of it because they did a good job with the story absolutely, but it is like this is one of the problems with some of these, you know big producing names coming into or really taking it like taking full control over media production is they always have something more to sell you exactly to say it's the little musical that could is wrong. Yeah. No, there's a huge, you know huge publicity department behind this thing and exactly, you know, hey, should we talk about though? Let's jump on my segue. We haven't used that in a while.

[37:04] Tommy: What's the plan?

[37:35] Jimi: Do you know actually I listened to an old episode of ours, yeah, and I think you said it every single segue.

[37:44] Tommy: Yeah, I like in total about five or six times that and yeah, I'm so you go. I'm happy. We're really pushing it. We're really wanting that on a t-shirt. That's what's yeah.

[38:01] Jimi: Exactly speaking of merch and friends Jimmy yes Warner Brothers theatrical in the news recently. Have you heard about this?

[38:12] Tommy: Do tell in some investor call recently like, you know post kovat some executive murmured something along the lines of that Warner Brothers is thinking about re-approaching its A approach that's not what he said. I'm sure but like re-evaluating their theatrical branch.

[38:36] Jimi: Wow, and they've had to backpedal a whole bunch by saying like no. No, we're not getting rid of it we just have to rethink it a little bit and like I think Warner Brothers theatrical is the epitome of rethinking themselves. How many productions do you think Warner Brothers theatrical has made Jimmy a lot eight?

[39:00] Tommy: Well to be honest, that's a lot it is a lot second only probably to Disney as far as a corporation is concerned and that's corporation and that's the whole idea many of those tolly have been success you mean you didn't see Lestat.

[39:12] Jimi: Oh sadly I've actually listened to Lestat. Yeah, is it any good? I have not listened to it. How about dr. Schwago?

[39:17] Tommy: I have also listened to actually there's some nice moments in touch. Really? Yes, no, this is it I mean misery, yeah, remember when that oh, man, but not like you're stupid but so, you know a Christmas story.

[39:30] Jimi: I do love a Christmas story. I'm covered. They also did Elf Charlie and Chuck factory as we've mentioned bridges of Madison County and the curious incident which is a fascinating addition to this whole bed. No, that's the thing it's like that when I saw this movie, I was like, oh my god, this is so cool. That's the thing is like that when I saw that that was there I was like how yeah on but not in the sense of how on earth did you do that? How on earth did you get everything else so wrong, right? Yeah, because Kirsten is like runaway success extremely high quality production extremely brilliant marketing. Yeah, I'm like endless potential. Yeah, like it will always run. Yeah.

[40:12] Jimi: It is how did everything else goes wrong? It is fascinating and so like, you know Warner Brothers the the story goes Warner Brothers theatrical got into sorry Warner Brothers theater ventures I think is their proper name venture being the operative word for the way. Let's let's have a go. Yeah, exactly they absolutely you know got into the game because of how successful Disney was with like Beauty and the Beast and some of their early productions and Warner Brothers was like we can do that but apparently they can't.

[40:44] Tommy: I know I just it's one of those things. It's I think there's a world right where it could work. Yeah, but the world isn't Broadway. We've started talking about this a little more about like the the alternate Broadway world. Yeah, that isn't run by Disney you know, I mean like when I do and it perhaps we're moving that way like the the it's it's shrouded in mystery but you can still get bits and pieces of some of the demo tapes for Batman the musical which was gonna be like the the the Tim Burton Batman. Yeah musical right was gonna be the first Warner Brothers theatrical ventures venture and if you listen to bits and pieces, it's not great it's bloody bad but there's a world where it could be I think yeah, like there is a world for like be musicals, yeah, and I think that's the kind of thing that Warner Brothers are attempting to constantly produce but the the thing that they come up against is commercialism, yeah.

[41:55] Jimi: They just they're not I don't feel like the the shows that they're producing have that huge commercial appeal that something like Disney Disney yeah as a behemoth like right is everyone instantly recognizes it as a family brand whereas Warner Brothers doesn't you don't instantly picture that because you know, Warner Brothers films right could be yeah Charlie the Chalk Factory, but they also could be I don't know insert r-rated Warner Brothers, right? Well, right. I think that's also the thing is like it says Disney's Lion King it doesn't say Warner Brothers is Beetlejuice, right like Disney especially with their own productions leans in a lot more saying like hey, hey, hey it's a Disney show which then they don't you know, Disney has a couple other sleeper shows that they don't market as Disney shows which has been there, you know, that's their mo not just on Broadway but you know through their publishing and all sorts of their syndication stuff like it nowadays it's all Disney once you dive down deep enough.

[43:02] Tommy: But it might not it might not start with the when you wish upon a star castle zoom out because they don't you know this isn't a Disney branded musical but I do think you know that brand recognition. It's an interesting thing to discuss and when you have like the other thing that is wild is like Warner Brothers shows aren't failing because there is like a you know secret cabal of Warner Brothers executives behind it that are asking for script rewrites and stuff in the same way that there is a secret cabal of Disney executives who are asking for rewrites on their musicals I mean, maybe maybe that is the difference. Maybe Warner Brothers needs that ghostwriting team but then the thing is is like Disney are just good at stuff like that like for some like Disney have that magical fairy dust yeah but the Imagineers and the many magical things that they do like they are just good at finding good people, right?

[44:11] Jimi: Right and people have a passion because I think it is just because people grew up with Disney and they want to do literally everything they can to make a good product like a good Disney shaped product and like to me it's it can't be any coincidence that everything they do to everything they touch turns to gold like it really can.

