This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Alex Smolowe: Hey, Alex.

[0:01] Nik Walker: Hi, Nick.

[0:02] Alex Smolowe: How you doing, man?

[0:04] Nik Walker: I'm feeling much better.

[0:05] Alex Smolowe: You recovered.

[0:07] Nik Walker: Good lord.

[0:08] Alex Smolowe: I've recovered. I was really concerned for a second there.

[0:11] Nik Walker: Because it wasn't just it wasn't just the COVID, but you also had like the nostril, like then if I might share.

[0:17] Alex Smolowe: Oh my god.

[0:18] Nik Walker: Yeah, no. I got COVID, and then as I was recovering from COVID, I got I don't know if it was like a cold or it was a COVID part two. It was something, and suddenly like I literally could not breathe out of my nose for like a week.

[0:30] Alex Smolowe: That's which I don't know if that's ever happened to you, but that's it's the worst feeling that there is.

[0:34] Nik Walker: Yeah, no, no, that that is the worst when you can't breathe. You know, it's it's natural. It's bad.

[0:40] Alex Smolowe: Yeah.

[0:41] Nik Walker: Um it's just like the best way possible way to end 2020 that I could think of.

[0:45] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, just get COVID.

[0:47] Nik Walker: It just complete misery.

[0:49] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, yeah. You know, I want to point out though, um, one thing. You know, now now obviously COVID is a very serious disease, and anybody who has it, who is living with it, uh, who's lost loved ones to it, we love you, and we send you so much healing energy and and good vibes. Um, because it's it's it's serious shit.

[1:08] Nik Walker: But in your specific case, Alex, now you spent 2020 uh recording this podcast with me, and you spent it in pursuit of my wife.

[1:19] Alex Smolowe: Mm-hmm.

[1:20] Nik Walker: Well, yeah, 2020 and every year prior. So I just want to make sure that you understand that I'm not saying it was karma, but I am saying stay away from my family. Do you know what I mean?

[1:34] Alex Smolowe: You're you're saying that I got COVID as as cosmic punishment.

[1:41] Nik Walker: Yes.

[1:42] Alex Smolowe: For pursuing Sarah.

[1:44] Nik Walker: Yes. How do you feel about that, man?

[1:47] Alex Smolowe: I would do it all over again.

[1:51] Nik Walker: Fuck you.

[1:53] Alex Smolowe: Little Justin.

[1:56] Nik Walker: Little Justin.

[1:59] Alex Smolowe: Little Justin.

[2:03] Nik Walker: Fuck you.

[2:07] Alex Smolowe: What does Sarah get? Why does she not get punished?

[2:12] Nik Walker: She's part of this.

[2:13] Alex Smolowe: No, she didn't get shit.

[2:14] Nik Walker: Welcome, welcome, welcome to Little Justice.

[2:18] Alex Smolowe: She is part of it.

[2:20] Nik Walker: She's really part of it.

[2:21] Alex Smolowe: It takes two to tango.

[2:23] Nik Walker: It does. It does. She she absolutely, she absolutely is in there.

[2:26] Alex Smolowe: Guys, you know, we're back. We're back. We're back. Alex is is recovered. We are back recording these wonderful episodes. And we have one of the most amazing guests ever to uh this week, um, a young man who uh has kind of made his mark on not only the the podcast industry, but also the improv industry, the theater industry, the acting industry, and also just the just being a genuinely good human being industry. Uh Michael Paul Smith, welcome, welcome, welcome to the show, my friend.

[2:55] Michael Paul Smith: Hey guys, I am transfixed by that conversation I was just eavesdropping on. Wow.

[3:01] Nik Walker: It's always so awkward when we have a guest on and we have to we have to do our cold open and know that the guest is just sitting there like waiting for us to finish our bullshit.

[3:10] Michael Paul Smith: I love it.

[3:11] Nik Walker: I was riveted. I love it because it it sets, you know. If you if you if you live listen to our cold open, it's gonna set up the tone for the entire thing. So, like if you thought you were coming to something that wasn't this, now you know.

[3:24] Alex Smolowe: Oh my god.

[3:25] Nik Walker: And and when we have more serious guests too, it's just like like people who like are real industry professional, like big types who like we're just like like Michael, you're just like a friend of ours. Like, we're just happy to shoot the shit with you and all that. Uh, but what when we have people on who like maybe we haven't talked to since we approached them to do our podcast, all that, and we make them sit there and listen to us talk about how I'm gonna steal Nick's wife and and we're gonna murder each other one day.

[3:51] Michael Paul Smith: Oh, it's terrible.

[3:52] Nik Walker: And it's and it's also funny, Michael, because one of the things that I learned from watching you guys do your podcast was that efficiency of time because you know, especially with Hamelcast and with with all you know, with the with the pods that you guys do over there, you guys are smart enough to record your cold opens without the guests listening. You record them on your own time.

[4:10] Michael Paul Smith: We don't do that here.

[4:12] Nik Walker: I mean, it might just be that we forget to do it until the end and then we're just like, oh, it's just us. Oh, we'll just do it. We'll just get it over with. But it's probably smarter.

[4:21] Michael Paul Smith: It's smarter.

[4:21] Nik Walker: It's smart, and then you're not, you're not, you know, you're not, it's it's not crazy, it's not awkward, but but more importantly, let's get let's get to you, man. So, how are you doing? How's life? How's your soul? How you feeling? What's that?

[4:31] Michael Paul Smith: I'm doing great. I I have to ask if Alex is uh Alex, can you smell yet again? Because I am a I am a little justice listener, as I've I shouted from the rooftops, and so I'm concerned about your sense of smell.

[4:43] Alex Smolowe: I I appreciate your concern. That means a lot to me. Uh here's the thing I never really had a sense of smell to begin with.

[4:49] Michael Paul Smith: Jesus Christ.

[4:50] Alex Smolowe: Weird thing about me, like I there's something going on. One day I will get it figured out. Um, I've never I could smell technically if something's really bad, I can smell it. Every now and then I'll get a whiff of coffee or something like that. But kind of as a rule, I have my smell is my most muted sense.

[5:08] Michael Paul Smith: So I couldn't really tell if it had disappeared.

[5:10] Alex Smolowe: My wife, on the other hand, she could tell immediately. And and also her taste. Because those two things are are pretty interconnected.

[5:17] Michael Paul Smith: I definitely noticed the taste thing.

[5:19] Alex Smolowe: Um, but so you've gotten back what little smell you had.

[5:22] Michael Paul Smith: I've gotten back what little smell that I had.

[5:24] Alex Smolowe: Right.

[5:25] Michael Paul Smith: It and and it's it I think I've it's one of those things that you just get used to it after a while. You just think, oh, this is how the world is, right? Like oh everybody can only smell a little bit.

[5:30] Alex Smolowe: Right.

[5:34] Michael Paul Smith: But it's really not true. I really I really need to get checked out.

[5:36] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, you should go to a doctor, man.

[5:38] Michael Paul Smith: I really should go to a doc.

[5:40] Alex Smolowe: You know, when we're out of lockdown. Uh because wait, well now, this is interesting because Michael, you you're not in lockdown yet, right? New York is still you guys are still popping and moving a little bit.

[5:49] Michael Paul Smith: Uh yeah, I mean, to the extent that that uh we were before, but I think uh you know, the the laws are always changing, and I'm such a homebody anyway, and I'm taking every precaution. So like I'm not like refreshing the New York one Twitter like like I would be if I had to just like be outside all the time. Um but I think the schools are still closed, it's still remote learning and stuff like that, and I think the the bars and restaurants are getting more and more restricted. I think they're only allowed to be open until nine now. Um so yeah, it's it's it's getting back to those those days.

[6:21] Nik Walker: It's pretty but I think yeah, I think I I saw today that most of 25% of the fatalities are in Staten Island, where only five percent of the population is.

[6:31] Alex Smolowe: Dude.

[6:32] Michael Paul Smith: So uh I don't know what what's it's a lot of people who are not wearing masks down there is what's happening.

[6:38] Nik Walker: It's really cra and I'm not again, we're not trying to shame anybody here, but but at a certain point, you know, because I I've been watching the Cuomo briefings. Um and and again, I've said this earlier on this on this pod. I don't you know, Cuomo, not my favorite politician, but I you c I cannot argue with the way that he's handled this pandemic and he really has handled it.

[6:55] Alex Smolowe: And it it's it's really amazing to see.

[6:57] Nik Walker: But the thing is, you know, you watch the briefings and he was talking about Staten Island, and it's like you had the dude what what's that? I don't know what this gentleman's name, but uh the guy who was running the bar uh uh you know, illegally, you know, without like without COVID.

[7:09] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, that guy.

[7:10] Nik Walker: And then ran his Alex, I don't know if you heard about this. This dude, when he was getting his place got shut down, this guy gets in his car and runs his car into a freaking deputy and drives with him on the hood of his car for like I think it's like a hundred yards or some shit, like out just out of protest because you know, you're you're cutting in on our freedoms.

[7:30] Alex Smolowe: And it's like, y'all, Staten Island, I don't know what y'all are smoking over there, but please get with the program.

[7:37] Nik Walker: Well, here's where we're getting now is like because it's been going on for so long, it it really is there are so many people's livelihoods who are disappearing, and it's it's a no-win situation. I do think that politically it's gotten very, very confused.

[7:49] Alex Smolowe: Yes.

[7:55] Nik Walker: It's a very hard situation, and I know in in LA in California, they're making some some questionable calls in terms of you know what can stay open and what can't. It's because there's no science to back it up. It's easy to shut down restaurants, but you can't shut down the Hollywood money, you can't shut down chutes, you can't shut down things.

[8:13] Alex Smolowe: So there's that woman who who was losing her restaurant, she can't open her restaurant and watching right across the street, a film crew eat in the same exact way under a tent outside that she had set up in a restaurant.

