This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Tommy: Do you know there's Fiddler on the Roof Junior?

[0:03] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That's so sh you ha and like pic picture seventh grade Tevya and eighth grade Golda and eighth grade she's gonna be like two feet taller than him, and he's gonna have this high-pitched voice, be wearing braces.

[0:20] Tommy: Um, you know, a fiddler on the roof sounds crazy.

[0:23] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: No it's fun.

[0:24] Tommy: Right?

[0:26] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And like gestures up to like the tiniest like uh a violinist with like a three-quarter violin screeching out like to the point where I wanna do it now.

[0:42] Tommy: Yeah, absolutely.

[0:43] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: With like the youngest possible face.

[0:45] Tommy: Yes.

[0:46] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I mean, the worst part is they the the things that are cut, the one I remember is all of uh the dream and Frumacera is cut from the junior version.

[0:54] Tommy: Oh, come on, that's it.

[0:56] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Such a shame such a shame.

[0:58] Tommy: Kids would love to do that.

[1:00] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right?

[1:02] Tommy: It'd be so good.

[1:03] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And like, you know, cut do you love me instead.

[1:07] Tommy: You don't need like a seventh and eighth grader being like Do you love me?

[1:13] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: For 45 years, I've washed your clouds.

[1:19] Tommy: Somebody get us another drink!

[1:21] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Welcome to Jim and Tomic's musical theater happy hour.

[1:25] Tommy: No, keep that going.

[1:26] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That was a good one.

[1:27] Tommy: I like that.

[1:28] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I'm Tommy!

[1:29] Tommy: And I'm Jimmy!

[1:31] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like fun side cake, is what we're going for there.

[1:33] Tommy: And this is the only musical theater podcast.

[1:36] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I don't know why I'm making my with white Zinfandel and musty costume smell.

[1:41] Tommy: Here we tear apart your favorite shows, muddle them together with a shot of buffoonery, and bore you a refreshing glass of musical theater conversation.

[1:51] Tommy: What are you drinking today, Jimmy?

[1:53] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I'm drinking pissed.

[2:05] Tommy: Huge huge disclaimer, we are not actually high.

[2:08] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um we're not, but we're getting that pressure.

[2:11] Tommy: I don't know if we're ever gonna be able to convince people that.

[2:12] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Jimmy, you have a quiz question for us.

[2:14] Tommy: It's illegal for me to be high in the UK.

[2:16] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I would never do such a thing.

[2:17] Tommy: There you go.

[2:19] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Uh yes, I do have a quiz question, Thomas.

[2:22] Tommy: You're right.

[2:23] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, that was me being anti-high.

[2:26] Tommy: Um okay.

[2:28] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: So I'm not actually drinking piss.

[2:30] Tommy: That's a horrible thing.

[2:33] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: For some.

[2:33] Tommy: Some yuck no yums.

[2:35] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I don't I don't yuck no yums.

[2:36] Tommy: I just mean as like a nice refresher.

[2:38] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I'm not gonna have a glass of.

[2:39] Tommy: That's true.

[2:39] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Not as like uh as you put.

[2:41] Tommy: There's a time and a place.

[2:42] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um the original theatrical director of this stage musical would go on to direct not only its movie adaptation, but also such great hits as Paul Blart Molkop one and Paul Blart Molkop 2.

[3:00] Tommy: What show?

[3:03] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Reefer Madness.

[3:06] Tommy: Reefer Madness.

[3:13] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Oh, so mad.

[3:17] Tommy: See the kids, precious kids.

[3:20] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yes, the heads are on the chopping block, and someone's got to dare to take a stand.

[3:28] Tommy: Can't ignore any more.

[3:30] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It could be your son or daughter with a deadly stick of reefer in the hand.

[3:37] Tommy: Heading straight for Reefer Madness, Reefer Madness.

[3:41] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Reefer Madness, Reefer Madness, Save our kids.

[3:46] Tommy: Late as a socialist.

[3:48] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It slithers up our shores.

[3:51] Tommy: Turning all our children to cool against animals.

[3:56] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Smoky fold-up e-bill bears the choking stench of sim.

[4:01] Tommy: It burrows like a weevil under Kender Christian skin.

[4:07] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Reefer Madness!

[4:09] Tommy: Reefer!

[4:10] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I love that.

[4:10] Tommy: I want to do one of those radio shows.

[4:13] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Well I don't know what to say.

[4:15] Tommy: We don't have any.

[4:19] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Oh my god, yeah, WrestleMania happened.

[4:23] Tommy: I don't know any more than that.

[4:25] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: What a bizarre energy we've begun this podcast.

[4:27] Tommy: This is really strange.

[4:28] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Also, we've been speaking for like over an hour.

[4:31] Tommy: Not had anything like this.

[4:33] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: No.

[4:33] Tommy: Prior to that.

[4:34] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: We just get very excited when it comes to the podcast.

[4:37] Tommy: Reefer Madness has music by Dan Studney and lyrics and book by Kevin Murphy.

[4:42] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: They do indeed.

[4:43] Tommy: Um it is uh it's a non-Broadway moment, so um, we premiered over in LA um conveniently um in 1998, and uh it opened off Broadway in 2001.

[4:57] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Sub productions over here in the UK, I think in 2009, it's been in Australia.

[5:02] Tommy: And then it had a film adaptation in 2005, which you should absolutely watch.

[5:08] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Very much so.

[5:09] Tommy: Great cast, great film.

[5:11] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: We will talk about it.

[5:13] Tommy: Um, but hey Jimmy, you live in Colorado.

[5:17] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Tell us about Reefer Madness.

[5:19] Tommy: We're it's I people have such a bizarre opinion about what Kapot is like in Colorado.

[5:24] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um I don't know what that is.

[5:26] Tommy: Why are these beautiful green leaves?

[5:29] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I don't know why I'm doing this Mickey Mouse character.

[5:32] Tommy: I like it.

[5:32] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I like our like Mickey Mouse Hulk Hogan uh blend comedy vaudeville duo we've come up with here.

[5:39] Tommy: Um so Reefer Madness, uh at least the uh film version, which I think has become mostly the licensable version now.

[5:46] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's gone through a couple iterations, but it is uh a uh a direct take on a nineteen thirty-six uh shock and exploitation film uh about the perils of marijuana.

[6:00] Tommy: Um the musical is framed it has a framing device around it where there is this narrator who has brought this film to a school in the 1930s to demonstrate to a group of parents here's why you have to watch out for pot, because it's gonna destroy your kids' lives.

[6:15] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um and then in uh beginning to tell them about this, a bunch of zombie children start attacking uh the parents, uh foretelling the bizarre wildness that is to come in this show.

[6:27] Tommy: Um then we zoom into the the movie that is being shown, which tells the story of Jimmy Harper, uh fine upstanding young boy of middle America, uh, who uh gets swept up into the reefer drug menace.

[6:41] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um and the whole thing is presented as this like super sarcastic take on um uh, you know, uh political exploitation and how uh different scapegoats, uh the primary one in this one being marijuana, are used by uh nefarious types to kind of distort people's view of reality and uh uh blame inequity on.

[7:05] Tommy: Um there's uh all sorts of hints of, you know, how uh this is a uh hallmark of racism of the time, of some classism of the time um and that is just a you know frickin' lie um but it's told through you know a musical theater pot hallucination um jimmy gets swept up in uh uh the the pothouse of Jack and May and who's the other girl um Sally Sally uh and Ralph the Stoner college kid one of my favorite characters we watch this a lot in college um and very often my roommate and I at certain times would look at each other goes I need the room which is a direct quote from Ralph in this movie.

[7:50] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That's like one of those movie quotes that no one ever does but uh Jimmy's life spirals um as he uh descends more deeper and deeper into his uh pot addiction um uh eventually leading him to accidentally kill an old man uh he gets framed for um uh murdering his girlfriend um and uh is uh put on death row only to be saved by May and President Roosevelt hooray um and then uh they celebrate with a good old book burning uh and uh then the musical ends.

[8:29] Tommy: Also there's zombies and an orgy and Jesus let's not forget about Jesus.

[8:34] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Jesus is very important, very significant.

[8:37] Tommy: Singing clams um this the show has everything.

[8:41] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[8:42] Tommy: It truly truly does um well no time like the present tea.

[8:48] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Debonian.

[8:52] Tommy: Hooray!

[8:53] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I do have a better Mickey impression than this.

[8:56] Tommy: Hop on my segue!

[8:58] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Okay!

[8:59] Tommy: Can't wait to read the end new!

[9:01] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I can't either, but I'm sure it turns out real clean and roll.

[9:12] Tommy: They have a baby.

[9:16] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That's probably the way the play is gonna teach the torches how to burn real bright.

[9:27] Tommy: Hanging like a jewel upon the cheek of night.

[9:31] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Hark what light three on the window friends here will be future spouses for the play on both our houses in roll.

[9:41] Tommy: Shakespeare!

[9:45] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Oh G Woolkers.

[9:48] Tommy: I don't think he ever says G.

[9:49] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Willakers, does he?

[9:50] Tommy: I think he says G.

[9:51] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Willakers, I think.

[9:51] Tommy: He probably has a phrase, hasn't he?

[9:53] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: He has.

[9:54] Tommy: I bet you he does.

[9:55] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[9:56] Tommy: Oh, Pluto.

[9:59] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That was banjo.

[10:00] Tommy: That was a flawless.

[10:01] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That was a great banjo.

[10:02] Tommy: That's the only thing Banjo ever says.

[10:05] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: No.

[10:06] Tommy: Uh I've just discovered I did an incredible banjo impression.

[10:11] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: This is the best podcast.

[10:13] Tommy: Anyway, so this show.

[10:17] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um so what I will say for starters, I really am not used to hearing my name so much.

[10:24] Tommy: Hmm, fair.

[10:25] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And it it's off-putting.

[10:26] Tommy: I don't have one of those names that you know is a rare name.

[10:31] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right.

[10:31] Tommy: Jimmy?

[10:33] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[10:34] Tommy: Like, we've got Millie.

[10:36] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: We've got Reefer Madness.

[10:39] Tommy: I guess that's fair.

[10:40] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I mean, it's it is.

[10:41] Tommy: Do you know other people in the UK named Jimmy?

[10:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I know one other person.

[10:48] Tommy: Fascinating.

[10:48] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like my middle name is James, my dad's name is Jim.

[10:51] Tommy: Yeah, I mean, there's James, there's Jim, there's Jamie.

[10:55] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You know, I know more I know more jocks than I do Jimmy's, and that's one of our Scottishisms.

[11:00] Tommy: There's like we also have Hey Mish over here, which is another form of James.

[11:03] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: But Jimmy.

[11:04] Tommy: Yeah.

[11:05] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like Jimmy in Scotland is like uh like K U Jimmy.

[11:11] Tommy: Like it's just uh common name for any male, like that kind of thing.

[11:15] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right.

[11:16] Tommy: Well, and that's that's why these these names get used in um in in this kind of character in this particular type of musical.

[11:23] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Jimmy, Tommy, Bobby, like Billy, Billy, yeah, because generically boy.

[11:29] Tommy: In the original source material 1936 film, he is called Billy.

[11:34] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Jimmy is Jimmy's Mary's brother.

[11:36] Tommy: Okay.

[11:37] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: In the original film.

[11:38] Tommy: I wonder it's it's always fun when the name change happens to figure out why.

[11:42] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: My money would be on listen to Jesus Jimmy.

[11:44] Tommy: Mm-hmm.

[11:46] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: 100%.

[11:47] Tommy: A hundred percent.

[11:48] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, so this show, you know, we're describing it as this, you know, uh shock film political statement take, but I Reefer Madness is a very well constructed musical.

[12:01] Tommy: Absolutely.

[12:02] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Absolutely.

[12:04] Tommy: Um so uh all balls out of the barrel, being honest here.

[12:07] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um I didn't know it at all.

[12:09] Tommy: Um for reasons when we start talking about weed, we'll we'll discover.

[12:14] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, but it was not one ever on my radar, and I was never really that interested in in listening to it.

[12:18] Tommy: And I'm so glad they did, because Jesus Christ, it was so enjoyable, and I was so surprised, particularly um at the writing.

[12:27] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, it's very clever writing.

[12:28] Tommy: So tell me more, like what was your watching experience like?

[12:31] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I've been like I've probably watched Reefer Madness as a musical more than many other musicals.

[12:37] Tommy: Yeah.

[12:37] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[12:38] Tommy: I can see that.

[12:39] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And I'm just so curious what it's like to watch for the first time.

[12:43] Tommy: Like fresh eyes.

[12:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um so I listened to it first.

[12:45] Tommy: I listened to the um cast recording first before I watched the film.

[12:49] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Okay.

[12:50] Tommy: Um and but even just on the cast recording, I was like, this is really good.

[12:55] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like just in terms of construction of harmonies, lyrically, I was like, this is fantastic, and you could reasonably follow the story.

[13:03] Tommy: Yeah.

[13:03] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um especially having seen 'cause the first thing I seen of this was the uh 1936.

[13:08] Tommy: Yeah.

[13:08] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um so I knew well, you know what was going on.

[13:11] Tommy: Great.

[13:12] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um so yeah, but then so watching the film um was just so enjoy like it was like hairspray levels of enjoyment.

[13:23] Tommy: Yeah.

[13:24] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You know what I mean?

[13:25] Tommy: Just that like proper glee and not in a um Xanadu way where it's like this is nonsense amazing.

[13:32] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That was the 1936.

[13:33] Tommy: Right.

[13:34] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You know, I mean this is not as a video. But this was like h this is extremely high quality, and yeah, I was like, I would easily watch this again.

