This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Nik Walker: Hey, Alex.

[0:01] Alex Smolowe: Hey, Nik.

[0:02] Nik Walker: How you doing today, man?

[0:04] Alex Smolowe: I'm good.

[0:05] Nik Walker: I got my coffee. It's a nice Wednesday morning.

[0:07] Alex Smolowe: It's cloudy out.

[0:08] Nik Walker: I like it when it's cloudy out.

[0:09] Alex Smolowe: Wait, the cloudiness happens in LA?

[0:11] Nik Walker: June gloom.

[0:12] Alex Smolowe: You never heard of June gloom?

[0:13] Nik Walker: I've never heard.

[0:14] Alex Smolowe: Is that a per is that a book?

[0:16] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[0:17] Alex Smolowe: No, it's every June in LA, a marine layer that comes in and then burns off by the afternoon.

[0:24] Nik Walker: But my soul feels a connection to it, you know? Clouds and rain and darkness. And I love it.

[0:30] Alex Smolowe: Yeah. That's fucked up, but I I'm with it.

[0:33] Nik Walker: You know, and I want you to notice, Alex, I'm trying a new leaf here. I'm trying to support you.

[0:37] Alex Smolowe: I appreciate that.

[0:38] Nik Walker: You didn't come in swinging. You didn't come in swinging. You're not talking about how miserable my life is, how you know the mistake of me.

[0:46] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, I appreciate that. Let's keep it up. Let's keep it up. Let's see how far we can take this thing.

[0:51] Nik Walker: Alex, I love the way that you edit. I love it. I love the sinewiness of your hair, your flaxen Luke Skywalker hair. I love, you know what? I love that you let me live on your couch for a good year.

[1:09] Alex Smolowe: I feel like this is something where you're gonna dump out on me and you're gonna say some shit.

[1:13] Nik Walker: No, he's not.

[1:14] James Monroe Iglehart: I am. I'm done with this. I'm done with this intro. I don't know what's going on. I have listened to all your podcasts. I don't know if you know this, Nik, but I'm a freaking Tony winner. And you're gonna make me listen to this crowd.

[1:25] James Monroe Iglehart: But here's the fun part. Here's the great part. Alex, you are a wonderful director living in the la la land of Los Angeles, and you're gonna let this dude from New York bullshit you about this? Come on! He has dissed you on every single podcast. Even you were in his wedding. You have had his back. You put him in his only movie, and you're gonna let him bullshit you like this?

[1:48] James Monroe Iglehart: Luke Skywalker hair. I have seen your work. I have listened to your edits. The only reason why this man has a podcast is because you, Los Angeles director, said you would be there. And the only reason why people are listening is because they thought, after all the crap you've done on social media, that James Monroe Iglehart, the star of Hamilton, the genie in Aladdin, Memphis, Disney cartoons, people love me. They knew I was gonna be here with the only reason why they're listening.

[2:17] Nik Walker: Shut up!

[2:21] James Monroe Iglehart: Little Justice.

[2:24] Nik Walker: Little Justice.

[2:27] James Monroe Iglehart: Little Justice.

[2:31] Nik Walker: Fuck yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, we are here with the first on the Broadway Podcast Network. And this is because we are talking about films. We are talking about your favorite nerd things. And why? Because Nik Walker has popular friends. Alex, start the show.

[2:49] James Monroe Iglehart: I think I found my new co-host.

[2:55] Nik Walker: Oh, god damn it. Welcome. I have never in my life. That see, sinewy hair, whatever. You know, you're giving me compliments, and I'm feeling good about that. I'm like, oh, this is nice. I have never felt so my soul is moved by that. My body is shook. I am so disgusted by everything.

[3:15] James Monroe Iglehart: You should be.

[3:17] Nik Walker: I don't know why I made the choice.

[3:19] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah, I don't know why you were really stupid. Here's the fun part, Nik. We let this battle go. I let you win. I let you. I let you win. I let you win. I let you get Batman out there. I let you have your little moment. I let it go. I let you be the star right next door to me. I let everybody come and go. Look at Nik and Wagger staying, and he ain't too proud. He's got a good podcast. Broadway Network, Broadway Podcast Network asked me to have a podcast. I said, No. Hey, let Nik have his moment. Kill you.

[3:49] James Monroe Iglehart: And I said, no, my I got you can you can ask Alan Seales, the producer of the network. You can ask him. I told him, I said, hey man, I don't have the bandwidth right now, but you got Nik Walker, and of course, Alex is there gonna do the best job and make it sound, make Nik sound good. So let me step off for a minute. And what do you do? What do you do? You go off on your other little half-ass podcast. Oh, you little sh thing, you little and you put up a picture of Will Smith as the genie. And you say, Hey, James Monroe Iglehart is here, and you put up that motherfucker's picture.

[4:19] James Monroe Iglehart: Here's the great thing. I love Will. Will is a uh Oscar nominated person. I love to be in the group, but you dissed me because let's just be honest. And people can say it. There is one black genie, and it is me. It is not the guy from the old films, it is not Will Smith, it is not the other brothers that came in because they all look like me. It is me. And what do you do, Nik? What do you do? You and your girl Sasha, who I love, by the way, because I know it wasn't Sasha's fault because she didn't edit that. You did. You put up this picture and then had the nerve to invite me to your podcast. And you think, you think that I was gonna let that go? Nah, man, I've been quiet. I've been quiet because here's the fun thing.

My wife, my wife of 18 years is the one that told me to leave you alone. Basically, like a mom stopping a bully from beating up a kid. And she said, No, let she said, let Nik have this. Let Nik have his Batman moment, James. Stop it. You have other important things to do. So I did.

[5:19] James Monroe Iglehart: And the great thing is, Nik, it doesn't matter whether you got Batman. You did, you got Batman. I got your wife. We have that in common, actually.

[5:30] Nik Walker: Hey, there you go.

[5:31] James Monroe Iglehart: You know, the great thing about Sarah is she is a loving person. And it's like seeing a kicked puppy. And she said, I've got to take care of this puppy. Oh, God, dude. I gotta make sure that Nik is okay. And every time something happens on Instagram, you can see her going, This is my man. This is my man. She's a strong black woman. Look at my man. Don't talk to my husband. You know why? Because she's a strong, a loving black woman to make you feel better. If you didn't have anybody, you'd be a kicked bully. But you know what? Hey, this is your show. You go ahead, talk. What do you got to say?

[6:02] Nik Walker: Yeah, go on, Nik. Intro.

[6:05] James Monroe Iglehart: Intro, Nik.

[6:06] Nik Walker: No, the intro's done. There's no intro.

[6:09] James Monroe Iglehart: Well, welcome everybody to the show.

[6:12] Nik Walker: What's the matter?

[6:13] James Monroe Iglehart: No, the show's already started. Clearly.

[6:15] Nik Walker: Clearly.

[6:16] James Monroe Iglehart: The show's already been. You know the great, you know the great thing about Nik Walker's show is that Nik Walker's show talks about movies. Nik Walker talks about the things that fans of movies like. They went over biopics. We went over different types of films to make you feel like that. And today, today we're gonna talk about the films that you love that are based on comic books and how closely we will compare these films.

[6:40] James Monroe Iglehart: And the great thing is, you actually have a host who actually knows how to do a podcast. And I don't mean Nik, I mean me. Um I can't. Alex, let's just throw this out there. I mean, Alex, you and Nik probably have a film that you guys want to talk about because it's your show, quote unquote. Uh, why don't you guys throw out that film and me as the guest, I will wait, and then I will throw out my film because that's what a host usually does. But since Nik hasn't had the balls to step in and stop me because he can't, I'm gonna throw the ball to you. Pass it on, Bill. Just you know, call me Steph Curry. Passing it.

[7:11] Alex Smolowe: I'll take it. I'll take it.

[7:16] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah. So how do how do I follow this up? Uh what's the theme? Just give them the theme at least.

[7:21] Alex Smolowe: All right. So today the theme is it's not just comic book adaptation. It is the most faithful comic book adaptation. Because this day and age, there are so many comic book movies out there, right? If famous comic book source material exists, there's been TV shows, there's been movies. And sometimes, sometimes what they do is they take it in a very different direction because obviously the visual medium on the page is very different from the visual medium on the screen. There are things you can do in two hours that you can't do in a 300-page graphic novel, and vice versa. So what we're talking about is a movie that is the most faithful to what that source material was trying to do. Whether that means like a shot for shot, whether that means thematically, whether, you know, whatever it means. That's what we're talking about.