[8:25] Nik Walker: No, you know, and and it's I get I get that everyone needs to be safe and we need to do this in the right way, but I I think it's gotten very, very messy uh when the people who are making those calls about how to do it are are you know going to dinner parties, and everybody around and going to dinner parties and taking vacations and yeah, uh I get I get where the frustrations are, but don't run your car into people. Don't do that.

[8:50] Michael Paul Smith: And this is and and Michael, I don't know what you think about this, but this is something that I've thought about often because I'm like, at the end of the day, you you know, Alex talks about doing it right. How you do this right is you pay, I'm sorry, you pay people to shut down. If you're gonna have somebody shut down that business, then they need to get paid. And I think that you know what I mean. That's that's just something that's that's happening.

[9:10] Alex Smolowe: But um and I think I think the messy part is that people then equate, like, oh well then I'm not gonna wear a mask, I'm not gonna adhere to any of it.

[9:18] Nik Walker: Right?

[9:18] Alex Smolowe: They the whole thing gets all lumped together, like I'm not gonna tell let them tell me what to do. Like, no, wear a mask. Like the the science is obvious in that regard. Like, be safe, be safe for other people. Um, I don't know. We're gonna get through this thing.

[9:33] Nik Walker: We're gonna get through this thing.

[9:34] Michael Paul Smith: No, hey, we started we started we started those vaccines, y'all. Started those vaccines. I'm sick of the I'm sick of having to start every episode of this podcast with a description of what's going on in the world, right?

[9:44] Alex Smolowe: Yes, true.

[9:45] Nik Walker: That will always be the that'll always be the case. But the vaccines are coming. We're we're hanging tight. That lovely 90-year-old lady in the Christmas sweater. So she was the first one. Love her. Love her.

[9:55] Michael Paul Smith: And and I love the dude in Britain who's like, well, listen, I you know, it's too late to die now. Like, I'm I'm just getting ready, yeah.

[10:03] Nik Walker: Good for you, man. Good boy. Good boy. You get it, you get it.

[10:06] Michael Paul Smith: Um, but you know, most importantly, you know, we we're just trying to, yeah. I I agree with you, Alex, that it is it always sucks having an open talking about goddamn COVID, but we do have to it does, but but yeah, if you if you go back and listen to all the episodes all the way through, it really does document where we've been the progression, where we've been, and where we're going, and and what what joy where are we going right now?

[10:30] Nik Walker: Well, right now, I mean, I want to talk about I want to talk a little bit about this this year.

[10:35] Michael Paul Smith: Document, oh, you missed it.

[10:36] Nik Walker: No, I don't see I know what you're doing, but I'm not ready to go there yet.

[10:39] Alex Smolowe: See, and Michael, Alex is trying to pivot.

[10:42] Nik Walker: Too soon.

[10:43] Michael Paul Smith: Oh, I know. I I again I'm a listener, you guys. I know I know the ongoing debate over who gets to pivot.

[10:49] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[10:49] Michael Paul Smith: Looking out for the pivot.

[10:50] Nik Walker: Did I pivot too early?

[10:51] Michael Paul Smith: You pivot.

[10:52] Nik Walker: I think I might have pivoted too early.

[10:53] Michael Paul Smith: You pivot too early because we gotta talk about it.

[10:55] Nik Walker: Opportunities are when opportunity presents itself. You are an opportunity, and you need to not present yourself.

[11:03] Alex Smolowe: Okay.

[11:03] Nik Walker: I'm trying to talk about this young man's amazing radio play, 'Twas the night. Do you know what I mean? Before we get to anything about our movies, we gotta talk about the the fact that that Michael is spreading so much joy. So, Michael, talk to us about this because you, you know, look, you have 10 Michael read sketches in the microphones. You are you've done work at the Irish rep. You you are an improv actor, you are a theater actor. And and and you wrote this this started as a play, correct? Before it was a radio play. This was an actual just original play.

[11:32] Michael Paul Smith: So yeah, what was what was this for you?

[11:35] Michael Paul Smith: Uh this was something that I wrote over a Memorial Day weekend because I wished it was Christmas. I'm such a a Christmas and winter fan. Uh in fact, all of my major gift buying happens in December because it's my wedding anniversary, it's Jillian's birthday, it's our dating anniversary, and it's Christmas. It all happens for me in December. So I wrote I wrote that, and then it got produced uh a few years ago by my friends at Long Island Theatre Collective, which is a a company on Long Island, which uh where I'm from.

[12:03] Nik Walker: Right.

[12:03] Michael Paul Smith: And um a couple years later, we did it in the city as a reading, and I got my manager from that reading. And yes, for you actors out there, industry people occasionally still go to things in person, at least they will again. Yes. Once this whole thing blows over. And uh, and now we're doing it as a radio play. So I've had to like retrofit it each time and tighten the screws on it each time as we go along. Um, but it is essentially it's a comedy about um a family in the present day in New York City, and the entire poem, A Visit from St. Nicholas, also known as Twas the Night Before Christmas, by Clement Clark Moore, the entire poem happens to them down to every last detail that I could possibly justify.

[12:42] Nik Walker: Right.

[12:42] Michael Paul Smith: So it starts off with the the mom, if you will, uh uh convincing her husband to wear these old timey Christmas pajamas. Because as I'm writing it, I'm like, well, I gotta get her in a kerchief and I gotta get him in a cap if we're gonna do this. And then on and on we go from there.

[12:59] Nik Walker: And it's a terrifying ordeal for them for the most part.

[13:02] Michael Paul Smith: And they're convinced uh that her younger brother is playing a cruel joke on them. And so who is my favorite young sounding prankster that I know? It's me. Nik Walker.

[13:14] Nik Walker: So Nick Walker plays plays the younger brother, and he and Nick, you have a very tricky role in this because you're you're very, very funny, but you also they there's also like a cathartic, serious conversation that he has with his sister, and they sort of like they talk some things out, some family history sort of things, and uh you nail it, you kill it. And I hope it I hope it makes you proud.

[13:35] Nik Walker: How old is this character?

[13:37] Michael Paul Smith: He's supposed to be a freshman in college.

[13:39] Nik Walker: Oh, okay. So you're not doing like a little kid voice picture.

[13:43] Michael Paul Smith: I haven't had to do one of those since since I was a freshman in college. Uh but no, you know, it's so funny because so I get a I get an email from from uh Michael and Jillian, you know, being like, this was like months ago, like, hey, twas the night, we're trying to get this thing together. Um, you know, it's gonna be a big thing. We got we got Mischief Man behind it, we got all these cool people. And look, the thing, you know, you you get to, you know, as as all of us are artists, how often have we had the question, you know, read read each other's scripts and do each other's projects and all this thing. And that's that's what happens, right? And it's it's very rare that you open you open those emails and like it's like a thing that like actually grabs you and actually and and I gotta say, again, just and I I will I will be as you are a herald of our of our projects, I will be a herald of yours. You are fucking hysterical, dude.

[14:33] Michael Paul Smith: And so my job on that on that on that recording was literally just to show up and read your words. And it was it was very easy. Uh it you know what I mean.

[14:44] Michael Paul Smith: Like you you you have it so well put out. And it's not like again, it's not like you're dealing with small potatoes. I mean, literally, this show is like a Hamilton reunion from like every generation of Hamilton. You got you got C Jack in there, you got James Eigelhart being an idiot. You got you have you have me, you have Lexi Garcia, Fergie, everybody as well. Eddie Lee, yeah. Eddie Lee shows up. Oh my god, yeah. It's and and not to mention Patrick Hines and and Jillian and like and yourself. So Patrick Hines, he's in there. And Anisa Folds from Freestyle Love Supreme, who plays opposite me. She plays she plays the mom. Who I've I mo I recently met uh on on the chaos twins, and she is just such a delight, such a wonderful, wonderful person. Um in two recording days. I love it. She's yeah, couldn't have couldn't have asked for better.

[15:30] Nik Walker: Yeah, dude. So how can I get my hands on this thing then?

[15:35] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah, well, it's it's going to be in the in the Hamelcast feed, and it's also gonna be at twas the nightplay.com. And the Haml cast, anyone that listens to it knows that they don't have ads. This we will have one sponsor for this radio play, and it is the Actors Fund. It's just a fundraiser for the actors fund. So that's why it's gonna be in those two places, and it's of course executive produced by my great and powerful inspiring wife, Jillian Pensavalli.

[16:01] Nik Walker: There you go.

[16:03] Michael Paul Smith: And I'm I'm excited for that. Nick, if I if I wrote something, would you be in in what I wrote you?

[16:07] Alex Smolowe: Now, here's the thing, Michael. He asked this question. Uh I was in something that he wrote. Uh, you know what I mean? And exactly.

[16:14] Michael Paul Smith: He Alex likes to credit my entire career to him.

[16:18] Alex Smolowe: And I I can't deny that he did give me my start in a way.

[16:24] Michael Paul Smith: In a way. Uh there's a yeah, this short film called Borderland that uh that was actually really good.

[16:30] Nik Walker: It it made you, yeah.

[16:32] Michael Paul Smith: It did make me.

[16:33] Nik Walker: It didn't make me. The question is, would you ever would you ever trust me again?

[16:36] Michael Paul Smith: I with anything.

[16:37] Alex Smolowe: Debatable.

[16:38] Michael Paul Smith: Now, now that I know it's debatable, debatable.

[16:40] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[16:41] Michael Paul Smith: But uh but was it not an ideal onset experience for you?

[16:44] Nik Walker: No, here's the thing. Actually, if I'm speaking real, and uh, you know what? It's it's holiday time, so I'm gonna be so nice.

[16:50] Michael Paul Smith: Please speak real, be real.

[16:51] Nik Walker: It was it was one of the most fun times I've had on set. 100%. Just because it was I think that we were all I think Alex, as much as I hate to give him credit, he had a really good fucking idea, and um, and he knew exactly what he wanted out of that shoot. And we, you know, it was me and and my buddies making this war film and like and like really pushing each other. And I think that especially with me and and Luke, who was uh Luke Humphrey was also in it, um, you know, we kind of had this like, you know, we were we were two cocky young actors coming right at NYU. So we were trying to try like really trying to out act each other. That was like and it's why it was one of those ideal situations too for actors where it it the whole movie is just two people talking to each other in a really dramatic situation.

