This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jimi: How did we get from drag race to Marvel?

[0:02] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: We've talked about, we talked about alternate universes.

[0:05] Jimi: Oh, that's what it was.

[0:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, okay.

[0:08] Jimi: Because that makes sense.

[0:10] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That tracks, alternate universes.

[0:12] Jimi: That does.

[0:14] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Okay.

[0:14] Jimi: Somebody get us another drink.

[0:16] Jimi: Welcome to Jim and Tomic's Musical Theatre Happy Hour. I am Jimi.

[0:20] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And I am Tommy, and this is the only musical theater podcast with XLR and PBR.

[0:26] Jimi: Uh, did you know they made up the award for Pabst Blue Ribbon beer?

[0:30] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: This is my Chicago trivia.

[0:33] Jimi: What's it mean?

[0:34] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It was at the World's Fair in the 20s, maybe. There's a beer competition, but they decided they didn't want there to be a competition of a bunch of drunk people.

[0:42] Jimi: Um, so the judges said basically everyone wins, and Pabst was like, well, that's no good. We award ourselves the blue ribbon.

[0:52] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And they still have been running on that advertisement as like awarded the blue ribbon at the Chicago World's Fair, which is not untrue, but is very misleading.

[1:01] Jimi: The Charlatans.

[1:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I'll never drink them again.

[1:07] Jimi: They go XLR, one for our tech listeners.

[1:10] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I love which, yeah.

[1:12] Jimi: Man, I have so many I could talk about connectors for far too long.

[1:16] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Say the thing.

[1:17] Jimi: Different podcast.

[1:19] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Here we take apart your favorite shows, muddle them together with a shot of buffoonery.

[1:37] Jimi: I'd pour you a refreshing glass of musical theater conversation.

[1:42] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Thomas, what are you drinking today?

[1:46] Jimi: Uh, let's see if I can do this. Probably some swamp juice.

[1:52] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That wasn't too bad.

[1:54] Jimi: Right?

[1:55] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Actually, do you know what? In all of your Scottish impressions, that's in the top five.

[2:00] Jimi: That's well, uh, is it good or bad that it was an impression of the big green man?

[2:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yes, no, but he's Scottish.

[2:08] Jimi: He is Scottish.

[2:11] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's just I wouldn't, I wouldn't if I was making a list of Scottish icons, I probably wouldn't include Shrek.

[2:18] Jimi: Well, nor would I, because it's voiced by a Canadian man.

[2:22] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[2:23] Jimi: So, not really Scottish in any way, but it is a Scottish accent.

[2:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And Mike Meyers has a very good Scottish accent.

[2:30] Jimi: Yeah, that's true. Have you seen, uh, And So I Married an Axe Murderer?

[2:35] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I have not seen And So I Married an Axe Murderer.

[2:37] Jimi: He does a Scottish accent in that. He also does a Scotty accent in Austin Powers when he plays Fat Bastard.

[2:43] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yep.

[2:43] Jimi: Now that's a Scottish icon.

[2:49] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I mean, kind of. Anyway, what are we on about? Quiz question to follow.

[2:53] Jimi: The late great talk show host and TV personality Regis Philbin made up for three hours to play this musical's title character, even though he was never cast in the role.

[3:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And very different from Jagged Little Pill.

[3:06] Jimi: I think everyone got this.

[3:07] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Everyone got this, which is great.

[3:08] Jimi: Which means everyone's seen one of the most beautiful YouTube clips in the world.

[3:11] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Uh, which will absolutely begin the show notes.

[3:14] Jimi: Yeah, absolutely will. Um, hey, we are gonna be talking all about Shrek.

[3:19] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Once upon a time, there was a little ogre named Shrek who lived with his parents in a bog by a tree.

[3:26] Jimi: It was a pretty nasty place, but he was happy because ogres like nasty.

[3:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: On his birthday, the little ogre's parents sat him down to talk, just as all ogre parents had for hundreds of years before.

[3:41] Jimi: Listen, son, you're growing up so quickly.

[3:49] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Growing up.

[3:57] Jimi: Although we want to hear the rules are very clear. Now you're seven.

[4:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Now you're seven. So it's time to go away.

[4:09] Jimi: Should I like amp up my Scottish?

[4:13] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Shrek.

[4:14] Jimi: How do you eat? Do you feel it is like Shrek is supposed to be gross and ogre-esque, and that they chose a Scottish accent for the thing?

[4:25] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Although I believe, and this is lost in musical theater in, uh, and movie trivia land, but I think there was something like Mike Myers originally had a different accent he was using that he decided was terrible far too late, and they had to re-record everything.

[4:40] Jimi: But there's no Scottish accent.

[4:42] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I think that's true. I know they also, it might be conflated with the fact that Chris Farley was supposed to be Shrek, but then passed away.

[4:48] Jimi: Yes, I didn't know that.

[4:49] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And then they had to re-record a bunch of that, but I think they had to re-record again.

[4:53] Jimi: Because Mike might be a little bit more interesting.

[4:56] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Dickish.

[4:57] Jimi: I think it works. Cause it for me it's kind of like a sort of more of a folky vibe.

[5:02] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Because it's actually a very nice Scottish accent.

[5:04] Jimi: Uh huh. It's little T. I am a, this is, I'm gonna have this out of body experience as we do this podcast, and very scholarly, in a very specific way, pull apart the movie and musical Shrek.

[5:19] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You're dumb right you are.

[5:22] Jimi: That's what we do.

[5:24] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Shrek.

[5:25] Jimi: Oh god.

[5:26] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You sound, that was a better Scottish accent than mine.

[5:29] Jimi: So there's a reason that that's the case.

[5:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I am Scottish.

[5:35] Jimi: So you haven't told me all these years.

[5:39] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Some people think that you're Canadian?

[5:41] Jimi: Some people think I'm Canadian.

[5:43] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's fantastic. Well.

[5:47] Jimi: How?

[5:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I, you know? Anyway.

[5:49] Jimi: Um, Shrek the Musical.

[5:53] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, music by Jeanine Tesori and lyrics by Mr. David Lindsay-Abaire. It's based on the movie Shrek, which is based on a children's book, Shrek.

[6:02] Jimi: Um, Shrek.

[6:04] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Shrek.

[6:04] Jimi: We're never gonna get past that.

[6:07] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Uh, it opened on Broadway in December 14th, 2008, played for I think a little over a year.

[6:12] Jimi: Um, then was hugely revamped.

[6:15] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Maybe not hugely, was updated in a bunch of ways, toured the US, uh, made it to the West End, had a couple, I think two US tours, um, and is now a hugely popular high school show, let me tell you.

[6:27] Jimi: V, v popular.

[6:30] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yes. And it was also filmed.

[6:31] Jimi: Yes, it was.

[6:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You can watch the pro shot on Netflix right now.

[6:34] Jimi: That's the, it's the original Broadway production, which is interesting because of the changes that happened in the touring production.

[6:41] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And it's hard. I can't think of similar because the changes that were made were very much improvements or attempts at improvements as opposed to like shake ups or let's insert a new song, why not?

[6:54] Jimi: Um, and I can't think of another example where like the pro shot is of the pre-revised version, you know?

[7:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Hmm.

[7:05] Jimi: Yeah, neither can I.

[7:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[7:06] Jimi: It's also, have you, you've watched the pro shot, yeah?

[7:09] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I have indeed.

[7:10] Jimi: I have indeed. It's not a great pro shot.

[7:13] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I was thinking that when I was rewatching it.

[7:15] Jimi: It, it, there's just like cinematically, there are parts of it. Maybe I'm spoiled by how good the Hamilton pro shot was.

[7:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But it just doesn't capture a lot of bits.

[7:25] Jimi: It is dark the whole time. It's like not well lit for television.

[7:29] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Well, when was it filmed again?

[7:31] Jimi: Uh, while it was on Broadway, so to think of it though like that in terms of staged pro shots we see, we still didn't have a vast amount.

[7:41] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I mean, we had the Song Times, we had Woods and Sweeney and Sunday.

[7:46] Jimi: They also come, they also come with, that's true and they're not, but you know, and they're of a different era.

[7:51] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But it is, and like this one certainly for the first time had like those like big sweeping shots.

[7:55] Jimi: Yeah, and like they, they clearly all the applause is dubbed, um, you know, whether they filmed ever with an audience I would doubt, um, definitely a house audience one night.

[8:07] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Exactly, and definitely a ton of the shots are like cameraman standing on stage for a close up in a way that you wouldn't do with an audience there.

[8:13] Jimi: No.

[8:14] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And there's even some mugging.

[8:15] Jimi: Yeah, oh absolutely, so that, uh, is the life of Shrek.

[8:22] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, um, Tommy, do you want to tell us what it is?

[8:26] Jimi: Once upon a time, um, I don't know what that would mean. I should stop doing voices.

[8:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, Shrek is a send up of kind of the traditional fairy tale and really Disney World tropes, uh, which is fascinating. I like this underscoring this is gonna be hard to, I'm gonna keep it going. I'm excited for you to try and cut this back together if I screw up what I'm saying.

[8:52] Jimi: No, no, no, no, Shrek was, Shrek the Movie was actually, I believe, the first movie to come out of, uh, DreamWorks Studios, um, which was founded by Jeffrey Katzenberg after he left Disney, um, who worked on a ton of, he was part of the Golden Age.

[9:12] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: He worked on like Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin and Lion King.

[9:15] Jimi: Um, spun off from Disney, made his own company and made Shrek as very much a send up of not only Disney movies, but even just kind of the Disney Enterprise itself.

[9:26] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, it follows Shrek the Ogre, who is, uh, everything a fairy tale hero isn't. Um, he's a gross ogre who doesn't want to fraternize with anybody.

[9:38] Jimi: Um, when suddenly and unexpectedly, uh, every fairy tale creature you've ever heard of moves into his swamp because they've all been evicted by Lord Farquaad.

[9:48] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, the short, uh, uh ruler of the kingdom.

[9:53] Jimi: Um, and so Shrek goes on an adventure to, uh, first yell at, uh, Lord Farquaad to get everyone off of his land, ends up meeting Princess Fiona, who is, uh, to on behalf of the Lord to make them marry, but then falls in love with her, and she secretly is an ogre at night, and there's some, you know, fairy tale bullshit about how true love's kiss will change her into love's true form, and it ends up changing her into her ogre form as opposed to her, uh, normal form.

[10:20] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And it's a, it's a show about how you know you can find love no matter what you look like, um, and how you know fairy tales aren't everything they're cracked up to be, even though it then becomes a subversive fairy tale plot at the end.

[10:33] Jimi: Like they do live happily ever after.

[10:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But their version is happy.

[10:38] Jimi: Yeah, yes, in the mud.

[10:39] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yes, in the mud in the swamp.

[10:41] Jimi: So that was the movie, and then DreamWorks Theatricals.

[10:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Uh, which I don't, you know, what else has DreamWorks Theatricals done?

[10:51] Jimi: Um, they have now done The Prince of Egypt, which is another story.

[10:55] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I forgot that happened.

[10:56] Jimi: Um, spun it up into a Broadway musical.

[10:59] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Uh, with Brian d'Arcy James.

[11:01] Jimi: With Brian d'Arcy James and Sutton Foster.

[11:04] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, it's very much of all the like animated movies to stage adaptation. This one's as one for one as you get, I think.

[11:16] Jimi: Yes.

[11:19] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, that was good.

[11:20] Jimi: Well done.

[11:21] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Thank you.

[11:21] Jimi: I couldn't have done that better.

[11:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You could have done it with a better Scottish accent, though.

[11:26] Jimi: Shrek!

[11:28] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Uh, Fiona.

[11:30] Jimi: Uh, yeah.

[11:31] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Okay. Well, I think the time has come.

[11:34] Jimi: Are you sitting comfortably?

[11:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: No, I'll begin.

[11:37] Jimi: That's the send up of Watch with Mother, which was a British children's television show.

[11:44] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: So you go.

[11:46] Jimi: Feature one of the shows on that was called Muffin the Mule.

[11:49] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's man, man.

[11:51] Jimi: You want Muffin.

[11:53] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Muffin the Mule.

[11:55] Jimi: British people do not know how to name things.

[11:58] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Muffin.

[11:59] Jimi: Muffin the, it's such, everything sounds like an innuendo.

[12:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Probably was.

[12:05] Jimi: We're British.

[12:08] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Ow!

[12:09] Jimi: Muffin the Mule!

[12:11] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: God, it's me, Fiona.

[12:15] Jimi: It's me, Feol No!

[12:22] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Now I know he'll appear.

[12:26] Jimi: Cause there are rules and there are strictures.

[12:30] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I believe the story books I be.

[12:34] Jimi: I can delight.

[12:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: My white night.

[12:37] Jimi: My night is deed.

[12:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Will look just like these pictures.

[12:43] Jimi: It won't be long now.

[12:46] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I guarantee.

[12:49] Jimi: J number 23.

[12:55] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: 8,000 400.

[13:01] Jimi: 23.

[13:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I know it's today.

[13:05] Jimi: I know it's, I know it's today.

[13:09] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I love it's, I know it's today.

[13:12] Jimi: I know it's today.

[13:17] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Let's start with the film.

[13:19] Jimi: Let's start with the film.

[13:20] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Not explicitly a musical.

[13:22] Jimi: Um, there's only a musical at all.

[13:25] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: There's not a music at all.

[13:26] Jimi: There's one diegetic song.

[13:28] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, and then they sing, uh, Welcome to Duloc in the movie.

[13:32] Jimi: Yes.

[13:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, and then it is also known for having both, um, uh, I'm a Believer and the song that didn't make the musical, Hallelujah, which is probably a good thing.

[13:45] Jimi: Can you imagine?

[13:46] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Can you imagine? That would be brilliant.

[13:49] Jimi: Yes. It is, I will say, rewatching the animated movie, the Hallelujah segment, and it's like, you know, Shrek and Fiona have had their falling out, it's like a Three's Company problem. They misheard, you know, each other the wrong way, and now Fiona's gonna go get married somewhat begrudgingly to Farquaad, and Shrek goes back to his lonely swamp and feels lonely for the first time. But just the cinematic cuts when they're both like sitting at the table and it pans around and the match move and like cut to what is now a very tropish song but wasn't at the time, um, Hallelujah, yeah, it's really moving for this weird movie. The soundtrack of Shrek the movie is really good.

[14:30] Jimi: I will, I think I really like Shrek the movie.

[14:35] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Okay, that's what I was gonna ask you. Yeah, do you like Shrek the movie?

[14:38] Jimi: Just a bit. I just did. I think I was the right age when it came out. We were absolutely just on the tail end of enjoying Disney films, which we absolutely did as kids, but then being able to recognize enough of the Disney, you know, stand-ups that happen in this thing and being able to pick up on some of the adult jokes, but not all of the adult jokes.

[14:59] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yep, yep, yep, still appreciating the dirty humor, yeah, like that kind of stuff.

[15:03] Jimi: Yeah, um, yeah, because like this at this point in kind of cinema history, like Pixar Animation Studios was really getting into a stride. Like this came out the same year as Monsters, Inc. Um, so we'd had a few. Um, so like we were getting used to right 3D animated movies becoming like a thing.

[15:26] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[15:26] Jimi: Um, but because Shrek was from a different studio, it had its very own style of animation and it was stunningly beautiful.