[44:21] Tommy: So, yeah, maybe that's it maybe it's just that thing it's like oh there's that theater stuff we should get in on that. I don't really know anything about it. But yeah, let's go for it because I do just think particularly if you look at Beetlejuice and Chocolate Factory both of those could have been like genuinely sensational. I think yeah. Yeah, and I think Beetlejuice is substantially better than Chocolate Factory. I will say that. Yeah but neither they just don't hit that mark they don't hit that like, ah, yeah.

[44:56] Jimi: Quality, like, I will come back and see that again and again and again, that you get with something like Lion King. I mean, like, Mary Poppins. Like, these are timeless. Right, and are going to last forever. But it makes you wonder why. And I think it is, it's somewhere in that grayscale that surrounds adaptation. Like, how much and how little, how, you know, how much do you deviate from the original source material? Which is ironic, because Beetlejuice lampshades that whole thing. Whereas, like, do you know what does really deviate from the original source material? Lion King. It's so, the stage production is so wildly different from the animated movie. Hunchback, right? Like, so different. Like, they really, really do. Yeah, it is an interesting comparison. And that's really interesting that they have been having those thoughts. Yeah, about post-COVID theatre ventures.

[46:00] Tommy: Yeah. Well, it is. I mean, the, and certainly the future of everything's a little uncertain right now. But the future of Broadway has been in this weird, transitionary period ever since Lion King came to New York and Disney cleaned up Times Square. Totally. Exactly. And like, once the big money started showing up in these shows, it's, it has had a profound effect on what art is. And for all of these franchise motivations, and perhaps in direct contrast to the assertion I made mere minutes ago about how Beetlejuice isn't subversive, the fact that it still has the flavour of subversiveness, that you can still read a little bit into that, that still can exist on Broadway, I don't know, is interesting and be successful on Broadway. I think if Beetlejuice was subversive, I'd be so much more passionate about it.

[46:50] Jimi: That's true. If it was Rocky Horror, I don't think it'd be successful at all. No, but I would be like, love this, want to see more, goddamn, why is Broadway so clean? Right, exactly. Right. And it is, it's this, it's this, it comes back to this weird thing of like, where's this other universe where we can have, or where things can just be a bit off kilter. Yeah. And for that to be really cool and fun and exciting. Yeah. And lauded critically. Whereas it just, it can't happen, physically can't happen on Broadway. Yeah. It's almost like, but you know, the, where the, the out of town tryouts were a little more, you know, dick joke, happy. Like, I imagine there's also something lost when you family friendly up some of that crassness.

[48:00] Tommy: Yeah, I agree. Because I think the reason why it probably didn't work in Washington is because they had their eyes on Broadway. So for the most part, it was a lovely commercial Broadway musical with some dick jokes thrown in. Whereas if you went full Deadpool, right. Like it would probably be really great. Yeah. Yeah. But like, yeah, I mean, you know, like something Avenue Q land, like something, you know, really diving into like, yeah, we're a musical, but we're going to say fuck a lot and not just three times in the show. Yes. Yeah. Cause and that's, I guess that thing is like, you know, critics will say like, hey, what about Book of Mormon? Hey, what about Avenue Q? Absolutely. These things do exist because there needs to be a need for them. You can't have everything squeaky clean.

[48:32] Jimi: Right. But to be the next one? Yeah. Ain't easy, kid. Well, and I do this will not be a well formed thought. Book of Mormon and Avenue Q both capitalize on their crassness because they have a shiny exterior. And like the crassness goes against your expectation for the thing, whether it's a Sesame Street puppet show or something about Mormons. Beetlejuice isn't that, right? Beetlejuice has cockroaches crawling out of it. And it's almost like Beetlejuice is the opposite. Like then you go in and it is a little fluffy and you can get a plush of Beetlejuice in the lobby. You know, you can't get a plush of Elder Price in the lobby. I don't know. That's just a- Although you can get a plush of the Magical Aids frog. So what does that mean? But yeah, I think let's talk a little bit about what actually happened with Beetlejuice.

[49:22] Tommy: So I feel like everyone, I feel like everybody knows about this. It's a wild story. It's a good example of, you know, some of the weird intricacies of how the Broadway machine works. Yeah. So Beetlejuice opened, didn't do hugely well critically. I would say like mixed. Yeah, very mixed reviews. Like a solid mixed. And especially early on hadn't found its audience, I would say. Yes, absolutely. Like its audience isn't the traditional Broadway audience. Yes. Right. That isn't. And what we're seeing at the moment is that there is a tilt, there's a change happening and, you know, the kids are coming. Right. They're not there yet. So at the moment, like that opening thing, and especially in the run up to Tony season, where people are wanting to see the next big hit. Right. Beetlejuice wasn't going to be that, but it got eight nominations.

[50:18] Jimi: Yeah. It didn't win any. Yeah. And that didn't do any favours. Right. Apparently after Tony's, it had a little spike, obviously, as I think a lot of shows do after their telecast. And it was a good telecast, I must say. Yeah. I liked their performance. Yeah. But they had two rough weeks in May where they didn't make the threshold for what they had to make by the Shubert organisation who run the theatre. And because of that, they were kind of in the firing line. Yeah. And the Shubert's decided to shoot because they got a lovely email from whoever being like, hi, we want the Winter Garden for Hugh Jackman, please. And they're like, absolutely. It's worth it. You know, if you're just consuming musicals as an art form, it's easy to forget that for producers and theatres, a lot of play production is just a series of math problems.