[13:41] Tommy: Yeah.

[13:42] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I mean it was just it was pitched so well.

[13:44] Tommy: It's so it's so well pitching.

[13:46] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's also just a great m like it is a I would say one of the best constructed movie musicals I've ever seen. Um like cinematically so um in it like just some of the effortless ways. I think of like the five and dime dance number and how they're able to to frame that and use it as a story moment. Um, you know, all of the uh uh like it does things that I wish other movie musicals would do like it'll take even just um during uh Mary Mary Lane um Jimmy and Mary at the beginning of the song have like a little dance number out on their patio there and like they do the thing well that other movie musicals do poorly of like framing like here's gonna be a dance moment and we're gonna frame it like a stage dance so you have something to get into but not for so long that you're gonna get sick of it.

[14:36] Tommy: Um and then the rest is filmed mostly like a movie but still with I don't know like a theatrical mentality to it that suits the material very well.

[14:45] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah um yeah yeah yeah like most of the sets have an audience side that they level leverage for the most part um but they still will break the hundred and eighty degree rule a lot um like it's just it's just a great watch it really is totally totally um well we're gonna go into the movie a bit more fair in a bit so we'll we'll put a pen on that and we'll focus just on the the stage show um which uh so I've never I've never done it I've never been in it um but a friend of mine uh has done it and she said like to this day it still says the the most fun she's ever had oh I'm sure um on a stage and it it makes total sense like it's it is so wacky and you just get to because it is again because it's all so heightened you just get to go boss the wall and in a similar way to things like you're in time things like Bat Boy um where and again ironically these B movie musicals.

[15:45] Tommy: Yeah, like even like Little Shop.

[15:48] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah. Like it's it's that level of you can be ridiculous because the source material is often, you know what I mean, so nonsensical, just mad.

[16:00] Tommy: But often these times these shows are really well constructed.

[16:04] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah. Are really high quality. Well, and I do think there's something to 'cause the all the all those shows you named do follow an arc where then they like punch you in the gut somewhere near the end of Act Two. Um where it does get to become a little too real and it takes you by surprise for a second.

[16:22] Tommy: Yeah.

[16:23] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um and I I do think you need to still you you have to like tiptoe without people knowing to get there almost. Um in your your delicate construction of of things.

[16:36] Tommy: Yeah.

[16:36] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um and it doesn't feel like it's delicate because it is satire, because it is, you know, to the point of being parody. Um I think interestingly, out of all of those, and I do want classic type atomic line, we'll speak about this later, but I do want to talk about them in as a whole in a bit. But specifically with Reefer Madness, I think it's the funniest.

[16:58] Tommy: Oh, and I think it actually uses comedy to do that disarming thing. Do you know what I mean?

[17:05] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It is it like it has that shock comedy value, but not in an exploitative way.

[17:12] Tommy: Yeah, I think that is that is the key, is it has uh like perhaps bizarrely has like undone the exploitative nature that exists in its source material.

[17:23] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Exactly. Because it's it but it flips it right in its head. Like the people that it is exploiting are the people that kind of deserve to be exploited, are the people who are pushing this propaganda, pushing this false information.

[17:36] Tommy: Right.

[17:36] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Do you know what I mean? It's it it it gives it to them instead of what, you know, the sort of source material intended of completely hoodwinking the people.

[17:44] Tommy: Right.

[17:45] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um so in that respect, um I think it's yeah like is it kind of masterful. Like it is really, really great in his construction.

[17:55] Tommy: Um so I think to just kind of zoom in a bit on the music specifically.

[18:01] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah sure um one of the things I think it does brilliantly well is use reprise.

[18:07] Tommy: Mm-hmm.

[18:08] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um and again kinda keeping it in a theme of like flipping on its head that is how it uses its reprise. It's it doesn't use it to echo the same moment. In fact it always kind of inverts it almost always yeah.

[18:23] Tommy: So there's like uh three maybe four like significant reprises.

[18:29] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah. Um so I'm gonna do them off the top of my head, I'm an I so first one I can think of would be like uh the stuff.

[18:37] Tommy: Yes.

[18:38] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: So at the May sings. May sings at the beginning as a like um you know Jack's got me on the hook. I you know don't like him but I I have this difficult relationship with him.

[18:49] Tommy: Yes.

[18:50] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um and uh then in the end it's used as a I'm leaving you I no longer need the stuff this is my emancipation moment. Right. It you she sings it and she like murders him.

[19:03] Tommy: Basically yeah exactly.

[19:04] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's the a complete inverse of of the original thing. Um the Romeo and Juliet uh repeats initially this very naive love song celebrating Shakespeare, and it is very much like it ends the you know the song ends with this great idea of like oh I I think the I hope they have lots of friends.

[19:23] Tommy: Right.

[19:23] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's it's character character revelation of Jimmy and Mary. We learned that they're these you know goody two shoe idiots of a bygone area.

[19:42] Tommy: And then they reprise the song really, really well.

[19:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um the other one, which again is the it doesn't get a reprise in the film, does in the stage musical is the um uh the penny and die what's it called next?

[19:55] Tommy: Uh the old five and dime.

[19:56] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yes. Um and the the opening one is like this incredible dance number, all about all singing, all dancing. We're kids and we love going to the old five and dying for a drink.

[20:11] Tommy: Yeah.

[20:12] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And then in the stage musical, it gets flipped in his head is like, and this is where we lure kids into this dark seedy underbelly.

[20:20] Tommy: Right.

[20:21] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um it just does it. I just think that's really good.

[20:25] Tommy: Oh, the Jesus of course uh and then the Jesus one. That's a huge like a it's very significant.

[20:29] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, also one that doesn't uh show up in the movie, so if that's your only experience, fire up the the original LA cast recording. But as as Jimmy's gonna be sentenced to death, uh the literal Deus X machina that seems to appear is Jesus.

[20:45] Tommy: Um he's like uh Jimmy's like, oh, you're here to help.

[20:49] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And he's like, No, I'm here to gloat. You didn't listen to Jesus, Jimmy, and it's exactly it's so effortless, the turns that all these take.

[21:05] Tommy: Absolutely, absolutely.

[21:07] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I think that is so smart. I think I love I love using it because it's such an old convention, and normally it's just used to echo that point to give that person their kind of last you know, last moment. Ah, remember their big song, here it is again, enjoy, go to sleep.

[21:23] Tommy: Um whereas here is it's used as a proper plot device.

[21:27] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yep. It's my fave. I just think it's great.

[21:30] Tommy: Um the lyrics?

[21:32] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Oh.

[21:35] Tommy: So there was one in particular, I'm gonna need to look it up.

[21:38] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Uh-huh.

[21:38] Tommy: This this is one just jumped out of me. Um so um it's in The Stuff Reprise, right at the end.

[21:49] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um she's killed him.

[21:51] Tommy: Can I guess?

[21:52] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, you absolutely can.

[21:53] Tommy: Is it your corpus is delecti?

[21:55] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It absolutely is.

[21:57] Tommy: Because there's blood upon your necktie, your corpus is delecti.

[22:00] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And I was just like, that is so it's so good. It doesn't feel forced. It was not necessary.

[22:09] Tommy: Like No.

[22:12] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Abs Absolutely not. Um it's just it it's that kind of just really good rhyme that I think these B movie musicals can just get away with because they don't they it is heightened.

[22:25] Tommy: Like it wouldn't it wouldn't make sense if it was Nancy singing it in Oliver.

[22:30] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah. Right? Because it's it's funny, it's witty, yeah, and it's a murder scene.

[22:34] Tommy: Yeah.

[22:35] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's and it's totally works here. It's filled with it. The one the ones that always strike me are um uh in the first listen to Jesus Jimmy. Um is it I am the shroud of turin, I need to test your urine, or but Oh yeah.

[22:47] Tommy: I mean, there's there's a hundred of them in there.

[22:48] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, but that one, I'm the face on the shroud of turn, I need to test your urine. Um there's another one, uh all the cherubim say you gotta trust the man with the stigmata.

[22:58] Tommy: Mata, yeah, exactly.

[22:59] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Don't let Reefer kick your keister, I'm the poster boy for Easter. Um, they're so good.

[23:06] Tommy: They're so really, really good.

[23:08] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And like even the stupid ones, um, like there's a part, I wonder if I can do it off my head. Uh Jesus has a verse that's like uh, you know, you're gonna be floating on the river sticks, uh uh something something, sulfur pools, t torture tools, separations from your family jewels, and then the angels come back in and go, Rama Lama, they're gonna cut your ding dong.

[23:32] Tommy: Ding dong, yeah.

[23:33] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's so it's funny and clever all at once, and it's a dick joke.

[23:38] Tommy: Like Yeah, exactly. Like I remember when that when I first heard that one, and when they said cut you knew in the music there was they needed uh resolution of that line.

[23:47] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[23:48] Tommy: So you knew they were gonna add an extra pun onto that, and you were just waiting for it, and then it came and you're like, that's a great one.

[23:55] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I would never have called that extremely good, well done.

[24:00] Tommy: Like, it it's really well written.

[24:02] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: No, what I want to remark upon is um like relatively inexperienced writers.

[24:10] Tommy: Yeah, like at this time, you know, I mean at this time. The the music, Tommy and I spent ages ages when we're writing up the notes for the show, um, being like, well, this can't like this can't be the composer.

[24:21] Tommy: Right.

[24:22] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Because he's not done anything. And he's like since he's not done anything.

[24:26] Tommy: Yeah.

[24:27] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And I'm still feeling a bit like that. Like it doesn't, it doesn't make sense because even just the musical construction is fantastic.

[24:36] Tommy: Like it's really it's thematic.

[24:39] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like, if you you know, I mean, if you look at something like Reefer Madness, it's got that it instantly feels like that B movie horror.

[24:46] Tommy: Well, and you if you can listen back and hear the lightmotif of any time the bump bump bum bump comes back in, it just in the underscoring of stuff.

[24:55] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Absolutely. Um and then listen to just I mean it feels like that kind of glorious showman number.

[25:01] Tommy: Yeah.

[25:02] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um the orgy song playing on like like these kind of fake Eastern themes.

[25:08] Tommy: Do you know I mean that plays into that very stereotypical like hashish what what the shock movie would have written it about.

[25:17] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like exactly. Like that is that is the thing that I love about this movie is it it captures because it's got like sixteen different layers to it, and it very well captures the feeling of both like it can be sardonic and parody, and is doing a great job at pretending to be the thing it is, if that makes sense.

[25:37] Tommy: Like even just some of the like you know, heightened 1930s stupid language they use.

[25:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um like I think it's in um Mary Lane where there's a a lyric, it's like you flood my world with all the colors of the Sunday funnies.

[25:52] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[25:53] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like, that's not a no one would say that in 2021.

[25:57] Tommy: No.

[25:58] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I'm I wonder if anyone would even say that in 1930. But like and Jack throws around a bunch of lines just in the libretto, like, you know, uh see in the funny papers, or uh uh someone says it's a hop and a skip to Tasty Town.

[26:13] Tommy: Uh and he flat Dillinger, like just some of these, you know, real campy turn of phrases are so exactly appropriate and so infinitely clever.

[26:26] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, that just they just build this world that you totally accept as real.

[26:31] Tommy: Totally.

[26:32] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Even though it's so heightened.

[26:34] Tommy: Yeah.

[26:35] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um I think like, yeah, to to kind of focus on the book a wee bit now, like uh again, like the script is really, really solid.

[26:56] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yes. Uh the kind of uh cult movie Yeah, that's a good turn. Adapting masterpiece that like, you know, I mean they're very, very good at what they do. Um but you can t you can tell he's he's he knows what he's doing when it comes to adapting source material. Like um because I think even like with Heathers, uh it it isn't the film on the stage, do you know what I mean? Like he's he's hit those moments where he's like, this needs to be in it, this needs to be in it, this needs to be in it, but I'm still creating a show. He does the thing that I think other adapters don't do where he treats the source material with uh an immense amount of respect in spite of its frivolity. Um like I think about some of the you know, the stupid shit we complain about in like meme girls.

Um goin coco glen coco like is not an appropriate joke for the source material, right? Uh huh. It's a joke for the meta messaging around the thing. Yeah, there's no like what's your damage song just because that's the cult line. Like, and it it it he does a really good job of tiptoeing around those things. Uh-huh. Which I think gives it a lot of integrity, which is absolutely weird to say about something that is like this irreverent.

[28:16] Tommy: It's hallmark that is that it doesn't have integrity.

[28:19] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Precisely. But I th it's the thing that struck me was how closely he stuck to the original source material. Because it like the original source material is nonsense. Like it really means nothing, and there's nothing really to it. Um but yet he really picked out the key things that would work as a story, you know what I mean? Um things like the car crash, and obviously make just focusing that on one central character, the struggle, yeah. Um the kind of weirdly complex character of May and whoever sh whatever she was called in the original. You know what I mean? Like these these little things that he just kept. Yeah, like brilliant song spotting. Even like it seems like it seems like a knock to even call it song spotting because it's so much more than that.

But I think like it's just it's so weird because this the source material isn't good. Like the source tale isn't good storytelling, and yet taking the same story, yeah, Kevin Murphy is able to make it a really solid interest in complex storyline.

[29:27] Tommy: Well, it does cool. It does make you wonder like what's the next piece of lost media, what's the next like because like have you ever we'd we uh in college once watched the old black and white non-musical Little Shop, and it's the same, like it's it is bizarre and doesn't make a lot of sense, and you never would have thought it would should be a musical. Um, and then yet it it brilliantly translates into probably you know one of the most memorable musicals of our time. Weirdly, um the same for a dog fight.

