This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Tommy: Go.

[0:00] Jimmy: Bloop.

[0:03] Tommy: I don't think we've done that on pod.

[0:05] Jimmy: I think we've only ever done that on the last call.

[0:07] Tommy: I think we've done it every time on pod.

[0:09] Jimmy: No, no no no no.

[0:12] Tommy: Who do I edit these things?

[0:13] Jimmy: The boo-boo made it in.

[0:15] Tommy: It's not.

[0:16] Jimmy: Is will this be the one where the boo-boop makes it in?

[0:18] Tommy: Yeah, definitely.

[0:19] Jimmy: That's the fun that you can see on last call as going boo-boop.

[0:23] Tommy: Allah had a heart.

[0:25] Jimmy: Oh my god.

[0:27] Tommy: Well somebody get us another drink.

[0:29] Tommy: Welcome to Jim and Tomic's musical theater happy hour.

[0:34] Tommy: I'm Tommy.

[0:36] Jimmy: And I'm Jimmy.

[0:37] Tommy: That felt very d-d-d-d- and this is the only musical theatre podcast with Maraschino Cherries.

[0:47] Jimmy: And what's new?

[0:48] Tommy: Buenos Aires.

[0:50] Jimmy: That is the best one we've ever done, and I won't have anyone say any different.

[0:54] Tommy: Here we take apart your favorite shows, muddle them together with a shot of buffoonery, and pour you a refreshing glass of musical theater conversation.

[1:01] Jimmy: Tommy, what are you drinking today?

[1:03] Tommy: Well, sir.

[1:06] Jimmy: I am drinking some great uh I don't know, maybe like an ambrosia milkshake.

[1:13] Tommy: That would make sense.

[1:16] Jimmy: Do you know do you know that do you know that reference?

[1:18] Tommy: Because there's no liquids in this this show, I don't think.

[1:20] Jimmy: There are no liquids in the show.

[1:21] Tommy: I don't know that reference, and an Ambrosia milkshake sounds gross.

[1:25] Jimmy: So there's two things about that. One, ambrosia is the food of the gods.

[1:30] Tommy: Yes, obviously.

[1:30] Jimmy: It was what was in the cornucopia.

[1:32] Tommy: Gods.

[1:33] Jimmy: Um two, uh Ambrosia is the brand, like it's a big brand of like our custards.

[1:39] Tommy: Okay and like rice puddings.

[1:40] Jimmy: Okay.

[1:41] Tommy: So actually, uh an ambrosia milk would be bloody good.

[1:44] Jimmy: Yes.

[1:45] Tommy: So that's all I have to say on that.

[1:47] Jimmy: Why?

[1:48] Tommy: Tell me in the form of a quiz question.

[1:50] Jimmy: Aquaintment, thank you very much, sir.

[1:53] Tommy: Um well, this is a good one.

[1:57] Jimmy: No.

[1:58] Tommy: And actually, since then, I've I've found like three other questions that would have been much better.

[2:02] Jimmy: But do you know what? It was a bit of a game this time, guys. Bit of fun.

[2:06] Tommy: Did you have fun?

[2:09] Jimmy: So much fun, actually.

[2:10] Tommy: Okay, this musical has at least three things in common with Singing in the Rain.

[2:17] Jimmy: I wonder, I can't even remember what the three things were that we thought about.

[2:21] Tommy: Okay, they were Gene Kelly.

[2:23] Jimmy: Gene Kelly.

[2:24] Tommy: Um it was a movie to musical adaptation.

[2:29] Jimmy: Oh, that's a stupid one.

[2:31] Tommy: That's not. That's very perfectly valid.

[2:38] Jimmy: Yes.

[2:39] Tommy: Uh-huh. And the third one, can you remember?

[2:46] Jimmy: At one brief point, they sing and dance in the rain.

[2:52] Tommy: So there you go.

[2:54] Jimmy: We must have been real tired at the end of Oliver.

[2:57] Tommy: Yeah.

[2:58] Jimmy: What are we talking about?

[3:02] Tommy: Throw one in now.

[3:02] Jimmy: What was the better question?

[3:04] Tommy: Um there was one that was like because the original source material for Xanadu was actually like this random film that was also an adaptation of a play.

[3:17] Jimmy: So like this musical is an adaptation of a film, which is an adaptation of a play, you know what I mean?

[3:21] Tommy: Like that kind of thing.

[3:22] Jimmy: That's a better question.

[3:26] Tommy: It's insanity.

[3:35] Jimmy: I'm a night and the world shine toward me today.

[3:42] Tommy: I'm a night.

[3:44] Jimmy: Suddenly I am here today.

[3:49] Tommy: Seems like forever.

[3:52] Jimmy: And today.

[3:57] Tommy: Is this really me?

[4:00] Jimmy: I'm a lie.

[4:07] Tommy: I'm alive.

[4:10] Jimmy: I mean, like, if people do get that though.

[4:13] Tommy: To be honest, though, you just need to think, okay, Gene Kelly, what else has he done?

[4:18] Jimmy: Yeah, we have smart listeners who'd understand our bullshit.

[4:22] Tommy: Yeah, I mean, it's there's no way people will get that.

[4:26] Jimmy: Because there's probably many other things that have way more things in color.

[4:29] Tommy: But it doesn't matter. It's a bit of fun, guys, okay.

[4:33] Jimmy: Anyway, Xanadu has music and lyrics by a lot of people, but primarily um Jeff Lynne of the Electric Light Orchestra fame.

[4:46] Tommy: Um and John Farrar of Grease fame.

[4:50] Jimmy: Indeed, and it is a book by uh Jimmy's favorite, Douglas Carter Beane.

[4:54] Tommy: Beane? Beanie? Bean, big bean man.

[4:57] Jimmy: Bean.

[4:58] Tommy: What a man.

[4:58] Jimmy: What a man.

[5:00] Tommy: Uh this musical opened in 2007 on Broadway.

[5:03] Jimmy: Uh and it had, I think, more success than I would have given, I would have expected it to have.

[5:03] Tommy: I think more success than I think the producers probably expected it to have.

[5:13] Jimmy: Um, which is great.

[5:15] Tommy: Yeah.

[5:15] Jimmy: Uh yeah, it did pretty well.

[5:17] Tommy: It got um nominated for a number of things, critically quite well received.

[5:23] Jimmy: Um, yeah.

[5:24] Tommy: And a good uh a really solid run.

[5:26] Jimmy: Yeah, a successful national tour afterwards.

[5:28] Tommy: I canceled.

[5:29] Jimmy: Did you read about the 2019 cancelled tour?

[5:31] Tommy: Very disappointing.

[5:32] Jimmy: Yeah, I know.

[5:33] Tommy: Actually, that would have been bloody good.

[5:36] Jimmy: Would it have been great?

[5:36] Tommy: And did you see who was gonna play the evil sisters?

[5:40] Jimmy: Yes, and it's like a thing that should have happened on Broadway.

[5:43] Tommy: Well, obviously it's not not Broadway, it's a term, but should have happened a long, long time ago.

[5:46] Jimmy: So it was um uh Ginger Minge and Jinkx Monsoon.

[5:50] Tommy: Yeah.

[5:51] Jimmy: Two of our best at musical theater drag exports.

[5:54] Tommy: It would have been fantastic.

[5:56] Jimmy: Great.

[5:57] Tommy: But yeah, based on uh the movie, Xanadu, the poorly received movie with Olivia Newton-John and Gene Kelly, Gene Kelly's last movie.

[6:05] Jimmy: I know.

[6:08] Tommy: What a way what a way to get you know, I think it I think it is delightful because we're don't I mean we'll talk.

[6:15] Jimmy: We're we're gonna talk, aren't we?

[6:18] Tommy: I feel like we just talk now, don't we?

[6:21] Jimmy: We just have to.

[6:23] Tommy: Okay. Listen. This movie's nuts.

[6:27] Jimmy: It's it's absolutely nuts.

[6:30] Tommy: But who the hell hates this?

[6:33] Jimmy: I mean for its heterosexuals? Like, who is it?

[6:36] Tommy: I did watch because I like do you ever watch like old trailers for old movies?

[6:41] Jimmy: I enjoy it to see how like the art of making a trailer has changed.

[6:45] Tommy: Um I do, yes.

[6:47] Jimmy: Uh and actually this was still in the time of like glorious trailers.

[6:52] Tommy: Yes.

[6:52] Jimmy: If like Olivia Newton-John.

[6:57] Tommy: And it I think they call it like the all musical show.

[7:00] Jimmy: And it's like, is it though?

[7:02] Tommy: It's really not.

[7:03] Jimmy: It's really not.

[7:05] Tommy: Um this show, I mean, you can tell a lot of it got left on the cutting room floor, and that there was some.

[7:13] Jimmy: I don't know if anyone was ever driving this movie.

[7:16] Tommy: Well, uh no, so apparently, literally no one was driving this movie.

[7:20] Jimmy: I think there was like eight iterations of the script before it even got optioned.

[7:25] Tommy: Yeah.

[7:25] Jimmy: And like, I think even they still hadn't signed off on a script by the time that they had started shooting.

[7:33] Tommy: So that tells you everything you need to know.

[7:36] Jimmy: Um I thought I kinda love that.

[7:40] Tommy: That's what an adventure they would go.

[7:42] Jimmy: Or shooting from the hip.

[7:44] Tommy: It certainly doesn't seem like anyone, you know, at least from from the the bits and pieces I had said.

[7:51] Jimmy: You would imagine that a show like that would have a very tumultuous uh uh onset feeling.

[7:56] Tommy: Um but the sense I get is that people had fun making this thing.

[8:01] Jimmy: I think so.

[8:02] Tommy: Like, I think it it's weird because like a a lot of people don't talk about it well because in light of the reviews, but any like clips and things that you see of people in the midst, yeah, they're really upbeat about.

[8:18] Jimmy: Yeah.

[8:18] Tommy: I think they know that like it they don't know where it's going and they know that it's wild, right? But you can tell that they're having a lovely time.

[8:26] Jimmy: It's it's interesting to watch.

[8:29] Tommy: It certainly I will admit there were two moments in watching the movie where I did fall asleep and have to rewind.

[8:36] Jimmy: Really?

[8:36] Tommy: Yeah, actually.

[8:38] Jimmy: Um because you were particularly tired or because you got bored?

[8:41] Tommy: I think because I just got bored and disengaged.

[8:43] Jimmy: Um what bits?

[8:45] Tommy: I it was well, the the first time I fell asleep and then woke up in the middle of the animated sequence.

[8:50] Jimmy: I was like, oh shit, I missed something.

[8:53] Tommy: Um then the second time You actually didn't.

[8:56] Jimmy: Right?

[8:56] Tommy: I rewound and was like, how did Oh, okay. Like maybe I just closed my eyes for a little too long.

[9:01] Jimmy: Um and then I did find myself disengaging uh during the very long oh, what's the number? The where Gene Kelly and What's His Face are both in the having their imagined I thought it was cool, but it just kept happening.

[9:16] Jimmy: Oh no, I was totally into it.

[9:18] Tommy: It was very um Broadway, yes, everybody does.

[9:24] Jimmy: That's exactly what it was.

[9:26] Tommy: Yeah.

[9:27] Jimmy: Um oh okay, that's interesting.

[9:29] Tommy: Interesting bit is I wouldn't have thought that they would I would have probably fallen asleep uh at like the the bit when the uh dance around the uh like sound stage, whatever that duet was.

[9:45] Jimmy: Yeah, that one was weird.

[9:47] Tommy: No, even because it was dull just because it was it was a nice lilty song.

[9:50] Jimmy: Yeah.

[9:51] Tommy: Like when the palm trees inflate and stuff.

[9:54] Jimmy: Yeah, exactly.

[9:55] Tommy: That was that singing dance in the rain.

[9:59] Jimmy: I think that's that's you know, the bad parts about this movie are like d none of it makes any sense.

[10:06] Tommy: Like it doesn't, you know, and then they all go shopping for clothes, I think.

[10:10] Jimmy: Because it's important to look glitzy.

[10:13] Tommy: Is that why we had a whole dance number with clothes?

[10:16] Jimmy: They didn't wear any of the clothes that they got.

[10:19] Tommy: Yes, they did.

[10:20] Jimmy: Did they?

[10:20] Tommy: Jim Kelly comes up to um I can't remember his name. What's his name?

[10:25] Jimmy: Sonny one.