[51:25] Tommy: Right. You know, how big is our house? How much does every ticket cost? How many days are there in May? How much does it cost to pay everyone to work here? You know, put an equal sign between and if the thing doesn't balance out, then you got to start making some business decisions. Exactly. Exactly. And that's the thing. So they made this decision. They had in their contract what is called, I thought I'd written it there. A stop clause. A stop clause, which means that they can say you're stopping. Yeah. It's an eviction notice. It's an eviction notice. It's a closing clause. I imagine, you know, that's what happens pretty much when any show closes, right? You're not going to meet your futures.

You're not, you know, ticket sales look bleak. And at some point that line dips below whatever threshold it is. And that's when you've got a big thing coming in who wants, because the winter is a good spot. Like, come on. Yeah. It's right in the heart of it. You can't get more hearts. So that, you know, I mean, that had a big target on its back already.

[52:25] Jimi: Yeah. What I guess was unprecedented was the fact that suddenly the numbers start creeping up. Right. And in a very lovely, coincidental, beautiful art way. Yeah. Beetlejuice comes back to life. Right. Suddenly start seeing this weird and bizarre popularity spike that didn't, that I would imagine didn't jive with the normal models of how these things work. Right. Otherwise the winter garden wouldn't have kicked them out. Yeah, exactly. Like if that is one of those things, like if that renaissance, I guess happened in those two weeks in June, if it happened a couple of weeks earlier. Yeah. We might not even be having this discussion and Beetlejuice would be like a solid mainstay of Broadway. Right.

Which is a weird thing to say. They did a couple of other things in light of this and they did things like they lowered the ticket price to try and make the audience more accessible because they saw that the audiences were getting a bit younger and they were like, hang on, we're getting a new fame here. We're beating around the bush.

[53:40] Tommy: Right. But there's one particularly big reason. Well, and it did, it put Beetlejuice in a weird position where they had an eviction date, but not a closing date where the futures for the show were actually headed up and people wanted to see the show, but they couldn't stay in their theatre anymore, which doesn't happen. Normally you're getting kicked out of your theatre because you're not making money and no one else wants you, wants to home you. Exactly. It's like there's no real business decision as to like, well, we should probably move house. Like there's none of that. It's just you become homeless. Right. And like you, there are other things like Lion King has moved theatres a bunch of times because of other calculations like this, but not because they were seeing declining ticket sales.

No, not at all. And so it, you know, there's a, there's a great commercial, um, with Alex Brightman that aired in New York where he's, you know, it's like Beetlejuice is getting evicted, but we're still searching for a new home. And that's a wild thing that doesn't happen to shows.

[54:40] Jimi: Exactly. And it was pretty much, it's weird. There's, there's so much like, yes, no hearsay nonsense going on because it's, it's behind the scenes, behind closed doors contract stuff, but they had pretty much been given a new theatre, um, where the inheritance was, I can't remember the name of it. Um, and that was, that was going to happen at some point. Yeah, probably. Yeah. Um, and then. Right. Yeah. The world turned upside down and Broadway closed. Right. And it puts Beetlejuice in the bizarre situation of having closed during a global pandemic without having a closing night performance. Yeah. And because that's like, there's a cruel irony that Cuomo did of being like, we're going to open the theatres up on June the 7th.

Yeah. Beetlejuice closes on June the 6th. That's harsh. Yeah. That's harsh. It's wild. And I don't think the theatres are going to open on the 7th. No, I don't think they will open, but at that point. When it does raise, and you know, all of this is up in the air, there's talk right now that like, you know, technically the 2020 Tonys are postponed. I'm not sure they're gonna be cancelled. Um, there's a chance that Beetlejuice might get a post-pandemic revival immediately, perhaps with the same cast and certainly the same set. And like, it'll be, to call it a revival would be a wild, a wild piece of nomenclature because it won't be, it's the same production. Yeah. It's just gone into this kind of like torpor where it's in this weird hibernation.

Um, but it's a really tricky one to keep alive. Right. Yeah. And like, and the big question of like, will the futures that this musical saw pre-pandemic remain the same at all in, in the after times? Right. It's a really, but also we're not in a world, you know, I think this is one of the saddest things about art right now is just like everything else that has hit a standstill, but all art needs a really big runway. You know, you can't just open a show tomorrow. And so when we can open a show tomorrow, we're going to have to pick and choose the things that can just open right up. And Beetlejuice is one of those things.

[57:04] Jimi: Exactly. It's all just sitting there. Um, there's an audience. Right. Yeah. Uh, should we talk about that audience? Oh man.

[57:43] Tommy: Jimmy, have you downloaded TikTok? No. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Thank you so much.

[58:00] Jimi: So right. Especially at the moment, there's been so many times where I'm like, I think I need to be on TikTok. Yeah. I feel like this is probably what the people want. Um, I don't know who these people are. That's the problem. But I think they want it. Um, it's, it's crazy. This is, this has been the thing that has made me feel my age. Yeah. Right. Cause I got, I got Snapchat. Yeah. I understood that. Yeah. Um, this is, this eludes me to no end. I don't get it. Tell me, describe to me your understanding of TikTok. I think this will be fascinating.

[58:38] Tommy: So my, my understanding of TikTok has come through researching Beetlejuice. Like I knew, like I knew, and I've got a couple of friends that are on it and do the dances and stuff like that. And that's, that's all fun and games. And yes, it's quite compelling. Um, but then I was like, okay, so let's see. Cause obviously, you know, Beetlejuice just took over TikTok. Let's see all, all these shenanigans that are getting up to on TikTok. It's just a, it's just some kids quite mediocrely lip syncing to songs.

[59:17] Jimi: Those are dangerous words you just strung together.