[15:35] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, like that's my main memory of Shrek is just how goddam beautiful it was, right? Um, because there was something while, um, Pixar were kind of going for the cartoony vibe, yeah, at that time.

[15:49] Jimi: Um, Shrek really kind of bordered, not naturalistic, but more naturalistic than anything we had seen before. I mean, like, we hadn't seen other than maybe Andy and Sid in Toy Story. We hadn't seen a big, like, here's a bunch of humans and humanoids. Um, which was hard to do at the time, you know. We're still years before The Incredibles, which also, The Incredibles are very stylized humans, and like this one, apart from having fairy tale creatures, also just has like people, just like townspeople, as people, and they are just people, and Fiona, you know, leading character that is most of the time just a humanoid person.

[16:28] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, exactly.

[16:30] Jimi: Um, and like, but really what I, so it was Lucas Films, I think apparently that helped them out, which kind of makes a lot of sense. Um, but yes, so I mean, I love the film, the Mitchell family, we loved that film.

[16:41] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, it was one of those things that was one of the first DVDs I bought because it was around that time as well.

[16:49] Jimi: Um, and you know, listened, downloaded the Shrek and the Salt karaoke dance party off Napster, yeah, like that kind of, you know.

[16:56] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I mean, it was very that, yeah era, yeah.

[17:00] Jimi: Um, yeah, absolutely love it. So that like as a precursor to Shrek the Musical, I think may have, you know, I didn't, I couldn't come at it from a fresh perspective.

[17:14] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, when it is, and when we talk more about the musical, I want to talk about this more, but I do think Shrek the Musical is one of the most guilty ones of this phenomenon where no one is going to see the musical who doesn't have at least some cultural knowledge of its basis, you know, in the same way that like no one's gonna go see Suessical, not knowing that the Cat in the Hat is a thing, right?

[17:38] Jimi: Well, I did.

[17:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Really?

[17:42] Jimi: Yeah, to be honest, like not nearly to the extent, like I think I knew it existed and I knew The Grinch.

[17:48] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Okay.

[17:49] Jimi: And that's about it.

[17:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Fair.

[17:50] Jimi: You know what I mean?

[17:51] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[17:51] Jimi: But no, I didn't, I've never read the stories because like I said before, we don't really like, it's not as big a reader.

[17:57] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[17:58] Jimi: But even, and like Suessical is still generally a newish story. Whereas Shrek the Musical is Shrek the movie, uh, like adapted almost exactly. Um, because it was such a cultural phenomenon, I would wager that very few, unless you were like an eight-year-old going to see it, and so it is your first way into Shrek, you know, maybe then it's brand new, but by and large, people are going to see the musical because of the movie.

[18:30] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You know?

[18:30] Jimi: Like that's, I think so. But then I was quite surprised because a lot of the stuff I read, um, from big fans of the show, well, they said they'd never seen the film before.

[18:41] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, yeah.

[18:43] Jimi: And so I don't know whether they knew it from like just, which I still don't understand Shrek the meme, whatever that is, because apparently this is a meme. What is that? Can you actually explain to it? Because I genuinely don't understand.

[18:54] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I mean, Shrek is, do you like Shrek is love, Shrek is life, is a very popular video.

[19:00] Jimi: Okay, is weird.

[19:01] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: No clue.

[19:02] Jimi: Um, Shrek certainly has this status as internet meme fodder. Um, which I'm, you know, I'm sure you could trace back if you wanted to get all, uh, anthropological about it. I have not pulled up with whatever the relevant Know Your Meme page is. But, uh, there is, you know, there's a whole, it's actually beautiful to watch. I think it's called Shrek Remade.

[19:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, on YouTube, which is a fan-made film version of all of Shrek, and it's like 200 creators came together and recreated the entire film, but with a new spin on it.

[19:42] Jimi: Um, in a variety of mediums, it cuts from like live action to claymation to traditional hand animation. Some of it's beautifully artistic, some of it is weird. Um, and it comes out of, um, oh, and there's a second one. I didn't even know that.

[19:56] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, there is a, I believe there is a, uh, a Shrek fan convention, um, of Shrek fans. Like there are, you know, I don't know what they call themselves, but there are Shrek heads.

[20:12] Jimi: Um, and like there is this phenomenon of Shrek existing as this like joke-telling device, both in relationship to the film and not, which even not knowing the specific history, I can kind of gork together how that works.

[20:29] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like, imagine who you were in the time when you saw Shrek and where the internet was and the kind of kids who would be into Shrek, and like the, I, you know, Shrek is infinitely quotable in ways that I think people forget they're doing.

[20:43] Jimi: Like how many times have you been like, ah, making waffles? Like, I forget that that's a Shrek quote.

[20:49] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, you know, and so you got that combined with just the beginning of like internet meme culture being a thing, and then those kinds of people all being the same person.

[21:03] Jimi: Right.

[21:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like I can see how that creates a, uh, a Shrek tornado of memes and interest, and then, you know, Shrek the Musical is based on Shrek one, but I believe there are four.

[21:16] Jimi: Um, and then a Christmas special and a couple, like this is a huge media franchise now.

[21:22] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, and so that's a lot of fodder for memes and references, and because the whole thing is so irreverent and is so referential in and of itself, it does seem to kind of spur that same recreative spirit.

[21:39] Jimi: Okay. That's what I'd say if you asked me to explain Shrek the meme.

[21:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Shrek the meme.

[21:45] Jimi: Like honestly, it never comes on our radar at all. And that's why, because I read this a lot about people being like, people don't like this because it's a meme show and it's, you know, Shrek's just a meme, and I was like, it's not a fantastic movie, like what are you talking about?

[21:59] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[21:59] Jimi: And so it's people not knowing this almost that it was a movie.

[22:04] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Well, um, I also say I think that informs a lot of the like fan ferocity around this musical.

[22:14] Jimi: Yeah.

[22:15] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Because if you hadn't seen the film, I think the musical would be stupendously funny.

[22:21] Jimi: Yeah, that's fair.

[22:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Because a lot of the best jokes are just taken straight from the film.

[22:27] Jimi: Yeah, whole hard.

[22:27] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Whereas like when I was watching it, the musical, I was like, I've heard this joke, and you're not doing anything new with it whatsoever.

[22:35] Jimi: It's the exact same thing, you're just putting it on a stage.

[22:37] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[22:38] Jimi: Um, so and also with like less good voice actors, right?

[22:42] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Exactly.

[22:43] Jimi: And you with kind of unnecessary songs thrown in, you know?

[22:46] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like, right, right.

[22:48] Jimi: So I, so that's kind of where I can see this weird discrepancy because I think it's a really polarizing show.

[22:54] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, absolutely.

[22:55] Jimi: I agree. I do not like the musical.

[22:57] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, I, I see it for what it's worth, um, but it's not something I enjoy watching or enjoy listening to.

[23:05] Jimi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't find it terribly memorable.

[23:07] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, and it's not because I don't like the movie, which I think is interesting.

[23:11] Jimi: Right, right, right, right. Because that's the thing, it's like I adore the movie.

[23:14] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like, I absolutely like got a special place in my heart is that kind of thing.

[23:19] Jimi: Um, and I think, I don't know, like for me, but well, do you think there's improving the musical?

[23:25] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Huh.

[23:26] Jimi: Like, look if you use the movie, do you think there's a way to improve the musical?

[23:29] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's such an, it's an interesting question. Cause I think for so this, the musical sits in these kind of franchise production seats, like that DreamWorks is trying to do what Disney did. Take their popular commodity and put it on stage.

[23:42] Jimi: Um, and what Disney had the candy to do, at least in their early stuff around this, was to change it. You know, Lion King on stage is not Lion King the movie.

[23:52] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's right, even Beauty and the Beast, which is maybe of its time the closest to its original, but still is wildly different.

[23:59] Jimi: Like they've sort of new content. They take advantage of the form. Whereas Shrek the Musical tries as much as possible using creative stage magic and illusions and things to replicate this CGI movie one for one.

[24:14] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, like SpongeBob doesn't even do that. You don't even see, like once you see the silhouette of the little sponge creature, and the rest they're just taking advantage of the form.

[24:25] Jimi: Um, and so like I think improving Shrek is almost what Shrek Retold does is like don't, don't do Shrek, you know, tell the story, but like Shrek's just a guy, but it's hard because the whole point is that it is so specifically tied to what Shrek looks like.

[24:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like that's a lot to do with the plot of the show and Fiona's transformation back and forth between Green Ogre and whatever.

[24:53] Jimi: Um, but like then I don't know, like if Green Shrek was legitimately grotesque and not a cartoon's idea of what is grotesque, I don't know if it works there.

[25:04] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You know, I don't know.

[25:05] Jimi: Well, I d, I think, I don't know. For me, like I don't think the costumes are the, I actually think the costumes are great.

[25:09] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I think the, I mean it's the one Tony that one was best costume.

[25:12] Jimi: Exactly.

[25:13] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, I think they are really, really good.

[25:15] Jimi: And I would say not, I, to clarify, I don't mean just the costumes, but the entire production design, you know, the gingerbread puppet, the dragon, which seems hugely problematic, the whole thing is an attempt to, you know, there's no stylism there.

[25:29] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Uh-huh.

[25:30] Jimi: Yeah, I, I agree. It's not looking for its own identity.

[25:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[25:34] Jimi: And I think that's why it, it kind of jars from it because I honestly just feel a bit like I've seen it.

[25:41] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[25:41] Jimi: And like you see, the songs I don't think do enough to give it a new life.

[25:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Well, I think the hardest thing is, is that like the whole point is that Shrek is an onion, has layers in the movie, and we spend the whole movie unpacking those layers before we can finally see, you know, the wholesome human being that Shrek is, right?

[26:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yes.

[26:06] Jimi: Um, because of the structure of musical theater, we have to, and they're putting these songs on it. We get a bunch of interior monologue from specifically Shrek.

[26:17] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And it's just kind of, uh, incongruent because we don't wanna see that until the end, until he gets his hero's turn.

[26:27] Jimi: And so to see it early on, to see him be sad or angry about something just doesn't fit.

[26:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, because I, yeah, I think, I think that is really, really close.

[26:37] Jimi: Like I don't know, for me there's something about the film, right, that it's so simple.

[26:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like it's so to, and quite melancholic.

[26:50] Jimi: Yeah. Do you know what I mean by that?

[26:51] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, it is a, it is a, I saw it on a, uh, actually game design YouTube channel, but there's a matrix in my brain of story descriptions that I'm finding very useful. Um, and it's like, it's a punnet square. Simple to simple stories told simply, simple stories told complexly, complex stories told simply, and complex stories told complexly. And that, that's a way to go at almost any piece of fiction.

[27:19] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And there's commentary to be said about all of it.

[27:21] Jimi: Like I think complex stories told complexly are never interesting.

[27:25] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But the other three could be, um, and I think Shrek is a simple story told complexly. Like I see, I would put it in simple simple.

[27:37] Jimi: Really, yeah, yeah, I guess well maybe because there's a spin on it but because I guess like simple simple would be your classic princess you know in fairy tale affair.

[27:49] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: So maybe yes adding that extra layer on the but but it's it but I do agree that the story itself is simple that and that something about it makes it melancholic and there's no like the complications that happen aren't like are are are just so easily baked into the story.

[28:08] Jimi: Um it's never like and now there's an earthquake.

[28:11] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You know.

[28:12] Jimi: Right.

[28:13] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like I even think some of the more contemporary uh like Disney style 3D animated, like uh Tangled even, which I think is subversive in its own right, is still like first it's in a journey adventure, but then they go back to a different place and it gets complicated by this thing or that twist and or an encounter of a new character, but like this whole story is you know, Farquad, Shrek, Fiona, and the Donkey.

[28:38] Jimi: Yeah, it's just a favorite, like that thing is it's just a nice yeah, it is a simple fairy to like it's it's great.

[28:43] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um so I think that's one of the things I think is a is missing a bit from the musical because the musical is such an assault in terms of everything, you know.

[28:53] Jimi: I mean, colors, songs, dialogue, screaming, um, it's it's all kind of taken up to a living.

[28:59] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[28:59] Jimi: Um whereas you don't really get that in Shrek.

[29:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like you've got the Chase scene from the castle, yeah, and that's like the most action there is in the whole thing.

[29:10] Jimi: And the rest of and I'm so glad you brought up the hallelujah scene because that is a perfect example of I think what makes Shrek as a concept so beautiful, yeah, that you can have this beautiful Rufus Wainwright moment, um, and Shrek by himself, and you understand it, like this is a man who thinks he should be lonely, yeah, because that's what he's being told, but he doesn't realize that actually there's so much more to this.

[29:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um that really human moment is so like it's very few and far between in the musical.

[29:49] Jimi: Yes.

[29:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And it does like the movie does such a wonderful thing of it the two songs we mentioned, starting off with um uh now I'm a believer, yeah.

[29:58] Jimi: Yeah oh yeah, all star.

[30:00] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um I forgot about all that it's all star.

[30:02] Jimi: Um with like maggots and mud and poop jokes and fart jokes and this gross, gross, like like bathroom humor opening.

[30:12] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And 65, 70 minutes later, you're like crying at Shrek.

[30:18] Jimi: Right, exactly.

[30:19] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You know, it and it works and it takes you on that journey, and the the the musical doesn't do that.

[30:25] Jimi: It just doesn't.

[30:27] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Well, that's uh and like I think people would argue like, well, there's who I'd be.

[30:31] Jimi: Yeah, like that's there's a small and like it comes out of nowhere.

[30:34] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, that's the thing for who I'd be.

[30:35] Jimi: Like, um, what's that the opening song?

[30:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: The big bright beautiful world, which is kind of his moment of being like, This is my life, and I'm not owed anything.

[30:43] Jimi: Right.

[30:44] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Fair enough, but there's just it's not sensitive enough, like it doesn't have that human side of Shrek.

[30:49] Jimi: Yeah, but you do see Arbor Degree, you see it in Who I'd Be.

[30:53] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[30:53] Jimi: Um, you kind of see it in When Words Fail, but that also still doesn't really feel in character.

[31:00] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like, um it's not ingrained enough in the story.

[31:05] Jimi: Yeah.

[31:05] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, and there's not he's not given enough time to be quiet, basically.

[31:11] Jimi: Like that's I mean, that's that's the thing is like Shrek just wants peace and quiet.

[31:15] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[31:15] Jimi: Like he likes the swamp where he's by himself and it's just quiet.

[31:18] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And it that just doesn't fit the musical genre because Shrek movie Shrek doesn't really want anything big until he figures it out three quarters of the way through the movie.

[31:31] Jimi: Yes, yes.

[31:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Well he doesn't want anything, he just wants a simple life.

[31:34] Jimi: Like he just wants nothing.

[31:35] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, like he starts off basically with the you know the same demeanor I have when I have to go to the DMV to get my license renewed.

[31:43] Jimi: Like this is just a stupid thing I have to do as part of my day.

[31:46] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Oh, and now here's another thing I get the and oh, who's this donkey?

[31:50] Jimi: I hate this, I hate this, and like we don't really even see redeeming qualities of Shrek, you know, he's not a lovable character until at least halfway through the movie.

[32:00] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, yeah, completely completely.

[32:02] Jimi: But then when he's like he's funny, but he's not likable.

[32:05] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: He's not like I'm on your side, I'm waiting for you, Shrek.

[32:07] Jimi: Right.

