This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Alex Smolowe: Hey Nick.

[0:01] Nik Walker: Hey Alex.

[0:02] Alex Smolowe: I was trying to finish up my pizza before I spoke, but um yeah, no.

[0:06] Nik Walker: You just keep on eating. Nothing uh nothing new there.

[0:10] Alex Smolowe: You eating into your microphone, chewing in your microphone.

[0:12] Nik Walker: I'm used to it.

[0:14] Alex Smolowe: I do uh so so you know before we opened this we were just talking about how we need to switch up the cold opens.

[0:22] Nik Walker: We do, we just need some fresh material, I think.

[0:24] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, we've been getting into a little bit of it's kind of stale somebody who comes up with fresh material for a living. I was hoping maybe you could help us out.

[0:30] Nik Walker: I got fresh material for you.

[0:32] Alex Smolowe: Are you ready for this?

[0:35] Nik Walker: Mm-hmm.

[0:35] Alex Smolowe: Are you ready for this? Here we go.

[0:37] Nik Walker: Okay.

[0:38] Alex Smolowe: We're gonna do word association.

[0:40] Nik Walker: Okay.

[0:41] Alex Smolowe: I love it. I love it. I'm gonna say a word, and then you say the first word that comes to your head, and then I'll say the first word that comes to my head, and we'll just like see where this goes. You know what I mean? Like, let's be improv actors.

[0:53] Nik Walker: I hate improv actors.

[0:55] Alex Smolowe: So great. This is gonna go so well. Let's do it.

[0:57] Nik Walker: Okay.

[0:59] Alex Smolowe: Owl.

[1:01] Nik Walker: Tree.

[1:02] Alex Smolowe: Beer.

[1:03] Nik Walker: Uh oh wait, oh, I thought we were going back and forth.

[1:06] Alex Smolowe: Got Alex. Is it just me?

[1:07] Nik Walker: It's but it's we do it back and forth. So you're I failed to improv.

[1:10] Alex Smolowe: Look, I'm gonna tell you, I took I signed up for improv classes one time.

[1:14] Nik Walker: Yeah, and they kicked me out because I couldn't make it one day.

[1:21] Alex Smolowe: I was like, I was like, hey, like you guys have like 19 classes a week. Uh I booked a job or something like that, and I was like, can I just I know I signed up for the Sunday at two o'clock, but can I do the Monday at four o'clock? And they're like, no, like only the one you signed up for. I'm like, well, I can't do that anymore. They're like, okay, well, no refunds. And I never went back after one class.

[1:39] Nik Walker: Wow.

[1:39] Alex Smolowe: So I'm terrible at this game. So all right, let's start over. Let's start over.

[1:42] Nik Walker: Boat.

[1:46] Alex Smolowe: Murder.

[1:51] Nik Walker: Little Justice.

[1:54] Alex Smolowe: Little Justice.

[1:57] Nik Walker: Little Justice.

[2:00] Alex Smolowe: That's it.

[2:02] Nik Walker: That's it. Welcome.

[2:04] Alex Smolowe: Welcome, welcome to Little Justice.

[2:07] Nik Walker: Easy. Done. People say improv's hard, but I don't know.

[2:11] Alex Smolowe: That was so easy.

[2:12] Nik Walker: It's so easy, of course. I'm Nik Walker.

[2:15] Alex Smolowe: Uh who are you?

[2:16] Nik Walker: Alex Smolowe.

[2:17] Alex Smolowe: And today we have improvist.

[2:20] Nik Walker: Improv improv actor.

[2:21] Alex Smolowe: Improvis improvis so improvissimo. We'll ask you. We'll ask Jenny about it. We'll uh we'll ask her to tell us what the correct pronunciation is. But to the more importantly, today we have possibly the best guest we've ever had in our lives.

[2:33] Nik Walker: I would agree with that.

[2:34] Alex Smolowe: Yeah.

[2:34] Nik Walker: Yeah, yeah.

[2:35] Alex Smolowe: We've had some good ones on here. We've we've really run the gamut. Uh and we've had very but but rarely do we have somebody on who fills a deeper emotional hole.

[2:48] Nik Walker: You know really is you know somebody who walks in the room and you just know the world makes sense. You know, you know that everything just fits. Um you know, she isn't she is an actor, she is she is a a grad student at the is she an improvissimo?

[3:06] Alex Smolowe: Sarah, are you an improvissimo?

[3:08] Sarah Joyce: Not really.

[3:11] Alex Smolowe: It was really I I didn't mute my mic for that entire intro, and it was really, really hard to not laugh out.

[3:19] Nik Walker: My mouth has been over, like my mouth has been covered by my hands this entire time.

[3:26] Alex Smolowe: That's good. That's what we want. Do you see how I crack your wife up, Nick? Do you see how how much joy she gets from from me?

[3:30] Nik Walker: I don't see it.

[3:33] Alex Smolowe: You're just so funny, Alex. You're just you're really you really are an amazing improv actor.

[3:38] Nik Walker: Thank you so much. I don't know where it comes from. I don't know where my ideas come from, you know.

[3:42] Alex Smolowe: You know, I hate I hate getting that question. Where do your ideas come from? Because I don't know. I they come it's just it's unblocked inspiration from above.

[3:51] Nik Walker: I'll tell you where it comes from. It comes from the the racist backwoods of Pennsylvania. That's where it comes from, right there.

[3:56] Alex Smolowe: We're very cynical out there, yeah.

[4:00] Nik Walker: We're cynical people.

[4:02] Alex Smolowe: We're a cynical people, these backwoods Pennsylvanians.

[4:05] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[4:05] Alex Smolowe: But yeah, and yeah, pretty racist too. Sarah Joyce is our guest.

[4:10] Nik Walker: We haven't said fully who this is. This is my my my amazing, amazing uh uh uh wife, Sarah Joyce.

[4:17] Alex Smolowe: Um life partner. Welcome to the show, Sarah.

[4:19] Nik Walker: Welcome, welcome to Sarah. First official time. You've been here on and off like in unofficial capacities, but now you are in the hot seat. You're the guest.

[4:28] Sarah Joyce: Oh my oh my. I'm I'm a little I'm a little frightened and and grateful and and and worried and concerned and and joyful and the whole thing.

[4:39] Nik Walker: Just like our marriage.

[4:40] Sarah Joyce: Just just the same.

[4:44] Nik Walker: Just joyful and concerned.

[4:47] Sarah Joyce: So anxious, yeah, scared and and counting down.

[4:56] Nik Walker: Counting down the date. So how so you know, obviously, I mean, it's funny because so as we record this, right? Uh we are, you know, Sarah is literally in the living room uh next door. So like I can't see her, you know, as we record this. It's very it's very sad.

[5:10] Alex Smolowe: It's like, oh my god. I I want to point out, uh just to try to just to try to drive a little more division between you guys.

[5:16] Nik Walker: Yeah, yeah.

[5:17] Alex Smolowe: Um Nick, you have for this podcast, you you have a a nice professional microphone. You said I didn't know if this would be clear.

[5:24] Nik Walker: And and Sarah has been left with a headphone microphone. Sarah, if at any point you want to just come into this room. I'm not I'm not saying she needs to be in there with you, but if I was you, if I was a gentleman, uh or trying to be a gentleman, I would I would give her the good mic and I would, you know, bring myself down. But I I guess you're you think that you're more important.

[5:50] Nik Walker: That's not you see what's happening here?

[5:53] Alex Smolowe: I really appreciate that, Alex. And I'm I'm really grateful for that. I I need you need anything. Do you have everything you need? Like a glass of water or you know, get it for you.

[6:04] Sarah Joyce: I have the water bottle that I filled up myself. I have the blanket that I put on top of myself.

[6:09] Nik Walker: Oh, that sounds so comfy.

[6:10] Sarah Joyce: I have our cat that that's on my legs right now, so I can't really move.

[6:16] Nik Walker: Amazing.

[6:16] Sarah Joyce: And a husband who who just gives you the crumbs.

[6:19] Nik Walker: I get it.

[6:20] Sarah Joyce: Crumbs, nothing nothing but crumbs. Door is closed, nice microphone is hidden.

[6:27] Nik Walker: It's our marriage.

[6:29] Sarah Joyce: It's our marriage. This is this is a metaphor.

[6:32] Nik Walker: I'm so excited. This is gonna be a great episode. Um Sarah, Sarah is obviously in San Diego.

[6:39] Alex Smolowe: She is now as we record this on winter break from grad school. So the first question, of course, Sarah, is how has the first semester of grad school been?

[6:49] Sarah Joyce: How was this? This was an experience that for those of you who are joining us, uh, you know, coming from the Hamill cast, you had talked about auditioning for grad school, and then you got into, you know, a pretty amazing grad school.

[7:00] Nik Walker: Um, I I would dare say one of the, you know, I think what rated the the fourth, the fourth best rated grad school in the nation. Um it's pretty pretty amazing. Um, you know, so you you're you're doing this this incredible thing, and and now you are free at least for the next four weeks.

[7:17] Alex Smolowe: So how how was that first semester? How did that go?

[7:20] Sarah Joyce: Uh it was very very challenging. Um yeah the the schedule the schedule is wild it really really is because for a few years I was auditioning for programs uh and they're all very very hard to get into uh and then I got into uh the one that I really wanted to go to which is great and then I got here oh my goodness it's just I I I haven't I haven't read I haven't read this many plays in like a in like a two three month period and I think my eyes still hurt from from reading all the plays that I read but I'm it was I don't think I've ever been so exhausted but so happy before in my life.

[8:04] Nik Walker: So it's been this this is what this is what a lot of you know like new new new parents say uh you know after after they have a kid but this is this is what I'm saying about going to see because in my in my head the idea of going back to college is really appealing especially after a year of like isolation and quarantine like the thought of going back and being forced to like study a lot and learn new things and and get practice in without like you know where you're just focused on doing that one thing.

[8:41] Sarah Joyce: You know it really it really really is and it's it's interesting because at our age, like we're we're proper adults now. We're in our early 30s, and I I am so much more secure as a human being.

[8:55] Nik Walker: Um so being able to take in all of this information as a student, um there's so much more critical thinking. There's a completely different perspective I have now just as a student as opposed to you know when I was in conservatory in my early 20s and I was just a mess and just try trying to try to like do Chekhov and Shakespeare when I was an insecure, broke mess in my early 20s.

[9:27] Sarah Joyce: So it's what yeah. And what is it what has it been like with with COVID too?

[9:32] Nik Walker: Oh my god.

[9:33] Sarah Joyce: So it's it's it's been a blessing and a curse, to be honest with you. Uh during COVID, it it's it's such a blessing to be so focused on school right now because it's still happening. Granted, it's happening on Zoom, but ha having this extreme focus on something right now, uh especially on something that you love.

[9:58] Nik Walker: Um and you know, and you know, we get a the students get a stipend for being here, which is really, really fantastic. So if I wasn't in grad school right now, um I would just be unemployed during quarantine.

[10:14] Sarah Joyce: So that that would have been a really it it would have been a challenge. Let's let's just say that. So it it's been a blessing, but also the the the curse part of it is that you know it it is completely over Zoom.

[10:28] Nik Walker: So all of all of our scene work is happening through laptops, all of our classes, we're in our apartments, lobby Zoom.