[30:00] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right. You'd would never watch that film and think this should be a musical.

[30:05] Tommy: Yeah.

[30:05] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like at all. It is it's like it's cool and it's it's very much its own thing.

[30:09] Tommy: Right.

[30:09] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um actually the same as well for um uh crybaby, the John Martyrs.

[30:15] Tommy: Sure.

[30:15] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like, it's uh like John Mortars John Motors films are so mental. So bizarre. The but the thing is there's like obviously, yes, hairspray, but hairspray is all of the John Waters. It's the most normal of everything. Um but yeah, like imagine trying to do like Pink Flamingos, the musical.

[30:35] Tommy: Right.

[30:37] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I mean, I kind of obviously really kind of want that to happen. But like it would be really difficult.

[30:42] Tommy: Yeah, it'd be really difficult to do.

[30:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um so yeah, but it's it's interesting because like these these musicals that have been adapted from these midslics are all extremely solid, high, like top of their game.

[30:56] Tommy: Yeah.

[30:57] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Shows that's interesting. I do think there is something to be said about so the well, here, shall we talk about the source material?

[31:07] Tommy: Yes.

[31:08] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Hop on my segue!

[31:10] Tommy: Okay.

[31:12] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Did I do that last transition? Whatever, it's fun. I think this is what we do.

[32:10] Tommy: So that's source me.

[32:12] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I mean everyone needs to watch it.

[32:14] Tommy: Oh, it's not.

[32:14] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Every single person. It's only an hour long. Like, everyone needs to watch it. It is so nonsense. I was thinking back, and I actually have the because you had said you watched this and I my first reaction the the 1936 film.

[32:27] Tommy: And my first thought, my first the first thing I said was I haven't watched it, and I thought back, I have seen it. Um in college, uh there one of the theater apartments uh mm uh had a standing weekly event called Weird Wednesday.

[32:41] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um where every Wednesday at like midnight we'd watch a bizarre film.

[32:47] Tommy: Um one of the showings was absolutely Re for Madness.

[32:52] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah. Um and it is this film has like what so what I'm learning is Reefer Madness is popular because of that.

[33:01] Tommy: I participated in a thing that has made this film popular again.

[33:05] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Absolutely. Like this like no one would know about this film if it wasn't for the people who smoked weed in the sixties.

[33:15] Tommy: Right.

[33:15] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like that is the reason why this is a public and the well, the people who smoke weed in the 60s all the way through to to people who smoke weed in the nineties.

[33:23] Tommy: Yeah, and today.

[33:24] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um but the Yeah, that is the only reason it it didn't do well in its time. And I'm I'm pleased to hear that.

[33:32] Tommy: You know, I'm pleased to hear that the the people of nineteen thirty-six weren't bought over.

[33:37] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: What I'm what I'm learning is, and like it's hard to unpack the history of this film because it is essentially a lost film, right?

[33:43] Tommy: Right.

[33:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, so it's not super documented. Um the the original cut of the film called maybe Tell Your Children.

[33:52] Tommy: Tell your children, yeah.

[33:54] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um was less salacious. Um and was very wholesomely intended to be a like, uh oh, watch out sort of film.

[34:05] Tommy: And then was bought by a notorious exploitation film maverick.

[34:13] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yes. Recovery. It was RKO, wasn't it?

[34:18] Tommy: It was RKO who had it.

[34:19] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: No, this guy didn't like they I wish I could find his name right now. Um Don S.

[34:28] Tommy: Beer, E S P E R.

[34:30] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right. Um, who was a producer, who they the thing I read about him, they described him as he would uh sneak into unoccupied projection booths, steal film strips, and drive them to the next town early so that he could get money before the film was supposed to be there.

[34:47] Tommy: Um like this is the kind of guy he was.

[34:50] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Umly in the 30s.

[34:52] Tommy: Right, like such a weird construct of its time.

[34:54] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: He had a Tommy gun, you know.

[34:56] Tommy: Absolutely.

[34:57] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like he he wore he wore a hat that was he was he was Jack, he was, you know.

[35:04] Tommy: He had like a weird pencil mustache and was always chewing a toothpick.

[35:07] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, I assume.

[35:08] Tommy: Um but that's why Jack is like weirdly not villainized in the film.

[35:12] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right, exactly. Because he's not 100% the big guy.

[35:14] Tommy: He's 100% the bad guy.

[35:15] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, what I've seen is the discourse that exists around this thing is a discussion of it becomes a discussion of what is an exploitation film.

[35:25] Tommy: Um that like this film there's a reading of this film where it is pretending to be a morality film.

[35:34] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right. Really, the because of its guise as a morality film, it lets you watch this dark, seedy tale.

[35:44] Tommy: Um that nor that at if it was simply portrayed as a drama would not at all have flown in, you know, polite society of the 1930s.

[35:53] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Exactly. Um so you know, learning about that history is I I find fascinating. Cause I think like I I mean, I don't know because I was I didn't live then, I don't know what the sensibilities are.

[36:07] Tommy: Right.

[36:08] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: But I feel like during the depression, it I don't think people would have been up for watching this.

[36:16] Tommy: Like I don't like obviously it's capitalizing on their fear, and that's obviously a huge part of all of these propaganda films that were released at that time.

[36:24] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um but it's really like it is actually quite salacious and it is quite graphic, and I just think there would be a lot of people like this is too much.

[36:34] Tommy: Because they weren't used to seeing that kind of thing.

[36:38] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: But it but it lets you get away with it.

[36:41] Tommy: I'm trying to I'm just gonna.

[36:42] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: So do you think it would appeal to the monkey mind? Do you think it would be like people would be like, oh, let's go see, yes, I want to protect my children.

[36:49] Tommy: You're not you're not going to watch, you know, XXX ladies in their skivvies, right?

[36:54] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right.

[36:55] Tommy: You're watching a very important morality pie, right.

[36:59] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Uh huh. Like there's But then maybe then it would have been more popular.

[37:03] Tommy: Right.

[37:04] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You know what I mean? It's like D New Deep. It's like, have you seen Father Ted?

[37:07] Tommy: I've not seen Father Ted.

[37:09] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Oh, that's a shame. There's um, yeah, so I I could probably summarize this.

[37:13] Tommy: Let's Jimmy's tried to tell a story in a thank you.

[37:17] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um the F is called The Passion of St. Tibulus.

[37:19] Tommy: Okay.

[37:20] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, and uh the Bishop of the Church uh is telling uh the Father Ted and Dougle um that they need to go and and protest this film because it's it's basically about this saint who has this passionate love affair that's really X-rated and you know you see penis and all this.

[37:38] Tommy: And so it's like obviously we can't have this, go protest.

[37:40] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right.

[37:41] Tommy: Um and so Ted and Diggle chain themselves outside the cinema with their placards and everything, and then everyone comes up to them and is like, is it a nudie film, father?

[37:50] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's like, what do you see? Do you see just the ars, or do you see the full, you know, um and they're like, I think it's everything, Mary?

[37:56] Tommy: And they're like, all right, yes, but we'll go see it then, yes.

[37:59] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And then they all just walk in there, but basically, and it becomes the biggest film that the cinema's ever seen.

[38:04] Tommy: It's like it's like that.

[38:05] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I think there are examples of this this thing through history, right?

[38:09] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[38:09] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Of like, you know, what what is the biblical tale that is actually super grotesque, but because it's about God.

[38:17] Tommy: And exactly.

[38:18] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You even see it's been a while. Jesus isn't in the 1930s film, correct?

[38:22] Tommy: No, he is not.

[38:23] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Okay. Um so there's they're, you know, even explicitly, you know, there's a whole bunch of scenes in a church in this thing, right?

[38:30] Tommy: They're they're doing some calls to this kind of exploitation y feel of a thing.

[38:36] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Well, they very much are, and I think that's actually uh one of the things that the musical does really well is it's not only just drawing from this source material of Reefer Madness, it's looking at this idea of um propaganda.

[38:51] Tommy: It puts it in its context.

[38:53] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, totally, because it hits on everything, like it hits on homosexuality, hits on religion and well, and the good side of religion, they talk about Darwinism, they talk about Freud and sex and all of these things that everyone was waging a war on.

[39:08] Tommy: Right in those days, you know, I mean the in in the early days, right?

[39:12] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um obviously everything's now been solved.

[39:15] Tommy: Long pause, long pause.

[39:17] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I know.

[39:17] Tommy: Um but yeah, and the th I think that's the thing is that so the film in this kind of meta way becomes or not the film, sorry, the musical in a meta way becomes the the send up of this whole concept of what reefer madness was.

[39:32] Tommy: Well, and and that I mean, we we owe it to the film itself, that's how it kind of got its rebirth because it was a lost film and then was starting when cannabis policy reform started happening.

[39:41] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yes, you know, who whoever found it and then started showing it at a bunch of pot events, being like look at this fucking shit.

[39:50] Tommy: Um it is like it is amazing if you're if it's like into the thing.

[39:54] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Have you seen the color version?

[39:56] Tommy: I have.

[39:56] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Oh man, it's funny.

[39:58] Tommy: It's so good.

[40:00] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's I mean, in a way that it's awful, but like it's really good.

[40:03] Tommy: Like, so every single time they take a puff, um, it comes out as this mystical colour.

[40:10] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And obviously the colorized version has been done retrospectively, like they know what the film is at this point.

[40:15] Tommy: Um but I love it.

[40:16] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I thought it was an amazing choice.

[40:18] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um and I think they could have I think they could have lent into it more, knowing what it is. Like I thought they were a bit too honest with their colorization. I think you could have made characters like red or green, you know, depending as like as they turn. Um I thought that'd be quite funny. Um but yeah, we owe a lot to the source material. Did you know this? So um it was screened by the um uh directors of uh Nightmare on Elm Street.

[40:48] Tommy: Oh okay, right, who were only able to create Nightmare on Elm Street because of their screenings of Reefer Madness.

[40:57] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That's nuts. And I know I am well aware it went on to become New Line Cinema.

[41:02] Tommy: Yeah, and Nightmare on Elm Street is I mean, it is night the nickname in the industry for New Line Cinema is the house that Freddie built.

[41:10] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um exactly because they owe everything to the city. And then we have Lord of the Rings.

[41:15] Tommy: Yeah.

[41:15] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: The best movie ever created, all thanks to Reefer Madness. It's like that should have been the quiz question.

[41:20] Tommy: That should have been the quiz question.

[41:21] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Damn it. It's like that that that kid who traded a paper clip for a house.

[41:25] Tommy: We could technically still make that the quiz question.

[41:27] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Nah, I like our quiz quiz.

[41:28] Tommy: Okay, cool. But it's like that guy who traded a paper clip for a house. Like do you remember this guy?

[41:34] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: No.

[41:38] Tommy: It was like I understand the concept. Like the Zelda Big Oran Sword.

[41:42] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yes.

[41:46] Tommy: One one red paper clip, when was this?

[41:48] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: 2005. Um this this guy was like, I want to buy a house, I have this paper clip, what do you trade me for it? Um and so he trades the paper clip for a fish shaped pen, which then he trades for a hand sculpted doorknob, which he trades for a camp stove, and on and on and on until he trades it for a two-story farmhouse in Saskatchewan. Um and that's you know, New Line Cinema.

[42:14] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: They traded colorized version or a non-colorized version at the time of Reefer Madness.

[42:18] Tommy: Yeah.

[42:19] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: For to create Lord of the Rings.

[42:21] Tommy: Lord of the Rings, who knew?

[42:23] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: So good. So so good. I do I do think there is because we were amusing earlier, like, how does how does, you know, there's a TikTok trend right now where the audio goes, how does this and this become this? Um great. And uh, like you know, this ridiculous, bizarre, poorly constructed exploitation film become this beautiful musical. And I do think there is something to be said about like uh uh what's the word I'm looking for? The like intrinsic human aesthetic, um, that something about this original 1936 film was right, and someone saw that, and that's why it survives.

[43:12] Tommy: And I think that's something you could say about all these things because for every Reefer Madness there is there's a thousand things we're never gonna see again. Um, for every movie they talk over on Mystery Science Theater, there's a thousand shitty ones that aren't worth it because they're not quite there. Um and so I do think there is, you know, some je ne sais quoi to it.

[43:35] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Absolutely and and yeah, I think you're totally right. Um because there were like loads of other films that were released at pretty much at the exact same time. They were all anti-marijuana propaganda films um and they were you don't hear about them as much, probably because they were a bit more successful and they helped wage the war on drugs that was starting in 1930s, you know what I mean? Um whereas this one, because it was so ridiculous as had yeah like you say had this other like I love that actually um yeah I think I I wanna I do want to try and delve in a little bit more into like B movies yeah like that because I it's not a B movie it's not a B I mean it because it's a propaganda but like nowadays we'd consider it a B movie but it wasn't made to be a it wasn't made as a B movie um but you could have made it as a it could be a B movie you know I mean someone could have written that as a as a B movie and then it gets adapted.

[44:34] Tommy: I think like that's that's the thing. But um yeah these like B movie musicals um I just think it's it it is odd how good they all like there's something there isn't it right that they're all very well good I think we're all and it's not like there's no common factor between them apart from Kevin Murphy with this in your time um uh uh yeah but even there because that was Lawrence Akee so no it's not that you know right that's a third degree separation so no what is it I I mean I do think there is something that we as humans are drawn to is is the fact that it is also accidental um that they're they're good in spite of themselves um they're good for reasons unintended by the original creators and that is a huge draw I mean look at the room right like you know that is that is a secret sauce that is impossible to produce right because the whole point is that it's an accident.