[17:39] Michael Paul Smith: Oh, yeah.

[17:40] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[17:40] Michael Paul Smith: So there's a lot of the rehearsals were great because it's just it's just the three of us sitting there rehearsing. And and I mean the night before we were going to shoot this huge like historic storm rolled through and messed everything up. So we had to kind of like retool the script to fit, like suddenly night became day and it was raining the whole time and all this stuff, but like we used that time to like hunker down in the basement and rehearse over and over and over again, like work it. And it's kind of a yeah, kind of a dream situation. Alex had one bit of direction for me though.

[18:06] Michael Paul Smith: And this is this, you know, when I was when I was doing this recording with Michael, Michael was actually being a great director and giving me like okay.

[18:17] Nik Walker: Try this.

[18:18] Michael Paul Smith: Alex, what was your one phrase of direction for me on that set?

[18:22] Alex Smolowe: Well, I think what every good actor should remember uh if if there is something in your life that you can pull from, yeah, yeah, you use it.

[18:33] Michael Paul Smith: That's all he would say to me, Michael. He would say use it.

[18:36] Alex Smolowe: Use it.

[18:37] Michael Paul Smith: Use your life.

[18:38] Alex Smolowe: That's it.

[18:38] Michael Paul Smith: And just like, and it would be like about things. I'd be like, Alex, like, when is when is when's getting here? When's crafty opening up?

[18:45] Alex Smolowe: Use it.

[18:46] Michael Paul Smith: Like, that doesn't make any sense. Are you you're hungry? You're getting irritated?

[18:49] Alex Smolowe: Use it.

[18:50] Michael Paul Smith: Use it.

[18:51] Alex Smolowe: Use it.

[18:52] Michael Paul Smith: Uh huh.

[18:52] Alex Smolowe: I hate it.

[18:53] Michael Paul Smith: I hate it so much.

[18:54] Alex Smolowe: And the film turned out really well.

[18:55] Michael Paul Smith: So it did.

[18:56] Nik Walker: It did.

[18:56] Michael Paul Smith: Oh, it really did.

[18:57] Nik Walker: So what do I have to do to get you guys in a meeting?

[18:59] Michael Paul Smith: You want me to facilitate this?

[19:01] Nik Walker: I mean, you guys.

[19:02] Michael Paul Smith: Let's go, Michael.

[19:03] Nik Walker: You say the word there.

[19:04] Michael Paul Smith: And we're just gonna we're gonna make it happen.

[19:06] Alex Smolowe: Um in the meantime, you know, before why don't we document this uh this wonderful reunion of our

[19:06] Michael Paul Smith: I already did it.

[19:15] Nik Walker: I like that I I took the steam as god damn it.

[19:21] Michael Paul Smith: I can't let you, I can't let you have it.

[19:19] Nik Walker: I can't let you pivot.

[19:24] Nik Walker: You already pivoted.

[19:25] Michael Paul Smith: That's my thing.

[19:25] Nik Walker: That was the smoothest pivot you've done so far, Nick.

[19:27] Michael Paul Smith: Okay.

[19:27] Michael Paul Smith: Because I think some of this some of your other ones were were pretty clumsy, I have to say.

[19:31] Nik Walker: Oh, I agree.

[19:31] Nik Walker: You've had some terrible.

[19:33] Michael Paul Smith: No, no.

[19:33] Nik Walker: I'm really bad at pivoting guys.

[19:35] Michael Paul Smith: No, thank you.

[19:36] Nik Walker: No, but yeah, today we're we wanted to do the documentary movie. And and we also had this funny moment where we realized that that is such a broad definition. Like what we were like, oh yeah, but so we set this up and I I texted Nick, like, I think we should do a documentary movie. Like in the beginning stages of figuring out what topic to go with. Let's do a documentary this time thinking, okay, a specific kind of documentary. That's like there's there's I don't know. Documentary itself, I guess is technically a genre, but it's more a style.

[20:09] Michael Paul Smith: Style.

[20:10] Nik Walker: I don't know. Yeah. Michael, have you do you have do you watch a lot of documentary movies? Do you do you have you had experience with them?

[20:17] Michael Paul Smith: I do, yeah. I watch a ton. I mean, uh as some of you know, my my wife also uh recaps true crime documentaries for one of her podcasts. So I wind up having to watch a lot of those. Um and doc there are certain documentaries that I will put on because they inspire me so much that I'll just put them on while I write instead of music.

[20:37] Nik Walker: Interesting.

[20:39] Michael Paul Smith: One of my one of my choices is one of those. I love that.

[20:42] Nik Walker: But yeah, I I love I love documentaries.

[20:44] Michael Paul Smith: Interesting.

[20:45] Nik Walker: They tend to be a good idea.

[20:45] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah, because I usually yeah, I usually put on narrative films to get inspired, like uh a product of a creative thing instead of because documentaries tend you know, they get pretty real, you gotta pay attention.

[20:55] Michael Paul Smith: Uh so what what is it about documentary instead of of like a fiction film that inspires you creatively?

[21:01] Michael Paul Smith: Um, well, specifically, I can't tell you about this one because of I, you know, of course it's gonna be a reveal. But my favorite thing to write to is probably Ken Burns jazz, because it just puts me in this creative world.

[21:12] Nik Walker: Well, yeah.

[21:13] Michael Paul Smith: And I don't have to worry about it for a while. I can just let it play.

[21:16] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[21:16] Michael Paul Smith: Ken Burns in general, yeah, as a whole, that's a whole genre unto himself.

[21:20] Nik Walker: I mean, that's a who I think that's the only way to get through an entire Ken Burns series.

[21:25] Michael Paul Smith: You gotta do other things.

[21:26] Nik Walker: Doing something else at the same time.

[21:28] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah, totally.

[21:29] Nik Walker: It gets it gets rough.

[21:30] Michael Paul Smith: It gets rough over there. Um, you know, and and but that but that's why I mean, and this is, you know, again, Michael, while we're we're probably having to have to have you back because documentary is such a big expansive genre. There's so many, just like so many of the things we pick, there's there's so many little pockets within it that you know, we're gonna pick these movies and tell you about these movies, but not the end by any means. You know, we're gonna we're gonna have a lot more to talk about.

[21:53] Alex Smolowe: Um after my only question to Nick when he said documentary was I said, does it have to be a documentary that had a theatrical release?

[21:59] Michael Paul Smith: And he said, No, because so many of them don't.

[22:01] Alex Smolowe: So I was just like, that would be a good one.

[22:02] Michael Paul Smith: It's a good question, though.

[22:04] Nik Walker: Well, that's that's the thing about documentary, right? Is it's it's all drawn from real life stuff. Even if there's like, you know, uh they they reenact things or whatever, everything's being drawn from and about real life.

[22:17] Michael Paul Smith: Um so where was I going with this?

[22:20] Nik Walker: I've still got this COVID brain fog where I start in one place and then I end up somewhere else.

[22:25] Michael Paul Smith: I don't like that.

[22:26] Nik Walker: I don't like that either.

[22:27] Michael Paul Smith: I had a point to make and I can't find it.

[22:30] Nik Walker: That's the first time that's ever happened.

[22:31] Michael Paul Smith: Terrifying.

[22:32] Nik Walker: Wow.

[22:33] Michael Paul Smith: Yikes, terrifying.

[22:34] Nik Walker: Yikes, yikes.

[22:34] Michael Paul Smith: Well, how about this? While you're in your brain fog, we're gonna take a break.

[22:37] Nik Walker: And when I say a break, sometimes, you know, here's the thing, guys. Sometimes we take these breaks and there isn't an ad playing for some stupid reason.

[22:44] Michael Paul Smith: So if there isn't an ad playing, then we'll just see you in like a second.

[22:47] Nik Walker: It's gonna be really awkward.

[22:48] Michael Paul Smith: But if there is an ad playing, you're gonna listen to the ad, and then we'll come back and we'll talk about movies, alright?

[22:53] Nik Walker: So let's see what happens.

[22:55] Michael Paul Smith: Now I love that.

[23:03] Nik Walker: Nice job.

[23:03] Michael Paul Smith: Thank you.

[23:04] Nik Walker: Does that really happen?

[23:05] Michael Paul Smith: Oh, yeah.

[23:10] Nik Walker: So like it just won't show up for like a week.

[23:14] Michael Paul Smith: No.

[23:14] Nik Walker: And I'm like, and then you listen to it, you're like, yo, there's like a there's like a blank.

[23:19] Michael Paul Smith: We we said I listened to a couple of uh sports podcasts where they throw to commercial like that, but they don't have sponsors.

[23:26] Nik Walker: So they will literally knowingly just be like, all right, and right after this break, hey, we're back.

[23:30] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah, we're back.

[23:31] Nik Walker: Yeah, we're back.

[23:32] Michael Paul Smith: I have one guy, he does an Islanders podcast, and he does like station identification at the end of the at the end of every episode.

[23:39] Nik Walker: But it's like, dude, it's a podcast. I had to click on this to listen to it.

[23:42] Michael Paul Smith: I know I know who you are.

[23:43] Nik Walker: Right.

[23:44] Michael Paul Smith: You know where it is.

[23:45] Nik Walker: Like Mike Carver, I LC podcast signing off.

[23:46] Michael Paul Smith: Like, oh my god.

[23:48] Nik Walker: You're not on the radio.

[23:50] Michael Paul Smith: But it should be.

[23:51] Nik Walker: And that's what he's saying.

[23:52] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah, he definitely definitely has that mindset.

[23:55] Nik Walker: I belong to I'm gonna I'm gonna start signing off from this.

[23:59] Michael Paul Smith: You should.

[24:00] Nik Walker: Alex Smolowe for a little justice.