[10:26] Tommy: Michael Beck.

[10:27] Jimmy: Yes, Sonny.

[10:28] Tommy: Um comes up to Sonny when he sat on the beach and was all depressed, 'cause Kira's left, um, and he's like, Look at me, I'm Snazzy, he's got a necktie on.

[10:37] Jimmy: Oh, okay.

[10:38] Tommy: So they'd come on, this is a a deep story here that has lots of clear, clear thought.

[10:44] Jimmy: So I won't hear it.

[10:46] Tommy: Well, and even I was reading that, like, perhaps one of the uh key plot points got entirely excised from the script that the mural with the muses on it was painted by Sonny.

[10:59] Jimmy: Right.

[11:00] Tommy: Was like an initial plot point that is not in the It doesn't feature whatsoever.

[11:05] Jimmy: I think at one very brief point he says, um I painted I painted a mural.

[11:13] Tommy: Do you know just at one point in his life I painted it and that's a bit.

[11:17] Jimmy: Um But I thought that was come on, that's implied.

[11:21] Tommy: Um it what it but so much of this movie is implied then.

[11:25] Jimmy: Implied, yeah, exactly.

[11:26] Tommy: Like that's the other thing.

[11:27] Jimmy: Maybe I've just been watching too much David Lynch and I'm just you know, I'm so used to things not having any narrative sense.

[11:33] Tommy: I'm just like, of course.

[11:34] Jimmy: But like can you imagine seeing this for the first time? Like, even going in, I had a sense of some of the wackiness of it, but like they hold on to for the longest time that she's a muse and a god, and then he roller skates into the wall and ends up in Tron.

[11:52] Tommy: And she ends up in bloody Tron, yeah.

[11:54] Jimmy: And we never do they even say that it is Zeus and No.

[11:59] Tommy: And it's not even credited, it's credited as like old man and old woman or something like that.

[12:03] Jimmy: It's such like I think people watch 2001 a Space Odyssey and were like, okay, so it doesn't need to make sense, and then ran with that.

[12:12] Tommy: I think maybe that's it.

[12:13] Jimmy: Yes, yes.

[12:14] Tommy: Um so, right, to jump onto your point there, where you said people would have an idea of just how zany this was.

[12:21] Jimmy: Yeah.

[12:22] Tommy: So, hands up, I had never encountered anything to do with Xanadu other than the song Xanadu at all prior to researching for this show.

[12:33] Jimmy: Yeah.

[12:33] Tommy: Um so I had no idea.

[12:37] Jimmy: I thought it was like I thought it was set on Mount Olympus.

[12:37] Tommy: Like I thought it was about like gods.

[12:45] Jimmy: Yeah.

[12:45] Tommy: They just like got the name wrong and called it Xanadu.

[12:48] Jimmy: Do you know what I mean?

[12:49] Tommy: Um and I also did I thought it was quite a popular film.

[12:53] Jimmy: So I had no idea about the hate, which shows that I've been mixing in good circles.

[12:57] Tommy: You know, people appreciate it from but as I was watching it, I was like, oh my god.

[13:03] Jimmy: I sent you a message.

[13:05] Tommy: I was like, why the hell have I not seen it before?

[13:07] Jimmy: It does seem right up your alley.

[13:09] Tommy: It's so my alley.

[13:11] Jimmy: It's everything that my alley is.

[13:13] Tommy: Like, I I can't wait to watch it again.

[13:16] Jimmy: Yeah.

[13:16] Tommy: You know what I mean?

[13:17] Jimmy: Tell what do you what do you think? What can you put into words, what do you enjoy about this movie?

[13:22] Tommy: I will never watch this movie again.

[13:24] Jimmy: Really?

[13:25] Tommy: Yeah.

[13:25] Jimmy: How dull your life will be?

[13:28] Tommy: Um I it was just so fun.

[13:31] Jimmy: It was lovely. Like it was absolutely lovely. And the dance numbers were great.

[13:36] Tommy: The dance numbers are fantastic, yes.

[13:38] Jimmy: Um I love the music.

[13:40] Tommy: Sure.

[13:41] Jimmy: Like and you know, Michael Beck can't act for toffee, but it's really pretty.

[13:48] Tommy: I'll take it. I mean, if I can't have one, I'll have the other.

[13:51] Jimmy: Thank you. Um like Jen, I was I was kind of watching, I was like, I totally appreciate that this is trash, but it's so good. Like, yeah, it's just like good good trash.

[14:04] Tommy: Yeah, that's fair.

[14:06] Jimmy: I hmm. I also enjoyed it. Like, you know, don't get me. Like, can you not see yourself like you've had a rough week. You've had a really rough week.

[14:14] Tommy: Yeah.

[14:16] Jimmy: Your boyfriend's just brought in a lovely pack of edibles. And you're like, do you know what we should do right now? We should put on.

[14:22] Tommy: Yeah, you know, that actually sounds very nice. Um Yeah. Like describe your perfect Saturday afternoon.

[14:29] Jimmy: But I think I think like that is exactly what it sh and it I'm kind of like, God, I wish I knew about this film when I was in the depths of my anxiety last year. Like you know what I mean? This would be such a great remedy of like pure unadulterated escapism.

[14:43] Tommy: There's no peril at any point whatsoever in the film.

[14:46] Jimmy: No. So I mean it is just out and out joy.

[14:50] Tommy: Yeah.

[14:52] Jimmy: Right? Well I will say though, not a musical.

[14:55] Tommy: Not a m certainly not a musical.

[14:58] Jimmy: It was advertised as being one. And I mean I mean it has a soundtrack and Olivia Newton John sings a couple of songs.

[15:05] Tommy: Yeah.

[15:06] Jimmy: But uh I guess Gene Kelly sings diegetically once.

[15:10] Tommy: Yes.

[15:11] Jimmy: Does anyone else Because Olivia Newton John doesn't really like sing on screen that much?

[15:18] Tommy: No, she d she does.

[15:20] Jimmy: She sings twice on screen. I think she sings in Xanadu, and then there's that other one. And then I guess there's a duet. Maybe it is a musical.

[15:26] Tommy: It doesn't feel like a musical.

[15:28] Jimmy: It doesn't feel like a musical. But I don't know. None of these songs are meant to be in this score. Do you know what I mean? The score. Like nothing is written in as part of this book.

[15:37] Tommy: Right.

[15:37] Jimmy: Um testament to the fact that um so I read uh Rolling Stone article um with Jeff Lynn from ELO.

[15:45] Tommy: Okay.

[15:46] Jimmy: Um, and he briefly talks about it. Uh and he was like, I mean, I've never seen it. No, people said it was awful, so I just thought, what's the point? Um but the the songs that I wrote are really good for it. And I was like, okay, cool. So you had a lot of involvement, a lot of a lot of engagement with the the film process.

[16:07] Tommy: Exactly if he has no idea what is going on in the film, yeah, then these songs are not meant to be there. Do you know but are they like it's such a strange melding of the pop music world and the film world and the musical theater world?

[16:23] Jimmy: Like, would these songs have charted as high were they not associated with a film, even though the film is shit? Like if the album just came out on its own It might it might have though, because of Olivia Newton John and because of ELO, you know, I think it yeah, I think that is probably why they did so well.

[16:45] Tommy: I actually think the movie probably hindered.

[16:47] Jimmy: Yeah, that's fair. Which is a big old shame. Um, but yeah, I think I don't know. Because so if you don't know, I mean first of all, if you haven't seen the film, please actually I would say go and watch it. It's only an hour and a half.

[16:58] Tommy: Yeah.

[16:59] Jimmy: And it it's an experience, and it's it was worth if you're listening to this podcast, it's worth knowing for the context of the podcast. But also this so the actual soundtrack of the film was hugely successful.

[17:12] Tommy: Yeah.

[17:12] Jimmy: Far out of the success of the film. Um I'd sure owes to the success of the stage musical that we're gonna talk about in a second.

[17:20] Tommy: Yeah, absolutely. Um, and so it definitely has a lot of credo, um and a lot of good names attached to it because if you know, if you think like John Farrer who'd just done Grease um and wrote like a lot of Olivia Newton John's pop songs that hers as her as a singer-songwriter, um uh Cliff Richard also got involved, which I think crazy.

[17:43] Tommy: Yeah, do you know who he is?

[17:44] Jimmy: His name seems familiar.

[17:46] Tommy: Cause he's very he's very British, but I think he's probably had some enjoyed some success across the pond.

[17:54] Jimmy: What what has he written that I would recognize?

[17:56] Tommy: You might know Livendal. I feel like that was one of his bigger ones.

[18:05] Jimmy: I do not recognize my best to please. Um what else might you have done that you would know?

[18:13] Tommy: Did he do Summer Holiday?

[18:17] Jimmy: Yeah, I think he might have done Summer Holidays, yeah.

[18:20] Tommy: According to the Wikipedia, according to the Wikipedia article I'm reading about him right now.

[18:23] Jimmy: Oh, okay. You know that song? We're all going on a summer holiday.

[18:28] Tommy: No, I think these are all things you've invented too.

[18:32] Jimmy: Fair enough. I did not invent Cliff Richards. I take no responsibility for that man.

[18:37] Tommy: Um that's it, that's a surprise, actually. You don't have any Cliff Richard. Anyway, to to the British people, wow, Cliff Richards. Well yeah, huge names attached to it, of a surprisingly large budget.

[18:49] Jimmy: It does seem like it ballooned in production um to become even bigger than initially intended.

[18:54] Tommy: Yeah, I think that's another another kind of thing. It's like it probably started out as this kind of like indie like campy film anyway.

[19:02] Jimmy: Yeah, exactly. Like they were just like, we want to make this silly film, and then suddenly it's like, well, here's Dean Kelly. So um I do want to before we move away from the music of the film though, um, what ELO.

[19:12] Tommy: Yeah.

[19:13] Jimmy: I know Well? Yes. Um, what's the one Mr. Blue Sky Mr. Blue Skies? That's the one.

[19:18] Tommy: Yeah.

[19:20] Jimmy: Um real real popular pre assembly song. Uh although you have to end it before the second bit that everyone forgets about, where it gets all weird.

[19:29] Tommy: Um the Mr. Blue Sky There's a There's the like there's like a weird dubste drop in the middle of Mr. Blue Sky that I love.

[19:39] Jimmy: Um, but that everyone forget exists.

[19:41] Tommy: Forgets exists. Fair.

[19:44] Jimmy: So well that's good to know that you know ELO though.

[19:46] Tommy: Yeah.

[19:47] Jimmy: 'Cause they're great.

[19:48] Tommy: They are great.

[19:49] Jimmy: They wrote great music for this movie, even though it doesn't really exactly like the thing.

[19:54] Tommy: Well that's quite surprising. Uh huh. Because I was like, Oh, surely ELO have done a musical.

[19:58] Jimmy: Yeah.

[19:59] Tommy: And they haven't? Is this as close as they've gotten.

[20:01] Jimmy: And this is the closest it gets. And I was like, wow. That is a surprise.

[20:04] Tommy: That is a surprise. Because their music is so theatrical.

[20:07] Jimmy: Yeah. It I am amazed at how unapplicable all the songs are to this movie. Like even in context, they still don't like it just and here's a song, like Yeah. Insert love song.

[20:24] Tommy: Yeah.

[20:24] Jimmy: Do you know I mean insert sad song. Like that's it's there's nothing. Like there's not even like mention of of gods.

[20:31] Tommy: No, there's no mention of the like Greek mythology understory.

[20:35] Jimmy: Uh not that there's much of an understory to talk about, but there's also no mention of what's his face's like art career. Um the big big themes of the thing don't make it into the music.

[20:48] Tommy: Exactly. And that's something so there's some really like hardcore Jeff Lynn fans out there, and I wonder if any of them listen to our podcast. Because I would like to know, like anyone talking about this. Like, like uh where like where did this come from? Do you know what I mean? Like, was it we wanna write this show? We would love ELO's music, Jeff Lynn, will you write some songs?

[21:11] Jimmy: Right. Like, is that that's how I can see it working?

[21:14] Tommy: Yeah.

[21:14] Jimmy: Um, rather than like, we want this musical, this is what we want, you know. I mean, like, here's our plan.

[21:21] Tommy: Right.

[21:22] Jimmy: And Jeff from Death Lynn from Yellow, we want you to be a part of it, and he somehow just failed.

[21:26] Tommy: Like, I don't think that's what happened.