[10:35] Sarah Joyce: Um it's funny because like you're you're doing you're doing work, uh you're doing acting for stage, but inevitably because you have to do all of your scene work over a camera, you're actually you're doing film.

[10:46] Nik Walker: So and it's it's so it's bizarre because we we did the Fall Shakes this year, the Fall Shakespeare show that's associated with the Globe was a Midsummer Night's Dream.

[10:58] Sarah Joyce: And you know, we all filmed it in our apartment. Um and it's it's just like they they dropped off a dropped off a professional camera. The sound crew gave us microphones.

[11:10] Nik Walker: They dropped off costumes.

[11:12] Sarah Joyce: I did my fitting via Zoom and then every day like I was called at like nine and depending on who I was playing I was playing Titania and Hippolyta.

[11:21] Nik Walker: So I either had to have all these cre I had to do my own like makeup, lighting it was it was utterly insane.

[11:29] Sarah Joyce: But it was also really cool because we got to learn about all of this stuff and you know now now we can set up lighting for auditions like like yeah it's like a a nice skill set.

[11:38] Nik Walker: Such a weird situation though.

[11:39] Sarah Joyce: It's so bizarre like I'm Twilight Zone.

[11:42] Nik Walker: I gotta j I gotta jump in your 'cause I will say as somebody who's who got whose head shit you're still here. It's just it's it's Alex he's just such a captivating person to talk to.

[11:58] Alex Smolowe: I mean I'm never not caught up in your energy.

[12:02] Sarah Joyce: I could vomit I could vomit on both of you.

[12:06] Alex Smolowe: Um no but I think that's one of the I think you know as somebody who's gotten to watch Sarah um do this I think that's one of the wonderful things has been kind of the the way that she's been able to um adapt to this new situation.

[12:19] Nik Walker: And you know it's it's especially for people who are studying theater and studying classical theater I mean like this is this is like literally could be one of the worst situations because like you can't you know you can't be in the same space that that is theater that is literally what theater is um and even I mean that's kind of what film is too but I what I've loved has been um you know watching watching kind of the malleability of of how Sarah you know if I'm if I may gush how you have approached your curriculum and how you've approached these classes and um it really has been I mean quite and just being being real just really inspiring to see you tackle this schooling.

[13:03] Nik Walker: And like the schooling is still hard. I mean these people are you know when I tell you that these people are working her um she you know she has class from 9 a.m to five and then usually has rehearsal from six to ten.

[13:17] Alex Smolowe: So and that's Monday sorry that's Tuesday through Saturday.

[13:22] Nik Walker: So it's I mean it's a full work schedule. I mean she's going and um but you you have you have done it and and you're continuing to do it and you have done it while at the same time finding time to maintain your sanity and your emotional health and your physical health and that is that is really really wonderful.

[13:41] Nik Walker: So I'm just very proud of you, very proud, very proud as your husband.

[13:49] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, you know, she's my wife, he's my wife, she's uh, she's the key to getting through stuff like this is to keep it new, right? Like you really wanna keep things fresh. Um, the key, key, key, uh, new and you've done it, so it's like you have pivoted so early.

[14:15] Nik Walker: So per so early and so poorly.

[14:17] Alex Smolowe: Early and poorly.

[14:18] Nik Walker: Well, this one.

[14:21] Alex Smolowe: No, fourteen, fourteen minutes is not too early.

[14:26] Nik Walker: I mean, not too early.

[14:28] Alex Smolowe: Because we need, we need a lot of pre before we get into selection, we need a lot of work.

[14:33] Nik Walker: We do need a lot of comments. We've gotten all the what's up with everybody's life out of the way. Like you already know this stuff about Sarah too. You're asking these questions like you're interested about finding out the answer, but you know.

[14:43] Alex Smolowe: Steve's next, you're acting right now.

[14:45] Nik Walker: You know, you're not acting.

[14:47] Alex Smolowe: I'm not acting, you know. You know, I consider myself a uh, a conduit for the people. I'm here to ask questions so that the people can gain further knowledge and insight into Sarah's life.

[14:57] Nik Walker: You're like a lawyer, you know. You're asking a question you don't know the answer to.

[15:00] Alex Smolowe: I am not an advocate for her. I am but a looking glass. Do you know what I mean? I am the very Keanu.

[15:10] Nik Walker: And so Keanu.

[15:12] Alex Smolowe: I'm lost.

[15:13] Nik Walker: I'm completely lost right now.

[15:16] Alex Smolowe: Just like our marriage.

[15:17] Nik Walker: Uh, and that's just like our couple therapist.

[15:23] Alex Smolowe: Just like an hour ever since every day. Um, Keanu is uh, so Alex attempted to do a uh pivot and it was terrible. But Keanu is the subject of today, which is why you're here because when I told Sarah that Keanu was happening, it was kind of like, like we knew we kind of wanted to bring Sarah on, and then when I told her, it was kind of like, yeah, I Sarah has, Sarah's gonna have a lot to say about this, the Keanu movie. Like, what is your connection? Can you just break down, Sarah, just a little bit of your connection to Mr. Reeves and his work? Because I feel like you actually, this is a very deep subject for you.

[16:10] Sarah Joyce: Listen, okay. I have been a lifelong Keanu Reeves fan, even through all of the mockery and the hazing and all of this other nonsense. Ever since I was a child, I have always been a Keanu Reeves fan. I would have been, I was like nine years old defending this man's work to the masses. Um, I can get into it now. Like, like, uh, you know, my background on Keanu Reeves. First of all, he's a very talented comedian. Second of all, when he was what, like fucking 22 years old, when he was really, really young, Fox was just like, hey, you, we're gonna put you in this movie. We're gonna ask you to lead this film for our studio. I know we're in a kind of a different time now, but in like the early 90s, how many people in their early 20s could have done that? I mean, have I done that? Have you done that? That is a hard thing to accomplish. You know?

[17:15] Nik Walker: Yep.

[17:16] Sarah Joyce: Um, and I think a lot of people who comment on maybe, you know, his quote unquote really chill energy that translates into stupidity, I really don't think that they're well versed in his entire body of work and how he actually does have some freaking talent. You know, and it's just, uh, yeah, it goes deep, Sam. It goes deep.

[17:43] Nik Walker: So the, I'm glad that you brought this up because this is something, you know, I watched, uh, you know, uh, again at the time of this recording in the past couple of weeks, a video game is called out called Cyberpunk 2077. Um, which, uh, if you haven't, I, I'm not a, I don't play video games, but I do play video games, yeah.

[17:59] Sarah Joyce: But you watch.

[18:01] Nik Walker: I watch video games. I love, I will fall asleep to a good cutscene compilation. And so I have watched all eight hours of cutscenes from Cyberpunk.

[18:09] Sarah Joyce: See, it's probably for the best.

[18:09] Nik Walker: So I'm in the middle of playing it, but it is, it is a buggy mess. They released it way too early. So it's probably better to just watch all of the cutscenes. Sarah, have you heard of this video game?

[18:19] Sarah Joyce: Not really.

[18:20] Nik Walker: So, so this video game is like a, I mean, it's cyberpunk, it's like a, you know, first person, um, crazy. It's like a will the world of William Gibson, basically, and like neuromance, or like it's all people and, and the matrix. I mean, it, it kind of fits with Keanu because of that. It's, it's digital, uh, uh, what would you call it? Like, uh, I mean cyberpunk, like literally cyberpunk world where people are kind of half in digital future.

[18:46] Sarah Joyce: Yeah, people are kind of half, half machine, half man.

[18:50] Nik Walker: But, but, but Keanu Reeves is the star of this video game. Um, he is, he is a character named Johnny.

[18:55] Sarah Joyce: Oh my god.

[18:59] Nik Walker: Silver hand, thank you. And, uh, it's, he, he like is your, your spirit guy is the best way to say. He's basically like he plays this, this like bioterrorist who g who dies but his consciousness is transplanted. He's a rock star who like decides to go blow up a building one night after his concert, and like he gets his, he's like a bad guy and he gets his consciousness transplanted onto a little chip that then the actual main character of the game, like fifty or sixty years later ends up having to like, you know, whatever, put it in his own head and then so this guy basically just has Keanu Reeves in his head for the whole game making like every time you go to a mission or something, he just like pops up and he makes some snarky comment about it because he's kind of like an asshole and sitting there like the devil on your shoulder, just like talking to you the entire time.

And it's like imagine if you had that in your life. Like if any decision you made, Keanu Reeves popped up like sitting on a table nearby and just made some comment about it, like some past stupid people, I would actually be a very happy person, right?

[20:06] Sarah Joyce: You need to watch some of these cutscenes here because you will laugh your ass off. They're like truly ridiculous with him. Like he's like, he's got like, he's like in his full like John Wick hairstyle, you know, like the lightly bearded, like fully full long flowing hair, but like also in like this like tank top and like tat it up and like these tight cargo pants, and it's just, he just looks good. It's insane.

[20:30] Nik Walker: Um, but so good. But yeah, it's so it's, but, but I, I say this because um, the reason I'm glad, you know, circling back to the original point of this, I'm glad that you brought this up because so one of the th, one of the many benefits of being married to Sarah is her introducing me to several worlds of film, right? I, I consider myself a lover of movies, but I, you know, when I started this marriage, admittedly, had a very, very, very specific era. I would say it was from 1993 to nineteen ninety three and had to do with Jurassic War. And Sarah, Sarah's very much expanded that, and one of the things she's expanded has been showing me that Keanu Reeves has range, and, and like kind of, and kind of very much advocating that and that that is something that um, I have really loved opening up to.

Um, you know, so I mean it's, it I put to your point Sarah I think, I think that that is something that we kind of have associated with him is like this, this kid who's can't act and you know got into the movie business but it was, it was, it was a bit of a, a smear like you said a smear campaign. Like it was, I mean let's, let's break it down a little bit about about what is the Keanu fact like what is it that people see on the surface of Keanu like what is a Keanu Reeves movie what is a Keanu Reeves performance because it goes deeper when we did Nicolas Cage it was kind of the same thing. It's like you, you shoehorn him into this idea of who he is but, but there's actually a lot more but like who, who is it yeah that people see?

[21:51] Sarah Joyce: I think that shoehorned idea of who Keanu Reeves is, it, it I think it really does get its inception from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.

[22:12] Nik Walker: Yeah, I think that's where I think that's where Fox once we start talking about kind of how Fox put him in career jail for a minute, um, I think they kind of pulled from that but I think he did get a reputation and he got a bit of um, you know he was typecast at that kind of like whoa kind of dumb energy and that, that kind of and he's played a few characters like that. It was um, in Parenthood he got cast as that even after you know the sequel of Bill and Ted. I, I think it's, I think that's where the inception is. Right.

[22:49] Sarah Joyce: And it kind of runs through, it kind of runs through more stuff because you move into movies like Point Break, uh, stuff like that, where like he, it's a more serious like he has a more serious profession. He's got a bigger world than just being like a dopey stoner. Uh, but he still carries that like how much is really going on behind those eyes, Keanu. Like how much is it, how much is really going on behind those eyes.

[23:18] Nik Walker: You good, you good Keanu?

[23:20] Sarah Joyce: You good?

[23:22] Nik Walker: You good? Like the, but that's the question, right? Because he, he, it seems like either there it's in one ear and out the other and he's just happy to be there or he's really processing it and just not projecting it in a normal way. You never know.

