This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jimi: Stephen Colbert posted because, you know, during the current unpleasantness, we've all had to—all the late-night talk shows have been doing their interviews over Zoom. Um, but it means they have to have the talent self-slate from their home. And he compiled together famous people saying, like, you know, Meryl Streep, Stephen Colbert, three, two, one. But like all the people getting it wrong. Just like not understanding that you have to say your name and not only Steven Colbert, and like, and people be like, three, two, one. And like, no, no. You gotta—it's not how we gotta go back and do it again.

[0:40] Tommy: Uh, that is—I have the exact same story.

[0:42] Jimi: Yeah.

[0:43] Tommy: But for a different thing. So for, um, we just did the "Let It Go" video. Um, so to sync everyone up, we just had like at the start, right? Classic. Um, so what our sound engineer did for a lark was just layer over the 30 singers and their claps, and it was literally just like no one was in the same time with anyone, nor the track. So that was great.

[1:15] Jimi: That's delightful.

[1:16] Tommy: Uh, it's so hard about slating.

[1:18] Jimi: I know. We—I mean, we—I—they teach kids how to write checks in high school. We should teach kids how to slate. That is a more important life skill these days.

[1:27] Tommy: Get that on the curriculum right now.

[1:31] Jimi: Well, somebody get us another drink.

[1:33] Tommy: Welcome to Jim and Tomic's musical theater happy hour. I'm Tommy.

[1:38] Jimi: And I'm Jimi, and this is the only musical theater podcast with all of skewers and mean reviewers. Here, we take apart your favorite shows, muddle them together with a shot of buffoonery, and pour you a refreshing glass of musical theater conversation.

[1:53] Jimi: Tommy, what are you drinking today?

[1:56] Tommy: Well, Jimi, today I'm just drinking pure unadulterated syrup.

[2:04] Jimi: You know there's sugar in syrup.

[2:06] Tommy: Is there?

[2:06] Jimi: Yeah.

[2:10] Tommy: Did you like the way I said it?

[2:13] Jimi: It was quite sexy.

[2:15] Tommy: Oh, I was gonna use the word sensual, but now I'm reeling back from that one because it's making me uncomfortable.

[2:21] Tommy: Hey, read the quiz question.

[2:23] Jimi: Syrup. And do you like the way I'm pronouncing it? I come from Minnesota.

[2:29] Tommy: How would you say it with just your home accent?

[2:29] Jimi: Syrup.

[2:29] Tommy: Really?

[2:34] Jimi: Well, that's what I was really putting on.

[2:37] Tommy: I would say syrup.

[2:37] Jimi: Syrup.

[2:40] Tommy: Now I don't know what I would say.

[2:42] Jimi: I would probably say syrup.

[2:44] Tommy: You wouldn't say like syrup?

[2:47] Jimi: I probably wouldn't say syrup, but I'm from the Midwest where people do.

[2:50] Tommy: That's true, that's true.

[2:51] Jimi: Yeah. But I would probably say syrup, but I'm too into it now to know.

[2:54] Tommy: But next time I do it without thinking about it, I'll think about it afterwards and I'll let everybody know.

[2:59] Jimi: Thank you. I would expect a tweet.

[3:02] Tommy: Oh, by the way. I see it.

[3:04] Jimi: It's gonna be in like five months.

[3:05] Tommy: Yeah, it's gonna be great.

[3:07] Jimi: Anyway, hey! A musical adaptation of this holiday film is, as far as we can tell, Jay Leno's only foray into musical theater. What is it?

[3:21] Tommy: What could it be?

[3:22] Jimi: I think it's Elf.

[3:23] Tommy: It's the story of Buddy!

[3:27] Jimi: It's the story of Buddy!

[3:30] Tommy: It's the story of Buddy and the box of my right off the shell.

[3:35] Jimi: It's the story of Buddy of the story of Buddy and the box of Paradise the story of Buddy Artyom. It's the story of that story, the next story, the next story.

[4:02] Jimi: That's the story of Buddy B Elf.

[4:06] Tommy: Hey! Merry Christmas.

[4:08] Jimi: Merry Christmas.

[4:08] Tommy: Happy holidays.

[4:09] Jimi: Happy holidays. We're doing the Elf musical. It is currently December 27th.

[4:14] Tommy: Um, so knocking it out of the park.

[4:18] Jimi: Absolutely. We're still in the holiday spirit, aren't we?

[4:21] Tommy: That's true. I mean, it's probably based on when my Amazon packages are gonna arrive. The holiday season might last the next two months.

[4:29] Jimi: Exactly. Exactly. Well, we're in this like nebulous time.

[4:32] Tommy: Well, uh, we're kind of in that time anyway. But I was gonna say we're in that like nebulous time between Christmas and New Year's.

[4:37] Jimi: It is like a double nebulous time zone, isn't it?

[4:40] Tommy: Double nebula, yeah.

[4:41] Jimi: Yeah. Like it's a time outside of time, outside of time.

[4:45] Tommy: Well, I'm like for the first time experiencing it because normally I work in this station. So I'm fine. But not this time. I'm on holiday, and yeah, it is Nebula. Sleeping pattern gone.

[4:57] Jimi: What time of day is it? Where are we? Is it Tuesday? Does anybody know?

[5:00] Tommy: Exactly. Why is it half past midnight right now and I have the most energy I've had all day?

[5:05] Jimi: Yep. Nobody knows. That's that time. Um, because of the nebula. Uh, so anyway, Elf.

[5:10] Tommy: Um, it has music by Mr. Matthew Sklar and lyrics. This is a fun one because everyone's got something to do with Elf. Uh, music by Matthew Sklar, lyrics by Chad Beguelin, uh, book by Thomas Meehan and Bob Martin.

[5:26] Jimi: It's a lot of people. And it's a wild crew. Like they've all worked out a white man, eh?

[5:30] Tommy: Yeah, that's true. You know. Telling this story of diversity? No.

[5:35] Jimi: Um, extra. Uh, based, as I'm sure you know, on the 2003 movie Elf. Uh, it opened on Broadway for a limited run in 2010, in the West End in 2015. I think it had a Broadway revival in 2012.

[5:48] Tommy: It's had a bunch of tours. Um, apparently, Jimi tells me it had an arena production tour in the UK in 2018 and 2019. We will be talking about that because yeah, that's a fun one.

[6:01] Jimi: Um, and then as we discovered when we were trying to figure out this quiz question, it was adapted into a television movie short, stop motion, kind of like the Rankin and Bass movies, featuring Jay Leno.

[6:13] Tommy: Exactly. Emmy nominated, I think.

[6:15] Jimi: Yeah, wild. Winning. Like who knew? Um, hey, Tommy, tell us the story of Buddy the Elf.

[6:23] Tommy: Oh, sing us the song. Let me open my book and make a local joke about the flora and fauna that'll make the adults laugh in the audience. Ho ho ho ho boy am I arms tired.

[6:37] Jimi: Uh, Buddy the Elf is the story of a human child. Buddy the Elf is elf.

[6:43] Tommy: Oh, just Elf.

[6:44] Jimi: It's just called Elf. Elf is the story of a human child named Buddy, uh, who mysteriously and accidentally crawled into Santa's bag, uh, in one night, one Christmas Eve day, uh, and was taken in by Santa and raised as an elf.

[7:00] Tommy: Um, and did not know that he was indeed a human, in spite of being much taller than his elf compatriots. Um, taught all the elf ways, is very happy and jolly all the time, builds toys, lives in Christmas town, um, and one day some of Buddy's cotton-headed ninny muggins co-workers spill the beans.

[7:23] Jimi: I don't want to put an explicit tag on this.

[7:25] Tommy: And uh, divulge that Buddy is not an elf but is indeed a human. So Buddy returns to his homeland of New York, um, in search of his father, uh, who he finds. He's a bit of a Scrooge-ish character, uh, who works for a children's book company.

[7:41] Jimi: Um, he also falls in love, briefly works at Macy's, and eats some spaghetti covered in syrup. And in the end, uh, they save Christmas. Other stuff happens in the middle, but it's really inconsequential.

[7:55] Tommy: Pretty much. The main thing you need to know is he saves Christmas.

[7:58] Jimi: He saves Christmas by making people believe. I mean, how else do you save Christmas? That's give me another, you know, I mean, give me another way.

[8:07] Tommy: I do wish they did pull the like clap! Clap if you believe in Christmas. Like saying they sang. And they do sing, and then Santa flies not over the audience but over the stage, very dimly lit in a sleigh.

[8:20] Jimi: Yeah, very dimly lit.

[8:22] Tommy: Yeah. So they can you can't see the wires. Um, fun fun Christmas time stuff. If you know the movie, it's the show.

[8:33] Jimi: Yeah. Well, hey. First segue of the pod, my friend.

[8:39] Tommy: Let's talk about that movie.

[8:41] Jimi: Vroom vroom. What sound does a segue make?

[8:44] Tommy: Um, so we probably like I think they're relatively quiet.

[8:49] Jimi: Yeah, because it's like, alright.

[8:52] Tommy: And if you're at a lost, remember the phrase that says to thine own health be true. For when it comes to Christmas displays, look inside, and you'll know what to do.

[9:09] Tommy: Don't notice one. Put some cheery folder ball on every wall and every note. Give the world a holiday.

[9:22] Jimi: That's right as can be. Make it sparkle, jolly, and drink a jingle.

[9:28] Tommy: Great sound fate. Um, also you said vroom vroom. That just reminded me of the classic babe. I'm in my mom's car.

[9:37] Jimi: Wow! Listen to that. Do that again.

[9:40] Tommy: I don't know if I could.

[9:41] Jimi: Do I want you to try?

[9:42] Tommy: I'll move my mom's car.

[9:44] Jimi: That's amazing. I don't think I've ever made you do like English.

[9:49] Tommy: I like that. There's something deeply satisfying about that.

[9:53] Jimi: But yes, I'm in my mom's car, Vrim Vroom. Get out of my car.

[9:58] Tommy: TikTok could never.

[10:00] Jimi: TikTok could never. Honestly. I've watched so much fighting over it doesn't matter. Anyway.

[10:06] Tommy: So the movie. I mean a lot of people have seen this movie.

[10:08] Jimi: A lot of people have seen this movie.

[10:12] Tommy: It's a Christmas classic. I do wonder, and I was discussing this with my boyfriend, if I do have a bit of a spoiler on this, because it is super popular in American schools around holiday time.

[10:22] Jimi: As a pretty inoffensive holiday movie you can put on because grades are due and you want to do don't want to do one more test the last day of classes.

[10:29] Tommy: Um, also it's not dated.

[10:33] Jimi: I mean it's not Miracle on 34th Street.

[10:33] Tommy: It's not Miracle on 34th Street. It's also super Christmas and not very religious.

[10:40] Jimi: It's not like Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, which kind of eases some of that, I think, for teachers.

[10:44] Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[10:45] Jimi: Um, great rhyme in there. Jesus, Jesus kind of eases. Like there's write that down.

[10:51] Tommy: Write it down.

[10:51] Jimi: Here I go. Writing it down. Um, but um, yeah, I feel like this movie is now it's not like the amount of people who I know say this is their Christmas movie, it's Elf.

[11:02] Tommy: Absolutely Christmas classic.

[11:04] Jimi: Um, and it's a, I mean, do you like the movie a lot?

[11:07] Tommy: Oh god, I love it, yeah.

[11:08] Jimi: I absolutely love it.

[11:09] Tommy: It's great.

[11:09] Jimi: Because it, like you say, it's everything we just listed. It's just easy, funny, yep, inoffensive, and you know, very heartwarming.

[11:17] Tommy: Yep, wholesome and you know, easy done, and even like even in comparison to some of the other more modern, less traditional Christmas movies, like you mentioned Home Alone earlier.

[11:27] Jimi: Like I would, you know, I rewatched Home Alone this season, and there's some stuff in there that's like I don't know if we want to teach ten-year-old kids about blowtorches and hurting people, like exactly yeah, because I feel like we're less the kids are less scrappy nowadays, aren't they?

[11:43] Tommy: Right. You know, I think they were doing that in the nineties.

[11:46] Jimi: Yeah, everyone was uh Bob Hoskins had not Bob Hoskins. Uh, um oh, why did you do that?

[11:53] Tommy: I know.

[11:53] Jimi: Joe Pesci's head on fire.

[11:57] Tommy: But this is, and you know, and perhaps we'll talk about it later. Elf is trying to capture some of that feeling of the Christmas movie too.

[12:04] Jimi: Like it is a satire of itself almost in a way.

[12:09] Tommy: Um, absolutely it, you know, I mean, it ticks all the boxes in that in the logic.

[12:14] Jimi: Um, to the point where they even have a closometer.

[12:18] Tommy: A claw clauseometer.

[12:18] Jimi: Clasometer.

[12:22] Tommy: Um, but the musical, which is what we're here to talk about today, um, is a little bit different.

[12:29] Jimi: Yeah, in here and there. I think for musical purposes, it's different.

[12:34] Tommy: So the movie is narrated by Buddy's dad.

[12:38] Jimi: Um, or Buddy's fake elf dad.

[12:40] Tommy: Yeah, it's Papa Elf.

[12:41] Jimi: Papa Elf, played by, well, now I have Bob Hoskins in my head.

[12:46] Tommy: Is that who it is?

[12:46] Jimi: It's definitely not Bob Hoskins. I actually can't remember this guy's name, Peter's quite famous.

[12:50] Tommy: Uh hold on. He also plays in um Legally Blonde 2, Red, White and Blonde. He plays the doorman of like the House of Congress or whatever the place that she works in.