[24:03] Michael Paul Smith: Exactly.

[24:04] Nik Walker: I love it.

[24:04] Michael Paul Smith: I love it.

[24:05] Nik Walker: It's brilliant, it's brilliant.

[24:07] Michael Paul Smith: But we are back.

[24:08] Nik Walker: We're talking about uh we're talking about documentary films, documentary movies.

[24:11] Michael Paul Smith: Uh, we're gonna discuss them.

[24:13] Nik Walker: So this is gonna be interesting, guys, because I gotta be honest, I don't know. I don't know a lot of documentaries, so I don't not gonna be able to get these.

[24:19] Michael Paul Smith: I don't I'm worried about that, but uh I'm not gonna be able to guess them.

[24:22] Nik Walker: Do you not yeah, Nick? Do you do you not watch documentaries?

[24:25] Michael Paul Smith: I do watch documentaries, but not enough that like if you're not if you're not talking about a documentary that I've seen, will I be able to even estimate it?

[24:33] Nik Walker: Do you know what I mean?

[24:34] Michael Paul Smith: I do, I I watch now what I do watch is a lot of mockumentaries, which are not documentaries at all.

[24:40] Nik Walker: Well, yeah, but very different.

[24:42] Michael Paul Smith: We will definitely do that.

[24:43] Nik Walker: That's another great episode idea, though.

[24:45] Michael Paul Smith: Absolutely.

[24:46] Nik Walker: We will have to.

[24:47] Michael Paul Smith: Well, so doc I mean, documentaries are tough uh to to single out because there's so many different types.

[24:55] Michael Paul Smith: Yes.

[24:56] Nik Walker: Like like tr the true crime documentary, obviously Jillian knows this very well.

[25:01] Michael Paul Smith: Uh is it its own thing.

[25:02] Nik Walker: And I think it's been really uh enhanced by television in the last few years.

[25:07] Michael Paul Smith: Yep.

[25:08] Nik Walker: Um, where, you know, uh it's interesting. Crime is interesting. People getting murdered, as terrible as it is, is interesting. People doing things and getting away with it. People unsolved mysteries, it's it's always been a fascinating thing to people.

[25:21] Michael Paul Smith: Uh so so it's taken its own little niche, right?

[25:24] Nik Walker: It's own little chunk of doc the documentary world where you almost have to separate between crime documentaries and other.

[25:30] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah.

[25:31] Nik Walker: Um because I at the root of a documentary, it's if you're doing it right, the idea is uh to answer the question of who are we?

[25:40] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah, right?

[25:40] Nik Walker: Who are we actually?

[25:42] Michael Paul Smith: Who are we underneath our facade?

[25:45] Nik Walker: What are these things going on in our world?

[25:47] Michael Paul Smith: What you know, so the I think I think the best documentaries are the ones that engage with that and answer it.

[25:52] Nik Walker: And it could be about crime and still give us that.

[25:54] Michael Paul Smith: Absolutely.

[25:55] Nik Walker: Absolutely. I think I think you're right.

[25:56] Michael Paul Smith: I think you're absolutely right.

[25:57] Nik Walker: And then I also I love the I love the kind of the the stories that still manage to get told, right? It's you know, it's not just a snapshot, it's not just a picture, it's also, you know, learning these lessons from from the past or from I mean, it has to be the past because it's documenting something that happened.

[26:18] Michael Paul Smith: Um, you know, so it really is kind of this this perfect little, you know, insight to who we are.

[26:25] Nik Walker: This it's it almost reminds me of the the essay film, right?

[26:27] Michael Paul Smith: Uh Adam McKay is kind of at the forefront right now doing uh films that are also basically essays, and you set it up with a thesis and then you go through and show the evidence for that thesis.

[26:38] Nik Walker: And I think the best documentaries are just well written pieces of argument, you know, um well crafted.

[26:46] Michael Paul Smith: Um see so yeah, guys, I'm I'm I'm do d does a does a good documentary have to have to take a subject and reveal something new about it, or is engagement enough?

[26:59] Alex Smolowe: Huh.

[27:00] Michael Paul Smith: Huh.

[27:01] Michael Paul Smith: I think I always learn something new if it's a good documentary, but uh I always think like, oh, that whenever I learn something new in in a documentary, I watch a lot of historical documentaries, and so I usually feel a sense of shame, like I probably should have known that.

[27:15] Nik Walker: I should have known that by now.

[27:16] Michael Paul Smith: So I don't know if if they reveal something new to to everyone, but I think in my experience they do.

[27:21] Nik Walker: You know, it's so funny because I've been w I've been falling asleep to I I take that back because I've been falling asleep to a lot of BBC history documentaries like ancient Rome, like all that stuff. And I do think they I think that they do reveal those truths, right? Because 'cause, you know, Michael, you say you should you shouldn't know that or you should know that, but it's like some of this stuff is so specific, right? Some of this stuff is like is just is just, you know, yeah, you might get the the general sense, but a documentary is gonna be the thing, you know, that shows you.

[27:49] Michael Paul Smith: I remember there's the documentary that came out, uh I I hope this isn't anyone's choice.

[27:54] Nik Walker: Did anyone choose a documentary that was produced by Peter Jackson?

[27:58] Michael Paul Smith: No?

[27:59] Nik Walker: No.

[27:59] Michael Paul Smith: Negative.

[28:00] Nik Walker: Good.

[28:00] Michael Paul Smith: So there's a documentary, uh documentary that came out. Uh Peter Jackson produced it uh about World War One.

[28:06] Nik Walker: Um did you uh they shall not grow old.

[28:06] Michael Paul Smith: They shall not grow old.

[28:12] Nik Walker: Ooh, that was that would have been a good choice, actually.

[28:14] Michael Paul Smith: It was no, it would be a great choice.

[28:15] Nik Walker: And what I I mean, Michael, did you ever did you hear about this one?

[28:18] Michael Paul Smith: Yes.

[28:19] Michael Paul Smith: Just heard about it though, didn't see it.

[28:21] Nik Walker: So it's I mean, it's beautiful I I I went to see it. Well, I forget what city we were in. I think it was I think it might have been like Portland or Seattle. Um, and it was beautiful because he, you know, the the kind of the the gimmick of this documentary was that he took World War One footage um and colorized it. So you're looking at these guys, um and not just color not just colorized it, but but uh changed because cameras back then recorded at a different frame rate, right? It's why everything looks a little jumpy, moves a little faster than reality. You get that old timey feel.

[28:56] Michael Paul Smith: Um he filled in the empty frames.

[28:58] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[28:59] Michael Paul Smith: In addition to colorizing it, expanding the image. They literally, I mean, whether went in and and completely turned this footage into stuff that it looks now. So what it what it does is it gives you this sense that World War One, which feels like something out of an old textbook, right? Something's literally a hundred. It's so distant.

[29:16] Nik Walker: Yeah, it makes it feel so relevant.

[29:18] Michael Paul Smith: You see how young these kids were, you see how bad it got, how crazy and brutal and violent and hopeful and it it it's and and without any real I it just let it speak for itself, right?

[29:33] Michael Paul Smith: It used old newsreel, you know, yeah, you had speeches and stuff. Yeah, you had some, I think you had a lot of actors coming in and reading these texts and these letters from guys. Right, letters and stuff, yeah. And uh but it was yeah, it was just it was just powerful when you saw that was kind of the thing that was revealed, right? Was all of a sudden there was no distance between you and these these men. Uh you really understood that these were people that could you could have been right next to you, you know. You could be, you know, it's it's they're just babies, they're little babies out in in and fighting this war, and it was really uh effective. So, you know, I think I think a documentary can, even if it's a topic that we obstensibly know about, you know, World War One, World War II.

Um, I think a document a good documentary shows you something you didn't know, you know, uh in a great way. Um so yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh do we want to, you know, as always, we save our our guest for for last. You have the seat of honor. Um Alex, do you want do you want me to go or show do you want to go?

[30:32] Alex Smolowe: I can go first, because mine mine's pretty light fair. Uh again, I find myself, uh we get into these, I find myself choosing when I don't know what to choose. I go with my comfort movies and my the things that I love, right? Because at the end of the day, this is about what we think is the best. I don't I don't know that this is to me the the best documentary or the best use of documentary. Um because there are like like there's so much that there's so much good stuff that does so much groundbreaking work. Yeah. Um this is the only documentary that I've seen more than three times. Love it. I've watched this movie six, seven, eight, nine. I don't even know. I just keep coming back to it. Um it launched the career of its director uh in a big way.

And I don't know, there's just there's just something there's just something about it that really resonates with me on a on a human level. Um and I just think it's it's a beautiful film. So yeah, you'll get it immediately. And call and call it out because I wasn't actually able to track down a copy, so I'm going for memory here.

[31:42] Michael Paul Smith: I love that. Complete memory. And I watched another documentary in preparation for this and decided to go with this one instead.

[31:47] Alex Smolowe: I love that. We open on a table to a line delivered in Japanese.

[31:57] Michael Paul Smith: Roger and me.

[31:59] Alex Smolowe: No.

[32:00] Michael Paul Smith: Oh man, I thought outsourcing launched his career.

[32:03] Alex Smolowe: Damn.

[32:04] Michael Paul Smith: No, no, no. Got it. But that's that'd be a good one though.

[32:08] Alex Smolowe: No, the line is what is the essence of flavor?

[32:12] Michael Paul Smith: Oh, Jesus.

[32:14] Alex Smolowe: What's sushi?

[32:16] Michael Paul Smith: Yes?

[32:17] Alex Smolowe: The film is Jiro Dreams of Sushi.

[32:19] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah. Oh, yeah, you do love this one. Because I just, I mean, you know, back from from college, whenever it came out, Jiro Dreams of Sushi is a documentary. And let me get his full name that I so I can botch it. It is a Japanese language American documentary film that follows Jiro Ono, that's what it is. Jiro Ono is a sushi master who owns a small little shop underground in a subway station. And it's the only sushi restaurant to have been awarded three Michelin stars. He's considered the best sushi chef in the entire world. He's a little old little old man. Super just like adorry. Who makes sushi and that's all he does, and that's all he's done for his entire life. And it it it follows, you know, it it starts out as sort of a it's almost like a class.

