This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Alex Smolowe: Hey, Nick.

[0:04] Nik Walker: I don't like this. I don't like this at all. And I want to be clear about that. I can see you.

[0:09] Nik Walker: Guys, so if what we're doing right now is we were recording a cold open over video. We're playing around with this because, you know, coming up, not now. You have a little while. Right. You have a little while, but coming up, we're gonna be, uh, we're gonna be taking the—what are we doing? Are we doing this visually?

[0:24] Alex Smolowe: We're elevating.

[0:27] Nik Walker: I see that's what he says. I feel like something, something Nike, something. We're, yeah, nope, nope. Pushing it to the limit.

[0:33] Alex Smolowe: Pushing it to the limit.

[0:34] Nik Walker: It's so weird seeing you like in how you talk.

[0:41] Alex Smolowe: Yeah.

[0:41] Nik Walker: Once you stop going from casual to performative, you like get up on the microphone and you're like, "That's right."

[0:41] Alex Smolowe: That's right, that's right.

[0:47] Nik Walker: You wanna give them a cut, you know, it's like coffee talk, you know.

[0:47] Alex Smolowe: Coffee talk.

[0:51] Nik Walker: Coffee talk. I've, uh, we're adding apparently we're gonna add a video element or, you know, go on TikTok or some shit. I don't know what the fuck we're doing.

[1:00] Alex Smolowe: Exclusive TikTok.

[1:03] Nik Walker: Can you imagine this goddamn podcast on TikTok?

[1:08] Alex Smolowe: I wouldn't. How would that work? What would we do? Twenty minutes of movie talks and then sea shanties.

[1:13] Nik Walker: This is what I think TikTok is. This is all I know of TikTok is people like to sing sea shanties.

[1:18] Alex Smolowe: Just singing sea shanties.

[1:19] Nik Walker: I think that's precisely what we do is sing sea shanties. I can't even say that word.

[1:24] Alex Smolowe: Cha shanties.

[1:26] Nik Walker: C shanties. It's also funny because our guest today, her name also starts with the shanty.

[1:34] Alex Smolowe: Sasha would be great at sea shanties.

[1:36] Nik Walker: Sasha was great. This is the first time we're recording our cold open in the future. Right, so this is in the future. So we recorded this with her a couple weeks ago.

[1:45] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, yeah.

[1:45] Nik Walker: I think two or three days after Biden was elected, which we referenced, and we're like, you know what? We need to be more timely with this. We need people, people need to, you know.

[1:55] Alex Smolowe: The people need to know.

[1:56] Nik Walker: And she came on and she was great. She was so great that we made it into a two-parter. So this is the first of two parts with our dear Sasha Hutchings.

[2:06] Nik Walker: Um, you know, I would prep you for the episode. The only thing I would really say is just know that like when she came on, she was already at a 10. So we literally just started recording. Like we didn't, there was no prep. There was no like get into it. It was just like the weirdest transition we've ever had from this to the song to like mid-conversation.

[2:25] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, just know, just know that we're not—there's yeah, there's no prep for this. We're just gonna go straight into it. As soon as the song's over, you're gonna hear a lot of laughing and bullshit. And I mean, I'm not sorry. Um, but, uh, you know, this is like the new little Nike Justice.

[2:43] Nik Walker: So, uh, little Nikes. So that's it. Somehow, somehow that's it. Little Justin. Little just it. Little just—fuck you.

[3:10] Nik Walker: So this is pointless. Like, we've already been talking for like 20 minutes. There's no point. Like, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Little Justice. I just want to be clear. Like, we were talking for a good ten minutes before we started rolling.

[3:25] Alex Smolowe: Some really good content, too.

[3:26] Nik Walker: Some great content, you know. No, it was just the West Wing. It was just talking about the West Wing again, like every single episode gets back to some episode of the West Wing.

[3:34] Alex Smolowe: Why don't you shut the fucking jack up?

[3:39] Nik Walker: The Jackal.

[3:39] Alex Smolowe: The Jackal.

[3:39] Nik Walker: Okay. So the Jackal's a song on the West Wing?

[3:42] Alex Smolowe: It's a song that CJ lip syncs to, "The Jackal," when they have a victory. And I was asking this question: what is the victory? I can't remember what they have just achieved. Do I need to look it up?

[3:55] Nik Walker: I think I need to look it up. Hang on.

[3:56] Alex Smolowe: That's what I was trying to do. And then all of a sudden I wasn't a part of the podcast anymore.

[4:01] Nik Walker: Yeah, you—Sasha disappeared. By the way, our guest today, we haven't even introduced her. It's Sasha Hutchings is our guest today.

[4:09] Alex Smolowe: AKA the Jackal.

[4:11] Nik Walker: AKA the Jackal. She's here. Welcome to Chaos.

[4:15] Sasha Hutchings: Welcome to Pure and Utter Chaos.

[4:17] Nik Walker: I'm on Westwing.fandom.com. And they are saying CJ is persuaded by her co-workers to perform the song, "The Jackal," but they don't give the context.

[4:30] Alex Smolowe: They just say that she did it.

[4:30] Nik Walker: This is what's like a normal West Wing thing that could happen. They win like a lawsuit?

[4:36] Sasha Hutchings: Did they put a bill gets passed?

[4:39] Nik Walker: I don't know. It would be a bill.

[4:40] Sasha Hutchings: It would be a bill like four episodes of the West Wing.

[4:43] Nik Walker: It was either a bill or it was that they put somebody on the bench.

[4:47] Sasha Hutchings: It wasn't. It was yes, I think it was it was a Mendoza.

[4:51] Nik Walker: It might have been Mendoza. Yeah, I think it was. I think it was Mendoza that he got.

[4:56] Sasha Hutchings: Because I feel like Toby's really happy, and like he's like weirding everyone out during that episode.

[5:01] Nik Walker: Yes, in fact, I'm reading this now. It's—yeah, well, you know who's not is Alex, and that's the prop.

[5:08] Alex Smolowe: It's yes. Uh yeah, it was like your two favorite shows in the wheel.

[5:15] Nik Walker: I have really no idea what you're ever talking about in regards to the West Wing. Like I've seen like bits and pieces of both of them. I get the general idea, but like you like almost every day you probably watch an episode of one of those two shows.

[5:25] Alex Smolowe: Oh, yeah. Alex, what's your—give your synopsis of The Wire and The West Wing?

[5:32] Nik Walker: Through my eyes.

[5:34] Alex Smolowe: That's a challenge.

[5:35] Nik Walker: Yeah, through Nick's eyes.

[5:36] Alex Smolowe: Well, so The Wire to me, I didn't realize, but Nick, you were explaining it last time, actually. Like every season examines a different facet of like life in Baltimore.

[5:47] Nik Walker: Working class, is that correct?

[5:49] Alex Smolowe: Is that correct?