[32:08] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um and the the musical turns it like first we see child Shrek and the parents being like you know, your life's going to be hard.

[32:17] Jimi: Like it's straight in with the the like satire as well.

[32:21] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[32:22] Jimi: Whereas like that in its own way in the film is really layered, like the satire is it takes a minute to get there.

[32:28] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And it's such a good brand of funny in the film, like they pitch it so well.

[32:33] Jimi: Like it's to me, I think it's the best example of a kid's film for adults.

[32:37] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yes, 100%.

[32:39] Jimi: You know what I mean?

[32:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like my I think my dad loved it more than I did.

[32:43] Jimi: I I think it it reinvented that genre for the post-millennium audience.

[32:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like any movie today that's for kids and adults owes it to Shrek.

[32:51] Jimi: I I I would completely give you that.

[32:51] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Completely give you that.

[32:56] Jimi: Um yet, so with the musical, like having that straight from the get-go where it's like big barrel belly laughs, right?

[33:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You don't you're then not gonna be allowed that moment of slowing down and quiet because you've started so yeah, high.

[33:12] Jimi: I don't know, like, yeah, I think it's just it's it it it's tricky.

[33:17] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: So if you're thinking like how to fix it, it's like cut all the songs and make it a play.

[33:23] Jimi: No, but this is like listen to this is a weird fantasy moment, okay.

[33:27] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And it might well it do it doesn't work, but there's something in it, right?

[33:31] Jimi: What if the music of Shrek was in the style of once?

[33:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Hmm.

[33:39] Jimi: Tell me more.

[33:41] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Okay, so what I mean by that, I don't mean like the songs of once.

[33:45] Jimi: Right.

[33:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[33:46] Jimi: Obviously.

[33:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But that very folk, very um like quiet, cerebral, soft moment.

[33:57] Jimi: Yeah.

[33:57] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[33:58] Jimi: Like in like one still has its moments of like comedy, one still has its moments of sure beat.

[34:04] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[34:05] Jimi: And really kind of soaring.

[34:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, I think that would work.

[34:09] Jimi: Like, see if there was more who I'd be in the rest of it.

[34:13] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[34:15] Jimi: I think as a musical, yeah, it would work.

[34:17] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And then you keep that kind of biting satire in the book.

[34:22] Jimi: See, I think I would go the exact opposite way and have Shrek the Musicals happening on the stage, and to the right of the stage is a smaller stage where Smash Mouth is.

[34:35] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And I I mean this not in jest.

[34:37] Jimi: And this none of the songs are like they're all Smashmouth songs.

[34:42] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: They're all songs from the era that are perhaps vaguely related to what's going on, but that act as underscoring for the action on stage.

[34:52] Jimi: And pull the genre.

[34:54] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: So the film, basically.

[34:55] Jimi: Basically.

[34:56] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Just with more songs.

[34:58] Jimi: You wheel Rufus Wainwright out, he does his number, you get the eels out, they do their number.

[35:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[35:03] Jimi: Yeah, fair.

[35:04] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, yeah, I mean that would also work, but then that's just the film.

[35:07] Jimi: I'm trying to be, you know, create Tommy.

[35:09] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I'd like to create.

[35:11] Jimi: Um I think, yeah, the other thing for me where I'm a bit like, uh, is it goes back to this idea of like the musical having its own identity um in specifically with the characters.

[35:26] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[35:27] Jimi: Um I think it actually, I actually think it nails it with Farquad.

[35:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[35:33] Jimi: It w it's been interesting to see, and I think, and you know, screw him, but Ben Brantley's review had something along the lines of that Farquad is funny before he becomes tiring.

[35:44] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And I don't agree.

[35:46] Jimi: I just I just I think it's always funny.

[35:48] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[35:48] Jimi: He's my absolute favorite thing in that show.

[35:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And it and like the point, it's a joke in the movie that he's short, and it becomes an even further joke in the musical because he's short and doing this weird on his knees, you know, it's a trick, quote unquote, but everyone knows how you're doing it, and they play with that the whole damn time.

[36:07] Jimi: Yeah.

[36:08] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And and really they kinda only highlight it as the joke three times, and each beat is a different thing.

[36:14] Jimi: Yep.

[36:15] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You've got the you've got the first time you see him, funny, the dance great.

[36:18] Jimi: Yep.

[36:19] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Then he's in the bath, that's funny because it's his wee legs.

[36:22] Jimi: Um then I feel like there is another one.

[36:25] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Oh, his dad.

[36:27] Jimi: Yep.

[36:27] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right?

[36:28] Jimi: So that's like three nice, easy beats.

[36:30] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yep.

[36:31] Jimi: Done.

[36:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[36:32] Jimi: Um I think it's great.

[36:35] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And uh it's just like Farquad in the musical is so different from Farquad in the film.

[36:39] Jimi: Yes, Farquad is like evil evil in the film.

[36:43] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Very much so.

[36:44] Jimi: In in the musical, he's he's comedy evil, you know, he's camp to the T to with capital T.

[36:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um Yeah, he's Snidley Whiplash, he's you know, the guy from Dam Yankees, Satan.

[36:56] Jimi: I can't remember his name in the show.

[36:58] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, like he's is that you know, camp villain, which I guess, you know, we could go into coded.

[37:04] Jimi: It's it's problematic for sure.

[37:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Sure, whatever.

[37:07] Jimi: But you know, Christopher Sieber is a wonderful homosexual man, and I'm sure he loves it because I love it too.

[37:13] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um like it's yeah, I just think like that and what they do with him is great because it builds the musical its own identity.

[37:23] Jimi: Yeah, well, and it does he it's such an interesting because it isn't a traditional, you know, uh you must pay the rent.

[37:34] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I can't pay the rent, like there isn't a Snidley Whiplash villain in the like Farquad is not the evil of the story, like Shrek is his own worst enemy through a lot of the movie or uh the musical.

[37:45] Jimi: Well, both, I guess.

[37:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um yeah, he's a very passive villain.

[37:49] Jimi: Right.

[37:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, and so there's you can't rely on individual tropes there either.

[37:56] Jimi: And so giving him this like he's it's really funny whenever he's on stage is important to keeping the show going on.

[38:05] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I think his scenes are some are the most interesting in the whole musical.

[38:10] Jimi: However degree, but his worst scenes are the ones where they copy the film directly.

[38:16] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, like the gingerbread scene isn't funny.

[38:19] Jimi: It's so it's so because we've all seen it, and someone's doing a bad impression of the gingerbread man.

[38:25] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right, and then it's not as good as the actual one.

[38:27] Jimi: And then they keep bringing the gingerbread man back, which also doesn't track even in the world they're building, like he does come back.

[38:37] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: He he does come back in the movie, yeah.

[38:39] Jimi: Yeah, sorry, he does.

[38:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Okay.

[38:48] Jimi: Yeah.

[38:49] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Sorry, Tommy.

[38:50] Jimi: That's fine.

[38:51] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um you can't be given that one.

[38:52] Jimi: But no, so but the the um Farquad, yes, they get that correct.

[38:57] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like Shrek is kind of like just the one from the film, ish but not as good.

[39:05] Jimi: Not as good and and too sentimental, outwardly sentimental.

[39:09] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Outwardly, yeah, uh-huh.

[39:11] Jimi: Um and then I think with Fiona, she loses something because again, she's in this weird transition between not quite being her own thing.

[39:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right and not quite being the princess from the film.

[39:27] Jimi: Cause like Cameron Diaz's Fiona is like bad very badass, very you know, it's totally walks her own ground like a hundred percent and as gets into that old like down and dirty vibe really, really well.

[39:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[39:45] Jimi: Satan fosters Shrek, uh Sutton Foster's Fiona, is it's weird because sometimes she's badass, but then she's also really goofy.

[39:55] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, I wish I think Sut I think Fiona's best moments are the scenes in the show.

[40:02] Jimi: Um where we can see her go back and forth between like I need somewhere to sleep, I need somewhere I need somewhere to sleep, you know, and like she she flips back and forth between the fairy tale princess and the you know edgy badass woman.

[40:18] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um but it's not built into her songs as much.

[40:21] Jimi: It's why the only quotable thing from any of the songs in this show is the waiting, the waiting, because that's the only time she does it.

[40:28] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like morning Person is a fun song, but is meaningless and it does not tell us about Fiona.

[40:35] Jimi: It's not who she is.

[40:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like that Morning Person is a song sung by uh the princess in Enchanted, is like, you know, super super Disney princess and doesn't nail the parody in a good way.

[40:48] Jimi: It's it's not like the the the bird moment in the movie where the bird explodes is hilarious.

[40:56] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: When the bird explodes on stage, you're like, oh, ah, gosh.

[41:01] Jimi: It's not funny.

[41:02] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And it's because it's it's definitely like in the film, it just takes you so much by surprise.

[41:06] Jimi: Right.

[41:07] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right?

[41:07] Jimi: And it's so stupid.

[41:08] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like that thing is it's so stupid, it's so stupid.

[41:10] Jimi: And her reaction to it is literally just uh ult.

[41:13] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[41:14] Jimi: I mean just an ult moment, um, and then you cut and you're in the next scene.

[41:17] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Whereas like to make a whole number out of that one moment is is silly, because it doesn't like you say, it doesn't add anything to this character.

[41:27] Jimi: So, like if they wanted to make her this total goofball, this like I am far at some burps and blah blah blah blah blah blah.

[41:35] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[41:35] Jimi: Great.

[41:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like really lean lean into it.

[41:38] Jimi: Yeah.

[41:39] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Or make her this badass.

[41:41] Jimi: But if you sit in that middle lane, it just won't work because she's not the film and she's not the musical.

[41:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, and so what is she?

[41:49] Jimi: It doesn't give Shrek a good reason to like fall in love with her either, which is a problem.

[41:54] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like he should fall in love with her character, you know, her her as a woman.

[42:01] Jimi: Um, and instead he falls in love with her because sometimes she farts.

[42:05] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like, it's it's literally she farts and he falls in love.

[42:07] Jimi: Like that is, that's their meat cute.

[42:09] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And like I I get it, and there's something to be said of it.

[42:11] Jimi: As much as it pains me, I do think the farting scene is one of the better done moments of the musical.

[42:17] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um I know it's weird because like well, you know my my opinion of farts.

[42:21] Jimi: Yeah, yes, I do, right?

[42:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And I I didn't mind it.

[42:26] Jimi: It's it's it's it's funny.

[42:29] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's because it is more it does a better job of recreating the bird exploding shock from the movie because it does feel like the first god, we're gonna unpack fart humor now.

[42:43] Jimi: Um like the first fart happens organically.

[42:46] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like the first fart is the deepest.

[42:53] Jimi: People have fart competitions, like that's a thing, you know, where like one person farts and then sick, like we need to we actually need to move on.

[43:00] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I don't like talking about it.

[43:03] Jimi: They don't well in the film they burp, right?

[43:05] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's the thing.

[43:06] Jimi: Yeah.

[43:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: In the film they burp, and I think I was glad they burped, and then they started farting again.

[43:10] Jimi: I was like, okay, okay, fine.

[43:12] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And I guess they do, I I will give them credit.

[43:14] Jimi: I think I got you beat, they do fall in love over their mutual parental problems.

[43:20] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But the th the thing is it doesn't it it just doesn't work.

[43:28] Jimi: Like I I don't think that like I don't believe it because it's it's too like the thing that I love about them falling in love in the film is they're just so themselves.

[43:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yep that it's not like you're me, I relate to you.

[43:42] Jimi: Right.

[43:42] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like da da da da.

[43:44] Jimi: Um you don't you don't really find out much about Shrek's family.

[43:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: No, and you don't need to be.

[43:49] Jimi: I think his dad tried to eat him or something at one point.

[43:51] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like there's no There's no labored backstory about why he lives in a swamp.

[43:56] Jimi: Right.

[43:56] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: What he loves about Fiona in the film is that she's so unabashedly herself and isn't like a pretty princess.

[44:03] Jimi: Right.

[44:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Airhead.

[44:04] Jimi: Like she is just I am burps and farts and I'll eat some rats with you.

[44:08] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like let's go for it.

[44:09] Jimi: Yeah.

[44:10] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um I think with those two, yeah.

[44:17] Jimi: They miss the the thing.

[44:19] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Before we move on, we need to talk about the donkey.

[44:22] Jimi: Ugh.

[44:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I find this frustrating.

[44:26] Jimi: I find it frustrating too.

[44:28] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I find the donkey in the original movie frustrating as well.

[44:33] Jimi: Um it's granted I have not read the children's book, which I imagine is pretty tiny.

[44:41] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Is there a donkey in that?

[44:42] Jimi: I don't know.

[44:43] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yes, yes, there is okay.

[44:44] Jimi: So at least they're taking it from that.

[44:46] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But it's like you know, in the movie it's Eddie Murphy doing his Eddie Murphy thing.

[44:52] Jimi: Like it it does seem like DreamWork saw Mulan was like, I love this dragon.

[44:59] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: How do we get this dragon in our movie?

[45:01] Jimi: Let's make him a wisecracking donkey.

[45:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um and it's fine.

[45:05] Jimi: Eddie Murphy has some of the funniest lines in the movie.

[45:08] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, you know, and there is a a hugely sentimental attachment between Shrek and the Donkey.

[45:14] Jimi: I do enjoy in the movie, if I'm remembering this right, Shrek and the Donkey have more of a falling out over Fiona leaving, which is not present in the stage musical.

[45:26] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's barely present.

[45:27] Jimi: It's kinda so that that moment, but it's not you don't get it right.

[45:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And I be it leads into Hallelujah in the movie.

[45:35] Jimi: Like it is the sad thing that sets off the sad montage.

[45:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And like So Yes, sorry, like I'm sorry, I can't go.

[45:43] Jimi: So then you get to Donkey in the musical, and like God, it is you know, I'm surprised of all the reckonings people are putting different musicals through these days in our uh, you know, post we see white American theater call for um uh a more anti-racist Broadway.

[46:05] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Having this one black actor be, you know, the only main black actor playing a donkey, doing you know, quote unquote black things, and like it the musical really leans into that in a way that kind of makes me uncomfortable um and feels you know like it's it's exploitative exploitative, sure that's the word.

[46:28] Jimi: Um, you know, it is and like it's hard because that's the character.

[46:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's that's who Donkey is in the movie.

[46:35] Jimi: I get it, and and the movie is a world of green ogres and you know, all these fairy tale creatures.

[46:42] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, you know, in some ways, Shrek is a story about like not being judged by your skin color.

[46:48] Jimi: You could spin it that way without a lot of you know mental leaps.

[46:52] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But then I get really uncomfortable when it when they really lean into it on Broadway, because it's not you know, it feels like it's a joke for the wrong reasons.

[47:03] Jimi: Well, it's because that's all it is.

[47:05] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, that's true, right?

[47:07] Jimi: With the film, I love the character of Donkey in the film because he's a character.

[47:14] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's true, yeah.

[47:15] Jimi: He also has layers, yeah.

[47:17] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: He also has a life and a storyline and a lot of power.

[47:21] Jimi: Like a lot of power in that sh that film.

[47:24] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[47:24] Jimi: In all of the films.

[47:25] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, he's a really important, significant character.

[47:28] Jimi: Right.

[47:29] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um like he has that moment where he gets to change Shrek's mind in that like you know, I mean, like that scene with Donkey sat out in the rain.