[21:28] Jimmy: Like, I think he was just charged with writing five songs.

[21:30] Tommy: Yeah.

[21:31] Jimmy: It's and and did it? I don't know. And also when they were like, we really want to do a roller skating film, but like, it takes a long time for important plot points to need us to be on roller skates.

[21:43] Tommy: Yes.

[21:44] Jimmy: They just kind of roller skate as a as a matter of course.

[21:48] Tommy: Like, it's not like

[21:50] Jimmy: Yeah, exactly. Because I mean, like, obviously, the setting is Venice Beach.

[21:52] Tommy: Right.

[21:53] Jimmy: Which is like roller skatey. We can be roller skating. But um But that's about That's about it. Like when they're roller skating around the sound stage, they don't need to be they could be dancing.

[22:07] Tommy: You know, and and like at the very least, in the and we'll get to the the stage adaptation, but at least it is more implied early on that they want to open, they call it a theater in that one, not a club.

[22:19] Jimmy: But like all implications are that uh Gene Kelly and Sonny want to open a music club akin to Gene Kelly's big band days.

[22:29] Tommy: Right, exactly. And like, I mean, there's a whole number about that, a whole incredible number in my hand.

[22:34] Jimmy: Let's pause for a second and we'll talk about music.

[22:36] Tommy: Not around there to know I won't take a maxi, and we're gonna be there to go.

[22:36] Jimmy: I won't take a maxi, don't want to hear what you want. It's gotta be all my way.

[22:58] Tommy: Tonight Is it one of my favorite mashups that's ever been written?

[23:55] Jimmy: Tommy. It's it's very conceptual. It's very cool. That moment where the two bandstands like accordion merge into each other is a visual master.

[24:04] Tommy: Along with the music.

[24:05] Jimmy: Yeah. I was like, that is some stage and screen. Goodness, right?

[24:10] Tommy: It's very cool. And it hasn't, I guess, of all the big songs, has more to do with the story than many other songs.

[24:18] Jimmy: In a like in a metaphoric way.

[24:20] Tommy: In a metaphorical thematic way. We are seeing uh Sonny and What's His Face's world combining.

[24:25] Jimmy: Uh-huh.

[24:26] Tommy: And they're like combined muse existing together.

[24:29] Jimmy: Yes, exactly. And it's I I quite like that as like a theme of the whole piece. Like remembering the past but looking forward to the future.

[24:37] Tommy: And I was like, that's a that's a nice idea. It's a it's a neat theme. I wish they did more with it.

[24:43] Jimmy: I wish that was a part of the story, yes, rather than just at one point.

[24:48] Tommy: Um but no, like that is really that's a very well written song because I wasn't expect like I actually wasn't expecting it.

[24:56] Jimmy: Yeah.

[24:56] Tommy: Um sometimes we've talked about this before, um, when there's like point counterpoint numbers, like in the music man.

[25:04] Jimmy: Yeah.

[25:04] Tommy: Like you're leaving too big a gap there.

[25:06] Jimmy: Right.

[25:06] Tommy: We know something's gonna be.

[25:07] Jimmy: We know something's gotta fit in there later.

[25:08] Tommy: Yeah.

[25:09] Jimmy: Um but then here I I wasn't I was not expecting a counterpoint moment whatsoever. These were two extremely different sounds suddenly merging together in like a really cool in a really cool way.

[25:23] Tommy: In a in a way that I can't you know what when else has rock and roll and big band I don't even know whether to classify the modern thing as rock and roll disco funk.

[25:35] Jimmy: Well, yeah, I mean that guy with the synthesizer, yeah, he was living.

[25:39] Tommy: Yes.

[25:39] Jimmy: Do you know I mean he was really having a great time tying up that woman to his speaker? Remember that? It was great.

[25:46] Tommy: Um yeah, it it's i it's not rock and roll, you know, it's not like the sixties rock and roll. It's the kind of pre punk, yeah, whatever that that was.

[25:56] Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I guess in the ELO kind of queen ELO, that that kind of way.

[26:02] Jimmy: Um But yeah, it that was a gr like that was part and parts of the way I was like, this is incredible. It's probably the best part of the movie.

[26:12] Tommy: I think it's better than um the than Xana do the closing number, which more people know.

[26:17] Jimmy: Um I would agree, yeah. I think like the the closing number Yeah, it's it's good, it's good fun, the song's lovely, but the we don't need the cowboy breakdown.

[26:29] Tommy: Right.

[26:30] Jimmy: When it it does also feel i i it's not the I just realized what I said out of context, what the hell do you think?

[26:39] Tommy: I know, but I knew exactly what you meant.

[26:41] Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

[26:42] Jimmy: Um, like it doesn't quite, you know, it's supposed to be this huge celebratory moment, which it is, but it's also very much choreographed in fourth camera.

[26:49] Tommy: Um, we haven't had this background of youngsters that have been looking for a hip new spot to go to the entire movie that we get the satisfaction of like, oh, and now they love each other all together at once.

[27:03] Jimmy: Right, exactly.

[27:04] Tommy: And also combined with this poorly telegraphed plot of maybe a different Olivia Newton-John, who's now not the muse, but maybe, well, the magic waitress Olivia John. Yeah, it's strange.

[27:14] Jimmy: Yeah, and like we get it, happily ever after, but like, but also like they kind of gave it the free pass when like the woman was like maybe for a moment, right? Maybe forever.

[27:26] Tommy: They should have just, they could have just done it forever.

[27:29] Jimmy: Why not? Yeah, no cancel it out with random waitress, but hey, why not? Xanadu.

[27:35] Tommy: Um, yeah, I think I agree. I think that dancing number is better, but actually, the dressing room shop montage number was bonkers, was out of this world. Like I just, I kept clutching my face because I just couldn't believe what I was watching.

[27:54] Jimmy: It was so fast my brain couldn't process it.

[27:57] Tommy: Yes, yes, very much that.

[27:59] Jimmy: Like people just kept appearing.

[28:01] Tommy: Yeah, and it, it, there was cool stuff happening, but my brain wasn't like well set up to like go as fast as the movie was going.

[28:11] Jimmy: Right. It was like, do you have that? The red things when you click through? It was like the Viewmaster, but someone else was clicking the thing too quickly for you.

[28:20] Tommy: Yes, and you weren't being able to focus in time.

[28:23] Jimmy: Yes, absolutely that. Because sometimes Gene Kelly was there dancing in a nineteen forties, you know, ballroom style, and suddenly then there's a woman with punk hair, and I'm like, ah.

[28:34] Tommy: But also like entered the scene with like these mannequins that aren't mannequins that then came to life that invited them in. And we're fine with that movie. You know what I mean? Like we'll keep going.

[28:45] Jimmy: Right. And then the big fake pink car.

[28:48] Tommy: And why was it a fake pink car?

[28:50] Jimmy: Oh, I can't remember the big fake pink car.

[28:52] Tommy: They like push out this fake like Rolls-Royce pink car, but it looks like it was made for like a very good high school production of this show.

[29:01] Jimmy: Right.

[29:01] Tommy: Oh yes. And then Gene Kelly gets out of it. I remember that.

[29:06] Jimmy: But it's just in the store. Why not? What was that story? What was that story?

[29:10] Tommy: And he got that we snozzy scarf. So get on him.

[29:16] Jimmy: Um, yeah. It like it, what a thing. Right?

[29:25] Tommy: But I think that's a, like I can, I can see because I imagine people are gonna be like, what the hell are they talking about? All of their reputation is gone. Like it in the canon of musical theatre, I'm not putting Xanadu up there.

[29:37] Jimmy: No, okay.

[29:40] Tommy: As in the film.

[29:42] Jimmy: I'm not putting the film up there.

[29:43] Tommy: Uh-uh, but as a, as an experience, as a film on its own.

[29:48] Jimmy: Yeah, worth a watch.

[29:49] Tommy: It's fun, so delightful.

[29:51] Jimmy: It's fun in the same way that watching Fantasia is fun.

[29:58] Tommy: Go on.

[29:59] Jimmy: Like Fantasia is like pretty, pretty lights and music to go along with it.

[30:08] Tommy: And the—

[30:08] Jimmy: Right, okay, but you don't care about the music.

[30:20] Tommy: But it's, there's a hippo and a crocodile in—do we care?

[30:22] Jimmy: It's real fun to look at.

[30:23] Tommy: Yes. I'll give you that. And also there's some Greek, Greek—

[30:26] Jimmy: And also there's some Greek underscoring themes. I mean, I do wonder if there is something deeper about—I don't know, this is probably a whole nother thesis on its own.

[30:35] Tommy: But like—

[30:37] Jimmy: About Xanadu?

[30:37] Tommy: Well, our, uh, whatever our like childlike entertainment cortex is, you know, the same—

[30:37] Jimmy: Okay.

[30:37] Tommy: The same reason like kids like to, you know, hit at the mobile above their crib or really enjoy watching something like the Teletubbies. Um, like pretty lights, funny noises, interesting to look at, and Xanadu tickles the same part of your brain, it feels like.

[31:03] Jimmy: A hundred, it is. It's that kind of like assault to the senses that's really enjoyable.

[31:08] Tommy: Like, uh, yeah, I fully would agree with that. And you're not like processing meaning per se.

[31:15] Jimmy: No, and I think that's the, I think that's where a lot of people fall down is that they're trying to like—I again, I, well obviously watching a lot of David Lynch, like people just need to take like for like and just think this is what it is.

[31:30] Tommy: I don't need, I don't need to try and find this, like why.

[31:34] Jimmy: Right.

[31:35] Tommy: You don't need to ask why to everything. Just should I just sit there?

[31:38] Jimmy: The thing with Xanadu though is like all signs point to that this was supposed to be a movie with the plot and music, and it just wasn't. Like they didn't intend this fantastic art house, you know, uh, uh, Fantasia.

[31:55] Tommy: Yeah.

[31:56] Jimmy: Like that was not, uh, written at the top of the chalkboard on day one in the writer's room.

[32:01] Tommy: Okay, I'll give you that.

[32:04] Jimmy: Yeah, I know I can't—I really, as a big David Lynch fan, I should stop comparing that to David Lynch films.

[32:10] Tommy: Um, that's quite important. Uh, before we move on though, uh, I do want to talk a little bit about Gene Kelly.

[32:19] Jimmy: Yeah, he's great.

[32:22] Tommy: Very great.

[32:23] Jimmy: He's so good. Like surprisingly great.

[32:26] Tommy: Yeah, like they're, uh, I genuinely laughed at, um, uh, oh they don't make rocks like they used to.

[32:34] Jimmy: Right.

[32:35] Tommy: And like there's a couple points where he does that like Gene Kelly cross-eyed goofy face. You know what I'm talking about?

[32:41] Jimmy: Yeah, it's when he's playing with his face, right?

[32:44] Tommy: Such a like wholesome moment in Gene Kelly, who still sits in my brain in this kind of asshole-esque, um, uh view of him.

[32:53] Jimmy: Absolutely.

[32:53] Tommy: Uh, but I think like weirdly, watching this and seeing him, I think sincerely having a good time.

[33:00] Jimmy: Yes, right.

[33:01] Tommy: I like he's a good actor. He's not that good an actor.

[33:04] Jimmy: No, he's a, he's a better dancer than he is an actor.

[33:06] Tommy: Um, I think you would be able to see if he was phoning it in.

[33:11] Jimmy: Right.

[33:11] Tommy: He wasn't actually having a nice old time.

[33:14] Jimmy: Well, and we've entered certainly the time of MGM movie musicals spans it several decades, but I do think Xanadu is squarely out of that kind of golden movie golden age MGM stuff, where there's a lot of, you know, put Gene Kelly in a movie and he's got like 16 default facial expressions he can use that'll probably get him through it.

[33:35] Tommy: And say that for everyone from that era. I don't mean it as a slight.

[33:37] Jimmy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[33:39] Tommy: But this is, this movie is from a different cinematic time period.

[33:43] Jimmy: Um, totally, and it does, he comes across as super earnest, you're right.

[33:49] Tommy: It's quite refreshing.

[33:51] Jimmy: Yeah.

[33:51] Tommy: Um, there's a few like, uh, behind the scenes facts that I know about him, um, from this film. Number one, which I absolutely love, uh, so the, the how they got him on, obviously they wanted Gene Kelly, um, and I think it was Kenny Ortega that really, really pushed for him.

[34:09] Jimmy: Yeah.