[23:33] Sarah Joyce: I, I think in Point Break it he, he was playing an FBI agent and I think with, with FBI agents you have to be clean, crisp, you know, to the point. Right. Uh, you have to follow the rules you really, really do and you have to kind of blend in and be that person that people don't really notice. And I think, I think he, you know, brought that into his performance. But then he developed a very deep and beautiful friendship.

[24:01] Nik Walker: You know, let me, okay let me Sarah let me, let me ask you this because this is, we, we actually had this this brief talk a couple of days ago about not a couple it was like a couple weeks ago I think about Johnny Depp. Um, maybe it was about maybe a couple months ago oh my god I forget um but you remember the talk we were having this was like last week last week here you go um guys I, I just started you know like it's crazy I'm trying to figure it out I'm trying to remember details dates you know I mean it's like memento over here uh but you know, we're this was last week. This is last week. Listen, it's 2020. All the weeks blend together. We don't know where we are. We don't we don't even know if we're gonna survive.

We're just making it day by day. Uh thank you for being a friend. Um, you know, it's, it's uh Johnny Depp, the Johnny Depp uh, you know, quandary, uh conundrum, the idea that this is, you know, actors who have training, right? Actors who have that specificity of thought in their line in their delivery, um, you know, people who are able to bring um something that that seems crafted to a performance. And, and the and the and and then the actors who are more their personality, right? They're just kind of showing up, and nothing like uh there's no judgment in any of this. This does not make you less of an actor. But there's the, you know, then there's the actors who who show up and and kind of have that personality and um just just appear on screen and that's what you get, and that's and that's what it is.

And then there's the actors who can kind of do a blend of both. Like we'd said that Rachel Weisz is um, you know, her one of her gifts is that she is a clearly an actor of craft, but is also it, it's just so natural, right? She has probably done pages and pages of work um on every character she plays, but you, you would never feel that she is acting something. It is always just grounded and central in her and never feels forced in any sort of way, as opposed to uh, you know, as much as I love Daniel Day Lewis, Daniel Day Lewis is coming in to act. Do you know what I mean? Like you're seeing this man act, and, and there's not, there is that kind of performance quality to it. And so where do you, my question to you, Sarah is where do you feel Keanu falls in that kind of spectrum?

Um, you know, is he do is it do you, I mean, not without you know, knowing his preparation, or maybe you do, what do you feel that he's more of a craft actor? Do you feel he's more a personality? Do you feel he's more craft that ends up feeling like personality? Like what, what do you feel that is? What's your gut?

[26:35] Sarah Joyce: I, I think that's a good question. And we um, we were, we were talking about I think the conversation we had was kind of comparing Johnny Depp's work as a car, like like Johnny Depp's work to kind of Brad, Brad Pitt's work or even Leonardo DiCaprio's work when we were having this conversation.

[27:03] Sarah Joyce: Whereas Rachel Vice's work, I wouldn't necessarily call her a character actor I wouldn't say that she completely disappears and blends. She always brings something that's quintessentially her. And what is quintessentially Rachel Weiss is just there's always a grounded intelligence but it doesn't it doesn't even matter who she plays. Like be it Evelyn Carnahan and the mummy or even that fucking Jack Black movie where he made that like who's prey do you remember that?

[27:32] Alex Smolowe: Yes.

[27:32] Sarah Joyce: Yes she played his wife in that movie it was a whole thing.

[27:38] Alex Smolowe: Weird.

[27:38] Sarah Joyce: Yeah it was a whole thing. But in terms of where Keanu Reeves kind of kind of falls on that spectrum, I feel that he's more of an uh he goes by feeling he's more of just an instinctual feeling actor. Uh you know Johnny Depp isn't isn't formally trained and I d I don't believe Keanu Reeves is either um I think a lot of the actors who kind of came out of that era, I think the film industry was just trying to capture straight up essence. You know what I'm saying? Um but yeah, I I I think a George Michael music video. Just the essence.

[28:11] Alex Smolowe: Yes, Mrs. George.

[28:15] Sarah Joyce: I I made Nick uh watch some George Michael music videos the other night. Um, just randomly like, hey Nick, get over here, you gotta see this.

[28:15] Alex Smolowe: George Michael music videos.

[28:27] Sarah Joyce: It was like three George Michael music videos. I forget I forget what started it. It was it was I think we were singing Freedom, and then you're like, Oh, I want to see this one.

[28:37] Alex Smolowe: Well, we we were watching Always Sunny Bloopers, and I was like, oh, now I want to watch the freedom music music video from when they didn't.

[28:44] Sarah Joyce: Of course, this is your guy's life is just sitting around watching always sunny blooper together.

[28:49] Alex Smolowe: That's really all we do. Transitioning to George Michael music videos.

[28:53] Sarah Joyce: Accurate. And then talk and then talking about the mummy. Like, yes. Um, but to to get back to your question, I I wouldn't necessarily say he's a character actor.

[29:08] Alex Smolowe: No, no, he I don't believe Keanu Reeves is that.

[29:12] Sarah Joyce: But there he he does have range. Like if you if you compare his performance from one of my favorite comedic performances from Keanu Reeves, is his work in the movie I Love You to Death. He plays this drugged out punk of a guy um who's he shares all of his themes with William Hurt and he plays like this hired hitman, but he is so incredibly funny in this movie. If you compare that role to his role in Constantine, they're so there it's it's like it's like night and day, it's very, very different. Um, but I wouldn't say he completely transforms. He he does have a proper energy that he brings to every single character. Uh I think I think there there's an there's an ease maybe a bit of an aloofness, but there's definitely there's definitely an ease there that I that I personally love.

You know and can I say can I say this and this is the other thing that you just that that you just made me think of. I will say Keanu I feel like without knowing again without knowing him without ever having been on set with this man and watching his process I feel like this is someone who has picked up tricks of the trade as he's gone along because the Keanu that we're seeing now he's like just his just in general how he uses a camera is incredibly different from the Keanu that you there is a reason he has lasted this long and there is a reason why he is still on top.

[30:53] Alex Smolowe: Yeah. Do you do you think when he gets selected for a role and and a you know from a director do you think that he gets chosen more specifically now? Because like early in the 90s he's like a a pretty boy young actor and they're sticking him in whatever blockbuster they they have whether he fits or not he's just you know a big actor they're gonna make him a big actor now he is Keanu Reeves. He's got such a history and such a persona do you think that the stuff that he does is a lot more selective of Keanu Reeves almost like Tailored to him specifically maybe that's why he's you know yeah I think that's a really good question. When when Nick and I were watching the John Wick movies, we were kind of talking about how those films really really play to his strengths.

You know he's such a physical actor. He can move really well. He can do all these things. But something that Nick said that did make me kind of just like that did that did kind of spark the Keanu Reeves debate we had in our relationship was like, you know, I really Nick said that he thought that the people who created John Wick played his strength by giving him very few lines. And I was like, what are you talking about? He has a range. He has to arrange when you think.

[32:14] Sarah Joyce: Yeah, he does. And Sarah and you showed me you showed me a movie, and I don't want to just in case it's your choice. I don't want to, I don't want to get into that movie. Is that movie your choice? That's is that the movie that I think John Wick?

[32:26] Alex Smolowe: No, no, no. The movie that we watched in response to my comment.

[32:29] Sarah Joyce: Oh no, no, I don't I don't think that's I don't think that's my choice. But Alex, to answer your question, you know, I I I do think I I do think at this point in Keanu Reeves's career, I think I because he has such a because he's worked with so many different people, I think they know who they're hiring, I think they know what they can get. But they I I do think they're also intelligent because they know he can be very serious, they know he can be incredibly funny and very, very charming. Um yeah, I think they know what they're working with.

[33:04] Alex Smolowe: Yeah. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. Interesting. Keanu. He's he's he is he's really done so much stuff. I'm like thinking just thinking about all the different stuff that he's done.

[33:16] Sarah Joyce: Absolutely. Absolutely. So before before we get into, well, first of all, uh, you know, we need to, as always, take a commercial break or just a break, because you know, maybe when you're listening to it, there's not a commercial yet. Sometimes it'll never know. We'll never know. We just we just know that we need to break and then we'll come back. Um, but when we come back, uh, you know, we'll get into our movie choices. So, like, we'll see you on the flip. Uh, you know, enjoy our ad revenue, you sons of bitches.

[33:46] Alex Smolowe: And we're back. See how quick that was? It was so quick. It was amazing. Edit point. Um, but but this is uh so before we get into the movie choices, I wanted to ask about this because um this is something that I think we sometimes run into on the show. Are we picking the quintessential Keanu Reeves movie or our favorite Keanu Reeves moving?

[34:08] Sarah Joyce: Well, I think especially because we've got three of them. Uh, you know, I I like to in this situation pick one that's not maybe not the best, or not even the quintessential, but has an interesting talking point to it.

[34:22] Alex Smolowe: Yes.

[34:22] Sarah Joyce: Uh I think between the three of us, we will land on the best. The most Keanu Reeves movie.

[34:30] Alex Smolowe: Yeah. Yeah.

[34:32] Sarah Joyce: Uh and if not, I there there's no way that we're not gonna like we're gonna talk about uh we already have talked about so many of his other yeah, his other works. Right? There's so many options. Um Sarah, what do you think?

[34:46] Alex Smolowe: Oh yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

[34:48] Sarah Joyce: I I okay. I know you asked, you know, to to keep to to make some choices. And whenever I whenever you ask me to like make some choices, I I'm not sure if I can. But I I I I think I have one or two choices, and then I have just a few honorable mentions.

[35:07] Alex Smolowe: We love that.

[35:08] Sarah Joyce: That's gonna be really fun.

[35:09] Alex Smolowe: Well, I mean, you you will go you will go last as you are a guest of honor. So we we will save yours for the for the last bit. Um if you're just joining us for the first time, which you know, maybe you are like welcome. Um how we do this is we you know, we set this up, uh, you know, we we we describe the first you know 30 seconds to five minutes of the movie until uh another one of our intrepid travelers guesses what the movie is. You I think we'll all be able to guess these movies pretty quickly. I'm assuming that we will all guess each other's movies very quickly. I'm also wondering, Alex, if you and I might have chosen the same one. I know that we've talked about several Keanu Reeves movies uh throughout the course of this show, and I think there's one or two that get kicked around a little more.

[35:58] Alex Smolowe: Yeah.

[35:59] Sarah Joyce: And I'm that I chose one of those. So uh we may have. We may have. And it's a weird choice because it's not it's not quintessential Keanu, but I think in turn if we're talking about his range, I think it's a a revelation of of his potential. Uh well, I I'll you know what, then I'll go first because mine is quintessential Keanu. Mine is like quintessential Keanu in a movie that quintessential Keanu potentially does not belong in whatsoever.

[36:26] Alex Smolowe: Uh don't don't don't like like don't let him do that in this movie.

[36:31] Sarah Joyce: Or don't or please or please help him like like you know, please find something different. I mean though, and I think that's kind of the whole my my perspective on the whole movie is like do something different, and not just with Keanu. I think I think this movie in general is just like good lord. So you guys are gonna get this right away. Cause we open with flames.

[36:55] Alex Smolowe: Devil's advocate.

[37:00] Sarah Joyce: Ah Let me tell you guys. That was that was mine. I love it. I love that we went to the same room.