[8:12] James Monroe Iglehart: So before we even line it up, James, let's just chat about comic book movies. Let's just, let's just, yeah, what do you think?

[8:20] James Monroe Iglehart: I love them. I think, you know, we've had comic book adaptations since the beginning of time, from the one with the brothers can I should say people could put stories to film. They've always gone to whatever source they could find. And there was something great about, you know, superheroes, whether it be Superman, Batman, The Hulk, Wonder Woman, you know, Spider-Man. It's been great, and they've come in some of the most ridiculous things, whether they be silent films like the old Batman and Robin, or you know, coming up with the Reeves television show with Superman. They've always put these things on film and they've done their best to try and bring the comic book to life while also dealing with what, you know, standards were for television or what the what I call the suits, the people who think they know what the fans want to see and what will be allowed to put up there.

[9:10] James Monroe Iglehart: So someone writes a comic book and Jim Lee writes a comic book and they say, Hey, we're gonna put this on film, and then some suit goes, Hey, that's great. You write comics, I make films. Let me show you what we should do. And then, you know, we end up with, you know, Superman 3. Um, so there are the I love these adaptations, and I've, you know, I will always watch them, but some are just fantastic, and some of them are just way. Some are really bad.

[9:34] Alex Smolowe: I mean, how do you see because it's evolved over time, right? Like it started out, you got the old Adam West Batmans, you know, with tights and whatever. Comic books were always they were they were treated, they're treated a lot of times as like lesser stories, right? Superheroes until until Marvel really came in, really came in and and evolved their whole game.

[9:55] James Monroe Iglehart: They were nerdy. I think I think the fun thing is they were always um Marvel came in and made them cool so that everybody could say, hey, I watch them, I watch a comic book film. There's always been a couple of standouts that have always that people have gone, oh, that made it to, you know, a certain level of popularity, whether it be Chris Christopher Reeves with Superman, or whether it be Tim Burton's Batman, or you know, whether you have something like Jim Carrey's The Mask. There's always been some form of the that one that stood out and said, Oh, this is a comic movie, but it's not really comic movies, it's more for everybody. Where it wasn't until like Marvel came out that all of a sudden, well, I shouldn't say that.

I should say it wasn't until Christopher Nolan came out and did the Batman that made people go, Oh, snap, this can be something. And then Marvel came out with Iron Man, and they went, Wait, I think we have something here now. We've, you know, the past 20 years.

[10:48] Alex Smolowe: But there's always did did be did begins was Batman Begins before Iron Man?

[10:53] James Monroe Iglehart: Oh yeah. Way before?

[10:57] Alex Smolowe: Batman Begins I thought it was, wasn't it?

[11:00] James Monroe Iglehart: I know it was it was it was I think it was right before it was because Batman Begins was it was 2000. I mean, they I would say I would probably I'm guessing that these were probably in production 2005. Around Marvel was trying to figure out oh yeah, Iron Man was a couple years after that.

[11:10] Alex Smolowe: Iron Man was a couple years later.

[11:15] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's why they got it. They got it greenlit because what they wanted to do was um Marvel wanted to have one of their main characters, but they couldn't because uh Fantastic Four Hulk and X-Men and Spider-Man were all with different properties right before Marvel uh filed for bankruptcy. And then a small Marvel company said this, they they said, you know what, we should just do it on our own. Let's just do one. And the only character they had that they felt that could be you know popular or at least not at least make it was Iron Man. And you know, they gambled, and I mean it was a big gamble. If Iron Man didn't work, Marvel was done, and the gamble worked, and you know, the rest is history. They're doing okay now.

[11:54] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, dude, fine. So so what happened? I mean, what do you think that process is like, right? It moving something from from the page, like a comic panel. It's it can be hard to follow. I mean, it you know, the the story moves differently. There's just as much about about drawn art as anything like that. Like moving it onto the screen, what do you think some of the uh the problems are that people run into?

[12:17] James Monroe Iglehart: I think some of the problems are believability. Um it's one thing you can have a guy who has superpowers, but there's a line in the X-Men film, which I love, where Wolverine uh paraphrasing a line was like what am I supposed to wear a yellow spandex it's like that kind of that kind of thing on the screen is what would be a lot you have to almost kind of like nurse the audience to get them ready for something like that. So they nursed the audience over years of comic book movies so we could get to Deadpool where he's looking exactly like he does on the you know on the film. So it's believability but it's also about um the companies believing in the characters enough to let them be who they are the characters are strong enough on their own the stories are strong enough on their own I mean you basically have a comic book which is a storyboard for a movie but you have to have the right timing you know it's it's all the you know you could put out a great film but if the audience isn't ready for it the right timing and also you need a company to believe in it to say we're gonna do this and then let the audience choose and that's what happened Marvel put out Iron Man and the audience ate it up and the rest of the world went I don't understand what's going on so by the time we got to Avengers it was too late.

Everybody was trying to catch up you know we need to make a superhero film we should do the Justice League. No you shouldn't and if you're gonna do it do it right but take time but they didn't they went fast and so I'm looking forward to I'm looking forward to the new one on HBO Max you know I feel like part of the the thing that's making Marvel work though is that they're not really tied to one thing right they have the the characters have transcended the stories that exist on paper.

[13:51] James Monroe Iglehart: Yes. Right? So they're using that, they're pulling from things obviously like all of these storylines kind of exist in one way or another in previous iterations on the page, but the characters and DC is the same thing. The characters transcend where they can tell completely new stories. Like I'm pretty positive that Zack Snyder's Justice League isn't written down anywhere. Right? There's not like a paperback version of the city. No, they basically when DC did the New 52, and I think it's New 50, yeah, New 52, and then right after the New 52, they redid like a rebirth. And they kind of took that story of Darkseid coming in and the Justice League meeting for the first time, and they really loosely based that on how the Justice League first got together.

And so what's funny is almost every comic book story from the big two, Marvel and DC, is based on something that's already on the page. Um and like the Hulk in the Avengers film, that particular Hulk is based on Peter David's Hulk that he created, which was you know, the Hulk that where they have both he had Hulk body and Bruce's brain. You know, Peter David created that look, and they were like, oh, let's use that one. So though these things are based on stuff that's out there, it's just that you don't have enough time to have people read to have people to have enough movies to get you up to snuff where this character is. So you have to kind of like squish everything together and put that character in and find a way to work it so that it all works together.

So that's kind of the thing I like. That's why I like, you know, if for comic book nerds, there's like different universes. There's the MCU, which is the movie universe, then there's the comic book universe, there's the TV universe, and there's the video game universe, and they all do different things, and every once in a while they all like coincide and meet, and it makes it really, really cool.

[15:41] Nik Walker: That's interesting. In terms of looking at it as faithful adaptations, it's interesting thinking about the dynamic of how these stories kind of bounce back and forth and over each other and mix throughout. Yeah, Nick, you got anything? You still with us?

[15:54] Nik Walker: I'm still in recovery, and um I'm gonna be processing a lot of this throughout the episode. So uh I'm just gonna sit here for a second.

[16:04] James Monroe Iglehart: You're just gonna sit here.

[16:05] Nik Walker: I'm gonna say what he did. You see what he did. Let me tell you something. I've always I give Nick credit, I give Nick credit where credit is due. Nick is a fantastic writer. Nick is a fantastic singer. Nick is a great actor, and Nick is an okay dancer. But let's go back to his great acting. Nick just softly told the audience that he's gonna sit back and reflect. Basically making it seem like he's been bullied, he has to deal with it, and hopefully come up with something. Now, what you guys don't know is Nick is a great actor. He's sitting back there waiting for his next move for me to say something stupid so he can jump in and attack. Nick, stop being a little wimp and just talk. You know this crap.

[16:07] James Monroe Iglehart: Nick, let me tell you something. You've had these conversations. While you know what to say. We've had all these conversations. Watch, he's watching, he's about to hit right now. Watch, watch it.

[16:53] Nik Walker: There's nothing, no, no, there's I just I just I you've heard it here. Exactly. You've heard it here first. Right. I just tweeted out that you won, man.

[17:02] James Monroe Iglehart: Shut your ass.

[17:03] Nik Walker: I literally I just I just I said, yo, James came on and he hijacked the pod, and like I'm not even mad. Like he like he won. Like there's nothing like I might have a comeback in like in like a good three weeks, but like there's nothing right now for me to say. Now now what I will say in terms of our topic, in terms of the topic that we are talking about right now. That's what I meant. What I will say about that is uh no, I agree with everything you're saying. I think that I think that one of the things that just that you talked about that I love about these movies, I think Marvel did a really smart thing where they when you watch a DCEU movie, a lot of what you're seeing, it's like that fan service Easter egg, right?