[5:49] Nik Walker: That is quite like an up-close examination of the different aspects of life in like urban Baltimore.

[5:57] Alex Smolowe: Yes.

[5:57] Nik Walker: Okay. So it's not just a cop show then, right? Like it's like, uh, it's like a domestic—uh, I was gonna say excavation, like, uh, it's like an archaeology.

[6:09] Alex Smolowe: I mean, truly, it's like—it's like a journal. It's like you're reading the newspaper, but it's live.

[6:15] Nik Walker: It's live. But like The Wire itself refers to the wire they wear, right? Like the wire that they have set up, which is a cop show thing.

[6:25] Alex Smolowe: You can't just start screaming chaos and see your microphone.

[6:29] Sasha Hutchings: Oh, Sashi, yes, you had—you don't even know.

[6:32] Nik Walker: Chaos, chaos, chaos, chaos.

[6:33] Alex Smolowe: Oh god. Like what's happening?

[6:36] Nik Walker: The best part is, guys, that Sasha, we didn't prep Sasha in any way.

[6:40] Sasha Hutchings: Not at all.

[6:41] Nik Walker: We literally said, pick a movie and come on. And like that's just what's gonna happen. Let's just see what happens. We'll just ask any questions.

[6:49] Sasha Hutchings: You were like, if you have any questions, let us know. And I was like, but I have no context for questions.

[7:01] Nik Walker: You didn't get the spreadsheet?

[7:03] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah, you didn't—did we not send you the contract?

[7:06] Nik Walker: Shit. What's the con?

[7:09] Sasha Hutchings: Chaos?

[7:09] Nik Walker: Chaos. Chaos. Chaos. Chaos.

[7:13] Sasha Hutchings: It's perfect.

[7:14] Nik Walker: It's perfect. No, but it's, uh, The Wire—that is an accurate representation of The Wire, Alex. Now, now The West Wing. What do you think The West Wing is? What is it?

[7:22] Sasha Hutchings: Uh, Aaron Sorkin, you know, needs some alone time.

[7:28] Nik Walker: Like, Aaron Sorkin needs some alone time.

[7:32] Sasha Hutchings: It's just him hanging out.

[7:33] Nik Walker: It's just Aaron's—Aaron. It's like Aaron Sorkin's like imagining of what politics is actually like.

[7:38] Alex Smolowe: We talked about this a little bit when we did our politics episode.

[7:41] Sasha Hutchings: Yes, we did.

[7:42] Alex Smolowe: When I paid—when I watched Dave for it, because like in light of the last four years, it's completely like shined light on how not organized it actually all is.

[7:52] Sasha Hutchings: Yes.

[7:53] Alex Smolowe: Um, and how like, like usually you think that everybody behind the scenes is like hyper intelligent. Everybody is like a Harvard Law PhD, like, you know, executing these 5D chess moves or whatever. And then you realize like a lot of people back there, not actually.

[8:08] Sasha Hutchings: Not the brightest.

[8:10] Alex Smolowe: Not the brightest. So like shows like The West Wing, especially Aaron Sorkin who has this penchant for like emotionally driving everything up. Like you remember, uh, The Newsroom?

[8:19] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah.

[8:19] Alex Smolowe: Um, after they killed bin Laden, maybe was the plot point, and they got up on the plane and announced it with the music playing like, "Ladies and gentlemen, we got..." Like he just like grows these things way out of proportions like, uh, is it that exciting?

[8:36] Nik Walker: And we say just right in into perfect.

[8:40] Alex Smolowe: Getting the perfect balance, the perfect balance.

[8:43] Nik Walker: It's so funny because I think that he truly does, you know.

[8:47] Sasha Hutchings: Yes, he does emotionally charge moments.

[8:49] Nik Walker: I would say on The West Wing, however, I think—and Sasha, tell me, tell me what you think about this. I would say that the genius of the show is that it doesn't like it.

[9:07] Sasha Hutchings: Um, that is when you'll have a plot that's like actually ridiculous.

[9:15] Nik Walker: It's ridiculous.

[9:16] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah, it is kind of ridiculous. It gets—it got a little more ridiculous. I'll tell you where it went off the rails for me a little bit. And being on my maybe fourth pass through this series, I've really nailed it down to when the first daughter gets kidnapped.

[9:31] Nik Walker: I just—I'm really not a fan of a kidnapping. And I really think that it brings me to Scandal when Olivia Pope was kidnapped. And I don't—I just have yet to see a believable kidnapping.

[9:48] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah.

[9:49] Nik Walker: Yeah. Wait, so the first daughter played by Elizabeth Moss?

[9:53] Sasha Hutchings: Elizabeth Moss is Mamas.

[9:55] Nik Walker: Yeah, she's kidnapped from her graduation party. Now, Sasha, now, sorry up, but please, if you're gonna talk about the story, you need to talk about her French boyfriend.

[10:05] Sasha Hutchings: I was just kidding.

[10:07] Nik Walker: Because he's—was he in on it?

[10:09] Sasha Hutchings: Well, sort of.

[10:13] Nik Walker: He wasn't trying to get her kidnapped, you know.

[10:16] Sasha Hutchings: Guys are never trying to ruin your life.

[10:19] Nik Walker: Stop it. Stop it.

[10:20] Sasha Hutchings: Oh, so like he's the reason that she gets put into a position where she can get kidnapped.

[10:26] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[10:27] Sasha Hutchings: I don't know. I think that that blame should squarely fall on Secret Service at that point. Like a French boyfriend should never be in a position in the first place to open her up to the other.

[10:36] Nik Walker: Listen, you know, they have to. If they're too close, then she won't trust them, then she'll be trying to dodge. They have to give her a perimeter, you know.

[10:44] Sasha Hutchings: Their job is to secure the perimeter.

[10:46] Nik Walker: Secure the perimeter. And when your Secret Service is played by Tay Diggs, that's when you really know that it's not gonna really work out.

[10:58] Sasha Hutchings: That's precisely what this should feel like because I want to go to the mall, but Secret Service won't let me.

[11:03] Alex Smolowe: I'm gonna say that.

[11:04] Sasha Hutchings: Alex, you have a—

[11:06] Nik Walker: Go ahead.

[11:08] Sasha Hutchings: Okay, but like the first, like Tay Diggs is her Secret Service. Like he's the head of her Secret Service. He's all she has. But he's also like you get introduced to him, and the first thing that happens is another blonde woman like body slams him to prove that she is like capable of defending the first daughter.

[11:43] Nik Walker: And then he lets the first daughter get kidnapped.

[11:45] Alex Smolowe: Can you imagine if any time in American history the child of the president was kidnapped? Who kidnapped him?

[11:52] Nik Walker: Was it like an international intrigue?

[11:54] Alex Smolowe: It was extremists.

[11:55] Nik Walker: There were some extremists.