[47:39] Jimi: Yeah.

[47:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's it's heartbreaking.

[47:41] Jimi: It's heartbreaking, right?

[47:42] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[47:42] Jimi: Because you love Donkey so much.

[47:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[47:45] Jimi: Because he just means so well.

[47:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: He's such an optimist, yeah, and he's trying so hard.

[47:50] Jimi: Yeah.

[47:51] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And he's not judging this guy, and this guy can't see that he's not being judged by this donkey.

[47:55] Jimi: Right.

[47:56] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, like it's a really good rounded character.

[48:01] Jimi: Yeah.

[48:02] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: In the musical, it's like he's not even there.

[48:05] Jimi: He's like an annoying, wisecracking side character.

[48:09] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like what isn't his first song travel song, which is like God, I you know, I adore it.

[48:15] Jimi: But is that it's just like I adore Lindsay Abbear and Tessori and like, come on.

[48:20] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: A song you're gonna call it travel song, and the lyrics are gonna be like La da da, sing the travel song.

[48:27] Jimi: This is the song we sing, right?

[48:29] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like No, that isn't his first song before we know.

[48:33] Jimi: His first song is a solo, Don't Let Me Go.

[48:35] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Fair, okay.

[48:37] Jimi: Which is from the moment of uh, you know, can I stay away at like Let Me Go With You in the thing?

[48:43] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Even Don't Let Me Go is I don't know not very memorable, I'm realizing.

[48:50] Jimi: Right.

[48:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's what it just kind of like sings kind of fast about you know not wanting to be alone, right?

[48:59] Jimi: Like that's kind of it.

[49:01] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um but I think just with like with I don't know, again, just to go back to like his character, like he you you don't really understand where he came from, how he's able to talk, like there's all of these kind of cool questions around he's definitely been abandoned by his owner, yeah.

[49:20] Jimi: You don't get a sense of that at all in the musical.

[49:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[49:23] Jimi: And the whole point is is like Shrek and Fiona talk about how they're abandoned.

[49:27] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, like that's they if they spent all this time building up the backstory of Shrek and Fiona, like there is you do see a brief scene with Child Shrek where Child Fiona is dragged away by her parents.

[49:37] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right, and they have that wave, ostensibly too, but like it makes sense.

[49:40] Jimi: She's put in this tower because she's got this evil curse and her parents don't want to deal with her, like we get it.

[49:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But also, we don't need to like we could just get that.

[49:47] Jimi: But if they're gonna build it all up, yeah, tell us about Donkey.

[49:51] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[49:52] Jimi: Oh, exactly.

[49:52] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But exactly not like in the film, there's such a tr like there's such a trio, like they're an important three-o three-o, three threesome.

[49:59] Jimi: Um that it's it's just such a shame that they didn't carry that on, and he is just the butt of the joke.

[50:08] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[50:09] Jimi: Like, he and I think that is a shame, and then I think it can kind of become problematic, as you say.

[50:17] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[50:17] Jimi: Then he is reduced to this caricature.

[50:20] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Stereotype, just very stereotype.

[50:23] Jimi: Because, like, you know, like I actually think Eddie Murphy does a really good vocal performance in the film.

[50:30] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[50:30] Jimi: Especially with those pathos scenes, and like a scene with Fiona in the middle, yeah, like beautiful, beautiful acting that he does.

[50:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And again, in the musical, that moment is just about Fiona.

[50:42] Jimi: Yeah.

[50:43] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Donkey isn't given his his time.

[50:46] Jimi: It's such a loss of character.

[50:48] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And it feels like they had to.

[50:50] Jimi: It feels like early on in the writing of this when they were song spotting, they were like, Alright, we gotta bulk this up a bit, because there's not a lot here.

[50:57] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, but they didn't then they lose all the donkey shit.

[51:01] Jimi: Pardon me.

[51:01] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Well, it's wicked.

[51:03] Jimi: But yeah, they they or they pick out the weird bits, like the pet the because like there's a there's an a number of donkey singing to Shrek, you wanna hold her, you wanna please her, you gotta gotta try a little tin and they've made that as own number.

[51:18] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[51:19] Jimi: Like that's so silly.

[51:20] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, like it's they it's it's a poorly song spotted show.

[51:24] Jimi: They've lost a lot of like it does it does feel very check caching in its construction.

[51:31] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like how do we how do we get through this and create something that people will that will be a passable adaptation of Shrek for the stage?

[51:37] Jimi: Exactly.

[51:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: As opposed to like starting like what is the heart of this story and how can we fresh new light?

[51:44] Jimi: Exactly.

[51:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: How do we spider off of what the central thesis is?

[51:48] Jimi: Yeah.

[51:49] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like even the whole onion scene, which is probably the thesis of the movie, when it hits the musical seems entirely disposable.

[51:58] Jimi: Um it's just it's there because it needs to be.

[52:00] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[52:01] Jimi: And rather than there because it should be.

[52:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It should be a s like it's if we're song spotting, it should be a song.

[52:06] Jimi: You know.

[52:07] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And I think that's the other thing.

[52:08] Jimi: If we're song spotting, gingerbread man should be a song, not a little scene.

[52:13] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like these are the moments to big up, and then that'll let you do, you know, your as much as I joke about it, but when uh Mean Girls has the Glen Coco, Glen Coco, Glen Coco, that's a way to do fan service.

[52:13] Jimi: That's a way to incorporate that.

[52:29] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Make it bigger, subvert the expectation with the reference.

[52:33] Jimi: Yeah.

[52:34] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And Shrek just doesn't do it.

[52:36] Jimi: I just don't think it does.

[52:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um Yeah, the movie is better.

[52:41] Jimi: Yeah.

[52:42] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I won't stop watching it.

[52:43] Jimi: I still love it.

[52:44] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like I kinda love it more.

[52:45] Jimi: It was fun to to re-watch it in in prep for this.

[52:48] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Because it does it does feel like you know an old blanket that you adore.

[52:52] Jimi: Um yeah, for sure.

[52:54] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And it's so special.

[52:55] Jimi: I mean, it's one of those things like I feel like Shrek One is such a special, special thing.

[53:00] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: The sequels are decent.

[53:01] Jimi: They're decent, but they're very much the they become their own thing.

[53:04] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like I feel like the sequels, this is a weird kind of thing, but I feel like the sequels are more like the musical.

[53:09] Jimi: Hmm, interesting.

[53:10] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Because they're trying to get back to space.

[53:13] Jimi: They're trying to recreate this spark.

[53:15] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[53:16] Jimi: And that's exactly what the musical's trying to do.

[53:18] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[53:18] Jimi: It's recreate this spark.

[53:21] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um almost as if like a a Shrek, and they would never do this, they would never take this risk, but Shrek the musical, if it was a spin-off story, might be better.

[53:32] Jimi: Um die there's a whole lore now that you can pull from.

[53:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Dive into it.

[53:39] Jimi: Go for it.

[53:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Why the hell not?

[53:41] Jimi: Yeah.

[53:41] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But I do think, you know, I think in in if we're talking media studies style, like they never Shrek 1 certainly wasn't made with any kind of franchise in mind beyond its original movie.

[53:56] Jimi: No.

[53:56] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And but has turned that way, right?

[53:58] Jimi: There is a Shrek averse.

[54:00] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Absolutely.

[54:00] Jimi: Um, you know, aren't there like Puss and Boots spin-off movies now and stuff?

[54:04] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I think it's like a TV show of piss and boots as well or something.

[54:06] Jimi: Like it's crazy.

[54:07] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[54:07] Jimi: And so it is interesting that from its inception it wasn't started that way, but it does seem like early 2000s is just right when we start entering like the sequel apocalypse of post-millennium media.

[54:20] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um franchise fest.

[54:23] Jimi: Yeah, it became and so you know, Shrek is first on that list.

[54:26] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like, this is popular, let's make more.

[54:29] Jimi: And but because it wasn't started with those hooks in place, it is hard to backform them when the original is such a tight, well-written story.

[54:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: For sure.

[54:41] Jimi: For sure, for sure.

[54:42] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: So, to kind of summarize this section, I would say we're coming at this from the perspective of people who love the film.

[54:51] Jimi: Yeah.

[54:51] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[54:52] Jimi: And I think a lot of people come at the musical from the perspective of not knowing the film.

[54:59] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[55:00] Jimi: And not having the film be like like you see that blanket to them.

[55:05] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: So I like trying really, really hard to put those unbiased glasses on and pull it apart as a show.

[55:13] Jimi: I can see why you would love it.

[55:15] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[55:16] Jimi: Because it is really funny.

[55:19] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It is really funny.

[55:20] Jimi: And I mean it is as funny as the movie was the first time we saw it.

[55:24] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Exactly.

[55:25] Jimi: Exactly. Like the movie is absolutely more special.

[55:28] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[55:29] Jimi: Because of the extra little bits and bobs that it has.

[55:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But at its base, you know, pelleted down, it is still a really funny concept, a really funny piece, and a very funny night at the theater.

[55:44] Jimi: Yeah. Um so that is the summary.

[55:49] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: There you go. You want to talk about the show?

[55:52] Jimi: Let's talk about that funny show.

[55:59] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And Ogre stays in the darker roll.

[56:09] Jimi: So you decide be a hero. And it's my shortly enchanting. I saw the story see.

[56:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's how like the reason the reason I'm trying to hammer that home is I don't want people to think that we're just shitting on it.

[57:00] Jimi: Yeah.

[57:00] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Oh I've I've already done that, so I don't need to do that.

[57:04] Jimi: Yeah, it's one of my earliest uh watch with me's as I watched Shrek and routinely destroyed it.

[57:10] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um the s uh the most hateful comments I get on my YouTube channel are about um which Mrs. Lovett is the best Mrs. Lovett. The second most hateful comments I get are about shitting on Shrek the musical.

[57:24] Jimi: Wow.

[57:25] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah. Uh no joke. And I d I had I don't re-watch my old videos very often, so I couldn't tell you what I said about it, but I know I didn't like it.

[57:35] Jimi: Um I do think part of that's for comedy sake, and that is part of the persona I play on my channel.

[57:41] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Okay, yeah, yeah.

[57:41] Jimi: Um and I also think a lot of that is rooted in, you know, I still am, even though I think I love the movie, and there are parts of the show that I do enjoy. I still am very dissatisfied with the trend of franchise shows ending up on Broadway.

[57:56] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[57:57] Jimi: Um like that comes first before my appreciation of the art and it's will routinely be difficult for me to get past that. Like what if all this resource was put into creating a new show.

[58:09] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right, right like just as much creative capital was put into bringing something new into the world um or even slightly newer uh as opposed to basically a how do we recreate this as closely as possible on stage.

[58:24] Jimi: Yeah um yeah yeah yeah and that's all will always be a frustration of mine.

[58:28] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's fair. That's fair.

[58:29] Jimi: Right, okay well that's interesting. Well no just because like I think like one of the things I think we're actually quite good on good at being on here is that we don't ever for the for the most part we have had our moment but very rarely do we go ham on something.

[58:43] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yes.

[58:43] Jimi: Just for the sake of going ham on something. I think we we always try like because the thing is is like like you just said this is Janine Sassori and I can't remember the button David Lindsay a bear who wrote the rabbit hole surprise.

[58:56] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah exactly like these are he very good like talented people here.

[59:02] Jimi: And that's the thing is like it's it's not shit.

[59:07] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[59:08] Jimi: Do you know what I mean? Like it's it's not shit. It's just not what it could be.

[59:13] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah I think I think some of it's shit. Honestly I mean a whole a whole thing.

[59:19] Jimi: It is not shit.

[59:21] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah it I mean it ran for a year. It got good notices.

[59:24] Jimi: Exactly exactly and like the like you know and like I said if you go into that with nothing else behind you it's it has to be an enjoyable funny night because there's nothing like it.

[59:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: My god, it's yeah, wow. That was a dragon. What the hell's going on?

[59:37] Jimi: Yeah.

[59:37] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um Yeah, so yeah, just as like a pre-curse. That's why I'm that's why I'm trying to like hit home the like it's funny. Because you know, it is funny.

[59:46] Jimi: It is, it is.

[59:49] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um also just allows us to be a bit more uh a bit more perspective on the discussion as opposed to just being like, this is shit, and this is shit, and that's shit.

[59:59] Jimi: Well, yeah, because that's not entertaining.

[1:00:01] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um I'm joking.

[1:00:06] Jimi: Um right. I think first and foremost, let's talk about the dragon.

[1:00:12] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's such a it's such a difficulty. Um I man, I sympathize. It's I um am still on some like uh uh reply all message chains of tech directors in the Chicagoland area. And there are chains and chains of emails about who's borrowing whose dragon for Shrek.

[1:00:31] Jimi: Because we're doing Shrek and we don't want to build this damn thing.

[1:00:35] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:00:36] Jimi: Cause it's so you need it. It is literally the Deus Ex Machina that happens and it has to be spectacular in this thing, and also it's a dragon.

[1:00:46] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[1:00:46] Jimi: I mean, my favorite thing that did a lot of it today. Um my one of my favorite things in general is watching uh high school productions of high school productions of this show in particular is just so sweet. It's like dragons, Audrey 2's, Beasts and Beauty and the Beast. There's a a a slim like Milky Whites, like they they all have a a lovely place together.

[1:01:15] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um but yeah, there was like some productions that I saw where it was like a big flash of light, and then a guy and he's got like little wings on his back. And I'm just like, You're so cute, this is amazing. This is so sweet, and it's amateur. I w you know, of the choices, I like that better than what the the Broadway production does.

[1:01:34] Jimi: I agree.

[1:01:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I agree.

[1:01:37] Jimi: That Broadway production did not do that well.

[1:01:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: So bad.

[1:01:40] Jimi: It was one of the biggest changes from the Broadway production to the touring productions. They made a new puppet and wrote a new song and like totally redid that beat with Donkey and the Castle and the Dragon. And like, well done, but you should have caught that one before you locked in.

[1:01:55] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's just it's like God. It is a it is a puppet that does a very good job at looking like the CGI puppet and has no emotion at all.

[1:02:04] Jimi: Nothing.

[1:02:05] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: So like, but what I don't understand, right? So if if you've not seen it, if you've not seen the thing, I I recommend watching it at YouTube, whatever. Um, because it does need to be seen.

[1:02:16] Jimi: Uh so they use projection mapping for the eyes.

[1:02:19] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:02:20] Jimi: Right?

[1:02:20] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:02:21] Jimi: Which is a very high-tech thing, especially for 2006.

[1:02:25] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Are we in?

[1:02:26] Jimi: Like, I'd have to look again.

[1:02:28] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That I I'm uh I'm a hundred percent sure it looks very like projection map. Like I don't think it's just lit up at the end of the day.

[1:02:35] Jimi: I wonder because they do move. I wonder if it's uh the inside.

[1:02:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Potentially, maybe.

[1:02:42] Jimi: Maybe.

[1:02:43] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's how I would do that.

[1:02:44] Jimi: Because I was like, this is such an advanced thing that you're doing. How can you do everything else so wrong?

[1:02:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I think their visual eyelids, like their physical eyelids.

[1:02:54] Jimi: Yeah, they are.

[1:02:55] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But you think the the eyeball itself is a it just lo it it just looks yeah like it's been like that, the kind of light that it holds is that everything around it is not lit.