It's like that thing that it's like that, you know, they're they're just it's almost like so many of these movies are just compiled as like fan service, and they're just looking for those things that that the fans are gonna love and the fans will and only the deep deep fans will know, you know, the kind of archive cuts. The thing that I think Marvel did straight away from the beginning was say, okay, we're gonna use these elements to propel story, story, story first. And if the Easter eggs fall in there, like through the story, naturally through the story, then sure, we can put them in there. We can we can do, you know, do pull like the most asinine of characters out of the comics and put them in there.

But story has to come first. And I think that that's where if we're having the Marvel DC discussion, I think that's where they have just overall uh Marvel has just, you know, gone out and gotten out so far in front. It's just story comes first. And so you have, you know, we watched Infinity War last night. The character arc was so clear for for all those people that you've now been watching at this point 10 years. Um you get to the end and you know, and Tony's whole movie is about themes that were presented in Iron Man One. Um so they they really I think they borrowed really from like long form storytelling and from I you know I would even go so far as to say from like T like it's it really is like a long TV show. Like that's that's what they did, just with a bigger budget and really, really talented actors.

[19:13] James Monroe Iglehart: With the MCU at least, what I like with the MCU is that they wrote, I mean, I may probably wrong, but they wrote the films like they were right. Marvel gets together at the beginning of the year and they set down and say, okay, what are we gonna do? And they always they have plans, and then all of a sudden in the group, you know, they have this let's do this one big story, and they have the writers in it go, you do this, you do this, you do this, you do this, you do this. And then these stories come out and people go, Oh my god, they've got this big thing happening. They they didn't do that with the film, but they with Iron Man, they left this Easter egg and they left it open so they could, and then they went from there and like, okay, now what is the big story?

And they wrote the big story. I think what is different with DC and some of the other comic book films or film adaptations are they're just writing that one story, you know. And I think the great thing is they they Marvel knew they would they had a long they they make one good story, but they keep it open for the long story that they really want to write. And that is what makes it so much fun. But that's where they don't have to be as faithful to the material because they know they're gonna bring in just enough of it so that the comic book audience goes, Oh my god, I recognize that. And it's a good enough story that the people who aren't comic book readers go, Oh, what a great story, and make which makes them want to go to the comic and read what how it happened, like in comic book time.

[20:38] Nik Walker: Well, I think I think it shows too in that perspective, looking at what DC did and then what they were trying to do with the universal monsters. Yes. Oh my god, launching the mummy. It's it's you're seeing anybody who has, you know, a famous IP set of characters thinks, oh, well, if Marvel can do it, then we should do it. But they're kind of doing it in reverse, right? They're they're putting the cart before the horse where they're not worried about building up the individual characters. The reason we care about Tony Stark 10 years later is not because one movie was really good, but because we we've started to care about him. We start with a good movie and then we build it over time instead of starting with the big idea and then trying to like fit details in as you go.

[21:16] James Monroe Iglehart: On that note, it's been interesting too to see, you know, and again, I'm not in these studio meetings. I don't know what's going on behind closed doors, and I know also that it's it's very, let's just say it out loud again, very hard to make a movie. So like I get, you know, I mean, I get that like things may happen and people, you know, whatever. But what I what I what what it's appeared like from the outset from the outside eye is like, you know, DCEU saw this thing happening, Dark Universe saw this thing happening with Marvel, and they were like, oh yeah, let's jump on this bandwagon. But then with DCEU, it's almost I mean, I think I think in a smart way they got lazy. I think in a smart way they stopped trying and were just like, yo, let's just let people make good movies.

Right again. And that's why you have a Joker, and that's why you have a Shazam. And and you know, you just what Marvel's doing takes it takes time. It takes time and it takes a visionary, it takes a Kevin Feige to come in and say, yo, here's the plan for the next 10 years. And if you don't have that, then yeah.

[22:13] James Monroe Iglehart: The only one that I think is and I sh I don't put them in the same uh I don't put them in the same vicinity as the MCU, but the one thing that seems to be having uh success with it, even though people some people well, the critics hate the films, is the monster verse. Like Godzilla, uh they they had a long, they had a long game. They knew. When they did Godzilla, they knew they wanted King Kong. When they did King Kong, they knew they wanted Godzilla, they knew they wanted the second Godzilla, they knew what they want, they wanted to build up to the King Kong versus Godzilla fight. They, you know, they want that was their build. And so I think they understood it. And but I hate when critics go, it's just two monsters destroying a city. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. That's all it ever has been.

[23:00] Nik Walker: Do you think that that made it easier for them? Because again, I think I think the thing that they have on their side is you really don't have to do that much legwork in terms of character, because at the end of the day, you're just throwing two monsters in a cage.

[23:11] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah, I think I think the fun thing is I think some people go to films. Okay, there are movies, and at least this is this is James Monroe Iglehart's opinion. No one else's do not take this for anything but coming out of, you know, coming out of me. There are movies, and there are quote unquote films. Films are the movies that only about, I don't know, 50, maybe 40% of the world watches. No one knows who they are. They win Oscars, and people go, who the hell is that and where'd that come from? Then there are movies that real people watch, and those films are good and fun and make millions of dollars. And everybody goes and buys the DVD for the extra stuff. And oh my god, they're wearing chains and shirts and stuff.

There's nobody walking around with a shirt that says out of Africa. No one's doing that. No one's no one is gonna be, you know, going out and getting a film. No one's gonna get no, as much as I love my brother Mahershala, no one's gonna go out and get a shirt, you know, with, you know, Moonlight. There's like five people. Maybe, maybe more, maybe, maybe okay, that's not true. Maybe a thousand people got a Moonlight shirt. But everybody has an Iron Man shirt, people got Godzilla on there, people, you know, people walking around with ET. You know, they're movies. When these films come out, people want entertainment, they want to get away. You don't want to watch, you know, real life protests on TV and then go to the film and go, yeah, man, tell me about the Black Lives Matter and how much white people have been shooting us.

No, we we kind of want to get away for a minute and see the Millennium Falcon do some crap that's completely impossible. We want we want to see little Luke Skywalker beat up Darth Vader. Well, we know deep down he really should have got his ass kicked. But you know, it's a movie.

[24:44] James Monroe Iglehart: Which is why, which is in that this this just brings up another point that I've always wanted to make, but that's why it pisses me off when in you know, when in recent years, when um we have had more diverse casting in these films, you know, a lot of people have jumped on, oh well God, now Star Wars is like trying to be a social justice war. It's like, no, Star Wars trying to make money, thank you, and they realize that that these movies are for everyone. Yes, do you know what I mean? And and so we want to see ourselves reflected in this universe. That's that's what it comes, and and it's so crazy because in America everything is political, but also not everything is political. There's some things that are just about you know, people having a good time.

Some things are just about money, because it's really one of my favorite things about the stuff one little tangent. One of my favorite things about the Star Wars universe is if the you watch the first Star Wars, right? The Star Wars One, Star Wars Four, Five, Six, and you find one black guy, and he's you find two black guys. You have Lando Calrissian, yes, and the dude in one of the uh in the rebel fighters who goes, it's gonna blow, and he blows up and he dies. And then there's the fat guy, you know, Porkins, Porkins dies. There, there's no females flying, but then you get to so something happened between number one, two, and three, where we had nothing but female pilots. Where did they go for four or five and six?

How did they and then they came back for seven, eight, nine? What where where have they been? So that's where have they been, George? Where have they been? Well, stuff like that when you when people say, Oh, now they're trying to just get our attention. You're like, yes, they have to reflect the time, but when you reflect the time and didn't reflect it before, it does seem kind of weird that you know there was one black dude, now you get to the new universe, and there's like tons of brothers flying ships and women are women are pilots and killing things. But like those, it's like those those middle years when the empire was in control. Yeah, maybe you could make a short story and say, actually, we want no black people flying and no women flying.

This is why also I will always give it up to Carrie Fisher. Because if you look at what she was doing, like she with the archetype she was given, and then what she did with that archetype at the time she did it. Like I was when I watched A New Hope recently, I was like, Oh my god, like you were you were doing shit that like I don't know. She was a Maverick. She was like, yo, fuck this. I'm creating I don't care if you know, yes, I'm a princess in a castle and you need to wrestle rescue me, but I'm also gonna give you like a fully dimensional character. Yeah, and also realize, oh my god, you're the prince who does not know what he's doing. Let me fix that. I was gonna let you help me, but you have no idea what you're doing. But I'm sorry, I stepped off topic. Uh, most faithful type of coach.