[34:09] Tommy: Um, and, uh, initially he like point blank refused to do any dancing. Um, then he went in for a meeting with Kenny Ortega, uh, just the two of them, and he was like, I'm not dancing, but if I was gonna dance, what kind of dance would I be doing?

[34:26] Jimmy: Um, Kenny Ortega was like, Well, I, I would imagine it would be, you know, pulling from your own lexicon.

[34:32] Tommy: Yeah.

[34:32] Jimmy: Uh, he was like, What do you mean what kind of thing? Um, so Kenny Ortega kind of got up and did some of like the Gene Kelly classics.

[34:39] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[34:40] Jimmy: Um, apparently Gene Kelly was naming like just naming them, they'd be like, That's the, you know, that's the that, that's that.

[34:45] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[34:45] Jimmy: Um, and then got up and they kind of started riffing together like and dance. Um, and, uh, I think it eventually like came up with almost like a kind of routine. It worked up a bit of a sweat, and Gene Kelly was like, Alright, I'm gonna do it. And that was how he kind of did, and then from that point on, yeah, um, Gene Kelly actually kind of took Kenny Ortega under his wing um and became a sort of mentor for him for like the next 20 years of his life, and like this is still relatively early in Kenny Ortega's career.

[35:18] Tommy: Absolutely.

[35:18] Jimmy: Um, I think wow, that's a, that's a gift. Like because say what you want about Gene Kelly, but the man can dance, and the man can choreograph.

[35:27] Tommy: Yeah, well, and he has an understanding of cinematic choreography.

[35:31] Jimmy: Exactly.

[35:32] Tommy: Understands dance for film, which Kenny Ortega, that's his specialty these days, right?

[35:36] Jimmy: That is his specialty, and he's, uh, he is a bit of a master of it.

[35:38] Tommy: Yeah, um, so I thought that little yarn was delightful. Um, so he choreographed the, uh, the whenever you're away from me number with him and Olivia Newton-John. Apparently, so this was filmed um as like pickups. This is filmed after production had finished.

[35:56] Jimmy: Yeah.

[35:59] Tommy: Um, and they got him back on and they, I, he initially kind of refused because like, no, my contract's up, I'm not doing this. Um, they eventually got him back on the grounds of, uh, it would be on a closed sign stage, and the only people there would be him, Olivia Newton-John, the camera operator, and Kenny Ortega, and that was it.

[36:18] Jimmy: That's so—I'm not a Gene Kelly historian. I wonder if you know why is Gene Kelly so nervous about dancing later in his career.

[36:27] Tommy: I think it's because the classic thing of anyone being nervous about doing things that—because he had a big break, do you know what I mean? There was a chunk of time when he wasn't dancing. Um, and obviously as an older gentleman, you can't be as spry as you were, you know what I mean? When in your Singing in the Rain glory days, like, um, but what I will say to his credit, the man's still pretty damn spry.

[36:49] Jimmy: He's got it.

[36:50] Tommy: It's really sweet. I find it really wholesome. And the fact that his character's whole underscore, his, you know, sentimental story is like, ah yeah, I used to do art, but I don't anymore.

[37:02] Jimmy: Exactly.

[37:03] Tommy: Like the good old days, and, uh, you know, like it's nice for our time. And you can see I think like there's a lot of like, there is a lot of genuine earnestness in his performance there. Um, and I think him and Olivia Newton-John are a lovely little pair, because obviously she's no Debbie Reynolds, um, who is still relatively new and, but she was a dancer.

[37:26] Jimmy: Uh, Olivia Newton-John not a dancer.

[37:29] Tommy: Yeah.

[37:29] Jimmy: Um, and he's, he said before in interviews that, uh, he choreographs pieces for the women that he's working with.

[37:38] Tommy: Sure.

[37:38] Jimmy: So in theory, Debbie Reynolds got a harder time because she was good and he knew that she could be great. Whereas with Olivia Newton-John, because you can tell it's not lovely, but it's very sweet. Um, you can tell she's not gone through the same, you know, extreme torture that Debbie Reynolds went through in Singing in the Rain.

[38:04] Tommy: Yeah.

[38:04] Jimmy: Um, but it's still a really nice number, I think, like still really nice piece, and apparently they both got on really, really well.

[38:12] Tommy: Yeah.

[38:12] Jimmy: Huh.

[38:13] Tommy: Um, which I quite like. I think that's lovely. It's such a fascinating like passing of, you know, a tiny passing of a torch that seems to have existed inside of Xanadu.

[38:23] Jimmy: And right does kind of mark a, you know, we're, we're in that time of what, what are we, 1980, 1980 even.

[38:34] Tommy: Mm-hmm.

[38:35] Jimmy: I think so. So like we're just coming off Hair, the movie, um, you know, Grease is two years ago, The Wiz is a couple years ago, I think they're the late 70s. We're, we're seeing this transition of movie musicals from like this is where we're ending. We're, we're leaving that kind of sound stage, MGM, you know, uh, uh, Condon and Green style, uh, uh, freed unit stuff, and now moving into the like eighties nineties of musical theater, which is wacky and has a very like hippie homegrown feel to it.

[39:16] Tommy: And a very much a like high experimental feel because obviously there's lots of weird graphics and visual effects decisions that they make in this film. Just even all the funky transitions where like something will end and then it'll be like the transitions, it's, they're great, or just like massive X for no reason.

[39:36] Jimmy: It just, it, uh, it feels like straight out of Sesame Street.

[39:38] Tommy: I mean, I guess this is why I feel like it, it is that Teletubby tickling of your brain.

[39:42] Jimmy: Yeah, is like, you know, then Elmo shows up and is like, ha ha, next scene.

[39:46] Tommy: Like exactly, that's the thing. Is I'm like what I would love to know to be that fly on the wall to be like, was that a creative decision, or were they just like fuck it? Do you know what I mean?

[39:56] Jimmy: Right, is it like, cause it feels like it does feel like those kind of late 70s TV shows like Laverne and Shirley—not Laverne and Shirley, Cagney and Lacey, very different. Um, like I don't know why, it just calls into those like Charlie's Angels, you know.

[40:12] Tommy: I mean, like that very late 70s.

[40:16] Jimmy: And I'm sure it's just of the time. And it was because I remember first clocking the transitions after like the seventh one happened, and then there was some scene that just ended with like fade to black, fade back up, and I was like, Well, what's going on?

[40:29] Jimmy: Like exactly. They were just they forgot to put in a transition there, I guess.

[40:32] Tommy: Or were they doing the wrong one?

[40:34] Jimmy: Or were they making a story choice? Whatever possible story choice you could make at that moment.

[40:40] Tommy: I hope so.

[40:42] Jimmy: Um yeah, I'dn't do it. Not to mention the whole like rotoscope dancing segment.

[40:52] Tommy: Like all the weird special effects, the weird smeary yellow uh like lightning speed work speed trails and the whole the whole like weird uh blue outline.

[41:05] Jimmy: I don't know if it was rotoscope or whatever.

[41:07] Tommy: Well, I think it must have been rotoscoping, but also they composited that piece of film nine times.

[41:13] Jimmy: That's advanced shit. There was some there's some neat SFX stuff in here.

[41:17] Tommy: And you can see when uh for one number for your opening, like come on, when Sonny ends up in like the Negaspace, and he's you can tell he's blue screen because he's got blue fringe, but they put him on a black background.

[41:28] Jimmy: And then there's like little bits of his fringe that aren't attached. I love that. It's so it's an it's a nutso film on a like production styling and special effects styling, but no one no one's gonna be like, ah yes, the revolutionary and important seminal special effects from Xanadu, right?

[41:47] Tommy: No.

[41:48] Jimmy: No. And I guess better movie scholars than us will know whether that was experimental or whether they were actually quite late to the party.

[41:55] Tommy: But for the movies that I've watched, they weren't doing that.

[41:58] Jimmy: I mean, I'd like that to me, like actually to me, Xanadu captures the 80s vibes.

[42:03] Tommy: And so for that to happen in nineteen eighty.

[42:05] Jimmy: Yeah.

[42:06] Tommy: Well, and part of it is it's certainly that sort of stuff hasn't existed in any movie musical we've seen.

[42:12] Jimmy: Like, even like hair doesn't do that kind of stuff.

[42:16] Tommy: Um it does not. You know, and that's maybe two years earlier, the movie.

[42:19] Jimmy: And like the fact that they did make the choice of like, you know, this yes, they're gonna dance, but they're gonna dance and be outlined with blue electricity.

[42:30] Tommy: It's such a such a choice.

[42:33] Jimmy: Such a it is. And you wonder if it was a choice or just like uh whatever, it'll look I know but then if it was uh whatever, I'm like, cool.

[42:40] Tommy: Yeah, go with it.

[42:42] Jimmy: Yeah.

[42:43] Tommy: Because listen, everyone.

[42:46] Jimmy: It's bloody enjoyable. It's it's worth one watch at least, just to say you've watched it.

[42:51] Tommy: It is worth at least one watch.

[42:52] Jimmy: Yeah.

[42:53] Tommy: Yeah, I would completely agree.

[42:55] Jimmy: Um, okay. We've talked about the film enough. Let's talk about the actual show.

[43:00] Tommy: Hop on.

[43:01] Jimmy: I haven't said it for a while, but it'd be fun to say.

[43:03] Tommy: Yeah, okay. I'll let you know.

[43:04] Jimmy: I guess we should be roller skating, shouldn't we?

[43:07] Tommy: We should roller skate.

[43:08] Jimmy: Oh, do they make motorized roller skates?

[43:10] Tommy: That seems dangerous.

[43:13] Jimmy: I feel like that must be a thing.

[43:15] Tommy: It must be. These days with all the other motors.

[43:18] Jimmy: Although, how could you get oh no, it would be motor yeah, okay. I was like, how could you get a combustible engine in a shoe?

[43:23] Tommy: But it doesn't need to be.

[43:29] Jimmy: We are managing up with join the stream to that dreams to that.

[44:18] Tommy: So there was also a musical.

[44:21] Jimmy: Which is I have I had forgotten before we started doing research. This was one of the early um uh library CD checkouts I did.

[44:31] Tommy: Xanadu was in my iTunes has been for decades.

[44:36] Jimmy: I just have never listened to it save for maybe once or twice when I first got it.

[44:40] Tommy: Um I think partially because it was at that time.

[44:43] Jimmy: Yeah, and it was so I I imagined it's because just the soundtrack is so inscrutable.

[44:49] Tommy: Yeah, for sure. You would be like, this isn't part of any musical.

[44:52] Jimmy: This isn't part of any musical. I don't know what his pop song's got on here.

[44:54] Tommy: I don't know what it's referencing. The cover looks ridiculous.

[44:57] Jimmy: Yeah.

[44:59] Tommy: Yeah. Like it's it's just doing the cover for for for listeners.

[45:04] Jimmy: It's Jimmy has his hands over his eyes.

[45:07] Tommy: It's a little I'm expecting the wind machine to start so his hair flies back.

[45:11] Jimmy: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[45:13] Tommy: Um yeah, I it i it's not been on my radar.

[45:17] Jimmy: No.

[45:17] Tommy: Whatsoever.

[45:19] Jimmy: I think I knew Cheyenne was in it.

[45:21] Tommy: Yeah.

[45:23] Jimmy: I think I knew Car I must have known Carrie Butler was in it.

[45:27] Tommy: Sure.

[45:28] Jimmy: I must have, yeah.

[45:29] Tommy: Because this is early carry.

[45:30] Jimmy: Yeah.

[45:31] Tommy: Because I knew she did hairspray, which means I must have known she did this.

[45:37] Jimmy: I had no idea Jackie Hoffman and Mary Testa were in it.

[45:40] Tommy: I had no idea that Jackie Hoffman from Mary Testa were in it.

[45:44] Jimmy: At all. And they are What a lovely surprise.

[45:47] Tommy: My favorite part of the show.

[45:50] Jimmy: Okay, yeah, let's just talk about them straight off the bat. So if you're you know, watching along as you're listening to this show, um, you will find that the musical is very different in terms of story.

[46:02] Tommy: I would say in short, I described it to my boyfriend. I was like, they they fixed it.

[46:08] Jimmy: They did a fix.

[46:08] Tommy: They fixed it.

[46:09] Jimmy: Yeah, it makes it makes more sense.

[46:13] Tommy: They made it a story.

[46:15] Jimmy: You know, um there was there was light and shade.

[46:18] Tommy: Yeah.