[37:09] Alex Smolowe: I knew we would. Because it's so wrong.

[37:13] Sarah Joyce: I'm sorry I didn't. Please.

[37:15] Alex Smolowe: Kevin Lomax. John Milton. Nice to meet you.

[37:19] Sarah Joyce: So we've been treating you well.

[37:23] Alex Smolowe: Very well.

[37:24] Sarah Joyce: Thank you. And your wife. She had a good time.

[37:27] Alex Smolowe: She sure has. It's been great.

[37:29] Sarah Joyce: The whole thing's been great.

[37:33] Alex Smolowe: That's our secret. Kill you with kindness.

[37:37] Sarah Joyce: This movie. It's got everything. Guys, it's got oh, it's got every can I tell you really quickly. I just want to tell you what my experience with the movie was. So in 1996, my mother and stepfather got a divorce. And it was it was a bad divorce. It was very painful for my family. And you know, we won't talk about that part. What we will talk about was the next year was very much a year of me and my mother like bonding as a unit. And um, so part of that was movies. We went to see every movie we could together, and that like we movies were very much our how we bond. Because we and part of part of that too is like we're you know, Sarah can attend this is not a movie that you see with your mom. How old are you? Why was it 11 year old? Why was 11 years old?

[38:26] Sarah Joyce: So here's here's exactly what happens. So my mother, you know, we're we're bringing, you know, she brings me to these movies because Sarah can attest to, like, me and my mom also like not the most talkative people often. Like, as much as I'm talkative on this show, like, we like, especially like if we're recovering from something, if whatever, we're very much people who like to just kind of zone out and like be in our own spots. And so the movies are perfect for that. So she just knew, all she knew about this movie was that Al Pacino was in it. It was about lawyers. It looked really interesting. She was at that point, like starting to dabble in um, you know, in looking at like maybe a career transition into the church.

So like it was like, oh, the devil's advocate. Oh, that's interesting. Y'all, I sat down at the circle cinema right outside of Boston College, uh, in the movie theater with my mother, and we sat down to this film. Um the first sex scene, gratuitous sex scene, is within 20 minutes of the opening. Do you mean I mean the first scene in itself is is is is uh incredible. Is Keanu Reeves, you know, destroying the character of this poor young child in Gainesville, Florida. Have other teachers ever asked you to stay after class? Once or twice. Did they want to talk to you about your behavior? Objection and material goes to motive. Overall. You may answer the question. Well, I don't know what the other teachers wanted.

You'd have to talk to them. You ever pass notes in class, Barbara? Um, you know, uh is a case he's he's he's a lawyer defending uh, you know, a client against a charge of child molestation. And um, you know, you have this the first person you see in the movie is this poor young girl on the witness stand who's clearly been molested by this guy. Um, and he, like the guy's clearly guilty, and yet Keanu Reeves launches into this tirade blaming her for her own sexual abuse.

[40:38] Sarah Joyce: Right and hear about Mr. Geddes, aren't you? It was meant to be a joke. Have you ever had a party at your house, Barbara, when your parents were away? Your Honor, this is way out of credibility and bias.

[40:53] Nik Walker: Overrule. Answer the question.

[40:58] Sarah Joyce: Yes. Have you ever heard of a game called Special Places? You're under oath, Barbara. A man's career, his reputation, his life is on the line. This is not a joke. Have you ever played the game Special Places?

[41:25] Nik Walker: That is the first thing. That is the starting point of this film. Is a schoolchild blamed for their own molestation? And it only goes uphill from there. It sets up the question: Am I a bad person?

[41:42] Sarah Joyce: Yes. I'm gonna tell you, let's take an entire two and a half hour film to find out.

[41:54] Sarah Joyce: Everything that is done in this movie is, and so let's talk about the Keanu of it all, guys, because that's I think where why I chose this. And Alex, I want to hear what you think about this too. His accent.

[42:08] Alex Smolowe: Oh, we gotta talk about his accent.

[42:11] Sarah Joyce: First, the Keanu accent. There have been several fantastic examples of Keanu accent throughout movies. Oh my god, definitely one of them. His accent in Bram Stoker's Dracula. Listen, it was a bit of a shame, especially because his mom is actually English. But like, come on, we gotta give him a pass for that. The making of that movie was apparently very tumultuous and odd.

[42:37] Alex Smolowe: Oh, I'm sure. I've heard that.

[42:39] Sarah Joyce: And his performance is notoriously Keanu. I mean, that Bram Stoker is definitely one of the ones that set him up for like, oh, maybe he is just Keanu. Maybe the range isn't really there. But like if you're, you know, because I, Sarah, well, Sarah, you know a lot about Bram Stoker's. Talk to us about what that rehearsal process was like because they almost rehearsed it like a play, didn't they?

[43:01] Sarah Joyce: They did. So Francis Ford Coppola got the rights to this movie, and he brought all of the actors to some cabin. I think it was in England, or maybe in the English countryside. He got all of the actors to pay and rehearse in this cabin, and they played endless theater games and like improvisational games and things like that. And a lot of these actors in this movie are just straight up like LA film actors.

[43:31] Alex Smolowe: Oh, yeah. I'm sure Gary Oldman loved it, and then everyone else is just like, what are you doing?

[43:35] Sarah Joyce: Oh, yeah. Gary Oldman, Carrie Elwes, and Anthony Hopkins were just like, yeah, this is what you do. I love this. But like the guy who played the Rocketeer, who also played Quincy in Bram Stoker's Dracula, he's a Campbell, by the way.

[43:35] Alex Smolowe: Campbell's a Naomi Campbell and Christian Campbell's older brother.

[43:54] Sarah Joyce: I always forget his name.

[43:56] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, that's yeah. Hold on my right now. Nev Campbell. We were watching Matthew and George Michael, so I'm thinking Naomi Campbell for a second.

[43:57] Sarah Joyce: I didn't know that.

[43:57] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, hang on. Sibling Rocketeer. I'm gonna find this guy because I know this because, yep, it's, it's, fuck, it's, you're bad at Google, man.

[43:57] Sarah Joyce: No, I'm wrong. You know what? I'm wrong. I wasn't gonna say anything, but I was like, I don't think that's true.

[43:57] Alex Smolowe: He looks, you know what? He looks like Christian, but he looks like Christian Campbell. That's why I'm, that's why I'm, they could be kin.

[44:44] Sarah Joyce: They really could be. But yeah, this actor in the making of documentary, he's like, he's just chiseled-faced, very LA, hasn't been a day either in his life, and he was just like, we were playing all these weird theater games, and it was just really bizarre. But like there are certain shots of how Francis Ford Coppola had Keanu Reeves kind of go outside in nature and read Shakespearean poetry out loud because Keanu Reeves like he loved Shakespeare, and like you see a lot of scenes of Keanu Reeves outside reading Shakespeare and practice, and you know, he did his work.

[44:44] Alex Smolowe: He did his work, guys. I just want to jump in there really quick. The actor's name is Bill Campbell.

[45:32] Sarah Joyce: So I'm not completely off. He is a Campbell. He's just not from the Campbell dynasty.

[45:39] Alex Smolowe: Campbell dynasty. But yes, you know.

[45:42] Sarah Joyce: Good to know. I'm not completely stupid.

[45:44] Alex Smolowe: No.

[45:47] Sarah Joyce: But yeah, I, you know, it, it, it, with this, I just, you know, your character is from Gainesville, Florida. Now, granted, Charlize Theron not helping you out. Do you know what I mean? Like she's not coming in with a consistent accent either. But it was just with Keanu, it was just so much. Maybe because he is a lawyer in this movie, maybe because he spends so much time, you know, expositing, talking, you know, and it's a very verbose character. You just, it just, it's like nails on a chalkboard. It just hits you. It hits you hard. It hits you fast.

[46:29] Alex Smolowe: Well, I think, I think, I mean, Keanu's placement in the Hollywood scene is a little like his character here, right? He seems like a good down-home southern boy, right? Raised by a ma in, you know, small town, just a nice plain dude, which he is in this movie, except that he's like the best lawyer ever. And not only in town, but ever, and getting recruited, and so you get this fish out of water sense, right? He goes to New York and he can handle it, right? It's not about he's in out of his depth or anything like that, but like who he is as a person, you kind of stick with this idea that he's got good down-home roots, right? He's a mama's boy and he's, and nothing about the script, the character in the script really says that. It's really, it really is in the casting of Keanu Reeves that that stays believable. That there's a, there's despite everything he's agreeing to and the situations he's in, you still like him.

[47:26] Sarah Joyce: Yeah, you do like him, right? You know that there's an innocence in there, there's a resistance to this evil. So the evil is personified by an actor named Al Pacino.

[47:41] Alex Smolowe: Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. And while you're jumping from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughing his sick fucking ass off. He's a tight ass, he's a sadist, he's an absentee landlord. Worship that never. Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven, is that it?

[48:10] Sarah Joyce: Why not? You can take every single sex scene out of that movie. You can remove Charlize Theron's fucking like, and Al Pacino's performance would still make this film the most vulgar thing you have ever seen in your life.

[48:29] Alex Smolowe: All I wanted, and I never realized I wanted this until I watched it recently. I wish that they had taken that last part of that last act, the big 20-minute sequence between Al Pacino and Keanu Reeves, where it's all just unbroken, you know, forever. They're just talking to each other and the scene's evolving. If that had just been the whole movie, right? In a giant office at the top of a building, and the devil is trying to recruit you and just do the whole movie like that.

[49:00] Sarah Joyce: Alex.

[49:01] Alex Smolowe: I mean, let the two actors, like that, that would have been awesome. Like, you don't need the rest of the movie. It doesn't even make sense. Like, you have to know, because the movie's called The Devil's Advocate, that he's the devil going into it, or else the first half of the movie doesn't make any sense. And when it comes out that he's actually like a supernatural being, it comes out of nowhere, and it doesn't relate to anything. And like it did, like the whole movie leads up to, it's like it just to pay off this one big scene at the end.

[49:29] Sarah Joyce: I just need to jump in there. I need to say this. I called dibs on writing that play.

[49:34] Alex Smolowe: Absolutely. 100%.

[49:36] Sarah Joyce: Yeah, that's a Mike Walker play right there.

[49:38] Alex Smolowe: It's, that's fucking brilliant. I would love to see that. Oh my god.

[49:43] Sarah Joyce: Right? I would die.

[49:45] Alex Smolowe: But what you gotta cut is the Connie Nielsen sex scene in that. You gotta cut that way out. That thing comes out of nowhere.

[49:57] Sarah Joyce: Well, it's not really a sex scene. Are you talking like at the end when she's like—

[50:00] Alex Smolowe: Yes, when he like plays her on the bell on the desk, like they don't actually have sex though.

[50:07] Sarah Joyce: They start to, and then he turns into the—

[50:11] Alex Smolowe: It's a trick.

[50:12] Sarah Joyce: Oh my god, he's tricking the devil.

[50:15] Alex Smolowe: I hate that scene. Why does Al Pacino keep getting hired to play such stereotypical Jewish characters?

[50:26] Sarah Joyce: It's his yell, it's his scream, it's that girl. You're an absentee landlord! What is going on in the Mercury of Venice? And then in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, this is an Italian man. So hiring him to, like, I just, I'm not even Jewish, and I find it very offensive.