[59:21] Tommy: I don't care. That's what it is. Like I watch like the best TikToks, the best Beetlejuice TikToks. One of them is this like curly haired, I don't know, like 14 year old guy who's literally just eating chewing gum, right. And lip syncing to, uh, the say my name one. Right. Yeah. And I was like, where's the heck, why are, why have you got like a million views on this? There is nothing quality about this. You've turned this out, little child. Um, I'm sure it's probably one of the biggest TikToks I've ever heard. I don't care. Like, um, I couldn't get.

[59:53] Jimi: And so this, this is, like, I'm very confused right now.

[59:57] Tommy: Oh, that's so fun. I mean, in my, in my ongoing endeavor to be the cool teacher, in air quotes, I have tried and I think succeeded in understanding what TikTok is.

[1:00:09] Jimi: I would, I like, I will say, first of all, it is genuinely addicting to watch TikTok.

[1:00:14] Tommy: Well, I mean, that's the signal. It's the most currently, like, addicting and manufactured soul.

[1:00:20] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:00:22] Tommy: That wasn't English, but...

[1:00:23] Jimi: Right, but created to keep you in your phone and keep you scrolling, you know, even, even more than, like, the Instagram dark pattern.

[1:00:31] Tommy: And, like, these, these are things that social media is doing right now that, that the internet's been trying to do, perhaps in the shadows, even more so five years ago, but now they're just blatant about, like, that, you know, Skinner Box reward. Like, how do you keep, you know, how do you keep them pushing the fun button as much as possible so that they stay on your platform for as long as possible to make them buy Cheerios?

[1:00:51] Jimi: Um, and so, like, TikTok has certainly figured that out. And it, you know, lives as a spiritual successor to Vine, and, like, it has this kind of self-showcase thing. I did, I was talking, um, uh, with a bunch of, uh, the kids I teach about TikTok a while back, and one of, one of my juniors said, I think, one of the most poignant things I've ever heard a junior say, and I hear kids say awesome things all the time, but one of their big problems with TikTok is, it is a commodification of one of the last sacred spaces that teenagers have. Like, you know, their bedrooms, their dining room tables, and, like, already, from when we were in high school to now when kids are in high school, their alone time has gone away in a bunch of ways. Like, you don't leave your friends at school, your friends come home with you in your pocket.

[1:01:40] Um, you know, you can constantly be talking with them and creating drama with them, and it moves at a mile a minute, which isn't great for anyone's brain, much less the teenage brain. But now TikTok adds this one extra layer of, like, oh man, you're doing nothing right now. You could be getting famous on TikTok. Why aren't you getting famous on TikTok? By, you know, making a toilet paper hat and dancing to a new song in front of your mirror. Like, you, you could be, you could be making content right now, which is such a, like, what a, you know, I feel that terrible poisonous motivation in a much more old-timey way every day. I can't imagine, like, thinking, like, oh, well, at the very least, you could be popular amongst your friends by creating funny TikToks. It's so easy. It's only six seconds. Go make one, right? That's a terrible little devil on your shoulder.

[1:02:32] Tommy: It is absolutely horrific. And I mean, like, to the fact that it literally creeps into my brain where I was like, I should be doing this. I, I don't have it.

[1:02:40] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:02:40] Tommy: I don't care about it. And now I know what it is, or certainly what does well in it. I'm like, I don't want to do that.

[1:02:46] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:02:46] Tommy: That's crap. Like.

[1:02:48] Jimi: This weird, like, manufactured FOMO of TikTok.

[1:02:51] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:02:52] Jimi: It's fascinating.

[1:02:53] Tommy: Absolutely. So, like, Beetlejuice and TikTok is a weird relationship. Still, it does baffle me. I don't, I actually don't get it.

[1:03:03] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:03:03] Tommy: And I'm, I want someone to write an essay on it.

[1:03:07] Jimi: They're a bunch.

[1:03:08] Tommy: They're not going to explain it well to you, though.

[1:03:10] Jimi: Fair. I just feel like it came out of nowhere. Like, where did it come from? Because I don't think it started with Presley Ryan being in Beetlejuice.

[1:03:22] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:03:22] Jimi: I think it started from the songs.

[1:03:24] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:03:25] Jimi: And that they're a little catchy and that it is, you know, Beetlejuice was a popular contemporary musical with teens.

[1:03:31] Tommy: Certainly.

[1:03:32] Jimi: With teens in the know.

[1:03:33] Tommy: With musical theatre nerds.

[1:03:35] Jimi: With, yeah, stagey kids.

[1:03:36] Tommy: Yeah. And, like, I see how stagey kids would be the kind of kids who have TikTok and would be the kinds of kids who would be into Beetlejuice because it is the thing now. In the same way that there are, you know, Heather's TikToks. Like.

[1:03:49] Jimi: Right.

[1:03:49] Tommy: Heather's 6. Like.

[1:03:50] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:03:51] Tommy: Like, that sort of stuff happens. But Beetlejuice, I think, I think the tipping point is Beetlejuice happened to have one of, happened to be one of the only shows positioned where its marketing department was aware of it and then could start building up that sort of thing. Like, you know, tweaking the levers to make it a little more popular on TikTok.

[1:04:09] Jimi: And, you know, pay Vulture.com to write an article about how popular it is on TikTok, right?

[1:04:21] Tommy: Yeah. And, like, kind of create that echo chamber. Not implying that, you know, marketing was, like, astroturfing this sort of thing. But there is a way in which you can kind of, you know, poke and prod at it here and there to make this sort of thing a little more popular than it would have been left to its own virality.

[1:04:40] Jimi: I guess that's it. It's like, what I'm trying to work out is, like, why Beetlejuice?

[1:04:44] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:04:45] Jimi: I mean, like, that is.