[13:04] Jimi: That's that certainly helps.

[13:05] Tommy: Bob Newhart.

[13:06] Jimi: I was not far off.

[13:06] Tommy: Um, Bob Newhart.

[13:09] Jimi: But yes, so Bob Newhart narrates in the movie, Santa narrates in the musical.

[13:14] Tommy: Um, they spend more time in New York generally in the musical.

[13:19] Jimi: I think for the sake of like the amount of time we spend on the North Pole is vastly abbreviated.

[13:19] Tommy: Yeah.

[13:25] Jimi: So that they can be more economical with their sets.

[13:29] Tommy: Exactly. Exactly.

[13:30] Jimi: Um, and kind of just get on with the action.

[13:33] Tommy: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[13:35] Jimi: Um, there is a whole nother, uh, we had to restart act two with something. So there is one of my favorite songs in the show, um, a whole chorus of Santa's singing.

[13:45] Tommy: Absolutely my favorite song in the show. I love that song.

[13:47] Jimi: It's just delightful. Um, but in terms I would say like in terms of the characters and in terms of you know, uh, the kind of big key moments in the film, everything's represented.

[13:47] Tommy: Yeah.

[14:02] Jimi: Besides, um, uh, we just can't remember any actors' names at all today. Uh, the author, what's his name?

[14:10] Tommy: Oh, um, yep. Game of Thrones.

[14:10] Jimi: Yep.

[14:14] Tommy: Peter Dinklage's character.

[14:14] Jimi: Peter Dinklage, yeah.

[14:14] Tommy: Besides Peter Dinklage's character.

[14:18] Jimi: Yeah, which is kind of taken up instead by the boss whose name is like Greenwich or something.

[14:18] Tommy: Greenway.

[14:23] Jimi: Yeah, Greenway. Like kind of fills in and is the, you know, the antagonist. Played by usually the actor who plays Santa, which is a fun turn.

[14:31] Tommy: Um, no, so weirdly, not usually really just a just a UK thing.

[14:31] Jimi: Alright.

[14:36] Tommy: For some reason, we just like that doubling in the UK.

[14:39] Jimi: I like that doubling. That's an artistic thing. That's like some Captain Hook and Papa Darling stuff.

[14:45] Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

[14:47] Jimi: Yeah, Miss Gulch and the Wicked Witch of the West.

[14:50] Tommy: Yeah, like that's fun. Um, anyway.

[14:55] Jimi: Yeah, but uh yeah, well done the UK. You know, um but no, in terms of yeah, in terms of that, the only thing that I would say that is significantly different is the ending. Um because obviously it's quite hard to do, you know, a horse chase versus sleigh. Um and so to me, the ending of the musical isn't great. We they're they do kind of shift if we're talking like a traditional climactic arc, they do kind of shift where that peak is in the musical. Whereas in the movie, it is certainly the horse race and the sleigh flying and like I do believe in fairies. Whereas I would argue in the musical, it is much more shifted towards that's the story of Buddy the Elf. Um like and it does it is interesting because it does kind of shift it to be I do find that plots of musicals in these kind of adaptations do get tighter around the characters that are there.

[15:52] Tommy: Uh huh.

[15:53] Jimi: And we do spend a lot more time with like mom and the kid and dad than in the movie. Um which gives them a a uh more granular character arc and a much more interesting turn at the end when they do all become united as a family, which becomes a cipher and a metaphor for what the movie is, where it's like everyone believes in Christmas, uh-huh. Um, which is harder to do with a chorus of 25 or whatever.

[16:20] Tommy: Right.

[16:20] Jimi: But there is a bit of in the the book of the musical, there is a bit of that like Christmas isn't about X, it's about Fama, it's about eating spaghetti. You know, as it's like that kind of thing, which I didn't really buy. I w you know that isn't necessarily what Christmas is about. It's like eating leftover spaghetti. I would never say that. But um the yeah, the the just move away from the you know, I believe in Father Christmas to Christmas is what you make it, and we all have Christmas in our hearts. Like that kind of that kind of and it but I just think I just don't think it lands as as well. But like you see, I think it is it's the moving of the clay max. You're just in the the d the denimal at that point, right? And it does like that shifts a lot of the like characterizations of like the like the dad is a little softer in the musical than he is in the movie.

[17:12] Tommy: Um and it does, you know, this show really struggles, I think, with the converting a three-act movie into a two-act musical, right? Because a lot of the movie is in act two, um, which makes act one man, act one drags.

[17:28] Jimi: Yeah. It really does like I get it, and they're trying. What is interesting to me, this movie adaptation doesn't quite seem to fall into the problems that I see something like Mean Girls fall into, or like we know there's gonna be fan service, so we must write the like Santa I Know Him song.

[17:47] Tommy: Right.

[17:48] Jimi: And actually, this is I'm so glad you brought that up because that is something I really want to talk about and commend. Yeah, I there's there's none of that. Like, I know the film pretty well, but there was no moments where I was like rolling my eyes because like I've just shoehorned that in. One, I think the two big choices, one was probably a hand force. Um, like they probably never even tried to try and get the rights to baby it's cold outside. Um of the songs in the film. But yeah, the other big choice that was an intentional choice, is they didn't turn um I'm singing, I'm wherever I am, and I'm singing into a fully fledged musical theater song.

[18:29] Jimi: Yeah, they let it just live as funny as it is in the movie, and it still comes back a little bit, but it's not like and here's a kick line ta-da-da-da. Right? Right. And like that, that is canny, and that was a really good it lets those jokes live for what they are without you know beating the dead horse.

[18:48] Tommy: That's exactly it, because and like I again I think that's just kind of the issue I had with something to Shrek was that it like the jokes were just gags, like they're just one line gags that were iconic.

[18:58] Jimi: Right.

[18:59] Tommy: They didn't need to be extrapolated so much where they just it's just like I'm over it. When I think the thing that it overlooks is like, you know, Santa I know him, or like take a take an episode uh uh an example from Shrek, like not my gumdrop buttons, right?

[19:15] Jimi: Yeah, is funny and repeatable because it has gained a life outside of the media it's from. Like, not my gumdrop buttons is as funny as half of the other lines in the original Shrek movie, but for whatever reason, that entered the zeitgeist. And the same with like Santa, I know, I know him, right?

[19:34] Tommy: Yeah.

[19:34] Jimi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you then try to turn that knob up to eleven, you're reacting to the reaction people have had to that line and are overlooking its purpose in the story completely. It's like an easy adaptation trap to fall into, um, but it's it's uh dangerous and terrible.

[19:53] Tommy: Totally it just it just doesn't work.

[19:54] Jimi: It absolutely doesn't work. And like it's interesting to say about maybe it's cold outside, because actually, I think if that was the duet, yeah, it would not be nearly as good as sing a Christmas song.

[20:07] Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

[20:08] Jimi: Which I think is a lovely, lovely duet.

[20:11] Tommy: Yeah.

[20:12] Jimi: Um it's really nice, really sincere, and uh helps boost the both of both of those characters really.

[20:21] Tommy: Yeah.

[20:21] Jimi: Whereas if it was just maybe it's cold outside, right? What's that doing?

[20:25] Tommy: Yeah.

[20:26] Jimi: If then and they'd have to try real hard to kind of shoehorn the already built-in plot of that song into like it wouldn't work. Like how well, how could he get her singing that randomly in public? Right, like either we're like going one for one with the movie and she's showering, which I don't think is gonna play well on stage, or she's invited him over and like we play more into the like he doesn't understand human stuff and like you know, that's that's the joke, and neither of those work, and we don't have enough time.

[21:00] Tommy: Um, you know, but so the other question I had for you uh huh-huh. Um, because like watching this, so this is like an ABC plot show, right? We've got maybe vaguely defined, um Buddy, dad, and family as a plot point, right? And like the family's interpersonal, like dad's always working. We've got um uh the dad and his book company subplot.

[21:28] Jimi: And then we've got Buddy's love story.

[21:31] Tommy: Yeah.

[21:32] Jimi: Buddy's love story is, I would wager, the least important one, plot wise.

[21:40] Tommy: Yeah.

[21:41] Jimi: Perhaps the only reason what's her name? Um Jovi.

[21:44] Tommy: Jovi.

[21:45] Jimi: Um becomes important to resolve everything at the end is she's the one who starts singing live on television.

[21:53] Tommy: Right.

[21:53] Jimi: Because, you know, Buddy's convinced her of everything. Uh huh. That moment could easily be fulfilled by mom, dad, the kid, all of them. The secretary.

[22:02] Tommy: Yeah, any of them could make that moment just as heartfelt.

[22:06] Jimi: And I I I put to you as a loaded question, why do we need the love story?

[22:15] Tommy: Because it's a Christmas musical.

[22:17] Jimi: Yeah. Fair. You know what I mean? And just imagine the world without a love story in a musical. And I'm saying this deeply laden with.

[22:27] Tommy: What if Buddy took the kid ice skating on a nice day out instead of being, you know, my big brother. Like it's just and you know.

[22:36] Jimi: What about a lovely moment where he gets to know the stepmom and she gets to talk about how she's really upset at the fact that she feels like she's lost her husband and she can have a proper like viewpoint into her world to make her a bit more.

[22:48] Tommy: Absolutely.

[22:48] Jimi: And and I get we're outside of the realm of existence because they need to replicate the movie, and Warner Brothers will not be pleased if there's not a Zoe De Chanel character in this thing.

[22:56] Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[22:57] Jimi: But, you know, I I would I would put two authors out there like must like I would say even our understanding of the question do you need a love story is also already loaded because this movie is a love story more so between the family than a romantic love story.

[23:17] Tommy: And like you could axe that romantic love story and not lose too much.

[23:23] Jimi: I don't I I really don't think so yeah because like even obviously at the end when they have a child and spring and you'd miss you'd miss Never Fall in Love with an Elf, which is a song I do enjoy.

[23:33] Tommy: Um Yeah but also you know you could have a being Mrs Banks moment with the mum.

[23:39] Jimi: Yeah.

[23:40] Tommy: Yeah.

[23:40] Jimi: Which is all equally important.

[23:42] Tommy: Yeah.

[23:42] Jimi: Rather than just another I'm jilted well and there there's such I mean it's the same way in the movie. It's such a like they have no reason to be in love.

[23:53] Tommy: You know it is No, it doesn't make sense.

[23:55] Jimi: As rushed as any romance in a musical. Not not to the author's fault. Um that I would say it's more an indictment of like American standard writing.

[24:05] Tommy: I admittedly.

[24:07] Jimi: Well what I would say is I actually think I pref I think it makes more sense in the musical than it does in the movie.

[24:15] Tommy: Okay, how so?

[24:17] Jimi: Because I like I like the difference in the character. I like that they've done something different with Jovi.

[24:22] Tommy: Yeah.

[24:22] Jimi: And that she's a bit more of like a bitter New Yorker.

[24:25] Tommy: Yes.

[24:25] Jimi: You know I mean like jaded as everyone else has been by the city and you know the way of everything.

[24:31] Tommy: Yeah.

[24:32] Jimi: Um rather than the kind of Zoe De Chanel and quirky.

[24:36] Tommy: Right.

[24:36] Jimi: You know? Um because I think they try to do a bit of that jaded New Yorker with Zoe De Chanel but she's too wide eyed right to go that hard line but actually I think in the musical you know when they have that scene um although I think in the production that we watched it wasn't hugely well acted fair but I've seen it better acted when it is just she's not bursting into tears and you know solving like I think if that's directed well she's just like great another guy who you know I mean and because it it's nice that he's kind of offering her this like dream like this idea of like oh it could be this other world that I've completely disregarded.

[25:20] Tommy: Yeah um I thought that that made nice whereas like I think Zoe De Chanel probably would totally buy it.

[25:26] Jimi: Right.

[25:26] Tommy: I don't think she'd question it.

[25:28] Jimi: I think yeah cool.

[25:29] Tommy: Yeah you're you're a sad to what I guess I would add add to this line of questioning as well the whole the way the romance happens in the musical does like when I picture uh Will Farrell's elf yeah very intentionally it is a like cruise control one note one speed character Buddy is and like this is the joke and it's hilarious.

[25:56] Jimi: Like Buddy is a character with a set flow chart of like in and out processing his environment and you give him A and B will come out and it will always be some misunderstanding of you know human existence.

[26:08] Tommy: Um phrased in a threes company esque way to make you question what he's talking about.

[26:12] Jimi: And that's the comedy of the movie in the musical, there are brief moments, especially in uh like that moment outside Tavern on the green Yeah where Buddy kind of he has he has some monologue about like this makes me you know painfully sad or something like that.

[26:31] Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

[26:32] Jimi: And it doesn't I don't I don't like it. It doesn't make sense.

[26:35] Tommy: It does make sense.

[26:37] Jimi: Like Buddy being sad would have so much more implication.

[26:41] Tommy: Yeah.

[26:42] Jimi: Do you know what I mean? Like but like in the movie when he's sad, he's about to jump off a freaking bridge.

[26:47] Tommy: Right.

[26:47] Jimi: Do you know what I mean? Whereas in the musical, he's just kind of accepted it.

[26:51] Tommy: Right.

[26:52] Jimi: And he's kind of a dick about it.

[26:53] Tommy: Yeah.

[26:54] Jimi: He is quite inside. Like just being like, that is sad. But you know what? It's also nice.

[26:58] Tommy: Like, that's not actually.

[27:00] Jimi: And it's like and it it's a Christmas show, and we gotta we gotta be done with this plot so we can get another spot. Like, I get it.

[27:05] Tommy: Right.

[27:07] Jimi: All the more reason to just kinda nick's the love story.