[12:07] Alex Smolowe: Like imagine if Antifa grabbed Don Jr.

[12:10] Nik Walker: Like, what would happen, you know?

[12:12] Alex Smolowe: I really think if only tell you.

[12:15] Nik Walker: I actually I'm gonna bet a dollar that that happened.

[12:20] Alex Smolowe: I think it happened.

[12:22] Nik Walker: I think Antifa grabbing Don Jr.

[12:22] Alex Smolowe: Don Jr.

[12:25] Nik Walker: and she loved together made a decision to grab Don Jr.

[12:29] Alex Smolowe: Yeah.

[12:30] Nik Walker: They got him back at HQ now.

[12:32] Alex Smolowe: I will willingly go.

[12:34] Nik Walker: But yeah, it was, you know, Tay Diggs.

[12:36] Alex Smolowe: And then and then the best part, Nik, is Tay Diggs, once we get to season five, never heard from again.

[12:41] Nik Walker: Never seen.

[12:42] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, fired.

[12:44] Nik Walker: He's definitely fired.

[12:45] Alex Smolowe: He's been let go.

[12:47] Nik Walker: He's been let go from the show.

[12:48] Alex Smolowe: He's been let go from law enforcement, period.

[12:51] Nik Walker: But Sasha, this is actually interesting because, you know, this was also the last episode that Aaron Sorkin ever wrote of The West Wing, right?

[12:59] Sasha Hutchings: So like, because I get the feeling that this was like the biggest middle finger to The West Wing.

[13:06] Nik Walker: I was gonna say the kidnapping was his last episode that he wrote.

[13:06] Sasha Hutchings: That he wrote.

[13:11] Nik Walker: Because he didn't do, he was gone for season five.

[13:13] Sasha Hutchings: Oh, so it was like you guys stole this show from me.

[13:15] Nik Walker: Kind of. Is he the dog?

[13:17] Sasha Hutchings: He's like, I'm gonna set you guys up for failure.

[13:20] Nik Walker: I think he literally said, write yourself out of this one, you fuck faces.

[13:24] Sasha Hutchings: Do you know what I mean?

[13:25] Nik Walker: That's a—I literally think he was like, I'm gonna give you like an impossible situation, and now good luck maintaining the show.

[13:33] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah, I kind of love that.

[13:35] Nik Walker: And that's what happened because season five is trash.

[13:38] Alex Smolowe: It really is because Sorkin jumped the shark for them.

[13:44] Nik Walker: He took the boat, jumped the shark, and then swam away.

[13:47] Sasha Hutchings: And swam away.

[13:48] Nik Walker: And it all comes back to Rob Lowe.

[13:51] Sasha Hutchings: That is the little-known secret.

[13:53] Nik Walker: I'm not even joking.

[13:55] Sasha Hutchings: It legitimately, you know, let's make this a full West Wing podcast right now.

[13:59] Nik Walker: Some West Wing tea for you guys.

[14:01] Sasha Hutchings: West Wing gossip.

[14:02] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[14:02] Sasha Hutchings: Gossip.

[14:03] Nik Walker: Gossips.

[14:04] Sasha Hutchings: So here's what I heard from the sources.

[14:09] Nik Walker: Someone had told me.

[14:10] Sasha Hutchings: Well, and I'll tell you who told me.

[14:12] Nik Walker: I was in Milwaukee doing the show That Shall Not Be Named about the rapping Founding Fathers.

[14:18] Sasha Hutchings: And there was me and my buddy Fergie saw that at the Jewish community center in town, Rob Reiner and Aaron Sorkin would be speaking.

[14:28] Nik Walker: And so we went, and this was what was alluded to.

[14:28] Sasha Hutchings: What was alluded to was that there was an actor on contract, Rob Lowe, who had an understanding from the beginning that—and if I'm wrong, please someone correct me.

[14:44] Nik Walker: I'm just telling you what I heard, but that Rob Lowe was not the easiest to work with on set, that there was a lot of tension surrounding Rob Lowe, that it came down to that.

[14:54] Sasha Hutchings: Aaron Sorkin had gotten to a position where he was like, Look, I don't want to work with this guy anymore, so you're either gonna make a choice between Rob Lowe or me.

[15:02] Nik Walker: And he apparently comes into work the next day, and like they call him in for a meeting, and they just were like, Aaron, we are so thankful for the four years you've given us.

[15:10] Sasha Hutchings: Like it really has been magical.

[15:11] Nik Walker: Like he truly thought that they were gonna—it's Aaron Sorkin.

[15:14] Sasha Hutchings: Why would you not choose Sorkin?

[15:16] Nik Walker: But they chose Rob Lowe.

[15:17] Sasha Hutchings: And what's amazing about that is Rob Lowe did not stay.

[15:22] Nik Walker: Oh, really?

[15:24] Sasha Hutchings: So you lose Sorkin's—

[15:26] Nik Walker: At the same time, or did they get an extra season out of him?

[15:29] Sasha Hutchings: So you lose Sorkin and Rob Lowe in one fell swoop.

[15:32] Nik Walker: That's really funny.

[15:33] Sasha Hutchings: I mean, at that point, though, Sorkin, you know, he was probably important, but not like a public figure.

[15:38] Nik Walker: Like if you're trying to sell a fifth season of a show and you lose your big star, that's gonna be a problem.

[15:44] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah, but you feel it.

[15:45] Nik Walker: You feel it.

[15:46] Sasha Hutchings: You feel it after that.

[15:47] Nik Walker: Oh, you feel it for sure.

[15:48] Sasha Hutchings: You always feel it.

[15:49] Nik Walker: And in retrospect, you know, you look back and yeah.

[15:52] Sasha Hutchings: Well, but they're just trying to get renewed for another season, you know, and without Rob Lowe, they probably wouldn't have done that.

[15:57] Nik Walker: Even then you knew because Sorkin's scripts were just—I mean, true when you get a chance to watch this, Alex, it's like what The Newsroom should have been for its whole run.

[16:07] Sasha Hutchings: Like it really is just a special show.

[16:09] Nik Walker: And I like The Newsroom a lot.

[16:11] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah.

[16:11] Nik Walker: The difference in once Sorkin leaves, like it takes them a truly a whole season to find their feet.

[16:17] Sasha Hutchings: Now once they find their footing, once we get into the Matt Santos of it all, Nik, now we're back in play.

[16:23] Nik Walker: Now we're going to have to—

[16:24] Sasha Hutchings: Santos is great.

[16:25] Nik Walker: Yeah, Matt Santos.

[16:26] Sasha Hutchings: You really—once they're in the end, the final stretch is a strong one.

[16:31] Nik Walker: Yeah, it's a strong one.

[16:32] Sasha Hutchings: It's a really—I don't know that I wanted, like after, you know, as the show ended, I didn't necessarily want to West Wing it with President Santos.