[1:04:47] Tommy: It's that manufactured subversiveness that has mass appeal to teenagers. Like, that's, especially today. The, the, the Vine, the, it's not Vine.

[1:04:59] Jimi: Okay, I miss Vine.

[1:05:01] Tommy: The, the song that everyone is doing.

[1:05:05] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:05:06] Tommy: Is that Say My Name bit where it's like, Beetle, yeah.

[1:05:12] Jimi: Right.

[1:05:13] Tommy: Beetle, or whatever. I can't remember what the actual line is.

[1:05:16] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:05:17] Tommy: Um, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice.

[1:05:19] Jimi: Um, like, it, it, what's appealing? Like, in the context of the show, that bit is like, ah, it's a chuckle. But it's the idea of it. And the fact that you can perform that section pretty well without, while still chewing gum and being a 14-year-old in your bedroom, right?

[1:05:38] Tommy: Or by doing a fun makeup trick with green and red lights, like.

[1:05:42] Jimi: Right, uh-huh. And that's the sort of thing.

[1:05:44] Tommy: No, I think for me, I'm just like, there's, like, all musicals are performed.

[1:05:49] Jimi: Right.

[1:05:50] Tommy: Like, it's, and I get, I do get why there's a huge, um, like, the Broadway kids are on TikTok. Because it is, you just, you sing and it's music-based. Like, it came from music. And they're absolutely the sort of kids who are already inclined to perform any second they get.

[1:06:06] Jimi: Right, totally.

[1:06:07] Tommy: And that's fab. And I think that's a good, there's a good, it's good that there's an outlet for that.

[1:06:12] Jimi: Um, but where has this kind of, like, truncation come from that has caused these people who have no idea that this is from Beetlejuice the musical to, you know, I mean, like, I honestly think it is, it's the, it is, it is a different flavor of the sort of thing we talk about all the time. About how it allows a non-Broadway audience to engage with a Broadway musical in a way that feels really meaningful and very tactile.

[1:06:44] Tommy: Um, in a way that's not just, you know, talking to your friends about the fun musical. But, like, actually showing and creating and physicalizing your love for this show. And I think there is something to that. You know, we feel that all the time about these shows that we talk so much about that we don't have the chance to see. And the, for, in this weird, bizarre set of circumstances, teenagers were presented both with a show that somehow, like, it's, it's like OK Boomer the musical in a bunch of ways.

[1:07:15] Jimi: Which is super appealing to teens nowadays.

[1:07:18] Tommy: And they have found this platform that allows them to, you know, privately amongst their peers, divulge their love to this thing. In a way that is kind of flavored subversively. In a way that feels like they're breaking the rules, which tickles another part of the teenage brain. Like, I think this creates sort of the perfect storm of appeal for a Beetlejuice fandom expressed via TikTok.

[1:07:41] Jimi: But that's the thing as it's transcended the Beetlejuice fandom. It's now just, it's like a TikTok entity.

[1:07:51] Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

[1:07:52] Jimi: Do you know what I mean? It's not, it's not Beetlejuice fans aren't going on and doing, making TikToks.

[1:07:56] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:07:57] Jimi: Like, Trisha Paytas is making, I mean, she doesn't care about Beetlejuice.

[1:08:02] Tommy: No.

[1:08:02] Jimi: She doesn't, you know, I mean, like, I appreciate Trisha Paytas has an interesting relationship with musical theater. I appreciate that. But like, come on, it's, it's really weird. Right?

[1:08:13] Tommy: Am I, am I, am I wrong in thinking that?

[1:08:16] Jimi: I think it is the, we are seeing the beginning of the new normal of Broadway.

[1:08:22] Tommy: I love it.

[1:08:23] Jimi: Like, I absolutely adore it because it is proving that these pieces exist beyond the, you know, New York critics bounds and controls. I mean, when we were at BroadwayCon, we commented on it. By and large, the most popular cosplay was Beetlejuice and, you know, variations of. And like, one of the fascinating things that we talked about at BroadwayCon is, it is a Broadway industry event for non-Broadway industry people, which is a really fascinating dichotomy that like, it's, it's for the fans by the marketers and they want different things from each other.

[1:09:07] Tommy: They really do.

[1:09:08] Jimi: They really, really do. And it, and Beetlejuice is one where they're able to capitalize it or they were, cause it was still open. But like, you know, there was no reason to capitalize on Guys and Dolls at BroadwayCon because there's nothing I can market to you through Guys and Dolls. But Guys and Dolls might be my favorite musical ever. And I'm at BroadwayCon, so I'm going to dress up as nicely, nicely Johnson.

[1:09:28] Tommy: Right.

[1:09:28] Jimi: Right. And so that's, it's, it's, it's a problem. And I think one of the things, you know, it is, it is bizarre that Beetlejuice, this thing we have lambasted for being a little too commercial, has become more commercial than itself. People, people want to be sold things about Beetlejuice that the Beetlejuice entity can't sell them.

[1:09:50] Tommy: Right.

[1:09:55] Jimi: Like, I think that's also one of the bizarre problems with its popularity on TikTok. Tons of those kids will never see the show and will never give a red cent to Warner Brothers.

[1:10:05] Tommy: Right.

[1:10:06] Jimi: And so Warner Brothers is stuck in this weird position where it's like, how do we make money off of our thing and its popularity? But we can't, you know, like we can't go on tour right now. We can't find a way to sell this show to the kids who want it beyond their Spotify listens.

[1:10:28] Tommy: Yeah. It's funny you say it's a good thing.

[1:10:32] Jimi: I think it's a good thing for musical theatre.