[50:49] Alex Smolowe: It's pretty incredible that he has been hired to play several years.

[50:54] Sarah Joyce: These guys are good.

[50:58] Alex Smolowe: Like he's just so crazy.

[51:00] Sarah Joyce: It's amazing. I mean, I will say though, Al Pacino's performance is absolutely the most vulgar thing. Second place only to Delroy Lindo's uncredited performance as the goddamn witch doctor. Do we remember this? Where he's like in the basement, like cutting chicken heads and like speaking gibberish.

[51:22] Alex Smolowe: It is if you don't, if you, it's just too much. It's so way too much. Whole movie's way too much. And again, it doesn't make any, it doesn't make any sense because the movie doesn't even start playing with like biblical nods and stuff like that until a while into it. When it's supposed to be, right, the premise of the movie being he's going to work for like this law firm that only defends guilty people, which is a cool concept, right? And it's run by the devil. Like as an elevator pitch, that's fucking amazing. As a movie, you don't know any of that until you're almost done the movie.

[52:00] Sarah Joyce: Yeah.

[52:01] Alex Smolowe: And sort of throw random voodoo stuff in and like it just comes out of nowhere.

[52:05] Sarah Joyce: Oh my god, it was so, and then Jeffrey Jones pre-scandal is in there, you know, pre-his—

[52:11] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, but I mean so in terms of Keanu in this, and we don't need to spend too much more time on it, but I think it really shows because he does have range here, right? And he's wild-eyed and a little bit, you know, pretty boy hollow, but he's also got passion about stuff, and you see in his face he doesn't know what to do, right? I feel like that's what really what an actor needs to be able to portray is conflict, inner conflict.

[52:13] Sarah Joyce: He does.

[52:48] Alex Smolowe: Which he does.

[52:50] Sarah Joyce: I will say though, I think that what I love about this movie, I think that, okay, looking at his performance in The Matrix, right? This, I think that Matrix doesn't happen without this movie. And I'll tell you why, because I think Constantine does either. I don't think—

[53:08] Alex Smolowe: Well, and here's the thing. He, you know, this movie comes at the point in his career where, you know, every leading person actor gets this in their career when they are paired up with the heavy, right? It's like the younger, the younger up and coming. It's, you know, Michael B. Jordan had it with Creed and Sylvester Stallone. Like you pair the younger one up with the older one, and like they have like a, it's like them going head to head, and it's very exciting for the audience to see like the new generation and the older generation bat it out, you know. And this is his first foray into that. He, you know, Al Pacino runs away with this movie, and there's no way that any actor can wrangle it back. But this, I think that dealing with this, you know, what amazing preparation for when you truly are the centrifuge of your own film being The Matrix, right?

[54:03] Nik Walker: Where it's truly the Keanu show and the universe spins around him.

[54:10] Sarah Joyce: Um, and the one thing I will say about that performance is watch it again. Matrix, he is grounded.

[54:15] Nik Walker: Like I gotta say, as for all of his like, I know Kung Fu, like that shit, like it is actually a really grounded performance.

[54:26] Sarah Joyce: Like that's the only way I can describe it. Like you're like, yeah, I follow you, exactly like we're saying, he is that average Joe who just happens to look like a Greek god.

[54:35] Nik Walker: Um, you know, but we want to follow him, and it works.

[54:39] Sarah Joyce: And I think that whatever, you know, kind of ill fit that this movie may have had, you know, I wonder if it prepared him for the Matrix, because that was a different actor to me in the, you know, two years later, a completely different actor.

[54:55] Nik Walker: Only two years?

[54:56] Sarah Joyce: Yeah, Matrix is 99.

[54:59] Nik Walker: Yeah, and this was 97.

[55:02] Sarah Joyce: So interesting.

[55:03] Nik Walker: Yeah, yeah.

[55:04] Sarah Joyce: Well, I would not disagree with that.

[55:05] Nik Walker: So Devil's Advocate.

[55:08] Sarah Joyce: I love it.

[55:08] Nik Walker: It's just and it's a pretty bad movie, too.

[55:10] Sarah Joyce: Oh, it's terrible.

[55:11] Nik Walker: Yeah, go watch it.

[55:14] Sarah Joyce: Is there some pitch, all this?

[55:17] Nik Walker: You must need me pretty bad.

[55:19] Sarah Joyce: What do you want?

[55:22] Nik Walker: Well, Eddie was right. I want you to take over the firm.

[55:28] Sarah Joyce: You and your sister.

[55:35] Nik Walker: Is that it?

[55:37] Sarah Joyce: No.

[55:39] Nik Walker: She's ovulating right now.

[55:43] Sarah Joyce: What?

[55:44] Nik Walker: Your vanity is justified, Kevin.

[55:50] Sarah Joyce: Your seed is the key to a new future.

[55:54] Nik Walker: Your son is gonna sit at the head of all tables, my boy.

[55:58] Sarah Joyce: He's gonna set this whole thing free.

[56:02] Nik Walker: You want a chuck.

[56:04] Sarah Joyce: I want a family.

[56:07] Nik Walker: The anti-Christ.

[56:13] Sarah Joyce: Whatever.

[56:14] Nik Walker: Drunken Waffle.

[56:16] Sarah Joyce: So Sarah.

[56:16] Nik Walker: So Sarah, yeah, cue us up.

[56:18] Sarah Joyce: Let us, you know, tell us, you know, describe your movie to us, and let's see if we can guess it.

[56:24] Nik Walker: Um, you know, by how you describe this movie.

[56:28] Sarah Joyce: Now, which movie are which choice are we talking about right now?

[56:30] Nik Walker: Please forgive me.

[56:32] Sarah Joyce: So it's I'm a wonderful wife.

[56:34] Nik Walker: I'm a great partner.

[56:35] Sarah Joyce: GIF you are.

[56:36] Nik Walker: You are giving you a lot of people.

[56:37] Sarah Joyce: What are we talking about?

[56:38] Nik Walker: Give us give us like your prime Keanu.

[56:42] Sarah Joyce: Like when you think of the Keanu movie, the Keanu movie that gives you the most joy.

[56:47] Nik Walker: What is that movie?

[56:48] Sarah Joyce: Just describe the opening of that film, and then we can talk about the honorable mentions and the ones that are like right below there, or maybe like right on par with that.

[56:58] Nik Walker: But like, what is it?

[56:59] Sarah Joyce: So not my favorite Keanu Reeves performance, but like the quintessential quote unquote Keanu essence.

[57:08] Nik Walker: Based on all the stuff we've talked about today, where like, yeah, what is the Keanu movie for you?

[57:17] Sarah Joyce: Yeah.

[57:17] Nik Walker: What is the Keanu movie?

[57:20] Sarah Joyce: Oh.

[57:23] Sarah Joyce: I can't choose.

[57:25] Sarah Joyce: I have it down to two, but I'll which one do you think we would want to talk about more?

[57:32] Nik Walker: I'm not even sure if you've seen this, but I okay.

[57:35] Sarah Joyce: So I think I know what it is.

[57:39] Nik Walker: Um, I kind of gave it away already, but the movie starts with like a xylophone type of situation.

[57:55] Sarah Joyce: Um, very festive music, and you see images of pizza going across the screen.

[58:06] Nik Walker: Jesus Christ.

[58:07] Sarah Joyce: A pizza?

[58:08] Nik Walker: Nope, not what I thought.

[58:12] Sarah Joyce: Sarah, you got it.

[58:13] Sarah Joyce: And then and then you see a very tan Kevin Klein floating with a sea of women.

[58:22] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[58:23] Sarah Joyce: Um, and you see the fabulous Tracy Ullman and River Phoenix have banter.

[58:30] Nik Walker: The movie is the m, uh, you tell us the title, because it's I mean the movie is of course I love you to death.

[58:43] Sarah Joyce: No, my cousin Marlon.

[58:45] Nik Walker: Of course I do.

[58:47] Sarah Joyce: How are you, Marlon?

[58:50] Nik Walker: I have to do that.

[58:51] Sarah Joyce: What do you have?

[58:53] Nik Walker: This is actually my favorite Keanu Reeves performance.

[58:57] Sarah Joyce: It also does kind of align with what I think the quintessential Keanu what even other people would think of the Keanu Reeves essence.

[59:08] Nik Walker: Again, a huge reason why I'm such a fan of Keanu Reeves is he has more range than most people think.

[59:16] Sarah Joyce: If we're gonna waste the dude, we oughta get paid for it, man.

[59:23] Nik Walker: That's the American way, right?

[59:27] Sarah Joyce: Yeah.

[59:29] Nik Walker: Yeah, I mean, we're not communists here, you know.

[59:32] Sarah Joyce: We're Americans, we gotta write to make a living.

[59:35] Nik Walker: He's again, he has very good comedic timing.

[59:39] Sarah Joyce: He's hilarious.

[59:40] Nik Walker: Like there's Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure where he's just doing comedy.

[59:45] Sarah Joyce: But this movie in particular, he's acting opposite William Hurt most of the time, and they are just being utter clowns, but it truly is some hilarious work.

[59:57] Nik Walker: Um, and you know, if we're gonna talk a little bit about his range, it's just like he in every single performance that he has, he always subtly inserts comedy, he subtly inserts romance, like he is the rom-com, he's done romantic tragedy, and he always does squeeze in a little bit of leading man energy.

[1:00:23] Sarah Joyce: But regardless, it's I love you to death.

[1:00:25] Nik Walker: It's just let me jump in on this for a second.

[1:00:29] Sarah Joyce: Let me jump in.

[1:00:30] Nik Walker: I've never even heard of this movie.

[1:00:31] Sarah Joyce: You shouldn't watch it.

[1:00:32] Nik Walker: I mean, it's very it's like it's like straight up great, but it's like it's like yeah, it's like an early nineties like black comedy.

[1:00:39] Sarah Joyce: Yeah.

[1:00:40] Nik Walker: But this is I just want to this is something that I just want to be clear about with Sarah's choices of film and Sarah what Sarah looks for.

[1:00:49] Sarah Joyce: Cause it's something that is very unique, I think, to you, Sarah, where you, it's hard to describe.

[1:00:57] Nik Walker: Correct me if I'm wrong.

[1:00:58] Sarah Joyce: I think that one thing that you really love in a performance are idiosyncrasies.

[1:01:04] Nik Walker: Do you know what I mean?

[1:01:05] Sarah Joyce: Like I feel like one thing that makes you laugh or like it's almost because the things that make you laugh sometimes are things that I don't even know if they are like just watching them, I don't know if they are intentional on the actor's part.

[1:01:19] Nik Walker: Like I don't know if, do you know what I mean?

[1:01:21] Sarah Joyce: Like because they're just, they're like these behavioral things that happen that like maybe are studied things, but they're just so natural sometimes that I don't know if they are.

[1:01:32] Nik Walker: And like it's very much like just like I've just noticed that that is something that you love is and find hilarious, or like the little idiosyncrasies of people.

[1:01:43] Sarah Joyce: So like it's not even like there are lines in this movie, like the experience of watching this movie with Sarah, there are lines that are very funny, like that truly to truly land.

[1:01:51] Nik Walker: And Sarah will laugh at some of those lines, but it's more like the awkward looks that like William Hurt and Keanu Reeves share, Sarah just can't like will go into peals of laughter for like five, ten minutes about like these little idiosyncrasies.