[46:18] Jimmy: No, hooray.

[46:20] Tommy: Um yeah, basically, so basically, um Mary Testa and Jackie Hoffman uh play effectively like the antagonists of the piece of the case.

[46:28] Jimmy: The evil muses the big changes in the musical are um we establish up front that what's her face, Kira is a muse, is going to go to Earth, is going to try and help this art man.

[46:43] Tommy: Yes.

[46:43] Jimmy: And he he did paint the mural.

[46:46] Tommy: He did paint from that is in the musical.

[46:49] Jimmy: And the other muses also maintain a presence throughout the thing.

[46:53] Tommy: As honestly, a Greek chorus.

[46:55] Jimmy: Um is it small casting?

[46:58] Tommy: Is it a great chorus?

[46:59] Jimmy: Doesn't matter.

[47:00] Tommy: Doesn't matter. I don't care.

[47:02] Jimmy: But two of the muses, um, I don't know, mm is it one of them Calliope.

[47:08] Tommy: Calliope.

[47:10] Jimmy: Calliope is the correct pronunciation. Well done.

[47:12] Tommy: Have you practiced?

[47:13] Jimmy: No.

[47:13] Tommy: That one I know.

[47:14] Jimmy: Okay.

[47:14] Tommy: Um the other one is is Mel Sun.

[47:20] Jimmy: Melpo Melp Melpony.

[47:22] Tommy: Melopony.

[47:22] Jimmy: Melpomini.

[47:24] Tommy: Melp Mel Mel Mel Melanoma.

[47:26] Jimmy: Mel Mel Melpomini.

[47:28] Tommy: Melanoma.

[47:29] Jimmy: Yes, melanoma.

[47:30] Tommy: It could be melanoma.

[47:31] Jimmy: Yeah.

[47:32] Tommy: It's a Greek word.

[47:33] Jimmy: The other ones don't matter.

[47:34] Tommy: Can you remember any of the other ones?

[47:36] Jimmy: Well, what's notable for the Greek fans amongst us, Jimmy, of course, being a huge one.

[47:43] Tommy: In the film, she's Terpsicary, who is the muse of dance.

[47:48] Jimmy: Makes perfect sense.

[47:49] Tommy: Yes.

[47:50] Jimmy: In this, she's Claio.

[47:53] Tommy: Oh.

[47:53] Jimmy: And Terpsiker is just a different one.

[47:55] Tommy: Like, why are you doing that?

[47:56] Jimmy: What's that change about?

[47:58] Tommy: Why are you doing that? Nobody knows.

[48:00] Jimmy: Weird change.

[48:01] Tommy: Weird intensive talked about these before, like these weird intentional changes that they made.

[48:05] Jimmy: And you're like, why why this one?

[48:08] Tommy: I want to know the story.

[48:09] Jimmy: Um.

[48:10] Tommy: But so they made the plot have a more linear progression.

[48:14] Jimmy: Um the two sisters put a curse on Olivia Newton John's character, uh, so that she will fall in love with Sonny.

[48:23] Tommy: Um that's against Zeus' rules.

[48:26] Jimmy: Uh and thus we have drama and stakes, finally.

[48:30] Tommy: That's it.

[48:31] Jimmy: Yes, there are finally some stakes.

[48:33] Tommy: Um and the uh Danny character isn't as like lovely as Gene Kelly.

[48:39] Jimmy: Yeah.

[48:40] Tommy: He takes a bit more convincing um, but still comes round and still eventually has that.

[48:47] Jimmy: Which is the theater this time.

[48:49] Tommy: Because they keep referencing the theater that they're in.

[48:51] Jimmy: Yeah, exactly.

[48:52] Tommy: And it's more um Cheyenne talks about it being uh like hub of all art forms, including athletics.

[49:00] Jimmy: Interesting.

[49:00] Tommy: Which isn't an art forum.

[49:01] Jimmy: That's an I'm sure athletics athletes amongst our listeners will say that oh, it is absolutely not a problem.

[49:08] Tommy: It's not a sport.

[49:09] Jimmy: It's not.

[49:09] Tommy: They get more fun to get in my school.

[49:11] Jimmy: Um I think most importantly, the tone that I love that they get too much funding to be artist.

[49:21] Tommy: It is literally true.

[49:23] Jimmy: Um the biggest and most important change they made with the stage musical is that it knows what it is.

[49:30] Tommy: There's there's a line I wrote down early on, I forget who says it, but someone has some quip about the show that they're doing right now, and they say, This is like children's theater for 40-year-old gay people.

[49:41] Jimmy: It shockingly enough, it's Mary Testa who says that.

[49:45] Tommy: So test that, and not Tesla, very different person.

[49:49] Jimmy: Um like that in in a way, like those two are they have lots of these like self-re referential comments.

[49:55] Tommy: But actually, admittedly, it's kind of throughout the whole cast because Carrie Butler has a fair few as well.

[50:00] Jimmy: Yeah, fair.

[50:00] Tommy: Yeah.

[50:00] Jimmy: I mean, there's a whole um doesn't Carrie Butler has a whole thing at the end that's like um uh or when when what's his face is Zeus and they're like, we shall adapt it into a better stage play from the inferior cinematic experience.

[50:16] Tommy: Yeah, basically.

[50:17] Jimmy: And also they keep ref um referencing Clash of the Titans.

[50:20] Tommy: Yes, because uh uh the the very end of the show is just Clash of the Titans.

[50:26] Jimmy: It's just Clash of the Titans and and at one point they lampshade that and Sonny's like, wait a minute, I've seen this movie.

[50:33] Tommy: It's so and like to the point where Jackie Hoffman is impersonating Ursula Andrews.

[50:38] Jimmy: Yes, like it's very peculiar.

[50:42] Tommy: It's but it works.

[50:44] Jimmy: It works, it works really well.

[50:46] Tommy: Um there's plenty of roller skating.

[50:48] Jimmy: They put the audience on stage.

[50:50] Tommy: Um Carrie Butler's in skates.

[50:52] Jimmy: The whole time.

[50:53] Tommy: Yeah.

[50:54] Jimmy: Kudos.

[50:55] Tommy: Yeah.

[50:55] Jimmy: That's about the most spectacular thing it has going for it, in fact.

[50:58] Tommy: It is a very you can tell it's a very low budget endeavor.

[51:02] Jimmy: V low budge.

[51:03] Tommy: V V low budge.

[51:04] Jimmy: And also, like an interesting, like, I I I feel like I've not thought about this enough.

[51:09] Tommy: Uh huh.

[51:10] Jimmy: But is this the kind of was it around this time that musicals did start to get quite stripped back?

[51:17] Tommy: Um, like, or certainly like certain presentations.

[51:20] Jimmy: Because I'm thinking of like Next to Normal's just coming up.

[51:23] Tommy: Yeah.

[51:23] Jimmy: Wedding Singer was pretty stripped back.

[51:25] Tommy: Yeah.

[51:26] Jimmy: Um Spring Awakening.

[51:28] Tommy: I mean I think quite stripped, you know what I mean?

[51:30] Jimmy: I think we're certainly riding on I think Xanadu is absolutely riding on the coattails of like the Jersey Boys Revolution.

[51:37] Tommy: Um it was high budget, but the set was definitely stripped back.

[51:42] Jimmy: Um there is a sense that like you don't need to It doesn't need to be fooled.

[51:42] Tommy: You don't need to dazzle the audience.

[51:49] Jimmy: I think Disney Castle.

[51:51] Tommy: I think the pendulum is swinging back from like the mega musical area era.

[51:55] Jimmy: You don't need a chandelier, you don't need a flying tire.

[51:57] Tommy: Like you can get away with just a couple.

[52:00] Jimmy: And certainly this has a couple tricks, but it's not there are no big you know it's it's why there are people on the poster and not a thing on the poster.

[52:09] Tommy: Right, exactly.

[52:09] Jimmy: Like it's not it isn't winning awards for its set design.

[52:12] Tommy: Right, exactly.

[52:13] Jimmy: At all. Very, very simple.

[52:14] Tommy: Um but yeah, it it's fine, it does the job.

[52:17] Jimmy: Um and I'd be interested to see actually if the cancelled tour did anything different with that.

[52:23] Tommy: Yeah, I wonder because obviously a big thing about tours in recent years are is that they are a spectacle.

[52:29] Jimmy: Right.

[52:30] Tommy: And you bring your spectacle on the road.

[52:31] Jimmy: So I'd be interested to see if it's a big thing.

[52:33] Tommy: I bet you would be it'd be the roller skating for that.

[52:36] Jimmy: They'd do more roller skating in the audience, they'd you know that would be my my gamble.

[52:41] Tommy: Um, go go uh Starlight Express with it and go all in on roller skates.

[52:47] Jimmy: Everyone's on roller skates as much as possible.

[52:48] Tommy: All the muses are on roller skates all the time.

[52:51] Jimmy: Yeah.

[52:52] Tommy: I bet that would be my 'cause actually that's a good point because uh even just in the script, there's not really much in the way of setting.

[52:58] Jimmy: Right.

[52:59] Tommy: No, there's like you've got the office in the theater place, and then I guess just generic Venice beach.

[53:05] Jimmy: You've got the phone booth, uh and then you've got Mount Olympus.

[53:11] Tommy: Right.

[53:11] Jimmy: Yeah, okay, fair so maybe it doesn't really need it.

[53:14] Tommy: Yeah.

[53:14] Jimmy: Yeah, okay.

[53:15] Tommy: Um but I think they do you know, more ramps, more more tricks.

[53:19] Jimmy: Um that would that would be what I would do.

[53:22] Tommy: Um go full Starlight Express.

[53:25] Jimmy: Go full go full Starlight Express, ramp up the camp, um, write in um, you know, do it do it like a Disney Parks theatrical show.

[53:35] Tommy: Um where the genie is always out there like m ribbing an audience member and making a joke about the backstreet boys and like whatever the pop culture reference you can make at the time.

[53:47] Jimmy: Like that's that's what Xana do the stage musical is.

[53:50] Tommy: Don't get me wrong, I think it works.

[53:51] Jimmy: Um but there's no you know, it is certainly not a show with like deep integrity to uphold.

[53:59] Jimmy: No, and so I think that's quite an interesting thing. Um because any interview you see with the creators of this musical, they basically talk about how it's shit. Not the musical, uh huh. The source material. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? They go on a lot about like, wow, that was really bad. Yeah. Wow, this is really bad. And I find that odd. Sure. Not I mean, obviously, it's tricky to defend a musical that is notoriously people know it for being bad. It won four Razzies, for goodness sake. Right. It's the r it's I believe it is the reason the Razzies are. Is the reason for the Razzies, exactly. That isn't a good, you know, thing to start. Right. But I find it interesting that they lean into this is really bad.

Yeah. We're gonna do it this way. Then this is a cult classic. Right, because that's a different angle, yeah. Because yeah, because I also feel like that's gonna be where they're gonna get a lot of their audience from. Yeah. Are the actual genuine fans of Xanadu. Yeah. But it um but I still think Xanadu has found this weird bit, like we you know, we went on end about how uh uh fun parts of it are to watch, still knowing it's completely terrible. You think of like the other cult classic that strikes in my mind is Rocky Horror, and the fans of Rocky Horror as a cult classic don't have that tail end of that say, and also it's terrible. [55:23] Tommy: I don't think Rocky Horror is terrible, but I see I don't think I 'cause the thing about Rocky Horror is it is a send up.

[55:30] Jimmy: Yeah. [55:31] Tommy: That's fair. Whereas Xanadu was was in earnest intentional. [55:34] Jimmy: Yeah. [55:35] Tommy: Yeah. Um and I think that's fair, that's different, yeah. [55:39] Jimmy: Hmm. [55:40] Tommy: I also think though, I think that um that's something that I think the musical struggles with. Not that it certainly appears to have struggled with, but in my opinion, is something that that jars with me a little bit, is that because the film is so earnest and loving and happy and delightful, um the musical is it sometimes feels a bit like a bully. [56:11] Jimmy: Yeah, because when it takes its like sardonic tone about like it doesn't what's his face have a line about like you have until this afternoon to put this place together, that should be plenty of time for a musical comedy.