[1:10:34] Tommy: I don't, I think it's going to be a slow burn. But you know, it started with, it started with Hamilton's explosive popularity.

[1:10:42] Jimi: And they did. And they have found the way to capitalize on it. And now we're going to get the cinematic release of the original Broadway cast.

[1:10:51] Tommy: Right.

[1:10:51] Jimi: Yes. That wouldn't have happened if it didn't have its explosive popularity. And because this is now a new trend line that marketers can see as a possibility, they're going to start preparing for it.

[1:11:03] Tommy: But I think this is what I'm worried about.

[1:11:05] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:11:06] Tommy: Because it's interesting that you, I'm going to jump on your analogy of the child that talked about the commodification of their bedroom.

[1:11:17] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:11:18] Tommy: Or their dining table, whatever. And like, now, Broadway isn't on Broadway.

[1:11:28] Jimi: I know.

[1:11:28] Tommy: Right.

[1:11:29] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:11:29] Tommy: And Broadway, I realize this is kind of in contrast. So I'm taking Broadway back.

[1:11:36] Jimi: I mean, musical theatre.

[1:11:37] Tommy: Sure.

[1:11:39] Jimi: And what I'm worried about is that it's like, hang on, I can be a runaway commercial success.

[1:11:46] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:11:46] Jimi: Even if I don't get on a stage in New York.

[1:11:49] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:11:50] Jimi: Okay. How do I do that?

[1:11:52] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:11:53] Jimi: I appeal to kids.

[1:11:54] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:11:55] Jimi: Okay. I'm going to write that.

[1:11:57] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:11:58] Jimi: But so.

[1:11:59] Tommy: Sure.

[1:12:00] Jimi: The worry that I have is that it's not producers that are doing this now. It goes down to the point where it's like, I need to write the next TikTok hit.

[1:12:12] Tommy: Sure.

[1:12:12] Jimi: What's my TikTok song?

[1:12:14] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:12:14] Jimi: Do you know what I mean? I want song is out the window. It's what's the TikTok song?

[1:12:19] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:12:19] Jimi: That's the fear that I have.

[1:12:21] Tommy: I see that.

[1:12:24] Jimi: I think what I find exciting, and I don't disagree. Like, I think we're going to see. God, I can't think of the name of it. What was that show about teenage suicide that kids found so popular?

[1:12:39] Tommy: Tethers?

[1:12:39] Jimi: No, the television show. I keep coming.

[1:12:42] Tommy: Oh, 13 Reasons Why.

[1:12:44] Jimi: 13 Reasons Why. I kept thinking Eight Simple Rules, and that's a different.

[1:12:48] Tommy: Very, very, very different.

[1:12:49] Jimi: But like 13 Reasons Why, or what's the one with the Sprouse kid in it?

[1:12:56] Tommy: See, this is now how old I am.

[1:12:58] Jimi: Riverdale.

[1:12:59] Tommy: Riverdale.

[1:12:59] Jimi: I've got you on there.

[1:13:01] Tommy: Thank you. We're going to see now, because of this, Riverdale, the musical, or 13 Reasons Why, the musical, because of that teen sort of thing.

[1:13:12] Jimi: But this is something that started back in Spring Awakening, is the appealing to teenagers, right?

[1:13:18] Tommy: Absolutely.

[1:13:20] Jimi: Absolutely.

[1:13:20] Tommy: But it was, from an artistic standpoint, do you know what I mean? Like, there was still artistic thought going into these things.

[1:13:32] Jimi: When your thing is this kind of mass appeal, six seconds, sell, sell, sell.

[1:13:38] Tommy: I think it's ranted. I don't like it.

[1:13:39] Jimi: I don't like this fast paced. You've got 240 characters. You've got six seconds.

[1:13:43] Tommy: Right.

[1:13:45] Jimi: Sell me your thing.

[1:13:46] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:13:46] Jimi: That is, you know, literally being programmed into children's brains.

[1:13:50] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:13:52] Jimi: I don't like that, because that doesn't fit a musical theater.

[1:13:55] Tommy: Right.

[1:13:56] Jimi: You know what I mean?

[1:13:58] Tommy: It is the tightrope, because I do think, generally, teenagers know when they're being pandered to, except when they don't.

[1:14:07] Jimi: Right.

[1:14:08] Tommy: And I think that is, you're right. That's the trap that we might fall into. And it depends on how good or bad people will be at it. I feel like I'm only just waking up to how addicted I am to my phone. And you know what I mean? I'm slowly but surely working through that and deleting things. And when you're young, and it's literally what you're birthed with, you don't realize it, because it's one and the same to you. You don't remember the before. There was no before.

[1:14:34] Jimi: But is there—I guess this is, you know, the thesis question—is it wrong to like something just because it was written for you to like it?

[1:14:53] Jimi: I am a producer, and I am looking for the next buck that I'm going to make. Sure, I get a look at this lovely high art piece that, sure, they've worked very hard at it. It's fucking brilliant. But to be honest, there's nothing there that I could dilute into six seconds and have someone perform on TikTok. So I'm not going to go with that. Whereas this thing over here has that like fun edgy sound. Yeah, that we've heard a lot. You know, it might be from a franchise like that. Like, sure, I'll go with that. Yeah. But I may be being very cynical here. Absolutely. But I think it's a, it's just a trend that just seems to continue on. And I think it's going to, like this, because there's like Broadway.com generation that we've talked about, right, of the kids and like, Spring Awakening, fantastic.

And it did birth a new vibe on Broadway. And it did bring a lot of new people to it. And that is fantastic. But it's no kind of getting ahead of itself. And it's realising what it can be. And that when it gets self-referential, that's when it falls apart. I don't know.