[45:31] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um but is some of the common thread between these things that they are, you know.

[45:35] Tommy: I think that's even I think that's even like Rocky Horror.

[45:38] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like there's a whole genre.

[45:41] Tommy: Totally.

[45:41] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like I think Rocky Horror is a big because obviously Rocky Horror isn't a B movie.

[45:45] Tommy: Rocky Horror is true.

[45:46] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Rocky Horror is perhaps a pastiche of B movies.

[45:48] Tommy: Rocky Horror is perhaps the one that did it intentionally.

[45:50] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, um, but it still does it honestly. You know, I mean, again, it could have been a a B movie, you know, like there could have been this weird sci-fi alien mélange that decided to turn. Um but one of the things I think that really interesting is like they all have a commentary on a on the wider world, yeah, right?

[46:11] Tommy: And uh a really good strong critique of the wider world that they deliver in this very heightened melodramatic way. So obviously Reefer Madness is looking at marijuana, but also just like I said, propaganda in general.

[46:24] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right. Um You're in Town uh you well, you could probably talk on this more than me, but like it it it's looking at class warfare and the perils of hoarding and some shit like that.

[46:36] Tommy: Yeah, and it is in a very uh dystopian line.

[46:39] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right, and and and in a very dystopian lamp-shaded way. Um I always for Little Sally has a line that I only know this if you you know, you don't if you're clicking on this in the future. Um I'm we're doing You're in Town as our digital musical at the school I work at this year.

[46:55] Tommy: Um Little Sally has a line about halfway through where she asks Officer Lockstock, and like point blank, she's like, Officer Lockstock, why don't we spend more time talking about hydraulics?

[46:55] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And Officer Lockstock says, what do you mean, little Sally? You know, hydraulics.

[47:09] Tommy: The you know, the irrigation, the water table.

[47:13] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I feel like a drought would have a larger effect on hydraulics.

[47:17] Tommy: Um and uh Officer Lockstock says, Well, well sometimes in a musical, it is easier to focus on one thing than a lot of different things.

[47:26] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And Little Sally goes, Oh, oh that makes sense, and then she pauses. Then she goes, So why not hydraulics?

[47:33] Tommy: And he's like a little and like that's the end of the thing. And like you know that and like Reefer Madness, the musical Little Shop of Horror is the musical, like all of these second takes on these things do that to an extent.

[47:48] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Exactly. Exactly. Um and it's really good because the g it we didn't if it was just if someone was writing a musical like for Rocky Horror for example, someone wanted to write a musical about sex positivity.

[48:02] Tommy: Right.

[48:02] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: How the f do you do that? Do you know what I mean? Right.

[48:05] Tommy: Right.

[48:05] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's the only way that you can do that by writing about a random alien.

[48:09] Tommy: Yeah.

[48:10] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Do you know what I mean? Who comes down and has a party and exploits this very naive couple. Like j like you would never Right you have to you never I mean it was it was interesting this I this will be a a large tangent so if this ends up on the cutting room floor I'm sorry future editing Jimmy.

[48:27] Tommy: Um that's okay.

[48:28] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: But uh so I've abandoned my tech theater curriculum this year and we're just learning about stuff that the kids want to learn about. Last week we had a whole lesson on the trolley problem. Are you aware of the trolley problem?

[48:38] Tommy: Um what's fun is high schoolers aren't aware of the trolley problem so you can kind of like surprise them with it.

[48:43] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um but the by the end of the class as a lot of these discussions go, you know, we had devolved in discussions about like the ethics of self-driving cars.

[48:52] Tommy: Um we had devolved into the ethics of abortion um which is touchy subject um but it's all it's all these ethical based problems, right?

[49:01] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And um one of the questions a kid raised was like, well why it because I had drawn a picture of the trolley on a board on the board. And one of the kids was like, well then why didn't you just draw a self-driving car on the board?

[49:12] Tommy: Um I was like, well, but that's the thing. The way we have to approach these ethical problems are in vastly abstracted ways.

[49:21] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Otherwise we get caught up in the nuance of the thing.

[49:24] Tommy: And so the further away the more distance you can feel from reality, the more likely you might be able to actually make what is your ethical decision on this thing in s instead of being uh influenced by all of your outside thoughts on it.

[49:41] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: A hundred percent and when we go on to talk about weed in general, we'll talk about like we will 100% talk about that.

[49:47] Tommy: Yeah.

[49:47] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um because I really yeah I want to um and and in a way I I would agree with in fact all of the well maybe not that ball in Urentine a bit less so um but Rocky Horror had a huge impact on my life.

[50:02] Tommy: Sure.

[50:02] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like I saw that musical when I was young.

[50:04] Tommy: Yeah.

[50:04] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um potentially maybe too young to have seen it.

[50:08] Tommy: Yeah.

[50:09] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: But um I'm an extremely sex positive person and I can easily draw tangents back to watching Rocky Horror when I was young.

[50:16] Tommy: Yeah about and embracing that idea of like don't dream it be it right.

[50:21] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You know my catchphrase is I don't yuck no one's yums.

[50:24] Tommy: Right.

[50:24] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You know what I mean? And that is that that is in many ways what that show is about. And it's it's an important less it's you know it's an important life lesson.

[50:34] Tommy: Yeah.

[50:35] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um I will that is pitched in a really good way. I will say and this might be dangerous for me to divulge but like Reefer Madness is one of my dream high school shows to do.

[50:45] Tommy: Um high school, yeah.

[50:47] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like, cause I think it is I think now, at least in America, you know, it it still wouldn't quite like we're over it. Weed's gonna get legalized federally probably in the next eight years, like blah blah blah.

[51:00] Tommy: We'll talk more.

[51:01] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, but it's still there's still uh it would be an important show for kids to do to discuss. There's a like, because I've thought this through, there's a couple sticking points. I think you have to cut the orgy scene, which makes me I think you definitely need to cut the orgy scene, yes.

[51:16] Tommy: Like I'm would be sad to see you'd go.

[51:18] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And but then high schoolers do b do that boy.

[51:21] Tommy: Right, high schoolers do some some crazy stuff.

[51:24] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um and it's this imbalance of you know, where do we apply our morals and things like that and how real does it feel. But I think the orgy is definitely just an orgy in Pippin and high schools across the country do that all the time.

[51:40] Tommy: You make an extremely valid point.

[51:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And it's just it's just an orgy.

[51:45] Tommy: It is just an orgy in Pippin.

[51:47] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yep, you're right.

[51:49] Tommy: So, you know.

[51:50] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Do it.

[51:51] Tommy: I think no, I I agree. I I and I think that's the thing, is like maybe it is like maybe within these shows, because really, Rocky Horror has nothing explicit.

[52:00] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right.

[52:00] Tommy: There's nothing explicit. It's just it it is, it's that moral line of like you it needs to come with education.

[52:01] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It needs to come with a good understanding.

[52:09] Tommy: Right.

[52:09] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um but as long as you have that companion, yeah, right, as long as you've got your responsible adult who you can talk to about it with.

[52:17] Tommy: Right.

[52:17] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um is an extremely useful and accessible tool to educate.

[52:23] Tommy: Well, and it's a it's a way into those conversations that is healthy, that isn't like hello fellow kids.

[52:29] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um Yeah.

[52:30] Tommy: Like it's they can be so useful in these contexts.

[52:34] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And it's easy enough for the kids as well to make their own connections.

[52:38] Tommy: They don't need to be told how to connect the dots.

[52:42] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Which is always the better way to teach too, is to just provide information and let the conclusion happen in the kids' brain.

[52:47] Tommy: Um what a great vehicle to do it.

[52:50] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: A musical.

[52:51] Tommy: Yeah.

[52:52] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Uh absolutely.

[52:54] Tommy: So are we basically saying that Reefer Madness is the best musical?

[52:59] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I mean, probably what's going on.

[53:01] Tommy: That's really what we're saying.

[53:01] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[53:02] Tommy: Watch out. Coming to a high school near you.

[53:04] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, exactly. Reefer Madness and Rocky Horror are coming to high school.

[53:07] Tommy: Oh man. We promise we will never educate your children.

[53:10] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I can't promise that.

[53:11] Tommy: Um You can't promise that.

[53:13] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's okay. I take all responsibility for the words I said.

[53:17] Tommy: Exactly.

[53:18] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's all me. I was making tell me do it. This podcast is scripted.

[53:22] Tommy: Uh God, if this podcast was scripted, we'd need to apologize a lot.

[53:26] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: We would absolutely.

[53:28] Tommy: Um, and also we would not be good script writers.

[53:31] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: No.

[53:31] Tommy: Uh but yeah, I just think to to kind of round off with Reefer Madness specifically, like, um it's really impressive, and I think people need to take it seriously as a show in the musical theatre canon because it it taking from that source material and really applying some good intelligent thought.

[53:54] Tommy: Yeah. I mean, it's really impressive. I think it has a more direct political message than any other show from the past 20 years. Uh, about politics, save for maybe some of the like, you know, what the constitution means to me, like some of the explicitly politics-focused ones.

[54:19] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Listen, right, I’ve not thought of—I just—the thought just popped in my head there, so it might come out completely incorrectly. But is it a more realistic perspective of politics than Hamilton?

[54:28] Tommy: Yes. Do you know what I mean? Because I still think Hamilton is a little bit—it’s got a little bit of the red, white, and blue attached to it. Do you know? I mean, you know, Lynn gets slammed with this by people who are misinformed, but like, you know, George Washington was terrible. Like, these people were all terrible in ways that aren't shown in the musical because he's creating a narrative and because it's a commentary on America today, but it is, you know, Hamilton is like, yeah, America. And you know, I do think we are learning that, like, yeah, America isn't necessarily the best phrase to start your show with.

[55:07] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Well, exactly. Like, it is—it’s Hamilton the American musical. I think Reefer Madness, the American musical, might be a little bit more apolitical.

[55:14] Tommy: Yeah, yeah. That’s a fair call, right? There’s something—because in good ways and bad ways.

[55:21] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. But people aren't gonna pay $20,000 for a front row seat to Reefer Madness.

[55:27] Tommy: I would. One of the things that I actually think would have been really good to help kind of enforce this point of kind of propaganda the musical and really telling a story is a cut song that they had called “We Know Best,” and it was sung—it was Jimmy's parents sung it to Jimmy, basically just telling him about the dangers of marijuana and that he should change those things.

[56:02] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I imagine very—oh, act two?

[56:04] Tommy: I imagined it was very—I think it was an act two, yeah. Because it was post him killing the old man and he’s like this is him reforming and coming off the marijuana before he eats the brownie. And they cut it because it just made act two drag right just that bit much. But I think it’s a shame because I actually think it’s one of the best songs that they’ve written. Like, it’s so lucky—like it’s on the LA—yeah, the kind of movie combo in the recording, it’s there. If you load up this album on Spotify, we’re so lucky that we have—like this is a great study in the progression of a show. There’s a bunch of cut songs from the LA performance, there’s a whole LA version, and then how they readapted it for the movie, which we’ll talk about.

[56:38] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this song in particular, like it reminded me of the kind of biting commentary that they had like that Michael B. Jordan wrote in A Strange Loop. Like, it’s really on the nose, but it is not pitched in a way that is like—well, the only people it’s offensive to are the people that should feel that should be offended.

[57:04] Tommy: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. As in the WASPs, like do you know what I mean? Like it is very much a really honest expose of the people that this propaganda was marketed at, you know what I mean?

[57:32] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, and it’s definitely worth—it’s definitely worth a listen to. And I think it captures the whole theme of the—like that is the theme song of the show.

[57:44] Tommy: Right.

[57:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: But I get why they—because it’s not about marijuana in itself. And it does kind of stop the action of the story.

[57:53] Tommy: Yes, exactly.

[57:54] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: But it is extremely well written.

[57:57] Tommy: Yeah.

[57:57] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And knows exactly what it’s doing. And I think Trey Parker and Matt Stone could learn a lesson.

[58:04] Tommy: I think they could indeed. You’re not sad that the monkey song got cut from—

[58:05] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I’m not. I mean, again, some great, great monkey puns.

[58:09] Tommy: Monkey.

[58:09] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Great monkey puns. Monkey C junkie do is a really good line.

[58:17] Tommy: So good.

[58:18] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: There’s another one about—they had a simian rhyme in there. Like, very smart.

[58:23] Tommy: Yes.

[58:23] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like stupid song.

[58:25] Tommy: It is a stupid song. The Brainy song isn’t necessarily better, but I guess it’s more serving to the plot.

[58:33] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Fair point.

[58:33] Tommy: Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, who knows?

[58:37] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: But we’ll take it. You know, we’ll take it. And it still exists, and you just won’t see it on a stage. That’s fine.

[58:43] Tommy: That’s—I’ve heard a lot of lepers, and I’ve raised him from the dead.

[58:49] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Is that what it’s gonna take to get this through your head? You can touch if you insist on smoking to indulge those teenage kids. Soon you’ll be floating realistic.

[59:02] Tommy: What a fix.

[59:04] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: So for sure to separation from your family, Jeh.

[59:16] Tommy: Listen to Jesus to me. Gotta give it a blunt boy.

[59:20] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Listen to me, or why I’m the best Satan’s Lenpoy.

[59:26] Tommy: Don’t let Greek butt get the pista.

[59:34] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I just had flashbacks to when I started off this podcast saying I’m drinking piss.

[59:39] Tommy: And I do now want to apologize for that.

[59:43] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I thought it was funny.

[59:46] Tommy: Yeah, well it didn’t—it wasn’t really in keeping with the theme of what we—you know, what we drink, but it was being associated with the show. It was matching the energy that we had in the moment.