[27:10] Tommy: Absolutely.

[27:11] Jimi: Yeah, I'm in complete agreement with you. I don't think I uh it's not that isn't why I'm like, oh I love this show because of this beautiful love story.

[27:20] Tommy: It's not a beautiful love story, it barely happened.

[27:22] Jimi: Right. Um I am much more interested in seeing the relationship between that family.

[27:26] Tommy: Yeah.

[27:27] Jimi: Um and again, like even the differences there, because I actually like the differences in the dad character.

[27:32] Tommy: Yeah.

[27:33] Jimi: But being less of an ass.

[27:34] Tommy: Yeah, sure.

[27:35] Jimi: You know, I mean he is just he is a workaholic.

[27:37] Tommy: Yeah.

[27:38] Jimi: And it's uh I like jagged little pill vibes here, right? Where it's you know, he still definitely cares about his family.

[27:45] Tommy: Yeah.

[27:46] Jimi: Um he just doesn't have time for them.

[27:49] Tommy: Um, and the implications of that, and you you kind of really buy him quitting much more than I think you'd do in the film, because I don't think he would have quit the film.

[28:01] Tommy: I think he would have quit in the film.

[28:02] Jimi: Yeah, I was a bit like in the film, you're like, why would you do that? Whereas in in the musical, fully, you can tell he's exasperated in his job.

[28:10] Tommy: Right.

[28:11] Jimi: He knows he's doing the wrong thing by not spending time with his son.

[28:15] Tommy: Yeah.

[28:15] Jimi: Uh and it's less about Buddy.

[28:18] Tommy: Yeah.

[28:18] Jimi: And it is nice, like in the movie, Buddy is the catalyst to like bring this family together. And it's still very much centered around Buddy, but like Buddy doesn't change from A to B.

[28:29] Tommy: Um the musical ends up doing a much better job of pulling everyone into one unit of story.

[28:41] Jimi: Yeah, exactly. The only thing I think I would have changed in terms of that storytelling and that beat, um, would be to not have mother and son be converted at the same time.

[28:54] Tommy: Sure.

[28:54] Jimi: Yeah. I think it should have gone son first, then mother, then father.

[29:00] Tommy: And I think actually you've made a really good point. You take Jovi out and put pop that mom in there, yeah.

[29:06] Jimi: Pop the mum. Whoever it needs to be at the moment, first do it with the son, then do it with the mom.

[29:11] Tommy: Right, exactly. It's kind of like Mary Poppins. Do you know what I mean? Like it's that kind of thing of he hops in and he changes their lives and this time he stays around.

[29:18] Tommy: But like that, because that was the only bit I was like, I just feel like we're rushing through it.

[29:23] Jimi: Right.

[29:23] Tommy: Well, and was when both.

[29:25] Jimi: So much of the dragginess in Act One is Jovi and Buddy's like meet cute and stuff.

[29:30] Tommy: Um like ringing the bells and going ice skating and all this stuff, which is beautiful and fun, but like, eh, you know, is wasted.

[29:39] Jimi: I would exactly, yeah.

[29:41] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[29:41] Jimi: And then that's the thing is like having their you know, stand-up moment where it g it takes a dip.

[29:49] Tommy: You're just doing it because you need to do it.

[29:51] Jimi: Right.

[29:51] Tommy: Because they can't just be in love and just have a nice relationship.

[29:53] Jimi: Right.

[29:54] Tommy: Exactly.

[29:55] Jimi: You know, we need some conflict.

[29:57] Tommy: Right.

[29:57] Jimi: Because you've now set this story up.

[29:59] Tommy: Which makes sense narratively.

[30:00] Jimi: I I I understand that.

[30:03] Tommy: And but it's clunky.

[30:05] Jimi: That's the thing is it's clunky because you don't need it.

[30:08] Tommy: Right.

[30:08] Jimi: As we've just kind of established it.

[30:10] Tommy: Don't need to be there.

[30:11] Jimi: Yeah.

[30:12] Tommy: I will say the other the other thing that does bother me about this show.

[30:16] Jimi: Um is so this is a Casey Nicholaw directed and choreographed production.

[30:22] Tommy: Yes.

[30:23] Jimi: Um let me read to you as Jimmy and I did earlier Casey Nicholaw's IMDB if you need a refresher.

[30:29] Tommy: Um recent stuff mostly.

[30:31] Jimi: The prom, Mean Girls, Tuck Everlasting, Something Rotten, Aladdin, Elf, The Book of Mormon, Elf, uh, to be or not to be, The Drowsy Chaperone, Spamalot, Thoroughly Modern Millie, Seussical, on and on and on and on.

[30:44] Tommy: Yeah.

[30:45] Jimi: Um Prolific Director, and like don't get me wrong, has directed some stuff I adore.

[30:48] Tommy: Absolutely.

[30:49] Jimi: Like an incredible director, I'd say.

[30:51] Tommy: And it all kind of feels the same from a directoral choreographical perspective.

[31:00] Jimi: Yeah.

[31:00] Tommy: And I'm worried that like Jimmy and I were talking off pod, The Drowsy Chaperone kind of sticks out to us amongst that list because you wouldn't you wouldn't put it in the same boat.

[31:13] Jimi: And it feels really nice.

[31:15] Tommy: But I think the reason for that is because The Drowsy Chaperone is a send-up of what we know is musical theater.

[31:24] Jimi: And Casey Nicholaw has for what it's worth, a real understanding of whatever this genre of can of a mi of like American musical theater.

[31:36] Tommy: Right.

[31:37] Jimi: And a thing I'm nervous about is like Something Rotten and Mean Girls should have entirely different choreographic languages.

[31:49] Tommy: Yes.

[31:49] Jimi: Uh-huh.

[31:50] Tommy: Right?

[31:51] Jimi: Um, they don't.

[31:54] Tommy: You know.

[31:54] Jimi: No.

[31:55] Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

[31:56] Jimi: The prom and Mean Girls.

[31:57] Tommy: They're the prom, exactly.

[31:58] Jimi: The prom and Mean Girls, which are much more closer to each other in setting and content, should still have different, you know, directoral languages, and they don't.

[32:09] Tommy: And that makes me sad.

[32:11] Jimi: You know, it makes me worried that like we've talked about this at end, uh, or to no end, how like when you're in an art form like ours with so few artists practicing in it, the particular styles and nuances of those artists kind of become the art form.

[32:28] Tommy: Like, how much of musical theater these days is just Fosse, right?

[32:33] Jimi: And we don't even know it.

[32:35] Tommy: Yeah.

[32:35] Jimi: Because that's the language that was put into it and then got imitated and replicated.

[32:40] Tommy: And you know, I don't like that that's happened with Fosse.

[32:44] Jimi: I'm sad that it's gonna happen with Casey Nicholaw.

[32:46] Tommy: Um I know, but then but you wonder because I think even so with someone like Fosse, right?

[32:54] Jimi: He worked he had a style.

[32:57] Tommy: Sure.

[32:57] Jimi: Sure, like to the point where it became a qu like a literal choreographic style, whereas Casey Nicholaw is working strictly in the realm of jazz, I mean musical music jazz.

[33:09] Tommy: Yeah, sure.

[33:10] Jimi: Um whereas Bob Fosse took it to another level to brought in ballet.

[33:16] Tommy: Um and it was identifiable, but it was still formed in a conceit.

[33:20] Jimi: Right.

[33:20] Tommy: Like if you look at something like the frug from Sweet Charity, right, compared to uh the hot honey rag.

[33:20] Jimi: Yeah.

[33:20] Tommy: Totally different.

[33:20] Jimi: The hot honey rag is still steeped in cabaret, 1930s, like it feels like that, whereas the frug feels later.

[33:41] Tommy: Yeah, do you know what I mean?

[33:42] Jimi: It just fairly feels a bit more sexy.

[33:44] Tommy: A totally and if you and to counter that, I would wager if you pulled dance breaks from Nicholaw Productions out of costume without music and put them next to each other.

[33:55] Jimi: Yeah, it would be nigh impossible to tell the difference between a dan a Mean Girls dance break and a Something Rotten dance break.

[34:01] Tommy: Exactly, exactly.

[34:03] Jimi: Um and I think, yeah, the one the thing to worry about, if we're ever gonna have a worry, is that that's the thing that gets emulated.

[34:11] Tommy: Yes, and it becomes the staple.

[34:13] Jimi: Yes, and that's yes, yes.

[34:16] Tommy: Because it was like I was saying about I was like, oh, did he also direct Shrek?

[34:20] Jimi: Right.

[34:21] Tommy: Because Shrek feels like it's directed by the same director as Something Rotten.

[34:26] Jimi: Yeah.

[34:26] Tommy: Do you know I mean they feel right like the same Spamalot, do you know what I mean?

[34:30] Jimi: And they're all signed up in movies, and they're all you know, I mean they all have that kind of thing.

[34:33] Tommy: And you yeah, you're right about it being a language, and it should have a different identity, like just and just like everything else you do on stage, and maybe you do decide, like I would say, for example, The Prom and something like The Drowsy Chaperone, there's a there's there's a flavor profile there that's similar.

[34:54] Jimi: Um actors uh bathing in their own stardom in a way that is funny to the audience, right?

[35:02] Tommy: And perhaps that flavor informs similar directing and choreography choices.

[35:08] Jimi: Yeah.

[35:08] Tommy: Great, but I don't think that's what's happening because Aladdin looks like that too, and like I don't think the choice is in.

[35:17] Jimi: That's Elf.

[35:18] Tommy: Right.

[35:18] Jimi: And like Elf is this Christmas New York fantasy thing, and Aladdin is set in a you know fictionalized fantasy Middle East.

[35:26] Tommy: Like how wildly different are those two shows.

[35:30] Jimi: Precise.

[35:31] Tommy: Back to back, they look kind of the same.

[35:33] Jimi: It is a shame.

[35:34] Tommy: But it's weird because and I I always keep having to go back to Drowsy because Drowsy's so good, and Drowsy is extremely well directed.

[35:41] Jimi: Like it's it's stunning.

[35:42] Tommy: And I think again, choreographic language, like cold feet, you know, I mean, is great, and it doesn't feel like it pops you can pop cold feet into it, like don't get me wrong.

[35:54] Jimi: There are great funny individual choreographic moments in Elf.

[35:59] Tommy: They're clever, they're funny, they like take up a moment in a way that's interesting and useful.

[36:05] Jimi: Yeah.

[36:06] Tommy: And like, I don't also, you know, don't don't misconstrue me as turning the knob too high on criticizing uh Casey Nicholaw.

[36:13] Jimi: No, it's still good.

[36:14] Tommy: He's done great work, but it becomes so samey that it blends together.

[36:22] Jimi: And you know, I wanna I like what I want to say is like, Casey, branch out, try something new.

[36:26] Tommy: Well, that's and but you because of Drowsy, you know can he's extremely capable of it.

[36:31] Jimi: Right.

[36:32] Tommy: Like I think Drowsy's quite art like high artistic.

[36:35] Jimi: Yeah.

[36:35] Tommy: But um but I think he's hired because they know he does good stuff and they're like, well, you know, Aladdin.

[36:40] Jimi: We want that.

[36:41] Tommy: Right, do more of that.

[36:42] Jimi: Will you do that?

[36:42] Tommy: Just do like what you did in the thing.

[36:44] Jimi: In the same way that Andy Blankenbuehler from Hamilton gets, you know, hired to do Hamilton again, yeah.

[36:51] Tommy: Well, that's it.

[36:51] Jimi: And just in the same way, like because his choreography for the Cats revival, yeah.

[36:56] Tommy: Um you can draw the lines back to the Heights, you know.

[37:00] Jimi: I mean, you can see you can see it.

[37:02] Tommy: Um no doubt he will become an extremely popular choreographer.

[37:06] Jimi: It is it gonna be the same kind of thing.

[37:08] Tommy: Man, it's such an existential crisis, right?

[37:11] Jimi: Um like art for hire.

[37:14] Tommy: Um because like let's simplify it.

[37:18] Jimi: You paint houses.

[37:22] Tommy: You're and like, oh, I saw that house you painted, I want you to paint my house because I want it to look like that house.

[37:28] Jimi: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[37:29] Tommy: Do it.

[37:30] Jimi: Here's some money.

[37:31] Tommy: Um, but what if you want to try something different that time?

[37:35] Jimi: Right.

[37:35] Tommy: And like I can see that being a huge, you know.

[37:40] Jimi: But then how I I guess that all could then comes down to individual creative teams, though, is like you know, a choreographer should still have uh sorry, a director choreographer should still have license over their own style.

[37:52] Jimi: Sure.

[37:52] Tommy: I mean the it's a it's an indictment of the artistic world today, is you can't even get there without you know a big corporation with a checkbook.

[38:01] Jimi: Um so if it comes from them where they're like, we want that lovely prom flavor, do you know what I mean?

[38:06] Tommy: Yeah, like we want that full on right Spamalot in your face, yeah, kick line, yeah.

[38:12] Jimi: Right to the front of the stage.

[38:13] Tommy: Yeah.

[38:14] Jimi: I just wish I you know, in my in my artistic utopia, Jimmy.

[38:19] Tommy: Yes, um, it would be more common to sign on uh a big corporate uh uh art contract with a rider that says you also get a pet project.

[38:32] Jimi: Um I will c I will direct and choreograph Elf for you, and you will sponsor an off-Broadway show that I will do.

[38:39] Tommy: Um or like something like that, and so that you can feed both.

[38:39] Jimi: So that you can you can have that experimental.

[38:45] Tommy: Do something that we know will make money, that we know will like keep people employed, keep the art form going, and you're fostering innovation, and you're still being a patron of the art and still allowing that experimentation to help.