[1:16:05] Tommy: Yeah, it's tricky, because like, obviously, my dream is everyone loves musical theatre, and everyone creates musical theatre and everyone analyses musical theatre and discusses it. There's my utopia. But what I wonder is, all these kids who are, you know, Beetlejuice made me fall in love with musical theatre. Beetlejuice makes me want to be an actor. I've seen these things. Yeah. And it's like, and I found out on TikTok, like, for these kids, yeah, who are saying that, you know, five years down the line, what world are they going to be us? Yeah, like, are they going to be, right? Are they going to be purchasing textbooks on musical theatre? Because it's a hobby, right? Like, or, or, like, what art are they going to create?

If this is their entry point into it? Or are they gonna keep looking for the things that are easy? Because I mean, again, I may be being cynical here, these people might be instantly going away and listening to Passion and be like, right, God, like, Donna Murphy, she's the best, perhaps. But I wonder, are these kids who say, I love musical theatre, musical theatre is the best? Is it the same when we were falling in love with musical theatre, where it was like, I love musical theatre. Wicked is the best, right?

[1:17:27] Jimi: Right? Yeah, it's like, yes, love it. But remember, yeah, there's a whole other, like, 50, 60, 70 years of stuff. I think that'll happen. Because I remember being I love musical theatre, Wicked is the best.

[1:17:42] Tommy: Yeah, yeah. But my senior, my senior year of high school, it's trickier now, it's trickier now to not be handed, right? Because the next thing that you have to love, because the marketing is so subversive to the thing, down to the creation of the thing, right?

[1:18:02] Jimi: Yes. And we're better at it now. Like, to go back, the original Willy Wonka movie was mostly sponsored by Nestle. Like, it's a two-hour long commercial for candy. Yeah. With some songs thrown in. Now, the songs are great. And the movie is beloved, right? Is it poisonous that it was, you know, made by the Quaker Oats company? Like, right.

[1:18:31] Tommy: I know, I know. I don't know. I don't know. I just worry. Like, I worry. I do worry. Yeah. But again, it's probably a losing battle anyway, because it certainly we've fostered a lovely community in the podcast, right? And we know the nerds are right there.

[1:18:47] Jimi: Absolutely. It's great. But I would love to find a way that we can birth new nerds.

[1:18:54] Tommy: Right. I want new. And I don't think that is going to come through watching six-second videos of people mediocrely lip-syncing to "Say My Name" from Beetlejuice.

[1:19:07] Jimi: Yeah. People end up in musical theatre in weird ways. I think the thing that would make me more comfortable is like, I wish they had to put the Warner Brothers logo on the marquee. I wish, like, you know, it's okay to be marketed to as long as there's a little asterisk in the corner. And you know, like, yeah, let an end to still allow that art to happen. You know, that's the whole industrial history of Broadway, right? Like, Maytag washing machines, Maytag washing machines is a terrible song, but kept a bunch of composers employed, right? And so this kind of tenuous balance between corporate overlords and the art makers, right? Christian Borle made a lot of money off of Willy Wonka.

[1:20:10] Tommy: Absolutely. And it allows him to do other great things and star in seven shows at once on Broadway. Alex Brightman has taken a big old break from acting. He's now just going back to Oklahoma and writing because of Beetlejuice.

[1:20:18] Jimi: Right. And there's nothing wrong with that. I know. And it is hard to do. Do you know what? It's just that thing. It's just that thing. It's like there is so much out there that's really, really good and it won't get a look in because they focus more on the craft than the marketing.

[1:20:36] Tommy: Yeah. And that's the I think that's the thing, because I'm like, that's a shame. But I guess not how it should be. I guess until we have a world where all of the until people who write Broadway musicals are closer to Disney Channel stars, where they're like, you know, made in a test tube and manufactured from birth, I'm still kind of OK with it. Like the Disney sound is Alan Menken. And there's no way Aladdin or any of his other shows would have sounded as good or he would have been even picked up by Disney if Little Shop wasn't awesome. And so these it's not like Bob Iger is writing Mary Poppins, the musical.

[1:21:23] Jimi: Right. They're still picking up on talent and giving them a place to express within their corporate bounds. And they still get to push those bounds a little bit and find ways to live within the art form. And like it's the Broadway world we're stuck in because these shows are expensive now.

[1:21:37] Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. I guess maybe that's it. Maybe like we've talked about this episode about finding the alternate universe. Yeah. Maybe we need to create a pocket wormhole.

[1:21:49] Jimi: Yeah. Where we can all jump through and find, you know, I will say this is this is bittersweet, but the you know, I try to avoid covid talk, but trigger warning for a second coming out of this pandemic, theatres are going to be looking for cheaper shows because we're going to be in a global depression and art is going to be difficult to make and all of these things. And, you know, a world of cheaper shows might bode well for some of this stuff, you know, because you don't need pyrotechnics and puppets and, you know, you can just get away with a couple people on stage and a good story and a couple good songs. And that might be kind of nice for a little while.

[1:22:36] Jimi: Yeah. Well, that's the thing is like out of horrible things comes great art.

[1:22:42] Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. That is the eternal pattern. So, yeah, maybe I will get to eat my words. I mean, wouldn't it be in a decade we start seeing everyone's quarantine musicals and what wonderful things they were able to come up with?

[1:22:59] Jimi: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And maybe they'll literally all be from TikTok. I will be to be honest, I would love to be proven wrong. TikTok the musical. I said we said it makes me feel sick. I said it out loud. I said it out loud. It's it's, you know, sorry. Sorry, everyone. Six seconds long. I mean, it'll be literally with the gum in the mouth. I'm so angry.