[56:21] Tommy: Um like they pull all sorts of those lines. I don't know if that one's exactly the right one. [56:26] Jimmy: And and there's like you know, they make a couple of like allusions to the film, but very much at the film's expense. [56:32] Tommy: Um and it's so it's uh it doesn't feel like it's oh we all know that this film is mad as a box. [56:40] Jimmy: You can picture like the the poor guy who showed up in his Xanadu shirt who's like absolutely in love with Olivia Newton John and this is his favorite movie, and he shows up to this thing and is really disappointed by like how much they shit-talk the the movie. [56:55] Tommy: Yeah, exact exactly. [56:56] Jimmy: Like, because it is it's that thing, it's like when you really like something, it's not fun when everyone shits on it all the time.

You would think oh a safe space would be an adaptation, right? [57:05] Tommy: And then the adaptation also kind of shits on it. [57:07] Jimmy: Like, I think there's something there that I'm like, oh that's a bit of a shame. And I think it really comes out in the cast recording, so one of the things I find quite weird is they keep a lot of the like stage direction choices, yeah. [57:24] Tommy: Like or like vo I don't know the right word to describe this, but like vocal stage direction choices that make sense when you're seeing it, right? [57:32] Jimmy: But they keep a lot of them in the recording recording. [57:36] Tommy: Yeah, and it makes it not enjoyable to listen to, yeah. [57:41] Jimmy: Because these songs are just so they're just popping.

They have nothing to do with the action on stage. [57:48] Tommy: Right. [57:48] Jimmy: So if you were gonna listen to these songs, you would listen to them as pops, as good arrangements of pop songs, right? [57:56] Tommy: Um but when you've got uh, for example the the the phone box duet one, yeah, that suddenly I think so. [58:05] Jimmy: That's sure that's right. [58:07] Tommy: Um and is it that one that shins or maybe is it magic? [58:11] Jimmy: I can't, there's one of them anyway, and Kerry Butler ends it like going like or something like that. [58:16] Tommy: Right, do you know what do you know what I'm talking about? [58:18] Jimmy: Yeah, um and it's a bit like what's that? [58:23] Tommy: Yeah, like if you just listen to Cash Ground, which we know 90% of musical theater fans, that's how they find out about musicals.

[58:30] Jimmy: Um you'll be a bit like what's going on this that doesn't sound good. [58:34] Tommy: I was quite enjoying that song until then, like and I do think they are it's interesting that you bring this up because I I had this thought during the thing, they're that they're stuck in like this catch 22 where the music has very little to do with the action that's going on. [58:48] Jimmy: So how do you make interesting vocal choices? [58:50] Tommy: And a lot of times they make very jokey vocal choices that are very funny on stage because that's the only thing to keep it interesting, otherwise you're just watching a concert and that's not where we are. [59:05] Jimmy: Exactly. [59:06] Tommy: And because this is a parody of this show, they can't sing the songs in earnest, like the ballads can't be ballads without having a joke attached to it, um, be it visual or otherwise.

[59:18] Jimmy: Um and so in that vein, it's like uh, and we kind of come to our roadblock here because like, so what's the point in having these songs? [59:27] Tommy: Right, and the point in having these songs is that they're good songs and they're a poll and people expect them, but it And that's exactly and they do lampshade it, but they've struck the like the jukebox musical conundrum, right? [59:40] Jimmy: Totally. [59:41] Tommy: Now, again, interesting point, what they've done here, because they've introduced two new characters, these new characters need new songs. [59:49] Jimmy: Um so they've gone from ELO's back catalogue um and pulled in uh strange magic and uh evil women, yeah. [59:58] Tommy: Right?

[59:59] Jimmy: But great songs, and to be honest, if if you were making this a jukebox musical for ELO, yeah, it c actually it works well enough. [1:00:06] Tommy: Like in in the musical are two of the more plot-driven songs. [1:00:12] Jimmy: Yeah, they're the kind of the songs that work, yeah. [1:00:14] Tommy: Like do you know what I mean? [1:00:16] Jimmy: Um so I think like again, that's uh a little bit more of a jar. [1:00:26] Tommy: Yeah. [1:00:27] Jimmy: Um the uh the one that they sing in Mount Olympus, uh Have you never been mellow? [1:00:34] Tommy: Have you never been mellow? [1:00:35] Jimmy: Which is just an Olivia Newton John pop song, right? [1:00:38] Tommy: Just a classic Olivia Newton John ballad.

[1:00:40] Jimmy: The the comedy of it there is it's sung by Zeus. [1:00:43] Tommy: Yeah, and they and everyone and it's like they have to they have to write a whole scene just to get into the song, like yeah. [1:00:52] Jimmy: So and and again in that way I'm like as a musical is this something we should be saying, yeah, Charlotte Musical. [1:01:03] Tommy: Or is it something else? [1:01:06] Jimmy: Yeah, and I do wonder if like and our art form is so small, it is difficult to justify splintering it even more. [1:01:15] Tommy: Right because you end up with full categories that are just one or two things, and that's not a category. [1:01:19] Jimmy: Um but it does seem like there is and I and I wonder if this is my brain just justifying, you know, what we would deem more high art musical theater.

[1:01:30] Tommy: Not to be gate not to be gatekeepy, but that's the best way I can describe it. [1:01:33] Jimmy: Yeah. [1:01:34] Tommy: Versus the the jukeboxy toe tappy kind of musicals. [1:01:40] Jimmy: The commercial breaks. [1:01:42] Tommy: Um like but there is such a spectrum there too, because you get some you know, everything from Jersey Boys to Mamma Mia, um to this to all shook up, like these are all fit in that same category for me, but have such wild differences in how they go about bringing what I would consider musical theater traditions to the stage. [1:02:02] Jimmy: Yeah. [1:02:04] Tommy: Yeah, it's I don't I don't know, I just think this sits in a a different place from ever it isn't like if we were doing van diagrams, yeah.

[1:02:14] Jimmy: I don't know where I would put Xanadu. [1:02:16] Tommy: Yeah. [1:02:17] Jimmy: I would definitely Because it isn't it's not a jukebox musical. [1:02:20] Tommy: I think the addition of new songs would qualify it. [1:02:22] Jimmy: That plus hold on, I'll find the line. [1:02:25] Tommy: Um they lampshade it. [1:02:28] Jimmy: It's very funny joke. [1:02:30] Tommy: Um Kira says near the end. [1:02:33] Jimmy: Then I shall take the improbably popular art forms in each moment of time, the stage adaptation of the inferior cinematic offering, the musical of the box that is juke. [1:02:44] Tommy: That's the joke. [1:02:45] Jimmy: And I shall use them to remind mankind that there is something greater than wealth or fame, and that is the human experience rendered comprehensible through art.

[1:02:53] Tommy: Which is a noble goal and I think took a lot of thinking about to find a moral around this show. [1:02:59] Jimmy: Uh huh. [1:02:59] Tommy: And I uh and they did it. [1:03:01] Jimmy: And the fact that they're lampshading the, you know, music of the box of juke. [1:03:08] Tommy: I think they think it's a jukebox musical. [1:03:10] Jimmy: Exactly. [1:03:11] Tommy: But I think that's weird because it's not. [1:03:14] Jimmy: Yeah. [1:03:15] Tommy: Like, the only thing that it uh puts it into that argument is that they include two songs from ELO's back catalogue and an Olivia Newton John song. [1:03:24] Jimmy: Yeah. [1:03:24] Tommy: Like, that's the only thing that would then make it a jukebox musical.

[1:03:28] Jimmy: But this is like a weird. [1:03:29] Tommy: It is a weird hybrid. [1:03:30] Jimmy: Well, it is almost like also it's not I feel like we have had hybrids before. [1:03:36] Tommy: Sure. [1:03:36] Jimmy: Right? [1:03:37] Tommy: Of I ca I can't think of any right now. [1:03:39] Jimmy: But I'm sure there will have been. [1:03:41] Tommy: Technically, the the original Chicago has kind of a semblance of being a hybrid jukebox musical. [1:03:47] Jimmy: Um you lose it now in the contemporary productions because they've scrubbed this all off. [1:03:51] Tommy: But every number save for um class, and it's weird that that's the only one is a direct intimidation impersonation of a popular vaudeville performer.

[1:04:01] Jimmy: Um nearly one to one. [1:04:04] Tommy: Right, okay. [1:04:04] Jimmy: You lose that because, you know, how many popular vaudeville performers can you name these days? [1:04:08] Tommy: Um it's been kind of scrubbed out of the subsequent adaptations. [1:04:12] Jimmy: Um but it's the same sort of thing, right? [1:04:14] Tommy: There's a way to justify that as a jukebox musical of its time. [1:04:19] Jimmy: It is a blending of pre existing things. [1:04:21] Tommy: Certainly Kandornev wrote new stuff. [1:04:23] Jimmy: Uh-huh. [1:04:24] Tommy: But I think that's it, like it is still new co it's still new content. [1:04:27] Jimmy: It's not you're not just pulling from the back catalogue.

[1:04:30] Tommy: Because like I feel like another one that comes into this bubble is like Saturday Night Fever. [1:04:34] Jimmy: Sure. [1:04:34] Tommy: Um, which the musical is fully just an adaptation of the movie, and the movie has a soundtrack by the Bee Gees, but it's for the movie. [1:04:44] Jimmy: Um and in a similar way, the songs don't really create the words. [1:04:52] Tommy: But is this uh is this endemic of adaptations of movie musicals from the late 70s, early 80s, right? [1:04:58] Jimmy: Because like even, you know, Greece does it better, but only just um like it is better though. [1:05:08] Tommy: It is because hopelessly devoted to you is fully a story song. [1:05:12] Jimmy: Is the spoiler, absolutely.

[1:05:14] Tommy: Um, but like Summer Lovin' is a s come on, give Grease's credit. [1:05:19] Jimmy: Then Chang Chang Chang Changity Bop, like Yeah, it's a great finale. [1:05:24] Tommy: It's a lovely broad here's the theme, hooray, refriend. [1:05:28] Jimmy: What I what I'm saying is there is this brand of movie musicals of this time where the music in the show need barely relate to the plot, and so that's part of the style, and that is the underpinning of what a jukebox musical becomes. [1:05:45] Tommy: Like you need just the spark of an inspiration to start singing a song, and then now all of a sudden we're in the middle of Super Trooper and Mamma Mia. [1:05:53] Jimmy: I get yeah, I guess. [1:05:58] Tommy: I don't know, I just isn't that though.

[1:06:03] Jimmy: Yeah. [1:06:03] Tommy: You know what I mean? [1:06:04] Jimmy: Like it's not it is it's own like these songs were written for this purpose. [1:06:10] Tommy: Yes. [1:06:10] Jimmy: Yeah. [1:06:11] Tommy: And that is it's odd, but like you say, I think the writers think it's a jukebox musical. [1:06:16] Jimmy: Well, and the songs, and in some ways it is because like the cultness of the soundtrack uh surpassed the film that it became almost like its own standalone thing. [1:06:29] Tommy: God's record like uh Right. [1:06:32] Jimmy: It's like learning that um, you know, what if we and who knows this absolutely could happen, but we learn in 20 years that these twenty-five Lady Gaga songs actually all have a story that weaves through them that you never knew about before, and now here's the musical version of it, right?

[1:06:48] Tommy: I love that conspiracy. [1:06:50] Jimmy: Can we talk about that? [1:06:51] Tommy: Yeah. [1:06:51] Jimmy: But it would be as if that Lady Gaga movie had existed previously and we all had forgotten about it because it was terrible. [1:06:57] Tommy: Right, yeah. [1:06:57] Jimmy: And then needed a re-reminding. [1:07:00] Tommy: But we can't even say that because the Sand Lady songs don't mean anything to each other. [1:07:04] Jimmy: I know. [1:07:04] Tommy: They're they're like the original is a jukebox musical in and of itself in conceit at least, right? [1:07:10] Jimmy: In how mismatched the music is to the action. [1:07:14] Tommy: Yeah. [1:07:15] Jimmy: Um which complicates things even more. [1:07:18] Tommy: It does. [1:07:20] Jimmy: It's just what a fascinating what a fascinating little cornerstone in our musical theater world is Xanadu.

[1:07:27] Jimmy: Yeah. When it is also we don't have the benefit of there aren't a lot of movies that become cult classics because they're legitimately bad against their better intents, right?

[1:07:39] Tommy: Yeah. You've got Xanadu, you've got The Room, um, you know, you have other like big Razzie winners, but none that have reached like cult classic status in that kind of way as much.

[1:07:50] Jimmy: Certainly none. Certainly none that are as much of a musical as the OG Xanadu was.