[16:41] Nik Walker: I was—it really—I didn't.

[16:43] Sasha Hutchings: Interesting.

[16:47] Nik Walker: Matt Santos, Alex, played by the great Jimmy Smits.

[16:51] Sasha Hutchings: Just to give you some—

[16:54] Nik Walker: My mom, everyone's mom loves Jimmy Smits.

[16:56] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah.

[16:57] Nik Walker: He was like, what, one year—like he's like her thing that she loves.

[17:02] Sasha Hutchings: So one year we got a picture of Jimmy Smits and we framed it and we stuck it on top of the Christmas tree where the star should go.

[17:09] Nik Walker: Oh my god, that's really cute.

[17:10] Sasha Hutchings: O Christmas star, Jimmy Smits.

[17:12] Nik Walker: I'm going to do that every year.

[17:14] Sasha Hutchings: But Nik, I'm sorry I cut you off.

[17:16] Nik Walker: No, no, no.

[17:17] Sasha Hutchings: I just—you were saying as it ended that you were willing to explore a Santos presidency.

[17:23] Nik Walker: I would have loved to see what that—like because they set it up really well.

[17:29] Sasha Hutchings: I'm—we're not ruining anything for Alex, but his cabinet is great.

[17:32] Nik Walker: It's just a great—he got a great crew, he got a great staff there.

[17:36] Sasha Hutchings: I would love to see what happens with that staff going forward.

[17:40] Nik Walker: You know, I think they got enough to bump heads and be their asshole selves and whatever.

[17:46] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah.

[17:46] Nik Walker: But yeah, interesting, you know, interesting the Santos presidency.

[17:51] Sasha Hutchings: I mean, who knows how—who do you—let me ask you this, Sasha?

[17:54] Nik Walker: Because Santos—so Alex, Santos is very much the Obama of the West Wing world.

[17:59] Sasha Hutchings: Who comes after Matt Santos?

[18:03] Nik Walker: Is it Hoines?

[18:04] Sasha Hutchings: Is Hoines the Trump of the West Wing world?

[18:07] Nik Walker: Do we get eight years of Santos?

[18:09] Sasha Hutchings: No, I think it's that guy, the president who had the dog, the one who took over the—you know what I'm talking about?

[18:19] Nik Walker: Because his daughter was kidnapped.

[18:20] Sasha Hutchings: Oh yep, his daughter.

[18:21] Nik Walker: So he had too much.

[18:23] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah, John Goodman.

[18:24] Nik Walker: John Goodman played, I forget the name of the senator or the—no, he played the—it was like the secretary.

[18:30] Sasha Hutchings: Speaker of the house.

[18:31] Nik Walker: Speaker of the house, yeah.

[18:32] Sasha Hutchings: Because he was third in line, because Hoines had screwed up.

[18:35] Nik Walker: We're just going this—this just a rabbit hole.

[18:37] Sasha Hutchings: Ladies and gentlemen, this has been the West Wing podcast.

[18:40] Nik Walker: The West Wing Weekly.

[18:41] Sasha Hutchings: And it's not even West Wing Weekly.

[18:43] Nik Walker: It's just Nik and Sasha remember The West Wing.

[18:46] Sasha Hutchings: It's just not a good thing.

[18:48] Nik Walker: Which really is like this show anyway.

[18:51] Sasha Hutchings: Like basically any time Nik gets a microphone, it's a good thing.

[18:56] Nik Walker: What let me ask you, Alex, what else is there to fucking talk about?

[19:00] Alex Smolowe: Do you know what I mean?

[19:01] Nik Walker: Like what else is there?

[19:02] Alex Smolowe: Like, let's just find you a new show.

[19:05] Nik Walker: You only have to watch it one time.

[19:06] Alex Smolowe: I know you like to watch—you need to watch series seven to ten times to fully appreciate that.

[19:12] Nik Walker: I've tried it.

[19:13] Alex Smolowe: You tried shows.

[19:14] Nik Walker: No, Sasha, you tried Bridgerton.

[19:15] Sasha Hutchings: My wife loves Bridgerton.

[19:17] Nik Walker: Oh, I went.

[19:17] Sasha Hutchings: I was in it.

[19:19] Nik Walker: I didn't just try it.

[19:20] Sasha Hutchings: I finished the meal.

[19:21] Nik Walker: You ate the—you licked the plate.

[19:24] Sasha Hutchings: I finished the plate.

[19:25] Nik Walker: I won't say that I licked it.

[19:27] Sasha Hutchings: I left a crumb or two.

[19:29] Nik Walker: Okay.

[19:30] Sasha Hutchings: That's fair.

[19:31] Nik Walker: Listen, it was like, it was really pretty.

[19:35] Sasha Hutchings: The actor who plays the guy, I can't even remember the names.

[19:41] Nik Walker: Honestly, it was very pretty.

[19:42] Sasha Hutchings: And the Duke.

[19:43] Nik Walker: Yes, the Duke is hot.

[19:46] Sasha Hutchings: Like, just it's really ridiculous.

[19:48] Nik Walker: And he's hot in a way that like I was like, wow, he's really attractive.

[19:51] Sasha Hutchings: And then I like had a little rebellious moment where I was like, I'm not gonna do this.

[19:55] Nik Walker: Like, I'm not just gonna sit here and swoon over this guy.

[19:58] Sasha Hutchings: And then, like, by episode three, I was like, Yes, you are.

[19:58] Nik Walker: Like, just do it.

[20:03] Sasha Hutchings: Just have fun with it.

[20:05] Nik Walker: This is what he's here for.

[20:07] Sasha Hutchings: But it was really fun.

[20:12] Nik Walker: I will say towards the end, and specifically the final episode, like the series finale, or not series, season finale.

[20:23] Sasha Hutchings: I just felt like it was every example of the most toxic, like codependency you can have with a significant other as a woman.

[20:33] Nik Walker: Yeah, get more into this because I've actually heard that that's a popular opinion on this that like it really was just not a healthy thing.

[20:42] Sasha Hutchings: He has had—the Duke has had a troubled childhood.

[20:45] Nik Walker: Very interesting in that this is Queen Charlotte's England, so—and Queen Charlotte is black, and it's as though she has sort of given titles to some prominent black families, and so you have the Duke, you have Lady Danbury.

[21:03] Sasha Hutchings: There's another black lady in the movie and—or the series.

[21:08] Nik Walker: So you have these like affluent black people, but the Duke has had a troubled childhood.

[21:13] Sasha Hutchings: His mother died giving birth to him.

[21:15] Nik Walker: His father was estranged and he had a stutter, and his father was ashamed of him.

[21:20] Sasha Hutchings: He's like sworn that he would never have children despite his father.

[21:25] Nik Walker: And so he marries.

[21:28] Sasha Hutchings: He says he's never going to marry because he can never have children, but there's a whole lot of drama.