[1:03:07] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:03:07] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:03:07] Jimi: The light is on it.

[1:03:09] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, I bet you it's lights inside or something.

[1:03:11] Jimi: Yeah. Uh-huh.

[1:03:12] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um so anyway, that's the most exciting thing about it are these lit up eyes.

[1:03:18] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:03:18] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Everything else is really, really bad. Like the giant from the original into the woods is better.

[1:03:20] Jimi: Is better.

[1:03:24] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And it's nothing, right? Like it's the back of a head that goes away quickly.

[1:03:31] Jimi: The other thing I enjoyed that more.

[1:03:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I think they screwed it up on the page. Like the dragon doesn't talk in the movie.

[1:03:39] Jimi: No.

[1:03:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right. But I I don't mind I actually don't mind letting the dragon dog and letting the dragon have a number.

[1:03:46] Jimi: Sure.

[1:03:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um I think that's it's that's a funny and again that adds to this thing about saying like giving the musical its own identity.

[1:03:54] Jimi: Yeah, that's fair. You know what I mean? I think that's totally fair.

[1:03:57] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um I just think they needed to done like it's really it's really bad.

[1:04:04] Jimi: Well, and they totally blow up like the whole joke of the movie is that the dragon falls in love with the donkey.

[1:04:10] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And they're also they're subverting your assumption that the dragon is a man, like yeah, exactly.

[1:04:15] Jimi: Oh, you're a girl, right?

[1:04:17] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Exactly.

[1:04:17] Jimi: Yeah, exactly.

[1:04:18] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Which they blow up that joke the moment there's a voice, right?

[1:04:21] Jimi: Yeah, they can't get into it.

[1:04:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right. And like I wonder, you know, if if if you th throw Shrek at me, please don't, and ask me to like shreck try and fix it. Like, is there a way to write this song so that it is just sung by donkey and that the dragon is just there emoting in growls and grunts and stuff, and then the donkey can and you know, do the CP C three P O R two D2 thing if you need to.

[1:04:49] Jimi: Like, what was that you said?

[1:04:51] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Oh no, there this is my natural fur color, right?

[1:04:54] Jimi: Like I guess potentially.

[1:04:56] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: What I wonder is they need another song for a female.

[1:04:58] Jimi: Yeah, that could be part of it.

[1:04:59] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And uh the question I've had in watching the show is is this a um uh almost main situation? Like was DreamWorks did they have in their back of their mind like this is gonna be great for high schools? Like we gotta, you know, get it through the Broadway pipeline so we can get it to MTI or whoever, so that we can start licensing it out to high schools, not only to make the money off the show, but to keep the Shrek brand alive.

[1:05:23] Jimi: Uh huh.

[1:05:24] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Which is that's that's uh a motivator. It's why Disney Jr. exists.

[1:05:27] Jimi: Um and for that reason, having a couple more you know, that's why they have the Pipe Piper, that's why they wrote in a whole bunch of these other characters. That's you know, fuck. That's why they have Pinocchio, like it's the same into the booth things, you know what I mean when they have all the extras because you can if you need them.

[1:05:43] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Exactly.

[1:05:43] Jimi: Um yeah.

[1:05:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: So But basically what's great is they fixed it.

[1:05:49] Jimi: Yeah, I would say they did.

[1:05:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: The puppet for the touring version looks much better.

[1:05:52] Jimi: Oh my god, it's fantastic, I think.

[1:05:54] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:05:54] Jimi: I think it's bloody good.

[1:05:56] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um and the song's better and the just the more it's better.

[1:06:00] Jimi: They don't have the oh, those bloody skeletons.

[1:06:02] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Oh, what the heck is up it's like the director was like, I really want to do a skeleton's number, where can we put it?

[1:06:07] Jimi: I forgot about the skeletons, Jesus.

[1:06:09] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right. It's but it's it's very much like guys, look sk these skeletons look like they're just made of bow, and so have I seen that all the time before? Yes, every single half. And it's trying to be the like legit dancing part of the show too.

[1:06:17] Jimi: It's trying to be and like you don't need very unnecessary dance number.

[1:06:27] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You don't need the impressive choreography dance number in Shrek the Musical.

[1:06:31] Jimi: No. I mean, they were definitely covering something with that dance break.

[1:06:34] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[1:06:34] Jimi: A hundred percent of it because that is the most superfluous thing I know on the planet. Like maybe they had skeletons deflate the dragon and hoist it up to the rafters or something.

[1:06:44] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Exactly.

[1:06:44] Jimi: Um but yeah, so in the West End version and the the US touring any other production since they've now got these like nights and um stockades.

[1:06:54] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Oh, they're so funny.

[1:06:55] Jimi: Which is much fun, it's really funny.

[1:06:57] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, it's just funny.

[1:06:58] Jimi: And it does, and then it leads into the plot of the song, right?

[1:07:01] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right, exactly, exactly.

[1:07:02] Jimi: Keeping you here forever, you're trapped, you know, I mean you're mate. Um, yeah, like it's so much better, and I'm very, very glad they improved it because like that actually I think now the dragon's one of the best things in it.

[1:07:16] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, yeah.

[1:07:16] Jimi: And they also like the dragon puppet is scaled down, but is a full it's a much more traditional puppet, where like the Broadway one seems like this inflatable thing um that can't talk very well, its mouth doesn't move very well, um and now it's more like a rod and stick puppet with like four performers.

[1:07:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, you know, they don't have the weird like scales that turn around with ladies on them.

[1:07:38] Jimi: Yeah, what's that about?

[1:07:39] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Why have you got talking scales? Do you know what I mean?

[1:07:42] Jimi: And it's so because the rest of the production is trying so hard to just be the movie, right?

[1:07:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, or to have like, you know, Farquad is like one specific uh uh element that makes him look like the movie, right?

[1:07:57] Jimi: There's one stage joke in there, but it's trying so hard to recreate what you've seen in the movie, and then to have these representative singing dragon scales, right? Like you're you're you know, we're we're mixing genres.

[1:08:12] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:08:13] Jimi: It's crazy.

[1:08:15] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um so I just wanted to get out of the way. That the dragon is delightful.

[1:08:21] Jimi: And it's been fixed, and we're we're all much happier now.

[1:08:24] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It is it's it's such a fascinating, you know, not a lot of shows as big as this one get post Broadway fixes.

[1:08:33] Jimi: Um I would say if I was making the argument of you know them prepping this for high schools, that's a sign that like they you know, maybe Meet Me in St. Louis is one of the few that has also done such a big post Broadway rewrite for whatever reason.

[1:08:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Maybe a lot less successful, yeah.

[1:08:53] Jimi: Um yeah, fair. I I I'm so see in the US tour, because I've only seen the West End one.

[1:09:00] Jimi: In the US tour, did they do the LCD screen backdrops and the simplified set and stuff?

[1:09:07] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, that's a good question. I the only clips I've seen, it seems a lot more like dropping flat as opposed to like big set pieces. Um, they're a lot more simplified.

[1:09:18] Jimi: Um, the UK tour is all LCD screen.

[1:09:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Fascinating.

[1:09:24] Jimi: Um, it's done reason in the set is a million times simpler.

[1:09:28] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right, because it's like one set piece we're working with, and the rest is the projection.

[1:09:33] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:09:34] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, it's a cheaper, cheaper alternative.

[1:09:36] Jimi: Cheaper alternative, and it works.

[1:09:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, it really, really works. Like it's good simple stuff, it's not distracting.

[1:09:44] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:09:44] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I am surprised. This is only a bit of a tangent, but it's in my tech theater world. Like there's still, you know, I've been in so many high school theaters and they have such different design considerations when they build them, but there is every general use education theater is still built with a psyche.

[1:10:03] Jimi: Um, either a sky blue psych or a white psych.

[1:10:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And like, no, no professional productions have like, and then the big white curtain in back, right? It's just not a thing. I am surprised and have had this thought multiple times that like with how cheap giant LED walls are becoming, that like that's just not part and parcel for what we put in high schools.

[1:10:27] Jimi: For the amount of like, you know, we're all gonna sit and watch a movie, or here's this PowerPoint projection or something, and then switch over to we need to do Into the Woods Junior and we got two weeks.

[1:10:37] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Alright, I can pull together a bunch of clip art files that is gonna make this really nice.

[1:10:42] Jimi: Exactly. It seems very versatile.

[1:10:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's the sort of thing where like maybe when things go back to normal, I would look into for my theaters.

[1:10:50] Jimi: Yeah, easy.

[1:10:51] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And then yeah, I don't know why. Like maybe just because it requires a level of tech knowledge, like perhaps that like the average, you know, English teacher.

[1:11:02] Jimi: Yeah, fair, but um it and it would just yeah, it would help a lot.

[1:11:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Oh, be so useful. It's like my god.

[1:11:09] Jimi: I know.

[1:11:09] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But then you'd never, you know, you'd never learn what Cyclorama was.

[1:11:13] Jimi: That's true, but people don't use them anymore.

[1:11:15] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And I hate teaching.

[1:11:16] Jimi: I used one, thank you proud of you.

[1:11:18] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I literally one of the last things I did before the pandemic hit was box up and take down our psych and put it in storage and just like once and for all.

[1:11:29] Jimi: And it's like sky green too. It's like the worst color for a psych.

[1:11:31] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Oh my god.

[1:11:34] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:11:35] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Architects for high school theaters have this habit of not getting white psyches.

[1:11:39] Jimi: Like at the very least, get something white.

[1:11:42] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, why wouldn't it be white?

[1:11:43] Jimi: No, all I got are like they call 'em sky blue and sky green.

[1:11:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And it's like this pastelly gross blueness.

[1:11:52] Jimi: What are you using green for?

[1:11:53] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right?

[1:11:54] Jimi: It's such a you can't color on green either.

[1:11:57] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, I mean, it's still like white green, you know, it's barely green, but it's still green.

[1:12:02] Jimi: Right.

[1:12:02] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, I have never understood it. No one has ever been able to explain it to me. I hate it.

[1:12:07] Jimi: Okay, fair. I hate it too.

[1:12:09] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Well, anyway, that's one thing that the future productions, I think, get right. Um, you can let us know listeners if you seem the turret and they use yeah, LED screens because it works substantially.

[1:12:23] Jimi: And I think they probably because it's so much easier to cheaper, yeah.

[1:12:26] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: To put in.

[1:12:26] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:12:27] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, yeah.

[1:12:28] Jimi: So you want to talk about the lyrics.

[1:12:31] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Oh god, I'm so frustrated with the lyrics of the show. Um, they seem so many times they seem like throwaway jokes. And I get that they're kind of that uh Tessori and Lindsay Bear are trying to emulate some of the I don't know, irreverent referential pop culture-y flavor of the movie.

[1:12:52] Jimi: The c yeah, the kind of satire-y.

[1:12:54] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, but it doesn't work for me when it's lyrics, because it's not they're just throwaway lines, they don't land on punchline um song lyrics. The first one, the one I put here, in I Know It's Today, and I can't even remember where it happens in the song, but like Fiona's extolling things she's good at. She says, although I seem a bit bipolar.

[1:13:18] Jimi: Right.

[1:13:19] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's what it rhymes with. And then she says, I'm a very gifted bowler. And like they're trying to emulate this pop culture referential thing. But this isn't a pop culture reference. She's not a gifted bowler.

[1:13:34] Jimi: She can't be. She's stuck in a tower that's eight foot by eight foot.

[1:13:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: So, like, it doesn't make sense in world. It's not so funny that you should keep it, right? It's not a laugh out loud line. It's a forced rhyme. I mean, it's a real rhyme with bipolar, but even the bipolar line isn't terribly necessary. So why are you bending over backwards to find a rhyme for it?

[1:13:59] Jimi: Right.

[1:14:00] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, because for me it's actually more the bipolar thing.

[1:14:02] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:14:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That frustrates me because that she's only saying that because she's just gotten angry and torn a bicycle.

[1:14:08] Jimi: Right.

[1:14:08] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: She's not actually bipolar. And there's nothing to do with it's got nothing to do with her character. Right. And this is a bigger frustration I have with these lyrics is that they're really insensitive. And like and like not insensitive in a funny offensive way, which I think there I would have more lenience for.

[1:14:28] Jimi: Right.

[1:14:28] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: They're insensitive in like an unknowing way. Like there are real bipolar people. You know, it's like people who joke about, like, you know, oh, your apartment's so clean. Oh yeah, I'm a little OCD.

[1:14:38] Jimi: Like you're not OCD.

[1:14:39] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right, yeah. You know, right? And then later, um, like the whole god, uh Little Red Riding Hood wolf character is terrible. And they're like playing up, so they drop they drop the T slur. Um, I'll say it as a quote, but um they well, it rhymes with Granny, we can say it rhymes with Granny. Um and like they are playing up like, of course, that's who this character is, it's a wolf in grandmother's clothing.

[1:15:09] Jimi: But then, like in Freak Flag Fly, you know, there's a whole like embracing the wolf's cross-dressing nature, but then there is then that's this plays up that like people who cross dress or who are trans aren't ugly like a wolf would be, which is really unfair and insensitive. Like the whole thing is not good.

[1:15:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um in like all of God, Freak Flag Fly. It's one of the catchier songs in the show, right? It's it's a it on its surface, it is a good musical theater song. It's a good company song. I'm sure it's great in the high schools because it's the time when the whole company gets to come out and have their shining moment.

[1:15:54] Jimi: And it is problematic AF.

[1:15:57] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, like, even just in little ways, but just making a joke about like I'm gonna tell the world that I'm a Scientologist. Like don't get me wrong, I have no like I have no sympathy for Scientology. Want to make that as a sort of thing. I want to make that very clear.

[1:16:16] Jimi: Um but like Scientology is a terrible scourge on American culture, like is a deep death cult that, you know, steals a bunch of money from people. It's not really funny.

[1:16:31] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, but they you can see what they're doing there. They're like, well, we're gonna try and be big of Mormon.

[1:16:36] Jimi: Right.

[1:16:37] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's trying to be like a buzzword.

[1:16:38] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:16:39] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right. That's that's what and I just think that's that's where those humor moments like you would never get that joke in the Shrek film.

[1:16:47] Jimi: Right.

[1:16:48] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:16:48] Jimi: But even and like I think Freak Flag Fly ends with, doesn't Pinocchio say like it's something that rhymes with wood.

[1:16:55] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I'm wooden I'm good. I'm wood and I'm good and I'm here to stay.

[1:16:57] Jimi: Yeah, yeah.

[1:16:58] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um and it's you know, we're here, we're queer, and we're not going anywhere, whatever. Like, like and uh on the one hand, I do adore the sentiment. Let your freak flag fly. You know, don't yuck anybody's yum. Love it, right?

[1:17:12] Jimi: On its surface, yes.

[1:17:14] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But there it gets, you know, they are they are self-describing as freaks. And that there would be a way to do it better if Shrek was also involved, because we're talking about like the whole thing is that Farquad wants the non-normals to get out of his kingdom, and so kicks out you know, weird magical folk.

[1:17:40] Jimi: Um Shrek also has all these identity issues about being an ogre, as does Fiona about transforming back and forth. Like, there's a thread here, but they never pull it, they never like draw it.

[1:17:52] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Just they have all these fairy tale creatures sing Let Your Freak Flag Fly, make a lameiz reference, and then are done with it.