[38:58] Jimi: Um you know, Warner Brothers, Disney could totally do this kind of stuff.

[39:03] Tommy: It would be great if they did.

[39:05] Jimi: Um Yeah, of course it would, but people.

[39:08] Tommy: Yeah, it's a shame.

[39:09] Jimi: They just should.

[39:10] Tommy: There's no reason they shouldn't, other than greed.

[39:12] Jimi: Um, take a ringingly like take a risk that something might be bad, that you might lose money on something.

[39:19] Tommy: For the risk that you might gain money on it.

[39:22] Jimi: Like exactly.

[39:23] Tommy: But you know, you're sat there wearing a great comment t-shirt.

[39:26] Jimi: Sometimes it really works.

[39:28] Tommy: Yeah, but the you know, we say that.

[39:30] Jimi: Uh like Disney should learn from Ars Nova.

[39:33] Tommy: Um set up a laboratory and run with it.

[39:38] Jimi: Exactly.

[39:38] Tommy: It's what the other palace over here should have been, and it's not.

[39:38] Jimi: Yeah.

[39:38] Tommy: It's not.

[39:44] Jimi: Maybe it will be still, but it'll not be.

[39:46] Tommy: Yeah.

[39:47] Jimi: It's just been let's give you a trading grade so you can go on the Wednesday and have fun.

[39:53] Tommy: What are we talking about?

[39:54] Jimi: Elf?

[39:56] Tommy: A Christmas story?

[39:59] Jimi: Something Christmasy.

[40:00] Tommy: Speaking of, you want to talk about Christmasy things?

[40:03] Jimi: Christmas!

[40:04] Tommy: Let's go.

[40:05] Jimi: Here, I'm gonna make the sound.

[40:09] Tommy: Sing a Christmas song.

[40:13] Jimi: It's like magic things go wrong.

[40:16] Tommy: You're gonna just spread some Christmas cheer by singing after Christmas song.

[40:30] Jimi: I'd be on singing for season more telling God to join.

[41:02] Tommy: Christmas.

[41:04] Jimi: It's a holiday.

[41:06] Tommy: It is indeed.

[41:07] Jimi: It has just been.

[41:07] Tommy: But it's also an institution.

[41:10] Jimi: It is.

[41:11] Tommy: Like, it is, you know, what would capitalism be without Christmas?

[41:16] Jimi: Well, that's the thing, right?

[41:18] Tommy: Um.

[41:19] Jimi: Like it is it is bonkers to me.

[41:21] Tommy: The the I wrote in here um similarities between Christmas stories in different places.

[41:28] Jimi: Yeah.

[41:29] Tommy: And the thing that struck my brain in thinking about that is they're at a Macy's in this.

[41:35] Jimi: Yeah.

[41:35] Tommy: And it's because Macy's has a North Pole.

[41:38] Jimi: But does Macy's have a North Pole because of Miracle on 34th Street?

[41:44] Tommy: How many times has Macy's been involved in Christmas style things?

[41:50] Jimi: Like, there's this like symbiotic relationship of like the fantasy of Santa Claus and American corporatism.

[41:59] Tommy: Well, Santa Claus is red because of a massive corporation.

[42:03] Jimi: McDonald's.

[42:05] Tommy: Coca-Cola.

[42:07] Jimi: Coca-Cola painted Santa Claus red in turn of the century, I think.

[42:14] Tommy: Fascinating.

[42:15] Jimi: And before that he was green.

[42:17] Tommy: But Coca-Cola is red.

[42:19] Jimi: So Santa Claus had to be red.

[42:21] Tommy: It's such but so then you get all this art about Christmas about like so uh A Christmas Story was playing concurrently on Broadway is the same time as Elf was playing.

[42:32] Jimi: Which I also have to say is nuts.

[42:34] Tommy: Is nuts.

[42:35] Jimi: Both m even more fascinating, produced by Warner Brothers Theatricals.

[42:41] Tommy: Right.

[42:41] Jimi: So they were running two Christmas shows on Broadway at the same time.

[42:45] Tommy: Um both centered around like man, the plot of Elf and the plot of A Christmas Story have a lot of beats, even beyond just like well, I don't know, like is it is it unfair to say even beyond just being a Christmas movie, or is that what makes them Christmas movies?

[43:01] Tommy: But like you know, a disbelief in mall Santa Clauses that is like up earth by the understanding that real Santa Clauses exist.

[43:12] Jimi: Um uh disgruntled elves.

[43:15] Tommy: A arguing family coming together on Christmas, like these are the themes that we must value on Christmas.

[43:24] Jimi: Exactly.

[43:25] Tommy: Miracle on Thirty-Fourth Street.

[43:27] Jimi: I mean, a family who doesn't believe in Santa, painted by Santa, uh meet Santa and start to believe it.

[43:34] Tommy: You know, I mean like it's it's this And again, it comes back to what we're saying earlier about belief and like that is what Christmas movie doesn't end with, oh well I believe in Christmas night.

[43:44] Jimi: Right.

[43:44] Tommy: It's like our version of a Greek myth.

[43:46] Jimi: Um and so separate from any of its initial trappings, but like but that gap is like erased from the history books.

[43:55] Tommy: Like you're supposed to believe that this has always been the myth of Santa Claus.

[44:00] Jimi: Um, but it has been interesting to like then watch this 'cause also it's kinda nice. Like I'm not mad at it. But it tickles your nostalgia because that is what you've grown up with. Do you know what I mean? Like you can't you c you ca we can't separate the two. We're literally not able to do that. Yeah. Um, living in Western society. Like we just don't have that ability. Um, so of course these things are like instantly relatable and lovely. Right. When it's no it's never snowed in years. Suddenly it starts to snow at the right moment. It's like, uh, it's why it's why the Hallmark channel will come out with you know fifty two Christmas movies every year. All at the same this same plot or some Dolly Parton has just done it. Like and like and it's like catnip. Um, and I think that's you know that's also what's fascinating about it is like you could probably put on Elf on Broadway around Christmas time every year for the you know forever.

[44:59] Tommy: Exactly. Reliably do okay.

[45:02] Jimi: It's kind of what we've done in the UK.

[45:04] Tommy: Yeah.

[45:05] Jimi: Like if I get perfect time to talk about it. Like so since 2015 Elf has just existed in the UK every Christmas.

[45:15] Tommy: That's wild.

[45:16] Jimi: You know what I mean? Like it's just it has become an institution like it has become a thing. I would love I wonder if we have any mo any mathematically oriented listeners. I want a graph of um I don't know, productions of Elf on the West End versus productions of um A Christmas Carol.

[45:39] Tommy: Oh god.

[45:40] Jimi: What? But like have they like crossed each other? Like as in was there a time when when because like everyone does A Christmas Carol on Christmas time in America, maybe I'm assuming something too.

[45:52] Tommy: Um because but you your fancy of Dickensian Christmas is different from our perspective.

[45:59] Jimi: Totally fair. And I mean my American is is omitting that in this moment. Right, because that's got that love in the same way that Home Alone, Elf, our institutions because it's New York at Christmas time.

[46:11] Tommy: That's so fascinating.

[46:12] Jimi: Is Christmas. Do you know what I mean? An interview. Rockefeller Center.

[46:15] Tommy: Yeah.

[46:16] Jimi: Oh my god, I can't like I remember the first time I went to New York was at Christmas time. And it was like I was the kid at Christmas. Like it was everything was so exciting because that is my New York. Like going to Rockefeller Center, seeing the trees, seeing everyone ice skating, I was like, this if it was in the summer, I wouldn't understand the city.

[46:34] Tommy: That's so fascinating.

[46:35] Jimi: I mean, I've even I've written in our notes here why is New York a Christmas town, which I agree with, and I don't know I mean between Rockefeller Center and the tree and like Chicago has a tree, like exactly.

[46:51] Tommy: But it's so funny because until this year, right, despite the fact that Home Alone 2 is called Home Alone 2, Lost in New York, uh huh, I could have sworn the first one was also set in New York.

[47:04] Jimi: And then I was actually I was like, oh it's Chicago.

[47:06] Tommy: That's interesting, right?

[47:09] Jimi: Um even like again, my perception of A Christmas Story, the most middle America film.

[47:15] Tommy: Yeah.

[47:15] Jimi: Right. I was like, obviously it'll be set in New York, um, because it's Christmas.

[47:20] Tommy: Right.

[47:21] Jimi: Like that that's what comes first. You know what I mean? Like it's always New York first.

[47:26] Tommy: And it does make sense because there's no, to my knowledge, California Christmas movie where they're sunning themselves in the palm trees and that feels like an ultimate Christmas film.

[47:37] Jimi: Right.

[47:37] Tommy: I mean it'll be the joke. It'll be you know Christmas in paradise or something.

[47:41] Jimi: Yeah.

[47:41] Tommy: Right, exactly.

[47:42] Jimi: Exactly. Because yeah um in Crazy Ex-Girlfriend they do a song about it. They do like a send up of like the stupidity of celebrating Christmas in California where it's super sunny.

[47:50] Tommy: Right.

[47:51] Jimi: Like and it doesn't feel like Christmas but you're still doing all of these cold winter. And there's and there is such a like the the the tropish mythical plot of you know grumpy people having their hearts melted around Christmas time.

[48:06] Tommy: Exactly.

[48:06] Jimi: Also seems like strangely New York. Right?

[48:10] Tommy: Yeah that's what's where the heart the land of grumpy people apparently the only place they exist.

[48:15] Jimi: Yeah like it is a you know the Elf the movie did it first and so successfully but like seems to have boiled down these tropes into like a pinpoint.

[48:25] Tommy: Yeah.

[48:26] Jimi: Um and then it's fascinating to see it in a musical but then to see that musical then like I wanted to ask and it is wild to me how successful this show is in the UK.

[48:36] Tommy: Yeah.

[48:36] Jimi: Because it feels so American.

[48:39] Tommy: Absolutely but yeah it's well it's weird we spoke about this in um A Christmas Story.

[48:44] Jimi: Yeah.

[48:45] Tommy: Do you know what I mean? About actually because A Christmas Story is authentically American.

[48:52] Jimi: Right because it is about the middle American family.

[48:55] Tommy: It is about that very cliched to you guys I know I was speaking as an American here.

[49:01] Jimi: Um cliched 2.4 children, like that is the American.

[49:08] Tommy: Whereas for us, you know, we're looking out at the States, the first thing that we see is the East Coast.

[49:13] Jimi: You know what I mean?

[49:13] Tommy: Like, we see New York.

[49:15] Jimi: Yeah.

[49:15] Tommy: Um it is just so because of Friends, because of all of these films, like it is like our first picture.

[49:27] Jimi: I would say that like New York and then maybe you move over and it's the Hollywood sign.

[49:31] Tommy: Yeah.

[49:32] Jimi: I guess all of that land in between is nothing.

[49:35] Tommy: I mean, I mean we don't we don't understand what that is.

[49:37] Jimi: Spoiler alert, most of it is nothing.

[49:39] Tommy: Well, correct, yeah, exactly.

[49:40] Jimi: You maybe take a slight pit stop at Las Vegas as you're approaching this course.

[49:44] Tommy: But like that's that's kind of all we have.

[49:47] Jimi: So I guess I think that's why. I don't know if I've ever been able to quite specifically articulate this question. Like, say you're watching Elf. Does it feel like it's it's it's um it's um helpful that you brought up Dickens, but does it feel like when I watch Charles Dickens and um you know when I watch A Muppet Christmas Carol and I'm like, oh that's England?

[50:13] Tommy: You know, like does it feel like that's not right America that's funny because I watch Muppets Christmas Carol and I think that's America.

[50:26] Jimi: Right.

[50:27] Tommy: It's a it's a set, yeah.

[50:28] Jimi: In the same way that a lot of people, you know, who live in Illinois or wherever, yeah, would be like, sure New York, but New York is as much of a theme park as Las Vegas is.

[50:38] Tommy: Right, exactly.

[50:39] Jimi: Yeah, like that's kind of the way I you know, I mean feel because like I'm trying to I'm trying to think of like other British Christmas films that are again.

[50:48] Tommy: Well, I mean that's the extent of my question too.

[50:51] Jimi: Is does Christmas feel like an American holiday to a UK centric person?

[50:57] Tommy: Obviously not.

[50:58] Jimi: No, but that is like the Americanism is a part of it.

[51:02] Tommy: You know, I mean Coca-Cola is a part of our Americ, you know, our holidays.

[51:07] Jimi: Like um there is a bit like that is a big Yeah.

[51:12] Tommy: In the same way that we've talked about like Halloween before, where you know, were you to celebrate it in the UK, I think I'm remembering this right, it would be a representation of the American holiday, as opposed to feeling like an ongoing tradition of you know, UKisms.

[51:29] Jimi: That's it. And like the you know, uh again with Halloween, we have our own traditions, and Victorian Christmas is such a prominent, like very capturable ideal.

[51:41] Tommy: Yeah, but we don't really buy into that anymore.

[51:46] Jimi: Fascinating. Because this musical is kind of the embodiment of the assumption of an American Christmas.

[51:53] Tommy: Yeah, totally.

[51:55] Jimi: Totally. Um I think yeah, it's it definitely it needs to be spoken about how successful it is in the UK. Um, so I really want to speak about this arena production.

[52:05] Tommy: Yes, I've only seen like ten seconds of it. Please tell me.

[52:08] Jimi: Right. So I've watched the full thing and it is on the internet. You can you can find it, it's really not hard to find. Um but I loved it.