[1:02:07] Sarah Joyce: And I think that that is correct.

[1:02:09] Nik Walker: Am I correct in saying that?

[1:02:10] Sarah Joyce: Like that is something that is in this movie.

[1:02:13] Nik Walker: That is something that I do love in a lot of things.

[1:02:16] Sarah Joyce: In this particular performance, I think there might be less idiosyncrasies that you think I laugh at than you might think.

[1:02:23] Nik Walker: Um, because these two comedic performances are very, very choreographed, very, very clean, very, very funny.

[1:02:31] Sarah Joyce: Um, I think it's less, I think it's less improvisational.

[1:02:35] Nik Walker: Um, and like I think there was less room for those wild natural moments.

[1:02:39] Sarah Joyce: I do laugh at Joan, um, Joan Quellright.

[1:02:43] Nik Walker: I think that's her name, her little moments and River Phoenix's little like idiosyncrasies in this film, but Keanu Reeves, that's a clean performance.

[1:02:51] Sarah Joyce: It's a clean, hilarious, consistent comedic performance.

[1:02:57] Nik Walker: You should get a taxi.

[1:03:00] Sarah Joyce: How could you do that?

[1:03:01] Nik Walker: What's wrong with that?

[1:03:02] Sarah Joyce: You came here to kill Joey.

[1:03:04] Nik Walker: So what?

[1:03:05] Sarah Joyce: Also, it's generally not considered a very good idea to take a taxi to the scene of a crime.

[1:03:10] Nik Walker: Hey man, look, be cool, okay?

[1:03:14] Sarah Joyce: I mean, you know, the dude's only a taxi driver.

[1:03:19] Nik Walker: So could you set up the plot?

[1:03:21] Sarah Joyce: Set up the plot of this movie for us.

[1:03:22] Nik Walker: So then I want to know what's it about.

[1:03:24] Sarah Joyce: So it's kind of based on true events, but um, Kevin Klein plays an Italian immigrant.

[1:03:32] Nik Walker: He lives, I forget, I think they're in California.

[1:03:36] Sarah Joyce: Um, but he owns a pizza place.

[1:03:39] Nik Walker: He is married to Tracy Ullman's character who's doing a flawless American accent.

[1:03:44] Sarah Joyce: Um, Kevin Klein cheats on his wife like crazy, and she has no idea.

[1:03:53] Nik Walker: But like River Phoenix plays her friend who's low-key in love with her, and he's like, you don't see that your husband is cheating on her, and the amazing Joan Flower, I think that's her name plays from her mother.

[1:04:04] Sarah Joyce: Um, Tracy Ullman tries to kill Kevin Klein, um, because she feels utterly made a fool of.

[1:04:14] Nik Walker: Um, so she tries to kill him a couple of times with the help of her mom and River Phoenix's character.

[1:04:18] Sarah Joyce: It doesn't work.

[1:04:19] Nik Walker: And then um, and then they end up hiring these two ridiculous clowns to kill Kevin Klein.

[1:04:28] Sarah Joyce: Who are Keanu and Hurt?

[1:04:29] Nik Walker: Who are Keanu Reeves and William Hurt, and they're just utter messes.

[1:04:33] Sarah Joyce: And they end up shooting him in the head and like in the heart.

[1:04:38] Nik Walker: But it takes forever because they're so stoned.

[1:04:44] Sarah Joyce: Um, and like Kevin Klein doesn't die.

[1:04:47] Nik Walker: It's like this whole thing.

[1:04:49] Sarah Joyce: It's a ridiculous film, but it's amazing.

[1:04:51] Nik Walker: I recommend people watch it.

[1:04:53] Sarah Joyce: And it makes sense to me that you would be drawn to a movie about a woman trying to kill her husband.

[1:04:58] Nik Walker: Something about that, Alex, just works.

[1:05:00] Sarah Joyce: I've been having this conversation for the past two days.

[1:05:04] Nik Walker: Everybody thinks I'm gonna kill Nik.

[1:05:06] Sarah Joyce: Literally, everybody I know thinks I'm going to murder my husband one day.

[1:05:11] Nik Walker: Like they think in reality, it's gonna be me because you've asked me to do it for you.

[1:05:16] Sarah Joyce: Yeah, I mean, someone else is gonna take the ball.

[1:05:17] Nik Walker: I was gonna, yeah, you know, no one will think of you.

[1:05:20] Sarah Joyce: We'll live happily.

[1:05:22] Nik Walker: You heard your first light.

[1:05:25] Sarah Joyce: If Nik ends up dead, you know why.

[1:05:25] Nik Walker: The extent to which I would botch that be like the lady killers of Tom Hanks.

[1:05:35] Sarah Joyce: He was bludgeoned 17 times and he's like burned somehow on his leg.

[1:05:40] Nik Walker: Like, what happened here?

[1:05:41] Sarah Joyce: I don't know.

[1:05:43] Nik Walker: But that's, I mean, that's the boat involved.

[1:05:43] Sarah Joyce: Sarah, isn't that the part that is true that they like actually did shoot this man in the head and he did survive?

[1:05:49] Sarah Joyce: Yeah, because um, in one of the previous assassination attempts, um, Tracy Ullman and her and her mom in the movie put a whole bunch of sleeping pills into spaghetti sauce.

[1:06:00] Nik Walker: So he eats all the spaghetti with sleeping pills in it, it slows down the bleeding, and that's why he doesn't die from the gunshot to the head and the gunshot to the chest.

[1:06:11] Sarah Joyce: Oh my god.

[1:06:13] Nik Walker: It's so ridiculous, it's just so ridiculous.

[1:06:16] Sarah Joyce: But I do understand.

[1:06:18] Nik Walker: I do understand what you're talking about, and it's, you know, yeah, watch it.

[1:06:22] Sarah Joyce: I'd be very interested to see what you think, Alex.

[1:06:24] Nik Walker: Like it, you know, it's a very, I mean, it's it so Eminem is not super into like really violent or gory.

[1:06:31] Sarah Joyce: It's not zero.

[1:06:32] Nik Walker: No, I would not anything like that.

[1:06:34] Sarah Joyce: No, no, not at all.

[1:06:36] Nik Walker: It's a very light kind of dark comedy.

[1:06:41] Sarah Joyce: School.

[1:06:43] Nik Walker: What?

[1:06:43] Sarah Joyce: School, man, you know.

[1:06:45] Nik Walker: Pledge allegiance.

[1:06:47] Sarah Joyce: Oh yeah.

[1:06:49] Nik Walker: And over your heart.

[1:06:50] Sarah Joyce: Yeah, red.

[1:06:53] Nik Walker: Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

[1:07:04] Nik Walker: Spacious skies and amber waves of grain.

[1:07:16] Sarah Joyce: Harlan.

[1:07:17] Nik Walker: What?

[1:07:17] Sarah Joyce: I can't watch this, man.

[1:07:21] Nik Walker: But if I may, just so I don't go too on.

[1:07:33] Sarah Joyce: But I just have some quick honorable mentions. Um, Keanu Reeves's work in My Own Private Idaho and his work in The Gift. These are two really, really surprising. Um, it's with Kate, I yeah, I think Katie Holmes. I'm gonna look it up so we can make sure we know. We already, we already, I already fought animal. So was it, um, but anyway, it's with Kate Blanchett plays this kind of fortune teller woman and yes. Yeah, who's from the South, and I think, you know, I think Keanu Reeves plays Katie Holmes's husband. Yeah.

[1:08:14] Nik Walker: It's directed by Sam Raimi, Jesus.

[1:08:17] Sarah Joyce: Yeah. Yeah, and yeah, it's good. I think I remember Katie Holmes for different reasons.

[1:08:23] Nik Walker: Oh, Jesus Christ.

[1:08:25] Sarah Joyce: Is there like a nude scene?

[1:08:27] Nik Walker: Yeah, I think so.

[1:08:28] Sarah Joyce: God damn it, Alex. Well, maybe don't. Maybe go back to, it was like, it was like P, it was like just post Dawson's Creek. I was like 11. Of course I'm gonna remember that.

[1:08:41] Nik Walker: Um, sorry, I'm a terrible person.

[1:08:43] Sarah Joyce: Yes, you are. But anyway, so in The Gift, Keanu Reeves plays a wife-beating, very violent, bigoted husband. Uh, and this is a performance that I don't think people would realize is in his wheelhouse, and he does a good job. And again, his work in My Own Private Idaho, it's very, very nuanced.

[1:09:06] Nik Walker: Yeah, it's very, very nuanced and quiet, but there is a lot going on behind his eyes, and the relationship between him and Little in that movie is truly, truly beautiful.

[1:09:15] Sarah Joyce: Um, I really encourage people to see both of those movies before they're just like, this guy can't act, and he's only, he's just only incredibly one note. Just like, no, he's really not. Like not a lot of people can do what he's done in his career.

[1:09:31] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[1:09:31] Sarah Joyce: Nik, can I ask you this? When, um, when Keanu was on the ground and could not fire at Bodie, and instead chose to fire into the air, you know, screaming.

[1:09:46] Nik Walker: Um, Bodie, of course, played by the late great Patrick Swayze. What was behind his eyes then?

[1:09:50] Sarah Joyce: His eyes were squeezed shut because he was screaming.

[1:09:52] Nik Walker: He was screaming.

[1:09:57] Sarah Joyce: He was screaming.

[1:09:59] Nik Walker: His eyes were squeezed shut very tight.

[1:10:02] Sarah Joyce: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's what was going on behind his eyes.

[1:10:07] Nik Walker: He was heartbroken.

[1:10:09] Sarah Joyce: He didn't want to hurt his friend.

[1:10:11] Nik Walker: A great ass.

[1:10:16] Sarah Joyce: Now, if you want a nice, uh, early Keanu, like I think this is pre-Bill and Ted. This is probably why they gave him Bill and Ted. Uh, he played the older sibling's boyfriend in Babes in Toyland.

[1:10:34] Nik Walker: Wait, have you ever seen Babes in Toyland with little Drew Barrymore?

[1:10:39] Sarah Joyce: We're talking like E.T. Drew Barrymore in Babes in Toyland, uh, where he like they're all in the car singing like C I N C I singing about Cincinnati in the car in a snowstorm. It's like a very wholesome kids' movie.

[1:10:52] Nik Walker: And then he's like the prince who like whatever.

[1:10:55] Sarah Joyce: Uh, it's like a Wizard of Oz, you know, dream sequence kind of movie. Um, and he is so positive.

[1:11:01] Nik Walker: He's so because usually Keanu's got that like there's like a darkness around it, right? There's like a fog of anxiety that goes into what he's doing.

[1:11:11] Sarah Joyce: Um, and this movie is just so wholesome. And Keanu is so because it's a kid's movie, so it's way over the top. His emotions go over the top, and you could tell he's probably high the whole time. It it's phenomenal.

[1:11:23] Nik Walker: It's a phenomenal fun movie.

[1:11:25] Sarah Joyce: As I remember it from, you know, being very little and having it on VHS, but uh yeah, Babes in Toyland. Watch it.

[1:11:32] Nik Walker: Oh my god, I haven't seen that in so long.

[1:11:35] Sarah Joyce: He does bring a certain innocence to especially when he was younger. I think that's why he got, I think that's why he was so good in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, because these were two people who you knew wouldn't hurt a fly.