It's almost like like they're asking him. He's he's delivering his um his thesis to you, right? He's talking about how he sees the art of making sushi. Uh over the course of the film, what happens as they sit with him more, as they spend more time with him, as they follow him. Um, you know, there's there's a tradition in Japan of going to visit your your ancestors' graves, um, following him to his parents' graves and hearing the the kind of side talk, uh, seeing his relationship with his son who's coming up underneath him, but he refuses to retire, so the son can never really take over. Um you realize that that he's gotten to where he is because of his work ethic, which in the beginning is presented to you as something to aspire to, you start to see the ramifications of it, right?

His kids grew up without him there because he worked, he was gone before they woke up and he came back after they were asleep. Um he, you know, he he's critical to a fault. He he leaves his employees in tears. He like and it it's just such a a heartbreaking and and lovely portrait of a person that that really you know, it takes somebody who is the best at something and allows them just just by talking to them, just by spending time with them and seeing where they are and what they do and how they feel about it, you know, it it reveals so much about human character and about ambition and about profession and about family and um and it's shot beautifully. It it's you know, the uh it I don't know. It's so good. Giro Dreams of Sushi. I remember it having a um almost like a meditative quality.

[35:12] Michael Paul Smith: It is, yeah. The mu I mean, the music is very it's almost Philip Glass like.

[35:16] Alex Smolowe: Yeah. Um which the the other film that I picked had a score by Philip Glass. I thought this actually reminds me of of Jiro a lot. Um where because the the idea and and and what this spawned was um what's the show? Uh Chef's Table. So the director of this went on to do Chef's Table for Netflix, which is the same thing where you you're taking just like the most beautiful images of food that you could have, right? It's a great sushi is a very Yeah. Right. The beauty is in the simplicity. Um it's just a little piece of something on a little black plate, and for somehow they find ways to make every individual shot of this food just like gorgeous. Like you you just your mouth waters and you can taste it and you're listening to people explain what it tastes like like as you're watching it.

Um and it just it became this fixation for me when I first saw it, uh wanting to go to Japan and like have this sushi. Um and uh yeah. I don't know. So so it's yeah, beautiful. It's no, I you know, I I think back to um, you know, when back in the in the early Hamilton days, uh not early Hamilton days, but the early tour days, I should say, me and Sarah um went to Paris and we we um we stayed with uh a family friend uh or stayed in a family friend's apartment in Paris uh for free. So all of our money for the vacation was spent on food. And Sarah lined up like literally like five star. I mean, it was well, I think we went to the like I think it was like the twenty-fourth highest ranked restaurant in the world.

Um and we ate this food. And like when when food is made at that level where it's just like I you know, it's it's just it's an art form. Um when you taste it, it is something, it truly is something transcendent. It's like oh, you have brought every ounce of flavor out of this meal. Um and that's what I remember about this movie. And also reminds me of um, I don't know if any of you watch documentary now, but uh their parody of it is one of my favorite episodes. And every didn't we see uh did they do one of this?

[37:37] Michael Paul Smith: Oh my god. It's called Juan Likes Rice and Chicken. And it's it's it's Fred Armison as like this like I think he's like like uh uh it has to be like some uh like South American uh like he like his restaurant is on like the top of like a hill, like it looks like Machu Picchu, and like you have to travel for days to get there, and they only make one dish, and it's just a plate of rice and like chicken with like a little dollop of butter on the top. Apparently it's like the most incredible thing you've ever had in your life, and like his son you know is trying to be uh be, you know, following his father's footstep, but he can't, and his father has like all these ridiculous things about how he prepares the chicken and like shoots the chicken out of like a t-shirt cannon, and like it's all ridiculous.

[38:24] Alex Smolowe: Like that's so funny.

[38:26] Michael Paul Smith: Oh my god, it's brilliant.

[38:27] Alex Smolowe: It's yeah, that's really funny. I mean, that that's kind of what this is, right? Because like sushi is like I said, like it's a very simple food.

[38:34] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah.

[38:34] Alex Smolowe: Um, and I think it it plays to the themes of it, right? Is is finding the beauty and simplicity and and always, even for something so simple, being able to get up and strive every day to be a little bit better, try a little bit harder, make it a little more perfect. Like it's it's such a good metaphor.

[38:49] Michael Paul Smith: Oh, yeah. I'm gonna watch that.

[38:52] Alex Smolowe: You should watch it again. I'm I'm looking at it now. Actually, it is Philip Glass music. They did they did use Phil not made specifically for this film. I think they they used his music from other stuff and put it in, but it's a lot of Philip Glass. There's there's an episode of um I guess it's no reservations. It was one of the two Anthony Bourdain shows.

[39:10] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah, and he he visited someone that was making that makes noodles by hand, and there's all apparently only a handful of them left, and he was just he was just in total awe, and they they captured it in the show.

[39:23] Alex Smolowe: Um at just the exactly like you said, like what it takes to make do to do one thing that well.

[39:31] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah, and to do it by hand and to just devote your time to it. And I was I was just like I I just I randomly think of that. It's like one of those episodes that it just pops into my head sometimes. Cause it because you think about what what is that who is that person who devote who can devote themselves like that. Like, there's so many more questions like when when you see somebody who has the the fortitude to do something like that, like who are they? And I think this film does a really good job of of peeling that away because he he's not a person who gives it away. It's not like he sits down and is ready to completely open up about who he is and all that. He he's got his like hardcore principles, and I'm sure you know the the speeches he's delivered to his employees over time.

I'm sure he's just regurgitating to the camera about how important it is to be focused and and always try your hardest in your career and always be better, always be better. Um it's it's what it goes beyond that. It's when you really get the glimpse at at the toll that that takes, at the human toll, uh that the film kind of elevates. Um so I mean a as a documentary I think the best documentaries can can take reality and and reveal something more about it in one way or another whether you know directly or indirectly and and this film does that for sure.

[40:43] Alex Smolowe: How do you guys eat sushi? What what do you put on it?

[40:45] Michael Paul Smith: Gotta eat it. Go, go, go.

[40:48] Alex Smolowe: Oh no well it depends. If you're eating if you're eating like Bristol farm sushi uh then you gotta get some soy sauce and some ginger and and do it up. But if you're if you're going to Jiro's restaurant you take it how it's served.

[41:02] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah I I have never had I I want to have sushi that I don't have to put anything on that's just like you don't you know when you get like that that steak that you know is just you don't put any like to put sauce on it would be an offense. I want to have that sushi.

[41:17] Alex Smolowe: I have not had it's not it's not as hard to find as you think and it's not expensive. There's there's a place I love in LA that does that where it's good it's it's good enough they prepare it well enough uh individually that you don't they tell you as they give it to you yes soy sauce no soy sauce like needs it doesn't need it.

[41:36] Michael Paul Smith: Um because they start to do little things right if there's if it needs wasabi they put the wasabi under under the fish like between the fish and the rice. If it needs soy sauce they'll brush it on top. Stuff like that when somebody really knows what they're doing. They're not going for just quantity. They're not sitting back there just churning out factory sushi for the masses. It's it's like an art form.

[41:56] Alex Smolowe: Oh yeah no there's it's beautiful I I do have to I have to see oh I'm hungry too. You know what I was thinking about? I was thinking about at Moramoto Asia in Disney Springs.

[42:05] Michael Paul Smith: They got that they got that a grade A wacky beef.

[42:09] Alex Smolowe: Uh I bet they do.

[42:10] Michael Paul Smith: Oh, it's who you don't even know.

[42:12] Alex Smolowe: You don't even know.

[42:13] Michael Paul Smith: It is, it will s make you smack your your mom in the face.

[42:17] Alex Smolowe: It's so good. Uh hey babe, you want sushi tonight?

[42:22] Michael Paul Smith: You asshole.

[42:23] Alex Smolowe: Yes.

[42:24] Michael Paul Smith: I hate you.

[42:25] Alex Smolowe: Uh beautiful Jiro Dreams of Sushi. That is Alex Smaller's choice.

[42:31] Michael Paul Smith: All right. Watching it tonight.

[42:45] Alex Smolowe: I don't know.

[42:56] Michael Paul Smith: I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna watch tonight too. Uh or if you wanna if you wanna possibly laugh, you might want to watch mine, my selection. Uh, because this this documentary This documentary is uh I don't think it's like like just like you said, Alex, I don't think it's like the perfect documentary. I really don't, but I I wanna it came out. It came out in 2019, and when I watched it, um I was just so I was I was laughing my ass off. I was also just so upset with the world. It was just one of those things where you're like, this is real, like this is a real thing, and like this is the world that we live in. Um but I I I was also just so entertained. It was just so fascinating on so many levels. So uh I'll describe the opening, and I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of paraphrase for memory the the opening lines of this.

Um because it it opens very it opens on very simple images, it opens on uh on first you see a house, and then you see uh an Instagram post, and then you see people liking the Instagram post, and then you see a party. But this is the the voice that is said over it.

[44:11] Michael Paul Smith: You're literally in your parents' basement, and you pull out your phone, which you look at a hundred times an hour. The actual experience exceeds all expectations. You see a music festival that exceeds all expectations on a deserted island owned by Pablo Escobar. These wonderful, beautiful people in places that you're not doing things you could never do. Guys, and here's the thing two documentaries came out about this moment, but there's only one that I think is I think that I think the HBO one is bullshit. I'm sorry, I'm gonna call them bullshit on that because the guys who made Fire Festival made the documentary on HBO.

[44:52] Nik Walker: Really?

[44:53] Michael Paul Smith: Oh my god, yeah. Yeah, that's bullshit.

[44:55] Alex Smolowe: Isn't it then?