[52:18] Tommy: Like the set the scene for me.

[52:21] Jimi: Like, are we in the ground? How many people are like, okay. We're in thrust. Think um, you know, a Miley Cyrus, a Beyoncé gig.

[52:31] Tommy: A hockey arena that they've turned into uh yeah.

[52:33] Jimi: We've got a bigger than a hockey arena.

[52:35] Tommy: We've we uh an American hockey arena.

[52:37] Jimi: We've got how bigger we talking?

[52:39] Tommy: Because I bet you it's bigger.

[52:41] Jimi: I mean between nine and fifteen thousand seats.

[52:45] Tommy: Okay, fair.

[52:46] Jimi: About yeah, okay. Really is how big yeah, we uh we have a ton of venues like this.

[52:50] Tommy: Um I guess Madison Square Garden.

[52:52] Jimi: Yeah, stuff like that. Madison Square Garden, picture that.

[52:55] Tommy: Okay, arena.

[52:56] Jimi: Yeah, we're big, right? All of our biggest venues in the UK would get it.

[53:00] Tommy: Um okay, sorry, I'm gonna interrupt you again.

[53:03] Jimi: Is it a venue that is normally used for sport that they have converted to, or are these all exclusively theatrical venues?

[53:11] Tommy: So there'd be music venues.

[53:13] Jimi: Fascinating.

[53:14] Tommy: That's different from us.

[53:16] Jimi: Most of these save Madison Square.

[53:18] Tommy: Well, even there, you know, they do like boxing and stuff.

[53:20] Jimi: Um like, you know, I I saw Disney on Ice at the United Center in Chicago.

[53:27] Tommy: Um, it's mostly a hockey rink.

[53:29] Jimi: Right, okay.

[53:31] Tommy: Like a lot of these places are like it's it can be, you know, a basketball court, but then sometimes Miley Cyrus plays there.

[53:39] Jimi: Let me just have a look and see, but I think for the most part it was um just music venues.

[53:47] Tommy: Music venues, but music in the UK is bigger than sport.

[53:55] Jimi: That's not true. But like we don't have as big sporting arenas because we've got football stadiums and there's too many football teams.

[54:02] Tommy: Got it, soccer teams, to for each of them to have a massive whereas like it's less like that in the States.

[54:10] Jimi: So yes, where you go, we've got Wembley, Wembley Arena, which is the biggest in the UK, the Hydro in Glasgow, yeah, is the second biggest in the UK.

[54:19] Tommy: Um I'm now just seeing reviews.

[54:23] Jimi: I'll come back to these in a minute.

[54:24] Tommy: I'm sorry.

[54:25] Jimi: Because they're not good.

[54:28] Tommy: Literally, I've yet to see anything more than one star.

[54:31] Jimi: Yes. Fascinating.

[54:32] Tommy: Okay, we'll get to them in a second.

[54:34] Jimi: Um, I nearly paid £1000 for our family of 14 to go to the show.

[54:39] Tommy: Um, go bowling.

[54:43] Jimi: Go, but yeah, exactly.

[54:45] Tommy: Go to a park.

[54:46] Jimi: Um, watch Rent the movie Elf.

[54:49] Tommy: Right.

[54:50] Jimi: They're from Wales.

[54:51] Tommy: Um says everything.

[54:54] Jimi: Um no, right. So the arena spectacular sorry, Elf a Christmas Spectacular is the the full title.

[55:02] Tommy: Um for the most part, it's the musical.

[55:06] Jimi: Sure.

[55:08] Tommy: Um, but there's a lot more to it.

[55:10] Jimi: Okay.

[55:11] Tommy: So, yeah.

[55:14] Jimi: We're in Thrust, we have like 60 foot LCD LED screens.

[55:20] Tommy: Uh huh.

[55:20] Jimi: You know what I mean? Projecting as you would a gig. Like this is a gig. This is you know the tech for a gig.

[55:26] Tommy: Um, and in the same way that around the thrust, you've got a lot of space before you've got the seating bank for artist protection, so you know you're not boss gets people nice to dance.

[55:37] Jimi: Um, a cast of over a hundred.

[55:40] Tommy: Oh my god.

[55:41] Jimi: Yep.

[55:42] Tommy: There's only like twelve characters in the sh in the show at best.

[55:46] Jimi: Yep.

[55:47] Tommy: Um, not in the Christmas spectacular.

[55:51] Jimi: So I've written down like a few things that were just a bit different. There's not even a chorus of like and that like what? And now a hundred office workers come out.

[56:01] Tommy: Right, exactly.

[56:02] Jimi: So they do do it quite well.

[56:08] Tommy: Right?

[56:09] Jimi: But uh you need to you need to be sitting in the world of pantomime.

[56:14] Tommy: Yeah.

[56:15] Jimi: I was gonna ask. Is this like pantomime?

[56:18] Tommy: That is the caveat for all it because it is. This is the epitome of the intersection of pantomime in musical theater.

[56:25] Jimi: Fascinating.

[56:26] Tommy: And I only think this would work in the UK.

[56:29] Jimi: Sure.

[56:30] Tommy: Because we have pantomime.

[56:32] Jimi: Well, you would be I'm I'm curious to know more about it.

[56:35] Tommy: There is we rarely talk about it on the show.

[56:38] Jimi: Um, but there is a spat of like Disney on Ice is one of them.

[56:42] Tommy: Like these kind like I saw as a child uh Pokemon the musical.

[56:48] Jimi: Um which is the wrong phrasing for it.

[56:51] Tommy: It was more at an arena with like screaming kids and like, hey everybody! I want you to catch up Pokemon!

[56:59] Jimi: Yeah.

[57:00] Tommy: Um and like they're uh a lot of them come from Disney, but not all of these like big spectacular events.

[57:08] Jimi: You know, I it would depend, I imagine, on how much it relies on like some of the the secret code of pantomime that I don't quite know yet.

[57:16] Tommy: This was imbued in it.

[57:17] Jimi: Okay.

[57:18] Tommy: Do you know I mean like actor improv.

[57:20] Jimi: Yeah.

[57:21] Tommy: Who's rife throughout the as uncomfortable in it as someone who's like going to Rocky Horror for the first time and they like don't know what to say when someone says like, oh no, she isn't.

[57:21] Jimi: Yeah, potentially.

[57:34] Tommy: You would be a bit like, what the hell is happening?

[57:39] Jimi: Yeah, I think you a hundred percent would.

[57:41] Tommy: Um, but there's musical stuff for you to anchor to.

[57:42] Jimi: Excellent.

[57:42] Tommy: You know?

[57:42] Jimi: Um, so the first big difference I saw um was uh kids from the audience, at least I think they were from the audience, they might have also just been just been like plants.

[57:55] Tommy: Kids.

[57:56] Jimi: Yeah, like actors. Um were on stage during the Santa scene in Macy's during the like the throne of lies.

[58:05] Tommy: Yes, okay, right?

[58:07] Jimi: Uh and they all scream and run off. And so in order for to allow what I think was those kids to get back to their seats, yeah, right, they then had a segment where they got the audience to help decorate a giant Christmas tree.

[58:28] Tommy: Where would where was the tree?

[58:30] Jimi: The tree was coming round this space between the end of the thrust and the audience.

[58:37] Jimi: And my initial reaction was a technical one. It was like, if this is time for the kids to get back to their seats, but if you're doing a thing where other people have to get out of their seats, then this is just uh that's stinky.

[58:47] Tommy: Okay.

[58:47] Jimi: It the Chris the tree came to the city. The tree coast. It was on a truck.

[58:51] Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[58:52] Jimi: And then the audience were get like a it was on a truck.

[58:56] Tommy: When you say truck, what do you mean?

[58:58] Jimi: Not like a garbage truck, as in like a stage truck.

[59:01] Tommy: Got it.

[59:01] Jimi: Do you call them trucks?

[59:02] Tommy: We would call them wagons.

[59:04] Jimi: I understand what you're talking about. Love that, yeah. But when you say truck, I picture like a Ford pickup truck.

[59:10] Tommy: No, no, um, a wagon.

[59:12] Jimi: Okay. Um I didn't know that wagon. Um, and so the audience were handed these big decorations, giant decorations, and they had to basically wrap them in the tree as the tree went past, basically.

[59:24] Tommy: Right.

[59:25] Jimi: Um if you were bored of that, or if you were up at the back and you couldn't help decorate the tree, right? Got some stuff going on in the stage for you as well. So um the interview character the interviewer character that's uh the in the film it's the like the news reporter.

[59:40] Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

[59:41] Jimi: For some reason it's a guy. We'll like we'll brush over that. It's a guy.

[59:44] Tommy: Yeah.

[59:44] Jimi: Um he is hosting this. Oh, the whole thing.

[59:49] Tommy: No, he's hosting this segment.

[59:51] Jimi: Okay. Yep. So he's up in a um scaffolding up the back there. They've got a camera on him.

[59:56] Tommy: Okay.

[59:57] Jimi: Set up with like news overlays. All looks very good, professional.

[1:00:00] Tommy: Sure.

[1:00:00] Jimi: And he is um improving away about we've got a giant tree coming around right now. You can slam your decorations out. We want this to be the most beautiful tree in all of New York. Right?

[1:00:13] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:00:14] Jimi: Um what? And if you're like I say, so if you're bored of that, we've also got um on the stage uh the character who is like the office junior, like one of the publisher guys, is trying to lift himself up in the air with balloons. Just for fun, just for entertainment. Just because you know, right?

[1:00:39] Tommy: Is the whole thing like this, or does this just happen once?

[1:00:44] Jimi: Like this happens occasionally. And it is it always the tree, or is it always like, and here's a new fun activity? That was one thing. That was the tree moment.

[1:00:51] Tommy: Um so that all happens and that finishes, okay?

[1:00:56] Jimi: And then we get back into the story. Um, and then before we know it, uh oh, that was the other thing. Okay, so this is where this is where it's pantomime. Okay. Because one of the things the news announcer said was, and we've got Alex Trelawney in the audience today, and he's turned 84 years old. Everybody give him a round of applause.

[1:01:22] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[1:01:23] Jimi: And that is a big pantomime thing, is going through the birthdays. So all of the birthday kids, if you've got a break, you let your stage manager know before you go in and you get a wee announcement when we do the birthday.

[1:01:34] Tommy: Oh my god.

[1:01:35] Jimi: So similar. Um and he was also improving his heart out. God love him. This is a baffling. Okay, can I vomit some thoughts I'm having right now on you?

[1:01:44] Tommy: I mean, I'm not even halfway.

[1:01:46] Jimi: Okay, tell me more. Right. I'll I'll just hit the highlights. I’ll just set the highlights. We also had a giant snowball fight.

[1:01:52] Tommy: When?

[1:01:52] Jimi: Um with two policemen. Uh that was before Was it related to the plot? Or were they just like hit a buzzer and alarm went off and No, it was it was again, it was like scene changed work.

[1:02:04] Tommy: Okay.

[1:02:04] Jimi: So in between these scenes. And these two policemen kind of kept coming out quite a lot. They were kind of clown characters.

[1:02:10] Tommy: Sure.

[1:02:11] Jimi: Um, New York policemen clowns.

[1:02:12] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:02:13] Jimi: Um, and they were like, don't throw snowballs at us. Whilst of other these people were handing out these big foam things. So that that was fun. And actually, it looked really funny.

[1:02:21] Tommy: It seems like a lot of fun, yeah.

[1:02:25] Jimi: Throw snowballs. Um then before we get to Rockefeller Center to do some ice skating.

[1:02:30] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[1:02:32] Jimi: Let's just have an aerial demonstration between two actors. Just for fun.

[1:02:36] Tommy: Do they even Well just do it?

[1:02:38] Jimi: So they just did a display to some music. I don't know where the music was from. Wasn't from Elf. Um, and so they just did a whole like three minute real routine. Like spinny rings and hair or like trapeze like swing back and forth, or like no, yeah, silks.

[1:02:55] Tommy: Silks, okay.

[1:02:56] Jimi: Silk work. Yeah, silk and also roller skates.

[1:02:59] Tommy: Oh, what a what a combination.

[1:03:01] Jimi: Did they make it about ice skating or were they just wearing the case?

[1:03:04] Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:03:04] Jimi: So it was in the in the set and they've got these beautiful really nice fountain lights that I actually don't know how they did. Fascinating. I don't think it was water, but it was out, you know, it was existed.

[1:03:15] Tommy: Okay.

[1:03:15] Jimi: Um and then in the roller skating scene, uh huh when they're skating, escaping skating, um, we've also just got actors just skating around the whole just for fun, so you can have a nice little intimate moment with an actor.

[1:03:28] Tommy: Absolutely.

[1:03:28] Jimi: And again, this was when I realized, oh, these are actors, because I was like, have they just told people to bring skates if they want, and we can just go skating? But no, they were just bringing it out, they were breaking that fourth wall, and I was like, fine.

[1:03:41] Tommy: Wow.

[1:03:41] Jimi: Um what else do we have? Gymnastic Santas. Uh literally at the opening of Act Two, a full gymnastics routine with horse boxes, rings, trampolines, and Santa Clauses.

[1:03:55] Tommy: Just dressed up as Santa.

[1:03:57] Jimi: Um The also had this is the bit I didn't like, but this is because. Oh, this was the bit you didn't like.

[1:04:04] Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:04:05] Jimi: This is becoming a big trend um in Panto as well, is the use of just like 3D characters.

[1:04:14] Tommy: Oh, like holograms.

[1:04:16] Jimi: Yeah. So in the Nobody Believes in Santa anymore, so they just had on the LED screens these like dancing Santas.

[1:04:27] Tommy: Huh.