[21:32] Nik Walker: I won't go through all of it.

[21:34] Sasha Hutchings: He ends up married to this white woman, obviously.

[21:37] Nik Walker: As you do.

[21:39] Sasha Hutchings: And she is very naive, and it's very interesting.

[21:45] Nik Walker: The way they show these young ladies who really have like no idea how sex works, how procreation works, and her mother just sort of throws her to the wolves and is just like, have fun in marriage, okay, and does not explain how sex works, does not explain how pregnancy works.

[22:03] Sasha Hutchings: So she's in this marriage, just trying to very much embrace, you know, what her role in society is.

[22:09] Nik Walker: She's sort of an example of a woman who—it's not that she's really fighting against, you know, being put out on a meat market as a potential wife.

[22:20] Sasha Hutchings: I mean, like, she's being, you know, it's the season, like it's the season to be married.

[22:24] Nik Walker: She's some well-seasoned meat, ready to be bought.

[22:28] Sasha Hutchings: It's meat season where you meet someone and marry them.

[22:31] Nik Walker: No.

[22:32] Sasha Hutchings: And the show probably wouldn't have done as well with that title, though.

[22:37] Nik Walker: That's—that's the next one.

[22:38] Sasha Hutchings: Meat season.

[22:39] Nik Walker: Have you seen Meat Season?

[22:43] Sasha Hutchings: That's what it should be called.

[22:45] Nik Walker: The drama's so dynamic.

[22:48] Sasha Hutchings: Ready to go meeting, like just really crazy.

[22:53] Nik Walker: Oh my gosh.

[22:54] Sasha Hutchings: The first episode is just called Medium Rare.

[22:59] Nik Walker: Well, and the last episode is well done.

[23:02] Sasha Hutchings: Well done, yeah, exactly.

[23:03] Nik Walker: This is trash.

[23:06] Sasha Hutchings: Continue talking, Nik.

[23:07] Nik Walker: I'm so sorry.

[23:08] Sasha Hutchings: So she's just embraced all of this. And so she takes it upon herself to make this marriage work. But because this man has had this troubled childhood and this terrible, you know, idea of his relationship with his father and his idea of who he could be, he is like classically, like has no idea how to navigate through it emotionally, no idea how to like, you know, nothing he's doing is making sense. They're not having the arguments or even the conversations or fights that they should be having, just trying to work this out. No one knows how to talk to each other. And then it just sort of like falls into this like false romanticism that we're very used to seeing from that period of like what it was like for people to meet and get married.

But you know, as a woman, I'm like, oh my god, like this is so terrible. She's just it's she's trying to solve the problem of this marriage. They end up almost estranged on like the brink of estrangement, because she realizes that he's lying to her about how he can't have children or the difference between can't and won't have children. Um yeah, and he's sort of like lied to her, but he, you know, is like, well, I didn't know you didn't know, like I wasn't responsible for teaching you the birds and the bees. And so they're gonna live separately, and she has this conversation with her mother finally, where she's you know, told her, You haven't prepared me for anything, and I think we're gonna separate at the end of the season, the meeting season, the meat season, the meat season, and her mother gives her this pep talk that's basically like, Your father and I loved each other very much, but we didn't, it wasn't perfect.

We had hard times, but we made it work because we chose each other, and the daughter says to her, I am trying, which you have seen her trying, you've seen her put forth the effort, you've seen her put up with this like very broody man, and she's putting forth the effort, and she the mother says, You're a Bridgerton, you can do anything. And Yo is just like, for me, that was my moment of just no one. But is this can I can I ask you, is this is this is this speech given in a context where we are supposed to root forward what the mother is saying, or we we understand that the mother is pushing her into a very bad relationship?

[25:28] Nik Walker: No, you're supposed to root for her mother and what she's saying because what then happens is basically she goes to the husband, everyone leaves the party, there's like some dancing in the rain, you know, and then she says to him, I um, you know, I love you. I know you don't think you're worthy of love, I know you don't think you can do this, but I do, and I blah, and I love you, and I love us, and I want to do this, and then she leaves. Like she gives the speech that's just like, I know you're an emotionally unavailable, terrible, like terribly depressed human who doesn't know how to find his way out of this, but I I can love you out of it, and I'll do it. And you're just like, no, sis, you can't, it's impossible. They leave it on, like well, no, they no, it works out. He comes around and they live happily ever after, or at least, you know, happily to the end of the season. It's a lie. So it's the so the show is a lie.

[26:25] Sasha Hutchings: So it's supposed to be a lot of the things that we're talking about.

[26:26] Nik Walker: Yeah, but it's a pretty one, yeah.

[26:27] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah, but it's a pretty one with a really hot guy.

[26:29] Nik Walker: That's what I thought it was. Like, what's the age range here? Because I was looking at it like, okay, this is just like for like late teen kind of thing.

[26:37] Sasha Hutchings: Like, it's definitely a late teen. Like, it's definitely a sexy period piece, but I um am a woman in her 30s, and my mother is a woman in her 60s. And let me tell you, the whole house was watching it.

[26:49] Nik Walker: Oh my god, let me tell you a little. I want to tell you, you know, now I've never watched I've not watched the meat season, but I want to tell you a little story about I've not I've not watched the I've not been to the butcher shop recently, but I wanted to. They've got I hear they got some good meats. Uh I I was talking to me, my me and Sarah were FaceTiming my mother, and uh she had just watched uh Bridgerton and was so excited about the the episode where I guess he teaches her to to masturbate. Uh loved that and uh now I've never heard my mother use the word masturbate.

[27:24] Sasha Hutchings: How was that for you?

[27:26] Nik Walker: It was well for both me and Sarah. I think we just kind of looked at each other like this is not what we want. We don't want this.

[27:35] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah, we there's a lot of sex, there's a lot of sex in them in in the in the series.

[27:41] Nik Walker: And I would say, um, my sister decided pretty on that we were no longer going to watch it with my mother.

[27:48] Sasha Hutchings: Great.

[27:48] Nik Walker: I think it was about this probably two and a half episodes in. She was like, we can't do this.

[27:53] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah.

[27:53] Nik Walker: My my wife and I have have this nice comfort zone with stuff like that where like we like like we'll go as far as as down an abbey, right? That's like our that's the threshold.

[28:02] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah.

[28:04] Nik Walker: Like they get into it, but they don't really get into it. And like it's not really there. It's more about watching period, like watching these people in this like kind of pristine time. And we just finished uh Anne with an E, which had the same kind of thing where it's like they get right up to talking about these important things and showing you things like breaking through what you think that period was like and showing you real human stuff, but not actually like yeah, it's not like gratuitous sex scenes, it's not like going overboard stuff.

[28:29] Sasha Hutchings: It's like at one point the script did go there.

[28:32] Nik Walker: At one point, they had a very real conversation, and then in some stage of editing or rewrites, they were like, we can't just can you make this palatable?