[44:55] Michael Paul Smith: It's crazy. Or it's like life is art as life. Oh my god, no. The one that I'm talking about is Fire Fraud on Hulu, the Hulu dots the one that one's the one. There was music, private planes, and beautiful women swimming on an island with drugs. Man, that's about as sexy as it gets. We were all packed into a yellow school bus. And people are thinking, what's the worst thing that could possibly happen? Guys, I watched this shit this morning before my class, and I was laughing my because it's just like you guys are like we have literally built our own graves. Like we're that dumb, guys. We are we are that dumb. And this is pre-COVID. This is pre-COVID this is pre-COVID when you this man Billy McFarland duped all of these like Instagram celebrities to come out to his island like it's so ridiculous so he like it's like marketing just in like superpowers he like puts out that like they're gonna have this like exclusive festival and it's gonna be like you can like swim with like island pigs and like Caitlyn Jenner and all this stuff and like it's just it's just it's just crazy and they like flew out and like Ja Rule became part of it right because it all started it all started because Billy McFarland figured out like he wanted to do like a new kind of like Soho beach house membership credit card style thing right so he just like he was like oh well I'm just gonna make like an exclusive credit card for like young people young millennials and he literally just ordered a bunch of like black metal and cut it into credit cards and like the credit card had no actual value but he was just able to drum up enough like exclusivity that people bought into it and then from that involved and then from that they created the fire festival which guys it just is so ridiculous watching this thing count down because he puts out it's like like we had this saying you know and and I I'm sure I'm sure Michael you can attest to this like when you're trying to create something there is no better motivator to putting out a poster for the thing you're trying to create for telling it's terrifying but yes right because because once it's out, you have to do it.

[47:16] Nik Walker: Like it's you you and that's exactly what they did. They put out we're gonna throw the biggest, most exclusive festival, music festival that's ever been festivaled, and they put out all this shit about it, and they did not have one iota of knowledge of how to structure a music festival.

[47:35] Michael Paul Smith: So like there's like it's a slightly complicated process to put a music. But they knew how to take everyone's money though.

[47:40] Nik Walker: They knew how to take every single person's money. Just pay in advance.

[47:45] Michael Paul Smith: But like that's exactly right. They they were having them buy into like, yeah, we have these like amazing tent suites with like hammocks and all this shit, and then they're like building these like hazmat huts. Like they're like, we have five-star food from the finest chefs, and it's like like you see this picture of this sandwich that's in a styrofoam box. Like it just is shit. It was the funniest thing. I was like, you all got fucked. You all literally and it's it's such a beautiful portrait. Oh my god. Of American or maybe global stupidity, like the stupidity of social media and everyone's urge to like fall in. It's like the world's full of people like Billy McFarland, right? And this guy, I'm sure he doesn't hold any remorse, right? He's he's a hustler.

[48:35] Nik Walker: Yeah, he's Donald Trump.

[48:36] Michael Paul Smith: He he doesn't, you know, he doesn't care who he hurts. He wakes up and says, How the hell can I get people to give me as much money as possible today? And it doesn't matter how you do it, and it doesn't matter what's happening, and I don't even he probably doesn't even think it's wrong, right? He's just on this other like weird level. I think it's so fascinating to watch how many people are are so hungry to feel like they're doing something cooler than the next guy that they're that they're partaking in something exclusive and rich, and that because it they've bought into this fantasy, and it and it it completely translates to to the Trump presidency and to everything in that sense because it's like oh no, there's nothing there.

Like the emperor has no clothes on. At all. And it's brilliant because a guy, I just want to point out this this this young man is 28 years old, guys. 28 years old. So it's not even like so. When he was doing this, when Firefestival happened, he was what, 26, 24? Do you mean like like it's insane? And it's it's literally like a generation of people who watch the social network and were like, oh, I can do that. I'm I'm like a crazy, I'll I'll write equations on on Windows just like Andrew Garfield. I mean, like, it's like no, like you can't I remember going to see the social network walking out of the theater being like, fuck, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna go start a company by the time I got back to my apartment.

I had forgotten all about it, and I played video games. Like some people don't turn that off ever. Yeah, you just gotta and if you do have if you do want to do that and you gotta put in the work to learn how to do that. This man did not do that at all. And yeah, right. There's you do have to actually do the work.

[50:10] Nik Walker: Let me tell you, let me tell you who doesn't give you credibility to your goddamn music festival is Ja Rule. Don't just grab Ja Rule. Like he is like just the the the scion of of music industry. He's been arrested so many times. It's just so ridiculous.

[50:32] Michael Paul Smith: So fun. I mean, it's fucked up because it's like it's us and it's why we are where we are right now. But it's just like, oh my god, guys, we are dumb as a box of rocks, and Billy McFarland is at the head of that. He's now six years, uh serving six years imprisonment, uh, and he owes twenty-six million dollars in Repturing.

[50:53] Nik Walker: Yeah, they'll get that.

[50:54] Michael Paul Smith: They'll get that money.

[50:55] Nik Walker: Oh, and they will get that money, because they're not gonna nominate that money.

[50:59] Michael Paul Smith: Well, something like Fire 2 is gonna happen or something.

[51:01] Nik Walker: Oh my god, I'm sure it is.

[51:03] Michael Paul Smith: I'm positive it is. It's just I do like this documentary too, as as sort of like like some documentaries exist just to tell you what happened.

[51:12] Nik Walker: Yep.

[51:13] Michael Paul Smith: Right? It's completely historic, and that's the whole point. And it's this it it happened, and it it's so absurd what happened, that literally just telling it, and it was recent enough that they could have everybody involved talking about it and all that is it's enough to make a super entertaining movie. Like there's there's no extra stuff, it's just like, hey, you're not gonna believe this shit. That's literally what it is for an hour and a half.

[51:35] Nik Walker: Oh my god, it's so funny.

[51:37] Michael Paul Smith: So, yeah, Fire Fraud, guys. Do not watch the HBO one by Fuck Jerry, because Fuck Jerry was all about that fire festival. Watch Hulu Fire Fraud. It is so good. Nightmare in Paradise. There was no music. They were put into disaster relief tent. Slice of cheese on bread for 48 hours was the number one trending story on the news. The media loves to write about millennials that are really rich, really white, spoiled. So when you have all of them stuck on an island having a shit fit, people were gleeful. Other events that Kendall Jenner has been promoting the Mount Aetna active volcano rave. You know, this like tsunami of Schadenfreude. Um, that is my documentary, guys.

[52:20] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[52:21] Michael Paul Smith: Good choice.

[52:22] Nik Walker: Good choice. And here we are now. At the ultimate at the most important time of the episode.

[52:27] Michael Paul Smith: Come on.

[52:28] Nik Walker: Give it to us.

[52:29] Michael Paul Smith: Okay. Bring it up. Well, my documentary was on Hulu also. Uh-oh. And it opens with on-screen text. And I will read it to you right now. I'm very excited. In 1996, some of the greatest comedy talents of all time came together to create a new sketch comedy show. What resulted was arguably one of the most spectacular failures in television history. Now, more than two decades later, they've reunited to tell the story of how it all came together and how it all went to shit. And then it fades, it fades out as the primary subject of the dock is making sort of wind noises, setting up a scene of an old man telling a fable of some kind. But he was really just sort of amusing himself by going, Oh, one day, one couple of weeks ago there was a sketch comedy show.

[53:19] Alex Smolowe: And uh is this no, this is not what I think it is.

[53:22] Michael Paul Smith: What is it?

[53:25] Alex Smolowe: Holding for Alex. There's like a couple ideas I have in my head, but I can't think of the of the names or what no for it.

[53:37] Michael Paul Smith: You got us.

[53:38] Alex Smolowe: Okay.

[53:38] Michael Paul Smith: It is called Too Funny to Fail: The Life and Death of the Dana Carvey Show.

[53:42] Alex Smolowe: Wow.

[53:44] Michael Paul Smith: And it is spectacular. I've also, much like you, Alex, I've watched this at least six or seven times, or at least had it on. We had a month ago, it were airing on ABC. We weren't gonna be on live, so we could record some sketches before the premiere. And we didn't really have our own studios. We we were just in a studio on the weekends. We just frantically started writing, taping, just trying to pull the show together. Just I guess we're gonna do this. You know, because at some point you gotta shoot something.

[54:12] Nik Walker: I worked on this movie.

[54:13] Michael Paul Smith: What?

[54:14] Nik Walker: Yeah. I worked on this movie. Um, not anything exciting. I I what did I do for it? I helped. I was an assistant editor. I'm I don't know if I'm in the credits or not. I might be, but I remember watching uh going through and and having to log archival footage of all these Dana Carvey show episodes and all these different things.

[54:34] Michael Paul Smith: Holy shit.

[54:35] Nik Walker: Um I've I've completely forgotten about it. It was one of those things, you know, as it was like it was like a kind of a weird freelance gig. It lasted two, three weeks of, you know, oh cool movie by Dana Carvey. I love Dana Carvey. Uh but I think I've I've seen most of it just through watching it uh working on it.

[54:53] Michael Paul Smith: That's funny.

[54:53] Nik Walker: Wow.

[54:54] Michael Paul Smith: So it was directed by Josh Greenbaum, who also directed Becoming Bond and uh a lot of episodes of New Girl. And uh it's about basically this uh what we can now look back on as this like super group, this this supercast that at the time were was Dana Carvey and a bunch of unknowns that were plucked out of obscurity by Robert Smeigel.

[55:21] Nik Walker: Oh, yeah.

[55:21] Michael Paul Smith: No, this is it is it is just ridiculous how much talent was on this show.

[55:26] Nik Walker: And now waiters who are nauseated by food.

[55:31] Michael Paul Smith: Good evening. My name is Roger. This is my back waiter Stuart, and we'll be serving you this evening. I had a bit that I would do literally I was a waiter for many years, and I literally would do this bit for the other waiters. Our soup today is a creamy fish chowder with chunks of potatoes, corn, and scallops.

[55:57] Nik Walker: And so that was my bit.