[1:04:28] Jimi: Just images against a red background. Yeah. Not human. But like human size, like you're they kinda look like they might be human.

[1:04:36] Tommy: No, they were definitely like this was just like search for Santa.

[1:04:40] Jimi: Like Santa Santa clipart gif and then multiply times two pop that on Nikula. They also did the thing for the finale with some elves that were in a different costume to the elves in the show. And it was just three of them, and they were just kind of you know, dancing at Avatars. I didn't like that.

[1:04:57] Tommy: Um That was this Yeah, beyond the pale.

[1:05:02] Jimi: Yeah, that was Beyond the Pale. The snow globe moment. Yeah. When he gives her the snow globe, they just bring up a picture of a snow globe. Is there a real snow globe too?

[1:05:10] Tommy: Or they did have the real snow globe, okay, but I guess that was too close to zoom in on.

[1:05:15] Jimi: Ah. So just to tell you that it's a snow globe. Well, in case you're in like giant road triple Q.

[1:05:22] Tommy: Right.

[1:05:22] Jimi: A giant CGI image a CGI of a snow globe.

[1:05:30] Tommy: Whoa.

[1:05:32] Jimi: So that was the highlights, I guess. Um did you like thumbs up, thumbs down, did you enjoy it?

[1:05:39] Tommy: I would have had a fun night at that.

[1:05:42] Jimi: That's wild. I mean, I probably would have too. Okay, here, not in order are the thoughts that have come across my mind. First, and we can breeze right past this, but just the technical person in me is like, how on earth do you rehearse this? Um like that must be a monster.

[1:05:55] Tommy: Um like you're not touring with a hundred strong casts.

[1:06:03] Jimi: I know. So you're getting people in when you arrive at these cities. Locally, so you got like an hour before the show to be like, okay, then you're gonna roller skate and they'd be back here by the end of the yeah.

[1:06:11] Tommy: Exactly.

[1:06:12] Jimi: Like them that's wild, but we can breeze past that. Yeah. Um so then here are the other two thoughts I had kind of concurrently. The first was um when I was more of a child, and we're gonna talk about the death of the author in a second, um there was an exhibit that came through Chicago that was called something like the Harry Potter experience.

[1:06:32] Tommy: Mm-hmm.

[1:06:33] Jimi: Um and it was a an exhibit that toured bizarrely museums. Um and so was like adjacent to the Museum of Science and Industry, I think when I was a kid, um, which is a museum that I adored. And they set up a tent outside the museum to house the exhibit.

[1:06:53] Tommy: Okay.

[1:06:53] Jimi: And at its core it was mostly like costumes and props from the show. But they set it up to be like an experience and they made all these poor Chicago teenagers speak in their best British accent. And these are like museum docents. Like these are not act I mean, some of them might be actors as well, but not all of them, and they did not give them British accent training. Um be like, Welcome to the Harry Potter Experience Wingardium Leviosa and like a door would open and then you'd see like a mannequin with like Dumbledore's outfit on it.

[1:07:29] Tommy: Right.

[1:07:30] Jimi: Um, but the doors would open by magic. Um And so the first thought I had was like, when does the thing become so far away from the thing that it's not the thing anymore?

[1:07:41] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:07:42] Jimi: Like how much of that is Harry Potter at that point? And like they're trying so hard to make it Harry Potter, and I enjoyed it 'cause I like behind the scenes shit. Right. But it wasn't billed as like a look at the costumes from this movie. It was billed as like the Harry Potter experience.

[1:07:58] Tommy: Um and like so that was the first thought I had. When does you know, when is it when is an elf not an elf anymore?

[1:08:04] Jimi: Maybe it's when they push the Christmas tree around and show us the eighty-four year old in the audience.

[1:08:10] Tommy: Yeah, so uh i it's weird because it was still the like it was still the musical. Do you know what I mean sure and it wasn't just because oh they still sang the songs. Like when they did um uh what is the song uh that she sings when she gets stood up? Uh oh never fall in elf an elf, yeah.

[1:08:29] Tommy: Right.

[1:08:29] Jimi: Um so it's um Kim Marsh who did that.

[1:08:33] Tommy: Okay.

[1:08:33] Jimi: No, not Kim Marsh. I can't remember her name. Anyway, she's uh like a pop star, but has also done theatre stuff and actually is really, really good. Like she's a good actor.

[1:08:45] Tommy: Um and it was the best performance of it I've ever seen.

[1:08:50] Jimi: Okay. So then the other thought I'm having, and I think this is more fascinating to me. Other than this version of Elf, like, pantomimes are reenaction are are based on well-known plots, right?

[1:09:03] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:09:03] Jimi: And they're usually fairy tale sort of things, yeah?

[1:09:06] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:09:06] Jimi: Hansel and Gretel or Peter Pan or something like that. There is this, like, earmarking now of the story of Elf as being in the same Bailiwick as Hanzel and Gretel, right? Which is also fascinating. Like, here is the parable of Elf, which is weird because it's already like the movie's set up with that framing device, and now we're like 16 framing devices deep.

[1:09:39] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:09:41] Jimi: If Shrek was pop more popular with young kids, yeah, there would be a Shrek version of this. You know, I mean it's that kind of thing. Like it's just it's it's finding out what do they love in the same way you went to see Pokemon the Arena Experience. I'm now curious if there's ever been a Shrek on Ice.

[1:09:59] Tommy: Um I don't think it's big enough.

[1:10:01] Jimi: I bet you they have.

[1:10:03] Tommy: I bet you they have.

[1:10:03] Jimi: Yeah, here it is. I just googled it. Shrek on Ice, presented by Garden's Figure Skating Club.

[1:10:07] Tommy: This is a local one.

[1:10:08] Jimi: Um, I just don't think especially with the younger, younger, because the thing is is like there are three year olds who watch Elf and love it because he screams and you know there's lots of colours and elves.

[1:10:21] Tommy: Right.

[1:10:21] Jimi: Um and you could take your three year old to this and they would have they would have a the time of their life, I'm sure simulation, that whole thing, like, oh my god. Um so i that's I think it just has that broader appeal. Um because the thing is as well with with pantomimes they're all modern retellings of these classic tales.

[1:10:44] Tommy: Right.

[1:10:44] Jimi: I mean, everything is anachronistic.

[1:10:46] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:10:47] Jimi: Um so you recognize it, even if you're really young. Right. Because all the references they're making, things that they're wearing, dances that they're doing, or TikTok dances, or you know, all of these things that they know. Um the the story is literally just the framing device.

[1:11:04] Tommy: Yeah, right.

[1:11:05] Jimi: And it was the same thing here. That was just the thing to get you from A to B. It just happened that they could pull the music. It was just a very high quality framing device, yeah.

[1:11:17] Tommy: Because it's a proper book musical.

[1:11:18] Jimi: Right. And so they don't have to just like make it up. They can make exactly shoehorn this pop song in.

[1:11:24] Tommy: Not at all.

[1:11:25] Jimi: And so that was the thing that I think surprised me.

[1:11:28] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:11:29] Jimi: Right. Was because these arena spectaculars, when you're getting 15,000 people in.

[1:11:35] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:11:36] Jimi: Right, you need to have that pop song. You need to have that thing that everyone will know.

[1:11:41] Tommy: Right.

[1:11:41] Jimi: Right. Nobody would have known those songs.

[1:11:43] Tommy: Right, exactly.

[1:11:44] Jimi: Right. And it was interesting actually. So see when they did the Sing a Christmas song Reprise, um, before the and he's talking about like all you need to do is sing.

[1:11:54] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:11:54] Jimi: Right. They had this kind of awkward beat before they actually started the cue for a song.

[1:11:58] Tommy: Oh, it's when she's coming through the crowd.

[1:12:00] Jimi: That's what it was. Yeah. And like people in the audience were just starting to sing like, We wish you a Merry Christmas. Like Jingle, but I mean, because they thought that's what they had to do.

[1:12:10] Tommy: Right.

[1:12:10] Jimi: They didn't realize. But that's actually a cue for a song that's in the musical. And then the song started and it was fine. And they listened to it and they applauded and they were there for it.

[1:12:20] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:12:20] Jimi: And I think that's why I was like, I love this. That's because people are appreciating musical theatre. It was just an extremely ambitious production of it.

[1:12:33] Tommy: That is so bizarre to me.

[1:12:35] Jimi: It's just like if there was there was nothing in it that I was like, that's doesn't make sense like that wouldn't make sense.

[1:12:41] Tommy: Right, right.

[1:12:42] Jimi: Even uh well, maybe the decorate the Christmas trees.

[1:12:45] Tommy: Yeah, here's a big Christmas tree on wheels.

[1:12:47] Jimi: Right. Well take that, take that bit out. But the like policemen, the two New York cops, yeah, like again, a classic American trope that we all know and love as in Brits, as two clowns, like I just love that.

[1:13:00] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:13:00] Jimi: Um the like gymnastic stanzas, the aerial stuff, like it was just all very heightened stuff based in this world.

[1:13:09] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:13:09] Jimi: Um and I was a total fan of it. That's which I did not expect. I'm gonna have to look this up.

[1:13:15] Jimi: I am so intrigued.

[1:13:17] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:13:17] Jimi: If you just search, I think like listener, right now.

[1:13:23] Tommy: Exactly.

[1:13:23] Jimi: Go on this journey with me.

[1:13:25] Tommy: Oh, it was Kim Marsh, not Kim Wild.

[1:13:28] Jimi: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:13:29] Tommy: Um Syrup.

[1:13:31] Jimi: So tell you who didn't like it.

[1:13:32] Tommy: Oh.

[1:13:33] Jimi: Syrup.

[1:13:34] Tommy: A somewhat rewritten version of the film, which the kids didn't appreciate or understand.

[1:13:39] Jimi: Stale humour, slow dialogue, and generally a very poor and boring experience.

[1:13:45] Tommy: Kim Marsh giving her own daughter a special mention at the end was stomach churning.

[1:13:50] Jimi: Would not go back or recommend.

[1:13:53] Tommy: Wow, scathing.

[1:13:55] Jimi: Absolutely.

[1:13:56] Tommy: Awkward, terrible banter, aggressive and trying desperately to be funny.

[1:14:00] Jimi: Save yourself an evening and go buy the film on TV.

[1:14:04] Tommy: So this is do you know what I mean? Like, this is it.

[1:14:06] Jimi: This is all these people, I guess, who were like going in exp I don't know what were they expecting.

[1:14:14] Tommy: How did you do the film?

[1:14:15] Jimi: I mean, like when I when my film when my parents take me to Disney on ice, they're not like looking for high art.

[1:14:21] Tommy: They're looking for like here's a fun thing to do with a six-year-old.

[1:14:24] Jimi: Like maybe the ticket prices were too that's fair.

[1:14:31] Tommy: High.

[1:14:32] Jimi: Maybe that's what it was.

[1:14:33] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:14:33] Jimi: Um but like, for example, so I was very surprised by Kim Marsh's performance, especially.

[1:14:38] Tommy: She looked bored and miserable.

[1:14:40] Jimi: I don't think we realized that that was the character.

[1:14:43] Tommy: Do you know what I mean? Like she She did.

[1:14:48] Jimi: Uh but it's because her character is miserable.

[1:14:52] Tommy: Man, I wish we could do this more often, where you give reviews of reviews.

[1:14:56] Jimi: Yeah, exactly.

[1:14:57] Tommy: Just like, you're wrong.

[1:14:59] Jimi: You're wrong.

[1:15:00] Tommy: Then we had four women in front of us that wouldn't shut up.

[1:15:03] Jimi: I asked them to do it too quiet, but they wouldn't.

[1:15:05] Tommy: I really think there should be staff about keeping an eye and ear out for things like this.

[1:15:08] Jimi: It's a 15,000 seat of reading.

[1:15:11] Tommy: Don't they actively encourage you to like cheer and sing along?

[1:15:14] Jimi: Ex like there's no point.

[1:15:15] Tommy: And also, the sound systems, you could hear it from space.

[1:15:18] Jimi: I'm gonna funny.

[1:15:22] Tommy: I love these reviews.

[1:15:23] Jimi: Oh, there's someone.

[1:15:24] Tommy: Great family day D out.

[1:15:26] Jimi: That's well, this pales in comparison to the interesting production of Elf that I wanted to bring up.

[1:15:32] Tommy: Right.

[1:15:33] Jimi: The or I guess mine pales in comparison to the arena production.

[1:15:37] Tommy: Um, but the new National Theater in Japan did Elf this year.

[1:15:43] Jimi: Um and uh I also find this fascinating.

[1:15:47] Tommy: And I'm not I'm nearly not well versed enough in how Christmas is viewed in Japan.

[1:15:53] Jimi: Um other than kind of a vague understanding that it is very much an American holiday that has made its way into Japan.

[1:16:02] Tommy: Um The only thing that I think I know about it is that it's more of a time like it's a bit more like Valentine's Day, like Christmas is for you and your lover.

[1:16:14] Jimi: Okay.

[1:16:15] Tommy: As opposed to family, like it's uh I think a new year's is more about family.

[1:16:21] Jimi: Fascinating.

[1:16:21] Tommy: Well that's the only thing I think the the new National Theatre is a a huge theater, like this is a wildly you know popular and important theater in Tokyo.

[1:16:29] Jimi: Um and and they did elf.

[1:16:32] Tommy: Um and it is always interesting.

[1:16:33] Jimi: I've had a couple tangential conversations with people on the internet about like what happens when a musical gets translated into its not original language.