[28:45] Sasha Hutchings: It's not worth it.

[28:46] Nik Walker: Can you make this network palatable and move on? So, you know, and it's a Shonda Rhimes show.

[28:52] Sasha Hutchings: There's there's there's some salt in there.

[28:55] Nik Walker: There's you know, there's some salted meat in there, but at the very salted meat, you know, but that's how they used to package it on the ships.

[29:07] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah, yeah.

[29:08] Nik Walker: This metaphor's gone off the rails.

[29:12] Sasha Hutchings: We are exactly trying to keep it aligned in my head of getting some really disturbing images in my head of I tell you when we use the meat as the people and they're salted, then what are we talking about?

[29:23] Nik Walker: Yeah, exactly what we're supposed to be talking about.

[29:26] Sasha Hutchings: And that's chaos, chaos.

[29:29] Nik Walker: Chaos movies is what we're supposed to be talking about.

[29:31] Sasha Hutchings: No, we are.

[29:32] Nik Walker: This is listen, when when when we knew when when we were like, oh, we should get Sasha on here. I knew from the very beginning that this would be a two-parter.

[29:40] Sasha Hutchings: I knew that this that we would not get to the topic for quite some time.

[29:46] Nik Walker: So I'm happy to just like you say we're off the rails. Let's let it ride. Do you know what I mean?

[29:51] Sasha Hutchings: Let it ride.

[29:52] Nik Walker: Let it ride.

[29:52] Sasha Hutchings: Let's see.

[29:52] Nik Walker: Next week meet meet town.

[29:54] Sasha Hutchings: Meet town.

[29:55] Nik Walker: I'm just gonna say lives there.

[30:00] Sasha Hutchings: Gaffiari loves it in Meet Town.

[30:02] Nik Walker: He's all Google Meets.

[30:04] Sasha Hutchings: Oh gosh.

[30:10] Nik Walker: So one thing. So it's it's so interesting to hear you talk about this, Sash. Like uh so like Alex, what is your Bridgeton? Like this, you know, like what's the one.

[30:18] Alex Smolowe: Well, that's what I'm saying is right now it's Anne with an E, man. We just finished that. That's that's it for it's it's three seasons of Anne of Green and from Green Gables. But like it's it I was I was hesitant going in. I was like, uh, it's like okay, it's made for a slightly younger audience, it's like whatever. But they really the production value on the show is unbelievable. The way it's shot, the performances, everything.

[30:39] Sasha Hutchings: There's one of the one of the main guys, like the the kind of boyfriend character through it is is terrible.

[30:44] Alex Smolowe: But everybody else is not only are the performances good, but the characters like there's a lot of dynamic. They deal with a lot of stuff like childhood trauma and abuse and a green gables and wow green gables.

[30:55] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah, it's like wow because she's she's like an abused orphan, right, who doesn't know where she comes from. She's like the most positive person in the world. She's always talking about her imagination and all this stuff.

[31:04] Alex Smolowe: Oh shit.

[31:05] Sasha Hutchings: Um, but she's got PTSD straight up and and comes into this family who doesn't really want her. They like and I think that's the real book, too. They like they send for an orphan boy to help on their farm, Green Gables, and they get her instead.

[31:19] Alex Smolowe: Um and so the first few episodes are them just weighing whether they want her or not.

[31:22] Sasha Hutchings: So she's come, she's like this bright presence, right?

[31:25] Alex Smolowe: She sees the magic and everything, but she's also severely traumatized.

[31:29] Sasha Hutchings: Um it balances this, and over the course of three seasons, it it engages uh with homosexuality, it engages with politics, it engages with uh like a woman's place in in the hierarchy and with the native people and with uh it it it it covers basically everything but it never it never feels like they're trying too hard like they keep it really uh like ground the drama feels natural um it's it's surprisingly good and then they canceled it because uh the the Canadian uh company production company that was making it didn't like the deal Netflix was making with them they said Netflix basically like took too much money or didn't give enough money for what the production was so they canceled it.

[32:07] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah but and with an E so good and with an End with an E.

[32:10] Nik Walker: All right.

[32:11] Sasha Hutchings: I it sounds like a thing I'd get into honestly.

[32:13] Alex Smolowe: And it's easy like everybody can watch it like there it's there's not sex scenes there's not too much violence like it gets just dark enough but never really like it's it's pretty accessible so it's random that's what I really like.

[32:24] Sasha Hutchings: My sister asked me we were talking about shows and I really don't like dark shows and I don't get into like horror movies.

[32:31] Alex Smolowe: I really don't get into thrillers um and my sister was like wait the West Wing is upbeat and I was like are you kidding me?

[32:39] Nik Walker: Are you yes it is yeah I'm finding I don't want dark these days like after the last few years like we we tried to watch Snowpiercer.

[32:48] Sasha Hutchings: They made a TV show based on the movie Snowpiercer about like class warfare on a post apocalyptic train where it's like there's so much just like murder and metaphor for for like you know the global economic disparity whatever.

[33:01] Nik Walker: And after the end of the first episode like this this just we don't feel good right now.

[33:06] Sasha Hutchings: Right we want to settle in with a glass of wine and and binge three or four episodes of something that makes you like feel good for watching it.

[33:12] Nik Walker: Now see you two say this uh meanwhile I'm on my fourth watch of Mindhunter, so I am I am I need to get to I like well those that's that one Ed Kemper oh my god yeah on that show.

[33:27] Sasha Hutchings: I remember I haven't watched the series all the way through, but I remember watching the first two or three episodes and thinking that guy's great.

[33:33] Nik Walker: But see, this is this is this is my quote. I mean, I think and look, people go back and forth. We all need what we need in these moments, and that's real because uh, as I've said several times, we are living an act of trauma.

[33:44] Sasha Hutchings: What can we do to protect ourselves?

[33:46] Nik Walker: You know, secure perimeter, all this shit. So you can you can you know whatever you need to watch to do that, watch it.

[33:52] Sasha Hutchings: I maybe I'm crazy.

[33:55] Nik Walker: I find that shit cathartic.

[33:57] Sasha Hutchings: I am crazy, but I find that shit cathartic.

[33:59] Nik Walker: Like I find I that's why honestly, Alex. When we started this pandemic, I you what we did so Sasha, we did an episode on uh horror movies.

[34:06] Sasha Hutchings: I chose Hereditary.

[34:08] Nik Walker: It was the worst movie to watch at 2 a.m. now Sasha, you I have you seen Hereditary?

[34:12] Sasha Hutchings: Have you seen it?

[34:13] Nik Walker: No, never it is it it's I mean it's truly spoiler alert. Everyone, if you don't want to hear spoilers, uh don't listen to this.

[34:20] Sasha Hutchings: The the la the one of the last shots of this just put in context is Tony Colette, brilliant actress, sawing off her own head with piano wire.