[55:58] Michael Paul Smith: Waiters were nauseated food. That's not complicated. Corell had a thing that he did totally independent. It was a podiatrist who was nauseated by feet. And there's so many factors that went into why it didn't even last eight episodes.

[56:12] Nik Walker: Now yeah, talk to talk to us about this because because what why didn't it?

[56:16] Michael Paul Smith: So, okay, so here's what happened. Dana Carvey was on SNL for eight years and just you know, dominated SNL. He was like the primary player on SNL from 86 to 92. And then he gets out, he does some stand-up, he does, you know, little guest guest spots. But as soon as he announced he was leaving SNL, I think it was 86 to 92, but this this uh Dana Carvey show came out in 96, so my years might be slightly off. But everyone wanted to know what he was gonna do. He had offers coming from everywhere, and what he chose to do was attempt to do sketch comedy in prime time with Robert Smeigel, who is he considers him the greatest sketch comedy writer he's ever worked with. Some people know him for Triumph uh the insult comic dog.

Um, and he has since gone back to SNL and he's just a just a great writer, and he's got one of those voices. He does, he does characters on Bob's Burgers. You might know him if you heard him. Um, but that's Robert Smigel. Anyway, um, gets him involved, and it's 96, 95 at the time, maybe, so they didn't have they didn't have like the the cable options and certainly no streaming options that you have now. Um they they turned down HBO because they wanted a bigger audience because it's you know Dana Carvey was such a big star. Comedy Central was just getting started, so they weren't really in the running. And the number one network at the time was ABC. And so they went with ABC, and ABC uh ABC promised them a home improvement lead in.

Home improvement was the biggest show in in the country at the time. And Robert Smeigel didn't know anything about home improvement. They just they just saw it as like, okay, great, we're gonna be on this this huge network. That's terrific. I had never watched home Improvement when I heard about the time slot. I thought, oh, well, maybe it'll be compatible because Tim Allen's kind of a man's man kind of guy, and uh seemed like maybe he's a hip comedian, he had been busted for cocaine or something. I don't know, is home improvement a little racy, maybe, right? And then while they're in production, Disney buys ABC.

[58:18] Michael Paul Smith: Oh, Jesus, no. They're putting and they're putting together this cast. All right, here's who's in the cast. First of all, Louis C.K. was their head writer. They also, and at 29 years old, they also had Charlie Kaufman as on the writing staff. They also had as their showrunner Robert Carlock, who has since won a ton of awards. And then they get Steve Carell, Stephen Colbert, and then some other great comedy actors, Bill Chuck, Bob Odenkirk.

[58:46] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[58:49] Michael Paul Smith: Was he involved in the writing staff?

[58:50] Nik Walker: He was. He was on the writing staff, dude. I'm looking at it right now.

[58:54] Michael Paul Smith: They didn't even talk to him.

[58:55] Nik Walker: Wow.

[58:56] Alex Smolowe: Dude, that's insane.

[58:58] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah, exactly. So it's like this who's who of talent that nobody had heard of yet.

[59:05] Nik Walker: Oh my god.

[59:06] Michael Paul Smith: And the eight episodes that they created were incredible. But Dana Carvey was just more interested in trying new things instead of just doing like the church lady.

[59:15] Nik Walker: So ABC promoted them as this like, hey, this is family-friendly stuff. This is, you know, Dana Carvey. And they just didn't consider that, you know, just because Home Improvement is high rated doesn't always mean it's the right lead-in for you.

[59:28] Alex Smolowe: Yeah.

[59:29] Michael Paul Smith: So the Home Improvement family audience was just not prepared for like edgy experimental sketch comedy.

[59:35] Nik Walker: Damn.

[59:36] Michael Paul Smith: And the first sketch, which Louis C.K. was not involved either for obvious reasons. This only came out a few years ago. In fact, anytime anybody mentioned him, they usually like took a breath. Like, and then, uh, and Louie was there.

[59:49] Nik Walker: Uh, damn.

[59:50] Michael Paul Smith: Damn. I'll just leave that as that. But he referred to their very first cold open sketch, episode one, as like a line in the sand sketch. It was Dana Carvey playing Bill Clinton, which probably could have been enough to please the masses. But they had Bill Clinton breastfeeding animals.

[1:00:07] Nik Walker: Oh my god.

[1:00:11] Michael Paul Smith: With a duck ass. And the whole country was furious about it. They got letters, the ratings plummeted right away. And over the course of the weeks, the more notes they got from the network, the more the writing staff dug in. And they started mocking the network.

[1:00:30] Alex Smolowe: Holy shit.

[1:00:34] Michael Paul Smith: So they created a character of like this network executive that mispronounces everyone's names and mispronounces Dana Carvey's name and stuff like that. And then they created a sketch within that sketch called the TV Watchers, where a family is watching TV and then they just push past them, and then it's like an episode of Seinfeld or like an episode of a popular show on another network. So you're like, you can watch all the popular shows, including the Super Bowl, right here on ABC.

[1:01:02] Nik Walker: Oh my god.

[1:01:03] Michael Paul Smith: But it was really just like a fuck you to these network executives that were like, can you tone it down? Because we're really like not getting this. So they had this very adversarial relationship with the people who controlled their fate, kind of from the get-go. And then the first reviews were horrible, but they got this cult following, and then some of the reviews went back and changed their minds, but it was just too late. They got cancelled after seven episodes. Their eighth episode never even aired.

[1:01:31] Alex Smolowe: And the eighth episode included what Robert Smigel refers to as the funniest sketch he's ever written.

[1:01:35] Michael Paul Smith: And it later aired when Dana Carvey posted SNL.

[1:01:40] Nik Walker: Yes.

[1:01:41] Michael Paul Smith: It's Tom Brokaw announcing.

[1:01:42] Nik Walker: Yeah, go ahead, Nick.

[1:01:43] Alex Smolowe: Sorry.

[1:01:43] Nik Walker: No, no.

[1:01:44] Michael Paul Smith: It is literally, I mean, please tell, but it's one of my favorite sketches that I've ever seen in my life.

[1:01:48] Alex Smolowe: Please, totally.

[1:01:49] Michael Paul Smith: Well, it's Tom Brokaw announcing that a pres that Gerald Ford was dead, and Gerald Ford at the time was not dead. Tragedy today is former president Gerald Ford was eaten by wolves.

[1:02:02] Nik Walker: It was delicious.

[1:02:07] Michael Paul Smith: Um, that's just superfluous. I mean, you know.

[1:02:11] Alex Smolowe: It's a former president, Tom. What are you saying? He's not delicious.

[1:02:14] Michael Paul Smith: All right.

[1:02:16] Nik Walker: So good.

[1:02:17] Michael Paul Smith: The other thing I'm seeing here is the ambiguously gay duo start on this show.

[1:02:21] Nik Walker: Started with the Dana Carvey show.

[1:02:23] Michael Paul Smith: And after it was canceled, it was kind of the only work that was there for Colbert and Carell, because those were the two, they were Ace and Gary.

[1:02:30] Alex Smolowe: Yeah.

[1:02:31] Nik Walker: Were they?

[1:02:32] Michael Paul Smith: I never didn't realize.

[1:02:33] Nik Walker: So they got to at least get a little bit of work in when Robert Smigel went back to SNL. He was like, I'm it was kind of a lifeline to them after the show was canceled, and before they got picked up by The Daily Show.

[1:02:43] Michael Paul Smith: Oh, I love it. I love it.

[1:02:44] Nik Walker: So it's just, it's just so funny listening to them reminisce about it. There's my favorite moment in the whole doc is they make each person separately. They're all interviewed separately, and they make them watch this promo. And first of all, it wasn't the Dana Carvey show. Dana Carvey, in a throwback to very, very early television, they had the sponsor pay extra to be part of the name of the show. So one week it was the Mountain Dew Dana Carvey show. And one week it was the Diet Mug Rootbeer Dana Carvey show. Kind of like college bowl games do now.

[1:03:19] Michael Paul Smith: But at the time, you know, back in the day it was like, you know, Flip Wilson and Abbott and Costello would be like the Chesterfield cigarettes presents Abbott and so you know, whatever. So they had each one of them separately watch this promo for the show. And it started with a promo for this special episode of Home Improvement.

[1:03:35] Nik Walker: ABC Tuesday.

[1:03:36] Michael Paul Smith: A parent's worst fear of losing a child.

[1:03:38] Alex Smolowe: I don't want to die.

[1:03:40] Michael Paul Smith: You never know who will happen to. An episode so powerful, it hits all fucking.

[1:03:45] Nik Walker: Beat this, eh?

[1:03:48] Michael Paul Smith: And the voiceover guy's like a special Home Improvement followed by the Diet Mug Rootbeer, Dana Carvey show. And you just see everyone hit just burst into these gales of laughter. And Dana Carvey's like, that pretty much sums it up. What were we doing? What were we?

[1:04:10] Alex Smolowe: But to me, it's so inspiring because it's like it shows you that art and life are not meritocracies. And that has to be okay because you have to be able to risk failure. You have to be able to try things.

[1:04:22] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah.

[1:04:22] Nik Walker: And now you can look back on it and be like, they did some great work.

[1:04:26] Michael Paul Smith: Well, and you, and especially because you look at, you know, there's the whole thing with Dana Carvey, you know, and Mike Myers and Mike Myers, you know, blowing up with Austin Powers off of something that ostensibly was Dana Carvey's, not the whole thing, but certainly the, you know, Doctor a lot of the Doctor Evil mannerisms, you know, being based off a Lorne. And that was very much, that was very much Dana Carvey's idea.

[1:04:49] Nik Walker: Apparently it was Dana Carvey's idea.