[1:16:41] Tommy: Um and I always find this fascinating when it happens, and in the clips you can see from this Japanese language production of ELF, I'm always fascinated by the parts of the lyrics they keep in English and the parts they translate, because usually that's what they will end up doing.

[1:16:58] Jimi: Um, as kind of like a a middle ground of here's the experience, we can keep some of the rhymes, and also we can help you understand the story by translating it into, you know, a a more uh audience understandable language.

[1:17:13] Tommy: Um of course the things that translated were all the plot stuff and the things that didn't translate were like Santa, Buddy the Elf, Happy Christmas.

[1:17:23] Jimi: Um it's just it's fascinating to watch.

[1:17:27] Tommy: I wanna know more.

[1:17:28] Jimi: I wish I had found it a l a little before recording time so I could look into it a little more.

[1:17:33] Tommy: Also it would help if I could uh you know read Japanese.

[1:17:37] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:17:38] Tommy: Um but it is another fascinating you know I'm always fascinated when things that strike me as as very American seem to become popular to not American audiences.

[1:17:52] Jimi: Absolutely.

[1:17:52] Tommy: Yeah I mean I was even surprised to see that because I know there's a huge musical theater scene in Japan.

[1:17:58] Jimi: Yeah totally huge popular music.

[1:18:00] Tommy: But elf isn't it's not a popular musical, yeah.

[1:18:03] Jimi: Do you know I mean that isn't like the oh my god it's L but they go even an institution.

[1:18:08] Tommy: Like it is that's what it is now.

[1:18:09] Jimi: Like it is just that institution that's yeah when it's way all the way over to um I'd be fascinated to know like I don't I don't know I've they'll never come on our radar if we do but if we do have any Japanese listeners like if you yeah have any sense of this and could help us oh I want to know there's so I I find threads of interesting uh Japanese musical theater like you know like when I'm doing research for a thing and find a really interesting clip of something here and then I can't get any deeper and I want to Yeah.

[1:18:42] Tommy: You know it is a huge it is certainly a huge blind spot blind spot in my musical theater world and I want to know so much more about it and I just don't have a way in yet.

[1:18:51] Jimi: Japanese cash car cash recording at Cas is very good.

[1:18:55] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:18:56] Jimi: They're uh I've seen clips of um uh they're wicked, um, or at least some Japanese production of Wicked.

[1:19:02] Tommy: It's bonkers, it's awesome.

[1:19:03] Jimi: Yeah, yeah.

[1:19:05] Tommy: Um I have the cast cast on.

[1:19:08] Jimi: Of course you do.

[1:19:09] Tommy: Of course you do, I guess it's and uh the the trailer for this production of elf will be in the show notes.

[1:19:15] Jimi: It will.

[1:19:15] Tommy: And it's the buddies really cute.

[1:19:19] Jimi: Quick, hop on my segue.

[1:19:22] Tommy: Where are we going with that segue?

[1:19:24] Jimi: I don't know, I just don't want to get into the trap where we thirst over another performer too much on the podcast.

[1:19:29] Tommy: Okay, yeah, you should listen to the news these episodes forget what we need.

[1:19:32] Jimi: Nobody cares.

[1:19:34] Tommy: Nobody cares, nobody cares, nobody cares cares.

[1:19:47] Jimi: Totally hopeless cause.

[1:19:50] Tommy: Even little children think that Santa's overrated.

[1:19:55] Jimi: I kinda get the feeling that New York is Job Cares.

[1:20:09] Tommy: Nobody cares.

[1:20:12] Jimi: Nobody cares about Santa.

[1:20:15] Tommy: The bringer up list.

[1:20:17] Jimi: What kind of world is that?

[1:20:22] Tommy: Where nobody cares about weary.

[1:20:33] Jimi: Ho ho ho no.

[1:20:38] Tommy: Speaking of newsies.

[1:20:40] Jimi: Warner Brothers.

[1:20:41] Tommy: That's Disney though.

[1:20:43] Jimi: I know.

[1:20:43] Tommy: I know.

[1:20:44] Jimi: But speaking of, you know, huge institutions.

[1:20:46] Tommy: Yeah, so this is um a Warner Brothers Theatricals endeavor.

[1:20:51] Jimi: Um it is, you know.

[1:20:53] Tommy: The other thought I had listening watching this is like, those also all feel the same.

[1:20:57] Jimi: Like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, um what else?

[1:21:03] Tommy: Hold on.

[1:21:03] Jimi: I had the list.

[1:21:04] Tommy: I lost the list.

[1:21:06] Jimi: Give me a second.

[1:21:07] Tommy: Most recently, Beetlejuice, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Elf, um, Bridges of Madison County, um, and then a couple plays.

[1:21:17] Jimi: Misery, um, the Dr. Chivago.

[1:21:19] Tommy: Um, and then uh bizarre, curious incident is also Warner Brothers.

[1:21:24] Jimi: Um, which surprises me every time I reread that.

[1:21:27] Tommy: Um Yeah, I know.

[1:21:28] Jimi: But is, you know, always fascinating to me because Warner Brothers is trying to elbow its way into Disney's territory here, um, thinking like we can make a buck.

[1:21:37] Tommy: Uh adapting our things.

[1:21:39] Jimi: Um, but so I got curious, Jimmy, and I looked up.

[1:21:43] Tommy: What do you think?

[1:21:43] Jimi: Um, don't look in the show notes.

[1:21:45] Tommy: Um what do you think Warner Brothers is working on next?

[1:21:50] Jimi: Well, I I I did look in the show notes and I do know what that is, but I've never seen this film.

[1:21:56] Tommy: Have you heard of this film?

[1:21:57] Jimi: You've never even heard of the film Dave that I had to look up to understand.

[1:22:02] Tommy: Nope.

[1:22:03] Jimi: Um never.

[1:22:04] Tommy: So this isn't a big film, is what you're telling me.

[1:22:06] Jimi: Dave, the musical has already gotten a tryout performance directed by Tina Landau in Washington, DC.

[1:22:13] Tommy: You can look up clips.

[1:22:16] Jimi: I don't know how I hadn't heard about this.

[1:22:17] Tommy: Um fascinating.

[1:22:19] Jimi: That's not what to mate.

[1:22:20] Tommy: Dave is a god, the cast.

[1:22:22] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:22:22] Tommy: Dave is a ninety-three um movie about the uh the my understanding is the the president uh has a problem, and so they find someone who looks exactly like the president to pretend to be the president.

[1:22:36] Jimi: His name is Dave, and hilarity ensues.

[1:22:40] Tommy: Great.

[1:22:40] Jimi: Um we love some mistaken identity.

[1:22:43] Tommy: It's a musical, so that got a tryout.

[1:22:45] Jimi: Um got a tryout in California somewhere, I think.

[1:22:49] Tommy: I did know that.

[1:22:50] Jimi: Um so those are the ones that have have hit the ground already.

[1:22:54] Tommy: Um the other two that I got word of um is Broadway Vacation, they're calling it, which is like have you ever seen like National Lampoons Christmas Vacation?

[1:23:05] Jimi: Or like I've never seen them, but yeah the the Griswold's films.

[1:23:09] Tommy: It's it's that, but to Broadway, maybe.

[1:23:13] Jimi: Um, and then a movie, another movie I'd never heard of, Mr. Saturday Night, which is starring and directed by Billy Crystal and is kind of about the life of a Billy Crystal-esque comedian, um, is also in the works, allegedly with Jason Robert Brown.

[1:23:31] Tommy: Right.

[1:23:33] Jimi: This is also weird to me because Warner Brothers is coming off the back of Beetlejuice being immensely spectacularly successful.

[1:23:43] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:23:43] Jimi: And Warner Brothers has other ventures that are as cult classic y as Beetlejuice.

[1:23:49] Tommy: You know what's not on the list of those?

[1:23:51] Jimi: Dave.

[1:23:53] Tommy: Right.

[1:23:54] Jimi: But maybe it will be.

[1:23:56] Tommy: Maybe, like maybe that's what they're trying to do.

[1:23:58] Jimi: They're trying to find some lesser known thing.

[1:24:00] Tommy: Um, look at because if you look at the journey that Evan Hansen did, you know what I mean?

[1:24:06] Jimi: It went to Arena in Washington and then it came over to New York and it did very well.

[1:24:11] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:24:11] Jimi: I watched some clips of Dave.

[1:24:13] Tommy: It's not bad.

[1:24:14] Jimi: It's not yeah.

[1:24:15] Tommy: I need to see more.

[1:24:16] Jimi: Um certainly it'll be a minute.

[1:24:18] Tommy: Uh yeah.

[1:24:19] Jimi: But I was just curious, like, you know, if you were the the Warner Brothers Jimmy, what Warner Brothers IP needs to be adapted?

[1:24:30] Tommy: Because I assume this is a conversation that happens from time to time.

[1:24:34] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:24:35] Tommy: And an artist didn't think, oh, you know what should be a musical?

[1:24:39] Jimi: Elf.

[1:24:39] Tommy: Let me call up Warner Brothers.

[1:24:41] Jimi: Like it happened the other way around.

[1:24:43] Tommy: Warner Brothers was like, we gotta make this a musical.

[1:24:47] Jimi: Who do we call?

[1:24:48] Tommy: Um I think that's pretty par for the course for how a lot of these Warner Brothers shows get made.

[1:24:55] Jimi: Um look at some popular Warner Brothers films.

[1:24:58] Tommy: You know, Pas Pasic and Paul weren't like a Christmas story has always deserved to be a musical.

[1:25:04] Jimi: But how do we convince Warner Brothers to let us do it?

[1:25:08] Tommy: What would be good?

[1:25:10] Jimi: God, they've done a lot, haven't they, all Warner Brothers?

[1:25:13] Tommy: I am legend, the musical part.

[1:25:17] Jimi: That would work.

[1:25:18] Tommy: The Lego movie, bring that on stage.

[1:25:20] Jimi: That would be that's an interesting like why c like why hasn't Lego already like why isn't there the Lego theatrical?

[1:25:28] Tommy: That's true.

[1:25:29] Jimi: I wonder.

[1:25:30] Tommy: I wonder if there's more licensing stuff too, and perhaps that's what we're seeing is like because Warner Brothers exclusively owns Dave, whereas like has inherited, say, Scooby Doo, right?

[1:25:42] Jimi: But maybe there's some weird licensing crossover from Hanna Barbera's sale to Warner Brothers that prevents Scooby Doo the musical from hitting Broadway.

[1:25:53] Tommy: Actually, there's what I was speaking to my friends about the other night.

[1:25:56] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:25:56] Tommy: Casablanca.

[1:25:58] Jimi: Ooh, you know?

[1:25:59] Tommy: It's got the name.

[1:26:00] Jimi: I don't know if it if the plot fits a musical pretty well.

[1:26:05] Tommy: What does?

[1:26:07] Jimi: Do you know what I mean?

[1:26:08] Tommy: Like when was Beetlejuice ever going to be a musical?

[1:26:10] Jimi: That's true.

[1:26:11] Tommy: Well yeah.

[1:26:13] Jimi: I would never have pegged that.

[1:26:14] Tommy: And they had to transform it quite greatly.

[1:26:17] Jimi: Yeah, that's totally fair.

[1:26:18] Tommy: And you've already heard my thoughts about keeping in the the songs and the film and the show.

[1:26:25] Jimi: Yeah You know?

[1:26:26] Tommy: Space Jam.

[1:26:27] Jimi: Although they're gonna reboot that as a movie.

[1:26:29] Tommy: But they are aren't they yeah I think that'd be a great movie.

[1:26:34] Jimi: Like there's so many musical yeah there's so many on here you know the Iron Giant musical would be fantastic it would be like King Congo and it would therefore it'd be bad.

[1:26:46] Tommy: It would just be about the giant.

[1:26:47] Jimi: It'd be about the giant and they could do a really cool giant but like by actually what I will say is that's a very Warner Brothers theatrical things to do.

[1:26:55] Tommy: Right.

[1:26:55] Jimi: So like what is keeping them you know I'm so curious about like do they have a big wheel that they spin?

[1:27:03] Tommy: Like how do these discussions happen?

[1:27:08] Jimi: You know it's just I find it so fascinating to me.

[1:27:12] Tommy: I think yeah it is an interesting one actually because I wonder if they're just like we're not good at this I wonder if they're just like this isn't our strength and we don't know why we don't nail it.

[1:27:24] Jimi: Because even Beetlejuice as successful as it was it wasn't down to Warner Brothers it was down to TikTok.

[1:27:30] Tommy: Yeah, and it still feels like kind of an accident.

[1:27:32] Jimi: But I do wonder perhaps there are now on the heels of Beetlejuice, because I would imagine Dave and et al. are not post or not very much post-Betlejuice reactions.

[1:27:45] Tommy: Like they were just kind of what they had piddling.

[1:27:47] Jimi: Um I wonder if Beetlejuice has shifted some of their strategy and it's just not public.

[1:27:52] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:27:54] Jimi: Like, yeah, maybe, maybe we'll see, you know, or maybe we're going to see a bit more of a Renaissance, but I don't know. I just think Disney's very good at it.

[1:28:02] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:28:06] Jimi: Warner Brothers still has to figure it out. But I think, so here's the thing. Disney's not very good at it. And I wanna, like, there's some nuance there. The stuff Disney does is successful. But Disney hires talented artists.

[1:28:24] Tommy: Mm-hmm.

[1:28:24] Jimi: Who also get hired for Warner Brothers projects. Right. But I just think Disney, it's weird because we've spoken, we spoke with Disney like two minutes ago about me drinking the Disney Kool-Aid. But I just think Disney know how to work with talented artists.

[1:28:43] Tommy: Sure.