[59:58] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You’re so right. You’re so right. It was honest to the improv.

[1:00:01] Tommy: It is what it was.

[1:00:03] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It really did seem like a piss-drinking moment, didn’t it?

[1:00:06] Tommy: It really, it really did. Love them. I gotta—I gotta—we have to get bi-weekly COVID tests at my school because the world’s terrible, and the nurse—our just nurse doesn’t—and so she stuck the Q-tip up my nose. I don’t know, do you guys have different COVID tests? Have you gotten a COVID test ever?

[1:00:25] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I’ve still not had one, but we’ve got three.

[1:00:27] Tommy: Okay.

[1:00:28] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: We’ve got back of the mouth, we’ve got small nose, and we’ve got deep nose.

[1:00:31] Tommy: All of ours are nose-based, and most of them are pretty deep nose.

[1:00:36] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And last time I had gotten one, like I just—it wasn’t working. She like couldn’t get enough material on the thing. And she pulled it out this time and was like, oh, that’s so much better. And I said, Good boogers, Tommy.

[1:00:51] Tommy: I love that.

[1:00:53] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Oh, that is the cutest thing.

[1:00:56] Tommy: That’s a T-shirt. Good boogers, Tommy.

[1:00:59] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That’s a T-shirt. When did you first see the movie?

[1:01:04] Tommy: College. Um, what is nuts to me is—oh god, I hope he doesn’t listen. Um, I had a long-term boyfriend who is now an ex-boyfriend, um, who was very wholesome. Um, like raised in a very religious family, still was very in touch with them. Used to work at like a Catholic music store. Um, and his specialty was like, what heathen music do you listen to? Let me suggest this Christian band that sounds like them. Um, still practicing religion still—I think in that way that any gay man in the early aughts is kind of struggling with their religion and their homosexuality.

[1:01:45] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right, okay, okay. And you know, we dated for several years, like I definitely enjoyed the guy. Um, he loved this movie. He loved this movie so much and was like, you have to watch this in a way that like I am super passionate about it now. Um, but that’s how I was introduced. So he introduced it to the show. He introduced it to me, my super religious boyfriend introduced the movie musical Reefer Madness to me.

[1:02:13] Tommy: Um, why not? Like he had it on TV. Jesus is painted in a relatively good light.

[1:02:17] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I mean, it is—I do think there is—we’re watching—we talked about this off pod, but my—the current boyfriend and I are watching Dairy Girls right now on Netflix, um, which as a reformed Catholic I find so funny for like its deeply religious jokes. And I do think there is a subtle niche of a pocket of jokes for religious people. And like the whole—we talked about it, the whole listen to Jesus, Jimmy, like if you’re not Catholic, you don’t understand, trust the man with the stigmata, right? Like that’s not a joke you understand.

[1:02:53] Tommy: Um, you know, we were watching Dairy Girls and I was—I had just told my boyfriend about what the Stations of the Cross were. He wasn’t raised religious. Um, and I was, and for several years in a row when we performed the Stations of the Cross, I was cast as Judas, which I think is a sign of things to come. Um, I knew then we had like just gone over like how ridiculous the Stations of the Cross are. And there’s a joke in Dairy Girls where I think it’s the grandfather like is meeting a new girl, um, and he goes, we met out of the Stations of the Cross, and the daughter goes, which one? And he goes, Jesus falls down a second time. And it’s such a funny fucking joke, but it’s only funny if you know how ridiculous—like that has gone over my head, so I don’t really get it.

[1:03:39] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: But yeah. So I think there’s something to that. And it is interesting now learning more about like how this lived as an exploitation film, that it was the way to like be able to see the raunchy stuff while pretending that it’s okay. Like I think like for the open-minded Catholic, yeah, with the open-minded process, like this would be a funny—like this because you would get it. I mean, it’s not telling you that you’re a horrible person for believing in a religion, absolutely not. It’s just being like some people really buy into this shit.

[1:04:09] Tommy: Right. You know what I mean? Like that’s kind of what it is. Um, but like, so we watched it in college, and like now to the point where I watched it a couple times leading up to this just because I’ll put it on the background sometimes. But I’ve watched this movie so many times. There is the things I know about it in the dance at the five and dime with, um, uh, uh, what Campbell, what’s her face? Um, of all people. Um, there’s a move—she’s the sister of—she’s Jimmy, yeah, and that’s why she’s in the movie, not because she’s famous.

[1:04:48] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, I love that. Um, but Jack does a tango move with her where he like catches her head behind his back. You probably don’t remember it unless you’ve seen it.

[1:04:57] Tommy: Absolutely not.

[1:04:58] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That move is illegal in competitive ballroom dancing. That’s a thing I know from watching this movie so many times. Um, Ana Gesteyer—that should have been the quiz question.

[1:05:00] Tommy: I know.

[1:05:06] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: When Anna Gasteyer is singing the stuff, and it is—it is a line that still makes me cringe. Um, but it’s the line is what the fun sometimes escapes me when Jack gets down and rapes me. And she yells it out the window. Uh, in that cutaway of her out the window, her cigarette switches hands, it’s a continuity error. Um, ideas. Like I do—I’ve watched this movie many, many, many times.

[1:06:30] Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:06:30] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Uh, that whole sequence.

[1:06:31] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That’s—I mean, well, there you go. That goes to show that this is a good old movie.

[1:05:38] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's there's a like I will be watching it again

[1:06:41] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[1:06:41] Tommy: It is—I know that. It is very rewatchable. It is very enjoyable again and again. It is also—I mean, we’ve hinted at it too, but um, I was in college, I was studying theater, I was studying musical theater, and I was so curious about like the script and things, and this was one of my first studies in like, you know, what are the dramaturgical—excuse me? What are the dramaturgical changes they’ve made between the stage production and the movie production?

[1:06:52] Tommy: Totally.

[1:06:53] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And like that—it’s really good. You can tell like a couple people came in and are like, okay, we gotta fix this part and this part and this part and this part. And they’re like, okay, here’s how we do that effectively.

[1:07:04] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:07:04] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And they’re definitely—and that there wasn’t resistance to like, but our songs—

[1:07:04] Tommy: No, exactly. And I think that’s the thing is like nobody’s missing Jimmy on the Lamb.

[1:07:12] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: No.

[1:07:13] Tommy: Nobody nobody, you know I mean definitely nobody's missing The monkey song.

[1:07:18] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Well the monkeys are the dead man's office.

[1:07:19] Tommy: Like um but it what they have yeah like you say like what they have done to fix it.

[1:07:26] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[1:07:27] Tommy: Like that Mary Lane song is really It's so good.

[1:07:30] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Solid and it makes sense.

[1:07:32] Tommy: Like it is a really good way of uh getting over the because obviously the act separation Right you gotta fix it because that's when you've got Jimmy deciding I'm not I'm going off it now.

[1:07:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That's the change that you have when you start with act two.

[1:07:47] Tommy: Right.

[1:07:47] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um that's difficult to do because that takes time.

[1:07:50] Tommy: Right.

[1:07:50] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You know I mean but in the show like because their love is so strong that they are then able to, you know I mean power through and then like and it's it's good it's good and and they're able to like they give you an intermission because we take a break from the world of the show because we just see everyone singing the song, right?

[1:08:09] Tommy: It it serves the same psychological purpose that intermission often does but they did it in the movie by writing a song for it.

[1:08:16] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like, it's so canny.

[1:08:18] Tommy: Like, uh anyone who is is adapting a stage musical to a movie musical needs to study Reefer Madness.

[1:08:25] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Absolutely.

[1:08:26] Tommy: Like, it's a really interesting dramaturgical uh uh thing.

[1:08:30] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like it is a really really good um yeah.

[1:08:33] Tommy: Um one of the ones I am sad that isn't in it.

[1:08:37] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I don't know how they could have done it.

[1:08:40] Tommy: But I think they could have is lullaby.

[1:08:43] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Uh with the kid.

[1:08:46] Tommy: It's just a genius idea for a song.

[1:08:49] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: If you've ever if you've only ever seen the movie, um what's her name?

[1:08:53] Tommy: I already called it.

[1:08:54] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Sally Sally.

[1:08:55] Tommy: Damn body.

[1:08:56] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, it's so funny.

[1:08:58] Tommy: And it's such a joke.

[1:08:59] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You don't know it's gonna be a running joke all the way through.

[1:09:01] Tommy: Damn lamppost.

[1:09:03] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um Sally's baby has a song in the stage musical.

[1:09:07] Tommy: It does.

[1:09:08] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It does.

[1:09:09] Tommy: Um, so it it basically covers the scene where Sally sells the baby.

[1:09:13] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right.

[1:09:14] Tommy: Um that's how the that was the song spot for this.

[1:09:18] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right.

[1:09:19] Tommy: Um it is really it's a good funny sketch song.

[1:09:25] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You know what I mean?

[1:09:25] Tommy: And it is like this movie lives on uh subverting your expectations every other scene.

[1:09:34] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like the run through of this movie is like you don't expect the zombies to break through the window at the very beginning.

[1:09:34] Tommy: Right.

[1:09:34] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You don't expect the orgy to be this whole flash thing.

[1:09:44] Tommy: You don't expect Jesus in heaven to exist.

[1:09:48] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You don't expect the animated sequence.

[1:09:50] Tommy: You know, like every turn it needs to throw something at you that you're not expecting, and the baby one would have been a good one.

[1:09:58] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Very much.

[1:09:59] Tommy: And I think like they could have done it.

[1:10:01] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: They could have done it.

[1:10:01] Tommy: It's so short.

[1:10:02] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: They could have done it right in the scene they have where it's I mean, it's such a like as she It's such a fascinating, like they do a very racist thing, but it but it's because the intended creators of the movie would have been racist.

[1:10:18] Tommy: Exactly, that's the thing.

[1:10:19] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And like the the um it the sort of well, it's more of a conversation.

[1:10:26] Tommy: I was gonna say the drowsy chaperone it.

[1:10:28] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[1:10:28] Tommy: But actually there's more of a conversation to be had with Drowsy Chaperone.

[1:10:31] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: They they maybe do it a bit better because they have um an Asian woman in the like audience of watching the film, um, and it kind of pans back to her and she's like she like reacts poorly to it.

[1:10:43] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:10:43] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: This is awkward.

[1:10:44] Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

[1:10:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And like so it's it's saying like, oh, this was an offensive thing that they would have done in the film.

[1:10:49] Tommy: Right.

[1:10:49] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It wasn't just like let's laugh at it, like let's make this the butt of the joke.

[1:10:49] Tommy: It absolutely wasn't.

[1:10:49] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: The butt of the joke became and they do that, they do that a couple of times in the movie at the very end when the worlds have kind of blended together and they're like marching towards the book burning both the the parents in the classroom and the characters in the thing, and they're all like marching, and there's like two black kids who run out of their home and their parents rest out.

[1:11:13] Tommy: Yeah, but full black family.

[1:11:14] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, like and the parents run out and like grab them and like pull them back inside, and it's like a quarter of a second, and it's it is a joke and commentary.

[1:11:23] Tommy: Uh it is full blown c because you're also like, oh, they're the first black people who have seen the whole film.

[1:11:28] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right.

[1:11:28] Tommy: And I'm like, yeah, that's a choice.

[1:11:30] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right, and you're like, oh, that's why exactly.

[1:11:33] Tommy: Like it is so smart.

[1:11:36] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And I that's the thing, is because I think the um the film maybe more so than the stage musical, um really hits in on this propaganda commentary because they have these other scenes with Alan Cumming um in between where he's talking to the actual audience.

[1:11:55] Tommy: Right.

[1:11:55] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um because in the stage musical, the audience is you the audience.

[1:11:59] Tommy: Right.

[1:12:00] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um but they become characters in the the film.

[1:12:03] Tommy: Um and he has some of these moments where is it's like there's a bit of McCarthyism brought in, you know, there's lots of comic chat and um it's really smart the way that they did that, and it really hits home this commentary of anti-propaganda and it does it, the the movie never ever, the musical, both, they never say like the war on drugs was manufactured.

[1:12:34] Tommy: They never say dislike of marijuana is a you know racist capitalistic uh uh existence of the United States.

[1:12:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Not once do they say that out loud.

[1:12:47] Tommy: Nor I mean, honestly, nor do they ever even really insinuate it.

[1:12:53] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Absolutely.

[1:12:54] Tommy: They just they give you the fact that they show they show you what it what had happened, and they compare it to things you know that like nowadays we know McCarthyism and all this shit, like is overblown.

[1:13:04] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And so then and then maybe at the very end, Alan Cummings says when danger's near, exploit their fear.

[1:13:10] Tommy: Um but that's it.

[1:13:13] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, absolutely.

[1:13:14] Tommy: And it's in like such tiny moments.

[1:13:16] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: There's a moment at the very beginning where one of the um that was the other thing I meant to say, like one of the other great turns they do in translating this for the screen is by casting the audience and making them characters.

[1:13:27] Tommy: Um like it's such a simple, clever turn, and then creating those scenes you had mentioned.

[1:13:32] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um but one of the characters is like reading the pamphlet that came out, and she's like, Ma re ma reju Ma re and like that's it.

[1:13:44] Tommy: But they're telling you who these people are, right?

[1:13:47] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Exactly.

[1:13:48] Tommy: It's so it's so cleverly written.

[1:13:51] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's so well done.

[1:13:52] Tommy: Really clever, yeah, yeah, deeply intelligent.

[1:13:55] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um just a couple of things, just one lapshade.

[1:13:59] Tommy: Is that the right term?