[27:08] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, absolutely.

[27:09] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah.

[27:09] Alex Smolowe: What do you guys think? I mean, what's your pick? Nik, do you want to go?

[27:13] Nik Walker: I can go first or you can go first. Whichever one, either way.

[27:16] Alex Smolowe: I have such a back seat. I'm such a back seat driver now.

[27:19] Nik Walker: You're such... I love this.

[27:22] Alex Smolowe: I know you, this is probably your favorite back seat. You've been completely put in your place.

[27:27] James Monroe Iglehart: And can I say this though? You try to... I knew that this was coming in some form or fashion. I was not prepared. I was not prepared for the onslaught. Like, truly, I was unprepared.

[27:38] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, let me tell you something, audience, you're about not being prepared now. You guys have probably seen, or maybe you haven't, you have to go far in our Instagrams where I used to scare the crap out of Nik Walker when he was just, you know, man five, man six in our wonderful show. And now he's, you know, the lead of A2 Crowd, and he is fantastic. And when Broadway opens back up, you have to go see it because the man is a tour de force, he is ridiculous on stage, and I will never ever take that from Nik Walker.

[28:04] James Monroe Iglehart: But Nik's walking down the street, and I can see him walking so confidently down the street because he's a principal now. You know, you could tell there's a principal air to his... I can't stand you.

[28:13] Alex Smolowe: And what's funny is Nik is like 6'4, 6'5, very lanky, tall dude. And so he has this little kind of like this little bounce when he walks, and especially when he's feeling confident. And I walked up to him and scared the living hell out of him. And he went right back down to man six. You could tell he was like, "Where'd you come from?" He says directly, he goes, "You will not do this to me." And I said, "You mean what I just did right now?" He just looked at me and he's like, he knew, he knew, yes, Nik is going to be the Hollywood guy. And when he's walking off stage after winning his Oscar for best script from whatever movie, I'm gonna scare the living crap out of him backstage and say, "Congratulations on the Oscar." And there's nothing he can do. He's just gonna hold the Oscar scared to death, and he's pissed in his pants, have to go change his pants and then go do the interview. That's what you do when you win an award, because I've won one, I know.

[29:02] Nik Walker: Um, I hate you!

[29:06] James Monroe Iglehart: I hate... I need you to teach me your ways.

[29:10] Nik Walker: No, you don't need to be... Alex, here's what you do, my young Padawan. This is what you do. You know Nik Walker, and Nik Walker knows you. But the problem is, as long as you know Nik Walker, you can get it. Most people are always listening to his sob stories about, "Oh man, when I was in Boston, I hate Jerry how people treated me," all his plays, all these plays. Okay, have you read the script that he's written? Yeah, yeah, all of his plays are the metaphor for his childhood of how people treated him wrong and how he wanted to be an anarchist. And if you know this, you can use it to your advantage. It's great.

[29:50] James Monroe Iglehart: I'm pretty sure we know what's going on. I'm pretty sure behind closed doors, there's one guy who just pokes the hell out of George Lucas, and he hates him. It's probably Steven Spielberg going, "Hey George, hey, hey, are you still gonna wear that shirt, George?" "Stop it, Steve. Stop it, okay? Stop it." This is probably like one dude with Quentin Tarantino just poking him. "Hey man, you're gonna steal some more Japanese stuff with just my Asian movie. Stop it, man. Just quit, okay? Stop it."

[30:17] Alex Smolowe: We are the crew. We have a hell of a therapy session this week. The fun part is people listening to this, we have 32 minutes in, and we have not talked about topics at all. We have not named one of our stories.

[30:31] Nik Walker: I knew it. I knew this would happen.

[30:32] Alex Smolowe: All right, hard. Nik, do you need like a couple minutes? Should I go so you can collect yourself?

[30:36] Nik Walker: I mean, no, you know what? I can go. I can go, Alex.

[30:41] Alex Smolowe: All right.

[30:43] Nik Walker: Yes, yes, he could go.

[30:46] James Monroe Iglehart: I can go. We believe you, man. We're here for it.

[30:49] Nik Walker: No, I don't believe shit that you can believe.

[30:51] James Monroe Iglehart: I believe you, Luke, although I... Luke, we believe you. Although I don't know about you, I don't see any old powerful force controlling my destiny. But go right ahead.

[30:57] Nik Walker: I'll kill you.

[30:57] James Monroe Iglehart: I'll kill you. How dare you? God damn it.

[31:00] James Monroe Iglehart: By the way, one last thing. I always tell Nik. Nik writes as if he... and he knows he's gonna hate it because he knows what I'm gonna say. Nik writes from a point of view of... Nik Walker, Nikki walks, is the villain. And he's going to show everyone. But deep down, Nik is the hero. Nik is the hero and Alex, you and I are the sidekick slash villains. And the funny thing is the best way to describe Nik Walker is anybody seen South Park when they... when Butters and he becomes Professor Chaos and he goes, "I'm gonna show everybody, we're not destroying him." And really, Butters is the nicest kid in the world, and he's the nicest kid, but he's created Professor Chaos as this ego until I destroy the world, but nothing ever goes right.

It's like... and nothing goes right for Butters until he does something good because Butters is a good guy. Nik, you're a good guy. You are a hero. You are Luke Skywalker. You are the hero. You're not even Batman, you're Luke Skywalker. Although Nik's favorite film is The Dark Knight, and he... oh, he's just like, "Look at it, how beautiful it is, and how he watches it over and over again. And look at what Christopher Nolan did on this editing moment, this writing moment," and he looks at it and he knows it. But deep down, he's Luke and he's looking for power converters, and he will become a Jedi. I tell you, he will become a Jedi someday with the mechanical hand and the green thing. But Nik, just be the hero.

Look, the seven stories. There's the hero, there's the wizard, there's the friends, there's the villain, there's the princess, and then there's the adventure. You know, you're a writer, you've read the book. Jonathan Campbell, you got it. You're the hero, Nik. Be the hero. Start the journey. What's the movie that you want to talk about?

[32:41] Nik Walker: Oh god. I hate you so much.

[32:49] Nik Walker: I hate you. God, all right. Let me get into this freaking movie. I can't stand you. I'm like dying. I'm literally dying right now. I'm like melting in my chair. Listen, the movie that I wanted to... I was so... you know, when we chose this topic yesterday, obviously the first place in my mind was Marvel and DC and all those, but then I was like, okay, but if we're talking about the most faithful, what is the movie that took a comic book story? And you know Nik's gonna pick the one I pick, right? I just know it because he's really smart. I just have this terrible feeling.

[33:20] James Monroe Iglehart: Listen, it might be, it might be, it might be, but I think... but what is the most faithful? What takes... and I also... it was the thing that I went back and forth in my mind was does it need to be something that... is it about the essence of character or about the essence of tone? Is it... you know, what is it more important? Is there something more important than just throwing up the plot onto a screen? I think... and I think there is, and this movie does that. So my movie opens with a bunch of very intense studio titles. Um, and then we open on a rainy night in a city.

[33:59] Nik Walker: Did you choose it? Is this the one?

[34:00] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah. Keep talking, yes, it probably is.

[34:02] Nik Walker: Rainy night in a city. Young woman out on a balcony. In a red dress walks up to her.

[34:11] James Monroe Iglehart: You gotta take the same or pick the same drunk.

[34:15] Nik Walker: But it's... I mean, here's what I think I've done. There's a reason why...

[34:17] James Monroe Iglehart: Go ahead, Nik. Go ahead.

[34:20] Nik Walker: You totally take it. There's totally a reason why. It is, I think it's the best.

[34:25] James Monroe Iglehart: Yes.

[34:25] Nik Walker: If you're talking about a con... like a screen, a page to screen adaptation.

[34:30] James Monroe Iglehart: Exactly.

[34:31] Nik Walker: I just think it's... he took... he took... and so of course we're talking about Sin City.

[34:35] James Monroe Iglehart: It's your eyes.

[34:38] Nik Walker: All the things I see in your eyes.

[34:44] James Monroe Iglehart: What is it you see in my eyes?

[34:46] Nik Walker: You're ready to face what you have to face.

[34:49] James Monroe Iglehart: You don't want to face it alone.

[34:53] Nik Walker: No. I don't want to face it alone.