[34:28] Nik Walker: That is that is where we're at in hereditary.

[34:30] Sasha Hutchings: Oh my god.

[34:31] Nik Walker: It's it's brutal, but it's I mean it's a brilliant in front of her son, in front of her son, in front of her son while her while her son is getting possessed by the devil.

[34:38] Sasha Hutchings: Um it's a whole thing.

[34:40] Nik Walker: But it's poetic.

[34:41] Sasha Hutchings: It is very poetic.

[34:42] Nik Walker: It's it's actually about trauma.

[34:44] Sasha Hutchings: Um, that shit is so like I I I hated horror movies starting this pandemic. Now I fucking love them. I cannot get enough of them. I and I I don't know what that is. Like it maybe maybe I've truly snapped, guys. But like I love a good horror movie right now. I'm watching The Ripper. I hate like true crime. I hate that shit. But I'm watching The Ripper right now, y'all. The Ripper. Interesting. I wonder what that is. Like, I I would I would like to see the numbers for the last year about genre and what people are really sticking to.

[35:16] Nik Walker: It's so true. It's so true. You know what we need. Because usually, like what comes out is a product of where we're at, right? Like horror movies especially tend to reflect that, right? Our cultural fears and all of that. So I'm curious about what people are watching, have been watching, and I'm curious about what comes out in the next year, two years, three years to like get at people, right? And get under people's skin.

[35:38] Sasha Hutchings: Definitely.

[35:41] Nik Walker: Sasha, if they do a Bridgerton spin-off in America, you can be on that show.

[35:46] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah. For sure. That's that's like what you need to know about me is that I'm pretty sure I was supposed to be born into royalty.

[35:55] Nik Walker: Oh my god. So let's talk about let's break that down.

[36:01] Sasha Hutchings: Really feel like I was meant to be born into some sort of wealth and position and royalty in society.

[36:08] Nik Walker: Um, what are you doing with this position in wealth? Like, what is what is your

[36:10] Sasha Hutchings: Oh nothing. I'm worthless. I just eat and drink and socialize. Honestly. Like, I don't have any grand, like, there's no dreams of like, you know, what mark I make on society. I am one of the basic bitches on the meat market.

[36:29] Nik Walker: You're just a dream.

[36:30] Sasha Hutchings: That is I mean, that is one dream.

[36:33] Nik Walker: Yeah. Do would let me ask you this. Um, if you like uh if you're a Bridgerton character, yeah. Who are who are are you the Duke? Are you like who are you, Sasha? Do you know?

[36:43] Sasha Hutchings: Oh, I would love the Duke.

[36:45] Nik Walker: That's interesting now. See? Who am I? You know, you know, I'm I'm Lady, I think I believe her name's Lady Danbury.

[36:53] Sasha Hutchings: Lady, I have to I need to look it up. She's like the black woman who has raised, um, basically raised the Duke in the absence of his mother and and the also the chosen absence of his father. Uh so she sort of coached him through his stuttering, she helped him through his schooling. She's the person who's just had his back, looked out for him. Um, her son, like her son, and and she is like a mother figure to him.

[37:19] Nik Walker: What I love about her character is she is very well-to-do, obviously. She's high up in society, and she hosts this um women's sort of club. And uh she does invite the Duke's, uh, she invites Daphne, the the wife, the woman, the Daphne Bridgerton, the pearl of the season. She invites her to this party.

[37:40] Sasha Hutchings: And Daphne thinks she's going to a tea party, and she walks in, and these women are drinking and playing like and gambling and talking, and you know, sort of doing she sort of hosts their side of society, which I I do think would be probably something I would do. I would have the sort of women's um club, if you will, that was thought to be tea time, but was really just us getting drunk and manipulating the men of the society.

[38:07] Nik Walker: Now let's let's even let's even extrapolate from this because Sasha, so so Alex, one of the first things uh uh that I want I want listeners to understand about Sasha is this is a this is actually a theme that I've noticed with Sasha.

[38:20] Sasha Hutchings: Um is is the the covert, the the uh thing had to describe so a little but in context. One of the first things that uh that me and Sasha ever talked about as our friendship budded was a show called Chaos.

[38:35] Nik Walker: We talked about having a show called Chaos. And Sasha, what what would happen in the plot of that show? What would it be?

[38:39] Sasha Hutchings: So chaos is billed and uh and advertised as my 54 Below debut solo show in New York City.

[38:51] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[38:52] Sasha Hutchings: Every chorus girl does one, and I it would be mine.

[38:57] Nik Walker: Shut up. You are not on broad. You are not a Broadway dame until you have held your own 54 Below Joe's pub, you know, show.

[39:10] Sasha Hutchings: Loose lips sink ships.

[39:15] Nik Walker: That's one of the warmups you do before your show.

[39:18] Sasha Hutchings: That's right. Every chorus girl does them. Um, so I it would be billed as that. We do, you know, a nice little photo shoot for the gram. We do a little promos, maybe some flyers to pass around your theater.

[39:32] Sasha Hutchings: And um a couple of maybe now, you know, I'd do like an Insta Live convo about it, you know, just really hype it up. And people would come to the show, we'd be totally sold out. People would come to the show, and um, you know, as the show begins, the lights would go off, and then you would just hear the door slam and lock.

[39:58] Nik Walker: Slam shut.

[40:00] Sasha Hutchings: And what happens shut and lockens?

[40:02] Nik Walker: What happens after that?

[40:04] Sasha Hutchings: Chaos.

[40:05] Nik Walker: Chaos.

[40:08] Sasha Hutchings: I'm gonna tell you it's totally yes. It is a firehouse.

[40:12] Nik Walker: Let me tell you what doesn't happen.

[40:15] Sasha Hutchings: A concert.

[40:16] Nik Walker: That's precisely not what's gonna happen.

[40:20] Sasha Hutchings: What's not gonna happen is uh as a solo concert.

[40:23] Nik Walker: It felt it I remember you saying there was darkness, there's a lot, like no lights.

[40:23] Sasha Hutchings: No lights.

[40:30] Nik Walker: Well, it cuts off lights cut off, yeah, water guns, you get soaked, super soakers. You don't know where they're coming from. You don't know, some are filled with water, some are filled with like Nickelodeon slime, there may be some silly string, and then as the lights come up, confetti glitter pops off, and I'm just on stage saying welcome, as if nothing has happened.

[40:54] Sasha Hutchings: Welcome every feather the audio you tar and feather the audience with glitter.

[40:57] Nik Walker: Listen, I would never tar and feather glitter tarring and feathering is an act of racial aggression, and I would never participate in that. But I will put a sticky substance on a person and then cover them with glitter.

[41:11] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah, it's totally different.

[41:13] Nik Walker: So here you are in the theater. They thought they were coming, it's it's sold out, first of all.