[1:07:57] Tommy: Yeah, because the one that weirdly pop tender had was like Newsies, but I guess it wasn't so much of a flop.

[1:08:03] Jimmy: Right. It's not like you can't put Newsies in the same bank as The Room. It wasn't so bad that it's known for how bad it is.

[1:08:11] Tommy: Yeah. Um let me pull up worst picture Razzies. Um other nominations, popular nominations, early Annie, um, The Pirate Movie, which was the kind of recasting of Gilbert and Sullivan.

[1:08:24] Jimmy: I think we talked or of um uh Parts of Penzance.

[1:08:27] Tommy: Parts of Medzads. Um just scrolling through to see what other musicals there are.

[1:08:33] Jimmy: Not a lot. And I think some of these musicals are on here because they're musicals and people have bad opinions of musicals and they're judging it from a cinema lens, which is unfair.

[1:08:42] Tommy: Yeah. Um I mean like Evil Dead.

[1:08:46] Jimmy: Yeah, sure. But you know, but uh it's different.

[1:08:52] Tommy: Yeah. Oh, I guess Showgirls won in ninety five.

[1:08:55] Jimmy: Showgirls isn't a musical.

[1:08:57] Tommy: Oh, you're right. I'm thinking of Dreamgirls?

[1:09:01] Jimmy: Nope.

[1:09:02] Tommy: Shares in it.

[1:09:04] Jimmy: Burlesque. That is a musical that didn't have a stage adaptation beforehand.

[1:09:09] Tommy: But anyway, like Yes. Such delightfully specific conditions to create Xanadu the musical.

[1:09:18] Jimmy: Right, it's so and it is it does feel like its own thing because like it's not it's not so much of a parody that it you feel like you're a knight of Forbidden Broadway.

[1:09:29] Tommy: Right. Right. But it's also not so much in earnest that you're watching the film Zapda. Like there's so it it's a weird kind of power play between the two.

[1:09:39] Jimmy: The thought I had was like, if someone asked me before they saw the musical, like, do I do I need to watch the film? And I think it's one of the only ones where I don't quite know my answer.

[1:09:48] Tommy: I think my answer would be like if you want to, I think it'll be a perfectly enjoyable night without having seen the film.

[1:09:56] Jimmy: Fully. But you'll get a little more if you have seen the film, but then you have to watch the film, which is a an undertaking.

[1:10:03] Tommy: Right. But then it's yeah, because it's like you i there's like obviously there's lots of inside jokes and Easter eggs and things if you've if you've watched the film and are a fan of the film. There's plenty in there for you.

[1:10:13] Jimmy: But I think just to kind of grasp the like, why is this like weird, weirdly tongue-in-cheek, and why is this why does this feel like a parody? And I don't think it is.

[1:10:24] Tommy: Like that, I think that's what I'm trying to get at. Is it feels like it is one, even though it's it's not as just an adaptation.

[1:10:31] Jimmy: It does. I I wrote it down because it felt so true. It feels like children's theater. It feels like a bunch of giddy adults who know what they're doing enough, but like also enjoy messing around, or like, what if we just did Xanadu tomorrow and then just did it?

[1:10:48] Tommy: Right. Like really well, but it has that energy of Yeah, not Mickey and Judy, let's put on a show, but like we're gonna reenact it, you know, last night's episode of Glee during lunch today, because we're in middle school and that's how we pass the time.

[1:11:05] Jimmy: It's got that kind of vibe, yeah.

[1:11:07] Tommy: You're right. And it do you know what it has a kind of vibe of is pantomime.

[1:11:11] Jimmy: Yeah. Especially especially with the audience on stage and the lot of you know, that kind of you know, gym office mugging to the audience of like this thing.

[1:11:21] Tommy: Yep. Yep.

[1:11:22] Jimmy: Sometime moments of audience interaction, um, like Mary Testa and um Jackie Hoffman's characters are fully just the they're two pantomime characters.

[1:11:32] Tommy: Yeah, I mean like they fall out evil but they're not bad.

[1:11:35] Jimmy: Evil but not bad. You're you're you know, you have no sympathy for them, but you you aren't so delighted every time they're on stage.

[1:11:42] Tommy: Exactly, exactly. And um like I think a breaking down of I had this thought that is a specific that is what makes pantomime audience participation different from other kind of audience interaction.

[1:11:57] Jimmy: Like, say say this is not Great Comet.

[1:12:00] Tommy: Right.

[1:12:05] Jimmy: Um, but there is a not to put down Mimi Lean's incredible way.

[1:12:10] Tommy: Absolutely not.

[1:12:11] Jimmy: Um but there is in Panto and things like it, not only is audience participation a part of it, the meta aspect of audience participation is also a part of the show.

[1:12:27] Tommy: Like not just that individual audience participation moments happen, but that there is the danger that they always could happen is is a specific part of the show.

[1:12:39] Jimmy: I don't have the quite words to talk around what I think I'm trying to say.

[1:12:42] Tommy: I know what you mean. I do know what you mean.

[1:12:45] Jimmy: Like you you should in the same way that like scares my dad about Cirque du Soleil. Um like there's gonna be audience participation. Get ready, expect it.

[1:12:54] Tommy: You could pull a joke in the show where like you get so close and then don't participate with the audience and that would be funny.

[1:13:00] Jimmy: Right. Um and that's a part of it whereas in other genres audience participation becomes a fourth wall break, becomes a stepping out of the story.

[1:13:14] Tommy: Whereas in Xanadu it is so woven in that it wouldn't be the same show without audience participation.

[1:13:24] Jimmy: Yeah. I I I think you're totally right there.

[1:13:28] Tommy: It's weird.

[1:13:29] Jimmy: It's a weird thing is.

[1:13:31] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:13:32] Jimmy: Yeah.

[1:13:33] Tommy: And is that because the film is so weird?

[1:13:36] Jimmy: I mean, I also think it's a weird time, you know, we're two thousand seven on Broadway, we're just kinda recovering from the dark times, we're just post Wicked. Um, you know, we're uh Broadway's kinda getting its feet again.

[1:13:50] Tommy: Um which gives it more room to experiment with weird stuff, while also we're seeing the new Wedding Singer, Jersey Boys, um, you know, spat of popular adaptations and jukebox music.

[1:14:02] Jimmy: Spamalot, Spamalot. Um so like all all of those factors together give you a perfect experimentation of like, okay, we should find something popular to adapt, but also we can be confident enough that it can be a little out there.

[1:14:16] Tommy: What do we pay?

[1:14:17] Jimmy: Uh-huh.

[1:14:18] Tommy: Probably Xanadu, you're all that matters.

[1:14:24] Jimmy: I lie on anything you say.

[1:14:46] Tommy: Sunday and soul.

[1:14:48] Jimmy: Suddenly Who is our emotion?

[1:14:52] Tommy: And ready to say the dances.

[1:15:12] Jimmy: So here's a question. Let's go talk to the landlord of the city.

[1:15:17] Tommy: Always very fascinated with Broadway and the internet.

[1:15:21] Jimmy: Mm-hmm.

[1:15:21] Tommy: Sure.

[1:15:22] Jimmy: Right. Is it possible for Xanadu to happen and be successful now?

[1:15:28] Tommy: The movie or the musical?

[1:15:30] Jimmy: The musical.

[1:15:31] Tommy: It's a good question. As it is.

[1:15:35] Jimmy: I don't think it would be as popular now.

[1:15:39] Tommy: I agree. I think part of it would be we have a different set of expectations of Broadway right now.

[1:15:46] Jimmy: Yeah, yes, that's true. Um, you know, I also don't think right now there doesn't seem to be a big wanting for even just fluffy fluffy pieces.

[1:15:56] Tommy: The fluffiest we've gotten in recent years is kind of the Hello, Dolly! revival.

[1:16:00] Jimmy: And even that still ends with like uh, you know, it only takes a moment and some romantic uh uh uh like we we still get a nice fluffy resolve, not like Yeah, and it's still but it's still high Broadway, do you know what I mean in terms of spectacles?

[1:16:13] Tommy: Right, exactly. But like I don't think even and this is not a great comparison either, but like we're not gonna see a funny thing happen on the way to the forum hit the stage either.

[1:16:22] Jimmy: Like out and out, you know, that like farcical levels of humor. Um I don't I'm trying to think of other shows that are that don't have a hint of sentimentality in them in the way that Xanadu doesn't really have a hint of sentimentality.

[1:16:40] Tommy: Like do they fall in love at the end? Who cares? Like we you know.

[1:16:42] Jimmy: Yeah, exactly.

[1:16:44] Tommy: Um like I guess you get the kind of Wedding Singer-esque stuff. Um, but even that's But even uh it does still have a bit of a you know, I mean you still care for that love story and the Wedding Singer.

[1:16:56] Jimmy: I just I think the reason I asked the question is because um it so there's a lot of like internet stuff that went alongside this. I don't know if you've seen any of it.

[1:17:04] Tommy: Oh yes.

[1:17:05] Jimmy: I have I have memories of it and not understanding it then and only vaguely understanding it now.

[1:17:11] Tommy: Exact same, like because I I didn't s I never watched the full thing because I guess in that time I wasn't I didn't believe in episodic watching on YouTube. It was just like this has John DeLuca Jr. in it, so I'm gonna watch that.

[1:17:24] Jimmy: Um yeah, completely the same thing and then coming back and then be like, wait, that was that thing.

[1:17:29] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:17:29] Jimmy: Um so in the run-up to Tony's uh they had uh this fictional child producer called Cubby Bernstein, um who uh was basically like the surefire hit to get you a Tony.

[1:17:46] Tommy: Um and uh he came and started working on Xanadu's Tony campaign.

[1:17:52] Jimmy: Um and it was publicity for from Xanadu, like that is what it was. But they never it was like it it it was it was er it was viral marketing when viral marketing was new.

[1:18:08] Tommy: It's like look it's like Lonely Girl 15 style, like yeah, I don't know if this is real or I don't know if it's not, yeah, who's who's producing this because it was produced by this child, right?

[1:18:17] Jimmy: I mean it was on his channel, right? It wasn't you know on the Broadway.com official it's a very clever concept.

[1:18:26] Tommy: I think looking back on it, I mean it it's wacky and wild and Xanadu is the place where it deserved to happen.

[1:18:33] Jimmy: Right, you know, knowing seeing the even lackluster success that all internet promotion seems to have for Broadway stalwart Broadway audiences.

[1:18:43] Tommy: Yeah, it seems terribly misguided for 2007. Um, you know, uh maybe if it was better, it would have sold more tickets, but it's also not related to the show, so you don't get the satisfaction of the thing you watch online paying off when you go see the thing because it's so wildly different.

[1:19:02] Jimmy: See, that's interesting. I think it is really good. Like, I think it sells the show really well.

[1:19:07] Tommy: I think it's really good. I don't think I don't think anyone on YouTube was like, oh, gotta go buy my ticket now, you know, like do you think?

[1:19:19] Jimmy: I well, you're making me question that.

[1:19:22] Tommy: Because because right, because think of the other things a bit I again, this is one of the reasons I wanted to discuss this was because like at that time, yeah, right, early, early YouTube days, right? Before there was a a Broadway.com scene on YouTube, before there was a Broadway scene on YouTube, you know what I mean?

[1:19:39] Jimmy: This was pre-bootleg days, not pre-bootlegs, but pre-bootlegs on YouTube. Um it was a really interesting because we had had like the Spring Awakening vlogs, um we had had trying to think what else was going on.

[1:19:57] Tommy: Were submissions only at that time?

[1:19:59] Jimmy: That was late. I mean, this is we're talking years ago.

[1:20:03] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:20:05] Jimmy: What in the Heights had a little bit of like again kind of vlog style presence.

[1:20:10] Tommy: Yeah, but we're we're so long before, you know, hand for ham uh daily video vlogs of Lynn outside of the door.

[1:20:18] Jimmy: Produced produced content by a network, you know, Broadway.com like it was in it just felt very fringy.

[1:20:24] Tommy: The one that I always think back on is the um Spelling Bee video campaign.

[1:20:31] Jimmy: I don't remember that.

[1:20:32] Tommy: They did. You must remember this. It's the best. Um so it was uh Jesse Tyler Ferguson and the girl who played Logan.

[1:20:39] Jimmy: Okay.

[1:20:40] Tommy: Made like vlogs of their own life fully improvised.

[1:20:44] Jimmy: As in character.