[34:57] James Monroe Iglehart: So I have all three books, right? I have them right here.

[35:00] Nik Walker: Uh-huh.

[35:00] James Monroe Iglehart: Um, at my side. And, you know, you read... you read A Dame to Kill For, you read the... the hard goodbye, all these books, and he did... it's... I mean, yes, there are some... there's some dialogue that's like absolutely just lifted. Yes, also there's also something that's changed, and there's some scenes that are like a little changed, but like it all is in service of the tone of the movie. The tone... the tone of the movie is just so well done.

[35:31] Nik Walker: And you know, there's things quite honestly that like watching the movie last night, I was like, wow. Another situation where I have to give it up to the women in this movie because big time because quite frankly, you know, I love Frank Miller, but like this shit in terms of equality of the sexes does not hold up. Like it's... it's pretty... the women in this movie are props. They are props and they are sexualized and it's ridiculous. But all of these women, Carla Gugino, come on. She found... like they just find a way to like lean into the style of the film and give you characters that like you remember.

[36:12] James Monroe Iglehart: Forget it, man. You can bang on that door all night if you want to. There is no way in hell I'm letting you in.

[36:19] Nik Walker: I can't believe you're doing this to me, Shelley.

[36:22] James Monroe Iglehart: Like, yeah, better... better than some of... like I'm sorry, because to me, the weak... and I don't know what you boys think about this. To me, the weak link here, as much as I hate to say it, is Bruce.

[36:33] Nik Walker: Just one hour to go. My last day on the job. Early retirement. Not my idea.

[36:38] James Monroe Iglehart: And it's not... it's not about anything about him. Like, I love Bruce Willis, but I'm just like, it just seems like everyone else leaned so hard into this movie. But I think... I think with Bruce, it was one of those moments of he had the stars, he had the stars, but at the time, at the time, Bruce was the biggest one.

[36:55] Nik Walker: Yes.

[36:56] James Monroe Iglehart: You know, like now, if you did it and Clive Owen was in it, that's a whole different thing. Funny thing is if you did it now, it'd be a whole different cast of people. I mean, God, it'd be totally different. But um, I think Bruce... Bruce played it like Bruce could. Bruce played it.

[37:09] Nik Walker: I don't think it wasn't that Bruce didn't lean in. I think Bruce played it to the best of Bruce Willis's ability.

[37:17] James Monroe Iglehart: And I mean, I think... I think the character, you know, it's... it's all very old noir, yeah, yeah, you know, 40s, 50s, whatever. And so that requires kind of, um, like a stoic main voice, right? A guy and an anchor to the world where you believe he's... you know he's a good guy, but he's... he's hard and he can get into the shit. Surrounded by a colorful cast of characters, right? And so the dynamic of the world comes from these other big forces, you know, pushing in on Bruce Willis. You know, it makes for not a very interesting character, but an interesting relationship.

[37:51] Alex Smolowe: I agree with you, Alex. I do. And also I think there's a moment where some of the other characters were able to hide behind either their story or their makeup. You know, you have Clark, who is Marv, and he got to hide behind that character.

[38:05] James Monroe Iglehart: Worth dying for, worth killing for, worth going to hell for.

[38:12] Nik Walker: Once he got the makeup on, it's like... it's like when you put on a costume, yeah, you know what that character's gonna feel like. You know he... you've read the page, you know you've seen the lines on the page, you've seen the pictures in the comic, and then you put on the costume, put on the makeup, and all of a sudden you can feel it.

[38:27] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah, and that's what he did. I think with Clive Owen, he's surrounded by a cast of women that he had to step into that character because they had... they did too. So you step into that, you know. It's the same thing with Elijah Wood, you know, once you put the glasses on, you're like, "Oh, I got this." Whereas Bruce Willis, he's... it's kind of like the comparison, at least for me, to if you're going up against Jim Carrey, don't try to be funny, Tommy Lee Jones. Love you, but don't do that.

[38:54] Nik Walker: Um, yeah, so when you have, you know, the guy who's playing, you know, Rourke Jr., he's such a character that somebody has to play the straight man. And I think that, you know, and you have... I mean to have Powers Booth, somebody has to play the straight man who's Booth is... that's Bruce. Bruce's character had to be the straight guy because everybody was so big, yeah, that somebody has to like ground it in reality.

[39:22] James Monroe Iglehart: So it's not... it's not that he didn't lean into it, I think it's just he had to do what he had to do to keep it, you know, that comic book believability moment, like I said at the beginning. I've never read the source material, the original book. So it's... it's page for page, like it's literally... it's insane the amount of detail that he was able to capture and then embellish upon. Like there's so many shots that start with what it looks like on the page and then wind out to something bigger and better.

[39:51] Nik Walker: But back to your point, James, I think... I think you're absolutely right. And I also think... I also think that like, you know, when you... when it came to casting this movie, you know, I think that you really had an interesting thing because you had a lot of, you know, Clive Owen at that moment was this... he... I mean he had something to prove. Mickey Rourke was trying to revive his career. He was... he had something to prove, and the wrestler, right?

[40:15] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah.

[40:16] Nik Walker: This right before... yeah, right. I think it's... yeah, I think it's right before the wrestler. I think... I think he... there was a... maybe a couple years, but he came in like that blood for blood monologue when he... yeah, that he... I'm... I was watching that lesson, like, "Oh my god, like go, man."

[40:28] James Monroe Iglehart: How the hell do you suppose I'm gonna square this with the board?

[40:31] James Monroe Iglehart: Wait, no, squaring it, not this time.

[40:34] James Monroe Iglehart: This isn't some bar room, bro.

[40:36] James Monroe Iglehart: Or some creep with a gas can trying to torch someone.

[40:40] James Monroe Iglehart: Oh, hey, hey, this is big.

[40:41] James Monroe Iglehart: Settle down, Marv, take another pill.

[40:43] Nik Walker: Hey, there is no settling down.

[40:45] James Monroe Iglehart: This is blood for blood and gallons. This is the old days, kind of bad days, the all or nothing days. They're back. There's no choices left. And I'm ready for war.

[40:56] Nik Walker: Yep, exactly. So I really think that you had a cat, like Rosario Dawson.

[41:02] James Monroe Iglehart: Mike, you want to talk about biggest swinging big. Like, she just comes in like, I'm gonna do my own version of Catwoman. Here's the thing, Rosario Dawson does not get enough credit. Rosario Dawson. Something really, really tiny, like in Daredevil, and make it amazing. And then she could take something like even minuscule from like Sin City and go, No, I'm take this is mine. Her on screen is no matter what she's in, even Clerks 2, which please help me. Um, she just takes the screen. It doesn't matter what she's doing. I don't think she gets enough credit. She does I don't think they've given her, or she hasn't had that. She's had big films, but she hasn't had that. This is my movie. I'm the super superstar, it's all about me, and then that particular film has become big.

But every time she's in something, it's the casting for this was ridiculous. You know, but yeah, everyone, everyone was hungry. Everyone was hungry, you know, for the most part, and you could see that and like and and trying, and also remember that like this was on the heels of the Matrix when we were in this era of playing with you know, playing with how we made movies.

[42:06] Nik Walker: And when this movie came out, like I remember like these these effects that kind of you know, I mean, they've aged well, like it still looks beautiful.

[42:13] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah, it does. But it was when it came out, this it wasn't a guarantee. Like people, this was like, what the hell are you doing? Like this was this is very different. Frank Miller's name was big enough for cop for the millions of comic book fans to come out and see it. Because one, it was Sin City, too. This is the guy that wrote, you know, The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Returns, blah blah blah. You know, he brought back Daredevil, that style. But to see it on film, especially because of how gritty it was and the subject matter. Yeah, they always this was the they always uh toned down comic book movies. They never wanted to get too too deep. You don't want to get too violent, you don't want to, it'll scare away the fans.

Of course, comic book people read it, but they read it in their homes in their homes by themselves. No one's looking over their shoulder. I mean, we've got people paying to see this. And he uh it was it was just brilliant what they were able to do with it because they didn't care, they just put what was on the page on film.

[43:14] Nik Walker: Robert Rodriguez and Frank Miller said, no, let's just do the comic and let the people decide. And they did.

[43:20] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah, they really I remember seeing it in IMAX going, Holy crap, this is amazing. Well, out of the three, out of the three storylines, which were you guys, so there's three if you guys haven't seen Sin City, there's uh three storylines that that kind of interweave. There's the Bruce Willis storyline, the Clive Owen storyline, and the Mickey Rourke storyline. Which one do you think? And I mean, and there's also the Josh Hartnett, but that that comes in and asked, um, which which one is your favorite out of those out of those three?