[41:17] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah.

[41:17] Nik Walker: It's sold out. So first performance sold out. Uh after it's all over, uh, you you need to keep up the mystique. How do you keep them from getting on their phones and telling everybody like you're about to get glitter bombed?

[41:30] Sasha Hutchings: Right.

[41:31] Nik Walker: It's a one night only. It's one night only event.

[41:34] Sasha Hutchings: It's one night only.

[41:35] Nik Walker: It's one night only, and or the next night is actually a concert.

[41:40] Sasha Hutchings: Or could better yet, better yet, you just don't know what you're gonna get on a given night.

[41:46] Nik Walker: I I even got you one better. Show up in your raincoat and it's a concert.

[41:50] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah, everyone comes the next day ready to get slimed, and I'm like, Yeah, just don't telling me not to live.

[42:02] Nik Walker: Sasha, what this is my question. This is actually my question. What is your set list? What are you singing?

[42:10] Sasha Hutchings: I'm singing Angel of Mine.

[42:12] Nik Walker: Okay. If I hear one dun done in a nut nut, I'm going dun dun dun.

[42:19] Sasha Hutchings: I'm just gonna that's just gonna play throughout.

[42:21] Nik Walker: I love it.

[42:22] Sasha Hutchings: It's gonna be the intro to every song.

[42:22] Nik Walker: Every song.

[42:26] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah.

[42:27] Nik Walker: That's great.

[42:28] Sasha Hutchings: That's great. I love that. I love that.

[42:30] Nik Walker: I'm singing the chicken dance.

[42:38] Sasha Hutchings: Right.

[42:39] Nik Walker: Did we all clap?

[42:40] Sasha Hutchings: I clapped.

[42:40] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[42:41] Sasha Hutchings: I snapped.

[42:42] Nik Walker: Chaos.

[42:43] Sasha Hutchings: Chaos.

[42:44] Nik Walker: Chaos.

[42:44] Sasha Hutchings: Well, that's that's really wonderful, Sasha. I'm really glad that you have that in your back pocket. I'm really glad that you can do it on that. Um, because you know, look, times are tough. Do you know what I mean? Like, and we're gonna really need to innovate in the in the in the new the new era of Broadway.

[42:57] Nik Walker: So I think that's what I'm saying. People aren't gonna pay $200 for a lie anymore.

[42:59] Sasha Hutchings: For a lie.

[43:03] Alex Smolowe: Alex, we were being like like four or five, and my dad took me to see Blue Man Group, and the experience I had sounds very similar.

[43:11] Sasha Hutchings: Wait, no, even a little child.

[43:12] Alex Smolowe: Oh, you know, I think what they drop like toilet paper from the ceiling, or it's not this, but like to a little kid, this is what it feels like.

[43:19] Sasha Hutchings: Nik, I actually I didn't want to ruin this for you, but there was a ride, this will bring it back to something Alex knows about. There was a ride called uh Alien Extra Terrestrial Encounter at Disneyland or Disney World.

[43:32] Nik Walker: And the and I'm gonna I'm gonna describe what this ride is to you so that you can understand that you've actually stolen their ride. You uh you go you you go into a uh uh an auditorium, and the idea is you know, uh it's like you're on an alien planet, and they're gonna introduce you to like a new like the a new technology they have, teleportation technology, and you sit in these chairs and they're gonna and the the president of the company is gonna teleport in uh from space and and come talk to you, and it's the first time anybody's ever teleported a live animal ever.

[44:01] Sasha Hutchings: Uh what ends up happening is that in the teleportation, they actually don't hone in on the president's signal, they hone in on that of like a giant wigged devil creature.

[44:14] Nik Walker: And so when the smoke clears in this in the teleportation cylinder is this creature, he's staring at you, all of a sudden there's a huge crash, glass shatters everywhere, lights go out, and your next I'd say 10 minutes are just like you are literally strapped to these seats. Nothing happened like you don't move anywhere, but like like uh the these things happen.

[44:36] Sasha Hutchings: You you feel the creature breathing on your neck.

[44:38] Nik Walker: You feel like Oh, you know what? I've totally been in this ride, totally done this.

[44:42] Sasha Hutchings: Yeah, it's it's it's maybe that's where my pl where that's where the idea came from.

[44:46] Nik Walker: It came from this, yeah.

[44:48] Sasha Hutchings: Embedded itself.

[44:49] Nik Walker: It came from going to yeah, it came from going to theme park rides where they turn off the lights and give you a bunch of sensations in the seeds.

[44:55] Sasha Hutchings: That's what you want.

[44:56] Nik Walker: They also do that at a bug's life at Animal Kingdom.

[44:59] Sasha Hutchings: They absolutely do that at a bug's life in Animal Kingdom.

[45:03] Nik Walker: They also do that, it's now now the ride is called Lilo and Stitch's Great Escape. No longer, it's now gone.

[45:09] Sasha Hutchings: But uh he burps, he burps hot dog in your face.

[45:12] Nik Walker: It's not fun, it's not a good ride.

[45:13] Sasha Hutchings: It's not a good ride.

[45:14] Nik Walker: Does it smell like hot dog?

[45:15] Sasha Hutchings: It smells like hot dog.

[45:17] Nik Walker: It's really not a good ride.

[45:18] Sasha Hutchings: Uh and I'm glad it's glad.

[45:19] Nik Walker: No, it's not cool.

[45:20] Sasha Hutchings: It's not cool.

[45:21] Nik Walker: It's uh is it's the worst ride on property, and I'm glad it's gone. You hear me? I'm glad.

[45:25] Sasha Hutchings: Uh but but Nik, that's I I can't wait. I think people are really gonna be excited for your uh for your show.

[45:34] Nik Walker: I think this is uh a really great, great thing.

[45:37] Sasha Hutchings: Um it's gonna be great.

[45:38] Nik Walker: Now that I've got that hot dog smell, that takes it to a next level.

[45:41] Sasha Hutchings: I gotta get some smells in the show.

[45:43] Nik Walker: You have to.

[45:44] Sasha Hutchings: Now, guys, I want to point out we are at about the 45 minute mark.

[45:48] Nik Walker: And we have we have yet to talk about anything having to do with the movies.

[45:52] Sasha Hutchings: So here's what I'm gonna say. This is this is where we will stop this episode.

[45:55] Nik Walker: We're stopping it now. It's done.

[45:57] Sasha Hutchings: Okay, and we're gonna pick up hot dogs.

[45:57] Nik Walker: Hot dogs, hot dogs.

[46:02] Sasha Hutchings: Hot dogs, hot dogs, hot dogs.

[46:03] Nik Walker: That's the marker.

[46:04] Sasha Hutchings: Little Justin.

[46:07] Nik Walker: Little Justin.

[46:10] Sasha Hutchings: Little Justin.

[46:13] Nik Walker: Fuck yeah.