[1:18:01] Jimi: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[1:18:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Well, like the whole song exists to cheer up Pinocchio, right?

[1:18:09] Jimi: It's yeah, in terms of song spotting, it's it's not great.

[1:18:14] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's it's not I it's we it's it's probably one of my least favorite songs in the show, to be honest.

[1:18:18] Jimi: Really?

[1:18:19] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, and I again it might be a biased point of view because the first thing I ever saw of Shrek the musical was the 2008 Tony's where I believe this was part of the opening.

[1:18:30] Jimi: Yes, it was.

[1:18:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um and I was like, what on earth?

[1:18:35] Jimi: Right is this nonsense.

[1:18:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yep. Like, why why does this exist in the same kind of like franchisey datedness?

[1:18:42] Jimi: Um and they were just singing like let your freak flag fly in that vibe of like we're the freaks, you know.

[1:18:49] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I mean, right, yes, we're the ults, we're the you know, outsiders, and we're here to say, and I'm like, yes, oh great, you know, I mean that story again.

[1:18:57] Jimi: Right.

[1:18:57] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like it that's kind of what it was feel like I was like, just move on, give me next to normal.

[1:19:02] Jimi: Exactly.

[1:19:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I'm much more interested than that.

[1:19:05] Jimi: Um so yeah, I think that's uh I already had an issue with it before everything else. Like, you know, I mean, like, I think it's performed, but I think it's uh like it's decent enough as a number, but yeah, I'm sure it's a ton of fun.

[1:19:21] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, I don't doubt that for an absolute second.

[1:19:25] Jimi: Um, but it's not I'm just like I'm like you know, like it doesn't progress the plot, like it's such a missed opportunity.

[1:19:34] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Because these are these this the company of fairy tale creatures are a great like uh C plot to the show, right? You've got like Shrek and who he's encountering with right now, whether it's Donkey Fiona, the dragon, or Farquad.

[1:19:49] Jimi: You've got like Farquad's own stuff about his as B as like his kingdom stuff.

[1:19:55] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um and then you've got C the fairy tale creatures. Um they're you know, it's not done well enough ever.

[1:20:06] Jimi: There's this they they try and pull this joke a couple times with like time to say goodbye when they're like singing this goodbye song to Shrek. They try and pull the joke when all the knights are coming in saying, like, here comes Farquad, he's down the hall, he's almost here, and it doesn't quite land enough.

[1:20:21] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, it needs to be longer, like it needs to actually take up more time than you want it to, or sound like it's gonna end a couple times, and it just doesn't.

[1:20:31] Jimi: Um it yeah.

[1:20:34] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I feel like and then freak flag with the um fairy tale creatures, which doesn't Pinocchio's sad at the beginning of the scene and isn't sad at the end of the scene, and we didn't need the scene at all.

[1:20:48] Jimi: Yeah, exactly.

[1:20:49] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like it resolves.

[1:20:51] Jimi: I know.

[1:20:51] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I know he's not a big enough character in it that he gets more to do than Donkey.

[1:20:56] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:20:57] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:20:57] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:20:58] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I'm not even kidding. He gets more of a character arc than Donkey.

[1:21:01] Jimi: What if, you know, maybe one of the fixes is rewrite from the movie, don't just have the dragon be the Deus Ex, but have all the fairy tale creatures come back in and disrupt the wedding in a comic, you know, pie throwing extravaganza or something.

[1:21:16] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like make it the the riot scene in Beating the Beast that's exactly like that.

[1:21:22] Jimi: Um, which would then bring all these actors back on stage, give another number. Maybe they're led in by Donkey.

[1:21:28] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You know, we found some friends.

[1:21:29] Jimi: Charlie.

[1:21:31] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I think they do come back at the end.

[1:21:33] Jimi: They do come back for uh uh uh No, but they're I'm sure that they're at the wedding, because that's when Grumpy comes back.

[1:21:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Aren't they at um the Shrek and Fiona wedding?

[1:21:44] Jimi: Or are they at the Farquad wedding?

[1:21:46] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: They're at the Farquad wedding, because that's when Grumpy comes back.

[1:21:50] Jimi: That maybe get that reveal. But and that's actually another issue. I want to talk about that, because this is bad book writing.

[1:21:55] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:21:55] Jimi: Um, so there's the bigger and I actually think it's a funny, a very funny storyline.

[1:22:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yes.

[1:22:03] Jimi: I love this idea that Farqua's dad is actually Grumpy the Dwarf.

[1:22:07] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yes.

[1:22:07] Jimi: That's really funny.

[1:22:08] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Very funny.

[1:22:09] Jimi: Very funny. But why also include in your um complete copy paste from the film, literally verbatim, copy paste from the film, uh mirror game show blind date scene.

[1:22:25] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:22:26] Jimi: Um also include Snow White and the Seven Dwarves in that.

[1:22:31] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:22:31] Jimi: Doesn't make sense.

[1:22:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It doesn't make any fucking sense.

[1:22:34] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:22:34] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And I was like, that is bad book. There's many princesses that you can choose from.

[1:22:38] Jimi: Yep.

[1:22:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You could have rewritten that scene from the film.

[1:22:41] Jimi: Yep.

[1:22:41] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Just do it. Pick a different.

[1:22:43] Jimi: And I know this is the most, and I know a lot of people out there are gonna be rolling their eyes because we've just talked about, you know, the lyric, one lyric of a very gifted bowler, and now we're talking about fucking grumpy.

[1:22:53] Jimi: Right.

[1:22:53] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But I don't care. It's these little things that just show that you take care with your rating. They add up. And you still need to. I find nothing, well, I find plenty of things frustrating. One of the things I find very fast and frustrating is inconsistent world building.

[1:23:09] Jimi: Like exactly. Give your world rules and break them if you need to, but then break them. Don't just like never sit down and be like, what are the, you know, 12 tenets of how this world exists? Such a simple thing to fix.

[1:23:21] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like just make it about Sleeping Beauty.

[1:23:24] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:23:25] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:23:25] Jimi: Or, and like Grumpy's a fine choice, but there are other funny choices you could make that don't have to be the seven dwarfs.

[1:23:30] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, it could be Rumpelstiltskin.

[1:23:32] Jimi: Yeah, done. Easy, you know.

[1:23:34] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Bingo. Like, could mean anything.

[1:23:36] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:23:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, and I again, this sounds, I'm hearing this in my head, I'm like, what are you arguing about? But it is, it's that I think that's again, it's the thing that doesn't get me on the side of the musical because I'm like, that's such an easy, blatant fix.

[1:23:51] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:23:52] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like that you haven't taken the care with other aspects of the show. I do think it's a thing that we haven't, that I know I haven't articulated well in the past about my some of my distaste for these kind of franchise shows. Um, and that it isn't just on principle, but it is that they're sloppy like this. They capitalize so much on brand recognition that they feel like they don't have to be intentional in the ways that shows should be intentional.

[1:24:18] Jimi: And it shows. It makes it a worse product, and you could just fix it. There's no reason not to, other than laziness.

[1:24:27] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Exactly.

[1:24:29] Jimi: Exactly. I would completely agree. It's just an, yeah, it's just an easy peasy fix. Um, that's a great segue.

[1:24:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Here we go.

[1:24:38] Jimi: But before we move on, I want to just give a quick applause to John Tartaglia.

[1:24:43] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:24:44] Jimi: Because wow, he is the cornerstone of that musical.

[1:24:49] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: He, I wish they allowed him.

[1:24:51] Jimi: Do you not like John Tartaglia?

[1:24:53] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I like him. I wish they had let him not have a shouty voice.

[1:24:58] Jimi: What do you mean?

[1:24:59] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: He's so shouty the whole time.

[1:25:03] Jimi: Oh.

[1:25:04] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Well, I mean, he's just doing the impression from the, but there are ways to do it that doesn't need to be so shouty.

[1:25:11] Jimi: Well, I think he's just protecting.

[1:25:14] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I'm not gonna listen to any dissing of John Tartaglia. That man has a mission in that show. He's doing a three-track character.

[1:25:21] Jimi: Who is he?

[1:25:22] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Pinocchio.

[1:25:23] Jimi: He's Pinocchio.

[1:25:24] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: He does motion capture for the mirror.

[1:25:27] Jimi: Live motion capture? I'm not kidding.

[1:25:30] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I did not know that.

[1:25:31] Jimi: Okay.

[1:25:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: So he comes off the first scene in Pinocchio, goes backstage, takes off his makeup, gets tracking dots glued to his face.

[1:25:39] Jimi: Uh huh.

[1:25:39] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: They stick a camera. This is the first time this has ever happened on live theater, like live motion capture. He, there he acts that. That is live for some reason. I don't know.

[1:25:47] Jimi: That's a while.

[1:25:48] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I wondered, I thought it was recorded.

[1:25:50] Jimi: This is news to me.

[1:25:52] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Same, same. So live motion capture, the fantastic performance, completely different voice. Who would know? Um, takes that off, puts Pinocchio. No, no, before Pinocchio comes back on, he then goes and he puppets the dragon.

[1:26:00] Jimi: The dragon.

[1:26:05] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, that I knew. And then comes puts Pinocchio back on, comes back as Pinocchio. Three-track character.

[1:26:11] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:26:12] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's really impressive. He is holding the show together.

[1:26:15] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:26:15] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And he's, I love, I just love him. He's a lovely human.

[1:26:18] Jimi: The cutest little bunny.

[1:26:19] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Do you think the, I'm sure the joke is not lost on him that he plays a puppet?

[1:26:25] Jimi: Oh, he begs that up. He's like, this is such a resounding moment for me as a puppeteer.

[1:26:30] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[1:26:30] Jimi: That I am getting to play the ultimate puppet.

[1:26:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right, Pinocchio.

[1:26:33] Jimi: Yeah. It's so like that's great.

[1:26:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:26:36] Jimi: He's just, I just love him. So I just wanted to do a quick we love you, John Tartaglia shout out. Uh, before we move on.

[1:26:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: So right, okay. Segway, hop on.

[1:26:48] Jimi: Um, yes.

[1:26:58] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Never take it down.

[1:26:59] Jimi: Never take it down.

[1:27:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It all makes sense. We need you need to work.

[1:27:09] Jimi: I was, I said we. I'm not including myself in that, I'll never say that my life.

[1:27:11] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You need to get another one of those, Jimi.

[1:27:13] Jimi: It's hey, it's gonna be we, we're gonna make a t-shirt. Hop on my segue.

[1:27:17] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I'm not putting that on a t-shirt, I'm not encouraging it because I don't want it to be a thing.

[1:27:22] Jimi: Uh, I think it'd be so good.

[1:27:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I think people would know.

[1:27:24] Jimi: I don't listen to it.

[1:27:26] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: People are tweeting at you right now, Jimi, telling you that they would buy a Hop on My Segway t-shirt.

[1:27:30] Jimi: Right. Listeners. Would you?

[1:27:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I no, I don't even want to ask that question. Because if they say yes, I don't want to have to make that.

[1:27:39] Jimi: I don't want that. I'm not wearing that.

[1:27:41] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You know that you'd have to wear it.

[1:27:42] Jimi: That's our brand of humor.

[1:27:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That is your brand of humor.

[1:27:48] Jimi: You take that, you take that hour as I sit in. You slap a Y on that bitch.

[1:27:53] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Entirely shitting on like what I think are bad jokes for an hour.

[1:28:00] Jimi: We got all my joke.

[1:28:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But it's fine because we are the authority, so we can say these things.

[1:28:07] Jimi: It's true, yes, we are the only one. We are the best comedians on Earth.

[1:28:11] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's true.

[1:28:11] Jimi: Obviously, anyway. Um, right, no, so we kind of were talking about it there at the end. Um, about franchises invading our musical space, etc., etc.

[1:28:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:28:23] Jimi: Um, and I think this is quite a good discussion to have, because I had a few thoughts actually while I was thinking about it. Um, it was kind of like getting me closer to this, you know, the ultimate question of what is a musical and what makes a good musical.

[1:28:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[1:28:39] Jimi: Um, and what is a significant, you know, I mean, yeah, what is what's significant, what takes up space? Where would we set those things differently? Um, so uh, I was thinking that uh it was to do with this kind of copy paste that they do with the film, the movie to this, yeah.

[1:28:59] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yep.

[1:29:00] Jimi: Um, it was so blatantly like word for word, the joke, everything beat in the film, all the exact same. Yeah, and my instant reaction was like, that's lazy.

[1:29:10] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, that's crap, and that's lazy.

[1:29:12] Jimi: Yeah, and then a light switched on in my head, uh-huh, and I said, but Dave Malloy copy and pasted from The Great Comet. Copy and pasted word for word.

[1:29:26] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, but it's transformative.

[1:29:28] Jimi: I mean, that's the question it begs, right? Shrek is not transformative.

[1:29:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But is it? Did anyone other than Dave Malloy picture what is The Great Comet in their brain when they read War and Peace?

[1:29:44] Jimi: No, but I, I don't mean, I don't mean as a production. I mean that that idea of copying and pasting.

[1:29:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But I think, I think copy and paste is a, is a, you know, it's like copy paste and keep formatting or don't keep formatting. It's a bigger question. Like, you, it's not just copy paste of words, because a musical isn't just words on the page, it's the performance, right? And so like Shrek looks like Shrek.

[1:30:05] Jimi: If Shrek, even if Shrek didn't look like Shrek, already we're on the way for this at least to take a little bit of advantage of the form that it's in.

[1:30:14] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But I just like, is it, is it different? Like, is like what is it that makes me go, ugh, it's Shrek, and not and turn a blind eye for Dave Malloy. That makes me go, Eugenious, you've just taken that right off the page and put it on there.

[1:30:31] Jimi: Like, where wasn't I like Eugenious? You've just taken that joke and put it right on the stage.

[1:30:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Because it's not just about the copy-paste. Because no one's going, I mean, some people are, but the vast majority of people aren't going to see Great Comet because they're, uh, uh, War and Peace stands, right? Like all but in the same way, no, but in the same way, we know that people go and see Shrek not having seen the film.

[1:30:53] Jimi: Fair point, fair point.

[1:30:55] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Okay. You know what I mean?

[1:30:58] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:30:59] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Because I didn't know that they were copy and paste from War and Peace because I'd never read War and Peace.

[1:31:03] Jimi: Right.

[1:31:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And I was like, your use of language, Dave Malloy, is sensational. My gosh, this is beautiful. And then I'm like, oh, actually, wait, this wasn't written by him, this is Leo Tolstoy.

[1:31:13] Jimi: Yeah, I think it's also something, and we're inferring a lot, but it has to do with authorial intent as well. Like the authorial intent for Shrek the Musical's bullshit, right? Shrek's popular, so we're gonna make a musical.

[1:31:26] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But here's the thing.

[1:31:27] Jimi: It's, I'm getting kind of getting this idea of like, well, who actually, who are we to say that this is bullshit? Because it's, and technically, if you're looking at what is it, right? It is the same thing.

[1:31:39] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's the same thing.

[1:31:41] Jimi: Yeah, I, yeah. I still don't like it.

[1:31:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I know, but so that's, this is the kind of conversation I want to have. Is like, so what is it that makes us not like it? Is it because it's making money? Is it because it's, you know, it's part of something that's already big in Great Comet, is, you know, this niche art house.