[1:20:46] Tommy: In character. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:20:56] Jimmy: Yeah.

[1:20:57] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:20:57] Jimmy: Do you know what I mean? Like other world stuff. Um and I I kinda love that because actually in the same way like those improv things really fit what Spelling Bee is all about because it's a very improv heavy show and uh it's wackadoo and stupid and it's a good look into these characters.

[1:21:18] Tommy: I feel like for Xanadu it kind of works because it's this weird like tongue-in-cheek send-up of a thing. Do you know that isn't fully a parody that is fully a parody but it's still setting up this idea. This is the era we're in you know what does predate Cubby Bernstein? The title of show show um exactly that's exactly the kind of theatric like uh digital Broadway theatrical world we're in right then like we're just about to get side by side by Susan Blackwell that's just on the horizon.

[1:21:54] Jimmy: And I do I wonder if we're gonna do like a micro unpacking of uh uh uh you know video viral marketing for musical theatre online it's a good thesis there's because it's it it mirrors the changes in the internet itself but at this point it was still like a wild west we'd never have a Cubby Bernstein today, my god like no not so which is a shame.

[1:22:19] Tommy: And it is actually because it's funny. It's good. It's good content. Like it it's original and entertaining. But it's not, you know, click baity.

[1:22:31] Jimmy: Yeah.

[1:22:31] Tommy: Uh like oh celebrities to the front.

[1:22:35] Jimmy: Yeah.

[1:22:35] Tommy: Like all you know I mean it was just a high concept and like television. Love them to death, but you could take any nowadays Broadway.com like back, you know, whoever's on the show takes the camera and once a week gives you some bit of content about their show that's happening.

[1:22:49] Jimmy: Right. You could put all of them side by side and you'll get the like, oh here's my dressing room. Oh look who came today. I assure you one have always wondered how the this works on stage. Take a look at this cost. Oh, we're taking photos, right? Like same stuff all the time.

[1:23:05] Tommy: To the point where I stop what I've stopped watching that. I don't care about that. Do you know I mean I can't remember the last one I kind of really really tuned into. But they did they decline from being like, oh this is cool I'm seeing you know uh Ramin Caram Lewes to like oh you guys have really been wanting to see this person again so we're gonna do an interview with them.

[1:23:30] Jimmy: Right.

[1:23:31] Tommy: Oh you really we'll do some Q and A's again and it is it's just all the same kind of like and it is fine for the fans who want to you know I mean if you're really into the thing and you're really you're really looking for all that content in there. But there's ways to do that that also can be creative that that aren't just like here's my tenth vlog put putting on makeup exact but it's like I just I can't see anyone having that idea of like we're gonna do this scripted series alongside our show.

[1:24:05] Jimmy: Like no one would have the time for that now.

[1:24:07] Tommy: Yeah, maybe we'll get there. I I certainly think, you know, the the viral nature of Beetlejuice has changed producers' hearts and minds, and then you know, layer on top are gratitusical. Um like pe the I think it would be easier these days to convince the imagined, you know, old timey producer folk that, like, hey, digital content has an important place and it's gonna get a little weird for a second.

[1:24:31] Jimmy: Mm-hmm.

[1:24:32] Tommy: And like Yeah, I hope so. I guess in a way, like the Beatle Juice TikToks have a similar kind of vibe because they are still very human, they're not produced.

[1:24:42] Jimmy: Yeah, and they're they're homegrown and and and that sort of thing. But that's the I mean that's the digital marker's poison, right? How do you make something that appears homegrown?

[1:24:47] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:24:50] Jimmy: Already you're making it so it's planned, right? Um it's it's impossible.

[1:24:56] Tommy: Yeah. I don't know. I just think there's so much like there's so many good things that could come out and I think would make me respect a show a lot more. Um because I don't I actually think these little videos really contribute to my liking of the Xanadu musical, like the stage musical.

[1:25:14] Jimmy: Um because I'm like, oh like respect.

[1:25:17] Tommy: Right. Like you know, I mean like this is a lot of fun. This is good.

[1:25:19] Jimmy: Yeah. Uh when I do wonder, I guess it becomes uh now I'm putting my like tech director hat on. It does become a partially philosophical question. Like we've discussed the truism that like the moment you think that you want to go see the show is when the show begins.

[1:25:35] Tommy: And right and anything that happens after that affects how you react to the show. We talked about this in in comet, of course, when with uh Mimi Lynn's great backstage walk onto the stage and the whole uh lobby entrance.

[1:25:47] Jimmy: Um but like that it t that means poster design, that's commercial design, that's you know, how easy Ticketmaster or whatever it is to use, like all of these things are are a part of the story that you're experiencing with the show.

[1:26:00] Tommy: And I guess there are two philosophical sides to that. Should it then should everything come from the heart of the show? Should everything be intrinsically tied to whatever your thesis message of the show is, right? From your poster design to, you know, your lobby design, or is it okay if some of those experiences are detached from the show, like Covey Bernstein?

[1:26:26] Jimmy: Um like, you know, some of the parody videos that Avenue Q made.

[1:26:31] Tommy: Um right? Um and I guess certainly it depends on the show.

[1:26:35] Jimmy: Um but I've I had never thought about it in that dichotomy before that there's kind of a choice you have to make there. You know, in the way that marketing, you know, uh Book of Mormon uh which is a show that absolutely could have gone more the Xanadu Avenue Q route doesn't.

[1:26:50] Tommy: Totally strict like you'll never see uh a uh production photo of their Africa set and that's on purpose.

[1:26:58] Jimmy: Nope.

[1:26:58] Tommy: Um like that's their their marketing is so strict with that show because they want to hide some of it.

[1:27:03] Jimmy: Um and they totally could have gone the opposite yeah you'd never see it with any of the Disney shows.

[1:27:08] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:27:09] Jimmy: Yeah.

[1:27:10] Tommy: Um so I don't know it's I think I think you're on to something when you say in the internet world would this be different you know maybe not about Xanadu but I do think it is like we talked about this in Wicked. It's harder it's harder to keep your show secrets these days so maybe you should just abandon any desire to do so true.

[1:27:32] Jimmy: Trust that people will be able to feel the thing of surprise in the moment because you did the art well, even if they knew what was going to happen coming in.

[1:27:44] Tommy: Yeah, I guess that is kind of what we've lost, isn't it?

[1:27:47] Jimmy: Yeah.

[1:27:48] Tommy: And for for all sorts of reasons. Not just the internet, but that the art form is more popular and more widespread, and there's been a narrowing of what is popular. Like everyone knows the chandelier is gonna fall on Phantom of the Opera.

[1:27:59] Jimmy: Um, you know, in part like I'm sure the first time that happened, it was amazing and startling, and you know, it's not anymore.

[1:28:08] Tommy: Um, you know, and like this all backfired with Spider-Man that they were trying to keep all these effects secret, but then people kept hurting, and then people kept getting more curious about the whole thing.

[1:28:17] Jimmy: Um you know.

[1:28:19] Tommy: I I think this all I don't know the thesis that ties all these thoughts together, but there's something there.

[1:28:25] Jimmy: They're all uh they're all bad together.

[1:28:26] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:28:27] Jimmy: Yeah.

[1:28:29] Tommy: Hey, either way, freaking Xana do mate. Good old time. I was not expecting. I was not expecting the stage musical to be as enjoyable as it was.

[1:28:39] Jimmy: Yeah.

[1:28:40] Tommy: I'm gonna say it though. I still prefer the film.

[1:28:49] Jimmy: Oh man.

[1:28:50] Tommy: That's nuts.

[1:28:52] Jimmy: Oh, I just want to manifest something. Because it's it hasn't manifested itself since the last time. So come on, this is Canning Ortega and um Douglas Carter Bean. Right? We know that they can work together on stage musicals. Hurry up with two on food. Hurry up.

[1:29:12] Tommy: That's all I wanted to say. Thank you.

[1:29:18] Jimmy: Xana do live.

[1:29:19] Tommy: There we go. Xana do live television.

[1:29:24] Jimmy: No.

[1:29:24] Tommy: You don't think so?

[1:29:27] Jimmy: I don't think so.

[1:29:29] Tommy: No, too small. Be cheap.

[1:29:34] Jimmy: It would be very cheap.

[1:29:36] Tommy: No.

[1:29:38] Jimmy: Get some No, no. Because no, no.

[1:29:45] Tommy: No.

[1:29:46] Jimmy: No.

[1:29:47] Tommy: No.

[1:29:47] Jimmy: It wouldn't work.

[1:29:48] Tommy: The songs aren't good enough.

[1:29:50] Jimmy: Uh.

[1:29:50] Tommy: As as musical theater songs.

[1:29:52] Jimmy: Yeah.

[1:29:53] Tommy: Right? Because those live musicals, right? Need to have like songs.

[1:30:00] Jimmy: Yeah, that's fair.

[1:30:01] Tommy: Like the truth zoom in on the face and yeah.

[1:30:07] Jimmy: Like they're not gonna be all about like magic.

[1:30:10] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:30:11] Jimmy: That's fair. It like the the book.

[1:30:15] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[1:30:16] Jimmy: Yes.

[1:30:17] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:30:17] Jimmy: But the full thing itself.

[1:30:19] Tommy: No.

[1:30:19] Jimmy: And that's but that's why it doesn't work.

[1:30:21] Tommy: Yeah, no, you're fair.

[1:30:22] Jimmy: Okay, let me pitch you this. The room, the musical. On stage. Why hasn't that happened yet?

[1:30:28] Tommy: I mean, like, we know for a fact there is someone in like Wisconsin who's written Zoom the musical.

[1:30:33] Jimmy: Yeah.

[1:30:36] Tommy: Uh you know, I mean, like, for sure that exists somewhere as a weird YouTube parody kind of thing.

[1:30:42] Jimmy: But also, why hasn't that?

[1:30:45] Tommy: I know.

[1:30:45] Jimmy: Because it I was running through like what are, you know, those those bad movies. Like what are, you know, what are we gonna song spot? What are we gonna find?

[1:30:52] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:30:56] Jimmy: But first, two one three, thanks for everything, Julian Barr.

[1:31:01] Tommy: And then do the room. You hear that, Kenny Ortega?

[1:31:28] Jimmy: Now that I'm here.

[1:31:30] Tommy: Now that you're there.

[1:31:35] Jimmy: Now that I'm here.

[1:31:37] Tommy: Now that you're doing Well, Tommy, they call it Santa.

[1:32:00] Jimmy: Santa. I do every club I walk into from now on, especially once the bad times are over, I want to be greeted by Gene Kelly on Rollerskates, turning around, smiling and gesturing to the title of the club.

[1:32:15] Tommy: He was so good on those roller skates.

[1:32:19] Jimmy: He's an older man. What a man.

[1:32:22] Tommy: Anyway, enough about him. Enough about that. Tommy, what's next?

[1:32:25] Jimmy: I have a quiz question. Buckle your seatbelt. Please tell.

[1:32:28] Tommy: It's gonna be a bumpy night. Um it was a complete accident that this musical and a film with the exact same name and premise premiered during the same year. What show?

[1:32:46] Jimmy: I don't know, but if you would like to get in touch with us, you absolutely can and should. Our Twitter and Instagram are both at J-I-M-A-N-D-T-O-M-I-C. That is Jim and Tomic.

[1:32:55] Tommy: Um, or you can drop us an email if you'd like to go long form on our website, Jim and Tomic.com. We also have merch and a Discord. If you head over to the show notes, uh you can find the invite for the Discord and the links for the merch on our website.

[1:33:09] Jimmy: Um if you're heading for the Discord link, uh get there right now because it expires soon. But don't worry, there's there's always more. There will always be more.

[1:33:18] Tommy: Um yes, and um while you're on our website, uh if you would like to uh financially support the show, um that'd be very lovely. Uh we have a Patreon there that you can check out um that also hosts our uh video podcast that we call Last Call.

[1:33:36] Jimmy: Um where we have some good old fashioned fun. This time we um bitch about a certain unnamed YouTuber.

[1:33:44] Tommy: Um and talk about trash bags, both very and talk about compost.

[1:33:50] Jimmy: Uh but most of all it really helps when you tell your friends about our show. Thank you uh uh for all of you who who tell other people about our weird wacky musical theater podcast.

[1:34:00] Tommy: Yeah. It's very, very nice. And hey, thank you very much for listening.

[1:34:05] Jimmy: Cheers.

[1:34:06] Tommy: Cheers.