[1:14:01] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Lampshade is uh it comes from uh it it's pointing out the thing in the movie that shouldn't be there, but because you pointed it out, that makes it okay that it could be there.

[1:14:11] Tommy: Oh, interesting.

[1:14:12] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That's not what I meant.

[1:14:12] Tommy: But I mean like spotlight.

[1:14:13] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I mean spot, I mean the opposite of I mean I want the light to go bright.

[1:14:17] Tommy: Um couple things about spotlight.

[1:14:19] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Uh number one, uh Chris and Bell.

[1:14:21] Tommy: Ah So this is early Kristen Bell, right?

[1:14:24] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: This is before she was terribly famous.

[1:14:26] Tommy: Right.

[1:14:27] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like, definitely before Frozen, definitely before Good Place.

[1:14:31] Tommy: Before Heroes as well, I guess.

[1:14:32] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: So like, because I the first thing I saw in was Heroes.

[1:14:35] Tommy: I don't know what she did before.

[1:14:37] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Was she like a kid actor or that's a good question?

[1:14:39] Tommy: I don't know her something before Heroes.

[1:14:42] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I don't think she's Nickelodeon.

[1:14:43] Tommy: Veronica Mars.

[1:14:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Oh, of course.

[1:14:47] Tommy: Well, I didn't watch that.

[1:14:48] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: So this was you know, she was new, she was still new to me.

[1:14:52] Tommy: Um but I guess if you're not a kid.

[1:14:56] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[1:14:57] Tommy: Right?

[1:14:57] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You wouldn't, parents wouldn't re may maybe know who she was.

[1:15:00] Tommy: Anyway, let's just talk about how great she is.

[1:15:03] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: She's so good.

[1:15:04] Tommy: I wish I wish we could see more of this Kristen Bell musical theater performer.

[1:15:12] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[1:15:12] Tommy: You know?

[1:15:13] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Cause because you don't get this in Frozen.

[1:15:16] Tommy: Um no, I mean l she's extremely.

[1:15:20] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Great and frozen, and you don't see her full, you know, uh uh acting chops.

[1:15:25] Tommy: No, you do not.

[1:15:26] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And dancing chops.

[1:15:27] Tommy: Yes, great dancing.

[1:15:29] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Did not expect that.

[1:15:32] Tommy: Very good.

[1:15:33] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[1:15:33] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:15:33] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Very, very good.

[1:15:34] Tommy: Um and it is, it's like it's interesting, like, because obviously when you when you become a Disney princess, you become a Disney princess.

[1:15:42] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: So now every I think everyone thinks Kristen Bell is a you know this very angelic and wholesome.

[1:15:48] Tommy: Right.

[1:15:49] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Then you watch her hot ones interview and you realize, oh that isn't the case.

[1:15:52] Tommy: Do you know?

[1:15:53] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I mean, and she's very irreverent, and then you find that she's in refer madness, you're like, oh, that's her.

[1:16:00] Tommy: Like, and it's r like that's the thing, it's like she's very, very gosh, she's so good at it.

[1:16:06] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um great range, like when she has the flip after she um smokes pop and then becomes a dominatrix is like is a cinematic masterpiece.

[1:16:18] Tommy: It is, it truly is.

[1:16:20] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um yeah, it's a shame the guy playing Ralph isn't a better singer because in the LA cast recording, that is potentially one of my favorite vocal moments.

[1:16:31] Tommy: The vocal songs um is that song because it is the harmonies are really good in it.

[1:16:36] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[1:16:36] Tommy: Um, but the Kathleen Ralph in the film doesn't quite have the vocal chops.

[1:16:40] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That's fair.

[1:16:41] Tommy: It's also the Ralph in the LA one.

[1:16:45] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Is he?

[1:16:45] Tommy: Yes.

[1:16:47] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Him and That's weird.

[1:16:48] Tommy: Him and Jimmy are the only they have played that role in I mean, all the big productions of it.

[1:16:55] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Interesting, because he sounds so much better in LA.

[1:16:59] Tommy: I agree.

[1:17:00] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: He did something to his voice.

[1:17:03] Tommy: I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure I don't know.

[1:17:06] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: But yeah, gone are those days of Disney Princess in that number, you know, and she does it extremely well.

[1:17:13] Tommy: It's such a good switch.

[1:17:14] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like it's a different character that she's like it's really well done.

[1:17:19] Tommy: Um and she didn't need to.

[1:17:22] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like that's the that's what I people the all of them go so hard in this movie in ways that like they didn't really need to, but it sells it that much more.

[1:17:31] Tommy: Like fucking Alan Cumming and all of his 30 different characters.

[1:17:35] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Oh my god, absolutely.

[1:17:36] Tommy: One of my favorite Alan Cumming turns now, I think.

[1:17:38] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Oh yes.

[1:17:40] Tommy: Like it is really he's really This is one of my favorite things he's in.

[1:17:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[1:17:45] Tommy: Um I think talking about going hard, I think my favorite performance in this is Anna Gaston.

[1:17:51] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Oh, it's I it's she gets it really right.

[1:17:55] Tommy: Yes, yes.

[1:17:56] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um you know.

[1:17:58] Tommy: Yeah, she really does.

[1:17:59] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That's that old Hollywood send up.

[1:18:01] Tommy: Yes.

[1:18:02] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like, she does some she has some really good moments of just her speech delivery, which is so nuanced to that style.

[1:18:09] Tommy: Um it's uh a really and it's very consistent.

[1:18:13] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, you know, I mean it is very through, even in her vocals, even in her songs.

[1:18:18] Tommy: But then she can still have those moments where like I think like Jimmy has the gun and has the opportunity to kill Jack and she's like behind him and she's like trying to like be like, kill him, kill him, and like can still have these like super comedy moments that totally that don't leave this very honest and earnest character that she's playing.

[1:18:38] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Exactly.

[1:18:39] Tommy: It's so even when she's doused and covered in blood, she's still nailing it.

[1:18:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Like constant quote amongst my friend Griff.

[1:18:47] Tommy: I for one would like to hear what the blood spattered young woman has to say.

[1:18:55] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That's true.

[1:18:56] Tommy: Did you catch his quite important?

[1:18:58] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Did you catch his line?

[1:18:59] Tommy: A little orphan girl once told me that the sun would come out tomorrow.

[1:19:07] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: There must be there has to be a fact though.

[1:19:09] Tommy: Like, is he the most featured president of any any musical?

[1:19:13] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: We could look that up.

[1:19:14] Tommy: There was some that's a new listical for you.

[1:19:16] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: There was some uh Easter bonnet where they had a Roosevelt off between the Roosevelt from News and the Roosevelt from Annie that was on Broadway at the time.

[1:19:27] Tommy: Right.

[1:19:27] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, and it was the two Roosevelts and they had a rap battle, and I think it was a Hamilton parody.

[1:19:31] Tommy: It's terrible, but the idea of it is very funny.

[1:19:36] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I yeah, it is.

[1:19:38] Tommy: Um so he's in this.

[1:19:40] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: He's ca I mean he's like mentioned in Assassins.

[1:19:44] Tommy: He doesn't have a spoken line, but he could be there.

[1:19:47] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You know, you could you could have someone cast as that.

[1:19:49] Tommy: That's four.

[1:19:50] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[1:19:51] Tommy: That we know of.

[1:19:52] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: There's probably more makes a listicle.

[1:19:55] Tommy: Uh-oh.

[1:19:57] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: The top five.

[1:20:01] Tommy: I mean I love that.

[1:20:02] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: The top five Roosevelt representations of music.

[1:20:05] Tommy: You joke, and I'm nervous to say it out loud because my boyfriend has been pushing me maybe for the past four years to make this video that I've been planning.

[1:20:12] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Uh, but it is the top five musical theater Jesuses.

[1:20:15] Tommy: Um Well, I think that's fair.

[1:20:18] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And one of them is the Jesus in Reefer Madness.

[1:20:22] Tommy: And I hope he's number one.

[1:20:24] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I don't know if he would be number one.

[1:20:25] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That's from the re the where I know Reefer Madness Jesus from is from She's the Man.

[1:20:32] Tommy: Oh no way.

[1:20:32] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: So he is the original the one in the movie, I believe was the first Jack in LA.

[1:20:40] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yes.

[1:20:41] Tommy: He was.

[1:20:41] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And Jesus, because Jack and Jesus.

[1:20:43] Tommy: Because it's a simple character, yeah.

[1:20:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[1:20:45] Tommy: Um but yeah, sorry. Returning back to Ana Gesteyer, um, so I just just again, just as we'd like to do sometimes, just to put it in the show notes, um, she's really good pals with Big Seth.

[1:21:00] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um Rudetsky, that is.

[1:21:03] Tommy: Um, and uh uh she he got her doing this. I don't whether she did it first or he got her to do it. I don't know. Um anyway, she does this performance of a song called "One Mint Julep," and he does one of his classic Seth breakdowns of it, but she perform also performs it live in one of his things. I'll link to one of them. Anyway, such an incredible vocal turn. She is very talented. But uh you really see those act like vocal chops in at the end of the story.

[1:21:36] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I will say I think this is true, and I think it's unfortunate. Uh good actors who also have great singing voices, especially comedic actors, are often only known for their acting, like Ana Gesteyer. Where I would wager there is a corollary to that, where actors with great voices that might not be the best performers from an acting perspective. We simply only praise their voices. And I think I I I I think there's more nuance to it, but I think there's a bit of a double standard there. But I don't know if I would say that for Ana Gesteyer, because she's such a solid Elphaba.

[1:22:21] Tommy: Fair, fair.

[1:22:23] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: But I think people think of Ana Gesteyer more as a as a comedian, even.

[1:22:32] Tommy: I knew her first from Elphaba.

[1:22:37] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Fair. Okay. I think. And if I didn't, I didn't know where to do that. You know what I mean?

[1:22:43] Tommy: Like I didn't know well.

[1:22:45] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um yeah. Whereas you obviously know her like this.

[1:22:50] Tommy: From this and from Saturday Night Live and Yeah.

[1:22:54] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Because yeah, but like bear in mind, we don't get Saturday Night Live.

[1:22:56] Tommy: Fair.

[1:22:56] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Well, and she I think she was only out for a season. Um yeah, anyway, very good. And the last thing I want to talk about is the RJ.

[1:23:07] Tommy: Yes, what do you want to talk about it?

[1:23:09] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: What age would I have been in 2005?

[1:23:11] Tommy: Uh young.

[1:23:13] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I would have been so that was three years before. I left school in 2007, so I was 18.

[1:23:20] Tommy: So I would have been 16.

[1:23:21] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[1:23:23] Tommy: 16-year-old Jeffy really would have wanted this film. Listen, it's all I'm saying.

[1:23:31] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You know what I mean?

[1:23:32] Tommy: Yes, no, I know exactly what you mean, yes.

[1:23:35] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um yeah, that part of the DVD would break. You know, like the way it sometimes happens when you like track through a DVD and then it's it like breaks itself.

[1:23:47] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:23:47] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I I don't I I don't know that. What DVD have you broken before?

[1:23:52] Tommy: Um weirdly Dream Girls.

[1:23:56] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Not for that reason, just because I like some of the songs.

[1:23:59] Tommy: Oh that's not a good one.

[1:24:01] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I was so sad when I discovered that.

[1:24:02] Tommy: That was not the answer I was expecting.

[1:24:04] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I know exactly uh Dream Girls. Um no, I really, really love some of the songs in Dream Girls, so it would just get back. Because this is pre Spotify, you know, it's the only it's the only way you got to watch it. It's the only way but I like to watch, you know, I like to I wanted to watch the visuals as well as listen to this.

[1:24:20] Tommy: So we'll we'll rewind.

[1:24:22] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Rewind as a function. Anyway. Um yeah. But also just to say, like the art is one of my favorite songs actually in in the show. Very well done. It's it's it's really really good.

[1:24:31] Tommy: The um the Mezzoin duet that they sing and becomes a kind of trio in the film. Um is extremely good.

[1:24:43] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah. It's just a bit of like vocal chop. My favorite vocal moment is near the end of it. It's like uh there's a it's almost a fugue uh at the end of murder. Um and like Jack has this like counterpoint to the whole thing when like the zombie kids are are coming. Um and it's like so much other stuff is going on that you don't even have the time to appreciate the music. But the music's real good too.

[1:25:10] Tommy: It's really really good.

[1:25:11] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, in fact, that that moment in murder and what's the song before the RJ, like Jimmy takes a hit or something like that.

[1:25:18] Tommy: Oh yeah, take a toca tea stick, take a toca tea stick.

[1:25:21] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That one?

[1:25:22] Tommy: Smoke it. You may choke it first, but then the worst is over.

[1:25:25] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's real good, yeah.

[1:25:26] Tommy: Right.

[1:25:26] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's just really good writing.

[1:25:28] Tommy: Yeah. We've not we've not bummed a show this hard in a long time.

[1:25:32] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I know.

[1:25:33] Tommy: Not not since Great Comet.

[1:25:37] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: No, we'll have done stuff in between then.

[1:25:40] Tommy: I like But like universally I will I will say unequivocally, I like this show as much as I like Great Comet.

[1:25:48] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That's fair.

[1:25:49] Tommy: I'm I've only seen it once, I'm not ready to make such statements, Jimmy.

[1:25:53] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, but I really enjoyed it. Uh right. Let's talk about weed.

[1:26:03] Tommy: Oh merry ching.

[1:26:05] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You crumpled me like cellophane.

[1:26:09] Tommy: You stir me up like Beef Chow Mein.

[1:26:13] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You wreck me, Mary Jane.