[1:11:48] Nik Walker: But I think that's also why he got cast in in Gangers Liaison.

[1:11:52] Sarah Joyce: That's the character that he did get cast as. He was the one who set the plot to right, so to speak.

[1:11:58] Nik Walker: He was the moral one.

[1:11:59] Sarah Joyce: Uh, and that was for Bill and Ted as well.

[1:12:02] Nik Walker: Um, it's all because of Babes in Toyland.

[1:12:04] Sarah Joyce: It all goes back to Babes in Toyland.

[1:12:08] Nik Walker: I will say a lot of it. One of the things I do love about Keanu Reeves, um, is, you know, I love that, you know, especially in today's day and age where it's like so many actors, I think, fall into this trap of, you know, putting themselves out there in a way where it's, you know, you have just as much of a social, you know, gossip presence as you do an acting career.

[1:12:31] Sarah Joyce: Um, Keanu has never quite, at least as much as I've seen, especially like in this later, you know, half of his career, has never qu—oh my, my headphone just fell out.

[1:12:44] Nik Walker: Good job, asshole.

[1:12:45] Sarah Joyce: Thanks, baby. Love you. God's never, he's never quite fallen into that.

[1:12:51] Nik Walker: And he's always been, um, you know, he is, he is famous for donating to several charities.

[1:12:57] Sarah Joyce: Um, I know, uh, his sister had a battle with leukemia and he founded a cancer foundation. He also, he builds motorcycles, um, you know, he volunteers at charities.

[1:13:08] Nik Walker: Um, he's had his fair share of tragedy in his life.

[1:13:12] Sarah Joyce: Oh yeah, he, he's, you know, he's been through a lot and it's, he's a gen, he just seems like a genuine guy.

[1:13:20] Nik Walker: He's always here.

[1:13:20] Sarah Joyce: I, the one that I love hearing about is, is he was on a flight that got brought down because of snow or something like that early. They had to land early, and it was like an hour from their destination, and so he hired a bus to drive everybody on the flight the rest of the way.

[1:13:38] Nik Walker: Oh, it was like a commercial flight, and to get everybody there, he paid to have buses take everybody the rest of the way.

[1:13:45] Sarah Joyce: Well, and he's like, he, I mean, and he, that's kind of how I'm looking at this quote here talking about how he views money and he says he, he's been quoted as saying money is the last thing I think about. I could live on what I've already made for the next few centuries.

[1:13:58] Nik Walker: So he just gives it, he understands that this is, you know, it is like, it almost seems like he just believes that when you get this, you give it back, you give it to people and you help people, and that is something that very, you know, is a very rare thing sadly.

[1:14:15] Sarah Joyce: You know, so I just love that that is, uh, that is who he is and, and, uh, I, you know, don't know him from Adam, but he just seems, Keanu, you seem like an awesome freaking person, so thank you for everything you do out there, man, you're cool, you're cool.

[1:14:15] Nik Walker: I saw him once in real life, it was pretty, it was, I had a, I had a really intense fangirl moment. Me and him both saw the same closing performance of The Seagull, Kristen Scott Thomas, uh, Zoe Kazan, um, I, I, uh, Peter Sarsgaard I think was in it as well. Um, the last performance was a Sunday matinee and I remember I was in line, I asked the guy in front of me, I was just like, is this the right line for ticket holders? And it was Paul Dano, his girlfriend was playing Moss, and he's like, oh yeah, I think so. I was like, oh my god, thank you so much, thanks Paul Dano, thank you so much, Paul Dano.

[1:15:16] Sarah Joyce: And then all of a sudden I hear the most intense cough I've heard in my whole life, it was like, it was like, and like I look to my left and I see Keanu Reeves just like kind of power walking to the door.

[1:15:37] Nik Walker: He looked very put together, but he has a really, really bad cough.

[1:15:43] Sarah Joyce: And I think he might have been like limping a little bit.

[1:15:45] Nik Walker: I don't think he was feeling that well that he had like, he was seeing this performance. He was like in the, he was in the either the first or the second row.

[1:15:56] Sarah Joyce: And I remember just, um, at the top of the show, but especially during, uh, intermission, loads of people came up to him to like talk to him or get his autograph.

[1:16:06] Nik Walker: And that doesn't usually happen very often when you see actors like just in the audience at New York Theater. Usually people leave them alone.

[1:16:13] Sarah Joyce: But he was very gracious and very kind, and I remember him giving each person like a lot of genuine time and attention.

[1:16:19] Nik Walker: And I was just like, man, yeah.

[1:16:21] Sarah Joyce: I hope, I hope your cough improves, Mr. Reeves.

[1:16:24] Nik Walker: I love, I love when people do that.

[1:16:26] Sarah Joyce: It was, you know who, you know who did that that I was actually like, and I shouldn't have been shocked, because this I've actually heard this several times. Um, uh, Zach Efron.

[1:16:35] Nik Walker: Oh yeah, yeah.

[1:16:38] Sarah Joyce: He, he came backstage at Hamilton and he was like true. I mean, I didn't meet him, but I like, I, I just saw him like he, I was going out, he was coming in. He was like, hey man, that was great. That was so, and like truly was like going up to people and like talking to them and asking them questions and like truly just like, I just love that.

[1:16:56] Nik Walker: I love when somebody is that big and can still be genuine.

[1:16:59] Sarah Joyce: That just makes me up.

[1:17:01] Nik Walker: A friend of mine is a producer on his recent show.

[1:17:05] Sarah Joyce: Uh, somebody like, like Zach Efron trying to kill Zach, try to kill Zach Efron.

[1:17:09] Nik Walker: So he was a producer on that.

[1:17:11] Sarah Joyce: So he was telling me how they were in Southeast Asia somewhere, and they actually had to, um, they had to fly him back to the States.

[1:17:17] Nik Walker: Like he literally almost died doing it.

[1:17:19] Sarah Joyce: Like he had a medical helicopter fly him back to the United States in an emergency.

[1:17:24] Nik Walker: It was pretty, pretty nuts.

[1:17:26] Sarah Joyce: Yeah.

[1:17:27] Nik Walker: But he's, but it, you know, I asked him a little bit about it about Efron.

[1:17:30] Sarah Joyce: He said, yeah, he's just like the nicest dude ever.

[1:17:33] Nik Walker: That's awesome.

[1:17:36] Sarah Joyce: Because some celebrities, Nik, are dick holes.

[1:17:39] Nik Walker: Just big dick holes.

[1:17:41] Sarah Joyce: I mean.

[1:17:42] Nik Walker: So tell me if you find one, man.

[1:17:44] Sarah Joyce: You hate to see it.

[1:17:45] Nik Walker: You hate to see it.

[1:17:46] Sarah Joyce: You hate to see him go that way.

[1:17:47] Nik Walker: But, uh, you know, some of us are just not celebrities.

[1:17:51] Sarah Joyce: We're just guys out here in the world, you know, trying to make it, trying to make it work day by day.

[1:17:58] Nik Walker: Thank you for being a friend.

[1:17:59] Sarah Joyce: Uh, anyway.

[1:18:02] Nik Walker: You know what I mean?

[1:18:03] Sarah Joyce: Uh, Sarah, you are a gem and a light in this universe.

[1:18:09] Nik Walker: Um, why do you keep saying thank you for being a friend?

[1:18:12] Sarah Joyce: Because it just reminds me.

[1:18:14] Nik Walker: Is this a thing?

[1:18:15] Sarah Joyce: Is this like a, is it a thing of yours?

[1:18:18] Nik Walker: Like you just, you always go back to the Golden Girls when you're hosting this particular podcast.

[1:18:22] Sarah Joyce: I just, thank you for being a friend.

[1:18:25] Nik Walker: I, you know, I, I think I am in a Golden Girls mood today.

[1:18:28] Sarah Joyce: Okay.

[1:18:29] Nik Walker: I don't know what that's about.

[1:18:30] Sarah Joyce: But I'll just, Star Wars Holiday Special.

[1:18:33] Nik Walker: I forced you to watch the Star Wars Holiday Special the other day, and Beatrice Arthur has a song in it.

[1:18:39] Sarah Joyce: Starring Beatrice Arthur.

[1:18:41] Nik Walker: Harvey Collins.

[1:18:44] Sarah Joyce: Jefferson Airplane.

[1:18:50] Nik Walker: And really I'm introducing Boba Fett.

[1:18:51] Sarah Joyce: So really quick, man. So I assume you guys caught up on Mandalorian.

[1:18:55] Nik Walker: Oh.

[1:18:58] Sarah Joyce: That's just really like the whole thing that Disney has set out now.

[1:19:02] Nik Walker: So I, I don't want to give any spoilers because it's still, it's still.

[1:19:05] Sarah Joyce: No, fuck that. We gotta say, we gotta say this.

[1:19:08] Nik Walker: Alright, turn it off now if you haven't watched the last episode.

[1:19:11] Sarah Joyce: I want to ask you your opinion, Alex. I know what, I know what me and Sarah have been talking about.

[1:19:15] Nik Walker: So here's our question.

[1:19:17] Sarah Joyce: Yeah.

[1:19:17] Nik Walker: Do you think that season three is just Boba Fett?

[1:19:22] Sarah Joyce: Or no, no. Did you see the, did you see the post credit sequence?

[1:19:26] Nik Walker: Did you see it?

[1:19:27] Sarah Joyce: Yes, but that's what we're wondering.

[1:19:29] Nik Walker: No, it's his own, it's his own show.

[1:19:31] Sarah Joyce: So Boba Fett is gonna be its own show.

[1:19:35] Nik Walker: So is my understanding of what it is.

[1:19:38] Sarah Joyce: They wouldn't just, they wouldn't just not have Mandalorian season three.

[1:19:41] Nik Walker: See? That's what you think, but I'm also because I mean Disney just, they just came out with this whole slate of shows, right?

[1:19:47] Sarah Joyce: Like they just announced 18 different Marvel and Star Wars TV shows.

[1:19:51] Nik Walker: Uh, I think Boba Fett's one of them.

[1:19:54] Sarah Joyce: My concern with this is that Boba Fett is now an old fat man.

[1:20:01] Nik Walker: Stop it.

[1:20:03] Sarah Joyce: Like this is not, this is not the cool gangster bounty hunter from the 70s, uh, who was gonna, you could believe would roll around and be a badass.

[1:20:13] Nik Walker: This is somebody who doesn't fit in the suit anymore, who also has shown you that he's a good guy, right?

[1:20:19] Sarah Joyce: Right? He has taken off his helmet and proved that he's actually a genuine human being with emotions and is a person and not just a walking suit of bounty hunter armor, uh, which is what Boba Fett was up until a couple episodes of Mandalorian ago, um, when they kind of reintroduced him, or like they all of a sudden they just added this depth that he had never had before.

[1:20:41] Nik Walker: Uh, my concern with an entire show based around this person is like they've set it up for him to be like the new Jabba the Hutt, and I just don't think that it doesn't feel like that's who he is.

[1:20:53] Sarah Joyce: Well, okay, Nik, what are your thoughts?

[1:20:55] Nik Walker: Well, I, but you know, uh right off the bat we see that like we see him sit on that throne, but they completely do away with any sort of slavery.