[1:32:03] Jimi: But I still think, I still think you put too much weight on the copy paste of the words, because there's so much more to that, right? There's so much more intent in the adaptation of War and Peace that Great Comet is, because it is an adaptation, right?

[1:32:20] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Uh huh.

[1:32:21] Jimi: And I do not think Shrek the Musical is a stage adaptation of Shrek.

[1:32:26] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It is a stage.

[1:32:26] Jimi: But it absolutely is a stage adapt because that is exactly what it is. It's not anything else.

[1:32:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Because it's not the film.

[1:32:34] Jimi: Do you know what I mean? It's not right, uh, it's not a shadow cast of Rocky Horror.

[1:32:39] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right, yeah.

[1:32:40] Jimi: Right?

[1:32:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, it still is an adaptation.

[1:32:44] Jimi: So, you know, it's, it's just starting to, and then, yeah, so the other thing I was thinking of then is like, well, how did jukebox musicals fit into that?

[1:32:51] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Sure.

[1:32:52] Jimi: Because there you're copying and pasting someone's music, yeah, and you're putting that on a stage, and there are some that work and there's some that don't. And I do think it is worth, like, I absolutely appreciate Sondheim talks about this in one of the hats about how it is very hard to write something original for the stage just because it's so much work to do the rest of the stuff.

[1:33:13] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:33:14] Jimi: And I, and I, I don't want to diss that, that, you know, we live in a world where musicals generally are gonna be adaptations just because having some of the work done for you before is how the process kind of exists a lot of times.

[1:33:26] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yes.

[1:33:26] Jimi: Uh huh. Inspirations always come from somewhere and ultimately literal, yeah. Um, but I do think, I don't know, I think it is, we're inferring if, if like the whole thing is taking the original pieces and passing them through a filter to get them on stage. We're inferring a lot of what happens in that filter and putting a worth judgment on it, right?

[1:33:46] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Exactly.

[1:33:46] Jimi: And like we have less of a worth judgment on the Shrek version than we do on Great Comet. Um, or even Wicked. Um, which like is, which, yeah.

[1:33:58] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Because that, but Wicked's a great example because I'm a really big Gregory Maguire fan. I think those books are stellar, like I absolutely love them.

[1:34:07] Jimi: And the musical is a bastardizer's bastardized version of the book.

[1:34:10] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's such a shit adaptation.

[1:34:12] Jimi: And I do think it's successful because people didn't read the book, you know.

[1:34:17] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[1:34:17] Jimi: So here's, so this is what I mean. So this is the thing, is like, where, where does this kind of fit in this use of the word matrix again? Like matrix, or maths people know, um, like of musical theater. Because also there are plenty of original, completely original musicals out there that stink.

[1:34:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Oh yeah, totally.

[1:34:37] Jimi: That stink up the place. Like there's no point in them existing because there's n they're just, they're crap.

[1:34:43] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:34:44] Jimi: Um, so you can't, you know, I mean, you don't have that ability to say you franchises are taking up space um with your adaptations, yeah. Because we could be having original stuff. I do wonder what does that mean? That's this is what, you know, I mean, this is the kind of existential moment I'm having here.

[1:35:02] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I will also add into your question, why do we judge, and maybe we don't, but I'll ask it anyway. Why do we judge musicals more strongly on the how close or whatever the relationship to their adaptations are than any other piece of art, right?

[1:35:18] Jimi: Completely, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:35:20] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like even some, uh, you know, even like we were, we were talking in last call about Marvel movies, um, and stalwart comic fans still have like, I have not seen the like whole hog dismissal of these, you know, frivolous movie adaptations, right?

[1:35:39] Jimi: Absolutely.

[1:35:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Generally speaking, the reaction is like, yeah, this is what I want. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:35:46] Jimi: Right?

[1:35:46] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, and certainly there are some people, you know, who have, uh, Harold Potter, sorry, just like, you know, the books better than the movie is a trope until date like forever and ever.

[1:36:00] Jimi: Right.

[1:36:00] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But it's not, you know, musicals kind of sit in an outside genre that way, and I wonder if it is because it's still such a small art form. Whereas, like, you know, people do movie podcasts, let's say, but they don't talk about every movie or any movie, you know.

[1:36:22] Jimi: You gotta like zoom in a little bit somehow.

[1:36:25] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Where there's, yeah, where there's literally a chance that they could cover every single, that's never gonna, exactly, and like people don't have, there isn't as much of a, uh, uh, presumed set structure to cinema. I'm saying this as a, as a question mark, there's a squiggly line still under this statement, but like, you know, the perhaps because of how much longer, well no, because musical theater has existed for some reason things seem freer in the genre of cinema. You can do a lot of things. Um, certainly there are some standard tried and true structures, um, but they get broken all the time or they're pretty malleable into different forms. Um, to the point where cinema has subgenre upon subgenre fractally down in a thousand different ways.

Musical theater has a much smaller bookshelf of subgenres, you know, because perhaps it has more of a standard structure and so then any adaptation we're kind of judging it on how it does or doesn't fit into this kind of nebulous pre-established structure, question mark?

[1:36:25] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, yeah, I wonder if it's definitely something of that. I think as well though there's, um, do you think there's an element of um infighting in the way that, uh, in a similar way with um gay people, right? We are often our most judgmental critics sure of other gay people, yeah, right? Yeah, as musical theater fans perhaps are we often the most like because it is a small, we're still pulling from a very small pool, yeah. Um, is that why we're, because I think we are as a fandom, uh, very judgmental and very opinionated, yeah. Um, I, I kind of w, I would say more so than than cinema in the same way that like I don't have an opinion on French art house films.

[1:38:41] Jimi: Right.

[1:38:42] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Because I'm like, well, I don't know, but you also don't like, I also think our opinionation is also, this might be tangential, but it's also creates for a much stronger gatekeeping effect. Umas like you don't have an opinion on French art house films and you feel like you could probably just go watch one right now, right?

[1:39:00] Jimi: Right, yeah.

[1:39:01] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But like there's those whole swaths of people who are like, well, you just don't understand cats. Like us included, we're a part of the system. Uh, and it's a big thing that I actually really struggle with a lot because I tell people all the time who are naysayers, like there's, you just don't understand, like there is a musical for everyone. Like you're seeing one show and you're judging the whole thing, blah, blah, blah. And yet at the same time, I know that I can be like, you like that? Well, come on, you don't know anything.

[1:39:35] Jimi: Mm-hmm. That's so stupid, that's so bad.

[1:39:39] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's so hypocritical. You know what I mean? Do you think it's related to like delivery method? This is, I've been rolling this around in my brain, is like part of it is, you know, cinema, they're not really there. They're not actually people, and you know that. And so already suspension of disbelief is a different ball game. Um, once you've seen it, it's done. Right?

[1:40:07] Jimi: Mo, all art forms other than performance, once you've seen it, it's complete for the most part. You read a book, it's done. You look at a painting, it's done. You listen to music, it's done. The, because this is a living, breathing art form, they could fix it, which I think is part of the reason why I find myself being hypercritical of stuff is like, you could, you could change this. People do. You know, we already talked about it. They changed the dragon. You work, and it's part of how the art form exists. You workshop the thing in Boston and bring it to New York.

[1:40:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But I also think there's something, you know, it's why people are afraid to go to the ballet. Because there's etiquette involved. There's secret rules, um, and maybe there isn't, but it feels that way.

[1:40:51] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:40:52] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Often there is, like there's not a lot of secret rules of going to the movie theater. In fact, they'll tell you all the secret rules before the movie starts. Turn your phone off, don't talk with people, like, you know, Alamo Draft House will murder you if you do.

[1:41:05] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:41:07] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But I don't know. It is, I think you're on to an interesting point about, right? Isn't it like this will be my next book? Like, is what is this? Because I know I notice it in our conversations that we have where I'm like, are things that I will prejudge or have prejudged because it is from a franchise or it is, you know, I mean produced by a big house and I meant it like, well, you know, this should be so much better if it was an original story.

[1:41:35] Jimi: I do think it's a good thing.

[1:41:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And then Dear Evan Hansen. I mean, we're gonna get super political wonky here for a second, but I do think our opinions come from like a very anti-capitalist assumption, um, and is like an internal protest against the, uh, uh, franchization of art. Um, and you know, I think musicals were one of the first places where America started to see it pretty overtly. Um, and now, and it's now literally the biggest.

[1:42:05] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:42:05] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And like Disney owns everything, right?

[1:42:09] Jimi: Right.

[1:42:09] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, you know, I saw an article today that was about, um, you know, have you heard any news about how, uh, Disney World's faring after they've opened in a COVID world?

[1:42:21] Jimi: No, you haven't.

[1:42:22] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Have you thought about that for a second? And you've heard no news articles. Don't you think there'd be one that says things are going well? But there's not. So why haven't you heard anything? It's something people are interested in. Why is it not being reported on?

[1:42:40] Jimi: And I think that's bad for a society in general, and it's tied to these, you know, take Shrek. As much as we may or may not like it, as much as it is even like the indiest of big corporations making a musical, DreamWorks is not huge, was still independent when this happened. Um, but like when a show like this, for example, has, uh, the Little Red Riding Hood's Wolf drop the T slur in it, and that becomes normalizing, when there's a corporation behind that, that becomes problematic when art starts to be created by faceless entities as opposed to individual people.

[1:43:26] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And certainly we still put on top that, you know, uh, Lindsay Abair and Tesori wrote this thing, but DreamWorks also wrote this thing. You know, these are some of the lies of theater, right? In the same way that, like, quote unquote, John Williams wrote all the Star Wars music. No, he didn't. He wrote some of it. He wrote the important pieces. And then he has a bunch of other subcomposers who he works with who helped him on all the other stuff. Broadway lighting designers do this. You know, Ken Billington didn't do the lighting design on his own. He's got a house, but we don't call it, you know, Ken Billington design production services. It's just him and then the people he hires.

[1:44:04] Jimi: And so when the pyramid underneath the art, when the patrons become so big, and we're realizing how influential and insidious, you know, media representation in any way can become, it becomes a really slippery slope when all the plays are produced by the king, right? And then they're all going to be very pro-king. We get the same sort of thing when all the plays are produced by the mouse. And this is a sign where the theater we love is theater that challenges societal norms, that challenges problems, that like puts a mic, uh, uh, magnifying glass on top of it.

[1:44:46] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like that's one of the things we say and proclaim that art is supposed to do when the controlling interests become larger and larger and larger. I think that, I think that is the seed, or part of the seed at least, for why we have such a distaste for these franchise shows. Whereas, like, Dave Malloy can say something, and he doesn't have to worry about a team of lawyers coming in to watch and say, like, well, that doesn't align with our brand image.

[1:45:19] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:45:22] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But there's so many exceptions.

[1:45:24] Jimi: Fair.

[1:45:26] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And there's, and on both sides of the coin. Because there's so much Disney that I adore and I think is important.

[1:45:33] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:45:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right? And tells good stories.

[1:45:36] Jimi: Totally.

[1:45:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right? And tells them well.

[1:45:38] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:45:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: There's also so many indies that do the opposite. Tell stories that I'd rather not see the light of day.

[1:45:49] Jimi: Exactly.

[1:45:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Exactly. Um, so it's that kind of thing. It's like, well, you, you kinda can't get it right then. You, there is no, there's no prescribed way of saying this is going to be good, this is going to be bad, I should like this, I shouldn't like this.

[1:46:07] Jimi: Um, I guess that's the point. It's like, yes, you should just approach everything with an open mind, but we don't.

[1:46:14] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:46:14] Jimi: You know what I mean? And I think, and particularly with musical theater, because there is this stigma that no one can say what it is.

[1:46:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:46:23] Jimi: They say it's jazz hands, but when was the last time you saw a pair of jazz hands on a musical theater stage? Um, like there is this stigma that exists, and I find it so hard to fight against it. Uh, and I think the answer's somewhere in here.

[1:46:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, I do think it does have something to do with the fact that musicals exist in a bubble around themselves. Like Beetlejuice the musical is as much about Alex Brightman as it is about Beetlejuice, let's say. You know, the, like Hugh Jackman and Meredith Wilson's The Music Man is absolutely as much about Hugh Jackman as it is about The Music Man, right?

[1:47:06] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:47:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And Scott Rudin and the whole, the whole world around it. Um, and musicals are kind of built that way. Like even we, we didn't talk about it when we were talking about the structure of the show, but like this is one of those Shrek is one of those stupid shows that throws out musical theater references left and right. You know, Les Mis, uh, uh, Chorus Line, Chicago, Wicked, Gypsy, it's all through there.

[1:47:33] Jimi: Um, and like that, first off, is off putting to someone who doesn't get it, right? That's, that's an in joke for the in club, which is unfair. It's also lazy writing.

[1:47:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, and like also all sorts of shows reference the show next door, right? You know, and it often it's written in the script, like I think it's in the Spamalot script where I forget what show they're referencing, but it's like this was a joke about the show that was playing across the street. Feel free to change it to something appropriate to your time.

[1:48:04] Jimi: Right.

[1:48:05] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's, it's, it's lazy writing and it perpetuates this like in group of musical theater that like, f, when would, uh, like, um, rarely, unless that's the whole point of the movie, does a movie just have like a one liner, you know, unless it's something so culturally significant, like pulling, you know, Luke, I am your father, um, or, uh, you looking at me punk, like beyond that, there aren't like deep nuanced references to other pieces of musical theater that you'll miss if you don't understand that that's the choreography from Chicago.

[1:48:44] Jimi: Mm-hmm.

[1:48:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But those usually happen in musicals I don't like.

[1:48:51] Jimi: You know?

[1:48:52] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But they also happen in musicals I like, and I love it when they happen because I'm like, oh my god, that's brilliant.

[1:48:57] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:48:57] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I get, and like the original Urinetown was all built on musical theater. That's what, that's what it is.

[1:49:02] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:49:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, it's a send up.

[1:49:04] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:49:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I think, Jimmy, like many of these conversations, we're coming to land on like a very simplistic statement after a very complex discussion. Um, but I think it is something that like art is subjective.

[1:49:18] Jimi: Right, right.

[1:49:20] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: A hundred percent for sure.

[1:49:22] Jimi: Absolutely.

[1:49:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But it's just, I don't know. I think like I wanna try and take, because like if I approached it with that art and subjective thing, and then watched Shrek the Musical, would I be thinking about it completely differently, potentially.

[1:49:35] Jimi: Potentially.

[1:49:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But I do think, you know, and this is, I right, Adjeloid Rebber Cinderella. Yeah, I've already said I won't like this.

[1:49:44] Jimi: Right.

[1:49:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I might fucking love it if I gave it the chance.

[1:49:48] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:49:48] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But I won't. But I do think, you know, I think what we're talking about is, um, uh, uh, gosh, I don't have the good word for it. You know, this is gonna be masturbatory, but um, we run this podcast. We talk about musical theater, people like and listen to our opinions and often agree with us.

[1:50:05] Jimi: So I sometimes agree with us.

[1:50:08] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Caveat. Big asterisk. We love all take away that often. Um, but there's still something there, right? We land on opinions that from time to time people agree with. So then there is some collective assumption of what this is.

[1:50:25] Jimi: But case in point, yeah.

[1:50:27] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You made a video dissing Shrek the musical and you have received pelts from it like no other.

[1:50:32] Jimi: Yeah, totally.

[1:50:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: So there is no art subjective.

[1:50:37] Jimi: And I fully believe those people are wrong, right?