[43:46] James Monroe Iglehart: To be honest, my my favorite is the Big Marv story. Uh yeah.

[43:49] Nik Walker: Yeah, me too.

[43:50] James Monroe Iglehart: And I think I think it's the best one. Your killing days are over. You over the hill do goodest son of a bitch. I love Hitman. No matter what you do to them, you don't feel bad.

[44:03] Nik Walker: Right.

[44:04] James Monroe Iglehart: But there's a moment in it that is so it it bothered me to my soul. It bothers me to this day, but it is also still one of the best moments in the film. And I know that Nik is going to agree with me. It is uh the moment where Lucille says he made me watch. Son of a bitch. Keep smiling that damn smile. Made me watch. Suck the meat off my fingers. He made me walk. He made me walk.

[44:41] Nik Walker: Oh god.

[44:42] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah, Carla Gugino is going in. And I think the because if you don't, if you hadn't read the comic, which I did, but I wasn't ready. It's different when you can turn a page and you can put the book down.

[44:55] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[44:55] James Monroe Iglehart: But when you're watching it and it's happening and she's talking, not like it's normal. You know she's hysterical, you just don't know why. And when she finally says it, you're just like, oh my God. Oh my God. And you just know you're like, okay, this guy has to die. I don't know how. And even then, the book and the movie don't give you the satisfaction of the death you want because of how crazy Kevin is. You know what I mean?

[45:19] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[45:20] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah. It's just that that that story, but also just the way it was filmed, how big how Marv was. It was great. I loved every second of it. The other film I was gonna choose, like the the I had three films in mind. And what's funny is none of them were DC and Marvel because DC and Marvel do not do direct fake adaptations.

[45:39] Nik Walker: Yeah, they really don't.

[45:40] James Monroe Iglehart: They do based on. You know, yeah, like Ragnarok, which is a great story, is Ragnarok and it's also Planet Hulk together.

[45:50] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[45:50] James Monroe Iglehart: And then they then they took those two stories and made their own. Whereas, you know, Sin City, Watchmen and Kick Ass were the two other Watchmen and Kick Ass were the two other films I was thinking. Because Kick Ass is pretty, pretty close too. There's some things they had to change, which is why I like Sin City, because the only thing that were all the things that were really, really changed were like you said, were certain scenes and decisions by performers.

[46:01] Nik Walker: Yes.

[46:17] James Monroe Iglehart: So like almost all the ladies were like, I all the boobs are out on the comic, all the boobs are here. And Jessica Alba was like, Ma boobs are too expensive. Shut up. I'll kill you. And it's like that's I think that's you know, I I can't imagine what it's like to be a woman in these circumstances.

[46:34] Nik Walker: Exactly.

[46:35] James Monroe Iglehart: You're trying to make this film, but you also, you know, you look, nudity is is your prerogative. And if you want to do a nude scene, you do a nude scene. If you don't, you don't. But I really respect the women of these films for like being like, yo, here's where I draw the line, and if you want me, this is what you're getting. You know what I mean?

[46:51] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[46:52] James Monroe Iglehart: And what's funny is I didn't I didn't miss it. And I think what happens is when men make films, they assume that okay, we are we are men, and we are fan, we are fantasy creatures. Sometimes what you don't show us will make a man go, I must see this film 50,000 times. It's fair. So the fact that so the fact that they didn't show things was what was got what got a lot of guy fans, got a lot of women fans and said, Ah, she didn't do it. I think that's really cool. You know what I mean?

[47:22] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[47:22] James Monroe Iglehart: But I mean, I think that was the one thing, you know, that was different. But you mostly you could take the book, kind of like 300, too you could take the book that was the other one I thought about too but Sin Cities was what I what was like you know solidified on which I think is awesome that you did Nik and the minute you said the film I was going I was like God dog it he's gonna fix Sin City oh yeah there's no other you could look at you could look at the pages and look at the film and go there it is there it is there it is and the only thing is like like a storyboard you know the comic is stationary films have to move and that's I think that's why I think it's the most faithful because all the pictures from the comic are there and then you have to put those other pictures in to make the film move and that's what I that's what I love about this film.

[48:07] Nik Walker: Yeah so I think that could that can lead us into mine because mine's a vastly different choice from from any of the stuff we've talked about but I picked it because it it does the same the thing right where I'm reading I I hadn't read it before I actually went it was free with Amazon Prime and I read the first volume and then I watched the movie which I had seen before and I was wondering while I was reading it how can this translate right you're thinking like like the story it's one guy sitting alone writing a story getting it drawn it it's such a personal product and a movie is such a collaborative big thing that includes performances that you you wouldn't have that control over it includes music.

[48:45] James Monroe Iglehart: It includes the cinematized like that there's so many elements um and and the one that I picked I really was like it's it's amazing to me that this story could even become a movie that someone had the balls to do it in the first place because it's not, it's there's no blood and guts, there's no you know, naked women, there's no big spaceships, and it's very personal to to the author, right? It tells the author's story, even maybe not directly, but like it's it's about him.

[49:16] Nik Walker: So yeah, so it starts out uh with just a bunch of uh early 20 something sitting at a table talking about how their one friend just started dating uh high schooler. Ha! Ha! Nice! Yes! Well done. I like oh, you're right. You're so right.

[49:37] James Monroe Iglehart: Not so long ago in the mysterious land of Toronto, Canada, Scott Pilgrim was dating a high schooler.

[49:48] Nik Walker: I love that film. God dog it's Scott Pilgrim.

[49:50] James Monroe Iglehart: So I you know, I it was interesting. The first I read the first volume, I'd never read it before, and then I turned the movie on, and for the first like 10-15 minutes, I was like, uh, this is this is a wonky choice. Like, this is I I don't know if I'm gonna be able to back this up. It's not quite what I remember, and all that. By the time I got to the end of the movie, by the time that the actual like emotional arc had had a chance to take place, I was I was in it. I was like, wow, like this really like the whole movie is addressing this kind of like everyone's first decade of relationship experience, right? And how to manage uh the person you're potentially interested in, like how to reconcile their past with your past, what to do in the present, what's kind of important moving forward, all these things that are like they're not comic book ideas, yes, but they're presented in a way that is relatable.

[50:41] Nik Walker: Uh, and and I think that this by the end, it's it's kind of incredible that it worked, that it did it. Um, for for those who don't know, Scott Pilgrim versus the World. Uh, the story is basically this this guy meets the woman of his dreams, and what happens is he it ends up that he has to fight her ex-boyfriends. You know, it's presented in big comic book form. Each of her evil ex-boyfriends comes and and you know, he has to defeat them, which it's all basically a metaphor for like you have to get through your partner's baggage. And if the person on the other end of that is still someone you want to be with, then that's a that's the right thing. And it which is which is, you know, again, it's that's not a Marvel idea. No, what's that's not a Sin City idea?

[51:23] James Monroe Iglehart: I think what's really fun about that film is that the comic book, like you said, you know, has these fights and they look like video games, but then in the film, they were able to give it that extra, you know, those sound effects of video games. It was uh the but the oh from the page to the film was just so well.

[51:44] Nik Walker: Yeah, and it was interesting to see how they did it.

[51:46] James Monroe Iglehart: And and like I was saying before, like I'm surprised that a studio had the nuts to do it because it's not an obvious, it's it's it has to be very stylized, right? It transitions very seamlessly from being a uh a regular like a really regular kind of almost indie movie about teenage angst.

[52:05] Nik Walker: What is it, Scott?

[52:06] James Monroe Iglehart: I had this totally weird dream.

[52:08] Nik Walker: Girl.

[52:10] James Monroe Iglehart: Was this an envy-related dream?

[52:12] Nik Walker: We don't use the E word in this house.

[52:14] James Monroe Iglehart: No, it wasn't her, it was somebody new. And then suddenly there's like giant cartoony fights.

[52:25] Nik Walker: And then they're back to reality, and then it's a dream sequence, and then it's back to reality, and then it it jumps all over, and it's not super obvious.

[52:32] James Monroe Iglehart: And in the comic, it's not super obvious how that would translate because it's all very simple cartoony, a lot of solid colors, a lot of you know, the visual style, they didn't try to replicate the visual style, but they kept the transitions, they kept the kind of meta, you know, fourth dimensional stuff. They kept all the extra tidbits that make it flow in the comic, and they translated to the screen in a in a way that that's impressive.