[1:26:17] Tommy: Merry Jane, no merry chain.

[1:26:21] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Conquered me like Charlemagne.

[1:26:25] Tommy: Pleasure entwined with pain.

[1:26:29] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You wreck me, Mary Jane.

[1:26:33] Tommy: Your toxic kisses make my heart waste in a child.

[1:26:41] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I stapled and swindled, my willpower's dwindled, meltdown's down, like hat fell feeder.

[1:26:55] Tommy: Got my future down the drain.

[1:26:59] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Excuse me like I can't chapstain, but I need you.

[1:27:05] Tommy: I love you.

[1:27:11] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Love by Mary, I merry love by Mary Lake.

[1:27:35] Tommy: Weed.

[1:27:36] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um someone get me some fucking weed.

[1:27:42] Tommy: Do you know that reference?

[1:27:43] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: No.

[1:27:45] Tommy: Okay.

[1:27:46] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: No, I thought that was just you being weird.

[1:27:49] Tommy: Oh, okay.

[1:27:49] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: No, uh, that was me being freckle.

[1:27:51] Tommy: Oh, okay.

[1:27:52] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Uh from The Life and Times of Caleb Gallo.

[1:27:54] Tommy: Uh huh.

[1:27:54] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Which is a fantastic um piece of gay YouTube cinema.

[1:27:58] Tommy: Yeah, you need to watch The Life and Times of Caleb Gallo.

[1:28:01] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, no, I know nothing about that.

[1:28:03] Tommy: Oh, it's really good. It's um uh Brian uh John Alvarez.

[1:28:09] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: What's his last name?

[1:28:10] Tommy: Brian David Alvarez Brian David Alvar? John David Gilbert.

[1:28:14] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I have tried to watch this.

[1:28:15] Tommy: I don't remember.

[1:28:17] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Oh, you didn't like it.

[1:28:17] Tommy: I don't it was a while ago.

[1:28:19] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Okay.

[1:28:20] Tommy: It's a very specific type of humor.

[1:28:22] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, no, that's fair.

[1:28:23] Tommy: But this seems right up there with uh uh submissions only.

[1:28:27] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um if you like submissions only, you could probably call it that.

[1:28:32] Tommy: It's it's it's a bit more left field.

[1:28:34] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Okay, sure.

[1:28:35] Tommy: But it's also a bit more queer, so you know, yeah.

[1:28:37] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Balance this out.

[1:28:39] Tommy: Um I love it. I watch it like monthly. Um it's really good. Um anyway. So weed.

[1:28:47] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I mean what? I'm the token Colorado person now, so I must be a pot.

[1:28:57] Tommy: I'm really good at putting.

[1:28:59] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Okay. Listen.

[1:29:00] Tommy: Uh huh.

[1:29:01] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Come on.

[1:29:02] Tommy: That was no second in between.

[1:29:06] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Thank you. I am Mamory Hart.

[1:29:07] Tommy: That's fair.

[1:29:08] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That's fair. Um, so like, I think there's some context too to give. Um, and and I'm gonna break this in a second, but like, full disclosure, weed is d is legal recreationally in Colorado, famously, um, as it is in many other states, but Colorado was early on. I did not move here because of the weed. Um there what is interesting, and I think we will see this come to a uh uh probably a lawsuit in the next couple years. Um several employers, my current one included, have provisions in their contracts that forbid you from doing weed.

[1:29:45] Tommy: Um they say full stop full stop. You cannot ever test positive for weed.

[1:29:51] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Now, my workplace doesn't test. They reserve the right to, but they do not. Okay. The tough part is what they want is they don't want you to be high on the job, which makes sense. Right. They don't want you to be drunk on the job. Um the rub is, and this is uh been a huge problem in uh marijuana, is you can test if someone's drunk right now. We don't have a are you high test. We only have a have you smoked in the past month test. Which is really difficult, right?

[1:30:27] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: So so there is no know anything. There's this is all breaking. There's no way to conclusively know. So a lot of employers run into this problem, right? They don't want you to be high on the job, but they can't legally test if you're high on the job. They can only know if you've been high in the past month, and so their provisions are you can never test positive on this test, basically. Um the way a lot of employers, and I think sensibly get around this is they just don't test. Um but they still have the provision for whether it's legacy or whatever, you know. I haven't heard story of anyone being fired for one of these tests in Colorado since I've lived here for the past four or five years.

[1:31:07] Tommy: Right.

[1:31:07] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: But you bet your bottom dollar, if and when that does happen, that will be the Supreme Court case that climbs up the ladder. All this to say, I have done pot. Um rarely, honestly, um, because I get real fucking high on very little.

[1:31:28] Tommy: Um we've heard you on the podcast, nobody wants that.

[1:31:32] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Nobody wants that. There's nothing. Um yeah, I just totally, you know, it's gone. You know, it's you know, always very a very exciting thing. Um it's usually a special occasion thing, or a I did uh the you know the last time I got high, Jimmy was uh the night of the election, and it was very relaxing and a I think that would be a wonderful test great way to take my mind off the state of the world.

[1:31:54] Tommy: Exactly, exactly. But it is it's really interesting to follow the journey of marijuana in America because it is this like boogeyman drug. Um that like wink wink nudge nudge, everyone has kind of known that has it has been this boogeyman drug. Um but the you know, the whether you want to call them prohibitionists or republicans, um or and and everywhere in between for the past you know more than half a century, have like pushed this uh temperance narrative. Um which is, you know, fascinating to watch. Like how, you know, who does mandate your morals, um, and like who should mandate your morals and where do we draw these lines?

[1:32:41] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um and certainly that's a huge discussion of this thing, is like the if you asked anyone who did say don't do pot, they would explain to you that it is a moral thing, right? Jesus doesn't want you to do it or it is a quote unquote bad thing to do.

[1:32:55] Tommy: Absolutely.

[1:32:56] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: But we do learn through history that like a lot of it is explicitly based in racism or some capitalistic um, you know, uh it was uh uh from my understanding, certainly not well studied in this, uh just past the turn of the last century, we had a lot of Mexican immigrants um who would do marijuana recreationally, um, and then it got kind of caught up in the the the same sort of racist sentiment we have towards Mexico today as America.

[1:33:23] Tommy: Um nothing's changed.

[1:33:25] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Then there's also, and this is why they quote uh William Randolph Hearst a lot in this. My understanding is hemp, like industrial marijuana was going to be used frequently very useful for rope and paper and a couple other things, and was threatening a lot of his business endeavors for the competing products. And so by making by making pot a drug, even it allowed him to bolster up his own business endeavors. Um I've I've read the same things, so that I think the problem. And this literally is the seed that has spiraled out of control into the quote unquote war on drugs.

[1:34:03] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, my favorite contemporary take on this is like we probably will federally legalize marijuana in the next eight years because it's legal in enough states, and this is how shit happens in America. Like, this is how gay marriage happened. Once it gets legal in enough individual places, you end up with so many complicating factors between different states that then eventually the federal government is like, fine, we'll make a rule. Like, that's just kind of how the gears of American politics work. Um, but my favorite take, I think it was a TikTok, was like, who would have thought that in the fifty-year war on drugs that drugs would win?

[1:34:44] Tommy: Well, that's so funny.

[1:34:45] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And it's just true. Yeah, that reminded me just briefly of the um community sketch. Uh, using community.

[1:34:51] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:34:54] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: So it's the um when brother doing the like anti-drugs show to the kids, and the kids are all like, I love you drugs. So maybe that, but yeah, you're totally right. Like I think it's uh, I was doing a bit of research on it, and um something like thirty-five states it's legal ill um legal medically. And then I think some like fifteen it's legal recreationally, but then you run into problems counting, right? And there's, you know, different laws pending and stuff. Um, but then you start to, I think New Jersey's just gonna be going like today.

[1:35:30] Tommy: Yeah, I know Illinois switched over my home state recently.

[1:35:34] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, somewhere on the spectrum. But you can see how that starts to run it. You run into problems like if it's legal medically, then possession can no longer be illegal. Um, like are you gonna go eventually it just gets too much to keep up with? But there are, and it's been a minute since I've really looked into some of this stuff, but there are weird idiosyncrasies to it that you never even think about. Um, so pot is illegal according to our federal government. Um, which has some minor repercussions that like you can't smoke in a national park. Um, which probably no one should smoke in a national park anyway, that's how we get forest fires.

[1:36:10] Tommy: Right.

[1:36:11] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, but it also means uh financial institutions that are federally insured cannot accept money from cannabis-based businesses.

[1:36:21] Tommy: Oh.

[1:36:21] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: So big banks won't do business with pot operations. Uh, so most, if not all, dispensaries only accept cash.

[1:36:36] Tommy: Interesting.

[1:36:37] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And that yes. There was one that is a sponsor of a podcast, and they only accepted, they could, well you could venture. Right, they've got some other things, but basically it's cash based. And uh, because they can't put the money in the bank, where do you put the money? Well, one of the things you can do is purchase property, and so you end up with this weird situation in a lot of places in Denver. Because like you can't, you can't put the money in the bank. You can't invest it, right? Because these are all federally insured things. But you can just like buy a house.

[1:37:11] Tommy: Spend it.

[1:37:12] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And it is safer to own the house than a stack of cash.

[1:37:16] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:37:17] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: So there are these like little pockets of like a, you know, uh manufacturing outfit will purchase this suburban house and literally turn it into a grow house because that's the most productive way they can use this property, and it's this like suburban home that's right next to everything else where they're just growing pot inside of it.

[1:37:36] Tommy: Fascinating.

[1:37:37] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Isn't that nuts?

[1:37:39] Tommy: Yes, it is nuts. You just get these wild, like fall through the crack sort of things that you'd never think of. Um, that are just how people are surviving in this kind of illegal industry. Well, this is it, so it's so I the thing I wanted to talk about with this was I think my mind's changed this evening. Um, over the course of researching the show, and I honestly think that. So I was really anti weed um for a long like majority of my life. Um, and then in the past like couple of years, because it's obviously still illegal here, right? In the past couple of years or so, I know a few more of my friends that do enjoy it and speak to, but you know, and it's that class thing of like speaking to people who you respect, right?

And we'll have these conversations and you're like, well, yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I know this is just this weird Catholic guilt, even though I'm not a Catholic, like is that exactly like I and I am I am a very by the book kind of person.

[1:38:44] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, weirdly Reefer Madness has put it into perspective, and it's like, no, you have just been being lied to. Like that there isn't, there's no evidence of this, you know, being bad at all. Like it might make you, it might not make you speedy when it comes to calculations if you take it a lot. You know, I mean, like sure. But it is it is even more, and if I can convince you for a second, because parts of America are turning down this road too, that your conclusion is a great one, and don't lose it, right? Weed is not terribly dangerous. It is certainly less dangerous than cigarettes, then literally every other drug alcohol, um, like then some than some stuff that has just been legal for a long time. Just because of the idiosyncrasies of history, it's been used as you know, an oppressive tool. But um, so I think it's uh Oregon in America this year, decriminalized all drugs. All of them.

[1:39:47] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[1:39:48] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um.

[1:39:48] Tommy: And this is the second part of the discussion, right?

[1:39:52] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yes. Even if weed was bad for you. What or made you do the things that Reefer Madness insinuates it does? Sends you on a murderous rampage, right? Which clearly even the movie itself insinuates is an accident. Um, what should the punishment for that be? And as America, the America that we are, our the punishment we decide on is jail. Which is such a, well, depending on who you are. Right, depending upon the color of your skin. Um, call a horse a horse. Um, which is such an ass backwards interpretation of like the need for human good, right? Like, okay, you're addicted to black tar heroin. What should humanity do? What would be the best thing to do for humanity? Help you.

[1:40:46] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:40:47] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Help you not be addicted to black tar heroin. Because it's bad for you.

[1:40:52] Tommy: Exactly.

[1:40:52] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That's the thing we do with cigarettes. That's the thing we try to do, we pretend to do. You're addicted to cigarettes. What are we gonna do? We're gonna get you off the cigarettes. You know, what are we gonna do with alcohol? Alcoholics Anonymous. We're gonna get you off your addiction, right? But we've decided there's this, you know, it's the whole uh, uh criminalization of crack epidemic and how it, you know, put a huge uh, uh black population of America in jail. Not not because of crack, but because we're a racist country and we've someone saw it as a tool of oppression. Um, pot's the same thing. And so like, in order to unpack any medical understanding of it, we first have to uh undo the, you know, other like bullshit racist temperist uh, uh, uh connotations that go along with it.

[1:41:47] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:41:48] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You know, you could draw a line about uh, you know, divide a piece of paper in two and put drugs on one side you do get arrested for and drugs on the other side you don't get arrested for, and then determine what col what is the primary skin color of the people who do those drugs, and you bet your bottom dollar which way it falls.

[1:42:06] Tommy: For goodness sake, of course, like there's the there ain't no question there.

[1:42:10] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: No, I th I think you're totally right. And that's um with this argument, and it's it's it's a really interesting thing because we're getting um obviously all all drugs apart from alcohol and uh cigarettes are illegal over here. Um and uh but we're we're aware that there's a huge drug problem in the UK. Um to the point where like our music festivals now have um like safe spaces where you can take drugs safely.

[1:42:34] Tommy: That's great.

[1:42:45] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Because they know at music festivals people are going to take drugs. And there's that you know, you'll be educated when you go there as to what you're doing. Might not be the best thing that you should be doing, but you're not going to be slung into a prison.

[1:42:58] Tommy: Right.