[1:21:07] Nik Walker: So we we we do know there are some morals there. We do know he does have a script code because I I I do think you you can't you can't have a Boba Fett show without exploring the dark side. And I think something that they did keep is that like he's he's real good at blowing shit up. You know, like he's really, really good at that. He and I think he re I think they went out of their way to show that he likes it. So I I think there's gonna be a lot of uh I think there's gonna be a lot to work with in terms of yes, this is a man of honor and he has a very specific code, but it is his code, you know what I mean? So I think that's gonna be fun to kind of be like is he into sex slavery? No. Does he honor his existence? Yes. You know what I'm saying? Like, will he blow you up? Yes.

[1:21:57] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, I I guess it's interesting because like, yeah, well, we we we don't you know, because we all we ever saw of him was he never spoke. He just showed up to be badass for a few minutes and then supposedly died, but actually didn't die. So like it kind of is a blank slate, and I'm just hopeful that that it goes the right way. That they feel the same. I think they will. I think I I don't think that I think that what's wonderful is you set this up. Again, you know, I was reminded of this when I you know, watching this episode. Um, you know, we are so used to the morality of the Jedi and of the Skywalker clan that we forget that like these people don't exist in that moral spectrum. So, like, while they are making choices that, like, to us in the context of the Mandalorian seem like, oh, they're good people. They're still they're not rebels and they're not empire, like they just exist in this middle ground.

[1:22:49] Nik Walker: And so I think that because like when Luke came in, that's what I was struck by. I was like, oh yeah, Luke, and I was telling this to Sarah, like we've been so used to watching the you know, Mando and and Bo Katan and all these people fight that when you put them up against Luke Skywalker, like you you all of a sudden remember, oh yeah, Luke is actually a whole other level of badass. And that I think is is kind of the fun space that these people get to like it. I think I think honestly, what I I was I just had this thought. I think what John Favreau and Dave Faloni have done so successfully, if you look at all these TV shows, you you have literally built a Star Wars TV universe of like all Han Solo clones.

They are all coming from archetype, like every single person is straight up like playing with that like rogue who maybe has a heart of gold. That is every single person on in the show, like even Ahsoka Tano, who like you know, like is you know, like the most Jedi of all is also like the Jedi don't exist anymore. Do you mean like everyone's in that moral gray space?

[1:23:52] Alex Smolowe: So I think you can with every one of these characters. There's a lot more modern than what than I mean a new hope is so patronizingly a like moralistic. Yes. It's just good versus evil. Like so simplistic in all in all that. So it is nice to see them have gray. Because TV is so good at gray, right? They've got the time to explore it.

[1:24:16] Nik Walker: Can can we talk really quickly about Michael Bean and Michael Bean's acting choices?

[1:24:22] Sarah Joyce: Oh yeah, let's talk.

[1:24:23] Nik Walker: In in the Rosario Dawson episode. I was I was kind of bewildered because the entire time it's just like this okay, that that is Michael Bean. That is Kyle Reese. That is the father of the revolution. You know what I'm saying? And Michael Bean. I don't know where he made those choices from. He's just some dude who's following orders and he tries to shoot Mando. I have orders. I gotta follow orders. I got orders, but the whole time. He's just making like I did not realize that that's who that character was. At least in the Ahsoka episode.

[1:25:02] Sarah Joyce: It's Michael Bean, yeah.

[1:25:03] Nik Walker: That's the actor.

[1:25:04] Sarah Joyce: Yeah, it didn't it didn't click when I was watching it. I know I recognized him from somewhere. I just kind of brushed it off. He was doing this weird voice, and he just looked so bored the entire time. I was I I was very happy to see him in this show, but I was just like, what what is this man doing?

[1:25:22] Nik Walker: It did seem like he was trying like a laid back because like no, I mean, looking at his work before, do you mean like I I I'm thinking of Tombstone, I'm thinking of Terminal, like this is a guy who can, in fact, act, like really, yeah. He made some out of the box choices in this episode, which I think is why, you know, he he had such a successful career, and I respect it, but I was just like, What's going on, Michael Bean?

[1:25:46] Sarah Joyce: He was very laid back.

[1:25:47] Nik Walker: Super, super laid back.

[1:25:49] Sarah Joyce: Incredibly laid back.

[1:25:51] Nik Walker: Incredibly almost almost almost undetectably laid back. His work was almost uh imperceptible to the human eye and ear. Uh but yeah, I mean, I I agree with you, Sarah. I think it's I think you're right. And I I I am excited for the um for the for the Star Wars for like the new Star Wars universe. I think this is I think this is exactly the direction. You know what moment it was? And we're going way beyond. I assume if people don't want to hear about this, then they could have turned things off already. So we can just keep going. Um the one moment in the last episode between all of the stuff, the Luke Skywalker revealed the Boba Fett, the one thing that really gave me that made me happy and gave me confidence that they were in the right place from a storytelling perspective was the Alderon conversation.

[1:27:37] Alex Smolowe: Oh yeah.

[1:27:37] Nik Walker: Yeah, yeah, where they finally, because that's always been the thing, right? Is like, wait a minute, like they just blew up a the Death Star where there's like there's a lot of people living on there who had nothing to do with any of this, and they're celebrating the murder of all these people. It has always been like the running joke, right? Because the original movies were so more so black and white, it was like, okay, we defeated evil. Why blowing the Death Star up means we defeated evil. So to see a character in that universe actually say, You killed millions of people on that station. Like my friends were on that station. There were families on that station, like you celebrated it. You were dancing in the streets because of this, like that that felt more than anything, like the setup for where this is all gonna go.

[1:27:44] Alex Smolowe: This deep that was really disappointing. I was and like it they had me until he took off the hood. And I was like, and I mean I was still affected. I mean, and this says this says to me, okay, Luke Skywalker will not be a character on the show then at all. If they had brought it in, if they had found somebody who looked like him, and very obviously with the black and hand, like somebody who could be Luke Skywalker, sh have him show up. Because that says, hey, next season, this is like somebody that we're gonna play with now. This is gonna show up. Uh, but this way we know he's gonna remain this mythic character, even though they've, you know, uh it's it and it looks terrible. It just looks god off.

[1:28:26] Nik Walker: It looks bad.

[1:28:27] Alex Smolowe: It looks bad. The fur You know, like when when he takes his hood off and he didn't say one word, he looked very good. You know, he looked good. He was good. I feel I I'm not sure about you know the technology. I I was thinking it would have been cool if they had the reveal of him from the front, and then the rest of the scene could have been him maybe in profile. You know what I mean?

[1:28:53] Nik Walker: Right.

[1:28:53] Alex Smolowe: It would have added a really cool tone, but it just wouldn't have looked so terrible. I'm not sure if the side view uh you know requires more muscle work. I I do not know, but um that that did not look good. It really did not have that good. But and and it's interesting because you know when it did look good, and uh you know, so Peyton Reed directed this, who, uh, you know, is the director of the Ant-Man uh part of the franchise of the MCU. Um I will say the the only time I've seen D aging that I was like, ooh, that actually looks great was friggin' Michael Douglas in the first one was like holy shit.

[1:29:35] Sarah Joyce: Oh my gosh, as far as as far as it goes.

[1:29:38] Nik Walker: I mean, I think the Irishman's the only one who's that's really pulled it off and they didn't really pull it off.

[1:29:44] Alex Smolowe: Dude, they did not. We gotta okay.

[1:29:46] Nik Walker: It's about as good as it can get.

[1:29:48] Alex Smolowe: No, dude, here's the Irishman was proof to me okay, here's the and we talked about this. The issue with the Irishman uh uh was that like you had it it really I will say they pulled it off maybe for the scenes when they're supposed to be in like their late forties, early fifties. Right. Maybe. The scenes when he's supposed to be in like his twenties, thirties and is op have the body of a 30 year old man and is like hobbling around it was it literally just looked wrong. It just it just was at that point it was like just hire a different actor. Like it's too much.

[1:30:29] Nik Walker: Right.

[1:30:29] Alex Smolowe: It doesn't work. Um and they tried and they and I good God bless them for trying and and you know, and obviously all those actors are just incredible and we want to see them on screen as much as we can. But um, yeah, I I did not think the Irishman was success. I thought it was a it was a grand experiment that failed grandly. Um Michael Douglas to me in Ant Man, I thought that was I thought that was like Chef's kiss.

[1:30:56] Nik Walker: It was it was, it was very shiny. You know, and they and it was almost good in Captain Marvel. I was I was impressed by Captain Marvel, because I was like, ooh, okay, like, I mean, you're having to work with this guy to like get him back to you know, his pulp fiction days and for and sustain it for an entire film. Um they kind of did. Like, I was kind of like, okay. Um, but yeah, Michael Douglas, you know, I who knows. That I I think we just need to let this go and find more like we accept that Mark Hamill is now very, you know, is much older. Um, and he played a character that will forever be iconic. What makes it weird too is like we've seen him old now in the movies. Like in that universe, we know what old Luke Skywalker looks like. So now we have old Luke Skywalker, we have young Luke Skywalker, and we have young CGI Luke Skywalker.

[1:31:45] Sarah Joyce: Yeah.

[1:31:46] Nik Walker: You know, it it adds an element to Luke that we didn't really, I don't know, just like seemed unnecessary. After Return of the Jedi, he just got really on his skincare. He started getting all of these moisturizers, and his skin just like as he got more powerful with the the force, the the shine, the sheen of his skin also got more powerful.

[1:32:15] Alex Smolowe: Moisturized.

[1:32:16] Nik Walker: That is the moisturized Jedi.

[1:32:19] Sarah Joyce: Guys, what would you guys have done?

[1:32:24] Nik Walker: All of them is good.

[1:32:25] Alex Smolowe: Yeah.

[1:32:25] Nik Walker: What what would you guys have done if this dark cloaked figure makes his way through the Star Destroyer green lightsaber in hand, destroying dark troopers every left and right, opens the the sh blast shield doors, Pedro Pascal standing there ready to fire at him. Guy takes off his hood, and it's Al Pacino.

[1:32:49] Sarah Joyce: What play playing?

[1:32:50] Nik Walker: What a flight. Guys, I think this is like the nerdiest episode that we've ever done. I think this is it. I like the whole getting the movies the movie choice stuff out of the way so we can just talk about 15 20 minutes. That's really what the episode's about. But uh, but yeah. Let's let's let's spare them. Let's wrap it up and spare them the because we'll we'll just talk all about the shit. But uh Sarah, you are amazing. Thank you, thank you, thank you for being a friend.

[1:33:23] Sarah Joyce: Ah, I got it in.

[1:33:24] Nik Walker: Uh thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This was awesome. You're the best. Um guys, please, you know, uh, as we as we close in on the light at the end of the tunnel with this pandemic, um, you know, please, please take care of yourselves. Please do the research, please um, you know, look into these vaccines. Uh, you know, it is it is a real pandemic, and these are real vaccines. So please please read up uh and and and own this knowledge for yourself. Um so that you can you can be uh, you know, like right, you know, I i i it really we are we are we are approaching uh what can hopefully be uh a new era of this thing, so let's let's stay in there and and uh and stay safe everybody. You know?

[1:34:11] Alex Smolowe: Stay safe.

[1:34:13] Nik Walker: Good good words, good thoughts.

[1:34:15] Sarah Joyce: Thanks, buddy.

[1:34:16] Nik Walker: All right, guys, we will see you soon. Have a great day.

[1:34:28] Alex Smolowe: Fuck yeah.