[52:56] Nik Walker: You know, it's amazing filmmaking.

[52:58] James Monroe Iglehart: It's interesting, it's interesting because I I love Scott Pilgrim, and it's it's one of those movies that you watch and and is and is so much fun. But it's also interesting, like, first of all, I think in terms of a studio signing off in it, I don't think I mean, obviously, this movie does not get made without Edgar Wright as the director.

[53:15] Nik Walker: And and you know, this man, if you have not seen his movies, I mean, he is kind of a genius, um, and he was the perfect director to put this on screen because his style already is one that is just so in tune with pop culture and um and and really making movies have a rhythm and uh and uh and sounds like he it his the sounds of his movies are really uh powerful and and awesome.

[53:41] James Monroe Iglehart: Um and that goes through through all of his movies.

[53:44] Nik Walker: Um Shawn of the Dead and Baby Driver.

[53:44] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah, is you know, is most obvious. Um But it also, you know, I think I think the thing that has always the thing that the one common theme that I'm seeing here with with comic book movies, and this this might just be where my head's at, is like you know, how well they age. Because Scott Pilgrim, one of the things that I, you know, I was thinking uh as you were talking, Alex, I was like, yes, it is absolutely a look at like looking at your partner's baggage and see and and if you can if you can still deal with your partner's baggage at the end of the day, like you can you'd be in that relationship.

[54:20] Nik Walker: But that is a it's it's it's that story from a very singular perspective, because really she's like if you look at if you look at what happens to them plot-wise in the movie, like the original ending of that movie was that he ended up with knives.

[54:35] James Monroe Iglehart: Yes, right?

[54:36] Nik Walker: Yes and and then they then they changed it to to be that he would get his, you know, because uh uh she's kind of playing, you know, it's it's uh the term now I think is man that manic pixie dream girl, right? And she's kind of playing that.

[54:48] James Monroe Iglehart: And so we we changed the movie so that he ends up as manic pixie dream girl, but like she it really is not a good relationship. Like there's nothing.

[54:57] Nik Walker: And that's what's realistic about it.

[54:57] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah, you know, it it felt very much like a relationship that a 22-year-old would have.

[55:03] Nik Walker: Yes, yes, yes. It's that moment like you you meet you meet her and you go through all of your crap and you go, Oh, now I know what I don't want. Let me go find someone who is really cool and can do with my baggage, but not so much baggage I have to fight it every day.

[55:19] James Monroe Iglehart: I should thank you though.

[55:21] Nik Walker: For what for being the nicest guy I ever dated.

[55:29] James Monroe Iglehart: It's kind of sad.

[55:33] Nik Walker: It is kind of sad. What I love about that story, like what I love about that that approach is that at that age, when you think that you found the one or whatever, it's it's really a combination of stuff, what your idea of that is, right? That's built on movies, that's built on video games, that's built on you've been told over and over again what you know when you see her at the party and the lights go off, and it's just like everything changes.

[55:55] James Monroe Iglehart: And I feel like a lot of people get into these positions where they are using that energy, that emotional energy that that's built for drama to run their lives. And the whole movie uses, you know, all the the stuff that he's basically a fanboy of and all this, like to put him through this relationship.

[56:12] Nik Walker: I think the most interesting relationship in the film is him and the drummer of their band.

[56:16] James Monroe Iglehart: Yes.

[56:17] Nik Walker: They only allude to a couple times, dated in high school, and he basically dumped her. And then he the only way he describes it in the film is that, oh, well, it's it's not really a big thing. It doesn't really matter. And the whole movie, she's staring him down, she's miserable. You can tell she's got a whole vortex of stuff going on that he ignores until the very there's like one line, like, I'm sorry. And then he moves on.

[56:37] James Monroe Iglehart: Um, and I think that that really explains like what you're saying about a singular vision. Uh it really explains, you know, uh, a 22-year-old male's approach to the relationship. Which is he's literally looking at the world with tunnel vision. He's not looking, he's only looking forward, he's not looking at the side, and it takes him forever to finally look backwards and go, oh shit, there is a wake of crap that I have gone through that I didn't even look that people were, you know, being swept up. Other people are being swept up in this, and I only see what I'm doing. Or at least I only see what I my what I want. And when he finally looks back, you know, she's there. It's it's really funny to look at her because you can look at that character and go, boy, if they would let her talk.

[57:18] Nik Walker: Yeah, there'd be so you know, if they would let her talk, it'd be a whole different movie. And that's I think what when it whenever I see him end up with her uh with uh with uh Mary Elizabeth Winstead's character, I'm always like, I wish that this was recontextualized because it's like I mean, ever he just gets off so scot-free.

[57:34] James Monroe Iglehart: He does really does. Terrible, and like that's that's the part where I'm like, oh, this is this is a uh a young young boy's fantasy. Because it's like you could not do that shit and get like you can't get away with like you're a dick.

[57:49] Nik Walker: You're a dick.

[57:49] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah.

[57:50] Nik Walker: Which is why I feel like it's it it's the author's story. Like, like when I start reading it and I see all this stuff, I'm like, oh, like this is just this is just some like uh introverted comic book author trying to work through his stuff, and and he never really finds the point that he's even digging for.

[58:06] James Monroe Iglehart: Not that we don't love in introverted comic book authors, because not that we don't love introverted comic book artists. Pretty much three of them on this podcast.

[58:12] Nik Walker: I think what's I think what's totally true. I think what's up, uh what's fun about it is I think I don't I I think the author, at least in my opinion, um, was probably writing what he felt at that time, and that's why that I think it's easy to go back. I think what's funny is I like to tell people that most people in the world, especially men, uh grow old, they never grow up. And there's a moment where when you do grow up, you can look back. If you're if you're smart and if you're self-aware, you could look back and tell a whole story from that not grown up from that immature you, and then but you end it because that's makes a good movie. That makes a comic book. Because um, I I think it was Orson Wells says, you know, you get a happy ending, all depends on where you end the story.

[59:00] James Monroe Iglehart: Yes, you know, all depends on where you're in the story, is where the happy ending is because you could continue Scott and him growing up, and you go, oh God, he went through a bunch. He had to pay taxes, I gotta buy a house, had to get a mortgage, and all that kind of stuff. But where they ended it, you know, is where a 22-year-old would want to see it.

[59:15] Nik Walker: Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm I I'm pretty sure that they get they let her, they let him end up with her because that was the Hollywood ending.

[59:25] James Monroe Iglehart: Yes, that's absolutely like a little shop of horrors thing. It's like, you know, they did the test move, they did the test movie where Audrey 2 eats everybody and the audience wait, no, that's not fair. We've watched him get a few things. Then she came. And then so now we're like, oh, well, he has to end up with her because he's been fighting for an hour, 30 minutes for this girl. So he's got to end up with her. Whereas in a comic book, you don't have to do that.

[59:45] Nik Walker: I would say, like, it definitely leaves you with a bad taste in your mouth.

[59:49] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah.

[59:49] Nik Walker: Um, you feel weird. The positive thing I will say about how they shifted the ending at the last minute, is it gives you a sense that he hasn't broken his cycle, right? That this whole, like, yeah, his whole life's been, you know, getting excited and then dumping them for something new, and then getting excited and dumping them for something new. And you can tell that like he's still at the end, he's trying to decide between two, and he just kind of goes with one, and they watch, you know, and you know that a couple weeks later it's all gonna change again. Something else is gonna happen.

[1:00:15] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah, yeah.

[1:00:17] Nik Walker: On a positive note, no, go ahead, Nick.

[1:00:19] James Monroe Iglehart: Go ahead.

[1:00:19] Nik Walker: Oh no, no, go ahead.

[1:00:20] James Monroe Iglehart: Go ahead, man.

[1:00:21] Nik Walker: Uh no, go ahead. What were you gonna say?

[1:00:23] James Monroe Iglehart: That's so kind of you.

[1:00:24] Nik Walker: Thank you.

[1:00:25] James Monroe Iglehart: Thank you so much. I thought I'd give you one.

[1:00:28] Nik Walker: Just give me one, please.

[1:00:30] James Monroe Iglehart: Uh no, I think I I actually want to just shout out all I think that this movie also, if there was an award for best 10-minute pop-in appearances by between Chris Evans, between Brandon Routh, between and and let's talk. Here's the other one that I think is like the low-key best one of them all is Brie Larson.

[1:00:52] Nik Walker: Yes, come on.