[1:42:59] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, the thing that I find interesting about the whole thing, and I tried to find some articles on this, there were uh, there weren't a huge amount, and a lot of them weren't particularly recent. Um, but it is sort of the worldwide perspective on this. Um, obviously America's a powerful country. Right. And uh in the 30s when this war on drugs began, um it was it was a powerful country.

[1:43:32] Tommy: Absolutely.

[1:43:33] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, but worldwide there's still a very negative opinion about weed.

[1:43:42] Tommy: Interesting.

[1:43:43] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Um, like there's no, as far as I could see, right, there's no place where it is the like of course. You know I mean like it's a given do it in Amsterdam. Um, you can do it in cafes, select cafes in Amsterdam.

[1:44:01] Tommy: I mean that's how it is here too.

[1:44:02] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You can't just, but I mean like there's no place where it's just the equivalent of a cigarette or the equivalent of—

[1:44:02] Tommy: Perhaps this is news.

[1:44:11] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's the same way here in Colorado. It's a significant problem. There are, it's not you can only smoke. There are d, you cannot smoke in public.

[1:44:27] Tommy: Interesting.

[1:44:28] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You know you like the only place you officially can smoke ha for a long time was a private residence.

[1:44:36] Tommy: And only recent—

[1:44:36] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Are you talking about smoking in cigarettes?

[1:44:40] Tommy: No, you can't smoke cigarettes anywhere here.

[1:44:43] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I'm talking about pot.

[1:44:45] Tommy: Right, no but that's not that's what I mean. So I like I mean I want to know the place where you can like walk down the street.

[1:44:52] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right, exactly because the thing is is it there's no in the same way that there definitely is with um nicotine cigarettes. There's no secondhand there is um issues.

[1:45:04] Tommy: Well uh not in a not if you're outdoors.

[1:45:04] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: There is. Um, you can get a con you can get a contact high if you're near someone smoking a blunt. It's not nearly as bad for you as secondhand smoke is.

[1:45:15] Tommy: Even if you were outdoors?

[1:45:16] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I mean sure.

[1:45:19] Tommy: Really?

[1:45:20] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I would be surprised at that.

[1:45:21] Tommy: Yeah, I would be surprised at that. But fair, okay.

[1:45:22] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It's nowhere near like it's nothing dangerous. Like I don't I don't mean this as a as a as a uh, uh, uh an excuse for it.

[1:45:32] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[1:45:33] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Okay, well fair. Well then maybe that's a different thing then. Maybe that isn't, but I just I would wonder, like uh because there are so many benefits to uh like THC and um is there a place where people are really getting those benefits.

[1:45:53] Tommy: Yes.

[1:45:53] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: You know, I mean in a very common non-judgmental way. It has been interesting, uh because Coral Colorado was so early on just the recreational end of things, um, you for a long time and still to this day, Colorado got a lot of uh medical tourism. Um, where like pot might help you with your whatever, and so you move here or you take a vacation here to like go to the hospital and get treated for your thing, and it's weird. Doctors can't prescribe pot in Colorado, I believe is my understanding.

[1:46:36] Tommy: Um, but you can bring it in.

[1:46:39] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: And different hospitals have different rules about like what they can and can't recommend. Although all most medical places will be like, but please tell us what you're doing because everything affects everything. So we just we need to know what you're doing.

[1:46:52] Tommy: Um, exactly.

[1:46:53] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: But it is such a fascinating, you know, we're in this transitionary period between it being taboo to it being commonplace. Um, there's a lot of um, uh you know, there's a there's a racial justice side to that too, because like the honestly, the reason pot is becoming legal is because white people said it was okay. Um, and there's this huge injustice of like all the pot shops are owned by white people and all the, you know, and it's been used as an impressive tool for black people, and like Colorado, I think just this year expunged a bunch of like low-level marijuana possession convictions, and it's been legal here for how long?

[1:47:34] Tommy: Yeah, like that's nuts.

[1:47:37] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: It is nuts, it's nonsense.

[1:47:39] Tommy: Um, but yeah, I just cause I mean I don't I I I I don't know enough and I do need to learn a lot more. Um, but like I don't think it's being used here as a means of racial oppression.

[1:47:53] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Interesting. Do you know what I mean?

[1:47:54] Tommy: Because we don't have the same historic racism issue. We do have racism issue absolutely but it's a very different racism issue and it's controlled in a very different way. Um and I don't think uh like weed or just drugs in general is it's much more of a class thing, like that's where our issue is is that like it isn't our rich people that are well, they're taking cocaine um and that's fine, but it's the people who are taking um meth and heroin that are the scourge of the country, you know what I mean? Um and should be shipped out and not helped. Like that's the that's their controlling that I would say our biggest issue is. Um but like if we I don't know, I just think if weed was legal here, I I don't know what would change other than people's perspective. Because that's the thing is like I still feel weird when I'm around someone who's smoking weed and I still feel like I'm gonna get arrested.

[1:48:57] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right.

[1:48:57] Tommy: Do you know that's what I feel like that's what I feel. Um and to be fair, it is still illegal here, right? But I know if I came to visit you in Colorado and everyone was smoking weed, I'd be like, I want to leave. Like and I just would because I'm not used to it. And there's no reason because it's just the propaganda film that I've been getting. I felt that way about cigarettes when I went to college, just because I grew up in a very non-smoking environment. And like just seeing people smoke cigarettes casually. I remember early on, I was like, oh god, oh, oh my god, I didn't even realize this is a real thing.

[1:49:36] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[1:49:36] Tommy: Um it's a but it's it it it's weird because like I so I I did grow up in a smoking household. Um smoking cigarettes is very commonplace in my life. Um my parent who did smoke no longer smokes, they're like someone like nine almost ten years, I think on some amazing going hypnotherapy is the way forward to um and uh yeah, so that to me, totally normal, totally fine. Understand it's the worst thing, understand yep, probably gonna get cancer. Um but it's it why is it that this other thing that has no real Do you know what I mean? Um and it's uh interesting actually because it's something uh it's uh a kind of what's that word, not dissociation. Uh what am I it I think it begins with um like dissonance dissonance cognitive dissonance yes um that I'm starting to have with alcohol actually because I kind of stopped drinking alcohol um and will only do it on special occasions, you know what I mean?

And like um and even then I'll never get drunk absolutely not um and my opinion on that and other people drinking lots to get drunk is starting to change and it's starting to go the way of weight where I'm like this is actually feels awkward and I don't really want to be around us anywhere. And it's that I think is more healthy and it's more of a it's a better uh frame of mind to be in judging people who are you know and uh I like getting really stoned is different than you know, having a couple of gummies or to to say like you know, as an educator I do feel this is important to say it, like pot has negative health consequences, can have negative health consequences. If you're like listen, listen to me, children of the world.

It's me, Uncle Tommy, here to tell you the actual truth. Don't smoke pot in high school. Don't smoke pot in high school. Not because not because I'm judging you for it or because I don't think you won't enjoy it, but because your brain is still growing and the longer you can wait to do honestly any of these drugs, the healthier adult you're gonna be. Um like but like that's really easy messaging. We can just tell kids that and and I'm really just like oh you shouldn't do that. Do you know why? Just because it like it's just it's not the right time. Like just wait. You're not gonna get much out of it just now anyway. So if you've started, like, just stop, you know, or hold back or do it less if you can, you know.

[1:52:27] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Exactly.

[1:52:28] Tommy: But we don't there's plenty of other risky activities that you can do safely. Well, and that's I mean, that's the thing we don't tell kids enough that I try really hard to do. It's like I've I there's literally a lesson I teach kids maybe once a month. Your pre your prefrontal cortex is the front part of your brain, it's the part that's in charge of impulse control, and it's also one of the last parts of your brain to develop. And it's why high school kids stand on tables or drive cars fast. And if someone just told you that your impulse control hasn't developed yet, you might be able to metacognetize that a little more and develop your impulse control a little fucking better. But we don't tell kids that we just say like, oh you're impulsive, as if it's like a natural human state and not like a naughty unit of high derey function of biology. Um anyway, soapbox aside.

[1:53:15] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[1:53:18] Tommy: Let's all smoke weed. I don't know what the moral of the story is. I don't know what the world is. Um but no, it's just I weird to bring it back to musical theater, um, weirdly grateful for the show, and it was something that I wasn't expecting, but it has definitely because this is a journey I've been going on, you know, the past like five years maybe, um, of reframing my thinking about this and actually think, well, what is the truth? And let's, you know, get some facts about this as opposed to just seeing like it's the law full stop.

[1:53:48] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Totally.

[1:53:48] Tommy: Totally. Um and I think if anyone is also having a similar struggle, uh, watch Reefer Madness. Do you you can cut this part out if you'd want. Uh if you when you visit Colorado, do you think you try a gummy?

[1:54:05] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I am getting closer to doing that. Yes. I think that's the thing, is like now knowing what edibles are, I I'm much more into that idea than uh actually physically smoking. Cause I'm a singer. Do you know I mean I just don't really want to take things as well. To be entirely honest, I have probably smoked pot.

[1:54:28] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:54:30] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Once I didn't like it.

[1:54:33] Tommy: Right.

[1:54:33] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right? Like.

[1:54:34] Tommy: Right.

[1:54:35] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: So I can't remember. I was watching something. Something set in LA anyway, and so I was like, oh yeah, nobody smokes pot anymore. Like but not in a sense of like nobody does pot anymore. It's just like nobody smoked pot. And I was like, that's really funny. And it is it is seeing a it is seeing a resurgence with the uh the advent of vaping, which is a whole nother difficult uh uh topic to broach. Um it is, you know, you can get pot pods for your vape.

[1:55:04] Tommy: Yes, and so you see some smoking there, but like people I know people who smoke blunts, but gummies in other ways are are much more easy entry.

[1:55:17] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Right.

[1:55:17] Tommy: And um you've told me before that you get the little fizzy peaches and they're my favorite sweets.

[1:55:22] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yep, they're really good. I'm into it. Um no, I I I probably I I in all honesty, I probably would. Um but I I genuinely don't think I'd enjoy it.

[1:55:37] Tommy: Do you know what you do you know what we should do? I mean, no pressure, and I mean this honestly, but when you come visit, we should get some Peach Pot gummies and watch Reefer Madness.

[1:55:47] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Or Xana do.

[1:55:48] Tommy: Or Xana do, yeah. Or both, you know. Um but no, the reason the reason I think I I do I wouldn't like it, is because it would be for the same reasons I don't like being drunk.

[1:56:02] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Sure.

[1:56:03] Tommy: Um, I don't like being out of control.

[1:56:05] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah, that's fair.

[1:56:06] Tommy: And you can there is an element, not I'm not saying like I would be like a madness film. And it's and with pot it's the resell. With pot, it's fair to keep that in mind too, because you can swing more down the paranoid route, depending upon what kind of trip you get. Um and it's and it's important to be aware of that in yourself and to like think about that for sure.

[1:56:27] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Yeah.

[1:56:28] Tommy: Yeah. Um so yeah, who knows? When they write another weed musical, we'll cover my journey then.

[1:56:39] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: I'm very excited.

[1:56:42] Tommy: It's time for fairness to take us back for the fan service of this race plan.

[1:57:15] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: They're fear.

[1:57:41] Tommy: Well, Tommy. That was Reefer Madness. Don't know about you, but I'm blazed.

[1:57:47] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: That's what they say, isn't it? Dancing Zombies, Dancing Zombies.

[1:57:51] Tommy: I do love that um Was that a sidetrack? No, that was just a Tommy one.

[1:57:56] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Great.

[1:57:57] Tommy: We do say it out loud when we watch. I do love that it has become a meme unto itself of uh coming up with uh the electric lettuce uh or you know whatever the um uh uh fake name for pot is.

[1:58:13] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Oh, okay, yeah.

[1:58:14] Tommy: It's just a fun, a fun game. The one that I really liked was I can't remember what song it's in, but they say Mary Wanna and like Mary Want, and they did it like Mary Want to like Mary Wanna. I was like, that's clever. Anyway, we've said it's good enough. We know that it's good. What else is good? Well, I can tell you in the form of a quiz question.

[1:58:38] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: What how a novel idea.

[1:58:39] Tommy: As far as we can tell, Meryl Streep turn as the witch in the movie version of Sondheim's Into the Woods was her second role in one of Steve's shows. What was the first?

[1:58:52] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Who the hell knows?

[1:58:54] Tommy: Um, maybe you do. I if you want to get in touch with us. Not you. Them. Uh, if you want to get in touch with us, then please do. We would love to hear from you. Our show Twitter and Instagram is at Jim and Tomic. That is J-I-M-A-N-D-T-O-M-I-C. I should have done that in my Mickey Mouse voice. Anyway. Um, or you can drop us a email over on our website, Jim and Tomic.com. We also have merch. Also, we have a Discord. Head on over to the show notes for the invite. Get it quick. It expires soon. Don't worry if you miss it. There's always more in the future. Hooray. And well, you are over on our website. You can check out our Patreon if you'd like to financially support the show. And on our Patreon, if you subscribe to $5 or more, you will receive our video podcast called Last Call.

Which what did we do this week? We I just feel like it was all one division again. I feel like it was all one division again. It definitely wasn't though. Um I was gonna say, oh, we talk about Catherine Anne. That's because of One Division. It's not all about WandaVision. There's other things there. Um but hey, for the most part, we would just like to give a big big thank you and a big big shout out to all of our current patrons. We love you. And uh most of all, it really helps us when you tell your friends about the show. People really only find out about our show through word of mouth, and thank you for doing that. Yep, that's all. Well, thanks for listening. Tommy, cheers!

[2:00:47] Jimmy - ‘Reefer Madness’: Good boogers, Tommy.