[1:50:41] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I say only half jokingly.

[1:50:44] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:50:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You know, because clearly I'm right.

[1:50:48] Jimi: You're sometimes right.

[1:50:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But also we've found in this podcast sometimes you're very wrong.

[1:50:54] Jimi: Usually I'm very wrong.

[1:50:55] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And at one point you gave compliments to Cats.

[1:50:57] Jimi: So that's true.

[1:50:58] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:50:59] Jimi: We know you can change.

[1:51:00] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I'm glad hold on, we can put a check off that you reminded me of this in this podcast.

[1:51:05] Jimi: Yep.

[1:51:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Good.

[1:51:06] Jimi: That's this week's done.

[1:51:08] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um yeah, that was the only reason I brought up that whole point, actually, just to bring that up.

[1:51:11] Jimi: So yeah, go we're done.

[1:51:12] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You saw that you saw the timer ticking, and you're like, oh, haven't got him to say it yet.

[1:51:17] Jimi: I know.

[1:51:18] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um yeah, uh it's an interesting discussion point.

[1:51:22] Jimi: Let's all discuss it.

[1:51:23] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: We're all listening and we've all got opinions and we've all got ideas on this.

[1:51:26] Jimi: I want to hear people's thoughts on this because it's such a tricky thing.

[1:51:30] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And I do want to hear people like what are people's answers for when you have that conversation, you're like, oh, I'm not really into musicals.

[1:51:37] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:51:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And you're like, you've just shot on my entire butt, like you shot on a whole art form.

[1:51:42] Jimi: Right.

[1:51:43] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And you don't realize you're doing it.

[1:51:44] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:51:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But so you think it's nonsense.

[1:51:47] Jimi: But like Jimmy, I don't really like sports.

[1:51:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: But you don't hate all sports.

[1:51:53] Jimi: Fair, but I don't like most of them.

[1:51:56] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I mean, absolutely.

[1:51:58] Jimi: But also I think, again, I would I would as a sports fan, uh I would probably say there's definitely a sport out there that you would love.

[1:52:07] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, fair.

[1:52:08] Jimi: But I'm also pretty confident that most sports you put in front of me I probably wouldn't enjoy watching.

[1:52:13] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: What about like the Olympics?

[1:52:15] Jimi: Yeah, not for me.

[1:52:16] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I like watching the opening ceremonies 'cause it's theatrical, but...

[1:52:20] Jimi: Right.

[1:52:20] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And like gym gymnasts?

[1:52:23] Jimi: No.

[1:52:24] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I'm not interested.

[1:52:25] Jimi: I'm not interested in the sport of it, you know.

[1:52:27] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I see why people like I don't mind watching it, but I would never turn it on on my own.

[1:52:32] Jimi: Okay, fair.

[1:52:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I certainly would never follow it with any kind of, you know, I could tell you Michael Phelps and maybe Kristi Yamaguchi, like how many Olympians can I name? Um Gus Kenworthy, but that's for other reasons.

[1:52:48] Jimi: Um it's not like I get it.

[1:52:52] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I get the statement I don't like musicals.

[1:52:57] Jimi: I get why someone would say that and why it would feel mostly true to them.

[1:53:02] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, but is it diff is there a difference because this is turning into such a thing, sorry.

[1:53:07] Jimi: Um but like is there is there a difference because sport isn't art?

[1:53:12] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Hmm, fair.

[1:53:14] Jimi: Right? And art is subjective and therefore are the chances out there that you will like this one because it's, you know, because no you won't like when people say I don't like films.

[1:53:30] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:53:31] Jimi: I don't buy it.

[1:53:31] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[1:53:32] Jimi: Do you know what I mean?

[1:53:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's just you don't have a good attention span, maybe.

[1:53:34] Jimi: So let's get set you down in front of a short film.

[1:53:37] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[1:53:37] Jimi: Do you know what I mean?

[1:53:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:53:38] Jimi: Like uh when it does it we're we're I think we're broaching some, you know, big existential philosophical question.

[1:53:46] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Big things, the big thing.

[1:53:47] Jimi: What is what is art?

[1:53:48] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I think there's great discussions about like how close is figure skating to musicals, much closer.

[1:53:53] Jimi: Well, I know.

[1:53:54] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[1:53:54] Jimi: That's is when I said that, I was like, I'm being diminished here.

[1:53:57] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: There's some simplification going on for sure.

[1:54:00] Jimi: Totally.

[1:54:00] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Totally.

[1:54:01] Jimi: Um video games.

[1:54:02] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Video games.

[1:54:03] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:54:04] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I mean, yeah.

[1:54:04] Jimi: They are the they are the link between sport and art.

[1:54:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:54:08] Jimi: Interactive art.

[1:54:09] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:54:10] Jimi: I don't know.

[1:54:11] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's all the putting categories around uh human existence is something we really like to do, and something that once it's put under any form of scrutiny becomes nearly impossible.

[1:54:23] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:54:24] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:54:25] Jimi: Which is why I don't know the point.

[1:54:29] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I don't even know the point.

[1:54:30] Jimi: I wanted I don't even know the answer that I wanted.

[1:54:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[1:54:34] Jimi: But it's hard to even phrase the question.

[1:54:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Uh yeah, I just I don't even think there was a question at any point.

[1:54:39] Jimi: I just wanted to open up that world of like we like one thing, we we don't like this one and the same thing.

[1:54:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: What does that mean?

[1:54:48] Jimi: I do think, and this has been on my radar um or in rolling around in my mind now that uh Mr. Brantley is uh leaving his post.

[1:54:58] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I know, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[1:54:58] Jimi: Um can't wait for his scathing novel.

[1:55:04] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I know, right?

[1:55:05] Jimi: Whatever, who cares?

[1:55:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah, like if he goes down forgotten in history, that seems fine.

[1:55:10] Jimi: I do think there is a discussion to be had about cons conscience well, say that word for me, conscientious criticism.

[1:55:18] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um how do you talk about art in a way that doesn't punch down, but still can be critical?

[1:55:29] Jimi: Um you know, uh and I think there's a uh it's a place where like a code of ethics could be written.

[1:55:37] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like you could put some rules or guidelines around that sort of thing.

[1:55:41] Jimi: Um in a way that I think would be useful.

[1:55:43] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You know, I think we try to to wait our way through how to do that on this podcast with varying success.

[1:55:49] Jimi: It's a target.

[1:55:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um sometimes we're close, sometimes we're wildly off.

[1:55:54] Jimi: But w it is a goal I think we share is to be uh uh I don't know, polite's the wrong word, but thoughtful about...

[1:55:54] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Thoughtful, yeah, considerate, yeah, conscientious.

[1:56:05] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:56:05] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um, you know, around criticism, which then adds more I hope, you know, validity to how you get to your criticism.

[1:56:15] Jimi: Yeah, I think so.

[1:56:16] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You know, starting with I statements, having these meta discussions around this sort of stuff about how you get to criticism, how you get to these ideas, being aware of your biases and extolling them, telling people, you know, as as we did with this, like w I have this video about Trek where I bashed it before, we love the movie, we have a distaste for franchise productions, and we're still gonna have a thoughtful conversation about what's in it, know that it it's tainted by these previous interests.

[1:56:43] Jimi: And we know the like we're not s we are not devaluing the people who love this show.

[1:56:48] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[1:56:48] Jimi: And because we see why they love this show.

[1:56:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Exactly.

[1:56:51] Jimi: And no one does that in black and white newspaper theater reviews at all.

[1:56:57] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um even even critics I like or respect.

[1:57:02] Jimi: Um you know, maybe we'd be a better world if we did.

[1:57:06] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:57:06] Jimi: Well that's why we're not critics.

[1:57:08] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's true.

[1:57:09] Jimi: I think that is what separates us, is and I don't like being called a critic or calling this because I don't I don't think I I genuinely don't think we are.

[1:57:17] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:57:18] Jimi: Like I think we're reviewers, uh if anything.

[1:57:22] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Like that's what it would come closest to if you're putting it in that bracket.

[1:57:26] Jimi: Sure.

[1:57:27] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Because even so, even as we're discussing Shrek we're not saying we're not saying this is shit, full stop.

[1:57:35] Jimi: Right.

[1:57:35] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: We're saying this is why I don't like it and this is how I think it can be better.

[1:57:39] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:57:39] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: We're much on I would say closer to the side of scholars than critics.

[1:57:43] Jimi: Um Scorpionars, I hate this.

[1:57:46] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I know it's terrible.

[1:57:48] Jimi: It is terrible.

[1:57:49] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's not untrue.

[1:57:50] Jimi: Scholars.

[1:57:51] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: We're cited in so many theses?

[1:57:53] Jimi: That's a real thing.

[1:57:54] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right?

[1:57:54] Jimi: We're in academic papers.

[1:57:56] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um stupid isn't it?

[1:57:58] Jimi: Isn't that wild?

[1:57:58] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Stupid.

[1:57:59] Jimi: How many do you think Ben Brantley are in?

[1:58:01] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:58:02] Jimi: Probably more than us than Tom.

[1:58:02] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Don't worry, bringing us right back down.

[1:58:09] Jimi: Um yeah exactly.

[1:58:09] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: No, but I think like to to bring us down a bit like uh it I don't feel I mean I know I'm not an authority.

[1:58:18] Jimi: Like I know I I don't have the answers and I know I don't know everything.

[1:58:22] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Well we also go in with a different goal ostensibly than the newspaper critic, right?

[1:58:26] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:58:27] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You know we're not saying go watch Shrek or don't.

[1:58:29] Jimi: I guess we do that for some shows, but it's rare.

[1:58:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Um you know we're often more talking about like the the thing is a piece of literature than as a a place to spend your money.

[1:58:41] Jimi: Yeah we kind of talk about it as if it's existed for a hundred years.

[1:58:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Right.

[1:58:45] Jimi: Yeah no matter what it is.

[1:58:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:58:49] Jimi: Which I would say puts us more on the side of scholars.

[1:58:53] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's funny.

[1:58:53] Jimi: Is there another word that isn't scholars?

[1:58:55] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Well we'll work shop because scholars I don't know like I feel like you need to go to uni to be a scholar.

[1:59:00] Jimi: Uh screw high school we could if we went if that's the thing.

[1:59:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: If we did like if we were reading musical theater, if we were the traditional Scotland we are I guess we are, because that you know that whole bookshelf is filled with books about theatre.

[1:59:13] Jimi: Oh yeah.

[1:59:14] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I mean, we're we're an invitation away from giving guest lectures.

[1:59:17] Jimi: I say that non-jokingly.

[1:59:22] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Oh, it makes you feel sick.

[1:59:24] Jimi: I know, it's gross.

[1:59:25] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's terrible.

[1:59:28] Jimi: Any of this in restarting the show, we're gonna talk about fucking here.

[1:59:37] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Just we'll make fart noises again.

[1:59:40] Jimi: I am a good burper though.

[1:59:42] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Good for you.

[1:59:42] Jimi: It's amazing.

[1:59:43] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I love burps.

[1:59:44] Jimi: Do you? That's weird though, isn't it?

[1:59:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[1:59:45] Jimi: Hate farts, love burps.

[1:59:47] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Put that in your Tinder.

[1:59:48] Jimi: It goes back, it goes right back to it.

[1:59:50] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I like one thing I like the other than the same thing.

[1:59:53] Jimi: It's all flatulence.

[1:59:54] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You should put that in your Tinder profile.

[1:59:57] Jimi: Hate farts, love burps.

[1:59:59] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: That's a fucking t-shirt.

[2:00:08] Jimi: Fuck your segue.

[2:00:18] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: We are riches.

[2:00:20] Jimi: We are fairies.

[2:00:21] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: We are weirdos.

[2:00:22] Jimi: I'm an Aries!

[2:00:24] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: We're a giant big sandwich.

[2:00:30] Jimi: We are past this.

[2:00:31] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: We are hardists with diamonds.

[2:00:36] Jimi: We're a screen.

[2:00:40] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: We are different.

[2:00:43] Jimi: You are us, and we are you saw me.

[2:01:17] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Jimi, that was Shrek the musical.

[2:01:20] Jimi: Then I saw her face.

[2:01:22] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Damn, down, damn, bab, da.

[2:01:24] Jimi: Don't even talk about that.

[2:01:25] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: We didn't even talk about that.

[2:01:26] Jimi: We didn't even talk about that.

[2:01:28] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Out of town, that song was like the exit music.

[2:01:31] Jimi: Yes.

[2:01:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: How on earth did they just not make it at the end of the uh, they did.

[2:01:36] Jimi: Because they were like, it's a pop song, that would be weird.

[2:01:39] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Well.

[2:01:40] Jimi: The whole thing isn't in the movie.

[2:01:44] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's Shrek in the Swamps karaoke dance party.

[2:01:47] Jimi: Don't go chin to try and please me.

[2:01:52] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You never let me down before.

[2:01:55] Jimi: I wish I hope this is a deep character trait of you that whenever you sing.

[2:02:02] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You sing at karaoke as Shrek.

[2:02:04] Jimi: I think that should be a fun little joke you do.

[2:02:07] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I don't mean black velvet.

[2:02:09] Jimi: As Shrek.

[2:02:10] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Yeah.

[2:02:20] Jimi: I got a quiz question for you.

[2:02:22] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: It's probably for best.

[2:02:23] Jimi: This musical was in development concurrently with another popular musical franchise as a backup plan in the event that the production company could not secure appropriate rights.

[2:02:33] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Thankfully, the company decided to finish both movies.

[2:02:37] Jimi: Thankfully.

[2:02:38] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Thank goodness.

[2:02:41] Jimi: If you would like to get in touch with us, please do.

[2:02:44] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Our show Twitter and Instagram is at Jim and Tomic.

[2:02:47] Jimi: That is J I M A D T O M S E Jim and Tommy.

[2:02:52] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Jim and Tomic.

[2:02:53] Jimi: Or drop us an email onto our website, Jim and Tomic.com.

[2:02:57] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And while you're there, you can check out our Patreon if you want to financially support the show.

[2:03:00] Jimi: Um thank you to our current patrons.

[2:03:03] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: You can also check out Last Call, which is our uh video podcast of stuff that doesn't really make the cut into this version of the podcast that you're listening to now.

[2:03:11] Jimi: It's a hoot and a half.

[2:03:13] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: They're a ton of fun, aren't they?

[2:03:15] Jimi: I like watching them.

[2:03:16] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: I really, really like watching them.

[2:03:17] Jimi: Um yes, but hey, if you don't want to do any of that, that is absolutely fine.

[2:03:20] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Reviews on Apple Podcasts are always super duper helpful and you know help us get our name out there a little bit.

[2:03:26] Jimi: Absolutely.

[2:03:27] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: And most most of all, it helps when you tell other people about uh this little show that we do.

[2:03:31] Jimi: We love all of you who do.

[2:03:32] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: We love all of you who listen.

[2:03:34] Jimi: It's you know, thank you.

[2:03:36] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Oh, what a cute moment.

[2:03:38] Jimi: Um hey, that's all for this week.

[2:03:41] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Thank you very much for listening and Tommy.

[2:03:44] Jimi: Cheers.

[2:03:45] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: Cheers, Jimi.

[2:04:01] Jimi: We were so impressed by that foley work we couldn't even say anything.

[2:04:04] Tommy’s Karaoke Dance Party: We both looked the same face.