[1:00:54] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah, she comes in, she has maybe 10 minutes of screen time.

[1:00:58] Nik Walker: Yeah, and it's like it's mesmerizing.

[1:01:01] James Monroe Iglehart: So, how's the tour? You guys play with the pixies? You're like a superstar now.

[1:01:04] Nik Walker: Yeah, it's uh not really something I can put into words.

[1:01:07] James Monroe Iglehart: She commands that film for 10 minutes, and you're like, This is before we even know who she was. It's like, who the hell are you? And like she sings that song, and you're like, oh shit, she can sing. And then she she like is just like a demon to him, and you're like, wow, you are fucking awesome.

[1:01:22] Nik Walker: Um, yeah, dude. It's just the some of the best fucking cameos in any movie I've seen. But also, it was, it was just so what's funny is I love the film because it's so much fun. There are moments where you get so caught up in the action of it.

[1:01:31] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah.

[1:01:36] Nik Walker: And the fun of it that you do forget that Scott is a dick.

[1:01:39] James Monroe Iglehart: You can't you forget that he's a 22 23 year old kid.

[1:01:44] Nik Walker: Right. You know, which is perfect cat tattoo. I mean, oh you're like, you forget that like, oh my god, the decisions you're making are horrible. But you get so caught up, you know, in these fights, in the fact that, you know, people turn into coins, and the fact that her exes just keep coming back stronger and stronger. It's like, it was the great it's to me, it's the greatest video game. It's one of the greatest video game movies ever made.

[1:02:06] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah, it true, truly is. And it's you know, and again, uh all love to Edgar Wright, who was who's at the time was penning his um, I'm looking at the at the wiki Wikipedia page. At the time, he was he was working on uh Ant Man.

[1:02:20] Nik Walker: Oh that's awesome.

[1:02:21] James Monroe Iglehart: Like he was he he stopped working on his Ant Man streamplay to do Scott Pilgrim and then went back to it. Um, you know, which just shows you just shows you how how long these movies gestate for.

[1:02:32] Nik Walker: Yeah, you know, yeah. Really crazy.

[1:02:34] James Monroe Iglehart: Really crazy. Confused man children, that's his uh his foretish.

[1:02:38] Nik Walker: Oh, yeah. Perfect.

[1:02:39] James Monroe Iglehart: It's literally Yeah, because when you look at when you look at Hot Fuzz, when you look at Sean of the Dead, right? You're like it's all just man children, stupid men making stupid mistakes.

[1:02:48] Nik Walker: Like, I mean, and not that is also baby driver.

[1:02:51] James Monroe Iglehart: Uh yeah, that is yep, there you go.

[1:02:54] Nik Walker: I had a good time with that movie.

[1:02:56] James Monroe Iglehart: Oh, scrutic. It's a classic. As much as as much as like half the cast is now, you know, in jail or headed to jail.

[1:03:04] Nik Walker: Stop it.

[1:03:04] James Monroe Iglehart: Stop!

[1:03:05] Nik Walker: I'm just being look, dude.

[1:03:07] James Monroe Iglehart: Dude, I'm just being so real.

[1:03:09] Nik Walker: Like, ah, ah, oh, damn, damn.

[1:03:12] James Monroe Iglehart: Oh, god damn it, guys. Just just be just be smart.

[1:03:16] Nik Walker: Just don't hurt.

[1:03:17] James Monroe Iglehart: How about this? Just don't hurt people.

[1:03:19] Nik Walker: Just don't hurt people.

[1:03:21] James Monroe Iglehart: Like you can. Oh, I'm looking at all this now. I hadn't heard of any of this. I'll let people do their own research.

[1:03:27] Nik Walker: Yeah, it sounds like Edgar Wright needs to make a new movie.

[1:03:31] James Monroe Iglehart: Here's what I will say, James. Uh, you know, as as we wrap this up, I just want to say, uh, I I I bow down. I bow down to to a formidable opponent. I'll be I'll be coming for my uh I I feel like I should be paying you tuition or something.

[1:03:47] Nik Walker: Ladies and gentlemen, now remember what I said at the beginning. I said, Nick is the hero. Remember?

[1:03:55] James Monroe Iglehart: Nick is the Luke Skywalker. Nick is the butters. Nick is the hero.

[1:04:00] Nik Walker: I am never gonna live that that butter's thing. I've never been.

[1:04:03] James Monroe Iglehart: Now, ladies and gentlemen, on this episode, Alex, what episode number is this? Is eight, nine? Something.

[1:04:09] Nik Walker: Uh it depends when we yeah. Whenever this is released, whatever number, whatever number this is, remember this, ladies and gentlemen, what James Monroe Iglehart is saying. I, in my relationship with Nick, have set myself up as friend, big brother, mentor, and villain.

[1:04:28] Nik Walker: Villain.

[1:04:29] James Monroe Iglehart: What happens to the villain at the end?

[1:04:32] Nik Walker: Oh, stop.

[1:04:33] James Monroe Iglehart: So Nick is bowing down now. So we'll call this Empire Strikes Back.

[1:04:39] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[1:04:40] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah. Because we all know Nick is gonna rise from the ashes like a Phoenix with some purple ass or minty lightsaber that he has with him, some machete gun, whatever, some black cool jacket with some sunglasses with his beard trimmed down, looking all smooth, and I will end up going down in one of his films or plays, looking like the biggest idiot in the world. Now, I'll probably win an award for it because I'm great. But Nick will come out smelling like a rose because Nick is a hero.

[1:05:03] Nik Walker: I hate this.

[1:05:14] James Monroe Iglehart: I hate this. Listen. He can't even bow down. He's like, I bow down. Like some villain.

[1:05:20] Nik Walker: Shut up. You're gonna go get a trainer, train yourself, come back, and I'll think I'll I'll look at you and say something stupid like you should have never come back, or some whack ass Hollywood line, and then end up getting my hand cut off and going, I'm sorry, Nick. You're so great.

[1:05:33] James Monroe Iglehart: Oh god. This is but I will get a book out of it because I'm that good.

[1:05:39] Nik Walker: This is gonna go on forever.

[1:05:41] James Monroe Iglehart: This is gonna go on forever. I can't do this anymore.

[1:05:44] Nik Walker: I can't do this.

[1:05:46] James Monroe Iglehart: Ladies and gentlemen, we just want to thank you for being here for a little podcast, little justice to podcast with Alex and Nick. I am James. It's been great for you to listen to the wonderful uh saga that we had today about, you know, just comic books, the the main how do they become what they are to film and the the one the the the greatest moments of them being what's the most realistic, what's the best ones, you know? And you we talked about Scott Pilgrim, we talked about Sin City, and we also saw how great Nik Walker's mind works because he thought the same movie as me, which also gives him the credit, which lets you know that the hero is going to come back because obviously he's smart enough to think about what the master thinks.

[1:06:23] Nik Walker: So, ladies and gentlemen, we just want to thank you for being with this podcast, and hopefully you'll come back on the next time to hear these two young brothers talk about something else that is special on this great show.

[1:06:33] James Monroe Iglehart: Oh, I've been hijacked.

[1:06:38] Nik Walker: We're done.

[1:06:38] James Monroe Iglehart: James, how do you feel about just replacing?

[1:06:41] Nik Walker: Never, never, never, never.

[1:06:43] James Monroe Iglehart: You're the new Nik Walker.

[1:06:44] Nik Walker: Yes, I do.

[1:06:45] James Monroe Iglehart: We want to give it up to our great director and editor, Alex. He is awesome. Want to give it up to our great host and the man who brought me here, Nik Walker. We also want to give it up to the great guest, Mr. Tony Award winning TV star, movie coming out, and also comic book writer himself for Marvel Comics, Mr. James Murrayhart. It's going to be great. You're going to love what you see. And if you like what you've heard today, please go back and listen to some of the other past episodes because you will get to see the relationship build between Nick and Alex over the time they've had a talking over great movies, talking over great stories, and a great relationship that they've had for many, many years.

I'll probably be back, maybe a couple episodes away. You don't want to, you know, spruce it up with just me all the time. But thank you, thank you, thank you for listening. Also, if you're listening, we are on broadcast, we are on the Broadway Podcast Network, and we are on anywhere that uh podcasts are, whether you're listening on Apple or where there's a Spotify or anywhere you can find your podcast, you will hear this great, great show. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. You are amazing. And please come back and check out Little Justice the Podcast.

[1:07:36] James Monroe Iglehart: Little Just Death. Little Just Ed. Little Justin. Fuck yeah.