[1:28:43] Jimi: And how to nurture them and how to get the most out of them.

[1:28:46] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:28:49] Jimi: I mean, maybe. We'll never know. It makes me sad. We literally, that's the annoying thing is that we literally, well, there's no thicker cursing than these institutions. But I do think it does, you know, you've put here, and I think this is a worthy question, is Elf the Musical a commercial cash grab or a worthy show, worthy piece or piece of art? And I the arena show has tilted me, it has tilted my dial in a direction that I wasn't initially headed.

[1:29:15] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:29:16] Jimi: But the arena show I think has only come out because it's a product of how successful the musical was in the UK.

[1:29:23] Tommy: Sure.

[1:29:24] Jimi: And in a way, the arena show is just a licensed production.

[1:29:28] Tommy: Right.

[1:29:29] Jimi: Of the music show. In the same way, uh in all honesty, the uh new National Theatre Japan production is licensed by MTI Theatricals. Like, right, right, exactly. Um they'll have just had permission. This is conjecture, but I imagine they've just had permission to do these extra things.

[1:29:48] Tommy: Yeah, sure.

[1:29:49] Jimi: But it does, you know, it begs the question, like I would wager on the scale of like types of art that we talk about on this podcast, let's limit it to that. The plot of Elf is neither terribly revolutionary nor terribly important to share with this world. We're not changing hearts and minds with it.

[1:30:07] Tommy: Absolutely.

[1:30:07] Jimi: To the point where when we before we recorded this, we were like, what do we talk about? Right. Because we can't spend hours pouring over the relationships between X, Y, and Z. And even the music is fine and good and unremarkable. Satisfying and catchy enough and nowhere near revolutionary. It is what it is. Um the whole thing is exactly what it is, right? It feels like exactly um which certainly leans more into the cash grab realm.

[1:30:39] Tommy: Right.

[1:30:40] Jimi: Right. But we know these writers.

[1:30:43] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:30:45] Jimi: And they are, we know that they do take it seriously.

[1:30:50] Tommy: Right.

[1:30:51] Jimi: They're not just phoning it in. Well, and even, you know, you look at the two Broadway casts, and they're a bunch of familiar faces. You know, uh who knew Elf would be uh uh uh what's his face from Avenue Q on the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade.

[1:31:08] Tommy: Um Brian.

[1:31:12] Jimi: Was it? Brian plays Elf in one of the incarnations of Elf.

[1:31:16] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:31:16] Jimi: Yeah. Oh right, okay. You can see the clip on Macy's Duntertalia?

[1:31:20] Tommy: Uh no, no no.

[1:31:22] Jimi: The guy. Um disappointing. When I was Brian, yeah. He plays Buddy?

[1:31:31] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[1:31:31] Jimi: On the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade.

[1:31:34] Tommy: Wow.

[1:31:36] Jimi: Right. Beth Lavelle played the mom both times, I think. Like these are Broadway people we know and love and adore and deserve work, right?

[1:31:46] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[1:31:46] Jimi: And uh what a great way to get 'em some, you know, pretty solid work for a minute.

[1:31:53] Tommy: I mean, yeah, but the thing is as well, it's like i it's also not bad.

[1:31:58] Jimi: Yeah, true.

[1:31:59] Tommy: Yeah, you're right.

[1:32:00] Jimi: Right? It's it's like it is still perfectly serviceable, perfectly enjoyable.

[1:32:05] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:32:06] Jimi: Um I guess I don't funny. I don't know.

[1:32:09] Tommy: Yeah, that's fair.

[1:32:10] Jimi: I don't know what like asking the question, commercial cash grabber worthy show, and I'm like running through my brain like what it how did how did for and this is pretentious and gatekeepy of me, so I apologize for all the words that are about to be on out of my mouth. But things that make like whatever we would call a worthy show to me somehow se must like tip the dial of musical theater, experimentation or revolution st in some tiny way. Like do something new or interesting or in a way it hasn't been thought about before. Or reinterpret something in a new and interesting way.

[1:32:44] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:32:47] Jimi: Elf doesn't do that. But I don't know how it would. I don't know what I want it to do to do that. You know what I mean?

[1:32:56] Tommy: Um we need to move so far away from the original.

[1:33:00] Jimi: Yeah, like like full on Lion King style, like and by then the powers at B aren't gonna say yes to it.

[1:33:07] Tommy: No.

[1:33:08] Jimi: Because then it's not accessible.

[1:33:10] Tommy: Right, exactly. And I will say perhaps this this uh uh approach was part of the death knell of the uh stage frozen thing um thing musical wow words Tommy But like Frozen tried to kind of come outside of its bubble from the musical just a bit, but not enough. And so the things that weren't the movie felt weird, and then the rest just felt like the movie.

[1:33:38] Tommy: Um and so it's kinda like you have to jump all fully outside of your circle if that's the tact you want to take.

[1:33:44] Jimi: Yeah, you're right. And I think this does have its own it has its own identity separate from the film. Like the characters are different just enough.

[1:33:53] Tommy: Yeah, sure.

[1:33:55] Jimi: Um I think it works. So I don't know, I think the jury's out on that one, like it's you know, I like to think that it has just become a commercial you know, I mean, sure. Like and that it wouldn't nearly be as successful as it was if it wasn't as good and as thoughtful and as well written.

[1:34:18] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:34:19] Jimi: I will say there were plenty of, you know, whenever I'm looking this up, I always like looking at high school productions that have snuck their way onto YouTube of stuff like this.

[1:34:26] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:34:26] Jimi: And one of the things I didn't enjoy is I mean, certainly a lot of high schools do this show, but a lot of high schools have done the show in like April. Um and you know, it's a Christmas show.

[1:34:37] Tommy: It's just a Christmas show.

[1:34:39] Jimi: And if a high school's doing it in April, that says something about the quality of the work.

[1:34:43] Tommy: Absolutely.

[1:34:44] Jimi: And I think it's yeah, it is. It's still in the same way that if you watch Home Alone 2 lost in New York in April, you're gonna have a great time and you're gonna be really excited for Christmas when it comes.

[1:34:53] Tommy: Right, exactly.

[1:34:54] Jimi: Except Home Alone 2 doesn't have Santa as a character in it, right?

[1:35:00] Tommy: That's true.

[1:35:01] Jimi: Right. Even more so Elf is like Christmas, Christmas, Christmas. This is a t story of Christmas. I am Santa Claus. Welcome to Christmas. Here we go. Happy April.

[1:35:10] Tommy: But that is a good point though, because it's not like Santa i it's still the story of Buddy the Elf.

[1:35:20] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:35:20] Tommy: Rather than the story of Santa.

[1:35:22] Jimi: Sure.

[1:35:22] Tommy: That's a weird conversation that we're having then but like in the if it was Miracle of 34th Street, right? Which is Santa centric. That would feel weirder.

[1:35:29] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:35:34] Tommy: Than I think this does.

[1:35:33] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:35:34] Tommy: Because Santa's just there. But like I I think what I'm saying is no one watches the movie Elf in April. It's not it's not on it's not on TBS.

[1:35:50] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:35:50] Tommy: Right. You won't stumble across it. And and for a whole group of high schoolers and an you know an adult to be like this is a show we're gonna do in March.

[1:35:59] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:35:59] Tommy: And and people will come see it and that will be fine. Speaks to like I don't think you know people certainly don't do that with any Christmas Carol adaptations. They don't do it with a Christmas story. Like No nobody does a Christmas story though.

[1:36:13] Jimi: And it makes me sad.

[1:36:14] Tommy: That's true. Fucking great but like there there are there are plenty of Christmas centric um theatrical productions to endeavor upon and none are done outside of November December. Save for Elf, which I've seen plenty of productions done in February, March, April, May.

[1:36:32] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:36:33] Tommy: Well, there you go.

[1:36:35] Jimi: It's the best musical ever. You heard it here, folks.

[1:36:41] Tommy: There's no denying.

[1:36:43] Jimi: Oh god, cancel the podcast.

[1:36:45] Tommy: That's it. We're done.

[1:36:47] Jimi: You thought it was wicked. No, no, no, sir.

[1:36:50] Tommy: It's Elf.

[1:36:53] Jimi: Be nice. You know whenever these things come out, someone's gonna be like, I've been waiting for this one forever.

[1:36:59] Tommy: I have already I didn't say it was bad. I said the opposite. I said it was very good.

[1:37:03] Jimi: I sense an air of sarcasm in your voice though when you say it is the best musical.

[1:37:07] Tommy: Who gave the gatekeeping speech?

[1:37:09] Jimi: And yeah, of course it was. But the thing is though, right? It'd be interesting to look at like percentages and things like that of how much money the show is made.

[1:37:20] Tommy: I did, I pulled up their grosses. Um it did pretty well both times, at least on Broadway.

[1:37:24] Jimi: Um extremely well for how short a span.

[1:37:26] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:37:27] Jimi: Do you know what I mean?

[1:37:27] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:37:27] Jimi: Like it broke records. The first run was between eighty and ninety percent capacity, or between eighty and a hundred percent capacity this whole run. Its second run in oh twelve um was a little less bottomed out at seventy-six percent, but still hugely popular.

[1:37:46] Tommy: Um you know, so super super successful.

[1:37:51] Jimi: So it sells well in the city of Christmas, New York.

[1:37:54] Tommy: That's it.

[1:37:55] Jimi: But that's an you know, like a Christmas story didn't do that.

[1:38:00] Tommy: Yeah, that's fair. Is it just the IP?

[1:38:04] Jimi: I don't know. Cause it's not. I think you know what I think it is, Jimmy? It's the same reason why the movie has done so well. The movie is both really, really good and fine at the same time.

[1:38:17] Tommy: Yeah, it's just so easy.

[1:38:19] Jimi: And like for its time, it was really, really good. And it has maintained fine levels of existence. And I think that has carried over to the musical. Is that the musical is fine?

[1:38:32] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:38:34] Jimi: Perfectly serviceable.

[1:38:36] Tommy: You heard it here, folks. Best musical ever is perfectly serviceable.

[1:38:40] Jimi: Absolutely. I think that, yeah, that's probably correct. Um put that on the poster.

[1:39:04] Tommy: Once we turn over to the ones, please will be Sparkle!

[1:39:13] Jimi: Jingle!

[1:39:13] Tommy: Shiny, show me!

[1:39:16] Jimi: Razzle, Dazzle!

[1:39:20] Tommy: Sparkle Charlie!

[1:39:22] Jimi: Swingle Jingle.

[1:39:32] Tommy: Jimmy.

[1:39:33] Jimi: That was Elf.

[1:39:35] Tommy: Elf.

[1:39:36] Jimi: We saved Christmas.

[1:39:37] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:39:40] Jimi: I'm feeling Christmassy already. How many days?

[1:39:43] Tommy: Uh three hundred and something.

[1:39:46] Jimi: Sixty three.

[1:39:49] Tommy: Can't wait. Counting down the days.

[1:39:51] Jimi: Plenty of time to do your Christmas shopping.

[1:39:53] Tommy: That's a different show.

[1:39:54] Jimi: Good point. Um to tight us over.

[1:39:58] Tommy: Yes.

[1:39:59] Jimi: Would you like a quiz question?

[1:40:01] Tommy: I would.

[1:40:01] Jimi: And Jimmy, will you make this one easy this time? Nothing obscure, please.

[1:40:06] Jimi: Sure. I think someone gave us some dissing in on Twitter about that this one was really easy, so enjoy. If the subject of this musical played basketball for the NBA, he'd be in the top five for basketball players with the largest hands. What show?

[1:40:29] Tommy: Easy. Easy as pie.

[1:40:32] Jimi: Um if you want to get in touch with us, uh you can hit us up on our show Twitter and Instagram, that's at Jim Atomic, or drop us an email on our website, Jimantomic.com. We also have merch too. Check out merch on the website, t-shirts.

[1:40:46] Tommy: Um I know.

[1:40:47] Jimi: And lastly, there's a uh a link in the show notes with an invite to our newly formed Discord. Hit up that link. It expires soon, so uh get there now.

[1:40:56] Tommy: But if you miss it, there'll be more later.

[1:40:58] Jimi: Exactly. Um and hey, if you would like to financially support the show, um that would be extremely nice. Um we have a Patreon that you can find on our website. Um as usual, we want to give a big shout out and a big thank you uh to all of our current patrons.

[1:41:13] Tommy: Yes, absolutely being wonderful people.

[1:41:15] Jimi: Um they're all enjoying our uh video podcast uh called Last Call, where we chat what did we chat about this time?

[1:41:22] Tommy: We chatted about Tony's we talked about Tony's, we talked about our Christmas gifts.

[1:41:27] Jimi: Absolutely. Yeah, we go real life BTS behind pulling back the curtain behind the curtain behind the curtain.

[1:41:35] Tommy: You're damn right.

[1:41:36] Jimi: But we have a lot of fun over there.

[1:41:37] Tommy: It's a ton of fun.

[1:41:38] Jimi: Um yes. But most of all, it really helps us everywhere. Tell your friends all about our show.

[1:41:45] Tommy: Um that is really our best means of getting it out there.

[1:41:50] Jimi: Absolutely. Hey, thanks for listening and Jimmy, cheers.

[1:41:55] Tommy: Cheers!

[1:41:56] Jimi: Merry Christmas.

[1:41:58] Tommy: And a happy new year.

[1:42:22] Jimi: No, it doesn't make any sense. But do you know where that's from?

[1:42:25] Tommy: Nope.

[1:42:26] Jimi: Lord of the Rings.

[1:42:27] Tommy: Taste man flesh.

[1:42:29] Jimi: And and my axe.