[1:23:24] Tommy: This is so angry that your TikTok is going to be acting tips for TikTok teens. But the way I would do that, because my ideas, right, I was like, I would literally be Logan Paul, like levels of fame here because I was like the quality of the stuff that I thought of in my head on TikTok far outweighs like I'm like, if that's literal, it takes I do that on a daily basis. All you have to do is stick a camera in front of my face. Jesus. It's the commodification of all your free time. Nonsense, dark, horrid.

[1:23:56] Jimi: Can I put this? Can I say this out loud? Because we put this in our show notes. Every article about how Beetlejuice is popular amongst teenagers cites this statistic, and it says that 70.79% of audience members of Beetlejuice are between the ages of 19 and 54, which is a not useful metric.

[1:24:16] Tommy: It is not. Sorry, 54 to 70 year olds. This isn't for you. The difference between a 54 year old and a 19 year old.

[1:24:29] Jimi: Exactly. That's nonsense.

[1:24:31] Tommy: That's wild. I mean, it's literally 35 years.

[1:24:36] Jimi: Yeah. It's older than both of us.

[1:24:40] Tommy: To say like, and this proves that Beetlejuice has appeal amongst a younger Broadway audience.

[1:24:46] Jimi: I know. No. Causation. No. No. No way. Correlation does not equal causation.

[1:24:54] Tommy: It's more like you don't need to just say, just do the TikTok thing. You don't need to put a statistic. And I'm sure it's because whatever checkbox they have, or they're combining two different age groups, like really it's 60% are between 30 and 54 and 10% are between 19 and 29. But if they combine it together to make it 70%, like just stop.

[1:25:18] Jimi: I know. Who are you trying to convince?

[1:25:21] Tommy: Who's going to look at that statistic and be like, oh, well, I've got to go see Beetlejuice now. This is the show for the kids.

[1:25:27] Jimi: The show for the kids. Quick, honey. My cane.

[1:25:30] Tommy: My 52-year-old children.

[1:25:34] Jimi: My grown daughter will love Beetlejuice.

[1:25:37] Tommy: Exactly. Is she on TikTok? Probably. This is a new character I'm developing. It's old, old fogey vaudevillian Broadway audience member.

[1:25:47] Jimi: We'll get a name for them soon.

[1:25:49] Tommy: Excellent.

[1:25:50] Jimi: This will be the long ARG of Jim and Tomic.

[1:25:55] Tommy: Right. Absolutely. Hey, to round it all off, I say, listen, Beetlejuice on its own is real neat. And Beetlejuice in the world that it's created is really scary.

[1:26:13] Jimi: Somehow true, both of the meta-analysis of Beetlejuice and of Beetlejuice himself.

[1:26:20] Tommy: Exactly.

[1:27:06] Jimi: Jimmy, that was Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice.

[1:27:45] Tommy: That was something we didn't get to talk about, actually, was how he does the voice. Very, very smart. If you're interested at all in vocal health and just the voice in general, I'll put some stuff in the show notes. Fascinating.

[1:27:53] Jimi: It is. His whole performance is fascinating.

[1:27:56] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:27:57] Jimi: I do think-

[1:27:57] Tommy: Andy Serkis was like, wish I knew that when I was doing Gollum.

[1:28:01] Jimi: I thought you were going to say, I wish Andy Serkis was like, I wish I auditioned for that part.

[1:28:05] Tommy: And now I'm just imagining Andy Serkis as Beetlejuice.

[1:28:08] Jimi: Yes. Oh, weirdly, also, Andy Serkis was King Kong.

[1:28:13] Tommy: Full circle.

[1:28:13] Jimi: Full circle.

[1:28:15] Tommy: Andy Serkis is the king of musical theatre. That's what it means.

[1:28:18] Jimi: You have a quiz question for us.

[1:28:20] Tommy: I do. I do, indeed. Speaking of Andy Serkis, this movie-

[1:28:24] Jimi: I'm not talking.

[1:28:25] Tommy: The movie adaptation of this musical starred Academy Award winner Olivia Colman and Academy Award nominee Tom Hardy.

[1:28:30] Jimi: Wow.

[1:28:36] Tommy: Everyone will have seen it.

[1:28:37] Jimi: Must be a biggin'.

[1:28:39] Tommy: It's huge.

[1:28:41] Jimi: Or is it?

[1:28:43] Tommy: If you want to get in touch with us, you absolutely can. And please do hit us up on Twitter and Instagram at Jim and Tomic.

[1:28:51] Jimi: Or you can check out the show notes in your podcatcher right now or at jimandtomic.com.

[1:28:54] Tommy: And while you're there, you can check out our Patreon if you'd like to financially support the show. Thank you, of course, to all of our current patrons.

[1:29:02] Jimi: Also, reviews on Apple Podcasts and elsewhere is always fantastic. And we love you all and adore you all.

[1:29:07] Tommy: Yeah, you're all the absolute best.

[1:29:10] Jimi: But hey, most of all, it really, really helps us out if you say to your friends, hey, I've been listening to this podcast in lockdown. It wells away many, many hours. You should check it out.

[1:29:15] Tommy: We've got a huge back catalogue that'll kill a whole week if you need it.

[1:29:26] Jimi: Literally.

[1:29:27] Tommy: So yeah, please tell your friends. That would be fabulous.

[1:29:30] Jimi: Absolutely.

[1:29:31] Tommy: Hey, thanks for listening.

[1:29:32] Jimi: Cheers!

[1:29:33] Tommy: Cheers!

[1:29:34] Jimi: Yes, let's stopy-stop.