[1:04:51] Michael Paul Smith: Right. And so you look at this whole idea of, you know, this kind of very popular duo, one of whom just skyrocketed and the other of whom left SNL and never quite, at least in terms of our, you know, our capitalist mainstream idea of success, never quite found his footing afterwards. Even though he did, right? He was, you know, he was doing stand-up, he was doing his thing, you know, he had this show. I mean, like, so it's not like he didn't have an amazing and continue to have an amazing career, but we, it's just one of those things where you look at how many factors have to come into play in order for someone to be a quote unquote success. And like you said, this writing team and Dana Carvey, I mean, this is genius. These are literal geniuses. So for this not to work just gives you hope. Like, yeah, it's not about that. It really is about the endurance and about you just have to go for it. You have to go for it no matter what.

[1:05:53] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, exactly.

[1:05:54] Michael Paul Smith: And it's amazing the industry like how risk-averse it is. It's like, it's like, okay, this didn't work and then like you're right, like Dana Carvey went back to stand-up mostly instead of somebody being like, well, let's snap him up and give him another show. Like what are we doing? I mean really in every fac, I mean in movies and TV and everything, there's for every great thing, there's usually a story about how it almost didn't happen, how it could have been so different. The Galaxy Quest documentary that I added, it was all about that, about how it almost never happened because, you know, the studio intervenes and something happens, an actor drops out and something happens and some executive who's looking at it from a money perspective says, well, this isn't right.

Let's do it differently. And the creators push back, and the end result ends up being the product of a lot of collaboration with people who maybe shouldn't even be collaborating, making decisions they shouldn't make. But that's, and that's, it's, but this speaks to why we need good people on both sides of the camera and on both sides of the stage because you have to be that person who gives this, you know, gives the shot. You know, I mean, like it really, what we need are the people who recognize the art and who say, yeah, I'm gonna throw my money behind this.

[1:07:07] Nik Walker: I, you know, not to personalize this, but I had, you know, I met with an agent once who was talking about, you know, they were trying to get me to sign with their agency, and they were talking about how, you know, I asked them, like, yeah, what do you, what are you doing for, you know, inclusion and diversity right now and, and, you know, helping to kind of, you know, further, further, you know, the cause for those of us in the minority. And this agent's response to me was, well, you know, look, you know, black men are trending right now, we're following the trends, you know?

[1:07:47] Michael Paul Smith: And I literally was like, not good.

[1:07:51] Nik Walker: Talk about the wrong answer to that question.

[1:07:51] Michael Paul Smith: Fucking answer. Like, do you mean, and I say that it's not even, you know, be besides just the pure racism of that answer, it's just like, that's what we don't need. What we don't need is you following the trends. What we do need is you having an eye on the trends, but also knowing when somebody like Dana Carvey comes along, you don't just cancel Dana Carvey after one show. You look at it and you go, cool, what did we do wrong? Maybe leading in from Home Improvement, not the best idea. Where can we put him? Because he's Dana fucking Carvey. Do you know what I mean?

[1:08:21] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, yeah.

[1:08:24] Michael Paul Smith: People instead. I'm glad you brought up diversity because there that is one thing that this show in my mind would lose points for. There's no acknowledgement whatsoever in the doc, by the way, of the total, and I mean complete lack of diversity on the staff and the cast of the Dana Carvey show. I know it was '96, but like no excuse. And if they had anyone on the talk about that, like I guess like 50 years ago, is like, you know, '96, 15 years ago. There was no diversity.

[1:08:53] Nik Walker: Exactly.

[1:08:54] Michael Paul Smith: Like it's, yeah, like it's, you know, Dick Van Dyke or something. But, um, if there was a person of any color on the staff, they might have prevented them from making a sketch, which Stephen Colbert refers to as the most racist sketch ever committed to tape.

[1:09:08] Nik Walker: Oh my god.

[1:09:09] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah. And it is real bad. It's real bad. Stephen Colbert says it, he says it with a smile, but he's like, I play Gregory Peck. I just want to be clear. I just want to check that on record. But it's all about an awards show, maybe it's the Oscars, but it's they're announcing best foreign film, and every filmmaker jumps out of their seat as though they won, but they're really just listing the nominees. But every one of these filmmakers is played by one of the white cast members, and every character that they're playing is a total stereotype.

[1:09:37] Nik Walker: So it would have been career-endingly bad in anything close to the...

[1:09:43] Michael Paul Smith: I'm pretty sure that me and Alex have something like that in the vaults.

[1:09:47] Nik Walker: Oh, we've got a couple.

[1:09:48] Michael Paul Smith: I'm pretty sure we got one of those that if it ever found the... I think a good cop movie. You remember that?

[1:09:53] Nik Walker: There's a certain movie that should never get out of it.

[1:09:58] Michael Paul Smith: Oh man, I'm so glad that inside joke is gonna stay inside.

[1:10:01] Nik Walker: It's gonna stay inside.

[1:10:02] Michael Paul Smith: We're gonna tell it to you, Michael, after we get off the air, but I would love you to send it to me.

[1:10:06] Nik Walker: I mean, come on.

[1:10:07] Michael Paul Smith: Oh my god. Does it exist somewhere?

[1:10:09] Nik Walker: I think it does. Somebody must be... Somebody has it.

[1:10:10] Michael Paul Smith: And they can, they should never share it ever.

[1:10:13] Nik Walker: It was 1996.

[1:10:15] Michael Paul Smith: I don't know. I mean, my first improv group that I ever worked with, we started doing sketches, and we recorded a sketch. This probably won't make it in either, Alex, but it was meant to be a cold open for when we did a show at Gotham Comedy Club and we were gonna like go back and forth from taped sketches to live stuff, and it was just us in a car pretending to be drinking, and then it got more and more ridiculous like we're playing drinking games, we're hanging a dartboard from the rearview mirror, and then it ends with on-screen text that says, don't drink and drive, you just might have the time of your life.

[1:10:47] Nik Walker: Oh my god.

[1:10:48] Michael Paul Smith: So not a great message, not a good message, even if it's tongue in cheek.

[1:10:52] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[1:10:53] Michael Paul Smith: You just pretty funny.

[1:10:54] Nik Walker: Just don't do it.

[1:10:55] Michael Paul Smith: Yeah, yeah.

[1:10:56] Nik Walker: Yeah, there's some stuff. You just look back and you say, ooh, it didn't age well.

[1:10:58] Michael Paul Smith: It didn't age well, didn't age well.

[1:10:59] Nik Walker: You know, and that's how we handle it.

[1:11:01] Michael Paul Smith: That's how we handle it.

[1:11:03] Nik Walker: Too funny to fail.

[1:11:05] Michael Paul Smith: All right, I gotta check that out. I'm gonna watch it. I'm gonna watch it. I remember it just literally because I had to scrub through it and marking time codes and finding stuff, and I remember I've I think I've seen it all from that, but I've never just sat down and watched it.

[1:11:17] Nik Walker: I can't wait.

[1:11:17] Michael Paul Smith: I can't wait for you guys to see it. It's on Hulu. It's so fun to just watch, you know, Stephen Colbert and Steve Carell reminisce and talk about these where they came up with these bits like waiters nauseated by food and Germans who say nice things. I mean, it's incredible.

[1:11:34] Nik Walker: Gerald Ford was mauled senselessly by a circus lion in a convenience store.

[1:11:42] Michael Paul Smith: Good.

[1:11:42] Nik Walker: Yes.

[1:11:43] Michael Paul Smith: All right.

[1:11:44] Nik Walker: Gerald Ford is dead today, and I'm gay.

[1:11:48] Michael Paul Smith: Not now, wait a minute.

[1:11:50] Nik Walker: What?

[1:11:51] Michael Paul Smith: What?

[1:11:52] Nik Walker: That'd be a huge story.

[1:11:53] Michael Paul Smith: Ford dying and you coming out.

[1:11:55] Nik Walker: But I'm not gay.

[1:11:57] Michael Paul Smith: Today you're not gay, you know. Then one day you wake up, you like men, Gerald Ford dies, and we're screwed.

[1:12:02] Alex Smolowe: I love it.

[1:12:03] Michael Paul Smith: Well, dude, this has been nothing short of a pleasure and a privilege to have you on this show today. Um, you gotta come back. When this episode airs, pretty sure that your wonderful radio play will have just dropped. So why don't you one more time give them?

[1:12:21] Nik Walker: Yeah, give them the locales one more time. Just to make sure they're gonna.

[1:12:25] Michael Paul Smith: It comes out on December 14th. So if this airs by then, you can just pop right over to twasthenightplay.com or just find it in the Hamelcast feed. But you can find me on Twitter and Insta at MPsmithNYC. And you can find my sketch comedy podcast, which features Nik Walker, Ted and Michael read sketches into microphones wherever you get your podcasts, on Twitter at Ted and Michael or at TedandMichael.com.

[1:12:46] Nik Walker: Oh amazing. Amazing.

[1:12:48] Michael Paul Smith: So there you go.

[1:12:48] Nik Walker: I'm a preparer. I had all that written down.

[1:12:50] Michael Paul Smith: I'm not gonna lie.

[1:12:50] Nik Walker: That's what we love.

[1:12:54] Michael Paul Smith: You know why? I'm not even gonna try to make it sound like it's off the cuff. I'm reading it.

[1:12:57] Nik Walker: It's cool.

[1:12:59] Michael Paul Smith: Read it. Read it.

[1:13:00] Nik Walker: It's time. Read it.

[1:13:01] Michael Paul Smith: Um, but Michael, you are the best, my friend. Thank you for coming on. Uh Alex, I hope that your COVID fog brain lifts.

[1:13:10] Alex Smolowe: It will lift.

[1:13:12] Michael Paul Smith: And, uh, yeah.

[1:13:13] Nik Walker: It will lift.

[1:13:13] Michael Paul Smith: And for all the rest of you, uh, for Little Justice, my name is Alex Smolowe, and we'll catch you next time.

[1:13:19] Nik Walker: Fuck off.

[1:13:24] Michael Paul Smith: Little Justice.

[1:13:28] Nik Walker: Little Just dead.

[1:13:31] Michael Paul Smith: Little Justice.

[1:13:34] Nik Walker: Fuck yeah.